MBB: Duke 75, Rhode Island 65 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[rsvman]

Good, solid win against a tough team. Fundamentals were on point. Kennard and Jefferson were both great.
Tough decisions when the injured freshmen are able to play. Hard to imagine not starting Luke. Good problem to have, I suppose.

[Doria]

Maybe not a perfect 40 minutes of basketball, but I was impressed by our attitude coming into the game and showing resolve to beat a good top-25 RI team. And yeah, I agree with that ESPN analyst who was quoted yesterday as saying that even depleted, we are (I'd add arguably) better that our similarly thin, but less injury-ravaged lineup last year. Will post more thoughts after work! Go Duke!

[OldPhiKap]

Amile is a man.

Luke is a major baller.

Matt, Frank, solid games.

Chase continues his elevated play, like to think this is the new normal. Even if his minutes drop when the freshman three start playing, he will be a solid practice player who only gets better and pushes the new guys.

Grayson is struggling. I hope the floor and responsibility will spread when the three frost get on the floor so he does not have to press as much.

uRI is a good team, and well-coached. This was a nice win for many reasons.

[TKG]

Survive and advance.

[flyingdutchdevil]

If you were to tell me that Duke won two games against solid competition with Grayson being he fifth leading scorer in each game, id laugh in your face.

This team can score. Great effort. Kennard is a stud.

[Saratoga2]

Coach K kept the pace of play slowed down which avoided the fatigue issue and we did well against penetration as well. I thought RI would drive on us and build up our fouls early. great win under tough circumstances.

Jefferson had a terrific game in all phases. Hard to imagine him paired with one of our Freshman stud centers. Double trouble for the opponents.

Kennard picked up his game and was more aggressive in all phases of his offense today. I haven't looked at the stats but he did get quite a few rebounds as well.

Jackson has come a long way for a freshman. He is already playing like an upperclassman and his ceiling is very high.

Having Jones play like a senior is also a big help. Points, defense, smart play.

Allen was clearly limping but gutted it our and added probably 10 points to the mix. I expect him to get healthy in the next couple of weeks and with him hitting on all cylinders, it might be tough to figure out who starts, who rests, etc. Nice problem

While Jeter played, I didn't think he looked like he was back to where he was before the injury. Clearly it is just a matter of resting his ankle sprain, so no big deal.

[sagegrouse]

Grayson did an amazing job today, considering that he couldn't run and couldn't jump, major handicaps for a basketball player.

[KandG]

Now that's a win that makes you proud to root for this team.

Grayson had nothing in terms of explosiveness or any sort of lift. Yet he found ways to be productive, rarely forced the matter, and had some very nice assists and defensive plays even while largely ground-bound. I wonder if the coaching staff will hold him out of a few games to let him recover, or if he just plans to gut it out. He looks 50-60 percent at best right now.

Luke was huge. HUGE. The shot that wasn't falling for him yesterday came back for him today, and Rhode Island never figured him out. Putting the ball in Luke's hands to start the second half established the kind of separation that URI could never overcome.

Amile was the player of the weekend, and for good reason. Even when Hassan Martin was blocking everything in sight (including one of Amile's post moves), Amile found ways to adjust and compensate for Martin's (over) aggressiveness. Grabbing offensive rebounds, making himself available for dump-offs from his teammates, converting reverse layups against Martin's length.

Frank was very up and down, even by the standards of a freshman. His shot wasn't falling this afternoon, so he mainly contributed with strong drives to the hoop, not all of which were successful. He's still figuring out how to change speeds when he plays. He seems to either be going 100mph (the result being some spectacular layups and equally spectacular misses and turnovers). Other times he's processing things so slowly he dribbles into a trap or the offense bogs down. But he made some big plays, and the mistakes will undoubtedly lessen over time.

Matt was very solid on both ends, and his ability to compose the team was big whenever URI went on a run. His handle seems to be tighter this year, so he can dribble the ball against the press and make better decisions with the shot clock running down. Yes, Matt's still limited as a shot creator but I really like the way his game has evolved according to the needs of the team. Made some big shots after missing a bunch early.

Chase playing this afternoon was the biggest shock to me, and he did really well in his limited minutes. I thought he would be totally overpowered by Martin, but he held his own a few times and anchored the defense far better than I would have ever expected when giving Amile a break.

Duke holding their own in rebounding and shooting 6 for 13 on threes after starting 0 for 8 -- against a quick, healthy team that defends the 3 point line well -- was inspiring. The closing minutes where Duke had several hiccups against Rhode Island's press was the only part of the game where they looked less than great, and fatigue likely contributed. Overall, excellent win.

[OldPhiKap]

Grayson did an amazing job today, considering that he couldn't run and couldn't jump, major handicaps for a basketball player.

True. I can't run or jump, and my game stinks.

Grayson is a warrior. He needs some rest.

[bluenorth]

It looks as if the upperclassmen have an excellent understanding of what their capabilities are, and they stay within themselves. Something along the lines of "Just be you". If the frosh learn quickly then this will be a very special season. It should be special anyway, but it's that much more enjoyable to watch a smart basketball team in action.

[Troublemaker]

Very happy to eat crow about URI winning. Duke had way more in the tank than I thought, and frankly, Duke dominated the game. Props to Coach Will for having the guys so well-conditioned, and also credit Coach K for going to a containment-style man-to-man defense that URI had trouble figuring out. URI wasn't able to drive by us enough to keep pace and they were goaded into taking long 2s.

Duke's first trophy this season:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxu1f_BXcAAI0s-.jpg

[richardjackson199]

In another thread, Troublemaker wrote:
"Oh, I wouldn't lock Nova and UK up for 1 seeds just yet. It's way too early."

Thankfully, we showed up bigtime with heart today and got the win as many predicted. We'll get some much needed rest, and I think most would agree our season outlook remains outstanding.

Troublemaker, wanna make a friendly bet on Nova and UK locking up 1 seeds? I asserted that because they respectively play in the Little East and the SUC, they will not get enough resistance competition to miss a #1 seed. I think they're both locks for #1 seeds based on how the season will play out. If both get #1 seeds, I win. If either fails to earn a #1 seed, you win.

(I think Duke will earn one as well, but we'll face lots of extremely stiff competition in the ACC which will help season us for March).

The stakes will be one 12-pack of beer chosen by DevilDeac. Or if you prefer - 1 bottle of the bourbon or scotch of your choice. (Nothing over $100). Win or lose, I'll come to Vegas to settle up. I love Vegas and get there once or twice a year. I'll be at the UNLV game, but too soon for this bet of course.

Of course if you're in, I'll be rooting for you to win the bet. I always prefer Kentucky to lose every game. I'd like to see them get another tough draw like last year and not make it out of the first weekend. I'll drink to that, and I'm buying. I just don't see it happening.

So you in? (No worries if not. We'll eventually find another chance for a bet.)

[camion]

A good, good win.

Luke is just a baller and Grayson is a warrior. Amile is a man and Matt is a winner. Chase and Frank were value added.

I'm proud of this team. They played intelligent team ball and that was winning ball.

Oh, K and the staff had a little something to do with it too. Good game plan.

[Troublemaker]

Troublemaker, wanna make a friendly bet on Nova and UK locking up 1 seeds? I asserted that because they respectively play in the Little East and the SUC, they will not get enough resistance competition to miss a #1 seed. I think they're both locks for #1 seeds based on how the season will play out. If both get #1 seeds, I win. If either fails to earn a #1 seed, you win.

(I think Duke will earn one as well, but we'll face lots of extremely stiff competition in the ACC which will help season us for March).

The stakes will be one 12-pack of beer chosen by DevilDeac. Or if you prefer - 1 bottle of the bourbon or scotch of your choice. (Nothing over $100). Win or lose, I'll come to Vegas to settle up. I love Vegas and get there once or twice a year. I'll be at the UNLV game, but too soon for this bet of course.


You're on! **shakes on it**

[Ultrarunner]

If you were to tell me that Duke won two games against solid competition with Grayson being he fifth leading scorer in each game, id laugh in your face.

This team can score. Great effort. Kennard is a stud.

Not a disagreement but an addition - this team can defend, too. They're going some solid work on that end of the court. Amile and Matt are known quantities and plus defenders. Frank is getting better every game while Grayson is doing a good job of hanging in through the injuries, while taking the ball from the other team on a regular basis. Luke is getting better, though I think he has a lower ceiling on defense than the others. Jeter today was actually moving his feet and playing good position defense despite the ankle.

