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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 88, William & Mary 67 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-23-2016, 08:06 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

DBFAN
11-23-2016, 08:07 PM
Cory Alexander is getting close Len Elmore territory

TKG
11-23-2016, 08:09 PM
Listless.

OldPhiKap
11-23-2016, 08:09 PM
Cory Alexander is getting close Len Elmore territory

I though Cory did a good job, and usually does.

I'll say what I seem to say every game. Amile is a man. Points as the only big man, rebounds, leadership.

Matt with a very strong game as well.

Other than that, this is a tired team deserving of a break.

Glad to see Tatum in uniform with warm-up jacket off most of the game, even if not in.

NashvilleDevil
11-23-2016, 08:10 PM
Cory Alexander is getting close Len Elmore territory

Mute button has been my friend for the last decade when watching Duke. Commentators add zero to my enjoyment or knowledge of the game.

Tripping William
11-23-2016, 08:11 PM
A workmanlike win. Nothing spectacular; nothing glaringly terrible.

MChambers
11-23-2016, 08:14 PM
I though Cory did a good job, and usually does.

I'll say what I seem to say every game. Amile is a man. Points as the only big man, rebounds, leadership.

Matt with a very strong game as well.

Other than that, this is a tired team deserving of a break.

Glad to see Tatum in uniform with warm-up jacket off most of the game, even if not in.

My ESPN app reported that Tatum assisted on a basket in the second half. I was momentarily excited.

duke4ever19
11-23-2016, 08:17 PM
I though Cory did a good job, and usually does.

I'll say what I seem to say every game. Amile is a man. Points as the only big man, rebounds, leadership.

Matt with a very strong game as well.

Other than that, this is a tired team deserving of a break.

Glad to see Tatum in uniform with warm-up jacket off most of the game, even if not in.

Alexander put up a good fight, but alas, my mute button was ultimately victorious.

tbyers11
11-23-2016, 08:35 PM
I though Cory did a good job, and usually does.

I'll say what I seem to say every game. Amile is a man. Points as the only big man, rebounds, leadership.

Matt with a very strong game as well.

Other than that, this is a tired team deserving of a break.

Glad to see Tatum in uniform with warm-up jacket off most of the game, even if not in.

Gotta disagree on Cory Alexander. He repeatedly tried to stir the pot b/c his boys (did you know he coached Harry Giles and Jayson Tatum in HS) are alpha dogs and aren't going to take a back seat to anybody therefore there will be chemistry issues when they return. It is one thing to suggest it as a possibility but to repeatedly state it as a near-certainty before finally backing off and saying it wouldn't necessarily happen the third time he brought it up was annoying. His example of 1994 UNC forgot to mention that Wallace, Steakhouse, and McInnis while supremely talented were a mixture of immature, me-first head cases. Where was the more recent example of 2015 Duke? Quinn and Tyus got along pretty well.

The Ohio State/Michigan football debate as filler didn't bother me too much ( I'm used to Vitale) but he looked uninformed next to his colleague on that subject as well.

Arguing a point to be contrarian with 100% near-certainty is sadly a staple of modern sports dialogue, but repeating it ad nauseum IMO shows a lack of preparation or an axe to grind.

----------
Back to the game. We are still a tired, hurting team. Kennard was money in the first half. Grayson showed some old man type moves (due to his injury-related lack of athleticism) after a slow start. Amile was very solid again. I thought Vrank and Javin both had a couple of good minutes in the first half. I liked to see that.

Our biggest problem to me was transition D. We were downright awful on several occasions. Hopefully as we get more, fresher bodies and more practice time we can improve in that area

DukieInBrasil
11-23-2016, 08:39 PM
Super happy to see that Grayson was able to play a solid game. Hopefully his toe issue is fading away. Kennard didn't shoot so well today, but he & Grayson each had 6 assists and 2 turns, which is solid guard play. Add in 8 boards for Luke and that's quite a game.
Amile, 3 strait 2x doubles. Playin' like a man.
Javin is this year's Chase Jeter from last year. He just needs the game to slow down for him, which has apparently happened for Chase. Chase is looking like he'll be a solid reserve for when the 3 Fr. come back.
Vrank the Tank keeps turning in good performances when given the chance.

DBFAN
11-23-2016, 08:46 PM
So K said in post game, that Giles was closest to being ready. Not sure if that is a good thing or not

Kjeffrey
11-23-2016, 08:53 PM
Gotta disagree on Cory Alexander. He repeatedly tried to stir the pot b/c his boys (did you know he coached Harry Giles and Jayson Tatum in HS) are alpha dogs and aren't going to take a back seat to anybody therefore there will be chemistry issues when they return. It is one thing to suggest it as a possibility but to repeatedly state it as a near-certainty before finally backing off and saying it wouldn't necessarily happen the third time he brought it up was annoying. His example of 1994 UNC forgot to mention that Wallace, Steakhouse, and McInnis while supremely talented were a mixture of immature, me-first head cases. Where was the more recent example of 2015 Duke? Quinn and Tyus got along pretty well.

