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Ichabod Drain
10-07-2016, 10:37 AM
The first and second rounds of the 2017 NCAA tournament that were supposed to be held in Greensboro have been moved to Greenville, SC in the Bon Secours Wellness arena. Dates are March 17&19.

I think it would be a pretty good bet that Duke will be playing here so anyone planning on attending can start working on travel plans.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2016-10-07/ncaa-announces-sites-relocated-championships

MChambers
10-07-2016, 10:43 AM
The first and second rounds of the 2017 NCAA tournament that were supposed to be held in Greensboro have been moved to Greenville, SC in the Bon Secours Wellness arena. Dates are March 17&19.

I think it would be a pretty good bet that Duke will be playing here so anyone planning on attending can start working on travel plans.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2016-10-07/ncaa-announces-sites-relocated-championships
thanks for posting this!

Do you think the NCAA wanted to stick with "Green" and "Carolina"? Interesting choice of venue.

SCMatt33
10-07-2016, 10:44 AM
I think the is the most logistically sound decision, especially after Columbia declined to bid. It's a recently renovated arena and it keeps regional balance in tact.

Troublemaker
10-07-2016, 11:18 AM
The first and second rounds of the 2017 NCAA tournament that were supposed to be held in Greensboro have been moved to Greenville, SC in the Bon Secours Wellness arena. Dates are March 17&19.

I think it would be a pretty good bet that Duke will be playing here so anyone planning on attending can start working on travel plans.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2016-10-07/ncaa-announces-sites-relocated-championships

Yep, if Duke ends up with the choice, we would choose Greenville, I would think.

Our path to the Final Four could be a relatively cozy Greenville --> Madison Square Garden --> Glendale

UrinalCake
10-07-2016, 12:11 PM
Interesting that the new rule allowing the overall #1 to choose their first weekend site comes around the same year Duke is projected to be the overall #1 and can't play in their home state. If we are fortunate to be in that position, I wonder if we'd choose a site in the NY/NJ area where we have a strong fan base and have traditionally played well? I don't imagine the travel time would be that much different, and the accommodations would probably be nicer too.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-07-2016, 12:14 PM
Oooh, an hour from here! Duly noted...

CrazyNotCrazie
10-07-2016, 12:18 PM
Interesting that the new rule allowing the overall #1 to choose their first weekend site comes around the same year Duke is projected to be the overall #1 and can't play in their home state. If we are fortunate to be in that position, I wonder if we'd choose a site in the NY/NJ area where we have a strong fan base and have traditionally played well? I don't imagine the travel time would be that much different, and the accommodations would probably be nicer too.

The possible sites for the first weekend are Buffalo, Milwaukee, Orlando, Salt Lake City, Greenville, Indianapolis, Tulsa and Sacramento. It seems like Greenville is still far and away the winner for us. Note that Indianapolis games are at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, not the dome - I think Coach K would love to get the team more experience playing in a dome with the unique background for shooting and might be willing to travel slightly further for that, but that is not an option.

60sDukie
10-07-2016, 12:28 PM
Interesting that the new rule allowing the overall #1 to choose their first weekend site comes around the same year Duke is projected to be the overall #1 and can't play in their home state. If we are fortunate to be in that position, I wonder if we'd choose a site in the NY/NJ area where we have a strong fan base and have traditionally played well? I don't imagine the travel time would be that much different, and the accommodations would probably be nicer too.

I beg to differ. Have you been to Greenville lately? Downtown is full of wonderful restaurants and has many recently-built wonderful hotels. The Bon Secours arena is downtown and the whole area is very walkable and lovely. Unless you are in penthouse territory, I would put our accommodations up against anyone's.

UrinalCake
10-07-2016, 12:36 PM
My apologies, as I have never actually been to Greenville. Also, I looked up the list of first round sites and the next closest host city would be Buffalo. I would think that Greenville is at least as nice as Buffalo (with no offense intended towards any Buffalo natives in the thread).

