If you could add one former Duke player..

[ipatent]

..to this year's team, who would it be? To make things more interesting, let's exclude one and dones as well as players who have their numbers in the rafters.

[nmduke2001]

..to this year's team, who would it be? To make things more interesting, let's exclude one and dones as well as players who have their numbers in the rafters.

Chris Duhon

[OldPhiKap]

Billy King. Scoring won't be the issue with this team.

[MChambers]

Chris Duhon

I'd want a guard who can pressure the point. Since the OP said we could not name anybody with a jersey in the rafters, that rules out my first choice: Bobby Hurley.

Duhon is a good choice. Nolan Smith? How about Kyrie? (I know, he's not very good on defense, but we didn't get to see much of him.)

[OldPhiKap]

I'd want a guard who can pressure the point. Since the OP said we could not name anybody with a jersey in the rafters, that rules out my first choice: Bobby Hurley.

Duhon is a good choice. Nolan Smith? How about Kyrie? (I know, he's not very good on defense, but we didn't get to see much of him.)

I think the best defensive PG we have had in the K era was Tommy Amaker. No disrespect to Wojo.

[MChambers]

I think the best defensive PG we have had in the K era was Tommy Amaker. No disrespect to Wojo.

Would be interesting to see if Tommy's three point shooting would be good enough for this era, but I agree, he was a great defensive point guard.

[fuse]

The correct answer is always Grant Hill :-)
A second possible correct answer might be Shane Battier.
Laettner would be a fun answer although generational chemistry may prove problematic.

[Li_Duke]

Chris Duhon

Agreed. Duhon's best traits were his ability to run a team full of NBA level talent (Jones and Hurley are the other two that definitely had that ability but don't qualify under the rules) and his defense (Wojo and Amaker also come to mind here but aren't as good offensively). Scheyer as a senior might be the other one I'd consider (solid defense, good mistake-free playmaking, and a better offensive option than Duhon).

Or perhaps forget about the lack of an established PG on our roster and take the overall best talent that qualifies under the rules: Elton Brand. Wooden award level player? Yes, please.

[mgtr]

Not one and done, number not retired -- Nolan Smith or Seth Curry.

[Indoor66]

Bobby Hurley, winner.

[OldPhiKap]

Would be interesting to see if Tommy's three point shooting would be good enough for this era, but I agree, he was a great defensive point guard.

I remember Kenny Smith saying that Tommy was the only player he ever faced that made him turn his back to the defender and dribble just to get the ball to mid-court. Tommy had crazy fast hands and a very low crouch.

His outside shooting was not his strong suit, although forced to rely upon it a bit in '87.

[ipatent]

I'd probably take also Amaker as a pure point who could put defensive pressure on opposing PGs. Daniel Ewing was one of Duke's most underrated players, IMO, and I remember him leading the team to an ACC title when the team was shorthanded in the backcourt but he wasn't quite as good as Tommy as a playmaker or on defense. I would take Tommy over Duhon.

[fuse]

Demarcus Nelson could be an intriguing addition.
I am sure that wingspan gave everyone he covered nightmares.

[MChambers]

I remember Kenny Smith saying that Tommy was the only player he ever faced that made him turn his back to the defender and dribble just to get the ball to mid-court. Tommy had crazy fast hands and a very low crouch.

His outside shooting was not his strong suit, although forced to rely upon it a bit in '87.

Just ask the 1986 Louisville guards. Can't remember which one dribbled the ball off his foot in the backcourt, because Tommy had him so shook up.

[richardjackson199]

Quin Snyder played key role to help his team get to 3 Final Fours in 4 years as pg
or Will Avery. I loved that 99 team who I watched in Cameron, so I'm biased.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Denny Ferguson or Jack Mullen.

[NSDukeFan]

Chris Duhon


I think the best defensive PG we have had in the K era was Tommy Amaker. No disrespect to Wojo.


Agreed. Duhon's best traits were his ability to run a team full of NBA level talent (Jones and Hurley are the other two that definitely had that ability but don't qualify under the rules) and his defense (Wojo and Amaker also come to mind here but aren't as good offensively). Scheyer as a senior might be the other one I'd consider (solid defense, good mistake-free playmaking, and a better offensive option than Duhon).

Or perhaps forget about the lack of an established PG on our roster and take the overall best talent that qualifies under the rules: Elton Brand. Wooden award level player? Yes, please.
The biggest concern I have about the coming year is guarding every team's quick guards, so I agree with Amaker, Duhon or Nolan Smith. Elton Brand wouldn't be so bad either.

[mr. synellinden]

I'd want a guard who can pressure the point. Since the OP said we could not name anybody with a jersey in the rafters, that rules out my first choice: Bobby Hurley.

Duhon is a good choice. Nolan Smith? How about Kyrie? (I know, he's not very good on defense, but we didn't get to see much of him.)

I think this is always a fun exercise/debate. Point guard does come to mind as a first "need" - Kyrie would be my first choice, but one and dones were excluded too.

I think my point guard "draft board" would be:

1. Amaker
2. Scheyer
3. Nolan

But it would be hard to pass up sophomore year Elton Brand even with the talent in the front court.

EDIT** I see above that Elton was just mentioned. Really hard to pass up an NCAA player of the year.

[Olympic Fan]

Would be interesting to see if Tommy's three point shooting would be good enough for this era, but I agree, he was a great defensive point guard.

Well, in his one year with a 3-point line, Amaker his 42.7 percent (44 of 103). That line was 10 inches closer than the current line (it was the original NCAA line in 1987, not the REAL close ACC line of 1983). Most players made the transition from the original NCAA line to the modern line. I don't see why Tommy couldn't do that too.

Agree that Tommy was the best on-the ball defender of the K era, just ahead of Hurley, Wojo and Duhon (in that order). Well, Billy King would be in that mix, but he only rarely guarded the opposing point. He and Battier were the two most versatile defenders K has ever had ... just ahead of Grant.

The other thing about Amaker is his playmaking skills. When he was the PG with the potent group of Dawkins-Alarie-Henderson in 1985 and 1986, Amaker didn't score much but averaged six assists (and two turnovers) a game -- a great rate. As a senior, when Ferry (and to some extent Strickland) were the only other scores, his assists went way down -- Ferry actually led the 1987 team in assists, while Amaker's scoring went way up.

