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JBDuke
09-11-2016, 12:07 PM
Duke follows their first loss of the year with a tough road game at Northwestern. Put your pre-game and in-game thoughts here.

grossbus
09-11-2016, 12:13 PM
any TV?

Bob Green
09-11-2016, 12:17 PM
any TV?

Yes, the game is being aired on the Big Ten Network.

CameronBornAndBred
09-11-2016, 07:35 PM
Hunger game, both teams are coming off losses, both teams need this win badly. If NW loses, their post season hopes are probably in the tank (they'd be 0-3); if Duke loses there is still hope, but not much. Who is hungrier?
My guess is this is a game that Duke looked past Wake for, and paid the price. Does it at least that look ahead pay off in the end? Here's hoping.

hallcity
09-11-2016, 08:17 PM
Yes, the game is being aired on the Big Ten Network.
Do I have to spring for a B1G Network subscription to see it if I live in Raleigh and have TWC?

devildeac
09-11-2016, 08:31 PM
Forecast:

High: 75
Low: 61
Chance of rain: 50%

Bring your ponchos in your 6x12x6 clear plastic (~ 1 gallon-sized) bag.

DU82
09-11-2016, 09:14 PM
Do I have to spring for a B1G Network subscription to see it if I live in Raleigh and have TWC?

Channel 382.

hallcity
09-11-2016, 09:26 PM
Channel 382.
TV is telling me I need Sports Pass, which is $10, to see that channel.

sagegrouse
09-11-2016, 09:43 PM
TV is telling me I need Sports Pass, which is $10, to see that channel.

Don't be a wimp! :) DevilDeac and I have separately sprung for tickets to go to Evanston for the game. Although it is possible you can buy tix on the street for under $10, the early buyers like me paid full price plus air fare, etc.

Atldukie79
09-12-2016, 08:08 AM
Don't be a wimp! :) DevilDeac and I have separately sprung for tickets to go to Evanston for the game. Although it is possible you can buy tix on the street for under $10, the early buyers like me paid full price plus air fare, etc.

I am making the trip from Atlanta. Will join my son who moved to Chicago last year. So there will be at least 4 Duke fans in attendance!

Any ideas for game day experience in Evanston?

sagegrouse
09-12-2016, 08:30 AM
I am making the trip from Atlanta. Will join my son who moved to Chicago last year. So there will be at least 4 Duke fans in attendance!

Any ideas for game day experience in Evanston?

There is a Duke pre-game event, which is listed as sold out. But here's the link (http://rsvp.duke.edu/events/duke-pre-game-party-at-northwestern/event-summary-fbe247ac87f049d697e6dff2fe011dc4.aspx). It appears to be right at the stadium.

Sage

duke79
09-12-2016, 09:42 AM
Yes, the game is being aired on the Big Ten Network.

No ESPN-U or ESPN3 coverage? I would think there would be some national interest in this game. Heck, the Wake game was on ESPN-U.

I'm not sure I get the Big Ten Network on my DISH package?

Olympic Fan
09-12-2016, 12:51 PM
TV is telling me I need Sports Pass, which is $10, to see that channel.

I bought the sports pass about three years ago to see a Duke-Navy game that was on one of the sports-extra channels.

I intended to keep it one month, then cancel. I figured $8.95 (the cost at the time) was a fair price to see a Duke football game on the road.

But I soon found that I was getting a ton of extra sports channels. I ended up keeping that channel, even after I canceled all by movie channels.

So, my advice is, buy the sports channel for a month -- if all you watch is Duke-Northwestern, that's a fair deal. Then you can cancel .... if you don't find anything else worth your cash.

Dukehky
09-12-2016, 03:27 PM
Gonna be a real clash of the titans!

budwom
09-12-2016, 03:49 PM
There is a Duke pre-game event, which is listed as sold out. But here's the link (http://rsvp.duke.edu/events/duke-pre-game-party-at-northwestern/event-summary-fbe247ac87f049d697e6dff2fe011dc4.aspx). It appears to be right at the stadium.

Sage

Evanston is a nice place to see a game, fans are nice. I consider you lucky that the "Duke event" is sold out....unless you covet overpriced bad food.

ipatent
09-12-2016, 08:36 PM
They could claw their way back to preseason expectations by winning this one. It is important to show fight even in a rebuilding year, and I hope they do.

devildeac
09-12-2016, 11:11 PM
Evanston is a nice place to see a game, fans are nice. I consider you lucky that the "Duke event" is sold out...unless you covet overpriced bad food.

I just checked the Northwestern pre-game Duke tailgate link: $35 for "tailgate food" or some such bullpucky (thanks to Tripping William for that one from the Ymm, Beer thread) and soft drinks and iced tea. Cash bar. No thanks. We'll look for a tavern adjacent to the campus and have a sammich and an ale/glass of wine each for about the same price.

sagegrouse
09-12-2016, 11:18 PM
Evanston is a nice place to see a game, fans are nice. I consider you lucky that the "Duke event" is sold out...unless you covet overpriced bad food.

I am still living in the glow of my 50th reunion, when the University picked up the tab for drinks at our class party and then breakfast on Sunday.

Bob Green
09-13-2016, 04:51 AM
Vegas has NW as a 6.5 points favorite with the over/under at 44.5 points.

richmclean
09-13-2016, 09:29 AM
Whats the best way to get to the game? How is the parking situation?

hallcity
09-13-2016, 09:43 AM
Vegas has NW as a 6.5 points favorite with the over/under at 44.5 points.

That's a serious insult.

Dev11
09-13-2016, 10:04 AM
Whats the best way to get to the game? How is the parking situation?

I went to an NU game a few years ago, and we parked in a pay lot a few blocks from the stadium pretty easily. Michigan was the opponent, which I'm sure was a better attended game than this will be, so you shouldn't have a huge issue.

alteran
09-13-2016, 10:09 AM
That's a serious insult.

Probably fair given how we performed against Wake.

Not saying that's our ceiling this year, BTW. There were definitely elements of the game that were working. There was just a lot to work on as well.

Phoenix22
09-13-2016, 11:03 AM
My two universities are playing each other again! We should definitely be playing NU every year, along with Stanford, Notre Dame, and maybe Vanderbilt. These are (or should be) our out of conference rivals.

Best way to get to the game is simply to take the purple line from Chicago.

Go Duke!

peteandpete
09-13-2016, 11:36 AM
My two universities are playing each other again! We should definitely be playing NU every year, along with Stanford, Notre Dame, and maybe Vanderbilt. These are (or should be) our out of conference rivals.

Best way to get to the game is simply to take the purple line from Chicago.

Go Duke!

How about from the airport?

budwom
09-13-2016, 04:02 PM
Probably fair given how we performed against Wake.

Not saying that's our ceiling this year, BTW. There were definitely elements of the game that were working. There was just a lot to work on as well.

Yeah, seems reasonable to me.
Regarding getting to NU, it's a fair distance from O'Hare, we rented a car and that was an easy solution. Cab could be pretty pricey, and
my last cab ride in a Chicago cab was a foul experience, horrendously beat up car*, ignorant driver, won't be doing that soon.

* exposed springs in the half collapsed back "seat." Ludicrous.

sagegrouse
09-13-2016, 04:06 PM
Yeah, seems reasonable to me.
Regarding getting to NU, it's a fair distance from O'Hare, we rented a car and that was an easy solution. Cab could be pretty pricey, and
my last cab ride in a Chicago cab was a foul experience, horrendously beat up car*, ignorant driver, won't be doing that soon.

* exposed springs in the half collapsed back "seat." Ludicrous.

And there was a reason you got in this particular cab?

I will be driving from my daughter's house in Oak Park. It is an indirect route at best.

Acymetric
09-13-2016, 05:23 PM
I had great experiences with cabs, buses, and the rail system when I went to Chicago several years ago. Found it much easier to get around in general than New York, Atlanta, Boston, or D.C. but that may just be my experience.

devildeac
09-13-2016, 10:53 PM
Rumor has it (from a fairly reliable source: our younger son-in-law) that our tix will be at will call on Saturday afternoon/evening. ;)

CameronBornAndBred
09-13-2016, 11:15 PM
I had great experiences with cabs, buses, and the rail system when I went to Chicago several years ago. Found it much easier to get around in general than New York, Atlanta, Boston, or D.C. but that may just be my experience.

While we didn't stay in Chicago (we were in Tinley Park), my gf and I were there for a quick weekend in August, and were amazed at how awesome the trains worked getting us downtown and back. I'd guess they get you at least close to the game, too.
Side note, IF you have time, besides the Journey concert we were there to see, our favorite part of our weekend was the Chicago Botanic Gardens. Think Sarah P. Duke, on a truly grand scale. (Plus they have a butterfly house, which was total painting fodder.) We got there around 11am, had time to take in all of the gardens before we had to drive on to O'Hare at 1:30 for our flight out. They charge by the carload ($30 I think).

http://www.chicagobotanic.org

6646

6647

devildeac
09-14-2016, 07:45 AM
While we didn't stay in Chicago (we were in Tinley Park), my gf and I were there for a quick weekend in August, and were amazed at how awesome the trains worked getting us downtown and back. I'd guess they get you at least close to the game, too.
Side note, IF you have time, besides the Journey concert we were there to see, our favorite part of our weekend was the Chicago Botanic Gardens. Think Sarah P. Duke, on a truly grand scale. (Plus they have a butterfly house, which was total painting fodder.) We got there around 11am, had time to take in all of the gardens before we had to drive on to O'Hare at 1:30 for our flight out. They charge by the carload ($30 I think).

http://www.chicagobotanic.org

6646

6647

Senior citizen day is Tuesday and parking is $10 according to a fairly reliable source, close to but not quite as old as yours truly. :o

Great paintings, BTW.

devildeac
09-14-2016, 07:52 AM
I'm thinking here:

http://www.smyliebros.com/

or here:

https://worldofbeer.com/Locations/Evanston

or here:

https://www.loumalnatis.com/Evanston

Maybe 430 or 500 CST on Saturday?

We'll be driving in from Lexington, KY (aka the land of the missing D and E) to Lombard and then taking the light rail downtown and then the Purple Line to the Northwestern campus.

budwom
09-14-2016, 08:23 AM
And there was a reason you got in this particular cab?