In case anyone is wondering, the first round sites are Buffalo, Greensboro (now Greenville), Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Orlando, Tulsa, Sacramento, Salt Lake City and Indianapolis.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-07-2016, 12:59 PM
I beg to differ. Have you been to Greenville lately? Downtown is full of wonderful restaurants and has many recently-built wonderful hotels. The Bon Secours arena is downtown and the whole area is very walkable and lovely. Unless you are in penthouse territory, I would put our accommodations up against anyone's.

I concur - Greenville in mid-March ought to be destination-worthy.

flyingdutchdevil
10-07-2016, 01:24 PM
Yep, if Duke ends up with the choice, we would choose Greenville, I would think.

Our path to the Final Four could be a relatively cozy Greenville --> Madison Square Garden --> Glendale

Greenville to the Garden to Glendale...led by Grayson and Giles.

I'm starting to see a trend here...

SCMatt33
10-07-2016, 01:27 PM
Greenville to the Garden to Glendale...led by Grayson and Giles.

I'm starting to see a trend here...

Don't forget the Genius Gold-Medalist on the sidelines

Olympic Fan
10-07-2016, 01:47 PM
FWIW, the 2002 Duke team won two NCAA games in this arena in 2002, beating Winthrop and Notre Dame in first/second round games.

Duke also lost to Clemson in this arena last season (Clemson was playing there while Littlejohn was being refurbished).

Lunchab1es
10-07-2016, 02:07 PM
As someone currently living in Greenville, I am super excited by this development. Also, I can confirm that the renovated downtown is very nice and walkable - full of fun, independently owned restaurants and bars, with a lovely park. I can be your tour guide for a modest fee ;)

subzero02
10-07-2016, 02:28 PM
Will Bob Jones University serve as the host school? They have always been a thorn in intolerance's side.

Ichabod Drain
10-07-2016, 02:34 PM
Will Bob Jones University serve as the host school? They have always been a thorn in intolerance's side.

I believe it's Furman.

OldPhiKap
10-07-2016, 02:39 PM
I beg to differ. Have you been to Greenville lately? Downtown is full of wonderful restaurants and has many recently-built wonderful hotels. The Bon Secours arena is downtown and the whole area is very walkable and lovely. Unless you are in penthouse territory, I would put our accommodations up against anyone's.

Agreed, Greenville/Spartanburg has really grown -- in a good way. It will be a fine location, worthy of the event.

DukeCaper
10-07-2016, 02:44 PM
Will Bob Jones University serve as the host school? They have always been a thorn in intolerance's side.

No, Bob Jones is not involved. They are a rather quiet thorn in Greenville. I also live in Greenville. I think everyone will find it a good venue for BB and a nice downtown area. I saw Duke there (at the then BiLo Center) in 2002.

Olympic Fan
10-07-2016, 03:16 PM
As someone currently living in Greenville, I am super excited by this development. Also, I can confirm that the renovated downtown is very nice and walkable - full of fun, independently owned restaurants and bars, with a lovely park. I can be your tour guide for a modest fee ;)

Jim Boeheim would agree.

A year or two ago when his distaste for having the ACC Tournament in Greensboro was big news, Boeheim was accused of being a big-city snob ... he denied that and in rebuttal, said the best restaurant he had ever eaten in was in Greenville, SC -- Chophouse 47:

https://twitter.com/accsports/status/390687119187783680

camion
10-07-2016, 03:24 PM
As one who lives 5 miles from the Bon Secours arena in G'ville. :):):D:D

Furman and Clemson are both NCAA schools that might host. Clemson played their home games there last year while their on campus arena was being redone.

chrishoke
10-07-2016, 03:43 PM
My son went to Furman and got married in Greenville. I have missed going there.

Turk
10-07-2016, 04:05 PM
I suppose Greenville will be a fine venue, but I was clinging to a slender thread of hope that the NCAA would consider The Palestra in Philly as an alternative site. I read something that the NCAA's options very limited, given that all the pro arenas had their hockey and basketball schedules locked down. Other sites in smaller cities might not have the necessary hotel capacity due to similar already-scheduled conflicts such as conventions, and so The Palestra could have been an emergency fallback.

