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WiJoe
08-27-2016, 04:45 PM
Hi!

I am thinking about making the trip to Cameron for Countdown to Craziness. I am looking for info on the pros and cons of attending, what goes on outside Cameron before and after the fun inside (maybe even the day before) and anything that will help make my decision easier.

Thanks in advance.

UrinalCake
08-27-2016, 11:16 PM
The event starts off with about two hours of student performances, which are various clubs that put on dance routines and such. Interspersed with these are ridiculously stupid contests like having students play musical chairs or sort potato chips into baskets. These are all sponsored by local businesses, honestly it's a little insulting that they make us sit through this so that Harris Teeter or Lays can try to market themselves to the undergrads. Anyways, this goes on interminably, until finally the actual C2C event starts.

They'll show some hype videos on the scoreboard screen, announce the players (with lots of pyrotechnics and seizure-inducing lights), and then play the scrimmage. Last year they got to reveal the 2015 Championship banner, which was awesome. Usually the scrimmage isn't much to take from, other than a chance to see some of the new guys for the first time. The bench guys will get some burn, but the players all get tired pretty quickly. This year I expect to be different though, because we're so freaking loaded. The game could actually be really competitive, and there's so much depth that we're actually fielding two legitimate teams that could each compete in the ACC. It was pretty obvious from C2C in 2014 that Oak was going to be an unstoppable force, just like in 2013 we saw an early look at how talented Jabari was.

Anyways, the Crazies are always in terrible form - not only do the new students not know any of the cheers, but there's not an opponent to cheer against, so it's eerily quiet for long stretches. After the scrimmage (two 10-minute periods) Coach K and the captains may say a few words. In past year's they've done a dunk contest, but last year they didn't. I REALLY hope they bring it back this year, because we've got two former McDonald's AA Dunk Contest winners on our squad in Grayson and Frank, plus guys like Harry, Jayson, Jeter, and Javin could put on quite a show. Two years ago Marshall won in an upset, when Grayson failed to even complete a dunk in the final round.

Also some years they've turned the event into an all-day carnival, with music outside the stadium, family activities like bounce houses for kids, and even opportunities to meet some of the players. Again, they didn't do this last year and I'm not sure if they'll do it this year.

I'll get to go as the spouse of a grad student this year, and am really looking forward to it. This year's team is going to be special. Honestly though, if I had to pay the $50 or whatever per ticket, and it took a significant effort to get there, I don't think I'd go. Hope you enjoy yourself!

rocketeli
08-29-2016, 08:51 AM
Perhaps Duke started countdown to craziness because "all the cool kids were doing it" e.g. UNC etc. using a season opening celebration for favorable publicity and recruiting. However, I don't think their hearts have ever really been in it--silliness (which is not a bad thing, necessarily) is not really Coach K's thing and I echo the reply above in terms of the experience. People like different things of course and it might be fun to go once and see for yourself, but it might not be worth spending a lot of money and time on. I just wait for the scrimmage and watch it online on whatever they are calling the video service you can sign up for on goduke these days.

elvis14
08-29-2016, 08:58 AM
Perhaps Duke started countdown to craziness because "all the cool kids were doing it" e.g. UNC etc. using a season opening celebration for favorable publicity and recruiting. However, I don't think their hearts have ever really been in it--silliness (which is not a bad thing, necessarily) is not really Coach K's thing and I echo the reply above in terms of the experience. People like different things of course and it might be fun to go once and see for yourself, but it might not be worth spending a lot of money and time on. I just wait for the scrimmage and watch it online on whatever they are calling the video service you can sign up for on goduke these days.

I think this is well said. I got tickets and went for the first time last year. I was so excited! For me, I liked the scrimmage and walked away wishing all the other silly acts could have been replaced by basketball activities like a slam dunk contest and a 3pt shooting contest. Others may have enjoyed all the skits and thought the scrimmage was just sloppy hoops, I don't know. Like rocketeli said, people like different things. After reading about our recruits for months and looking forward to seeing if Allen and Kennard are even better and seeing Amile back on the court, I might try to go again this year but I'll admit that my expectations are different.

flyingdutchdevil
08-29-2016, 09:19 AM
Pros:
-First true sighting of the Duke team in person
-Hyper active Duke kids (especially freshman) who get to kick off basketball with this event (referring to fans, not players)
-It's in Cameron
-It's fun

Cons:
-It's a show and entertainment, not basketball
-You get to hear DBR debate the effectiveness of x player or the minutes for y player
-One player will play out of his mind, leading DBR to anoint said player a starting position of plenty of minutes

Would I go?
In a heartbeat. It's Duke basketball, and I'm obsessed

hallcity
08-29-2016, 10:15 AM
Hi!

I am thinking about making the trip to Cameron for Countdown to Craziness. I am looking for info on the pros and cons of attending, what goes on outside Cameron before and after the fun inside (maybe even the day before) and anything that will help make my decision easier.

Thanks in advance.

If it were me and I could only make one trip, I'd wait for a real game, even an exhibition game. I think you'll have a better experience in many ways.

Furniture
08-29-2016, 11:34 PM
If it were me and I could only make one trip, I'd wait for a real game, even an exhibition game. I think you'll have a better experience in many ways.

I have been to CDTC and while I liked flyingdutchdevil's pro and con comments above I tend to agree with Hallcity and take in an exhibition game. Probably just as easy to get tickets too. On the other hand I did like the Indian music and dancing so if you are into things like that from all around the university you might like it and that's the sort of thing you will see on the Cameron floor before the introduction of the players and the scrummage.

DevilFalcon
09-30-2016, 05:54 PM
So I'm going on GoDuke to get CTC tickets, and it look like you now have to buy a package including football and women's basketball tickets. It wasn't this way last year. Am I missing something about just getting CTC tickets?

Thank you in advance for any helpful info.

6th Man
09-30-2016, 06:52 PM
I've heard through others that the tickets for Countdown to Craziness for non Iron Dukes will go on sale at 8:30 on Monday 10/5. I'd check back then. You should be able to purchase them as single tickets and not part of a package on 10/5.

PSurprise
09-30-2016, 08:18 PM
Shouldn't this thread be Countdown to Countdown 2 Craziness (C2C2C)?
:cool:

ok I'll leave now. Sorry, it's Friday night

Newton_14
09-30-2016, 11:25 PM
So I'm going on GoDuke to get CTC tickets, and it look like you now have to buy a package including football and women's basketball tickets. It wasn't this way last year. Am I missing something about just getting CTC tickets?

Thank you in advance for any helpful info.

When I ordered mine they were singles and not packaged with the other events. I imagine you will have the option of just CTC or combo with the other events once they go on sale to the public.

Good luck!

cbarry
10-19-2016, 09:05 PM
From GoDuke.com... the schedule for C2C... Very important for people like me who want to miss all of the extra stuff and only want to see basketball!

Countdown to Craziness presented by Delta Air Lines Schedule of Events (subject to change)
6 p.m. – Doors open for students
6:15 p.m. – Doors open for general public
7:55 p.m. – National anthem
8 p.m. – Introduction of the 2016-17 Blue Devils
8:25 p.m. – Blue-White Scrimmage

whereinthehellami
10-20-2016, 08:26 AM
Didn't GoDuke, with paid subscription, televise the event last year? I haven't seen any mention of them doing it this year. I would be interested if they did, for the scrimmage portion and introductions. Excited for the season!

JohnJ
10-20-2016, 08:34 AM
It is showing up on the ACC Network on WatchESPN for me.