I'm looking forward to seeing if the freshman additions will help the defense or hinder it. I'm hoping that K is using this time to show the youngsters that the defense is where the championship will be won - and that they buy into it as solidly as the returnees.

[richardjackson199]

You're on! **shakes on it**

**Shakes on it.**

I wanted to catch you on tilt. :p Nothing goes better with crow than good beer.

Looking forward either way!

ps - If you want to tilt me, just call my opinion laughably foolish. JasonEvans, you're invited to Vegas too - but we'd have to settle up at the poker tables! :cool:

[dukelifer]

Very impressed. This was a tough game. Guys are battlers and Amile is the rock. When Tatum comes back- teams will need to pick their poison. Kennard is really coming on.

[dukelifer]

Very happy to eat crow about URI winning. Duke had way more in the tank than I thought, and frankly, Duke dominated the game. Props to Coach Will for having the guys so well-conditioned, and also credit Coach K for going to a containment-style man-to-man defense that URI had trouble figuring out. URI wasn't able to drive by us enough to keep pace and they were goaded into taking long 2s.

Duke's first trophy this season:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxu1f_BXcAAI0s-.jpg

Midway through the first half when URI caught up-
I thought Duke was going to have one of those Clemson games. That Coach K seems to know a thing or two about basketball. May want to seriously consider renewing his contract.

[heyman25]

If you were to tell me that Duke won two games against solid competition with Grayson being he fifth leading scorer in each game, id laugh in your face.

This team can score. Great effort. Kennard is a stud.Kennard is becoming a star.Jefferson gets better each game. Kansas game he was careless with the ball. Now he is definitely the team leader. Jones is very reliable now. Beginning of the game we were not executing well on offense,but we were as steady as a rock in the second half.

After exam break I hope we can add Tatum and Bolden to the mix. Giles hopefully as soon, but my instincts say January.Play Vrankovic and DeLaurier if the opponents get easier.

[Troublemaker]

Amile was the player of the weekend, and for good reason. Even when Hassan Martin was blocking everything in sight (including one of Amile's post moves), Amile found ways to adjust and compensate for Martin's (over) aggressiveness. Grabbing offensive rebounds, making himself available for dump-offs from his teammates, converting reverse layups against Martin's length.

Yep, great point. Amile was the definition of "crafty" in the second half with his up-and-unders and other tricks to score on Martin.


Not a disagreement but an addition - this team can defend, too. They're going some solid work on that end of the court. Amile and Matt are known quantities and plus defenders. Frank is getting better every game while Grayson is doing a good job of hanging in through the injuries, while taking the ball from the other team on a regular basis. Luke is getting better, though I think he has a lower ceiling on defense than the others. Jeter today was actually moving his feet and playing good position defense despite the ankle.

Yes, it should be noted that Duke hasn't budged at all from our preseason top-15 defensive ranking in KenPom. We haven't climbed the rankings yet, but we've met the top-15 expectation so far, despite missing some high-quality size that can offer more rim protection and more defensive rebounding. Add Bolden and Giles and Tatum to the mix and we might be looking at a top-10 defense this season.

[superdave]

This Duke team is proving to be tough early in the season. That is what you want in a team. Now the team has to figure out how to expand the rotation to include the new guys.

Amile and Luke looked in command both games, Frank at times too. The Thanksgiving games ought to allow for some rest for Chase and Grayson, who are running slow. I sort of wish we had a week off.

This is such a bizarre start to the season, but I will take this win today and be satisfied. This was a big win.

[lmb]

Was anyone at the game? I was hoping someone could shed some light on the kerfuffle between Luke and the guy on the sideline

[devildeac]

In another thread, Troublemaker wrote:
"Oh, I wouldn't lock Nova and UK up for 1 seeds just yet. It's way too early."

Thankfully, we showed up bigtime with heart today and got the win as many predicted. We'll get some much needed rest, and I think most would agree our season outlook remains outstanding.

Troublemaker, wanna make a friendly bet on Nova and UK locking up 1 seeds? I asserted that because they respectively play in the Little East and the SUC, they will not get enough resistance competition to miss a #1 seed. I think they're both locks for #1 seeds based on how the season will play out. If both get #1 seeds, I win. If either fails to earn a #1 seed, you win.

(I think Duke will earn one as well, but we'll face lots of extremely stiff competition in the ACC which will help season us for March).

The stakes will be one 12-pack of beer chosen by DevilDeac. Or if you prefer - 1 bottle of the bourbon or scotch of your choice. (Nothing over $100). Win or lose, I'll come to Vegas to settle up. I love Vegas and get there once or twice a year. I'll be at the UNLV game, but too soon for this bet of course.

Of course if you're in, I'll be rooting for you to win the bet. I always prefer Kentucky to lose every game. I'd like to see them get another tough draw like last year and not make it out of the first weekend. I'll drink to that, and I'm buying. I just don't see it happening.

So you in? (No worries if not. We'll eventually find another chance for a bet.)

Wow. Twice so far I've been nominated to moderate/select the prize in a DBR betting contest. I'm in.

[CameronDuke]

Great, great win over a tough Rhody team. Rhody will win a lot of games in the Atlantic 10 conference this season.

Did anyone else see Kennard hit a 3 in the first half in the corner, tweak his ankle, and get grabbed on the arm by a Rhody fan? It also looked like the Rhody fan may have verbally taunted him. Kennard went quickly over to referee Mike Eades and told him what happened and Eades talked to the fan but nothing else happened. The 3rd replay ESPN showed, to me, showed that the fan clearly grabbed Kennard on the arm. That's terrible if nothing happened to the fan. If Kennard retaliated there, he would get crucified. Fans that sit courtside have to display better etiquette than that. Was alcohol served at the arena today since it was a neutral site? Perhaps that was a factor in the Rhody fan making physical contact with a Duke student-athlete?

[richardjackson199]

Wow. Twice so far I've been nominated to moderate/select the prize in a DBR betting contest. I'm in.

Thanks! Be thinking of a good beer which can be purchased in Vegas. There is time.

Remember, beer has antioxidants which are good for your heart. Dr. Devildeac's orders.

[jimsumner]

I have three rules for a long and happy life.

1.If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

2.Never live any place where it can snow in November.

3.Never bet on college sports.

[dukelifer]

Was anyone at the game? I was hoping someone could shed some light on the kerfuffle between Luke and the guy on the sideline

The guy said "you guys are going down" and Luke said - "okay I am about to ruin your afternoon."

[devildeac]

Thanks! Be thinking of a good beer which can be purchased in Vegas. There is time.

Remember, beer has antioxidants which are good for your heart. Dr. Devildeac's orders.

Darker beers>lighter beers, too.

Plus, the higher ABV ales serve as solvents for all those fatty arterial plaques/deposits. :rolleyes:

[freshmanjs]

Proud of the team. Great job this weekend!! I hope we rest Grayson until he's fully healthy.

[CTDukeFan]

Was anyone at the game? I was hoping someone could shed some light on the kerfuffle between Luke and the guy on the sideline

I was there on the opposite side and could see over there but it wasn't clear what happened and they didn't show a replay in the stadium. Security talked with the guy after Luke complained.

[ChillinDuke]

Wow. Twice so far I've been nominated to moderate/select the prize in a DBR betting contest. I'm in.

The highest honor.

[takes sip of 90 Minute IPA]

- Chill'd

[CTDukeFan]

Was it just me, or did anyone else notice that the URI head coach seemed to be on the court in the last few minutes when Duke was taking the ball up the court but off the court whenever URI was on offense? Very surprised the refs didn't ask him to move back.

[KandG]

Did anyone else see Kennard hit a 3 in the first half in the corner, tweak his ankle, and get grabbed on the arm by a Rhody fan? It also looked like the Rhody fan may have verbally taunted him. Kennard went quickly over to referee Mike Eades and told him what happened and Eades talked to the fan but nothing else happened. The 3rd replay ESPN showed, to me, showed that the fan clearly grabbed Kennard on the arm. That's terrible if nothing happened to the fan. If Kennard retaliated there, he would get crucified. Fans that sit courtside have to display better etiquette than that. Was alcohol served at the arena today since it was a neutral site? Perhaps that was a factor in the Rhody fan making physical contact with a Duke student-athlete?

