Seth Greenberg - "Coaches want K to admit USA Basketball has helped Duke"

[Billy Dat]

As we pivot from Olympic basketball to the start of the school year, I can begin to sniff the coming season.

What better way to keep priming the pump then some Seth Greenberg pot stirring, in this case with him acting as the messenger.

On the ESPNU College Basketball podcast, Greenberg praises K to the hilt about the job he has done with USA Basketball, but expresses a feeling he says is felt by many around college basketball that when people ask if his USA Basketball experience gives Duke an advantage, he always talks about his own personal development but never talks about a recruiting advantage. He goes on to list the ways it provides a recruiting advantage:

-power over who makes junior USA basketball teams, and the ability to promise access to that now coveted experience
-the above allowing unrivaled ability to create player packages
-the ability to drop anecdotes about the pros
-the testimonials from the pros about K himself

There is a strong desire for K to admit this advantage, "people would be happy if he'd just admit it!" My goodness.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2689788
(it is the 8/24/16 episode)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Uncle Fester's take...Recruit---"I want to play for the guy that won the Olympics, three times in a row. I've never heard of him before, but sign me up."

My take...Recruit---"I want to play for the guy that earned the right to coach the Olympic team three times in a row and win. I've watched him win a few NCAA championships, too, which is more relevant and important to me. He must be really good at what he does. "

[OldPhiKap]

I'm on the bubble about Seth's comments. Which somehow feels natural.

[allenmurray]

Clearly Seth wasn't held enough as a child. He loves attention as much as Roy Williams loves coke

[mattman91]

Sure it is an advantage. An advantage he has earned.

Any coach can put themselves in the same position to be chosen for the job. It must be earned.

[tbyers11]

As we pivot from Olympic basketball to the start of the school year, I can begin to sniff the coming season.

What better way to keep priming the pump then some Seth Greenberg pot stirring, in this case with him acting as the messenger.

On the ESPNU College Basketball podcast, Greenberg praises K to the hilt about the job he has done with USA Basketball, but expresses a feeling he says is felt by many around college basketball that when people ask if his USA Basketball experience gives Duke an advantage, he always talks about his own personal development but never talks about a recruiting advantage. He goes on to list the ways it provides a recruiting advantage:

-power over who makes junior USA basketball teams, and the ability to promise access to that now coveted experience
-the above allowing unrivaled ability to create player packages
-the ability to drop anecdotes about the pros
-the testimonials from the pros about K himself

There is a strong desire for K to admit this advantage, "people would be happy if he'd just admit it!" My goodness.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2689788
(it is the 8/24/16 episode)

Here is the most logical response to Greenberg and the haters that express these arguments, particularly the first two points. If this is really such an advantage why don't the actual junior (U17, U18) coaches benefit from it just as much? Is he complaining about Sean Miller, Billy Donovan, Shaka Smart, Mark Turgeon, etc. in the same manner?

I also find it extremely hard to believe that Coach K has more power over who makes the junior teams than the actual coaches of the junior teams themselves. If Coach K (who isn't at the tryouts) overrules Shaka Smart so that Player X makes the junior team (to give Duke a supposed advantage) wouldn't we hear about this from Coach Smart?

[juise]

I'm on the bubble about Seth's comments. Which somehow feels natural.

Also a recruiting advantage: making the NCAA tournament.

[ice-9]

The biggest counterpoint is that Coach K has had many top recruiting classes even before he was the Olympic coach.

So, while coaching the Olympics might have helped, it certainly wasn't necessary.

And Duke haters need to acknowledge that, had the Olympic teams lost, this would've hurt not helped.

[weezie]

Show of hands: does anyone care one whit about anything that exits Seth's mouth? Or Arthur Chanskyssbutt's? Or Dougie Gott-none's?

Same old, same old. Yawn.

[devildeac]

I'm on the bubble about Seth's comments. Which somehow feels natural.



https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXe6SkuEH4al8V4OmN5nW_INsCQH7iV CNzSz86ftCPrBXMEC79qA

[Avvocato]

It is an advantage ... now. At first, most thought it would be a distraction, especially during summer recruiting. Back in 2005, the National Team was a mess. We were embarrassed in the 2002 Worlds and 2004 Olympics. The idea Colangelo had was to develop an actual National program, with continuity of coaches and players committed to playing (as opposed to throwing players together weeks before the tournament). Sort of the opposite of the 2016 team. Nobody was discussing any advantage by Duke then, especially when the U.S. took bronze at the 2006 Worlds. And during this time, Duke wasn't roping in elite recruits. Sure we secured talented recruits, but nothing that made anyone jealous. Also during this time, Duke was losing in the second round/sweet sixteen. There was discussion of time passed K by. UNC was recruiting at an elite level and winning/challenging for titles more regularly.

But K got the U.S. Team rolling. They learned from 2006, and haven't looked back since (even winning the 2010 and 2014 Worlds when we were not the clear favorites going in with our very young NBA talent - which most forget in retrospect). However, Duke was still having 2nd round/sweet sixteen exits. What helped change perception a bit for Duke was Duke's surprise 2010 title run (without one and done players) and with Kyrie's commitment. At this time, Cal was dominating the elite recruits. Again, no one was questioning K's advantage at this time.

It wasn't until the 2014 recruiting class of one and dones that led Duke to the 2015 title, when K started beating Cal at his own game, when everyone started calling foul on K. That's almost a decade after he took over the National post. At this point, having added 2 recent titles, gold medals and all of the NBA stories, he had developed the situation into his advantage. But he earned it by this point. Not to mention that if K had lost any of these Olympic golds, or NBA players discussed how much they hated playing for K, etc., then it would have had he opposite reaction. But K made it an advantage. But back in 2005, certainly not.

Everyone seems to forget what the national program was like back in 2005 and that K had no advantage back then. I certainly think now he does, because he did a great job. The fact that people are crying now, well, ok. Too bad and deal with it. If you want K to acknowledge any advantage, those that want it should at least acknowledge the whole story with some perspective. No one seems to want to discuss the other parts though.

And this part about nefariously picking junior teams and turning that to his advantage is a joke. I'm ignoring that nonsense.

Additionally, I love watching the (senior) U.S. in these international competitions, and I'm grateful that K helped make these priorities for the top NBA players again and restored pride in these teams.

In any case, whether K acknowledges any advantage or not for Duke, I will anxiously await another great recruiting class and can't wait for this season. I certainly won't be holding my breath waiting for the haters to acknowledge the whole story.

