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scottdude8
09-10-2016, 05:38 PM
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to watch the game last week, but I'm watching this week and the crowd definitely seems a little light. It's frustrating seeing the program continue to improve over the last 4-5 years but the crowds and the student section not similarly improving.

I'm hoping that maybe this is just a perception issue from TV. Can someone who has been at the games shed some light on this? I'm especially curious how much the student section has improved from my days from 2008-2012 in which I was sometimes one of only 100 students in the whole section, lol.

-jk
09-10-2016, 06:06 PM
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to watch the game last week, but I'm watching this week and the crowd definitely seems a little light. It's frustrating seeing the program continue to improve over the last 4-5 years but the crowds and the student section not similarly improving.

I'm hoping that maybe this is just a perception issue from TV. Can someone who has been at the games shed some light on this? I'm especially curious how much the student section has improved from my days from 2008-2012 in which I was sometimes one of only 100 students in the whole section, lol.

Ugly heat and an overall diminishing attendance at sporting events...

It's why we don't need bigger venues at Duke.

unc is struggling to fill the DESSAC.

-jk

nyesq83
09-10-2016, 07:00 PM
And poor play by a young football team does not help.

dukelifer
09-10-2016, 08:02 PM
Ugly heat and an overall diminishing attendance at sporting events...

It's why we don't need bigger venues at Duke.

unc is struggling to fill the DESSAC.

-jk

Heat was a big issue. Saw two people need Medical attention. The Duke side is fairly shaded but the opposite side is brutal. Today was pretty bad. With more seats- the stadium looks more empty. Duke gave away GA seasons for $5 with some cans of food. Even with that- not a big draw. The stadium and additions are beautiful but that will not bring people to the stadium. Not sure what Duke can do - except schedule Alabama every year. They come in big numbers!

Faison1
09-10-2016, 09:34 PM
Heat was a big issue. Saw two people need Medical attention. The Duke side is fairly shaded but the opposite side is brutal. Today was pretty bad. With more seats- the stadium looks more empty. Duke gave away GA seasons for $5 with some cans of food. Even with that- not a big draw. The stadium and additions are beautiful but that will not bring people to the stadium. Not sure what Duke can do - except schedule Alabama every year. They come in big numbers!

I've always felt if they want to get consistent crowds, somehow they need to incorporate the town of Durham. Maybe through a schools program, where kids get free tickets....hopefully it would create and develop a local fan base over time.

CrazyNotCrazie
09-10-2016, 09:46 PM
I know they only have so much control over this, but given the rush to finish things up at the stadium, I don't know why we opened with two home games. Opening on the road would have given them a bit more time for construction, plus would have reduced the odds of a brutally hot game like today.

dukelifer
09-10-2016, 09:47 PM
I've always felt if they want to get consistent crowds, somehow they need to incorporate the town of Durham. Maybe through a schools program, where kids get free tickets...hopefully it would create and develop a local fan base over time.

Could work. Anything is worth a try.

DU82
09-10-2016, 10:59 PM
We had an almost full stadium last week, by offering employees discount tickets. Didn't have that interest today, even with the possibility of buying $5 tickets.

As long as ESPN insists on afternoon games in September you won't find a lot of people sitting on the east side. Brutal over there. (Admittedly, when I was an undergrad, we didn't have lights so each game started at 1:30. Don't really recall what the crowds looked like on that side.). Most of the west side reserved seats were in the shade. The GA sections on the end (31, 32) were empty except at the top where there was a little shade.

As mentioned in another thread, if it's not convenient to attend, due to parking, security, heat, etc., HD (and soon 4K) TV makes it better to watch at home for many non-affiliated fans (the casual "what's there to do today" types.). It not just at WW.

throatybeard
09-11-2016, 12:08 AM
I reckon Marshal Manning will be a frosh in 2030. We will rock attendance then.

I mean, assuming the sport is still played.

CameronBlue
09-11-2016, 12:12 AM
I reckon Marshal Manning will be a frosh in 2030. We will rock attendance then.

I mean, assuming the sport is still played.

Can you get CTE from WATCHING a bad game? The line play today had me beating my head against hard objects.

throatybeard
09-11-2016, 12:20 AM
Can you get CTE from WATCHING a bad game? The line play today had me beating my head against hard objects.

Duke vs NC State, 3 November 2001. Yeah, sure could.

Scorp4me
09-11-2016, 01:06 AM
Ugly heat and an overall diminishing attendance at sporting events...

It's why we don't need bigger venues at Duke.

unc is struggling to fill the DESSAC.

-jk

I honestly think jk hit the nail on the head. All this money we are getting from the television contracts is great, but it's given people so much easier access to the games. You just can't have it both ways. I thought Duke had a great opportunity to focus on quality over quantity when remodeling. I guess they did a good job not increasing the seating capacity too much, but had I been in their shoes I would have focused on quality. Instead with the small seats it's even easier than ever to see how empty an even larger stadium is. This isn't just Duke, most schools are struggling with it. When you can sit in the luxury of your own house and watch the game for considerably less money...it's hard to justify spending all day in the heat while paying much more (not just tickets but gas, time, and food) on a consistent basis. I do it, but I have to admit sometimes it just feels nice to skip it and cheer from the comfort of my own home.

