MBB: Kansas 77, Duke 75 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[jipops]

Great fight by our guys tonight. We have a lot of issues, but still almost pulled this one out.

[CDu]

Tough way to lose, but really good fight down the stretch. Allen will need to play better. We will need to get healthy. But I will take this performance given our limited rotation.

[fuse]

Love the heart and the fight to come back.

Wish there had been more consistency and better defense.

Lots to be proud of, early season game from which to learn.

Go Duke!

[duke4ever19]

Missing 3 starters and still almost took down Kansas.
I'm actually pretty stoked right now.

[ipatent]

It was a gutty performance by an undermanned team.

[Ultrarunner]

Well, shoot. Good fight by the guys not to quit and came this close. Refs were horrible both ways.

On the balance, we're vulnerable to quick guards. No surprise. Having Tatum for another offensive option would be nice. Bolden to swat drives at the rim would be nice. Would be nice to see everyone healthy - including Grayson, at this point.

[Kfanarmy]

What in the world was with Allen tonight? Looked sick, but might have just been the hair in his face all night.

[Kjeffrey]

Tough way to lose, but really good fight down the stretch. Allen will need to play better. We will need to get healthy. But I will take this performance given our limited rotation.

Agree completely. Funny how Bilas and Shulman said nothing about the slim Duke rotation. It would have the topic of the game if Kansas had been missing players. Kansas gets the w and there certainly won't be an asterisk but they weren't impressive.

[UrinalCake]

Grayson didn't look fully healthy even before getting hurt near the end of the first half. Very encouraging games by Luke, Chase, and Frank. Amile was excellent in the first half but kind of disappeared in the second.

Given the circumstances we can't be too disappointed in the outcome. We looked a bit lackadaisical for much of the second half, but fought hard to come back.

[jipops]

Missing 3 starters and still almost took down Kansas.
I'm actually pretty stoked right now.

Obi was going to start!!??

[-jk]

Well, shoot. Good fight by the guys not to quit and came this close. Refs were horrible both ways.

On the balance, we're vulnerable to quick guards. No surprise. Having Tatum for another offensive option would be nice. Bolden to swat drives at the rim would be nice. Would be nice to see everyone healthy - including Grayson, at this point.

Refs were doing their best to follow the points of emphasis.

I'd be ecstatic if they carried it through the season.

I imagine they'll be back to the usual physical play by mid-January. Again. (I still miss flowy hoops!)

-jk

[UrinalCake]

What in the world was with Allen tonight? Looked sick, but might have just been the hair in his face all night.

I thought he looked sick, and that was even before he hurt his leg. Definitely not himself tonight.

[Ballboy1998]

It was a real struggle for Allen tonight - going up against some good guards and perhaps putting too much pressure on himself. Also unclear how much the leg was bothering him in the second half, but he didn't look 100%. Happy with what I saw from Jones, Jefferson, Kennard, and Jackson. Jeter did some really good things and some really bad things - he will get there but it will likely be another season before he does.

All of that said, rebounding lost Duke the game. Got totally killed on the glass by a not particularly long team. Even up the second chance points and we come out with a win.

A lot of good for the guys to take from it and a lot to learn from.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Good fight. Allen is pushing too hard, needs to relax. We need three more players.

Good game.

[gurufrisbee]

If you're going to feel good about a loss, you probably would have to say it's a game where you have three starters (or close to it) all out with injuries, EVERYONE in foul trouble, Allen has a rare bad game (he looked limited in the second half to me, but it's not like the first half was his best either), and you play a top five team to the point where it was tied with three seconds left.

Had to love Kennard's all around offensive game and Amile's all around game because he is flat out amazing. Even my Kansas buddies are all talking about how much they wish they had those two.

[NashvilleDevil]

Down the 3 freshman, serious foul trouble tonight, played the last 4-5 minutes without Amile, Grayson hobbled and did not play well and only lose at the buzzer. Man, if this team gets healthy look out.

Refs were terrible all around tonight. This seems to be a theme in college basketball. They call it tight during the first part of the year and once conference and tournament play starts they let them play a little more.

Agree with those saying how bad Bilas was. I had the sound up for about the first part of the first half and then remember I always watch Duke games on mute.

[brlftz]

wonder if we considered trapping mason, just to force someone else to make the big play. didn't really think we were going to stop him 1x1

[flyingdutchdevil]

Great fight. Kennard and Jackson were fantastic. Looking forward to the writing my two cents tomorrow.

Can I just say how much respect I have for Mason and Graham? Both were leaders and wrecked havoc

[gep]

Refs were doing their best to follow the points of emphasis.

I'd be ecstatic if they carried it through the season.

I imagine they'll be back to the usual physical play by mid-January. Again. (I still miss flowy hoops!)

-jk

Kansas against Indiana... I saw a bunch of Coach Self on the court near mid-court a few times DURING live action. No technical... I thought that was a point of emphasis this year :confused:

Anyone at MSG... did Coach Self get on the court during live action?

[jipops]

Agree completely. Funny how Bilas and Shulman said nothing about the slim Duke rotation. It would have the topic of the game if Kansas had been missing players. Kansas gets the w and there certainly won't be an asterisk but they weren't impressive.

I agree Kansas was not impressive. A top 5 team would have blown us away tonight.

[SCMatt33]

So you can say a lot about that game. I think both teams would tell you they didn't have nearly their best stuff. For anyone who ever complained about "just wanting consistency" with refs, be careful what you wish for. When you only choose to play 6, those calls will have a bigger impact on you late. There were a ton of plays in the last ten minutes where Duke gave up easy layups and offensive rebounds without too much of a fight because they weren't willing to risk a foul.

I'm also surprised on the last play, Duke chose to play soft on defense on the last play. Given everything going on, I don't think they really could have felt great about OT and you could do worse than fouling with 5 or 6 seconds left knowing you'll get a chance to win it.

This is more an observation than anything, but Duke inadvertently wasted a timeout. Last year, the NCAA instituted a rule that if a timeout was called within 30 seconds of the designated media timeout, that would become the media timeout (with an exception for the first called timeout of the second half as that one acts as an additional media timeout). Duke called a timeout after a made bucket with 4:28 left and I think that Coach K was trying to go for the de facto double timeout pairing a called one with a media one as he's done several times in the past when playing a short rotation. He missed it by 2 seconds.

It will be interesting to see what happens this weekend. I don't think you can play two games in quick succession like that with 6 guys and expect success. If no one comes back from injury, I think you have to try and give someone a few minutes here and there.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree Kansas was not impressive. A top 5 team would have blown us away tonight.

To be fair, Kansas shot 12.5% from deep. And foul trouble for both teams prevented any rythym any which way.

Love our heart. Don't love our turnovers.

[BLPOG]

Every year one of my biggest concerns is whether the team will have the skill and mental toughness to mount a comeback against a good team. When you had guys like Jason Williams & Battier & Boozer or Sheldon Williams & Redick, it was always possible.

So I'm pretty pleased to see a decent comeback, even without the "W," this early in the season.

[cptnflash]

I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

That being said, my biggest concern/hope is that Grayson isn't seriously injured. My first reaction when he went down with a rearward twisting knee was ACL tear. The fact that he played at all in the second half means that I was probably wrong, unless he is bionic beyond Kyle Singler standards. But he was clearly limping in the second half so something is definitely wrong. For his sake, I hope it's just a sprain. He needs this year to secure a high spot in the 2017 NBA draft, which he richly deserves.

[KandG]

Tough loss, lots of issues, great comeback at the end.

Thought it was evident even in the blowout wins last week that Duke's defense is a major work in progress. Kansas' guards (granted among the very best in the country) just torched our defense. Jayhawks never troubled us from the 3 point line, but it didn't matter because they got pretty much anything they wanted in the paint after a rough start. Kansas had only 6 points after 7 minutes and then proceeded to score 50 (*fifty*) points in the next 23 minutes spanning the first and second halves. (at one point ESPN had a graphic that had Kansas shooting 18 for 27 on 2 pointers)

Foul trouble was obviously a major issue but it affected both teams. Thought Grayson forced things a bit too much for most of the game a la Kentucky last year, and it's possible the fall in the first half affected him a little, but during the comeback it seemed like he read Kansas' defense much better. Luke was terrific, Matt solid, Frank had good and bad moments as a freshman will. Amile's foul trouble was fatal but even when he was in the game, 7 turnovers is way, way too many.

Hoping Tatum comes back sooner rather than later and that we get at least one of either Giles or Bolden back by the new year. I love Jeter's fight and he's going to have a role, but this early in the season he still gets pushed around a lot and as a result we got beaten badly on the boards.

As others have said, I would have liked for us to trap Mason at the end, but we were fortunate to even get the game to that point. We'll get better, much better, but for now the coaching staff will have plenty to to work on with the team.

[Kjeffrey]

To be fair, Kansas shot 12.5% from deep. And foul trouble for both teams prevented any rythym any which way.

Love our heart. Don't love our turnovers.

Bad offense is a big part of why I wasn't impressed with Kansas. Maybe it was an off night for them but I thought we'd lose by a significant margin based on KU's hype.

[gep]

I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

That being said, my biggest concern/hope is that Grayson isn't seriously injured. My first reaction when he went down with a rearward twisting knee was ACL tear. The fact that he played at all in the second half means that I was probably wrong, unless he is bionic beyond Kyle Singler standards. But he was clearly limping in the second half so something is definitely wrong. For his sake, I hope it's just a sprain. He needs this year to secure a high spot in the 2017 NBA draft, which he richly deserves.

I saw the same thing towards the end of the game. When he "jogged" to the timeout huddle, he was definitely not "normal"... hope this is not one of those "find out tomorrow" stuff...

[flyingdutchdevil]

Bad offense is a big part of why I wasn't impressed with Kansas. Maybe it was an off night for them but I thought we'd lose by a significant margin based on KU's hype.

Oh, I agree their offense isn't elite. Kansas is more built around defense. They made us look really, really uncomfortable.

[UrinalCake]

I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

He also hit the big four point play a few minutes before that, which cut the deficiit from 8 to 4 and got us back into the game. He looked really comfortable in this game, which is impressive for a freshman playing on the big stage for the first time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

That being said, my biggest concern/hope is that Grayson isn't seriously injured. My first reaction when he went down with a rearward twisting knee was ACL tear. The fact that he played at all in the second half means that I was probably wrong, unless he is bionic beyond Kyle Singler standards. But he was clearly limping in the second half so something is definitely wrong. For his sake, I hope it's just a sprain. He needs this year to secure a high spot in the 2017 NBA draft, which he richly deserves.

I'm hopeful about Grayson's situation because he did a beautiful Euro step. Can't really a Euro step without fully functioning ACLs in both legs, right?

[jipops]

22 fouls. 23 made field goals. Probably not going to get it done. Clearly the foul issues crushed our D in the 2nd half. We just don't have the personel to offset those kind of issues. Fatigue looked to be a factor for Jones on that last play.

[jasoninchina]

I was not able to watch the first 70% of the game because of a weekly missionary meeting and preparing to host a Thanksgiving party (also an outreach effort). I am very pleased that there have been no "Chicken-Little-the-sky-is-falling" posts so far. No one hates losing more than I. I want to encourage everyone who might be thinking about making such a negative post, please don't. This team will be extraordinary once everyone is healthy. Let's go Duke!

[MarkD83]

Agree completely. Funny how Bilas and Shulman said nothing about the slim Duke rotation. It would have the topic of the game if Kansas had been missing players. Kansas gets the w and there certainly won't be an asterisk but they weren't impressive.

I actually did hear Shulman say toward the end of the game what a gutty game Duke played despite being down 3 freshman.

[mr. synellinden]

One thing is abundantly clear to me - we desperately need a point guard. It doesn't matter how much height and talent were wearing suits tonight. Oh if this team still had Thornton ...

[MCFinARL]

Agree completely. Funny how Bilas and Shulman said nothing about the slim Duke rotation. It would have the topic of the game if Kansas had been missing players. Kansas gets the w and there certainly won't be an asterisk but they weren't impressive.

I think Shulman actually did mention it once or twice, Bilas not so much. [Edit: see MarkD83 beat me to this point while I was writing my post.] Agreed Kansas did not look invincible, though they have some good pieces--but to be fair, they were playing a game in Hawaii three days ago. Their foul and 3-point shooting were both badly off, which could be at least in part a jet lag issue. Both Kansas and Duke will likely be a lot better later in the season.



I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

That being said, my biggest concern/hope is that Grayson isn't seriously injured. My first reaction when he went down with a rearward twisting knee was ACL tear. The fact that he played at all in the second half means that I was probably wrong, unless he is bionic beyond Kyle Singler standards. But he was clearly limping in the second half so something is definitely wrong. For his sake, I hope it's just a sprain. He needs this year to secure a high spot in the 2017 NBA draft, which he richly deserves.

After seeing the replay a couple of times, I actually wondered if he hurt the ankle rather than the knee--his foot bent up in an odd way when he landed. But I imagine we will know more about what happened soon--or we won't. Fingers crossed we won't because there is nothing to learn, and not because there is an "unspecified injury" with an "indefinite timetable for return."

[gofurman]

I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

That being said, my biggest concern/hope is that Grayson isn't seriously injured. My first reaction when he went down with a rearward twisting knee was ACL tear. The fact that he played at all in the second half means that I was probably wrong, unless he is bionic beyond Kyle Singler standards. But he was clearly limping in the second half so something is definitely wrong. For his sake, I hope it's just a sprain. He needs this year to secure a high spot in the 2017 NBA draft, which he richly deserves.

exactly. All the other debates mean nothing if Grayson is hurt long-term. Pointless to debate strategy if we lose the key all-american

Other concerns - get Tatum and Bolden out there. Someone. Please. Health!!!!!!! Hope to see Giles in January too.

No true pg? Oh, it will be fine. Riiiiiight. Turnover after turnover after turnover. Just horrible passing for live turnovers etc

Hope Grayson is ok. He looked hurt on that play and then late in the game he came up gimpy. That's more important than anything

Lastly, yes we need the three freshman but it was turnovers that hurt too. And we have all four guards healthy- Allen, Kennard, Jones and Jackson. But they are all combo guards it appears to me. Turnovers and inability to stay in front of super quick guards - like every year ... Eric Maynor, CJ McCollum, etc. though bolden would help w rim protection

[Billy Dat]

-I think Kansas is tough and definitely a title contender.

-Once Kansas erased the 9 point lead we had in the first half they controlled the game save for our comeback at the end. I though their D shutting us down was the primary story.

-We played pretty well the final 6 minutes or so. It ws a winnable game .

-I didn't love our chemistry during those bad segments. Guys were doing a lot of complaining to each other, whatever. I wasn't feeling good leadership from our vets during those stretches.

-Chase was a huge bright spot for me. He was putting pressure on their D and getting to the line. He blocked some shots. I thought we rebounded ok when we had two bigs in but their perimeter rebounded better than ours.

-Kennard scored well and was playmaking.

-Until the very end, Jackson was pretty bad. He warmed up once he got those first two FTs. He made big plays down the stretch but was bad before thay, glad he ended on some high notes.

-Bad night for Grayson, like last year's Champions Classix. Two year losing strrak, time for some MSU...next year and in a few weeks.

-Happy we had a chance for OT at the end, we ended the game playing well...get ready for this weekend up in CT.

[wavedukefan70s]

Considering how thin our bench is i got a lot of positives from this game.once we get our guys back we will be fine.jeter looks alot better.jackson looks good.we looked a little tired down the stretch.have to adjust to the officiating.when we went down by ten we could have folded.we didnt.
Duke could be a hell of a team in a month or so.

[Utley]

Was at the game which doesn't always give you the best perspective.

Honestly it mainly brought back painful memories of the end of last year.

I still don't know what to think of Grayson. I can't remember a player whose performance was more volatile. I think he chose wisely to come back and to continue to progress. I am confident he will benefit from some other offensive scoring options.

