MBB: Duke 78, Penn State 68 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Ugly game, not a ton of bright spots, but won by 10 points without playing fully healthy or at our best. Let's get rested, get healthy, and hope that Cincinnati and Rhode Island goes through 5 OT.

[porkpa]

I never thought I'd ever see it, but Coach K had his team win today by playing Dean Smith basketball. What a boring excuse of a game.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

....TRUE GRIT!
Love,Ima

[Saratoga2]

Ugly game, not a ton of bright spots, but won by 10 points without playing fully healthy or at our best. Let's get rested, get healthy, and hope that Cincinnati and Rhode Island goes through 5 OT.

Could we suit up just one of our walking wounded? Now Jeter may not be in a position to play.

[CoachJ10]

Any chance Tatum or Bolden play tomorrow (especially if Chase is out)?

[CDu]

Great game from Jefferson. Strong effort from Jackson too. Uber-efficient day from Old Man Jones. Tough day for Kennard and Allen.

I hope Allen's toe injury doesn't linger. Flashes of Irving went through my head. I also hope Jeter's ankle isn't serious.

Really hoping our trio of injured frosh are due back soon.

[Isaac Sours]

Perhaps K will be forced to play Vrank or Delaurier. Or maybe we'll play the whole game with 5 people. Both scenarios are equally likely, sadly.

[DukieTiger]

I thought they lacked energy today- even before the injuries. Because of that, I'm really disappointed that Javin or Jack didn't get any/much burn. I know I should expect this, but on a back to back with a team that is already tired and worn thin, you'd think just a few minutes could give a boost and some energy.

Tomorrow is going to be a challenge.

[slower]

Tomorrow is going to be a challenge.

If they play like they played today, it may be more than a challenge. Of course, anything can happen. This season is starting to have an ominous feel. Hope the wind shifts soon.

[Bob Green]

The dominant takeaway from today's game is the ankle injury to Chase Jeter.

[DukieTiger]

If they play like they played today, it may be more than a challenge. Of course, anything can happen. This season is starting to have an ominous feel. Hope the wind shifts soon.

November is always a grind and Duke usually rolls through at full steam. December is a change of pace, and in some years I have thought it slowed certain Duke teams' momentum. Maybe it will be the opposite this year?

[jgehtland]

Perhaps K will be forced to play Vrank or Delaurier. Or maybe we'll play the whole game with 5 people. Both scenarios are equally likely, sadly.

It should be noted that Delaurier picked up two fouls in 30 seconds. And Vrank got 3 in slightly more playing time. Coach K seems to have a short leash for that; not like he didn't give them some burn.

I'm super sad to see Jeter go down. I hope he's back soon. He's really improved so much.

[mattman91]

Vigil time?

[grossbus]

Wouldn't be surprised if Chase is out 1-2 weeks. Swelling probably happening right now.

[devil84]

Because of that, I'm really disappointed that Javin or Jack didn't get any/much burn.

Regarding Javin: his stat line is goose eggs except for 2 fouls in apparently 8 seconds of play. Not many coaches will keep a player on the court if they extrapolate out that the player will give up 5 fouls in less than half a minute.

It's disappointing because we really could have used him. The good news is that he'll learn. This game just wasn't the game to let him learn.

As far as Jack, I don't have anything there other than what Coach has seen in practice that probably didn't match up well to what Penn State had on the court.

Here's hoping Jeter was out for precautionary reasons and will be back tomorrow.

[jimsumner]

Five recruited players 6-8 or taller not playing because of an injury of some sort.

Defies comprehension.

[DukieTiger]

Regarding Javin: his stat line is goose eggs except for 2 fouls in apparently 8 seconds of play. Not many coaches will keep a player on the court if they extrapolate out that the player will give up 5 fouls in less than half a minute.

It's disappointing because we really could have used him. The good news is that he'll learn. This game just wasn't the game to let him learn.

As far as Jack, I don't have anything there other than what Coach has seen in practice that probably didn't match up well to what Penn State had on the court.

Here's hoping Jeter was out for precautionary reasons and will be back tomorrow.

I totally get what you're saying. Some counterpoints:

Regarding Javin: he definitely should have come out with two quick fouls. But it feels like a missed opportunity to let him learn from it, not to put him back in for at least a couple of minutes in the second half. Then from a winning-the-game perspective, I don't see how he could have done anything- anything at all- to hurt their chances of winning. The defense was porous and they were already in foul trouble with the upperclassmen playing. I just don't get it, even though we've come to expect it from K.