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/09/15/ncaa-tournament-palestra-liacouras/

I'm pretty sure I can find people around here who can testify that during the Big Five heyday the fire marshal didn't care until they had at least 11,000 in the building.

SCMatt33
10-07-2016, 04:17 PM
As one who lives 5 miles from the Bon Secours arena in G'ville. :):):D:D

Furman and Clemson are both NCAA schools that might host. Clemson played their home games there last year while their on campus arena was being redone.

Furman and the SoCon are the hosts as they were the ones who submitted the bid.

-jk
10-07-2016, 06:57 PM
Oooh, an hour from here! Duly noted...

And less than an hour from The Gorge Zipline (http://thegorgezipline.com/) - one of the most awesome ziplines around! Hope it's open...

-jk

DukieTiger
10-07-2016, 11:44 PM
I'm excited for my hometown to get to host again! The last time Greenville hosted, it was on the brink of a decade+ of economic and cultural development centered on the downtown area. It will have been 15 years, and in that time they have completely transformed the downtown are into a destination for any visitors. When Duke gets placed there (:cool:) there will be no shortage of scenery, food and lodging for those who will attend.

As an aside, I also wouldn't be shocked if the ACC Baseball tournament also relocated to SC- Greenville or Myrtle Beach.

OldPhiKap
10-07-2016, 11:48 PM
I'm excited for my hometown to get to host again! The last time Greenville hosted, it was on the brink of a decade+ of economic and cultural development centered on the downtown area. It will have been 15 years, and in that time they have completely transformed the downtown are into a destination for any visitors. When Duke gets placed there (:cool:) there will be no shortage of scenery, food and lodging for those who will attend.

As an aside, I also wouldn't be shocked if the ACC Baseball tournament also relocated to SC- Greenville or Myrtle Beach.

Congrats on a vibrant and enviable downtown revival. Really done well.

YmoBeThere
10-08-2016, 05:57 AM
Having lived in Greensboro for 4 years and having been to GSP a couple dozen times, I'd rather visit GSP. Now if the Piedmont Triad could combine the best of Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and High Point, in a central location, you would really have something. But alas, that is the downside.

DU82
10-08-2016, 07:52 AM
I'm excited for my hometown to get to host again! The last time Greenville hosted, it was on the brink of a decade+ of economic and cultural development centered on the downtown area. It will have been 15 years, and in that time they have completely transformed the downtown are into a destination for any visitors. When Duke gets placed there (:cool:) there will be no shortage of scenery, food and lodging for those who will attend.

As an aside, I also wouldn't be shocked if the ACC Baseball tournament also relocated to SC- Greenville or Myrtle Beach.

The baseball tournament will be in Louisville this season.

Tripping William
10-08-2016, 08:52 AM
Having lived in Greensboro for 4 years and having been to GSP a couple dozen times, I'd rather visit GSP. Now if the Piedmont Triad could combine the best of Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and High Point, in a central location, you would really have something. But alas, that is the downside.

Not to thread-jack too much, but, IMO (I've stopped searching for the "H"), that ship sailed in 1997 when the voters in Guilford and Forsyth Counties voted against a 0.5% prepared foods tax (a nickel on every hundred dollars) that would have lured the Minnesota Twins to the Triad (with an MLB stadium in Kernersville). From there out, revitalization efforts here have been vibrant, but separate. I'm biased, but I'd put the order of success in those efforts as W-S, then Greensboro, then High Point. A coordinated effort, centered around the national pastime, could really have been something to envy. Alas ....

Olympic Fan
10-08-2016, 11:22 AM
Not to thread-jack too much, but, IMO (I've stopped searching for the "H"), that ship sailed in 1997 when the voters in Guilford and Forsyth Counties voted against a 0.5% prepared foods tax (a nickel on every hundred dollars) that would have lured the Minnesota Twins to the Triad (with an MLB stadium in Kernersville). From there out, revitalization efforts here have been vibrant, but separate. I'm biased, but I'd put the order of success in those efforts as W-S, then Greensboro, then High Point. A coordinated effort, centered around the national pastime, could really have been something to envy. Alas ...

