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dudog84
11-20-2016, 06:00 PM
Well, the game's been over for an hour and it seems nobody wants to talk about it. Unless I hear that the entire team had the flu, I'm not sure I want to watch any more of this. From what I can tell, Vandy has had two (2) top-40 recruits in the past 4 years. This should not have been a contest.

I'm no basketball coach, so can somebody please explain why with under a minute to play, you call a timeout before your opponent's 2nd free throw...and then call your LAST timeout 5 seconds later as your point guard brings the ball across half court.

dukelifer
11-20-2016, 06:21 PM
Well, the game's been over for an hour and it seems nobody wants to talk about it. Unless I hear that the entire team had the flu, I'm not sure I want to watch any more of this. From what I can tell, Vandy has had two (2) top-40 recruits in the past 4 years. This should not have been a contest.

I'm no basketball coach, so can somebody please explain why with under a minute to play, you call a timeout before your opponent's 2nd free throw...and then call your LAST timeout 5 seconds later as your point guard brings the ball across half court.

An unranked team losing to another unranked team in a power conference on the road. Not sure why this is a guaranteed mismatch.

MCFinARL
11-20-2016, 07:28 PM
An unranked team losing to another unranked team in a power conference on the road. Not sure why this is a guaranteed mismatch.

Because Duke. ;)

Seriously, you make a good point. I think it will take us a while to adjust to the current level of expectations for duke women's basketball after so many years of top 10 teams. I think this year's team has some promise, but it may take them a while to put everything together--and without Azure Stevens it is probably unreasonable to expect too much, even with the addition of the talented Lexie Brown. If the team is reasonably competitive in the ACC and can return to the NCAA tournament field, that might be a reasonable level of accomplishment for this year--at least it would be an upward trajectory.

dukelifer
11-20-2016, 08:29 PM
Because Duke. ;)

Seriously, you make a good point. I think it will take us a while to adjust to the current level of expectations for duke women's basketball after so many years of top 10 teams. I think this year's team has some promise, but it may take them a while to put everything together--and without Azure Stevens it is probably unreasonable to expect too much, even with the addition of the talented Lexie Brown. If the team is reasonably competitive in the ACC and can return to the NCAA tournament field, that might be a reasonable level of accomplishment for this year--at least it would be an upward trajectory.

I think they will get better- but the margin for error is tiny.

Kedsy
11-21-2016, 12:15 AM
Well, the game's been over for an hour and it seems nobody wants to talk about it. Unless I hear that the entire team had the flu, I'm not sure I want to watch any more of this. From what I can tell, Vandy has had two (2) top-40 recruits in the past 4 years. This should not have been a contest.

A tough loss, but Duke fought until the end. Vanderbilt's gym is notoriously difficult to play in. I'm certainly not feeling the kneejerk negativity that you seem to have.

We have the pieces. I agree with dukelifer on this.

aswewere
11-21-2016, 07:39 AM
Well, the game's been over for an hour and it seems nobody wants to talk about it. Unless I hear that the entire team had the flu, I'm not sure I want to watch any more of this. From what I can tell, Vandy has had two (2) top-40 recruits in the past 4 years. This should not have been a contest.

I'm no basketball coach, so can somebody please explain why with under a minute to play, you call a timeout before your opponent's 2nd free throw...and then call your LAST timeout 5 seconds later as your point guard brings the ball across half court.

If we had two or three more Mc Donald's big Mack's that should have been enough.

CameronBornAndBred
11-21-2016, 08:10 AM
A tough loss, but Duke fought until the end. Vanderbilt's gym is notoriously difficult to play in. I'm certainly not feeling the kneejerk negativity that you seem to have.

We have the pieces. I agree with dukelifer on this.

I watched most of the game. We were out rebounded, fouled too often, missed too many layups (a constant year in and out), and turned the ball over too much. The gym didn't appear to be the reason for any of those issues.
Not trying to be negative, but it wasn't a good game to see. (Except for the first quarter when we had the lead.) On paper, and with the recruited talent that we have compared to theirs, this should not have been close, and definitely not a defeat. Our three point shooting was abysmal, and our efforts at the line need improvement. But...it's early in the season with lots left to play. Time will tell, LGD!