The Ohio State/Michigan football debate as filler didn't bother me too much ( I'm used to Vitale) but he looked uninformed next to his colleague on that subject as well.

Arguing a point to be contrarian with 100% near-certainty is sadly a staple of modern sports dialogue, but repeating it ad nauseum IMO shows a lack of preparation or an axe to grind.

----------
Back to the game. We are still a tired, hurting team. Kennard was money in the first half. Grayson showed some old man type moves (due to his injury-related lack of athleticism) after a slow start. Amile was very solid again. I thought Vrank and Javin both had a couple of good minutes in the first half. I liked to see that.

Our biggest problem to me was transition D. We were downright awful on several occasions. Hopefully as we get more, fresher bodies and more practice time we can improve in that area

I completely agree with you as it certainly seemed like Cory Alexander has a problem with Duke. While the game was close he talked about how tired Duke was, how Grayson is not himself and more (including the Carolina comment). Then when Duke pulled away he constantly talked about the chemistry issues that will come when the injured players return. Saying any of that once would have been fine but he more than beat a dead horse.

gurufrisbee
11-23-2016, 08:56 PM
I love muting the TV. Years ago I realized that I gained almost nothing positive from hearing them and generally spent a lot of time being annoyed at how much they were factually wrong about what was happening and annoyingly inaccurate about their opinions.

I did find myself slightly curious when they bothered to show Cory's Ideal Line Up and neither Amile nor Luke - whom most people would probably say have been our two best players this season so far - were in it.

WillJ
11-23-2016, 09:03 PM
I like Cory Alexander, though he's usually more focused than he was tonight. But it's tough when it's a blowout, so I'd give him some slack.
His analysis of Harry Giles was interesting to me - I knew he was good, but I had never hear anyone knowledgeable say "better than Chris Webber" good.

subzero02
11-23-2016, 09:03 PM
So K said in post game, that Giles was closest to being ready. Not sure if that is a good thing or not

Wow, that is not what most have been saying/predicting. Since Giles has been a participant in warmups, I can put a positive spin on this news... maybe. I think most were expecting to see Tatum play first. If he did encounter a setback in his return to practice, hopefully he'll recover from it soon.

GTHC,GTH... badgers

tbyers11
11-23-2016, 09:07 PM
So K said in post game, that Giles was closest to being ready. Not sure if that is a good thing or not

Agree on the uncertainty. If it means Harry plays Saturday and Tatum and Bolden play against Michigan St I'm fine with that.

However, it is more likely than Harry is right about in the timeline (first week of Dec) that has been projected since shortly after his arthroscopic procedure and that Tatum and Bolden are still more indefinite.

devildeac
11-23-2016, 09:19 PM
My ESPN app reported that Tatum assisted on a basket in the second half. I was momentarily excited.

My 10-12 second early radio feed had Bolden ready to check in at the scorer's table but I got Bob Harris'ed again. :o

DBFAN
11-23-2016, 09:26 PM
Agree on the uncertainty. If it means Harry plays Saturday and Tatum and Bolden play against Michigan St I'm fine with that.

However, it is more likely than Harry is right about in the timeline (first week of Dec) that has been projected since shortly after his arthroscopic procedure and that Tatum and Bolden are still more indefinite.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Just don't really understand how K can say last week that he was looking to next week for Tatum and Bolden. Of course I do need to acknowledge that K said The order of them being ready was Giles Bolden Tatum. At some point it would be nice if they would just be honest and say hey it's gonna be another month or at least be definitive on what the injuries were, instead of the lower leg injury and foot injury. I get that he also has to protect their Career concerns, but I've grown weary of this way of handling it.

Duke76
11-23-2016, 09:33 PM
Super happy to see that Grayson was able to play a solid game. Hopefully his toe issue is fading away. Kennard didn't shoot so well today, but he & Grayson each had 6 assists and 2 turns, which is solid guard play. Add in 8 boards for Luke and that's quite a game.
Amile, 3 strait 2x doubles. Playin' like a man.
Javin is this year's Chase Jeter from last year. He just needs the game to slow down for him, which has apparently happened for Chase. Chase is looking like he'll be a solid reserve for when the 3 Fr. come back.
Vrank the Tank keeps turning in good performances when given the chance.


need to look at Grayson's jump shot prior to toe injury and last year to now...he is shooting essentially a set shot getting very little lift and a result completely different balance, rhythm, connection with his shot...tough adjustment to make, don't know how his toe or whatever the injury is, heals while he is playing

as far as the freshmen 3..it sure would be nice to have a little more info on the injuries, Tatum and Bolden especially, Giles is gonna be back before them is a real puzzle as I just assumed Tatum and Bolden had minor leg injuries. if they are in warm ups for last 2 games how serious can the injuries be at this point