[CDu]

Wait, so we have heard over and over on this board that Coach K's role on the Olympic Team has helped him at Duke. Yet when someone in the media says as much, we blast it?

OF COURSE it has given Coach K an advantage. He is visible working with the very best players in the world. And we have shown a Renaissance in recruiting since he took the 2008 team to gold.

I was unsure at first, because there are only so many hours in the day. But it has pretty clearly been an advantage. And that is okay. It isn't an unfair advantage. And as I mentioned, the advantage came with risk: it took him away from his regular job and there was a chance it might not work out.

It is an advantage because Coach K worked hard to make it an advantage. No reason to mock Greenberg for speaking the truth.

[royalblue]

Did the Olympic experience help Larry Brown years ago or was it just the cheating in college he did?
K won 3 national titles before and 2 after coaching Team USA
if he can win 2 more I will gladly give in that it was an advantage :)

[MarkD83]

So we admit that this is a recruiting advantage, just like going to final fours and winning championships or bringing NBA scouts to practices or pop celebrities.......

As long as the advantage is not an outright violation of rules who cares. I mean Coach K is NOT marketing a school where you don't have to go to class and get rental cars and mouth guard endorsements....

[dukelifer]

Wait, so we have heard over and over on this board that Coach K's role on the Olympic Team has helped him at Duke. Yet when someone in the media says as much, we blast it?

OF COURSE it has given Coach K an advantage. He is visible working with the very best players in the world. And we have shown a Renaissance in recruiting since he took the 2008 team to gold.

I was unsure at first, because there are only so many hours in the day. But it has pretty clearly been an advantage. And that is okay. It isn't an unfair advantage. And as I mentioned, the advantage came with risk: it took him away from his regular job and there was a chance it might not work out.

It is an advantage because Coach K worked hard to make it an advantage. No reason to mock Greenberg for speaking the truth.
The biggest advantage is that it help to rejuvenate K and the experience has made him a better coach. The NBA players love K because he focuses on team building, patriotism and motivation rather than X's and O's with these guys. I am not sure how many college coaches could have forged that connection with these players. Let's face it- K is good at coaching. That is his advantage in recruiting and it is not going to fade.

[TruBlu]

Also a recruiting advantage: making the NCAA tournament.

That is a mean spirited dig at Seth . . . and is much appreciated.:)

[OldPhiKap]

Advantage: recruiting

Disadvantage: away from team, divides attention

Overarching thing: it helps if you win, it hurts if you don't.


My conclusion: it's an advantage because K worked hard to make it so.

[Billy Dat]

Here is the most logical response to Greenberg and the haters that express these arguments, particularly the first two points. If this is really such an advantage why don't the actual junior (U17, U18) coaches benefit from it just as much? Is he complaining about Sean Miller, Billy Donovan, Shaka Smart, Mark Turgeon, etc. in the same manner?

I also find it extremely hard to believe that Coach K has more power over who makes the junior teams than the actual coaches of the junior teams themselves. If Coach K (who isn't at the tryouts) overrules Shaka Smart so that Player X makes the junior team (to give Duke a supposed advantage) wouldn't we hear about this from Coach Smart?

Greenberg does mention those other coaches as having an advantage. And, it may be too fine a point but it's the reason I started the thread...

We know K gets an advantage, an earned advantage, no one is disputing it. The new news to me was this idea that a good percentage of coaches resent that he won't publically admit that it gives him an advantage. That when it is brought up, he won't just say, "Yes, I have an advantage". Which, to me, is further proof that the dude can't win.

What advantage is there in him admitting he got an advantage? If he did so earlier, maybe public pressure to have him removed starts up. Who knows. He's smart to stay quiet on this one.

[Edouble]

If I had to choose between Coach K having coached the Olympics and Coach K having brought in Jeff Capel, I'd take Capel in a heartbeat. IMO, he's the biggest factor in our recent recruiting success.

[plimnko]

can someone PLEASE give seth greenberg another dead horse to beat?

[richardjackson199]

Coach K hasn't violated any rules and doesn't owe rival coaches or Seth Greenberg any explanation or acknowledgment. All the success K has had being outstanding at his jobs has been quite transparent and speaks for itself.

[Troublemaker]

Greenberg does mention those other coaches as having an advantage. And, it may be too fine a point but it's the reason I started the thread...

We know K gets an advantage, an earned advantage, no one is disputing it. The new news to me was this idea that a good percentage of coaches resent that he won't publicly admit that it gives him an advantage. That when it is brought up, he won't just say, "Yes, I have an advantage". Which, to me, is further proof that the dude can't win.

I don't know that we have to cede even that much to Greenberg here. Coach K has acknowledged the "earned advantage" in the past, or the way he phrased it, "advantage through accomplishment." (http://www.sbnation.com/2014/9/18/6394389/coach-k-mike-krzyzewski-team-usa-basketball) So, it's inaccurate to say that Coach doesn't admit to an advantage. He will just point out that if USA had lost to Spain in 2008, Colangelo probably would've fired him (because that would've been a bronze and a silver in two competitions). For it to become an advantage, you have to win and you have to have a personality that NBA players want to play for. (Coach K is apparently this amazing dude behind the scenes, and the players love him.)

I also strongly suspect Greenberg shouldn't be speaking for other coaches here. I think Greenberg feels this way about Coach K, not the majority of coaches.

[gurufrisbee]

I'd like Greenberg to find a list of all the players who have to Duke and said "Well I was going to go to _____, but since Coach K is the Olympics coach, I instead went to Duke."

I'm waiting....

[sagegrouse]

Well, Seth Greenberg is entitled to his opinion, and he has to produce commentary on a regular basis. What else would he talk about in August?

Coach K was asked to come in and build Team USA, working with his boss, Jerry Colangelo. He talked the best players into playing. IIRC, he created a 25-player national team and a 25-player developmental squad, so that there would be continuity and also familiarity between the players. It was successful, and he remained coach of Team USA for ten years.

Now we'll see how the Team USA structure holds together with someone else in charge. I personally suspect that what K did was harder than it looked.

Did it help Duke? Maybe, but not by the record. From 2007 to 2016, Duke won three ACC championships, reached two FF's and won two national championships. From 1997 to 2006, Duke won six ACC championships, reached two FF's and won one national championship. From 1987 to 1996 Duke won two ACC championships, reached six FF's, and won two national championships. Looks like we've been good for a long time, with and without having the Olympics coach on our bench.

