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pfrduke
11-21-2016, 12:57 AM
I keep thinking that one of these years the mid-tier ACC teams will surprise in their pre-season tournaments, score an upset or two, and help set the narrative of the ACC being the best conference in the land. But it never really seems to happen. Clemson and State failed to capitalize on their chances this week and while Duke continued its stellar pre-season tourney record (winning all but one since the 2007 season) that was the only tournament championship for the ACC. Several of the heavyweights start their tourneys this week, so I expect the count to go up.

Monday
[52]NC State vs. [92]St. Joseph's in St. Thomas (6:00, CBSSN)
[33]Notre Dame vs. [48]Colorado in Brooklyn (7:00, ESPN2)
[5]North Carolina vs. [NR]Chaminade in Maui (11:30, ESPN2)

Tuesday
[33]Notre Dame vs. [46]Texas/[60]Northwestern in Brooklyn (3:30/6:00, ESPNU/ESPN2)
[5]North Carolina vs. [61]Oklahoma State/[66]Connecticut in Maui (3:30/10:30, ESPN2/ESPN)
[54]Pittsburgh hosts [127]Yale (7:00, ACCN)
[8]Syracuse hosts [318]South Carolina State (7:00, ACCN)
[4]Virginia hosts [341]Grambling (7:00, ACCN)
[185]Boston College hosts [134]Towson (7:00, ACCN)
[105]Georgia Tech hosts [150]Sam Houston (7:30, ACCN)

Wednesday
[1]Duke hosts [93]William & Mary (7:00, ESPNU)
[62]Wake Forest hosts [209]Coastal Carolina (7:30, ACCN)
[7]Louisville vs. [106]Old Dominion in Atlantis (9:30, AXS)
[5]North Carolina vs. [9]Oregon/[10]Wisconsin/[44]Georgetown/[119]Tennessee in Maui (TBD, ESPN2)

Thursday
[36]Florida State vs. [114]Temple in Brooklyn (12:30, ESPNU)
[17]Miami vs. [63]Stanford in Orlando (2:30, ESPN2)
[45]Virginia Tech vs. [82]New Mexico in Fullerton (4:30, ESPN)
[7]Louisville vs. [23]Wichita State/[89]Louisiana State (2:30/9:30, ESPN/AXS)

Friday
[7]Louisville vs. [22]Baylor/[27]Michigan State/[33]VCU/[90]St. John's in Atlantis (ESPN)
[17]Miami vs. [30]Iowa State/[163]Indiana State in Orlando (11:00/1:00, ESPN2/ESPN3)
[36]Florida State vs. [18]West Virginia/[72]Illinois in Brooklyn (12:30/3:00, ESPNU/ESPN2)
[45]Virginia Tech vs. [32]Texas A&M/[181]Cal-State Northridge in Fullerton (3:00/5:30, ESPNU/ESPN2)
[4]Virginia vs. [58]Iowa in Niceville (6:00, CBSSN)
[28]Clemson hosts [272]High Point (7:00, ACCN)
[54]Pittsburgh hosts [188]Morehead State (7:00, ACCN)
[185]Boston College vs. [40]Kansas State in Brooklyn (7:00)

Saturday
[1]Duke hosts [288]Appalachian State (12:00, ACCN)
[105]Georgia Tech hosts [220]Tulane (12:00, ACCN)
[8]Syracuse vs. [57]South Carolina in Brooklyn (2:00, ACCN)
[52]NC State hosts [186]Loyola Chicago (4:00, ACCN)
[4]Virginia vs. [59]Providence/[99]Memphis in Niceville (3:00/6:00, CBSSN)
[33]Notre Dame hosts [337]Chicago State (7:00, ACCN)
[185]Boston College vs. [53]Maryland/[98]Richmond in Brooklyn (7:00/9:30)

Sunday
[17]Miami vs. [14]Florida/[20]Gonzaga/[35]Seton Hall/[280]Quinnipiac in Orlando (TBD)
[45]Virginia Tech vs. [30]UCLA/[37]Dayton/[76]Nebraska/[148]Portland in Anaheim (TBD)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 46-8
ACC Record vs. Power 6*: 3-5
America East: 2-0
American Athletic: 0-1
Atlantic Sun: 1-0
Atlantic Ten: 2-0
Big 12: 0-2
Big East: 1-3
Big Sky: 1-0
Big South: 5-0
B1G Ten: 1-0
Big West: 3-0
Colonial: 2-0
Conference USA: 2-0
Horizon: 1-0
Ivy: 2-0
MAAC: 3-0
MAC: 1-1
MEAC: 1-0
MVC: 1-0
Northeast: 3-0
Ohio Valley: 1-0
Patriot: 4-0
SEC: 1-0
Southern: 4-0
Southland: 0-1
Sun Belt: 1-0
SWAC: 1-0
WAC: 2-0

*Big XII, B1G, Big East, Pac-12, SEC

NSDukeFan
11-21-2016, 11:51 AM
I keep thinking that one of these years the mid-tier ACC teams will surprise in their pre-season tournaments, score an upset or two, and help set the narrative of the ACC being the best conference in the land. But it never really seems to happen. Clemson and State failed to capitalize on their chances this week and while Duke continued its stellar pre-season tourney record (winning all but one since the 2007 season) that was the only tournament championship for the ACC. Several of the heavyweights start their tourneys this week, so I expect the count to go up.

Monday
[52]NC State vs. [92]St. Joseph's in St. Thomas (6:00, CBSSN)
[33]Notre Dame vs. [48]Colorado in Brooklyn (7:00, ESPN2)
[5]North Carolina vs. [NR]Chaminade in Maui (11:30, ESPN2)

Tuesday
[33]Notre Dame vs. [46]Texas/[60]Northwestern in Brooklyn (3:30/6:00, ESPNU/ESPN2)
[5]North Carolina vs. [61]Oklahoma State/[66]Connecticut in Maui (3:30/10:30, ESPN2/ESPN)
[54]Pittsburgh hosts [127]Yale (7:00, ACCN)
[8]Syracuse hosts [318]South Carolina State (7:00, ACCN)
[4]Virginia hosts [341]Grambling (7:00, ACCN)
[185]Boston College hosts [134]Towson (7:00, ACCN)
[105]Georgia Tech hosts [150]Sam Houston (7:30, ACCN)

Wednesday
[1]Duke hosts [93]William & Mary (7:00, ESPNU)
[62]Wake Forest hosts [209]Coastal Carolina (7:30, ACCN)
[7]Louisville vs. [106]Old Dominion in Atlantis (9:30, AXS)
[5]North Carolina vs. [9]Oregon/[10]Wisconsin/[44]Georgetown/[119]Tennessee in Maui (TBD, ESPN2)

Thursday
[36]Florida State vs. [114]Temple in Brooklyn (12:30, ESPNU)
[17]Miami vs. [63]Stanford in Orlando (2:30, ESPN2)
[45]Virginia Tech vs. [82]New Mexico in Fullerton (4:30, ESPN)
[7]Louisville vs. [23]Wichita State/[89]Louisiana State (2:30/9:30, ESPN/AXS)