Nrrrrvous
10-21-2016, 10:10 AM
It is showing up on the ACC Network on WatchESPN for me.

Me too. Does anyone know if this is a "live only" thing or will it be in replay later?

ChillinDuke
10-21-2016, 10:29 AM
Me too. Does anyone know if this is a "live only" thing or will it be in replay later?

I'm not positive. I think typically it's live on ESPN3 first. Then I think ESPN usually has a replay available shortly after the conclusion.

But also, GoDuke will almost assuredly have a replay regardless of ESPN's replay. So (1) live = ESPN3 and (2) replay = GoDuke and possibly ESPN.

Again, not positive.

- Chillin

mgtr
10-21-2016, 10:49 AM
Bear with me folks, I haven't really used ESPN3 or Watchespn before, because the preseason events were on Blue Devil Network, and all the other games were available from Directv. Apparently that is no longer true, because ESPN3 will cover CTC and I guess the two preliminary games. So, I guess I can use my computer to see CTC over ESPN3. But, when I checked the ESPN3 schedule, which is by sport, there is no listing for basketball or CTC. So, I am confused. Help!

Troublemaker
10-21-2016, 10:55 AM
Bear with me folks, I haven't really used ESPN3 or Watchespn before, because the preseason events were on Blue Devil Network, and all the other games were available from Directv. Apparently that is no longer true, because ESPN3 will cover CTC and I guess the two preliminary games. So, I guess I can use my computer to see CTC over ESPN3. But, when I checked the ESPN3 schedule, which is by sport, there is no listing for basketball or CTC. So, I am confused. Help!

You should see it listed as the second event at this link: http://www.espn.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/basketball/startDate/20161022/

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2016, 10:58 AM
You should see it listed as the second event at this link: http://www.espn.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/basketball/startDate/20161022/

7:50? Stupid wedding I have to attend...

Best to have a wedding during CTC or an exhibition, I guess.

Sidenote: I have a friend from Duke b-school who had her wedding during Duke-UNC. Yeah - you heard that right. Duke-UNC. SMH...

mgtr
10-21-2016, 10:59 AM
You should see it listed as the second event at this link: http://www.espn.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/basketball/startDate/20161022/

Got it! Thank you very much, I do want to watch.

BD80
10-21-2016, 11:02 AM
7:50? Stupid wedding I have to attend...

I don't understand the problem.

You have headphones?

You have a smartphone that can stream the game?

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2016, 11:09 AM
I don't understand the problem.

You have headphones?

You have a smartphone that can stream the game?

Wife's murderous stare provides more discomfort than CTC provides happiness.

BD80
10-21-2016, 11:16 AM
Wife's murderous stare provides more discomfort than CTC provides happiness.

Slippery slope. I have found that winning has become far less enjoyable than losing is painful.

You need to take a stand and enjoy CTC, damn the consequences!

Unless the reception is open bar and your prospects for the evening are good ... then the hell with CTC. Priorities!

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2016, 11:20 AM
Slippery slope. I have found that winning has become far less enjoyable than losing is painful.

You need to take a stand and enjoy CTC, damn the consequences!

Unless the reception is open bar and your prospects for the evening are good ... then the hell with CTC. Priorities!

I don't think I've ever been to a reception where it isn't open bar. As far as prospects go, that bodes well for me. It's a Duke wedding in Durham. Lots of basketball fans. Couple that with seeing my fraternity brothers, and I think I have my answer. Thank you BD80!

BD80
10-21-2016, 11:22 AM
I don't think I've ever been to a reception where it isn't open bar. As far as prospects go, that bodes well for me. It's a Duke wedding in Durham. Lots of basketball fans. Couple that with seeing my fraternity brothers, and I think I have my answer. Thank you BD80!

As long as your favorable prospects aren't with your frat bros.

Sláinte!

BLPOG
10-21-2016, 11:29 AM
I don't think I've ever been to a reception where it isn't open bar. As far as prospects go, that bodes well for me. It's a Duke wedding in Durham. Lots of basketball fans. Couple that with seeing my fraternity brothers, and I think I have my answer. Thank you BD80!

I've actually been to fraternity brother's wedding without an open bar at the reception. Most of his college guests were other fraternity brothers. We found out only shortly before the reception. I have a slight suspicion that the reason for no open bar might have been to restrain our collective enthusiasm.

Those efforts were in vain.

MarkD83
10-21-2016, 05:26 PM
..and have someone stream the wedding to your phone :)

Olympic Fan
10-21-2016, 10:39 PM
I'm pumped up to see how they divide the teams for the scrimmage ...

I see a lot of logical splits:

Jefferson-Bolden
Jeter-DeLaurier
Kennard-Allen
Jones-Jackson
Tatum? Jack White?

Doesn't look like Obi or Giles will play.

How do you see the fairest split? I( figure that how ever they divide, we get some small changes at halftime.

Newton_14
10-21-2016, 10:51 PM
I'm pumped up to see how they divide the teams for the scrimmage ...

I see a lot of logical splits:

Jefferson-Bolden
Jeter-DeLaurier
Kennard-Allen
Jones-Jackson
Tatum? Jack White?

Doesn't look like Obi or Giles will play.

How do you see the fairest split? I( figure that how ever they divide, we get some small changes at halftime.
I think Jeter and Bolden will be on opposite teams. If K splits them evenly vs putting the "starting line up as of 10/22" against the "subs as of 10/22" then I would think something like this:
Bolden-Jeter
DeLaurier-Amile
Tatum-White
Kennard-Jackson
Jones-Allen
Robinson-Vrank (subs)

Troublemaker
10-22-2016, 09:01 AM
I think Jeter and Bolden will be on opposite teams. If K splits them evenly vs putting the "starting line up as of 10/22" against the "subs as of 10/22" then I would think something like this:

There have been some CTCs where he's done both. Use one "half" for "starters vs subs" and the second "half" for even teams.

My attempt at even teams:




Grayson
Frank



Luke
Jack



Matt
Jayson



Javin
Amile



Chase
Marques

duke74
10-22-2016, 12:25 PM
I have found that winning has become far less enjoyable than losing is painful.

Daniel Bernoulli lives! Marginal increase in pleasure once you have it all (i.e., wealth) is less valuable than avoiding potential losses! :D

slower
10-22-2016, 12:58 PM
Daniel Bernoulli lives! Marginal increase in pleasure once you have it all (i.e., wealth) is less valuable than avoiding potential losses! :D

A must-spork comment, if I've ever seen one!

Newton_14
10-22-2016, 01:18 PM
Hey all, does anyone know if they will allow small posters to be brought in tonight? My daughter made one but not sure they will allow her to bring it inside? Anyone know the policy? Thanks in advance!

BD80
10-22-2016, 01:26 PM
Hey all, does anyone know if they will allow small posters to be brought in tonight? My daughter made one but not sure they will allow her to bring it inside? Anyone know the policy? Thanks in advance!

She will be arrested if the poster suggests that Mike O'Koren is "All ACC Ugly"

It certainly cannot be made from a used pizza box.

It cannot have car keys, ladies' unmentionables, or contraceptives attached.

Ah, the good ol' days.

devildeac
10-22-2016, 01:54 PM
Hey all, does anyone know if they will allow small posters to be brought in tonight? My daughter made one but not sure they will allow her to bring it inside? Anyone know the policy? Thanks in advance!

As long as it fits in her 5x7 inch clutch/purse, or is brought in as part of the contents of an official Duke stores bag. With the proper receipt, of course. :rolleyes:

duke74
10-22-2016, 01:55 PM
A must-spork comment, if I've ever seen one!