[allenmurray]

can someone PLEASE give seth greenberg another dead horse to beat?

FIFY

Can someone please beat Seth Greenberg with a dead horse?

[bob blue devil]

of course it is a recruiting advantage, but, in the hierarchy of recruiting advantages, it's not particularly high. why don't people complain about the unfair recruiting advantage coach k has from duke's amazing facilities, elite academic reputation, and beautiful campus? or the advantage he gets from having coached so many players who have gone on to be extremely accomplished basketball players, professionals in other careers, and outstanding members of society?

[slower]

can someone PLEASE give seth greenberg another dead horse to beat?

I think it would be better just to beat him WITH a dead horse. Oops, allenmurray beat me to it. Great minds, etc. :p

[SilkyJ]

Uncle Fester's take...Recruit---"I want to play for the guy that won the Olympics, three times in a row. I've never heard of him before, but sign me up."

My take...Recruit---"I want to play for the guy that earned the right to coach the Olympic team three times in a row and win. I've watched him win a few NCAA championships, too, which is more relevant and important to me. He must be really good at what he does. "

My take is simple: Coach K was getting top rated recruits and top ranked recruiting classes long before he was ever coaching the Olympic team. DECADES before. He did it for 20 straight years before he was the USA coach. He went to 5 straight final fours and won back to back titles 15-20 years before he was ever the national coach! One has nothing to do with the other.

The look at the recruiting resume for Coach K in the 10-12 years (not two or 3, we're talking a decade here) leading up to 2005 when he took the job or 2008 when he coached his first Olympic game. In fact, look at the run Coach K has been on since the dawn of online recruiting rankings. The RSCI only goes back to 1998, but in '97 Battier, Brand, Burgess, and Avery were on the covers of magazines as the top class. That was 8 years before he was named the coach of the national team and 11 years before he ever coached in the olympics (as head coach). Look at the run he went on from '97 to '05 or '08

'97: 3 mickie Ds (Burgess, Brand, Battier--Avery was still a top recruit). Considered one of the best recruiting classes ever. (http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8628187/greatest-recruiting-classes)
'98: 1 Mickie D (Maggette)
'99: 4 Mickie Ds (JWill, Dun, Boozer, Sanders, + Horvath (who was stillMr Basketball in MN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Mr._Basketball)). Also considered one of the best classes ever. (http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8628187/greatest-recruiting-classes)
'00: 1 Mickie D (Duhon)
'01: 1 Mickie D (Ewing)
'02: 4 Mickie Ds, but really 5 with Shelden (Redick, Shav, Dock, Thompson, +Sheld (RSCI #8), and Lee)
'03: 1 Mickie D (Luol, consensus #2 recruit--literally ever service at Lebron #1, Deng #2 (https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2003-final))
'04: 1 Mickie D (Demarcus)
'05: 3 Mickie Ds (Paulus, Boateng, McBob--RSCI #1)

That's 19 Mickie Ds in the 9 years before he ever took the job. 4 of those years we got Mega-classes that would have been ranked 1/2. We went to 3 final fours and won a title during that time.

The nadd in the 3 more classes he recruited before he ever coached a game in the Olympics:

'06: 3 Mickie Ds (Hendo, Scheyer, Lance, +Zoubek, the foundation of the 2010 champsionship team)
'07: 3 Mickie Ds (Nolan, Singler, Taylor)
'08: 1 Mickie D (Elliot W...the '08 class was recruited before he ever coached a game in the Olympics.)


(bolded = big haul)

That's 7 more Mickie Ds, so 26 total Mickie Ds in 12 years leading up to being the Olympic coach. 6 of those classes had 3 or more Mickie Ds.

The man wins 3 titles, has the foundation for the 4th all recruited, went to 10 final fours, multiple top recruiting classes, and hauls in 2.2 Mickie Ds per year. That's his resume before he ever coaches a single game in the Olympics. And now you want to tell me you're surprised that its continuing to happen?! He does it for 20 years straight but now its the olympics that's the reason?! Stop it Seth Greenberg. This is click bait type stuff.

The Olympics may help Duke and Coach K, but its a really "sore loser" type of argument to make. Its like whining about the refs in a 40 point blowout--the refs might be sucking, but they aren't the reasons you're losing by 40.

Coach K was the best coach in college basketball before the olympics and he remains the best coach today. He was winning titles before the Olympics, he's won them since. He got top rated recruits before, he gets them after. Trying to pin Duke's success on the Olympics is misguided. Duke's success rests in one simple place: the greatest of all-time is at the helm.

[Devil2]

I sincerely doubt that USA basketball had been a decisive advantage. Losing Barnes seems to rekindled his recruiting as has Chapel's arrival. Also Coach k seems to have gone all in on OAD's which meant he was going after a lot more top 10's

[plimnko]

why hasn't boeheim been mentioned in the same vein? he's been there right beside k the whole time?

[SilkyJ]

why hasn't boeheim been mentioned in the same vein? he's been there right beside k the whole time?

He's just a lowly volunteer assistant. If UNC football has taught us anything its that volunteer coaches don't even work with the players :rolleyes:

[OldPhiKap]

When Seth says that "coaches talk about this," I think he means he and Dino Gaudio.

[Karl Beem]

Being Coach K has helped Coach K, as opposed to being, say, Seth Greenberg.

[Scorp4me]

Ah yes the ole "And I'm not the only one who feels this way". What coach hasn't heard that complaint before haha.

[Indoor66]

He's just a lowly volunteer assistant. If UNC football has taught us anything its that volunteer coaches don't even work with the players :rolleyes:

Especially if they are not fluent in Swahili. 😎

[ricks68]

Show of hands: does anyone care one whit about anything that exits Seth's mouth? Or Arthur Chanskyssbutt's? Or Dougie Gott-none's?

Same old, same old. Yawn.

Love those name derivatives, Weezie.:p

ricks

[rthomas]

It would be nuts to say that coaching the USA team has not helped Coach K. Period. But it is because he was willing to do it. And he has been very successful at it. As you would expect him to be. Does it help recruiting? I would hope so. So what? It also takes time and energy which every coach is not willing to expend, but Coach K did.

[dukejunkie]

It would be nuts to say that coaching the USA team has not helped Coach K. Period. But it is because he was willing to do it. And he has been very successful at it. As you would expect him to be. Does it help recruiting? I would hope so. So what? It also takes time and energy which every coach is not willing to expend, but Coach K did.