Friday
[7]Louisville vs. [22]Baylor/[27]Michigan State/[33]VCU/[90]St. John's in Atlantis (ESPN)
[17]Miami vs. [30]Iowa State/[163]Indiana State in Orlando (11:00/1:00, ESPN2/ESPN3)
[36]Florida State vs. [18]West Virginia/[72]Illinois in Brooklyn (12:30/3:00, ESPNU/ESPN2)
[45]Virginia Tech vs. [32]Texas A&M/[181]Cal-State Northridge in Fullerton (3:00/5:30, ESPNU/ESPN2)
[4]Virginia vs. [58]Iowa in Niceville (6:00, CBSSN)
[28]Clemson hosts [272]High Point (7:00, ACCN)
[54]Pittsburgh hosts [188]Morehead State (7:00, ACCN)
[185]Boston College vs. [40]Kansas State in Brooklyn (7:00)

Saturday
[1]Duke hosts [288]Appalachian State (12:00, ACCN)
[105]Georgia Tech hosts [220]Tulane (12:00, ACCN)
[8]Syracuse vs. [57]South Carolina in Brooklyn (2:00, ACCN)
[52]NC State hosts [186]Loyola Chicago (4:00, ACCN)
[4]Virginia vs. [59]Providence/[99]Memphis in Niceville (3:00/6:00, CBSSN)
[33]Notre Dame hosts [337]Chicago State (7:00, ACCN)
[185]Boston College vs. [53]Maryland/[98]Richmond in Brooklyn (7:00/9:30)

Sunday
[17]Miami vs. [14]Florida/[20]Gonzaga/[35]Seton Hall/[280]Quinnipiac in Orlando (TBD)
[45]Virginia Tech vs. [30]UCLA/[37]Dayton/[76]Nebraska/[148]Portland in Anaheim (TBD)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 46-8
ACC Record vs. Power 6*: 3-5
America East: 2-0
American Athletic: 0-1
Atlantic Sun: 1-0
Atlantic Ten: 2-0
Big 12: 0-2
Big East: 1-3
Big Sky: 1-0
Big South: 5-0
B1G Ten: 1-0
Big West: 3-0
Colonial: 2-0
Conference USA: 2-0
Horizon: 1-0
Ivy: 2-0
MAAC: 3-0
MAC: 1-1
MEAC: 1-0
MVC: 1-0
Northeast: 3-0
Ohio Valley: 1-0
Patriot: 4-0
SEC: 1-0
Southern: 4-0
Southland: 0-1
Sun Belt: 1-0
SWAC: 1-0
WAC: 2-0

*Big XII, B1G, Big East, Pac-12, SEC
Looks like lots of good matchups this week. The conference could have a great week, even if it doesn't post any upsets.

TruBlu
11-21-2016, 11:58 AM
So, it's possible that the cheaters lose 3 games this week! I'll even settle for 2!

PackMan97
11-21-2016, 12:05 PM
I keep thinking that one of these years the mid-tier ACC teams will surprise in their pre-season tournaments, score an upset or two, and help set the narrative of the ACC being the best conference in the land. But it never really seems to happen. Clemson and State failed to capitalize on their chances this week

#20 Creighton scored 79 points in an upset of #9 Wisconson earlier in the week. Expecting NC State to pull the upset down 3 of their top 7 players would be a downright miracle. Granted, thats' something that Duke can do...but I don't know the last time anyone confused NC State for Duke...maybe 1994-95?

pfrduke
11-21-2016, 12:09 PM
#20 Creighton scored 79 points in an upset of #9 Wisconson earlier in the week. Expecting NC State to pull the upset down 3 of their top 7 players would be a downright miracle. Granted, thats' something that Duke can do...but I don't know the last time anyone confused NC State for Duke...maybe 1994-95?

It's certainly not an expectation and I'm not even saying NC State did poorly by not winning. I'm just bemoaning the lost opportunity for an upset. My hope every year is that (with the exception of the pale blue cheaters down the road) the ACC wins all of its marquee non-conference games. That's obviously never going to happen. My more realistic hope is that we go about 50/50, which I think will happen this year. My potentially achievable but still probably optimistic hope is that we do about 65/35 in those games, which is definitely within the realm of possibility any season but may not happen this year.

Put another way, I would have been ecstatic had NC State and Clemson won their tournaments, but I'm not disappointed in them for having lost.

Olympic Fan
11-21-2016, 12:13 PM
I think the Cheaters in Maui is one of the big storylines of the week.

They pretty much get a pass until the finals (UConn has been struggling and Okie State isn't that much of a threat), where they should meet Oregon or Wisconsin. The story out of Eugene is the Brooks, who has been out so far with a preseason foot injury) will return to action for limited minutes in today's opener.

I agree with pgrduke that our mid-level teams have been a bit disappointing, but worth noting that nine ACC teams remain undefeated. Good chance for Virginia, Louisville, Va Tech and the Cheats to add significant wins this week.

I won't be able to stay up and watch the Cheats against an NAIA team tonight, but I will be very interested in NC State, trying to bounced back against Sr. Joe's, and Notre Dame's game with Colorado in Brooklyn.

gam7
11-21-2016, 12:24 PM
I am surprised to see that up to this point in the season, Duke has the second toughest non-conference strength of schedule among the top 20 teams in the country (ranked #112 in D1 overall) (all according to kenpom (http://www.kenpom.com/)). Interesting given the generally lukewarm reaction on these boards (including by me) and elsewhere to our out of conference schedule before the season began.

Kansas has far and away the toughest nonconference slate so far among the kenpom top 20, ranked #13 in Div. 1.

With all of the preseason tournaments this week, which will inevitably lead to tough matchups for lots of teams, I anticipate that Duke's nonconference strength of schedule ranking will be surpassed by a few others.

devildeac
11-21-2016, 12:51 PM
So, it's possible that the cheaters lose 3 games this week! I'll even settle for 2!

Go Chaminade!

MChambers
11-21-2016, 01:33 PM
The Silverswords have knocked off a highly ranked ACC team before!

Troublemaker
11-21-2016, 08:08 PM
At halftime, Notre Dame easily handling Colorado (kenpom #50) right now. The Irish are again a very good passing team with multiple shooters.

Based on performance thus far, the only ACC team clearly worse than they were last season is Georgia Tech.

I still believe as more games are played and things shake out further, the following teams will prove to be less than their previous versions: UVA, UNC, Miami, Notre Dame. (Well, actually, odds are I'll probably be wrong about 1 of them -- maybe Notre Dame.) But the thought of 14 out of 15 ACC teams being as good as or improved on last season is interesting.

PackMan97
11-21-2016, 08:56 PM
So, it's possible that the cheaters lose 3 games this week! I'll even settle for 2!

Hope springs eternal.

JasonEvans
11-21-2016, 09:36 PM
I think the Cheaters in Maui is one of the big storylines of the week.