Have to disagree .. spending millions of public dollars to built multi-million dollar stadiums for multi-millionaires is just about the WORST use of public funds I can imagine. Especially since the owners in question have no qualms about moving again when another municipality comes up with a better offer. The money that would have been poured into the stadium in Kernersville could have beeb better spent revitalizing downtown Winston-Salem and Greensboro.

I salute the voters of Guilford and Forsyth for their wisdom.

arnie
10-08-2016, 11:43 AM
Not to thread-jack too much, but, IMO (I've stopped searching for the "H"), that ship sailed in 1997 when the voters in Guilford and Forsyth Counties voted against a 0.5% prepared foods tax (a nickel on every hundred dollars) that would have lured the Minnesota Twins to the Triad (with an MLB stadium in Kernersville). From there out, revitalization efforts here have been vibrant, but separate. I'm biased, but I'd put the order of success in those efforts as W-S, then Greensboro, then High Point. A coordinated effort, centered around the national pastime, could really have been something to envy. Alas ...

I'll disagree for another reason. Bud Selig (who I admire as much as Fedora/Williams/Bubba) flat out said"there will never be Major League Baseball in North Carolina". He said that in response to questions about a relocation in the late 90s. Fortunately that arrogant fool has moved on, but MLB is very stodgy, not gonna expand beyond 32 and likely pick another illogical northern location, Mexico or Vegas if a team moves.

If we ever get a team long after I'm gone, I think baseball will see a big revival in this state with good TV ratings. Nor sure about attendance for the games unless Triad or Triangle populations really blow up.

MartyClark
10-08-2016, 12:57 PM
Have to disagree .. spending millions of public dollars to built multi-million dollar stadiums for multi-millionaires is just about the WORST use of public funds I can imagine. Especially since the owners in question have no qualms about moving again when another municipality comes up with a better offer. The money that would have been poured into the stadium in Kernersville could have beeb better spent revitalizing downtown Winston-Salem and Greensboro.

I salute the voters of Guilford and Forsyth for their wisdom.

You are probably correct. I live in Denver and some would argue that the construction of Coors Field spurred tremendous economic growth in what, historically, had been a skid row neighborhood.

I'm not an economist or urban planner but I think Coors Field did revitalize Denver. Maybe it just spurred a growth that would have occurred anyhow but it seemed to make an immediate impact on the number of people who came downtown and also people who wanted to live downtown. At least in theory, getting people into a neighborhood 81 days per year ( as opposed to football - 8 times per year) may make an impact.

I'm not arguing with you and would like to see an actual economic analysis for Denver.

Indoor66
10-08-2016, 01:07 PM
You are probably correct. I live in Denver and some would argue that the construction of Coors Field spurred tremendous economic growth in what, historically, had been a skid row neighborhood.

I'm not an economist or urban planner but I think Coors Field did revitalize Denver. Maybe it just spurred a growth that would have occurred anyhow but it seemed to make an immediate impact on the number of people who came downtown and also people who wanted to live downtown. At least in theory, getting people into a neighborhood 81 days per year ( as opposed to football - 8 times per year) may make an impact.

I'm not arguing with you and would like to see an actual economic analysis for Denver.

IRRC that area of Denver revitalization began with the changes to the Larimer Street warehouse district into offices, retail, restaurants and apartments/condominiums. That was in the very late 70's and picked up steam in the early 80's.

Tripping William
10-08-2016, 02:49 PM
To Oly and arnie, we'll have to agree to disagree, I suppose. I was commenting on a post that lamented the absence of "Triadism." To my on-the-ground observation, the 1997 MLB effort was the best shot at something resembling Triadism. Nothing else in the interim has really come close.

As to the Selig comments, I'd be willing to wager those came in 1998 or 1999, when there was a small secondary effort to get an MLB team to Charlotte, after the Triad effort was voted down.

