MBB: Duke vs Rhode Island Pre-Game & In-Game Thread (Sun Nov 20, 1:00 ET, ESPN)

[Troublemaker]

Discuss the game here.

Duke vs Danny Hurley, again.

The Rhode Island campus is very close by. Tomorrow might be a road game.

The Ringer wrote a story (https://theringer.com/rhode-island-rams-cinderella-b86c653f086c#.6y0p1ehvc) previewing this season's Rhode Island team.

[gofurman]

Discuss the game here.

Duke vs Danny Hurley, again.

The Rhode Island campus is very close by. Tomorrow might be a road game.

The Ringer wrote a story (https://theringer.com/rhode-island-rams-cinderella-b86c653f086c#.6y0p1ehvc) previewing this season's Rhode Island team.

We played a horrible rebounding team today in PennState. And got out rebounded by one. 38-37. They - PSU - were ranked about 300 of 320 D1 teams in rebounding Those stats from having played Grand Canyon and Albany etc. so they are a bad rebounding team. And they got more boards than us.

Tomorrow we could get killed on the boards or in a game soon. Without Jeter, Obi - is he ever going to play ? - or one of the freshman we have only Amile basically. And the four guards.

[gofurman]

We played a horrible rebounding team today in PennState. And got out rebounded by one. 38-37. They - PSU - were ranked about 300 of 320 D1 teams in rebounding Those stats from having played Grand Canyon and Albany etc. so they are a bad rebounding team. And they got more boards than us.

Tomorrow we could get killed on the boards or in a game soon. Without Jeter, Obi - is he ever going to play ? - or one of the freshman we have only Amile basically. And the four guards.

What TV is covering this ? ESPN. ? Is it on ESPN3 also?

Notes
-Jarvis Garrett is out (sadly) for this game. He is URIs leading assist man. Scary today - off w a stretcher. Good news is he just sprained his neck. Will be ok
-leading scorer is EC Matthew w 20 pts every 25 minutes. That's efficient. 6'5 guard junior
- also Hassan Martin does a lot of good work at 6'7" 235 averaging 13 pts and 9 reb . Senior forward

[Mrezt]

Was hoping to have a post game press conference up by now to see if K said anything regarding Tatum playing tomorrow. I'm assuming since no news came out concerning it, then the rumor that I heard suggesting such is false. Would love for it to be true by some miracle though. If tomorrow we have the 3 freshman + Jeter out, I think it's gonna be a struggle. Like gofurman said, we could get killed in rebounding, and punished for it.

Vrank was pretty good in the first half today, and then not so good the second half. Can he contribute vs RI if needed? Guess we'll see! Same with Javin, although I just think it was all 'not so good' today. The athletic ability is there, but he's still learning the game I guess. I did notice that during the game he sat next to Nate James for the majority of the game, hopefully hes taking in all the coaching.

Unless theres a miracle (Tatum returning), this game will probably be a grind, and frustrating. It would be nice to see Allen go off for 25 points or so along with Frank and/or Luke and blow them out though lol

[Dukehky]

We played a horrible rebounding team today in PennState. And got out rebounded by one. 38-37. They - PSU - were ranked about 300 of 320 D1 teams in rebounding Those stats from having played Grand Canyon and Albany etc. so they are a bad rebounding team. And they got more boards than us.

Tomorrow we could get killed on the boards or in a game soon. Without Jeter, Obi - is he ever going to play ? - or one of the freshman we have only Amile basically. And the four guards.

No. Sean Obi is not physically able to play basketball at any kind of competitive level anymore. His knees are shot.

He hasn't played in any exhibitions or scrimmages and is extremely limited in practices. He is a smart young man who I wish could have stayed healthy enough to see his decision to play at Duke come to fruition.

[DukieTiger]

Call me pessimistic, but I'm fully expecting URI to pull away from Duke as Duke's 5-man rotation falters down the stretch and is visibly gassed. After the game, K will talk about how short-handed Duke is right now, ignoring the 3 warm (healthy) bodies he did not play.