That whole incident was strange...in an NBA arena, a fan like that would definitely be thrown out, unless they were a VIP in super high priced seats. Part of the issue might have been the lack of a definitive camera angle -- the replays I saw didn't have enough angles to provide full context after Luke took the shot and fell. I'm assuming the fact that this was a minor tournament accounted for the lack of cameras.

On the Amile rebound basket that was ruled not to have beaten the shot clock in the second half, the only angle they showed on ESPN made it impossible for the officials to determine whether the ball was out of his fingertips. For many major televised college games and all NBA games, you get much better (and closer) angles that what was provided on today's broadcast.

[devildeac]

The highest honor.

[takes sip of 90 Minute IPA]

- Chill'd

You're welcome ;) .

Review on Ymm, Beer later tonight? ;)

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Was it just me, or did anyone else notice that the URI head coach seemed to be on the court in the last few minutes when Duke was taking the ball up the court but off the court whenever URI was on offense? Very surprised the refs didn't ask him to move back.
I don't think Danny Hurley was ever really known for his defense. :cool:

[Coballs]

Of course glad to leave with the W today, but URI was not nearly the opponent that they were built up to be. Nothing about them seemed dangerous or top-25 worthy. Maybe they were off their game or just tired.

If and when we get the full roster playing, this team will be unreal. But there's no way to predict when that will happen and my biggest concern is that some of the guys get held back too late to integrate them into the scheme. Based on recent years and the staff's approach to muting all info regarding injuries, there is no way to tell when that will occur. Harry Giles might be starting for the 76ers before we get another update about his status.

[Newton_14]

Really impressive win as others have noted. It's hard watching Grayson push through at probably at best 60% of normal. Such a talented player who is currently very handicapped. I hope they hold him out and rest him these next few cupcake games when we get Tatum, Bolden, and then Giles back. This is going to be a really weird year in terms of the team we trotted out there in these early games, the games from now til the start of Conference play and then Conference and the tourneys. The rotations will be wildly different at times.

Also could not believe Chase was able to go today. Like Grayson he was far below 100%, but I am shocked he could walk and wasn't in a boot. The wonders of medical treatment this day and age.

I thought our guys looked very sharp on both ends. Defense was outstanding. Luke and Amile as an offensive tandem was enough for us to build and keep a sizeable lead, even with the other 3 guys struggling offensively.

These 5 core guys are just really darn good, and I thought both Vrankovich and Chase gave solid minutes both days. When the 3 injured star freshman are integrated into the mix, this team is going to be a very difficult team to beat. I can't wait for that. Also can't wait for Javin to learn how to play without fouling, but that will take some time so we have to be patient. He and Jack will get minutes in the upcoming cupcake games so hopefully they can use those minutes to improve.

[Dukeford]

Great, great win over a tough Rhody team. Rhody will win a lot of games in the Atlantic 10 conference this season.

Did anyone else see Kennard hit a 3 in the first half in the corner, tweak his ankle, and get grabbed on the arm by a Rhody fan? It also looked like the Rhody fan may have verbally taunted him. Kennard went quickly over to referee Mike Eades and told him what happened and Eades talked to the fan but nothing else happened. The 3rd replay ESPN showed, to me, showed that the fan clearly grabbed Kennard on the arm. That's terrible if nothing happened to the fan. If Kennard retaliated there, he would get crucified. Fans that sit courtside have to display better etiquette than that. Was alcohol served at the arena today since it was a neutral site? Perhaps that was a factor in the Rhody fan making physical contact with a Duke student-athlete?

Coulda been worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnPNv_YUYrs

[yancem]

Really impressive win as others have noted. It's hard watching Grayson push through at probably at best 60% of normal. Such a talented player who is currently very handicapped. I hope they hold him out and rest him these next few cupcake games when we get Tatum, Bolden, and then Giles back. This is going to be a really weird year in terms of the team we trotted out there in these early games, the games from now til the start of Conference play and then Conference and the tourneys. The rotations will be wildly different at times.

Also could not believe Chase was able to go today. Like Grayson he was far below 100%, but I am shocked he could walk and wasn't in a boot. The wonders of medical treatment this day and age.

I thought our guys looked very sharp on both ends. Defense was outstanding. Luke and Amile as an offensive tandem was enough for us to build and keep a sizeable lead, even with the other 3 guys struggling offensively.

These 5 core guys are just really darn good, and I thought both Vrankovich and Chase gave solid minutes both days. When the 3 injured star freshman are integrated into the mix, this team is going to be a very difficult team to beat. I can't wait for that. Also can't wait for Javin to learn how to play without fouling, but that will take some time so we have to be patient. He and Jack will get minutes in the upcoming cupcake games so hopefully they can use those minutes to improve.

Make you wonder exactly what Tatum and Bolden's injuries are that they are sitting out? It also seem curious to sit those two and saying we don't want to rush their return or risk further injury while playing two other players that are clearly hurt. Like I said, make you wonder what the real extent of their injuries are?

[MCFinARL]

Make you wonder exactly what Tatum and Bolden's injuries are that they are sitting out? It also seem curious to sit those two and saying we don't want to rush their return or risk further injury while playing two other players that are clearly hurt. Like I said, make you wonder what the real extent of their injuries are?

Some mention by the commentators today that the nature of Grayson's injury was such that playing could not make it worse. Possibly that is the difference, that risk of exacerbating the injury is key? But yes, without more information than we have gotten so far, it's hard to tell how serious Tatum and Bolden's injuries are.

[dukelifer]

Some mention by the commentators today that the nature of Grayson's injury was such that playing could not make it worse. Possibly that is the difference, that risk of exacerbating the injury is key? But yes, without more information than we have gotten so far, it's hard to tell how serious Tatum and Bolden's injuries are.

Tatum I get. Feet take a while. Bolden's injury is strange. Still not sure what it is.

[Furniture]

I have three rules for a long and happy life.

1.If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

2.Never live any place where it can snow in November.

3.Never bet on college sports.

You are a wise man sir. However I would substitute no 3 with . Yes dear, of course you are right!

[moonpie23]

2nd day in a row that i had to work while having the game on mute over in the corner of the control room. It was distracting, yet reinforced how good this team really is......


luke is a baller.....every time i glanced over, he was making a play....i didn't get to watch closely enough to vote, so i'll leave that up to youse guys...

really proud of the win., RI looked legit and hungry....

[Steven43]

Very happy to eat crow about URI winning. Duke had way more in the tank than I thought, and frankly, Duke dominated the game. Props to Coach Will for having the guys so well-conditioned, and also credit Coach K for going to a containment-style man-to-man defense that URI had trouble figuring out. URI wasn't able to drive by us enough to keep pace and they were goaded into taking long 2s.

Duke's first trophy this season:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxu1f_BXcAAI0s-.jpg
According to the official Duke roster info there is only one inch of height difference between Luke (6'6") and Grayson (6'5"), but in this photo Luke looks 2" taller.

[elvis14]

As I was watching today's game vs URI, the thing that I realized was that URI was taking the shots we wanted them to take. Sure, they got a few nice dunks here and there but mostly they took what we wanted them to take. In the first half, when they were staying close, there were a few shots that URI chucked up where I said "They can have that"...and they went in. But the law of averages eventually caught up with them and those shots stopped falling.

[Kedsy]

In another thread, Troublemaker wrote:
"Oh, I wouldn't lock Nova and UK up for 1 seeds just yet. It's way too early."

* * *

Troublemaker, wanna make a friendly bet on Nova and UK locking up 1 seeds? I asserted that because they respectively play in the Little East and the SUC, they will not get enough resistance competition to miss a #1 seed. I think they're both locks for #1 seeds based on how the season will play out. If both get #1 seeds, I win. If either fails to earn a #1 seed, you win.

I do not wish to bet, but I agree with Troublemaker. When I watched Kentucky live against Michigan State at MSG, I was not so impressed by UK. Monk is otherworldly, and Fox is really quick, but if either of them is off the court, the rest of the ream looked fairly pedestrian to me. And Nova's good but they're not that good. I think they're overrated right now. I guess we'll see, but I don't think either team is a lock for a #1 seed right now. They both might get them, or possibly neither will.

[gofurman]

According to the official Duke roster info there is only one inch of height difference between Luke (6'6") and Grayson (6'5"), but in this photo Luke looks 2" taller.