MartyClark
10-08-2016, 03:49 PM
IRRC that area of Denver revitalization began with the changes to the Larimer Street warehouse district into offices, retail, restaurants and apartments/condominiums. That was in the very late 70's and picked up steam in the early 80's.

I moved to Denver in 1982. Larimer Street historic district was a two block gem but there wasn't much development north or west of it. (Downtown Denver is all diagonal streets so directions are a bit confusing) Not many people lived in the downtown or ballpark area.The Rockies played their first two years at Mile High Stadium and set baseball attendance records. Coors Field, I think, was opened in 1993.

That area is now known as Lower Downtown. There wasn't much development there before Coors Field. The area to the north, now known as River North (RINO) was kind of a left over industrial area that is now very trendy. Five Points, to the northeast, was a historically black area that has become quite trendy.

I think there is a strong correlation between the building of Coors Field and subsequent development. Causation remains more elusive. I think much of this development would have occurred anyhow, although later, because Denver is a nice place to live, has good weather, and is generally attractive to young people.

Obviously there are many other factors to consider. In recent years, there has been a strong trend of young, professional people settling in big cities rather than the suburbs. Denver had a court mandated, school busing program starting in the 1970's that probably spurred white flight to the suburbs.

I'm very interested, for lack of a better term, in human geography and the issue of why people move where they do. I think Coors Field was a significant factor in the 1990's and early 2000's development of Denver. That begs the question, of course, of whether the public investment was a good policy.

SilkyJ
10-10-2016, 07:54 PM
And less than an hour from The Gorge Zipline (http://thegorgezipline.com/) - one of the most awesome ziplines around! Hope it's open...

-jk

And even closer to the BMW Driving School (http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Experience/Events/PDS/#virtual) aka "M-School." You get to sample the m3, m5, and m6 in a variety of racing & driving scenarios. Vroom vroom.

Pghdukie
10-11-2016, 03:57 AM
I moved to Denver in 1982. Larimer Street historic district was a two block gem but there wasn't much development north or west of it. (Downtown Denver is all diagonal streets so directions are a bit confusing) Not many people lived in the downtown or ballpark area.The Rockies played their first two years at Mile High Stadium and set baseball attendance records. Coors Field, I think, was opened in 1993.

That area is now known as Lower Downtown. There wasn't much development there before Coors Field. The area to the north, now known as River North (RINO) was kind of a left over industrial area that is now very trendy. Five Points, to the northeast, was a historically black area that has become quite trendy.

I think there is a strong correlation between the building of Coors Field and subsequent development. Causation remains more elusive. I think much of this development would have occurred anyhow, although later, because Denver is a nice place to live, has good weather, and is generally attractive to young people.

Obviously there are many other factors to consider. In recent years, there has been a strong trend of young, professional people settling in big cities rather than the suburbs. Denver had a court mandated, school busing program starting in the 1970's that probably spurred white flight to the suburbs.

I'm very interested, for lack of a better term, in human geography and the issue of why people move where they do. I think Coors Field was a significant factor in the 1990's and early 2000's development of Denver. That begs the question, of course, of whether the public investment was a good policy.
Another very good example is the City of Cleveland. When Art Model moved the Browns to Baltimore, the City went thru a very harsh period. The City was forced to put up Tax-payer funds to finance the new stadium. The economic advantages that went along with the new NFL franchise were a god send for the entire region

Olympic Fan
10-11-2016, 10:53 AM
Every economic study of the issue that I've read (and I've read a lot) suggest that the return on taxpayer investment when building sports stadiums (for multi-millionaires) rarely, if ever returns the investment (in terms of spurred economic growth):

Just to cite a few: The Stanford Institute of Economic Growth: http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

There is an older one from two authors with the Brookings Institute who literally wrote the book on this issue (Sports, Taxes and Stadiums): http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

And from TheMarketplace: https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/business/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities

Key quote:
If you ever had a consensus in economics, this would be it," says Michael Leeds, a sports economist at Temple University. "There is no impact."