I think it has helped. However, Rick Pitino might not agree:

So if team USA asked you to be the next coach you wouldn't do it?

Well, Greg Poppovich is gonna be the next coach for Team USA. But if Italy came knocking and asked, I would not be interested. It takes you away from recruiting too much. It's something that I really wanted to do to learn the international game, and I enjoyed doing that, but it's not something I would do again.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

FIFY

Can someone please beat Seth Greenberg with a dead horse?

GOOD one, Allen!
Love, Ima

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Seth, Art, etc!! All the right noses are out of joint!
Love, Ima

[Steven43]

Greenberg does mention those other coaches as having an advantage. And, it may be too fine a point but it's the reason I started the thread...

We know K gets an advantage, an earned advantage, no one is disputing it. The new news to me was this idea that a good percentage of coaches resent that he won't publically admit that it gives him an advantage. That when it is brought up, he won't just say, "Yes, I have an advantage". Which, to me, is further proof that the dude can't win.

What advantage is there in him admitting he got an advantage? If he did so earlier, maybe public pressure to have him removed starts up. Who knows. He's smart to stay quiet on this one.
I honestly cannot believe this has come up as a topic of conversation or controversy. Why would even one NCAA coach give a darn whether or not Coach K acknowledges he has a recruiting advantage? What is this, kindergarten? Who CARES?! Why would a college basketball coach waste even ten seconds of his precious time with such meaningless nonsense?

I think Seth Greenberg is lying through his teeth when he claims there are a significant number of coaches who want Coach K to admit he has an advantage. Either somebody put Greenberg up to it or he has a personal axe to grind with Coach K and is desperately looking for any possible way to take a shot at him. This whole thing is the height of silliness and irresponsibility.

Team USA just finished winning an Olympic gold medal with a thrown-together group of players, many of whom would not have even made the team had all those Coach K truly wanted agreed to play. Coach K just completed another outstanding job as the head coach of Team USA and he has to deal with pathetic malcontents like Stephen Smith and Greenberg bringing up this garbage?

The idea that Coach K is somehow dodging the issue is simply not true. How is he supposed to honestly know whether or not his position as head coach of Team USA is an advantage in recruiting? There is no empirical evidence one way or the other. There simply are way too many variables that cannot be controlled for properly to answer the question with any legitimacy. It is 100% unprovable.

The only thing I can say on the matter is WHO CARES anyway? If Coach K were to say he feels he has an advantage would it tangibly affect even one recruiting outcome? Would the recruits who are high on Duke right now suddenly decide not to come to Duke? What exactly is the point of this seemingly pointless exercise by Smith and Greenberg? What do they hope will happen? This thing is so darn weird and I just don't get it.

[moonpie23]

sean dockery..... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxyO4AKMveY)



yeah, i said it....

[jipops]

Featherston once again squashing away the nonsense. Where was this "recruiting advantage" in 2008 and 2010? I guess it helped land Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston?

I agree K's recruiting riches have changed entirely when it became obvious to everyone that he had embraced the one-and-done. I would say this has been vastly more impactful on his ability to recruit in today's landscape than simply coaching USA basketball.

Before the one-and-done era really gained steam, K was already recruiting with the best of them (circa '97, '99, '02)

[amat1129]

Clearly Seth wasn't held enough as a child. He loves attention as much as Roy Williams loves coke

Roy snorts yay? I doubt it with how droopy he is.

[oldnavy]

Can you imagine the advantage K would have if Duke were to set up a sham major and fake classes to keep players eligible without having to do class work?

We may have gone undefeated over the past 18 years!

[dukelifer]

I honestly cannot believe this has come up as a topic of conversation or controversy. Why would even one NCAA coach give a darn whether or not Coach K acknowledges he has a recruiting advantage? What is this, kindergarten? Who CARES?! Why would a college basketball coach waste even ten seconds of his precious time with such meaningless nonsense?

I think Seth Greenberg is lying through his teeth when he claims there are a significant number of coaches who want Coach K to admit he has an advantage. Either somebody put Greenberg up to it or he has a personal axe to grind with Coach K and is desperately looking for any possible way to take a shot at him. This whole thing is the height of silliness and irresponsibility.

Team USA just finished winning an Olympic gold medal with a thrown-together group of players, many of whom would not have even made the team had all those Coach K truly wanted agreed to play. Coach K just completed another outstanding job as the head coach of Team USA and he has to deal with pathetic malcontents like Stephen Smith and Greenberg bringing up this garbage?

The idea that Coach K is somehow dodging the issue is simply not true. How is he supposed to honestly know whether or not his position as head coach of Team USA is an advantage in recruiting? There is no empirical evidence one way or the other. There simply are way too many variables that cannot be controlled for properly to answer the question with any legitimacy. It is 100% unprovable.

The only thing I can say on the matter is WHO CARES anyway? If Coach K were to say he feels he has an advantage would it tangibly affect even one recruiting outcome? Would the recruits who are high on Duke right now suddenly decide not to come to Duke? What exactly is the point of this seemingly pointless exercise by Smith and Greenberg? What do they hope will happen? This thing is so darn weird and I just don't get it.

Here is the list of current coaches that may care

Calipari
Williams
Pitino
Izzo
Self
Miller

Doesn't seem like a significant number

[richardjackson199]

Featherston once again squashing away the nonsense. Where was this "recruiting advantage" in 2008 and 2010? I guess it helped land Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston?

I agree K's recruiting riches have changed entirely when it became obvious to everyone that he had embraced the one-and-done. I would say this has been vastly more impactful on his ability to recruit in today's landscape than simply coaching USA basketball.

Before the one-and-done era really gained steam, K was already recruiting with the best of them (circa '97, '99, '02)

And this was underscored mightily when K won the 2015 Natty with 3 freshmen who then all got drafted in the first round. Our recruiting really took off (again) after that, because that is what many of these kids want. K won this Natty the year that Cal was supposed to with his undefeated superteam led by a player he lured while coaching the Dominican national team. Then Cal helps Woj write a hatchet piece on K for his recruiting advantage from coaching the national team. Oh the irony.

No, K winning 5 gold medals and being openly adored by NBA studs has not hurt. Or maybe in some cases it has. Maybe we lost Kenny Boynton to Florida in 2008 when K was busy with Team USA while Donovan recruited him away. Or maybe we lost Jermaine Samuels to Villanova because we offered him too late (basically the same weekend he was already going on his official to Nova). Maybe K, who supposedly really liked him, would have offered sooner if he hadn't been tied up with Capel in Rio for the last month during recruiting season. Or maybe Nova just winning a miracle championship with a great coach is why they landed this kid from the northeast. Maybe it was playing time. It's tough to prove - too many factors in play. Great piece by Feather, making arguments with facts.

