Dukies in the NBA: 2016-2017 Edition

[huey]

Thought it might be time to start the official Dukies in the NBA thread for this upcoming season. It's still pre-season but several Dukies are having standout games and it'd be nice to get some good news in a new thread.

I'll start off with Seth Curry. Picked up by the Mavs in the off-season he's had a terrific pre-season including yesterday's game with 20 points on 5 three's which earned him this highlight tape:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ehj1JiOmRE

Lots of other Dukies in action around the league and even a Quinn Cook sighting. Hopefully he can latch onto the Pelicans even though they're deep at guard.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Great thread. With so much Duke talent in the NBA, this is a really exciting time. What I'm looking forward to:

-Can Jabari find his jump shot?
-Can Winslow find any offense?
-Can Okafor find any defense?
-Can Tyus be part of a packed rotation with Dunn and Rubio in front of him?
-Can Kyrie build upon a ridiculous last 5 months and help lead the Cavs to another title (with Lebron's guidance. And hopefully some contribution from Love)
-Can Dunleavy beat father time?
-Can Ingram deal with NBA physicality?
-Will Ingram win ROY?
-Can Rodney Hood be the second best player on the second most exciting West Conference team?

So many exciting questions. This will be a great year for Duke basketball in both college and the NBA!

[Ichabod Drain]

-Can Ingram deal with NBA physicality?


I think Brandon will find his own way to deal with NBA physicality...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tOgNm0z1y4

[Billy Dat]

I think Brandon will find his own way to deal with NBA physicality...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tOgNm0z1y4

This is a great drill, one I saw them doing at Team USA practice. The offensive player has a maximum of two dribbles to get off a shot after catching at the elbow. The offensive player stays on as long as he makes the shot. If he misses, the defender goes to offense. BI is using his natural advantages to the max.

[Furniture]

Brilliant! Is it me or has Brandon put on some weight?

[huey]

Great thread. With so much Duke talent in the NBA, this is a really exciting time. What I'm looking forward to:

-Can Jabari find his jump shot?
-Can Winslow find any offense?
-Can Okafor find any defense?
-Can Tyus be part of a packed rotation with Dunn and Rubio in front of him?
-Can Kyrie build upon a ridiculous last 5 months and help lead the Cavs to another title (with Lebron's guidance. And hopefully some contribution from Love)
-Can Dunleavy beat father time?
-Can Ingram deal with NBA physicality?
-Will Ingram win ROY?
-Can Rodney Hood be the second best player on the second most exciting West Conference team?

So many exciting questions. This will be a great year for Duke basketball in both college and the NBA!

Great points. Here's some more player questions:

-Can Quinn latch onto a team?
-Can Lance provide some stability in NY?
-Can Plumlee build on his point guard performance in the Clipper's series and cement himself in Portland?
-Will Okafor be the big traded in Philly?

[Dukeford]

Will Kyle find a decent barber?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Will Kyle find a decent barber?

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/kyle-singler-haircuts/

You can't make this up.....

[gurufrisbee]

6704

[JBDuke]

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/kyle-singler-haircuts/

You can't make this up....

Funniest bit from that article:


Also, before we forget, here’s freshman Singler with “Pyscho T” Tyler Hansbrough. There might not be a paler picture in the whole Getty database.

[dukelifer]

This is a great drill, one I saw them doing at Team USA practice. The offensive player has a maximum of two dribbles to get off a shot after catching at the elbow. The offensive player stays on as long as he makes the shot. If he misses, the defender goes to offense. BI is using his natural advantages to the max.

Unfortunately- struggling tonight. He will get there.

[Bomar]

Had ESPN on as I was getting ready for bed last night. Caught MP3 making a dunk and then a little later blocking a layup by Isaiah Taylor. Was fun to see the big guy!

[Phoenix22]

How about a list: Difficulty: trying to do it by memory...

Kyrie: Champion
JJ: Clippers
Plumlee 1: Bucks
Plumlee 2: Blazers
Plumlee 3: Knicks
Dunleavy: Cavs
Rivers: Clippers
Parker: Bucks
Henderson: Blazers
Thomas: Knicks
Ingram: Lakers
Curry: Mavs
Winslow: Heat
Deng: Heat
Okafor: Sixers
Brand: Sixers
Singler: Thunder
T Jones: Wolves

Edit:
Hood: Jazz
McRoberts: Heat

Cook: Pelican
Kelly: ???
D Jones: ???

= 23...wow!

Please help me if I missed any and I will update.

[fraggler]

How about a list: Difficulty: trying to do it by memory...

Kyrie: Champion
JJ: Clippers
Plumlee 1: Bucks
Plumlee 2: Blazers
Plumlee 3: Knicks
Dunleavy: Cavs
Rivers: Clippers
Parker: Bucks
Henderson: Blazers
Thomas: Knicks
Ingram: Lakers
Curry: Mavs
Winslow: Heat
Deng: Heat
Okafor: Sixers
Brand: Sixers
Singler: Thunder
T Jones: Wolves

Edit:
Hood: Jazz
McRoberts: Heat

Cook: Pelican
Kelly: ???
D Jones: ???

= 23...wow!

Please help me if I missed any and I will update.
Deng is with the Lakers now. D. Jones was with the Cavs on a non guaranteed contract for training camp. Kelly same deal with the Hawks.

[Ichabod Drain]

Deng is with the Lakers now. D. Jones was with the Cavs on a non guaranteed contract for training camp. Kelly same deal with the Hawks.

Henderson is with the Sixers.

[yancem]

Deng is with the Lakers now. D. Jones was with the Cavs on a non guaranteed contract for training camp. Kelly same deal with the Hawks.

And Henderson is with the 76's now.

[Edouble]

And Henderson is with the 76's now.

He is working at the gas station?

[huey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkLiJOr7pfw

[phaedrus]

Jabari suffers minor head injury in rim collision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5pgpyfgBE

[JasonEvans]

Jabari suffers minor head injury in rim collision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5pgpyfgBE

I hate it when I do that ;)

[elvis14]

I hate it when I do that ;)

Man me too, whenever it happens, I have to get that long stick and move the goal back up from the 8' level....:p

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nyknicks/status/784970518625595393/video/1

Look out!!

[elvis14]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nyknicks/status/784970518625595393/video/1

Look out!!

Love the reaction from his teammates. He just brings out the positive in a team.

[nocilla]

Love the reaction from his teammates. He just brings out the positive in a team.

Can someone translate Jennings' reaction?

[huey]

A rare high scoring game form Kyle Singler on the Thunder. Last year continued his downward trend with Oklahoma but hopefully he can put a few games like this together. He might benefit from Duran'ts departure. Leading the team with 17 points on 5/9 and 4/6 3Ps.

Currently watching 3 Dukies in the Blazers-Lakers game. Feels good you'll end up catching at least 1 Dukie no matter what game you watch.

[subzero02]

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/kyle-singler-haircuts/

You can't make this up....

Lord have mercy.... I can't believe what I just saw.

[MChambers]

Can someone translate Jennings' reaction?

No, at least not in a family-oriented forum.

[oakvillebluedevil]

http://www.nba.com/games/20161012/HOUNOP#/boxscore

20 pts, 8 assists, only 1 TO vs. the Rockets in China (game just wrapped).

Rooting really hard for him to find a roster a la Seth

[Billy Dat]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nyknicks/status/784970518625595393/video/1

Look out!!

I've been watching a lot of Marshall as he's been getting plenty of PT in the preseason. This article makes it sound like he'll definitely be on the final roster which is incredible:

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/marshall-plumlee-appears-to-be-a-lock-for-a-roster-spot/205744770

He started the second preseason game against the Nets and he promptly picked up 4 fouls in about 4 minutes. I am not kidding. Even so, he looked good out there as ridiculous as that sounds. Brook Lopez was trying to punk him left and right and MP3 was having none of it...thus the fouls. In the immortal words of color man Clyde Frazier, "The rambunctious neophyte Plumlee needs to understand that the vet Lopez is going to get those calls every time". Also granted, the Nets are beyond depleted. But, against the Wizards the next game Marshall was in for basically the entire fourth quarter and had a vicious dunk in transition right in crunch time of a tight game - a game Lance won by drawing a foul and knocking down a FT with no time left on the clock. His hands, motor, passing, screening and boundless energy are all on full display. It is amazing to think that save for Amile getting hurt, he might be in the army right now.

[MChambers]

Imagine how good Marshall would have been if he'd had five years of big man coaching from Wojo!

[dukelifer]

Quinn with a big night. Leading scorer with 20 pts and 8 assists!

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400899172

[huey]

Quinn with a big night. Leading scorer with 20 pts and 8 assists!

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400899172

I saw a tweet about it last night and was excited to post about it but then the nba.com box score showed him with a DNP. Waiting for the preseason to be over since League Pass and the box scores (according to the King himself) are also acting like it's preseason.

Anyway, excited I get to post a preseason highlight vid from Mr. DawkinsMTA himself of Quinn, showing he's getting some hype:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Sv6VIjXpA&feature=youtu.be

[gwlaw99]

Quinn with a big night. Leading scorer with 20 pts and 8 assists!

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400899172

Not to mention that it was in 21 minutes.

[huey]

A rare high scoring game form Kyle Singler on the Thunder. Last year continued his downward trend with Oklahoma but hopefully he can put a few games like this together. He might benefit from Duran'ts departure. Leading the team with 17 points on 5/9 and 4/6 3Ps.

Currently watching 3 Dukies in the Blazers-Lakers game. Feels good you'll end up catching at least 1 Dukie no matter what game you watch.

And by rare I meant a regular occurrence. Singler adding another 15 points on 5/6 3 point shooting. Would be great if he maintains this level of confidence into the regular season. I haven't been able to see any of the games, but the stats say he's doing well.

[JasonEvans]

And by rare I meant a regular occurrence. Singler adding another 15 points on 5/6 3 point shooting. Would be great if he maintains this level of confidence into the regular season. I haven't been able to see any of the games, but the stats say he's doing well.

Hey, I would love for Kyle to find a significant role on the Thunder this season, but preseason NBA stats are only a tiny, tiny bit more predictive than reports of Nick Horvath tearing it up in pick-up games.

[huey]

Alarmingly athletic

https://youtu.be/tZut8mlFuZs

[fraggler]

Alarmingly athletic

https://youtu.be/tZut8mlFuZs

I know we won the title the year after he left, but man, I would have loved to get one more year out of him at Duke.

[Edouble]

I know we won the title the year after he left, but man, I would have loved to get one more year out of him at Duke.

And we didn't win a game in the NCAAs the year he was here.

Good player, but yeah I don't completely understand your comment. I would not want another year of Jabari, as I would not change a thing about 2015.

[fraggler]

And we didn't win a game in the NCAAs the year he was here.

Good player, but yeah I don't completely understand your comment. I would not want another year of Jabari, as I would not change a thing about 2015.

I liked him as a player and a representative of Duke and wish I could have seen more of him than just one year. This desire has nothing to do with reality and therefore doesn't impact our championship. In fact, in my fantasy, I get to see him play one more year and we still get to win the championship.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I liked him as a player and a representative of Duke and wish I could have seen more of him than just one year. This desire has nothing to do with reality and therefore doesn't impact our championship. In fact, in my fantasy, I get to see him play one more year and we still get to win the championship.

In my fantasy, Duke wins every year. I am married to Kate Upton. I am a billionaire. And I eat nachos every day and don't gain any weight.

I love fantasies.

Going back to the subject, I too like Jabari and the way he presented Duke. But he was such a liability on the defensive end (even moreso than Jahlil).

[Billy Dat]

The Blazers have been on some NBA TV preseason in the last week so I have gotten to see Mason. The bad news, in Game 1 he fouled out in 11 minutes and in Game 2 I saw him pick up his first foul in the first 30 seconds and his second before the end of the first quarter. Take it easy, big fella. The good news is that he continues to play point center for the Blazers, a really interesting roll for him. But, he literally doesn't even look at the basket, so he needs to have a credible dribble drive threat to set up that kick-out.

[Furniture]

The Blazers have been on some NBA TV preseason in the last week so I have gotten to see Mason. The bad news, in Game 1 he fouled out in 11 minutes and in Game 2 I saw him pick up his first foul in the first 30 seconds and his second before the end of the first quarter. Take it easy, big fella. The good news is that he continues to play point center for the Blazers, a really interesting roll for him. But, he literally doesn't even look at the basket, so he needs to have a credible dribble drive threat to set up that kick-out.

I saw his game for a few minutes. Just enough to see him take a jumper about 10 foot away. Wow! Straight in it went!

[DukieInBrasil]

As pre-season continues, Duke alum played last night.
JJ Redick- 18 pts, 4 assists, 7-11 FGs
Austin Rivers - 10pts 4-8 FG, 3/3 a/to
Kyle Singler - 6 pts 3-8 Fg, off the bench
Ryan Kelly - 2 pts, 2 rebs, 1-3 FG
Quinn Cook - DNP
Josh McRoberts, Justise Winslow - DNP
Kyrie Irving - 0pts 0fer shooting
Mike Dunleavy - 4/2/1 pts/rebs/asts 1-2 FG
Dhantay Jones - DNP

Most starters aren't playing many minutes as coaches try to get a look at who is at the bottom of the pecking order to make the team. As such, it's a bummer Quinn didn't get any minutes. Looks like Justise and McBobs didn't play due to rest. Dhantay is a known commodity by now, and a DNP now has essentially no impact on whether he makes a roster this year.
Austin started a game at PG while Nutpuncher Paul was resting for a game, and he played well enough, but went back to the bench last night.
Kyle cooled off considerably after having a couple of insanely good games.

[SCMatt33]

As pre-season continues, Duke alum played last night.
JJ Redick- 18 pts, 4 assists, 7-11 FGs
Austin Rivers - 10pts 4-8 FG, 3/3 a/to
Kyle Singler - 6 pts 3-8 Fg, off the bench
Ryan Kelly - 2 pts, 2 rebs, 1-3 FG
Quinn Cook - DNP
Josh McRoberts, Justise Winslow - DNP
Kyrie Irving - 0pts 0fer shooting
Mike Dunleavy - 4/2/1 pts/rebs/asts 1-2 FG
Dhantay Jones - DNP

Most starters aren't playing many minutes as coaches try to get a look at who is at the bottom of the pecking order to make the team. As such, it's a bummer Quinn didn't get any minutes. Looks like Justise and McBobs didn't play due to rest. Dhantay is a known commodity by now, and a DNP now has essentially no impact on whether he makes a roster this year.
Austin started a game at PG while Nutpuncher Paul was resting for a game, and he played well enough, but went back to the bench last night.
Kyle cooled off considerably after having a couple of insanely good games.

Haven't seen it posted in this thread yet, but Ryan Kelly was cut by the Hawks after the game last night. Assuming he clears waivers, I'd expect him to be in the D-League for the start of the year. With the way the cap fell this summer, most teams were at or even over the roster limit with guaranteed deals and didn't mind giving out at least partial guarantees to guys who would normally not get them. This has made it comparatively difficult to make a roster without a fully guaranteed deal heading into camp.