Thanks, comes with teaching Enterprise Risk Management at the university level.

If it interests you, read Bernstein's "Against the Gods." Great discussion of the evolution of probability theory, regression to the mean, law of large numbers, etc. - all leading to modern day risk management theories (although it ended at 1996). Assigned it to my "kids" this semester to give them the perspective of history of thought in the area.

slower
10-22-2016, 03:12 PM
Thanks, comes with teaching Enterprise Risk Management at the university level.

If it interests you, read Bernstein's "Against the Gods." Great discussion of the evolution of probability theory, regression to the mean, law of large numbers, etc. - all leading to modern day risk management theories (although it ended at 1996). Assigned it to my "kids" this semester to give them the perspective of history of thought in the area.

Is it available as a book on tape/CD? Gotta multi-task!

Furniture
10-22-2016, 07:50 PM
Ok. Let's go Duke. I have ACC network going through my Roku and Sling tv subscription!

Newton_14
10-22-2016, 07:52 PM
The old girl is electric tonight! A definite buzz in the air!!

duke4ever19
10-22-2016, 07:54 PM
Does the mascot have a new head? The eyes look different. Actually looks a little like Coach K (haha)

WiJoe
10-22-2016, 07:58 PM
All I'm getting is a frozen picture.

Anybody else?

Newton_14
10-22-2016, 07:58 PM
Not new. They changed to that style a few years back...hey you get your tickets yet?

Furniture
10-22-2016, 08:06 PM
The Oak!!

Furniture
10-22-2016, 08:07 PM
All I'm getting is a frozen picture.

Anybody else?

Nope

Troublemaker
10-22-2016, 08:08 PM
Justise Winslow ‏@IAmJustise (https://twitter.com/IAmJustise) 50m50 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/IAmJustise/status/789968708944982017)
Countdown... To... Craziness...


Tyus Jones ‏@Tyusjones06 (https://twitter.com/Tyusjones06) 16m16 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Tyusjones06/status/789977507898413057)
CTC... Let's go Duke!

ipatent
10-22-2016, 08:19 PM
Frank Jackson wins the dance contest.

Native
10-22-2016, 08:21 PM
Frank Jackson wins the dance contest.

I agree, but Chase wins Best in Show.

SCMatt33
10-22-2016, 08:23 PM
I agree, but Chase wins Best in Show.

Special shout out to Harry. The fact that he did something resembling a dance has to be a good sign in general.

Furniture
10-22-2016, 08:24 PM
I agree, but Chase wins Best in Show.

Chase can flip water bottles...that could come in handy.

Frank has got the moves...

Native
10-22-2016, 08:42 PM
Man, this team could really be special.

Troublemaker
10-22-2016, 08:53 PM
It would be an upset if Blue wins.

The White team is 4 experienced guys + the best freshman in Tatum.

The Blue team is Grayson + the other 4 frosh.

Bluedevil114
10-22-2016, 08:53 PM
Jack White is a 3-machine.

Troublemaker
10-22-2016, 09:06 PM
Grayson also has Matt hounding him everywhere he goes and has been held to 3 points so far. White team is up 33-21. (I'm not complaining, btw. Game is uncompetitive but still awesome.)


Adam Rowe ‏@BlueDevilLair (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair) 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/789994609883643904)
Cameron Crazies chanting "@wendellcarter34 (https://twitter.com/wendellcarter34), sit with us!" He's headed over now.

OldPhiKap
10-22-2016, 09:14 PM
Matt Jones is in Grayson's shorts. For those in the season who ask why Matt is getting more minutes than you have plotted, this is why. Sick D.

Billy Dat
10-22-2016, 09:17 PM
Can anyone there comment on the Kennard ankle tweak?

duke4ever19
10-22-2016, 09:17 PM
Sweet baby Jesus. That was scary. My heart skipped a beat when Amile went down.

SCMatt33
10-22-2016, 09:21 PM
Sweet baby Jesus. That was scary. My heart skipped a beat when Amile went down.

That was the most Grayson play ever. I mean, there's really no reason to dive for a ball on an outlet pass like that in any game, let alone a scrimmage. There is zero chance of actually getting a turnover, and you don't gain that much knocking it out of bounds as it wasn't like a fast break. Sometimes there's good reckless Grayson, but that was bad reckless Grayson.

Native
10-22-2016, 09:22 PM
Can anyone there comment on the Kennard ankle tweak?

A buddy of mine is still an undergrad — says Kennard is standing unsupported over on the bench. Probably not crazy serious.

Troublemaker
10-22-2016, 09:28 PM
Blue Devil Nation ‏@BlueDevilNation (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/790001183716937734)
We got next


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cval402WYAAZjnF.jpg

Troublemaker
10-22-2016, 09:30 PM
In case anyone's wondering, that's all 6 of the recruits sitting with the Crazies.

'17 Coleman, Carter Jr, Trent Jr

'18 Williamson, Tre Jones, Reddish

gurufrisbee
10-22-2016, 09:32 PM
I'm thinking if I am potential recruit I loved seeing that. Good stuff from so many guys - and you know at least half of them will still be there next year, too.

OldPhiKap
10-22-2016, 09:33 PM
Blue Devil Nation ‏@BlueDevilNation (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/790001183716937734)
We got next


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cval402WYAAZjnF.jpg

Bro on left needs a closed shirt or a bra. Just sayin'

ipatent
10-22-2016, 09:39 PM
Anyone see a box score yet?

dragoneye776
10-22-2016, 09:42 PM
GoDuke should have some official ones soon, but they always keep live stats

http://www.goduke.com/liveStats/v2/basketball/index.dbml?GAME_STAT_ID=2895366&db_oem_id=4200

devilnfla
10-22-2016, 09:55 PM
Did anyone else think the shorts, especially Grayson's looked a little shorter than normal? More like the 1980's style.

ipatent
10-22-2016, 10:01 PM
Tatum must have scored early, I tuned in a few minutes late and his totals surprised me.

indy1duke
10-22-2016, 10:05 PM
Could someone post their analysis of today's scrimmage. I am outside the country without the bandwidth to see the action.

Furniture
10-22-2016, 10:08 PM
Tatum must have scored early, I tuned in a few minutes late and his totals surprised me.

I had not expected it and maybe I should have but I think he was the most impressive player of the night! It was just so easy for him and it just made me wonder how good we will be with Harry Giles!

diablesseblu
10-22-2016, 10:13 PM
What a pleasure to watch...and Harry Giles wasn't even on the floor. It's going to be a fun year. (And, that Frank Jackson can dance!)

On another note, I was blown away by the technology in the player introductions. Have long thought that Duke BB is way ahead of the curve in using social media, training of players re: media exposure and in developing special platforms, e.g. Duke Blue Planet. Tonight's event shows they're continuing to push the envelope.