They pretty much get a pass until the finals (UConn has been struggling and Okie State isn't that much of a threat), where they should meet Oregon or Wisconsin. The story out of Eugene is the Brooks, who has been out so far with a preseason foot injury) will return to action for limited minutes in today's opener.

Well so much for Carolina potentially facing what is supposed to be a very good Oregon team. The Ducks laid an egg in the first half against Georgetown and found themselves down 38-21. They fought back and actually tied the game at one point in the second half, but GTown pulled away again and held on to win 65-61. So, the best team Carolina can play in the vaunted Maui Invitational is 16th ranked Wisconsin.

Meanwhile, Notre Dame's 89-83 win over Colorado is worth noting because the Buffs probably are hoping to be a bubble team and any time you can get a win over a bubble team it is good. If nothing else, they are likely to be a top 100 team in the RPI and other advanced metrics so this is a good game to win for Notre Dame.

Ummm, has anyone noticed what Bonzie Colson is doing so far? He put up 22 points on 13 shots to go with 13 boards today. He's now averaging 19.3 ppg (on an average of just 12 shots per game) and 8 rpg as well as 2 blocks per game. He's shooting a sweet 92.3% fro the free throw line too. Of course, there is no way to know if he can keep this up, but he wasn't on anyone's All-ACC short list a couple weeks ago... and he sure is now.

-Jason "how is Bonzie Colson only a junior? I swear he has been there for 6 seasons already" Evans

dukelifer
11-23-2016, 09:24 AM
Hope springs eternal.

UNC is scoring a ton of points in their games this year. They will be tough team going forward. Could be one of those years in the ACC.

Troublemaker
11-23-2016, 10:56 AM
So, the best team Carolina can play in the vaunted Maui Invitational is 16th ranked Wisconsin.

#8 Kenpom, though. I'm expecting a very good game tonight. Berry vs Koenig will be a great individual matchup. WI's Happ and Hayes vs Carolina's bigs as well.

DukieTiger
11-23-2016, 11:17 AM
#8 Kenpom, though. I'm expecting a very good game tonight. Berry vs Koenig will be a great individual matchup. WI's Happ and Hayes vs Carolina's bigs as well.

I'm still not convinced by Wisconsin - KenPom perpetually overrates them and acknowledges as much. So far this year they have lost to Creighton on the road and beaten a hot-and-cold Georgetown team. I'm expecting UNC to roll.


UNC is scoring a ton of points in their games this year. They will be tough team going forward. Could be one of those years in the ACC.

They are, but they really haven't played anyone yet. The level of competition steps up significantly from here, so we'll see how it goes. Their statistical profile so far suggests that they'll come back down to earth. (They're rebounding half of their own misses!) Not to say they're not going to be a very tough out, though.

Newton_14
11-23-2016, 11:30 AM
I'm still not convinced by Wisconsin - KenPom perpetually overrates them and acknowledges as much. So far this year they have lost to Creighton on the road and beaten a hot-and-cold Georgetown team. I'm expecting UNC to roll.



They are, but they really haven't played anyone yet. The level of competition steps up significantly from here, so we'll see how it goes. Their statistical profile so far suggests that they'll come back down to earth. (They're rebounding half of their own misses!) Not to say they're not going to be a very tough out, though.

This and I will add they are heavy on upperclassmen who have played tons of games together. So it should come as no surprise that they are closer to 100% as a team, coming out of the gate, than are most teams, and combine that with cupcake city schedule and it equates to blowouts. Reminds me of what Duke team's of yore used to do, and many pundits/critics would point out that Duke was "peaking in November, and they would not get much better over the course of the season, whereas other teams would improve a lot over the course of the season and be better than Duke in March"

I think that story fits the cheats this season. They are playing better than a lot of teams right now but their ceiling is not as high as other teams, including Duke who projects to be much better come March provided we get all 3 of our injured freshman back and don't end up losing other key players to injury.

The Kentucky/uncCheat game in December will be a better measure on whether the current high ranking for them is accurate or not.

DukieTiger
11-23-2016, 11:44 AM
This and I will add they are heavy on upperclassmen who have played tons of games together. So it should come as no surprise that they are closer to 100% as a team, coming out of the gate, than are most teams, and combine that with cupcake city schedule and it equates to blowouts. Reminds me of what Duke team's of yore used to do, and many pundits/critics would point out that Duke was "peaking in November, and they would not get much better over the course of the season, whereas other teams would improve a lot over the course of the season and be better than Duke in March"

I think that story fits the cheats this season. They are playing better than a lot of teams right now but their ceiling is not as high as other teams, including Duke who projects to be much better come March provided we get all 3 of our injured freshman back and don't end up losing other key players to injury.

The Kentucky/uncCheat game in December will be a better measure on whether the current high ranking for them is accurate or not.

One more thing to add about Cheater Hill peaking right now:

Joel Berry and Justin Jackson have offensive ratings (in KenPom) upwards of 140. That's ridiculous. They've played really well! It's helpful to juxtapose them to Duke's fortunes so far this year, where Grayson and Amile both have Offensive Ratings under 105. Both guys should reasonably be expected to put up ridiculously efficient numbers once they get healthy (Grayson) or settle back into competitive action (Amile). Both have had seasons where they've topped 120 or 125.

All that to say, Duke's going to get a MAJOR injection of talent and their current players are likely to "regress" to the mean in a good way. I don't think anyone on Duke's roster is putting up efficiency numbers that aren't sustainable, and Grayson/Amile will get on track. So as Newton said, the best days are ahead for a team like Duke; while we could reasonably expect a wee bit of true regression to the mean from the Heels.

sagegrouse
11-23-2016, 12:09 PM
One more thing to add about Cheater Hill peaking right now:

Joel Berry and Justin Jackson have offensive ratings (in KenPom) upwards of 140. That's ridiculous. They've played really well! It's helpful to juxtapose them to Duke's fortunes so far this year, where Grayson and Amile both have Offensive Ratings under 105. Both guys should reasonably be expected to put up ridiculously efficient numbers once they get healthy (Grayson) or settle back into competitive action (Amile). Both have had seasons where they've topped 120 or 125.

All that to say, Duke's going to get a MAJOR injection of talent and their current players are likely to "regress" to the mean in a good way. I don't think anyone on Duke's roster is putting up efficiency numbers that aren't sustainable, and Grayson/Amile will get on track. So as Newton said, the best days are ahead for a team like Duke; while we could reasonably expect a wee bit of true regression to the mean from the Heels.

I thought UNC played out of its gourd last night against Oklahoma State. I expect to see the Heels come back to earth against Wisconsin in a close game.

Troublemaker
11-23-2016, 12:17 PM
I'm still not convinced by Wisconsin - KenPom perpetually overrates them and acknowledges as much. So far this year they have lost to Creighton on the road and beaten a hot-and-cold Georgetown team. I'm expecting UNC to roll.

