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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 96, Grand Canyon 61 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-12-2016, 07:40 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Devilwin
11-12-2016, 07:45 PM
When they were good, they were very, very good. But very sloppy in the first half. But this team was better than Marist. Much Better.

Bob Green
11-12-2016, 07:45 PM
I am impressed with Frank Jackson. Defense, driving and shooting all looked good tonight.

Troublemaker
11-12-2016, 07:59 PM
Luke DeCock ‏@LukeDeCock (https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock/status/797604249081364480)
Jefferson said he's fine. Pulled his foot out of his shoe while getting stepped on to keep from rolling it, tweaked it a little but OK.

Doria
11-12-2016, 08:02 PM
Luke DeCock ‏@LukeDeCock (https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock/status/797604249081364480)
Jefferson said he's fine. Pulled his foot out of his shoe while getting stepped on to keep from rolling it, tweaked it a little but OK.


I won't lie, that's a relief.

Devilwin
11-12-2016, 08:09 PM
Good. That scared me, like "Oh no, not again!"

gurufrisbee
11-12-2016, 08:09 PM
started slow, but turned it on late in the second half. Should have ran them out in the second half but we made lots of sloppy turnover passes then. I still can't get over how exciting it is to see what Amile brings to this team all over.

Troublemaker
11-12-2016, 08:17 PM
Stephen Wiseman ‏@stevewisemanNC (https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC) 4m4 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/797608230826504192)Durham, NC (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3Abced47a0c99c71d0)
Coach K said unlikely three injured freshman play all week. Duke has Kansas, Penn State and either Cincy or Rhody Tues-Sat-Sun.

NashvilleDevil
11-12-2016, 08:19 PM
Three freshmen will not play any of the games next week according to tweets from the post-game press conference. I know it's only 2 games but I am feeling less and less confident that Bolden or Tatum suit up for Duke this season. I really, really, really hope I'm wrong and overreacting because of Kyrie and Amile's injuries in the recent past.

Ultrarunner
11-12-2016, 08:28 PM
Good to get a win and seriously relieved that Amile is okay. Whew!

When Frank and Matt decided to turn it up on defense, they are a lot of fun to watch.
Chase has grown as a player since last year. He showed flashes at the end of last season. Those are becoming more a steady glow. He's still startlingly young but making really solid progress. Still gets a little lost on D.
Grayson had a Grayson game though he was -3 on floor impacts today. Coach K may have whispered in his ear.
Javin is a fun player to watch. When he learns how to actually play with some skills, look out.
Got to admit, I like Jack White. Hope he sticks around for four years.
Luke - stop making lazy no-look passes into the post, pretty please. My heart isn't getting any younger. Not our best defender but he has a knack for doing the right thing when we need it and seems to score without even making an effort.
Amile. Is in the Ultrarunner Top 5 Pantheon as a leader. What do we need tonight? He delivers.
Vrank - underrated passer.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-12-2016, 08:29 PM
Three freshmen will not play any of the games next week according to tweets from the post-game press conference. I know it's only 2 games but I am feeling less and less confident that Bolden or Tatum suit up for Duke this season. I really, really, really hope I'm wrong and overreacting because of Kyrie and Amile's injuries in the recent past.
Nashville, you've gotta get off this negativity train and start sending out positive juju to the freshmen.

NashvilleDevil
11-12-2016, 08:31 PM
Nashville, you've gotta get off this negativity train and start sending out positive juju to the freshmen.

Kyrie and Amile's injuries have caused me to think the worst possible scenario. I will ease the negative hyperbole.

UrinalCake
11-12-2016, 08:32 PM
Surprised that we used the bench so little; my theory is that K wanted to use this game as a practice for the Kansas game, where he will likely play his starters 35 minutes. So he wants them to get used to playing all game, playing tired, managing fouls, etc. I'm disappointed we won't get to see the three freshmen this week, but trying to stay patient.

MChambers
11-12-2016, 08:37 PM
Three freshmen will not play any of the games next week according to tweets from the post-game press conference. I know it's only 2 games but I am feeling less and less confident that Bolden or Tatum suit up for Duke this season. I really, really, really hope I'm wrong and overreacting because of Kyrie and Amile's injuries in the recent past.

You're wrong and overreacting. Really.

If you want to worry, worry that they won't get back soon enough to learn to play good team defense. But there's no reason to think they won't play this season.

porkpa
11-12-2016, 08:43 PM
There has to be something to the numerable foot injuries we have had beginning with Kyrie.
I find it difficult to believe that it hasn't been done, but have any tests been done on the Nike footwear?
It surely never happened near as often as it has in recent years. I suppose it could be coincidental, but I wonder.

porkpa
11-12-2016, 08:46 PM
Why all the foot injuries beginning with Kyrie? I suppose it could all be coincidental, but I wonder? I'm guessing that tests have been done on the footwear, or have they?

-jk
11-12-2016, 08:54 PM
Yesterday and today, there were many plays reminding me of 2014 where we couldn't manage to switch/hedge/ice to save our lives. In these two games, often, two players followed the ball leaving someone very open.