I will be driving from my daughter's house in Oak Park. It is an indirect route at best.

indeed there was, it was procured by the doorman at our hotel....we didn't see the exposed springs until we were seated and underway, and sank about two feet (literally).
Probably should have made a scene, decided to be tolerant...

Devilwin
09-14-2016, 08:04 PM
Channel 610 on Direct TV.

CameronBornAndBred
09-14-2016, 08:46 PM
I don't know if you need the sports package (I have it, so I can't test it), but you can stream the game online if you sign in with your TV provider.

http://www.btn2go.com/game/duke-at-northwestern-on-09172016

So DirecTV (and everyone else) is an option; I don't know what happens if you DO have DTV but DON'T have the sports package. Someone in that scenario give it a shot and report back.

alteran
09-15-2016, 11:14 AM
I would really like to stream the game Saturday in Durham, but it looks like there are no options that don't require a pre-existing cable/satellite subscription.

I just want to confirm that's the case. I vaguely remember (paid) streaming options from either GoDuke or TheACC but can't seem to find them now. If anyone knows of anything, it would be much appreciated.

Bob Green
09-15-2016, 11:29 AM
Uniform for Northwestern game:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsZtWhuWIAAU_zj.jpg

luvdahops
09-15-2016, 11:55 AM
Uniform for Northwestern game:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsZtWhuWIAAU_zj.jpg

My favorite look for our road games, though I wish the shade of blue on the helmet matched a bit more closely

Line is down to 3.5 despite confirmation that NU star RB Justin Jackson is expected to play

devildeac
09-15-2016, 12:15 PM
My favorite look for our road games, though I wish the shade of blue on the helmet matched a bit more closely

Line is down to 3.5 despite confirmation that NU star RB Justin Jackson is expected to play


Yea, and we covered the WFU running game so well last Saturday :rolleyes: .

Avvocato
09-15-2016, 01:38 PM
Yea, and we covered the WFU running game so well last Saturday :rolleyes: .

Not sure if this has been covered yet, or at least in this thread, but this game may be the time to experiment with some 4-3 defensive fronts. Northwestern is not a big passing team. Maybe playing the third linebacker, whether it be Bere or Carmichael, may help stop the run and put Northwestern in tougher 3rd and longs. Again, you try not to overreact to any one game, but I think it's something we should at least be prepared to try if we are struggling against Northwestern's running attack.

devildeac
09-15-2016, 01:57 PM
Not sure if this has been covered yet, or at least in this thread, but this game may be the time to experiment with some 4-3 defensive fronts. Northwestern is not a big passing team. Maybe playing the third linebacker, whether it be Bere or Carmichael, may help stop the run and put Northwestern in tougher 3rd and longs. Again, you try not to overreact to any one game, but I think it's something we should at least be prepared to try if we are struggling against Northwestern's running attack.

I vaguely remember some discussion of this when the Army and GT games were discussed. I like the idea. Our DBs then must have better coverage and can't be forgetting about wide open WR like they did on that 60ish yard completion by WFU when we had them 3rd and 10 or so fairly deep in their own end of the field in the 2nd half.

Olympic Fan
09-15-2016, 02:36 PM
I vaguely remember some discussion of this when the Army and GT games were discussed. I like the idea. Our DBs then must have better coverage and can't be forgetting about wide open WR like they did on that 60ish yard completion by WFU when we had them 3rd and 10 or so fairly deep in their own end of the field in the 2nd half.

While not a bad idea long-term, I don't think you can change the fundamental defensive alignment in a week. The system is MUCH too complex for that.

The system does provide for the Strike Safety playing more of a LB role -- Cash did that very effectively in our last two victories over Georgia Tech. But switching to a new alignment or even moving a trained LB to Strike Safety is inviting the kind of coverage breakdowns that are so damaging.

Plus, we don't have a lot of depth at LB. We've only played five players at the position this year -- and the fifth guy is true freshman Koby Quansah. Now five guys for two positions is okay, but five guys for three positions is kind of a stretch and could lead to playing a kid before he's ready.

I can see Bere getting more snaps this week -- he's the strongest LB, even if he doesn't cover as much ground as Humphries or Gilles-Harris. If Northwestern tries to attack the middle, he could be very valuable.

On the other hand, I don't see the reason for making major adjustments for a struggling offense such as Northwestern. A year ago, we limited them to 271 yards total offense. The Northwestern offense managed one touchdown -- and that came on a 55-yard run on a short yardage play (much like Wake's last TD Saturday). It looks to me like their offense is weaker this year than a year ago -- through two games (against Western Michigan and Illinois State) they are averaging under 300 yards a game total offense. They've scored a grand total of 28 points against Western Michigan and FBS Illinois State.

Obviously, we can't make the same mistakes we made defensively against a bad Wake Forest offense. But neither do I think we need to made significant changes in our defense to deal with Northwestern's offense.

devildeac
09-15-2016, 02:48 PM
While not a bad idea long-term, I don't think you can change the fundamental defensive alignment in a week. The system is MUCH too complex for that.

The system does provide for the Strike Safety playing more of a LB role -- Cash did that very effectively in our last two victories over Georgia Tech. But switching to a new alignment or even moving a trained LB to Strike Safety is inviting the kind of coverage breakdowns that are so damaging.

Plus, we don't have a lot of depth at LB. We've only played five players at the position this year -- and the fifth guy is true freshman Koby Quansah. Now five guys for two positions is okay, but five guys for three positions is kind of a stretch and could lead to playing a kid before he's ready.

I can see Bere getting more snaps this week -- he's the strongest LB, even if he doesn't cover as much ground as Humphries or Gilles-Harris. If Northwestern tries to attack the middle, he could be very valuable.

On the other hand, I don't see the reason for making major adjustments for a struggling offense such as Northwestern. A year ago, we limited them to 271 yards total offense. The Northwestern offense managed one touchdown -- and that came on a 55-yard run on a short yardage play (much like Wake's last TD Saturday). It looks to me like their offense is weaker this year than a year ago -- through two games (against Western Michigan and Illinois State) they are averaging under 300 yards a game total offense. They've scored a grand total of 28 points against Western Michigan and FBS Illinois State.

Obviously, we can't make the same mistakes we made defensively against a bad Wake Forest offense. But neither do I think we need to made significant changes in our defense to deal with Northwestern's offense.

Good analysis. Thanks. Who do you see in the Strike Safety role this year like Cash was last year?

luvdahops
09-15-2016, 02:56 PM
While not a bad idea long-term, I don't think you can change the fundamental defensive alignment in a week. The system is MUCH too complex for that.

The system does provide for the Strike Safety playing more of a LB role -- Cash did that very effectively in our last two victories over Georgia Tech. But switching to a new alignment or even moving a trained LB to Strike Safety is inviting the kind of coverage breakdowns that are so damaging.

Plus, we don't have a lot of depth at LB. We've only played five players at the position this year -- and the fifth guy is true freshman Koby Quansah. Now five guys for two positions is okay, but five guys for three positions is kind of a stretch and could lead to playing a kid before he's ready.

I can see Bere getting more snaps this week -- he's the strongest LB, even if he doesn't cover as much ground as Humphries or Gilles-Harris. If Northwestern tries to attack the middle, he could be very valuable.

On the other hand, I don't see the reason for making major adjustments for a struggling offense such as Northwestern. A year ago, we limited them to 271 yards total offense. The Northwestern offense managed one touchdown -- and that came on a 55-yard run on a short yardage play (much like Wake's last TD Saturday). It looks to me like their offense is weaker this year than a year ago -- through two games (against Western Michigan and Illinois State) they are averaging under 300 yards a game total offense. They've scored a grand total of 28 points against Western Michigan and FBS Illinois State.

Obviously, we can't make the same mistakes we made defensively against a bad Wake Forest offense. But neither do I think we need to made significant changes in our defense to deal with Northwestern's offense.

I agree with much of this. Northwestern graduated some key contributors from both lines, and the impact has been very apparent so far. They are very reliant on the ground game, but Jackson is banged up and top reserve Warren Long - who broke that 55 yard TD run last year - is out with a broken hand. Jackson is not really a game breaker, but he is quick and elusive with great vision. With him not at 100% and depth limited, we should not get gashed on the ground, and the Wildcat passing game is mediocre at best. QB Clayton Thorson has a decent arm, but is very Sirk-like in his tendency to check down quickly, especially with the line troubles they've had so far.

Olympic Fan
09-15-2016, 03:00 PM
Good analysis. Thanks. Who do you see in the Strike Safety role this year like Cash was last year?

Corbin McCarthy has been playing the role this season. He's a fifth-year senior with better speed (and maybe better coverage skills) than Cash -- although lacking Cash's size and his instincts.

Brandon Feamster is a redshirt freshman with better physical skills than either Cash or McCarthy. He's big in the long-term plans.

I think true freshman Dylan Singleton will end up there. It's interesting that Jacob Morgenstern, who came to Duke touted as a linebacker, is being trained as a Strike Safety. I doubt he plays this year, but he's in the long-term picture.

Note: Just one comment about instincts. It's an immeasurable, but it's a very real quality. Kelby Brown was the best LB Duke has had in many years (at least since Vinnie Rey). He wasn't especially big or fast. But his instincts were superb. The same with Cash. One reason that he wasn't drafted was that his physical skills were merely so-so. But the Panthers are finding out that his instincts make him much better than his physical attributes.

Not sure anybody on the current roster has demonstrated that kind of skill -- although Joe Gilles-Harris may be getting there.

devildeac
09-15-2016, 03:49 PM
Corbin McCarthy has been playing the role this season. He's a fifth-year senior with better speed (and maybe better coverage skills) than Cash -- although lacking Cash's size and his instincts.

Brandon Feamster is a redshirt freshman with better physical skills than either Cash or McCarthy. He's big in the long-term plans.

I think true freshman Dylan Singleton will end up there. It's interesting that Jacob Morgenstern, who came to Duke touted as a linebacker, is being trained as a Strike Safety. I doubt he plays this year, but he's in the long-term picture.

Note: Just one comment about instincts. It's an immeasurable, but it's a very real quality. Kelby Brown was the best LB Duke has had in many years (at least since Vinnie Rey). He wasn't especially big or fast. But his instincts were superb. The same with Cash. One reason that he wasn't drafted was that his physical skills were merely so-so. But the Panthers are finding out that his instincts make him much better than his physical attributes.

Not sure anybody on the current roster has demonstrated that kind of skill -- although Joe Gilles-Harris may be getting there.

