MBB: Duke vs William & Mary (11/23/16, 7 pm, ESPNU) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[gofurman]

Has there been any discussion of William and Mary?

Top players. I'll look up scores

[BeachBlueDevil]

Being somewhat close to Bill & Mary I see things on the news nightly. That said, Omar Prewitt is the BMOC there. He's 6'7 plays the 2 & 3 spots and can fill it up from time to time. As far as Bill & Mary as whole, well-coached team and constantly in the top 4 or 5 teams in the CAA. The CAA isn't what is used to be without Mason, ODU & VCU, but they're consistent and beat NC State last year and Tony Shaver really coaches his team up.

[Merlindevildog91]

So far they are 2-1. Defeated DIII Bridgewater College, 96-44, lost @ Louisville 91-58, defeated the Presbyterian College Blue Hose, 89-59. Later in the year they play (among others) Central Michigan, Rhode Island, and Old Dominion. They are in the CAA.

Tallest guy listed on their roster is a 6'10" freshman from NH, Nathan Knight. He had 14 points and 7 rebounds off the bench against Louisville. (Louisville was the only box score I looked at in the limited time I had.) Omar Prewitt, a 6'7" G/F, also had 14.

Prewitt started; the other starters against Louisville were 6'8" Paul Rowley (3 points), 6'9" Jack Whitman (3 points), 6'6" Daniel Dixon (7 points) and 6'2" David Cohn (8 points, 4 assists).

[TruBlu]

Just looked at the ESPN app on my mobile device. They are showing the point spread for the Duke/Bill&Mary game as "even".

Doesn't sound right to me, unless our injury problem has gotten a bunch worse. If I gambled, I might have to get in on that.

[unclsam1]

Just looked at the ESPN app on my mobile device. They are showing the point spread for the Duke/Bill&Mary game as "even".

Doesn't sound right to me, unless our injury problem has gotten a bunch worse. If I gambled, I might have to get in on that.

Noticed the same thing leading up to the Penn State game. Probably those setting the odds don't want to provide a spread until they know for sure which players are definitely sidelined for the game. Even is probably a placeholder.

[Reilly]

Tony Shaver is a UNC alum. Where's Chuck Swenson these days -- Harvard?

[Bob Green]

Just looked at the ESPN app on my mobile device. They are showing the point spread for the Duke/Bill&Mary game as "even".

Doesn't sound right to me, unless our injury problem has gotten a bunch worse. If I gambled, I might have to get in on that.

VegasInsider has Duke favored by 21.5 points:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

[gofurman]

VegasInsider has Duke favored by 21.5 points:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

Bob, right The guys seeing 'even' are noticing that they don't set point spreads on basketball until near the day of the game. With football you have a week,, wth basketball they wait until near game day as there are other games vegas can 'sell' for today. Say Uconn v Chaminade. No need to put up points on Duke until late tonight or tomorrow. With Football, Duke has played Pitt so within a day or two they set the next one (by Monday?) as there aren't that many football games in the interim to sell... MNF and a few other college games. By Tuesday all college football lines are up, for next Saturday, just from my general notice - as an interested fan... Basketball is different. No need to put a number on Duke v Will and Mary if they have other games today.

I wish it were EVEN and we could play that.


Anyway, yeah, William and Mary beat the crap out of Presbyterian so they aren't horrible. They got killed by Louisville. Sorta like a slightly less talented Penn State but at home? Good game to practice

[gofurman]

top threats to watch.. see how we guard...

Dixon is a 6'6 guy who gets 12 a game. Number 0, Guard; senior
Prewitt 6'7 forward gets 12 a game. Number 4, Forward; senior


10 guys deep with several 6'9 guys. Not a short team

[Newton_14]

VegasInsider has Duke favored by 21.5 points:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

Props to Mr Bob! He always comes through with points spreads and over/unders for FB and Hoops. One of the regular treats I look for on DBR. Please spork the man. I can't as I have to "spread the love" first.

I will be at this game, taking my 11 yr old daughter to her first ever real game in Cameron. She has only been to CTC before now. She is stoked. Hopefully some of the guys will be trading in their suits for uniforms and actually play, though I fear they may just be trading spots with Chase and Grayson. She is going to go nuts if Grayson doesn't play!

I'm anxious to see the guys in person again.