I was really pleased with Luke tonight. I just feel like something good is going to happen every time he touches the ball.

Not sure what to think of Amile. I love his game and thought he was very solid tonight. He was so solid last year I hoped he may be able to take it to another level - but perhaps he had already reached his ceiling.

This season is all about March for us and this game will likely be a distant memory. I guess only time and health will tell who we are.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Jeter looks like a different animal this year. He is going to get to the line a LOT this year. Hope he can start to convert.

[Kfanarmy]

-...
-Once Kansas erased the 9 point lead we had in the first half they controlled the game save for our comeback at the end. I though their D shutting us down was the primary story...

I thought the key to the game was failure to secure defensive rebounds. Kansas took 18 more shots than Duke. That cant happen.

[ChillinDuke]

I'm not sure what the broadcast was like, but inside The Garden I thought people were going to start throwing debris onto the court. The refs were beyond horrific. Points of emphasis or not, there was a palpable disgust by all four fanbases (what remained of the other two). I don't know what to take out of this game, frankly, other than this was Exhibit A for why college basketball is second rate entertainment. I'm not even sure tonight would even classify as entertainment.

Rant aside, good fight in the last two minutes by our boys. Love to see Frank get that taste on that mondo three.

Other than that, I prefer to stay on my rant. Tonight was a major downer for fans of college basketball. I want the points of emphasis like a lot of us around here, but I prefer a transition that doesn't have to sacrifice 38 of 40 minutes of a Duke-Kansas game. Sheesh.

- Chillin

[Billy Dat]

I thought the key to the game was failure to secure defensive rebounds. Kansas took 18 more shots than Duke. That cant happen.

Yeah, I felt that was the major means by which they erased the early 9 point lead so, indeed, that was a big problem.

Chillin and others - I agree about the refs.

Still, for that middle 20 minutes we lacked zeal/bounce/energy. We seamed small on a big stage. Again, though, we snapped out of it in the final 5-10.

[UrinalCake]

Was at the game which doesn't always give you the best perspective.

Honestly it mainly brought back painful memories of the end of last year.

I still don't know what to think of Grayson. I can't remember a player whose performance was more volatile. I think he chose wisely to come back and to continue to progress. I am confident he will benefit from some other offensive scoring options.

I was really pleased with Luke tonight. I just feel like something good is going to happen every time he touches the ball.

Not sure what to think of Amile. I love his game and thought he was very solid tonight. He was so solid last year I hoped he may be able to take it to another level - but perhaps he had already reached his ceiling.

This season is all about March for us and this game will likely be a distant memory. I guess only time and health will tell who we are.


A few thoughts:
- unfortunately Grayson has had some of his worst performances in some of the biggest games, including Kentucky and Oregon last season. Eventually there has to be some concern of how well he will perform against bigger/better defenders at the next level. I don't think we're there yet though, he had a bad game, he looked to me like he was sick at the start of the game, and then he got hurt on top of that. I thought that he would try to attack the rim against the smaller Kansas guards, but they were able to stay in front of him and prevent him from using his size advantage.
- Luke had a fantastic game, hit some huge shots and never seemed to force things.
- Amile had a great first half but ran into foul trouble and also was playing the 5 for most of the second half as we went small. I've said it before, but I'm really not sold on him playing the 5. He did his best defensively, and we didn't really have any other choice tonight, but once our horses are back I'm hoping he plays the 4 exclusively except maybe at the end of games. He's never going to be a volume scorer, he can capitalize on opportunities and be efficient, but he's not a go-to guy on offense. I think it's reasonable to say that is his ceiling.

[Skydog]

I thought Grayson looked off from minute 1 of the game, way before the injury. Not sure why - maybe the pressure of expectations this season?

Great defense by Kansas in the 2nd half and Mason was unstoppable.

And on our side really gutsy performances by Kennard, Amile (he played hard with 4 fouls for a long time it seemed), and Jackson who was killer at the end. But defensively we struggled to get a single stop in the 2nd half until the final minute. We need our freshmen to toughen us up inside, big time.

[Billy Dat]

But defensively we struggled to get a single stop in the 2nd half until the final minute. We need our freshmen to toughen us up inside, big time.

Very true, they just kept running weave dribble handoffs vs our switches until the got the match-up they wanted.

[indy1duke]

We just returned from the game. I second Chillin and raise him on the referees. I cannot believe I paid $150 per ticket only to have the referees ruin our enjoyment of basketball. There were phantom traveling calls, any contact or no contact could be a foul for either team. Our seats were a long way from the action. It is no Cameron experience. As for the team, this team as it currently stands reminds me of last year's team. They will lose some games and maybe make the Sweet 16, but the deficiencies in depth and ball-handling will prevent higher expectations and we can ill afford further injuries. We dodged a bullet when Grayson returned for the second half. The great comeback was the highlight of the game. I wonder if K thought about a double team on Mason to make him give up the ball at the end of the game.

[gam7]

-Bad night for Grayson, like last year's Champions Classix. Two year losing strrak, time for some MSU...next year and in a few weeks.



Grayson struggled for 36 minutes, but it was different from last year in a very important way: Grayson never checked out mentally like he did last year against UK. His body language and "face" were consistently good throughout in this one. Remember that game last year when a visibly frustrated and despondent Grayson fouled out and then lost his cool when Thornton tried to say something to him on the bench? This game showed me that 2016-17 Grayson has grown up and is leading by example.

Like many others, I liked what I saw from Jeter. I see his career arc as being similar to Landon Lucas's at KU. He will be a solid starting center by his senior year. Until then, he will be a serviceable reserve.

Luke was great tonight. I like what I am seeing from this group. When we add three lottery picks, we are going to be a handful. I do agree, however, that our achilles heel seems to be defending exactly the kinds of guards that Graham and Mason are.

Overall, I loved what I saw tonight.

[gep]

Just watched a short clip on Youtube. Grayson should get a hair cut. I think it's too long... that's the problem :cool:

I remember somewhat, back with JJ... he basically "shaved" his hair down to almost nothing... and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. I told my son that JJ lost his balance since he didn't have any hair left...haha...

Grayson may have too much hair at this point...

[crf30]

Like many, I thought Grayson looked a little forced, but not like last year with Kentucky. He still found ways to do things, and wasn't a complete detriment to the team. Would have liked to see a three fall for him earlier, might have gotten him going.

Gotta love the work Luke was doing. If he gets within 15 feet and jumps off two feet to shoot, it feels like it is automatic.

Did anyone else think Amile played oddly tonight? Only four boards, and kinda racked up the turnovers. But made plenty of positive plays as well. Just not up to his usual consistency.

I'm liking Chase's continued growth -- hope it is not stunted by the return of the others as much as I want them back.

After Luke, I think Matt was probably our next most effective player. Because of his old man game, he gets taken lightly when we're on offense, and craftily gets in positions to score. Also effective on D -- can't blame him much on the last play.

It is kind of amazing how quickly both teams were adding to their foul totals that Javin only played all of a minute.

I think the biggest stat that can tell us why we lost is that Luke was our leading rebounder with 5.

[Steven43]

Agree with those saying how bad Bilas was.
Bilas was flat-out awful. Just miserable. He blatantly missed call after call. I felt as if he and I were watching completely different games. One play that comes to mind is when a Kansas big man got a rebound by going so forcefully over the back of Luke Kennard that he was sent sprawling to the ground and all Bilas could do was go on and on about what a fantastic rebound it was. Shameful job by Bilas.

[heyman25]

I'm not sure what the broadcast was like, but inside The Garden I thought people were going to start throwing debris onto the court. The refs were beyond horrific. Points of emphasis or not, there was a palpable disgust by all four fanbases (what remained of the other two). I don't know what to take out of this game, frankly, other than this was Exhibit A for why college basketball is second rate entertainment. I'm not even sure tonight would even classify as entertainment.

Rant aside, good fight in the last two minutes by our boys. Love to see Frank get that taste on that mondo three.

Other than that, I prefer to stay on my rant. Tonight was a major downer for fans of college basketball. I want the points of emphasis like a lot of us around here, but I prefer a transition that doesn't have to sacrifice 38 of 40 minutes of a Duke-Kansas game. Sheesh.

- Chillin
The referees have truly made College basketball a boring brand of basketball. That said we looked like the worst #1 ranked team that I have seen play.This team needs a lot of work. Coach K will have his work cut out for him. Kennard was excellent and Jefferson had his moments and Jeter is so much better than last season.Allen was off as was Jones.Jackson will get better. I know its early but we should have beaten Kansas. They played much better than Duke, but we could not capitalize on their fouling. Our rebounding was atrocious.

[Steven43]

One thing is abundantly clear to me - we desperately need a point guard. It doesn't matter how much height and talent were wearing suits tonight. Oh if this team still had Thornton ...
So what if the team still had Thornton? He is not a good ballhandler, passer or shooter. He is decent at all three, but not good. That is not what this team needs. The only thing this team needs is for its injured players to get healthy and get on the court. The rest will take care of itself.

[subzero02]

So what if the team still had Thornton? He is not a good ballhandler, passer or shooter. He is decent at all three, but not good. That is not what this team needs. The only thing this team needs is for its injured players to get healthy and get on the court. The rest will take care of itself.

We lost because of poor defensive rebounding and poor post defense. A lack of front court depth and foul trouble exasperated these issues. If we had taken care of the ball better on the perimeter we might have been able to pull out the victory. Kennard, Jackson and Allen can ball. If our paper team becomes a court team, we can be surreal.

[NSDukeFan]

Anybody know a good tattoo removal place?

[OldPhiKap]

Anybody know a good tattoo removal place?

All you need is a bottle of tequila and a good belt sander.

[SlapTheFloor]

I'm proud of our team. We played a six man rotation in a game where everyone was in foul trouble, our best player had one of his worst games, and we only lost on a last second shot. We had issues creating offense off the dribble. Some of that is a credit to Kansas's D, but you have to think a healthy Tatum or an effective Allen would have helped there.

On a side note, I went to the game and sat in front of the most annoying fans. Sadly, they were some of ours. Talked politics all through the first game. Had a running, ill informed commentary all through the second. They seemed to find Amile's status as a grad student funny, and left in disgust with six minutes left wondering how we could have been preseason #1. I think the moment they left the arena is when we made our big comeback. If only they had taken off sooner, we might have won this one.

[luburch]

Last game was a bit of a mixed-bag. Some good and some bad. It's hard to fully judge this team when so much is missing, but the team last night is the team we have for now.

Grayson definitely struggled with his shot, but I thought he was a little better at impacting the game in other areas. He was more aware of dumping the ball off on drives or keeping the ball moving.

Kennard was fantastic offensively, but his body language was not great at times. Hope the coaches show him a tape of that like they do with players from time to time.

Jeter was outstanding. Sure he could have finished around the rim better and been a bit better on the glass, but he is miles better than what we saw in limited minutes last season.

Overall the defensive performance left a lot to be desired. I know there were a lot of fouls and 3 key players are hurt, etc, etc, but the Kansas guards got whatever they wanted when they wanted. Have to be able to stop dribble prenetration.

I'm not happy about the loss, but I think it says a lot that the team battled back and made it a game.

[grossbus]

"There were phantom traveling calls"

On Replay, they all looked like good calls (at least the ones they replayed).

[left_hook_lacey]

Agree completely. Funny how Bilas and Shulman said nothing about the slim Duke rotation. It would have the topic of the game if Kansas had been missing players. Kansas gets the w and there certainly won't be an asterisk but they weren't impressive.

But they won, so what does that mean for us?

[left_hook_lacey]

Refs were doing their best to follow the points of emphasis.

I'd be ecstatic if they carried it through the season.

I imagine they'll be back to the usual physical play by mid-January. Again. (I still miss flowy hoops!)

-jk


Me too. But you know they won't. I've harped on this in other threads so I'll leave it alone for now. But the "early season points of emphasis" really get my goat.

[sdotbarbee]

I love Frank's 3 to tie the game with less than 10 seconds left. Big shot, in a big game, against a big opponent, in a big arena. No reason for him to be anything but 100% confident going forward.

That being said, my biggest concern/hope is that Grayson isn't seriously injured. My first reaction when he went down with a rearward twisting knee was ACL tear. The fact that he played at all in the second half means that I was probably wrong, unless he is bionic beyond Kyle Singler standards. But he was clearly limping in the second half so something is definitely wrong. For his sake, I hope it's just a sprain. He needs this year to secure a high spot in the 2017 NBA draft, which he richly deserves.

Wasn't really concerned about ACL, he was grabbing the shin/calf area as someone who has torn their ACL twice that is not where you grab. I was concerned it was a high ankle sprain from the way his foot twisted under his leg when he landed.

[Saratoga2]

General Thoughts:

The team showed a lot of heart to come back in the end. No problem with toughness.

Too many turnovers with some lazy passes and traveling. Kansas guards did keep the pressure on us. They were quicker than us.

Playing six in a game where fouls were being called tightly and a lot of pressure was put on our players. Our guys had to be tired. Could Vrank matchup with their big guy? Could Javin have helped the cause for a few more minutes? Could Jack had eaten a few minutes? In light of Kansas playing more deeply into their rotation, you have to think of those questions.

Our bigs need to improve their foul shooting.

At least right now, we are reliant on Luke, Grayson, Frank and Amile for the bulk of our scoring. Luke needs to be encouraged even more to make the offense go.

Specifics:

Luke had an excellent game. He is our most consistent scorer at least for the time being and he makes solid plays to set up others.

Chase had his best game. We can expect him to block some shots, get a few rebounds and score off of dunks when fed close to the basket. Big improvement from last year.

Amile did show some offensive moves around the basket but is not a real 5 when he has to go up against a 7' 280# center. He played well at times but maybe the minutes played along with the pressure hurt his game in the second half.

Kansas defense was designed to put pressure on our best scorers and Grayson found himself constantly guarded by a quick player who stayed in front of him. His offense wasn't up to the usual but Kansas had a lot to do with that.

Frank's initial part of the game was a learning experience for him and he definitely was having trouble but as the game moved along his game was improving. He really helped at the end.

Matt put up what we would expect from him. Good defense and opportunistic scoring.

I think we all expected a tight game and we definitely were in this one and will get better going forward.

[NYBri]

i thought the game looked like a match between a team and a group of talented guys playing pick up...

We stand around waiting for someone to flash a move or hit a jumper. No movement, no cutting, no plays.

Passing was like they didn't know where their teammates were going.

I thought they looked like an uncoached version of last year's team.

A bit harsh, but that's what I saw.

[fuse]

Woke up thinking that Frank Jackson had a couple Tyus Stones moments in the game. No fear in taking the big shots.

[Billy Dat]

i thought the game looked like a match between a team and a group of talented guys playing pick up...

We stand around waiting for someone to flash a move or hit a jumper. No movement, no cutting, no plays.

Passing was like they didn't know where their teammates were going.

I thought they looked like an uncoached version of last year's team.

A bit harsh, but that's what I saw.

I agree with this assessment of our offense for all but the last few minutes when desperation made them lose their tentativeness. Otherwise, we were going to that spread set but not running it with any intent. We'd take too long to start any kind of screening and cutting action, and when we did we were slow, indecisive and generally lacking pep in our step. I think Grayson was the poster boy for this and the others were looking to him to lead by example. Eventually, Luke decided he should take on the mantel, but Kansas largely stayed home on 3 point shooters eliminating the drive and kick game and let the drivers take their chances on finishing over length, or they let Chase go one-on-one. I didn't think out O made their D work hard enough.

For everyone killing Bilas, I thought he largely gave us, especially Grayson, a pass. He was most critical of the refs calls against Kansas.

[ipatent]

Well, at least they won't have the undefeated monkey on their backs going into the postseason.

Allen and Kennard are great players when they have space to operate, but still have the limitations that were exposed in the Kentucky game last year when they don't. Jackson is a little more of a ball handler, but doesn't have the experience to fight through half court pressure like we saw last night and make space for the others. The same quickness limitations were also evident on defense. They'll look better when the reinforcements arrive.

