Why So Few Men's BBall Recruits from Georgia?

[Spanarkel]

This is the first thread I've started on EK, but the recent signing of Milton HS's Alex O'Connell has led me to wonder why so few historical Men's BBall recruits from Georgia? On the ESPN Top 100 for 2017, Georgia has 9 players, the most of any state. Since Jim Suddath(East Point)in 1978, I recall only William Avery(from Augusta/graduated from Oak Hill), Mark Causey(Gainesville/played sparingly in his sole season of '01-'02), and the great Patrick Davidson(Atlanta). Duke recruited Lithonia's Tony Parker very hard four years ago, and hopefully will sign Pace Academy's Wendell Carter this fall. I may well have missed someone as well, but overall the numbers are small. I am ecstatic about the extremely high level of recruiting so I am NOT at all complaining. Is it Georgia's well-deserved reputation as a "football hotbed," the mediocre nature of a number of Georgia's public schools(although Milton HS and many other metro ATL public schools have fine reputations academically), or intense competition from in-state schools(though GaTech has been down recently and historically got a number of its best players from out-of-state/UGA hasn't been much of a BBall force to be sure)? I welcome comments from DBR's many well-informed posters. Thanks!

[PackMan97]

This is the first thread I've started on EK, but the recent signing of Milton HS's Alex O'Connell has led me to wonder why so few historical Men's BBall recruits from Georgia? On the ESPN Top 100 for 2017, Georgia has 9 players, the most of any state. Since Jim Suddath(East Point)in 1978, I recall only William Avery(from Augusta/graduated from Oak Hill), Mark Causey(Gainesville/played sparingly in his sole season of '01-'02), and the great Patrick Davidson(Atlanta). Duke recruited Lithonia's Tony Parker very hard four years ago, and hopefully will sign Pace Academy's Wendell Carter this fall. I may well have missed someone as well, but overall the numbers are small. I am ecstatic about the extremely high level of recruiting so I am NOT at all complaining. Is it Georgia's well-deserved reputation as a "football hotbed," the mediocre nature of a number of Georgia's public schools(although Milton HS and many other metro ATL public schools have fine reputations academically), or intense competition from in-state schools(though GaTech has been down recently and historically got a number of its best players from out-of-state/UGA hasn't been much of a BBall force to be sure)? I welcome comments from DBR's many well-informed posters. Thanks!

I think it's just that Duke doesn't get a lot of recruits from Georgia.

I can think of a few that have played at NC State recently:
JJ Hickson
Ryan Harrow
Lorenzo Brown
Richard Howell


if I had to guess, I'd say that GA is SEC terroritory which means it's football territory. It's the same reason there seems to be so many top basketall talents from NC. We are basketball territory. Kids grow up wanting to play ball for Duke or Carolina, maybe even an odd duck that wants to go to State or Wake. If you grow up in GA, it's all about the Dawgs. Maybe TN or Clemson if you are in upstate, or FL/FSU if you live down south. Either way you are surrounded by football culture.

At the end of the day, I'm sure you could field a top 25 team if you only took all the best from GA, but you could probably win an NCAA title if you took all the best from NC.

[Indoor66]

This is the first thread I've started on EK, but the recent signing of Milton HS's Alex O'Connell has led me to wonder why so few historical Men's BBall recruits from Georgia? On the ESPN Top 100 for 2017, Georgia has 9 players, the most of any state. Since Jim Suddath(East Point)in 1978, I recall only William Avery(from Augusta/graduated from Oak Hill), Mark Causey(Gainesville/played sparingly in his sole season of '01-'02), and the great Patrick Davidson(Atlanta). Duke recruited Lithonia's Tony Parker very hard four years ago, and hopefully will sign Pace Academy's Wendell Carter this fall. I may well have missed someone as well, but overall the numbers are small. I am ecstatic about the extremely high level of recruiting so I am NOT at all complaining. Is it Georgia's well-deserved reputation as a "football hotbed," the mediocre nature of a number of Georgia's public schools(although Milton HS and many other metro ATL public schools have fine reputations academically), or intense competition from in-state schools(though GaTech has been down recently and historically got a number of its best players from out-of-state/UGA hasn't been much of a BBall force to be sure)? I welcome comments from DBR's many well-informed posters. Thanks!

But your namesake I'd from N.J.! 😉😎

[OldPhiKap]

Two guesses and a comment:

1. Most tall fast kids who can jump also play wide receiver in the fall. Slower tall kids play tight end or LB. Many point guards also play QB or RB for their football teams. Football is religion down here. You may be a two-sport athlete, but one is played under the Friday Night Lights and the other is not.