Success breeds more success, as K said. Be jealous all you want haters, but for success you'll get no apologies.

And isn't it moot now that K is no longer Team USA's coach? (Sadly, I know it's never moot to hate on K. Enjoy it - it means he's doing something right.)

[DevilHorse]

FIFY

Can someone please beat Seth Greenberg with a dead horse?

I find this dead horse talk most distressing..

Larry
DevilHorse

[Rich]

Roy snorts yay? I doubt it with how droopy he is.

So that we can avoid unnecessary rumors or gossip, the person who commented was referring to Coca-Cola, not cocaine. It's well known that Roy loves Coke, the drink not the drug.

[OldPhiKap]

Not only is it an incredible advantage, K was able to manipulate Jerry Colangelo into practically begging K not to quit after 2012 so that K could grow the advantage even greater. K makes Walter White look like an amateur. K is in the empire business for sure.

[Pghdukie]

Here is the list of current coaches that may care

Calipari
Williams
Pitino
Izzo
Self
Miller

Doesn't seem like a significant number

I would add to this list EVERY coach that can NOT recruit top talent.

[Edouble]

I would add to this list EVERY coach that can NOT recruit top talent.

Well, Roy is already on the list.

[johnb]

i like Seth's commentary and am impressed that he has so many opinions. I find him fallible but entertaining.

of course it helps to successfully run Team USA.

of course it's helpful to be known as being in favor of 1+done while recruiting Jabari, Harry, etc.

lots of things are helpful, including Capel, a history of success, and luck.

for some reason(s), we're on a hot streak that will likely never be duplicated in the coming decades (at least at Duke). If people want to insinuate that we have lots of power while we also win, then I'm okay with opposing teams thinking we have somehow bought the refs and have a mysterious power over 17 year olds.

[johnb]

Okay, we've been on a hot streak for 30 years, but things have heated up recently.

Broad academic preparation may be another key factor. Many years ago, it seems that it was "common knowledge" that most top 50 recruits couldn't be recruited to Duke because they weren't academically prepared. Maybe that was simply wrong (as is true for much common knowledge), but it does seem that we are now looking seriously at most elite players. Obviously, some "aren't a good fit," which I'd guess often means academics, though it could also mean countless other things.

Anyway, I'd be curious if anyone has thoughts or data on whether a higher percentage of hs elite players are better prepared in the aftermath of stricter NCAA standards for academics that may have lifted all boats from the era where kids could matriculate at major state universities while being functionally illiterate.

[BD80]

So that we can avoid unnecessary rumors or gossip, the person who commented was referring to Coca-Cola, not cocaine. It's well known that Roy loves Coke, the drink not the drug.

Well, the positive assertion was correct. The negative isn't necessarily true - he was "leasing" (?) a house to a known drug user.

[TKG]

Featherston once again squashing away the nonsense

I look forward to the day when Featherston, Jacobs and even DBR writes a piece about K's success/career without mentioning coaches - former and current - from that institution in Chapel Hill. K's success is not relative, it is absolute. That success is neither enhanced nor diminished by comparison with others.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Okay, we've been on a hot streak for 30 years, but things have heated up recently.

Broad academic preparation may be another key factor. Many years ago, it seems that it was "common knowledge" that most top 50 recruits couldn't be recruited to Duke because they weren't academically prepared. Maybe that was simply wrong (as is true for much common knowledge), but it does seem that we are now looking seriously at most elite players. Obviously, some "aren't a good fit," which I'd guess often means academics, though it could also mean countless other things.

Anyway, I'd be curious if anyone has thoughts or data on whether a higher percentage of hs elite players are better prepared in the aftermath of stricter NCAA standards for academics that may have lifted all boats from the era where kids could matriculate at major state universities while being functionally illiterate.

I don't have an answer for you, but I would point out that you very rarely hear about a player on any team being deemed academically ineligible. It seemed to be a regular occurance in the 80's and 90's. Draw your own conclusions.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Okay, we've been on a hot streak for 30 years, but things have heated up recently.

Broad academic preparation may be another key factor. Many years ago, it seems that it was "common knowledge" that most top 50 recruits couldn't be recruited to Duke because they weren't academically prepared. Maybe that was simply wrong (as is true for much common knowledge), but it does seem that we are now looking seriously at most elite players. Obviously, some "aren't a good fit," which I'd guess often means academics, though it could also mean countless other things.

Anyway, I'd be curious if anyone has thoughts or data on whether a higher percentage of hs elite players are better prepared in the aftermath of stricter NCAA standards for academics that may have lifted all boats from the era where kids could matriculate at major state universities while being functionally illiterate.

K. has commented in the past that he feels the stricter standards have benefitted Duke's recruitment.
Love, Ima

[ipatent]

Here's one for Seth Greenberg..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuQ-dlhyfNc

[alteran]

I'm on the bubble about Seth's comments. Which somehow feels natural.

Zing!

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Here's one for Seth Greenberg..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuQ-dlhyfNc

After that game the king of paranoia (bless his heart) said he was afraid for his safety because some student had touched him on his way out.
Love, Ima

[OldPhiKap]

^^ every time someone watches a replay of that shot, an angel gets its wings.

True.

[flyingdutchdevil]

^^ every time someone watches a replay of that shot, an angel gets its wings.

True.

You're overestimating the number of angels in heaven...

[flyingdutchdevil]

1. I really like Seth Greenberg. I find that he's more often than not on Duke's side, and always compliments Coach K and Duke on a really solid team. He has a ton of respect for Duke; anyone with half a brain can realize that. Yes, he's opinionated and will say things that some fan bases don't like. And I'm completely fine with that. But I'd rather have an insightful commentator with DI coaching experience than a) a hyper-active nonsense commentator ("Yeah baby! This is Kansas-Kansas State, but how 'bout them Blue Devils, baby!", b) a commentator who everyone likes because of catch-phrases ('rise and fire!'), c) a commentator with another agenda ('the NCAA needs to make this sport more friendly towards students who want to make a few extra dollars by working over the summers', or d) a commentator who enjoys hearing himself talk (the infamous, "they are alarmingly unathletic').