[WiJoe]

with all due respect to Bob, the lines aren't hard to find.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I haven't seen this page (http://www.scacchoops.com/acc-mens-basketball-injury-report)before, but I look at SCACCHoops.com for live tempo-based stats from time to time. The ACC Injury Report lists Jayson Tatum's status as... "Questionable" while Bolden, Giles, and Obi are Out Indefinitely. I follow the site's Jon Pence on twitter and asked him where he gets info for the injury reports. He responded "Good question, from a variety of sources is the best answer I can give you." I told him I was wondering if I should get my hopes up about Tatum. He responded "Don't hold your breath."

Not to read into it too much, Tatum is showing progress and is ahead of the other freshmen (and Obi) in his recovery. We can expect him back sooner rather than later, but perhaps not Wednesday.

[Tripping William]

Anyway, yeah, William and Mary beat the crap out of Presbyterian so they aren't horrible. They got killed by Louisville. Sorta like a slightly less talented Penn State but at home? Good game to practice

Any Blue Hose fans get tossed for heckling W&M foul shooters? No? Didn't think so ...

[Spanarkel]

Tony Shaver is a UNC alum.



As is the Tribe's Associate Head Coach Jonathan Holmes(who just missed getting to play for 3 UNC Head Coaches from '99-'03).

[Saratoga2]

I haven't seen this page (http://www.scacchoops.com/acc-mens-basketball-injury-report)before, but I look at SCACCHoops.com for live tempo-based stats from time to time. The ACC Injury Report lists Jayson Tatum's status as... "Questionable" while Bolden, Giles, and Obi are Out Indefinitely. I follow the site's Jon Pence on twitter and asked him where he gets info for the injury reports. He responded "Good question, from a variety of sources is the best answer I can give you." I told him I was wondering if I should get my hopes up about Tatum. He responded "Don't hold your breath."

Not to read into it too much, Tatum is showing progress and is ahead of the other freshmen (and Obi) in his recovery. We can expect him back sooner rather than later, but perhaps not Wednesday.

Who would know. I can understand coach K not letting the fan base know the details of individual injuries, as they are private medical issues, but he seems to want an energized fan base and won't even indicate the general time frame of the return. It is frustrating to have coach K take this approach.

[TruBlu]

Who would know. I can understand coach K not letting the fan base know the details of individual injuries, as they are private medical issues, but he seems to want an energized fan base and won't even indicate the general time frame of the return. It is frustrating to have coach K take this approach.

If we think it is frustrating to us, just imagine how frustrating it is to the upcoming opponents and their coaches. That might be one reason for coach K to take this approach.

[gurufrisbee]

I'd like to see Vrank, DeLaurier, and White combine for 30 minutes tonight and not because everyone else was in the training room.

[Newton_14]

I'd like to see Vrank, DeLaurier, and White combine for 30 minutes tonight and not because everyone else was in the training room. If we jump on them early and keep them down, then I think all 3 of those guys will get plenty of playing time tonight. I hope Javin can work on defending without fouling. That is THE one thing keeping him off the floor currently with all the injuries. Vrank on the other hand has represented himself quite well in his minutes in my opinion (despite the strong disagreement from my buddy Kaze :) )

[Troublemaker]

Anyway, yeah, William and Mary beat the crap out of Presbyterian so they aren't horrible. They got killed by Louisville. Sorta like a slightly less talented Penn State but at home? Good game to practice


If we jump on them early and keep them down, then I think all 3 of those guys will get plenty of playing time tonight. I hope Javin can work on defending without fouling. That is THE one thing keeping him off the floor currently with all the injuries. Vrank on the other hand has represented himself quite well in his minutes in my opinion (despite the strong disagreement from my buddy Kaze :) )

Perhaps, but in kenpom, William & Mary is ranked higher than Penn St. If Duke is banged up without reinforcements tonight, a close and/or ugly game is very possible.

[Newton_14]

Perhaps, but in kenpom, William & Mary is ranked higher than Penn St. If Duke is banged up without reinforcements tonight, a close and/or ugly game is very possible.

Yeah agree and lest we forget, Bill & Mary blew out NC State last season in Raleigh. Not sure how many players they return from that team, but we certainly cannot overlook them, especially given our current injury situation. This could very well end up being a competitive game. Which will disappoint gurufrisbee and many others myself included because it would mean Javin and Jack remaining glued to the bench.

Let's hope our boys are on their game and roll these guys!

[DukieTiger]

One thing to watch tonight: can Duke chase W&M off the 3-point line? And can they do so without sacrificing interior defense too much?