I wondered whether it would be McCarthy or McDuffie.

I commented to Bob Green and Newton_14 on Saturday (when we weren't complaining about various breakdowns vs WFU :mad: ), that Morgenstern was rather big for a safety as he's listed on the roster as such and at 6-4/225, IIRC.

budwom
09-15-2016, 04:43 PM
With some really good, big linebacker recruits in this freshman class (Quonsah, Hill, Gagnon), who augment good ones like Humphreys and Giles-Harris,
I'd love to see us get back to a 4-3 some time in the future. The extra bulk wouldn't hurt us in the least.

budwom
09-15-2016, 04:45 PM
I wondered whether it would be McCarthy or McDuffie.

I commented to Bob Green and Newton_14 on Saturday (when we weren't complaining about various breakdowns vs WFU :mad: ), that Morgenstern was rather big for a safety as he's listed on the roster as such and at 6-4/225, IIRC.

McDuffie? You must be thinking of someone else...McDuffie is a 170 lb wisp (though a good CB prospect).

jimsumner
09-15-2016, 04:48 PM
Look familiar?

Duke Football Injury Report

Duke vs. Northwestern
September 15, 2016

OUT
WR Keyston Fuller (leg)

OUT FOR SEASON
S Javon Jackson (foot)
DT Zach Morris (leg)
QB Thomas Sirk (leg)

Bob Green
09-15-2016, 04:55 PM
Look familiar?

Duke Football Injury Report



Jim,

Will Scott Bracey make the trip to Evanston?

Bob Green
09-15-2016, 05:44 PM
Northwestern injury report:

OL Ben Oxley - OUT

S Kyle Queiro - OUT

http://www.insidenu.com/2016/9/15/12934412/northwestern-week-3-injury-report--duke-kyle-queiro-injury-cornerback-depth


Northwestern really could not have afforded yet another injury to the secondary, yet that’s exactly what has happened. Queiro has been extremely valuable not only as a safety but also as a swing corner when Northwestern went into its sub-packages. With him out, it’s anyone’s guess as to who will play nickel corner.

devildeac
09-15-2016, 05:53 PM
McDuffie? You must be thinking of someone else...McDuffie is a 170 lb wisp (though a good CB prospect).

McCarthy, McDuffie, McDonald-can't keep them all straight :o .

I need a McFlurry. :o

devildeac
09-15-2016, 05:55 PM
Northwestern injury report:

OL Ben Oxley - OUT

S Kyle Queiro - OUT

http://www.insidenu.com/2016/9/15/12934412/northwestern-week-3-injury-report--duke-kyle-queiro-injury-cornerback-depth

Maybe we should suggest they line up Jackson as a DB instead. :rolleyes:

Bob Green
09-15-2016, 05:57 PM
Northwestern Coach Pat Fitzgerald Week 3 press conference notes:

http://www.insidenu.com/2016/9/12/12892128/northwestern-football-pat-fitzgerald-press-conference-week-3

There is a video of the press conference at the bottom of the linked article.

loran16
09-15-2016, 07:10 PM
Anyone know if there's an alumni or something event in Manhattan this weekend where Duke people will watch the game? Haven't seen anything in my email and I'm surprised given people here don't have big ten network

Avvocato
09-16-2016, 06:44 AM
Anyone know if there's an alumni or something event in Manhattan this weekend where Duke people will watch the game? Haven't seen anything in my email and I'm surprised given people here don't have big ten network

I live in Manhattan and Time Warner has the Big Ten Network (on one of those sports packages). I have not seen anything about an alumni gathering either, but I plan to watch at home. You may consider ordering the package for a month to get the game.

richmclean
09-16-2016, 06:49 AM
I went to an NU game a few years ago, and we parked in a pay lot a few blocks from the stadium pretty easily. Michigan was the opponent, which I'm sure was a better attended game than this will be, so you shouldn't have a huge issue.

Awesome thanks!

Avvocato
09-16-2016, 09:18 AM
While not a bad idea long-term, I don't think you can change the fundamental defensive alignment in a week. The system is MUCH too complex for that.

The system does provide for the Strike Safety playing more of a LB role -- Cash did that very effectively in our last two victories over Georgia Tech. But switching to a new alignment or even moving a trained LB to Strike Safety is inviting the kind of coverage breakdowns that are so damaging.

Plus, we don't have a lot of depth at LB. We've only played five players at the position this year -- and the fifth guy is true freshman Koby Quansah. Now five guys for two positions is okay, but five guys for three positions is kind of a stretch and could lead to playing a kid before he's ready.

I can see Bere getting more snaps this week -- he's the strongest LB, even if he doesn't cover as much ground as Humphries or Gilles-Harris. If Northwestern tries to attack the middle, he could be very valuable.

On the other hand, I don't see the reason for making major adjustments for a struggling offense such as Northwestern. A year ago, we limited them to 271 yards total offense. The Northwestern offense managed one touchdown -- and that came on a 55-yard run on a short yardage play (much like Wake's last TD Saturday). It looks to me like their offense is weaker this year than a year ago -- through two games (against Western Michigan and Illinois State) they are averaging under 300 yards a game total offense. They've scored a grand total of 28 points against Western Michigan and FBS Illinois State.

Obviously, we can't make the same mistakes we made defensively against a bad Wake Forest offense. But neither do I think we need to made significant changes in our defense to deal with Northwestern's offense.

Good analysis and I agree with much of this. However, my suggestion of the 4-3 is also based on the fact that I believe that we have the 4-3 already in our repertoire. We played it some against GT last year (and devildeac above thinks we may have also played it against Army, though I don't remember). So I'm thinking/hoping it's something we are capable/able to use, if needed. Sort of like a prevent defense/goal line defense package.

I also agree that we shouldn't need to use a "gimmick" defense against Northwestern. If we can't play our base defense against Northwestern, we may have more defensive problems than I thought. However, Norhwestern will try to power run against us, and if we struggle to stop or slow it down again on Saturday, we may want to experiment with some 4-3.

What does concern me about our base 4-2-5 defense is that we play 6 men up front. Almost every other defense plays either a 4-3 or a 3-4. That means off the bat we have one less man up front against the run. Therefore, our strike safety must be able to support against the run. Cash did that to a T. If whoever is playing that role now isn't effective, then maybe the answer is to play a different safety or a linebacker who can. I'm not even sure it's much of a change in scheme. It's just whether we use a 5th DB or a 3rd LB to play the same position. The issue, as you pointed out, is whether a 3rd LB can handle the pass coverage responsibilities (Cash wasn't great at that either), or whether the safety can effectively play the run.

I agree that we don't have the depth to make this a permanent switch, and I am not suggesting that we should right now. I don't like overreacting to a single game or play, especially early in the season. The coaches see the same film we do and will work on making adjustments. I'm only raising that if we are not effectively playing the run against a team that is not a great throwing team, one that's trying to muscle us up front, we may want to consider making an in-game adjustment and trying some 4-3.

I am also not suggesting that our defensive failure against the run against Wake was solely the responsibility of the strike safety. If you are getting manhandled at the line of scrimmage, then you are in some trouble anyway.

Of course, what will also help is if the offense/special teams capitalizes on opportunities (I.e., converting field position into touchdowns or at least making field goals). If we are playing from in front, that will force the Wakes and Northwesterns of the world to throw more than they want, and that should play into our hands better.

I trust Cut and crew to make the adjustments. Let's win this one Saturday and restore some confidence. My hope was to be no worse than 2-1 after the first three games. I don't care how we get there. Let's take care of some business Saturday. Let's go Duke.

Bob Green
09-16-2016, 10:35 AM
If whoever is playing that role now isn't effective, then maybe the answer is to play a different safety or a linebacker who can. I'm not even sure it's much of a change in scheme. It's just whether we use a 5th DB or a 3rd LB to play the same position. The issue, as you pointed out, is whether a 3rd LB can handle the pass coverage responsibilities (Cash wasn't great at that either), or whether the safety can effectively play the run.

Corbin McCarthy (#26) is the starting Strike Safety. He is not Jeremy Cash but he is a talented 5th year senior with lots of playing experience. For instance, he started and played in the Pinstripe Bowl. I've read in multiple places (including DBR forums) McCarthy has better cover skills than Cash. I'm sure the staff is comfortable with McCarthy due to his experience level.

While I have confidence in McCarthy, I also expect Tinashe Bere (#43) to see increased action in games against run oriented opponents. Bere is very strong against the run.

Richard Berg
09-16-2016, 01:25 PM
Anyone know if there's an alumni or something event in Manhattan this weekend where Duke people will watch the game? Haven't seen anything in my email and I'm surprised given people here don't have big ten network
I'm in Manhattan. Just tested -- to my great surprise, TWC channel 382 tunes loud & clear on my TVs. So, we'll be here! Planning to drink whether or not Asack runs a keeper.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-16-2016, 02:39 PM
McCarthy, McDuffie, McDonald-can't keep them all straight :o .

I need a McFlurry. :o

Don't break your McRib! You'll end up on the injury report!

Bob Green
09-16-2016, 04:24 PM
Chicago Tribune predicts a 17-16 Duke victory:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-northwestern-duke-preview-spt-0917-20160916-story.html

I'll be watching for Duke to eliminate the turnovers and penalties while opening up the offense. With Northwestern having serious secondary issues, Duke needs to attack the weak spot by throwing the ball down the field and forcing the Wildcats to move defenders out of the box to help with pass coverage. This will result in Duncan and Wilson having room to run.

Balance is the key - I always say we must run and pass the ball to succeed. Tomorrow I will be looking for us to pass and run to succeed. A subtle but important difference.

I'm looking forward to seeing Scott Bracey's debut if he is healthy. My position has not changed, sit him until he is 100 percent ready to go.

duke79
09-16-2016, 04:26 PM
Big Ten Network is channel 410 on DISH. I checked earlier this week and I got the channel, so I hope I can watch the game tomorrow.

OldPhiKap
09-17-2016, 11:39 AM
Game day, need this one. LGD!!!

Olympic Fan
09-17-2016, 11:59 AM
Game day, need this one. LGD!!!


Agreed ... I thought going into the season that our bowl chances were 80-90 percent.

Then we lost Sirk, and I dropped it to 70 percent.

But Wake was a game we needed to win. Losing last week dropped the chances to 50 percent or below.