Well, I think pics are good for getting real heights too. Notice Matt jones is 6'5. He and Allen look similar. At least close. I think Kennard might be pushing 6'7 or a tall 6'6. . Amile is supposedly 6'9 and kennard looks within two inches of him

[richardjackson199]

I do not wish to bet, but I agree with Troublemaker. When I watched Kentucky live against Michigan State at MSG, I was not so impressed by UK. Monk is otherworldly, and Fox is really quick, but if either of them is off the court, the rest of the ream looked fairly pedestrian to me. And Nova's good but they're not that good. I think they're overrated right now. I guess we'll see, but I don't think either team is a lock for a #1 seed right now. They both might get them, or possibly neither will.

I hope you're right Kedsy. I don't think either team would get a #1 seed if they were in the ACC. I expect the ACC to beat each other up, while these teams compile an impressive looking record (compared to their peers in better conferences). I know both play some ranked teams in and out of conference, including some ACC teams. But that is different from going through the ACC gauntlet where so many teams can and will beat you, throwing their other-worldly best shot at you with their home crowd. I expect both UK and Nova to lose a few games, but not enough to fall off the #1 line compared to their peers. I might be wrong - of course it's tough to call two #1 seeds in November.

But it's a win-win either way for me. A friendly low stakes bet for beer can be fun. I don't mind buying some good beer in Vegas with Troublemaker. And if Kentucky chokes, it tastes even better.

[wavedukefan70s]

Went to nova v ucf game.i think we will be able to handle nova if we face them.ucf has a center thats huge.kid has to be atleast 7ft3.
Niether team could hit from 3.
Novas guards were better than ucf big man.that was pretty much the difference in the game.three scorers vs one scorer.
Duke looks more seasoned than both the teams i saw play.
Once we are mostly healthy look out.Duke will be in beast mode.
I thought we looked solid most of the game.its early in the season duke is beat up and still looks good.

[rocketeli]

According to the official Duke roster info there is only one inch of height difference between Luke (6'6") and Grayson (6'5"), but in this photo Luke looks 2" taller.

According to the NBA draft combine for 2011 Nolan Smith who is standing next to Allen is 6 ft 1 and 1/2 inches with out shoes and 6 31/2 in basketball shoes. Assuming he's wearing shoes in the photo he'd be about 6' 3'' Allen looks about an inch or so taller so 6'4" or 6 4 1/2 in shoes, then Luke looks another inch taller (the shape of their heads, and the way Allen is holding his head is a little confusing and may exaggerate the differential) so in shoes it does look like Kennard is 6'5" or even 6 5 1/2 " legit. Jefferson can be listed at 6'9" all day if you want but I've never thought he was any taller than 6'7".

[flyingdutchdevil]

Was at the game. Terrible, terrible atmosphere. a) Mohegan Sun cannot do sporting events well. b) the crowd was awful despite being so close to Rhode Island. c) there was so much UNC gear because basketball fans who like URI/don't like Duke wore the only baby blue gear they have, which happens to be UNC. Gross. The only positive is that the URI fans were really nice.

1) Kennard is an absolute stud. Countless times during the game, I screamed, "Just give the ball to Kennard!" Fans - both Duke and URI - tended to agree. Even a URI fan said, "is that #5 Grayson Allen? When did he dye his hair?" Yeah, Kennard is that good. What I really like about Kennard is that he's proven he can play on the ball (yesterday) and off the ball (first two games of the year). That is a luxury to have.

2) Amile was a beast, although there are two things that need to be pointed out. a) his body language against Frank Jackson is horrible. If Jackson had a turnover or bad shot, it has Amile who would get in his face. Not sure how much of this was shown on TV, but it wasn't pretty. I get the tough love thing, but wow! Amile was kind of an a-hole to Frank. b) that block against Amile was one of the most beautiful one-on-one blocks I've ever seen. Martin leads the nation in blocks (at 6-7, no less) and his block on Amile showed why. From a basketball perspective, it was beautiful.

3) Frank Jackson needs work on his 3pt shot. During warm-ups and the awkward period before the second half starts, Jackson was launching threes. We may have hit 15% of those shots. Grayson? He hit ~60%, if not more. Jackson's poor shooting was also reflected at the game , where he shot 0-4. Jackson may be a good shooter, but there is no way he's on the same level as Kennard, Grayson, or Jones.

4) I really liked our chemistry so far. There is a lot of 1-on-1, but we passed the ball pretty effectively. Our turnover-to-assist ratio was 1:1 yesterday, but I feel like Duke really cut down on turnovers (until the last few minutes) and made smart passes. That Grayson to Matt pass was a thing of beauty.

[budwom]

I have three rules for a long and happy life.

1.If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

2.Never live any place where it can snow in November.

3.Never bet on college sports.

I would amend rule number two to Never Live Where People Panic When There's An Inch of Snow

[grad_devil]

Was at the game. Terrible, terrible atmosphere. a) Mohegan Sun cannot do sporting events well. b) the crowd was awful despite being so close to Rhode Island. c) there was so much UNC gear because basketball fans who like URI/don't like Duke wore the only baby blue gear they have, which happens to be UNC. Gross. The only positive is that the URI fans were really nice.

My sarcasm meter may be off (or I may just be wrong, and they were wearing UNC-CH logos/etc.), but aren't Rhode Island's team colors the same, ugly, faded blue as UNC-CH's?

Now that I re-read your statement, I'm assuming they were wearing UNC apparel. My apologies.

[Ichabod Drain]

The only positive is that the URI fans were really nice.



Not to Luke they weren't.

[whereinthehellami]

Kennard, Kennard, Kennard! Stepped up big time again. Was a force with the ball in his hands. Underrated passer and creator. Also an underrated scorer in the post, has a plethora of moves in the paint, very creative.

Just a joy to watch Jefferson play this season. He gets it. Love his savviness and creativity. And his defense and leadership are off the charts.

Watching the old guys play (Jones, Jefferson, Allen, and Kennard) is a lot of fun. Old school. Great ball movement and basektball IQ. You don't see basketball like that anymore. I'd be curious to see what those 4 and Bolden could get do at full health. I think Bolden would be the easiest to integrate and provides the missing rim protector, inside force that is missing right now.

Count me in the group that wonders about where team chemistry will be when integration of the freshman comes around? There is a band of dinged up brothers playing gutty basketball right now. Allen has an NBA future and is playing right now. And he is putting himself/future on the line. Never under estimate the mental part of the game.

[elvis14]

I would amend rule number two to Always Live Where People Panic When There's An Inch of Snow

I fixed that for you! :):p

[Spanarkel]

But it's a win-win either way for me. A friendly low stakes bet for beer can be fun. I don't mind buying some good beer in Vegas with Troublemaker. And if Kentucky chokes, it tastes even better.



Could this wager and subsequent meeting in Vegas between Troublemaker and Richard Jackson lead to another Vegas-themed movie next spring?("March Madness IPAs"...)

[Billy Dat]

The official DBR write-up starts with these words, "We try not to go overboard but let’s be real: this was one of Duke’s most impressive wins in recent years.". It is effusive, but it's not over the top. With 4 healthy starters, an injured started who is also supposed to be our best player and an injured 6th man, we head butted the Rams back Little Rhody in definitive fashion. I mean, we really stuck it to them.


Of course glad to leave with the W today, but URI was not nearly the opponent that they were built up to be. Nothing about them seemed dangerous or top-25 worthy. Maybe they were off their game or just tired.

I don't agree. I thought they were extremely tough on defense and they never quit, we were just that much better.


This Duke team is proving to be tough early in the season. That is what you want in a team. Now the team has to figure out how to expand the rotation to include the new guys.

If and when we get the full roster playing, this team will be unreal. But there's no way to predict when that will happen and my biggest concern is that some of the guys get held back too late to integrate them into the scheme.

These 5 core guys are just really darn good, and I thought both Vrankovich and Chase gave solid minutes both days. When the 3 injured star freshman are integrated into the mix, this team is going to be a very difficult team to beat.

I really liked our chemistry so far. There is a lot of 1-on-1, but we passed the ball pretty effectively. Our turnover-to-assist ratio was 1:1 yesterday, but I feel like Duke really cut down on turnovers (until the last few minutes) and made smart passes. That Grayson to Matt pass was a thing of beauty.

Count me in the group that wonders about where team chemistry will be when integration of the freshman comes around? There is a band of dinged up brothers playing gutty basketball right now. Allen has an NBA future and is playing right now. And he is putting himself/future on the line. Never under estimate the mental part of the game.