The one thing this year's team lacks is a pure point guard. Given the parameters of the question -- no jerseys in the rafters (Hurley) or no one-and-done players (Tyus Jones would have been my choice) -- I'd pick Amaker, just ahead of Duhon, Wojo or Nolan Smith (as great as he was, I think Grayson can be a similar payer this year).

[madscavenger]

In my mind, no question: Wojo.

Defense, and maybe more significant, ENERGY. Offense is secondary; look at the roster - we are overloaded. Wojo's enthusiasm would drive this kind of talent start to finish like a Venom GT.

[gurufrisbee]

Not surprised to see so many point guard answers since generally that seems to be the concern that this team is least strong at.

Little surprised to see how many people have such little knowledge of which players are hanging in the rafters.

Duhon and Amaker certainly jump out. But I'm going with Quinn Cook. Similar ideas. But I think at his age he would still fit in better with the guys on the team and be in shape enough to run with them.

[MChambers]

Point guard does come to mind as a first "need" - Kyrie would be my first choice, but one and dones were excluded too.
I was thinking Kyrie was more of .33 and done, since he missed most of the year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Duhon first. Then Duhon second. Then Duhon third. He'd be amazing on this team, with his defense and smart PG play.

[OldPhiKap]

nm -- brain fart

[ipatent]

No one has mentioned Spanarkel yet, but I think the consensus is we would want someone who could apply defensive pressure. Amaker, Duhon, Snyder, Wojo would all do nicely. Avery, Ewing, Scheyer, Smith were more combo guards, which we don't need on this team because of Luke and Grayson.

[Tripping William]

Patrick Davidson

[OldPhiKap]

Patrick Davidson

Well, that went without saying I thought.

[mattman91]

Demarcus Nelson could be an intriguing addition.
I am sure that wingspan gave everyone he covered nightmares.

One of my all time favorites. Loved that guy.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Nate mf james!

[jv001]

I will not pick a pt guard, but will go with one of these two: Tate Armstrong and Bob Verga. It would be fun to see how many points they would score with the three point line. Don't worry about the distance, they could hit the shot. But I agree the smart pick would be a good on the ball defender that can play the point guard position. GoDuke!

[Edouble]

Slight nod to soph Will Avery over senior Chris Duhon. Guy was a straight baller, and has long been underrated on this board.

[ricks68]

Patrick Davidson

Bingo! We have a winner! Now, can we start a thread on complaining why his jersey is not hanging from the rafters. (Wouldn't it be a great stunt if someone would get a fake jersey with his name on it and sneak it up there.;))

ricks

[BD80]

Patrick Davidson


Bingo! We have a winner! Now, can we start a thread on complaining why his jersey is not hanging from the rafters. (Wouldn't it be a great stunt if someone would get a fake jersey with his name on it and sneak it up there.;))

ricks

Like the rafters could hold his jersey!

[RPS]

This is a fun exercise. If the idea is to go with a combo guard who could handle the ball, then Jim Spanarkel and Tate Armstrong would be great choices. If the goal is a true point guard, I'd pick Tommy Amaker over Chris Duhon, but would be happy with either. If the idea is best player irrespective of position, there's Elton Brand, Mark Alarie and Gene Banks. But if I had to pick just one player for this coming season's team, with the "not in the rafters" and no "one-and-done" players criteria, I'd pick Bob Verga (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=220810). Great player. Fantastic shooter. Clutch. And he proved in the pros that he could play the point very well.

[ricks68]

Like the rafters could hold his jersey!

I forgot about that. He would be the only one able to put a jersey up there without using a ladder, however.

ricks

[mike88]

I am surprised no one has suggested Chris Carawell - great glue guy, top defender, blended well on the 1999 team, and could even play some point

[6th Man]

I'm thinking Joey Beard. Nah maybe not. Hurley or Tyus Jones. Pg's that's were clutch. Even this squad is going to need a clutch shot or two.

[aimo]

Dave Brown and Doug Peterson. Oh, you meant basketball.

[aswewere]

Shane Battier would bring the chemistry, the ball would be just fine.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

If we're gonna actually stick to the concept of no OADs and no one with their jersey in the rafters, I'd go:

1. Nolan
2. Duhon
3. T Hill -- dude does not get the love around here that he deserves!

[IsInTheDetails]

On seeing the title of this thread, I immediately thought "Ross Martin." Silly me.

But for the right sport, I'll throw in another vote for Duhon. The guy could run the offense and be a force on defense, but his hustle and verve were always tops.

My second choice would be senior year Quinn Cook, the ultimate leader.

[jafarr1]

On seeing the title of this thread, I immediately thought "Ross Martin." Silly me.

But for the right sport, I'll throw in another vote for Duhon. The guy could run the offense and be a force on defense, but his hustle and verve were always tops.

My second choice would be senior year Quinn Cook, the ultimate leader.

Funny. I was about to write in Vince Oghobaase, but Martin's an excellent choice as well.

[quahog174]

Koubek for leadership and intangibles.

[WWBD]

Bobby Hurley, winner.

Loser. Follow the rules.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

..to this year's team, who would it be? To make things more interesting, let's exclude one and dones as well as players who have their numbers in the rafters.


Dave Brown and Doug Peterson. Oh, you meant basketball.
Dave Brown and Ben Bennett were my first two thoughts. Tommy Amaker was my next. 😎

Retire 34! You just got Spanarkel'd!

[dukelifer]

Wojo- can play the point AND coach the big men. Seriously- Grant Hill. Great defender- versatile and he nearly won a NC as a senior with no real bench. He was arguably the most important player in Duke's history.

[ipatent]

Wojo- can play the point AND coach the big men. Seriously- Grant Hill. Great defender- versatile and he nearly won a NC as a senior with no real bench. He was arguably the most important player in Duke's history.

I think he was the best player in Duke history, Dawkins may have had more impact as a program changer.

[InSpades]

No one has mentioned one of my favorite Duke players so I'll do it...