Regarding Jack: I mean, I don't know what K would see that would suggest that Jack would match up with PSU any worse than any of the guys on the court. Defensively, he might not be getting it yet, but he's certainly capable of watching guards blow by him. And again, he'd at least give the starting guards a breather and some energy.

Regarding Jeter: No way he plays tomorrow, imo - just from seeing how they've been handling injuries this year.

Additional comment: color me very concerned about Grayson. He's playing hurt, and it's really showing.

And for the optimistic finish: this is a very long season and this team is going to look extremely different when they get back from their two, 10-day breaks in December. They'll get healthy and there is plenty of time to click. There are a few more cupcakes on the schedule to help the team work some kinks out, and they will get the depth back to practice and play at a high level of energy and quality. It's just hard (for this fan) to be patient.

[mattman91]

Wouldn't be surprised if Chase is out 1-2 weeks. Swelling probably happening right now.

So what you are saying is...

its over?

[OldPhiKap]

Five recruited players 6-8 or taller not playing because of an injury of some sort.

Defies comprehension.

It's over.

Okay, maybe not, but it's damn weird.

[dyedwab]

Five recruited players 6-8 or taller not playing because of an injury of some sort.

Defies comprehension.

I know this a bleak outlook, but I assume I'm not going to see any of the currently injured freshmen this year. Now, I will be thrilled if I am wrong, but right now, I assume our team is Grayson, Matt, Luke, Amile, Frank, and Chase when he comes back from injury, and maybe a few minutes each of Vrank and Javin in games against lesser competition.

I'm thrilled we won, but I feel, at this point, like this year will be a similar struggle to last year. (And, yes, I know that what for Duke is a year of struggle still lands us in the sweet 16).

Not feeling great about the season so far...

[arnie]

Perhaps K will be forced to play Vrank or Delaurier. Or maybe we'll play the whole game with 5 people. Both scenarios are equally likely, sadly.

If Grayson has a toe injury, rather see him rest and maybe play Tatum. Grayson's injury may be worse than Jayson's at this time.

[Dukehky]

Capel said that Jeter won't play tomorrow when he was interviewed at halftime.

Tomorrow is going to be bleak. Grayson is never not going to play though, he may be the first play who would ever slap K for suggesting such an atrocity.

That being said, Grayson hasn't been stellar this year when healthy, it could get ugly if he's not healthy enough to do what he does well.

I think all 3 of the big boys will be back within the next month though. Right now though, we look like the same team from last year except without 2 NBA players, one of whom is probably going to be an all-star.

[duke4ever19]

I know this a bleak outlook, but I assume I'm not going to see any of the currently injured freshmen this year. Now, I will be thrilled if I am wrong, but right now, I assume our team is Grayson, Matt, Luke, Amile, Frank, and Chase when he comes back from injury, and maybe a few minutes each of Vrank and Javin in games against lesser competition.

I'm thrilled we won, but I feel, at this point, like this year will be a similar struggle to last year. (And, yes, I know that what for Duke is a year of struggle still lands us in the sweet 16).

Not feeling great about the season so far...

You're giving word "bleak" a bad name with that prognostication. Throw in a unc championship and you have the apocalypse.

[ChillinDuke]

I know this a bleak outlook, but I assume I'm not going to see any of the currently injured freshmen this year. Now, I will be thrilled if I am wrong, but right now, I assume our team is Grayson, Matt, Luke, Amile, Frank, and Chase when he comes back from injury, and maybe a few minutes each of Vrank and Javin in games against lesser competition.

I'm thrilled we won, but I feel, at this point, like this year will be a similar struggle to last year. (And, yes, I know that what for Duke is a year of struggle still lands us in the sweet 16).

Not feeling great about the season so far...

But why in heck would you have that outlook? Because you're trying to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised? Or reverse jynx?

Because there's no way you would have that outlook if you're a reasonable person. It's not possible. They're gonna play. The posters that keep harping on none of the Freshman Ward playing this year are off the reservation. Completely.

As an example, what if I told you I believed the college basketball season was about to be canceled in January and kept harping on it from now until then. How would you view my belief? Would you find me to be insightful?

Rough game. There were glimpses of great ball movement. Amile was great. Jones was solid. Allen again looked meh. Jeter's injury looked scary based solely on his reaction.

I imagine we're going to struggle tomorrow regardless of opponent. We're thin and a bit discombobulated.

For Pete's sake, can someone explain why it seems like we hit the floor an inordinate amount of times per game compared to other teams? Allen and Jefferson in particular. We need to play in control. We're just asking for yet even more injuries when human bodies slam into wooden floors with frequency that defies physical explanation.