We're all waiting for the Grayson breakout game and tomorrow would sure be nice. But he is banged up and seems like he needs some rest to get out of this funk. He is 8-30 on threes so far. I think it'll be a couple more games before he looks like the old Grayson. Maybe in December.

I would love to be wrong and see a strong effort tomorrow. What I saw today was discouraging though,and I think this URI team is really good.

[DukieInBrasil]

We played a horrible rebounding team today in PennState. And got out rebounded by one. 38-37. They - PSU - were ranked about 300 of 320 D1 teams in rebounding Those stats from having played Grand Canyon and Albany etc. so they are a bad rebounding team. And they got more boards than us.

Tomorrow we could get killed on the boards or in a game soon. Without Jeter, Obi - is he ever going to play ? - or one of the freshman we have only Amile basically. And the four guards.

Actually Duke outrebounded PSU 38-37 (according to ESPN box score). Also, we have Vrank and Javin. They played 10 minutes total tonight. I have no insight in to why K doesn't play Vrank, he's a solid FT shooter, and grabbed 3 rebs in 7 minutes (17.1 reb/40mins which was only marginally less than Amile's 17.2 rebs/40mins). He played 0 mins against KU, when they were playing a dude bigger than everyone on Duke, other than Vrank, and the dude was grabbing up all the rebs. K made a major mistake in that game by not playing Vrank at all. Javin was practically useless tonight, although his energy and athleticism indicate that he might be able to do something valuable. Since Chase won't play tomorrow and Jayson is virtually guaranteed not to play tomorrow, i would be shocked if neither Vrank nor Javin play.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Actually Duke outrebounded PSU 38-37 (according to ESPN box score). Also, we have Vrank and Javin. They played 10 minutes total tonight. I have no insight in to why K doesn't play Vrank, he's a solid FT shooter, and grabbed 3 rebs in 7 minutes (17.1 reb/40mins which was only marginally less than Amile's 17.2 rebs/40mins). He played 0 mins against KU, when they were playing a dude bigger than everyone on Duke, other than Vrank, and the dude was grabbing up all the rebs. K made a major mistake in that game by not playing Vrank at all. Javin was practically useless tonight, although his energy and athleticism indicate that he might be able to do something valuable. Since Chase won't play tomorrow and Jayson is virtually guaranteed not to play tomorrow, i would be shocked if neither Vrank nor Javin play.

Without Chase, we are basically rocking a 5 man "rotation." I assume that we'll see Vrankovic and DeLaurier if only for spot minutes while the 5 starters rest from time to time. I know we are banged up, but I honestly can't understand why Jack White doesn't get 5 minutes a half just to keep the starters a little less gassed. But I'm not the one making decisions.

[DukieTiger]

Without Chase, we are basically rocking a 5 man "rotation." I assume that we'll see Vrankovic and DeLaurier if only for spot minutes while the 5 starters rest from time to time. I know we are banged up, but I honestly can't understand why Jack White doesn't get 5 minutes a half just to keep the starters a little less gassed. But I'm not the one making decisions.

From what others have asserted, my understanding is that they're intentionally letting them get gassed right now to train them to play gassed later in the season.

[Bob Green]

Injuries are my number one concern for this team. Chase Jeter rolling his ankle yesterday exacerbates the situation and the nagging little injuries Grayson Allen is dealing with are troublesome. Hopefully the youngsters get healthy enough to play soon but I certainly am not advocating playing someone before they are physical ready to go. It's a long season.

Vrankovic and DeLaurier combined for 10 minutes yesterday. I'd like to see Vrankovic play more as he demonstrates a lot of potential to be a rebounding monster. The inability to stay out of foul trouble is a limiting factor.

[dukelifer]

I would suggest 4 corners the whole game and jacking up 3's for 2's. May need 50 from Kennard. Seriously- K will play his bench today but probably not for a good reason. This is as banged up as I have ever seen a Duke team. At some point- you don't have the players to compete.