DBFAN
11-23-2016, 09:37 PM
need to look at Grayson's jump shot prior to toe injury and last year to now...he is shooting essentially a set shot getting very little lift and a result completely different balance, rhythm, connection with his shot...tough adjustment to make, don't know how his toe or whatever the injury is, heals while he is playing

as far as the freshmen 3..it sure would be nice to have a little more info on the injuries, Tatum and Bolden especially, Giles is gonna be back before them is a real puzzle as I just assumed Tatum and Bolden had minor leg injuries. if they are in warm ups for last 2 games how serious can the injuries be at this point

I agree but I think there is some uncertainty as to whether Tatum actually warmed up. Giles and Bolden did and Tatum was out there in uniform as well, but not sure if he actually did anything physical

Dukeford
11-23-2016, 09:52 PM
Cory Alexander is getting close Len Elmore territory

Yes, his tidbits of wisdom were annoying........

"Jefferson wouldn't be a starter if the freshman weren't injured"
"Kennard will be a role player when the freshman start playing"
"one school of thought is that Giles should just sit out the whole year"
and "Chase Jeter is 6'9""

fuse
11-23-2016, 10:00 PM
Was gifted a ticket that came with Champions Club access.

Have to say end to end it was an amazing experience.

jimmymax
11-23-2016, 10:08 PM
Giles and Bolden did layup line and shoot-around. Tatum and Obi watched. Free throw shooting was good tonight!

Reilly
11-23-2016, 10:11 PM
My 10-12 second early radio feed had Bolden ready to check in at the scorer's table but I got Bob Harris'ed again. :o

After Bob retires, you won't get fooled again ....

CY_devil
11-23-2016, 10:34 PM
Giles and Bolden did layup line and shoot-around. Tatum and Obi watched. Free throw shooting was good tonight!

According to C.L. Brown of ESPN: "Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said he allowed injured players Marques Bolden, Harry Giles & Jayson Tatum to participate in warmups vs William & Mary to begin the mental transition back to playing. Krzyzewski still doesn't when they will make their season debut: "There is light at the end of the tunnel, we just don't know how long the tunnel is, but I think days like today help."

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0593279192519414042-4

Please let that tunnel be really really short!

cy

Furniture
11-23-2016, 10:48 PM
I like Cory Alexander, though he's usually more focused than he was tonight. But it's tough when it's a blowout, so I'd give him some slack.
His analysis of Harry Giles was interesting to me - I knew he was good, but I had never hear anyone knowledgeable say "better than Chris Webber" good.

I agree about giving some slack. Solid game by the team so the story line is always going to be about our injured superstars. Patience was indeed required. Gobble gobble...happy Thanksgiving.

Rich
11-23-2016, 10:58 PM
"one school of thought is that Giles should just sit out the whole year"

I believe that school of thought was actually initiated by our very own Jason Williams

gurufrisbee
11-23-2016, 10:59 PM
CL Brown is twice as bad as Cory Alexander.

But rather than get bogged down in the non-Duke players I do find it encouraging the more we get to see Vrank, DeLaurier, and White. Sure, a line up with those three starting isn't getting us to the Final Four this year, but I like their contributions and development and see them as definite positive pieces in the right role this year and in even bigger roles in the future.

tbyers11
11-23-2016, 11:18 PM
I believe that school of thought was actually initiated by our very own Jason Williams

I'm pretty sure that school of thought was around long before Jason Williams spoke about a couple of weeks ago. He just happened to espouse it on ESPN.

Thankfully, Harry himself doesn't appear to have enrolled at that school

Durham Blue Devil
11-23-2016, 11:30 PM
According to C.L. Brown of ESPN: "Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said he allowed injured players Marques Bolden, Harry Giles & Jayson Tatum to participate in warmups vs William & Mary to begin the mental transition back to playing. Krzyzewski still doesn't when they will make their season debut: "There is light at the end of the tunnel, we just don't know how long the tunnel is, but I think days like today help."

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0593279192519414042-4

Please let that tunnel be really really short!

cy

Driving to the game listening to the pregame radio broadcast, Coach K said that "Jason" was the furthest from being able to play. I assumed perhaps he misspoke and meant Giles since prior reports had Tatum as the first one back in fairly short order. When I arrived at the game, Tatum was the only one of the three not warming up at all. Something must have transpired that has set Tatum back significantly. I have maintained optimism all along but thus was a troubling development.

Newton_14
11-23-2016, 11:47 PM
So K said in post game, that Giles was closest to being ready. Not sure if that is a good thing or not
I got a chance to talk to Giles after the game. I said "I thought watching warm ups you might play tonight". His response "So did I". So looks like he is ready. He moved and jumped well during warm ups. We saw Tatum after the game too and he was in the protective boot which makes sense as they use those boots often for players with foot issues even when they are actually playing in games, they wear boots afterwards. (Grayson was in sneakers after the game). Tatum told us he is close. I thought Chase looked like that ankle is still limiting his explosiveness as well. He still played fine though. I just hope we get healed up as a team soon so these guys can show the world how good they can be at full strength. And unlike Corey, I don't think integrating the super frosh with the veterans is going to be an issue at all. I think these guys all love each other and are going to mesh together as a team just fine.