2. It's been said before, but does anyone think that Duke didn't get at least some sort of advantage from USA Basketball? I agree that asking Coach K to admit the advantage is superfluous and out of the scope of a coach's responsibility, but I really think Seth did it because he wants to put this issue to bed rather than outing Coach K.

3. The question for me is whether Team USA is an unfair advantage, which I don't think Seth Greenberg said. To me, it isn't. Now, if Bill Self and John Calipari were in the same position and had won 60+ games for Team USA and coached 3 straight Olympics, would I think they would have an unfair recruiting advantage? Probably.

4. Team USA is indeed an advantage, but I don't think it's the #1 cause for our baller recruiting. I attribute that to Mr. Jeff Capel, the next coach at Duke. My rationale is as follows: 2012 and 2016 were great Olympic achievements, but neither comes even close to the exposure that Team USA got in 2008. In 2008, Team USA needed to prove themselves. The world was watching closely, reading to pounce on Coach K if he failed or praise him if he won. And praise him they did. I don't think Coach K was loved moreso than after those Olympics. That picture with all those gold medals really helped Coach K. But the year after, Coach K secured a recruiting class of Andre Dawkins, Mason Plumlee, and Ryan Kelly, hardly a class that is considered "Game Changing" (really good players, especially Plumlee, but not anything out of the ordinary for Duke). The next year, Coach K secured his first true OAD, Kyrie Irving. But he was the only game changer, as Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston had zero - or little - NBA potential. The next year, Coach K had an interesting class in Rivers, Gbinije, Cook, Murphy, and Plumlee. In that list, there is only 1 top 25 player (RSCI). And the next year, the class of 2012, Duke had Sulaimon and Jefferson, both outside the top 10. But starting in 2013, recruiting changed. Year after year after year, Duke secured at least 1 top 5 recruit (and sometimes more). For 4 years running (and likely 5), it's been nothing but extraordinary what Duke has done. I think it's Capel. Capel started in the summer of 2011. It's tough to expect an assistant coach to hit the ground running - they all need lead time. It takes time, even someone who played for the program. Also, many of the 2012 recruits in the summer of 2011 had already committed. IMO, once Capel began focusing on a class without many commitments, his value really started to shine.

[alteran]

1. I really like Seth Greenberg. I find that he's more often than not on Duke's side, and always compliments Coach K and Duke on a really solid team. He has a ton of respect for Duke; anyone with half a brain can realize that. Yes, he's opinionated and will say things that some fan bases don't like. And I'm completely fine with that. But I'd rather have an insightful commentator with DI coaching experience than a) a hyper-active nonsense commentator ("Yeah baby! This is Kansas-Kansas State, but how 'bout them Blue Devils, baby!", b) a commentator who everyone likes because of catch-phrases ('rise and fire!'), c) a commentator with another agenda ('the NCAA needs to make this sport more friendly towards students who want to make a few extra dollars by working over the summers', or d) a commentator who enjoys hearing himself talk (the infamous, "they are alarmingly unathletic').

2. It's been said before, but does anyone think that Duke didn't get at least some sort of advantage from USA Basketball? I agree that asking Coach K to admit the advantage is superfluous and out of the scope of a coach's responsibility, but I really think Seth did it because he wants to put this issue to bed rather than outing Coach K.

3. The question for me is whether Team USA is an unfair advantage, which I don't think Seth Greenberg said. To me, it isn't. Now, if Bill Self and John Calipari were in the same position and had won 60+ games for Team USA and coached 3 straight Olympics, would I think they would have an unfair recruiting advantage? Probably.

4. Team USA is indeed an advantage, but I don't think it's the #1 cause for our baller recruiting. I attribute that to Mr. Jeff Capel, the next coach at Duke. My rationale is as follows: 2012 and 2016 were great Olympic achievements, but neither comes even close to the exposure that Team USA got in 2008. In 2008, Team USA needed to prove themselves. The world was watching closely, reading to pounce on Coach K if he failed or praise him if he won. And praise him they did. I don't think Coach K was loved moreso than after those Olympics. That picture with all those gold medals really helped Coach K. But the year after, Coach K secured a recruiting class of Andre Dawkins, Mason Plumlee, and Ryan Kelly, hardly a class that is considered "Game Changing" (really good players, especially Plumlee, but not anything out of the ordinary for Duke). The next year, Coach K secured his first true OAD, Kyrie Irving. But he was the only game changer, as Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston had zero - or little - NBA potential. The next year, Coach K had an interesting class in Rivers, Gbinije, Cook, Murphy, and Plumlee. In that list, there is only 1 top 25 player (RSCI). And the next year, the class of 2012, Duke had Sulaimon and Jefferson, both outside the top 10. But starting in 2013, recruiting changed. Year after year after year, Duke secured at least 1 top 5 recruit (and sometimes more). For 4 years running (and likely 5), it's been nothing but extraordinary what Duke has done. I think it's Capel. Capel started in the summer of 2011. It's tough to expect an assistant coach to hit the ground running - they all need lead time. It takes time, even someone who played for the program. Also, many of the 2012 recruits in the summer of 2011 had already committed. IMO, once Capel began focusing on a class without many commitments, his value really started to shine.

1) Greenberg- I agree generally about Greenberg, I've found him surprisingly palatable as a commentator, and he doesn't really seem a hater. I don't buy everything he's peddling, but he hasn't been one of the haters.

2) If it were another team, I'd undoubtedly assume Duke got a huge edge from USA Basketball. And, absent actual numbers, I would assume so as well. But I am kind of surprised that the numbers across K's career don't clearly show that. At all.

3 & 4) Exactly. It's hard not to see it as an edge, but a lot of teams out there have an edge. It's not like Duke went from no one at all to dominant. If you do buy the USA-Basketball-Is-An-Advantage case (a reasonable position), it looks like it took Duke from a Top 5 program to... a Top 2 program. Significant, but not overwhelming. (And a lot of other factors could be involved here.)

[UrinalCake]

I've actually heard K address this before, and what he said was that coaching USA Basketball is an advantage, but it is an EARNED advantage. Nobody just handed him an advantage for nothing. He was worked really hard, and taken on the inherent risks, in order to earn this advantage. This could have gone very differently for him if he had failed in this job, but he didn't.

Also, why does nobody every bring up Sean Miller coaching the Junior National team? This is a far greater recruiting advantage IMO. He gets to work DIRECTLY with the high school kids, coaching them and establishing relationships with them. Is it some coincidence that Arizona's recruiting has been killing it in recent years? Every one of the kids who signs with them cites familiarity with the coach as a major reason why they choose them. The fact that Miller gets more time with these kids than any other coach is allowed (by NCAA rules) is a clear advantage, more so than K working with the pros.