Duke's almost assured to go small to match with the smaller mid-major. Sometimes I wish Duke would pack it in with its big lineup against these smaller schools and just dominate the boards with its size. I suspect the reason going small is preferable is that the only way a team like this will score the upset is to light Duke up from 3pt range.

W&M in particular. This year, they've taken about 50% of their shots from 3pt range. 50 percent!

In the KenPom era, if there's one thing Duke has consistently done, it's limit the volume of 3pt attempts they give up. It's part of Duke's defensive DNA, regardless of personnel or defensive style in any given year.

So I'll be interested to see how Duke's depleted roster guards the 3pt line. And can we do that without giving up the size advantage inside? W&M struggles to finish inside (they get a shot blocked on about 1 in 4 offensive possessions) so you'd like to see Duke really take advantage of that. But sometimes, Duke gets so focused on stopping the 3, that their shot-blockers get pulled away from the basket and they give up some easy looks through penetration and back-door cuts.

Duke's defense looks much improved this year, but I would love to see that improvement tangibly (yes, even with a short-handed roster) through some interior dominance tonight.

[Newton_14]

One thing to watch tonight: can Duke chase W&M off the 3-point line? And can they do so without sacrificing interior defense too much?

Duke's almost assured to go small to match with the smaller mid-major. Sometimes I wish Duke would pack it in with its big lineup against these smaller schools and just dominate the boards with its size. I suspect the reason going small is preferable is that the only way a team like this will score the upset is to light Duke up from 3pt range.

W&M in particular. This year, they've taken about 50% of their shots from 3pt range. 50 percent!

In the KenPom era, if there's one thing Duke has consistently done, it's limit the volume of 3pt attempts they give up. It's part of Duke's defensive DNA, regardless of personnel or defensive style in any given year.

So I'll be interested to see how Duke's depleted roster guards the 3pt line. And can we do that without giving up the size advantage inside? W&M struggles to finish inside (they get a shot blocked on about 1 in 4 offensive possessions) so you'd like to see Duke really take advantage of that. But sometimes, Duke gets so focused on stopping the 3, that their shot-blockers get pulled away from the basket and they give up some easy looks through penetration and back-door cuts.

Duke's defense looks much improved this year, but I would love to see that improvement tangibly (yes, even with a short-handed roster) through some interior dominance tonight.

Good points. Duke's defense this year has definitely been geared toward stopping 3 pointers. The announcers mentioned over the weekend games that Duke is limiting opponents to 29% 3 Point make percentage and also limiting attempts which is really good. That's one reason we give up blow bys and points in the paint. Concede a layup on occasion to deny the 3. Not always pretty, but it works. Once we get Bolden and Giles back to erase shots at the rim, it will work even better.

[gofurman]

What time is the game. I saw it as 7 but one site listed it as 6? Eastern

[Bob Green]

What time is the game. I saw it as 7 but one site listed it as 6? Eastern

The game is at 7 pm EST.

[ACCBBallFan]

Though William & Mary is a mid major, their roster does not suggest small ball will work against them. Of their top 8 players, 7 are listed as 6' 6" or taller and 6 are listed as forwards, only 2 as guards.

The guard Cohn who averages 7 assists per game only weighs 168 pounds and is listed as 6'2". The other guard Dixon shoots 9 for 23 from 3 pt area, and has racked up 10 fouls in 3 games.

So Matt Jones would guard one of them, either to limit Cohn's assists or Dixon's 3 point attempts.

[rocketeli]

William and Mary are not on Duke's level, but they are in no way terrible. I expect Duke to win, but would not be surprised if it was closer than the spread, or if William and Mary hung around even well into the second half. And if Duke is caught mentally or physically taking the day off...look out.

[kAzE]

Any further word on the injured freshmen? Really hoping at least 1 of them can make their debut tonight.

[jimsumner]

Any further word on the injured freshmen? Really hoping at least 1 of them can make their debut tonight.

I would be surprised to see any of the injured freshmen play tonight.

[BandAlum83]

I would be surprised to see any of the injured freshmen play tonight.

Any particular reason? Inside info?

[arnie]

I would be surprised to see any of the injured freshmen play tonight.

Would you also be surprised to see any of the 3 against Michigan State?