So don't fret fellow Blue Devil fans. After what we saw tonight, I think all 3 injured frosh are going to be back soon, like before Christmas soon.

On to the game. I thought Grayson had an excellent all-around game despite a slow start from 3 Point Land. He would have had 9 or 10 assists had his teammates made a few more shots off good passes from him. He distributed the ball really well tonight in addition to getting his points. He also moved much better than he did on Sunday. Amile was really good as well. It was just a very solid, methodical performance against a good William & Mary team. They have some good players and are very well coached.

Vrank continues to play well when he gets minutes. After his solid first half I was somewhat surprised he did not get in earlier in the 2nd Half. The only negative really was that Jackson messed up on defensive assignments like 4 times in a very short period of time there in the 2nd half. Which no biggie, he will learn from it. We expect too much from freshmen sometimes even in this era. The kid can score though. I am also a member of the Javin fan club. I can't wait for the day the light comes on for him because I think he is going to wow us when that day comes.

All in all a great night in Cameron, and solid performance from our guys even though they are short handed and the core guys are logging crazy amounts of minutes.

Go Duke!!

Newton_14
11-23-2016, 11:54 PM
Driving to the game listening to the pregame radio broadcast, Coach K said that "Jason" was the furthest from being able to play. I assumed perhaps he misspoke and meant Giles since prior reports had Tatum as the first one back in fairly short order. When I arrived at the game, Tatum was the only one of the three not warming up at all. Something must have transpired that has set Tatum back significantly. I have maintained optimism all along but thus was a troubling development.

I mentioned this in the pregame thread but will share here as well.... We got there at 6, and Tatum was in uniform, and participating in the early shoot around and drills. He looked good out there. When they went back to the locker room and then came out for official pre-game warmups, Giles and Bolden participated fully, but Tatum stood on the baseline. He remained in his uniform though. Giles and Bolden did everything except check into the game and play. Will be sweet if both get into the game on Saturday in prep for Mich St next week!

SlapTheFloor
11-24-2016, 12:00 AM
Coach K mentioned in the post game press conference that Giles still hasn't practiced with contact. Seems like that would be a prerequisite before actually playing in a game. I doubt, at this point, that we will see any of the three against Sparty.

brevity
11-24-2016, 12:38 AM
Gotta disagree on Cory Alexander. He repeatedly tried to stir the pot b/c his boys (did you know he coached Harry Giles and Jayson Tatum in HS) are alpha dogs and aren't going to take a back seat to anybody therefore there will be chemistry issues when they return. It is one thing to suggest it as a possibility but to repeatedly state it as a near-certainty before finally backing off and saying it wouldn't necessarily happen the third time he brought it up was annoying. His example of 1994 UNC forgot to mention that Wallace, Steakhouse, and McInnis while supremely talented were a mixture of immature, me-first head cases. Where was the more recent example of 2015 Duke? Quinn and Tyus got along pretty well.

Awesome autocorrect. I can't decide if I should make a "Did you mean Sean May, because you are what you eat?" joke or a "Did you mean PJ Hairston, back when he could pick the restaurant?" joke.

uh_no
11-24-2016, 02:22 AM
After Bob retires, you won't get fooled again ...

Who?

Saratoga2
11-24-2016, 06:29 AM
Like most of the other fans, I find it disconcerting that none of the three superfrosh injured players are playing in the fourth week of the season. Probably easier to understand with Giles with his knee cleanout. We never heard much about Bolden. I was guessing stress fracture but that doesn't sound right if he will soon play. Tatum with a foot sprain. How long would that last?

At any rate, back to the game. We did play both Chase and Grayson with injuries, so I guess all injuries are not as limiting, depending on the player. Chase looked good against inferior opponents and his recovery appears to be moving along well. Grayson is compensating for his lack of explosiveness with play making and scoring from set shots. He did have a good night. I assume it is a combination of an ankle injury and a toe injury for him with perhaps some additional soreness in his rib area where he took a shot a while back.

Amile is showing how valuable it is to have all the years of seasoning. He is a dependable scorer around the basket and our best rebounder and one of our best defenders. Great to have experienced guys to lead out there. I don't think of him as a center, and against good teams we will need him to play power forward with either one of our Frosh or Jeter/Vrank to fill the center role. Amile can act as a center if we need to go to the small lineup in matchup situations.

Matt had another excellent game. Another of our experienced guys out there who defends, can make catch and shoot plays from 3 and on occasion make plays around the basket. He really doesn't have the quickness or explosiveness to beat people off the drive on a regular basis.

While Luke had a decent game, I thought he grew pretty passive again. He has so many offensive skils that I would prefer to see him use them more often. His defense was okay last night but not great.