If UNC can roll Wiscy, I'll have to upgrade UNC a lot in my mental rankings. Wiscy is a team that should give them trouble. The Badgers will rebound -- they held the Hoyas to *ONE* offensive rebound and overall out-rebounded G'town 50-21 -- which will take away one of UNC's main strengths when they roll teams. The Badgers have a senior high-level PG in Bronson Koenig to control tempo and make plays, and they play great 2-pt defense going back to last season. Wiscy will make them uncomfortable, unlike Okie St, who tried to run and gun with them and got smoked.

left_hook_lacey
11-23-2016, 01:06 PM
If UNC can roll Wiscy, I'll have to upgrade UNC a lot in my mental rankings. Wiscy is a team that should give them trouble. The Badgers will rebound -- they held the Hoyas to *ONE* offensive rebound and overall out-rebounded G'town 50-21 -- which will take away one of UNC's main strengths when they roll teams. The Badgers have a senior high-level PG in Bronson Koenig to control tempo and make plays, and they play great 2-pt defense going back to last season. Wiscy will make them uncomfortable, unlike Okie St, who tried to run and gun with them and got smoked.

Was about to reply to the thread with this exact post before I saw yours. OK State played right into UNC's hands on a night that UNC was playing well already. It was a perfect scenario for UNC. Even the freshman Kenny Williams was hitting shots that some Tar Heel fans have been saying all along he would do. To beat a dead equus, Wisky will slow down the pace, make UNC uncomfortable, and make the Tar Heels beat them in the half-court. I don't know if Wisky has the talent to pull it off, but the odds are it will be a lot closer than the Heels would like coming down the back stretch. I predict a good, close, game that(hopefully) ends with light blue tears.

Olympic Fan
11-23-2016, 01:20 PM
ACC up to 56-8 overall ... 6-5 vs. Power 6 opponents.

Four games today -- only UNC-Wiscy matches Power 6 foes. The ACC also looking for its second Top 25 win in that one.

Bob Green
11-23-2016, 01:25 PM
Even the freshman Kenny Williams was hitting shots that some Tar Heel fans have been saying all along he would do.

Kenny Williams is a sophomore.

rasputin
11-23-2016, 03:28 PM
Kenny Williams is a sophomore.

Oh, he's "passed" enough "classes" to be so classified?

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 03:39 PM
UNC has been playing very well, but they are not even close to playing to their potential. Roy's teams always improve as the season goes along. Pinson and Maye are out, and he's been going 10 deep and getting the freshmen on the floor a lot early in the season to build their confidence and develop additional depth.

This team has excellent balance and talent at every position. They seem to have really good chemistry together and pass/handle the ball really well, whatever lineup he uses. Everybody has "good hands" which is extremely important when you play at a fast pace.

It's a typical Roy team attack and the players are buying in by getting after it on the defensive end deep into the bench.

I've seen every top 5 team except Indiana play at least twice now, and IMO, they are clearly the best team in the country at this point. There is no rest for teams playing the Heels, the opposing team better have depth, because they are putting quick, defensive pressure on the ball with every line up...they wear you out...and they are breaking everybody's defensive ball pressure and attacking the basket to score.

They have strong interior scoring and mid range, and they are taking disciplined 3pt shots and draining a solid percentage. They are very unselfish with the ball, and that's the Carolina Way to play.

Kenny Williams has made the Soph jump. He's making plays all over the court and been impressive. He has good game instincts that can't be taught. He'd really be making noise if he got more time, but Roy plays deep early in the season.

Freshman big Tony Bradley is the real deal and fits Roy's playing style perfectly. He's playing like the ACC ROY.

Jackson has been all over the floor and at quick 6'8 with those long arms, he's proving to be a matchup nightmare for teams on both ends of the floor..

Berry is leading by example and has put his stamp of toughness on this team. He's a NPOY candidate. They will never be accused of playing "physical" basketball, but you won't see a "soft" label attached to this team. They are "gritty".

I could keep going on and on, but you get the drift. UNC is a title contender again this year and as a UNC fan I am excited about their start.

DukieTiger
11-23-2016, 03:59 PM
UNC has been playing very well, but they are not even close to playing to their potential. Roy's teams always improve as the season goes along. Pinson and Maye are out, and he's been going 10 deep and getting the freshmen on the floor a lot early in the season to build their confidence and develop additional depth.

This team has excellent balance and talent at every position. They seem to have really good chemistry together and pass/handle the ball really well, whatever lineup he uses. Everybody has "good hands" which is extremely important when you play at a fast pace.

It's a typical Roy team attack and the players are buying in by getting after it on the defensive end deep into the bench.

I've seen every top 5 team except Indiana play at least twice now, and IMO, they are clearly the best team in the country at this point. There is no rest for teams playing the Heels, the opposing team better have depth, because they are putting quick, defensive pressure on the ball with every line up...they wear you out...and they are breaking everybody's defensive ball pressure and attacking the basket to score.

They have strong interior scoring and mid range, and they are taking disciplined 3pt shots and draining a solid percentage. They are very unselfish with the ball, and that's the Carolina Way to play.

Kenny Williams has made the Soph jump. He's making plays all over the court and been impressive. He has good game instincts that can't be taught. He'd really be making noise if he got more time, but Roy plays deep early in the season.

Freshman big Tony Bradley is the real deal and fits Roy's playing style perfectly. He's playing like the ACC ROY.

Jackson has been all over the floor and at quick 6'8 with those long arms, he's proving to be a matchup nightmare for teams on both ends of the floor..

Berry is leading by example and has put his stamp of toughness on this team. He's a NPOY candidate. They will never be accused of playing "physical" basketball, but you won't see a "soft" label attached to this team. They are "gritty".

I could keep going on and on, but you get the drift. UNC is a title contender again this year and as a UNC fan I am excited about their start.

You'll forgive us if we wait til the Cheaters play a game against a top-75 team before jumping to any conclusions.

I will say Bradley has played well though. He better be careful, if he keeps playing like that, Roy might have to sit him...

NSDukeFan
11-23-2016, 04:51 PM
UNC has been playing very well, but they are not even close to playing to their potential. Roy's teams always improve as the season goes along. Pinson and Maye are out, and he's been going 10 deep and getting the freshmen on the floor a lot early in the season to build their confidence and develop additional depth.

This team has excellent balance and talent at every position. They seem to have really good chemistry together and pass/handle the ball really well, whatever lineup he uses. Everybody has "good hands" which is extremely important when you play at a fast pace.

It's a typical Roy team attack and the players are buying in by getting after it on the defensive end deep into the bench.

I've seen every top 5 team except Indiana play at least twice now, and IMO, they are clearly the best team in the country at this point. There is no rest for teams playing the Heels, the opposing team better have depth, because they are putting quick, defensive pressure on the ball with every line up...they wear you out...and they are breaking everybody's defensive ball pressure and attacking the basket to score.

They have strong interior scoring and mid range, and they are taking disciplined 3pt shots and draining a solid percentage. They are very unselfish with the ball, and that's the Carolina Way to play.