Give me Kyle Singler on any Duke team ever. LOVED watching him play and he could basically fit in anywhere except the point (which admittedly might be our biggest need). Still think it's a shame his # isn't hanging in the rafters. I will always remember him coming in his freshman year and spending time banging in the low blocks to keep Duke in games. Then by the time he was a senior he could basically play shooting guard.

If you really want a PG... give me Scheyer. Steady as it comes.

Another name not mentioned... Will Avery. Always thought he had tremendous talent, though maybe it wasn't ever as focused as it could have been. Would be fun to watch him run the show w/ as much talent as this team will put on the court.

[Edouble]

No one has mentioned one of my favorite Duke players so I'll do it...

Give me Kyle Singler on any Duke team ever. LOVED watching him play and he could basically fit in anywhere except the point (which admittedly might be our biggest need). Still think it's a shame his # isn't hanging in the rafters. I will always remember him coming in his freshman year and spending time banging in the low blocks to keep Duke in games. Then by the time he was a senior he could basically play shooting guard.

If you really want a PG... give me Scheyer. Steady as it comes.

Another name not mentioned... Will Avery. Always thought he had tremendous talent, though maybe it wasn't ever as focused as it could have been. Would be fun to watch him run the show w/ as much talent as this team will put on the court.

No, Avery has been mentioned throughout the thread:


Quin Snyder played key role to help his team get to 3 Final Fours in 4 years as pg
or Will Avery. I loved that 99 team who I watched in Cameron, so I'm biased.


No one has mentioned Spanarkel yet, but I think the consensus is we would want someone who could apply defensive pressure. Amaker, Duhon, Snyder, Wojo would all do nicely. Avery, Ewing, Scheyer, Smith were more combo guards, which we don't need on this team because of Luke and Grayson.


Slight nod to soph Will Avery over senior Chris Duhon. Guy was a straight baller, and has long been underrated on this board.

[InSpades]

No, Avery has been mentioned throughout the thread:

Guess I missed it! But definitely agree... I love Duhon but from a talent perspective... I think Avery was closer to the J-Will/Kyrie level. He obviously never put it all together but he was spectacular at times. Maybe this team doesn't need spectacular but... it would be something to see for sure.

[Richard Berg]

Laken?

[fidel]

I'll take Tyus Stones back to stir this drink. We have lots of scoring and leadership, I'd be happier with a sure-thing distributor.

This was a pleasure remembering all the great-not-legendary players we have had. Most would be legendary at other schools.

[Wahoo2000]

With all due respect to Amaker, Duhon, Wojo, Cook, and every other guy mentioned in this thread that fits the parameters of NO 1-and-done, and NO jerseys in the rafters:

I don't think it's definitive that any of those guys would play a major role for you this year ahead of Kennard, and obviously not ahead of Allen or Tatum (if you slide Kennard and Allen down to off-guard/wing). When the best guy you can come up with is coming off the bench (or at least it's a possibility he'd come off the bench).......... you're BEYOND stacked.

This is just another exercise in how absurd your roster is this year. Much like Kentucky a couple of seasons ago, I'm going to enjoy watching Duke play - aside from the fact that my Hoos are supposed to be "battling" you for a spot in the ACC pecking order.

[flyingdutchdevil]

With all due respect to Amaker, Duhon, Wojo, Cook, and every other guy mentioned in this thread that fits the parameters of NO 1-and-done, and NO jerseys in the rafters:

I don't think it's definitive that any of those guys would play a major role for you this year ahead of Kennard, and obviously not ahead of Allen or Tatum (if you slide Kennard and Allen down to off-guard/wing). When the best guy you can come up with is coming off the bench (or at least it's a possibility he'd come off the bench)...... you're BEYOND stacked.

This is just another exercise in how absurd your roster is this year. Much like Kentucky a couple of seasons ago, I'm going to enjoy watching Duke play - aside from the fact that my Hoos are supposed to be "battling" you for a spot in the ACC pecking order.

A true PG - ie one who is either a better passer than scorer (Amaker) or a great combination of both (Duhon, Cook) - who also provides defensive pressure is exactly what this team is missing. It's cherry picking at this point, and hopefully it isn't too much of a liability. And I absolutely believe that a senior Cook, senior Amaker, and senior Duhon would start ahead of Kennard, M Jones, or F Jackson any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Those three players are legends. Kennard is building his own legacy, and we'd be lucky if Kennard is put in a similar bucket as those players.

[jldukie]

I think a little dose of Martin 'the Puma' Nessley is what this team needs.

[MChambers]

A true PG - ie one who is either a better passer than scorer (Amaker) or a great combination of both (Duhon, Cook) - who also provides defensive pressure is exactly what this team is missing. It's cherry picking at this point, and hopefully it isn't too much of a liability. And I absolutely believe that a senior Cook, senior Amaker, and senior Duhon would start ahead of Kennard, M Jones, or F Jackson any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Those three players are legends. Kennard is building his own legacy, and we'd be lucky if Kennard is put in a similar bucket as those players.

+1

I was going to say essentially the same thing.

[COYS]

I accept the rules and I'll also follow some other conditions of my own. As much as Elton would be an obvious choice, even with the front court talent on the team this year, there's just no realistic way recruits like Giles and Bolden commit to Duke if Elton were on the team, already, so I'm not gonna go there. I feel like the same could be said about Boozer and Kyle (who probably would have stopped Jayson from committing). So I'm not counting them because otherwise it would just be too hard to choose. And while I remember the '91 and '92 seasons, I was far too young to REALLY remember them, so I don't feel qualified to pick between some of the talented players on those rosters or any preceding year (yeah, I know, that excludes a bevy of amazing players, but that's just how it is).

As for this year's Duke team, I see our main question marks being defense, point guard, and shooting, which puts me in a bit of conundrum. If Grayson and Luke are able to handle point guard duties on offense and defense, then my choices would open up a bit. But I'm going to assume that pg stays our weakest area (even if it doesn't prove to be a liability, as I don't think it will, at least not on offense).

On the one hand, a pure point who plays excellent defense at the point of attack and can relieve Grayson and Luke from shouldering ball handling duties like Duhon could be perfect. But his streaky three point shooting gives me pause, especially since only Grayson and Matt have proven to be consistent threats from three and Matt is really only a threat when completely wide open.