We need better communication. Talk to each other out there, guys! Work together and choreograph on the fly! (Zoubs was brilliant at it, on both ends of the court. He really saw the complete game.)

-jk

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-12-2016, 08:57 PM
Shout out to the crazies tonight. Loved the "All your fault" chant aimed at the 5 or 6 GCU fans who were screaming bloody murder during FTs and prompted the loudest screaming from the Crazies during opponent FTs that I can ever recall. A+ work there.

DukieTiger
11-12-2016, 09:11 PM
Why all the foot injuries beginning with Kyrie? I suppose it could all be coincidental, but I wonder? I'm guessing that tests have been done on the footwear, or have they?

You're missing an additional two decades of foot injuries, unfortunately. Hurley, Hill, Brand, Boozer, Shav, Paulus...

I thought they looked ok tonight but I'm a little worried the D is going to get exposed against a better team. Of course, that should improve as they get their full stable of players back, but the main need is better communication, as JK mentioned. They were abysmal on ball-screen defense tonight.

Also, Grayson, Luke and Matt are all typically steady with the ball but have made some awful passes and decisions in the first two games. I'm thinking they're adjusting into new roles and will settle down, but it's something to watch.

I get the sense that this team, even as currently composed, has another gear it hasn't hit yet. When things start clicking, and clicking again as they add multiple lottery picks, look out!

As it stands, I hope they perform significantly better the next 8 days in the areas of ball security, (not) fouling, and ball screen defense. If they do, I think they have a decent chance at going 3-0 against HM competition.

Ultrarunner
11-12-2016, 09:43 PM
Anybody know how to set up a "Man of the Match" thread around here?

Seems like not just the players are showing a little rust.

In the meantime, Mr. Allen gets my vote. Double-double and diving for balls on defense.

Saratoga2
11-12-2016, 10:18 PM
You're missing an additional two decades of foot injuries, unfortunately. Hurley, Hill, Brand, Boozer, Shav, Paulus...

I thought they looked ok tonight but I'm a little worried the D is going to get exposed against a better team. Of course, that should improve as they get their full stable of players back, but the main need is better communication, as JK mentioned. They were abysmal on ball-screen defense tonight.

Also, Grayson, Luke and Matt are all typically steady with the ball but have made some awful passes and decisions in the first two games. I'm thinking they're adjusting into new roles and will settle down, but it's something to watch.

I get the sense that this team, even as currently composed, has another gear it hasn't hit yet. When things start clicking, and clicking again as they add multiple lottery picks, look out!

As it stands, I hope they perform significantly better the next 8 days in the areas of ball security, (not) fouling, and ball screen defense. If they do, I think they have a decent chance at going 3-0 against HM competition.

I only got to see the first 10 minutes of the game due to a dinner engagement. The defense I saw during that 10 minutes was particularly bad on ball-screen defense. Chase seemed lost in particular. Since we have to go with him based on our injuries, I hope he can learn from the game film and be ready for a much more difficult test against Kansas.

DukieTiger
11-12-2016, 10:34 PM
I only got to see the first 10 minutes of the game due to a dinner engagement. The defense I saw during that 10 minutes was particularly bad on ball-screen defense. Chase seemed lost in particular. Since we have to go with him based on our injuries, I hope he can learn from the game film and be ready for a much more difficult test against Kansas.

Yeah, Chase was frequently in the middle of it- but there were a few times I saw where the guard didn't stay with the screener when he should have, or ice the screen the way he should have, which left the big in a tough position.

I'd be shocked if they don't make that a point of emphasis between now and Tuesday.

gep
11-12-2016, 10:36 PM
You're missing an additional two decades of foot injuries, unfortunately. Hurley, Hill, Brand, Boozer, Shav, Paulus...

...



Random thoughts...

I heard some "chatter" recently... one person said that all of the slipping and sliding on the court that seems to occur in some games were not only moisture, but the rubber on the soles of the shoes are not "good" like they used to be. Then I started thinking of the cushion, support, etc that the shoe is supposed to provide.

I remember, when I started running in the mid-70's during the marathon craze, it was really stressed the importance of getting the "right" shoe for you. There are many brands, and as much models within a brand. So, Nike basketball shoes... maybe Nike is pushing/marketing a particular shoe model, that may or may not be good for every player? (Note... I don't know which model each player uses, but I would think that they are getting the best for each of them... but still?)

Maybe another brand is better for one player but not the other?

Also, these OAD players today... they're playing a lot of competitive games from young ages. Maybe they are not developing "normally"?

Someone in one of the threads mentioned nutrition and/or diet for correct bone, muscle, and tendon growth. Is there a possible problem here?

I think the AAU circuit was around for years, but maybe the emphasis on OAD, the renewed emphasis AAU, plus the renewed emphasis on the Junior National Teams are stressing these players much more when they are still young and still developing their bodies?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-12-2016, 11:12 PM
Random thoughts...

