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ChillinDuke
10-19-2016, 09:18 AM
Did anyone see the article below? Apparently the Big 12 isn't entirely comfortable and is facing some internal disagreements on their conference's landscape. I found it interesting and thought others may as well.

Note - I was trying to post this in the old 101-page "Conference Realignment" thread, but it's locked. Perhaps time to dust it off - hopefully only briefly.

Big 12 Article (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17827297/big-12-reaches-united-decision-decline-expansion-earlier-divide)

- Chillin

superdave
10-19-2016, 11:27 AM
Did anyone see the article below? Apparently the Big 12 isn't entirely comfortable and is facing some internal disagreements on their conference's landscape. I found it interesting and thought others may as well.

Note - I was trying to post this in the old 101-page "Conference Realignment" thread, but it's locked. Perhaps time to dust it off - hopefully only briefly.

Big 12 Article (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17827297/big-12-reaches-united-decision-decline-expansion-earlier-divide)

- Chillin

These are the 11 the conference looked at according to the article: Air Force, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Houston, Rice, South Florida, SMU and Tulane.

If those are the choices, the Big 12 is going to get eaten rather than eat. It's just a matter of who when and how. We are heading to four 16-team power conferences. The Big 12 would be downgrading itself if it follows this expansion path.

My prediction has always been that Texas and Oklahoma go together. Any of the ACC, SEC, Big10, Pac10 would take them. But who would be able to accommodate Texas' ego and Longhorn Network? Swofford was able to do it with Notre Dame. The Pac10 could. I would bet the SEC would be the least accommodating.

ChillinDuke
10-19-2016, 01:09 PM
These are the 11 the conference looked at according to the article: Air Force, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Houston, Rice, South Florida, SMU and Tulane.

If those are the choices, the Big 12 is going to get eaten rather than eat. It's just a matter of who when and how. We are heading to four 16-team power conferences. The Big 12 would be downgrading itself if it follows this expansion path.

My prediction has always been that Texas and Oklahoma go together. Any of the ACC, SEC, Big10, Pac10 would take them. But who would be able to accommodate Texas' ego and Longhorn Network? Swofford was able to do it with Notre Dame. The Pac10 could. I would bet the SEC would be the least accommodating.

Couldn't agree more.

In fact, I'd take it a step further and say the Big 12 would be AAC-ing itself. They would essentially be stepping into the AAC's position a few years ago and subsuming the teams that the AAC subsumed. Which is the same thing the Big East did to Conference USA, right? And didn't Conference USA do it before that?

Reading between the lines of the memo obtained by ESPN, I see a summary something on the order of, "We don't want to even give the appearance that we are going down the same road as the Big East."

- Chillin

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-19-2016, 01:20 PM
Not going down the Big East road means "sacrificing everything to stay viable?"

bob blue devil
10-19-2016, 01:50 PM
I'm a bit skeptical about the 16 team cap on conferences. There's media negotiating leverage with scale that doesn't end at 16. The optimal solution (from a revenue standpoint, not necessarily my preference) may be continued consolidation with divisions looking more like old fashioned conferences.

There is not much magic to 16 (aside from all the benefits of being 2^4). The conferences are more competing than cooperating at the moment, and it's unlikely they come together and agree on a balanced global structure for the conferences.

budwom
10-19-2016, 01:58 PM
I don't know or care much about ongoing conference realignments, but I always get a warm feeling when I read about
UCONN still wandering in the wilderness looking for a conference to besmirch. Wander on, you dirtballs! (The ACC showed
rare good judgment in rejecting those degenerates, who also besmirch the otherwise good name of a noble breed of canine).

OldPhiKap
10-19-2016, 02:09 PM
I don't know or care much about ongoing conference realignments, but I always get a warm feeling when I read about
UCONN still wandering in the wilderness looking for a conference to besmirch. Wander on, you dirtballs! (The ACC showed
rare good judgment in rejecting those degenerates, who also besmirch the otherwise good name of a noble breed of canine).

You can primarily thank Boston College I think, getting some payback to the boys in Storrs for a prior attempt to punish BC for leaving the BE.

budwom
10-19-2016, 02:12 PM
You can primarily thank Boston College I think, getting some payback to the boys in Storrs for a prior attempt to punish BC for leaving the BE.