Kenny Williams has made the Soph jump. He's making plays all over the court and been impressive. He has good game instincts that can't be taught. He'd really be making noise if he got more time, but Roy plays deep early in the season.

Freshman big Tony Bradley is the real deal and fits Roy's playing style perfectly. He's playing like the ACC ROY.

Jackson has been all over the floor and at quick 6'8 with those long arms, he's proving to be a matchup nightmare for teams on both ends of the floor..

Berry is leading by example and has put his stamp of toughness on this team. He's a NPOY candidate. They will never be accused of playing "physical" basketball, but you won't see a "soft" label attached to this team. They are "gritty".

I could keep going on and on, but you get the drift. UNC is a title contender again this year and as a UNC fan I am excited about their start.
I'm not sure you are allowed to use the term "Carolina Way" anymore without alluding to cheating. Other than that, I enjoyed reading about your perspective about UNC this year.

devildeac
11-23-2016, 05:07 PM
ACC up to 56-8 overall ... 6-5 vs. Power 6 opponents.

Four games today -- only UNC-Wiscy matches Power 6 foes. The ACC also looking for its second Top 25 win in that one.

Go Badgers! ABC.

9F, too.

arnie
11-23-2016, 05:11 PM
I'm not sure you are allowed to use the term "Carolina Way" anymore without alluding to cheating. Other than that, I enjoyed reading about your perspective about UNC this year.

"They are clearly the best team in the country". Will certainly agree with Wheat if they beat Wisconsin by 25+ tonite. And using "Carolina Way" is really funny these days since we all know what that means. If his posts are serious, he's truly delusional. I suspect he's trying to be ridiculous.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 05:45 PM
If you haven't seen UNC play, keep an eye on freshman Brandon Robinson when he comes in off the bench. The kid is a skinny 6'5" and long and probably a year away from making a real impact in big games. But I like his game, even tho he is still making mistakes and has some physical maturing to do, he is quick and aggressive,nice shot, and has some intangibles. A 3-4 year kid you guys will love to hate.

OldPhiKap
11-23-2016, 06:51 PM
UNC has been playing very well, but they are not even close to playing to their potential. Roy's teams always improve as the season goes along. Pinson and Maye are out, and he's been going 10 deep and getting the freshmen on the floor a lot early in the season to build their confidence and develop additional depth.

This team has excellent balance and talent at every position. They seem to have really good chemistry together and pass/handle the ball really well, whatever lineup he uses. Everybody has "good hands" which is extremely important when you play at a fast pace.

It's a typical Roy team attack and the players are buying in by getting after it on the defensive end deep into the bench.

I've seen every top 5 team except Indiana play at least twice now, and IMO, they are clearly the best team in the country at this point. There is no rest for teams playing the Heels, the opposing team better have depth, because they are putting quick, defensive pressure on the ball with every line up...they wear you out...and they are breaking everybody's defensive ball pressure and attacking the basket to score.

They have strong interior scoring and mid range, and they are taking disciplined 3pt shots and draining a solid percentage. They are very unselfish with the ball, and that's the Carolina Way to play.

Kenny Williams has made the Soph jump. He's making plays all over the court and been impressive. He has good game instincts that can't be taught. He'd really be making noise if he got more time, but Roy plays deep early in the season.

Freshman big Tony Bradley is the real deal and fits Roy's playing style perfectly. He's playing like the ACC ROY.

Jackson has been all over the floor and at quick 6'8 with those long arms, he's proving to be a matchup nightmare for teams on both ends of the floor..

Berry is leading by example and has put his stamp of toughness on this team. He's a NPOY candidate. They will never be accused of playing "physical" basketball, but you won't see a "soft" label attached to this team. They are "gritty".

I could keep going on and on, but you get the drift. UNC is a title contender again this year and as a UNC fan I am excited about their start.

I think this post is pretty spot on. But you do realize you're just setting the bait with that phrase these days, right?

UNC is a very talented and dangerous team. Certainly a legit FF contender.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 07:32 PM
I think this post is pretty spot on. But you do realize you're just setting the bait with that phrase these days, right?

UNC is a very talented and dangerous team. Certainly a legit FF contender.

Yea, well whatever...I guess. I can't worry about what Duke fans think about the "Carolina Way".

I used it in the sense that I grew up with concerning team first, selfless basketball as it applies to this team.

flyingdutchdevil
11-23-2016, 08:01 PM
Yea, well whatever...I guess. I can't worry about what Duke fans think about the "Carolina Way".

I used it in the sense that I grew up with concerning team first, selfless basketball as it applies to this team.

Yet you choose to post continuously on a Duke forum. Man, I do love denial. Or is that hypocrisy? Whatever it is, it makes me laugh.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 09:11 PM
Yet you choose to post continuously on a Duke forum. Man, I do love denial. Or is that hypocrisy? Whatever it is, it makes me laugh.

I post here, like I have since '98 or so, to try and discuss college basketball and mainly the two teams,(UNC and Duke) that I enjoy watching with other knowledgeable fans.

These days I have to wade through and ignore more and more non basketball related crap than ever, before I see a post that talks hoops.

It's a shame.

OldPhiKap
11-23-2016, 09:15 PM
I post here, like I have since '98 or so, to try and discuss college basketball and mainly the two teams,(UNC and Duke) that I enjoy watching with other knowledgeable fans.

These days I have to wade through and ignore more and more non basketball related crap than ever, before I see a post that talks hoops.

It's a shame.

Well, we try to either mark that with "FB" for a football thread, or "NCAA investigation" for things that obviously do not apply to any local neighboring conference men's basketball team.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 09:22 PM
Well, we try to either mark that with "FB" for a football thread, or "NCAA investigation" for things that obviously do not apply to any local neighboring conference men's basketball team.

I'm talking about replies to my basketball related posts...

DukieTiger
11-23-2016, 09:27 PM
I'm talking about replies to my basketball related posts...

So you're saying you're only here for the Hoops and can't be bothered by any talk of academics?

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 09:29 PM
So you're saying you're only here for the Hoops and can't be bothered by any talk of academics?

Yes. Thank you.

TKG
11-23-2016, 09:33 PM
"Carolina Way" still refers to team first. In fact, it's team above everything; including academic integrity.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-23-2016, 09:38 PM
Just saw this quote from Jay Bilas on Twitter...

"Carolina is the best, most complete team I've seen. Right now, I'd have the Heels at No. 1.
12:59 PM - 23 Nov 2016

Great minds think alike🙂

TKG
11-23-2016, 09:40 PM
Just saw this quote from Jay Bilas on Twitter...

"Carolina is the best, most complete team I've seen. Right now, I'd have the Heels at No. 1.
12:59 PM - 23 Nov 2016

Great minds think alike🙂

Nice to see that Jay is in mid-season form........

jv001
11-23-2016, 10:01 PM
I remember the term the Carolina way and at that time I thought it really meant something. Even though I didn't like the heels. But now we have all learned what the real meaning of the Carolina way is. Years of cheating to keep players eligible in many sports. While this team looks to be good, I can't take them seriously, because we don't know if they can even spell their own names. I also remember this cheer from years ago, "you had to cheat us to beat us, doggone right". GoDuke!

devildeac
11-23-2016, 10:17 PM
Just saw this quote from Jay Bilas on Twitter...