Devilwin
09-11-2016, 05:11 AM
I would love to see bigger crowds supporting our team. It's hard for me to get there except for later games because of my work schedule, but we come when we can.
It's very distressing however, to see the other team's fans outnumbering ours 3 to 1 in our own stadium. And it's not for a lack of a fan base, because there are tons of Duke fans here. To be frank, in years past, you really couldn't blame people from staying away because of the product we put on the field. But Cut has done wonders with the team (although this team appears to be rebuilding) and the stadium has undergone some beautiful renovations.
I cringe when I hear "Duke's a basketball school". And then I know folks that only pull for us during basketball season, splitting their allegiance with some other school, like Alabama or FSU during football season.
I once heard two UNC fans talking about getting tickets for a game at Duke. One said there was no need to worry, Duke never brings a crowd, even to their home games.
Made me sick to admit he was correct..:mad:

Bob Green
09-11-2016, 06:32 AM
The crowd characteristic I find depressing is the number of folks who leave at halftime. With the score tied 7 - 7 yesterday, thousands of people were leaving the stadium at halftime. Thousands! No exaggeration. Why? The heat was bad but the temperature was starting to cool.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-11-2016, 06:57 AM
The crowd characteristic I find depressing is the number of folks who leave at halftime. With the score tied 7 - 7 yesterday, thousands of people were leaving the stadium at halftime. Thousands! No exaggeration. Why? The heat was bad but the temperature was starting to cool.

Maybe they thought they could re-enter?

dukelifer
09-11-2016, 06:58 AM
The crowd characteristic I find depressing is the number of folks who leave at halftime. With the score tied 7 - 7 yesterday, thousands of people were leaving the stadium at halftime. Thousands! No exaggeration. Why? The heat was bad but the temperature was starting to cool.

I think a bunch also moved to the other side of the stadium to get away from the heat.

oldnavy
09-11-2016, 07:19 AM
The crowd characteristic I find depressing is the number of folks who leave at halftime. With the score tied 7 - 7 yesterday, thousands of people were leaving the stadium at halftime. Thousands! No exaggeration. Why? The heat was bad but the temperature was starting to cool.

My nephew and his wife left at half, because she was feeling sick... she had had a migraine early in the day, but shook it off, only to have it comeback while sitting in the heat. She is young (early 20's) and it got to her. My brother (65) who is undergoing chemo had to go the the EMT tent in the first half, but rallied and stuck it out. In retrospect, he probably should not have even come in the first place, but God bless him... he is a trooper!

I suspect most of the departures were due to the heat... just based on my two personal experiences.

The uninspired play on the field probably was not the main reason, but may have contributed to some pulling chocks and taking off.... It's bad enough being miserable in the heat, but when you are not really being entertained by the play on the field, well... I can understand the motivation for leaving. I don't condone it, but I do understand it. We stayed until the bitter end, but I did have thoughts of going early a couple of times to be honest...

OldBlue
09-11-2016, 09:32 AM
I was at the game yesterday. The very young Duke squad put up a good fight, but they made a lot of mistakes that can be blamed largely on inexperience, not lack of talent. That said . . .

By the fourth quarter I was ready to shoot myself I was so hot and tired from sitting there (and I was under the overhang!!). The first 7 minutes of game clock took only 15 minutes in real time to play. The last 53 minutes of game clock took 175 minutes to play. The last two minutes of the first half took over 15 minutes in real time. Finally left the game with a little over 9 minutes to go. After a 15 minute walk to the car, and a 15 minute drive home there was still a minute forty left in the game when I pulled into the driveway! Timeouts go on forever, and you have to blame the TV coverage. Duke is also trying to be minor league baseball by trying to include various "crowd entertainment" during the timeouts. Believe me, those things aren't improving the experience.

These games are made for TV, not watching them live. Who wants to sit in that heat for three and a half hours when you can see the game as well (or better?) at home in air conditioned comfort and food that isn't overpriced.

I don't blame Duke for the game length. That falls on the ACC and college football as a whole. But if you are trying to recover a program like Duke is (and Cut has been brilliant), the game length makes it hard to get fans in the stands and to get them to stay.

jimsumner
09-11-2016, 10:35 AM
I was at the game yesterday. The very young Duke squad put up a good fight, but they made a lot of mistakes that can be blamed largely on inexperience, not lack of talent. That said . . .

By the fourth quarter I was ready to shoot myself I was so hot and tired from sitting there (and I was under the overhang!!). The first 7 minutes of game clock took only 15 minutes in real time to play. The last 53 minutes of game clock took 175 minutes to play. The last two minutes of the first half took over 15 minutes in real time. Finally left the game with a little over 9 minutes to go. After a 15 minute walk to the car, and a 15 minute drive home there was still a minute forty left in the game when I pulled into the driveway! Timeouts go on forever, and you have to blame the TV coverage. Duke is also trying to be minor league baseball by trying to include various "crowd entertainment" during the timeouts. Believe me, those things aren't improving the experience.

These games are made for TV, not watching them live. Who wants to sit in that heat for three and a half hours when you can see the game as well (or better?) at home in air conditioned comfort and food that isn't overpriced.

I don't blame Duke for the game length. That falls on the ACC and college football as a whole. But if you are trying to recover a program like Duke is (and Cut has been brilliant), the game length makes it hard to get fans in the stands and to get them to stay.

In addition to the prolonged timeouts, we have prolonged video reviews. Don't get me wrong. I like the review process when they get it right---GRRR!!!--but it is another reason games just go on and on.

Avvocato
09-11-2016, 02:00 PM
In addition to the prolonged timeouts, we have prolonged video reviews. Don't get me wrong. I like the review process when they get it right---GRRR!!!--but it is another reason games just go on and on.

Another factor in why college games go on about a half hour longer than pro games is that the clock stops after first downs. Makes the game longer.

budwom
09-11-2016, 03:50 PM
I think a bunch also moved to the other side of the stadium to get away from the heat.