Have always thought that the support staff for the team is really strong top to bottom across all of their respective responsibilities. Am grateful for the ACC Extra coverage and being able to watch tonight festivities.

rocketeli
10-22-2016, 10:20 PM
It was just an early scrimmage, but these were my thoughts
Tatum was player who stood out the most. great offensive gifts, athletic
Jefferson was Jefferson (which is a good thing)
Bolden looked lost or out of condition early on, but became more solid as the scrimmage went on and put in some workmanlike if unspectacular work around the basket
Allen had little assistance on offense and therefore Matt Jones could concentrate on him so he was somewhat frustrated. Made an unnecessary and risky play which ended up with him clipping Jefferson
Kennard shooting, shooting (in a good way)
Jeter like last year, lacking a certain something
Jackson active,talented but didn't do much to move the offense on his side
Jones the steady veteran who knows the system. If only he had any ability or talent for point guard
White not terrible--big question can he dunk? if so he can be this years caucasian bench rider that some DBR posters can obsess about playing time, possible transfer, why the coaching staff is so dumb etc.
Others--Robinson hit a nice three
Since it is just a scrimmage at the beginning of the season there wasn't as much polished offense or great communication etc. Team does have plenty of talented members

fuse
10-22-2016, 10:31 PM
Enjoyed the scrimmage. Miss the days when Duke played 2 halves and mixed the teams up.

Price and content wise, I'm starting to move past Countdown unless Duke figures out a way to inject some variety and new life into the pregame programming, or offers more basketball- either longer scrimmages, add the dunk contest back and a 3 point contest, something.

Expecting a fun year and will be glad to put Grayson in front of other teams so he can take it out on players other than his team mates.

Kedsy
10-22-2016, 10:43 PM
Could someone post their analysis of today's scrimmage. I am outside the country without the bandwidth to see the action.

I saw it on TV, rather than live, but here are my thoughts:

-- Matt's D was tremendous. If he can bottle up and frustrate Grayson like that, he can guard pretty much any perimeter player in college today.

-- Marques looked pretty good, but he didn't look like a one-and-done player to me.

-- Frank has the athleticism, the skills, and the handle to be an outstanding lead guard, but he doesn't quite have the court vision he needs to lead an offense at this level. I expect he'll get there, but he's not there yet.

-- Jayson can sure score the ball, but I'll be interested to see how well he and Grayson can co-exist on offense (if you didn't watch, Jayson and Grayson were on different teams tonight).

-- Chase looked sharp on offense, much better and more confident than last year, but he won't be able to stay on the floor if he fouls as much as he did tonight.

-- The best passer on the floor was Amile. He also hit an 18-foot jumper and looked comfortable doing it.

-- Jack White hit 2 for 2 on three-pointers, and looked confident taking them. He also guarded Jayson, and while he certainly didn't stop Jayson, he didn't look totally overmatched, either.

-- Grayson's crazy foul on Amile at the end was pretty scary. Assuming Amile's OK, I think we dodged a bullet on that one.

-- Javin can jump, but he needs a fair amount of work before he's ready to play a big role. Not surprisingly, his foul rate was pretty high, too.

-- Luke still doesn't square his body on his three-point shots, but he showed confidence and they went in.

-- Antonio hit a 15-footer without hesitation; Justin hit a three. Neither will play much once the season starts, but it was fun to see.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-22-2016, 10:43 PM
FYI - available on ESPN replay

duke4ever19
10-22-2016, 10:46 PM
Enjoyed the scrimmage. Miss the days when Duke played 2 halves and mixed the teams up.

Price and content wise, I'm starting to move past Countdown unless Duke figures out a way to inject some variety and new life into the pregame programming, or offers more basketball- either longer scrimmages, add the dunk contest back and a 3 point contest, something.

Expecting a fun year and will be glad to put Grayson in front of other teams so he can take it out on players other than his team mates.

Both Grayson and Matt were complaining about each other to the refs throughout the scrimmage. It was amusing to watch.

weezie
10-22-2016, 10:51 PM
Both Grayson and Matt were complaining about each other to the refs throughout the scrimmage. It was amusing to watch.

We even practice politely relentless griping! No wonder we're so good.

gep
10-22-2016, 10:53 PM
That was the most Grayson play ever. I mean, there's really no reason to dive for a ball on an outlet pass like that in any game, let alone a scrimmage. There is zero chance of actually getting a turnover, and you don't gain that much knocking it out of bounds as it wasn't like a fast break. Sometimes there's good reckless Grayson, but that was bad reckless Grayson.

With all due respect... when Matt hit a ball out-of-bounds while on defense... commentator(s?) said that it was a good play... play stops and lets your defense set up. And while it wasn't a real fast break, the ball was moving rather quickly down the court... Besides... that's what started the move against Wisconsin.

But saying that... I screamed "NOOOO" when that happened. GOOD THING nothing (apparently) came of it.


Tatum must have scored early, I tuned in a few minutes late and his totals surprised me.

Reminded me a lot of Brandon Ingram. :cool:

hallcity
10-22-2016, 10:54 PM
You'll never guess who was unimpressed (https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/just-watched-duke-scrimmage-wooooow.214633/) with Duke tonight.

weezie
10-22-2016, 10:58 PM
^^^ haha, I'll bet the "spy" was really excited to be infiltrating enemy territory in order to burnish his message board status. Probably furiously thumb typing away with his mouth hanging slightly open from the suspense of it all.
Let's all go over to his lair and give him a few wildcat poops or whatever they reward each other with. Or not.

SCMatt33
10-22-2016, 11:15 PM
With all due respect... when Matt hit a ball out-of-bounds while on defense... commentator(s?) said that it was a good play... play stops and lets your defense set up. And while it wasn't a real fast break, the ball was moving rather quickly down the court... Besides... that's what started the move against Wisconsin.

First, diving on the floor is not the same as launching yourself a few feet above it. Second, he's not chasing a ball shoulder to shoulder with a guy, he's diving towards a player receiving a pass. Now there was never actually a clear view of Amile on the play as he was out of frame until the last second live and the second angle was following only Grayson making it tough to tell how far Amile came back to the ball, but that was a very dangerous play imo, and much different than going to the ground or lunging to tip a ball then diving into the stands afterwards due to momentum, which are plays that happen all the time. Grayson has an ultra competitive nature, which is his both his biggest asset and his biggest weakness at times.

Newton_14
10-22-2016, 11:28 PM
You'll never guess who was unimpressed (https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/just-watched-duke-scrimmage-wooooow.214633/) with Duke tonight.

Meh... I have always been in the camp that you can't really learn anything about where a team is collectively in the Blue/White scrimmage. Tonight was not any different. None of the combinations of the blue team will see the floor together this season other than early season blowouts of over matched opponents for instance. You can learn a little bit in the two exhibition games, but mainly only if you are learning they are not going to be great. I will never forget texting Kedsy from the first exhibition game of 2014 in a panic because the reigning D2 Champs shred our defense like hot butter (they actually led at the half) for instance.

Tonight was really fun. There was a ton of buzz/electricity/atmosphere in Cameron, even during the skits/events prior to the players coming out. Player introductions were really cool and electic as well.

Tatum continues to impress with his scoring ability. The kid can play. I am anxious to see him on the same team with Grayson in a real game to see how they mesh and coexist. Two very dynamic scorers. Grayson earned every single point tonight because Matt Jones were in his shorts the entire night. I will cut Grayson some slack on the play with Amile. He was simply trying to hustle and make a play. He was immediately terrified when he saw Amile down in pain. Scared to death. As was I and everyone else in the building. Seeing Milly get up and shake it off was a sight to behold! So thankful!

Kennard looked really good, especially knocking down shots. I am convinced his shooting percentages will go way up this season from last. Frank looked strong and athletic, good defender, and ball handler. Our backcourt is just sick with talent. I don't care that none of them are pure points guards. They all can play, and each of them have their own unique skillset and identity. We will have to see in that first tough game but I still believe we will overcome the lack of a true PG just fine. Not worried at all at this point.

None of the bigs sans Amile had great nights, but none were terrible either and each had a few nice moments. I am also perfectly fine if we post Amile up when we want points in the paint because I have high confidence he can get it done. That aside, this is not a team you look at and wonder where the points will come from.