2. This is SEC Country. While Georgia Tech is the ACC pin in the map here, it has a very small fan base state-wide. My guess is that UGa, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, etc. are much stronger natural draws.

Now the comment: I don't think the quality of "a number of" Georgia public schools has anything to do with it. We are not missing out an a disproportionate number of student-athletes from Georgia, as opposed to other places, because of academics.

[Troublemaker]

When you have 50 states, it's probably normal that there will be a small number of states where we overachieve in recruiting, a small number of states where we underachieve in recruiting, and then a big mass of states in the middle where things more or less go "according to plan." And there doesn't have to be an underlying reason for why a state falls into the "overachieve" bucket or the "underachieve" bucket. It could just be luck. Much like if you had 50 great-grandchildren, you wouldn't ask why some are short and some are tall.

I think if Duke's recruiting history by state were studied in depth, I think you'll find that Georgia isn't alone in the "underachieve" bucket. Or, you may find, as others have mentioned while using different words, that Georgia is NOT in the "underachieve" bucket at all but is actually part of the big mass in the middle. That is, perhaps Georgia just simply didn't produce many Duke-level basketball recruits until recently, but now that they ARE producing high-level talents, Duke will get our accustomed share of them. You mentioned the nine top-100 GA recruits in the 2017 class. Well, Duke is heavy favorites to end up with two of them; we already have O'Connell and we're heavy favorites for Carter.

[Spanarkel]

But your namesake I'd from N.J.! 😉😎



I suspect every true Duke fan on this board has a favorite Duke player: mine just happens to be Jim Spanarkel(closely followed by Antonio Lang and Shane Battier). Spanarkel maximized his physical attributes(modest)with his very heady play.

[Spanarkel]

That is, perhaps Georgia just simply didn't produce many Duke-level basketball recruits until recently, but now that they ARE producing high-level talents, Duke will get our accustomed share of them. You mentioned the nine top-100 GA recruits in the 2017 class.



You make a number of good points and I appreciate your response. The ESPN Top 100 for 2007 also has 9 Georgians so it's not a recent phenomenon for high-level talent to originate from a state where football IS king. I really think that Duke's having had just one solid contributor--William Avery--since 1978(with all apologies to Patrick Davidson)speaks for itself. I am very glad to see Alex O'Connell commit, and hope that Wendell Carter follows.

[budwom]

Basketball competition with lots of strong schools has been a much, much bigger tradition in the Northeast (and much of the Midwest) for a long long time.
Many years of strong public and parochial school, strong leagues, summer leagues. I don't mean to demean the fine hoopsters of the Peach State, but
I think it lags some other areas of the country in quite a few of those areas...which is NOT to say there aren't a lot of terrific players there.

[Indoor66]

I suspect every true Duke fan on this board has a favorite Duke player: mine just happens to be Jim Spanarkel(closely followed by Antonio Lang and Shane Battier). Spanarkel maximized his physical attributes(modest)with his very heady play.

I completely agree with you about Jim Spanarkel. He was a joy to watch. Not quick, not a leaper, just a complete winner.

[sagegrouse]

Basketball competition with lots of strong schools has been a much, much bigger tradition in the Northeast (and much of the Midwest) for a long long time.
Many years of strong public and parochial school, strong leagues, summer leagues. I don't mean to demean the fine hoopsters of the Peach State, but
I think it lags some other areas of the country in quite a few of those areas...which is NOT to say there aren't a lot of terrific players there.

In my era in the 1960's the number of recruited players who came from the South can be counted on two hands:


Carroll Youngkin, who was an All-ACC caliber performer, from Winston-Salem
Bob Jamison, also from Winston-Salem, who, after sitting on the bench for two years, decided to try football. I believe he was recruited.
Ted Mann, Jr., son of the Duke sports information director, who scored 20 points in his two years on the team. May not qualify as a recruited player, but the Duke connections meant he had a scholarship.
Terry Murray, a distant relevant of Sage's from Atlanta, who was recruited by Bubas, but made no impression in his two years. He was definitely recruited as one of the best players in Georgia.
Warren Chapman gets partial credit -- he's from Seabrook, Texas, and scored 200+ points at Duke.
C.B. Claiborne, Duke's first African-American player. I believe he qualifies as a recruited players, but others know his story much better -- he scored 218 points in his three years on the varsity.
Randy Denton from Raleigh, who closes out the decade, was the bookend to Carroll Youngkin. He was an All-ACC performer.


Only Youngkin and Denton were stars at Duke.
The list leaves out a few walk-ons -- Stuart McKaig, Dick Warren, Scott Williamson, etc.

and no, Jeff Mullins from Lexington, Ky. does not qualify as a player from the South.