Nolan was a sensational defender his last two seasons, though probably never quite as quick as Duhon. By his senior year he flashed some solid combo guard skills. He also is more of a threat from three point range. But Nolan was never a pure point guard and, with the wealth of offensive talent we have on the team, I'm not totally sure how he would fit, but maybe I shouldn't worry and just embrace the fact that a senior Nolan/Junior Grayson backcourt would probably end up being the highest scoring backcourt in Duke history . . . with Luke and Frank to back them up.

There is Will Avery. He was super fast with the ball and could help Duke push the tempo, allowing Harry, Jayson, and Grayson to get out in transition for what would be a parade of highlight reel fast-break dunks. While he was far from the only star on that dominant '99 team, he probably deserves more credit than he gets for piloting the offense to an undefeated ACC record, an ACC Title, and the NCAA Tourney Final. He clearly demonstrated he could play on a team with an array of offensive talent. And though KenPom rankings don't go back that far, I'd be surprised if that team didn't have a top 5 defense. I was younger and not quite as well versed in the nuances of defense at the time, so it's hard for me to remember just how good Will was on that side of the ball, but he clearly could not have been bad.

Quinn is also an obvious choice even if he wasn't running the offense his senior season. He showed incredible humility and commitment to the team by playing a reduced offensive role to perfection. He adds leadership and shooting and heart. And he was no slouch in the scoring department, either, and, despite being undersized, transformed into a solid defender by the end of his career.

Finally, there's Jon. If I were picking entirely with my heart, it would be Jon. To this day, I believe that if he had been given the keys to Duke's offense earlier in his career, he would have his jersey in the rafters. And his defense has long been underrated. Actually, he and Kyle both are two of the best off-ball defenders Duke has ever had. While we'd probably have to play at a slower tempo with Jon running the show compared to Will Avery, the upgrade in pure efficiency might be worth it. Also, with Jon, Grayson AND Luke on the court to close out games, we'd have three lights out free throw shooters to shut the door on opponents trying to make a comeback. Plus, Jon was a great scorer and an underrated play-maker.

Honestly, I'd love to have any of these five guys. But out of those five, I'm going with Will Avery if only because I think it would be really, really fun to see this team have a point guard with real jets leading the offense. I think it's a risky pick passing on ACC POY senior Nolan, ACC POY runner up and national champ senior Jon, national champ senior Quinn, and All ACC steady hand and strong defender senior Duhon. Avery's individual accomplishments don't quite reach the level of Jon or Nolan (nor are they necessarily better than Chris or Quinn), but why not give this team some flair? Avery averaged over 14 ppg, handed out 5 apg, and shot better than 40% from three. His ability to push the ball would add an extra dimension to a team that already has plenty of talent at the combo and wing spots. He was a solid free throw shooter, too, so he'd be a deadly weapon to have on the court in a "death" lineup that featured Avery, Grayson, Luke, Jayson, and Harry. I just can't imagine how much fun it would be to watch next year's team play at a fast pace with a guy like Avery leading the way. Many Duke fans have likened the talent of this coming year's team to the '99 team. So why not have the point guard of that team lead this one? And this time, we finish the job.

As a side note, guys like DeMarcus and Capel need to be mentioned for their virtuoso defensive abilities and versatility. I can't believe Dunleavy hasn't been mentioned yet, as we could play him at shooting guard and have a ridiculous size advantage at every position. Again, though, he could have posed a road block for Jayson. Trajan would solve our three point shooting problems and was a seriously talented player that sometimes gets lost and is very much worth considering. Ewing was mentioned upthread, but he also deserves some love. And I'd even consider Gerald Henderson, who, despite not being a three point shooter or a ball handler, would make this team ridiculously physically strong. Plus, watching Grayson and Gerald compete for most ridiculous dunk all year would be really fun (Gerald would win. Grayson has hops, but Gerald would win). Dahntay is another guy that deserves at least a mention, even if we're probably set on the wing this year. And he'd also throw down some ferocious jams. Duke has had so many amazing players. It's really hard to choose.

[Spanarkel]

Danny Meagher, as every great team NEEDS an enforcer.

[Turk]

I think a little dose of Martin 'the Puma' Nessley is what this team needs.

Especially if "The Big Cat" is rocking his 'stache...

But Alex, let's go with "Wacko Canadians" for $1000.

Question: "This player was the first take-no-prisoners BAMF in the Coach K era, the prototype for later players such as Nate James."

Answer: "Who is 'Thunder' Dan Meagher?"

[OldPhiKap]

I think a little dose of Martin 'the Puma' Nessley is what this team needs.

True. Especially because Marty never fouls.

[OldPhiKap]

Danny Meagher, as every great team NEEDS an enforcer.

Where's Tom Sheehey when you need him?

[Lennies]

I have to go with Tommy Amaker. If he didn't steal the ball from you, you still had to avoid the 5 second count. Very disruptive!

[killerleft]

Danny Meagher, as every great team NEEDS an enforcer.

LOL, I thought of Danny, too. I'm not sure he sets a perfect example of the attitude we would like to see emulated, but he didn't take crap from anybody. We'd have to reclaim those seats behind the visitors' bench, to get the two-level effect.

[RPS]

With all due respect to Amaker, Duhon, Wojo, Cook, and every other guy mentioned in this thread that fits the parameters of NO 1-and-done, and NO jerseys in the rafters:

I don't think it's definitive that any of those guys would play a major role for you this year ahead of Kennard, and obviously not ahead of Allen or Tatum...

It should be obvious that I hope Luke (as with the whole team) has a fantastic year. But more than a little historical context is needed. As others have pointed out, the referenced four players were all wonderful college players. None of the current team, save Grayson Allen, has demonstrated that level *yet*. I expect several to, but it still must be shown.