All in all a good night and inline with what I saw in the two practices. A very strong team. If Giles ends up being his normal self when he comes back it becomes a very very strong team.

And you can rest assured we will see a line up of Amile, Tatum, Jones, Allen, Kennard, for more than token minutes.. especially early on...

gurufrisbee
10-22-2016, 11:31 PM
I watched it on the computer:

* Tatum looks very good offensively. I remember all the talk of how ready offensively Jah was coming in as a freshman. In a totally different style and skill set, Tatum looks the same level of ready.
* Jackson showed some offensive potential - for scoring. Wish I had seen a little more passing but Grayson was doing most of the more traditional point guard mentality for the blue team.
* Jeter looked frustratingly like he did last year - a big bodied foul machine.
* Grayson annoyed me tonight. Half the time he looked like he was trying to be Tyus and half the time he was trying to be Buddy Hield. The few moments he actually played his game, he was good.
* White, Vrank, Robinson, and even DeLaurier all had a moment or two that was fun. None will be significant this year, but those moments show a lot of promise of this team's depth and future down the road.
* This board has unreal hard on for Matt Jones to the point where you literally get infractions for suggesting he does anything less than walk on water, so we'll move on.
* I love Kennard's shooting. I know he had some bad games last year, but I really see him and think he's got JJ potential for shooting. I feel like we're going to have some games where he just goes off and shoots the opponent out of contention in a few minutes.
* I think Bolden holds a lot of promise. He started slow but by the end he showed a couple of really nice moves. He's no Jah, but it won't surprise me at all if by the end of the season he is playing every bit as good as any other center in the ACC (which was pretty much true about Plumlee last year - also quietly).
* My MVP for tonight was definitely Amile. Yes, the emotional lift just from seeing him on the court for Duke again was huge, but he absolutely picked up where he left off (and I remain 100% convinced with him last year we're a #1 seed). He absolutely does everything - scores in the post, hits jumpers, passes, handles the ball, rebounds, blocks shots - all of it. I'm guessing the Karl Malone award goes to Ivan Rabb, Kris Jenkins, Nigel Hayes, or Caleb Swanigan but I don't believe any of them contribute any more than Amile does.
* And Harry Giles seemed to be moving pretty well. Definitely much better than any Duke opponents wanted to see.

I really would love to see how the offense works with Grayson and Tatum together. I think their games compliment each other a lot. Especially with Kennard's shooting creating more space out there and Amile's ability to move the ball as a big man. All in all, it was a very positive night and very exciting for what this season could be.

gep
10-22-2016, 11:47 PM
First, diving on the floor is not the same as launching yourself a few feet above it. Second, he's not chasing a ball shoulder to shoulder with a guy, he's diving towards a player receiving a pass. Now there was never actually a clear view of Amile on the play as he was out of frame until the last second live and the second angle was following only Grayson making it tough to tell how far Amile came back to the ball, but that was a very dangerous play imo, and much different than going to the ground or lunging to tip a ball then diving into the stands afterwards due to momentum, which are plays that happen all the time. Grayson has an ultra competitive nature, which is his both his biggest asset and his biggest weakness at times.

Thanks for your comment... I agree with you. But Grayson "has to be" Grayson... otherwise, he's not "Grayson"... :cool: Hopefully he can pick his spots this year, and make really great plays. GO DUKE!!!

COYS
10-22-2016, 11:51 PM
My quick rundown.

Starting lineups:
Blue: Grayson, Frank J, Jack, Javin, Marques
White: Matt, Luke, Jayson, Amile, Chase

When I saw the starting lineups with four veterans including our two seniors, I thought that White should win. That guess was vindicated on the court. Defensively they were sound, didn't miss assignments, contested shots, and everything else you'd expect of experienced players. As others mentioned, Matt hounded and frustrated Grayson, who just didn't have much help on the offensive or defensive end. The ONLY note on defense is that Frank was able to get by the perimeter defense a few times on drives. I think that lineup will be susceptible to quick guards.

Offensively, the White team just had too many weapons. Luke was shooting well. Matt had some nice spot up threes. Amile did a lot of ball handling from the wing and the high post (which helped with spacing) and made some nice passes and scored a few buckets. Chase got in on the action off of some alley oops.

Jayson was just on fire. He hit fadeaways. He drove and scored. He had a nice move on a post up. He got to the line. And he even showed some decent passing ability, even if he is clearly wired to shoot. I feel like there will be a few times this year when he misses a long two early in the shot clock and we scream at the TV. Then there will be times when we need a bucket, our offense isn't working, Jayson is being double teamed and yet he somehow manages to nail an impossible shot with the pressure on. His ability to hit difficult shots is a blessing and a curse, but it also means that when he's on, he's going to be unguardable.

On to the Blue Team. I'm not the least bit worried about Grayson's rough night. He still had 10 points in one half of basketball. He also had some nice drive and kicks. He clearly wanted to get others involved and attempted some other nice passes that his teammates weren't completely ready for. Frank flashed his quickness and potential, for sure. He doesn't seem ready to be the second option on offense or a full time point guard, yet, but he will score in bunches. The rest of the Blue Team looked overwhelmed for the most part, although Marques grew into the game. I expected Frank to bother Matt/Luke on the defensive end, but Matt simply used his size to shield the ball from him and then passed it off to someone else once he got close enough to the three point line. The White Team basically bypassed Frank on defense for the most part, which left an inexperienced team exposed. They were all just a step slow on their rotations, left shooters open on the perimeter, and fouled a lot. Marques showed more than Javin and Jack (who actually played really well), but they have a lot of room to grow. Javin is a smooth athlete who was simply outmuscled and out-positioned by bigger, more experienced players. Jack looked good to me. He hit some nice threes and even had some decent looking defensive stands against Jayson despite Jayson hitting some shots against him. There's too much depth to expect him to play much, but he looks like he belongs.

My biggest takeaway from the game are that we are not nearly as reliant on freshman as we might appear. It's obvious that Jayson can be fantastic and that Frank offers a lot in an area that is perhaps a weakness for this team, but Matt, Amile, and Grayson will still be the heart and soul of the team. If we are going to reach our full potential, we need our freshman to play well, including Harry when he gets healthy. However, our quartet of veterans are really good in their own right.

The battle for the center spot is intense, as Marques offers a lot, but Chase showed that when he is surrounded by a talented lineup, he can be a sneaky fifth option on offense and do some of the dirty work.

Finally, I am even less certain what the starting lineup will look like now than I was before the game. Grayson has to start, but who sits from the White Team that started tonight? And what happens when Harry gets healthy? I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

Also, it was nice to see Justin Robinson get in the game and play well. I hold out hope that he'll make the rotation before his career is said and done.

Furniture
10-22-2016, 11:55 PM
Thanks for your comment... I agree with you. But Grayson "has to be" Grayson... otherwise, he's not "Grayson"... :cool: Hopefully he can pick his spots this year, and make really great plays. GO DUKE!!!

He definitely was Grayson. IMHO He was pissed that his team was losing and his frustration was getting the better of him and it showed in that play and in a couple of other things he did. I hope he learns to have a little patience.

duke4ever19
10-23-2016, 01:24 AM
He definitely was Grayson. IMHO He was pissed that his team was losing and his frustration was getting the better of him and it showed in that play and in a couple of other things he did. I hope he learns to have a little patience.