[Ichabod Drain]

Brandon Ingram had himself a game last night.

21 points on 10 shots
7 reounds
4 assists
2 steals

vs. the Warriors.

I didn't see the game but people online were saying that Walton put the ball in his hands and pretty much let him run the offense.

[luburch]

Friendly reminder to bookmark this page for once the season gets rolling again: http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html

I assume it will still work.

[grad_devil]

Friendly reminder to bookmark this page for once the season gets rolling again: http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html

I assume it will still work.

Thanks for the publicity - I'm assuming it will still work, too! I haven't yet updated it for this season, but it should be ready to go by opening night.

[huey]

Brandon Ingram had himself a game last night.

21 points on 10 shots
7 reounds
4 assists
2 steals

vs. the Warriors.

I didn't see the game but people online were saying that Walton put the ball in his hands and pretty much let him run the offense.

Some highlights. Looking forward to seeing him play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUEQrwMG-QM

[Billy Dat]

MP3 officially made the Knicks!
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/10/21/13361512/the-knicks-made-their-final-roster-cuts-and-kept-ron-baker

Despite his guaranteed contract, the team had said they'd still have cut him if it made sense.

[SCMatt33]

MP3 officially made the Knicks!
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/10/21/13361512/the-knicks-made-their-final-roster-cuts-and-kept-ron-baker

Despite his guaranteed contract, the team had said they'd still have cut him if it made sense.

Yes, They cut Lou Amundson, who actually had more guaranteed money than Marshall. Now, while there's a very high likelihood that Marshall will be on the opening day roster with the Knicks down to 15 and Marshall having significant guaranteed money, it won't be final until Monday as teams can and do keep less than 15 on the opening day roster.

[construe]

Jeff Goodman just tweeted that the Celtics signed Ryan Kelly. Good for him!

[Billy Dat]

Jeff Goodman just tweeted that the Celtics signed Ryan Kelly. Good for him!

"Come to Duke...we got you for life..."

Thanks, Pags Sr.

[SCMatt33]

"Come to Duke...we got you for life..."

Thanks, Pags Sr.

Just as an FYI, it's unlikely that Kelly makes the Celtics roster and this move was likely more about controlling where he went in the D-league as the Hawks don't have an affiliate. Boston has 16 players with at least partially guaranteed deals and that was after cutting draft pick Ben Bentil, who had a partial guarantee of his own. Hopefully I'm wrong, but if not, he certainly made a good choice of organization to join in terms of player development

[JasonEvans]

MP3 officially made the Knicks!
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/10/21/13361512/the-knicks-made-their-final-roster-cuts-and-kept-ron-baker

Despite his guaranteed contract, the team had said they'd still have cut him if it made sense.

Same article also notes the Celtics cut JP Tokoto. I still feel sorry for that kid. He clearly got some bad advice. I hope he goes back and gets his degree.

Great to see Marshall getting a shot. Hope he makes the most of it and embarks on a long NBA career.

[elvis14]

Same article also notes the Celtics cut JP Tokoto. I still feel sorry for that kid. He clearly got some bad advice.

I know what you mean. Once upon a time someone said to him "Go to UNC". That poor kid.

[SCMatt33]

As I guessed this morning, the Celtics cut Ryan Kelly. He will likely start the season with Boston's D-league alliliate.

[SCMatt33]

The cuts continue with roster deadlines looming. Quinn Cook waived by the Pelicans.

[Furniture]

Rasheed waived although it seems it was expected. He's off to The Swarm.

[JasonEvans]

First NBA game of the season had a lot of Dukies!

The Cavs whupped the Knicks. Kyrie led Cleveland with 29 points. Dunleavy had a decent debut with the Cavs, playing 23 minutes, 6th most on the team. He was in the game for a large part of the decisive 3rd quarter run that powered the Cavs to an easy victory. Dun had 4 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, and 3 steals... he filled up the boxscore.

for the Knicks, Lance came off the bench to play 17 minutes. Marshall did not play but is on the 15-man roster.

-Jason "in other NBA news, the Spurs are beating the Warriors by 20 in the 3rd quarter... in Golden State" Evans

[Eternal Outlaw]

Entertaining game in Portland. Sadly Mason was in foul trouble the entire game and after picking up his 4th early the second half the Blazer never went back to him.

Rodney played an outstanding game. 26 points and the Blazers were throwing everything at him and got away with a lot of holding to stick with him as much as they did. He gets a lot of respect from the Blazer fans in the sections I have sat in. He also had a highlight throw down.

Side note is the two teams shot 38 for 38 on free throws.

[DukieInBrasil]

Duke alum had a pretty good opening night in the NBA. 3 games, 5 guys:
MP2- 1-4 FGs, 2pts saddled w/foul trouble all night
Rodney Hood- 9-17 FGs, 26 pts, stat stuffer night in the win
Kyrie Irving- 22pts, 4/0 a/to
Mike Dunleavy- 4 pts, stat stuffer night
Lance Thomas- 1-4 FGs 2 pts
MP3- not active for the game

ION- GSW lost by HUGE at home!!!

[Ichabod Drain]

Duke alum had a pretty good opening night in the NBA. 3 games, 5 guys:
MP2- 1-4 FGs, 2pts saddled w/foul trouble all night
Rodney Hood- 9-17 FGs, 26 pts, stat stuffer night in the win
Kyrie Irving- 22pts, 4/0 a/to
Mike Dunleavy- 4 pts, stat stuffer night
Lance Thomas- 1-4 FGs 2 pts
MP3- not active for the game

ION- GSW lost by HUGE at home!!!

Small note, the Jazz and Hood lost to Portland. Jazz were without Hayward and Favors.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Duke alum had a pretty good opening night in the NBA. 3 games, 5 guys:
MP2- 1-4 FGs, 2pts saddled w/foul trouble all night
Rodney Hood- 9-17 FGs, 26 pts, stat stuffer night in the win
Kyrie Irving- 22pts, 4/0 a/to
Mike Dunleavy- 4 pts, stat stuffer night
Lance Thomas- 1-4 FGs 2 pts
MP3- not active for the game

ION- GSW lost by HUGE at home!!!

Kyrie was Kyrie - offensive force that cannot be stopped. Also, please stop putting big men on Kyrie (ala Prozingas last night); you're just asking for trouble.

So happy that the Warriors lost. I love KD and Klay, but everyone else rubs me the wrong way.

[JasonEvans]

Duke alum had a pretty good opening night in the NBA. 3 games, 5 guys:
MP2- 1-4 FGs, 2pts saddled w/foul trouble all night
Rodney Hood- 9-17 FGs, 26 pts, stat stuffer night in the win
Kyrie Irving- 22pts, 4/0 a/to
Mike Dunleavy- 4 pts, stat stuffer night
Lance Thomas- 1-4 FGs 2 pts
MP3- not active for the game

ION- GSW lost by HUGE at home!!!

Another small correction, Kyrie had 29 points. Maybe you were looking at shot attempts as he had 22 FGAs, but his point total was a team-leading 29.

[DukieInBrasil]

Duke alum had a pretty good opening night in the NBA. 3 games, 5 guys:
MP2- 1-4 FGs, 2pts saddled w/foul trouble all night
Rodney Hood- 9-17 FGs, 26 pts, stat stuffer night in the loss
Kyrie Irving- 29pts, 4/0 a/to
Mike Dunleavy- 4 pts, stat stuffer night
Lance Thomas- 1-4 FGs 2 pts
MP3- not active for the game

ION- GSW lost by HUGE at home!!!

I got sloppy, and had to make some corrections!
Also, Kyrie's performance was even more huger than portrayed, 29 pts on 22 shots...
Also, also, Lebron started the year with 3x double!

[grad_devil]

Friendly reminder to bookmark this page for once the season gets rolling again: http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html

I assume it will still work.


Thanks for the publicity - I'm assuming it will still work, too! I haven't yet updated it for this season, but it should be ready to go by opening night.

Lo and behold, it appears the page still works, with only minor tweaks. I should really document my code better - I'll get to it later, surely. :rolleyes:

Here's a screenshot of what all of you (except for a handful) are missing. So, not much, really.

6771

[elvis14]

Lo and behold, it appears the page still works, with only minor tweaks. I should really document my code better - I'll get to it later, surely. :rolleyes:

Thanks again for the page. Now about that “I’ll go back later and document the code” myth….

I post this as I’m trying to get off DBR and complete my 3rd code review this morning.

[awhom111]

All of our players with rookie scale options have now had them picked up in advance of the deadline at the end of the month. That was no surprise for most of them, but there was slight concern about Tyus I suppose. In terms of which teams filled out their paperwork fastest, Justise was the first player in his draft class to get his third year option picked up and then Jabari was the first player in his draft class to get his fourth year option picked up.

Quinn is betting on himself again this year. News from Europe suggests that he turned down the ~$300k offer from Red Star Belgrade that Nate Wolters eventually took.

[yancem]

Lo and behold, it appears the page still works, with only minor tweaks. I should really document my code better - I'll get to it later, surely. :rolleyes:

Here's a screenshot of what all of you (except for a handful) are missing. So, not much, really.

6771

I've had the page bookmarked for years (although I've had to re-do it a couple of times for some reason). One of the most important pages on the net in my opinion (stat geek being another).

Thanks again for keeping the lights on!!!

[JasonEvans]

A couple Dukies were the plus-minus kings tonight.

The Mavs lost to the Pacers by 9, but in the 16 minutes Seth Curry was on the floor, the Mavs outscored Indiana by 7 points. Seth had 7 points and a team leading 3 steals. The starting SG, Wes Matthews, was 3-16 from the floor and had a team worst -17.

The Heat topped Orlando by 12. The Heat's leader in plus-minus was Justice Winslow with +15. He also had 15 point, 8 boards, and 4 assists... and I'll bet he was the best defensive player on the floor as well.

Meanwhile, Brandon Ingram's first NBA game went well. The Lakers won as he played 24 minutes and scored 9 points (on efficient 4-6 shooting). He was second on the team with a +10.

-Jason "meanwhile, Jah got only 16 minutes for the Sixers... please trade him... please!!" Evans

[Duke79UNLV77]

A couple Dukies were the plus-minus kings tonight.

The Mavs lost to the Pacers by 9, but in the 16 minutes Seth Curry was on the floor, the Mavs outscored Indiana by 7 points. Seth had 7 points and a team leading 3 steals. The starting SG, Wes Matthews, was 3-16 from the floor and had a team worst -17.

The Heat topped Orlando by 12. The Heat's leader in plus-minus was Justice Winslow with +15. He also had 15 point, 8 boards, and 4 assists... and I'll bet he was the best defensive player on the floor as well.

Meanwhile, Brandon Ingram's first NBA game went well. The Lakers won as he played 24 minutes and scored 9 points (on efficient 4-6 shooting). He was second on the team with a +10.

-Jason "meanwhile, Jah got only 16 minutes for the Sixers... please trade him... please!!" Evans

The announcers said Jah was on a minutes limit coming back from his injury. He had only played one game and 8 minutes in preseason. That said, I agree that the Sixers need to trade at least one, and perhaps two, of their power trio of Jah, Embid, and Noel. It's also tough to see Tyus getting a lot of minutes in his situation. I was surprised that Jabari did not get a lot of shots, but I still think he will. Great signs for Winslow's and Hood's progress. Solid start by Ingram. Kyrie is good at basketball.

[luburch]

Seth looked pretty good last night in the time he saw. He fouled out, but a few of the calls were questionable. I tuned into the Bucks game for a few minutes in the 4th quarter, but Jabari was on the bench during that time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

-Jason "meanwhile, Jah got only 16 minutes for the Sixers... please trade him... please!!" Evans

The 16 minutes are around Jah's limit as he comes back from injury. In the minutes that he did play, he was not impressive. Again, he's coming back from injury. But with Embiid clearly the future of that frontcourt, Okafor's role has been significantly reduced. I'm with you - trade Jah. He'd be great with a 3-and-D 4/5, if that exists in the league.

[Billy Dat]

The 16 minutes are around Jah's limit as he comes back from injury. In the minutes that he did play, he was not impressive. Again, he's coming back from injury. But with Embiid clearly the future of that frontcourt, Okafor's role has been significantly reduced. I'm with you - trade Jah. He'd be great with a 3-and-D 4/5, if that exists in the league.

I watched the entire game and it's clear that he is in horrible game shape in terms of his wind, which shouldn't take away from the work he's done to change his body, he looks much slimmer. But, in his first game minutes, he was awesome on the offensive end showing a nasty baseline fake/jumper combo. As he got tired, though, he looked bad, lots of misses around the rim, losing the ball on his drives, etc. Also, in equally limited minutes, Embiid looked freakin amazing. He's huge, fast, quick and was drawing Hakeem comparisons with his low post game. He also nailed a few 3s, was hitting his FTs and was disrupting shots all over the place, and loudly saying, "This guy can't guard me!!!" in Steven Adams grill. The 76er crowd was going berzerk, with good reason. Jah is a tier down from this guy. Embiid fits the modern stretch 5 like a glove, along with KAT, Porzingis, Anthony Davis (nice 50 he put up last night)...shoot out to 3, run like the wind, protect the rim. Jah will either come of bench behind Embiid, or be sent to a team who wants to play a slightly different style than is now popular.


In other 76ers news, I think Gerald was smart to head to Philly. He starts for a team very much on the rise. He really battled Westbrook last night, and Van Gundy said that he is the only defender that Brett Brown will let attempt to guard Westbrook one-on-one. But, down the stretch, he missed a big 3 and got his shot blocked on a game tying attempt with under 10 seconds to play.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I watched the entire game and it's clear that he is in horrible game shape in terms of his wind, which shouldn't take away from the work he's done to change his body, he looks much slimmer. But, in his first game minutes, he was awesome on the offensive end showing a nasty baseline fake/jumper combo. As he got tired, though, he looked bad, lots of misses around the rim, losing the ball on his drives, etc. Also, in equally limited minutes, Embiid looked freakin amazing. He's huge, fast, quick and was drawing Hakeem comparisons with his low post game. He also nailed a few 3s, was hitting his FTs and was disrupting shots all over the place, and loudly saying, "This guy can't guard me!!!" in Steven Adams grill. The 76er crowd was going berzerk, with good reason. Jah is a tier down from this guy. Embiid fits the modern stretch 5 like a glove, along with KAT, Porzingis, Anthony Davis (nice 50 he put up last night)...shoot out to 3, run like the wind, protect the rim. Jah will either come of bench behind Embiid, or be sent to a team who wants to play a slightly different style than is now popular.


In other 76ers news, I think Gerald was smart to head to Philly. He starts for a team very much on the rise. He really battled Westbrook last night, and Van Gundy said that he is the only defender that Brett Brown will let attempt to guard Westbrook one-on-one. But, down the stretch, he missed a big 3 and got his shot blocked on a game tying attempt with under 10 seconds to play.

Agree with everything here. Especially Gerald. His D on Westbrook was amazing, although Westbrook hitting mid-range after mid-range in Hendo's face truly shows the talent that is Westbrook.