Winning at Northwestern (which I had in the tossup category preseason) pushes us up over 50 percent again. A loss and I'd have us at 40 percent or lower.

Plus, it would help the ACC improve on its 4-3 record against P5 schools.

BandAlum83
09-17-2016, 06:16 PM
Uniform for Northwestern game:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsZtWhuWIAAU_zj.jpg

I really like this one.

BandAlum83
09-17-2016, 06:21 PM
I live in Manhattan and Time Warner has the Big Ten Network (on one of those sports packages). I have not seen anything about an alumni gathering either, but I plan to watch at home. You may consider ordering the package for a month to get the game.

I'm on xfinity in the Atlanta area without any special sports package (that I know of) and get the B1G for some reason. I won't complain about it tonight, but of course I really should keep better track of what I am spending and for what.

riverside6
09-17-2016, 08:09 PM
For those interested, live stats for Duke/Northwestern...

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-northwestern-football-live-stats-09172016

dukelifer
09-17-2016, 08:14 PM
Not a good start

grossbus
09-17-2016, 08:14 PM
Oof

That did not take long.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 08:19 PM
2nd play. Throw to side. Incomplete.

3 and out.

Heaven's Guardian
09-17-2016, 08:22 PM
Eventually, we have to come out playing to win. It seems like forever that teams have been jumping those bubble screens early in games, and we haven't gotten out of the habit of playing it "safe", if that means falling into an early hole.

TKG
09-17-2016, 08:27 PM
Wonder if it really matters who fills OC role? Granted the season is young but I haven't seen any material difference between our offense under Monthomery and our offense under Roper. Leads me to believe that Coach Cut is the true OC.

TKG
09-17-2016, 08:33 PM
That call belongs on Friday nights not on Saturdays.

rsvman
09-17-2016, 08:34 PM
Tough break that the receiver tripped on the fake punt
Could've been a touchdown.

TKG
09-17-2016, 08:35 PM
No DBR Chat this evening?

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 08:44 PM
Tough break that the receiver tripped on the fake punt
Could've been a touchdown.

He was shoved a bit before he tripped. Could have been called illegal contact.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 08:51 PM
D playing better.

O also except for a couple of drive killing mistakes.

DU82
09-17-2016, 08:53 PM
He was shoved a bit before he tripped. Could have been called illegal contact.

Looked bad in the stadium. Of course no replay on the big screen (not that we can see it; the end zone tv tower blocks our view.)

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 08:55 PM
Looked bad in the stadium. Of course no replay on the big screen (not that we can see it; the end zone tv tower blocks our view.)

Trip seemed incidental, but was definitely shoved right before. That probably threw him off balance a bit.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 09:10 PM
99 yard drive!!

killerleft
09-17-2016, 09:12 PM
99 yard drive!!

Yesss!

TKG
09-17-2016, 09:14 PM
Nice!!

grossbus
09-17-2016, 09:19 PM
We have to get a pass rush.

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 09:24 PM
Secondary getting burned quite easily

grossbus
09-17-2016, 09:25 PM
We rough the kicker on a missed FG. YEESH.

They miss the retry !!

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 09:25 PM
Wow. What a stupid play by borders. DBs are playing terribly tonight.

Good thing their kicker is as bad as ours

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 09:25 PM
Duke can't get out of their own way.

Luckily, Northwestern can't either.

killerleft
09-17-2016, 09:25 PM
That's dodging the ole' bullet! Very lucky, indeed.

riverside6
09-17-2016, 09:26 PM
Halftime Stats for Duke/Northwestern

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-northwestern-football-live-stats-09172016

6662

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 09:26 PM
We have to get a pass rush.

They need to stop sitting back in a zone on 3rd and long and relying on a 4 man rush. Send an extra blitzer. Play some man or man/zone combinations.

TKG
09-17-2016, 09:53 PM
Unreal.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 09:54 PM
I feel like the designed QB runs just aren't Jones' cup of tea. I like it better when he's a pocket passer and improvises to run. More effective.

killerleft
09-17-2016, 09:55 PM
Whatever it takes, this one may be headed down to the wire.

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 09:56 PM
Duke with 8 lost fumbles this yr already.

TKG
09-17-2016, 10:01 PM
I feel like the designed QB runs just aren't Jones' cup of tea. I like it better when he's a pocket passer and improvises to run. More effective.

I agree with you and while it has nothing to do with the particular play on which Jones fumbled, to be a pocket passer the O line has to be able to create a pocket. Wake and NW have beaten our O line repeatedly.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 10:03 PM
I agree with you and while it has nothing to do with the particular play on which Jones fumbled, to be a pocket passer the O line has to be able to create a pocket. Wake and NW have beaten our O line repeatedly.

Right, but Jones has shown the ability to improvise and make plays on the move. Hasn't shown great vision on the designed runs/read options.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 10:08 PM
INT Borders!


This field giving way under foot

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Great. Another botched snap by the punter.

TKG
09-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Dear lord....

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 10:10 PM
INT Borders!


This field giving way under foot

Just gave it back with fumbled punt snap. Even?

killerleft
09-17-2016, 10:11 PM
INT Borders!


This field giving way under foot

Yep, sorry field and our punter can't catch. Whatever it takes.

Tripping William
09-17-2016, 10:11 PM
Austin Parker with an awful case of Casey Sanders Disease. Ugh.

Isaac Sours
09-17-2016, 10:12 PM
At this point, our punter could have the strongest leg in the nation and I still wouldn't play him. You gotta be able to catch the ball first.

TKG
09-17-2016, 10:13 PM
We are putting waayyyy too much pressure on our defense.

killerleft
09-17-2016, 10:13 PM
The secondary taketh, the secondary giveth away. Sheesh!

luvdahops
09-17-2016, 10:14 PM
The secondary taketh, the secondary giveth away. Sheesh!

Singleton has looked lost all night

arnie
09-17-2016, 10:19 PM
Just gave it back with fumbled punt snap. Even?

Reminds me of the Ted Roof special teams disasters. Cut has been great with this until this year, hopefully they figure it out real soon.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 10:20 PM
That snap could not have been more perfect.


And then an overthrow on a wide open receiver. Jones does not seem accurate deep. Has thrown at least two OB on deep throws.

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 10:20 PM
5 sacks tonight for the defense. Secondary needs to do better job.

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 10:23 PM
Offensive line is so sorry. Reminds me of Thad Lewis getting no time to throw.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 10:29 PM
Down 10. Seems insurmountable.

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 10:31 PM
Down 10. Seems insurmountable.

My feeling too. Only one way to find out

TKG
09-17-2016, 10:31 PM
Most on this board knew 2016 would be a difficult one for the good guys but was our offensive line and defensive backfield, respectively, seen as weaknesses coming into the season?

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 10:35 PM
Most on this board knew 2016 would be a difficult one for the good guys but was our offensive line and defensive backfield, respectively, seen as weaknesses coming into the season?

Offensive line yes given the amount of turnover through the years.

DBs no. Outside of Borders and Devon, every other DB is an easy target for any half-decent QB.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 10:46 PM
So, pushing WR, doesn't get his head around... no PI called?

luvdahops
09-17-2016, 10:48 PM
So, pushing WR, doesn't get his head around... no PI called?

Agreed. Though Nash still should have caught it, and the pass before.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 10:48 PM
FG wide right.

Not sure there is anyone on the schedule we can beat.

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 10:50 PM
Gonna be a long season

brightleaf
09-17-2016, 10:51 PM
FG wide right.

Not sure there is anyone on the schedule we can beat.

I got banned from another Devil's site for saying the same thing last week. :) I hope it isn't true.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 10:51 PM
FG wide right.

Not sure there is anyone on the schedule we can beat.

I disagree - the talent is there. Just gotta execute and take care of the ball.

Hitting FGs would be nice. Could have won WF game if Reed hits the FGs.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 10:54 PM
That penalty is pretty awful. Hit him with a shoulder.

What was he supposed to do? He had to brace himself.

Flags have not been on Duke's side this game.

grossbus
09-17-2016, 10:54 PM
Not targeting.

TKG
09-17-2016, 10:55 PM
Cut has been the head man since 2008 and has turned around our program but the Wake game and this NW game conjure awful memories of the days when Ted Roof and Carl Franks were in charge. Not really fair, I know, but the PTSD caused by Roof and Franks remains close to the surface.

brightleaf
09-17-2016, 11:00 PM
Cut has been the head man since 2008 and has turned around our program but the Wake game and this NW game conjure awful memories of the days when Ted Roof and Carl Franks were in charge. Not really fair, I know, but the PTSD caused by Roof and Franks remains close to the surface.

Goldy beat Northwestern in 1998 at least.

SCMatt33
09-17-2016, 11:02 PM
That penalty is pretty awful. Hit him with a shoulder.

What was he supposed to do? He had to brace himself.

Flags have not been on Duke's side this game.

I actually don't mind the flag live. The guy head whips back and it looks bad as a bang bang thing. Officials should err on the side of caution there. The replay booth needs to make that call. If someone can't show me a screen cap of contact to the head, it's not targeting. They never really slowed it down frame by frame, and I don't know tpwhat the announcers were talking about with "slipped up to the chin". There's contact for like a split second. He hit him where he hit him.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:04 PM
I actually don't mind the flag live. The guy head whips back and it looks bad as a bang bang thing. Officials should err on the side of caution there. The replay booth needs to make that call. If someone can't show me a screen cap of contact to the head, it's not targeting. They never really slowed it down frame by frame, and I don't know tpwhat the announcers were talking about with "slipped up to the chin". There's contact for like a split second. He hit him where he hit him.

Looked like all chest to me. I agree in real time.

But replay? Come on.

Newton_14
09-17-2016, 11:05 PM
That penalty is pretty awful. Hit him with a shoulder.

What was he supposed to do? He had to brace himself.

Flags have not been on Duke's side this game.

TERRIBLE CALL!!

Its football not ball room dancing for crying out loud. Shoulder to Chest

SCMatt33
09-17-2016, 11:05 PM
Looked like all chest to me. I agree in real time.

But replay? Come on.

Is that something the league office can look at for the suspension, or is replay booth final?

killerleft
09-17-2016, 11:06 PM
I actually don't mind the flag live. The guy head whips back and it looks bad as a bang bang thing. Officials should err on the side of caution there. The replay booth needs to make that call. If someone can't show me a screen cap of contact to the head, it's not targeting. They never really slowed it down frame by frame, and I don't know tpwhat the announcers were talking about with "slipped up to the chin". There's contact for like a split second. He hit him where he hit him.