[Spanarkel]

Basketball competition with lots of strong schools has been a much, much bigger tradition in the Northeast (and much of the Midwest) for a long long time.
Many years of strong public and parochial school, strong leagues, summer leagues. I don't mean to demean the fine hoopsters of the Peach State, but
I think it lags some other areas of the country in quite a few of those areas...which is NOT to say there aren't a lot of terrific players there.

Thanks! I think that your explanation summarizes the situation accurately.

[Olympic Fan]

In my era in the 1960's the number of recruited players who came from the South can be counted on two hands:


Carroll Youngkin, who was an All-ACC caliber performer, from Winston-Salem
Bob Jamison, also from Winston-Salem, who, after sitting on the bench for two years, decided to try football. I believe he was recruited.
Ted Mann, Jr., son of the Duke sports information director, who scored 20 points in his two years on the team. May not qualify as a recruited player, but the Duke connections meant he had a scholarship.
Terry Murray, a distant relevant of Sage's from Atlanta, who was recruited by Bubas, but made no impression in his two years. He was definitely recruited as one of the best players in Georgia.
Warren Chapman gets partial credit -- he's from Seabrook, Texas, and scored 200+ points at Duke.
C.B. Claiborne, Duke's first African-American player. I believe he qualifies as a recruited players, but others know his story much better -- he scored 218 points in his three years on the varsity.
Randy Denton from Raleigh, who closes out the decade, was the bookend to Carroll Youngkin. He was an All-ACC performer.


Only Youngkin and Denton were stars at Duke.
The list leaves out a few walk-ons -- Stuart McKaig, Dick Warren, Scott Williamson, etc.

and no, Jeff Mullins from Lexington, Ky. does not qualify as a player from the South.

You left out Brad Evans from Durham, who was in the class with Denton. Brad was the Ron Curry of his day -- a prep All-American quarterback who turned down Bear Bryant (and dozens of other football coaches) to play basketball for Vic Bubas. Brad played three seasons (including in the freshman team his freshman year), starting and averaged 9.9 points a game as a junior in 1970. He quit basketball the next year and switched to football.

Also at about that time, Tim Teer from Hillsborough scored 48 points in two seasons (69-70), but quit to concentrate on baseball (he was a better baseball player).

Also, Stuart Yarbrough was a recruited play from Durham's Jordan High School. He played three varsity seasons (70-72), scoring almost 300 career points. He became a starter in 1972 after Richie O"Connor quit the team and played a key role in Duke's ACC Tournament upset of NC State that year. Stu married one of Vic Bubas' daughters.

That's just three off the top of my head. I know Evans was a big-time recruit and I know Yarbrough was a legit recruit (he was a great prep star at Jordan). I'm not sure about Teer -- it seems like he was a combination basketball/baseball target, but he was listed at the time as basketball recruit.

[sagegrouse]

You left out Brad Evans from Durham, who was in the class with Denton. Brad was the Ron Curry of his day -- a prep All-American quarterback who turned down Bear Bryant (and dozens of other football coaches) to play basketball for Vic Bubas. Brad played three seasons (including in the freshman team his freshman year), starting and averaged 9.9 points a game as a junior in 1970. He quit basketball the next year and switched to football.

Also at about that time, Tim Teer from Hillsborough scored 48 points in two seasons (69-70), but quit to concentrate on baseball (he was a better baseball player).

Also, Stuart Yarbrough was a recruited play from Durham's Jordan High School. He played three varsity seasons (70-72), scoring almost 300 career points. He became a starter in 1972 after Richie O"Connor quit the team and played a key role in Duke's ACC Tournament upset of NC State that year. Stu married one of Vic Bubas' daughters.

That's just three off the top of my head. I know Evans was a big-time recruit and I know Yarbrough was a legit recruit (he was a great prep star at Jordan). I'm not sure about Teer -- it seems like he was a combination basketball/baseball target, but he was listed at the time as basketball recruit.

The only classes I actually saw were 1961 through 1966 (the latter being sophs), who were the only guys in school with me. I extended the list to 1969-1970 basically to add Randy Denton, who, with Carroll Youngkin, were the only stars from the South in that decade (both from North Carolina). Clearly the others are deserving.

[madscavenger]

Warren Chapman? Warren "stone hands" Chapman? Yes, that's the man. Hmmm, who else might we put on the All time "stone hands" team?

[devildeac]

Warren Chapman? Warren "stone hands" Chapman? Yes, that's the man. Hmmm, who else might we put on the All time "stone hands" team?

Tyus Jones.

Oh, wait, you said stone hands. ;):rolleyes: