The All-Badass Team

[slower]

Spurred on by another thread, who's your starting five? I'll take (kind of by position):

Laettner
Singler
Winslow
Dahntay Jones
Tyler Thornton

Roll out the ball - let the games begin! :p


"You talkin' to me?"

Edit: I know, I know - no Nate! (hangs head in shame) Plus, I never saw Heyman play.

[August West]

Gotta have the king of badass. Nate James. AW.

[UrinalCake]

Nate James
Roshown McLeod
Carmen Wallace
JJ Redick

[Clocktower]

Gene Banks says hello.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Nate James
Roshown McLeod
Carmen Wallace
JJ Redick

I love your other three but I don't know about Carmen as a badass - I was a huge fan of his but he didn't really have a "don't mess with me" attitude.

I would add Tyus Stones to the list. And Jay Heaps as our deep bench guy.

[BLPOG]

It sure seems to me like Art Heyman should be on the list.

[sagegrouse]

Art Heyman (Who else kneed the UNC coach in the private areas in a basketball game -- plus "duked" it out with Larry Brown, to boot?)
Tinkerbell
Danny Meagher
Nate James
Carlos Boozer

Honorable mention to TT and Dahntay.

[Devilwin]

Christian Laettner
Greg Newton
Elton Brand
Gerald Henderson
Bobby Hurley

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Nate James is the captain. Period. I'll let him choose his own team! LGD GTHc!

[Spanarkel]

Kenny Dennard, for sure.

[Clocktower]

Second/third team is where it starts to get fun, with names like Christenson, Domzalski, Tissaw, maybe Brian Davis or Wojo on a good day vs. the Heels.

[Devilwin]

Can't believe I left off Heyman! The ultimate badass..

[mattman91]

Nate James (has to be)
Nick Horvath (heard he made K cry in a practice once)
Andre Buckner (for getting in Brad Daugherty's face)
Patrick Davidson (legendary badass)
Christian Laettner

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Nate James is the captain. Period. I'll let him choose his own team! LGD GTHc!
Mr. Hurley begs to differ...

[devildeac]

Nate James (has to be)
Nick Horvath (heard he made K cry in a practice once)
Andre Buckner (for getting in Brad Daugherty's face)
Patrick Davidson (legendary badass)
Christian Laettner

Matt Doherty (D'oh) ;)

P. Davidson made Chuck Norris cry. Good choice there.

[mattman91]

Matt Doherty (D'oh) ;)

P. Davidson made Chuck Norris cry. Good choice there.

Whatever....they both sucked.

:o

[flyingdutchdevil]

Thanks for setting up.

Nate James: Never saw him play, but I'll take DBR's word for it.
Justise Winslow: Yah, you're gonna lose
JJ Redick: Could back up everything he said with what he did
Christian Laettner: Like Redick, but with plenty of silverware
Gerald Henderson: You don't touch Nolan Smith

[rasputin]

Thanks for setting up.

Nate James: Never saw him play, but I'll take DBR's word for it.
Justise Winslow: Yah, you're gonna lose
JJ Redick: Could back up everything he said with what he did
Christian Laettner: Like Redick, but with plenty of silverware
Gerald Henderson: You don't touch Nolan Smith

Art Heyman
Gene Banks
Nate James
Christian Laettner
Justise Winslow

[devildeac]

Art Heyman
Gene Banks
Nate James
Christian Laettner
Justise Winslow

Poultry supper. Or some phrase like that. ;)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My team only needs Nate James. Roll that ball out.

[weezie]

Well, now, Shelden always collected the rent?!

[ipatent]

Art Heyman
Kenny Dennard
Danny Meagher
Danny Ferry (he and Tom Sheehy had some legendary back and forths)
Grayson Allen

[OldPhiKap]

Art Heyman
Kenny Dennard
Danny Meagher
Danny Ferry (he and Tom Sheehy had some legendary back and forths)
Grayson Allen

I was going to make a list but see someone already made it. Props.

[Turk]

I'll go with "Thunder" Dan Meagher and Nate James as co-captains. Add Laettner and Art Heyman. Hurley can round out the starting 5.

[ipatent]

I'll throw the post-weighlifting Jay Bilas in as a sixth man.

[sagegrouse]

I'll throw the post-weighlifting Jay Bilas in as a sixth man.