IIRC (dubious), I don't think unc or Duke were particularly in favor of having UCONN either.
Speaking of BC....for a school with decent tradition in both grid and hoop sports, the last few years in the ACC have been especially unfruitful.

OldPhiKap
10-19-2016, 04:29 PM
IIRC (dubious), I don't think unc or Duke were particularly in favor of having UCONN either.
Speaking of BC...for a school with decent tradition in both grid and hoop sports, the last few years in the ACC have been especially unfruitful.

I believe you are correct as to your first point, and clearly are as to your second.

Ichabod Drain
10-19-2016, 04:41 PM
IIRC (dubious), I don't think unc or Duke were particularly in favor of having UCONN either.
Speaking of BC...for a school with decent tradition in both grid and hoop sports, the last few years in the ACC have been especially unfruitful.

For those keeping track at home, it's been 588 days since BC won a conference football or men's basketball game.

Pghdukie
10-19-2016, 04:46 PM
Totally just a random thought, but it wouldn't surprise me if Texas and Oklahoma wind up in the BIG10. Again, just a wild idea

Bob Green
10-19-2016, 04:52 PM
We are heading to four 16-team power conferences.

The P5 conference members plus Notre Dame add up to 65. Who gets left out? This situation always makes me question the four 16-team power conferences scenario. A current P5 team or Notre Dame gets kicked to the curb.

Tripping William
10-19-2016, 04:59 PM
The P5 conference members plus Notre Dame add up to 65. Who gets left out? This situation always makes me question the four 16-team power conferences scenario. A current P5 team or Notre Dame gets kicked to the curb.

As of today, wouldn't it be the one that hasn't won a conference game in football or men's basketball in 588 days and counting? {Ducking as Doug Flutie hurls his Heisman Trophy in my direction}

Atlanta Duke
10-19-2016, 05:20 PM
You can primarily thank Boston College I think, getting some payback to the boys in Storrs for a prior attempt to punish BC for leaving the BE.


IIRC (dubious), I don't think unc or Duke were particularly in favor of having UCONN either.

Opposition to UConn joining the ACC apparently has involved shifting concerns

BC allegedly led the charge when Syracuse and Pitt were added

While Syracuse presented no problem, UConn did - to BC, which was still fuming over what it perceived to be vitriolic comments made when BC was finally invited to join the ACC and started competing in 2005. UConn and Pittsburgh filed a lawsuit against BC, and Calhoun made comments about never playing BC again.

[BC AD Gene] DeFilippo does not deny that BC opposed the inclusion of UConn.

“We didn’t want them in,’’ he said. “It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team.’’

http://archive.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=1

But when Louisville was added King Football drove that decision

Most of the A.C.C.’s presidents wanted UConn, which has a much higher U.S. News ranking than Louisville. But two of the A.C.C.’s most important football programs, Florida State and Clemson, insisted on Louisville, whose football team was ranked 13th that year. Fearing that the two universities might leave the A.C.C., and thus diminish the value of its television contracts, the conference reluctantly opted for Louisville.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/sports/basketball/football-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html

brevity
10-19-2016, 05:31 PM
The P5 conference members plus Notre Dame add up to 65. Who gets left out? This situation always makes me question the four 16-team power conferences scenario. A current P5 team or Notre Dame gets kicked to the curb.

Let's try it out, assuming that no non-power conference teams are elevated, and only the Big XII gets picked apart.

Pac-16 adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas.
ACC adds Notre Dame for football and West Virginia.
Big Ten adds Kansas State and TCU.
SEC adds Baylor and Texas Tech.

You may disagree with some of that, but it's pretty clear no one wants Iowa State, unless someone tricks the SEC into believing it brings in the Chicago market, and is worth more than a third Texas team.

(Of course, if we were really building 16-team superconferences without regard to financial penalties for defection, the SEC is raiding the ACC if they can't add Texas and Oklahoma. And while they wouldn't be the first choices, I say NC State and Virginia Tech make that jump.)

ChillinDuke
10-19-2016, 06:11 PM
The P5 conference members plus Notre Dame add up to 65. Who gets left out? This situation always makes me question the four 16-team power conferences scenario. A current P5 team or Notre Dame gets kicked to the curb.

It's a fun hypothetical.