Frank is getting the needed experience for the ACC season. No doubt he is a great athlete and can score in a number of ways. Now the defense and playmaking need to be his work items.

I found it interesting to watch Jack White for the few minutes he got on the floor. Jack is a very aggressive player and he scored twice in those few minutes on aggressive moves. While he won't see a lot of time this year, he may well be needed a lot next, as we lose Matt, and probably Grayson. Both Luke and Frank may also draw some interest from the NBA.

Javin is a guy who will need some seasoning. He looks to be a very good athlete with a high motor. If he can avoid picking up fouls as such a high rate, he could help us. Again, maybe not this year, but definitely next.

Not our most impressive game but it was a good workout and a chance for guys to work through injuries and get more comfortable playing together.

Not one of our most impressive games, but a good one for healing up

devildeac
11-24-2016, 06:47 AM
After Bob retires, you won't get fooled again ...

Wrong thread.

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?38782-Favorite-All-Time-Great-Rock-Songs

;)

Indoor66
11-24-2016, 06:48 AM
Like most of the other fans, I find it disconcerting that none of the three superfrosh injured players are playing in the fourth week of the season. Probably easier to understand with Giles with his knee cleanout. We never heard much about Bolden. I was guessing stress fracture but that doesn't sound right if he will soon play. Tatum with a foot sprain. How long would that last?

At any rate, back to the game. We did play both Chase and Grayson with injuries, so I guess all injuries are not as limiting, depending on the player. Chase looked good against inferior opponents and his recovery appears to be moving along well. Grayson is compensating for his lack of explosiveness with play making and scoring from set shots. He did have a good night. I assume it is a combination of an ankle injury and a toe injury for him with perhaps some additional soreness in his rib area where he took a shot a while back.

Amile is showing how valuable it is to have all the years of seasoning. He is a dependable scorer around the basket and our best rebounder and one of our best defenders. Great to have experienced guys to lead out there. I don't think of him as a center, and against good teams we will need him to play power forward with either one of our Frosh or Jeter/Vrank to fill the center role. Amile can act as a center if we need to go to the small lineup in matchup situations.

Matt had another excellent game. Another of our experienced guys out there who defends, can make catch and shoot plays from 3 and on occasion make plays around the basket. He really doesn't have the quickness or explosiveness to beat people off the drive on a regular basis.

While Luke had a decent game, I thought he grew pretty passive again. He has so many offensive skils that I would prefer to see him use them more often. His defense was okay last night but not great.

Frank is getting the needed experience for the ACC season. No doubt he is a great athlete and can score in a number of ways. Now the defense and playmaking need to be his work items.

I found it interesting to watch Jack White for the few minutes he got on the floor. Jack is a very aggressive player and he scored twice in those few minutes on aggressive moves. While he won't see a lot of time this year, he may well be needed a lot next, as we lose Matt, and probably Grayson. Both Luke and Frank may also draw some interest from the NBA.

Javin is a guy who will need some seasoning. He looks to be a very good athlete with a high motor. If he can avoid picking up fouls as such a high rate, he could help us. Again, maybe not this year, but definitely next.

Not our most impressive game but it was a good workout and a chance for guys to work through injuries and get more comfortable playing together.

Not one of our most impressive games, but a good one for healing up

You sound a bit snarky and privileged here. Injuries are just that: injuries. Some heal quickly and some slowly. Some are of the nature that playing does not present danger of further injury, some do not. Even the best medical personnel cannot accurately predict healing duration. I think we have to accept that those with the injuries and those responsible for their care are doing all possible to get them healthy and ready to play.

slower
11-24-2016, 06:50 AM
Cory Alexander is getting close Len Elmore territory

Cory Alexander's main points of emphasis last night were to make sure everybody understands just how important and well-connected Cory Alexander is. Oh, and that "he" went 2-1 in Cameron. As if anybody besides his mama gives a crap. And even she's probably tired of hearing it.

And yes, he was relatively ill-informed. I'm always shocked at how little some of these guys really know about the teams they are covering.

Of course, he did play for UVA during the Laettner/Hurley/Hill glory years, so that probably still burns a little bit.

arnie
11-24-2016, 07:19 AM
You sound a bit snarky and privileged here. Injuries are just that: injuries. Some heal quickly and some slowly. Some are of the nature that playing does not present danger of further injury, some do not. Even the best medical personnel cannot accurately predict healing duration. I think we have to accept that those with the injuries and those responsible for their care are doing all possible to get them healthy and ready to play.

I think the reality with OAD players - the "mandatory" one year in college is used to showcase their ability to NBA scouts. Why play before 100% ready since the span to showcase is so short? The careers of Allen and Jeter don't follow the same timeline; therefore, they can play hurt.

I'm sure this also sounds snarky, but really believe this is the new reality. Giles, Tatum, and Bolden would be on NBA rosters if rules allowed, not at Duke. I understand why we need to bring in OADs, but that doesn't mean all of us like the concept.