I paired all of these quotes because I had a moment during the second half when I was awed by the way these guys were playing together. In his presser, K pointed out that Grayson's injury has forced him to be more of a passer, and we completely shredded that URI defense. I, too, want to see us at full strength, but I am also mindful that we are seeing a very pretty brand of hoops right now. Yesterday was the true meaning of THE FIST. It was beautiful. Our freshmen are going to amaze with their talent, but they aren't equipped to win a game with 100% execution like we did yesterday. Their talent will likely be enough, and the execution will come, but yesterday was a gift made possible by the injury - a gift of gorgeous team play on both ends.


Yep, great point. Amile was the definition of "crafty" in the second half with his up-and-unders and other tricks to score on Martin.
Yes, it should be noted that Duke hasn't budged at all from our preseason top-15 defensive ranking in KenPom. We haven't climbed the rankings yet, but we've met the top-15 expectation so far, despite missing some high-quality size that can offer more rim protection and more defensive rebounding. Add Bolden and Giles and Tatum to the mix and we might be looking at a top-10 defense this season.

Amile was amazing on both ends and he showed a much better ability to back his man down in the lane to get to his array of low post finishes. I, too, am happy that the defense is in the top 15 despite a loss.


Really impressive win as others have noted. It's hard watching Grayson push through at probably at best 60% of normal. Such a talented player who is currently very handicapped. I hope they hold him out and rest him these next few cupcake games when we get Tatum, Bolden, and then Giles back. This is going to be a really weird year in terms of the team we trotted out there in these early games, the games from now til the start of Conference play and then Conference and the tourneys. The rotations will be wildly different at times.

Kennard is an absolute stud. Countless times during the game, I screamed, "Just give the ball to Kennard!" Fans - both Duke and URI - tended to agree. Even a URI fan said, "is that #5 Grayson Allen? When did he dye his hair?" Yeah, Kennard is that good. What I really like about Kennard is that he's proven he can play on the ball (yesterday) and off the ball (first two games of the year). That is a luxury to have.

Kennard, Kennard, Kennard! Stepped up big time again. Was a force with the ball in his hands. Underrated passer and creator. Also an underrated scorer in the post, has a plethora of moves in the paint, very creative.

Grayson gve us a lot by staying in the game, and that early dunk he had was important as it showed URI that they couldn't just leave him alone. He willed himself to drive, again, to keep the pressure on and maintain our spacing. Kennard IS an absolute stud and his early spectacular offensive play, to me, should allow us to cut Grayson's minutes so that he can get as healthy as possible. Getting one of the freshmen back will help that, too. We need bodies. In the presser, K pointed out that Kennard's success yesterday forced URI to go small which played into our hands.

It was an extremely satisfying and gutsy win and, to me, was what Duke basketball under K has been about. No excuses, we had enough on the floor to beat a ranked team and not just beat them, but take them apart. I, too, want the injured guys on the court, but this was one for the old guard and they really did us fans proud.

[mattman91]

Well, I think pics are good for getting real heights too. Notice Matt jones is 6'5. He and Allen look similar. At least close. I think Kennard might be pushing 6'7 or a tall 6'6. . Amile is supposedly 6'9 and kennard looks within two inches of him

Waiting for cinder block reference...

[Troublemaker]

According to the official Duke roster info there is only one inch of height difference between Luke (6'6") and Grayson (6'5"), but in this photo Luke looks 2" taller.

A lot of that is neck. Check out their arm lengths side by side. Grayson is effectively the bigger/longer player because of that arm length advantage.

Allow Luke's T-rex arms to wrap around you (to the extent that they can get around) and warm your body with thoughts of a 4-year, retired jersey, career from Luke.

[MChambers]

Waiting for cinder block reference...

Yep. This height discussion is useless without cinder blocks, either American or European.

[tbyers11]

A lot of that is neck. Check out their arm lengths side by side. Grayson is effectively the bigger/longer player because of that arm length advantage.

Allow Luke's T-rex arms to wrap around you (to the extent that they can get around) and warm your body with thoughts of a 4-year, retired jersey, career from Luke.

I currently can't spork you but I wanted to let you the second line of this post is not only spot-on but the funniest thing that I've read on DBR (or anywhere for that matter) in a long time.

[budwom]

while we're assessing heights and necks, let's have a URI game shout out to Big Ref, who managed to drag his elongated frame up and down the court with dignity and grace.

[flyingdutchdevil]

A lot of that is neck. Check out their arm lengths side by side. Grayson is effectively the bigger/longer player because of that arm length advantage.

Allow Luke's T-rex arms to wrap around you (to the extent that they can get around) and warm your body with thoughts of a 4-year, retired jersey, career from Luke.

Also, "official" Duke heights are one of the most inaccurate measures out there. I still can't get over Demarcus Nelson, who was listed at 6'4": http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=152123

DMarc is 6'1" without shoes / 6'2" with shoes, and I think that is still a little generous.

Also agree that Amile at 6'9" is a little off.

[Rich]

According to the official Duke roster info there is only one inch of height difference between Luke (6'6") and Grayson (6'5"), but in this photo Luke looks 2" taller.

You can't see it but after the game he had they put Kennard on a pedestal

[kAzE]

I was only able to catch about half of the Penn St game, but I saw the entire URI contest. And I had some thoughts on the team from what I was able to watch:

- Grayson's struggles with scoring definitely have a lot to do with his injuries. The toe injury seems to have robbed him of a good deal of his explosiveness. The problem is, he relies extremely heavily on his athleticism to do what he does. When you compare Grayson to Luke (as I have done numerous times already this season), Grayson has to work SO much harder for his points. When you take away his ability to rise above the defense, especially when he's not hitting from deep (just 1 for 11 in these two games), he becomes extremely easy to defend. Credit to Grayson for finding other ways to contribute. He did a great job rebounding and distributing in both games. He should have had a few more assists, but guys were missing layups and open jumpers. He has no business playing such heavy minutes with his injuries, but the guy just has so much heart. Would love to see him get healthy so he can get back to dominating.

- Amile is who we thought he was. Given that we lost Chase fairly early on in the Penn St. game, I would have expected him to dominate the boards, and he absolutely came through. I love his work in the post this year, as well. He had shown some of his moves before he got hurt last year, but his touch around the paint is very nice. Having a guy with his ability to operate down low is pretty crucial, since right now, he's the only guy we have who can do it. He might not be the best player on the team, but he is by far the most important.

- Luke: I've been the captain of the Luke Kennard Express since day 1 of last year. Is everyone aboard yet? Would anybody be surprised if this guy leads the team in scoring? In the 2nd half of the URI game, nobody except Luke was able to get any penetration against their defense. Even his misses were perfect offensive rebound/put back opportunities for Amile. He played 40 minutes in the URI game, which is a clear sign that Coach K puts a lot of trust in him. We will see how things work out once Jayson and Grayson return to full health, but I don't see how you don't give this guy the ball. He's big, he's skilled, and can score from anywhere. Why are we not more worried about Luke going pro after this year? He's the most NBA ready guard on the roster.

- Vrankovic: I saw some people complaining that Coach wasn't playing him more. Are you guys serious? I haven't seen Vrank make a single stop yet in games that matter this year. Not one. Every time he's been the guy who was supposed to challenge a shot, the guy went right past him and scored. He's also totally fumbled at least 3 or 4 rebounds that went right to him. He's just not ready.

[Saratoga2]

Also, "official" Duke heights are one of the most inaccurate measures out there. I still can't get over Demarcus Nelson, who was listed at 6'4": http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=152123

DMarc is 6'1" without shoes / 6'2" with shoes, and I think that is still a little generous.

Also agree that Amile at 6'9" is a little off.

The NBA Pre-draft camp measurements are listed in http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=2 In this listing DeMarcus measured at 6'1" without shoes. I have no idea why Duke doesn't correctly indicate player height on the roster. Demarcus is probably one of the clearest example. Reddick was correctly listed so it seems to be whatever the player decides should be included for him. My guess is Grayson is 6'3", Amile 6'8" and Luke a true 6'6".

[NSDukeFan]

I have three rules for a long and happy life.

1.If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

2.Never live any place where it can snow in November.

3.Never bet on college sports.


I would amend rule number two to Never Live Where People Panic When There's An Inch of Snow

No need for any snowaphobia here. Although I don't usually see snow in November and often not much in December, skiing and skating are good reasons to embrace the snow and cold.

(I am usually tired of the cold by April, however and our family always escapes to Florida for a week and a half then).

[whereinthehellami]

The NBA Pre-draft camp measurements are listed in http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=2...My guess is Grayson is 6'3", Amile 6'8" and Luke a true 6'6".