I can identify with that. After having had season tickets on the East side for the past 30+ years, we spent all of about
five minutes in those seats yesterday before concluding that it would be lunacy to sit there. Intensely uncomfortable.
Unfortunately the empty East side looks bad on TV, but it's only logical not to sit there when it's that painfully hot.

hallcity
09-11-2016, 03:55 PM
I can identify with that. After having had season tickets on the East side for the past 30+ years, we spent all of about
five minutes in those seats yesterday before concluding that it would be lunacy to sit there. Intensely uncomfortable.
Unfortunately the empty East side looks bad on TV, but it's only logical not to sit there when it's that painfully hot.

If there's going to be another round of renovations, Duke is going to have to look at something to give shade on the East side. It can be done.
6638

Merlindevildog91
09-11-2016, 04:03 PM
Another factor in why college games go on about a half hour longer than pro games is that the clock stops after first downs. Makes the game longer.

Apologies for going off topic briefly, but what is the rule as to how long the clock is supposed to stop? I started paying attention to this last year and on many occasions the chain gang is still puffing into place when the referee starts the clock.

In regards to the topic at hand, I wasn't impressed with the size of the crowd yesterday. It was too hot for people who weren't set on going to show up, even with cheap tickets.

JetpackJesus
09-11-2016, 05:28 PM
It does not help that WW capacity, which is small to by most stadium standards, is nearly triple the size of the entire university's student body. And unless things have changed in the last 15 years, most people in Durham do not seem to be Duke fans. Unless Duke can convert the local community into fans (someone mentioned this above) it will be a struggle to fill the stadium.

Olympic Fan
09-11-2016, 05:31 PM
It does not help that WW capacity, which is small to by most stadium standards, is nearly triple the size of the entire university's student body. And unless things have changed in the last 15 years, most people in Durham do not seem to be Duke fans. Unless Duke can convert the local community into fans (someone mentioned this above) it will be a struggle to fill the stadium.

That would be a good excuse if the student body was actually turning out ... I'm not sure there were 300 students in the stands Saturday, not counting the band. It was an awful student turnout.

sagegrouse
09-11-2016, 06:17 PM
It does not help that WW capacity, which is small to by most stadium standards, is nearly triple the size of the entire university's student body. And unless things have changed in the last 15 years, most people in Durham do not seem to be Duke fans. Unless Duke can convert the local community into fans (someone mentioned this above) it will be a struggle to fill the stadium.


It's not just the size of the student body. Duke has a geographically diverse student body both before enrollment and, as alumni, after graduation.

Even in the 1960's, when we won ACC championships three years in a row, Duke played only four home games a year (out of ten games total) because, as it was explained to me, there were four major program feeding off a relatively small market stretching from Raleigh to Winston-Salem.

It will take a special effort to fill the stadium regularly.

dukelifer
09-11-2016, 07:10 PM
That would be a good excuse if the student body was actually turning out ... I'm not sure there were 300 students in the stands Saturday, not counting the band. It was an awful student turnout.

And they left early. I wonder how many Duke kids are football fans these days- i.e. how many used to go to games at their high schools. My sense is that most students would care more if it was part of the culture like basketball is part of the culture -but it is not and would only become so if Duke was a national power. Duke has a remarkable basketball culture- hard to expect students will muster that kind of enthusiasm for every sport on campus. It is what it is.

Chillduck
09-11-2016, 10:10 PM
We sat on the East side and the heat was brutal. My wife ended up with sun poisoning. She is imposing my golf rule of 50/90. No games above 90 degrees or below 50 degrees. Wasn't sure if the ushers would let us sneak over to the west and all that shade.

Sixthman
09-11-2016, 11:16 PM
And they left early. I wonder how many Duke kids are football fans these days- i.e. how many used to go to games at their high schools. My sense is that most students would care more if it was part of the culture like basketball is part of the culture -but it is not and would only become so if Duke was a national power. Duke has a remarkable basketball culture- hard to expect students will muster that kind of enthusiasm for every sport on campus. It is what it is.

My daughter and a couple of her friends, all of whom live on west campus, came to the game. They left at the half to get some food, I think from the fabulous new dining facility in west Union. That they would think of doing this reflects some kind of problem. I don't know, too hot, boring game, not enough friends there, inadequate food options at the game. They were not allowed reentry when they returned. This is a bigger problem.

Avvocato
09-11-2016, 11:52 PM
Apologies for going off topic briefly, but what is the rule as to how long the clock is supposed to stop? I started paying attention to this last year and on many occasions the chain gang is still puffing into place when the referee starts the clock.

In regards to the topic at hand, I wasn't impressed with the size of the crowd yesterday. It was too hot for people who weren't set on going to show up, even with cheap tickets.

On a first down (in the field of play), the clock stops until the chains are re-set. The ref usually stands by the ball. Once the chains are re-set, he will blow his whistle, give a winding motion with his arm, and the clock will start again. In addition to making the game longer, it's a benefit when behind at the end of a game. They can provide clock stoppages, which allow you to call a quick play and try to be ready to snap the ball when the clock starts again.

alteran
09-12-2016, 07:36 AM
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to watch the game last week, but I'm watching this week and the crowd definitely seems a little light. It's frustrating seeing the program continue to improve over the last 4-5 years but the crowds and the student section not similarly improving.

I'm hoping that maybe this is just a perception issue from TV. Can someone who has been at the games shed some light on this? I'm especially curious how much the student section has improved from my days from 2008-2012 in which I was sometimes one of only 100 students in the whole section, lol.

We have this discussion every year.

To improve attendance this year, Duke has banned women's purses, cut down everything that provided shade, banned backpacks and pretty much anything that can provide comfort, moved the students into the endzone, and increased ticket prices.

Tailgaters are not allowed to leave and return to the venue (nor is anyone else. Games continue to be scheduled for times inconvenient to attendees, but good for television.

Did I leave anything out?

weezie
09-12-2016, 08:07 AM
...Did I leave anything out?

Duke is really "selling" the experience. This has been one dismal thread to read.