- Chillin

[devil84]

I totally get what you're saying. Some counterpoints:

Regarding Javin: he definitely should have come out with two quick fouls. But it feels like a missed opportunity to let him learn from it, not to put him back in for at least a couple of minutes in the second half. Then from a winning-the-game perspective, I don't see how he could have done anything- anything at all- to hurt their chances of winning. The defense was porous and they were already in foul trouble with the upperclassmen playing. I just don't get it, even though we've come to expect it from K.

Regarding Jack: I mean, I don't know what K would see that would suggest that Jack would match up with PSU any worse than any of the guys on the court. Defensively, he might not be getting it yet, but he's certainly capable of watching guards blow by him. And again, he'd at least give the starting guards a breather and some energy.

Regarding Jeter: No way he plays tomorrow, imo - just from seeing how they've been handling injuries this year.

Additional comment: color me very concerned about Grayson. He's playing hurt, and it's really showing.

And for the optimistic finish: this is a very long season and this team is going to look extremely different when they get back from their two, 10-day breaks in December. They'll get healthy and there is plenty of time to click. There are a few more cupcakes on the schedule to help the team work some kinks out, and they will get the depth back to practice and play at a high level of energy and quality. It's just hard (for this fan) to be patient.

I completely understand the concept of to resting veteran players and letting the inexperienced players gather some experience. The flip side is letting the experienced players learn to play through foul trouble and fatigue. Which is more valuable to the team as a whole? One can argue either way. We saw what Coach chose.

We're pretty certain that Grayson, Amile, Matt, and Luke will be in the rotation at the end of the season, and we've got three freshmen stars that will play with them. Annealing the veterans to make solid plays and communicate well through fatigue and fouls is a sound plan. When we get the injured frosh back, the veterans can focus on communicating with the guys that missed the first part of the season, hopefully catching them up quickly. That may be worth far more in the long run than a couple of minutes for freshmen that aren't likely to crack the rotation come conference play. And with the rate that Vrank and Javin picked up fouls today, it wasn't going to be much more than a couple of minutes.

[Troublemaker]

It's not just us, guys. This sounds way worse:

Busting BracketsVerified account ‏@BustingBrackets (https://twitter.com/BustingBrackets) 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BustingBrackets/status/800079058583293953)
Rhode Island point guard Jarvis Garrett is down. He hit his head after missing a layup. Stretcher coming out.

Winner of Rhode Island - Cincy will be our opponent tomorrow.

[Henderson]

Jeter is slated to play in front of his hometown friends and family in 3 weeks. For him to be unable to do so would be an enormous disappointment for him and his family, I'm sure.

[dukelifer]

Capel said that Jeter won't play tomorrow when he was interviewed at halftime.

Tomorrow is going to be bleak. Grayson is never not going to play though, he may be the first play who would ever slap K for suggesting such an atrocity.

That being said, Grayson hasn't been stellar this year when healthy, it could get ugly if he's not healthy enough to do what he does well.

I think all 3 of the big boys will be back within the next month though. Right now though, we look like the same team from last year except without 2 NBA players, one of whom is probably going to be an all-star.

If all the guys come back- then this will only make this team tougher and more determined. If they have to peak at the end to make a run- it may be better than being in the lead all season and having all those expectations. Everyone knows what is going on with Duke. It is not fun- but the guys are fighting and Jackson is becoming a player.

[DukieTiger]

I completely understand the concept of to resting veteran players and letting the inexperienced players gather some experience. The flip side is letting the experienced players learn to play through foul trouble and fatigue. Which is more valuable to the team as a whole? One can argue either way. We saw what Coach chose.

We're pretty certain that Grayson, Amile, Matt, and Luke will be in the rotation at the end of the season, and we've got three freshmen stars that will play with them. Annealing the veterans to make solid plays and communicate well through fatigue and fouls is a sound plan. When we get the injured frosh back, the veterans can focus on communicating with the guys that missed the first part of the season, hopefully catching them up quickly. That may be worth far more in the long run than a couple of minutes for freshmen that aren't likely to crack the rotation come conference play. And with the rate that Vrank and Javin picked up fouls today, it wasn't going to be much more than a couple of minutes.

Do these upperclassmen really need to learn to play through fouls and fatigue? These in particular, who went through last season?

I'd think the greater risk of injury while playing fatigued would trump that at a certain point, anyway.

[Ichabod Drain]

Cincinatti and Rhode Island coming down to the wire. Image Duke would rather face Rhode Island, Cincinatti is a pretty big team.

[Neals384]

Wow, lotta Negative Nancy's here. I didn't see the game, but from the box score:

5 players with between 12-17 points; great balance
Amile with 16 and 15 boards. Who's the last Dukie to put up 15 & 15 or better?

