Late additions to ACC Basketball

[Olympic Fan]

Big ACC news this morning -- grad transfer Andrew White just announced that he will play for Syracuse this season:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17409319/andrew-white-chooses-syracuse-orange-transfer

White was probably the best grad student on the transfer market (Note: a few transfers might be better, such as Derryck Thornton and Malik Newman, but they have to sit out next season ... White is the best who can play right away). A 6-6 wing from Richmond, he originally signed with Kansas, then transferred to Nebraska, where he was the team's leading scorer (16.6 ppg) and (more importantly for the 'Cuse), an excellent 41 percent 3-point shooter.

If you look at Jim Boeheim's roster, you can see the difference White makes. The 'Cuse has a strong frontcourt (Lydon, Robertson, Coleman and a 7-2 transfer from Providence), but nothing but question marks on the perimeter -- four-star recruit Tyus Battle is (or was) their best perimeter option.

Adding White lifts Syracuse from near the bottom (just above Wake, Georgia Tech and BC) to near the middle in my preseason ACC rankings. He's comparable in terms to impact to what Damien Lee brought to Louisville last year.

He's not the only late addition to the league. Earlier last week, Florida State added 6-4 P.J. Savoy from Sheridan Junior College in Wyoming. He's a Las Vegas kid whose father was the leading scorer for UNLV in the mid-1990s (and played pro ball overseas for a decade). He's a nice addition, although their need wasn't as great ... FSU was already a preseason top 25 team (according to the Blue Ribbon Basketball Yearbook). But Savoy -- who averaged 17 ppg and hit 43 percent from 3-point range -- adds another significant 3-point threat.

[tfk53]

Very nice late summer pick up for the "Cuse and FSU. Just not the time of year when you expect to add someone to your roster that can make an appreciable impact. Makes the ACC a bit stronger.

BTW, will we hear any cries of outrage from the talking heads about JB having an unfair recruiting advantage in getting this guy, coming right after his coaching TeamUSA in Rio??

[duke043]

Syracuse could be scary good this year - maybe the biggest threat to Duke in the ACC.

They think they have the best roster they've had in a decade - during which time they've gone to 2 (3?) Final Fours and have been a #1 seed 2 or 3 times.

They are 2-deep at every position. They're quite high on the 7'2 transfer from Providence (Chukwu?), who has been described as genetically created to play in the middle of that 2-3 zone.

The one thing they didn't have was 3-point shooting and experience at guard. They've added both this summer with 5th year transfers who scored double figures in major conferences. This guy White as honorable mention all Big Ten.

They will be ready for Duke's visit to the Carrier Dome this winter. Should be fun!!

[Olympic Fan]

Syracuse could be scary good this year - maybe the biggest threat to Duke in the ACC.

They think they have the best roster they've had in a decade - during which time they've gone to 2 (3?) Final Fours and have been a #1 seed 2 or 3 times.

They are 2-deep at every position. They're quite high on the 7'2 transfer from Providence (Chukwu?), who has been described as genetically created to play in the middle of that 2-3 zone.

The one thing they didn't have was 3-point shooting and experience at guard. They've added both this summer with 5th year transfers who scored double figures in major conferences. This guy White as honorable mention all Big Ten.

They will be ready for Duke's visit to the Carrier Dome this winter. Should be fun!!

I totally disagree about Syracuse. I rank them near the middle of the pack on the ACC -- maybe toward the lower end of that middle pack.

I love their frontcourt -- Tyler Lydon is a stud and Tyler Roberson is excellent. They have two big bodies in Coleman and Providence transfer Chukwu (who averaged 2.6 points and 1.5 rebounds at Providence), plus they picked up a very promising frontcourt recruit in Thompson.

But as much as I like their frontcourt, I have major questions about their perimeter game. The addition of White helps a lot, but I'm not sure it cures all their ills. Who plays point guard for instance? Frank Howard?

The only perimeter player returning is Howard, who saw very little action his freshman year (and hit 2-of-19 3-pointers). They have a grad transfer named John Gillon, a 6-0 guard who averaged 13 ppg at Colorado State (and shot 33 percent from 3-point range). They have one significant perimeter recruit -- Tyus Battle, a 6-5 four-star wing from New Jersey.

I like White and even Battle (who is not a 3-point shooter) on the perimeter. I'm not sure about Howard and Gillon -- both look pretty marginal to me.

Overall, I don't think the roster is especially impressive -- although White makes it much more passable. He gives them one 3-point shooter anyway. They do have depth up front, but not so much on the perimeter.

PS Not sure what Syracuse's seeds were before joining the ACC, but since arriving in the league, they've been a #3 seed/missed the tournament (and they would have missed in 2015 even if they had not self-imposed a post-season ban)/and #10 seed. They have reached the Final Four in 2013 and 2016 (as a 10th seed) -- those are the only two times since they won it in 2003.