Was a fun game. With Embiid and Simmons the future of the 76ers, the team is looking bright.

P.S. I loved the "trust the process" chant from the crowd.

[DukieInBrasil]

Kyrie had another high-scoring game, with 26pts but didn't shoot all that well (10/23 FGs) but shot well from 3 (5/9).
Deng had a nice 2x double with 12/12.
Curry had 8 off the bench on 4/8 FGs.
Rodney and Justise both scored (14, 10 pts rspctvly) on poor shooting (5/14 and 4/14).
Dunleavy, Ingram and Singler scored a total of 8 pts.

[JasonEvans]

Ricky Rubio, PG for the TWolves, has a sprained elbow and is going to miss some time. Minnesota is going to move Kris Dunn into the starting PG role but I have to think this will result in more time/opportunity for Tyus Jones. Supposedly he was drawing some trade interest in the pre-season. If he plays ok backing up Dunn, I would imagine the trade talks will heat up again. He clearly needs to find a team upon which he can play a larger role.

-Jason "Tyus should get 10+ minutes per game until Rubio comes back... make the most of it, Mr. Stones!" Evans

[jv001]

Ricky Rubio, PG for the TWolves, has a sprained elbow and is going to miss some time. Minnesota is going to move Kris Dunn into the starting PG role but I have to think this will result in more time/opportunity for Tyus Jones. Supposedly he was drawing some trade interest in the pre-season. If he plays ok backing up Dunn, I would imagine the trade talks will heat up again. He clearly needs to find a team upon which he can play a larger role.
-Jason "Tyus should get 10+ minutes per game until Rubio comes back... make the most of it, Mr. Stones!" Evans

If I didn't dislike Michael Jordan so much, I would like to see a trade with the Hornets. I hate that I can't root for an NBA team in North Carolina. GoDuke!

[MNBlueDevil4]

Hey BDR board!

I'm new to the community, so I apologize if I'm posting this in the incorrect area.

Last night I had the opportunity to attend the Timberwolves home opener, and luckily it was a blowout so Tyus got some good minutes. He looked strong out there, finishing with 6 assists and only 1 turnover in 19 minutes of work.

(Ricky Rubio was injured, which also opened up more minutes for him.)

I would love the Wolves to keep getting him some time, he could have a very successful NBA career coming off the bench as a backup point guard if he's given the chance!


On a side note, can't wait for season to get started. Hoping to make it down to Cameron for a game this year!

[Mistamassy]

Hey BDR board!

I'm new to the community, so I apologize if I'm posting this in the incorrect area.

Last night I had the opportunity to attend the Timberwolves home opener, and luckily it was a blowout so Tyus got some good minutes. He looked strong out there, finishing with 6 assists and only 1 turnover in 19 minutes of work.

(Ricky Rubio was injured, which also opened up more minutes for him.)

I would love the Wolves to keep getting him some time, he could have a very successful NBA career coming off the bench as a backup point guard if he's given the chance!


On a side note, can't wait for season to get started. Hoping to make it down to Cameron for a game this year!

Let me know if you ever want to watch a game! I'm hard pressed to find Duke fans in Minnesota. I live out in Woodbury, which is too close to Badger-land to even be able to cheer for the Gophers when I need to!

[moonpie23]

welcome to the board......Hope tyus continues to make y'all smile...

[Troublemaker]

Hey BDR board!

I'm new to the community, so I apologize if I'm posting this in the incorrect area.

Last night I had the opportunity to attend the Timberwolves home opener, and luckily it was a blowout so Tyus got some good minutes. He looked strong out there, finishing with 6 assists and only 1 turnover in 19 minutes of work.

(Ricky Rubio was injured, which also opened up more minutes for him.)

I would love the Wolves to keep getting him some time, he could have a very successful NBA career coming off the bench as a backup point guard if he's given the chance!


On a side note, can't wait for season to get started. Hoping to make it down to Cameron for a game this year!

Welcome to the boards. Yeah, it's unfortunate, but the drafting of Kris Dunn probably will end Tyus' stint with his hometown Timberwolves. As Jason Evans mentioned in another thread, these games with Rubio being out are good showcase games for Tyus. If he can show that he's a solid backup PG -- which I agree with you that he IS -- then there will be teams out there in need a solid backup point guard who will trade for him. Hopefully a contender.

[Troublemaker]

Adrian Woj article (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-timberwolves-resisting-trade-overtures-for-ricky-rubio-224943249.html)from a couple of weeks ago about how Minnesota is thinking:


Several teams – including Philadelphia and New Orleans – have shown interest in point guard Tyus Jones, 20, whom the Wolves are more open to moving in the short term, league sources said. Thibodeau has used non-guaranteed veteran John Lucas III – a 33-year-old whom he brought back to his roster several times with the Chicago Bulls – in the preseason point-guard rotation.

Jones’ MVP performance in the NBA’s summer league did improve his standing with teams that have an interest in him as a backup point guard. Jones was the 24th overall pick in the 2015 NBA draft, an early entry who left Duke after helping to lead the Blue Devils to the NCAA championship.

Jones and Sixers center Jahlil Okafor were Duke teammates.

[MNBlueDevil4]

What really made me mad last year was when the Wolves had no chance of making the playoffs, yet 39 year old Andre Miller was coming off the bench before Tyus. It made no sense to me...

[Edouble]

What really made me mad last year was when the Wolves had no chance of making the playoffs, yet 39 year old Andre Miller was coming off the bench before Tyus. It made no sense to me...

I did not see those games, but I would think that the Timbys would be most concerned about the development of their young franchise players: KAT, Andrew Wiggins, and possibly Zach LaVine. If putting veteran Andre Miller on the floor to direct the offense furthers that goal, it makes sense to me. Tyus is a favorite, but he doesn't bring the experience that Andre Miller has.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I did not see those games, but I would think that the Timbys would be most concerned about the development of their young franchise players: KAT, Andrew Wiggins, and possibly Zach LaVine. If putting veteran Andre Miller on the floor to direct the offense furthers that goal, it makes sense to me. Tyus is a favorite, but he doesn't bring the experience that Andre Miller has.

Also, Tyus Jones isn't considered part of the Baby Wolves's long term plans. Players like that don't get put on the trading block (or even rumored trading block).

Tyus is a nice back-up PG, but he's considered superfluous with Rubio (a better passing PG and defensive PG) and Dunn (a scorer, defender, and mature body). If they get rid of Rubio, it makes sense to keep Tyus and try to develop him as a back up.

Unfortunately, Tyus is so limited physically that many don't see a future for him the league. Don't get me wrong, he's tough as nails, has a great shot, and is more than adept at passing, but he'll never be a plus-defender and his ability to drive against the tall trees in the NBA is limited.

[awhom111]

What really made me mad last year was when the Wolves had no chance of making the playoffs, yet 39 year old Andre Miller was coming off the bench before Tyus. It made no sense to me...

Part of the issue is that Sam Mitchell took over as an interim coach and he was in win now mode to try to extend his time in that role. The interim GM finally forced his hand by getting rid of Miller, but that had already taken some time from Tyus. It did not help that the Timberwolves still do not a D League team, which would have given him more time to play and still be involved in the main team.

Obviously with a new front office and coaching staff in place now, they are focused on winning now and making their own decisions about personnel, which means they now have five players who can play point guard.

[DukieInBrasil]

Rodney Hood led the way for Duke alum last night with 22pts (9/16 FGs) and 7rebs
Deng had a solid 2x-double (13/10).
Jahlil and Gerald both had solid games for the lowly 76ers (12 and 11 pts respectively).
Seth Curry shot well (3/4 FGs) for 6 pts off the bench for the Mavs.
Reddick, Rivers and MP2 all shot poorly from the field last night (7/31 FGs combined).
Ingram continues to not make too much impact, although he's not playing poorly (2pts 1/2 FGs and 2rebs).

http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html

[Billy Dat]

I watched most of the second half of Mavs v Bucks to try and get some first this-season looks at Jabari, Seth and Miles.

It was an awful game from an execution standpoint (however it was close and went to OT so there was game tension at least). Neither team could make a shot or run cogent offense. Jabari must have had a good first half but he was terrible in the second, Miles was a non-factor and Seth was pretty absent too. Who was good? The Black Pigeon led the Mavs to a come-from-behind overtime victory. What a bad game to choose to watch!!!!!

[DukieInBrasil]

JJ with his 1st JJ-like game of the season, 20 pts on 9 shots. Austin got 11 points on 10 shots alongside JJ in the win.
Rodney Hood had a big game opposite Gerald and Jahlil, with 18 pts on 13 shots.
Gerald went for 7 while Jahlil had his biggest game of the year with 15 pts on 14 shots.
Justise doesn't want to talk about his game last night.

[flyingdutchdevil]

JJ with his 1st JJ-like game of the season, 20 pts on 9 shots. Austin got 11 points on 10 shots alongside JJ in the win.
Rodney Hood had a big game opposite Gerald and Jahlil, with 18 pts on 13 shots.
Gerald went for 7 while Jahlil had his biggest game of the year with 15 pts on 14 shots.
Justise doesn't want to talk about his game last night.

Winslow doesn't want to talk about shooting. On the year, he's shooting 31% and 15% from 3pt land. Is Winslow the new MKG?

[elvis14]

JJ with his 1st JJ-like game of the season, 20 pts on 9 shots. Austin got 11 points on 10 shots alongside JJ in the win.
Rodney Hood had a big game opposite Gerald and Jahlil, with 18 pts on 13 shots.
Gerald went for 7 while Jahlil had his biggest game of the year with 15 pts on 14 shots.
Justise doesn't want to talk about his game last night.

Although they lost and ESPN showed every point Westbrook scored, didn't Westbrook score a season low 14 points (and shoot like...well like Justise has been shooting)?

[DukieInBrasil]

Although they lost and ESPN showed every point Westbrook scored, didn't Westbrook score a season low 14 points (and shoot like...well like Justise has been shooting)?

it's fair to point out that Justise's defense is what is earning him PT, but 2-13 FG is beyond horrendous.

[luburch]

Looks like Seth and Tyus both played well last night. Kyrie too, but that's expected.

[JasonEvans]

Looks like Seth and Tyus both played well last night. Kyrie too, but that's expected.

Tyus was awesome! His 32 minutes were the 3rd most on the team, well ahead of the 16 minutes played by starting PG Kris Dunn. Dunn, by the way, had a plus minus of -10 while Tyus was +1. The TWolves lost to the Nets by 9 despite Tyus scoring 12 points on 4-7 shooting (2-4 on 3s). He had a team-leading 7 assists as well as 5 rebounds and 5 steals.

Seth had his best day as a pro. 23 points on 9-15 shooting (4-7 from 3) with 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 steals. He had a plus minus of +22, best on the team.

-Jason "showin' they belong in the bigs and that they deserve more opportunity" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

Tyus was awesome! His 32 minutes were the 3rd most on the team, well ahead of the 16 minutes played by starting PG Kris Dunn. Dunn, by the way, had a plus minus of -10 while Tyus was +1. The TWolves lost to the Nets by 9 despite Tyus scoring 12 points on 4-7 shooting (2-4 on 3s). He had a team-leading 7 assists as well as 5 rebounds and 5 steals.

Seth had his best day as a pro. 23 points on 9-15 shooting (4-7 from 3) with 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 steals. He had a plus minus of +22, best on the team.

-Jason "showin' they belong in the bigs and that they deserve more opportunity" Evans

And the babywolves still lost to the lowly Nets. I thought, with a second year KAT and Wiggins, this team would look really good. But they are 1-5, with losses to the Kings, Nuggets, and Nets, three teams without any playoff hopes.

[DukieInBrasil]

And the babywolves still lost to the lowly Nets. I thought, with a second year KAT and Wiggins, this team would look really good. But they are 1-5, with losses to the Kings, Nuggets, and Nets, three teams without any playoff hopes.

Those guys may be really talented but they're so, so young. Not just in age, but in experience. They're all at least 5 years away from their physical primes. It'll take a while before they get it as pros.

[budwom]

Tyus was awesome! His 32 minutes were the 3rd most on the team, well ahead of the 16 minutes played by starting PG Kris Dunn. Dunn, by the way, had a plus minus of -10 while Tyus was +1. The TWolves lost to the Nets by 9 despite Tyus scoring 12 points on 4-7 shooting (2-4 on 3s). He had a team-leading 7 assists as well as 5 rebounds and 5 steals.

Seth had his best day as a pro. 23 points on 9-15 shooting (4-7 from 3) with 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 steals. He had a plus minus of +22, best on the team.

-Jason "showin' they belong in the bigs and that they deserve more opportunity" Evans

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tyus ultimately surpass Mr Dunn...he doesn't physically look all that impressive by NBA standards (Tyus), but we know better...

[DukieInBrasil]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tyus ultimately surpass Mr Dunn...he doesn't physically look all that impressive by NBA standards (Tyus), but we know better...

One of the things we learned about Tyus is that if he's in at crunch time, he's gonna do something extra good. When he's in the flow of the game, he's really good at controlling its tempo and getting the ball to the right people. Prior to last night, his PT had been so low that it was hard for him to find the sweet spot to have much impact on the game. Give him 32 minutes and you get a very solid performance.

[DukieInBrasil]

Seth got the start vs his brother last night, but Steph got the better end of the deal. Seth did rack up 9 assists and 5 steals to go with 10 pts on 4/17 FGs.
Tyus followed up his first game of extended minutes (32) with yet another (31) and got 10 pts on 9 FGs and 5/4/2 ast/reb/stl. and his team won, again. He may beat out Dunn for the starting spot before long...
Jahlil followed up his first good showing offensively with another solid offensive game, going for 15 pts on 11 FGs. He started in Embiid's place as the 76ers lost yet again. Gerald had his best game of the year alongside Jah with 17 pts on 14 shots.
JJ had a modest game (10 pts on 5 shots) in a blowout win, and Austin had another solid game off the bench (9/5/4 pts/ast/reb)
Rodney Hood was Duke alumni leading scorer with 20 on 14 FGs while MP2 was the most atrocious shooter of Duke alumni hitting just 1/12 FGs.
Lance Thomas scored 6 pts on 3/5 FGs in NY win over the Nots.

[phaedrus]

Video highlights of the Curry on Curry action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCPZamwxwec

[DukieInBrasil]

Jabari had (probably) his best game as a pro last night, scoring 33 points on 26 shots. Don't look now, but it looks like he's shooting the 3ball a bit better! (42% for the year vs 30% career)
Justise had a pretty nice offensive game in the loss with 15 pts on 12 shots. He missed a 3 in the final minute that would have tied the game...
None of Deng, Ingram or MP1 did anything of note, scoring 6 pts between the 3 of them.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Jabari had (probably) his best game as a pro last night, scoring 33 points on 26 shots. Don't look now, but it looks like he's shooting the 3ball a bit better! (42% for the year vs 30% career)
Justise had a pretty nice offensive game in the loss with 15 pts on 12 shots. He missed a 3 in the final minute that would have tied the game...
None of Deng, Ingram or MP1 did anything of note, scoring 6 pts between the 3 of them.