Tatum's presence alone probably would have made them that space.

Chase missed some free throws and conversion opportunities inside, but he has made great strides since last year, conserving his fouls and playing pretty effective defense.

With that said it was close. It was KU's second game against top competition, and Duke's first...that may have been the difference.

[91_92_01_10_15]

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5765276

[CDu]

I'm hopeful about Grayson's situation because he did a beautiful Euro step. Can't really a Euro step without fully functioning ACLs in both legs, right?

Correct. It looked to me more like cramping or a tweaked hammy. He certainly didn't look to be limping for most of the second half. And nothing about his second half suggested problems with the knee.

[SlapTheFloor]

I thought Coach K's comments on Grayson were interesting. Said he works hard when he has the ball, but doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't. Also said he drives with the expectation that a foul will be called.

[DukieInBrasil]

It's comforting to know that we can go toe-to-toe with any team even without 3 of our highly touted players who play precisely where we got hurt the most last night.
One thing that i have to say though, as yet another person who has never won a Natty, is that Duke's bench could have been helpful. Although Jeter played competently, using Delaurier and Vrank sparingly could have really helped salve the foul trouble for our front-court. Playing White would not have made any sense though.
I would have liked to see Duke play thru Kennard more, particularly instead of Allen, who had a miserable game. 22 points on 10 shots (13 O possessions) is a magnificent performance. On the play that Allen went to the court in pain there should have been 2 fouls called: one when he kinda took a shot to the ribs and then when he got clobbered across the face. The first was pretty hard to see without replay but the second was clear as day. Grayson is certainly not the beneficiary of the ref's well-wishes.
Duke's lack of a PG was probably the difference in the game. There were several plays where poor dribbling or sloppy passes led to turnovers, and ended up being the difference. One in particular, with Jackson driving in the 2nd half, and he dribbled it off his leg (or maybe had it poked too), led to a turnover and points and also stalled our comeback momentum.
I have to say, the officiating was terrible. Not that it was worse for Duke, just that it had more influence on the game than the players did. The game was painful to watch.

[mgtr]

I think Amile is great at the 4, not so much at the 5. But the real problem is when he rotates out to the 3 point line - he makes lazy passes for turnovers. He has done that in almost every game so far. This is not surprising, as he doesn't have that much experience out there. Love his offensive moves inside - something he didn't have in prior years.
Certainly hope that Grayson is OK, we don't need more injuries. Props to the team for a valiant effort under difficult circumstances.

[Duke76]

I agree with this assessment of our offense for all but the last few minutes when desperation made them lose their tentativeness. Otherwise, we were going to that spread set but not running it with any intent. We'd take too long to start any kind of screening and cutting action, and when we did we were slow, indecisive and generally lacking pep in our step. I think Grayson was the poster boy for this and the others were looking to him to lead by example. Eventually, Luke decided he should take on the mantel, but Kansas largely stayed home on 3 point shooters eliminating the drive and kick game and let the drivers take their chances on finishing over length, or they let Chase go one-on-one. I didn't think out O made their D work hard enough.

For everyone killing Bilas, I thought he largely gave us, especially Grayson, a pass. He was most critical of the refs calls against Kansas.

I really would like to see Grayson play more like JJ when he never stopped running on offense without the ball...he has to step up when he doesn't have the ball and Coach K said as much in the press conference when he said something like that...."he's good with the ball, he needs to player harder without the ball"

by no means knocking Grayson in a material way but each team's best defensive guy is going to be on Grayson every game, stuck to his hip and he is going to have to learn how to get separation like JJ would do constantly running off picks.....I saw it once last year against GTech in Atlanta last year when they were calling those plays and he went off cause he was open when he got the ball...last night when he got the ball he was stationary and the guy was right in his grill

[Billy Dat]

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5765276

Great K jab/callback to Dillon Brooks incident last year. When talking about Frank Mason, K said something like, "I said something to him in the handshake line because, you know, that's something that I do now...I notice no one is asking me what I said to him (Mason)...don't worry, I'm about to tell you..."

K placed most of the blame on our defense at the start of the second half. He liked the way we played for the last 10 minutes. He lauded Kennard, Jeter and Jackson once Frank made the adjustment. He was critical of Grayson as SlapTheFloor described. No words about Amile or Matt.

[rifraf]

Bad:

It looks to me that our ceiling will be limited by how many starter minutes Jeter and Jones play. Jefferson, Jeter, and Jones are glue guys. They all have valuable minutes (Jeter looked great early) and a role on the team but all three on the court for extended periods of time gives up too much, especially offensively. Jones still can't seem to make his own shot and Jeter was getting bodied by players giving up a foot to him. Having all three them on the court at the same time allowed Kansas, I think, to really lock down on Allen and Kennard which contributed to Allen's relatively poor night.

Please let Allen's injury be nothing.

Turnovers.

Good:

We just took the #7 team in the country to the wire missing basically our entire recruiting class. That's great.

Jackson isn't afraid to step up and has a lot of confidence. Also, his face looks like Bobby Hurley when he's angry and that benefit can't be underestimated.

Kennard, wow. Knew he'd be good but it looks like he added Allen's freshman driving skill set to his already solid shooting and court awareness. He looks like he's going to be great this year.

Jeter looks to be much improved. Not 30+ minutes improved, but much improved.

Most importantly: We didn't give up. We went down 11 and pulled back in a big way at the end. A lucky bounce here or there or better defense on the last play and we might have walked out winners.

[Newton_14]

great effort by our team. I am not discouraged at all. At full strength I am confident we run them out of the gym. I am just disappointed that in a game where every little thing was a foul, Grayson can drive and take a body blow and a hand slap directly to the face and the ref's just are not going to call it. That is just sad.

[Dukehky]

Great K jab/callback to Dillon Brooks incident last year. When talking about Frank Mason, K said something like, "I said something to him in the handshake line because, you know, that's something that I do now...I notice no one is asking me what I said to him (Mason)...don't worry, I'm about to tell you..."

K placed most of the blame on our defense at the start of the second half. He liked the way we played for the last 10 minutes. He lauded Kennard, Jeter and Jackson once Frank made the adjustment. He was critical of Grayson as SlapTheFloor described. No words about Amile or Matt.

I thought Amile's body language was pretty terrible while we were not playing well there in the second half.

Also, guys, Matt is a phenomenal off ball and team defender, but to say he's a stopper is not correct. I know Frank Mason is really, really good, but Frank Jackson is our best on ball defender and should have been on the ball there. I think he will be by the end of the year.

Grayson, I just don't know man. We'll see. He's great for sure, but he can be extremely frustrating.



ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, we almost pulled this game out of our bottoms. Lots to be excited about. Would have liked to have seen Javin and or Vrank get a minute or two in the first half somewhere.

[sagegrouse]

The referees have truly made College basketball a boring brand of basketball. That said we looked like the worst #1 ranked team that I have seen play.This team needs a lot of work. Coach K will have his work cut out for him. Kennard was excellent and Jefferson had his moments and Jeter is so much better than last season.Allen was off as was Jones.Jackson will get better. I know its early but we should have beaten Kansas. They played much better than Duke, but we could not capitalize on their fouling. Our rebounding was atrocious.

The "points of emphasis," as I understand it, are designed to create a game that is less physical and flows more smoothly -- like the best of the NBA. The players need to adjust to the new regime, or, maybe the refs just go back to the old way of calling fouls, and we have physical play making it impossible for players to drive through the lane.

[Billy Dat]

The M*A*S*H Unit, Giles/Tatum/Obi/Bolden, either looked like the Four Tops, or a stylish version of the Reservoir Dogs, in their matching suits.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Frustrating game with no flow due to the refs. As Bilas was saying repeatedly, most of the calls were theoretically right by the letter of the law, but at some point they have to let the guys play.

I was very happy to see Jeter get 26 minutes. He has historically been a walking foul, so it was impressive that he stayed out there so long, particularly in a game whistled so closely.

I think greater use of the bench would have been helpful - stick in Javin for a few minutes here and there to provide some energy and be a guy who does not have to be tentative due to foul trouble.

Josh Jackson on Kansas has a world of potential, but really has to get his attitude under control - the technical and some of his facial expressions were uncalled for - I don't think he is a bad kid. When he went on a little run of great plays, I was really wishing we had Tatum to match up with him - it would have been great to see them go at it.

[Kedsy]

Correct. It looked to me more like cramping or a tweaked hammy. He certainly didn't look to be limping for most of the second half. And nothing about his second half suggested problems with the knee.

After Grayson made his last layup, he grabbed his hamstring. I think on the right side, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Then he limped to the team huddle. It might have been bothering him before that.

[Wander]

I thought Coach K's comments on Grayson were interesting. Said he works hard when he has the ball, but doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't. Also said he drives with the expectation that a foul will be called.

Grayson also shot horribly against our two biggest non-conference opponents last year. I think he needs to prove that he doesn't have as much drop-off against great competition if he's going to seriously contend for NPOY and lottery pick honors.

[MNBlueDevil4]

I think greater use of the bench would have been helpful - stick in Javin for a few minutes here and there to provide some energy and be a guy who does not have to be tentative due to foul trouble.




I agree with your point about Javin. But that could also just be me being selfish, because I was not able to watch the first two regular season games due to family events, so I was just mainly curious to see what he could do.

[Neals384]

One thing is abundantly clear to me - we desperately need a point guard. It doesn't matter how much height and talent were wearing suits tonight. Oh if this team still had Thornton ...

Yuck. I like our guards just fine, thank you.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) First, I want congratule Kansas, and more specifically Frank Mason III and Devonte Graham. Both were studs are really show the value of a 2 PG backcourt. In college, a 2 PG line-up works a lot more than it should. Also, Josh Jackson needs to take a chill pill...

2) I feel we were lucky to be in the game. Kansas outrebounded us by 9, shot an insane 65% on two-point shots, and forced us into 16 turnovers. We got close because Kansas can't shoot threes (11.8% on the night), foul trouble (moreso for them than us), and we shot 42% from deep. It was an exciting last 3 minutes, but otherwise this was boring, bad, basketball.

3) Luke Kennard - welcome to the show! He led the team in points (22), rebounds (5), and assists (5). Really great effort.

4) Grayson has these games once in a while. I thought he forced a few shots and, as Coach K said, he was really hunting to get followed and not concentrating on scoring (yes, yes, I realize he got fouled a couple of times and these weren't called).

5) Amile had a poor game. It wasn't just the turnovers (7!), but only 4 rebounds in 30 minutes for Amile? Arguably one of the best rebounders in the ACC? Also, his body language at times was just terrible. I kinda felt bad for Frank Jackson...

6) These last three games that shown the need to get better PG from our group. We have 45 assists vs 41 turnovers on the season. Not good.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) First, I want congratule Kansas, and more specifically Frank Mason III and Devonte Graham. Both were studs are really show the value of a 2 PG backcourt. In college, a 2 PG line-up works a lot more than it should. Also, Josh Jackson needs to take a chill pill...

2) I feel we were lucky to be in the game. Kansas outrebounded us by 9, shot an insane 65% on two-point shots, and forced us into 16 turnovers. We got close because Kansas can't shoot threes (11.8% on the night), foul trouble (moreso for them than us), and we shot 42% from deep. It was an exciting last 3 minutes, but otherwise this was boring, bad, basketball.

3) Luke Kennard - welcome to the show! He led the team in points (22), rebounds (5), and assists (5). Really great effort.

4) Grayson has these games once in a while. I thought he forced a few shots and, as Coach K said, he was really hunting to get followed and not concentrating on scoring (yes, yes, I realize he got fouled a couple of times and these weren't called).

5) Amile had a poor game. It wasn't just the turnovers (7!), but only 4 rebounds in 30 minutes for Amile? Arguably one of the best rebounders in the ACC? Also, his body language at times was just terrible. I kinda felt bad for Frank Jackson...

6) These last three games that shown the need to get better PG from our group. We have 45 assists vs 41 turnovers on the season. Not good.

7) Also, what do I do with this 40-0 tattoo? ;)

[rsvman]

Grayson also shot horribly against our two biggest non-conference opponents last year. I think he needs to prove that he doesn't have as much drop-off against great competition if he's going to seriously contend for NPOY and lottery pick honors.

A lot of chatter this morning about how Grayson plays poorly in big games on big stages. Got me to thinking a bit. Has Grayson ever played well in a big game against a top opponent?

My memory is a little hazy, but I seem to recall one game, in particular........hmmm.......who were we playing?..........oh, I remember, I think............some team from the Big 10, maybe? I remember that they had a really tall guy who could shoot threes really well............I dunno.....maybe some of you will recall the situation better than I do.................seems like maybe we were down by 9 or 10 points or something but came back to win?.............Not sure, but that's the way I remember it.

[TexHawk]

I enjoyed this game as much as you all seemed to, and my team won. Really unfortunate, because I was looking forward to it once we signed Josh Jackson this summer. Here's hoping everyone gets healthy and we see you all again in April.

Couple notes:

Not sure why some think KU should have blown anybody out last night. Bill Self teams always start slow, this is only the 2nd game we've won in the Champions Classic. Not sure why that is, but it's the norm at this point. While I am quite confident Duke will get a lot better as the season progresses and guys get healthy, KU is going to improve as well.
I could handle the "points of emphasis" stuff if they didn't revert to the usual by January, which we all know is going to happen. KU's two starting big men combined to play 30 minutes total, Jackson only played 18. Even though he played ok, Udoka Azubuike has no business playing 15 minutes against the #1 team in the country.
While I am happy he was on my team last night, Hero Ball does not suit Frank Mason. He makes great plays to keep us in games, but he also makes too many mental mistakes, especially defensively. He deserves a lot of credit for the D on Allen last night, but his mental lapses direcly gave Duke 7 points in the last 90 seconds. He's got a litte Sherron Collins in him, which is a good thing 97% of the time. The other 3% he keeps us in games we should be dominating. I worry that the other players will stand and watch him too much in close games later in the year, which works until it doesn't. (This is was what happened with Collins against Northern Iowa.)
On the flip side, I could not have been more impressed with Kennard. Playing without Tatum for a bit is going to give him some great experience being the 2nd option. That will help later in the year when other guys are struggling or in foul trouble, and you need him to win a game for you.
I have always defended Bilas to my CBB friends, but last night was rough for him. I don't need a lecture on what should/should not upset me watching a basketball game.

[DukieInBrasil]

i think the Amile Jefferson as Point Forward experiment is gonna have to come to an end. He had 7 turnovers last night, almost half of the team total. As mentioned previously, he makes lazy passes up top and seems to not have the expectation that people are going to try to take it away from him. OTOH, using him as a Point Forward might make more sense if he had someone in the paint to pass it to, so maybe it will be a more effective schema once Bolden and/or Giles return(s).
One play that stood out to me was when Jeter was fighting in the paint, grabbed at least one O-board and/or corralled a near-turnover and went up for an uncontested dunk. And totally flubbed it. His legs were probably feeling like jello at that point, but simply laying it over the rim might have won us the game. There were some possessions where he fought like hell and he looked like a solid player, other times he was completely out of position and got burned badly. Overall, i guess i'm impressed with his improvement from last year.

[OldPhiKap]

A lot of chatter this morning about how Grayson plays poorly in big games on big stages. Got me to thinking a bit. Has Grayson ever played well in a big game against a top opponent?

My memory is a little hazy, but I seem to recall one game, in particular....hmmm....who were we playing?......oh, I remember, I think.......some team from the Big 10, maybe? I remember that they had a really tall guy who could shoot threes really well.......I dunno....maybe some of you will recall the situation better than I do.........seems like maybe we were down by 9 or 10 points or something but came back to win?......Not sure, but that's the way I remember it.

Well, other than helping us win a National Championship, what has he ever really done for us?

Kinda like the Romans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

[dukelifer]

A lot of chatter this morning about how Grayson plays poorly in big games on big stages. Got me to thinking a bit. Has Grayson ever played well in a big game against a top opponent?