Assumptions:

1) The B12 is the most vulnerable conference
2) The deal the ACC struck with ND was with an eye toward your hypothetical happening: ND officially joins the ACC in football
3) No team currently in a P5 conference will be kicked out

Assuming the above you're left picking the B12 dry. Obviously Texas and Oklahoma are first picks and thus land quite safely. OK State has traditionally good sports programs and is a big school and could possibly open up the OK market to a second conference. Kansas probably gets picked up to grab the Kansas market and the basketball team, despite recently poor football.

Now down to Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU, Texas Tech, and WVU.

Arguments could probably be made against any of these teams being left out.

Texas Tech is probably safe, since another Texas school will land somewhere and they have a big enrollment and have been solid at football over the last 10-20 years.

TCU has been very good at football recently and is in TX, but they only recent joined the B12 (and I think this was after they bailed on the Big East) so safe to say they were very recently on the outside looking in at the P5. Unclear if the logic that held them on the outside looking in before will continue to hold them on the outside looking in at the Hypothetical 4 (H4).

WVU has good football and basketball but doesn't really offer a tangible market, which this is all about. I'd guess that they'd find a home since they quickly found a home in the B12 from the BE. But you never know.

Baylor has had great football and basketball recently. But they're private and have a total enrollment around 15K. The argument against them would be that the SEC has Texas A&M already. If the ACC, P12, and B1G opt to divvy up Texas, Texas Tech, and TCU, Baylor may not add much in terms of TV audience as any conference's 2nd TX team. This could spell their doom.

Iowa St doesn't offer up much of anything. No major TV market to speak of. A solid but not jaw dropping enrollment of ~35K. Football that has been well below .500 over the last 20 years (and in fact has a losing record against every single team in the B12 with the exception of Kansas State; 49-46). Basketball has been reasonably good since the turn of the century, making the NCAAT in '00 (2 seed), '01 (2), '05, '12, '13, '14 (3), '15 (3), and '16. But still, basketball does not drive this bus. So they are vulnerable to be left out.

Kansas St doesn't have a ton to offer in terms of TV audience, perhaps a slight in with the KC/STL markets. Relatively small enrollment for a state school at ~25K. Football has been solid under Bill Foster (both stints), including 6 consecutive bowl games. Basketball has gone up and down. Honestly, they'd probably find a home given their football performance, relatively speaking.

So, in my pretty cursory review of the B12 situation, I'd put Baylor, TCU, and Iowa St on highest alert. Baylor vs TCU would probably come down to the last pick of the TX schools (I think Baylor would beat out TCU). And then it's up to a conference if they want to take a 2nd TX school (and presumably no additional TV markets) or Iowa St.

Fun to banter about.

- Chillin

ETA - Brevity beat me to it because it took me 2 hours to press "Post".

ETA x2 - In reality, I'd actually assume that BYU would get scooped up before either of TCU or Iowa St.

Eternal Outlaw
10-19-2016, 06:19 PM
Let's try it out, assuming that no non-power conference teams are elevated, and only the Big XII gets picked apart.

Pac-16 adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas.
ACC adds Notre Dame for football and West Virginia.
Big Ten adds Kansas State and TCU.
SEC adds Baylor and Texas Tech.

You may disagree with some of that, but it's pretty clear no one wants Iowa State, unless someone tricks the SEC into believing it brings in the Chicago market, and is worth more than a third Texas team.

(Of course, if we were really building 16-team superconferences without regard to financial penalties for defection, the SEC is raiding the ACC if they can't add Texas and Oklahoma. And while they wouldn't be the first choices, I say NC State and Virginia Tech make that jump.)

I'd replace TCU with Iowa State in that scenario. I know Texas is a grail state for talent but if they can't get Texas, I don't think the members let that be the reason to bring in Texas extra light. Iowa and Iowa State obviously are a natural rivalry and fits in snug. Iowa State is also part of the AAU which I think until Nebraska got booted from, every University in the Big Ten was a part of and they take pride in. Also why they would fight hard for Kansas over Kansas State I think.

SCMatt33
10-19-2016, 06:21 PM
Let's try it out, assuming that no non-power conference teams are elevated, and only the Big XII gets picked apart.