"Carolina is the best, most complete team I've seen. Right now, I'd have the Heels at No. 1.
12:59 PM - 23 Nov 2016

Great minds think alike🙂


Nice to see that Jay is in mid-season form....

Yea, next thing you know Jay won't be talking about the non-academic/non-athletic/non-scandal at the non-rival university down 15-501. :rolleyes:

Olympic Fan
11-24-2016, 12:10 AM
Not too interested in the Cheats -- not hard to win when you run the most corrupt academic program in college sports.

But Louisville came back to win in OT, giving the ACC a 4-0 night ...

Troublemaker
11-24-2016, 12:43 AM
I'm still not convinced by Wisconsin - KenPom perpetually overrates them and acknowledges as much. So far this year they have lost to Creighton on the road and beaten a hot-and-cold Georgetown team. I'm expecting UNC to roll.



I've seen every top 5 team except Indiana play at least twice now, and IMO, [UNC is] clearly the best team in the country at this point.

Having watched today's Maui Final, I think you guys are both right about your respective points. UNC probably is playing as well or better than anyone in the country right now, but it should be noted that there are plenty of teams with high ceilings out there that will improve as the season progresses. As for Wisconsin, DukieTiger was right about them being overrated. Their offense is horrible; during the competitive portion of the game, they just could not hit open shots AND they could not stop turning the ball over with travels and poor passes. While I've given UNC plenty of respect with this post, those offensive wounds by Wisconsin were mostly self-inflicted. The Badgers actually started the game playing great defense, keeping UNC off the offensive boards, and controlling the tempo in transition. But you have to score. Bottom line, you have to score. It was 29-20 UNC at the half, and because Wiscy's offense didn't improve in the second half, their defense and rebounding began to deteriorate. Basketball is very complementary. If your offense sucks, eventually your defense will, too. It just takes a psychological toll to miss shots and make turnovers, and eventually you can't give the same effort on D.

Disappointing. Maui's my favorite preseason tourney, and I was hoping for a good, competitive final.

All that said, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 08:13 AM
FWIW I agree with Jay.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-24-2016, 09:31 AM
That was an ugly UNC/Wisconsin game last night which is what you can expect from time to time.

Both teams came out strong defensively and both were tight on offense early. There were a lot of forced shots and drives, both ways. Not much flow in this game and we can credit both team's defense for that.

I thought UNC's ball pressure got to Wisky's legs in the second half and UNC got the increased pace they wanted to extend the lead.

Jackson had a poor first half and Britt had a poor game overall off the bench. Kenny Williams played some solid defense all game but never found his offense in this one. I like how he didn't try to force it and get frustrated like so many players will do when a defense just takes away what you want to see. He is playing some mature basketball for a sophomore.

The game was won offensively in the paint and with inspired defensive intensity on the wings.

Happy Thanksgiving to all! Celebrate....some great college games are on the way!

JasonEvans
11-24-2016, 11:41 AM
Wheat,

You know I am one of your great defenders here. when others cry "troll" I point out that you are merely providing a Carolina perspective and that we should value any Carolina fan brave enough to post here and not violate the civility rules, which you never do. So, when I call you out, please know that it comes from a place of deep respect.

Everyone knows there are many aspects to "The Carolina Way." Team first is certainly one of them. But, for decades "the Carolina Way" also meant not ignoring academics in favor of athletics. As mentioned in this review of Dean Smith's book (http://www.championshipcoachesnetwork.com/public/315.cfm) titled, "The Carolina Way":


Former player Scott Williams on Coach Smith: Winning was very important at Carolina, and there was much pressure to win, but Coach cared more about our getting a sound education and turning into good citizens than he did about winning. (p. 159)

There is no question that at some point Carolina forgot that part of the Carolina Way. By the time Roy arrived to coach and was on his way to tremendous success in the mid-2000s, athletics was all that mattered and academics was something held in disdain. I have no doubt that scores, perhaps hundreds of athletes came to Carolina and didn't get even a little bit of an education. That is shameful and a stain upon the Carolina Way that Dean stood for for so many years.

I'm not sure if you are trying to revise history a bit and say that the Carolina Way stood for other things but not academics, but Dean's own book says something different. He knew what he wanted from his student-athletes... but Carolina forgot that when it made winning the most important thing. That is a pity and the stain of it may never be forgotten.

By the way, Wheat and I have agreed upon a wager regarding the play of Isaah Hicks this season. Wheat says he will make one of the 3 All-ACC teams. I say he won't. The loser has to ship 2 pies (https://shop.gtpie.com/category/fruit_pies) to the winner. Some of you may recall about 20 yeas ago that Wheat and I had a wager on the success of UNC's Brian Bersticker. When Bersticker wasn't as good as Wheat expected, he shipped me a Key Lime Pie that he had dyed Carolina blue. I can still taste the victory ;)

-Jason "I will admit that UNC is playing excellent basketball right now -- hardly surprising for an experienced and talented team early in the season. Good for the ACC!" Evans

jipops
11-24-2016, 07:37 PM
I haven't watched a single minute of the cheating bums, and I won't until the first Duke game. But I feel like I'm well aware of who they have. Roy has this uncanny ability to put teams together with very talented players who don't quite have the upside to make an early jump. So his teams are almost always experienced, balanced, deep, and very talented. Roy is very, very rarely put into a position where he has to compensate for personnel weaknesses.

So based on statistics, scores, and team makeup I'll buy that the cheats are the top team in the country. Unfortunately it's looking less and less likely that Duke will reach its full potential in challenging them. We may be the only team that can. It's a long season though, we'll see what plays out.

jipops
11-24-2016, 07:49 PM
Yea, well whatever...I guess. I can't worry about what Duke fans think about the "Carolina Way".

I used it in the sense that I grew up with concerning team first, selfless basketball as it applies to this team.

Ha!

Yea, I grew up here in NC always hearing that stuff too. As if the heels were the ONLY team in existence that played "team" ball so it was exclusive to them. Hence your use of that phrase. It's one of the many reasons I have despised them since.

Olympic Fan
11-24-2016, 08:22 PM
If we can stop obsessing about the Cheats, today was a very interesting day for four ACC teams.

Three won -- including an impressive victory by Louisville over Wichita State. It was a nice bounceback after struggling past ODU Wednesday night.

Miami overcame a slow start to beat Stanford going away.

And Virginia Tech dominated New Mexico in the first round of the Wooden Legacy.

Florida State choked away an 18 point lead against Temple. Thy led by double digits for almost two-thirds of the game. But Temple came back and FSU lost in heartbreaking fashion. Down one with 4.6 seconds left, the Noles inbounds to the 6-10 freshman Isaac, who's alone under the Temple basket. But going up for the easy game-winner, he lost the handle on the ball.