My memory is a little hazy, but I seem to recall one game, in particular....hmmm....who were we playing?......oh, I remember, I think.......some team from the Big 10, maybe? I remember that they had a really tall guy who could shoot threes really well.......I dunno....maybe some of you will recall the situation better than I do.........seems like maybe we were down by 9 or 10 points or something but came back to win?......Not sure, but that's the way I remember it.

The current Duke team is down three key players- and Duke was within striking distance. The team is solid but certainly not going to be a force with only six players and no point guard. Tatum will increase the margin for error significantly and Giles and Bolden even more. But without those guys- the team goes as Grayson goes. Hard to worry at this point because the team is incomplete.

[TexHawk]

One more addendum to #2 above, just looked at the box score again and saw that Lagerald Vick played 32 minutes, the 5th most of any other player on both sides last night. I actually like him as a player, he's a nice backup, but we're doomed if he's getting 25+ mpg after the new year.

While I understand the idea behind the foul emphasis, that's just not a good way to sell the game. Nobody paid $150+ to watch Lagerald Vick play basketball in MSG. You wouldn't see the NBA or NFL make the same kind of mistake.

[bluenorth]

The refereeing was obviously tight, as expected early in the season with the new points of emphasis still fresh in the officials' minds. I agree that by January things will be closer to the usual standards. In games like this the players have to get a read on what is going to be called and adjust accordingly. I know, why should the players have to adjust? Because they want to stay in the game. I thought that the players on both squads made that kind of adjustment about midway through the first half, and then at the start of the second they seemed to forget what they had learned.

So right now, who is the most important person for the team? My vote goes to the team doctor. He's definitely earning his pay, especially if he can get all of the walking wounded back on the court before Christmas.

[Neals384]

7) Also, what do I do with this 40-0 tattoo? ;)

See post #57.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I enjoyed this game as much as you all seemed to, and my team won. Really unfortunate, because I was looking forward to it once we signed Josh Jackson this summer. Here's hoping everyone gets healthy and we see you all again in April.

Couple notes:

Not sure why some think KU should have blown anybody out last night. Bill Self teams always start slow, this is only the 2nd game we've won in the Champions Classic. Not sure why that is, but it's the norm at this point. While I am quite confident Duke will get a lot better as the season progresses and guys get healthy, KU is going to improve as well.
I could handle the "points of emphasis" stuff if they didn't revert to the usual by January, which we all know is going to happen. KU's two starting big men combined to play 30 minutes total, Jackson only played 18. Even though he played ok, Udoka Azubuike has no business playing 15 minutes against the #1 team in the country.
While I am happy he was on my team last night, Hero Ball does not suit Frank Mason. He makes great plays to keep us in games, but he also makes too many mental mistakes, especially defensively. He deserves a lot of credit for the D on Allen last night, but his mental lapses direcly gave Duke 7 points in the last 90 seconds. He's got a litte Sherron Collins in him, which is a good thing 97% of the time. The other 3% he keeps us in games we should be dominating. I worry that the other players will stand and watch him too much in close games later in the year, which works until it doesn't. (This is was what happened with Collins against Northern Iowa.)
On the flip side, I could not have been more impressed with Kennard. Playing without Tatum for a bit is going to give him some great experience being the 2nd option. That will help later in the year when other guys are struggling or in foul trouble, and you need him to win a game for you.
I have always defended Bilas to my CBB friends, but last night was rough for him. I don't need a lecture on what should/should not upset me watching a basketball game.


Great points, Troublehawk. I have a few of my own after getting some light sleep last night. Getting the three freshmen back is going to radically change this team.

1. For starters, depth means that K will be let his guys press on D, both full court and half court. He played around with that in the first half, but foul trouble and just the limits of a 6-man rotation led to a less than stellar defense. I think Jeter has earned playing time and is a better defender than offensive player at this point in time. That leads me to believe that K will trust that Jeter can play for 10-20 minutes a game even with Bolden and Giles back and in the mix. Also, a four-man frontcourt rotation means that Duke can afford to press and play up-and-down without worrying about players being gassed at the end of the game.

2. Giles and Bolden will also provide 10 more fouls per game so that no one post player will be saddled with 3 fouls in the first half or 4 fouls throughout the second half. Playing normal defense throughout the game, instead of the kind where you try to avoid fouling, will further improve what has been a pretty good defensive effort thus far this season.

3. The defensive potential of Tatum is going to do wonders to this team. Duke doesn't have another player like Tatum on the roster. Jones and Kennard are decent at guarding bigger wings, but Josh Jackson exposed them to a certain degree. I wonder if Tatum would have been able to contain him a little when he was going off in the second half.

4. Offensively, Tatum adds yet another scoring option that teams will have to respect. To shut down Allen, Kennard, AND Tatum, (or even Jackson) no one player will be able to receive a double-team. And then Tatum present matchup problems. Teams will have to choose to play their best wing defender against one of our guys. Pick your poison. While Grayson Allen struggled due to his own decisions last night (and at least one questionable non-call), I have to believe a lot of that was also due to the defensive attention he receives. Meanwhile, Kennard, Jackson, and Jones were a combined 14-22 (63.6%) FG/7-12 (58.3%) 3PT/9-9 (100%) FT in the game last night. Now imagine adding in a top 5 recruit with a highly developed offensive repertoire to that mix. Good night!

5. One final note in response to other posters: Does this team really need a pass-first point guard? Even though the offense looked stagnant at times, the four guards dished out 10 assists against 6 turnovers. I recall Kennard and Jackson getting called for at least one travel each, which can and should be corrected. I really only recall a few times when the guards made a legitimately bad pass or live ball turnover. Having four good passing guards that can score is not a bad thing.

[Dukehky]

Great points, Troublehawk. I have a few of my own after getting some light sleep last night. Getting the three freshmen back is going to radically change this team.

1. For starters, depth means that K will be let his guys press on D, both full court and half court. He played around with that in the first half, but foul trouble and just the limits of a 6-man rotation led to a less than stellar defense. I think Jeter has earned playing time and is a better defender than offensive player at this point in time. That leads me to believe that K will trust that Jeter can play for 10-20 minutes a game even with Bolden and Giles back and in the mix. Also, a four-man frontcourt rotation means that Duke can afford to press and play up-and-down without worrying about players being gassed at the end of the game.

2. Giles and Bolden will also provide 10 more fouls per game so that no one post player will be saddled with 3 fouls in the first half or 4 fouls throughout the second half. Playing normal defense throughout the game, instead of the kind where you try to avoid fouling, will further improve what has been a pretty good defensive effort thus far this season.

3. The defensive potential of Tatum is going to do wonders to this team. Duke doesn't have another player like Tatum on the roster. Jones and Kennard are decent at guarding bigger wings, but Josh Jackson exposed them to a certain degree. I wonder if Tatum would have been able to contain him a little when he was going off in the second half.

4. Offensively, Tatum adds yet another scoring option that teams will have to respect. To shut down Allen, Kennard, AND Tatum, (or even Jackson) no one player will be able to receive a double-team. And then Tatum present matchup problems. Teams will have to choose to play their best wing defender against one of our guys. Pick your poison. While Grayson Allen struggled due to his own decisions last night (and at least one questionable non-call), I have to believe a lot of that was also due to the defensive attention he receives. Meanwhile, Kennard, Jackson, and Jones were a combined 14-22 (63.6%) FG/7-12 (58.3%) 3PT/9-9 (100%) FT in the game last night. Now imagine adding in a top 5 recruit with a highly developed offensive repertoire to that mix. Good night!

5. One final note in response to other posters: Does this team really need a pass-first point guard? Even though the offense looked stagnant at times, the four guards dished out 10 assists against 6 turnovers. I recall Kennard and Jackson getting called for at least one travel each, which can and should be corrected. I really only recall a few times when the guards made a legitimately bad pass or live ball turnover. Having four good passing guards that can score is not a bad thing.


Pump the brakes on Tatum as a defender. That is not one of his strong suits coming into college. If it happens that he is a good defender, then that's awesome, but DO NOT think that we're getting some kind of Shane Battier out there on the wing.

[NM Duke Fan]

Luke was great tonight. I like what I am seeing from this group. When we add three lottery picks, we are going to be a handful. I do agree, however, that our achilles heel seems to be defending exactly the kinds of guards that Graham and Mason are.


That has been the main achille's heel in the past more times than I care to remember. As Jackson gains experience he will likely be key, he has some of the physical tools. And some great shot blockers in the paint will also help, hopefully soon!

[NashvilleDevil]

Pump the brakes on Tatum as a defender. That is not one of his strong suits coming into college. If it happens that he is a good defender, then that's awesome, but DO NOT think that we're getting some kind of Shane Battier out there on the wing.

To be fair Ben did say defensive potential he did not say the next Shane Battier.

[moonpie23]

we played like crap...

the refs were high as lab rats

our guys found the path back

their guy hit a clutch shot and didn't leave us much time.


i'm not upset..

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Anyone else seem to notice that Kansas shot 47% from the free throw line?

Missed free throws, tons of walks and offensive fouls, mental mistakes... sure felt like an early season game.

Before the game, I was expecting a defeat due to our short bench. I would have been overjoyed with a win, but will be quite satisfied with the comeback and near theft of a game we had no business winning.

We are going to be really, really good.

[Wander]

A lot of chatter this morning about how Grayson plays poorly in big games on big stages. Got me to thinking a bit. Has Grayson ever played well in a big game against a top opponent?

My memory is a little hazy, but I seem to recall one game, in particular...hmmm...who were we playing?...oh, I remember, I think....some team from the Big 10, maybe? I remember that they had a really tall guy who could shoot threes really well....I dunno...maybe some of you will recall the situation better than I do.....seems like maybe we were down by 9 or 10 points or something but came back to win?...Not sure, but that's the way I remember it.

I'm not interested in simplistic statements like "plays poorly on big stages" which are clearly silly. But I think it's fair to say that Grayson occasionally has a bad habit of driving under the assumption that he's going to get a foul call, and it usually working very well against most teams but not often working very well against teams with NBA-athleticism-level defenders.

I have friends who are knowledgeable NBA fans but very casual college basketball fans and only have seen a few Duke games - Wisconsin, Kentucky, Utah, UNC, Oregon, and Kansas. They all think Grayson is just a typical high-volume player who will shoot you into or out of games at random. Obviously, as someone who follows Duke closely, I strongly disagree with that assessment, but I understand why someone would come to it only watching the biggest Duke games.

(not to complain too much - I think the Kansas game was very encouraging for what our healthy team can do)

[MCFinARL]

I thought Coach K's comments on Grayson were interesting. Said he works hard when he has the ball, but doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't. Also said he drives with the expectation that a foul will be called.

That is certainly what it looked like last night. There were a couple of times when he drove and threw up a ball that had no prayer of going in. With better offensive rebounding, maybe someone can take that chance every now and then if no better option presents itself. But there wasn't better offensive rebounding, and it was costly last night.

Not ready to tag him with "Grayson never plays well in big games," though. Re the Champions Classic, it may be partly a problem that it comes early in the season, when, both last year and this, he has been adapting to a new role and new pressures (can't think being tabbed Preseason Player of the Year reduces the pressures on him).

[jv001]

Positives: 1) The team did not give up. They showed lot's of heart/desire.
2) Jeter has improved vastly. He was up against some really big dudes and he did not back down. Way to go big guy.
3) Matt kept us in the game with some big 3's. Underappreciated-yes but not by me in this game.
4) Amile played really hard and is the best communicator on the team.
5) Luke played well and hit some big shots.
6) Frank stepped up and hit the 3 to tie the game with only about 8 seconds to go in the game.
7) Grayson showed his toughness by returning to the game even though he was not 100%.

Negatives:
1) Our perimeter guys were beaten soundly off the dribble. I guess Matt did the best job of staying in the same time zone of his man.
2) Amile was so careless with the ball. 7 turnovers and only 2 assists. We need a point guard or point forward.
3) We were really bad at boxing out and we were killed on the boards. Luke lead the team with 7 rebounds.
4) Turnovers was probably the worse thing I can think of. 16 to 12 assists. That stinks.
5) Free throws shot at 70% doesn't sound so bad until you break it down. Jeter was 5-10 and Amile was 4-7. That's 8 of our 9 misses. Come on guys.
6) This one is no surprise. We really miss Giles, Bolden and Tatum. If for nothing else, they could help with the foul trouble we had. I don't think Kansas would have out rebounded us and we probably kill them on the boards.

I'm in the camp of those expecting those 3 to return by the first of December. Well, Tatum and Giles anyway. I have no idea when Bolden returns because of the mystery of his injury. But it's going to get better and I hope it begins soon.
Talent usually wins in the end and we have plenty of it, but a lot of it is on the bench dressed to impress. GoDuke!

[DavidBenAkiva]

To be fair Ben did say defensive potential he did not say the next Shane Battier.

Thank you. I didn't say that Tatum is going to be Shane Battier x2. I have read from scouts and observers things like this:

"Defensively, Tatum doesn't always show great intensity at this stage, but is capable of being very disruptive when locked in. He has both the tools, and the instincts to be a real playmaker in the passing lanes and as a shot-blocker, but will need to show better desire to utilize them more frequently."

Source: DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jayson-Tatum-7249/)

That's what I meant - he's 6'8" tall with a 6'11" wingspan that CAN be a disruptive force in passing lanes and on the perimeter. Can he be that kind of player every game? I have no idea. But I would like to see him go against the bigger wings. He COULD be a game changer.

[sagegrouse]

Grayson also shot horribly against our two biggest non-conference opponents last year. I think he needs to prove that he doesn't have as much drop-off against great competition if he's going to seriously contend for NPOY and lottery pick honors.

Sorry, Wander, but you're sniping, and Grayson doesn't deserve this. He did poorly against Kentucky at United Center and Utah at Madison Square Garden? Both games were meaningless, really. Would you give him credit for game-winning shots against UVa and Louisville? How about for shooting 42 percent from three and making 84 percent of his free throws and averaging 21.6 PPG and scoring at least 15 points against every single conference opponent, even though he was the obvious target of the defenses. Moreover, he was the target of venom and criticism on a national level that was utterly and totally undeserved.

[Isaac Sours]

I know Coach K has 5 titles and a thousand wins. I know I do not. But I wonder why Delaurier, White, and Vrankovic are even on the roster if we can't play them when a) grayson is struggling and b) there's PLENTY of foul trouble? I think he doesn't trust his ability to develop players, which is why we only played 6 dudes all night. It's real frustrating to have a top 3 recruiting class and then not use the vast majority of it.

[jv001]

Sorry, Wander, but you're sniping, and Grayson doesn't deserve this. He did poorly against Kentucky at United Center and Utah at Madison Square Garden? Both games were meaningless, really. Would you give him credit for game-winning shots against UVa and Louisville? How about for shooting 42 percent from three and making 84 percent of his free throws and averaging 21.6 PPG and scoring at least 15 points against every single conference opponent, even though he was the obvious target of the defenses. Moreover, he was the target of venom and criticism on a national level that was utterly and totally undeserved.

Couldn't give sporks, but a GoDuke will have to do. Grayson is the target of all the teams we face. Then he has to put up with the idiot fans on the road. Then you throw in the media and I don't know how the kid played as well as he did last season. Now this season he has the pressure of being picked by many to be National Player of the Year. He needs all the support we can give him. GoGrayson and GoDuke!

[Wander]

Sorry, Wander, but you're sniping, and Grayson doesn't deserve this. He did poorly against Kentucky at United Center and Utah at Madison Square Garden? Both games were meaningless, really. Would you give him credit for game-winning shots against UVa and Louisville? How about for shooting 42 percent from three and making 84 percent of his free throws and averaging 21.6 PPG and scoring at least 15 points against every single conference opponent, even though he was the obvious target of the defenses. Moreover, he was the target of venom and criticism on a national level that was utterly and totally undeserved.

Yes, I give him credit for all those things and think he's a great player. Not sure why you think that's inconsistent with my previous statement.