Pac-16 adds Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Kansas.
ACC adds Notre Dame for football and West Virginia.
Big Ten adds Kansas State and TCU.
SEC adds Baylor and Texas Tech.

You may disagree with some of that, but it's pretty clear no one wants Iowa State, unless someone tricks the SEC into believing it brings in the Chicago market, and is worth more than a third Texas team.

(Of course, if we were really building 16-team superconferences without regard to financial penalties for defection, the SEC is raiding the ACC if they can't add Texas and Oklahoma. And while they wouldn't be the first choices, I say NC State and Virginia Tech make that jump.)

I've really never understood the 4x16 thing other than symmetry. Each of these conferences will act independently and most "superconferences" I see suggested see, to shoehorn teams in there. Like you said, if we were really building them the SEC would want ACC teams (unless they get Texas and/or OU). I see no scenario in which the SEC would add Texas Tech and Baylor. Texas Tech is out on the middle of nowhere and doesn't add much from a program standpoint and Baylor (besides the whole sexual assault scandal) doesn't add anything they don't already have with A&M. What would compel the, to go to 16? No one is going to exclude the SEC from any NCAA break away (if it came to that) because they only have 14 members. Additionally, the SEC highly values only playing 8 conference games including a cross division permanent rival. That schedule would be impossible with 16 and wouldn't be something they'd give up without getting quality programs and/or tv markets in return.

The way I see it. OU is the lynchpin in all of this. Texas with its LHN deal is making SEC type money without having to play in the SEC. They aren't going to walk away from that to go play Alabama or Ohio state every year. They aren't walking away from that to go play a 10:30 eastern kickoff in Pullman, Washington, either. OU, however, might as they don't have that extra 10-15 million that the LHN brings. Would the B1G or SEC accept OSU if the politics still forces that, or would OU be willing to walk away from the little brother? Who knows? If either of those questions is answered yes, it may force the hand of Texas, who would be looking at losing revenue from a reduced Big 12 deal without OU in 9 years.

In the end, I see three likely scenarios by the middle of the next decade. 1) Texas and OU like being the power players of that mess and everything stands pat. 2) They revive the old PAC-16 deal with two other schools. The remaining 6 aren't really wanted by the other leagues (except maybe ninja Swofford grabbing someone if he can convince ND to jump in as a preemptive measure against future SEC/B1G action) and they raid the AAC to form a true tweener conference. 3) some combo of Texas and OU and possibly two partners to the SEC and B1G. PAC-12 stands pat, ACC stands pat no longer seeing a thread with the other two at 16. Just my speculative 2 cents.

DU82
10-19-2016, 08:09 PM
The magic of 64 (or 4x16) is that it fits the football playoff better, if it's not expanded to six or eight teams. For conference football, it allows a nine game schedule with 7 in division, plus 2 out (without "permanent" partners, that means a four year rotation.)

Given that BYU is a player for the 64, that means two P5 teams would be left out. Looking at each conference, I'd think Wake and BC would be vulnerable from the ACC, Northwestern and (more likely) Rutgers from the B1G. As mentioned, there's probably three or four from the Big12. I doubt anybody from the Pac12 or SEC would be on the chopping block, the Pac12 because of geography, and the SEC because, well, they're the SEC. I do think teams from the Big12 are the most likely cut candidates.

Regarding my brother's alma mater, when the SWC imploded, and the Big 8 became the (actual) 12, TCU was one of the four left outside. Rice, SMU and Houston have mostly gone down since then, with occasional upbeats. TCU's football was probably worse than Duke's during that time, until Gary Patterson got there. They do have financial resources, and do bring the smaller side of the DFW metro area to play. While they've really never been good in basketball, they have had successful teams in other sports, notably baseball.

Olympic Fan
10-19-2016, 08:18 PM
This is all message board fantasy ...

There will not be a major conference realignment for AT LEAST a decade.

SCMatt33
10-19-2016, 09:04 PM
The magic of 64 (or 4x16) is that it fits the football playoff better, if it's not expanded to six or eight teams. For conference football, it allows a nine game schedule with 7 in division, plus 2 out (without "permanent" partners, that means a four year rotation.)