Coach K actually held a short press conference after the game and addressed that play and agrees with you that Grayson was playing frustrated that his team was down. As for the Amile and Grayson play, K seemed to know Amile was fine and didn't chastise Grayson, or even call it a questionable decision, for diving for the ball the way he did. I recoiled in horror and said a few unholy things, so K's response was a nice change of perspective :)

Edouble
10-23-2016, 01:47 AM
Bro on left needs a closed shirt or a bra. Just sayin'

He looks jacked. Not sure what you're talking about. Looks like he's got chest muscles and sub-10% bodyfat.

Edouble
10-23-2016, 01:56 AM
It was just an early scrimmage, but these were my thoughts
Tatum was player who stood out the most. great offensive gifts, athletic
Jefferson was Jefferson (which is a good thing)
Bolden looked lost or out of condition early on, but became more solid as the scrimmage went on and put in some workmanlike if unspectacular work around the basket
Allen had little assistance on offense and therefore Matt Jones could concentrate on him so he was somewhat frustrated. Made an unnecessary and risky play which ended up with him clipping Jefferson
Kennard shooting, shooting (in a good way)
Jeter like last year, lacking a certain something
Jackson active,talented but didn't do much to move the offense on his side
Jones the steady veteran who knows the system. If only he had any ability or talent for point guard
White not terrible--big question can he dunk? if so he can be this years caucasian bench rider that some DBR posters can obsess about playing time, possible transfer, why the coaching staff is so dumb etc.
Others--Robinson hit a nice three
Since it is just a scrimmage at the beginning of the season there wasn't as much polished offense or great communication etc. Team does have plenty of talented members

Semi Ojeleye, Michael Gbinije, Elliot Williams, Quinn Cook, Sean Obi, Nolan Smith, Michael Thompson, et al say hello.

Olympic Fan
10-23-2016, 01:59 AM
Just a few comments:

Grayson actually had four assists (and four turnovers) in the scrimmage
Amile had five assists and three turnovers.
Matt had four assists and NO turnovers.

I know this will infuriate the anti-Matt brigade, but I thought he was the most effective player on the floor tonight -- he hit his spot up 3's (2-for-2), he rebounded well (he and Tatum led the Whites with four rebounds each), he was the best playmaker (4/0), he only committed one foul, he had a steal ... and he defended Grayson to frustration.

Jefferson played very well and his presence was important, but he didn't have as many rebounds as Jones, he did have three turnovers and three fouls and he was just 3-for-6 from the foul line.

I think Tatum could make a case for the game's outstanding player -- he was the leading scorer with 18 points (a solid 6-of-11 from the floor) -- plus he filled out the stat sheet with four rebounds, two assists (and two turnovers) a block and a steal).

After the game, K talked about Harry Giles' recovery and said that it's faster that expected. He's happy about it. Harry's happy about it. But he refused to set a timetable for his return.

Best play of the night was the fast break lob from Matt to Jayson for the dunk ... it looked a little like Hurley to Hill in the early moments of the '91 title game.

First of four straight Friday nights in Cameron -- Virginia State next week in the first exhibition; Augustana a week later in the second exhibition; then Marist Nov. 11 in the real opener.

Bob Green
10-23-2016, 06:29 AM
* This board has unreal hard on for Matt Jones to the point where you literally get infractions for suggesting he does anything less than walk on water, so we'll move on.

Your statement is literally not true!

oakvillebluedevil
10-23-2016, 07:23 AM
Good to be talking about actual Duke basketball with you folks again - offseason felt particularly long this time around

Few thoughts:

- I was more encouraged with Frank's performance at the point than I think most were on the board. Is he a Tyus-level passer? no. But he made a lot of the smart, simple passes, and made them quickly. There were a few plays where he hit Grayson in perfect timing coming off screens, and he showed a real willingness and ability to get the ball to Bolden in the post. I'm happy starting the season with a hyper athletic guard who's quick enough to defend other 1s, has deep range, a fairly tight handle, and at first glance seems willing to make the simple, seemingly boring point guard passes. That's a pretty great foundation to build on

- I love Matt off the ball on offense and on the ball on defense. I hope a PG earns the coaching staff's trust so that Matt can move back to the wing/floor spacer role on offense. He's so savvy spacing the floor and making cuts off the ball. And watching him guard Grayson was great - he's just tough

- I hope our offense is able to put Jayson in spots to use his skills efficiently. The kid is obviously dripping with talent. I don't think, though, that the off the dribble fadeaway 16-20 footers are a recipe for success in high volume. If we can get him going to the rim more, and then get him open catch and shoot opportunities, hopefully we can take advantage of his skills without sacrificing team efficiency. A challenge any coach in America would love to have

- Great to see Luke nail shots confidently and without hesitation. I still firmly believe he'll go down as one of the Duke greats before it's all said and done. Is that particularly rational? no. But man I love his game

Devilwin
10-23-2016, 07:26 AM
Matt was totally sick last night on defense. Didn't give Grayson time or room to breathe. Tatum as good as advertised. Bolden was a bit tentative, but he will get there (remember, he was playing against his teammates, who know his every move). Jackson is a baller, great moves, but not the point guard we need.
All in all, was happy with what I saw. And imagine how good we will be with Giles back.
No wonder those UK fans are bent!
My thoughts on the season see a team that loses no more than three games, and competes for the ACC and NCAA titles.

MChambers
10-23-2016, 09:12 AM
- I hope our offense is able to put Jayson in spots to use his skills efficiently. The kid is obviously dripping with talent. I don't think, though, that the off the dribble fadeaway 16-20 footers are a recipe for success in high volume. If we can get him going to the rim more, and then get him open catch and shoot opportunities, hopefully we can take advantage of his skills without sacrificing team efficiency. A challenge any coach in America would love to have

- Great to see Luke nail shots confidently and without hesitation. I still firmly believe he'll go down as one of the Duke greats before it's all said and done. Is that particularly rational? no. But man I love his game

I thought Spatola's comments about Tatum were very accurate. Tatum took and made some unnecessarily difficult shots early on and looked unstoppable, but Spatola pointed out that he was making his attempts more difficult than they needed to be, and that he needs to work on getting open without the ball. Tatum then proceeded to miss many of the same shots. Tatum's got a world of talent, and if he's not an athletic freak, he's close enough, but he needs to learn a lot to be an efficient scorer.

Luke looked really good. Didn't get the ball all that much, but did good things with it when he did.

kmspeaks
10-23-2016, 10:27 AM
It would be an upset if Blue wins.

The White team is 4 experienced guys + the best freshman in Tatum.

The Blue team is Grayson + the other 4 frosh.

I, for one, love that K did this. He gave Grayson the challenge of leading the "subs" (I know we've discussed this ad nauseam in the offseason but dang are we spoiled to have a team of subs that includes Jackson and Bolden) against the "starters" and it looked to me like Grayson was trying hard to get others involved. Obviously he's not Tyus but might Grayson try to imitate him a little bit this season in the sense of getting others involved in the beginning and then taking over if necessary to win the game at the end?


Did anyone else think the shorts, especially Grayson's looked a little shorter than normal? More like the 1980's style.

Grayson's shorts looked like they got shrunk in the dryer, they were tight as well as short, but everyone else's looked slightly shorter as well.

Indoor66
10-23-2016, 10:44 AM
Grayson wore less baggy shorts last year as well.

jimsumner
10-23-2016, 11:34 AM
I, for one, love that K did this. He gave Grayson the challenge of leading the "subs" (I know we've discussed this ad nauseam in the offseason but dang are we spoiled to have a team of subs that includes Jackson and Bolden) .