Jabari's confidence looks to be really growing, and he appears to be taking a step towards stardom. 19.5 ppg on the year and 23.2 ppg over the past 5 games, with efficient shooting percentages. The Bucks have an interesting team with the Greek Freak and Jabari as a headline duo, but still some holes.

Throw in Rodney Hood at 17.9 ppg on a playoff team, and the first round loss in the tourney in 2014 is that much more of a head-scratcher, though they both had bad shooting nights and there likely won't be a lot more NBA minutes played coming from that team.

[phaedrus]

Jabari had (probably) his best game as a pro last night, scoring 33 points on 26 shots. Don't look now, but it looks like he's shooting the 3ball a bit better! (42% for the year vs 30% career)


This understates his improvement this season (thus far), because 30% is his career percentage including this year. Over 101 games in his first two seasons, Jabari made 13 of 51 three-pointers, or 25%. This season, he is 8 for 19. I don't expect him to maintain 42%, but hitting 1 per game even at 35% would be a huge improvement.

[91_92_01_10_15]

"Plumlee had been sent to the D-League on Tuesday and had 13 points and 11 rebounds during Westchester's win on Wednesday night.

He is expected to join the Knicks in Washington, D.C. on Thursday."

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-recall-marshall-plumlee-from-d-league/208913598

[Eternal Outlaw]

Marshall has checked in for his first regular season NBA minutes

[tbyers11]

Marshall has checked in for his first regular season NBA minutes

Just came to this thread to post that. 5 min with 1 rebound and 1 foul. He is now officially an NBA player. No Moonlight Graham for MP3 😀

[JBDuke]

Marshall has checked in for his first regular season NBA minutes


Just came to this thread to post that. 5 min with 1 rebound and 1 foul. He is now officially an NBA player. No Moonlight Graham for MP3 😀

Apparently, Marshall had a bit of an adventure just getting to MSG for his NBA debut on Sunday:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/marshall-plumlee-winding-road-nba-debut-article-1.2881322

[BigWayne]

Apparently, Marshall had a bit of an adventure just getting to MSG for his NBA debut on Sunday:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/marshall-plumlee-winding-road-nba-debut-article-1.2881322

I just saw this today on the Newsday article. Best line in that one:

When asked how much it costs to ask a cab driver to run a red light, Plumlee said, “Apparently 60 bucks.”

[Eternal Outlaw]

Mason 12 pts, 14 rebs, 8 assists, 1 steal vs New Orleans

CJ McCollum missed a wide open 3 and Ed Davis missed a chip shot at the rim in the final minutes or else he would have gotten to the triple double

[Ichabod Drain]

Tyus played the final 18 minutes for Minnesota and led them to a comeback win over the Suns. They were down by 11 when he came into the game in the 3rd and ended up winning by 13. Kid's just a flat out winner.

[Phoenix22]

I had the pleasure of being at that game and was thrilled just to see him play the final minute of the first half. However, the game really turned around when he game in during the third quarter. There is a reason Thibs kept him in the rest of the way. He had three steals and drew 3 offensive fouls as well and Thibs notices this stuff. Overall Tyus poisted a game high +22. Now the comeback was not all due to Tyus, but damn is he a winner. 4th quarter magic!

Dunn is looking like a bust and as much as I love Rubio, he still can't shoot.



Tyus played the final 18 minutes for Minnesota and led them to a comeback win over the Suns. They were down by 11 when he came into the game in the 3rd and ended up winning by 13. Kid's just a flat out winner.

[DukieInBrasil]

I had the pleasure of being at that game and was thrilled just to see him play the final minute of the first half. However, the game really turned around when he game in during the third quarter. There is a reason Thibs kept him in the rest of the way. He had three steals and drew 3 offensive fouls as well and Thibs notices this stuff. Overall Tyus poisted a game high +22. Now the comeback was not all due to Tyus, but damn is he a winner. 4th quarter magic!

Dunn is looking like a bust and as much as I love Rubio, he still can't shoot.

Rubio is one of the least impressive PGs to me in the NBA, alongside Dellavadova. When it comes to side by side comparison of stats, Tyus is destroying Dunn this year, and he's younger too. Jones is not a PG in the mold of Westbrook, but he doesn't need to be. Tyus will fill out some more, but using brute force and explosiveness is not his game. Cerebral ball and making the small, winning-play details is his game.

[NSDukeFan]

Rubio is one of the least impressive PGs to me in the NBA, alongside Dellavadova. When it comes to side by side comparison of stats, Tyus is destroying Dunn this year, and he's younger too. Jones is not a PG in the mold of Westbrook, but he doesn't need to be. Tyus will fill out some more, but using brute force and explosiveness is not his game. Cerebral ball and making the small, winning-play details is his game.

The only PG anywhere near the mold of Westbrook might be LeBron?

[DukieInBrasil]

The only PG anywhere near the mold of Westbrook might be LeBron?

i guess it's a bit hyperbolic to compare others to a perhaps unique player (Westbrook), but i was just trying to point out that Tyus doesn't need to be compared to any other players because he can be seen as being successful doing what he does. He might not reach all-NBA level with his style, but, by definition, not everyone does.

[MNBlueDevil4]

Tyus played the final 18 minutes for Minnesota and led them to a comeback win over the Suns. They were down by 11 when he came into the game in the 3rd and ended up winning by 13. Kid's just a flat out winner.

Tyus played the whole 4th quarter once again last night for the Wolves. Ricky Rubio really seems to be in Coach Thib's doghouse (He sat the whole 4th quarter for the 3rd straight game.)

[Ichabod Drain]

Tyus played the whole 4th quarter once again last night for the Wolves. Ricky Rubio really seems to be in Coach Thib's doghouse (He sat the whole 4th quarter for the 3rd straight game.)

I haven't seen the games but from looking at the box score and following people on Twitter, it seems like Tyus barely plays in the first half if at all. Then Thibs wants him to play the whole 4th quarter? Minny has a very good young core, would be nice if they just let Tyus grow with that core instead of this flip flopping thing they're doing. I'm sure it's a big discussion in their front office as well.

[MNBlueDevil4]

I haven't seen the games but from looking at the box score and following people on Twitter, it seems like Tyus barely plays in the first half if at all. Then Thibs wants him to play the whole 4th quarter? Minny has a very good young core, would be nice if they just let Tyus grow with that core instead of this flip flopping thing they're doing. I'm sure it's a big discussion in their front office as well.

I've been to 3 Wolves games already this year, and I'm just really confused. It's an odd team to watch. Sometimes it's the one of the funnest teams in the league, and then other nights you're reminded why they have the longest playoff drought in the NBA.

Last night I was able to also see Rodney Hood play as well though which was fun.

[DukieInBrasil]

I've been to 3 Wolves games already this year, and I'm just really confused. It's an odd team to watch. Sometimes it's the one of the funnest teams in the league, and then other nights you're reminded why they have the longest playoff drought in the NBA.

Last night I was able to also see Rodney Hood play as well though which was fun.

Got any insight to the Dunn vs Tyus for backup PG situation?
Statistically speaking, Tyus is playing very slightly fewer minutes this year than last, yet all of his shooting stats have improved, FG%, 3FG%, FT%, EFG%. His apg are up, his tpg are even (so his a/to has improved). Seems that he is learning and adapting to playing in the NBA, yet MINN seemed intent on handing his job to Dunn. In the last few games Tyus has been getting more minutes than Dunn, so maybe Tyus has the upper hand at the moment.

[JasonEvans]

There's apparently growing talk that the TWolves could trade for Luol Deng (http://en.yibada.com/articles/175495/20161126/nba-trade-rumors-zach-lavine-come-home-la-lakers-via.htm). The Lakers would love to get Zach LaVine in the deal, though I doubt Minny deals him. He may be their brightest young star.

Regarding the above conversation about Tyus, it is worth noting that LaVine often serves as the guy who initiates the scoring plays for the TWolves (he had 8 assists last night and often gets 3+ assists in a game), so he's sorta a PG too.

-Jason "between LaVine, Wiggins, and Towns the Wiolves have the best young core in the NBA... a 'pass first' PG who can keep defenses honest and play D should be a huge asset for them" Evans

[Billy Dat]

This is a good local take on the Tyus discussion you guys have initiated
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/28/timberwolves-tyus-jones-only-playing-late-critical-minutes/

[sagegrouse]

This is a good local take on the Tyus discussion you guys have initiated
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/28/timberwolves-tyus-jones-only-playing-late-critical-minutes/

Money quote:

For the most part, Jones has taken advantage of his opportunities. He’s the team leader in plus-minus, as the Wolves have outscored opponents by 50 points when Jones is on the floor. That’s an impressive figure considering Jones is averaging 15 minutes a contest and hasn’t played in four games.

“It’s a part of the business, so you’ve got to be ready at all times,” Jones said. “No matter the situation, no matter what happens, you never know what’s going to happen in the game or what situation it may be, so you’ve got to stay locked in at all times.”

[elvis14]

This is a good local take on the Tyus discussion you guys have initiated
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/28/timberwolves-tyus-jones-only-playing-late-critical-minutes/

Last paragraph or so is a quote from Tyus. It's little wonder why we love this kid (could you imagine Jones as a Jr on this year's Duke team?):

“Coach knows what he’s doing and he’s in control,” Jones said. “So no matter what he wants, if he wants me to play zero minutes, I’m going to be the best teammate I can be and help all the guys out with what I see and help cheer them on from the bench. If he wants me in the game in the fourth quarter, I’m going to do my best to get guys in the right spots, play defense, knock down open shots and do whatever takes to help this team win.
“That’s what it’s all about,” Jones said, “everybody doing their part to the best of their ability.”

[DukieInBrasil]

This is a good local take on the Tyus discussion you guys have initiated
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/28/timberwolves-tyus-jones-only-playing-late-critical-minutes/

thanks for that link! It sounds like Thibs values what Tyus does and knows exactly how he wants to use him. It just seems odd that the qualities admired about him don't get him more in-game flow minutes as well.
I think Tyus's very cerebral game won't get as many highlights for him, but maybe for others via lobs, P&R pass-for-dunks etc. It's a bit early in his career but Tyus's game may one day evoke memories of John Stockton, particularly if MINN can keep KAT and/or Wiggins. Great ball control, quality passer, solid spot-up shooter and killer game-closing instincts.

[Ichabod Drain]

Last paragraph or so is a quote from Tyus. It's little wonder why we love this kid (could you imagine Jones as a Jr on this year's Duke team?):


I would of been happy just to have him as a sophomore last year. With him back and if Amile hadn't gotten hurt we would have won a lot more games last year. (I know... Ifs buts... candy, nuts... something something Christmas)

[kAzE]

I'm going to the Bucks/Cavs game tonight in Milwaukee to see LeBron, Kyrie, and Jabari! It'll be my first time catching LeBron in person :D

Unfortunately . . . it also means watching the Michigan St. game on replay, but I'll deal with it.

[Ichabod Drain]

I'm going to the Bucks/Cavs game tonight in Milwaukee to see LeBron, Kyrie, and Jabari! It'll be my first time catching LeBron in person :D

Unfortunately . . . it also means watching the Michigan St. game on replay, but I'll deal with it.

Mike Dunleavy says hi as well.

[kAzE]

Mike Dunleavy says hi as well.

Sure, it'll be good to see Mike (and Miles Plumlee too), but I'd be kidding myself if I said I was driving out to Milwaukee after work to see those guys play ;)

Miles unfortunately seems to have fallen behind John Henson in the rotation.

[dukelifer]

Sure, it'll be good to see Mike (and Miles Plumlee too), but I'd be kidding myself if I said I was driving out to Milwaukee after work to see those guys play ;)

Miles unfortunately seems to have fallen behind John Henson in the rotation.

Marshall got big minutes- 4 pts 5 bounds in a close win- not a blow out

[Billy Dat]

Marshall got big minutes- 4 pts 5 bounds in a close win- not a blow out

This topic has inspired a whole separate thread, but since it was against the TWolves I thought it wiser to comment here due to the recent Tyus discussion.

I watched the whole game, Joakim Noah is hurt so Marshall is with the big squad (he's been going back and forth between the L and the D-League). In my opinion, he was fantastic! All Duke big guys do is set screens? Yeah, for some of them, that is true. And, you know what, that's how some big guys make careers in the NBA. Marshall continually sprung Brandon Jennings loose with high screens that propelled the second unit to push a close game to a 17 point 4th quarter lead (which the starters nearly coughed away, but that is besides the point). Marshall was a real presence doing what you expect, hard screens, crashing the boards, and doing everything he could to bother KAT (which no one did too well, he had 47!)

Tyus did make his first appearance with 3 to go in the 3rd, but he literally touched the ball once over 5-6 minutes and then he was gone again. They didn't have him handling the ball, he was standing in the corner trying to stretch the D for others. It was a nothing night for him.

The two teams play again Friday/tomorrow. I don't know if it will be shown nationally but it is fun to watch KAT and Porzingis who are both playing very well. They don't match-up often, but they had a few epic collisions in this one.

[mkirsh]

Good game on TNT right now. At the half JJ leads the Clips with 21 (despite missing a FT), while Kyrie leads the Cavs with 17.

[JBDuke]

Nice article on JJ's value to the Clippers. I didn't realize this was a walk year for him.

http://www.fanragsports.com/nba/j-j-redick-looks-better-ever/

[Willy2351]

Great article on JJ! Thanks for posting it!

[moonpie23]

love reading about JJ.....he done good...

[dukelifer]

Nice article on JJ's value to the Clippers. I didn't realize this was a walk year for him.

http://www.fanragsports.com/nba/j-j-redick-looks-better-ever/
Walk year? Or get the big bucks year? With the contracts going around lately- he should get 14M or more a year.

[freshmanjs]

This one probably hurt

Ouch (https://vine.co/v/5QDjDxWLMnF)

[Faison1]

This one probably hurt

Ouch (https://vine.co/v/5QDjDxWLMnF)

Bummer.

I was literally thinking of Jah today. He's one of the many cases that could have really benefited from a couple more years in school.

Do you think any of these guys come back in the summer to work on their D?

[BD80]

Bummer.

I was literally thinking of Jah today. He's one of the many cases that could have really benefited from a couple more years in school.

Do you think any of these guys come back in the summer to work on their D?

It is interesting that Jahlil and Jabari are considered two of the worst defenders in the NBA.

[DukieInBrasil]

It is interesting that Jahlil and Jabari are considered two of the worst defenders in the NBA.

Jahlil's reputation may be somewhat undeserved, as he blocks shot at a pretty good rate. I think part of his reputation comes from being a pretty poor rebounder for a C, as well as the difference between his offensive and defensive presence. Most everyone thinks he's got lots of offensive potential, and since his D is not really close to his O, he gets maligned for it.
I've only seen him play a little in the NBA and he has never looked like a good team defender, and he can get burned 1-on-1. I would say he is a net negative defender, but the worst?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Jahlil's reputation may be somewhat undeserved, as he blocks shot at a pretty good rate. I think part of his reputation comes from being a pretty poor rebounder for a C, as well as the difference between his offensive and defensive presence. Most everyone thinks he's got lots of offensive potential, and since his D is not really close to his O, he gets maligned for it.
I've only seen him play a little in the NBA and he has never looked like a good team defender, and he can get burned 1-on-1. I would say he is a net negative defender, but the worst?