[richardjackson199]

I am not in the camp of "if we lose this game it will be all good." No it's not over. But we need to win this game.

If we have 2 losses before Thanksgiving, playing well enough the rest of the year to earn a #1 seed will be extremely difficult. The ACC is unusually tough this year, and road losses should be expected with our tough road schedule. On the other hand, you have to expect that Villanova and Kentucky will account for two #1 seeds with the Big East and SEC offering little resistance. Teams from the Big 12 (Kansas), Big 10 (Indiana), Pac 12 (Oregon, Arizona), and ACC (UNC, UVA, Louisville, etc.) could all be vying for 1 seeds (along with others).

Earning a #1 seed is crucial to chances of winning a Natty. Of course it can be done without a 1 seed and it happens all the time. But in March and April, to have the best chances to win you want the best road to the championship. One seeds are much better than 2 seeds. If chalk advances, a 2 seed could have to beat a 15 (not sure win like a 16), a 7, a 3 Seed, and a #1 seed just to make the Final Four where they could have to beat two more #1 seeds to win it all. A 1 seed can't face another 1 seed until the Final Four, and can't face only one of a 2 seed or 3 seed until the elite 8. Thus the best teams to possibly face the 1 seed have more games to play and more time to get upset before even playing them.

I know several of you could pick this argument apart and find all sorts of examples. That is fine. My point is that you probably can't argue that by far the best chance of winning a national championship comes from earning a #1 seed. I don't want to leave it up to a committee to say "well Duke was hurt when they lost those Nov. games." I don't expect them to say that, and frankly I don't agree with that reasoning anyway. #1 seeds must be earned, and should go to the 4 teams who earn them most with their full body of work.

We also play Michigan State this month. I'd love to see Duke find a way to enter January with just the Kansas loss. My point is that these November out of conference games do matter, because they become very important for seeding.

Go Duke! Let's get this win.

[Saratoga2]

Injuries are my number one concern for this team. Chase Jeter rolling his ankle yesterday exacerbates the situation and the nagging little injuries Grayson Allen is dealing with are troublesome. Hopefully the youngsters get healthy enough to play soon but I certainly am not advocating playing someone before they are physical ready to go. It's a long season.

Vrankovic and DeLaurier combined for 10 minutes yesterday. I'd like to see Vrankovic play more as he demonstrates a lot of potential to be a rebounding monster. The inability to stay out of foul trouble is a limiting factor.

Yes, we should play our 2nd tier players, even if it means losing the game. Running our 5 first tier players out there for 40 minutes will probably mean losing any way.

One point I will make again is that Luke has got to find a way to get to the foul line more than for 2 shots. He is our best foul shooter and has enough moves to get fouled more often. He just has to become more aggressive with his offense. I think he only went to the basket one time in the second half and on that one he took an extra step.

[Bob Green]

I know several of you could pick this argument apart and find all sorts of examples. That is fine. My point is that you probably can't argue that by far the best chance of winning a national championship comes from earning a #1 seed. I don't want to leave it up to a committee to say "well Duke was hurt when they lost those Nov. games." I don't expect them to say that, and frankly I don't agree with that reasoning anyway. #1 seeds must be earned, and should go to the 4 teams who earn them most with their full body of work.



I'm not going to try an pick your argument apart because I basically agree with you. However, I am a little less concerned with the outcome of today's game because:

a) I believe we will win.
b) We have four rotation players unavailable due to injury and their long term health and availability to play in 2017 is much more important to the team than a November game.

[Billy Dat]

The Duke injury bug is so bizarre that we are in uncharted waters.

For some URI game optimism, I offer the following from ESPN college basketball quant John Gasaway

@JohnGasaway
I'd rate an injury ravaged Duke that's down to Jefferson, Allen, Jones, Kennard and Jackson as stronger than last year's less ravaged team.
Sure a healthier roster will eventually allow these guys to record healthier numbers for minutes, just saying, URI faces a tough opponent.

Does that mean K can repeat one of the all time great huddle quites, "Just be you, you is enough?"