Even more importantly, consider the players before your time. Jack Marin hasn't gotten much attention in this thread, but he was First Team All-ACC twice and averaged 15 PPG over a very good 15-year NBA career (with two All-Star game appearances). Or take Tate Armstrong. He was hurt for much of his senior year, but he averaged more than 24 points a game as a junior and was an excellent passer. He went on to win an Olympic gold medal. Bob Verga was my choice in this exercise. Freshmen weren't eligible when he played, but he was First Team All-ACC all three years he played (I think Heyman, Mullins and Gminski are the only other Duke players to make First Team All-ACC three times), All-American twice, and averaged over 26 points a game from the point guard spot. He was a *career* 20 PPG player over an 11-year career in the pros. Perhaps most significantly, had he not gotten sick at the Final Four, Duke may well have won its first national championship in 1966. These three were all great shooters and would have benefited tremendously from the 3-point shot had it been available, almost surely making their stats even more impressive.

I get that most people on this board haven't seen these older players. But even if you haven't, the numbers speak for themselves. Marin, Armstrong and Verga surely would have "played a role" on this season's team. Sorry, but it's as "definitive" as this sort of thing can ever be.

[AtlDuke72]

How can Tyus Jones get such little support? Amaker, Hurley, Irving and Jones are the best the Devils have had at point IMO>

[AtlDuke72]

How can Tyus Jones get such little support? Amaker, Hurley, Irving and Jones are the best the Devils have had at point IMO>

If you could add Johnny Dawkins or Grant Hill there would be no point in playing the games this year !

[grad_devil]

How can Tyus Jones get such little support? Amaker, Hurley, Irving and Jones are the best the Devils have had at point IMO>


If you could add Johnny Dawkins or Grant Hill there would be no point in playing the games this year !

I believe the rules were a) no one and dones, and b) nobody with their jersey in the rafters. This eliminates, Jones, Hurly, Dawkins. Irving. I guess that leaves Amaker from your list.

[Avvocato]

If you are adding a former player to this team, I think it has to be a point guard. It's the only thing this team doesn't currently truly have (though we are assuming the freshmen play as advertised). Based on the criteria, I have to go with the one and only Jay Heaps. Of course, he may be unavailable, so I will otherwise take Will Avery or Chris Duhon for this particular season.

[Troublemaker]

A true PG - ie one who is either a better passer than scorer (Amaker) or a great combination of both (Duhon, Cook) - who also provides defensive pressure is exactly what this team is missing. It's cherry picking at this point, and hopefully it isn't too much of a liability. And I absolutely believe that a senior Cook, senior Amaker, and senior Duhon would start ahead of Kennard, M Jones, or F Jackson any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Those three players are legends. Kennard is building his own legacy, and we'd be lucky if Kennard is put in a similar bucket as those players.


+1

I was going to say essentially the same thing.

I concur as well. Call me old-fashioned, but I want a true point guard (for offense and defense) on my team if possible. Amaker would be my pick.

[Wahoo2000]

...And I absolutely believe that a senior Cook, senior Amaker, and senior Duhon would start ahead of Kennard, M Jones, or F Jackson any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Those three players are legends. Kennard is building his own legacy, and we'd be lucky if Kennard is put in a similar bucket as those players.

Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed by those other guys statistically (EDIT - I'm not looking at their senior years, but what they had done going INTO those years, much like how you have to rate Kennard on how he looks going INTO this year), but I can see what they bring to the table defensively. Plus I forgot how badly Kennard struggled with his shooting the 1st half of last year. Mentally, I had him as a 40+% guy from deep. Eventually, I do expect him to exceed those other guys on the offensive (scoring) end of the court - I was shocked at how mediocre of a shooter Duhon was (statistically), and based on recent memory, I don't think Cook seemed like a very special player until his final season. Amaker is outside my memory span as a fan by just a few years.

I guess the real point of my post was that I think Kennard is a player who is going to have a fantastic career - in fact, I think if Allen had gone pro, you'd see him explode this year. Just saw too many instances of him displaying really clutch play down the stretch in some games (like Utah maybe? I'm too lazy to look it up). I think he's a little underrated athletically too - he's a more than capable defender, and going to be a SPECIAL offensive player.

Jeez - now it sounds like I have a man-crush on a white Duke guard... I think the mere accusation of such a thing could get me banned for life on my home boards (or really almost any cbb board besides the Duke ones, lol)

[MChambers]

Jeez - now it sounds like I have a man-crush on a white Duke guard... I think the mere accusation of such a thing could get me banned for life on my home boards (or really almost any cbb board besides the Duke ones, lol)

If Kennard played for UVa, your home boards would be crazy about him. Luckily for us, he plays for Duke.

[weezie]

How can Tyus Jones get such little support? Amaker, Hurley, Irving and Jones are the best the Devils have had at point IMO>

Hear hear!!! How soon some folks forget!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How 'bout zoobs??

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

How can Tyus Jones get such little support? Amaker, Hurley, Irving and Jones are the best the Devils have had at point IMO>

How about Jason Williams?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How about Jason Williams?

He was retired.

Do we know how to play without a Plumlee?

[Wander]

Do we know how to play without a Plumlee?

I think you are half-joking, but I would choose Miles or Mason Plumlee over all the answers listed here so far (Elton Brand technically fits the criteria listed in the OP but I think violates it in spirit, so I'm excluding him from consideration).

I'm more confident that some combination of Luke, Grayson, Matt, and Frank will provide good point guard play than I am in our interior defensive abilities. We're Duke - we ALWAYS have great guard play. The worry about not having a "true PG" strikes me as very similar to the same worry for 2010, and I think it will resolve itself similarly. But our defense and rebounding has been a relative weak point in many recent seasons. I'd rather team up Amile Jefferson with a Plumlee and give Duke a super rebounding duo with shot blocking added in to go along with what is guaranteed to be a great offense.

[NSDukeFan]

He was retired.

Do we know how to play without a Plumlee?

I'm going to have to try to remember what it's like to cheer for Duke without a Plumlee.