Perhaps you are thinking of the movie version (https://www.google.com/search?q=jay+bilas+movie+photo&tbm=isch&imgil=CKAK-5cQc-7npM%253A%253Bt5okoYh8r6216M%253Bhttps%25253A%2525 2F%25252Ftwitter.com%25252Fjaybilas%25252Fstatus%2 5252F621636141540896768&source=iu&pf=m&fir=CKAK-5cQc-7npM%253A%252Ct5okoYh8r6216M%252C_&usg=__LizCUc7ZcJ805XWyVhJCdDajbmw%3D&biw=1259&bih=581&ved=0ahUKEwjItsP1gY7QAhVIiFQKHTQ3CKcQyjcIOg&ei=Gu0bWMjBO8iQ0gK07qC4Cg#imgrc=CKAK-5cQc-7npM%3A).

[OZ]

It sure seems to me like Art Heyman should be on the list.

At the top!

[Tripping William]

Jay Heaps deserves an Honorable Mention. I mean, if cross-checking Jeff McInnis into the sideboards doesn't merit a shoutout, I'm not quite sure what would.

[jimsumner]

Art Heyman
David Henderson
Dan Meagher
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner

Sixth man-Nate James

David Henderson waited way too long to make it into the discussion.

IMO.

[cato]

Art Heyman
David Henderson
Dan Meagher
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner

Sixth man-Nate James

David Henderson waited way too long to make it into the discussion.

IMO.

Hmm. Can we sub out Ferry for Los?

Not many people can sport a polar bear tattoo and make the polar bear look just a tad soft.

[slower]

Jay Heaps deserves an Honorable Mention. I mean, if cross-checking Jeff McInnis into the sideboards doesn't merit a shoutout, I'm not quite sure what would.

Yes!! That's almost as good as kicking Brice Johnson in the nuts. Actually, it may be better - McInnis was one of THE most despicable jerks to wear the toilet-water blue.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

So many choices! No WONDER everybody loves to hate us all!
Love, Ima

[ipatent]

I guess forwards have a natural advantage over guards as to the degree of "badass," but we've had plenty of spunky guards as well. Separate thread.

[Lar77]

Art Heyman has to be at the top of the list.
Christian Laettner would beat you anyway he could.
Patrick Davidson - but this list may be below him.
Nate James, because he is.
Dahntay Jones. Still bringing it.

Honorable Mention:

Kyle Singler. Just a winner.

[superdave]

Art Heyman
Gene Banks
Nate James
Christian Laettner
Justise Winslow

I was going to post this exact list. Well done!

[OldPhiKap]

I signed on to a list before with Danny Ferry. Danny is sometimes the forgotten man, but he was Christian Laettner before Christian got here. Tough, coach's son who knew how to get all the little calls and knew the little tricks; one of the first "stretch big men" in the three-point era; had that cover shot face. Danny sorta got overshadowed by Christian's later arrival, and his pro career never took off after skipping the US for Italy.

If there wasn't an "I hate Christian Laettner," there would have been an "I hate Danny Ferry."

[TruBlu]

Just wanted to mention that Gene Banks is making the list for a lot of folks despite having the nickname "Tinkerbell".

[Indoor66]

Just wanted to mention that Gene Banks is making the list for a lot of folks despite having the nickname "Tinkerbell".

Tinkerbell referred to his ability to fly, I believe.

[Native]

Art Heyman
Gene Banks
Nate James
Christian Laettner
Justise Winslow

I'll weigh in from the younger crowd and say that maaaaaybe swap Singler in somewhere there. But aside from that, this looks like the best answer to me.

Patrick Davidson has to be in there somewhere as well.

[Edouble]

Christian Laettner
Greg Newton
Elton Brand
Gerald Henderson
Bobby Hurley

You're kidding right?

Newton was softer than a throw pillow. He was sent to Coach K's dog house, in part, for being such a softy.

[sagegrouse]

You're kidding right?

Newton was softer than a throw pillow. He was sent to Coach K's dog house, in part, for being such a softy.

Agree. Let's see.... Newton more of badass than Carlos Boozer? Not.

[Billy Dat]

I feel like the standard for badass that started in the other thread had mostly to do with guys who would get in the face of anyone trying to start getting chippy and, in turn, getting chippy with the other team in return for cheap shots, etc.