If they want to outlaw perfect hits, lets get rid of football. No guts on the review. Maybe they can get this one reversed.

Unless they want to penalize players for hitting too hard.

BandAlum83
09-17-2016, 11:06 PM
Ok, so they are beating us on the field, but they have uglier uniforms.

And speaking of ugly uniforms, their cheerleader's or dance team's, or whoever they are uniforms are hideous. Gotta be the worst I've seen.

And as Fernando would have said, "it's better to look good than to play good, and darling, we look Mahvelous!"


Ok......... So I admit I'm bitter.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:06 PM
Great. Leave their top WR wide open. Good job.

Ball game.

ChillinDuke
09-17-2016, 11:08 PM
Going to bed, guys.

If anyone is going to South Bend next week, I'll hopefully see you there. But sadly, I'm not as excited for the game as I was hoping.

- Chillin

luvdahops
09-17-2016, 11:09 PM
Great. Leave their top WR wide open. Good job.

Ball game.

Dylan Singleton picked up right where his older brother left off

killerleft
09-17-2016, 11:11 PM
Secondary giveth again. Maybe they're not our strength?

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:12 PM
Secondary giveth again. Maybe they're not our strength?

Eh, some of that is on the defensive play calling. Some is on lack of defensive line pressure.

Most of it is "no Jeremy Cash"

duke09hms
09-17-2016, 11:15 PM
Eh, some of that is on the defensive play calling. Some is on lack of defensive line pressure.

Most of it is "no Jeremy Cash"

Ehhh not really. Cash wasn't that great in coverage. His strength was blowing up run plays. Maybe we're missing his organization of the D.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:16 PM
Ehhh not really. Cash wasn't that great in coverage. His strength was blowing up run plays. Maybe we're missing his organization of the D.

He was also pretty great at generating pressure on the QB. But yes, the leadership.

killerleft
09-17-2016, 11:17 PM
Eh, some of that is on the defensive play calling. Some is on lack of defensive line pressure.

Most of it is "no Jeremy Cash"

Let's hope so, but we have exerted some good pressure at times, like that touchdown, and the backs have often been avoiding the receivers with aplomb.

Newton_14
09-17-2016, 11:18 PM
I disagree - the talent is there. Just gotta execute and take care of the ball.

Hitting FGs would be nice. Could have won WF game if Reed hits the FGs.

Yeah I agree. We are not a terrible team. Execution is just off in several areas. The kicking issues have to be fixed soon. You can't drop snaps and miss easy FG's and expect to win. Ryan is not making anything happen on punt returns and no one will kickoff to us, so no chance for big plays there.

I think there is enough talent to develop into a good team, but they have to start showing progress soon. If they hang their heads and pout, the wheels could come off and it could go really bad the wrong way.

I really hate Sirk got hurt. I think we are missing his leadership out there very badly. Jones is talented but he is a freshman learning on the job.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:19 PM
Let's hope so, but we have exerted some good pressure at times, like that touchdown, and the backs have often been avoiding the receivers with aplomb.

Pressure on that TD was a sellout blitz, with no safety help. Which means, someone should have been in man on Carr. Blown coverage there.

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:20 PM
Aaaaand another missed PI

FerryFor50
09-17-2016, 11:21 PM
And Reed misses a PAT.

Cut will be recruiting a kicker tonight.

Isaac Sours
09-17-2016, 11:23 PM
Maybe we should be recruiting placekickers from the soccer team.

Sixthman
09-17-2016, 11:24 PM
And Reed misses a PAT.

Cut will be recruiting a kicker tonight.

Only one?

Bob Green
09-17-2016, 11:48 PM
Turnovers, penalties and missed defensive assignments were too much to overcome tonight. The targeting call on Deondre Singleton was suspect. It looked like a clean shoulder to chest hit to me. I am genuinely surprised we struggle to effectively run the ball. Running game was suppose to be a strength this year.

Isaac Sours
09-17-2016, 11:52 PM
I'm happier with the defense than I am with the offense. We should be able to score more than twice per game. 24 ppg given to NU and WF isn't awful, 13.5 ppg scoring is.

Atldukie79
09-18-2016, 12:05 AM
Just back from Ryan field.

Game day experience was nice. An old stadium with a lot of character. More fans than I have seen in WW in a while.
The NW fans were easy to talk to and we were joking about which team wanted to give away the game more.
Beautiful night for football.

It seemed like NW completed a high percentage of passes when we did not blitz. We did not pressure the QB with just the 4 down linemen.

When we blitzed, which was often, it was all or nothing. It seemed as if it wasn't just 5 guys rushing, but often we had 6, 7 or even 8 men rushing the QB.
High risk high reward defense.

I wonder if a college team has had such a drop in kicking effectiveness (punt and FG/PAT) from one year to the next.

Olympic Fan
09-18-2016, 12:53 AM
I wonder if a college team has had such a drop in kicking effectiveness (punt and FG/PAT) from one year to the next.

Astute observation -- I think we win the game with Martin and Monday ... definitely with Sirk.

I don't mean that as a rip on Jones. I think he is going to develop into a quality QB. But I could have said the same about Thaddeus Lewis back in 2006. Right now, Jones will make 3-4 excellent plays in a row, followed by a bad read or a bad throw. That makes it tough to sustain an offense such as ours, which isn't prone to generate many big plays.

This game turned on two plays in the third quarter -- the fumble Jones lost when the ball was raked out of his hand and the dropped snap on the punt by Parker.

My biggest disappointment so far has been our inability to run the ball. Without Sirk and with a young receiving corps (even Nash -- our most experienced player, really only played for two-thirds of a season before this year), I expected to see growing pains in the passing game. But I thought we would be able to run the ball. The offensive line has been okay -- not great, but decent-- in pass protection, but terrible blocking for the run.

The defense is plagued by the same old problem -- the inability to generate a pass rush without blitzing. BTW: I thought Borders and Fields did a great job under the circumstances tonight.

Oh well, the best thing I can say about next week's game is that it will be a matchup between two 1-2 teams, so I guess it's a tossup, right?

Devilwin
09-18-2016, 06:58 AM
Wish it was a toss up, lol. I was just looking at the schedule, and it's brutal.The game with Army is the only one we should be favored in. I agree that the kicking game is really hurting, and lack of a consistent run game is putting a lot of pressure on a young, albeit talented, qb. The line needs to come together as a unit, and start opening holes for Wilson and Duncan. Jones will be a top flight qb eventually, he shows flashes of brilliance, but as with most young signal callers, he is going to make read mistakes time to time. But I like him, and Cut obviously has a ton of faith in the kid, and that's good enough for me.
The defense seems a bit more along, but still needs to get it together. Really like Giles-Harris. He's a pro quality player.
And it wouldn't be a bad idea to check out any soccer players interested in kicking...

OldPhiKap
09-18-2016, 07:55 AM
Wish it was a toss up, lol. I was just looking at the schedule, and it's brutal.The game with Army is the only one we should be favored in. I agree that the kicking game is really hurting, and lack of a consistent run game is putting a lot of pressure on a young, albeit talented, qb. The line needs to come together as a unit, and start opening holes for Wilson and Duncan. Jones will be a top flight qb eventually, he shows flashes of brilliance, but as with most young signal callers, he is going to make read mistakes time to time. But I like him, and Cut obviously has a ton of faith in the kid, and that's good enough for me.
The defense seems a bit more along, but still needs to get it together. Really like Giles-Harris. He's a pro quality player.
And it wouldn't be a bad idea to check out any soccer players interested in kicking...

Army is pretty good this year.

kmspeaks
09-18-2016, 10:42 AM
I wonder if a college team has had such a drop in kicking effectiveness (punt and FG/PAT) from one year to the next.

I haven't looked up numbers but off the top of my head I'd say Georgia might be close. Marshall Morgan set an SEC record for consecutive field goals made and Collin Barber was pretty good at pinning teams inside the 20. Their FG kicker this year has been horrendous, even when he makes a kick it doesn't look good.

Troublemaker
09-18-2016, 11:07 AM
Army is pretty good this year.

True. There doesn't seem to be any gimmes on the schedule besides the already played NCCU.

My thoughts on the season, with the caveat that I don't follow college football closely.

On balance, I think we'll end up with 3-4 wins. We'll either go 1-1 or 2-0 vs UVA and Army, and then we will upset 1 of the non-UVA non-Army teams for our best win of the season.

It's a rebuilding year. Hopefully we look better in November than we do in September, although that may manifest itself as close losses rather than wins, considering the schedule.

Play much better in November than in September, keep your recruits, and that's a pretty good rebuilding year.

OldPhiKap
09-18-2016, 11:28 AM
Any injuries yesterday? I couldn't get the game.

Bob Green
09-18-2016, 11:39 AM
Any injuries yesterday? I couldn't get the game.

Yes, but I don't have any details. DE Dominic McDonald left the game and did not return. McDonald was holding his left arm across his chest when he walked off the field. DT Quaven Ferguson also left the game and I didn't notice him back but I'm unsure whether or not he returned to action. He walked off the field unassisted.

OldPhiKap
09-18-2016, 11:51 AM
Yes, but I don't have any details. DE Dominic McDonald left the game and did not return. McDonald was holding his left arm across his chest when he walked off the field. DT Quaven Ferguson also left the game and I didn't notice him back but I'm unsure whether or not he returned to action. He walked off the field unassisted.

Thanks, Bob.

TruBlu
09-18-2016, 01:00 PM
I couldn't get the game.

Congratulations! I also couldn't get the game, but unfortunately I followed it on gamecast . . . it was ugly even on that.:mad:

I am dedicating today to not watching the replay. If anyone knows where to watch the replay, please post a link so that I know where not to watch it.:p

Hopefully, some of our problems on the field (and in the coaches' heads) get straightened out soon.

Olympic Fan
09-18-2016, 01:50 PM
It's always interesting to check the official Game Book at goduke.com on the morning after the game. I found a few interesting things:

-- For all our trouble rushing the ball, Duke actually out-rushed Northwestern 117-86. That's less than we had a year ago (177), but we held Northwestern to MUCH less than a year ago (201).