I heard some "chatter" recently... one person said that all of the slipping and sliding on the court that seems to occur in some games were not only moisture, but the rubber on the soles of the shoes are not "good" like they used to be. Then I started thinking of the cushion, support, etc that the shoe is supposed to provide.

I remember, when I started running in the mid-70's during the marathon craze, it was really stressed the importance of getting the "right" shoe for you. There are many brands, and as much models within a brand. So, Nike basketball shoes... maybe Nike is pushing/marketing a particular shoe model, that may or may not be good for every player? (Note... I don't know which model each player uses, but I would think that they are getting the best for each of them... but still?)

Maybe another brand is better for one player but not the other?

Also, these OAD players today... they're playing a lot of competitive games from young ages. Maybe they are not developing "normally"?

Someone in one of the threads mentioned nutrition and/or diet for correct bone, muscle, and tendon growth. Is there a possible problem here?

I think the AAU circuit was around for years, but maybe the emphasis on OAD, the renewed emphasis AAU, plus the renewed emphasis on the Junior National Teams are stressing these players much more when they are still young and still developing their bodies?

All of these theories have been kicking around this board and other places for nearly 20 years. Short of blaming the coaches for the injuries, there are no "bad" theories, but my operating theory is "basketball is a physical sport, dudes get hurt sometimes."

I do acknowledge that it certainly feels like Duke shoulders an unfair rate of injury, but perhaps that simply shows that we all have just paid very close attention to Duke basketball for a long time.

Newton_14
11-12-2016, 11:51 PM
Three freshmen will not play any of the games next week according to tweets from the post-game press conference. I know it's only 2 games but I am feeling less and less confident that Bolden or Tatum suit up for Duke this season. I really, really, really hope I'm wrong and overreacting because of Kyrie and Amile's injuries in the recent past..

Stay positive. Tatum and Bolden were both in sneakers tonight with no visible limp. I know what K said tonight but still, they can't be that far away from being ready to play or else both would be in boots with or without crutches. That is why I am convinced they will play soon. I expect Giles to start playing in December. I just feel if the injuries were that serious they would be in boots.

As for the game, I won't lie, I was a little disappointed in K tonight and trust me that is very rare. Very very rare. Yes Grand Canyon was much better than Marist, and with our poor shooting to start the game they got a small lead. Big flip. There was no reason to play Grayson 37 minutes, Kennard 36, and Matt 36. And Amile played too much too. We would have won that game easily using our full complement of scholarship players early and often. The last lineup on the floor of Jackson, White, DeLaurier, Vrank, and Matt more than held their own out there. I don't know if Coach just fears losing so badly (which is why is the winningest coach in history) that he can't bring himself to play the guys he doesn't trust and haven't proven themselves or if he wants the guys he does trust to stay out there and right the ship or what. We will likely never know the answer. What we do know is which guys will be in the Newton_14 defined "rotation" and which will be spectators for Kansas, Mich St, and then Conference play and beyond. Which are:
Trusted Players:
Grayson
Amile
Matt
Luke
Frank
Tatum
Giles
Bolden

That friends is your 8 man rotation. Which to me is defined by players that will play in both halves of every single game regardless of opponent or situation, and if all of those guys are healthy, one of Kennard/Jones/Jackson are gonna get squeezed for lions share of minutes which is just very very tough cause all 3 warrant 22-25+ minutes. Maybe no one in that group of 3 gets squeezed and K rolls with all 8 getting 20+ minutes. I hope so.

And please note, I am not at all ripping K here or anything of the such. I agree with his decisions a very high percentage of the time.

Grayson was normal Grayson tonight for the first time which was awesome to see. He did it all. Frank was really good despite the foul trouble, and Amile had a strong game. Kennard I thought had a really good game. He showed some very good/great court vision tonight. Had two very sick passes for assists and almost had a third one. While we may not have a traditional PG, what we have are 4 guards that can take a rebound or an outlet pass and push the ball up the floor with good ball handling skills, and both Amile and Tatum can do the same very effectively. It is so wonderful to watch Amile out there! The Old Man knows all the little tricks of the trade, and he uses a very wide skillset to get points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals on and from the young bucks. Such a blessing and joy to watch! Love that dude!

Chase is better but he still has a lot of growing to do, especially mentally. He just thinks a step slow right now on defense and it really hurts him. That's why K went so small in the first half with Amile at the 5 with the four guards around him. If we are truly going to be without Tatum and Bolden against Kansas, then we are going to need a big effort/performance from Chase. We just cannot roll with small ball for long periods against Kansas. They have too much size I think. I really hope those guys can go. At least Tatum. (Yes I know the whole world is tweeting that neither will play all week).

The stretch from late in the first half thru the first 6-7 minutes or so in the second half was beautiful basketball. We are a good team as is. Not Number 1 by any stretch, but a Top 10 team easily. Like I said, I do think we will have all 3 of the injured freshman by the early December games which will change everything. Then we will see what kind of team this will be and it will most certainly be a better team than the already Top 10 Team we are currently putting on the field. I can't wait. I was so excited to see a potentially dominant Duke team. Patience Daniel Son, Patienc.