[UrinalCake]

Yes, I give him credit for all those things and think he's a great player. Not sure why you think that's inconsistent with my previous statement.

I would also add the S16 game against Oregon to the list of big games in which Grayson has struggled. What all of those opponents have in common are big athletic defenders under the basket who could challenge him after getting by his man. He's gotten better at looking to pass and not forcing it when the shot isn't there, but still does have tunnel vision at times and goes straight at the rim hoping for a foul. Coach K himself even said the same thing. I do think he was playing hurt tonight, but he will need to continue to improve as a facilitator and distributor and to find other ways to score.

[Kfanarmy]

One of my concerns for most of Duke's teams the past decade has been poor passing to the interior, getting the ball to a guy as he is in position or as he moves into position for a short range shot/dunk. Fortunately, Duke has generally been a Guard/wing oriented team where passing on the exterior of the paint has helped create 3 point opportunities and opened up driving lanes. I am a bit concerned with Duke's size this year that they will have the physical attributes to dominate inside, but nobody will be able to pass the ball to big guys inside. At the same time, Duke bigs will draw opposing players to the interior, limiting drive opportunities. Does that make sense?

[moonpie23]

I know Coach K has 5 titles and a thousand wins. .

redacted....

[devildeac]

I thought Coach K's comments on Grayson were interesting. Said he works hard when he has the ball, but doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't. Also said he drives with the expectation that a foul will be called.

In addition to the "points of emphasis" this year, blows to the chest and face while a player is in the air and shooting are still considered fouls. I think. :mad:

[ChillinDuke]

That is certainly what it looked like last night. There were a couple of times when he drove and threw up a ball that had no prayer of going in. With better offensive rebounding, maybe someone can take that chance every now and then if no better option presents itself. But there wasn't better offensive rebounding, and it was costly last night.

Not ready to tag him with "Grayson never plays well in big games," though. Re the Champions Classic, it may be partly a problem that it comes early in the season, when, both last year and this, he has been adapting to a new role and new pressures (can't think being tabbed Preseason Player of the Year reduces the pressures on him).

Not picking on you, MCF, but what are some posters talking about that Grayson Allen doesn't show up in big games? The guy averaged 21.6 ppg last season and has rightly earned the label of best returning college player this season. He didn't do that by only playing well in gimmies. C'mon.

A very, very quick search on GoDuke shows that in two games last season against national runner-up UNC [spine-curling shiver], Grayson averaged 26, 5.5, 2.5 assists, and only 1 turnover. Do I even need to dig any further than this? Sheesh.

He didn't shoot particularly well in those games, but the point stands. Kid is a baller. He had a rough game last night, but he had a lot of very not rough games last year.

- Chillin

ETA - Sage beat me to this with an even better post.

[mo.st.dukie]

I know Coach K has 5 titles and a thousand wins. I know I do not. But I wonder why Delaurier, White, and Vrankovic are even on the roster if we can't play them when a) grayson is struggling and b) there's PLENTY of foul trouble? I think he doesn't trust his ability to develop players, which is why we only played 6 dudes all night. It's real frustrating to have a top 3 recruiting class and then not use the vast majority of it.

Well 50% of the recruiting class would have gotten big minutes but were injured. Of course Frank Jackson got quality minutes and if you thought White and Vrankovic were going to play against high major opponents you had way too high of expectations. Those two are practice guys until they are upperclassmen, they're just not good enough yet to warrant minutes against good teams. DeLaurier might have helped but probably not much

[DukeWarhead]

We may be over-analyzing this. Clearly the black unis did us in. Damn them. :rolleyes:

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I know Coach K has 5 titles and a thousand wins. I know I do not. But I wonder why Delaurier, White, and Vrankovic are even on the roster if we can't play them when a) grayson is struggling and b) there's PLENTY of foul trouble? I think he doesn't trust his ability to develop players, which is why we only played 6 dudes all night. It's real frustrating to have a top 3 recruiting class and then not use the vast majority of it.

So, you think Coach K doesn't trust Coach K's ability to develop players? That confuses me...

[Steven43]

Sorry, Wander, but you're sniping, and Grayson doesn't deserve this. He did poorly against Kentucky at United Center and Utah at Madison Square Garden? Both games were meaningless, really. Would you give him credit for game-winning shots against UVa and Louisville? How about for shooting 42 percent from three and making 84 percent of his free throws and averaging 21.6 PPG and scoring at least 15 points against every single conference opponent, even though he was the obvious target of the defenses. Moreover, he was the target of venom and criticism on a national level that was utterly and totally undeserved.
Absolutely agree. Grayson is a great player and will play well in many big games this year. No worries here. National perception? Who cares.

[Ichabod Drain]

I know Coach K has 5 titles and a thousand wins. I know I do not. But I wonder why Delaurier, White, and Vrankovic are even on the roster if we can't play them when a) grayson is struggling and b) there's PLENTY of foul trouble? I think he doesn't trust his ability to develop players, which is why we only played 6 dudes all night. It's real frustrating to have a top 3 recruiting class and then not use the vast majority of it.

K apparently trusted his ability to develop Jeter. Who has, by the way, developed.

[azzefkram]

Hard to get too worked up over this one. We had a shot to steal a win but ran out of possessions. I'm not sure how worried I should be about our perimeter D since Kansas has one of, if not the, best perimeters in the country. I am hoping that Kansas is that good because we just let Mason, Graham, Jackson and Vick go 18 of 22 at the rim. I am concerned with how sloppy we are with the ball. Yeesh!

As for Grayson, I do think he struggles in big games but I think it's more a function of trying to do too much. Fortunately he has a pretty good coach who should be able to help him with that.

I had this pencilled in for an L when I learned that we would be short GTB. We came a tough Mason make away from forcing overtime.

[Doria]

Well, most of thoughts have already been said, but I'm pretty encouraged, though the game was incredibly painful to watch (with all the whistles, it seemed to last five hours).

Obviously, having our full roster available will help, but we're also going to need players to get used to expanded or different roles, as the team needs. I was encouraged to see Grayson driving, looking to pass; and I was also encouraged to see Chase catching some of those passes and converting (not only in this game, but the last two, as well). I think Amile is going to take a few games, too, which is fine after essentially missing last season. Frank will learn to play with greater consistency, etc.

It's not going to be a straight line of development, but as long as we're learning and improving (and not getting injured!), I'm okay. I'd rather us do all that and win, but I've never thought that the best preparation for post-season is to have never lost. I'm excited for the season, and this game does nothing to diminish that.

[LSanders]

Missing 3 starters and still almost took down Kansas.
I'm actually pretty stoked right now.

Just now getting a chance to check out the board, and THIS is exactly how I feel. Losing sucks, but - Holy Crap! - can you imaging what this team with this much heart are going to be like when all the guys are healthy and in rhythm together?

Awesome game - awesome effort!!

[gam7]

Awesome game - awesome effort!!

Is this you? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lOL2h8F3aA)

[Kedsy]

Overall, I loved what I saw tonight.

I completely agree.

Our team at the end of last regular season was ranked #19. We made it to the Sweet 16 but no further. We only played two ranked, out-of-conference teams all season and lost to both by double digits. From that team, we lost #2 NBA draft pick Brandon Ingram, plus Marshall Plumlee and Derryck Thornton, and (not counting players dressed in street clothes last night) gained Amile Jefferson and Frank Jackson. Having only that information, you'd think our team would be worse than last year's, probably significantly worse, and that we'd probably lose by double-digits to the pre-season #2 team in the country.

But in my opinion we looked a lot better than last year's season-ending team. Despite playing only 6 guys and having four of those six getting tagged with four or more fouls, we were in it until the last seconds. I was thrilled with our performance.

A few additional comments:

-- People have made a lot out of the fact that Kansas took 18 more shots than we did. Part of that was obviously offensive rebounding (and I'll get to that in a minute), but almost just as big a part was the fact that a lot more of our possessions ended in free throws. We took 30 free throws to Kansas' 19. And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that from our standpoint.

-- Kansas grabbed 37.8% of available offensive rebounds. That's pretty good but not outrageous at all. To put it in perspective, the 2006 Duke team allowed the exact same amount, 37.8% of available offensive rebounds, for the whole season. The 1994 Final Four team allowed 38.5% for the season, the 2004 Final Four team allowed 37.1%, the 2001 national champs allowed 36.1%, the 1991 national champs allowed 36.3%, and the 1992 national champions allowed 37.2%.

The real reason offensive rebounding gave Kansas more shots than Duke was not necessarily Kansas' great offensive rebounding, but instead was Duke's anemic offensive rebounding. We only picked up 20% of available offensive rebounds, which is really lousy. That's the main reason Kansas had 8 more opportunities from offensive rebounds than Duke did. Last season's team was not particularly good at offensive rebounding (33%), but if we'd just done as well as that team did, we would have had 5 more offensive opportunities, and the difference offensive rebounding would have only been 3, far less than our advantage on the free throw line.

Breaking it down even further, let's compare our defensive rebounding when Amile was in the game and when he wasn't. Although Amile himself only picked up 4 rebounds (all defensive), while he was on the court Kansas got 7 offensive rebounds vs. 16 Duke defensive rebounds, an offensive rebounding percentage of 30.4%. That's better job of defensive rebounding on Duke's part than our 2010 national champions managed (32.5% offensive rebounds allowed) and almost as good as our 2015 national champions (30.2%). While Amile was on the bench, Kansas had 7 offensive rebounds against 7 Duke rebounds, an offensive rebounding percentage of 50.0% (astronomically high).

I realize Amile can't play 40 minutes every game, but there's an obvious reason I'm not too concerned about that, assuming a hopefully-soon-to-be-active 6'11" center, a 6'10 power forward, and a 6'8" small forward can pick up a few defensive rebounds while Amile is taking a rest. They'll also presumably help us in the offensive rebounding department, hopefully turning what appeared last night to be a major weakness into a big strength.

-- Speaking of Amile, it's also worth noting that after he picked up his fourth foul and had to leave the game, during the next 4 minutes and 2 seconds while he was on the bench, Kansas outscored us 12 to 4. Again, if we'd been able to sub in even one of our three injured future lottery picks, that probably would have come out differently.

-- For those of you down on our defense, I would note that Kansas scored 1.08 points per possession against us last night. According to Pomeroy (which admittedly isn't all that valuable so early in the season), Kansas should be expected to score 1.15 points per possession. Which means we performed above average defensively (possibly well above average, which is presumably a main reason why Pomeroy has our defense ranked #12 in the nation right now), on a night when two of our (probably) better defenders were wearing suits and ties and our three best defenders who did play got hit with 4, 4, and 5 fouls.


That said we looked like the worst #1 ranked team that I have seen play. This team needs a lot of work.

Tell me the truth, when they ranked us #1, do you think they expected Jayson Tatum, Harry Giles, and Marques Bolden to be in street clothes? Put another way, if they thought our active roster didn't include those three players, do you think anybody would have ranked us #1? Seriously, what inspired you to write the above quote? Every team in mid-November needs work, but my guess is the lion's share of the "work" needed for this team will take place in the doctor's office.

In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing we've seen about this team that will remain the same once those three guys are healthy and in the lineup. Sure, Chase is vastly improved, Luke looks like a potential star, Amile and Matt look ready to do all the things you hope senior captains do, and Frank looks like the real deal. But none of their roles will be the same once we add Jayson, Harry, and Marques into the rotation.

In other words, you didn't really see a #1 team play last night. You saw a gritty, overachieving bunch that met or surpassed any reasonable hope we should have had for the game.


Jones still can't seem to make his own shot...

If a guy moves well without the ball and is able to both get open and convert his catch-and-shoot looks, that's "mak[ing] his own shot" too, isn't it? Matt shot 3 for 5 from three-land last night and, by the way, added a really nice blow-by drive for a basket. Not everyone has to start a possession with the ball in his hands. Especially on a team with so many other one-on-one specialists, I think what Matt does on offense is perfect for this team.


At least right now, we are reliant on Luke, Grayson, Frank and Amile for the bulk of our scoring.

Last night Matt scored the same number of points as Frank and one (1) fewer than Grayson and Amile. For the season, he's averaging double-digits in points, and has a higher scoring average than Amile.

What does Matt have to do to get on your list?

[JNort]

Quick thoughts.

• Chase needs to learn to finish stronger
• Grayson needs to play "his game" not the one people want him to play.
• We need our freshmen back
• Our guards still haven't learned to box out

I hate when people come in here after a particular player doesn't play well and say things like "he looked sick" or "something is wrong with him". Just stop already it sounds ridiculous. The player it's being said about is obviously Grayson but he looked fine to me, his problem was he was trying to play pg and distribute instead of trying to play the go to scorer. He had so many chances to draw fouls but passed em up.

[JNort]

I completely agree.

Our team at the end of last regular season was ranked #19. We made it to the Sweet 16 but no further. We only played two ranked, out-of-conference teams all season and lost to both by double digits. From that team, we lost #2 NBA draft pick Brandon Ingram, plus Marshall Plumlee and Derryck Thornton, and (not counting players dressed in street clothes last night) gained Amile Jefferson and Frank Jackson. Having only that information, you'd think our team would be worse than last year's, probably significantly worse, and that we'd probably lose by double-digits to the pre-season #2 team in the country.

But in my opinion we looked a lot better than last year's season-ending team. Despite playing only 6 guys and having four of those six getting tagged with four or more fouls, we were in it until the last seconds. I was thrilled with our performance.

A few additional comments:

-- People have made a lot out of the fact that Kansas took 18 more shots than we did. Part of that was obviously offensive rebounding (and I'll get to that in a minute), but almost just as big a part was the fact that a lot more of our possessions ended in free throws. We took 30 free throws to Kansas' 19. And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that from our standpoint.

-- Kansas grabbed 37.8% of available offensive rebounds. That's pretty good but not outrageous at all. To put it in perspective, the 2006 Duke team allowed the exact same amount, 37.8% of available offensive rebounds, for the whole season. The 1994 Final Four team allowed 38.5% for the season, the 2004 Final Four team allowed 37.1%, the 2001 national champs allowed 36.1%, the 1991 national champs allowed 36.3%, and the 1992 national champions allowed 37.2%.

The real reason offensive rebounding gave Kansas more shots than Duke was not necessarily Kansas' great offensive rebounding, but instead was Duke's anemic offensive rebounding. We only picked up 20% of available offensive rebounds, which is really lousy. That's the main reason Kansas had 8 more opportunities from offensive rebounds than Duke did. Last season's team was not particularly good at offensive rebounding (33%), but if we'd just done as well as that team did, we would have had 5 more offensive opportunities, and the difference offensive rebounding would have only been 3, far less than our advantage on the free throw line.

Breaking it down even further, let's compare our defensive rebounding when Amile was in the game and when he wasn't. Although Amile himself only picked up 4 rebounds (all defensive), while he was on the court Kansas got 7 offensive rebounds vs. 16 Duke defensive rebounds, an offensive rebounding percentage of 30.4%. That's better job of defensive rebounding on Duke's part than our 2010 national champions managed (32.5% offensive rebounds allowed) and almost as good as our 2015 national champions (30.2%). While Amile was on the bench, Kansas had 7 offensive rebounds against 7 Duke rebounds, an offensive rebounding percentage of 50.0% (astronomically high).

I realize Amile can't play 40 minutes every game, but there's an obvious reason I'm not too concerned about that, assuming a hopefully-soon-to-be-active 6'11" center, a 6'10 power forward, and a 6'8" small forward can pick up a few defensive rebounds while Amile is taking a rest. They'll also presumably help us in the offensive rebounding department, hopefully turning what appeared last night to be a major weakness into a big strength.

-- Speaking of Amile, it's also worth noting that after he picked up his fourth foul and had to leave the game, during the next 4 minutes and 2 seconds while he was on the bench, Kansas outscored us 12 to 4. Again, if we'd been able to sub in even one of our three injured future lottery picks, that probably would have come out differently.