This is from a 76ers blog. It's really scathing of Jahlil's defensive performance: http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/11/8/13559540/jahlil-okafor-lack-of-defensive-awareness-appalling-duke-nba-nerlens-noel-center-sixers-76ers-embiid

Honestly, I don't think Okafor has the capability nor the desire to play defense. Coach K made him servicable at D, but that's because Coach K is the best motivator in the game.

[kAzE]

This is from a 76ers blog. It's really scathing of Jahlil's defensive performance: http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/11/8/13559540/jahlil-okafor-lack-of-defensive-awareness-appalling-duke-nba-nerlens-noel-center-sixers-76ers-embiid

Honestly, I don't think Okafor has the capability nor the desire to play defense. Coach K made him servicable at D, but that's because Coach K is the best motivator in the game.

He's basically Al Jefferson, who has made it work for 12 NBA seasons now . . . Jahlil just needs to find the right team for him. Unfortunately, stretch centers who can play D are the new hotness, and demand for Jah's services isn't very high. Jah was just born into the wrong era.

[JBDuke]

Nice dunk from Mr. Parker on Robin Lopez:

https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/809573436498608128?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=9f43e923e71445748d5cc299aea8c16d&uid=9873292&nid=244+272699392

[UrinalCake]

Watching Lakers vs. 76ers in an otherwise meaningless game except for Duke purposes. Ingram really struggling with his shot. Oak is playing the 4 next to Embiid, they have had some nice plays together. Really hope he can get traded to a team that would better use his abilities. Henderson playing the role of savvy vet.

[DukieInBrasil]

Josh McRoberts had a pretty atrocious start to the season, after returning from an injury. His last 5 games however have been pretty good, especially from 3 where he's 50%. Averaging nearly 8pts, 4+rpg and 2.8apg <1tpg. He's starting but not playing even half the total minutes.
Luol Deng has had a pretty slow start to the year, at least on O. Overall, the Lakers are much better than last year, particularly on D, and Deng is a + defender. His teammate, Brandon Ingram has gotten praise for his defense so far, but his shot has been really shaky from the field.
Also returning from injury to show pretty good game is Jahlil Okafor. In his last 3 games he's at 15/7 and is shooting 64% FGs and 81% FTs.
One of my favorite success stories for Duke alum is Seth Curry, who also had a rather weak start to the year, even though he did get a few starts for the injury-depleted and terrible Mavs. In his last 5 games he's averaging 7.2/3.6 p/apg on 47% FG and 50% 3Fgs. Solid.

[brlftz]

I'm hoping Ingram's start is just a repeat from last year when his shot was off early as well. He looks good, just not making shots.

ETA: Good night for Winslow, too - 15 pts on 6/12 including 1-1 on 3s. Another guy that's been slumping.

[juise]

Hood with the game-winning three in transition with less than a second remaining. Seth looked good in this game, creating shots and getting assists. Harry Barnes can't handle the inbounds pass that would have given him a chance to tie the game.

[JetpackJesus]

Hood with the game-winning three in transition with less than a second remaining. Seth looked good in this game, creating shots and getting assists. Harry Barnes can't handle the inbounds pass that would have given him a chance to tie the game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0s6D8Bqhg8

Love that shimmy from Hood after the make.

P.S. What is going on with those warmup shirts the Jazz bench players are wearing?

[Isaac Sours]

P.S. What is going on with those warmup shirts the Jazz bench players are wearing?

Multiple teams around the league have been wearing vibrant/loud/colorful warmups in honor of Craig Sager.

[Isaac Sours]

ETA: Good night for Winslow, too - 15 pts on 6/12 including 1-1 on 3s. Another guy that's been slumping.

Isn't he coming off a wrist injury? That might explain some of it.

[Indoor66]

I'm hoping Ingram's start is just a repeat from last year when his shot was off early as well. He looks good, just not making shots.

ETA: Good night for Winslow, too - 15 pts on 6/12 including 1-1 on 3s. Another guy that's been slumping.

I don't know how Winslow is slumping. He was out for a month with a wrist injury and just played his first or second game back and had the above stat line. That is not slumping! :mad::cool:

[jipops]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0s6D8Bqhg8

Love that shimmy from Hood after the make.

P.S. What is going on with those warmup shirts the Jazz bench players are wearing?

Seth Curry with a solid 13 to go with 4 assists in that game as well. He's definitely playing like he belongs.

[brlftz]

I don't know how Winslow is slumping. He was out for a month with a wrist injury and just played his first or second game back and had the above stat line. That is not slumping! :mad::cool:

Prior to his injury he had been having a terrible year from the field. Right now he's at .345 for the year and .241 from 3. That's a slump

[JetpackJesus]

Multiple teams around the league have been wearing vibrant/loud/colorful warmups in honor of Craig Sager.

I just saw a photo this morning of some 76ers players wearing similar shirts and realized it must be to honor something. Thanks for clarifying!

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't know how Winslow is slumping. He was out for a month with a wrist injury and just played his first or second game back and had the above stat line. That is not slumping! :mad::cool:

Pre injury, Winslow has really shot poorly from the field. The dude hasn't been able to shoot accurately yet in the NBA.

[jimrowe0]

Brandom Ingram flurted with a triple double today. 9 points, 10 boards, and 9 assists

[MChambers]

A WSJ article today (subscription needed) argues that from a statistical point of view, in terms of probability of winning, Kyrie Irving's shot in game 7 last season was the biggest NBA shot ever. Some interesting stuff on how tough a shot it was, in part because Irving dribbled for so long:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biggest-shot-in-nba-history-1482235610

Yes, I know this really belongs in last season's thread, but I didn't feel like dredging it up.

[brevity]

A WSJ article today (subscription needed) argues that from a statistical point of view, in terms of probability of winning, Kyrie Irving's shot in game 7 last season was the biggest NBA shot ever. Some interesting stuff on how tough a shot it was, in part because Irving dribbled for so long:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biggest-shot-in-nba-history-1482235610

Yes, I know this really belongs in last season's thread, but I didn't feel like dredging it up.

At least you didn't create a new thread, like:

The Biggest Shot in NBA History (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39088)

Greatest shot in NBA History (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39089)

I'm impressed DBR members subscribe to WSJ, and less impressed they don't read free DBR.

[MrPoon]

Jabari was amazing tonight. LBJ in the end had more points and boards but statistically neck and neck. JP did miss two late FTs to tie game. Dukeies combined for 28 Irving, Parker 30, Dunlevy 3. Fun game to watch. Ohio braodcast team called Parker an "All Star" in the making.

This James kid is fairly good.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Jabari was amazing tonight. LBJ in the end had more points and boards but statistically neck and neck. JP did miss two late FTs to tie game. Dukeies combined for 28 Irving, Parker 30, Dunlevy 3. Fun game to watch. Ohio braodcast team called Parker an "All Star" in the making.

This James kid is fairly good.

What drives me crazy is how Parker - in college, coming into the draft, and in the NBA - isn't seen as athletic. Well, there aren't many 6'8" in the NBA who have the explosiveness and the hops that Jabari has. Jabari had a ton of baby fat in college and during his first year in the NBA, which probably explains why many thought he wasn't athletic, but he's slimmed down and even more explosive. (Side note: if seems very challenging to have baby fat if you're an athlete who doesn't drink booze. I guess Jabari bars should be renamed fat bombs.)

Once he gets a really consistent jump shot, he'll be a top offensive player in the NBA (I've given up hope on Jabari's D. I don't think he gets it).

[Ichabod Drain]

Mason went for 27 points 13 rebounds and five assists last night. Unfortunately it was in a loss to Sacramento where Boogie went for 55 and 13. Mason destroyed Cousins on a dunk but it didn't count because he got a tech for forearming/putting a hand in Cousins' face while doing it.

There was a weird sequence where Cousins was ejected then unejected. After the game in an on court interview Cousins went on a rant about the refs and there was a vague statement about a player on Portland that a lot of people thought was a diss at Plumlee (though some say it was Meyers Leonard). He also said later off the court that "Mason been dunking on me since high school" and "I love Mason, he is a hell of a player."

Weird night.

[elvis14]

Mason went for 27 points 13 rebounds and five assists last night. Unfortunately it was in a loss to Sacramento where Boogie went for 55 and 13. Mason destroyed Cousins on a dunk but it didn't count because he got a tech for forearming/putting a hand in Cousins' face while doing it.

There was a weird sequence where Cousins was ejected then unejected. After the game in an on court interview Cousins went on a rant about the refs and there was a vague statement about a player on Portland that a lot of people thought was a diss at Plumlee (though some say it was Meyers Leonard). He also said later off the court that "Mason been dunking on me since high school" and "I love Mason, he is a hell of a player."

Weird night.

They actually did count the 2 points when Mason got T'd up for hitting Boogie. Cousins game, was fantastic. Cousins attitude, was not. He gets T'd up more times than anyone and blames everyone but himself. I suspect that the 2nd T on him last night would have stood on it's own but since he already had 1 Tech they rescinded it so he wouldn't be thrown out of the game. Refs probably did the right thing but it could easily be argued either way.

I know they played together on team USA but it was pretty cool and a little surprising to hear Cousins shift his attitude and rhetoric to give a few complements to Mason.

[MrPoon]

What drives me crazy is how Parker - in college, coming into the draft, and in the NBA - isn't seen as athletic. Well, there aren't many 6'8" in the NBA who have the explosiveness and the hops that Jabari has. Jabari had a ton of baby fat in college and during his first year in the NBA, which probably explains why many thought he wasn't athletic, but he's slimmed down and even more explosive. (Side note: if seems very challenging to have baby fat if you're an athlete who doesn't drink booze. I guess Jabari bars should be renamed fat bombs.)

Once he gets a really consistent jump shot, he'll be a top offensive player in the NBA (I've given up hope on Jabari's D. I don't think he gets it).

No question Parker carried a bit of extra weight, I think some of that was from his HS injury. I still remember shaking my head about the video on GODuke of him bringing the kids camping out his secret recipe desert. Great that he was so invested in the community and the school, but may have explained other aspects. As a Denver Nugget fan, I see a lot of young Carmello in JP's game with more athleticism, and perhaps the same... commitment to D. I wouldn't give up there, Labron scored a ton of points last night but they were on the type of long shots that you want Labron to take. He just made them. But on the year, Parker hasn't been much of a stopper. But that is also Kidd's style of play. We'll see, Parker is a whopping 21. He may have 15 more years or so to figure out that D is what differentiates the great ones. Still REALLY fun to watch his star shine.

[mkirsh]

What drives me crazy is how Parker - in college, coming into the draft, and in the NBA - isn't seen as athletic. Well, there aren't many 6'8" in the NBA who have the explosiveness and the hops that Jabari has. Jabari had a ton of baby fat in college and during his first year in the NBA, which probably explains why many thought he wasn't athletic, but he's slimmed down and even more explosive. (Side note: if seems very challenging to have baby fat if you're an athlete who doesn't drink booze. I guess Jabari bars should be renamed fat bombs.)

Once he gets a really consistent jump shot, he'll be a top offensive player in the NBA (I've given up hope on Jabari's D. I don't think he gets it).

I agree that Jabari's athleticism is under-appreciated. Part of it was his weight, but I think the other part of it is that he is very skilled, so he often is using technique, footwork, positioning, change of pace, etc, and doesn't use his athleticism at full throttle all the time the way someone like Giannis does. Almost like he moves in slow motion at times. And then after a few step back mid range jumpers and post spin moves, Jabari will drive down the lane and throw down a monster dunk and remind everyone of his explosiveness.

[DukieInBrasil]

First:
Last night several Duke alums had huge nights, several had solid nights and a few had meh nights.
Kyrie and Jabari combined to shoot 22/37 FGs and 58 pts. Kyrie also added 13 assists. Those were 2 awesome performances.
Seth and Mason had solid games with 12 and 10 points respectively.
Dunleavy and MP1 each scored 5 points. MP1 has been racking up DNPs lately, so it was nice to see him play effectively in a highly competitive game.

Second:
I got to attend the Pelicans vs. Thunder game last night and it was a very tight game right up until the end. Westbrook is incredible and got a 2x-double, and Anthony Davis was pretty awesome as well, also a 2x-double. I was bummed that Singler didn't play.
I'll be going to the Pelicans vs Mavericks game next week, so i'm looking forward to seeing Seth play!

[sagegrouse]

Big night for Justise Winslow in a win over the Lakers: 23 points and 13 rebounds

[dukelifer]

What drives me crazy is how Parker - in college, coming into the draft, and in the NBA - isn't seen as athletic. Well, there aren't many 6'8" in the NBA who have the explosiveness and the hops that Jabari has. Jabari had a ton of baby fat in college and during his first year in the NBA, which probably explains why many thought he wasn't athletic, but he's slimmed down and even more explosive. (Side note: if seems very challenging to have baby fat if you're an athlete who doesn't drink booze. I guess Jabari bars should be renamed fat bombs.)

Once he gets a really consistent jump shot, he'll be a top offensive player in the NBA (I've given up hope on Jabari's D. I don't think he gets it).
He would have had a nice senior year this year at Duke ;)

[JasonEvans]

He would have had a nice senior year this year at Duke ;)

He'd be starting but Winslow, Ingram, and Tatum might be really eating into his minutes.

[DukieInBrasil]

He'd be starting but Winslow, Ingram, and Tatum might be really eating into his minutes.

Can you imagine Tyus running the show with those guys on the wings, Jah as the C, Amile at the 4, Giles as the back up and Grayson, Matt and Luke on the bench?!?!?! We certainly wouldn't have many other players to stash on the bench with those 11 guys!!!!

[jimsumner]

He'd be starting but Winslow, Ingram, and Tatum might be really eating into his minutes.

Nah. Parker would be the 4. Those other guys would be fighting for PT at the 3.

[MChambers]

Nah. Parker would be the 4. Those other guys would be fighting for PT at the 3.

I think we really could dispense with positions with that lineup!

[Indoor66]

I think we really could dispense with positions with that lineup!

We already do.

[tbyers11]

Great article (https://theringer.com/justise-winslows-organizing-principle-f63def0edac9#.l6uko491a) about Justise Winslow from The Ringer. They focus on how much his defense and intangibles mean to Miami. They describe his spatial awareness as Shane Battier-like (high praise). They also highlight what might have been the best offensive game of his career last night a 23-point, 13-rebound, three-assist, and four-steal performance in a 115–107 comeback victory over the Lakers. If his offensive game continues process look out.

[NSDukeFan]

Nah. Parker would be the 4. Those other guys would be fighting for PT at the 3.

How many minutes would the other guys play small ball at the 4 though? :p


How many posts before a thread is supposed to become about minutes?