75Crazie
09-12-2016, 08:53 AM
We have this discussion every year.

To improve attendance this year, Duke has banned women's purses, cut down everything that provided shade, banned backpacks and pretty much anything that can provide comfort, moved the students into the endzone, and increased ticket prices.

Tailgaters are not allowed to leave and return to the venue (nor is anyone else. Games continue to be scheduled for times inconvenient to attendees, but good for television.

Did I leave anything out?
TV is forcing daytime September games (not new this year, but it does contribute to a degraded personal experience).

devildeac
09-12-2016, 09:38 AM
We have this discussion every year.

To improve attendance this year, Duke has banned women's purses, cut down everything that provided shade, banned backpacks and pretty much anything that can provide comfort, moved the students into the endzone, and increased ticket prices.

Tailgaters are not allowed to leave and return to the venue (nor is anyone else. Games continue to be scheduled for times inconvenient to attendees, but good for television.

Did I leave anything out?

#15: Duke has moved folks who have had parking passes for years in the Card Gym lot or a low-numbered Blue Zone lot to a higher-numbered Blue Zone lot or another lot farther away.

:o:rolleyes:

Reisen
09-12-2016, 09:43 AM
FWIW, we live in DC (4 hour drive), but are planning a family trip to a game this year (we'll bring 10-12 people). We'll wait until the weather cools off, though. Middle of the day in early September is not when I want to be in Durham.

Merlindevildog91
09-12-2016, 10:30 AM
On a first down (in the field of play), the clock stops until the chains are re-set. The ref usually stands by the ball. Once the chains are re-set, he will blow his whistle, give a winding motion with his arm, and the clock will start again. In addition to making the game longer, it's a benefit when behind at the end of a game. They can provide clock stoppages, which allow you to call a quick play and try to be ready to snap the ball when the clock starts again.

I know that's what the rule is supposed to be, but it hasn't happened at Duke in ages. The ref sets the ball on or between the hashmarks and then winds his arm without checking where the chains are. Often even the line of scrimmage marker isn't even set.

We sit in section 25, so I'm looking directly at the chain gang and the refs. I've noticed this quite a few times both this year and last year.

devildeac
09-12-2016, 10:34 AM
I know that's what the rule is supposed to be, but it hasn't happened at Duke in ages. The ref sets the ball on or between the hashmarks and then winds his arm without checking where the chains are. Often even the line of scrimmage marker isn't even set.

We sit in section 25, so I'm looking directly at the chain gang and the refs. I've noticed this quite a few times both this year and last year.

I'll verify this as we watched the ref, chain gang and clock several times and the folks moving the chains were hustling down the sidelines as the play was about to start after a first down.

devildeac
09-12-2016, 10:37 AM
I thought the crowd looked hot/scorched/baked, parched and sunburned on Saturday. :o

dukelifer
09-12-2016, 10:37 AM
My daughter and a couple of her friends, all of whom live on west campus, came to the game. They left at the half to get some food, I think from the fabulous new dining facility in west Union. That they would think of doing this reflects some kind of problem. I don't know, too hot, boring game, not enough friends there, inadequate food options at the game. They were not allowed reentry when they returned. This is a bigger problem.

Expensive lower quality food options at the game compared to West Union. Football food is football food but not a custom crepe or sushi at the bar. Duke has implemented a lot of changes that definitely inhibit access. In the end it is entertainment. Students will exhibit school spirit during basketball season.

devildeac
09-12-2016, 10:40 AM
Expensive lower quality food options at the game compared to West Union. Football food is football food but not a custom crepe or sushi at the bar. Duke has implemented a lot of changes that definitely inhibit access. In the end it is entertainment. Students will exhibit school spirit during basketball season.

You have apparently not had the pleasure of attending one of our tailgate buffets/feasts. ;)

AustinDevil
09-12-2016, 12:19 PM
We have this discussion every year.

To improve attendance this year, Duke has banned women's purses, cut down everything that provided shade, banned backpacks and pretty much anything that can provide comfort, moved the students into the endzone, and increased ticket prices.

Tailgaters are not allowed to leave and return to the venue (nor is anyone else. Games continue to be scheduled for times inconvenient to attendees, but good for television.

Did I leave anything out?

Yes: Unlike those libertine Baptists at Wake, Duke refuses to make money and attract more casual fans by selling alcohol to the general stadium.

dukelifer
09-12-2016, 01:30 PM
You have apparently not had the pleasure of attending one of our tailgate buffets/feasts. ;)
Sounds like you need to invite the students.

Edouble
09-12-2016, 02:05 PM
Yes: Unlike those libertine Baptists at Wake, Duke refuses to make money and attract more casual fans by selling alcohol to the general stadium.

Wake is actually (recently) non-sectarian now, FWIW.

CameronBornAndBred
09-12-2016, 02:16 PM
#15: Duke has moved folks who have had parking passes for years in the Card Gym lot or a low-numbered Blue Zone lot to a higher-numbered Blue Zone lot or another lot farther away.

:o:rolleyes:

"Another lot farther away" that up until this year was a non ID public lot. Which means that the non ID public that got to games early enough to take advantage now has an even longer walk. In their quest for more money, Duke is doing their damnedest to encourage people to stay home and not spend anything. * I wonder what folks at Fuqua think of these bright ideas.

* This includes IDs that, as DD pointed out, had parked in closer lots. That's the reward for years of financial contributions, you get booted further away. I know several people who are ID's solely for the parking passes and who may no longer cough up their $ next season.

oldnavy
09-12-2016, 02:52 PM
Would these issues be worth a petition? I have folks send me links to petitions from time to time. One, are they effective, does anyone have experience with them and two, would it be worth an effort on our part to get one going?