PS..one bright note, I did like our fight at the end and the comeback we put on, just needed more of that play the rest of the game.

CameronBornAndBred
11-21-2016, 08:20 AM
This opening from the Chronicle's recap explains things well.


With three seasoned ball handlers, the Blue Devils entered the year hoping to limit turnovers in critical situations.

But in its first formidable test of the season, the giveaways that have plagued Duke the past few years showed up once again.

The Blue Devils fell 77-73 to Vanderbilt at Memorial Gymnasium Sunday afternoon after their late comeback came up short. Duke had a chance to win the game tied 71-71 with a minute left in the game, but a combination of turnovers from sophomore Kyra Lambert and redshirt junior Rebecca Greenwell along with the Blue Devils’ inability to corral defensive boards late sealed their fate.
http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2016/11/vanderbilt-holds-off-duke-womens-basketball-to-deal-blue-devils-first-loss

dudog84
11-21-2016, 06:09 PM
A tough loss, but Duke fought until the end. Vanderbilt's gym is notoriously difficult to play in. I'm certainly not feeling the kneejerk negativity that you seem to have.

We have the pieces. I agree with dukelifer on this.

I don't expect anyone to remember posts from many months ago, but I have been one of the staunchest defenders of this program and coach over the last few years. It led to some entertaining back-and-forth with some others who, shall we say, were anxious for change.

Here is a list of players whose recruiting rating were higher than ANY Vandy player:

Lexie Brown
Leaonna Odom
Kyra Lambert
Kendall Cooper
Oderah Chidom
Rebecca Greenwell
Lynee Belton

Lexie was a 3rd team All-American two years ago for pete's sake. Another comment than any Power 5 program can compete by virtue of being in such a conference is laughable. I'm sure that gives hope to Kansas football, Boston College basketball, etc. etc.

I'm not calling for anybody's head. I came into this season excited to see the nay-sayers (unranked, picked 6th in ACC) proven wrong because I think we have top-15, maybe (maybe) top-10 talent. Several of the girls have made great strides from last year. Becca looks healthier than ever. Lexie and Leaonna bring skills we haven't seen for a few years. I was really looking forward to this year.

Sure, there's a long way to go yet. But that was a terrible loss. We can't afford those this year.

And I'd like to see more conversation on the team on this site (now that the election is over I need something to do besides the mens team). So I may poke the bear occasionally. Jim Sumner (not the bear), please keep the analysis coming.

dukelifer
11-21-2016, 07:48 PM
I don't expect anyone to remember posts from many months ago, but I have been one of the staunchest defenders of this program and coach over the last few years. It led to some entertaining back-and-forth with some others who, shall we say, were anxious for change.

Here is a list of players whose recruiting rating were higher than ANY Vandy player:

Lexie Brown
Leaonna Odom
Kyra Lambert
Kendall Cooper
Oderah Chidom
Rebecca Greenwell
Lynee Belton

Lexie was a 3rd team All-American two years ago for pete's sake. Another comment than any Power 5 program can compete by virtue of being in such a conference is laughable. I'm sure that gives hope to Kansas football, Boston College basketball, etc. etc.

I'm not calling for anybody's head. I came into this season excited to see the nay-sayers (unranked, picked 6th in ACC) proven wrong because I think we have top-15, maybe (maybe) top-10 talent. Several of the girls have made great strides from last year. Becca looks healthier than ever. Lexie and Leaonna bring skills we haven't seen for a few years. I was really looking forward to this year.

Sure, there's a long way to go yet. But that was a terrible loss. We can't afford those this year.

And I'd like to see more conversation on the team on this site (now that the election is over I need something to do besides the mens team). So I may poke the bear occasionally. Jim Sumner (not the bear), please keep the analysis coming.
Not to beat this into the ground- but in basketball- any power 5 conference team can compete. Last year BC was awful in the ACC but they had a number of close games including a 68-65 loss to UNC. Duke faltered against Vandy but certainly were not overmatched. Football is another sport altogether.