Or what about Calipari coaching the Dominican Republic's national team three years ago? Is anyone dumb enough to believe he simply did this out of the goodness of his heart? The fact that Karl Anythony-Towns just happened to be on that team and signed with Kentucky was just a coincidence, right?!?

[757Dukie]

i've exhausted entirely too much energy on this topic, so i'll just say, life isn't fair, deal with it! :cool:

[Steven43]

I think it's Capel. Capel started in the er of 2011. It's tough to expect an assistant coach to hit the ground running - they all need lead time. It takes time, even someone who played for the program. Also, many of the 2012 recruits in the summer of 2011 had already committed. IMO, once Capel began focusing on a class without many commitments, his value really started to shine.

Really dude? You think the high-level recruits that have been choosing Duke the past 4-5 years are primarily doing so because of Jeff Capel? It's not as if the guy has the name recognition or cache' of Michael Jordan or something. Capel was a decent college basketball player who did not make it in the NBA. Then he coached at a fairly low-profile VCU and did pretty well but nothing earth-shattering. Then he coached at Oklahoma for four-plus years, reached the Final 8 once (and that was largely seen as primarily Blake Griffin's achievement), and was fired less than two seasons later.

This is the basketball resume of the assistant coach that you believe recruits are going gaga over? Am I missing something? I'm glad Duke has Capel on the staff and he might well be a good recruiter and eventually a fine head coach somewhere. But he really hasn't proven much of anything when you are talking about head coach of Duke Basketball.

In my opinion, Capel is not anywhere close to having the coaching resume of what one would expect in taking over for possibly the greatest coach in the history of basketball. I would pump the brakes just a bit on this one.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Really dude? You think the high-level recruits that have been choosing Duke the past 4-5 years are primarily doing so because of Jeff Capel? It's not as if the guy has the name recognition or cache' of Michael Jordan or something. Capel was a decent college basketball player who did not make it in the NBA. Then he coached at a fairly low-profile VCU and did pretty well but nothing earth-shattering. Then he coached at Oklahoma for four-plus years, reached the Final 8 once (and that was largely seen as primarily Blake Griffin's achievement), and was fired less than two seasons later.

This is the basketball resume of the assistant coach that you believe recruits are going gaga over? Am I missing something? I'm glad Duke has Capel on the staff and he might well be a good recruiter and eventually a fine head coach somewhere. But he really hasn't proven much of anything when you are talking about head coach of Duke Basketball.

In my opinion, Capel is not anywhere close to having the coaching resume of what one would expect in taking over for possibly the greatest coach in the history of basketball. I would pump the brakes just a bit on this one.

Really dude.

[OldPhiKap]

Jeff Capel is an outstanding recruiter and K has praised him as such. I am in the camp that believes Jeff's return to the staff is the biggest boost to our recruiting of all other influences.

[gus]

This is the basketball resume of the assistant coach that you believe recruits are going gaga over? Am I missing something?

Apparently.

Capel's acumen has been cited frequently. Here, for example (http://www.espn.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/insider/post?id=15109), or here (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article16429226.html). Winslow, Okafor ... a lot of the big names -- they all have pointed to Capel specifically.

There's plenty more out there.

[Steven43]

Really dude.

Okay. Thank you.

[MarkD83]

i've exhausted entirely too much energy on this topic, so i'll just say, life isn't fair, deal with it! :cool:

I agree with this. Recruiting is inherently unfair. Whenever commentators talk about this topic they never get to the "so what". Recruiting is unfair so instead of letting recruits choose where they go to school we should have a draft of high school players with the teams having the worst records picking first....(ridiculous).

Commentators can point out inequities but they usually don't bring up solutions. Don't bring up a problem unless you have a solution or assess whether the problem is real.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree with this. Recruiting is inherently unfair. Whenever commentators talk about this topic they never get to the "so what". Recruiting is unfair so instead of letting recruits choose where they go to school we should have a draft of high school players with the teams having the worst records picking first...(ridiculous).

Commentators can point out inequities but they usually don't bring up solutions. Don't bring up a problem unless you have a solution or assess whether the problem is real.

This would kinda be an awesome experiment. Completely unfair to high schoolers, but fun for everyone else! A coach of amazing X's and O's would dominate!

[oakvillebluedevil]

This would kinda be an awesome experiment. Completely unfair to high schoolers, but fun for everyone else! A coach of amazing X's and O's would dominate!

Just wait until the first teams start to tank...then the hot takes and think pieces will really start flowing :cool:

[flyingdutchdevil]

Just wait until the first teams start to tank...then the hot takes and think pieces will really start flowing :cool:

I think Boston College must be on to something. They must be in the know regarding the high school draft. How else can you explain their complete incompetence over the last half decade plus?

[DukeandMdFan]

Really dude? You think the high-level recruits that have been choosing Duke the past 4-5 years are primarily doing so because of Jeff Capel? It's not as if the guy has the name recognition or cache' of Michael Jordan or something. Capel was a decent college basketball player who did not make it in the NBA. Then he coached at a fairly low-profile VCU and did pretty well but nothing earth-shattering. Then he coached at Oklahoma for four-plus years, reached the Final 8 once (and that was largely seen as primarily Blake Griffin's achievement), and was fired less than two seasons later.

This is the basketball resume of the assistant coach that you believe recruits are going gaga over? Am I missing something? I'm glad Duke has Capel on the staff and he might well be a good recruiter and eventually a fine head coach somewhere. But he really hasn't proven much of anything when you are talking about head coach of Duke Basketball.

In my opinion, Capel is not anywhere close to having the coaching resume of what one would expect in taking over for possibly the greatest coach in the history of basketball. I would pump the brakes just a bit on this one.

I agree with your assessment that HS recruits aren't likely to be too impressed with Jeff Capel's resume. Most of the recruits have dreams of exceeding what Capel achieved as a player. However, he must have other attributes which make him a great recruiter. Similarly, Coach K was a great recruiter before his resume was spectacular. Perhaps, he does a great job building relationships with recruits.

[Ichabod Drain]

Really dude? You think the high-level recruits that have been choosing Duke the past 4-5 years are primarily doing so because of Jeff Capel? It's not as if the guy has the name recognition or cache' of Michael Jordan or something. Capel was a decent college basketball player who did not make it in the NBA. Then he coached at a fairly low-profile VCU and did pretty well but nothing earth-shattering. Then he coached at Oklahoma for four-plus years, reached the Final 8 once (and that was largely seen as primarily Blake Griffin's achievement), and was fired less than two seasons later.