Devil in the Blue Dress
09-12-2016, 02:53 PM
Yes: Unlike those libertine Baptists at Wake, Duke refuses to make money and attract more casual fans by selling alcohol to the general stadium.
There is a slight difference in the situations which has nothing to do with any potential church affiliations. The Wake Forest is clearly not a part of the campus whereas the Duke stadium is part of the campus. It remains to be seen how long the matter of geographic location will influence policy decisions.

oldnavy
09-12-2016, 03:03 PM
There is a slight difference in the situations which has nothing to do with any potential church affiliations. The Wake Forest is clearly not a part of the campus whereas the Duke stadium is part of the campus. It remains to be seen how long the matter of geographic location will influence policy decisions.
I am in know way against alcohol... But unless I see some data that shows alcohol sales greatly increased attendance, I would be in favor of keeping the games "dry". I have been in several situations where drunken idiots have ruined what would have been a good enjoyable event. Now if NC ever legalizes pot.. ����
Just kidding... or am I??? ������

budwom
09-12-2016, 03:41 PM
We have this discussion every year.

To improve attendance this year, Duke has banned women's purses, cut down everything that provided shade, banned backpacks and pretty much anything that can provide comfort, moved the students into the endzone, and increased ticket prices.

Tailgaters are not allowed to leave and return to the venue (nor is anyone else. Games continue to be scheduled for times inconvenient to attendees, but good for television.

Did I leave anything out?

Good and fair summary. And the student section is fully in the sun, may I point out. Perhaps kids with 1400 SATs see the lunacy of spending three hours in brutal sun.
Again, I propose we take this to its logical conclusion where we watch the games on TV and perhaps Duke hires a few thousand people to sit on the East (camera view) side and cheer at something, anything.)

Agree with my old pal hallcity, they could and should devise some kind of shade cover on the East side.

May I gripe about one more thing? Would that obnoxious PA announcer please STOP SHOUTING EVERY MINUTE OF THE GAME? I have no idea who he is, but we now
profoundly despise him. Dead air can be good.

If Duke has any one person in charge of the "game day experience," he or she is not one of our brighter bulbs.

CrazyNotCrazie
09-12-2016, 04:29 PM
I have not fully baked this idea but one way to stimulate student attendance is to in some way tie seating priority at basketball games to attendance at football games (and other sports for that matter). Not that they should be our role models, but I believe the Tar Heels employ a system like this for a limited number of basketball tickets. There would obviously be nothing to stop students from swiping in and immediately leaving, I am hesitant to threaten the sanctity of Krzyzewskivlle, and I have a hunch that there is a pretty decent correlation between those who actually attend football games and those who are in the early tents in K-ville. But I am throwing the idea out there for better minds than my own to build on...

duke79
09-12-2016, 05:59 PM
I have not fully baked this idea but one way to stimulate student attendance is to in some way tie seating priority at basketball games to attendance at football games (and other sports for that matter). Not that they should be our role models, but I believe the Tar Heels employ a system like this for a limited number of basketball tickets. There would obviously be nothing to stop students from swiping in and immediately leaving, I am hesitant to threaten the sanctity of Krzyzewskivlle, and I have a hunch that there is a pretty decent correlation between those who actually attend football games and those who are in the early tents in K-ville. But I am throwing the idea out there for better minds than my own to build on...

I know we have this discussion on this Board before but I'm dismayed too at the pathetic attendance at the football games. I watched the Wake game last weekend and, at least on TV, it looked like a high school football game (and I'm sure more people attend some high school football games in Texas and other states). It has to hurt recruiting at least somewhat. What 4-star or 5-star football recruit wants to play four years in front of 10,000 to 15,000 fans each game when you can play in front of 60,000 to 105,000 fans at many of the other top football schools? Furthermore, I think Coach Cut, the players and everyone else involved with Duke football really deserve more support.

I think the Duke athletics marketing department has to be a lot more aggressive in trying to get bodies in the stands. Heck, I'd give away 2 to 4 FREE tickets (to most games, other than Carolina or Alabama) to every Duke employee. I'd give away free ticked to everyone under the age of 18 with severely discounted tickets to their parents (to get more people from the Durham and surrounding communities to come to the games). I think they should give away at every game, in the fourth quarter, four or five gift certificates (dinner for two) to the Angus Barn and other good restaurants in Durham to undergrad and grad students who attend the games (and are still there in the 4th quarter).

I would try everything and anything to get more bodies in to the seats. Yea, it would cost Duke some money but I cannot believe they are bringing in huge revenues from ticket sales to football games. And we're talking about a university with an operating budget of $2.3 BILLION dollars!

DU82
09-12-2016, 06:29 PM
"Another lot farther away" that up until this year was a non ID public lot. Which means that the non ID public that got to games early enough to take advantage now has an even longer walk. In their quest for more money, Duke is doing their damnedest to encourage people to stay home and not spend anything. * I wonder what folks at Fuqua think of these bright ideas.

* This includes IDs that, as DD pointed out, had parked in closer lots. That's the reward for years of financial contributions, you get booted further away. I know several people who are ID's solely for the parking passes and who may no longer cough up their $ next season.

The parking will be helped shortly by the opening of the 751 deck, with what I believe is 2900 spaces.

arnie
09-12-2016, 06:36 PM
The parking will be helped shortly by the opening of the 751 deck, with what I believe is 2900 spaces.

What is shortly?This school year?

CameronBornAndBred
09-12-2016, 06:37 PM
The parking will be helped shortly by the opening of the 751 deck, with what I believe is 2900 spaces.