[ricks68]

Per the rules, I choose Amaker. In spite of being a Yuge Verga fan, I still would not pick him, however. I watched him play up close during his entire varsity years, and not only was his position not at point, but defense was mostly a stranger to him. With Vacendak as his back court partner, his job was to just plain shoot------which he successfully did over and over and over again.:D (I believe, along with many others, that he would have had anywhere from a 4 to 7 point increase in his scoring average had the 3 point line existed during his tenure at Duke.) Since I brought up Steve Vacendak, maybe that's the guy that also should be considered: Outstanding leader, superb defender, remarkable ball handler, and excellent scorer when needed. He had quite a few 20+ point games to go along with his All-ACC and MVP awards.

ricks

[OldPhiKap]

I'm going to have to try to remember what it's like to cheer for Duke without a Plumlee.

It's tough. We only had three national championships. Sad.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Per the rules, I choose Amaker. In spite of being a Yuge Verga fan, I still would not pick him, however. I watched him play up close during his entire varsity years, and not only was his position not at point, but defense was mostly a stranger to him. With Vacendak as his back court partner, his job was to just plain shoot------which he successfully did over and over and over again.:D (I believe, along with many others, that he would have had anywhere from a 4 to 7 point increase in his scoring average had the 3 point line existed during his tenure at Duke.) Since I brought up Steve Vacendak, maybe that's the guy that also should be considered: Outstanding defense, superb defender, remarkable ball handler, and excellent scorer when needed. He had quite a few 20+ point games to go along with his All-ACC and MVP awards.

ricks

I would agree with your Amaker nomination.

[Troublemaker]

I think you are half-joking, but I would choose Miles or Mason Plumlee over all the answers listed here so far (Elton Brand technically fits the criteria listed in the OP but I think violates it in spirit, so I'm excluding him from consideration).

I'm more confident that some combination of Luke, Grayson, Matt, and Frank will provide good point guard play than I am in our interior defensive abilities. We're Duke - we ALWAYS have great guard play. The worry about not having a "true PG" strikes me as very similar to the same worry for 2010, and I think it will resolve itself similarly. But our defense and rebounding has been a relative weak point in many recent seasons. I'd rather team up Amile Jefferson with a Plumlee and give Duke a super rebounding duo with shot blocking added in to go along with what is guaranteed to be a great offense.

Once again, it's strange how differently two fans can view things. Here, I'm wondering why we would need rebounding and shotblocking from Plumlees when we already have those areas covered by Jefferson, Giles, Bolden, and Jeter.

I would agree that the odds are in our favor that the committee will produce good PG play. But adding a senior Amaker or Duhon makes it a lock that we'll get great PG play. With rebounding and rim protection, I think we're already close to a lock to be great at those with the current roster. I think the value-added of Amaker is greater.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

From another thread... Justise would be a very nice piece on this team... and is even age appropriate!

[killerleft]

Tommy Amaker is the guy everybody would want once they saw him practice with our present players. He was a coach on the floor, and I truly believe Coach K would pick him, too (at least within the rules set forth here).

His defense was a very big reason that Johnny Dawkins could exercise the freedom of movement on offense that was his hallmark. What a pair! Johnny played some excellent defense, too.

[RPS]

Per the rules, I choose Amaker. In spite of being a Yuge Verga fan, I still would not pick him, however. I watched him play up close during his entire varsity years, and not only was his position not at point, but defense was mostly a stranger to him. With Vacendak as his back court partner, his job was to just plain shoot------which he successfully did over and over and over again.:D (I believe, along with many others, that he would have had anywhere from a 4 to 7 point increase in his scoring average had the 3 point line existed during his tenure at Duke.) Since I brought up Steve Vacendak, maybe that's the guy that also should be considered: Outstanding leader, superb defender, remarkable ball handler, and excellent scorer when needed. He had quite a few 20+ point games to go along with his All-ACC and MVP awards.

I can't argue against Amaker and Vacendak would be a great choice too even though I think you're making a point guard/off-guard distinction with Vacendak and Verga that didn't really exist at the time (at least as I recall). Those teams didn't have a clearly defined point guard role (again, as I recall -- and there aren't statistical or video records sufficient to establish a clearer answer). In picking Verga I was also thinking of his fine playmaking in the pros and I may have conflated those games with those in Durham.

Excellent addition to the commentary.

[nmduke2001]

..to this year's team, who would it be? To make things more interesting, let's exclude one and dones as well as players who have their numbers in the rafters.

In case people are not reading the original post, there were some rules (see above)....Those rules would exclude Tyus, Shane, Grant, Justise, Jason, Dawkins and a several others that people are putting as obvious choices.

[chrishoke]

David Henderson. Great sixth man, defender, Mr. Clutch.

[rasputin]

Under the thread rules, it has to be Tommy.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Under the thread rules, it has to be Tommy.

On this team, Amaker does make sense. He gives this team what it most certainly lacks (elite ball stopper on defense) and most likely what it lacks (passing PG). Also, Amaker was a mediocre scorer, and this team doesn't need scoring in the slightest.

I like Amaker, but I'd still take Duhon. Duhon could mesh with any team right away. His freshman and senior teams were so different yet Duhon made it work. Me likes Duhon.

[Channing]

I haven't seen the name mentioned, and not sure I would pick him, but with the talent on this team, Greg Paulus would be an interesting option. I know he has defensive limitations, but hopefully the back end of the defense can cover. As a freshman, with huge talent around him, he was an assist machine. With this team, as an upper class man, I think he would run the show beautifully.

[duke4ever19]

Christian Laettner. A proven winner that would give the whole team a baptism of fire in what it means to compete and leave it all on the floor. He and Grayson would be a great duo.

[Olympic Fan]

I can't argue against Amaker and Vacendak would be a great choice too even though I think you're making a point guard/off-guard distinction with Vacendak and Verga that didn't really exist at the time (at least as I recall). Those teams didn't have a clearly defined point guard role (again, as I recall -- and there aren't statistical or video records sufficient to establish a clearer answer). In picking Verga I was also thinking of his fine playmaking in the pros and I may have conflated those games with those in Durham.

Excellent addition to the commentary.

Let me second that. Vacendak was no more a point guard than Grayson Allen or Nolan Smith. In fact, I would suggest that for his era, his game was a lot like Nolan's.