[jimsumner]

How many minutes would the other guys play small ball at the 4 though? :p


How many posts before a thread is supposed to become about minutes?

Well, with Parker, Oakafor, Jefferson, Jeter, Giles, Bolden, Vrankovic and DeLaurier available for the 4/5 spots, how often would Duke need to go small?

As an aside, exactly how many scholarships is Duke allowed in this fantasy? Hopefully, at least as many as that great 2000 team with Carrawell, Brand, Battier, Avery, J. Williams, Burgess, James, Maggette, Boozer, Dunleavy, Sanders, Horvath, Christensen, and Buckner or that 2003 team when seniors Williams, Boozer, Dunleavy, D. Jones, Sanders, Horvath and Buckner blended with freshmen Redick, S. Williams, Randolph, Dockery, Thompson and Melchionni, along with Maggette and Ewing.

Good times. I always enjoy reliving those years.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How many minutes would the other guys play small ball at the 4 though? :p


How many posts before a thread is supposed to become about minutes?

I think we can accurately assume that Winslow, Tyus, Parker, Oak, Grayson, Luke, Amile, Tatum would all get 50+ minutes per game. At least until Harry is back in game form.

[NSDukeFan]

Well, with Parker, Oakafor, Jefferson, Jeter, Giles, Bolden, Vrankovic and DeLaurier available for the 4/5 spots, how often would Duke need to go small?

As an aside, exactly how many scholarships is Duke allowed in this fantasy? Hopefully, at least as many as that great 2000 team with Carrawell, Brand, Battier, Avery, J. Williams, Burgess, James, Maggette, Boozer, Dunleavy, Sanders, Horvath, Christensen, and Buckner or that 2003 team when seniors Williams, Boozer, Dunleavy, D. Jones, Sanders, Horvath and Buckner blended with freshmen Redick, S. Williams, Randolph, Dockery, Thompson and Melchionni, along with Maggette and Ewing.

Good times. I always enjoy reliving those years.

Those were some of coach K's deepest teams. He played a 7&1/2 man rotation, I believe.

[devildeac]

How many minutes would the other guys play small ball at the 4 though? :p


How many posts before a thread is supposed to become about minutes?

Well less than #173 so you're late.

;)

[Indoor66]

I think we can accurately assume that Winslow, Tyus, Parker, Oak, Grayson, Luke, Amile, Tatum would all get 50+ minutes per game. At least until Harry is back in game form.

Not sure about that. We need a separate thread on the issue. Also, lots of advanced stats.

[niveklaen]

Matt would have a spot in the starting lineup.

[NSDukeFan]

Well less than #173 so you're late.

;)

I keep forgetting when that is. At what point do we start comparing Duke's lineup to its former rival's. And then when is it during the thread that Wheat chimes in that Roy is coaching for March and Britt and James are very good players?

[devildeac]

I keep forgetting when that is. At what point do we start comparing Duke's lineup to its former rival's. And then when is it during the thread that Wheat chimes in that Roy is coaching for March and Britt and James are very good players?

About the same time the (bad vs good) puns invade and get moved to a separate thread. ;)

[JasonEvans]

Kyrie Irving had been ridiculously good in the fourth quarter against Golden State. Stunning passes and amazing finishes. He's truly cementing himself as one of the best players in the NBA.

Jason " his game winning fadeaway was simply impossible to stop " Evans

[Selover]

Kyrie with another dagger to the Warriors!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kyrie with another dagger to the Warriors!

Cavs Warriors is the best basketball right now. I normally like college, but gimme Cavs Warriors any day of the week and twice on Sunday

[moonpie23]

Kyrie with another dagger to the Warriors!absolutely love it.

it was not looking good for the cavs....they stayed tough and the warriors wilted! awesome game

[dukelifer]

Cavs Warriors is the best basketball right now. I normally like college, but gimme Cavs Warriors any day of the week and twice on Sunday

A lot of talent on the floor. That is basketball at it's best. Great D- great passing and clutch shooting. Even though the Cavs did not have a great shooting night- it was exciting basketball. The league definitely would like to see those teams in the finals again.

[duke4ever19]

I bet one of my uncles that Draymond Green would get a technical foul in this game.

We were at 9 minutes into the first quarter and guess who owes me drinks next Friday? :cool:

[devildeac]

I bet one of my uncles that Draymond Green would get a technical foul in this game.

We were at 9 minutes into the first quarter and guess who owes me drinks next Friday? :cool:

Do I need to choose the 4 pack or 6er like I've done for flyingdutchdevil? ;)

[duke4ever19]

Do I need to choose the 4 pack or 6er like I've done for flyingdutchdevil? ;)

He said he's taking me to a proper bar and buying me a few "fancy drinks" (whatever that means). For him, that probably means rum and coke.

[moonpie23]

just watched the last play a few times.....everyone talking about whether or not richard jefferson pushed KD, no one talking about jefferson stepping on KD's foot....lol


love it....

[DukieInBrasil]

Steph Curry is a great player and has absolutely torched pretty much every team in the NBA at one point or another. I have to admit that there is a certain amount of schadenfreude in seeing Steph Curry gloat about a late game 3, like he won it at that point, and then seeing them lose on Kyrie's heroics.
I guess i like to see Cleveland win since they got Kyrie and Dunleavy, and GSW got no Duke alum + they continue to employ a guy who has no business drawing an NBA paycheck and is a UNC alum (McAdoo).
Ed.- Also, i continue to not understand why Dunn continues to get so much more time than Tyus. All of his shooting %s are lower, his a/to is lower and those are 2 key areas for a PG to excel at. PGs don't need to be high volume scorer, although that's nice, but making shots when they take them, particularly 3s, and setting up scores at a higher rate than they turn it over are keys. Tyus is better on both counts and is automatic at the FT line. Let him play!!!

[moonpie23]

seeing Steph Curry gloat about a late game 3, like he won it at that point, and then seeing them lose on Kyrie's heroics.



that came in second to my getting a SPECTRE ring for christmas.....

[JasonEvans]

that came in second to my getting a SPECTRE ring for christmas....

This post is useless without pictures

[moonpie23]

This post is useless without pictures

correct.

[JasonEvans]

correct.

Very cool. One word of warning, if you run into someone with one of these... run!!!

http://www.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/Walther-PPK-2246002-ls.jpg

[Hingeknocker]

Very good write-up on Jabari Parker's recent run of excellent performances. He's a joy to watch play, and does so with a pretty distinctive style.

http://deadspin.com/jabari-parker-is-turning-into-a-nice-sidekick-for-giann-1790596663

The three pointers he made in the game highlights accompanying that article are particularly impressive. As he's added that to his arsenal, his driving game is even more effective; just notice the use of his pump fakes in that game alone. This is also reflected in his advanced stats, which have improved dramatically this year. Coming into the year Andrew Wiggins was getting all of the hype from the 2014 draft class, but I think it's a pretty clear case that Parker is the better, more well-rounded player now.

[NSDukeFan]

Very good write-up on Jabari Parker's recent run of excellent performances. He's a joy to watch play, and does so with a pretty distinctive style.

http://deadspin.com/jabari-parker-is-turning-into-a-nice-sidekick-for-giann-1790596663

The three pointers he made in the game highlights accompanying that article are particularly impressive. As he's added that to his arsenal, his driving game is even more effective; just notice the use of his pump fakes in that game alone. This is also reflected in his advanced stats, which have improved dramatically this year. Coming into the year Andrew Wiggins was getting all of the hype from the 2014 draft class, but I think it's a pretty clear case that Parker is the better, more well-rounded player now.

I haven't seen much of either one of them play this year , but isn't Wiggins considered the vastly superior defensive player? I believe he is still out scoring Parker overall, so is it that clear that Jabari is th more well-rounded player?

[Duke05]

The starting lineup is outscored by 4.4 points per possession with Rubio at the helm. Insert Kris Dunn in his place, and they’re outscored by one. Replace him with the sophomore Tyus Jones, and the Wolves outscore their opponent by a whopping 19.1 points per possession. The sample size, in Jones’ case, is small… but it is glaring, and it harkens at a somewhat radical solution: starting Jones in the place of Rubio.

Jones, at all of 20 years, is a steady hand. He plays solid defense, understands his limitations, and cedes control, which allows the stars of the team to shine offensively. Not all young players are made equal and Jones, for example, has an advanced basketball education. His parents, his older brother and his cousin played college basketball. Jones himself played varsity from the age of 13, and for two years before going to Duke, he was a scout for (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/27/tyus-jones-duke-blue-devils-ncaa-tournament-minnesota-lynx) the WNBA’s Minnesota Lynx. He was bound to be more battle-ready than an average second year player. He understands his role, which is to nail spot-up jumpers, and extravagantly funnel the ball off to the Wolves’ young trio, leaving shot creation duties to them.

None of this is to say Jones is better than Rubio, rather a better fit. On a team budding with potential and lacking in discipline, Rubio simply tips the scales too far in favor of the latter, often leaving the Wolves in a frenzy. Rubio is not the sole initiator of the chaos, but unlike Jones, he’s certainly not a stabilizer.

http://bballbreakdown.com/2016/12/29/for-timberwolves-ricky-rubio-is-no-longer-the-answer/

Of course, I'd go so far as to say Jones is better than Rubio :-)

[DukieInBrasil]

http://bballbreakdown.com/2016/12/29/for-timberwolves-ricky-rubio-is-no-longer-the-answer/

Of course, I'd go so far as to say Jones is better than Rubio :-)

and yet they continue to give all of the backup minutes to Dunn, who in my marginally informed opinion, has been unimpressive.

[Hingeknocker]

I haven't seen much of either one of them play this year , but isn't Wiggins considered the vastly superior defensive player? I believe he is still out scoring Parker overall, so is it that clear that Jabari is th more well-rounded player?

I think anecdotally, yes, Wiggins is considered the better defensive player. However, in the advanced stats for this year, Parker exceeds Wiggins in Defensive Win Shares, Defensive Rebound % and Steal %. In the accumulating stats for total value, Parker has racked up 3.0 Win Shares already this year, whereas Wiggins is at 1.5. Parker also leads Wiggins in both PER and VORP - two measures of the overall quality of the player.

It's definitely a more nuanced case that Parker is the better player, but even in the normal rate stats, Parker only trails Wiggins in PPG (20.3 vs. 21.8). Parker has more rebounds, assists, and steals per game.

I think Jabari is sending a wake-up call to the rest of the league this year.

[lotusland]

Jabari is my favorite OAD Dukie all time. Glad to see him enjoying success. I barely watch any NBA games but I think Jahlil can likewise excel in the right situation. Love to see the Celtics rescue him from Philly.

[Furniture]

Jabari is my favorite OAD Dukie all time. Glad to see him enjoying success. I barely watch any NBA games but I think Jahlil can likewise excel in the right situation. Love to see the Celtics rescue him from Philly.

Jabari is killing it. Great to see!

[Furniture]

6992

[Hingeknocker]

6992

The TS% is so impressive for Jabari. As his usage continues to creep up with he and Giannis putting their stamp on the Bucks, he's not going to be underrated for much longer.

[Ichabod Drain]

The TS% is so impressive for Jabari. As his usage continues to creep up with he and Giannis putting their stamp on the Bucks, he's not going to be underrated for much longer.

Giannis just turned 22 and Jabari is 21. Some unreal future potential for the Bucks there.

[brevity]

Bad news in Miami.

Miami HEAT (https://twitter.com/MiamiHEAT) ‏@MiamiHEAT

Justise Winslow will undergo surgery tomorrow to repair a torn labrum in his right shoulder & is likely out for the remainder of the season.

6:02 PM - 4 Jan 2017 (https://twitter.com/MiamiHEAT/status/816827216256323589)

Spo on Winslow: "I really feel for him because I know how much time he put in this summer. He's put in as much time as anybody."

6:10 PM - 4 Jan 2017 (https://twitter.com/MiamiHEAT/status/816829148513505280)

Spo (cont'd): "I know how much it means for him to be here (with his team) and be able to make an impact."

6:11 PM - 4 Jan 2017 (https://twitter.com/MiamiHEAT/status/816829512637763584)

[Furniture]

I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.!!!!!!!!!

[Billy Dat]

Giannis just turned 22 and Jabari is 21. Some unreal future potential for the Bucks there.

I watched Bucks v Knicks last night which, naturally had a lot of Duke interest.

The Ringer posted an NBA Shootaround from last night with a lot of Duke interest in it:
https://theringer.com/nba-shootaround-giannis-is-the-story-of-the-season-d8d5eca126a7#.2i7odnrk8

For Knicks v Bucks:
The Greek Freak hit a buzzer beater game winner over Lance...LT defended him well, but, The Freak is the Freak. Neither Plumlee saw action. Jabari can still get so much better, he is lethal going to the basket, but still needs to add a 3 and a better midrange game. Playing next to the Freak is a huge bonus for him. I know many around these parts admired UVA's Malcolm Brogdan, he is doing some serious work in Milwaukee, he will have a long and effective NBA career barring serious injury.

In the Ringer piece, there is actually a flattering bit about the favorite Duke/NBA whipping boy, Mr. Sub Zero himself, Austin Rivers. He had himself a game last night. His confidence will ultimately be to his benefit because I think it allows him to tune out the negativity.

There's also a Steph Curry GIF in there that has to be seen to be believed, of all the stuff he's done, I have never quite seen the bucket he pulled off last night.

[COYS]

I was catching up on my Dukies in the NBA news and happened to notice just how ridiculous Mason is as a passer at the center spot. He currently ranks second in the league behind only Andrew Bogut in assist rate BUUUT Bogut also turns the ball over at more than double the rate of Mason, whose turnover percentage sits at an impressive 10%. I actually think it's safe to say that Mason is the best passing center in the league (except when Draymond Green plays center). He's not going to get on an All Star team or anything with these stats, but he has become an incredibly unique player. I know many of us were happy when he was traded to Portland because the Nets clearly did not value his skills, but he really is blossoming as a playmaking center.
http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/sort/assistRatio

[cato]

I watched Bucks v Knicks last night which, naturally had a lot of Duke interest.

The Ringer posted an NBA Shootaround from last night with a lot of Duke interest in it:
https://theringer.com/nba-shootaround-giannis-is-the-story-of-the-season-d8d5eca126a7#.2i7odnrk8

For Knicks v Bucks:
The Greek Freak hit a buzzer beater game winner over Lance...LT defended him well, but, The Freak is the Freak. Neither Plumlee saw action. Jabari can still get so much better, he is lethal going to the basket, but still needs to add a 3 and a better midrange game. Playing next to the Freak is a huge bonus for him. I know many around these parts admired UVA's Malcolm Brogdan, he is doing some serious work in Milwaukee, he will have a long and effective NBA career barring serious injury.

In the Ringer piece, there is actually a flattering bit about the favorite Duke/NBA whipping boy, Mr. Sub Zero himself, Austin Rivers. He had himself a game last night. His confidence will ultimately be to his benefit because I think it allows him to tune out the negativity.

There's also a Steph Curry GIF in there that has to be seen to be believed, of all the stuff he's done, I have never quite seen the bucket he pulled off last night.