Indoor66
11-24-2016, 07:35 AM
I think the reality with OAD players - the "mandatory" one year in college is used to showcase their ability to NBA scouts. Why play before 100% ready since the span to showcase is so short? The careers of Allen and Jeter don't follow the same timeline; therefore, they can play hurt.

I'm sure this also sounds snarky, but really believe this is the new reality. Giles, Tatum, and Bolden would be on NBA rosters if rules allowed, not at Duke. I understand why we need to bring in OADs, but that doesn't mean all of us like the concept.

I guess I don't have that level of cynicism and I hope that I never do.

MChambers
11-24-2016, 07:56 AM
Cory Alexander's main points of emphasis last night were to make sure everybody understands just how important and well-connected Cory Alexander is. Oh, and that "he" went 2-1 in Cameron. As if anybody besides his mama gives a crap. And even she's probably tired of hearing it.

And yes, he was relatively ill-informed. I'm always shocked at how little some of these guys really know about the teams they are covering.

Of course, he did play for UVA during the Laettner/Hurley/Hill glory years, so that probably still burns a little bit.

I'll start the 2016-2017 thread right now:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?38895-2016-2017-Announcer-Thread

tbyers11
11-24-2016, 08:47 AM
Awesome autocorrect. I can't decide if I should make a "Did you mean Sean May, because you are what you eat?" joke or a "Did you mean PJ Hairston, back when he could pick the restaurant?" joke.

I would totally take the PJ Hairston angle, because that was the lamest "punishment" I've ever heard of.

Roy:"PJ, because of your latest speeding/borrowed car/illegal gun possession escapade, you have lost your restaurant-picking privileges."
PJ: "Awwww, Coach, but I wanted to go to Stackhouse Steakhouse. I was hoping that we could split the chateaubriand."
Roy: "Dadgummit, PJ, you know that's my favorite. But, if we don't have punishment for our transgressions then what will this fine university become?"

I really think a Stackhouse Steakhouse would have been awesome. How could you go wrong with that alliteration? It definitely would have lasted longer on Franklin Street than the generic-sounding Michael Jordan's 23 steakhouse.

Also, when it came time to settle up, you could bet your bill on a game of cards with the proprietor. If you lost, you paid an extra $42. If you won, you wouldn't have to pay but Jerry would get to punch you in the face.

Rich
11-24-2016, 08:53 AM
And unlike Corey, I don't think integrating the super frosh with the veterans is going to be an issue at all. I think these guys all love each other and are going to mesh together as a team just fine.
...

The only negative really was that Jackson messed up on defensive assignments like 4 times in a very short period of time there in the 2nd half. Which no biggie, he will learn from it. We expect too much from freshmen sometimes even in this era.

My main concern with the late integration of the frosh is on the defensive end. We've seen in the past that it takes a long time to learn and adapt to K's defense. Remember in 2015 that we had to switch to a zone for a few games because the frosh just couldn't adequately run the man to man, although they finally figured it out come tourney time.

Rich
11-24-2016, 08:56 AM
Tatum with a foot sprain. How long would that last?

I don't know if it's the dreaded high ankle sprain, but that can take longer to fully heal than a fracture.

tbyers11
11-24-2016, 09:08 AM
I got a chance to talk to Giles after the game. I said "I thought watching warm ups you might play tonight". His response "So did I". So looks like he is ready. He moved and jumped well during warm ups. We saw Tatum after the game too and he was in the protective boot which makes sense as they use those boots often for players with foot issues even when they are actually playing in games, they wear boots afterwards. (Grayson was in sneakers after the game). Tatum told us he is close. I thought Chase looked like that ankle is still limiting his explosiveness as well. He still played fine though. I just hope we get healed up as a team soon so these guys can show the world how good they can be at full strength. And unlike Corey, I don't think integrating the super frosh with the veterans is going to be an issue at all. I think these guys all love each other and are going to mesh together as a team just fine.

So don't fret fellow Blue Devil fans. After what we saw tonight, I think all 3 injured frosh are going to be back soon, like before Christmas soon.

On to the game. I thought Grayson had an excellent all-around game despite a slow start from 3 Point Land. He would have had 9 or 10 assists had his teammates made a few more shots off good passes from him. He distributed the ball really well tonight in addition to getting his points. He also moved much better than he did on Sunday. Amile was really good as well. It was just a very solid, methodical performance against a good William & Mary team. They have some good players and are very well coached.

Vrank continues to play well when he gets minutes. After his solid first half I was somewhat surprised he did not get in earlier in the 2nd Half. The only negative really was that Jackson messed up on defensive assignments like 4 times in a very short period of time there in the 2nd half. Which no biggie, he will learn from it. We expect too much from freshmen sometimes even in this era. The kid can score though. I am also a member of the Javin fan club. I can't wait for the day the light comes on for him because I think he is going to wow us when that day comes.