[Ichabod Drain]

Wow, lotta Negative Nancy's here. I didn't see the game, but from the box score:

5 players with between 12-17 points; great balance
Amile with 16 and 15 boards. Who's the last Dukie to put up 15 & 15 or better?

I know Amile did it last year vs Kentucky.

[mgtr]

Cincinatti and Rhode Island coming down to the wire. Image Duke would rather face Rhode Island, Cincinatti is a pretty big team.

OK, but be careful what you wish for. Rhode Island won by 5. Should be an interesting game tomorrow.

[Kedsy]

Additional comment: color me very concerned about Grayson. He's playing hurt, and it's really showing.

I agree with this. All these "minor" injuries could very well add up into something major before long.


I know this a bleak outlook, but I assume I'm not going to see any of the currently injured freshmen this year.

Every thread it seems contains this sort of dire post. I wish people would stop staying things like this. The odds against none of the three freshmen playing are astronomical, like predicting the moon is going to crash into the Earth before Christmas. I don't care if you think it, but please stop saying it.


Who's the last Dukie to put up 15 & 15 or better?

Amile Jefferson did it last season against Kentucky (16 and 15). Brandon Ingram put up 26 and 14 against Georgia Southern. But the last one to do it I think is Marshall Plumlee, who put up 19 and 17 against Syracuse on January 18, 2016.

[gocanes0506]

During the game today the floor guy (don't remember his name) said that Giles' his weeks ended today and someone was hopeful to see him in 2 weeks. Also said we could see Tatum and Bolden within a week.

It came up as they did a brief highlight on Giles.

[Dukehky]

I agree with this. All these "minor" injuries could very well add up into something major before long.



Every thread it seems contains this sort of dire post. I wish people would stop staying things like this. The odds against none of the three freshmen playing are astronomical, like predicting the moon is going to crash into the Earth before Christmas. I don't care if you think it, but please stop saying it.



Amile Jefferson did it last season against Kentucky (16 and 15). Brandon Ingram put up 26 and 14 against Georgia Southern. But the last one to do it I think is Marshall Plumlee, who put up 19 and 17 against Syracuse on January 18, 2016.

I think the big 3 play within the month though.

[DukieInBrasil]

Wow, lotta Negative Nancy's here. I didn't see the game, but from the box score:

5 players with between 12-17 points; great balance
Amile with 16 and 15 boards. Who's the last Dukie to put up 15 & 15 or better?

MP3 also did it last year with a 17 & 16 game.
ed.- I see Kedsy stated the correct stats 19&17.

[Reddevil]

It's November. Everything is going to be just fine.

[BandAlum83]

Great game from Jefferson. Strong effort from Jackson too. Uber-efficient day from Old Man Jones. Tough day for Kennard and Allen.

I hope Allen's toe injury doesn't linger. Flashes of Irving went through my head. I also hope Jeter's ankle isn't serious.

Really hoping our trio of injured frosh are due back soon.

Can't be back if they've never even been here.

[BandAlum83]

Wouldn't be surprised if Chase is out 1-2 weeks. Swelling probably happening right now.

He may be seen sparingly this season. By the time he's ready, Giles and Bolden will have taken all his minutes.

[Faustus]

Has Duke played Rhode Island since their magical run to the Championship game back with Banks, Dennard, Spanarkel, Gminski and etc. in the late 70s? I don't believe they have...

[grossbus]

"That being said, Grayson hasn't been stellar this year when healthy, it could get ugly if he's not healthy enough to do what he does well."

Actually, he has not been well at all. Banged up before exhibitions.

[jipops]

Losing Jeter tomorrow isn't catastrophic. He has shown improvement on D but he still doesn't show any sort of ability on offense. Throwing Vrank and/or Javin out there doesn't change things all that much.

Now if Grayson really does have something lingering that obviously changes the outlook of the season even if all the freshmen get healthy.

I feel very confident we'll see Jayson back very soon. I'm far less confident we'll ever see Bolden and Giles. Major bummer this season...oh what could have been.

[jipops]

Has Duke played Rhode Island since their magical run to the Championship game back with Banks, Dennard, Spanarkel, Gminski and etc. in the late 70s? I don't believe they have...

Yes. They have. RI had some dude light us up in Cameron a few years ago. Can't remember his name.

[mo.st.dukie]

Has Duke played Rhode Island since their magical run to the Championship game back with Banks, Dennard, Spanarkel, Gminski and etc. in the late 70s? I don't believe they have...

The 08-09 season. We beat them 82-79. Jimmy Baron was 8-10 from 3 for 24 points.