Is Tar Heel Killer Rivers still getting negative pub? I thought that had dropped off since he stabilized as a decent NBA player.

[Billy Dat]

Is Tar Heel Killer Rivers still getting negative pub? I thought that had dropped off since he stabilized as a decent NBA player.

This is not an opinion I share, but the popular opinion of Austin Rivers is that his post-high school career has been an exercise in delusional self-belief exemplified by ball-hogging, gunning, poor defense and nepotism - the definition of someone you wouldn't want to play with. Many feel he'd have been out of the NBA had his father not intervened (could be true).

Here's the classic example of how he is perceived:
http://deadspin.com/blake-griffins-austin-rivers-impression-is-so-cold-and-1694079631

I feel like he is a kid completely consumed by basketball whose extreme self-belief is what has allowed to to achieve what he has achieved, even if I wish he'd been able to get there by being a little less of a soloist.

Keep grinding, Austin, we're rooting for you.

[Billy Dat]

Dun Jr. traded to Atlanta as Korver heads to Cleveland. Feel bad for Mike as he has tried to find a Battier role on a title contender.

[dukelifer]

Dun Jr. traded to Atlanta as Korver heads to Cleveland. Feel bad for Mike as he has tried to find a Battier role on a title contender.

Korver has a unique skill set and will greatly benefit from having Lebron setting him up

[Duke79UNLV77]

This is not an opinion I share, but the popular opinion of Austin Rivers is that his post-high school career has been an exercise in delusional self-belief exemplified by ball-hogging, gunning, poor defense and nepotism - the definition of someone you wouldn't want to play with. Many feel he'd have been out of the NBA had his father not intervened (could be true).

Here's the classic example of how he is perceived:
http://deadspin.com/blake-griffins-austin-rivers-impression-is-so-cold-and-1694079631

I feel like he is a kid completely consumed by basketball whose extreme self-belief is what has allowed to to achieve what he has achieved, even if I wish he'd been able to get there by being a little less of a soloist.

Keep grinding, Austin, we're rooting for you.

I think that view is a little dated. In fact, I recall seeing that video characterized as showing that the team had accepted Austin, as you can kid one of your own. In any event, I don't think there's much doubt now that he's an NBA player, regardless of his dad. He's averaging double digits off the bench, and I've heard him praised by commentators for his defense. He's still not as good as he thinks he is, but he's good.

[Billy Dat]

I think that view is a little dated. In fact, I recall seeing that video characterized as showing that the team had accepted Austin, as you can kid one of your own. In any event, I don't think there's much doubt now that he's an NBA player, regardless of his dad. He's averaging double digits off the bench, and I've heard him praised by commentators for his defense. He's still not as good as he thinks he is, but he's good.

I don't think his problem was ever really with his fellow players, he's been a digital media whipping boy from the jump and he still is to a large degree. That's why the Ringer article was a pleasant surprise. Of course, the digital media guys also spent more than an hour last week debating whether or not Kyrie Irving is good...not great, but is he even good...tough crowd

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18359464

[elvis14]

I like Austin Rivers (and his Dad) and I'm really happy to see him finally start to come into his own. I usually try to watch Clippers games when they are on, usually late night. They have this guy named JJ Redick on the team that I like to watch play. Don't know if you guys have heard of him, he's not too bad and he can shoot a little. As a result, I've gotten to watch Austin grow as a player. Hope he continues to do well. I do think he's a great example of a 1 and done player that needed at least 1 more year at Duke and had it not been for Doc, he might be playing in Turkey or China.

[Hingeknocker]

I don't think his problem was ever really with his fellow players, he's been a digital media whipping boy from the jump and he still is to a large degree. That's why the Ringer article was a pleasant surprise. Of course, the digital media guys also spent more than an hour last week debating whether or not Kyrie Irving is good...not great, but is he even good...tough crowd

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18359464

I agree that Austin Rivers spent a long time overcoming a negative sentiment from the media, but I don't think he's a whipping boy anymore - at least from serious basketball minds. It didn't help that he entered the league under the microscope from being a brash Duke player, and then had a tough start to his career followed by the nepotism accusations. It look longer than it should have, though. After a relatively underwhelming start to his time in Los Angeles, he did deserve skepticism. But then in his first full season in LA last year, he had the best season of his career. It took until his gutsy performance in last year's playoffs, when half of the Clippers were out, for the overall opinion of him to sway positive. And now he's backed that up by having an even better year this year. No doubt, it's exciting to see him getting recognized for it.

As for Kyrie, I'm not even sure how you could debate his quality. I checked the link to that ESPN Radio deal and didn't recognize anyone I would consider a serious basketball analyst. For better reference, Zach Lowe's top item in this week's column heaped praise on the Kyrie + LeBron pairing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18414044/zach-lowe-10-things-like-featuring-lebron-james-kyrie-irving-nba

[Billy Dat]

As for Kyrie, I'm not even sure how you could debate his quality. I checked the link to that ESPN Radio deal and didn't recognize anyone I would consider a serious basketball analyst. For better reference, Zach Lowe's top item in this week's column heaped praise on the Kyrie + LeBron pairing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18414044/zach-lowe-10-things-like-featuring-lebron-james-kyrie-irving-nba

In terms of "serious basketball analyst" that definition is certainly subjective. I have an uncle that played D1 ball in the 60s and, as a former player, won't respect the opinion of anyone who is not a former player or coach. 20+ years into the internet era, there exists a whole world of basketball journalists who never played but earned their place with incisive analysis, including X and OI breakdowns, advanced stats breakdowns, etc. Zach Lowe is one of the greats, but a lot of guys on that pod are Zach's contemporaries and people he frequently has on his own pod and are considered peers - namely Brian Windhorst and Tom Haberstroh.

The argument they make about Kyrie rests on 3 legs:
-Since Lebron has returned, the Cavs record when he doesn't play and Kyrie plays is a losing record. The fact that they were terrible with Kyrie before Lebron is just icing on that cake.
-Based on advanced defensive stats, Kyrie ranks as one of the 10 worst rotation players in the entire league
-On offense he is a solo artist that is a ball stopper and has a terrible assist rate for a point guard

Again, I am passing along opinions expressed on the pod, not my own.

I tend to side with one of the others on the pod, Tim MacMahon, the ESPN writer embedded with the Mavs, who answers every criticism of Kyrie with, "Are we talking about the same bucket getter that killed Steph Curry in the Finals, stuck the title winning shot in Steph's mug, stuck the Xmas day game winner in Klay's mug, and isn't afraid of any situation...that's the guy we're talking about....WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?"

[flyingdutchdevil]

In terms of "serious basketball analyst" that definition is certainly subjective. I have an uncle that played D1 ball in the 60s and, as a former player, won't respect the opinion of anyone who is not a former player or coach. 20+ years into the internet era, there exists a whole world of basketball journalists who never played but earned their place with incisive analysis, including X and OI breakdowns, advanced stats breakdowns, etc. Zach Lowe is one of the greats, but a lot of guys on that pod are Zach's contemporaries and people he frequently has on his own pod and are considered peers - namely Brian Windhorst and Tom Haberstroh.

The argument they make about Kyrie rests on 3 legs:
-Since Lebron has returned, the Cavs record when he doesn't play and Kyrie plays is a losing record. The fact that they were terrible with Kyrie before Lebron is just icing on that cake.
-Based on advanced defensive stats, Kyrie ranks as one of the 10 worst rotation players in the entire league
-On offense he is a solo artist that is a ball stopper and has a terrible assist rate for a point guard

Again, I am passing along opinions expressed on the pod, not my own.

I tend to side with one of the others on the pod, Tim MacMahon, the ESPN writer embedded with the Mavs, who answers every criticism of Kyrie with, "Are we talking about the same bucket getter that killed Steph Curry in the Finals, stuck the title winning shot in Steph's mug, stuck the Xmas day game winner in Klay's mug, and isn't afraid of any situation...that's the guy we're talking about...WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?"

Interesting arguments.

1) The first point is well taken. And, because of this, I don't think Kyrie can ever be a first banana, ala Chris Paul, Curry, Lebron, etc. There is a reason there are so few of them. Kyrie's biggest asset is scoring, although he is becoming much better at passing, especially in the month of December. He's the kinda guy who you never want to face because his offense is so potent, but he's also the guy you want to face if he's the biggest star on the team.

2) Kyrie doesn't play D. That's just his thing. He hates contact on the defensive end and is allergic to screens. True story. Many here say that Kyrie is a really good defender but chooses not to play D. Well, J Michael Pearson (former CEO of Valeant and Duke alum) is a great CEO when he's not engaging in unethical behavior. IMO, Kyrie is a bad defender.

3) Yes, Kyrie isn't a pass-first PG. But he's a great solo artist, and one who is highly effective on offense and defense when it matters (which isn't often). There are few players in the league who I'd rather than Kyrie in a clutch situation.

Bottomline, I would never select Kyrie as my first banana player, but he's great with an unselfish superstar.

[COYS]

The argument they make about Kyrie rests on 3 legs:
-Since Lebron has returned, the Cavs record when he doesn't play and Kyrie plays is a losing record. The fact that they were terrible with Kyrie before Lebron is just icing on that cake.
-Based on advanced defensive stats, Kyrie ranks as one of the 10 worst rotation players in the entire league
-On offense he is a solo artist that is a ball stopper and has a terrible assist rate for a point guard

Again, I am passing along opinions expressed on the pod, not my own.

I tend to side with one of the others on the pod, Tim MacMahon, the ESPN writer embedded with the Mavs, who answers every criticism of Kyrie with, "Are we talking about the same bucket getter that killed Steph Curry in the Finals, stuck the title winning shot in Steph's mug, stuck the Xmas day game winner in Klay's mug, and isn't afraid of any situation...that's the guy we're talking about...WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?"

Yeah, I tend to agree with you. If the question were "Is Kyrie a Top 10 or even Top 20 player in the league?" I think there's plenty of room for arguing that he is not (and plenty of room for arguing that he is). Chris Paul, he is not. Allen Iverson 2.0, he is not. But he's still really dang good and it just seems silly to argue otherwise. Also, after his rookie season when he put up efficiency numbers that were second only to Chris Paul in recent rookie point guard history, I think the expectations were that he would be putting up HOF-like numbers on offense and improve his defense. Neither has panned out exactly as those of us (myself included) who hoped he would reach those lofty levels hoped, but that's not to say he isn't a fantastic basketball player.

[Hingeknocker]

In terms of "serious basketball analyst" that definition is certainly subjective. I have an uncle that played D1 ball in the 60s and, as a former player, won't respect the opinion of anyone who is not a former player or coach. 20+ years into the internet era, there exists a whole world of basketball journalists who never played but earned their place with incisive analysis, including X and OI breakdowns, advanced stats breakdowns, etc. Zach Lowe is one of the greats, but a lot of guys on that pod are Zach's contemporaries and people he frequently has on his own pod and are considered peers - namely Brian Windhorst and Tom Haberstroh.


I should have been clearer about what I meant. I think Brian Windhorst is great at what he does, but I view him more as a beat reporter/news guy (like Woj) as opposed to an analyst (like Lowe). I'm not as familiar with Haberstroh, but I see he's connected with the TrueHoop group of guys. I was too quick to write the whole endeavor off after recoiling at the debate in the first place. I've probably let the "embrace debate" side of ESPN color too much of my immediate reactions.


Yeah, I tend to agree with you. If the question were "Is Kyrie a Top 10 or even Top 20 player in the league?" I think there's plenty of room for arguing that he is not (and plenty of room for arguing that he is). Chris Paul, he is not. Allen Iverson 2.0, he is not. But he's still really dang good and it just seems silly to argue otherwise. Also, after his rookie season when he put up efficiency numbers that were second only to Chris Paul in recent rookie point guard history, I think the expectations were that he would be putting up HOF-like numbers on offense and improve his defense. Neither has panned out exactly as those of us (myself included) who hoped he would reach those lofty levels hoped, but that's not to say he isn't a fantastic basketball player.

Thanks for the good discussion about what was actually in the debate segment since I foolishly wrote it all off. I don't think it's fair to include Kyrie's time with the Cavs before LeBron got there - that team wasn't built to win no matter who was their best player, especially one that was a rookie. I agree with the sentiments you guys have shared, as well. Kyrie is an incredibly talented player, but by himself isn't a top 10 player. It says a lot about his skill-set and ability to play with others that his game translates so well while playing with a top 5 player.

[nmduke2001]

Per Marc Stein, Ryan Kelly was waived by Atlanta today.

[Billy Dat]

Per Marc Stein, Ryan Kelly was waived by Atlanta today.

Has the league instituted a Duke quota as a result of our overwhelming #s?

Keep your head up, Ryan...call Lance and get a dose of that tough juice!

[cato]

I like Austin Rivers (and his Dad) and I'm really happy to see him finally start to come into his own. I usually try to watch Clippers games when they are on, usually late night. They have this guy named JJ Redick on the team that I like to watch play. Don't know if you guys have heard of him, he's not too bad and he can shoot a little. As a result, I've gotten to watch Austin grow as a player. Hope he continues to do well. I do think he's a great example of a 1 and done player that needed at least 1 more year at Duke and had it not been for Doc, he might be playing in Turkey or China.

But if he had stayed in school and dropped a bit down the draft, would he have ever gotten the minutes on the floor that he did early in his career? Yeah, he caught a lot of stuff in the media, but he played. So many upperclassmen get buried on the bench . . .

Now, maybe Austin would have been better off playing at Duke for another year or two. There is no way to know. But he is playing in the NBA, so this is one case where I'm not going to second guess.

Also, did we talk about that time Austin went to Chapel Hill? Because I love that story.

[sagegrouse]

Per Marc Stein, Ryan Kelly was waived by Atlanta today.

Ryan's fate may have been determined by Atlanta's involvement in taking Mike Dunleavy in the complicated trade of Kyle Korver to the Cavs:


The primary factor delaying completion of the Korver trade, sources said, is Atlanta's ongoing effort to find a third team willing to take on Dunleavy. But the Hawks, sources said, waived Ryan Kelly on Friday to open up an extra roster spot in the event they need to make room for both Williams and Dunleavy on their roster.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like Ryan may be re-signed if Dunleavy ends up elsewhere. I also feel bad for Mike, who was in a good position to earn a ring with the Cavs.

[BD80]

Per Marc Stein, Ryan Kelly was waived by Atlanta today.


Has the league instituted a Duke quota as a result of our overwhelming #s? ...

May not be permanent, on either front.

Hawks waived Kelly to make room for Mo Williams and Dunleavy. Now looking to move Dunleavy. Might then have room to bring back Ryan.

However, if the Hawks are blowing things up, they might keep things fluid until after the trade deadline.

[Nrrrrvous]

Jabari and the Bucks looking good on ESPN tonight!

[elvis14]

But if he had stayed in school and dropped a bit down the draft, would he have ever gotten the minutes on the floor that he did early in his career? Yeah, he caught a lot of stuff in the media, but he played. So many upperclassmen get buried on the bench . . .