I'm at the point where it's just watch and experience. Without knowing when anyone is coming back, let's hope the "5 forwards" can get it done.

[arnie]

I'm not going to try an pick your argument apart because I basically agree with you. However, I am a little less concerned with the outcome of today's game because:

a) I believe we will win.
b) We have four rotation players unavailable due to injury and their long term health and availability to play in 2017 is much more important to the team than a November game.

I think Allen's collection of injuries may be more significant than Tatum's injury; therefore, could consider 5 rotation players unavailable. If we are exposing Allen to further injury and protecting Tatum against similar outcome, is that due to outside influences? Regardless, I'd like to see Allen rested today and roll the dice with White, Javin etc.

[MarkD83]

I will first take Coach K at his word and the three freshman and of course Sean won't play. Chase will also join them on the bench. The only question for the 5 of them is how intimidating will they look.

Without 4 of them Duke lost to Kansas by one shot at the buzzer and had the PSU game under control the whole time without the 5 of them for most of the game. The matching blue suits and ties were a nice touch for MSG and of course the matching warm ups for PSU gave the feel that they were one step closer to playing.

So imagine opposing coaches looking at the 5 of them and still seeing Duke winning and wondering what they are going to do in January when they play Duke.

Of course Amile being back is great and he is playing like the Amile of last year before he got hurt. Luke has upped his game from last year, Matt is playing great D and showing the shooting touch that was his calling card when he was recruited. Grayson is the "let's go" Grayson we saw last year. Finally, Frank is better than expected and not playing like a freshman.

I know they are tired now but there are several extended breaks to get everyone rest and make sure the freshman in the suits are integrated back into the game.

So my read on this game. Beat RI and it starts to solidify the #1 seed in the NCAA. The committee will remember that Duke won this game with 5 injured players 4 of whom are available in March (I am a realist about Sean's chances to play).

[richardjackson199]

I'm not going to try an pick your argument apart because I basically agree with you. However, I am a little less concerned with the outcome of today's game because:

a) I believe we will win.
b) We have four rotation players unavailable due to injury and their long term health and availability to play in 2017 is much more important to the team than a November game.

I agree with all of this too, including point b. I believe we will find a way to win today. It's not a "must-win", but it's very important that we do. Of course winning the ACC regular season and tourney would likely solidify a 1 seed as well. We should be the favorite to do that when healthy. But we know that will be difficult this year with unbalanced schedules and many very good teams giving Duke their best shot in front of their ravenous home crowds.

The road to a National Championship comes with adversity. I think we actually will find out quite a bit about our team today (as much as we can about a team missing 5 key players). We will find a way to win with the heart, soul, and experienced core of our team.

The time to find our heart and fight is now.

[Troublemaker]

If we have 2 losses before Thanksgiving, playing well enough the rest of the year to earn a #1 seed will be extremely difficult.

The Selection Committee will discount these losses if Duke plays like a 1 seed when all our players are healthy, which should result in a 1 seed. It's not a 100% lock because we're dealing with a group of humans here, but it's in the Selection Committee's guidelines to account for injury AND I feel they've done a decent job of it in the past.


On the other hand, you have to expect that Villanova and Kentucky will account for two #1 seeds with the Big East and SEC offering little resistance.

Oh, I wouldn't lock Nova and UK up for 1 seeds just yet. It's way too early.

[budwom]

Just a weird turn of events. Coming into this season we had clearly one of the best rosters of big men we've ever had, and here we are
playing small ball again with Amile and the four guards. Maybe we'll see some zone with Vranc and Javin, who knows...

[Troublemaker]

URI's point guard will play, despite leaving on a stretcher yesterday. Good for him. Maybe Duke can get some sort of good news like that for Chase.

Jeff GoodmanVerified account ‏@GoodmanESPN (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN) 17m17 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/800356594131337216)
Huge news for URI: Jarvis Garrett has been cleared and will play today against Duke, Dan Hurley told ESPN. 1 pm on ESPN.