[sagegrouse]

Grumble, grumble.... five-man rotation. FIVE-MAN ROTATION! We have to play tomorrow (URI); why don't we use some players today?

Grumble, grumble.... Toe injury for Grayson. TOE INJURY! Isn't that phrase banned from Duke basketball. It produces nightmares.

Grumble, grumble.... Delay offense. DELAY OFFENSE! Isn't that "prevent victory" offense? We had little success in scoring the last four minutes off of the delay game.

Grumble, grumble.... Chase Jeter ankle. ANKLE! Really sorry to hear it, Chase. Come back soon.

[DUKIE V(A)]

The 08-09 season. We beat them 82-79. Jimmy Baron was 8-10 from 3 for 24 points.

In another nail-biter, Duke edged the Tom Garrick led Rams 73-72 in the 1988 Sweet Sixteen.

[duke4ever19]

The 08-09 season. We beat them 82-79. Jimmy Baron was 8-10 from 3 for 24 points.

I remember that game. Baron did most of his damage the second half. One of those games where a guy just sees "DUKE" on the jersey and has an out-of-body experience.

[heyman25]

I was thinking of seeing our team play in Las Vegas,but with all the injuries can't go. We need to get healthy and play in sync. Early in the season but far from the Duke basketball we are to expect.

[Troublemaker]

Cincinatti and Rhode Island coming down to the wire. Image Duke would rather face Rhode Island, Cincinatti is a pretty big team.


OK, but be careful what you wish for. Rhode Island won by 5. Should be an interesting game tomorrow.

Rhode Island actually out-rebounded Cincinnati by 9. They have lots of good, quick guards (even without their PG, who I hope is okay) and we have no depth and little rim protection. They're going to beat us tomorrow. I'm not even kidding.

[dukelifer]

Rhode Island actually out-rebounded Cincinnati by 9. They have lots of good, quick guards (even without their PG, who I hope is okay) and we have no depth and little rim protection. They're going to beat us tomorrow. I'm not even kidding.

If Grayson is hobbled- it will be a tough order. Duke may need to play White, Delaurier and Vrank more minutes tomorrow. Foul trouble will be a big issue with a tired, injured team.

[Ichabod Drain]

Rhode Island actually out-rebounded Cincinnati by 9. They have lots of good, quick guards (even without their PG, who I hope is okay) and we have no depth and little rim protection. They're going to beat us tomorrow. I'm not even kidding.

Unless they don't. I would still say Rhide Island is a better matchup. Four of Cincys top six players by usage are 6-8 or taller.

[devil84]

Do these upperclassmen really need to learn to play through fouls and fatigue? These in particular, who went through last season?

I'd think the greater risk of injury while playing fatigued would trump that at a certain point, anyway.

If the last time you ran any distance was 8 months ago, would you run a marathon today? You could, but it wouldn't be smart.

The last time any of these guys could have had big games and were in regular game situations was 8 months ago. Grayson, Matt, and Luke are the only players we have who played substantial minutes together, with Chase clocking some time, too. And they did that communicating with Ingram, Plumlee, and Thornton. Amile missed most of last year, too, so yes, he needs that push. That team's chemistry and experience is not THIS team's chemistry and experience.

Practice can emulate game situations, but right now, we don’t have enough healthy bodies to field two complete teams to go at each other at game pace. And practice, while it can be quite brutal, is simply not a game situation. Emotions are different in a game than in practice.

I’m an endurance athlete (I do sprint triathlons – short, short distances; I leave the Olympic and half-Ironman distance to my son and his friends). Training wanes over the winter, when the cold and short days leave little time to run, ride, and swim outside. One does what one can on a trainer/stationary bike inside, the “dreadmill,” and the indoor pool. Bike handling skills suffer as the bike is held upright in the trainer, leaving the rider to focus on pedal strokes and sheer time in the saddle. Likewise, one’s balance and footing suffers when you have a perfectly flat running surface. And the pool just doesn’t have waves like open water does. And in those first glorious days of spring when triathletes resume outdoor training, we all find that we are a bit rusty on our bike handling and balance. Oh, we get it back quickly, but we actually have to spend time swimming/running/riding outside – more than we’d care to admit before we’re in race shape. And the closer it gets to race time, the more we start scheduling back-to-back workouts to simulate race day. Good training prepares you to be able to make it through that last mile of the race. That last, long freakin’ mile. But, since most of us don’t have a place to swim, rack our bike, and run all in the same workout, we have to practice everything separately and put it all together on race day.