All in all a great night in Cameron, and solid performance from our guys even though they are short handed and the core guys are logging crazy amounts of minutes.

Go Duke!!

Thanks for the eyewitness accounts. On Twitter, Ben Swain said that Giles went through warmups looking like a player who was really going to play and that Bolden went through warmups like a walk-on. I think that jibes with your views and discussions as well. I really hoped some of the 3 would be back against Michigan St. While only Giles has an outside chance, the magic 8 ball does seem to be showing "it's getting close" vs "I have no idea". I also think that not having to leave Durham over a 2 week period (Nov 21st-Dec 5) will help all the injured players get the optimal treatment and practice evaluation to get them back.

I agree that Grayson seems to have improved with his court-vision/decision-making part of his game. Last year, he would drive to the hole with wild abandon and use his athleticism to finish or draw contact. When he met players with equivalent athleticism, (UK/Oregon) he had some of his worst games. While I don't know if it was a conscious decision before the season to be more controlled/see more options on his drives or is a necessity due to his injury-induced reduction in explosiveness he is getting better at these situations (fast break kick to Frank for a corner 3 and a beautiful layoff dish to Vrank).

fuse
11-24-2016, 09:49 AM
Who?

Couldn't spork you for this. Any crossover with basketball and The Who is a winner in my book.

Hat tip to Reilly with the assist.

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 10:09 AM
Couldn't spork you for this. Any crossover with basketball and The Who is a winner in my book.

Hat tip to Reilly with the assist.

Would that also go out to his sister, Baba O'Reilly?

duke74
11-24-2016, 10:10 AM
Hat tip to Reilly with the assist.

Baba O'...? (I know diff spelling but couldn't resist)

fuse
11-24-2016, 10:47 AM
Old Phi Kap and duke74, you are the best :-)

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 11:01 AM
Old Phi Kap and duke74, you are the best :-)

The Kids Are Alright.

NSDukeFan
11-24-2016, 11:16 AM
The Kids Are Alright.

You don't think it's a teenage wasteland?

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 11:30 AM
You don't think it's a teenage wasteland?

Hoping that this season is a Magic Bus.

devildeac
11-24-2016, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the eyewitness accounts. On Twitter, Ben Swain said that Giles went through warmups looking like a player who was really going to play and that Bolden went through warmups like a walk-on. I think that jibes with your views and discussions as well. I really hoped some of the 3 would be back against Michigan St. While only Giles has an outside chance, the magic 8 ball does seem to be showing "it's getting close" vs "I have no idea". I also think that not having to leave Durham over a 2 week period (Nov 21st-Dec 5) will help all the injured players get the optimal treatment and practice evaluation to get them back.

I agree that Grayson seems to have improved with his court-vision/decision-making part of his game. Last year, he would drive to the hole with wild abandon and use his athleticism to finish or draw contact. When he met players with equivalent athleticism, (UK/Oregon) he had some of his worst games. While I don't know if it was a conscious decision before the season to be more controlled/see more options on his drives or is a necessity due to his injury-induced reduction in explosiveness he is getting better at these situations (fast break kick to Frank for a corner 3 and a beautiful layoff dish to Vrank).

Interesting sidebar to the Grayson comments is that a quote I read buried somewhere in the Raleigh N&O after the RI game (paraphrasing him and Coach Capel) was that it was amazing/encouraging what he saw/did when he knew he wasn't going to/couldn't shoot.

devildeac
11-24-2016, 11:48 AM
The Kids Are Alright.

You must be talking about your generation...

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 12:16 PM
You must be talking about your generation...

In m-m-m-my generation, Who played first.

devildeac
11-24-2016, 12:19 PM
In m-m-m-my generation, Who played first.

That is correct.

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 12:42 PM
That is correct.

Why?

jimsumner
11-24-2016, 12:54 PM
When the freshmen come back, will they be substitutes? Or will we be fooled again? Will K still be a seeker? Will he be asking who are you? If they don't come back, is the song over?

So many questions, so little time.

gam7
11-24-2016, 01:07 PM
When the freshmen come back, will they be substitutes? Or will we be fooled again? Will K still be a seeker? Will he be asking who are you? If they don't come back, is the song over?

So many questions, so little time.
Hopefully they can be heroes for more than one day.

duke74
11-24-2016, 01:11 PM
The Kids Are Alright.

And so are the old-timers. 😉

duke74
11-24-2016, 01:13 PM
Hopefully they can be heroes for more than one day.

A little Bowie never hurts.

duke74
11-24-2016, 01:15 PM
In m-m-m-my generation, Who played first.

And...he's pitching and she's catching. https://youtu.be/kTcRRaXV-fg

devildeac
11-24-2016, 01:16 PM
Why?

I don't know, I just thought I'd ask.

devildeac
11-24-2016, 01:18 PM
When the freshmen come back, will they be substitutes? Or will we be fooled again? Will K still be a seeker? Will he be asking who are you? If they don't come back, is the song over?