[Troublemaker]

Duke has opened as 8-pt favorites. That's a nice big spread that's very appealing to those who would be inclined to emotionally hedge on this game. Duke wins by 5, for example, and you're doubly happy.

[budwom]

Duke has opened as 8-pt favorites. That's a nice big spread that's very appealing to those who would be inclined to emotionally hedge on this game. Duke wins by 5, for example, and you're doubly happy.

Will they press?

[superdave]

It sounds like a lot of people are negative on Duke's chances today. The injuries certainly point to a possible upset. This same unit played through similar circumstances last season, and they are now a year older and wiser. They won games just like this last season.

The injuries have limited Duke's ability to roll out the disruptive press they were playing a week ago. You dont want Amile and Grayson getting gassed pressing I suppose. But you could use Javin for a few spot minutes to be the head of a press.

Duke needs to focus on defensive rebounding and hopefully shoot a little better from deep to win this thing. They will need to dig deep to win, but you have to dig deep a lot to be the team these guys want to become. Why not start now?

[jasoninchina]

I am not quoting so as to not single the culprit out. I vehemently disagree with anyone calling anyone "useless." Everyone in the world has gifts given to him/her by God. Even if someone is not playing basketball to the level you think he should be playing, he is not useless. Instead, he is useful and someone we should heartily be thankful decided to play in our elite program. The only thing that is useless is to disagree with this since you know I am right! Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. LGD!

[fuse]

I am not quoting so as to not single the culprit out. I vehemently disagree with anyone calling anyone "useless." Everyone in the world has gifts given to him/her by God. Even if someone is not playing basketball to the level you think he should be playing, he is not useless. Instead, he is useful and someone we should heartily be thankful decided to play in our elite program. The only thing that is useless is to disagree with this since you know I am right! Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. LGD!

Just going to add in addition to bravo and thank you, DBR would be a better board if we all embraced this approach.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

URI's point guard will play, despite leaving on a stretcher yesterday. Good for him. Maybe Duke can get some sort of good news like that for Chase.

Jeff GoodmanVerified account ‏@GoodmanESPN (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN) 17m17 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/800356594131337216)
Huge news for URI: Jarvis Garrett has been cleared and will play today against Duke, Dan Hurley told ESPN. 1 pm on ESPN.


Good news. Glad to hear the injury isn't serious.

[dukelion]

Maybe some good news.

Duke Basketball
‏@dukebasketball
Chase Jeter has come out on to the floor walking gingerly but not wearing a boot. He's warming up slowly.

[JasonEvans]

Goodman says Chase is going go try to play today. I would not expect much out of him but if he can alter a few shots and grab a few rebounds it will be huge.

We probably need 2 of Kennard, Allen, and Jackson to have a good day from the field.

-Jason "the notion that a loss here would actually have a meaningful impact on how the selection committee sees Duke in March is laughably foolish" Evans

[Bob Green]

Goodman says Chase is going go try to play today. I would not expect much out of him but if he can alter a few shots and grab a few rebounds it will be huge.

I'd prefer to see Vrankovic play than Jeter out there hobbling on a bad ankle. Vrankovic has a huge upside in my opinion. The propensity to foul is his big limiter at this time.

[richardjackson199]

Goodman says Chase is going go try to play today. I would not expect much out of him but if he can alter a few shots and grab a few rebounds it will be huge.

We probably need 2 of Kennard, Allen, and Jackson to have a good day from the field.

-Jason "the notion that a loss here would actually have a meaningful impact on how the selection committee sees Duke in March is laughably foolish" Evans

Laughably foolish? I'm glad I amuse you, but that's a little harsh.

Agree to disagree. Out of conference losses matter to the selection committee. They sit around and talk about that stuff. #1 seeds are based on body of work. A record of 3-2 now is not on track to earn a #1 seed, because unfortunately, we are likely to lose more games. We are going to be competing with lots of other deserving teams for #1 seeds. I don't think the committee will prioritize the RSCI rating of a team's players as much as they will prioritize the number of wins and losses. Yes they will consider injuries. But they will not totally discount nonconference losses. To think they will is laughably foolish.