Isn’t that what basketball teams do? You can play pickup games in the summer off-season against players from other schools. Then in the fall, you practice with just your team, the same group of guys every day. They have their coaching staff and practices in their own venue, but they don’t have officials, fans, press, and the emotion of game day. They have to put it all together. And they have to hope they’ve trained so that they have enough in the tank for that last, long freakin’ minute in a close game. A minute and a half for a bench player to spell that veteran robs that veteran of the experience of playing with rubber legs, gassed lungs, and drained emotions. I’d rather have our veterans practicing that NOW, than trying to figure it out in March.

[Saratoga2]

What I saw today from Amile was an outstanding performance by including scoring, defense and especially rebounding. His one weak area was foul shooting. He accomplished a lot and had to be very tired and was in foul trouble.

Frank also showed improvement and has taken the primary role of bringing the ball up. Experience gained now will be very beneficial later in the season. He is athletic and is tough and determined. We need that toughness on the team.

Matt had a very good game and was efficient on offense. He too was dealing with foul issues so that he managed to stay in the game was a positive. Some of the blow by drives were actually let them go, we can't afford to foul them results.

I thought Luke looked very passive today. Clearly he was tired but he deferred too often. He has exceptional talent and has to demand the ball and go at people more. Sometimes it can be innate in an individual, and if his twiddling his hair is an indication of it, he has to go beyond his tendencies and get more determined.

Grayson does look a little beat up or possibly injured out there. I see flashes of brilliance from him so maybe things will come along as the season moves on.

As far as the game tomorrow, if I was RI's coach I would ask the team to go to the basket early and often to tire Duke and get them into foul trouble. Coach K will feel pressure to get his bench subs into the game for more minutes. Vrank probably doesn't match up as well against RI as he did against Kansas with their big raw center. Javin clearly is a liability with his tendency to foul but he is an energy guy with good athleticism. We haven't seen Jack as yet but probably will need him tomorrow. If we lose, so be it, but getting our subs in should be a priority/

[AnotherNYCDukeFan]

If it means anything, Chase walked from his room to dinner unassissted and without crutches. Apologies if I've violated a rumor policy. Just relaying what was easily witnessed in the hotel/casino.

[NSDukeFan]

If it means anything, Chase walked from his room to dinner unassissted and without crutches. Apologies if I've violated a rumor policy. Just relaying what was easily witnessed in the hotel/casino.

Do you have a link? 🙂

[Kfanarmy]

the moon is going to crash into the Earth before Christmas.

Be careful. CNN might misqoute you here...

Why are there sooo many injuries on this tm already?

[Kfanarmy]

... the experience of playing with rubber legs, gassed lungs, and drained emotions. I’d rather have our veterans practicing that NOW, than trying to figure it out in March.

These guys already have that experience. The risk to the season of losing a guy is much greater than the risk that an upperclassman forgot how to fight through.

[Dukehky]

Quick guards v. Grayson, Luke, and Matt usually weighs in favor of the former when Duke is playing defense.

We are going to see almost no ball pressure unless they are close to the paint tomorrow to try and limit fouls and force them to hoist 3s to win.

[Kedsy]

Losing Jeter tomorrow isn't catastrophic. He has shown improvement on D but he still doesn't show any sort of ability on offense. Throwing Vrank and/or Javin out there doesn't change things all that much.

I couldn't disagree more. The difference between Chase and Antonio or Javin is approximately the same as the difference last season between Marshall Plumlee and Chase. Big. Assuming Chase can't go tomorrow, I think Coach K will basically go with a 5-man rotation, and that can't be good.


I'm far less confident we'll ever see Bolden and Giles. Major bummer this season...oh what could have been.

I really can't understand why people are adopting this sort of fatalistic attitude. I've said it before, and with all due respect, but it's ridiculous.

[Newton_14]

Has Duke played Rhode Island since their magical run to the Championship game back with Banks, Dennard, Spanarkel, Gminski and etc. in the late 70s? I don't believe they have... Others mentioned the Barron game in Cameron, but I think we played them in the 2nd Rd of the 2006 NCAA Tourney as well....


"That being said, Grayson hasn't been stellar this year when healthy, it could get ugly if he's not healthy enough to do what he does well."

Actually, he has not been well at all. Banged up before exhibitions.

Agree. Grayson was hurt prior to the open practice. They held him out due to a sore hamstring which he keeps tweaking almost every game. He also has had shoulder and rib injuries, and now the toe thing. The kid is obviously playing hurt, and it is having a pretty significant impact on his performance. People need to get off his back. He looks like a shell of the guy we saw last year. Hopefully we can rest him some once the other 3 (now 4) kids return which is imminent and I agree with those calling for the stoppage of the nonsense that none of Tatum, Giles, and Bolden will ever play a game. It's ridiculous.