I guarantee you, that won't change the situation of those that are IDs that used to park closer for years that are now parking in East Kapeepie. They will still be in E.K. next season. That's the Duke way of "more for us". I hope I'm wrong, I bet I'm not.

dukelifer
09-12-2016, 07:02 PM
I know we have this discussion on this Board before but I'm dismayed too at the pathetic attendance at the football games. I watched the Wake game last weekend and, at least on TV, it looked like a high school football game (and I'm sure more people attend some high school football games in Texas and other states). It has to hurt recruiting at least somewhat. What 4-star or 5-star football recruit wants to play four years in front of 10,000 to 15,000 fans each game when you can play in front of 60,000 to 105,000 fans at many of the other top football schools? Furthermore, I think Coach Cut, the players and everyone else involved with Duke football really deserve more support.

I think the Duke athletics marketing department has to be a lot more aggressive in trying to get bodies in the stands. Heck, I'd give away 2 to 4 FREE tickets (to most games, other than Carolina or Alabama) to every Duke employee. I'd give away free ticked to everyone under the age of 18 with severely discounted tickets to their parents (to get more people from the Durham and surrounding communities to come to the games). I think they should give away at every game, in the fourth quarter, four or five gift certificates (dinner for two) to the Angus Barn and other good restaurants in Durham to undergrad and grad students who attend the games (and are still there in the 4th quarter).

I would try everything and anything to get more bodies in to the seats. Yea, it would cost Duke some money but I cannot believe they are bringing in huge revenues from ticket sales to football games. And we're talking about a university with an operating budget of $2.3 BILLION dollars!
Duke gave away tickets to the last two games. The first game was 4 tickets to Duke employees and the second was general admission tickets for $5 if you bring in a can or two of food. Even with free or discounted tickets- they still did not fill the place. They could possibly do more - free tickets for employees for all games may start to get folks to get into the habit of attending.

DU82
09-12-2016, 07:42 PM
What is shortly?This school year?

The deck was one of the choices for basketball parking for season ticket holders.

throatybeard
09-12-2016, 08:38 PM
Even MBB has problems with student attendance. If you hitch FB attendance, in 95° LosingtoWakeville, to basketball attendance, it seems to me just as likely that you pull MBB down with FB rather than MBB pulling FB up.

gep
09-13-2016, 12:49 AM
Duke gave away tickets to the last two games. The first game was 4 tickets to Duke employees and the second was general admission tickets for $5 if you bring in a can or two of food. Even with free or discounted tickets- they still did not fill the place. They could possibly do more - free tickets for employees for all games may start to get folks to get into the habit of attending.

Yes... this is a good outcome. Get into the habit of a Saturday football game as WW... then go, regardless of the opponent. :cool:

cf-62
09-13-2016, 02:01 AM
We have this discussion every year.

To improve attendance this year, Duke has banned women's purses, cut down everything that provided shade, banned backpacks and pretty much anything that can provide comfort, moved the students into the endzone, and increased ticket prices.

Tailgaters are not allowed to leave and return to the venue (nor is anyone else. Games continue to be scheduled for times inconvenient to attendees, but good for television.

Did I leave anything out?

Ladies' purses are allowed - backpacks are not. What do you need? Outside food and drink are prohibited, you don't need a backpack to bring in a cushion or a blanket.

For the 47 students that showed up Saturday, I wish we could somehow allow them to sit in section 25 again. But honestly, if the students can't follow-up our first bowl win in 50 years by attending the NEXT conference game against an in-state rival that we were supposed to win, keep 'em in the end zone. We can put those seats to better use by getting donations to sit there.

As I've mentioned before, if you're paying $280 to get into a game, then another $20 to get 4 GA tickets and leave & return at halftime (with the GA tickets) is a nit.

How is 3:30 on a Saturday afternoon inconvenient to attendees? Forget the heat. It's hot at noon. It's hot at 3. It's hot at 6. 3:30 was the worst time for us last weekend, but we still went and made ourselves late for the next thing.

But honestly, the gameday experience just isn't good - period.

budwom
09-13-2016, 08:50 AM
Ladies' purses are allowed - backpacks are not. What do you need? Outside food and drink are prohibited, you don't need a backpack to bring in a cushion or a blanket.

For the 47 students that showed up Saturday, I wish we could somehow allow them to sit in section 25 again. But honestly, if the students can't follow-up our first bowl win in 50 years by attending the NEXT conference game against an in-state rival that we were supposed to win, keep 'em in the end zone. We can put those seats to better use by getting donations to sit there.

As I've mentioned before, if you're paying $280 to get into a game, then another $20 to get 4 GA tickets and leave & return at halftime (with the GA tickets) is a nit.

How is 3:30 on a Saturday afternoon inconvenient to attendees? Forget the heat. It's hot at noon. It's hot at 3. It's hot at 6. 3:30 was the worst time for us last weekend, but we still went and made ourselves late for the next thing.

But honestly, the gameday experience just isn't good - period.

Purses are NOT allowed, only tiny "clutches" with dimensions of 5 x 8 x1 inch that "fit in the palm of the hand"...("No purses of any kind")

Once again, the Days of Olde, September games were played at night (by and large). I'm afraid that casual fans have learned that sitting in the sun at WW when the
temp is 94 (and heat index is 100) is genuinely painful...I've sat on the sun side for 30+ years, and I'm throwing in the towel (moving to the West side)...When a game is on
TV and fans can sit at home and save $100 bucks or more, and not face the possibility of heat stroke, I fully understand.

I fully concur that the gameday experience ain't good...and it saddens me...

AustinDevil
09-13-2016, 08:59 AM
There is a slight difference in the situations which has nothing to do with any potential church affiliations. The Wake Forest is clearly not a part of the campus whereas the Duke stadium is part of the campus. It remains to be seen how long the matter of geographic location will influence policy decisions.