-- In many ways our pass defense showed up pretty well. We held Thorson to 46 percent completions (18-of-39) and picked him twice, We sacked him five times and officially hurried him 12 times.

-- The big flaw in that is explosive plays -- of those 18 completions, five were explosive plays -- 58-44-35-33-26. Even though Duke was more efficient in the passing game (56.3 percent with one pick and one sack), we had just three explosive plays -- for 39-28-23 yards.

-- The numbers for the pass rush look very good -- five sacks and 12 hurries. I'll take that any time. But a breakdown of the numbers shows how much of the success was due to the blitz. Three of the sacks by Edwards, McCarthy and Gilles-Harris were on the blitz. DEs Dom McDonald and Denny Doyle got the other two. Seven of the 12 hurries were by blitzers -- five by defensive lineman. Evan that has to be taken with a grain of salt -- I don't know how many of the two sacks and five hurries from DL were on blitzing situations, but since we blitzed a LOT, I suspect most of them were.

-- Breon Borders played a great game -- his second interception of the year (with 12 in his career, I think he is the current active leader in the NCAA) and FOUR pass breakups. That's a terrific number and I'm betting he'll be leading the ACC in passes defended when the new stats come out.

-- Cut subbed more on defense, including the young guys. Koby Quansah had two QB hurries. James Hornbuckle got one. Redshirt freshman Trevor McSwain had two. Freshmen Mark Gilbert and Dylan Singleton all made plays in the secondary (although I THINK Singleton had the bust on Northwestern's 58 yard pass play). No action for Julius Santos ... Scott Bracey and Brittain Brown remain MIA.

-- Bob Green made the great observation about the dropoff in our kicking game. By the numbers, Parker kicked it pretty well -- five kicks for 46.0 yards, no touchbacks. But he did drop another snap and that was the turning point of the game. Reed is in a mental funk -- I wonder how much Cut wishes he had let the kid kick a meaningless FG in the final minutes of the NCCU game to boost his confidence? Our great KO return game is still waiting to get started. We haven't had a significant return this year. I guess the point is, our kicking game has gone from a major strength to an overall weakness.

Looking at the stats more closely, I see a team that played well ... for 95 percent of the game. It's that other five percent -- the explosives we give up, the penalties and the turnovers -- that are killing us. It would be nice to have some more explosives of our own (which reminds me, what's happened to Shaun Wilson?).

I can remember 2013 when Duke looked like the best coached team in the ACC. The Devils didn't turn it over. Didn't commit penalties. Always won the kicking game. And deadly in the red zone (thanks to Brandon Connette). It was a defense that gave up quite a few yards, but rarely gave up explosive plays (until the postseason).

I think this team is suffering from inexperience. But the accumulation of defeat (with a third loss pending this week) has got to take its toll. I don't have realistic hopes of winning at Notre Dame this weekend, but I am hoping that Cut can get his kids ready for the Virginia game the next week. They are a bad team too. Win that and beat a greatly improved Army team and the Devils might salvage something out of the season (I think a bowl is an extreme longshot at this point). I think that this team is close to being decent ... I just hope they can take those few steps needed.

budwom
09-18-2016, 05:04 PM
^ Santos did in fact play. After one of our more anemic offensive series, Cut put in much of the second team OL, including Gourley and Harris...(just for one series I believe).

DU82
09-18-2016, 06:53 PM
As OF said, there was more subbing on D. On third and obvious passing downs, it appeared that five or six subs went in.

Olympic Fan
09-18-2016, 07:49 PM
Cut said today that McDonald's injury has him concerned (but no definite diagnosis). Ferguson, who also left the game, is fine.

But Cut said a lot of guys have bumps and bruises and several have ankle problems. Too soon to know if any are serious.

Phillip Carter and Brandon Boyce, each suspended for the first three games, should be back this week -- although Cut said he won't know that for sure until Tuesday.

I missed it, but Harmon started in Zach Baker's spot at OG.

Asked about any chances in personnel and scheme, Cut said they'll look at everything ... but no specifics.

sagegrouse
09-18-2016, 09:48 PM
This was a game lost on mistakes. Penalties, turnovers, muffed snap on a punt. Holy cow! Northwestern had many fewer mistakes. It seemed like Duke was making a mistake -- usually a penalty -- every third or fourth play. This is a total lack of attention.

The secondary, which is the strongest part of any of our teams and has a lot of experience, gets a lot of criticism for me 'cuz rookie mistakes don't fly back there.

Muffed snap on a punt? Twice in one year? Inexcusable and unbelievable. That was the turning point of the game. And I KNEW that Northwestern was going long on the next play. Ask my seatmates.

There was a sizable Duke turnout at the game, and the Duke crowd made a lot of noise when there was a reason.

The overall crowd -- 35,000 -- was twice what I expected given the Wildcats' miserable start for the season. The NU students were out in force -- appeared to be about 5,000, including the 2,000 or so frosh who are still in orientation (quarter system). Five thousand students at a game? Sigh.

Atldukie79
09-19-2016, 08:10 AM
I haven't looked up numbers but off the top of my head I'd say Georgia might be close. Marshall Morgan set an SEC record for consecutive field goals made and Collin Barber was pretty good at pinning teams inside the 20. Their FG kicker this year has been horrendous, even when he makes a kick it doesn't look good.

Good point about UGA's kicking game being down this year. As a Duke grad with 3 sons who graduated from App State, Duke and UGA respectively, I guess my rooting interests have been particularly hard hit in the kicking game. Consider App State's missed PAT and FG in the overtime game with Tennessee that prevented a huge upset.

I think I am suffering the trifecta of kicking misery this year!

hustleplays
09-19-2016, 07:32 PM
Having spent a long life avidly watching football [while doing some other things], coaching some HS football, and being a pretty good HS linebacker and D Captain [we almost won State! :-)], I have a strong appreciation for offenses that cause just a moment of hesitation, let alone outright confusion. If I had the requisite skills, boy, would I love to play against Duke's offense.

I have never seen such an unimaginative offense since, well, last couple of years at Duke, and the many years at Duke before that. What's with this predictable handoff off guard or tackle -- with no deception, misdirection, counter, whatever? Does Cut and our OC think that we can just overpower others' D lines? That question answers itself.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but in fact our HS offense [which was a very good one in its league] was far more intricate and complex. [I played some QB as well.]

Did any of you watch Pitt's offense in the game immediately preceding the Duke game? Counters, play actions, reverses, shovel passes, pre-snap backfield movement [early enough]. I mean, even if our QB would just look, feint in the opposite direction for a moment, before handing off, it's enough to give an LB or DL a moment of hesitation.

Is there some complexity, deceptiveness that I am somehow missing with my eye balls?

If it's just due to Jones' inexperience, why all the lack of imagination the past several years? And I think that even an inexperienced QB can learn and execute some basic deception/misdirection in the backfield.

I know, sincerely, that there are many of you who know more about football than I do. But I know a little. Please explain to me why/how Duke's offense is what it is, with respect to play calling. I honestly don't get it. thanks!

Bob Green
09-19-2016, 08:39 PM
Did any of you watch Pitt's offense in the game immediately preceding the Duke game? Counters, play actions, reverses, shovel passes, pre-snap backfield movement [early enough]. I mean, even if our QB would just look, feint in the opposite direction for a moment, before handing off, it's enough to give an LB or DL a moment of hesitation.

Is there some complexity, deceptiveness that I am somehow missing with my eye balls?



If you're missing it I am missing it too.

I didn't watch Pitt but I did watch Alabama who ran a scheme similar to what you are describing. Alabama was combining the fly/jet sweep with inside power runs and quarterback keepers. Then they would fake both the fly/jet sweep and inside power run and throw play action passes. My desire is to see Duke incorporate more movement pre-snap by bringing the slot receiver in motion and running an outside zone read, which will set-up the counter with the running back. We need to make the defense cover the whole field.

Running game success starts with execution from the offensive line but it appears we could be doing a lot more with scheme to create success.

Olympic Fan
09-19-2016, 11:58 PM
Having spent a long life avidly watching football [while doing some other things], coaching some HS football, and being a pretty good HS linebacker and D Captain [we almost won State! :-)], I have a strong appreciation for offenses that cause just a moment of hesitation, let alone outright confusion. If I had the requisite skills, boy, would I love to play against Duke's offense.

I have never seen such an unimaginative offense since, well, last couple of years at Duke, and the many years at Duke before that. What's with this predictable handoff off guard or tackle -- with no deception, misdirection, counter, whatever? Does Cut and our OC think that we can just overpower others' D lines? That question answers itself.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but in fact our HS offense [which was a very good one in its league] was far more intricate and complex. [I played some QB as well.]

Did any of you watch Pitt's offense in the game immediately preceding the Duke game? Counters, play actions, reverses, shovel passes, pre-snap backfield movement [early enough]. I mean, even if our QB would just look, feint in the opposite direction for a moment, before handing off, it's enough to give an LB or DL a moment of hesitation.

Is there some complexity, deceptiveness that I am somehow missing with my eye balls?

If it's just due to Jones' inexperience, why all the lack of imagination the past several years? And I think that even an inexperienced QB can learn and execute some basic deception/misdirection in the backfield.

I know, sincerely, that there are many of you who know more about football than I do. But I know a little. Please explain to me why/how Duke's offense is what it is, with respect to play calling. I honestly don't get it. thanks!

Wow! A former HS defensive player, who coached some high school football. I wish we had someone of your experience to design our offense. What's Cut ever done to earn any respect as an offensive mastermind. After all, he's only mentored two Super Bowl MVP quarterbacks and was offensive coordinator for just one national championship team. Damn, I wish we had you as an offensive coach.

Okay, I apologize for the sarcasm, but your post was ridiculous.

Look, that Pitt offense you liked so much -- a year ago, running the same offense (and with a first-round NFL wide receiver in the lineup), Pitt averaged 28.2 points a game -- 3.3 points LESS a game than Duke (31.5) with its predictable, unimaginative offense.

Last year, without a single skill performer who got any All-ACC votes, Duke's stale, unimaginative offense averaged more points a game than Louisville, Michigan State or Miami. We averaged almost exactly the same as Florida State. We averaged just a couple of points less than Notre Dame and Alabama (33.6) with all their NFL talent. we averaged more than Auburn, Florida, Texas, Penn State, Texas A&M.