[JNort]

Laughably foolish? I'm glad I amuse you, but that's a little harsh.

Agree to disagree. Out of conference losses matter to the selection committee. They sit around and talk about that stuff. #1 seeds are based on body of work. A record of 3-2 now is not on track to earn a #1 seed, because unfortunately, we are likely to lose more games. We are going to be competing with lots of other deserving teams for #1 seeds. I don't think the committee will prioritize the RSCI rating of a team's players as much as they will prioritize the number of wins and losses. Yes they will consider injuries. But they will not totally discount nonconference losses. To think they will is laughably foolish.

Um no. JE is correct on this.

[Troublemaker]

They will need to dig deep to win, but you have to dig deep a lot to be the team these guys want to become. Why not start now?

I'm hesitant to frame it like that because, if Duke loses, does that mean our guys didn't dig deep enough? We're in a situation where you can dig deep and still lose. 5th game in 10 days. Games on back-to-back days. 5, maybe 6-man rotation.

Fatigue makes cowards of us all. If things go poorly today, I would recommend everyone just scrub the game from your minds because it will have no bearing on anything going forward. If they play bad basketball, if they make silly decisions, if they seemingly can't muster the effort in transition, fatigue makes you do weird things. Just scrub it if it goes badly.

[grossbus]

No chat?

[richardjackson199]

Um no. JE is correct on this.

Um thanks for the definitive word. I didn't realize you were on the selection committee. Congrats on the appointment.

[grossbus]

No outside shooting so far. Gotta hit J's.

[brevity]

No chat?

It's open: http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox

[WVDUKEFAN]

I love the look on Boldens face. He's ready to erupt. I can't wait to see him in the lineup

[slower]

Pretty sure that URI is not the least bit intimidated today. And they look like they're DEFINITELY trying to incite Grayson.

[grossbus]

Can't hit anything. Help!

[arnie]

Can't hit anything. Help!

Let's focus on the tripping, by don't we.

[heyman25]

Turnovers are out of control. Jones and Jefferson need to calm down. Very disjointed effort thus far.

[UrinalCake]

Well this game is certainly not a thing of beauty but we're doing enough to maintain the lead. Amile is everywhere on d. I expect RI to make a late run as our guys battle fatigue.

[rsvman]

The end of the half was handled very well, except that I would have given the last shot to Kennard rather than Jones.
Still, we took a game that was very close throughout and turned it into an 8-point lead.

[riverside6]

LIttle late to get these working, but live tempo-based stats for Duke/Rhode Island here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-rhode-island-basketball-live-stats-11202016

[Faison1]

Luke is good now....but he's going to be an amazing Junior and Senior. That kid's got game.

[kmspeaks]

What was the initial call on that basket by Amile at the end of the shot clock? I honestly could not tell on the replay so I would assume that would be a stick with the original call, but I never saw what that was.

[Trinity_93]

How do you claim there's enough video evidence to overturn that layup?

[arnie]

What was the initial call on that basket by Amile at the end of the shot clock? I honestly could not tell on the replay so I would assume that would be a stick with the original call, but I never saw what that was.

I think they initially called a shot clock violation. Scoeboard never changed. My unbiased eyes saw the shot as on time.

[juise]

What was the initial call on that basket by Amile at the end of the shot clock? I honestly could not tell on the replay so I would assume that would be a stick with the original call, but I never saw what that was.

I don't think there was an initial call, honestly. It was close, but It nought he got the shot off. It seemed like the frame they had with 1 on the clock had his hand touching the ball and the frame with 0 on the clock showed so,e separation.

[heyman25]

Time to close Rhode Island down.Steady play we are looking like a Duke team now.

[Trinity_93]

Jefferson, jefferson, jefferson!

[crf30]

They said the refs said they couldn't tell, so had to say no basket. So either they called it a shot clock violation initially, or else the rule must be, if in doubt, call it against Duke ;)