Heyman fightimg the entire UNC team and punching Dick McGuire in the joint is the gold standard. As such, suprised no mention of Andre Buckner. D'oh has Buckner prints on his sternum.

Matt Christiansen's ref accosting post Indiana Sweet 16 in 2002 also ranks high.

Daniel Ewing was sneakily feisty in this way.

Grayson holds the conch.

[ipatent]

I feel like the standard for badass that started in the other thread had mostly to do with guys who would get in the face of anyone trying to start getting chippy and, in turn, getting chippy with the other team in return for cheap shots, etc.

Heyman fightimg the entire UNC team and punching Dick McGuire in the joint is the gold standard. As such, suprised no mention of Andre Buckner. D'oh has Buckner prints on his sternum.

Matt Christiansen's ref accosting post Indiana Sweet 16 in 2002 also ranks high.

Daniel Ewing was sneakily feisty in this way.

Grayson holds the conch.

Christiansen's ref alternation, G's nose breaker, Laettner's non-stomp were not their best moments, to me badass means relishing the art of clutching and grabbing in the trenches to the extent permitted by the rules.

[devildeac]

I feel like the standard for badass that started in the other thread had mostly to do with guys who would get in the face of anyone trying to start getting chippy and, in turn, getting chippy with the other team in return for cheap shots, etc.

Heyman fightimg the entire UNC team and punching Dick McGuire in the joint is the gold standard. As such, suprised no mention of Andre Buckner. D'oh has Buckner prints on his sternum.

Matt Christiansen's ref accosting post Indiana Sweet 16 in 2002 also ranks high.

Daniel Ewing was sneakily feisty in this way.

Grayson holds the conch.

I believe mattman91 credits Buckner somewhere upthread.

[gep]

I feel like the standard for badass that started in the other thread had mostly to do with guys who would get in the face of anyone trying to start getting chippy and, in turn, getting chippy with the other team in return for cheap shots, etc.

Heyman fightimg the entire UNC team and punching Dick McGuire in the joint is the gold standard. As such, suprised no mention of Andre Buckner. D'oh has Buckner prints on his sternum.

Matt Christiansen's ref accosting post Indiana Sweet 16 in 2002 also ranks high.

Daniel Ewing was sneakily feisty in this way.

Grayson holds the conch.

To this end... Patrick Davidson gotta be up there... he went directly at Chris Paul, and "won". :cool:

[sagegrouse]

I feel like the standard for badass that started in the other thread had mostly to do with guys who would get in the face of anyone trying to start getting chippy and, in turn, getting chippy with the other team in return for cheap shots, etc.

Heyman fightimg the entire UNC team and punching Dick McGuire in the joint is the gold standard. As such, suprised no mention of Andre Buckner. D'oh has Buckner prints on his sternum.

Matt Christiansen's ref accosting post Indiana Sweet 16 in 2002 also ranks high.

Daniel Ewing was sneakily feisty in this way.

Grayson holds the conch.

I think you are referring to struttin' Frank McGuire, who left UNC after the 1961 season (one step ahead of the sheriff) and went to the NBA.

[Bike4Fun]

Nate James
Christian Laettner
Art Heyman
Kenny Dennard
Wojo (gotta have a guard; also player coach of the bad asses)
Winslow (6th man)
Meagher (Bench)
Ferry (Bench)
Paulus (Bench)

[slower]

I feel like the standard for badass that started in the other thread had mostly to do with guys who would get in the face of anyone trying to start getting chippy and, in turn, getting chippy with the other team in return for cheap shots, etc.

Heyman fightimg the entire UNC team and punching Dick McGuire in the joint is the gold standard. As such, suprised no mention of Andre Buckner. D'oh has Buckner prints on his sternum.

Matt Christiansen's ref accosting post Indiana Sweet 16 in 2002 also ranks high.

Daniel Ewing was sneakily feisty in this way.

Grayson holds the conch.

You have perfectly understood the spirit of my post. Not necessarily the guy who would start the crap, but the guy who would neither tolerate nor back down from it.

[Billy Dat]

I believe mattman91 credits Buckner somewhere upthread.

Bad job by me. Well done, mattman91!