I'm sorry, but listening to complaints about Duke's offensive scheme sound an awful lot to me like the complaints I heard 32-34 years ago about our young basketball coach and his stubborn refusal to play nothing but man-to-man defense. Heck, it sounds a lot like the self-anointed experts who posted here a decade ago and complained that K was not playing enough people and was shooting too many 3-pointers,

There's nothing wrong with Cut's offensive scheme. The biggest problem we're having is inexperience across the board -- especially at quarterback. I repeat what I said earlier -- Daniel Jones is going to be a fine quarterback, but he's having growing pains now. He doesn't have a real playmaker at wide receiver. And our offensive line is enduring its own growing pains and that's hurting our running game.

But over the last four years, Cut's offenses have averaged over 31 points a game each season. Of course, in each of those seasons we had an experienced (no less than a redshirt junior) quarterback.

Hustle, you don't want to blame a young QB because (in your words) "why all the lack of imagination the past several years?" Well, all that lack of imagination has led to the third most consistent offense in the ACC over the last four years -- behind Clemson and FSU (and they get a LOT more talent ... so do several other schools that can't match Cut's offensive output)

Okay, we're having an off year ... injuries and inexperience have created growing pains.

But what don't need are self-anointed experts telling us what a lousy scheme our coaches are running.

Isaac Sours
09-20-2016, 01:34 AM
I'm sorry, but listening to complaints about Duke's offensive scheme sound an awful lot to me like the complaints I heard 32-34 years ago about our young basketball coach and his stubborn refusal to play nothing but man-to-man defense. Heck, it sounds a lot like the self-anointed experts who posted here a decade ago and complained that K was not playing enough people and was shooting too many 3-pointers.

It's worth pointing out, to be fair, that K has adapted his defensive principles when he has been faced with personnel who benefit from that adaptation. I agree with most of what you wrote, but K has moved away from that defensive stubbornness somewhat.

Again, I agree that there's not much of a problem with our offensive game plan. The execution seems to be lacking, whether it be a matter of experience, talent, rust, or whatever else. The offensive scheme has never caused problems under Cut. And this year, when we've been clicking, we've moved the ball quite well. Turnovers kill us on offense. So many turnovers.

Scorp4me
09-20-2016, 04:24 AM
Having spent a long life avidly watching football [while doing some other things], coaching some HS football, and being a pretty good HS linebacker and D Captain [we almost won State! :-)], I have a strong appreciation for offenses that cause just a moment of hesitation, let alone outright confusion. If I had the requisite skills, boy, would I love to play against Duke's offense.

I have never seen such an unimaginative offense since, well, last couple of years at Duke, and the many years at Duke before that. What's with this predictable handoff off guard or tackle -- with no deception, misdirection, counter, whatever? Does Cut and our OC think that we can just overpower others' D lines? That question answers itself.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but in fact our HS offense [which was a very good one in its league] was far more intricate and complex. [I played some QB as well.]

Did any of you watch Pitt's offense in the game immediately preceding the Duke game? Counters, play actions, reverses, shovel passes, pre-snap backfield movement [early enough]. I mean, even if our QB would just look, feint in the opposite direction for a moment, before handing off, it's enough to give an LB or DL a moment of hesitation.

Is there some complexity, deceptiveness that I am somehow missing with my eye balls?

If it's just due to Jones' inexperience, why all the lack of imagination the past several years? And I think that even an inexperienced QB can learn and execute some basic deception/misdirection in the backfield.

I know, sincerely, that there are many of you who know more about football than I do. But I know a little. Please explain to me why/how Duke's offense is what it is, with respect to play calling. I honestly don't get it. thanks!

I'm a huge fan of Sirk, I think he is a big part of what is missing. But I think you're right and I come from a similar background as you. I'm not sure what a little more imagination could have accomplished last year, the players seemed to make good with little in way of play calling. But this year it would definitely benefit. This year's schedule is much more difficult and we haven't even gotten to the difficult parts yet and we're struggling. And I don't buy the excuse that Jones needs time to learn the schemes. If he is struggling with the simple schemes we are running he shouldn't even be out there. Most high school kids do more and Jones seems a smart kid.

I think Cut is great. He's brought us back from nothing. He's running a heck of a program. And he's a heck of a guy! If this is the best he can do for us I'm going to support him regardless. I just don't think this is the best we can do. I'm not talking flea flickers and fake punts. I'm talking the basics...but all the basics. I can't imagine anyone would disagree with playing to your strengths. I know 6 plays worked for Coach Boone, but the movie did take some liberties with the facts :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZA8j9ZD1g

Bob Green
09-20-2016, 04:59 AM
There's nothing wrong with Cut's offensive scheme. The biggest problem we're having is inexperience across the board -- especially at quarterback. I repeat what I said earlier -- Daniel Jones is going to be a fine quarterback, but he's having growing pains now. He doesn't have a real playmaker at wide receiver. And our offensive line is enduring its own growing pains and that's hurting our running game.

But what don't need are self-anointed experts telling us what a lousy scheme our coaches are running.

I believe everyone on the boards acknowledges a couple of things:

1.) We have an issue with experience.
2.) The coaching staff has forgotten more about football than we will ever know.

All that is being questioned is the lack of movement and misdirection in our offense. It is certainly a topic worth discussing.

sagegrouse
09-20-2016, 07:55 AM
I'm not talking flea flickers and fake punts. I'm talking the basics...but all the basics. I can't imagine anyone would disagree with playing to your strengths. I know 6 plays worked for Coach Boone, but the movie did take some liberties with the facts :)



I am talking, "Catch the snap from center on punts that aren't fake." Mistakes have caused two losses so far.

Isaac Sours
09-20-2016, 04:55 PM
I am talking, "Catch the snap from center on punts that aren't fake." Mistakes have caused two losses so far.

It's really hard to advocate for a complex offense when we have more than half a dozen (I'm not sure what it is exactly, I think it's eight) lost fumbles on the year. We can't handle basic, simple handoffs. Heck, Daniel Jones literally hit Nash in the facemask with a throw. You gotta hold on to the ball if it touches your hands, whether taking handoffs or catching passes. Once we get that taken care of, then I may start calling for some jet sweeps or misdirections.

Devilwin
09-20-2016, 05:12 PM
Turnovers, youth and inexperience. In other words, growing pains. The team will improve under coach Cut. I have the utmost confidence in that. We should be much better by mid October....

Richard Berg
09-20-2016, 05:19 PM
It's really hard to advocate for a complex offense when we have more than half a dozen (I'm not sure what it is exactly, I think it's eight) lost fumbles on the year. We can't handle basic, simple handoffs. Heck, Daniel Jones literally hit Nash in the facemask with a throw. You gotta hold on to the ball if it touches your hands, whether taking handoffs or catching passes. Once we get that taken care of, then I may start calling for some jet sweeps or misdirections.
++

And don't forget the jet sweep against NWU that we telegraphed so badly Rahming ended up tackled deep in the backfield.

hustleplays
09-20-2016, 08:20 PM
Wow! A former HS defensive player, who coached some high school football. I wish we had someone of your experience to design our offense. What's Cut ever done to earn any respect as an offensive mastermind. After all, he's only mentored two Super Bowl MVP quarterbacks and was offensive coordinator for just one national championship team. Damn, I wish we had you as an offensive coach.

Okay, I apologize for the sarcasm, but your post was ridiculous.

Look, that Pitt offense you liked so much -- a year ago, running the same offense (and with a first-round NFL wide receiver in the lineup), Pitt averaged 28.2 points a game -- 3.3 points LESS a game than Duke (31.5) with its predictable, unimaginative offense.

Last year, without a single skill performer who got any All-ACC votes, Duke's stale, unimaginative offense averaged more points a game than Louisville, Michigan State or Miami. We averaged almost exactly the same as Florida State. We averaged just a couple of points less than Notre Dame and Alabama (33.6) with all their NFL talent. we averaged more than Auburn, Florida, Texas, Penn State, Texas A&M.

I'm sorry, but listening to complaints about Duke's offensive scheme sound an awful lot to me like the complaints I heard 32-34 years ago about our young basketball coach and his stubborn refusal to play nothing but man-to-man defense. Heck, it sounds a lot like the self-anointed experts who posted here a decade ago and complained that K was not playing enough people and was shooting too many 3-pointers,

There's nothing wrong with Cut's offensive scheme. The biggest problem we're having is inexperience across the board -- especially at quarterback. I repeat what I said earlier -- Daniel Jones is going to be a fine quarterback, but he's having growing pains now. He doesn't have a real playmaker at wide receiver. And our offensive line is enduring its own growing pains and that's hurting our running game.

But over the last four years, Cut's offenses have averaged over 31 points a game each season. Of course, in each of those seasons we had an experienced (no less than a redshirt junior) quarterback.

Hustle, you don't want to blame a young QB because (in your words) "why all the lack of imagination the past several years?" Well, all that lack of imagination has led to the third most consistent offense in the ACC over the last four years -- behind Clemson and FSU (and they get a LOT more talent ... so do several other schools that can't match Cut's offensive output)

Okay, we're having an off year ... injuries and inexperience have created growing pains.

But what don't need are self-anointed experts telling us what a lousy scheme our coaches are running.

Interesting to me how some people react when one asks an honest question. Any reasonable person reading my post would agree that I do not view myself as a "self-appointed expert." I mentioned my extremely modest football pedigree simply to show that I care about good football, that I do know a little about football and have been an avid fan for many years. That's all. I stated that "I know a little." [still stand by that] and that many of you know more. I stated that I honestly don't get it. Is that so hard to take without ridiculing me with sarcasm?

Any reasonable person would read my post as a sincere request to be enlightened -- sure seems to me that Duke's offense is very predictable and unimaginative, but, yes, I may be wrong. Those of you who know more, please tell me how I should look at Duke's offense differently.

Your statistics on ACC offenses are very pertinent. Thank you. I just wish I wouldn't have to read them knowing that I am a ridiculous, self-appointed expert.

fwiw, I stopped posting on DBR a couple of years ago, and thought I would try again. I stopped posting because I found that when I raised an honest doubt about something Coach K was doing [such as sticking with aggressive man to man even though we didn't have the back court talent and the front court help; Jim Larranaga, after Miami solidly defeated Duke at home, said it was not difficult beating Duke offensively -- just draw the guards out and blow by them;] I was pilloried because I didn't have 1,000 wins, etc, etc.