DitBD, thanks for the thoughtful reply. If the stadium's proximity/integration into campus is a part of the administration's thinking, I have to say that I don't get the importance of that factor. The Texas, SMU, and Tulane stadiums are part of their campuses too, but they make it work. (Though in Tulane's case, maybe all those years of Superdome play meant their crowd would revolt if alcohol wasn't continued in Yulman!) ;-)

aimo
09-13-2016, 10:16 AM
Wake is actually (recently) non-sectarian now, FWIW.

Not even recently. The Southern Baptists pulled out 30 years ago. I guess the "stigma" is still there.

sagegrouse
09-13-2016, 10:39 AM
Not even recently. The Southern Baptists pulled out 30 years ago. I guess the "stigma" is still there.

Memories of "no dancing on campus" and "daily 9 AM chapel" linger for longer than 30 years.

Lid
09-13-2016, 10:55 AM
Ladies' purses are allowed - backpacks are not. What do you need?
I want to go in with you! Definitely no purses allowed in the lines I've seen, nor in the official policy. Let me know when/where to meet you so we can go in together and I can bring my sunscreen, glasses case, keys, phone, and feminine hygiene paraphernalia in my purse. Saturday I wore capris with pockets to be able to bring those things, and was pretty uncomfortable in the sun all afternoon since I wore pants. Next time, I think I'll carry it all in my hat. Honestly.



It's hot at noon. It's hot at 3. It's hot at 6.
True, but the direct sun is MUCH less intense at 6 than at 3. The heat is not the only issue. Not sure where your seats are, but on the east side, the difference at 3 and 6 is... stark. By the time it was less brutal on the east side, the game had gotten so depressing it was hard to stay (although I did).

But yeah, we're in agreement that the gameday experience isn't good right now. I'm still going, but I can see a future where I stop. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago.

PDDuke85
09-13-2016, 11:25 AM
I know we have this discussion on this Board before but I'm dismayed too at the pathetic attendance at the football games. I watched the Wake game last weekend and, at least on TV, it looked like a high school football game (and I'm sure more people attend some high school football games in Texas and other states). It has to hurt recruiting at least somewhat. What 4-star or 5-star football recruit wants to play four years in front of 10,000 to 15,000 fans each game when you can play in front of 60,000 to 105,000 fans at many of the other top football schools? Furthermore, I think Coach Cut, the players and everyone else involved with Duke football really deserve more support.

I think the Duke athletics marketing department has to be a lot more aggressive in trying to get bodies in the stands. Heck, I'd give away 2 to 4 FREE tickets (to most games, other than Carolina or Alabama) to every Duke employee. I'd give away free ticked to everyone under the age of 18 with severely discounted tickets to their parents (to get more people from the Durham and surrounding communities to come to the games). I think they should give away at every game, in the fourth quarter, four or five gift certificates (dinner for two) to the Angus Barn and other good restaurants in Durham to undergrad and grad students who attend the games (and are still there in the 4th quarter).

I would try everything and anything to get more bodies in to the seats. Yea, it would cost Duke some money but I cannot believe they are bringing in huge revenues from ticket sales to football games. And we're talking about a university with an operating budget of $2.3 BILLION dollars!

I can appreciate trying to build a fan base by giving away tickets to Duke employees and other local Durham organizations and there is the expanded hero's corner but I would also recommend Duke give away tickets to both Ft Bragg and Seymour Johnson AFB. I suspect a young troop or airman on a limited budget might enjoy a sporting event.

duke79
09-13-2016, 12:09 PM
I can appreciate trying to build a fan base by giving away tickets to Duke employees and other local Durham organizations and there is the expanded hero's corner but I would also recommend Duke give away tickets to both Ft Bragg and Seymour Johnson AFB. I suspect a young troop or airman on a limited budget might enjoy a sporting event.

I agree !! I'm not a marketing person but I would try everything under the sun to get more people into the stands for the games. Free tickets, discounted tickets, promotions, give-aways, better game day experience, better food and drinks, (hopefully) better teams, better scheduling, etc.

aimo
09-13-2016, 01:50 PM
Memories of "no dancing on campus" and "daily 9 AM chapel" linger for longer than 30 years.

I graduated in 1992, and trust me, there were no lingering effects after only six years. Most students had no idea of the (then) recent changes. And they've had a sports bar on campus for years now.

jacone21
09-13-2016, 02:16 PM
... Next time, I think I'll carry it all in my hat. Honestly.
...

You could be onto something.

6644

CameronBornAndBred
09-13-2016, 02:36 PM
You could be onto something.

6644

Oooh...I could do that!! (My cooking partner, however...)

6645

Lid
09-13-2016, 02:41 PM
You could be onto something.

6644

This might be enough to get me to pick up crochet. I could do some kind of Duke pattern... hmmm...

CameronBornAndBred
09-13-2016, 02:42 PM
This might be enough to get me to pick up crochet. I could do some kind of Duke pattern... hmmm...

The one in my pic is a gift from Windsor. :D

TruBlu
09-13-2016, 04:15 PM
I can appreciate trying to build a fan base by giving away tickets to Duke employees and other local Durham organizations and there is the expanded hero's corner but I would also recommend Duke give away tickets to both Ft Bragg and Seymour Johnson AFB. I suspect a young troop or airman on a limited budget might enjoy a sporting event.

Great idea! Don't forget Shaw AFB and Camp Lejeune, and other nearby bases - even the ones in the Tidewater area. (I think there may be some folks on DBR that make the Tidewater to Durham trip.)

I know a couple of Marines who became lifelong Duke fans from attending some Duke Football and Basketball games.

And speaking from my own experience, military personnel are very appreciative (and deserving) of courtesy tickets offered to them.