To this end... Patrick Davidson gotta be up there... he went directly at Chris Paul, and "won". :cool:

Davidson pulled the move knowing full well he'd be out of the game and not have to deal with the consequences. That's way different than a starter pulling that same stunt and knowing full well that Chris Paul was likely to get revenge during the game, likely in the form of a nasty elbow or direct punch. That Davidson stunt enflamed Chris Paul. I have heard him mention that he needed to talk that out with both K when he joined Team USA and JJ when he joined the Clips. Paul holds a grudge. More tangent, CP3's interview on JJ's podcast was awesome. The two did not like each other before becoming teammates, and during JJ's rookie year in the league when he was nailed to the bench, CP was taking the ball out near the Magic bench and first turned, looked at JJ, and loudly announced, "My o my how times have changed!" Ouch.


I think you are referring to struttin' Frank McGuire, who left UNC after the 1961 season (one step ahead of the sheriff) and went to the NBA.

Very bad job by me. My favorite line from the Duke/Carolina HBO doc was Heyman saying he saw McGuire years later, like 20 years later, and McGuire looked at him, grabbed his own package and said, "Still hurts, Artie!"

[sagegrouse]

Davidson pulled the move knowing full well he'd be out of the game and not have to deal with the consequences. That's way different than a starter pulling that same stunt and knowing full well that Chris Paul was likely to get revenge during the game, likely in the form of a nasty elbow or direct punch. That Davidson stunt enflamed Chris Paul. I have heard him mention that he needed to talk that out with both K when he joined Team USA and JJ when he joined the Clips. Paul holds a grudge.

As the guy who started the "Patrick Davidson" thread on DBR under the ancien regime (name was "Blue Grouse" back then), I have my own recollections. There may be some truth to them, but judge for yourself. Duke had lost at Virginia Tech in a peculiarly lifeless performance. At Johnny Dawkins' suggestion, K put all the positions up for grabs and selected starters based on effort and enthusiasm. Patrick Davidson got the nod at guard.* He played two minutes, was in Chris Paul's face every second and got two fouls before returning to the bench, where he chest-bumped Coach K.

Both Chris Paul and his coach, Skip Prosser, after losing 102-92, implied that Duke had started Patrick Davidson to pick a fight with the pugnacious Paul and get the Wake All-American tossed from the game. That wasn't true, but let Wake have its myths.

Kindly,
Sage
*Patrick Johnson and Reggie Love also got tabbed to be starters that night, along with JJ and Shelden Williams. I seem to recall that one of the other reserves also got a starting spot, but privately told K that he thought Shelden should start the game -- maybe Lee Melchionni or Dave McClure?

[johnb]

bad·ass
ˈbadˌas/Submit
NORTH AMERICANinformal
noun
1.
a tough, uncompromising, or intimidating person.
"one of them is a real badass, the other's pretty friendly"
adjective
1.
tough, uncompromising, or intimidating.
"a badass demeanor"



I'd say that many of our players were great players and also tough and uncompromising. I wonder which of our players led opponents to feeling physically intimidated, which to me means that they might get either physically hurt, physically overwhelmed, or embarrassed during the course of a game.

Using that definition, I wouldn't include guys like Grayson or Hurley, who were/are fierce but not physically intimidating. Instead, I'd go with:
Elton Brand (I'd like to know how otherwise excellent players felt going up against Brand and his teammates in '99)
Billy King (Macon, etc, learned they'd get dominated)
Dahntay Jones can infuriate NBA superstars
Justise Winslow (as one announcer said, "I'm always afraid that whenever Winslow drives the lane, someone on the other team is going to get hurt)
Laettner, who opponents (and teammates) hated but who loved to dominate players who were generally less talented and liable to get crushed

Heyman was a brawler and a great player--I don't know his game well enough to know if opponents were specifically worried about him during warm ups

[BLPOG]

As the guy who started the "Patrick Davidson" thread on DBR under the ancien regime (name was "Blue Grouse" back then), I have my own recollections. There may be some truth to them, but judge for yourself. Duke had lost at Virginia Tech in a peculiarly lifeless performance. At Johnny Dawkins' suggestion, K put all the positions up for grabs and selected starters based on effort and enthusiasm. Patrick Davidson got the nod at guard.* He played two minutes, was in Chris Paul's face every second and got two fouls before returning to the bench, where he chest-bumped Coach K.

Both Chris Paul and his coach, Skip Prosser, after losing 102-92, implied that Duke had started Patrick Davidson to pick a fight with the pugnacious Paul and get the Wake All-American tossed from the game. That wasn't true, but let Wake have its myths.