Tell me the truth, when they ranked us #1, do you think they expected Jayson Tatum, Harry Giles, and Marques Bolden to be in street clothes? Put another way, if they thought our active roster didn't include those three players, do you think anybody would have ranked us #1? Seriously, what inspired you to write the above quote? Every team in mid-November needs work, but my guess is the lion's share of the "work" needed for this team will take place in the doctor's office.

In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing we've seen about this team that will remain the same once those three guys are healthy and in the lineup. Sure, Chase is vastly improved, Luke looks like a potential star, Amile and Matt look ready to do all the things you hope senior captains do, and Frank looks like the real deal. But none of their roles will be the same once we add Jayson, Harry, and Marques into the rotation.

In other words, you didn't really see a #1 team play last night. You saw a gritty, overachieving bunch that met or surpassed any reasonable hope we should have had for the game.



If a guy moves well without the ball and is able to both get open and convert his catch-and-shoot looks, that's "mak[ing] his own shot" too, isn't it? Matt shot 3 for 5 from three-land last night and, by the way, added a really nice blow-by drive for a basket. Not everyone has to start a possession with the ball in his hands. Especially on a team with so many other one-on-one specialists, I think what Matt does on offense is perfect for this team.



Last night Matt scored the same number of points as Frank and one (1) fewer than Grayson and Amile. For the season, he's averaging double-digits in points, and has a higher scoring average than Amile.

What does Matt have to do to get on your list?

One quibble here. Just cause a player scores doesn't mean you're relying on him to score, it's just a bonus. Matt was the beneficiary of guys who drew doubles when driving or posting. Matt is relied upon for two things one of which is defense and the second is to hit open shots.

[Kedsy]

One quibble here. Just cause a player scores doesn't mean you're relying on him to score, it's just a bonus.

I admit I don't entirely understand. If a team scores 88 points a game, and player A averages 11 of those 88 points while player B averages 10, in what way are we relying on player B's 10 points more than player A's 11 points? If player A scores 0 points in a particular game, are we not going to miss those 11 points?

I'm not being snarky, I really don't get your point.

[Li_Duke]

Consider me impressed. Our free throw defense was just terrific!

Joke aside, I'm very impressed and happy with where we are. If we ever get everyone healthy, I think we live up to all the preseason billing (except for the undefeated season talk, of course).

[lotusland]

Sorry, Wander, but you're sniping, and Grayson doesn't deserve this. He did poorly against Kentucky at United Center and Utah at Madison Square Garden? Both games were meaningless, really. Would you give him credit for game-winning shots against UVa and Louisville? How about for shooting 42 percent from three and making 84 percent of his free throws and averaging 21.6 PPG and scoring at least 15 points against every single conference opponent, even though he was the obvious target of the defenses. Moreover, he was the target of venom and criticism on a national level that was utterly and totally undeserved.

I agree completely. Is a conference game against UVA as big as an early season matchup with KU?

https://youtu.be/B8DO-HfmfiA

[DukieInBrasil]

I completely agree.

Last night Matt scored the same number of points as Frank and one (1) fewer than Grayson and Amile. For the season, he's averaging double-digits in points, and has a higher scoring average than Amile.

What does Matt have to do to get on your list?

Matt had an atrocious game vs. Grand Canyon, but i thought he played perfectly for his role last night, in addition to playing all 40 minutes of the game. He made spot up 3s (3-5) and didn't do much on the dribble. One time, maybe not the only time, he drove to the basket and lost the ball which was maddening, but overall he refrained from that and that was good.
The stats for the season so far seem to indicate that Matt's role on offense has really been moved to focusing on spot up shooting is his FT/g, which is 0.7, down from 1.5 last year (less than half). His low FT/g indicate he's not driving the ball nearly as much, which is a good thing for this team.
I've been a harsh critic of Matt in the past, but i think his value to the team is clear, and when he stays within his role on offense he's a perfectly fine complementary player.

[gam7]

Matt had an atrocious game vs. Grand Canyon, but i thought he played perfectly for his role last night, in addition to playing all 40 minutes of the game. He made spot up 3s (3-5) and didn't do much on the dribble. One time, maybe not the only time, he drove to the basket and lost the ball which was maddening, but overall he refrained from that and that was good.
The stats for the season so far seem to indicate that Matt's role on offense has really been moved to focusing on spot up shooting is his FT/g, which is 0.7, down from 1.5 last year (less than half). His low FT/g indicate he's not driving the ball nearly as much, which is a good thing for this team.
I've been a harsh critic of Matt in the past, but i think his value to the team is clear, and when he stays within his role on offense he's a perfectly fine complementary player.

He did have a nice driving layup late in the second half, including, I believe, a finish with his left hand. It was a horrible defensive play by Kansas, but still...

[ipatent]

Things would have gotten ugly last night without Matt Jones's defense. He's not Magic Johnson coming down the floor but he hits his set shots.

On the issue of why Delaurier didn't play more, he's probably still learning to play team defense, which Jeter is starting to get.

[weezie]

Looks like this thread has been a slow, steady burner. I doubt that any of those kids were awake for more than a minute of the flight home. They looked utterly spent. Grayson had to have lost five pounds during the game, wow was he fighting. K went into his magenta-faced mode and, by Zeus, he nearly pulled it off. Plenty of jayhawk fan posturing and gloating afterwards. They're cute when they nearly pass out from fear. Saw Lance Thomas on the street, he looks great!
Good sign: still a major underpinning of Duke Basketball, make one mistake against us and it snowballs...
All in all, they're growing and learning. Next!

[TexHawk]

For perspective...

Lucas and Bragg led KU in rebounds per 40 last season (14 and 11), but hardly played at all last night. Azubuike, a guy who probably wouldn't have played more than 5 minutes w/o the foul trouble, pulled down 12 boards in 15 minutes.
KU shot 2 for 17 from three (12%). They (we) were 4th in the country in 3P% last year, at close to 42%. Yes, Selden > Jackson as a perimeter shooter, but not drastically so. Svi/Vick/Bragg/Graham all shot > 40% from deep in 15-16, but went a combined 1-13 last night.
KU went 9 for 19 from the free throw line (47%). Last year it was 71%, though Ellis (79%) is much better than those taking his minutes this season.

Duke has every reason to be excited, and would very likely be favored in a rematch with a season of experience + the return of injured players, but if the two teams are lucky enough to play again, I wouldn't count on the same struggles from KU in the above areas.

[Troublemaker]

I enjoyed this game as much as you all seemed to, and my team won. Really unfortunate, because I was looking forward to it once we signed Josh Jackson this summer. Here's hoping everyone gets healthy and we see you all again in April.

Couple notes:

Not sure why some think KU should have blown anybody out last night. Bill Self teams always start slow, this is only the 2nd game we've won in the Champions Classic. Not sure why that is, but it's the norm at this point. While I am quite confident Duke will get a lot better as the season progresses and guys get healthy, KU is going to improve as well.


Thanks for your thoughts, TexHawk. Yeah, I don't see the sense in any Duke fan pooh-poohing Kansas. Having watched both your games, I think it's obvious KU's not clicking on all cylinders yet. Which is to be expected -- besides Graham, Mason, and Lucas, the rest of your rotation are new guys or guys taking on a different/expanded role. KU will need time for its players to gain chemistry playing together. Hopefully Duke can get our injured players back soon so WE can start on that process as well. The good news is you guys have an excellent foundation upon which to build in Mason, Graham, and Jackson, who represent the best two-way perimeter trio in the country; they can beat teams with their scoring OR by playing shutdown defense. So, that's your calling card and foundation. Then, from now until March, KU will have to work on extracting more production from Bragg and Udoka, and Jackson will need to develop into one of the best players in the country. I think KU will hit all three marks and be a top-4 team and championship contender in March.

[ipatent]

It was good preparation for Allen, Kennard and Jackson to play the KU backcourt, they have four months to become more effective against that kind of pressure when it counts.

KU was probably a bit fatigued from the recent traveling, but I also suspect facing IU gave them an advantage over Duke and the two cupcakes face so far coming into the game.

[CDu]

For perspective...

Lucas and Bragg led KU in rebounds per 40 last season (14 and 11), but hardly played at all last night. Azubuike, a guy who probably wouldn't have played more than 5 minutes w/o the foul trouble, pulled down 12 boards in 15 minutes.
KU shot 2 for 17 from three (12%). They (we) were 4th in the country in 3P% last year, at close to 42%. Yes, Selden > Jackson as a perimeter shooter, but not drastically so. Svi/Vick/Bragg/Graham all shot > 40% from deep in 15-16, but went a combined 1-13 last night.
KU went 9 for 19 from the free throw line (47%). Last year it was 71%, though Ellis (79%) is much better than those taking his minutes this season.

Duke has every reason to be excited, and would very likely be favored in a rematch with a season of experience + the return of injured players, but if the two teams are lucky enough to play again, I wouldn't count on the same struggles from KU in the above areas.

I don't buy the foul trouble argument, as Duke had just as much foul trouble with our frontcourt. If anything, I would say the interior foul trouble played to your advantage, as you had three bigs to our two. Foul trouble also handcuffed our best perimeter defender and forced him off Mason until late in the game.

I definitely do buy the shooting argument, as your perimeter and FT shooting was abnormal. I would expect you to shoot better if we play again.

That being said, I think the additions of two terrific interior players (giving us the depth and talent advantage inside) and the addition of our only combo forward (we struggled with Josh Jackson's length when trying to use guards on him, and our bigs can't defend him) would more than offset your shooting gains.

That, and I don't think Allen has as awful a game in the hypothetical next time. Kennard probably doesn't shoot as well, though. But on average, I would expect a slight uptick in efficiency from that combo.

[Chard]

No. 1 Duke’s loss to No. 7 Kansas cemented their status as title favorite (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/11/16/no-1-dukes-loss-to-no-7-kansas-cemented-their-status-as-title-favorite/)

[UrinalCake]

People have made a lot out of the fact that Kansas took 18 more shots than we did. Part of that was obviously offensive rebounding (and I'll get to that in a minute), but almost just as big a part was the fact that a lot more of our possessions ended in free throws. We took 30 free throws to Kansas' 19. And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that from our standpoint.

If you assume that every two free throws came from a shooting foul (which of course isn't true), then our 11 additional free throw came from 6 would-be shot attempts (rounding up). Accounting for those, Kansas still took 12 more shots than us which is difficult to overcome. The difference came from their 9 extra rebounds as you described and our 2 additional turnovers.

Getting our three big freshmen back will certainly help in the rebounding department. It will make everyone's job easier on offense by spreading out the scoring load, it will give us some rim protection thus offsetting our perimeter defensive issues, and it will give us depth so that foul trouble and fatigue are not something we're having to fight against. However, it will not help our turnovers - that is an issue that needs to be addressed and may actually get worse when we have our star freshmen in the mix. Something to watch all season IMO.

[sagegrouse]

No. 1 Duke’s loss to No. 7 Kansas cemented their status as title favorite (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/11/16/no-1-dukes-loss-to-no-7-kansas-cemented-their-status-as-title-favorite/)

Coach K's exact words on Grayson's game:


“Grayson had a frustrating game,” head coach Mike Krzyzewski said. “You can’t expect to get fouled. I think he’s going to a point where he makes a move and it’s a good move and he expects a foul.”

“He’s playing hard when he gets the ball, but he needs to play harder when he doesn’t have the ball, which is what he did in the last few minutes.”

[mo.st.dukie]

For perspective...

Lucas and Bragg led KU in rebounds per 40 last season (14 and 11), but hardly played at all last night. Azubuike, a guy who probably wouldn't have played more than 5 minutes w/o the foul trouble, pulled down 12 boards in 15 minutes.
KU shot 2 for 17 from three (12%). They (we) were 4th in the country in 3P% last year, at close to 42%. Yes, Selden > Jackson as a perimeter shooter, but not drastically so. Svi/Vick/Bragg/Graham all shot > 40% from deep in 15-16, but went a combined 1-13 last night.
KU went 9 for 19 from the free throw line (47%). Last year it was 71%, though Ellis (79%) is much better than those taking his minutes this season.

Duke has every reason to be excited, and would very likely be favored in a rematch with a season of experience + the return of injured players, but if the two teams are lucky enough to play again, I wouldn't count on the same struggles from KU in the above areas.


With the 3 freshmen healthy we not only have bigger players to help on the boards but we also have more bodies which means players can fight more for rebounds instead of being fearful of fouling. You guys beat us up on the boards but if we meet again I bet that wouldn't be the case. Rebounding could end up being a strength for Duke, perhaps an overwhelming strength.

There's no telling how well or poorly you guys would shoot from 3 in a hypothetical rematch but I do think you guys would shoot at least a bit worse from 2 if Duke had the 6'8, 6'10, and 6'11, long athletic freshmen in the paint. Our guards might feel much more comfortable defending out on the perimeter and defending against the drive knowing that they have shot blockers to back them up. And again, your second chance points would probably be less than what you got last night.

It's not just that we are adding talent or adding stats (i.e. an additional 25ppg or whatever) by getting these guys back. It's also about the fact that we would be adding depth, size, length, athleticism, and versatility because Tatum can play the 3 or 4, Giles can play the 4 or 5. That changes the team drastically and can have cascading effects in making the other guys better or freeing them up to do what they do best. Think about how subtracting Graham, Josh Jackson, and Carlton Bragg would impact your team. You would still have good, experienced players like Duke currently has but it would change how Kansas would look and play

[Neals384]

Two first half plays were especially noteworthy. First Amile's active defense on the press that forced a bad pass and turnover at 18:13. Second, Chase's block of Mason and rebound defending the fast break at 16:14. While both Amile and Chase had some questionable plays in the game, these two were positively Graysonesque.

[DukieInBrasil]

Two first half plays were especially noteworthy. First Amile's active defense on the press that forced a bad pass and turnover at 18:13. Second, Chase's block of Mason and rebound defending the fast break at 16:14. While both Amile and Chase had some questionable plays in the game, these two were positively Graysonesque.

Yeah, Amile kinda cancelled out how awesome that play was with an extremely lazy bounce pass at the top of the key in the 2nd half. It was supposedly to Luke, who had just cut the other way, it led to a run out fast break dunk.
I made this point earlier, but if the Amile as Point Forward is gonna work, it's gonna have to be with him passing into the post as opposed to out on the wing. At the current moment he doesn't really have the people to pass to that he needs in the post, so he's passing around out top, which didn't work very well vs. a team with good, quick guards.

[ipatent]

Yeah, Amile kinda cancelled out how awesome that play was with an extremely lazy bounce pass at the top of the key in the 2nd half. It was supposedly to Luke, who had just cut the other way, it led to a run out fast break dunk.
I made this point earlier, but if the Amile as Point Forward is gonna work, it's gonna have to be with him passing into the post as opposed to out on the wing. At the current moment he doesn't really have the people to pass to that he needs in the post, so he's passing around out top, which didn't work very well vs. a team with good, quick guards.

Could it be they're practicing point forward plays for Tatum?

[DukieInBrasil]

Could it be they're practicing point forward plays for Tatum?

that would work if Tatum was playing. K wouldn't be running plays in a game for a player that isn't there. He's far too practical for that.
I think they're just working on that as an option for running the offense. we hadn't played anyone with high quality guards yet, and Kansas just exposed the weakness in using Amile as a point forward. He's a good passer in the right conditions, but those conditions weren't met on Tuesday night.

[BD80]

Jeter looks like a different animal this year. He is going to get to the line a LOT this year. Hope he can start to convert.

He got fouled by the rim on one attempted dunk on a put-back. No call.


All you need is a bottle of tequila and a good belt sander.

Come on, at least use a Dremel. There's always a proper tool for the job. More power just for fun can result in shoddy workmanship. You want to leave enough tissue for future lapses in judgment.

[Troublemaker]

He got fouled by the rim on one attempted dunk on a put-back. No call.