As a side note, I unfortunately once passed on some free tickets to an unknown event and other stuff at the New York USO in order to get back to the ship and get some rest (we were the flagship for the NATO Fleet). MY friends didn't pass it up. It ended up being tickets and transportation to a Broadway show, followed by free dinner and drinks at the Playboy Club. I've been kicking myself in the you-know-what ever since.:p

DU82
09-13-2016, 09:16 PM
Once again, the Days of Olde, September games were played at night (by and large). I'm afraid that casual fans have learned that sitting in the sun at WW when the
temp is 94 (and heat index is 100) is genuinely painful...I've sat on the sun side for 30+ years, and I'm throwing in the towel (moving to the West side)...

Well, in the Days of Real Olde, night games weren't possible (until 1984), because there were no permanent lights in Duke Stadium/Wallace Wade Stadium.

sagegrouse
09-13-2016, 09:19 PM
Well, in the Days of Real Olde, night games weren't possible (until 1984), because there were no permanent lights in Duke Stadium/Wallace Wade Stadium.

Back in the day, the first home games were usually in early October. First, the academic calendar was different -- exams were after the New Year. Second, why would anyone play in daytime in early September?

In my four-year tenure, we had two September home games (21 and 29) -- both against South Carolina (wins, natch).

budwom
09-14-2016, 08:18 AM
Well, in the Days of Real Olde, night games weren't possible (until 1984), because there were no permanent lights in Duke Stadium/Wallace Wade Stadium.

true...i started watching Duke games in 1967 but didn't have season tix until 1985...football under the lights on a warm evening is (ironically) cool; sitting in 94 sun is frankly stoopid...

Bob Green
09-14-2016, 11:41 AM
(I think there may be some folks on DBR that make the Tidewater to Durham trip.)

I can confirm one DBR poster who makes the Tidewater to Durham trip.

Inonehand
09-14-2016, 11:54 AM
I am an alum and have been coming to games every year since graduation. The heat never keeps me away but it keeps my wife and young kid away. The ridiculous rules of what you can bring or not bring into the stadium go beyond pretty much every other school's. The "entertainment" is awful. We have a great engineering school...could they design a t-shirt gun that shoots higher than 8 rows up? And when people can't bring in their own water bottles, can you lower the price for the people that are actually dealing with 95 degrees in direct sun? I will be back every home game but I want to punch somebody in the face every time I pay $4 for a bottle of water. Lastly, if I can't run back out to my tailgate at halftime where I have good food prepared, how about having some decent food to buy inside the stadium. Lastly again...I was one of the lower level IDs moved from the Blue Zone to Chemistry. I hate it but understand. What I don't understand is why the Blue Zone isn't one huge lot. The number of spaces that could be gained by getting rid of all the curbs and medians in there is a large one. I will NEVER park in a parking deck for football. You can't grill in a parking deck. Ok. I'm done. See you on October 1!!!

devildeac
09-14-2016, 02:12 PM
I can confirm one DBR poster who makes the Tidewater to Durham trip.

And I can confirm 2-3 others who usually accompany said poster. ;)

ricks68
09-14-2016, 06:08 PM
Oooh...I could do that!! (My cooking partner, however...)

6645

Yours is no good for bringing in items, however, as it is already filled up.;)

ricks

DU82
09-14-2016, 09:47 PM
Lastly again...I was one of the lower level IDs moved from the Blue Zone to Chemistry. I hate it but understand. What I don't understand is why the Blue Zone isn't one huge lot. The number of spaces that could be gained by getting rid of all the curbs and medians in there is a large one. I will NEVER park in a parking deck for football. You can't grill in a parking deck. Ok. I'm done. See you on October 1!!!

The Blue Zone serves as regular parking, so removing the landscaping is not going to happen (minimum shade requirements set by the City.) Also, removing the curbs and medians will remove any "instruction" to those parking, making it less organized, and likely able to handle fewer vehicles. There's also grade differences between the various lots. You can realistically change that without a lot of work, and for minimal gain. There's reasoning that goes behind these types of decisions.

While you won't park in the 751 deck, others will, freeing up spaces in closer lots so you (and others) can tailgate.

budwom
09-15-2016, 07:31 AM
The Blue Zone serves as regular parking, so removing the landscaping is not going to happen (minimum shade requirements set by the City.) Also, removing the curbs and medians will remove any "instruction" to those parking, making it less organized, and likely able to handle fewer vehicles. There's also grade differences between the various lots. You can realistically change that without a lot of work, and for minimal gain. There's reasoning that goes behind these types of decisions.

While you won't park in the 751 deck, others will, freeing up spaces in closer lots so you (and others) can tailgate.

Speaking of Minimal Shade Requiresments! Too bad humans in stands aren't covered (literally)...

throatybeard
09-20-2016, 01:39 PM
Irrespective of the degree of Wake Forest's escape from the Southern Baptists, right around Wake Forest's Winston-Salem campus has never been a good place to purchase alcohol. It's a complete automobile-encircled area (University, Polo, Reynolda, what on the south I guess Reynolds Village I guess). There's no pedestrian street like 9th/Franklin/Hillsborough and not really all that much food/drink to serve Groves and the Joel, even. With the Dixie fairground right there. It's odd.

aimo
09-20-2016, 01:55 PM
Irrespective of the degree of Wake Forest's escape from the Southern Baptists, right around Wake Forest's Winston-Salem campus has never been a good place to purchase alcohol. It's a complete automobile-encircled area (University, Polo, Reynolda, what on the south I guess Reynolds Village I guess). There's no pedestrian street like 9th/Franklin/Hillsborough and not really all that much food/drink to serve Groves and the Joel, even. With the Dixie fairground right there. It's odd.

There used to be a couple of bars and the like on Deacon Blvd and around the intersection there near Joel. Not very good ones, but the students went there, anyway. Not sure what's there now.