Kindly,
Sage
*Patrick Johnson and Reggie Love also got tabbed to be starters that night, along with JJ and Shelden Williams. I seem to recall that one of the other reserves also got a starting spot, but privately told K that he thought Shelden should start the game -- maybe Lee Melchionni or Dave McClure?

JJ scored 38!

I wonder if any of the Crazies took it upon themselves to use the unique starter circumstances to reverse the Johnson cheer.

[magjayran]

Tyler Thornton at least earns a spot on the bench

[sagegrouse]

Tyler Thornton at least earns a spot on the bench

In one of the worst Duke performances of the last decade, we got smoked by St. John's, 93-78, in Madison Square Garden in January 2011. Freshman Tyler Thornton was inserted as a sub; he played only nine minutes, but committed five fouls and started a fight. The next game he was in the starting lineup. K was sending a message to the rest of the team.

[Spanarkel]

So far, Kyle Singler has received 3 mentions, including by the OP. While I love him as a tough, uncompromising player, I don't put him in the badass category. It seems like most of Singler's many "confrontations" were with the press row tables and the floor(most prominently in the '11 NCAA SS game with Arizona where it took forever to patch him up), and not with opponents. Can anyone cite specific instances on the court of Kyle's being a badass? Thanks.

[Edouble]

So far, Kyle Singler has received 3 mentions, including by the OP. While I love him as a tough, uncompromising player, I don't put him in the badass category. It seems like most of Singler's many "confrontations" were with the press row tables and the floor(most prominently in the '11 NCAA SS game with Arizona where it took forever to patch him up), and not with opponents. Can anyone cite specific instances on the court of Kyle's being a badass? Thanks.

Getting knocked hard to the floor and jumping right back up like it wasn't anything. Letting opponents know that he's made of steel and not to even think that they could get to him. That is badass, to me.

[sagegrouse]

So far, Kyle Singler has received 3 mentions, including by the OP. While I love him as a tough, uncompromising player, I don't put him in the badass category. It seems like most of Singler's many "confrontations" were with the press row tables and the floor(most prominently in the '11 NCAA SS game with Arizona where it took forever to patch him up), and not with opponents. Can anyone cite specific instances on the court of Kyle's being a badass? Thanks.

Agree.. Kyle is really a New Testament kind of guy. At Cameron in 2010 he got leveled -- I mean flattened -- by a swinging elbow by the Wake Forest goon, Chas McFarland. Kyle went from being totally supine to standing in approximately 0.2 seconds, so much so that McFarland was not penalized on the play. The refs did not realize how vicious the foul was.

[Billy Dat]

So far, Kyle Singler has received 3 mentions, including by the OP. While I love him as a tough, uncompromising player, I don't put him in the badass category. It seems like most of Singler's many "confrontations" were with the press row tables and the floor(most prominently in the '11 NCAA SS game with Arizona where it took forever to patch him up), and not with opponents. Can anyone cite specific instances on the court of Kyle's being a badass? Thanks.

I can't think of a specific game/play, but there were many, many times that he "got into it" with the other team. The unique thing about Singler is that he was always smiling when it happened. He'd basically be up in the other player's mug, with that big wide Joker-esque smile, basically mocking the guy. It was highly effective.

I also echo the Tyler Thornton nominations. In fact, he and Dahntay were as close to dirty as Duke players get. Obviously, as has been well documented, Justise too fits that profile with his many kicks, leg pulls and everything else yet he skated (too purty!) Going back a little further, BD was an enforcer-type for the Laettner-era squads.

[79-77]

Meagher and Heyman were before my time, so I've omitted them. From the Duke teams I've watched, I'd nominate:


Brand
James
Carrawell
Brickey
Winslow

6th man: Marshall Plumlee

[OldPhiKap]

Meagher and Heyman were before my time, so I've omitted them. From the Duke teams I've watched, I'd nominate:


Brand
James
Carrawell
Brickey
Winslow

6th man: Marshall Plumlee

Dan Meagher was a hockey enforcer in the lane.

And he spit in Tom Sheehey's face during a game.

He was a Bad Hombre. Or maybe Bad Mountie because he was Canadian. I'm not up on the lingo these days.