He actually played as much small forward as guard early in his career. On the great 1965 team (when Vacendak was a junior), Denny Ferguson played guard alongside Verga and Vacendak played forward (no one called it a three-guard set in those days). In 1966, Bubas went smaller and Vacendak played guard alongside Verga (with Marin, Riedy and Lewis up front). We don't have assist totals from that year, but in my memory, Verga and Vacendak shared the playmaking role. Vacendak averaged 13.3 ppg, so he certainly got his share of shots.

Vacendak had an interesting career in that he never made first-team All-ACC. As a senior, he finished second-team and was the ninth-leading vote-getter in the league.

Then he stepped up big in the ACC Tournament (an event Duke had to win to get an NCAA bid) and when the vote was taken for ACC Player of the Year the week after the tournament, Vacendak was voted as ACC Player of the Year as Marin, Verga and UNC's Bob Lewis (who led the league in scoring by a wide margin) split the vote.

He's still the only player to be voted ACC Player of the Year without making first-team All-ACC.

[ipatent]

On this team, Amaker does make sense. He gives this team what it most certainly lacks (elite ball stopper on defense) and most likely what it lacks (passing PG). Also, Amaker was a mediocre scorer, and this team doesn't need scoring in the slightest.

I like Amaker, but I'd still take Duhon. Duhon could mesh with any team right away. His freshman and senior teams were so different yet Duhon made it work. Me likes Duhon.

Amaker's scoring increased significantly his senior year, when it had to with Dawkins and Alarie gone. He was a team player, and probably a bit better defensively than Duhon.

[BluDvlsN1]

Fun thread…really good insights on a wide range of great players, who could disagree.
For me considering this team we have to enjoy this year, I would consider Mike Dunleavy.

He was recruited as a point guard, and grew multiple inches (6 or 8) as I recall, before
showed up on campus.

He could fit a range of positions on this team, was a good team player, saw the court and passed well.
He could even potentially play some point on this team.

[crf30]

Everyone has done a good job of pointing out this team's biggest needs: on-ball stopper and a point guard.
It kinds of sucks to know that Derryck could address both of those needs.

[killerleft]

Everyone has done a good job of pointing out this team's biggest needs: on-ball stopper and a point guard.
It kinds of sucks to know that Derryck could address both of those needs.

Agreed.

[Wander]

With rebounding and rim protection, I think we're already close to a lock to be great at those with the current roster.

I guess this is my disagreement. It is fairly difficult for me to imagine our point guard situation not working out. Though I think the scenario I'm about to describe is not especially likely, it's not as difficult for me to imagine that Giles doesn't really return to his best form after a serious injury, Bolden doesn't play with a ton of defensive intensity in his first year (something that's been mentioned in scouting reports), and Jeter continues to not be able to crack the rotation. Jefferson I have confidence in, but one good - or even elite - rebounder doesn't necessarily imply a good rebounding team overall.

[Indoor66]

I hope you don't injure yourself getting into bed tonight.

[Olympic Fan]

Agreed.

I disagree ... Derryck did have promise to be a better on-the-ball defender than anyone left on the roster (although not in a class with Amaker or Duhon).

But his playmaking skills left a LOT to be desired. A year ago, Grayson and Matt were better playmakers. He had potential as a scorer -- but Grayson, Luke and Jackson all appear to be better suited for that role.

I think one of the reasons that Derryck bolted was because he could see himself getting squeezed out of the perimeter rotation.

I think his departure does little to hurt this year's team.

I do think he would have come into his own in 2017-18 however. I think a junior Thornton would be a better player than a freshman Matt Coleman-of-Quade Green.

[ipatent]

I think one of the reasons that Derryck bolted was because he could see himself getting squeezed out of the perimeter rotation.

I suspect his Dad wanted a guarantee, which wasn't forthcoming for previously stated reasons, but he could have played his way to the starting PG position. He walked away from a supporting cast that could have made him look very good, that's for sure.

[Bob Green]

..to this year's team, who would it be? To make things more interesting, let's exclude one and dones as well as players who have their numbers in the rafters.

Tommy Amaker. He was really, really good. A lock down defender and pass first point guard who could score.

[ricks68]

Let me second that. Vacendak was no more a point guard than Grayson Allen or Nolan Smith. In fact, I would suggest that for his era, his game was a lot like Nolan's.

He actually played as much small forward as guard early in his career. On the great 1965 team (when Vacendak was a junior), Denny Ferguson played guard alongside Verga and Vacendak played forward (no one called it a three-guard set in those days). In 1966, Bubas went smaller and Vacendak played guard alongside Verga (with Marin, Riedy and Lewis up front). We don't have assist totals from that year, but in my memory, Verga and Vacendak shared the playmaking role. Vacendak averaged 13.3 ppg, so he certainly got his share of shots.

Vacendak had an interesting career in that he never made first-team All-ACC. As a senior, he finished second-team and was the ninth-leading vote-getter in the league.

Then he stepped up big in the ACC Tournament (an event Duke had to win to get an NCAA bid) and when the vote was taken for ACC Player of the Year the week after the tournament, Vacendak was voted as ACC Player of the Year as Marin, Verga and UNC's Bob Lewis (who led the league in scoring by a wide margin) split the vote.

He's still the only player to be voted ACC Player of the Year without making first-team All-ACC.

Good points by both you and RPS. Do y'all remember who was the point guard assigned to break the famed "UCLA press" the year UCLA came to the "Lost Weekend in Carolina", however? I think that display of talent, coupled with his scoring ability and defense, cemented Vacendak's role as the point guard IMVHO. Vacendak ran the show as far as I am concerned, and took over after Ferguson graduated. Verga was not even close to the ball handler that is required for the point guard position. Vacendak had every quality for a truly excellent point guard. Too bad they didn't keep assist stats back then. (And too bad they didn't have the 3 point shot for Verga. It was such a great experience being in the Indoor Stadium holding up two fingers and screaming "two, Verga, two! as the the ball left his hand from somewhere outside the top of the key area. His form was just so pretty to watch. I am old. Just an old "Crustie". Sigh.:(:):p

ricks

[gep]

I suspect his Dad wanted a guarantee, which wasn't forthcoming for previously stated reasons, but he could have played his way to the starting PG position. He walked away from a supporting cast that could have made him look very good, that's for sure.