[duke043]

You may be right, Olympic Fan. Syracuse has no obvious PG. (But neither does Duke have a proven PG).

PG candidates: They're extremely high on Howard and Battle. Both are players, but I'm not sure either is a PG. Regardless, they are no worse at PG than Gillon, and he has proven he can play PG at this level - averaging 13 ppg last year. (You are correct that his 3Pt% dropped off last year to 33%, but he was 39% before that.

7'2 Chukwu changes things for them inside that zone. He's an exceptional shotblocker, which allows the perimeter of their 2-3 zone to really extend.

I doubt they can beat Duke, but come March, I think they'll represent the ACC well.

[Sterling]

I totally disagree about Syracuse. I rank them near the middle of the pack on the ACC -- maybe toward the lower end of that middle pack.

I love their frontcourt -- Tyler Lydon is a stud and Tyler Roberson is excellent. They have two big bodies in Coleman and Providence transfer Chukwu (who averaged 2.6 points and 1.5 rebounds at Providence), plus they picked up a very promising frontcourt recruit in Thompson.

But as much as I like their frontcourt, I have major questions about their perimeter game. The addition of White helps a lot, but I'm not sure it cures all their ills. Who plays point guard for instance? Frank Howard?

The only perimeter player returning is Howard, who saw very little action his freshman year (and hit 2-of-19 3-pointers). They have a grad transfer named John Gillon, a 6-0 guard who averaged 13 ppg at Colorado State (and shot 33 percent from 3-point range). They have one significant perimeter recruit -- Tyus Battle, a 6-5 four-star wing from New Jersey.

I like White and even Battle (who is not a 3-point shooter) on the perimeter. I'm not sure about Howard and Gillon -- both look pretty marginal to me.

Overall, I don't think the roster is especially impressive -- although White makes it much more passable. He gives them one 3-point shooter anyway. They do have depth up front, but not so much on the perimeter.

PS Not sure what Syracuse's seeds were before joining the ACC, but since arriving in the league, they've been a #3 seed/missed the tournament (and they would have missed in 2015 even if they had not self-imposed a post-season ban)/and #10 seed. They have reached the Final Four in 2013 and 2016 (as a 10th seed) -- those are the only two times since they won it in 2003.

Syracuse fans definitely see their team as top-3 in the league at worst. I cover the ACC and just did an article on White so maybe I can give some perspective from the Orange's point of view.

At PG it will likely be a split between Gillon and Howard with Gillon getting the starting nod because I don't think Jimmy B. would bring in a grad transfer not to start. Don't let Gillon's 33% from behind the arc fool you, he shot just under 40% during his first two seasons in college (He spent his freshman season at Arkansas Little Rock). His has some deep range and can shoot both off the catch and the dribble. He is excellent in transition and is very good at getting into the cracks of the defense. Once he gets penetration he can finish with either hand or drop a pass off to a big man for an easy two. Howard is more like the PGs Syracuse has been getting over the last few years. He is long and a very good passer who knows how to run an offense. He didn't play a lot last year, but that has more to do with Mike Gbinije and Trevor Cooney playing 37.8 and 36.4 minutes a game respectively. Cuse fans like his potential, but some are uneasy about his ability to score since he rarely looked to get his own when he was in. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tyus Battle also get a few minutes at PG too if the situation calls for it. He is an excellent drive and kick type player.

At SG you will probably see Andrew White or Tyus Battle get the call with the other one possibly playing SF. Both guys have good size for the position and will make passing into the middle of the zone very difficult. On offense White is exactly what the Orange needed, a proven shooter. He shot 41% at Nebraska last year on just over six three-point field goals attempted a game. He is also a solid rebounder for the position pulling down six boards a game last season. Battle might be a little underrated going into the season. He was a top-10 player at one point in his HS career but injuries hurt him and he dropped down across most recruiting services. He might be the fastest player on Syracuse's roster end to end with the ball in his hand and is excellent around the rim and in the mid-range. He might not be a knockdown three-point shooter, but he is more than capable from behind the arc and has to be respected out there.

Things start to get interesting once you get to SF. Like I said before I could see whoever doesn't start at SG start here and give the Orange a very perimeter oriented look. The other candidate who could start here is Tyler Lydon. Lydon was forced to play out of position last season and did a very good job manning the middle for the Orange, but he is much better suited to play on the wing in the zone. At 6'9 he has excellent length for the wing and is already a proven shooter (40.5%) as well as a solid shot blocker (67 last year). He may be the most talented player on the Syracuse roster, but I think he is more likely to be a super-sub of sorts for Jim Boeheim who can come in at any of the frontcourt positions depending on the situation. Matthew Moyer is another guy that could see some minutes here as a freshman, but he is currently in a walking boot and the extent of the injury isn't public knowledge.