Oriole Way
11-12-2016, 11:59 PM
As for the game, I won't lie, I was a little disappointed in K tonight and trust me that is very rare. Very very rare. Yes Grand Canyon was much better than Marist, and with our poor shooting to start the game they got a small lead. Big flip. There was no reason to play Grayson 37 minutes, Kennard 36, and Matt 36. And Amile played too much too. We would have won that game easily using our full complement of scholarship players early and often.

They'll all be playing at least that many minutes Tuesday night against Kansas, so I have no problem with K giving them big minutes tonight to get them ready. And I'm usually a proponent of K using his bench more than he usually does in games like tonight's.

Newton_14
11-13-2016, 12:03 AM
Surprised that we used the bench so little; my theory is that K wanted to use this game as a practice for the Kansas game, where he will likely play his starters 35 minutes. So he wants them to get used to playing all game, playing tired, managing fouls, etc. I'm disappointed we won't get to see the three freshmen this week, but trying to stay patient.

You know, I did not think of this, so I take back what I said in my original post. I think you may be right. He wanted the heavy minutes from the Big Four of Amile/Matt/Grayson/Kennard to condition them to play those kind of minutes Tuesday. Makes sense. So I take back the criticism and apologize to the basketball gods and beg for their mercy.:cool: I still think I am right about the rotation if all get healthy though.

Isaac Sours
11-13-2016, 02:35 AM
Anyone get the Fox Florida telecast and notice the camera work was sub-par? I remember Jones and Jackson each took a shot that the cameraman simply failed to catch. Basketball isn't that hard to follow, Fox, come on...

diablesseblu
11-13-2016, 06:32 AM
Anyone get the Fox Florida telecast and notice the camera work was sub-par? I remember Jones and Jackson each took a shot that the cameraman simply failed to catch. Basketball isn't that hard to follow, Fox, come on...

That's nothing new to me. The technical qualities of their broadcasts are always sub par.

Saratoga2
11-13-2016, 07:31 AM
Random thoughts...

I heard some "chatter" recently... one person said that all of the slipping and sliding on the court that seems to occur in some games were not only moisture, but the rubber on the soles of the shoes are not "good" like they used to be. Then I started thinking of the cushion, support, etc that the shoe is supposed to provide.

I remember, when I started running in the mid-70's during the marathon craze, it was really stressed the importance of getting the "right" shoe for you. There are many brands, and as much models within a brand. So, Nike basketball shoes... maybe Nike is pushing/marketing a particular shoe model, that may or may not be good for every player? (Note... I don't know which model each player uses, but I would think that they are getting the best for each of them... but still?)

Maybe another brand is better for one player but not the other?

Also, these OAD players today... they're playing a lot of competitive games from young ages. Maybe they are not developing "normally"?

Someone in one of the threads mentioned nutrition and/or diet for correct bone, muscle, and tendon growth. Is there a possible problem here?

I think the AAU circuit was around for years, but maybe the emphasis on OAD, the renewed emphasis AAU, plus the renewed emphasis on the Junior National Teams are stressing these players much more when they are still young and still developing their bodies?

I know Giles problem is a lingering knee issue as he heals following a clean out. I have never heard what the real problem is with either Tatum or Bolden. How do you know it is a foot problem, as coach K has not been more explicit than lower leg issue? I know coach K does not give direct medical information on players and probably can't, so it could be a pulled muscle or something other than a foot injury.

DukieTiger
11-13-2016, 07:47 AM
They'll all be playing at least that many minutes Tuesday night against Kansas, so I have no problem with K giving them big minutes tonight to get them ready. And I'm usually a proponent of K using his bench more than he usually does in games like tonight's.

I get this, but 2 of Duke's current top 6 are averaging more than 5 fouls per 40 minutes. It'd be nice if K trusted Javin, Jack or Vrank enough to give them some decent run in a game Duke won by 35.

I'd be willing to bet that Duke is actually forced to play a deeper rotation in the next 3 games (or at least against Kansas) than they did last night.

UrinalCake
11-13-2016, 08:06 AM
You know, I did not think of this, so I take back what I said in my original post. I think you may be right. He wanted the heavy minutes from the Big Four of Amile/Matt/Grayson/Kennard to condition them to play those kind of minutes Tuesday. Makes sense. So I take back the criticism and apologize to the basketball gods and beg for their mercy.:cool: I still think I am right about the rotation if all get healthy though.