As posted above, I also think that Greg Paulus was a beneficiary of a great scoring "supporting" cast... so might be a good comparision. But also because of this year's great scoring "support cast", I think a combination of Grayson, Matt, Frank, and Luke will do just fine.

[BD80]

Tommy Amaker. He was really, really good. A lock down defender and pass first point guard who could score.

I'll play. And vote for Tommy. Skill set is perfect for this team. But more important for me is the way he would fit in with his teammates. Senior Tommy would provide the quiet leadership while allowing Amile and Matt and Grayson to lead the team in other ways. This team is REALLY young and Amaker would be an outstanding teammate for the youngsters. Laetner probably wouldn't be a good choice for this group.

Billy King would be up there in my choices as the best defender Duke has ever had, the type of defensive effort that raises the effort of the rest of the team. I would love to see Matt channel Billy King this year.

If we could pick any player, it would have to be Grant Hill. He could do anything asked of him on the basketball court.

[ipatent]

Tommy Amaker. He was really, really good. A lock down defender and pass first point guard who could score.

The difference between 11-17 and 24-10, and the program never looked back.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I completely agree with the consensus that we would want a pure PG and that Amaker would be the best fit based on the criteria. But I will throw one more name out there for discussion - Chris Carrawell. He played all five positions, so while far from a pure PG, he could help out there and elsewhere. And his personality, character and leadership were unmatched.

[devilsince1977]

If we were still in the 80's; I would agree with Tommy A. as the best choice. In 2016, the game has become much more physical. Teams look for a mismatch to take advantage of. Due to Tommy's small statue and slight build; I think he would be taken advantage of defensively. Bigger stronger point guards would muscle him into the paint where help would have to come. I would pick Duhon. Although he was not a big PG; by his senior year, he was much more physical than Tommy. He also had very long arms and could do most of the things Amaker could do. I also think that Scheyer would be a great fit.

[COYS]

If we were still in the 80's; I would agree with Tommy A. as the best choice. In 2016, the game has become much more physical. Teams look for a mismatch to take advantage of. Due to Tommy's small statue and slight build; I think he would be taken advantage of defensively. Bigger stronger point guards would muscle him into the paint where help would have to come. I would pick Duhon. Although he was not a big PG; by his senior year, he was much more physical than Tommy. He also had very long arms and could do most of the things Amaker could do. I also think that Scheyer would be a great fit.

Is this true, though, since freedom of movement rules have been introduced? I'd consider both Quinn and Tyus to be smaller (Quinn) or not as strong (Tyus) as Amaker and yet they started together on a team that became a defensive juggernaut in the tourney. Also, college teams are not great at taking advantage of mismatches like NBA teams are. I can't imagine that Amaker would be worse defensively than Tyus and Quinn . . . In fact, I'd think he'd be far superior, based on reputation. I did not get to see Amaker play in college, which is why I didn't pick him. My choice was Will Avery with his combination of speed and three point shooting ability because I think it would be fun to see this year's team play at a high tempo. That being said, it seems like a pass first, defense first point guard who could single-handedly take opposing pg out of the game like Amaker sounds like the PERFECT addition to this team.

[ipatent]

Tommy was extremely quick and fundamentally sound, even as a freshman. He and Dawkins were like a buzzsaw on defense, one of the best defensive guard combos in the history of the college game.

[AtlDuke72]

I believe the rules were a) no one and dones, and b) nobody with their jersey in the rafters. This eliminates, Jones, Hurly, Dawkins. Irving. I guess that leaves Amaker from your list.

You are right - did not read the rules. Amaker is my choice.

[magjayran]

It almost feels like cheating to say Tyus Jones but I'm gonna say Tyus Jones.

I agree about Duhom and Amaker being good choices as well. If we really want a defensive point guard, I think we could put Sean Dockery and Matt Jones on the floor at the same time when we really need a stop and feel pretty good about it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It almost feels like cheating to say Tyus Jones but I'm gonna say Tyus Jones.

I agree about Duhom and Amaker being good choices as well. If we really want a defensive point guard, I think we could put Sean Dockery and Matt Jones on the floor at the same time when we really need a stop and feel pretty good about it.

Comparing Matt Jones's D to Duhon's or Amaker's isn't fair to Duhon or Amaker. Those guys had hyper elite D; Matt Jones has been really good, but I don't think it's on the same page as the other two.

I like the Sean Dockery pick, but he adds one of two elements that this team is lacking: lock-down D. Duhon and Amaker also bring that second element: distribution.

[Edouble]

It almost feels like cheating to say Tyus Jones but I'm gonna say Tyus Jones.

I agree about Duhom and Amaker being good choices as well. If we really want a defensive point guard, I think we could put Sean Dockery and Matt Jones on the floor at the same time when we really need a stop and feel pretty good about it.

Well, it is cheating according to the rules that were laid out by the OP.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, it is cheating according to the rules that were laid out by the OP.

This thread is so much fun!

Why would we bother to stick to the rules outlined at the preface of the discussion? What is this, a presidential debate?

[Indoor66]

This thread is so much fun!

Why would we bother to stick to the rules outlined at the preface of the discussion? What is this, a presidential debate?

If it was you could totally ignore all rules and answer in Swahili.:p:cool:

[rsvman]

Great thread idea.

I'm going to have to go with Will Avery. Great combination of speed, athletic ability, distribution, and scoring prowess.

[superdave]

Amaker or Duhon. I think a lockdown defensive pg would be fantastic.

[ipatent]

I think even an Andre Buckner would be nice insurance for next year's team

[Edouble]

This thread is so much fun!

Why would we bother to stick to the rules outlined at the preface of the discussion? What is this, a presidential debate?

Well, I am one of those that thinks sticking to the rules makes things more fun.

I think bothering to stick to the rules, in this situation, makes the thread far more interesting. The OP is asking what small extra piece would you most like to see inserted into this year's Duke team, which appears to be a budding juggernaut.

Free to pick any former Blue Devil, everyone's answer should probably just be Grant Hill... kind of a boring thread. If Grant Hill was on this last year's team, we win the NCAA Championship.

With the OP's original stipulations, I think there is more nuance to be explored in each poster's choice.