Which is why it is practically worthless to judge/assess/breakdown/analyze the Duke Men's Basketball team and their prospects for this season. Our real team has not played a game yet, and while the team we are putting out there is pretty darn good, it pales in comparison to the team we will soon be trotting out there.


Losing Jeter tomorrow isn't catastrophic. He has shown improvement on D but he still doesn't show any sort of ability on offense. Throwing Vrank and/or Javin out there doesn't change things all that much.

Now if Grayson really does have something lingering that obviously changes the outlook of the season even if all the freshmen get healthy.

I feel very confident we'll see Jayson back very soon. I'm far less confident we'll ever see Bolden and Giles. Major bummer this season...oh what could have been.

Sorry pops, but I have to strongly disagree on Chase. He is several levels above Vrank and Javin right now (although unlike others I thought Vrank played really well today and should have played a lot more minutes than he did). Chase is off to an excellent start in the sophomore campaign of his young career. I think he would have had a lot of success today had the injury not occurred.

We very well may lose tomorrow. We very well may play the same 5 guys for the majority of the game too. It won't be the end of the world if we lose. We need our guys back. They will be back shortly and hopefully all the wailing and knashing of teeth over them coming back or not will be dead and buried.

[subzero02]

We defeated George Washington in the 2nd round of the 2006 ncaa tourney. ( we beat southern in the first round and lost to big baby and lsu in the sweet 16).

[Deslok]

Duke Rhode Island matchups...
in 78 they were our first opponent on that run to finals, we beat them by 1, 63-62
In 88 they were our Sweet 16 opponent and again, we won by 1 73-72
And then the 2008 game in November where we beat them by a whopping 3 points.

So we are 3-0, with a total margin of 5 points.

[Indoor66]

These guys already have that experience. The risk to the season of losing a guy is much greater than the risk that an upperclassman forgot how to fight through.

Other than the ACC Tourney, nothing in March can be considered a marathon. Playing two games a week - with a day's rest in between - is nothing like playing five games in 7 or 8 days.

[rocketeli]

Duke Rhode Island matchups...
in 78 they were our first opponent on that run to finals, we beat them by 1, 63-62
In 88 they were our Sweet 16 opponent and again, we won by 1 73-72
And then the 2008 game in November where we beat them by a whopping 3 points.

So we are 3-0, with a total margin of 5 points.

I'd take 4-0 with a total of 6 points. (But with all the injuries this RI game is looking pretty problematic.)

[Bob Green]

I'd take 4-0 with a total of 6 points. (But with all the injuries this RI game is looking pretty problematic.)

Even with all the injuries we will start five McDonlad's All Americans:

Amile Jefferson
Matt Jones
Grayson Allen
Luke Kennard
Frank Jackson

I'm sure the team is more optimistic than this board.

[DukieInBrasil]

Sorry pops, but I have to strongly disagree on Chase. He is several levels above Vrank and Javin right now (although unlike others I thought Vrank played really well today and should have played a lot more minutes than he did). Chase is off to an excellent start in the sophomore campaign of his young career. I think he would have had a lot of success today had the injury not occurred.

We very well may lose tomorrow. We very well may play the same 5 guys for the majority of the game too. It won't be the end of the world if we lose. We need our guys back. They will be back shortly and hopefully all the wailing and knashing of teeth over them coming back or not will be dead and buried.

I disagree with this. Although Chase is probably more valuable overall, he is not "several levels" above Vrank right now. First, Vrank is shooting better from the FT line than Chase (83.3% vs 60%) and he is rebounding at much, much better rate than Chase (19.3r/40mins vs. 7.8r/40mins), it's not even close. Granted, Vrank has not played against other teams' first units principally, so it's not a perfect comparison but Vrank more than doubles Chase's rate. Alternatively, Chase is shooting much better from the floor than Vrank (5-10 vs 2-7), but the number of shots is pretty low, ie. if Vrank makes his next 3 shots their FG shooting will be identical.
The difference really is only that K is playing Chase and not Vrank, but their stats do not show a clear advantage for Chase and in fact a strong argument can be made that Vrank is statistically better than Chase, especially considering that rebounding is the principal thing that Duke needs from the C/PF spots.

[devil84]

Other than the ACC Tourney, nothing in March can be considered a marathon. Playing two games a week - with a day's rest in between - is nothing like playing five games in 7 or 8 days.

OK, I can’t resist another endurance event training reference. There are a couple of mantras for race day:
· Taper your training before the race.
· Nothing new on race day.
· The race is simply a victory lap for all your training. Enjoy the race.