This occurred to me last night. When I saw the teams, I thought that the Blue team was overmatched and that turned out to be the case. But that overmatched Blue team included three players who are almost certain to be first-round draft picks sometime in the next two seasons.

That's how much talent Duke has. And that's without Harry Giles. I would note that Giles was moving around without even the tiniest hint of a limp or any kind of discomfort. It's going to take some time for him to shake off the rust but if he's really better than Tatum . . . . well, you can fill in the rest.

rsvman
10-23-2016, 12:08 PM
Grayson wore less baggy shorts last year as well.

Makes it easier for the refs to see when he trips someone......j/k. Can't believe I went there! :cool:





Word on the street is that the length of the shorts is going to be decreasing steadily over the next few years. The really long, really baggy shorts are apparently now passe. Time will tell.


Jealous of anybody who got to see CTC in person. Glad to see so many potential recruits in the audience. I hope they had a great time.

rocketeli
10-23-2016, 12:10 PM
Semi Ojeleye, Michael Gbinije, Elliot Williams, Quinn Cook, Sean Obi, Nolan Smith, Michael Thompson, et al say hello.

Fair enough. Let the obsession with playing time begin regardless of race, creed, color, sex, age, national origin, orientation or gender identity!

nmduke2001
10-23-2016, 01:20 PM
Just watched the replay. I bet the scrimmages at practice are even more competitive. This was the first time in Cameron with a crowd, I'm sure the nerves got the best of some of them.

I'm convinced that Grayson is actively trying to be more hated. Why else would he wear short, tight shorts and make them even shorter by folding over the elastic band?

If Tatum really is 6'-8", it would be fun to see a line-up of Jackson, Grayson, Kennard, Tatum and Jefferson. Sort of our version of the Golden State Warriors.

Furniture
10-23-2016, 01:20 PM
I have no actual proof but it seems to me that in general the kids that have transferred out have done worse vs staying at Duke with not a lot of playing time. Gbinije was one notable exception.

jimsumner
10-23-2016, 02:22 PM
I have no actual proof but it seems to me that in general the kids that have transferred out have done worse vs staying at Duke with not a lot of playing time. Gbinije was one notable exception.

A list of players who transferred from Duke and received more playing time at their new school than they likely would have received had they stayed at Duke would include

Greg Wendt
Bill Jackman
Billy McCaffrey
Crawford Palmer
Christian Ast
Joey Beard
Andre Sweet
Michael Thompson
Eric Boateng
Jamal Boykin
Elliott Wlliams
Olek Czyz
Michael Gbinijie


Exceptions to that rule
Mike Chappell
Taylor King

Jury still out
Semi Ojeleye
Alex Murphy
Derryck Thornton

Special case
Rasheed Sulamion

Am I leaving out anyone?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-23-2016, 03:21 PM
I have no actual proof but it seems to me that in general the kids that have transferred out have done worse vs staying at Duke with not a lot of playing time. Gbinije was one notable exception.

I have no basis for my statement either, but it seems to me that when a Duke player transfers, his minutes in a Duke uniform decrease significantly.

killerleft
10-23-2016, 03:38 PM
I have no basis for my statement either, but it seems to me that when a Duke player transfers, his minutes in a Duke uniform decrease significantly.

And only one has scored worth a darn for at least 12 months thereafter. Strange!

arnie
10-23-2016, 04:52 PM
A list of players who transferred from Duke and received more playing time at their new school than they likely would have received had they stayed at Duke would include

Greg Wendt
Bill Jackman
Billy McCaffrey
Crawford Palmer
Christian Ast
Joey Beard
Andre Sweet
Michael Thompson
Eric Boateng
Jamal Boykin
Elliott Wlliams
Olek Czyz
Michael Gbinijie


Exceptions to that rule
Mike Chappell
Taylor King

Jury still out
Semi Ojeleye
Alex Murphy
Derryck Thornton

Special case
Rasheed Sulamion

Am I leaving out anyone?

What happened to Joe Cook - late 80's. Did he transfer or just leave the team?

OldPhiKap
10-23-2016, 04:59 PM
A list of players who transferred from Duke and received more playing time at their new school than they likely would have received had they stayed at Duke would include

Greg Wendt
Bill Jackman
Billy McCaffrey
Crawford Palmer
Christian Ast
Joey Beard
Andre Sweet
Michael Thompson
Eric Boateng
Jamal Boykin
Elliott Wlliams
Olek Czyz
Michael Gbinijie


Exceptions to that rule
Mike Chappell
Taylor King

Jury still out
Semi Ojeleye
Alex Murphy
Derryck Thornton

Special case
Rasheed Sulamion

Am I leaving out anyone?

I might move Elliot Williams to the "special case" category too, although I am sure you know more about the situation than I do.

Andre Sweet also had academic issues IIRC, his transfer may not have been all minutes-related.

jimsumner
10-23-2016, 06:01 PM
What happened to Joe Cook - late 80's. Did he transfer or just leave the team?

Flunked out.

As did Tony Moore a few years later.

arnie
10-23-2016, 06:15 PM
Flunked out.

As did Tony Moore a few years later.

Thanks. Tony flunking out as a senior really sad as he was finally gonna play a lot.

jimsumner
10-23-2016, 06:38 PM
I might move Elliot Williams to the "special case" category too, although I am sure you know more about the situation than I do.

Andre Sweet also had academic issues IIRC, his transfer may not have been all minutes-related.

K suspended Sweet indefinitely for less-than-stellar-academic performance. But he was still technically eligible. Still, probably a rational decision by him. He went back home and had a good career at Seton Hall, playing major minutes for an NCAA Tournament team, which ironically lost to Duke in the 2004 tournament. Sweet played 30 minutes in that game--7 points, 5 assists. He was never going to play 30 minutes for Duke in an NCAA Tournament game.

Nor was it likely that Elliott Williams would ever had averaged 18 points per game for Duke, not sharing minutes and touches with Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer.

Then again, he wouldn't have played in the 2010 NIT either, had he stuck around.

My list was intended to address an earlier comment that most of the players who transferred from Duke did not enhance their PT not to suggest that they all had the same reasons for transferring. Playing time, academics, family illnesses, even home sickness are variables. But most of these guys made a decision that they thought was in their best academic/athletic interests and I've never seen any reason to disparage them for it. And it worked out for a large number of them.

BD80
10-23-2016, 06:41 PM
I have no actual proof but it seems to me that in general the kids that have transferred out have done worse vs staying at Duke with not a lot of playing time. Gbinije was one notable exception.

Well, he ended up with the Pistons: room for argument either way.

ipatent
10-23-2016, 06:42 PM
Am I leaving out anyone?

Chris Burgess, who would have settled down and done just fine had he stayed, IMHO. Maybe even hit some free throws.

jimsumner
10-23-2016, 06:46 PM
Chris Burgess, who would have settled down and done just fine had he stayed, IMHO. Maybe even hit some free throws.

Ah, Chris Burgess. I knew I left out someone.

Mucho thanks.

Burgess actually had some success at Utah despite some serious injuries, bad back, bad foot. He averaged 13 and 7 as a senior before suffering a season-ending injury.

Would he have had the same setbacks at Duke? If not, would he have played ahead of Carlos Boozer? Alongside him? Would he have replaced Boozer in 2001 when Boozer broke a foot? Would his extra depth carried Duke much deeper in the 2000 NCAAs?

unexpected
10-24-2016, 07:29 AM
To quibble, I don't think Michael Thompson ever played for NU before his heart condition was discovered and he retired from the game; but I do agree that he would have probably played more at NU than at Duke.