I should add: Tom Sheehey of UVA was probably the most hated ACC player of his time. He and Meagher went down in a pile in front of the basket, and action ran the other way. Meagher hocked a big loogie on Sheehey as they were getting up but the refs did not see it. From then on, almost every time Sheehey touched the ball in Cameron for the rest of his career, the Crazies shouted "Meagher spat in your face!" at him in a unison chant.

Danny Ferry also tangled with Sheehey a few years later. On that incident:


What most of the Facebook users probably don’t remember is that without Danny Ferry, there probably isn’t an Austin Rivers, or a Christian Laettner, or a J.J. Redick — at least not in the way we know them. Ferry was the original symbol of Duke hate, one of the nation’s best players who had a reputation for being dirty and getting away with it. In a 1987 game against Virginia, the Cavaliers’ Tom Sheehey (Will Sheehey’s uncle! It does not skip a generation) was ejected after responding to a Ferry low blow with an elbow to the face. When asked about it by Sports Illustrated’s Curry Kirkpatrick, Ferry responded, “I might have popped him too low, but Sheehey was the most hated guy in the ACC. He was old news.” OLD NEWS. Billy King, a teammate, addressed Ferry’s style thusly: “Danny’s no dirtier than anybody else I’ve played against.” Sounds like a glowing endorsement.

Cite: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/most-hated-college-basketball-player-day-2-does-no-one-hate-patrick-ewing-anymore/

[Spanarkel]

Meagher and Heyman were before my time, so I've omitted them. From the Duke teams I've watched, I'd nominate:


Brand
James
Carrawell
Brickey
Winslow

6th man: Marshall Plumlee


Robert Brickey is one the nicest people you could ever meet, and unlike Grayson, I don't think his personality changed on the court.

[ipatent]

K missed out on the likes of Chris Mullin and Uwe Blab his second year, and he was forced to bring in a class of lower rated players. Danny Meagher was one of them. He wasn't a star by any means, but he willed himself into becoming an effective cog in the team that went from 10-17 to the brink of a title the year after he graduated.

[Turk]

Dan Meagher was a hockey enforcer in the lane.

And he spit in Tom Sheehey's face during a game.

He was a Bad Hombre. Or maybe Bad Mountie because he was Canadian. I'm not up on the lingo these days.

I should add: Tom Sheehey of UVA was probably the most hated ACC player of his time. He and Meagher went down in a pile in front of the basket, and action ran the other way. Meagher hocked a big loogie on Sheehey as they were getting up but the refs did not see it. From then on, almost every time Sheehey touched the ball in Cameron for the rest of his career, the Crazies shouted "Meagher spat in your face!" at him in a unison chant.



I'd like to add a bit more color, if I may. Thunder Dan was more than just an enforcer; I thought he had a pretty good basketball IQ. As the Sheehey story shows, he was a master at getting inside his opponents' heads. In addition to playing hard D and drawing charges, Meagher would liked to lock up with his man either defending the post or getting position for a rebound, then flop when his opponent made a push one way or another. He was so good at it that I bet he came close to drawing a foul a game by provoking his opponents. Dan was also always in control; he never got baited into doing anything stupid if tempers got hot and the situation escalated; and IIRC, he was one of the captains his junior year. His tactics were essential for those undersized Duke teams; I have no doubt he taught The Bilastrator a thing or two when Jay was asked to play center. [/MAN-CRUSH]

[jimsumner]

I'd like to add a bit more color, if I may. Thunder Dan was more than just an enforcer; I thought he had a pretty good basketball IQ. As the Sheehey story shows, he was a master at getting inside his opponents' heads. In addition to playing hard D and drawing charges, Meagher would liked to lock up with his man either defending the post or getting position for a rebound, then flop when his opponent made a push one way or another. He was so good at it that I bet he came close to drawing a foul a game by provoking his opponents. Dan was also always in control; he never got baited into doing anything stupid if tempers got hot and the situation escalated; and IIRC, he was one of the captains his junior year. His tactics were essential for those undersized Duke teams; I have no doubt he taught The Bilastrator a thing or two when Jay was asked to play center. [/MAN-CRUSH]

There was a time when ACC pre-game announcements involved player from Team A and player from Team B shaking hands at midcourt, second player from Team A and second player from Team B and so forth, down the line.

Duke-Virginia game in Cameron. 1987, IIRC. Danny Ferry and Tom Sheehy met at midcourt and darn near took off each other's shoulders.

The ACC soon after ditched that part of the pregame.