Tapering your training means to cut back fairly dramatically on the duration of workouts. Because you can recover from fatigue much more quickly than you can lose fitness, and you can’t increase your fitness in the last 12-14 days before the event, it’s been shown that ensuring that you’re not fatigued for race day reaps significant performance benefits. Applying this to basketball, if you consider the regular season to be training for the post-season, the tournament has built-in tapers.

“Nothing new on race day.” No brand-new equipment that you haven’t at least done one or two workouts in. No new nutrition products. No new meals the night before, so as not to upset the digestive system. And no new distances, either. If you’ve been training for a 5K, a marathon might not be your best idea. To apply this to basketball, if one’s never played a full 40 minutes per game, but are used to 35, one may find a wall at 36 or 38 minutes. Best to ensure that one has trained for a full 40 minutes, especially if the games go to OT.

That the race is a victory lap for one’s training is an important point. It places the focus on training. You can’t finish that triathlon if you can’t swim, bike, or run the distances. One’s performance is totally a reflection of one’s training. An additional meaning for most of us who aren’t elite athletes, is to focus on your own performance instead of comparing yourself to those who race at different paces. For elite athletes, it means that those little details in your training might be the difference between standing on the podium or not. Deciding that you can skip the last 200 yards of a 4000 yard swim, or shortening your 40 mile bike workout to only 35 miles, or cutting back 5% on your hill workouts can make a difference between a PR and a podium victory and a disappointing finish. The basketball analogy: 5% of the game is just 2 minutes of play. Practices are prep for the non-conference games, non-con games prepare for the conference games, and all that prepares you for the post-season.

If you look at the basketball season as an endurance event, it makes sense to not skimp on those 2 minutes, or 5%, of the game play. While bench players can develop some with 2 more minutes of play, it also makes sense to me to have the veterans get that extra 5% -- the hardest 5% is when the athlete is fatigued. If you practice that, you’ll be set during tournament play. It’s a skill that needs to be practiced to keep those skills sharp. Use it or lose it.

I’m not saying that Coach K is deliberately doing these things – I have no idea. But my personal sports and exercise scientist has educated me about endurance training, and what I see with leaving players in when fatigued makes sense to me. So yes, the playing 2 games a weeks with a day's rest in between, with five days of rest in between looks pretty much like endurance race training for optimum performance.

[budwom]

Not sure what Rhode Island can do because I don't know their team and who knows if the PG will play...but I could imagine them
driving into the lane all day long looking to get Amile into foul trouble.

[Ichabod Drain]

Rhode Island actually out-rebounded Cincinnati by 9. They have lots of good, quick guards (even without their PG, who I hope is okay) and we have no depth and little rim protection. They're going to beat us tomorrow. I'm not even kidding.

Good work on the reverse-jinx post Troublemaker! ;)

[Newton_14]

I disagree with this. Although Chase is probably more valuable overall, he is not "several levels" above Vrank right now. First, Vrank is shooting better from the FT line than Chase (83.3% vs 60%) and he is rebounding at much, much better rate than Chase (19.3r/40mins vs. 7.8r/40mins), it's not even close. Granted, Vrank has not played against other teams' first units principally, so it's not a perfect comparison but Vrank more than doubles Chase's rate. Alternatively, Chase is shooting much better from the floor than Vrank (5-10 vs 2-7), but the number of shots is pretty low, ie. if Vrank makes his next 3 shots their FG shooting will be identical.
The difference really is only that K is playing Chase and not Vrank, but their stats do not show a clear advantage for Chase and in fact a strong argument can be made that Vrank is statistically better than Chase, especially considering that rebounding is the principal thing that Duke needs from the C/PF spots.

A fair counter argument for sure. Despite the stats, I still think Chase is ahead of Vrank, however, I thought Vrank played really well in his minutes Saturday and I was surprisedthat he did not get put back in once Grayson returned. I am glad he got some minutes today, and was surprised Chase played today. I actually think we would have been just fine with Vrank getting all the minutes split between he and Chase today. Hopefully Chase can get some rest in these next few days and let that ankle heal. Fortunately it does appear, that his ankle injury was one of those where it hurts like holy hell in those initial moments, even though the actual ligament damage was likely minimal. I've had both versions, where like Chase Saturday it hurt terribly bad but minimal damage, and those that hurt somewhat less initially, but starting the next day you can't walk on it for a week. I do NOT miss the days of sticking a very tender, fragile ankle, down into a bucket filled with ice water. It doesn't take too long before the ice numbs it entirely, but man getting to that point is agonizing!