Given that BYU is a player for the 64, that means two P5 teams would be left out. Looking at each conference, I'd think Wake and BC would be vulnerable from the ACC, Northwestern and (more likely) Rutgers from the B1G. As mentioned, there's probably three or four from the Big12. I doubt anybody from the Pac12 or SEC would be on the chopping block, the Pac12 because of geography, and the SEC because, well, they're the SEC. I do think teams from the Big12 are the most likely cut candidates.

Regarding my brother's alma mater, when the SWC imploded, and the Big 8 became the (actual) 12, TCU was one of the four left outside. Rice, SMU and Houston have mostly gone down since then, with occasional upbeats. TCU's football was probably worse than Duke's during that time, until Gary Patterson got there. They do have financial resources, and do bring the smaller side of the DFW metro area to play. While they've really never been good in basketball, they have had successful teams in other sports, notably baseball.

So I get why the 4 power conference model, especially if they try to break from the NCAA altogether, makes sense. What I don't get is what force makes them need to have 16 teams to each. Say for instance that Texas and OU go to a conference or conferences other than the Pac-12. Why would the Pac-12 add teams at that point. Utah would want no part of BYU in the league, not to mention the same honor code issues that hurt them with the Big 12. Among the non Texas and OU Big 12 teams, none would be enough of a draw imo to make the Pac-12 want to deal with the headache of a three time zone league. Furthermore, I don't see where the other leagues would have the leverage to tell them, "Get 16 or you don't get into our playoff". There are still enough top programs there that a playoff without the league would lose clout. Why can't 16-16-14-12 be the final number?

ChillinDuke
10-20-2016, 09:07 AM
So I get why the 4 power conference model, especially if they try to break from the NCAA altogether, makes sense. What I don't get is what force makes them need to have 16 teams to each. Say for instance that Texas and OU go to a conference or conferences other than the Pac-12. Why would the Pac-12 add teams at that point. Utah would want no part of BYU in the league, not to mention the same honor code issues that hurt them with the Big 12. Among the non Texas and OU Big 12 teams, none would be enough of a draw imo to make the Pac-12 want to deal with the headache of a three time zone league. Furthermore, I don't see where the other leagues would have the leverage to tell them, "Get 16 or you don't get into our playoff". There are still enough top programs there that a playoff without the league would lose clout. Why can't 16-16-14-12 be the final number?

I think that's a great question and phrased well.

Frankly, I can't think of a good answer. However, one potential answer is the teams not in your hypothetical 16-16-14-12. Similar to UConn right now, those teams are going to be jumping through hoops to find a landing spot. Getting boxed out of the four-conference playoff means sacrificing serious dollars, school prestige, etc. The powers that be at those institutions (and outside those institutions) will not sit idly by watching their former revenues, etc dry up. Now, that doesn't mean the H4 would have to take anyone additional. To your point, no internal conference force will mandate 4x16. But outside forces may, and deals and discussions would definitely take place.

- Chillin

sagegrouse
10-20-2016, 10:41 AM
So I get why the 4 power conference model, especially if they try to break from the NCAA altogether, makes sense. What I don't get is what force makes them need to have 16 teams to each. Say for instance that Texas and OU go to a conference or conferences other than the Pac-12. Why would the Pac-12 add teams at that point. Utah would want no part of BYU in the league, not to mention the same honor code issues that hurt them with the Big 12. Among the non Texas and OU Big 12 teams, none would be enough of a draw imo to make the Pac-12 want to deal with the headache of a three time zone league. Furthermore, I don't see where the other leagues would have the leverage to tell them, "Get 16 or you don't get into our playoff". There are still enough top programs there that a playoff without the league would lose clout. Why can't 16-16-14-12 be the final number?

SCMatt, I think the talk about a 4 x 16 = 64 conference alignment is unlikely to happen soon, if ever. But here's how it might:

The strongest part of the logic is the threat of the 10-team Big 12 losing Texas and Oklahoma to the Big Ten or SEC or PAC-12. If that happens, then one would guess that the other marketable Big-12 teams would seek safe and remunerative harbor in the remaining viable conferences.

Why would "four conferences" be a magic number? Well, there is a logical limit on the size of conferences that meet on the playing field. Sixteen might be the max. (Leaving out constructions like 20-team "conferences," which are truly confederations of schools with two subsidiary conferences.) There would be, as the logic continues, approximately 64 athletic programs that reach a certain level of economic and competitive force, which happens to be the number of the current power five conferences (65, if Notre Dame is included).