With regards to Elliot Williams, he would have been a key member of the rotation if he had stayed. He went from being a starter to being the star.

Boateng received negligible minutes at Arizona state up until his senior year (5th year of basketball). After he transferred, Wikipedia says he average 1.6, 8.2, and then 27.1 minutes. He actually received less playing time his first year eligible at AZ State than he did his freshman year at Duke.

whereinthehellami
10-24-2016, 08:49 AM
I thought Spatola did a good job announcing and had some insightful comments; Bolden needs to play with more of a motor, can Tatum be a more efficient scorer, and how the offense will look clunky at times without a true PG.

Allen took some really bad, ill-advised shots, that were not close to going in. And I was hoping for more maturity, body language still looks like an issue. While his ball handling looked decent, his passing was questionable.

I love Bolden's size, legit. He really bothered people around the rim, Kennard learned his lesson(s). I love his potential as the fifth starter who clogs the lane, protects the rim, and collects garbage on offense. That is really all that he needs to do this year.

Jeter is just not a natural looking player to me. He has issues with his hands, balance, and timing.

Jackson had some nice strong drives. Kid is strong and explosive. What will his role be and will he embrace it?

I think that is the big question after looking at the team and all the talent they have. There is a lot of talent and big personalities. How will that come together? Will it come together and form a dominating machine or will it remain a collection of really talented players.

KY seems like a team designed to give Duke fits with their quick guards and athletic bigs.

jimsumner
10-24-2016, 11:41 AM
To quibble, I don't think Michael Thompson ever played for NU before his heart condition was discovered and he retired from the game; but I do agree that he would have probably played more at NU than at Duke.

With regards to Elliot Williams, he would have been a key member of the rotation if he had stayed. He went from being a starter to being the star.

Boateng received negligible minutes at Arizona state up until his senior year (5th year of basketball). After he transferred, Wikipedia says he average 1.6, 8.2, and then 27.1 minutes. He actually received less playing time his first year eligible at AZ State than he did his freshman year at Duke.

Thompson played 13 games for Northwestern in the spring of the 2005 season, averaging 10 points and five rebounds per game in 28 minutes per game. He played five times more minutes in that one semester at Northwestern than he did in three semesters at Duke.

Thompson played five minutes the following season before being diagnosed with a heart ailment that ended his playing career.

As noted, Eric Boateng averaged 27 minutes per game as a senior at ASU, where he averaged 8.8 points and 7.2 rebounds per game, shooting 66.5% from the field. I would have been surprised to see him ever reach those thresholds at Duke, although he would have come in handy during those years when Brian Zoubek couldn't stay healthy and Duke kept sending out Kyle Singler or Lance Thomas at the 5.

BTW, I believe the Wiki entry on Boateng has a typo, unless we want to believe that he averaged 3.9 points and 2.6 rebounds per game in 1.6 minutes per game in 2008, in which case Herb Sendek may have under-utilized him.

gocanes0506
10-24-2016, 03:55 PM
Sorry for the late response:

I'm not in the Matt hate or bandwagon club. I do take his awesome D with a grain of salt. When you play with someone for 2+ years, you learn their tendencies. We'll see how Matt does against new opponents.

Tatum looked good, I worry about his shot late in the game. The fade away takes a lot of legs to be consistently accurate. His legs will wear down in college because he'll have to play good D.

Of course all observations don't matter

GGLC
10-24-2016, 03:59 PM
Sorry for the late response:

I'm not in the Matt hate or bandwagon club. I do take his awesome D with a grain of salt. When you play with someone for 2+ years, you learn their tendencies. We'll see how Matt does against new opponents.

Tatum looked good, I worry about his shot late in the game. The fade away takes a lot of legs to be consistently accurate. His legs will wear down in college because he'll have to play good D.

Of course all observations don't matter

New opponents like Sam Dekker in the national championship game? ;)

budwom
10-24-2016, 04:14 PM
Ah, Chris Burgess. I knew I left out someone.

Mucho thanks.

Burgess actually had some success at Utah despite some serious injuries, bad back, bad foot. He averaged 13 and 7 as a senior before suffering a season-ending injury.

Would he have had the same setbacks at Duke? If not, would he have played ahead of Carlos Boozer? Alongside him? Would he have replaced Boozer in 2001 when Boozer broke a foot? Would his extra depth carried Duke much deeper in the 2000 NCAAs?

In one of the more interesting and prescient exchanges between a recruit and a recruiting service that I can recall (not that I can recall much), Elton Brand was asked whether he was worried about available playing time what
with Chris Burgess also being committed to Duke.....Elton said Chris Burgess was the one who needed to be worried.

jimsumner
10-24-2016, 06:31 PM
In one of the more interesting and prescient exchanges between a recruit and a recruiting service that I can recall (not that I can recall much), Elton Brand was asked whether he was worried about available playing time what
with Chris Burgess also being committed to Duke....Elton said Chris Burgess was the one who needed to be worried.

That reminds me of a story that Wes Chesson once told me. Chesson was a quarterback in high school, a pretty good one. Now, as you recall, Tom Harp was one of these guys who was of the opinion that most high-school teams played their best athlete at quarterback, so he recruited as many QBs as he could, with the expectation that most of them would end up helping somewhere else.

So, one day, after Chesson had committed to Duke, he gets a call from Harp, who informs him that Leo Hart had just committed to Duke.

Chesson responded to Harp, "Good. I'll have somebody to throw to."

Funny how that worked out.

Olympic Fan
10-24-2016, 06:52 PM
That reminds me of a story that Wes Chesson once told me. Chesson was a quarterback in high school, a pretty good one. Now, as you recall, Tom Harp was one of these guys who was of the opinion that most high-school teams played their best athlete at quarterback, so he recruited as many QBs as he could, with the expectation that most of them would end up helping somewhere else.

So, one day, after Chesson had committed to Duke, he gets a call from Harp, who informs him that Leo Hart had just committed to Duke.

Chesson responded to Harp, "Good. I'll have somebody to throw to."

Funny how that worked out.

Actually, both Hart and Chesson were afterthoughts in that recruiting class.

The real prize was Brad Evans, who was the most highly rated quarterback IN THE COUNTRY that season. Evans was recruited by Bear Bryant at Alabama, Woody Hayes at Ohio State and a young Joe Paterno at Penn State. He was a two-sport All-American -- the Ron Curry or Greg Paulus of his era.

The expectation was the Evans would become Duke's quarterback ... only he opted to play basketball for Bubas instead. After three years on the hardwood, he finally switched to football (and played wide receiver)..

jimsumner
10-24-2016, 07:08 PM
Actually, both Hart and Chesson were afterthoughts in that recruiting class.

The real prize was Brad Evans, who was the most highly rated quarterback IN THE COUNTRY that season. Evans was recruited by Bear Bryant at Alabama, Woody Hayes at Ohio State and a young Joe Paterno at Penn State. He was a two-sport All-American -- the Ron Curry or Greg Paulus of his era.

The expectation was the Evans would become Duke's quarterback ... only he opted to play basketball for Bubas instead. After three years on the hardwood, he finally switched to football (and played wide receiver)..

As you know, lots of folks thought he projected better as a safety than as a quarterback. UCLA was one of the schools recruiting him to play on defense.

And he was a local, a Durham kid. His father was a long-time Durham policeman, IIRC. He and classmate Randy Denton--from Raleigh--were the first high-profile North Carolinians successfully recruited by Vic Bubas.