I thought the rim got all ball on Chase. Good no call. All kidding aside, though, Chase played really well on defense. There were a couple of notable blocked shots, but there were also a few times just being big and tall around the rim forced some missed shots from KU without him needing to block it. He also drew a charge and probably deserved a second one. He mostly played really good team defense, and I just wish he could finish through contact on offense because that one thing will probably limit him to being a little-used 8.5th man in the rotation once the three frosh are playing. Still, some good signs for him being a major contributor as an upperclassman as his development continues.

[Spanarkel]

I follow the team closely and hate to ask this for fear of on-board ridicule(I probably deserve it for this question), but can someone definitively tell me if Jayson will play more at the 3 or the 4, or a mix of both? Since the presumptive starting lineup consensus(EK posters) before the rash of injuries was Jefferson/Giles/Tatum/Jones/Allen, I am thinking that Tatum is primarily going to play at the 3(cognizant of Duke's "positionless" teams over the K era). Thank you for clarifying this for me! Go Duke!

[whereinthehellami]

Kennard, Kennard, Kennard! He stepped up with the big lights on. Hit some tough shots. Played big time basketball. Quickly becoming my favorite Duke player, I just love watching him play.

Jefferson, 7 TOs, as a post-graduate. Can't have that. I like him to bring the ball up but I don't like him trying to create. I think he has some decent vision but those TOs hurt.

Allen, tough game. Some guys like the big lights, others don't. Allen looked tight and played tight. Not his best game.

Allen and Jefferson, 2 captains, both had bad games. There were a lot of positives last night but Duke needs it's captains to lead by example.

[Troublemaker]

Two first half plays were especially noteworthy. First Amile's active defense on the press that forced a bad pass and turnover at 18:13. Second, Chase's block of Mason and rebound defending the fast break at 16:14. While both Amile and Chase had some questionable plays in the game, these two were positively Graysonesque.

Yeah, I wish GoDuke did "Top 5 Plays" even when Duke loses. Chase's hustle block would've made it, methinks.

Let's see if this GIF works. Can everyone see it? It probably will load slow on the first run through but then subsequently run regular speed thereafter?

https://j.gifs.com/Q1v1w0.gif

[sagegrouse]

I follow the team closely and hate to ask this for fear of on-board ridicule(I probably deserve it for this question), but can someone definitively tell me if Jayson will play more at the 3 or the 4, or a mix of both? Since the presumptive starting lineup consensus(EK posters) before the rash of injuries was Jefferson/Giles/Tatum/Jones/Allen, I am thinking that Tatum is primarily going to play at the 3(cognizant of Duke's "positionless" teams over the K era). Thank you for clarifying this for me! Go Duke!

I dunno, Span, but I would think a Marques/Chase, Amile and Jayson lineup in the front court is more attractive than one where Amile is in the middle and Jayson is the so-called power forward. At least to start the game,'cuz we know how K likes to go to smaller lineups during the game.

[budwom]

Bolden, Amile and Giles sharing the 4-5 positions (which we don't have, of course) seems like the smart move, with Tatum as a true 3....sure, he might
drift over to the 4 on occasion for some patented small ball, but by and large he's SF...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Kennard, Kennard, Kennard! He stepped up with the big lights on. Hit some tough shots. Played big time basketball. Quickly becoming my favorite Duke player, I just love watching him play.

Jefferson, 7 TOs, as a post-graduate. Can't have that. I like him to bring the ball up but I don't like him trying to create. I think he has some decent vision but those TOs hurt.

Allen, tough game. Some guys like the big lights, others don't. Allen looked tight and played tight. Not his best game.

Allen and Jefferson, 2 captains, both had bad games. There were a lot of positives last night but Duke needs it's captains to lead by example.

Well, lots of the Jefferson TOS were offensive fouls it seemed, and those were being called close on both squads.

That, and there were lots of moving pivot feet on both ends of the floor. I liked Amile's game and his passion. Jeter impressed me with his progress over last year. He is going to be a force in the ACC before the end of his career.

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, I wish GoDuke did "Top 5 Plays" even when Duke loses. Chase's hustle block would've made it, methinks.

Here's a Chase blocked shot in a high-leverage situation. Chase and Matt played good team defense on this ball screen. Communicate the screen is coming, guard cuts off half the floor so you know Mason will go right, big man moves his feet to get into rim protecting position. Swat the shot. (Note: after KU inbounds following this block, Matt did a very good job 1-on-1 vs Mason to force a miss [better than he did on final shot of the game]. Then Duke took the ball down the floor and Frank hit the game-tying 3. This was probably our best defensive possession of the 2nd half.)

https://j.gifs.com/mwGw1O.gif

[Billy Dat]

Udoka Azubuike has no business playing 15 minutes against the #1 team in the country.

Hey Tex, I actually think you have a hidden gem in this kid, as much as you can hide someone that huge. Unlike some of the enormous stiffs that Lenny Hamilton runs out for FSU, or Jon Chaney used to love at Temple, Azubuike feels like a game changer when he comes in. Granted, I am sure there will be games where he picks up 3 fouls in 2 minutes, but I liked the way he moved and he seemed to have good game instincts. I think he's gonna be an NBA player.

[Saratoga2]

Well 50% of the recruiting class would have gotten big minutes but were injured. Of course Frank Jackson got quality minutes and if you thought White and Vrankovic were going to play against high major opponents you had way too high of expectations. Those two are practice guys until they are upperclassmen, they're just not good enough yet to warrant minutes against good teams. DeLaurier might have helped but probably not much

Vrank is a soph now and is 7' 275#. He could have matched up with a very raw 7' 280# center that Kansas put on the floor. DeLaurier might well have helped, if only to put a good athlete on the floor with size and fouls to give. We did go with very tired players with a burden of nearly fouling out, so it is hard to believe they were better than the alternative.

[Kfanarmy]

With the 3 freshmen healthy we not only have bigger players to help on the boards but we also have more bodies which means players can fight more for rebounds instead of being fearful of fouling. You guys beat us up on the boards but if we meet again I bet that wouldn't be the case. Rebounding could end up being a strength for Duke, perhaps an overwhelming strength.

There's no telling how well or poorly you guys would shoot from 3 in a hypothetical rematch but I do think you guys would shoot at least a bit worse from 2 if Duke had the 6'8, 6'10, and 6'11, long athletic freshmen in the paint. Our guards might feel much more comfortable defending out on the perimeter and defending against the drive knowing that they have shot blockers to back them up. And again, your second chance points would probably be less than what you got last night.

It's not just that we are adding talent or adding stats (i.e. an additional 25ppg or whatever) by getting these guys back. It's also about the fact that we would be adding depth, size, length, athleticism, and versatility because Tatum can play the 3 or 4, Giles can play the 4 or 5. That changes the team drastically and can have cascading effects in making the other guys better or freeing them up to do what they do best. Think about how subtracting Graham, Josh Jackson, and Carlton Bragg would impact your team. You would still have good, experienced players like Duke currently has but it would change how Kansas would look and play

There's an awful lot to be positive about in the three missing freshmen. Still, I'm a bit cautious. We've all seen how long it can take for freshmen to develop into effective contributors in team defense.

[MChambers]

I follow the team closely and hate to ask this for fear of on-board ridicule(I probably deserve it for this question), but can someone definitively tell me if Jayson will play more at the 3 or the 4, or a mix of both? Since the presumptive starting lineup consensus(EK posters) before the rash of injuries was Jefferson/Giles/Tatum/Jones/Allen, I am thinking that Tatum is primarily going to play at the 3(cognizant of Duke's "positionless" teams over the K era). Thank you for clarifying this for me! Go Duke!

Don't think even Coach K can tell you that definitively at this point in the season. Given Duke's wealth of big men this year, I'd think Tatum will usually be the third biggest player in the game for Duke, but Duke also has a wealth of perimeter talent.

[Steven43]

Hey Tex, I actually think you have a hidden gem in this kid, as much as you can hide someone that huge. Unlike some of the enormous stiffs that Lenny Hamilton runs out for FSU, or Jon Chaney used to love at Temple, Azubuike feels like a game changer when he comes in. Granted, I am sure there will be games where he picks up 3 fouls in 2 minutes, but I liked the way he moved and he seemed to have good game instincts. I think he's gonna be an NBA player.

REALLY wanted Duke to get Udoka Azubuike (what an awesome name!). This guy has the frame and the skills to be an absolute monster. At least he didn't go to Kentucky, though I don't like Kansas a whole lot better. How was he not ranked in the top 5 for national recruits?

[DukieInKansas]

Looks like this thread has been a slow, steady burner. I doubt that any of those kids were awake for more than a minute of the flight home. They looked utterly spent. Grayson had to have lost five pounds during the game, wow was he fighting. K went into his magenta-faced mode and, by Zeus, he nearly pulled it off. Plenty of jayhawk fan posturing and gloating afterwards. They're cute when they nearly pass out from fear. Saw Lance Thomas on the street, he looks great!
Good sign: still a major underpinning of Duke Basketball, make one mistake against us and it snowballs...
All in all, they're growing and learning. Next!

KU fan gave me sympathy for the loss - since it was so close. Pointed out that our 3 highly regarded freshman were on the bench for the game so I was ok with the loss. That attitude seems to puzzle people.

[English]

KU fan gave me sympathy for the loss - since it was so close. Pointed out that our 3 highly regarded freshman were on the bench for the game so I was ok with the loss. That attitude seems to puzzle people.

Based on reading this thread, over half the posters in this neighborhood don't subscribe to this thought either. Puzzling, indeed.

For the record, I'm with you--I'm coming out of this outcome with confidence and encouragement, hoping for better health imminently.

[Kedsy]

I follow the team closely and hate to ask this for fear of on-board ridicule(I probably deserve it for this question), but can someone definitively tell me if Jayson will play more at the 3 or the 4, or a mix of both? Since the presumptive starting lineup consensus(EK posters) before the rash of injuries was Jefferson/Giles/Tatum/Jones/Allen, I am thinking that Tatum is primarily going to play at the 3(cognizant of Duke's "positionless" teams over the K era). Thank you for clarifying this for me! Go Duke!

I agree with MChambers. There's no way to know at this time. Logically, if everyone's healthy and we have Amile, Harry, Marques, and Chase up front, you'd expect Jayson to play primarily at SF and only play PF in a small lineup (Amile/Jayson/Grayson/Luke/Matt or Frank) for a few minutes a game. But in each of the past two seasons we saw Duke go to an undersized PF in the starting lineup (Justise in 2015; Brandon in 2016), and the way Luke is playing right now, it might be hard to relegate him to the bench.

That said, if Jayson plays primarily PF, that would probably mean a 7-man rotation with Harry coming off the bench and both Marques and Chase chasing table scraps in garbage time, neither seeing 10+ minutes in competitive games. To me, that sounds like too much just to get Luke in the starting lineup, assuming Harry is healthy. If Harry remains injured, I could easily see K going with a 7-man rotation with Amile/Jayson/Grayson/Luke/Matt starting, Frank and Marques coming off the bench, and Chase in a 6 to 8 minute role.

So in the end, my guess is that if Harry is healthy we stick with Jayson at SF, but if not we might go small.

[NSDukeFan]

Based on reading this thread, over half the posters in this neighborhood don't subscribe to this thought either. Puzzling, indeed.

For the record, I'm with you--I'm coming out of this outcome with confidence and encouragement, hoping for better health imminently.

That's fair, but did you get a 40-0 tattoo before the season started?

[devildeac]

That's fair, but did you get a 40-0 tattoo before the season started?

I didn't, but I heard that 39-1 is still available. (Or, custom design your own ;):rolleyes:.)

[TexHawk]

REALLY wanted Duke to get Udoka Azubuike (what an awesome name!). This guy has the frame and the skills to be an absolute monster. At least he didn't go to Kentucky, though I don't like Kansas a whole lot better. How was he not ranked in the top 5 for national recruits?

He will be fine, eventually. He will get spot minutes while he learns the game a bit. More of a Cole Aldrich then a Joel Embiid (extreme outlier anyway). He will have some moments this year, but I wouldn't expect him to be an all-conference type until he's a junior. But that's fine, our frontcourt is looking pretty thin after this year. He was an McDAA, ranked behind only Bolden in terms of incoming freshman centers.

My frustration was more because I was looking forward to seeing Lucas go up against Jefferson and Jeter. He's a tough player (and good dude) that the country needs to see more of.

[Skydog]

For all the praise of Jeter - and I agree he has improved and his blocks were awesome plays - his overall stat line was pretty poor: 26 min, 1-4 from the field, 5-10 FT's, 4 reb, 3 to, 3 blks and 4 fouls giving him the worst offensive efficiency rating on the team. That would be fine if he were rebounding well, but he's not. He had 2 rebounds in 22 minutes against Grand Canyon, and now 4 in 26 minutes against Kansas. For a 6'10" guy playing mostly under the basket those are a problem. He really tries but he just gets shoved aside under the basket. And if we could have gotten some rebound in the 2nd half we would have won that game.

[flyingdutchdevil]

For all the praise of Jeter - and I agree he has improved and his blocks were awesome plays - his overall stat line was pretty poor: 26 min, 1-4 from the field, 5-10 FT's, 4 reb, 3 to, 3 blks and 4 fouls giving him the worst offensive efficiency rating on the team. That would be fine if he were rebounding well, but he's not. He had 2 rebounds in 22 minutes against Grand Canyon, and now 4 in 26 minutes against Kansas. For a 6'10" guy playing under the basket mostly those are a problem. He really tries but he just gets shoved aside under the basket.

While I agree, you have to understand that he is, by far, the most improved player on the team. And it's not even close. A lot of us were shocked by Jeter's "non-readiness" (a DBR favorite phrase to imply...well, you get it) last year. This year, he's looking good. Not great, and certainly not a starter with a healthy team. But he has clearly improved.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

For all the praise of Jeter - and I agree he has improved and his blocks were awesome plays - his overall stat line was pretty poor: 26 min, 1-4 from the field, 5-10 FT's, 4 reb, 3 to, 3 blks and 4 fouls giving him the worst offensive efficiency rating on the team. That would be fine if he were rebounding well, but he's not. He had 2 rebounds in 22 minutes against Grand Canyon, and now 4 in 26 minutes against Kansas. For a 6'10" guy playing mostly under the basket those are a problem. He really tries but he just gets shoved aside under the basket. And if we could have gotten some rebound in the 2nd half we would have won that game.

For me, it is just a different look - clearly not reflected in stats. His confidence is so much improved over last year. He doesn't look indecisive with the ball and isn't afraid to chase some blocks.

The free throws are frustrating because if he plays this aggressive, he will go to the line a lot.

[ChillinDuke]

For me, it is just a different look - clearly not reflected in stats. His confidence is so much improved over last year. He doesn't look indecisive with the ball and isn't afraid to chase some blocks.

The free throws are frustrating because if he plays this aggressive, he will go to the line a lot.

Yeah, last year he was a scream-at-your-TV-screen, "No! No! No!" player.

This year he's a "C'mon, Chase!" player.

He's arrived as an asset.

- Chillin

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yeah, last year he was a scream-at-your-TV-screen, "No! No! No!" player.

This year he's a "C'mon, Chase!" player.

He's arrived as an asset.

- Chillin

Exactly. In my book, he has inherited the Plummer moniker of "guy you root for to 'get' it."

[mo.st.dukie]

There's an awful lot to be positive about in the three missing freshmen. Still, I'm a bit cautious. We've all seen how long it can take for freshmen to develop into effective contributors in team defense.

Maybe, although I think that has had more to do with the types of players we have had in the past rather than simply their youth. Outside of Winslow we haven't really gotten guys that are good defenders or guys who have the physical abilities to be good defenders. Defense is a skill and it helps a lot if a player has good length, quickness, mobility, agility, etc. Look at Kentucky, they are almost always a young team but are almost always a very good defensive team because they tend to recruit guys who are good at defense and who have the physical tools. From what little I know and have seen from out freshmen they seem to be better equipped to be good to great defenders, particularly Bolden and Giles.