Thanks for the vote of confidence 8-). It's tough because K has probably been telling his team the exact opposite all summer - go hard all the time, don't worry about fatigue, we have plenty of depth so we can press and play aggressive D and sub whenever we need to. Now we're down three guys and have to totally change our strategy to having guys play big minutes again. Fortunately our veterans are accustomed to it. With all of the injuries, I feel like this season is giving new meaning to the term "survive and advance."

lotusland
11-13-2016, 09:16 AM
I've enjoyed the passing from Duke so far. While there have definitely been some ill advised passes from Grayson, Luke and Frank, I like what I've seen overall. Grayson draws so much attention on his drives that someone is always open and he's done a great job of finding them without allowing his offense to suffer. There's always a sense that we know what we'll get from the seniors but both Amile and Matt are showing improved play as well as great leadership. No Seniors next year if Grayson leaves (Obi?) as expected so I'm going enjoy having 2 this year. We have plenty of scoring so Bolden is the most important of our 3 missing freshman IMO. Of course we have not idea what Giles will bring but Tatum doesn't look like and upgrade on the defensive end to me and he's a bit of a black hole on offense. We definitely don't need volume scorers on this team so hopefully he can learn to play within the offense.

slower
11-13-2016, 09:29 AM
We definitely don't need volume scorers on this team so hopefully he can learn to play within the offense.

We also haven't played anybody yet that would require having Tatum as another option in crucial moments. He'll be needed.

53n206
11-13-2016, 10:33 AM
"Hold your powder", "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes". This is what Coach K is doing with the freshmen on the bench. Absolutely no sense in exposing ithem to the risk of further injury until they are needed. Anyway, you know what I mean.

jimsumner
11-13-2016, 11:02 AM
I know Giles problem is a lingering knee issue as he heals following a clean out. I have never heard what the real problem is with either Tatum or Bolden. How do you know it is a foot problem, as coach K has not been more explicit than lower leg issue? I know coach K does not give direct medical information on players and probably can't, so it could be a pulled muscle or something other than a foot injury.

Tatum has a sprained foot. That has never been hidden.

But when the head coach describes Bolden's injury as mysterious, well, yes, that is a mystery.

evrim
11-13-2016, 04:50 PM
The reasoning is simple. Tighten down the rotation for the big Kansas game and get them used to playing with each other and try different scenarios, plays etc. Due to injuries, there were a ton of different line ups tried, but this was clearly one for getting ready for Kansas. After Kansas, I expect more minutes for some of the players again.

dukelifer
11-13-2016, 05:57 PM
We also haven't played anybody yet that would require having Tatum as another option in crucial moments. He'll be needed.

Watching UNC play- Duke would have their hands full with them without Tatum. This Duke team is going to have little margin for error against experienced top 15 teams.

Ultrarunner
11-13-2016, 06:56 PM
Watching UNC play- Duke would have their hands full with them without Tatum. This Duke team is going to have little margin for error against experienced top 15 teams.

Well, perhaps. I suspect that UNC would have their hands full trying to slow Grayson and Frank in return. I prefer to defer my worrying until a later in the season, should it be needed.

weezie
11-13-2016, 07:00 PM
Wasn't able to attend the game and didn't get a broadcast but one small question: is Thunder Dan still as handsome as he was during his playing days?

Son-of-weezie, who took our seats, said he thinks Dan is about three custom Italian suits away from a big time program coaching gig.

Steven43
11-14-2016, 02:29 AM
I know it's only 2 games but I am feeling less and less confident that Bolden or Tatum suit up for Duke this season. I really, really, really hope I'm wrong and overreacting because of Kyrie and Amile's injuries in the recent past.
Tell me you're joking. You think because a player misses a week or two or even three or more at the beginning of the season that means they're not going to play for the entire five months? Based on what? This is silly and pointless speculation. Not to mention unjustifiably pessimistic.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-14-2016, 06:15 AM
Tell me you're joking. You think because a player misses a week or two or even three or more at the beginning of the season that means they're not going to play for the entire five months? Based on what? This is silly and pointless speculation. Not to mention unjustifiably pessimistic.
If you've read the whole thread, you know that Nashville has been read the riot act already -- starting with me shortly after the initial post. No sense in piling on two days after the fact. I think it's better to move on, especially since Nashville acknowledged the opportunity to be more positive.

flyingdutchdevil
11-14-2016, 08:52 AM
1) Grayson is back! Well, Grayson never left, IMO. A couple mediocre games (one where he scored 16), but Grayson looks like the Grayson of old!

2) Matt Jones couldn't hit the backside of a barn, but he did a lot of Matt Jones-type things. And, he was a great passer during this game. He and Amile have a lot of great chemistry.

3) I love Luke Kennard on this team. I feel that he can either be a high volume shooter and be effective (exhibitions and Marist) or play off the ball and be very effective (like yesterday). Consider me a huge Luke fan. Now he just needs to focus on his defense, which isn't ideal.

4) I'm still not sold on Chase Jeter. He's clearly improved, but is he ready for prime time? I don't know, but I'm not optimistic... We'll see tomorrow.

rsvman
11-14-2016, 09:56 AM
1) Grayson is back! Well, Grayson never left, IMO. A couple mediocre games (one where he scored 16), but Grayson looks like the Grayson of old!