Look, I'm a free-spending Democrat, so I usually love spending the taxpayer's money ... but I hate wasting it on gifts for multi-millionaire sports owners.

Pghdukie
10-11-2016, 11:48 AM
Every economic study of the issue that I've read (and I've read a lot) suggest that the return on taxpayer investment when building sports stadiums (for multi-millionaires) rarely, if ever returns the investment (in terms of spurred economic growth):

Just to cite a few: The Stanford Institute of Economic Growth: http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

There is an older one from two authors with the Brookings Institute who literally wrote the book on this issue (Sports, Taxes and Stadiums): http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

And from TheMarketplace: https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/business/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities

Key quote:
If you ever had a consensus in economics, this would be it," says Michael Leeds, a sports economist at Temple University. "There is no impact."

Look, I'm a free-spending Democrat, so I usually love spending the taxpayer's money ... but I hate wasting it on gifts for multi-millionaire sports owners.
You are citing very good,informed articles and it's appreciated. I will respond by asking to consider the St.Louis situation. How much of an impact will the Rams leaving have on that region. It will take years, but it will be interesting. And how long will it take for St Louis to prey on franchises like Jacksonville.

sagegrouse
10-11-2016, 01:12 PM
You are citing very good,informed articles and it's appreciated. I will respond by asking to consider the St.Louis situation. How much of an impact will the Rams leaving have on that region. It will take years, but it will be interesting. And how long will it take for St Louis to prey on franchises like Jacksonville.

Don't you think London has the edge over St. Louis in getting an NFL franchise? After all, it will be hosting NFL games for the foreseeable future.

Olympic Fan
10-11-2016, 05:51 PM
To get back on topic, I just finished booking a hotel room for the first/second round games in Greenville. I got a very reasonable price for three nights near the Greenville airport (nine miles from the arena).

No risk -- I get free cancellation until March 15, so even if by some chance Duke doesn't start in Greenville, I lose nothing.

I only mention this to remind any of you who might want to attend to book now (as long as you can get free cancellation) before the rooms dry up.

PS Games will be Friday, Mar. 17 and Sunday, March 19

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-11-2016, 05:55 PM
Does also look like there are hotels within walking distance of the arena and downtown if that is your interest. Downtown is pretty charming and has great food and beverage options.

Olympic Fan
10-11-2016, 06:07 PM
Does also look like there are hotels within walking distance of the arena and downtown if that is your interest. Downtown is pretty charming and has great food and beverage options.

I found nothing in my price range available downtown. But maybe you have more to spend.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-11-2016, 06:10 PM
I found nothing in my price range available downtown. But maybe you have more to spend.

Oh, I would be coming from Asheville for the day if I can swing it. I didn't mean to impugn your hotel wherewithal - I assure you mine is lesser. Just letting folks know what is out there.

lotusland
10-11-2016, 09:27 PM
As a Palmetto State native and resident who also lived in Charlotte for 10-years, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised for SC to benefit from a NC ban. It's been the other way around for years. Nikki Haley has shown remarkable leadership here. I'm not a Republican and I did not vote for her for governor but I hope I have an opportunity to vote for her in a future election .

ricks68
10-13-2016, 11:11 PM
Oh, I would be coming from Asheville for the day if I can swing it. I didn't mean to impugn your hotel wherewithal - I assure you mine is lesser. Just letting folks know what is out there.

Looks like we will be hosting a lot of beer - drinking fans on the Saturday in between. (Not to mention the astute travelling fans on Thursday and Monday.)😆

ricks

-jk
10-13-2016, 11:21 PM
Looks like we will be hosting a lot of beer - drinking fans on the Saturday in between. (Not to mention the astute travelling fans on Thursday and Monday.)😆

ricks

Ymm, Beer! Or something like that...

-jk

gofurman
10-21-2016, 11:35 PM
My son went to Furman and got married in Greenville. I have missed going there.

Then you have a good son. 😀

I somehow got in Furman (obvious by my name I use). Great school. Not sure who is the host school of the NCAA first two rounds though? Go Duke. Go Paladins !