[Kfanarmy]

Maybe, although I think that has had more to do with the types of players we have had in the past rather than simply their youth. Outside of Winslow we haven't really gotten guys that are good defenders or guys who have the physical abilities to be good defenders. Defense is a skill and it helps a lot if a player has good length, quickness, mobility, agility, etc. Look at Kentucky, they are almost always a young team but are almost always a very good defensive team because they tend to recruit guys who are good at defense and who have the physical tools. From what little I know and have seen from out freshmen they seem to be better equipped to be good to great defenders, particularly Bolden and Giles.

No disagreement here. Still defense is a dance best practiced.

[BD80]

KU fan gave me sympathy for the loss - since it was so close. Pointed out that our 3 highly regarded freshman were on the bench for the game so I was ok with the loss. That attitude seems to puzzle people.

Completely understand. I don't think I've been less upset at a Duke loss in 40 some years.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Completely understand. I don't think I've been less upset at a Duke loss in 40 some years.

I dunno... I wanted to beat Josh Jackson and his attitude pretty badly. But, like many, I wasn't upset by the loss. I just have my least favorite player in college ball figured out.

[slower]

I dunno... I wanted to beat Josh Jackson and his attitude pretty badly. But, like many, I wasn't upset by the loss. I just have my least favorite player in college ball figured out.

Yep. Very easy to root against that guy.

[NashvilleDevil]

I dunno... I wanted to beat Josh Jackson and his attitude pretty badly. But, like many, I wasn't upset by the loss. I just have my least favorite player in college ball figured out.

Agreed on Jackson. Silver lining is he disappeared in the last 10 minutes.

[Newton_14]

I dunno... I wanted to beat Josh Jackson and his attitude pretty badly. But, like many, I wasn't upset by the loss. I just have my least favorite player in college ball figured out.


Yep. Very easy to root against that guy.


Agreed on Jackson. Silver lining is he disappeared in the last 10 minutes.

I'll 4th this sentiment! Gosh he got under my skin. I was texting with Kedsy (who was at the game) about that very thing during the game. Karate chopping the ball out of Amile's hands, mocking the Duke Floor Slap on defense, and just attitude in general. I like Self, but I can't pull for Kansas with that kid on the squad. Can't do it.

Slapping the floor on defense is a Duke thing. Get your own thing, and mock Duke at your own peril. Might not pay for it that night, but penance will come. Just ask Miami.

[slower]

I'll 4th this sentiment! Gosh he got under my skin. I was texting with Kedsy (who was at the game) about that very thing during the game. Karate chopping the ball out of Amile's hands, mocking the Duke Floor Slap on defense, and just attitude in general. I like Self, but I can't pull for Kansas with that kid on the squad. Can't do it.

Slapping the floor on defense is a Duke thing. Get your own thing, and mock Duke at your own peril. Might not pay for it that night, but penance will come. Just ask Miami.

If Harry Giles' mixtapes are any indication, that kind of move by Jackson would not have gone unanswered, in some form. I'll be SO disappointed if Harry doesn't make it back this year. He's got huge swagger, which is always a good thing for Duke. I prefer the "back-in-your-face" attitude to the "turn the other cheek" attitude.

BTW, LOVE Frank Jackson's attitude last night. Very Grayson-like in his exhortations. Seems like it won't be long (if it hasn't happened already) that Frank makes it onto K's "trusted" list.

[DukieTiger]

I'll 4th this sentiment! Gosh he got under my skin. I was texting with Kedsy (who was at the game) about that very thing during the game. Karate chopping the ball out of Amile's hands, mocking the Duke Floor Slap on defense, and just attitude in general. I like Self, but I can't pull for Kansas with that kid on the squad. Can't do it.

Slapping the floor on defense is a Duke thing. Get your own thing, and mock Duke at your own peril. Might not pay for it that night, but penance will come. Just ask Miami.

He's just mad that Duke wouldn't take him and his crappy attitude.

Btw- has anyone ever noticed that guys who felt slighted by Duke in the recruiting process play Duke with a certain edge? I wonder if that happens to too many other schools...

[CDu]

In fairness to Jackson, two of the calls against him were iffy-to-awful. Beyond that, glass houses. One man's Josh Jackson (emotionally/antics-wise, not performance-wise) is another man's Paulus/Allen/Sulaimon/Laettner. It was a hard-fought game between two elite teams on national TV, with awful officiating. Maybe we should lay off bashing what could very easily just be the competitive spirit of a teenager.

[flyingdutchdevil]

In fairness to Jackson, two of the calls against him were iffy-to-awful. Beyond that, glass houses. One man's Josh Jackson (emotionally/antics-wise, not performance-wise) is another man's Paulus/Allen/Sulaimon/Laettner. It was a hard-fought game between two elite teams on national TV, with awful officiating. Maybe we should lay off bashing what could very easily just be the competitive spirit of a teenager.

1) technical foul by aggressively slapping the ball out of Amile's hands.

2) constantly complaining during and after two of those bad fouls. And he didn't stop complaining when he went to the bench!

So, yeah, America's Grayosn Allen is my Josh Jackson. And we're not bashing the kid for being a crappy player or being a crappy person; we're bashing him for having a crappy attitude.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

In fairness to Jackson, two of the calls against him were iffy-to-awful. Beyond that, glass houses. One man's Josh Jackson (emotionally/antics-wise, not performance-wise) is another man's Paulus/Allen/Sulaimon/Laettner. It was a hard-fought game between two elite teams on national TV, with awful officiating. Maybe we should lay off bashing what could very easily just be the competitive spirit of a teenager.

Put me in CDu's camp. The kid has a ton of talent and was clearly frustrated by his inability to play his game on a national stage. He's an 18 year old kid. I'm not gonna hate on him for this.

Of course, if he were a Tar Heel, I'd put him in my own basket(ball) of deplorables.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Put me in CDu's camp. The kid has a ton of talent and was clearly frustrated by his inability to play his game on a national stage. He's an 18 year old kid. I'm not gonna hate on him for this.

Of course, if he were a Tar Heel, I'd put him in my own basket(ball) of deplorables.

I don't think any of us hates the kid. We just don't like him. And I'll actively root against him.

[Ichabod Drain]

Put me in CDu's camp. The kid has a ton of talent and was clearly frustrated by his inability to play his game on a national stage. He's an 18 year old kid. I'm not gonna hate on him for this.

Of course, if he were a Tar Heel, I'd put him in my own basket(ball) of deplorables.

To pick of nits... he's 19. Will be 20 in a couple months. He's seven months older than Brandon Ingram who's in the NBA.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

To pick of nits... he's 19. Will be 20 in a couple months. He's seven months older than Brandon Ingram who's in the NBA.

Ok... thanks?

[CDu]

1) technical foul by aggressively slapping the ball out of Amile's hands.

2) constantly complaining during and after two of those bad fouls. And he didn't stop complaining when he went to the bench!

So, yeah, America's Grayosn Allen is my Josh Jackson. And we're not bashing the kid for being a crappy player or being a crappy person; we're bashing him for having a crappy attitude.

Like I said, glass houses. Folks go out of their way on this board to defend Grayson and his in-game outbursts. Well, Josh Jackson is how it looks to outsiders when Allen trips someone.

Ultimately, these are kids (ranging between 17 and 23 in most cases). Sometimes their emotions get the best of them. At least with Jackson, his outbursts didn't run the risk of hurting anyone else.

No, Jackson didn't get over the bad calls. Is that really reason for folks to be saying they have a new least favorite player in college basketball? That they don't like the kid (whom they have almost assuredly never met)? That seems really over the top to me. We give our players the benefit of the doubt for minor emotional missteps in the heat of the game. We should do the same for others.

[CDu]

To pick of nits... he's 19. Will be 20 in a couple months. He's seven months older than Brandon Ingram who's in the NBA.

Yeah, that doesn't change anything about what I said. I don't think I was substantially more mature at "almost 20" than I was at 18. Certainly not to the point that I wouldn't have a game with petulant outbursts here and there when I felt I was getting screwed on refs' calls.

Heck, I had some of those moments in rec leagues in my early-30s.

[Ichabod Drain]

Yeah, that doesn't change anything about what I said. I don't think I was substantially more mature at "almost 20" than I was at 18. Certainly not to the point that I wouldn't have a game with petulant outbursts here and there when I felt I was getting screwed on refs' calls.

Heck, I had some of those moments in rec leagues in my early-30s.

I don't think it changes your argument either, and I agree with you. I just like facts to be factual.

ETA: I say that out of my somewhat obsessive compulsive attitude when it comes to things involving numbers, not as any slight to anyone posting here.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Like I said, glass houses. Folks go out of their way on this board to defend Grayson and his in-game outbursts. Well, Josh Jackson is how it looks to outsiders when Allen trips someone.

Ultimately, these are kids (ranging between 17 and 23 in most cases). Sometimes their emotions get the best of them. At least with Jackson, his outbursts didn't run the risk of hurting anyone else.

No, Jackson didn't get over the bad calls. Is that really reason for folks to be saying they have a new least favorite player in college basketball? That they don't like the kid (whom they have almost assuredly never met)? That seems really over the top to me. We give our players the benefit of the doubt for minor emotional missteps in the heat of the game. We should do the same for others.

Sure, and I don't try to defend Grayson's attitude to friends who bash his "antics". I do get defensive when they bash his talent, his commitment to the school, or him getting all the calls. I call it how I see it, and I saw Allen intentionally trip two opposing players.

With Jackson, I see a player with fantastic defensive chops, with a better-than-advertised jump shot, and with athleticism that reminds me of leaner Justise Winslow. I also see a player who is immature compared to the vast majority of 18-year olds. And it wasn't just one incident but multiple. In one game.

Did you see Devonte Graham during the game? Part of the reason I adore him is because he got up in Jackson's grill when Jackson had one of his tantrums. Graham was a half second away from slapping his own teammate! It was a thing of beauty, and one of many reasons I like this Kansas team. But Jackson? Nope.

And lastly, there are a ton of posters who don't like UNC players because they put on a light blue jersey. If I'm petty for not liking Jackson because he showed a terrible attitude, then how petty is it to dislike a UNC player because they play for a school 11 miles down the road?

Sports is about emotion. Fans are irrational. I admit that I am an irrational Duke fan. No denial there.

[alteran]

Like I said, glass houses. Folks go out of their way on this board to defend Grayson and his in-game outbursts.

Odd phenomenon, that. It's almost like this is a board populated by Duke fans or something.

[Troublemaker]

A few thoughts, after re-watching the game last night:

Early in the second half, Self abandoned offensive sets and just played spread (1 big, 4 guards) pick-and-roll or 1-on-1. We couldn't guard them for the rest of the game. Besides Mason, Josh Jackson was especially difficult to guard in spread.
Midway thru the second half, Coach K did the same. We abandoned our offensive sets (Horns and Floppy) and just played spread motion with 1 big and 4 guards. Kansas could not guard us the rest of the way.
Duke's comeback therefore had nothing to do with improved defense. What happened the final 8 minutes or so was that when Duke kicked out for an open 3, our players hit their shots and when Kansas kicked out for an open 3, their players missed. That was the reason for the comeback. If this trend had continued, Duke likely would've won in overtime if not for Mason's game-winner.
That said, during the portions of the game when both teams were running offensive sets, both defenses played very well. Duke legitimately played great defense the first 7 minutes of the game, but eventually foul trouble and lack of depth deteriorated our play. And when Duke was running sets early in the 2nd half, Kansas completely snuffed them out, got turnovers and missed shots, and scored in transition.
In a tightly-called game full of foul trouble and high-level guards, it probably makes sense to just spread the opponent out and have the guards go make plays. It was certainly unguardable in this game.
Neither team really adjusted to the officiating. Throughout the second half, there were still foul calls for pushes in the back on rebounds and being too handsy on defense.
Duke uses the shot fake and pass fake very well. I might throw some GIFs on here later.
Besides just plain out-shooting Kansas when both teams went spread, I thought our spread offense looked better with more nuances and off-ball movement than KU's. I just wish we had gone to spread motion a bit earlier because they were snuffing out our sets.

[flyingdutchdevil]

A few thoughts, after re-watching the game last night:

Early in the second half, Self abandoned offensive sets and just played spread (1 big, 4 guards) pick-and-roll or 1-on-1. We couldn't guard them for the rest of the game. Besides Mason, Josh Jackson was especially difficult to guard in spread.
Midway thru the second half, Coach K did the same. We abandoned our offensive sets (Horns and Floppy) and just played spread motion with 1 big and 4 guards. Kansas could not guard us the rest of the way.
Duke's comeback therefore had nothing to do with improved defense. What happened the final 8 minutes or so was that when Duke kicked out for an open 3, our players hit their shots and when Kansas kicked out for an open 3, their players missed. That was the reason for the comeback. If this trend had continued, Duke likely would've won in overtime if not for Mason's game-winner.
That said, during the portions of the game when both teams were running offensive sets, both defenses played very well. Duke legitimately played great defense the first 7 minutes of the game, but eventually foul trouble and lack of depth deteriorated our play. And when Duke was running sets early in the 2nd half, Kansas completely snuffed them out, got turnovers and missed shots, and scored in transition.
In a tightly-called game full of foul trouble and high-level guards, it probably makes sense to just spread the opponent out and have the guards go make plays. It was certainly unguardable in this game.
Neither team really adjusted to the officiating. Throughout the second half, there were still foul calls for pushes in the back on rebounds and being too handsy on defense.
Duke uses the shot fake and pass fake very well. I might throw some GIFs on here later.
Besides just plain out-shooting Kansas when both teams went spread, I thought our spread offense looked better with more nuances and off-ball movement than KU's. I just wish we had gone to spread motion a bit earlier because they were snuffing out our sets.


This is cool insight. Thanks Troublemaker.

Are you suggesting that Self "outcoached" K in the second half? I'm not suggesting that he did, but your write-up makes it sound like that. I don't have an opinion either way, just curious about your take.

[Troublemaker]

This is cool insight. Thanks Troublemaker.

Are you suggesting that Self "outcoached" K in the second half? I'm not suggesting that he did, but your write-up makes it sound like that. I don't have an opinion either way, just curious about your take.

Yes, one could argue that Self reacted to the officiating environment sooner and found an unstoppable offense sooner.

Like I said, though, from a basketball purist's standpoint, I liked Duke's spread motion better. Kansas was not doing motion like this, where Amile times an off-ball screen to free Grayson in the corner as Luke drove and passed to Grayson.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PleasantRapidHarpseal-size_restricted.gif

Kansas' spread offense was more brute-force. High-ball screen for Mason to drive, or Mason takes someone 1-on-1. Still effective and couldn't be stopped, though.

[Newton_14]

Yes, one could argue that Self reacted to the officiating environment sooner and found an unstoppable offense sooner.

Like I said, though, from a basketball purist's standpoint, I liked Duke's spread motion better. Kansas was not doing motion like this, where Amile times an off-ball screen to free Grayson in the corner as Luke drove and passed to Grayson.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PleasantRapidHarpseal-size_restricted.gif

Kansas' spread offense was more brute-force. High-ball screen for Mason to drive, or Mason takes someone 1-on-1. Still effective and couldn't be stopped, though.

If we had gone spread like this way earlier in the game, Grayson would have gotten the 30 that Flying Dutch predicted. Part of the loss is just cause of the nature of college hoops. For a large stretch of the end of 1st half, thru a big portion of the 2nd half Kansas shot incredibly high percentage on any shot they attempted, and we were not knocking down our shots (missed dunk, missed 3's, missed floaters, etc), Luke kept us within shouting distance, but most of the other guys struggled. Until the final 3+ minutes when suddenly our shots start going down and we got the 1 or 2 stops needed to tie it up, given we were getting 3, and one time 4 points at a time on the other end. It didn't take long trading 3 or 4 for 2 or none to catch them. If the game goes 10 seconds longer I like our chances to hit a 3 and win it.