2) Matt Jones couldn't hit the backside of a barn, but he did a lot of Matt Jones-type things. And, he was a great passer during this game. He and Amile have a lot of great chemistry.

3) I love Luke Kennard on this team. I feel that he can either be a high volume shooter and be effective (exhibitions and Marist) or play off the ball and be very effective (like yesterday). Consider me a huge Luke fan. Now he just needs to focus on his defense, which isn't ideal.

4) I'm still not sold on Chase Jeter. He's clearly improved, but is he ready for prime time? I don't know, but I'm not optimistic... We'll see tomorrow.


SMH at you city slickers............the saying is "couldn't hit the BROAD SIDE of a barn," not couldn't hit the back side. Which makes sense, if you think about it, since the back side of the barn is generally narrower and considerably smaller than its broad side. Therefore, it's harder to hit the back side of the barn than to hit its broad side. So, for complete ineptitude in aiming any sort of object, basketballs included, we use the term "broad side." /rant

And by the way, I agree with you that in this particular game, Matt Jones couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

slower
11-14-2016, 10:04 AM
1) Grayson is back! Well, Grayson never left, IMO. A couple mediocre games (one where he scored 16), but Grayson looks like the Grayson of old!

2) Matt Jones couldn't hit the backside of a barn, but he did a lot of Matt Jones-type things. And, he was a great passer during this game. He and Amile have a lot of great chemistry.

3) I love Luke Kennard on this team. I feel that he can either be a high volume shooter and be effective (exhibitions and Marist) or play off the ball and be very effective (like yesterday). Consider me a huge Luke fan. Now he just needs to focus on his defense, which isn't ideal.

4) I'm still not sold on Chase Jeter. He's clearly improved, but is he ready for prime time? I don't know, but I'm not optimistic... We'll see tomorrow.

Finally watched the whole game.

1. Yep. Grayson is Grayson. Enough said.
2. I'm actually more positive about Matt than I have been, historically. His defense WILL be crucial.
3. Luke is an offensive savant. No worries there. He'll get beat by quicker players, but isn't that one of our issues every year?
4. Jeter is just not ready for prime time. Sorry.

5. Amile looks fantastic.
6. As I've been saying, almost since Day 1, Frank Jackson is for real.
7. If and when the 3 freshmen return, we should be in good shape. Until then , there may be bumps in the road. Kansas feels like a loss right now.

Indoor66
11-14-2016, 10:56 AM
Finally watched the whole game.

1. Yep. Grayson is Grayson. Enough said.
2. I'm actually more positive about Matt than I have been, historically. His defense WILL be crucial.
3. Luke is an offensive savant. No worries there. He'll get beat by quicker players, but isn't that one of our issues every year?
4. Jeter is just not ready for prime time. Sorry.

5. Amile looks fantastic.
6. As I've been saying, almost since Day 1, Frank Jackson is for real.
7. If and when the 3 freshmen return, we should be in good shape. Until then , there may be bumps in the road. Kansas feels like a loss right now.

Thanks for the definitive word on the subject.

jimsumner
11-14-2016, 11:26 AM
SMH at you city slickers.......the saying is "couldn't hit the BROAD SIDE of a barn," not couldn't hit the back side. Which makes sense, if you think about it, since the back side of the barn is generally narrower and considerably smaller than its broad side. Therefore, it's harder to hit the back side of the barn than to hit its broad side. So, for complete ineptitude in aiming any sort of object, basketballs included, we use the term "broad side." /rant

And by the way, I agree with you that in this particular game, Matt Jones couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

At least he didn't say "road to hoe." :)

devildeac
11-14-2016, 11:27 AM
At least he didn't say "road to hoe." :)

Literally. ;)

Neals384
11-14-2016, 11:27 AM
Chase is better but he still has a lot of growing to do, especially mentally. He just thinks a step slow right now on defense and it really hurts him. That's why K went so small in the first half with Amile at the 5 with the four guards around him. If we are truly going to be without Tatum and Bolden against Kansas, then we are going to need a big effort/performance from Chase. We just cannot roll with small ball for long periods against Kansas. They have too much size I think. I really hope those guys can go. At least Tatum. (Yes I know the whole world is tweeting that neither will play all week).


The numbers don't back this up. Amile plus the four guards was +17 in 13 1/2 minutes. But Chase plus the four guards was +9 in 5 1/2 minutes.

slower
11-14-2016, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the definitive word on the subject.

Just my opinion. Everybody has one. They tend to change over time.

I was not a big Matt Jones supporter in previous seasons. Have revised my opinion this year. Have been a fan of Luke and Frank since early-career results filtered in.

I apologize if my tone/style is offensive - that's just how I write. Not intending to be bombastic.