[DukeBBJunkies]

Some notes on William & Mary:



Tony Shaver is the head coach, played for Dean Smith from 72-76 as a walk-on
Been coach at W&M since 2003

won 358 games as a D3 coach and made 2 D3 Final Fours...175-225 at W&M...but over 500 wins in college total

W&M won 20 games and went 11-7 in conference last year...previous 2 years lost in conference championship game...and has won exactly 20 games 3 straight years, but zero NCAA appearances

All 3 games so far this year have been laughers beating two weak opponents big and losing by 33 to Louisville on the road, though they were down only 13 at half. Partly as a result, they have 10 guys averaging 10+ minutes a game

Omar Prewitt is back, was 2nd team all conference last year and is their best player on both ends of the court. So far averaging onlly 11/3/2. He's a 6'7, 195 Senior small forward/wing player...last year averaged 17.8, shot 36% from 3, looks like a prodigious gunner

Everybody on their roster is between 6'1 and 6'9, but they do hava couple big heavy 6'9" guys to bang on the boards, namely Jack Whitman, a 6'9, 235 lb junior from Kentucky averaging 9 pts/6 rbs and .615% from the field and a widebodied FROSH named Nathan Knight who had 14 and 7 against Louisville.

Paul Rowley shooting 50% from 3s so far...sophomore didn't play much last year...6'8" F. Probably just hot early, but at his size could be dangerous.

[Newton_14]

Tatum in uniform and warming up! !! Yes!!!

[Newton_14]

As is Bolden!!! (

[mattman91]

haven't they been warming up the last few games?

[MPandolfi]

And Giles!!

[Newton_14]

Not sure. Bolden and Tatum are in full uniform.... Gilles participating in all warm up drills 😀

[dukebluesincebirth]

Giles was dunking in warm ups in MSG the other week, but did not play. I don't expect to see any of them tonight.

[mattman91]

Will this be streaming on WatchESPN? I do not see it listed.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Will this be streaming on WatchESPN? I do not see it listed.

Yup. It's on WatchESPN for me. But I'm in Boston right now...

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[mgtr]

It is listed under "upcoming."

[Troublemaker]

Will this be streaming on WatchESPN? I do not see it listed.

I think so. Here's the link if watching on a computer: http://www.espn.com/watchespn/index/_/id/2886760/william--mary-vs-1-duke

[mattman91]

I think so. Here's the link if watching on a computer: http://www.espn.com/watchespn/index/_/id/2886760/william--mary-vs-1-duke

Thanks!

Not sure why I couldn't find it earlier...user error I suppose.

[Merlindevildog91]

Tatum standing on the sidelines with Sean Obi. Bolden in uniform shorts warming up. Harry is in long pants, as is Amile. They are both warming up.

I feel like I am waiting for white smoke from the Vatican.

[Indoor66]

I have the game listed on ESPNU to follow the Michigan - South Carolina game. That is in South Florida.

[Troublemaker]

Per radio, the 3 frosh are still out today.

Warming up is a good sign, though. It's getting close.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/William & Mary...

http://www.scacchoops.com/william--mary-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-11232016

[subzero02]

Allen is truly struggling. We need either Kennard or Jackson to heat up in the 2nd half. William and Mary can shoot, if they had some more front court talent, I'd be pretty worried right now.

[Indoor66]

Vrank: can't teach 7'

[DBFAN]

Did anyone else Catch Alexander saying that he thought UNC was better than Duke even if we had our Freshman

[subzero02]

Pretty good shot by Jones and an even better tip by Amile to close out the half.

[rsvman]

Did anyone else Catch Alexander saying that he thought UNC was better than Duke even if we had our Freshman

Yeah, because they have Berry, he said. SMH.

[WVDUKEFAN]

There was also some discussion (again) that Giles may never play for Duke. I certainly hope that isn't the case.

[slower]

Did anyone else Catch Alexander saying that he thought UNC was better than Duke even if we had our Freshman

Alexander is kind of a bonehead. He also said that Jeter is a fantastic athlete, which I've never heard expressed anywhere. Just another idiot with a microphone.

[duke4ever19]

Did anyone else Catch Alexander saying that he thought UNC was better than Duke even if we had our Freshman

I mean, he definitely doesn't need to see Duke's freshmen play a regular season game before saying that, does he? :rolleyes:

[Tripping William]

Alexander is kind of a bonehead. He also said that Jeter is a fantastic athlete, which I've never heard expressed anywhere. Just another idiot with a microphone.

I lost him when he said both Michigan and Ohio State should make the football playoff.

[Newton_14]

Per radio, the 3 frosh are still out today.

Warming up is a good sign, though. It's getting close.

Yep. Getting acclimated. They have to be close. Giles and Bolden participated in everything except checking into the game. Tatum participated in early shoot around and drills but did not participated when they came out for official warmups...