I like to think of it more in terms of basketball. How does the player effectively use that height on the court and in their style of play? Grayson plays about 6'5, battles inside. Amile plays 6'9 or taller, he is so long and deceptive. Jeter plays small, like he is 6'8. Another guy who played smaller IMO was Josh Hairston, played like he was 6'5. Dmarc played 6'5 or taller, kid did well inside.

[Newton_14]

I like to think of it more in terms of basketball. How does the player effectively use that height on the court and in their style of play? Grayson plays about 6'5, battles inside. Amile plays 6'9 or taller, he is so long and deceptive. Jeter plays small, like he is 6'8. Another guy who played smaller IMO was Josh Hairston, played like he was 6'5. Dmarc played 6'5 or taller, kid did well inside.
I would add that the kids play the games in their sneakers, not barefooted, so I really could not care less about how tall they are or aren't without shoes. It's irrelevant.

[kAzE]

Jon Scheyer is 6'5", but he has a crazy long neck :)

[sagegrouse]

The NBA Pre-draft camp measurements are listed in http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=2 In this listing DeMarcus measured at 6'1" without shoes. I have no idea why Duke doesn't correctly indicate player height on the roster. Demarcus is probably one of the clearest example. Reddick was correctly listed so it seems to be whatever the player decides should be included for him. My guess is Grayson is 6'3", Amile 6'8" and Luke a true 6'6".

Players heights are list "in shoes." Everyone does it (homework left to the reader-critic). Redick was an anomaly, but JJ has short arms (wingspread less than height), so it would be silly to list him at 6-5 or 6-6. DeMarcus is also an anomaly -- he had a spine deformity that robbed him of some height -- I can't like his wingspan, but it was considerable.

[Gooch]

Was anyone at the game? I was hoping someone could shed some light on the kerfuffle between Luke and the guy on the sideline

I was at both games this weekend and had the great fortune to sit in the same courtside seats for the PSU game (thanks to a very generous father-in-law of a fellow dukie). The seats were REALLY close to the court, so it is entirely possible the guy accidentally tripped Luke and then tried to help him up or something like that. Although the guy was wearing some sort of throwback Tom Brady jersey so who knows his motivation...

It was amazing to see the game up close and made me realize how blessed we are to have the chance to sit so close to the action in Cameron. You really get the sense of the amazing athleticism of all the guys and how hard they work on every possession.

Also had a chance to talk with the high school coach of three of the PSU guys--really stand-up guy and really proud of his former players.

Oh and I got some of Luke's sweat on me at one point during the game and when I got home I was all of a sudden able to make 25-footers at will on my hoop in the driveway. With my eyes closed. Nothin' but net.

[jimsumner]

No need for any snowaphobia here. Although I don't usually see snow in November and often not much in December, skiing and skating are good reasons to embrace the snow and cold.

(I am usually tired of the cold by April, however and our family always escapes to Florida for a week and a half then).

Well, if you don't ski or skate . . .

Hey, I love snow.

As long as it falls in winter, as nature intended.

And doesn't hang around too long.

And I don't have to be anywhere until it melts.

And I don't have to listen to smug ex-Yankees wondering why we don't have the same number of snow plows for our annual five inches as they used to have back home for their annual 50 inches.

Yes, we take the day off when it snows. Deal with it.

[NM Duke Fan]

My guess is Grayson is 6'3", Amile 6'8" and Luke a true 6'6".

Very close to my estimates as well. I have wondered how Grayson's height might be an issue for some NBA teams, although he certainly has the hops. Luke is a nice height for an NBA shooting guard, (even with his "T-rex arms" he has an ok ability to go inside) and he does look taller than last year. I too have been very impressed with his potential from early on last year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Very close to my estimates as well. I have wondered how Grayson's height might be an issue for some NBA teams, although he certainly has the hops. Luke is a nice height for an NBA shooting guard, (even with his "T-rex arms" he has an ok ability to go inside) and he does look taller than last year. I too have been very impressed with his potential from early on last year.

Duke does well with crafty T-Rex shooting guards in the NBA. Proud that JJ is the only player in the NBA whose wingspan is shorter than his height.

[NM Duke Fan]

Well, if you don't ski or skate . . .

Hey, I love snow.

As long as it falls in winter, as nature intended.

And doesn't hang around too long.

And I don't have to be anywhere until it melts.

And I don't have to listen to smug ex-Yankees wondering why we don't have the same number of snow plows for our annual five inches as they used to have back home for their annual 50 inches.

Yes, we take the day off when it snows. Deal with it.

I live at 7K, and have no desire to ever live in an area without snow. The local mountains got close to 300 inches last season, and I hiked in it just about every weekend. I enjoy the testing of toughness and will that rough weather brings, and would die of boredom living on a tropical island with the same weather day after day!

[Olympic Fan]

I don't know why so many people have so much of a problem with Grayson's height.

He was measured at the 2013 LeBron James camp at 6-4.5 IN SHOES. Later that summer, he was measured at the Kevin Durant camp at 6-4.5 IN SHOES:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Grayson-Allen-71570/

Since almost all measurements are with shoes -- a 6-5 listing for a player measured at 6-4.5 three years ago is not outrageous (or even wrong).

[Skydog]

Speaking of height RI's 5 main players (most minutes) were listed at 6'0", 6'3",6'4",6'5", and 6'7". They will undoubtedly be the shortest team we play all season so its not surprising that we were better on the boards and shooting in the paint than usual. Still a good win given the injuries and the fatigue.

[Rich]

I don't know why so many people have so much of a problem with Grayson's height.

He was measured at the 2013 LeBron James camp at 6-4.5 IN SHOES. Later that summer, he was measured at the Kevin Durant camp at 6-4.5 IN SHOES:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Grayson-Allen-71570/

Since almost all measurements are with shoes -- a 6-5 listing for a player measured at 6-4.5 three years ago is not outrageous (or even wrong).

While all that may be true, you failed to mention that Grayson was wearing THIS HAT.

6878

[Ggallagher]

You can't see it but after the game he had they put Kennard on a pedestal

For what it's worth, I asked my daughter about Luke's height. She went through the security line at the Cincinnati airport right behind him this summer. Her comment was that he's "very tall", and has to be well above 6'5". And she's 5'11" herself so it's not like she has no perspective on height.

Seems like the estimates of 6'7" might be closer to accurate.

[House P]

I would add that the kids play the games in their sneakers, not barefooted, so I really could not care less about how tall they are or aren't without shoes. It's irrelevant.

This explains why the Clippers once wasted a second round draft pick on Gene Simmons (http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/Gene_Simmons_crop_1.jpg). :)

My pet peeve about using "height with shoes" measurements is that there seems to be fairly wide variation in how much taller players get when they put their shoes on. For example, according to DraftExpress.com (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/), Harry Giles is 6'10" with shoes while former Miami power forward Anthony King was listed at 6'9.75" with shoes. However, without shoes, Harry is listed at 6'9.25" and King was listed at 6'7". Does Harry really wear shoes with a 0.75" thick sole?

It seems that the "height with shoes" measurement opens up the opportunity for players to be listed according to how tall they would like to be perceived. I would prefer to know how tall they actually are. Regardless of whether they are listed with or without shoes, I would just like the measurement to be accurate.

[uh_no]

I don't know why so many people have so much of a problem with Grayson's height.

He was measured at the 2013 LeBron James camp at 6-4.5 IN SHOES. Later that summer, he was measured at the Kevin Durant camp at 6-4.5 IN SHOES:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Grayson-Allen-71570/

Since almost all measurements are with shoes -- a 6-5 listing for a player measured at 6-4.5 three years ago is not outrageous (or even wrong).

Not only that, but it turns out your height can vary by a good deal (~1" for me) depending on time of day, and I'm sure other things, such as back tightness and compression.

[gam7]

While all that may be true, you failed to mention that Grayson was wearing THIS HAT.

6878

Actually, I think it was this one.

6880

[jacone21]

...
snow plows
...

What are those? Down here, we just pour a bunch of rocks on it and hope for the best.

[Neals384]

Anyone see an announcement of the all-tournament team and MVP? I would think Amile for MVP and Luke for all tourney team. But I checked the tournament web site and it hasn't been updated.