Merlindevildog91
11-14-2016, 05:03 PM
SMH at you city slickers.......the saying is "couldn't hit the BROAD SIDE of a barn," not couldn't hit the back side. Which makes sense, if you think about it, since the back side of the barn is generally narrower and considerably smaller than its broad side. Therefore, it's harder to hit the back side of the barn than to hit its broad side. So, for complete ineptitude in aiming any sort of object, basketballs included, we use the term "broad side." /rant

And by the way, I agree with you that in this particular game, Matt Jones couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

What part of Chesapeake do you live in, to be familiar with barns? You can't be in Bob Green's high-dollar Western Branch. More like the Deep Creek of my roots (Granddad had a PACKING SHED, not a barn), or Great Bridge.

I agree too. In this game, Matt couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, the back side of a barn, or any other side of a barn. But he will play because of his defense and hustle.

Troublemaker
11-14-2016, 05:17 PM
Thanks for the definitive word on the subject.

We don't need people sprinkling "IMOs" all over the place in their posts; it should just be assumed that everyone is giving an opinion. Also, I didn't find slower's post to be any more strident than the typical post here.

(I do often make use of the "IMO" out of habit, though).

Steven43
11-14-2016, 05:34 PM
If you've read the whole thread, you know that Nashville has been read the riot act already -- starting with me shortly after the initial post. No sense in piling on two days after the fact. I think it's better to move on, especially since Nashville acknowledged the opportunity to be more positive.


First of all, I don't always read every single comment that has been made in an entire thread before responding to a particularly comment that I come across.

Second, Nashville is a big boy/girl and can likely handle very mild criticism just fine without you rushing to the defense.

rsvman
11-14-2016, 05:37 PM
What part of Chesapeake do you live in, to be familiar with barns? You can't be in Bob Green's high-dollar Western Branch. More like the Deep Creek of my roots (Granddad had a PACKING SHED, not a barn), or Great Bridge.

I agree too. In this game, Matt couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, the back side of a barn, or any other side of a barn. But he will play because of his defense and hustle.

Hickory. 'Nuff said. :cool:

NashvilleDevil
11-14-2016, 07:00 PM
First of all, I don't always read every single comment that has been made in an entire thread before responding to a particularly comment that I come across.

Second, Nashville is a big boy/girl and can likely handle very mild criticism just fine without you rushing to the defense.

6'3 212

NM Duke Fan
11-14-2016, 07:36 PM
6'3 212

I have stayed out of this thread, until now. Yikes, remind me not to insult you, that indeed is big ... especially if you are a girl!

Sorry, not being serious, just had to try to interject some humor into what is becoming a somewhat ":unusual" thread. ...

Steven43
11-14-2016, 07:38 PM
6'3 212

Like I said.....

OldPhiKap
11-14-2016, 07:46 PM
6'3 212

In cinder blocks, please?

Steven43
11-14-2016, 08:00 PM
Finally watched the whole game.

1. Yep. Grayson is Grayson. Enough said.
2. I'm actually more positive about Matt than I have been, historically. His defense WILL be crucial.
3. Luke is an offensive savant. No worries there. He'll get beat by quicker players, but isn't that one of our issues every year?
4. Jeter is just not ready for prime time. Sorry.

5. Amile looks fantastic.
6. As I've been saying, almost since Day 1, Frank Jackson is for real.
7. If and when the 3 freshmen return, we should be in good shape. Until then , there may be bumps in the road. Kansas feels like a loss right now.

Yes, Grayson is still Grayt!

Have not ever been a huge fan of Matt's game, though I love his toughness. His shooting
form bothers me A LOT. I wish he would limit his 3-point shots to a couple per game. Haven't given up on Matt, though. Not by a long shot.

Luke is special. I still think he's going to be one of the all-time great Duke players when his four years are completed.

Sadly, Jeter is still struggling. He reminds me of Marshall Plumlee during his first two years, but with less natural ability. Not every McDonald's All-American turns out to be a good college player. We shall see.

And yes, not looking good for the Kansas game. Not at all worried about that, though. Pretty much a meaningless game in the big scheme of things.

NSDukeFan
11-14-2016, 08:14 PM
Yes, Grayson is still Grayt!

Have not ever been a huge fan of Matt's game, though I love his toughness. His shooting
form bothers me A LOT. I wish he would limit his 3-point shots to a couple per game. Haven't given up on Matt, though. Not by a long shot.

Luke is special. I still think he's going to be one of the all-time great Duke players when his four years are completed.

Sadly, Jeter is still struggling. He reminds me of Marshall Plumlee during his first two years, but with less natural ability. Not every McDonald's All-American turns out to be a good college player. We shall see.

And yes, not looking good for the Kansas game. Not at all worried about that, though. Pretty much a meaningless game in the big scheme of things.
I am a big Matt fan and if he is going to shoot 40% on 3s and keep great floor spacing, he can shoot them however he wants. I had a coach tell me there are two important parts about shooting: you have to be able to get the shot off and you have to be able to hit it. If you don't like his form because it is slow and reduces his chances, that is a reasonable concern, but otherwise it shouldn't be if he's making them.
I agree completely that Luke has a chance to be an all-time great. He is fun to watch .
I am pretty excited about this Kansas game. It certainly is not as important as who gets elected president, but for a team that I am not expecting to lose many games, one this early against a pre-season top 5 team that is close to a toss up is pretty huge, IMO.

jimsumner
11-14-2016, 09:11 PM
Yes, Grayson is still Grayt!