Eight games Friday, including some big ones - especially Louisville-Baylor in the Atlantis championship game. Baylor might have the nation's best resume at this moment -- 6-0 with wins over Oregon, Michigan State (in a blowout) and VCU. We also get Miami-Iowa State; Virginia Tech-Texas A&M, FSU-Illinois and Virginia-Iowa (and BC-Kanas State).

Interesting note about Virginia -- they recently became the first team in ACC history to hold three straight opponents to under 40 points. Two of the three victims were dogs (St. Francis and Grambling). Yale was pretty good. Even so, the first time in ACC history ... that's impressive.

OldPhiKap
11-24-2016, 08:30 PM
Ha!

Yea, I grew up here in NC always hearing that stuff too. As if the heels were the ONLY team in existence that played "team" ball so it was exclusive to them. Hence your use of that phrase. It's one of the many reasons I have despised them since.

Exactly.

UNC actually did stand for something once. But it sold its soul to get better sports results, regardless of the academic cost. As a result, "The Carolina Way" is now a pathetic, hollow and delusional punchline. I have more respect for the dump I took this morning than I do for "The Carolina Way" at this point, and frankly it was pretty disagreeable dump as it was. "The Carolina Way" is eighteen years of fake classes; Roy bringing his own lap dog from Kansas to perpetuate and expand the fraud; and a massive holier-than-thou cover-up full of self-righteous and sanctimonious blowhardery that should shame even the most self-delusional knuckle-dragger in baby blue that one could find face-planted on Franklin Street.

I am very thankful this Holiday. Thankful that I am not forced to defend the rancid dungheap that was once a proud institution on the south end of 15-501.

Dean knew. Gut knew. Doh knew. Roy knew. It is insulting frankly to assert otherwise.

Burn in Hell, Carolina. I hope the NCAA comes down on you like vultures on a turkey carcas.


Now Ma, pass the cornbread stuffing. I need some seconds. Let me tell you my views on the elections . . . .

jv001
11-24-2016, 08:33 PM
Exactly.

UNC actually did stand for something once. But it sold its soul to get better sports results, regardless of the academic cost. As a result, "The Carolina Way" is now a pathetic, hollow and delusional punchline. I have more respect for the dump I took this morning than I do for "The Carolina Way" at this point, and frankly it was pretty disagreeable dump as it was. "The Carolina Way" is eighteen years of fake classes; Roy bringing his own lap dog from Kansas to perpetuate and expand the fraud; and a massive holier-than-thou cover-up full of self-righteous and sanctimonious blowhardery that should shame even the most self-delusional knuckle-dragger in baby blue that one could find face-planted on Franklin Street.

I am very thankful this Holiday. Thankful that I am not forced to defend the rancid dungheap that was once a proud institution on the south end of 15-501.

Dean knew. Gut knew. Doh knew. Roy knew. It is insulting frankly to assert otherwise.

Burn in Hell, Carolina. I hope the NCAA comes down on you like vultures on a turkey carcas.


Now Ma, pass the cornbread stuffing. I need some seconds.

Oh how I wanted to give you sporks, but alas I must spread them around. Here's a big "GoDuke!!!!

Newton_14
11-24-2016, 09:47 PM
Exactly.

UNC actually did stand for something once. But it sold its soul to get better sports results, regardless of the academic cost. As a result, "The Carolina Way" is now a pathetic, hollow and delusional punchline. I have more respect for the dump I took this morning than I do for "The Carolina Way" at this point, and frankly it was pretty disagreeable dump as it was. "The Carolina Way" is eighteen years of fake classes; Roy bringing his own lap dog from Kansas to perpetuate and expand the fraud; and a massive holier-than-thou cover-up full of self-righteous and sanctimonious blowhardery that should shame even the most self-delusional knuckle-dragger in baby blue that one could find face-planted on Franklin Street.

I am very thankful this Holiday. Thankful that I am not forced to defend the rancid dungheap that was once a proud institution on the south end of 15-501.

Dean knew. Gut knew. Doh knew. Roy knew. It is insulting frankly to assert otherwise.

Burn in Hell, Carolina. I hope the NCAA comes down on you like vultures on a turkey carcas.


Now Ma, pass the cornbread stuffing. I need some seconds. Let me tell you my views on the elections . . . .

Preach on brother. I honestly can't believe anyone, uncCheat fan or not, would come here and actually use that bs phrase in a post. It's embarrassing. I am amazed at all the cheat fans that are oh so willing to write off 20+ years of blatant, University controlled cheating, and not just cheating, but organized fake curriculums, fake classes, and fake grades handed out by a fan-whore secretary. Take the lame "everybody does it", and the lamer "Carolina Way" and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. The 05 and 09 titles are shams off the backs of ineligible rosters. Not players, rosters. They can all go jump as far as I am concerned.

tbyers11
11-25-2016, 12:57 PM
Watching Miami for the first time this morning against Iowa St and they don't look too impressive. They are down 68-52 with 2:33 min left as I type.

The Canes lost a lot of key personnel from last year's team but look a bit lost on D today and have nothing in the middle outside of Kamari Murphy. Reed and Newton have been solid, but freshmen stud Bruce Brown has been largely non-existent.

Iowa St also lost a bunch from last year but have a few more key players back in Burton, Thomas, Morris and Long. I would think Iowa St might be favored but both KenPom and Vegas had Miami as 3 pt favorites.

Interesting to see how the Canes develop

BD80
11-25-2016, 02:48 PM
Wheat,

You know I am one of your great defenders here. when others cry "troll" I point out that you are merely providing a Carolina perspective and that we should value any Carolina fan brave enough to post here and not violate the civility rules, which you never do. So, when I call you out, please know that it comes from a place of deep respect.

Everyone knows there are many aspects to "The Carolina Way." ...

Is this one?

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/watch-as-nc-state-and-north-carolina-benches-clear-over-an-incomplete-pass/

Olympic Fan
11-25-2016, 07:58 PM
What's with ACC teams and their inability to protect big leads?

Florida State blew an 18-point lead in a loss to Temple Thursday.

Virginia Tech choked away a 14-point halftime lead vs. Texas A&M today.

And, worst of all, Louisville was up 24 points early, led by double digits almost the whole way and lost to Baylor in the final seconds.

Virginia is up 20 on Iowa at the half, so I assume they are doomed too.

Wahoo2000
11-25-2016, 09:20 PM
Interesting note about Virginia -- they recently became the first team in ACC history to hold three straight opponents to under 40 points. Two of the three victims were dogs (St. Francis and Grambling). Yale was pretty good. Even so, the first time in ACC history ... that's impressive.

Aaaannddd.... that streak ended as we gave up a whopping 41 to Iowa today (who I believe was averaging over 90 coming in).