So many questions, so little time.

I should have known it.

uh_no
11-24-2016, 01:48 PM
When the freshmen come back, will they be substitutes? Or will we be fooled again? Will K still be a seeker? Will he be asking who are you? If they don't come back, is the song over?

So many questions, so little time.

No, But I imagine Mr. White will be happy with increased playing time

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 01:54 PM
When the freshmen come back, will they be substitutes? Or will we be fooled again? Will K still be a seeker? Will he be asking who are you? If they don't come back, is the song over?

So many questions, so little time.

It's a legal matter, baby.







("Must spread love" before sporking, too bad. Jim hit it perfectly)

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 01:55 PM
I don't know, I just thought I'd ask.

Well, I just thought I'd tell 'ya.

superdave
11-24-2016, 04:49 PM
No, But I imagine Mr. White will be happy with increased playing time

You better, you bet.

UrinalCake
11-24-2016, 07:48 PM
I agree that Grayson seems to have improved with his court-vision/decision-making part of his game. Last year, he would drive to the hole with wild abandon and use his athleticism to finish or draw contact. When he met players with equivalent athleticism, (UK/Oregon) he had some of his worst games. While I don't know if it was a conscious decision before the season to be more controlled/see more options on his drives or is a necessity due to his injury-induced reduction in explosiveness he is getting better at these situations (fast break kick to Frank for a corner 3 and a beautiful layoff dish to Vrank).

I have noticed this as well and I think it is a conscious decision, not only because he knows he was too easy to defend when he always went straight at the basket and shot, but also because he wants to demonstrate more PG-type skills in preparation for the next level. He is definitely look to kick out more when driving to the basket. There have been a few cases where I would say he even takes this too far and would have been better off taking the shot rather than kicking it out, but it's a balance that he's having to learn. And of course it's a lot easier for me to make that decision sitting on my couch than for him to correctly read the defense at game speed.

As for the game, I thought the team lacked energy for the first 10 or so minutes. Somewhat understandable given the number of games they've played, the lead-in to a holiday break, and maybe overlooking their opponent. We settled for threes a lot but fortunately were hitting them, so I guess that constitutes good offense :). William and Mary's players were woefully thin which was really apparent in person, and we were mostly able to force them to take difficult shots. There were a handful of defensive breakdowns leading to open dunks on their part, but for the most part I was pretty pleased with the D. Grayson is clearly not 100% but I thought he looked better physically than he did in the Rhode Island game. Maybe he's moved from 50% to 65%. Interestingly, learning how to find ways to score when he doesn't have a physical advantage over his opponent might be good preparation for him for the NBA, when he won't be able to out-athletic the guys guarding him.

Really nice contribution from Vrank, who had to guard a much smaller/quicker guy.

jipops
11-24-2016, 09:55 PM
When the freshmen come back, will they be substitutes? Or will we be fooled again? Will K still be a seeker? Will he be asking who are you? If they don't come back, is the song over?

So many questions, so little time.

If they are back soon I'll be one happy jack, I can't explain. Or maybe it's all just an eminence front. At least the current kids are alright

subzero02
11-24-2016, 10:10 PM
I have noticed this as well and I think it is a conscious decision, not only because he knows he was too easy to defend when he always went straight at the basket and shot, but also because he wants to demonstrate more PG-type skills in preparation for the next level. He is definitely look to kick out more when driving to the basket. There have been a few cases where I would say he even takes this too far and would have been better off taking the shot rather than kicking it out, but it's a balance that he's having to learn. And of course it's a lot easier for me to make that decision sitting on my couch than for him to correctly read the defense at game speed.

As for the game, I thought the team lacked energy for the first 10 or so minutes. Somewhat understandable given the number of games they've played, the lead-in to a holiday break, and maybe overlooking their opponent. We settled for threes a lot but fortunately were hitting them, so I guess that constitutes good offense :). William and Mary's players were woefully thin which was really apparent in person, and we were mostly able to force them to take difficult shots. There were a handful of defensive breakdowns leading to open dunks on their part, but for the most part I was pretty pleased with the D. Grayson is clearly not 100% but I thought he looked better physically than he did in the Rhode Island game. Maybe he's moved from 50% to 65%. Interestingly, learning how to find ways to score when he doesn't have a physical advantage over his opponent might be good preparation for him for the NBA, when he won't be able to out-athletic the guys guarding him.

Really nice contribution from Vrank, who had to guard a much smaller/quicker guy.


I'd say he's about 65 percent. He's a half step slow and has temporarily lost a significant amount of his leaping prowess. This really has hurt his ability to finish his drives. I remember the height he was getting on his drives against Sam Dekker in the national championship game. He's not even approaching that right now.

devildeac
11-24-2016, 10:25 PM
If they are back soon I'll be one happy jack, I can't explain. Or maybe it's all just an eminence front. At least the current kids are alright

There has to be a twist. You've got such a supple wrist with your posting.