Now, maybe Austin would have been better off playing at Duke for another year or two. There is no way to know. But he is playing in the NBA, so this is one case where I'm not going to second guess.

Also, did we talk about that time Austin went to Chapel Hill? Because I love that story.l

I could be wrong about Austin staying at Duke. I'm not one of those guys who thinks players can't improve greatly in the NBA even without much playing time. For Austin, in particular, I thought he started so badly that having another year at Duke would have been good for him. But, you are right...we will never know. No matter what path he's taken, I'm happy he's playing so well and I think it's cool that he's playing for his Dad.

Remember when he hit that shot over that tall dude with the big ears and we renamed the Dean Dump 'Three Rivers Stadium' and made a movie about it, 'A Rivers Runs Throught It'? That was a good night.

[InSpades]

Jabari and the Bucks looking good on ESPN tonight!

Jabari had pretty dirty alleyoop from Jason Terry.

Then Lance Thomas made a great defensive effort near the end to steal the ball from Giannis to seal the win for the Knicks (including a nice dive on the ground while Giannis tried to reach down for the ball... wonder where he learned that one!).

[awhom111]

May not be permanent, on either front.

Hawks waived Kelly to make room for Mo Williams and Dunleavy. Now looking to move Dunleavy. Might then have room to bring back Ryan.

However, if the Hawks are blowing things up, they might keep things fluid until after the trade deadline.

Ryan was probably going to get waived anyway since the full remaining amount on his contract was scheduled to be guaranteed if he was kept longer. A number of other players in the same boat were just waived.

If the Hawks get rid of Dunleavy and waive Mo Williams (who is both injured and de facto retired), they will have plenty of space to bring him back if nobody else jumps in ahead of them.

For those wondering why Ryan was willing to play in the D League and not head overseas, I would suspect the fact that he and his wife just welcomed their new baby was part of the decision to stay here and it paid off about as well as could be hoped.

[DukieInBrasil]

Duke alums with lots of game last night! All 8 alum scored at least 10 points, with Kyrie maxing out at 32, Jabari with 25, Austin with 24, Deng and Redick with 19, Gerald Henderson with 18, Ingram with 17 and Lance with 10.
Great showing on the night!

[Furniture]

Ingram scored a career-high 17 points (6-9 FG, 0-1 3Pt, 5-5 FT) to go with six rebounds and four assists across 28 minutes off the bench!

[DukieInBrasil]

...and last night was a real stinker for Duke alums in the NBA. 3 guys played, making 2 shots, scoring a total of 6 points.

[Furniture]

Los Angeles win 111-95 over the Orlando and Ingram matched his career-high for the second consecutive game with 17 points.
Ingram was shooting a disappointing 34.5 percent a week ago, but in his last four games has gone 17 of 28 from the field.

[NSDukeFan]

Mason almost joined the triple double club last night, missing by 2 points, as he had 10 boards and 12 assists. That sounds like a Draymond Green or Rajon Rondo double-double where you don't get the points.

[NashvilleDevil]

It seems Philly is moving on from Jah. He's been a DNP-CD the last 2 games and was not getting many minutes when he was playing. If he does get traded I hope it is to a better run organization than the Sixers who appear to be zeroing in on another top 3 pick.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It seems Philly is moving on from Jah. He's been a DNP-CD the last 2 games and was not getting many minutes when he was playing. If he does get traded I hope it is to a better run organization than the Sixers who appear to be zeroing in on another top 3 pick.

So... traded by Philly to anyone not Philly? Sounds likely.

[dukelifer]

Ingram scored a career-high 17 points (6-9 FG, 0-1 3Pt, 5-5 FT) to go with six rebounds and four assists across 28 minutes off the bench!

Apparently Ingram is their best player in practice. It took him a while in college as well. He will figure it out but he has to get stronger.

[CDu]

It seems Philly is moving on from Jah. He's been a DNP-CD the last 2 games and was not getting many minutes when he was playing. If he does get traded I hope it is to a better run organization than the Sixers who appear to be zeroing in on another top 3 pick.

Actually, the Sixers are on a bit of a roll. They are 3-1 in their last four (during which Okafor has 3 DNPs and one 10-minute game off the bench). They are 8-17 when Embiid plays and 2-8 when he does not. They are 3-5 when both Noel and Embiid play. That's obviously not playoff-caliber, but they appear to be turning things in the right direction with Embiid healthy.

The problem for Okafor is that Embiid is simply a better option at C, and Okafor isn't a PF in the NBA. Okafor doesn't rebound well, doesn't defend well, and doesn't run well. He's a good post scorer, but that is about all he brings to the table right now. The Sixers have (rightfully, in my mind) decided that Embiid and Okafor can't share the court in today's NBA game. They have also decided (rightfully, unfortunately) that Embiid is the better player. And that means that Okafor is on the outs.

Hopefully he can find a place to fit. It's tricky, because the trend in the NBA is toward more mobile, uptempo styles, and Okafor is a bit glacial by NBA standards. I am sure there are places he could do fine, but you would almost have to pair him with a PF who can rebound, defend, be mobile, and shoot 3s, because playing two bigs who don't do those things really handcuffs you. I'm envisioning someone like Taj Gibson, only with a bit more range. Gibson would probably work as a partner though simply because he is very mobile.

[Ichabod Drain]

Apparently Ingram is their best player in practice. It took him a while in college as well. He will figure it out but he has to get stronger.

Yep,second youngest player in the NBA. He's also younger than a few freshman who will be OAD this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Actually, the Sixers are on a bit of a roll. They are 3-1 in their last four (during which Okafor has 3 DNPs and one 10-minute game off the bench). They are 8-17 when Embiid plays and 2-8 when he does not. They are 3-5 when both Noel and Embiid play. That's obviously not playoff-caliber, but they appear to be turning things in the right direction with Embiid healthy.

The problem for Okafor is that Embiid is simply a better option at C, and Okafor isn't a PF in the NBA. Okafor doesn't rebound well, doesn't defend well, and doesn't run well. He's a good post scorer, but that is about all he brings to the table right now. The Sixers have (rightfully, in my mind) decided that Embiid and Okafor can't share the court in today's NBA game. They have also decided (rightfully, unfortunately) that Embiid is the better player. And that means that Okafor is on the outs.

Hopefully he can find a place to fit. It's tricky, because the trend in the NBA is toward more mobile, uptempo styles, and Okafor is a bit glacial by NBA standards. I am sure there are places he could do fine, but you would almost have to pair him with a PF who can rebound, defend, be mobile, and shoot 3s, because playing two bigs who don't do those things really handcuffs you. I'm envisioning someone like Taj Gibson, only with a bit more range. Gibson would probably work as a partner though simply because he is very mobile.

Unfortunately, every thing stated here is spot on. Okafor got born into the wrong NBA. And big, physical, non-mobile big men with offensive games need to be elite defenders to stay around the league. IMO, the days of Al Jeffersons succeeding in the league are past us.

I hope Okafor expands his skillset to become a solid rebounder (likely) and solid defender (unlikely). He's never going to become a KAT or a Davis or a Deandre Jordan, but he needs to be able to contribute in other ways.

[JasonEvans]

Unfortunately, every thing stated here is spot on. Okafor got born into the wrong NBA. And big, physical, non-mobile big men with offensive games need to be elite defenders to stay around the league. IMO, the days of Al Jeffersons succeeding in the league are past us.

I hope Okafor expands his skillset to become a solid rebounder (likely) and solid defender (unlikely). He's never going to become a KAT or a Davis or a Deandre Jordan, but he needs to be able to contribute in other ways.

I think that as everyone starts doing the same thing, the ability to do something else will become more valuable. So, we teams migrate to outside-in big men who are likely quicker and more agile but also a bit weaker and less bulky, it may afford an advantage of a big man who is more "traditional." You cannot tell me that Shaq would not be extremely successful in today's NBA. I'm not saying that Jabari is Shaq, but I think he can still find a significant role for himself on a team that is willing to try something different.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think that as everyone starts doing the same thing, the ability to do something else will become more valuable. So, we teams migrate to outside-in big men who are likely quicker and more agile but also a bit weaker and less bulky, it may afford an advantage of a big man who is more "traditional." You cannot tell me that Shaq would not be extremely successful in today's NBA. I'm not saying that Jabari is Shaq, but I think he can still find a significant role for himself on a team that is willing to try something different.

Jabari definitely isn't Shaq. I'd say a more athletic Carmelo with a worse jump shot.

And Jahlil isn't close to Shaq. On a scoring front, it's not close. On a rebounding front, Shaq averaged 12.0 rebounds per 36 min in his second year. Jahlil? 7.7 per 36 min. And Shaq had good - not great - defense.

Jahlil is in a really tough spot. I don't think there are many teams that want a back-to-the-basket C who can't/won't/incapable of playing D. Look at Mason Plumee. He is basically the opposite of Jahlil: good rebounding, great passer, solid defense, and mediocre scoring with no back-to-the-basket game. And MP2 is extremely valuable to his team. In this NBA, a defensive, team-oriented C is more important than a back-to-the-basket C.

[CDu]

I think that as everyone starts doing the same thing, the ability to do something else will become more valuable. So, we teams migrate to outside-in big men who are likely quicker and more agile but also a bit weaker and less bulky, it may afford an advantage of a big man who is more "traditional." You cannot tell me that Shaq would not be extremely successful in today's NBA. I'm not saying that Jabari is Shaq, but I think he can still find a significant role for himself on a team that is willing to try something different.

Shaq would undoubtedly still be a superstar in today's game. But Okafor isn't anything like Shaq. He's more like Al Jefferson or Zach Randolph: big, physical, slow players with good post scoring skills but questionable defensive skills. Those guys are still productive players in the league, but they aren't part of true contenders. And Okafor isn't as good a rebounder as those guys.

If Okafor can become a good rebounder, he could approximate what Randolph and Jefferson have done. But that's a big "if." Any comparisons to Shaq (who was two inches taller, MUCH stronger, and MUCH more athletically-gifted) or Duncan (much better defensively) just don't seem very appropriate.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I think that as everyone starts doing the same thing, the ability to do something else will become more valuable. So, we teams migrate to outside-in big men who are likely quicker and more agile but also a bit weaker and less bulky, it may afford an advantage of a big man who is more "traditional." You cannot tell me that Shaq would not be extremely successful in today's NBA. I'm not saying that Jabari is Shaq, but I think he can still find a significant role for himself on a team that is willing to try something different.

I think J.J. came into the league at a time when pure shooters who weren't great at creating their own shots were underappreciated. Besides a lot of hard work to round out his game, I think J.J. benefitted from a change where the league now highly values pure shooting specialists. Perhaps, Okafor can follow a similar course. I just think he has way too many skills not to be valuable in the right situation. Even last year, he showed a good bit of scoring promise (with very poor shooters around him) for a guy just one year removed from high school.

[CDu]

I think J.J. came into the league at a time when pure shooters who weren't great at creating their own shots were underappreciated. Besides a lot of hard work to round out his game, I think J.J. benefitted from a change where the league now highly values pure shooting specialists. Perhaps, Okafor can follow a similar course. I just think he has way too many skills not to be valuable in the right situation. Even last year, he showed a good bit of scoring promise (with very poor shooters around him) for a guy just one year removed from high school.

Yeah I don't think Okafor's offensive skills are the problem. The problem is that he isn't a good rebounder and is borderline-immobile as a defender. That puts a TON of pressure on the other players defensively. You need to have a strong rebounder and defender at the PF next to him. But you also need that strong rebounding defender to be a capable perimeter shooter to make it work on offense without clogging the floor.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah I don't think Okafor's offensive skills are the problem. The problem is that he isn't a good rebounder and is borderline-immobile as a defender. That puts a TON of pressure on the other players defensively. You need to have a strong rebounder and defender at the PF next to him. But you also need that strong rebounding defender to be a capable perimeter shooter to make it work on offense without clogging the floor.

A strong 3-and-D PF? Does that exist in the league? Channing Frye comes to mind, but he only averages 7.3 rebounds per 36 min for his career. Al Horford? But he's way more than a 3-and-D guy.

CDu - unfortunately, the player you are describing doesn't really exist or is few and far between.

[SCMatt33]

Yeah I don't think Okafor's offensive skills are the problem. The problem is that he isn't a good rebounder and is borderline-immobile as a defender. That puts a TON of pressure on the other players defensively. You need to have a strong rebounder and defender at the PF next to him. But you also need that strong rebounding defender to be a capable perimeter shooter to make it work on offense without clogging the floor.

I think his offensive skills aren't perfect either. While he is absolutely prolific with his back to the basket, that type of offense requires you to give he ball to him and let him work. It doesn't get other guys involved and takes away the teams ability to exploit mismatches. Even when he was here, his offense was great, but I think I remember reading that the team's overall offense was actually more efficient with him off the court. Now if he were a capable rebounder and defender. This wouldn't be so bad as there are ancillary benefits such as getting opposing players into foul trouble and getting your team into the bonus which guards can take advantage of, but offensive skills don't always translate into great team offense, which is part of the reason (in addition to better pure shooting) that the league has gone away from it.

[CDu]

A strong 3-and-D PF? Does that exist in the league? Channing Frye comes to mind, but he only averages 7.3 rebounds per 36 min for his career. Al Horford? But he's way more than a 3-and-D guy.

CDu - unfortunately, the player you are describing doesn't really exist or is few and far between.

Firstly, I didn't say it needed to be a "3 and D" player. I said it needed to be an athletic/mobile defender who can shoot 3s and rebound well. But, I agree that even those are rare. Which is one of my criticisms of Okafor. Gibson is probably the closest I can come up with. He has a good jumper out to 20 feet, but not a 3. But he can contribute the other things.

Actually, Draymond Green or Anthony Davis would probably be the best fit. Or Durant as a smallball 4. Or Al-Farouq Aminu. Frye doesn't defend and doesn't rebound. Horford is more of a center than a PF as he isn't the most mobile defender.

But like you and I have said, Okafor's skill set demands a PF that is extremely rare in the NBA. You can find a good defender/rebounder at the 4. You can find a good shooter at the 4. But it's really hard to find both.

[CDu]

I think his offensive skills aren't perfect either. While he is absolutely prolific with his back to the basket, that type of offense requires you to give he ball to him and let him work. It doesn't get other guys involved and takes away the teams ability to exploit mismatches. Even when he was here, his offense was great, but I think I remember reading that the team's overall offense was actually more efficient with him off the court. Now if he were a capable rebounder and defender. This wouldn't be so bad as there are ancillary benefits such as getting opposing players into foul trouble and getting your team into the bonus which guards can take advantage of, but offensive skills don't always translate into great team offense, which is part of the reason (in addition to better pure shooting) that the league has gone away from it.

Oh I agree - he's far from perfect offensively. He's not a good pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop guy, which limits what you can do with him and your perimeter guys. And he isn't dominant enough in the post to consistently draw a double-team. And he isn't a good enough passer to punish you even if you did double him.

Just saying that he can at least be useful offensively. It's on the other end of the floor that he acts as such an anchor to a team's success.