[rsvman]

This explains why the Clippers once wasted a second round draft pick on Gene Simmons (http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/Gene_Simmons_crop_1.jpg). :)

My pet peeve about using "height with shoes" measurements is that there seems to be fairly wide variation in how much taller players get when they put their shoes on. For example, according to DraftExpress.com (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/), Harry Giles is 6'10" with shoes while former Miami power forward Anthony King was listed at 6'9.75" with shoes. However, without shoes, Harry is listed at 6'9.25" and King was listed at 6'7". Does Harry really wear shoes with a 0.75" thick sole?

It seems that the "height with shoes" measurement opens up the opportunity for players to be listed according to how tall they would like to be perceived. I would prefer to know how tall they actually are. Regardless of whether they are listed with or without shoes, I would just like the measurement to be accurate.

You know what might be a much more helpful rubric? How about standing reach instead of height? Maybe standing reach is a more relevant measurement than height, anyway.

[Indoor66]

You know what might be a much more helpful rubric? How about standing reach instead of height? Maybe standing reach is a more relevant measurement than height, anyway.

That is still influenced by shoe thickness. How about we do all official measurements while they are in stocking feet and specify Wigwam wool socks - to assure uniformity? 😎

[fuse]

I thought the only accepted measure on DBR was cinder blocks?

[Indoor66]

I thought the only accepted measure on DBR was cinder blocks?

I, certainly, did not challenge the means of measure, just the criteria for the feet! :p:cool:

[NSDukeFan]

Do you use imperial or metric cinder blocks?

[sagegrouse]

This explains why the Clippers once wasted a second round draft pick on Gene Simmons (http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/Gene_Simmons_crop_1.jpg). :)

My pet peeve about using "height with shoes" measurements is that there seems to be fairly wide variation in how much taller players get when they put their shoes on. For example, according to DraftExpress.com (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/), Harry Giles is 6'10" with shoes while former Miami power forward Anthony King was listed at 6'9.75" with shoes. However, without shoes, Harry is listed at 6'9.25" and King was listed at 6'7". Does Harry really wear shoes with a 0.75" thick sole?

It seems that the "height with shoes" measurement opens up the opportunity for players to be listed according to how tall they would like to be perceived. I would prefer to know how tall they actually are. Regardless of whether they are listed with or without shoes, I would just like the measurement to be accurate.

Wa-a-a-y back in the Bubas era and when Dean Smith was just starting out, the tendency was to understate the height of tall players. In part there was some gamesmanship, and in part it was because really tall guys were seen as "freaks." In 1962 duke sophomore Jay Buckley was listed as 6'11' and freshman Hack Tyson was listed as 7'0". The following year they were both listed as 6'10".

[devildeac]

I thought the only accepted measure on DBR was cinder blocks?

IBUs and ABV are also acceptable...

Oh, sorry, wrong board :o :rolleyes: .

[Newton_14]

Wa-a-a-y back in the Bubas era and when Dean Smith was just starting out, the tendency was to understate the height of tall players. In part there was some gamesmanship, and in part it was because really tall guys were seen as "freaks." In 1962 duke sophomore Jay Buckley was listed as 6'11' and freshman Hack Tyson was listed as 7'0". The following year they were both listed as 6'10".

Great memory sage. For years Dean Smith refused to list any player at 7'0 or taller, even though he had like nine of them every year or something. Maybe Jim or Oly can remind us the reasoning. I remember the reasoning being silly but can' quite recall exactly why Dean did that. Some element of gamesmanship as you opine or ego...

[MChambers]

Great memory sage. For years Dean Smith refused to list any player at 7'0 or taller, even though he had like nine of them every year or something. Maybe Jim or Oly can remind us the reasoning. I remember the reasoning being silly but can' quite recall exactly why Dean did that. Some element of gamesmanship as you opine or ego...

Wasn't Walton listed at 6'11", even though he was much taller (or higher)?

[Newton_14]

Wasn't Walton listed at 6'11", even though he was much taller (or higher)?

I think so yeah. I thought he was easily 7'0.

[Philadukie]

It seems in the last two games that Amile has settled into what he does best, which is rebounding and creating points off of crafty pivot moves and hard-to-block angles in the post. His attempts to handle the ball on the break and create on the perimeter with dribbling and passing seem to be gone now, unlike the first several games, where his points and rebounds were down and his turnovers were up.

I recall him saying in an article before the season started that the coaches wanted him to be the Draymond Green of the team, which seemed odd to me, because it might take him away from what he does best. Glad to see that maybe that experiment is over, and he's back to his natural role. Hopefully it's permanent and not temporary while the other big men are out.

[uh_no]

taller (or higher)?

or both...heh heh.

[gep]

It seems in the last two games that Amile has settled into what he does best, which is rebounding and creating points off of crafty pivot moves and hard-to-block angles in the post. His attempts to handle the ball on the break and create on the perimeter with dribbling and passing seem to be gone now, unlike the first several games, where his points and rebounds were down and his turnovers were up.

I recall him saying in an article before the season started that the coaches wanted him to be the Draymond Green of the team, which seemed odd to me, because it might take him away from what he does best. Glad to see that maybe that experiment is over, and he's back to his natural role. Hopefully it's permanent and not temporary while the other big men are out.

But, if I recall correctly, towards the end of the Rhode Island game, he was the one who brought the ball up-court from deep in the back court... many times signalling to the others to go to the front court... like he's OK back there... :cool:

[BD80]

Wasn't Walton listed at 6'11", even though he was much taller (or higher)?


or both...heh heh.

As he ages, he's not as tall ...

[Indoor66]

As he ages, he's not as tall ...

But be does remain higher....😎

[Saratoga2]

You know what might be a much more helpful rubric? How about standing reach instead of height? Maybe standing reach is a more relevant measurement than height, anyway.

That number is also recorded at the NBA pre-draft camp.

[Spanarkel]

But be does remain higher...😎



Speaking of Walton, has anyone been elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame with fewer NBA points(6,215)or games played(468) than BW? Obviously his role in the UCLA dynasty is THE reason he's in the HoF. It seems like he received a huge mulligan for his injury-plagued pro career. I know that his play was brilliant at times in the NBA. He was a one-time league MVP and one-time Finals MVP and one-time First Team All NBA. I know I am biased as I still savor DT and NCState effectively ending the UCLA era in the '74 Final Four.

[English]

But, if I recall correctly, towards the end of the Rhode Island game, he was the one who brought the ball up-court from deep in the back court... many times signalling to the others to go to the front court... like he's OK back there... :cool:

When they went full-court press down the stretch, Amile was an effective outlet and, at times, brought the ball up when the guards were struggling to advance it. Amile is still shaky with his handles, but he's proficient enough to bring the ball across the timeline against other bigs. It was an effective press breaker. It was also very nice to see Amile immediately hand the ball back to the guards once in the frontcourt. Coach K (and other smart coaches) have used capable bigs to advance the ball against press defense in the past, as well--Ingram (playing the 4) is our most recent example, but I recall Mason doing it occasionally his senior year, Justise did it at times.

[Indoor66]

When they went full-court press down the stretch, Amile was an effective outlet and, at times, brought the ball up when the guards were struggling to advance it. Amile is still shaky with his handles, but he's proficient enough to bring the ball across the timeline against other bigs. It was an effective press breaker. It was also very nice to see Amile immediately hand the ball back to the guards once in the frontcourt. Coach K (and other smart coaches) have used capable bigs to advance the ball against press defense in the past, as well--Ingram (playing the 4) is our most recent example, but I recall Mason doing it occasionally his senior year, Justise did it at times.

I believe that McRoberts also did this when here. He still does it in the Pros.

[Billy Dat]

When they went full-court press down the stretch, Amile was an effective outlet and, at times, brought the ball up when the guards were struggling to advance it. Amile is still shaky with his handles, but he's proficient enough to bring the ball across the timeline against other bigs. It was an effective press breaker. It was also very nice to see Amile immediately hand the ball back to the guards once in the frontcourt. Coach K (and other smart coaches) have used capable bigs to advance the ball against press defense in the past, as well--Ingram (playing the 4) is our most recent example, but I recall Mason doing it occasionally his senior year, Justise did it at times.

During the 2013 season, I remember Ryan Kelly doing this much more than Mason. I specifically remember when we won a very tough Battle 4 Atlantis, both Shaka Smart and Rick Pitino crediting Kelly's ability to bring up the ball against pressure as keys to the Duke victories. Ryan's injury that year was brutal.