At PF you will more than likely see Tyler Roberson, who I'm sure you guys are all familiar with. He is a ravenous rebounder and a very good leaper who, when engaged, causes fits for the opposition. He doesn't have much of an offensive game, but has been working very hard this summer to add a fifteen foot jump shot to his game so we will see how that goes. When Roberson is out of the game you will see either Lydon or possibly even freshman Taurean Thompson get a few minutes. Thompson is a long big man with a decently developed offensive game for this stage of his career, but I wouldn't expect to see too much of him in big games this year. His time will come though.

Finally at C you will see Dajuan Coleman get the start. This is the first summer where Coleman has been healthy and doesn't have to worry about rehabbing his knees. He is a wide body who came in to Syracuse with a reputation as a weapon downlow. Now obviously that hasn't panned out yet, but Orange fans are hopeful that they can get something out of him this year before his career is done. He will split his time with Providence transfer Paschal Chukwu, who stands at 7'2. He is a very good shot blocker whose size will alter more than a few shots around the rim. His offensive game is a mystery at this point since he didn't play last season and was used sparingly as a freshman at Providence. Luckily for him he won't be relied on to do much heavy lifting on that side of the ball. He just needs to finish ally opps, dropoff passes and the occasional tip slam. If he does that he will be golden. Thompson could also see time at the center position as well, but he is probably the fourth option. Lydon will be the other guy you see in the middle this season, but only if Boeheim want to really stretch the floor.

Hopefully this answers some of the questions about why OrangeNation is so high on their guys this year. If you are interested I broke down some of the possible lineups you could see here: http://therunnersports.com/andrew-white-transfers-syracuse/

I for one can't wait for basketball season to arrive. I'll be floating around every team's board in the conference so this isn't just a hit and run post.

[Olympic Fan]

Syracuse fans definitely see their team as top-3 in the league at worst. I cover the ACC and just did an article on White so maybe I can give some perspective from the Orange's point of view.

I understand that there is optimism up there -- I just don't think it is warranted. Not to the extent that Syracuse will be a top 3 ACC team.

That's not to say they will be bad, but the ACC is going to be extraordinary this season.

I know that the preseason top 25 from the Blue Ribbon Yearbook has six ACC teams in the top 25 -- and Syracuse is not one of them. ESPN does have Syracuse at No. 25 -- but they are just the fifth ACC team listed. CBS picks six ACC teams in their preseason top 25+one -- and Syracuse is not one of them. NBC Sports has six ACC teams in its top 25 -- and, again, Syracuse is not one of them.

I think it's pretty clearcut that Duke, Virginia, UNC and Louisville will be preseason top 10 or close to it. FSU and NC State (if Yurtseven clears the clearinghouse) are also generally ranked higher. I would make the case for Virginia Tech at No. 7 ... Syracuse is somewhere in the mix with Clemson, Pitt (like Syracuse, they have a strong frontcourt and questionable guards), Notre Dame and Miami.

I do think 12 teams start next season with reasonable hopes of making the NCAA Tournament. They won't all do it, of course, but any of them could. Only Wake, Georgia Tech and BC won't be NCAA contenders.

[duke043]

Thanks Sterling. Great read!

Lydon off the bench is a scary thought.

To answer Olympic Fan's question (I wasn't able to provide specifics in an earlier post), Syracuse was a 1 seed in 2010 and 2013 and went to the Final Four in 2013 and 2016. They've gone to the Elite Eight in 3 of the last 5 years. I point that out because they think they have their best team of the past decade this year.

We'll see!

[Sterling]

I understand that there is optimism up there -- I just don't think it is warranted. Not to the extent that Syracuse will be a top 3 ACC team.

That's not to say they will be bad, but the ACC is going to be extraordinary this season.

I know that the preseason top 25 from the Blue Ribbon Yearbook has six ACC teams in the top 25 -- and Syracuse is not one of them. ESPN does have Syracuse at No. 25 -- but they are just the fifth ACC team listed. CBS picks six ACC teams in their preseason top 25+one -- and Syracuse is not one of them. NBC Sports has six ACC teams in its top 25 -- and, again, Syracuse is not one of them.

I think it's pretty clearcut that Duke, Virginia, UNC and Louisville will be preseason top 10 or close to it. FSU and NC State (if Yurtseven clears the clearinghouse) are also generally ranked higher. I would make the case for Virginia Tech at No. 7 ... Syracuse is somewhere in the mix with Clemson, Pitt (like Syracuse, they have a strong frontcourt and questionable guards), Notre Dame and Miami.

I do think 12 teams start next season with reasonable hopes of making the NCAA Tournament. They won't all do it, of course, but any of them could. Only Wake, Georgia Tech and BC won't be NCAA contenders.

I feel like with all the new faces they could see a bit of chemistry issues early on, but the talent is there. I would personally have them closer to fifth in the league behind the first four you listed, maybe challenge for fourth if things break their way. I'm not quite sold on FSU yet and I'm in wait and see mode regarding NC State and Yurtseven, but I love his potential. I just feel like he will end up like Kanter at Kentucky a few years back.