CameronBornAndBred
11-21-2016, 09:09 PM
Not to beat this into the ground- but in basketball- any power 5 conference team can compete. Last year BC was awful in the ACC but they had a number of close games including a 68-65 loss to UNC. Duke faltered against Vandy but certainly were not overmatched. Football is another sport altogether.

Last year, UNC was so bad they finished 3rd from last in the ACC, one place in front of BC.

brevity
11-21-2016, 09:18 PM
I don't expect anyone to remember posts from many months ago, but I have been one of the staunchest defenders of this program and coach over the last few years. It led to some entertaining back-and-forth with some others who, shall we say, were anxious for change.

Oh, I remember.

You say "entertaining," I say "mind-numbingly awful and please kill me in the most painful way possible so I never have to endure it again".

There's one side, there's the other side, and then there's the vast majority of us that barely tolerated the two sides, and wondered if those tired, awful WBB threads on DBR were setting back the entire female gender.

Do not revive old habits.

Kedsy
11-21-2016, 09:22 PM
Last year, UNC was so bad they finished 3rd from last in the ACC, one place in front of BC.

He meant the UNC men's team that played in the NCAA finals, and only beat BC by 3 at BC last season.

tbyers11
11-21-2016, 09:55 PM
Not to beat this into the ground- but in basketball- any power 5 conference team can compete. Last year BC was awful in the ACC but they had a number of close games including a 68-65 loss to UNC. Duke faltered against Vandy but certainly were not overmatched. Football is another sport altogether.

This is the key point that I want to expand on. dudog84 and Jim Sumner, who have much more knowledge on this year's Duke women's team than I do, said we have quite a bit more talent than Vandy and were expected to win the game. It is early in the season and it was road game against a decent team. Losing it is not the end of the world.

However, even with the transfers and turmoil, I don't think we are striving to not be "overmatched" against a borderline NCAA team. This loss will definitely hurt us come tournament selection time.

dudog84
11-22-2016, 08:32 AM
Sorry, my post was a bit much. I have high hopes for this squad. I don't seem to be able to delete the post. Please delete it from your minds. I'll do better.

CameronBornAndBred
11-22-2016, 08:41 AM
Sorry, my post was a bit much. I have high hopes for this squad. I don't seem to be able to delete the post. Please delete it from your minds. I'll do better.

Hardly, your post was valid with facts throughout. Like you, many of us have high hopes for this squad, and we still have a long season in front of us. This was not a good loss to set the tone for what's to come.

But, at times like this, I am reminded of the men getting the snot beaten out of them by Georgetown over a month before we hung #4. The women play again tonight (Old Dominion), assuredly the results will be different. It should be a blowout, and likely will be, but it will be a good game to see if they respond with better shooting and less turnovers after both weighed heavily on our loss to Vandy.

Newton_14
11-22-2016, 08:50 AM
Hardly, your post was valid with facts throughout. Like you, many of us have high hopes for this squad, and we still have a long season in front of us. This was not a good loss to set the tone for what's to come.

But, at times like this, I am reminded of the men getting the snot beaten out of them by Georgetown over a month before we hung #4. The women play again tonight (Old Dominion), assuredly the results will be different. It should be a blowout, and likely will be, but it will be a good game to see if they respond with better shooting and less turnovers after both weighed heavily on our loss to Vandy.

Just to add... over the years, the Men's team has walked into road gyms at the Vatechs, GaTechs, FSU's, UVA's and the likes where those teams had nary a kid ranked higher than the 8th or 9th kid on our roster, and walked out as losers. Upsets happen in college hoops, men's and women's. So to me, this was just one of those type upsets and not cause for hitting the panic button. Let's see where our lady blue devils are 10 games in or so.

Hoping they can develop into a Top 25 team that makes the tournament. Those are the realistic expectations for this team in my humble opinion. (Ducks, and waits for Maryland type bottles and rocks throwing at self head :cool:)

jimsumner
11-22-2016, 03:04 PM
This was not a good loss. Duke should be able to beat Vanderbilt. Bottom line.

The return of too many old bugaboos. Too many turnovers, poor late-game execution.

Duke needs to hit reset button. More winnable games coming up and Duke's NCAA hopes cannot afford any more slippage.