Moreover, there is a logic to a minimum of four major conferences: the Midwest and the Southeast have been having intense sports competitions for at least 90 years. The West Coast presents, not only the historical ties of competition, but the inexorable matter of geography and distance. The ACC is the East Coast conference (w3ith only an exception or two).

As regards to "leaving the NCAA," I doubt that happens. As Duke AD Kevin White says regularly, "The NCAA is an organization created by the schools to enforce the rules also created by the schools." There would always have to nbe an NCAA-type organization; why not just modify and use the one we have. Maybe there needs to be a subset of the FBS to reflect the power conferences and give the schools there a little freedom, as in payments to players. It's not about economics, except the the Final Four. The NCAA doesn't share in bowl or playoff revenue; it's funding comes mostly from the NCAA basketball tournament, which it owns. And, of course, the NCAA must have a source of revenue, which the schools collectively need to provide for.

AustinDevil
10-20-2016, 11:47 AM
Regarding my brother's alma mater, when the SWC imploded, and the Big 8 became the (actual) 12, TCU was one of the four left outside. Rice, SMU and Houston have mostly gone down since then, with occasional upbeats. TCU's football was probably worse than Duke's during that time, until Gary Patterson got there. They do have financial resources, and do bring the smaller side of the DFW metro area to play. While they've really never been good in basketball, they have had successful teams in other sports, notably baseball.

Mostly quite accurate; Dennis Franchione started their rebirth and Patterson continued it.

SCMatt33
10-20-2016, 12:57 PM
The strongest part of the logic is the threat of the 10-team Big 12 losing Texas and Oklahoma to the Big Ten or SEC or PAC-12. If that happens, then one would guess that the other marketable Big-12 teams would seek safe and remunerative harbor in the remaining viable conferences.

This is part I have trouble seeing. I totally agree that once Texas and OU leave, the other 6 or 8 (depending on whether UT and OU went together or separate and each with another partner) would try very hard to get in somewhere. What I don't see is compelling evidence that any of those programs would be attractive to the 4 remaining power conferences. With only 4 conferences left, the looming threat of "being eaten" isn't there anymore. None of the other 8 provide much in the way of market size (except perhaps Baylor, but hey have tons of other baggage), and none have a huge national following that would make up for that lack of market. If it were to happen, I'd see the remaining 6 or 8, holding onto the big 12 name and adding the best of the teams they just rejected and existing as a true tweener league, clearly head and shoulders above the group of 5 in performance and revenue, but clearly well below the Power 4. The only exception imo would be if the Pac-12 got UT and OU and after waiting out the ACC till the 2030's, the B1G and SEC snagged a couple of ACC teams and the ACC raiding the new tweener Big 12 for replacements, but I see that as less likely to happen.

sagegrouse
10-20-2016, 01:50 PM
This is part I have trouble seeing. I totally agree that once Texas and OU leave, the other 6 or 8 (depending on whether UT and OU went together or separate and each with another partner) would try very hard to get in somewhere. What I don't see is compelling evidence that any of those programs would be attractive to the 4 remaining power conferences. With only 4 conferences left, the looming threat of "being eaten" isn't there anymore. None of the other 8 provide much in the way of market size (except perhaps Baylor, but hey have tons of other baggage), and none have a huge national following that would make up for that lack of market. If it were to happen, I'd see the remaining 6 or 8, holding onto the big 12 name and adding the best of the teams they just rejected and existing as a true tweener league, clearly head and shoulders above the group of 5 in performance and revenue, but clearly well below the Power 4. The only exception imo would be if the Pac-12 got UT and OU and after waiting out the ACC till the 2030's, the B1G and SEC snagged a couple of ACC teams and the ACC raiding the new tweener Big 12 for replacements, but I see that as less likely to happen.

I agree with you that Texas's and Oklahoma's leaving the Big 12 is unlikely, but that's the move that would result in 4 x 16 power conference alignment. Your point that none of the remaining Big 12 teams are attractive to the other four conferences is an interesting one. Let's see... Texas tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, Kansas, K-state, West Virginia, Iowa State. That's an interesting proposition. You may be right. That would mean only 56 teams (+ND) in the Power Four conferences.