I wish he would limit his 3-point shots to a couple per game. Haven't given up on Matt, though. Not by a long shot.

[/B].

Is that a pun? :)

Newton_14
11-14-2016, 09:15 PM
6'3 212

Well just how big a boy are you?:)

Signed,

RDM

Newton_14
11-14-2016, 09:17 PM
Yes, Grayson is still Grayt!

Have not ever been a huge fan of Matt's game, though I love his toughness. His shooting
form bothers me A LOT. I wish he would limit his 3-point shots to a couple per game. Haven't given up on Matt, though. Not by a long shot.

Luke is special. I still think he's going to be one of the all-time great Duke players when his four years are completed.

Sadly, Jeter is still struggling. He reminds me of Marshall Plumlee during his first two years, but with less natural ability. Not every McDonald's All-American turns out to be a good college player. We shall see.

And yes, not looking good for the Kansas game. Not at all worried about that, though. Pretty much a meaningless game in the big scheme of things.

You want our best 3 Point Shooter to take no more than a couple a game? You want to spot the other team 10 points a game as well to make it even more fair?

devildeac
11-14-2016, 10:11 PM
In cinder blocks, please?

US, UK, NZ or Canadian?

Metric or non-metric?

"Concrete blocks may be produced with hollow centers (cores) to reduce weight or improve insulation. The use of blockwork allows structures to be built in the traditional masonry style with layers (or courses) of staggered blocks. Blocks come in many sizes. In the US, the most common nominal size is 16 in × 8 in × 8 in (410 mm × 200 mm × 200 mm); the block measures a 3/8 in shorter, allowing for mortar joints. In Ireland and the UK, blocks are usually 440 mm × 215 mm × 100 mm (17.3 in × 8.5 in × 3.9 in) excluding mortar joints. In New Zealand and Canada, blocks are usually 390 mm × 190 mm × 190 mm (15.4 in × 7.5 in × 7.5 in) excluding mortar joints."

Steven43
11-15-2016, 09:52 AM
You want our best 3 Point Shooter to take no more than a couple a game? You want to spot the other team 10 points a game as well to make it even more fair?
You honestly believe that were Matt, Grayson, Luke (and any other Duke guard or small forward) somehow able to be guarded precisely the same way by the same players that Matt would end up with the highest three-point shooting percentage? Matt gets open shot after open shot after open shot precisely because teams fear his shooting less than they do other players on the team. The idea that one can simply look at shooting percentage in a vacuum and use that to determine who is the best shooter could not be more wrong.

Ultrarunner
11-15-2016, 10:06 AM
You honestly believe that were Matt, Grayson, Luke (and any other Duke guard or small forward) somehow able to be guarded precisely the same way by the same players that Matt would end up with the highest three-point shooting percentage? Matt gets open shot after open shot after open shot precisely because teams fear his shooting less than they do other players on the team. The idea that one can simply look at shooting percentage in a vacuum and use that to determine who is the best shooter could not be more wrong.

I understand the point that you are making, but discounting the role that the individual player fulfills within the system leads to an equally skewed perspective. Matt is extremely effective at what he does (when on two good ankles) and a weapon when fit properly into the system.

Steven43
11-15-2016, 10:10 AM
I understand the point that you are making, but discounting the role that the individual player fulfills within the system leads to an equally skewed perspective. Matt is extremely effective at what he does (when on two good ankles) and a weapon when fit properly into the system.

Agree.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-15-2016, 12:42 PM
I understand the point that you are making, but discounting the role that the individual player fulfills within the system leads to an equally skewed perspective. Matt is extremely effective at what he does (when on two good ankles) and a weapon when fit properly into the system.
Yes. Everyone needs a "Steve Kerr" -- who wouldn't want that type of sharpshooter on their team? Doesn't matter as much how they get their attempts, as long as they are good attempts within the framework of the team and they turn out a strong 3P% on those attempts. Matt was 42% last year. He looked frustrated the other day (just about ripped off his undershirt midway through the game after missing several attempts in a row) but it's only been two games. He'll get his touch back. I was also excited to see him making legit powerful drives to the basket in the first two games. That will only help him and the team if he becomes a legit threat to score off the drive.

Newton_14
11-15-2016, 12:46 PM
You honestly believe that were Matt, Grayson, Luke (and any other Duke guard or small forward) somehow able to be guarded precisely the same way by the same players that Matt would end up with the highest three-point shooting percentage? Matt gets open shot after open shot after open shot precisely because teams fear his shooting less than they do other players on the team. The idea that one can simply look at shooting percentage in a vacuum and use that to determine who is the best shooter could not be more wrong.

Wasn't talking about Matt. You said you wished Grayson would only attempt two 3pointers per game. I said Grayson is our best 3point shooter and I think it insane one would want to limit him to two attempts per game.