I'm not prone to hyperbole or jumping the gun with my team, and bearing that in mind, I'm telling you this is the best we've looked as a TEAM defensively this early in the season. Even better than the team 2 years ago that held Harvard to like 27 points for a game. I have no idea if we'll show the same improvement as previous teams from Dec to March, but if we do...... yikes. Our issues will ultimately be (I think) interior scoring and rebounding when we play the elite teams with NBA caliber frontcourts. Salt/Reuter are coached up enough to dominate vs fringe top 50 teams, and play well against top 10-25 teams, but when they run into a Duke (when healthy), Kentucky, etc frontcourt..... they're going to have issues.

Still, it helps if you're giving up less than 40ppg (which will rise for sure as we play better competition, but is also SLIGHTLY inflated by the amount of garbage time where we're giving up about 30% more points per posession).

Newton_14
11-25-2016, 10:17 PM
What's with ACC teams and their inability to protect big leads?

Florida State blew an 18-point lead in a loss to Temple Thursday.

Virginia Tech choked away a 14-point halftime lead vs. Texas A&M today.

And, worst of all, Louisville was up 24 points early, led by double digits almost the whole way and lost to Baylor in the final seconds.

Virginia is up 20 on Iowa at the half, so I assume they are doomed too.

Wow that's nuts. The biggest comeback I remember in College Hoops was a Rick Pitino UK team down 30 at LSU, and came back and won. I guess Louisville tried hard today to match LSU for that honor. Geez!

So 0-3 that should have been 3-0. Not a good day for the league...

dukelifer
11-25-2016, 10:41 PM
Aaaannddd... that streak ended as we gave up a whopping 41 to Iowa today (who I believe was averaging over 90 coming in).

I'm not prone to hyperbole or jumping the gun with my team, and bearing that in mind, I'm telling you this is the best we've looked as a TEAM defensively this early in the season. Even better than the team 2 years ago that held Harvard to like 27 points for a game. I have no idea if we'll show the same improvement as previous teams from Dec to March, but if we do... yikes. Our issues will ultimately be (I think) interior scoring and rebounding when we play the elite teams with NBA caliber frontcourts. Salt/Reuter are coached up enough to dominate vs fringe top 50 teams, and play well against top 10-25 teams, but when they run into a Duke (when healthy), Kentucky, etc frontcourt.... they're going to have issues.

Still, it helps if you're giving up less than 40ppg (which will rise for sure as we play better competition, but is also SLIGHTLY inflated by the amount of garbage time where we're giving up about 30% more points per posession).
UVA playing some voodoo defense. Crazy good.

UrinalCake
11-25-2016, 10:48 PM
I've seen every top 5 team except Indiana play at least twice now, and IMO, they are clearly the best team in the country at this point.

Curious what you think about Baylor. I admittedly haven't watched much non-Duke basketball, but they have arguably the most impressive resume of any team at this early point in the season, with wins over Oregon, MSU, and (as of today) Louisville. And again I have not seen them play but they are traditionally big, physical, and athletic which is the type of team that could be a tough matchup for UNC (as well as for Duke).

Olympic Fan
11-26-2016, 12:30 AM
Wow that's nuts. The biggest comeback I remember in College Hoops was a Rick Pitino UK team down 30 at LSU, and came back and won. I guess Louisville tried hard today to match LSU for that honor. Geez!

So 0-3 that should have been 3-0. Not a good day for the league...

That's the second greatest comeback in Division 1 history.

The greatest was Duke's comeback from a 32-point second deficit to beat Tulane in the consolation game of the Dixie Classic, back when Dick Groat was the Devils' star.

I agree that Friday was not a great day for the league ... still it was a 4-4 day with Miami losing to Iowa State, Louisville losing to Baylor, Virginia Tech losing to Texas A&M and BC losing to Kansas State ... FSU beat Illinois, Clemson beat High Point, Pitt beat Morehead State and Virginia routed Iowa.

Funny -- the ACC foes 0-3 vs. the Big 12, but 2-0 vs. the Big Ten. Good warmup for next week's challenge.

Six games Saturday -- Syracuse-South Carolina is probably the best matchup.

Newton_14
11-26-2016, 07:59 AM
That's the second greatest comeback in Division 1 history.

The greatest was Duke's comeback from a 32-point second deficit to beat Tulane in the consolation game of the Dixie Classic, back when Dick Groat was the Devils' star.

I agree that Friday was not a great day for the league ... still it was a 4-4 day with Miami losing to Iowa State, Louisville losing to Baylor, Virginia Tech losing to Texas A&M and BC losing to Kansas State ... FSU beat Illinois, Clemson beat High Point, Pitt beat Morehead State and Virginia routed Iowa.

Funny -- the ACC foes 0-3 vs. the Big 12, but 2-0 vs. the Big Ten. Good warmup for next week's challenge.

Six games Saturday -- Syracuse-South Carolina is probably the best matchup.

Thanks Oly! I had no idea Duke held the record for biggest comeback. In an age with no 3-Point Line or Shot-Clock no less! That's crazy impressive! I believe our comeback against Maryland in the FF was the biggest comeback in that event and if so we hold the record for biggest comebacks in Regular Season and NCAA Tourney. Again, impressive factoid in my humble opinion!

Wheat/"/"/"
11-26-2016, 10:43 AM
Curious what you think about Baylor. I admittedly haven't watched much non-Duke basketball, but they have arguably the most impressive resume of any team at this early point in the season, with wins over Oregon, MSU, and (as of today) Louisville. And again I have not seen them play but they are traditionally big, physical, and athletic which is the type of team that could be a tough matchup for UNC (as well as for Duke).

I went back to watchESPN replay this AM and watched the Louisville game. Baylor looks like they have for the past few years...long, bouncy and big inside and average on the wings. They are good but not elite.

They have some athletic big guys that will overpower most teams in the paint offensively and on the boards. They will also block a lot of shots. Early in the season that's enough to get good wins. It gets tougher as teams play better later in the season,counting on their size/athletic advantage will not be enough, they will have to execute and exploit advantages at some point and there are better defensive teams out there that I think will keep them from doing that. Pitino got away from doing that for some reason in that game.

I didn't see much crisp ball movement, or defensive pressure on the ball from the guards/wings. And I also didn't see great hands from them, and I always watch how teams catch passes and move the ball around. The better teams can catch and release a pass, the quicker they can play to break a defense down. They fumbled a lot of catches that weren't that difficult when they were sped up. That will hurt them against teams that apply defensive aggression on the ball.

I think their weakness at guard play will be exposed when they play teams that can at least match up with their inside game and have stronger guards.

Louisville fell apart in that game. They have a team with equal size and more balance in and out than Baylor. I thought they played the better game overall but lacked discipline to close it out. You gotta play the game with your head too. They settled for contested jumpers when things got tight and lost focus on the defensive side. Pitino needs to find a on court leader to settle them down, nobody did that on the floor. (Pitino missed that boat too in this one).

Baylor is a good team. Probably have enough talent to beat anyone on a given night. But I've seen this movie before with this sort of team. They can win some big games, but they are an "all airport" team as we used to call them...They look great in the airport and less so on the court most days��

My two cents...