So, since I don't have near the wins and knowledge of Coach Cut and Olympic Fan, I will bow out again. Go Duke!

OldPhiKap
09-20-2016, 08:44 PM
Interesting to me how some people react when one asks an honest question. Any reasonable person reading my post would agree that I do not view myself as a "self-appointed expert." I mentioned my extremely modest football pedigree simply to show that I care about good football, that I do know a little about football and have been an avid fan for many years. That's all. I stated that "I know a little." [still stand by that] and that many of you know more. I stated that I honestly don't get it. Is that so hard to take without ridiculing me with sarcasm?

Any reasonable person would read my post as a sincere request to be enlightened -- sure seems to me that Duke's offense is very predictable and unimaginative, but, yes, I may be wrong. Those of you who know more, please tell me how I should look at Duke's offense differently.

Your statistics on ACC offenses are very pertinent. Thank you. I just wish I wouldn't have to read them knowing that I am a ridiculous, self-appointed expert.

fwiw, I stopped posting on DBR a couple of years ago, and thought I would try again. I stopped posting because I found that when I raised an honest doubt about something Coach K was doing [such as sticking with aggressive man to man even though we didn't have the back court talent and the front court help; Jim Larranaga, after Miami solidly defeated Duke at home, said it was not difficult beating Duke offensively -- just draw the guards out and blow by them;] I was pilloried because I didn't have 1,000 wins, etc, etc.

So, since I don't have near the wins and knowledge of Coach Cut and Olympic Fan, I will bow out again. Go Duke!

I am in favor of any Duke football fan, let alone one who posts. You both know more than I do, and I learned from both posts. Thanks.

hustleplays
09-20-2016, 09:04 PM
Interesting to me how some people react when one asks an honest question. Any reasonable person reading my post would agree that I do not view myself as a "self-appointed expert." I mentioned my extremely modest football pedigree simply to show that I care about good football, that I do know a little about football and have been an avid fan for many years. That's all. I stated that "I know a little." [still stand by that] and that many of you know more. I stated that I honestly don't get it. Is that so hard to take without ridiculing me with sarcasm?

Any reasonable person would read my post as a sincere request to be enlightened -- sure seems to me that Duke's offense is very predictable and unimaginative, but, yes, I may be wrong. Those of you who know more, please tell me how I should look at Duke's offense differently.

Your statistics on ACC offenses are very pertinent. Thank you. I just wish I wouldn't have to read them knowing that I am a ridiculous, self-appointed expert.

fwiw, I stopped posting on DBR a couple of years ago, and thought I would try again. I stopped posting because I found that when I raised an honest doubt about something Coach K was doing [such as sticking with aggressive man to man even though we didn't have the back court talent and the front court help; Jim Larranaga, after Miami solidly defeated Duke at home, said it was not difficult beating Duke offensively -- just draw the guards out and blow by them;] I was pilloried because I didn't have 1,000 wins, etc, etc.

So, since I don't have near the wins and knowledge of Coach Cut and Olympic Fan, I will bow out again. Go Duke!

I reflected on my prior posts, and I feel remiss in saying that I highly admire and respect -- well, I revere -- Coach Cut. When I wrote my first post and my response to Olympic Fan's constructive critique, I was focused on the issue at hand. And I hadn't thought for a moment that an honest questioning of Cut's offense would be construed as devaluing Cut's abilities and accomplishments.

Coach Cut is one of Duke's treasures. I have been an executive leadership coach for many years, and I teach ethical leadership. Coach Cut is one of the most powerful, effective ethical leaders I have ever witnessed. As one of my colleagues said recently, "Coach Cut runs a leadership development program disguised as a football program." Cut's nurturing of the Manning brothers is just one jewel in an amazing football legacy, still being created. How Coach Cut has turned around Duke's football program is outstanding. My two sons were undergraduates here over eight long years of a football wasteland. I think they witnessed about two or three wins over their combined years. augh.

Coach Cut's letter to Pitt's RB James Connor showed amazing class and what Coach Cut's core values are.

I added this post simply because I didn't want my critique and questions about Coach Cut's offense to be my parting words on DBR about this great person and coach.

ipatent
09-20-2016, 09:04 PM
It's amazing how many knowledgeable football fans post here, the past 50 years must have been much more excruciating for you than the rest of us!

Olympic Fan
09-20-2016, 10:16 PM
fwiw, I stopped posting on DBR a couple of years ago, and thought I would try again. I stopped posting because I found that when I raised an honest doubt about something Coach K was doing [such as sticking with aggressive man to man even though we didn't have the back court talent and the front court help; Jim Larranaga, after Miami solidly defeated Duke at home, said it was not difficult beating Duke offensively -- just draw the guards out and blow by them;] I was pilloried because I didn't have 1,000 wins, etc, etc.


Sorry I hurt your feelings ... but when you post on a message board, you're going to get criticism -- certainly I've earned my share ... even someone as non-partisan and factually helpful as Jim Sumner has gotten blasted at times.

And your "simple, honest question" was was headlined "Unbelievably Unimaginative Offense" (I didn't see the question mark). A bunch of other insults for the Duke offense follow before you get to that "honest question".

You are certainly free to hurl those insults, but don't be surprised when somebody strikes back.

PS But you did make me laugh, so thanks for that -- you post your somber farewell and announce that you are "bowing out again" then you are back 24 minutes later with another post. Great exit.

duke09hms
09-20-2016, 10:35 PM
Interesting to me how some people react when one asks an honest question. Any reasonable person reading my post would agree that I do not view myself as a "self-appointed expert." I mentioned my extremely modest football pedigree simply to show that I care about good football, that I do know a little about football and have been an avid fan for many years. That's all. I stated that "I know a little." [still stand by that] and that many of you know more. I stated that I honestly don't get it. Is that so hard to take without ridiculing me with sarcasm?

Any reasonable person would read my post as a sincere request to be enlightened -- sure seems to me that Duke's offense is very predictable and unimaginative, but, yes, I may be wrong. Those of you who know more, please tell me how I should look at Duke's offense differently.

Your statistics on ACC offenses are very pertinent. Thank you. I just wish I wouldn't have to read them knowing that I am a ridiculous, self-appointed expert.

fwiw, I stopped posting on DBR a couple of years ago, and thought I would try again. I stopped posting because I found that when I raised an honest doubt about something Coach K was doing [such as sticking with aggressive man to man even though we didn't have the back court talent and the front court help; Jim Larranaga, after Miami solidly defeated Duke at home, said it was not difficult beating Duke offensively -- just draw the guards out and blow by them;] I was pilloried because I didn't have 1,000 wins, etc, etc.

So, since I don't have near the wins and knowledge of Coach Cut and Olympic Fan, I will bow out again. Go Duke!

It's okay man, some people here have very thin skins and can't tolerate any criticism of Cutcliffe or K. No matter how well-reasoned it is. I've also felt the same about the predictable play-calling. The last time I thought we had dynamic play-calling was in 2013, and it's really dipped since Montgomery became OC in 2014. I was hoping it'd get a bit more imaginative this year when Scottie left for ECU, but it's hard to make a call on that so far since we're so bad across the board. Having a weak offensive line for the first time in years really does limit what we can do as well.

The arguments about how effective our offense has been through the last few years as evidence for a creative offense are logically flawed. In fact, all it demonstrates is how much better we could have been. We had a stout offensive line, one of the best running QBs in the country, and a great RB tandem in Wilson/Duncan. Throw in some misdirection and counters, and we likely could have been even more effective. Or I dunno we could just keep running Wilson up the middle instead of sweeps/toss plays to the outside.

sagegrouse
09-21-2016, 07:53 AM
I reflected on my prior posts, and I feel remiss in saying that I highly admire and respect -- well, I revere -- Coach Cut. When I wrote my first post and my response to Olympic Fan's constructive critique, I was focused on the issue at hand. And I hadn't thought for a moment that an honest questioning of Cut's offense would be construed as devaluing Cut's abilities and accomplishments.

Coach Cut is one of Duke's treasures. I have been an executive leadership coach for many years, and I teach ethical leadership. Coach Cut is one of the most powerful, effective ethical leaders I have ever witnessed. As one of my colleagues said recently, "Coach Cut runs a leadership development program disguised as a football program." Cut's nurturing of the Manning brothers is just one jewel in an amazing football legacy, still being created. How Coach Cut has turned around Duke's football program is outstanding. My two sons were undergraduates here over eight long years of a football wasteland. I think they witnessed about two or three wins over their combined years. augh.

Coach Cut's letter to Pitt's RB James Connor showed amazing class and what Coach Cut's core values are.

I added this post simply because I didn't want my critique and questions about Coach Cut's offense to be my parting words on DBR about this great person and coach.
You're confusing the Board itself with a few ornery characters that like to debate at any opportunity. They have other virtues, of course. I hope you change your mind.

Scorp4me
09-21-2016, 10:44 AM
It's really hard to advocate for a complex offense when we have more than half a dozen (I'm not sure what it is exactly, I think it's eight) lost fumbles on the year. We can't handle basic, simple handoffs. Heck, Daniel Jones literally hit Nash in the facemask with a throw. You gotta hold on to the ball if it touches your hands, whether taking handoffs or catching passes. Once we get that taken care of, then I may start calling for some jet sweeps or misdirections.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 3 of those turnovers came from our 3rd string quarterback in the NCCU game and 2 from our punter. So I don't think that's an indication of our starting offense...although there is plenty of other things that are I'll admit :)

jimsumner
09-21-2016, 12:26 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 3 of those turnovers came from our 3rd string quarterback in the NCCU game and 2 from our punter. So I don't think that's an indication of our starting offense...although there is plenty of other things that are I'll admit :)

Technically, Parker's dropped snaps weren't turnovers but rather attempted rushes on fourth down that resulted in losing the ball on downs.

In practical terms, the same impact as a turnover. But in statistical terms, the same as any other failed fourth-down attempt.

OldPhiKap
09-21-2016, 01:10 PM
It's hard to expect a terribly dynamic and complex offense from a freshman QB early in the season. Hopefully that will expand. But as others have said, right now it seems that executing what's on the table has to be goal number one.

We should be able to run. That should open up the pass. Jones seems to have a good downfield upside. And we should be able to flip the field when forced to punt. Just play solid, make fewer mistakes than the other guy, see what happens at win time.

And I don't expect to see many punts or FG attempts against Notre Dame once we get to midfield.