[English]

During the 2013 season, I remember Ryan Kelly doing this much more than Mason. I specifically remember when we won a very tough Battle 4 Atlantis, both Shaka Smart and Rick Pitino crediting Kelly's ability to bring up the ball against pressure as keys to the Duke victories. Ryan's injury that year was brutal.

Ah, excellent correction--I remember that tournament and RK's effectiveness. Point stands, but you're absolutely right.

[Billy Dat]

Ah, excellent correction--I remember that tournament and RK's effectiveness. Point stands, but you're absolutely right.

You were right about Mason, too, and K's currently stellar reputation with developing big men was jump started by the Plumlee/Kelly era. Mason handles the ball a fair amount in Portland, they use him as a distributor quite a bit.

Meanwhile, not to hype a Wildcat, but, my goodness, look at what Karl Anthony Towns did last night on this sequence. 7 footers definitely need to be able to handle the ball these days, but what this kid is pulling out of his trick bag is ridiculous

https://twitter.com/fullcourtprez/status/800870759874838531/video/1

[MChambers]

I believe that McRoberts also did this when here. He still does it in the Pros.

He was key to destroying the Texas press, as I recall, when Duke's backcourt wasn't all that quick or good at limiting turnovers. Think that was the game where JJ went off for 40+.

[BandAlum83]

For what it's worth, I asked my daughter about Luke's height. She went through the security line at the Cincinnati airport right behind him this summer. Her comment was that he's "very tall", and has to be well above 6'5". And she's 5'11" herself so it's not like she has no perspective on height.

Seems like the estimates of 6'7" might be closer to accurate.

So good to have some objective scientific analysis injected into this debate! ;)

[BandAlum83]

Wa-a-a-y back in the Bubas era and when Dean Smith was just starting out, the tendency was to understate the height of tall players. In part there was some gamesmanship, and in part it was because really tall guys were seen as "freaks." In 1962 duke sophomore Jay Buckley was listed as 6'11' and freshman Hack Tyson was listed as 7'0". The following year they were both listed as 6'10".

Mike Gminski was listed at 6'11 and everyone believed he was 7' or more. He graduated in 1980.

[uh_no]

But be does remain higher...😎

have you heard about his idea about who should be the title holder? (see bill walton title thread)

[NSDukeFan]

You were right about Mason, too, and K's currently stellar reputation with developing big men was jump started by the Plumlee/Kelly era. Mason handles the ball a fair amount in Portland, they use him as a distributor quite a bit.

Meanwhile, not to hype a Wildcat, but, my goodness, look at what Karl Anthony Towns did last night on this sequence. 7 footers definitely need to be able to handle the ball these days, but what this kid is pulling out of his trick bag is ridiculous

https://twitter.com/fullcourtprez/status/800870759874838531/video/1

Wow! That is quite a move.

[slower]

Great memory sage. For years Dean Smith refused to list any player at 7'0 or taller, even though he had like nine of them every year or something. Maybe Jim or Oly can remind us the reasoning. I remember the reasoning being silly but can' quite recall exactly why Dean did that. Some element of gamesmanship as you opine or ego...

Didn't Dean also list himself as being 4'11" ?

[rsvman]

Didn't Dean also list himself as being 4'11" ?

Maybe he was referring to mental stature.

[slower]

I recall him saying in an article before the season started that the coaches wanted him to be the Draymond Green of the team, which seemed odd to me, because it might take him away from what he does best.

Has Amile shot any mid-range jumpers at all this year? I still haven't seen him try one.

[slower]

Maybe he was referring to mental stature.

That's mental stature without shoes on.

[BD80]

Didn't Dean also list himself as being 4'11" ?

That was lying down, with nose hair combed down.

[pfrduke]

Has Amile shot any mid-range jumpers at all this year? I still haven't seen him try one.

In one of the first two games (I think maybe Marist) he took a 15 footer from the left baseline, which if I remember correctly did not go in.

[flyingdutchdevil]

In one of the first two games (I think maybe Marist) he took a 15 footer from the left baseline, which if I remember correctly did not go in.

But Amile probably shot fakes around 6-8 times a game before either a) dribbling to the basket or b) handing off the ball to a guard.

Love Amile, but that shot fake has to be the most useless move in basketball. It accomplishes nothing, given the scouting report on Amile likely states, "give him space outside of 12 feet. It's not that he can't make a mid-range, it's that he doesn't take them."

I'd love to see Amile use these upcoming cupcake games to practice shooting the middie. It will answer one of 3 fan questions (in addition to 'can Matt Jones dunk', which was solved earlier this year, and 'what would Kennard do with his hands if you shaved his head').

[Neals384]

I'd love to see Amile use these upcoming cupcake games to practice shooting the middie. It will answer one of 3 fan questions (in addition to 'can Matt Jones dunk', which was solved earlier this year, and 'what would Kennard do with his hands if you shaved his head').

Umm, not sure I want to know the answer to that last one.

[BD80]

... 'what would Kennard do with his hands if you shaved his head').

You mean AFTER choking the life out of you?

[BandAlum83]

Didn't Dean also list himself as being 4'11" ?

Couldn't be. That's way too tall for a troll!

[lotusland]

That whole incident was strange...in an NBA arena, a fan like that would definitely be thrown out, unless they were a VIP in super high priced seats. Part of the issue might have been the lack of a definitive camera angle -- the replays I saw didn't have enough angles to provide full context after Luke took the shot and fell. I'm assuming the fact that this was a minor tournament accounted for the lack of cameras.

On the Amile rebound basket that was ruled not to have beaten the shot clock in the second half, the only angle they showed on ESPN made it impossible for the officials to determine whether the ball was out of his fingertips. For many major televised college games and all NBA games, you get much better (and closer) angles that what was provided on today's broadcast.

Yeah I thought that call was strange. It was called a basket in real time but waived off after the review. According to the announcer the refs said they just couldn't tell so they "had to waive it off." You have to waive off a basket that was called good initially because the replay was inconclusive? Did the announcer misstate the refs call or is that actually a rule? Seems like if you call it one way and the replay is not definitive, the basket should count. Also there was no problem with the replay angle. It was just extremely close. Looked like maybe his index finger might still be in contact with the ball when the clock hit zero but I couldn't say for sure. It was closer than the possible touch by Justise of the ball going out of bounds along the baseline against Wiskey in the championship game.

[Newton_14]

But Amile probably shot fakes around 6-8 times a game before either a) dribbling to the basket or b) handing off the ball to a guard.

Love Amile, but that shot fake has to be the most useless move in basketball. It accomplishes nothing, given the scouting report on Amile likely states, "give him space outside of 12 feet. It's not that he can't make a mid-range, it's that he doesn't take them."

I'd love to see Amile use these upcoming cupcake games to practice shooting the middie. It will answer one of 3 fan questions (in addition to 'can Matt Jones dunk', which was solved earlier this year, and 'what would Kennard do with his hands if you shaved his head').

Pretty sure he's made at least 1 mid-range jumper so far. He took them in the practices I saw as well. The thing is, despite the accurate scouting report, there are guys that still fall for it and watch helplessly as he drives it by them for a layup. Shot fakes are great weapons, especially for guys that are good shooters.

Speaking of mid-range jumpers, I wish Grayson would shoot more of them while he is playing hurt. He is still money with those.

[gep]

Yeah I thought that call was strange. It was called a basket in real time but waived off after the review. According to the announcer the refs said they just couldn't tell so they "had to waive it off." You have to waive off a basket that was called good initially because the replay was inconclusive? Did the announcer misstate the refs call or is that actually a rule? Seems like if you call it one way and the replay is not definitive, the basket should count. Also there was no problem with the replay angle. It was just extremely close. Looked like maybe his index finger might still be in contact with the ball when the clock hit zero but I couldn't say for sure. It was closer than the possible touch by Justise of the ball going out of bounds along the baseline against Wiskey in the championship game.

I will always give the refs the "Amile" call if the refs continue to give the "Justise" call in an NC game :cool:

[kmspeaks]

Speaking of mid-range jumpers, I wish Grayson would shoot more of them while he is playing hurt. He is still money with those.

I wonder if slamming on the brakes to pull up for a mid-range jumper would be pretty painful on an injured toe.

[Newton_14]

I wonder if slamming on the brakes to pull up for a mid-range jumper would be pretty painful on an injured toe.

Fair point, but the one he took and made Sunday looked to not have caused him much pain. That was a weird sequence too. As he was making the shot, Amile got fouled while battling for rebound position, so the basket counted and we then inbounded under our basket. Not sure I have ever seen that happen before.