This is the basketball resume of the assistant coach that you believe recruits are going gaga over? Am I missing something? I'm glad Duke has Capel on the staff and he might well be a good recruiter and eventually a fine head coach somewhere. But he really hasn't proven much of anything when you are talking about head coach of Duke Basketball.

In my opinion, Capel is not anywhere close to having the coaching resume of what one would expect in taking over for possibly the greatest coach in the history of basketball. I would pump the brakes just a bit on this one.


I agree with your assessment that HS recruits aren't likely to be too impressed with Jeff Capel's resume. Most of the recruits have dreams of exceeding what Capel achieved as a player. However, he must have other attributes which make him a great recruiter. Similarly, Coach K was a great recruiter before his resume was spectacular. Perhaps, he does a great job building relationships with recruits.

When there was news about Jeff Capel being one of the candidates for the Georgia Tech job earlier this year, I read somewhere (may have been from Adam Rowe) that Giles commitment to Duke had an certain understanding that Capel would remain at Duke for his one year here.

There's definitely something about Capel that resonates with recruits.

[MarkD83]

This would kinda be an awesome experiment. Completely unfair to high schoolers, but fun for everyone else! A coach of amazing X's and O's would dominate!

I can't remember which coach the following quote was meant to compliment...."He is so good he can beat you with his players and then turn around and beat you again with your players."

[arnie]

I can't remember which coach the following quote was meant to compliment..."He is so good he can beat you with his players and then turn around and beat you again with your players."

I know which coach it isn't - 8 miles south.

[ipatent]

Seth Greenberg actually did a good job keeping Virginia Tech competitive in the ACC.

[royalblue]

I can't remember which coach the following quote was meant to compliment..."He is so good he can beat you with his players and then turn around and beat you again with your players."

Bear Bryant

[OldPhiKap]

I can't remember which coach the following quote was meant to compliment..."He is so good he can beat you with his players and then turn around and beat you again with your players."

I don't know. But I do know that Ademola Okulaja beats himself.

[Indoor66]

I don't know. But I do know that Ademola Okulaja beats himself.

Let's not get dirty. :mad::p:cool:

[MChambers]

I can't remember which coach the following quote was meant to compliment..."He is so good he can beat you with his players and then turn around and beat you again with your players."

Think it was said about Bear Bryant.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Seth Greenberg actually did a good job keeping Virginia Tech competitive in the ACC.

Seth - please don't refer to yourself in the third person.

[richardjackson199]

Apparently.

Capel's acumen has been cited frequently. Here, for example (http://www.espn.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/insider/post?id=15109), or here (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article16429226.html). Winslow, Okafor ... a lot of the big names -- they all have pointed to Capel specifically.

There's plenty more out there.

UNC fans are quick to remind you that Capel was fired from Oklahoma in the midst of NCAA impermissable benefits. (They don't fire or even punish their coaches for such things, they give raises and contract extensions). The Keeley article you linked clarifies that had nothing to do with Capel. But it was his program (which was also losing at the time), and as such he took appropriate responsibility and was let go.

But for me, Capel's resume is more than adequate to be Duke's next head coach when the time comes (hopefully no time soon). What was Krzyzewski's resume when he started at Duke? He'd learned from Bob Knight who recommended him highly. Capel (among many others) has learned from K. So if K feels he's the right man for the job, that's good enough for me.

I love Capel. But more importantly, other than UNC fans and rival recruiters, everybody seems to love Capel. Laura Keeley talked about how even all the media loved him due to his charisma, and warm, available helpfulness. He's clearly a world class recruiter. Things didn't end well at Oklahoma, but to me he's shown he can coach and succeed as a head coach. And like the great article linked on today's front page shows, he is always learning how to be better and sustain a program. He's good enough, he's smart enough, and doggone it people like him.

Capel would be my vote, but I'd be equally happy with many others like Wojo, Mike Brey (never heard his name mentioned, but he can coach), Collins, Amaker, Hurley, Dawkins, etc. Or I'd be fine with some big name established coach like Brad Stevens, but I don't see that one happening. I'm sure it would be tough choosing between former assistants (it's like being asked to name your favorite child). But I trust K and I'm sure he will make the right choice.

[sagegrouse]

I can't remember which coach the following quote was meant to compliment..."He is so good he can beat you with his players and then turn around and beat you again with your players."


Think it was said about Bear Bryant.

The unforgettable Bum Phillips of the old Houston Oilers (referring to Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula) -- "He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n." He also said the same line about Bear Bryant.

Kindly,
Sage
'I thought it originated with old Clemson coach Frank Howard, who was exceedingly country, but actually Phi Beta Kappa at Alabama'

[richardjackson199]

Besides learning from K, Capel comes from a family of coaches. His father, Jeff, was a good coach at Old Dominion and also spent nearly a decade as an assistant coach in the NBA.

His brother Jason's coaching career didn't go so well at Appalachian State when he was let go after a 9-21 season. But Jason did lead my all time favorite Tarheel team who finished even worse at 8-20.

It's true our Jeff started for Duke's troubled 13-18 group from 95. Even though that team barely lost to the #2 ranked Heels in OT, I'll remember him that season for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZvnJ_sngI

[johnb]

It's perhaps relevant that UCLA chose Gene Bartow to follow Wooden. An Alabaman, Bartow had been 8-18 at Illinois the previous year. Seems like a recipe for failure, but he racked up a 52-9 record over 3 seasons, including a Final Four. Of course, that was with Wooden's players. His replacement, Gary Cunningham, was 50-8 the following 3 years. They got Larry Brown in 1979, which is about when we got K. Since 1975 (the year Wooden left and K got the HC job at Army), UCLA has won 902 games. Those 902 are within striking distance of K's 1000+, but those wins come under NINE different coaches. While they've won a lot of games, UCLA is considered second tier since Wooden left. I'm certainly glad Duke got K and UCLA got Bartow, who was also a good coach with a similarly bad record at his prior school.

I'd say that K's task is to find a replacement who is willing to stay and then be successful for a couple of decades. Less emotionally secure coaches (leaders, CEO's) would be content to be remembered as the savior who was simply better than the next guy, but K is so steeped in leadership that I have a lot of confidence that he and the AD will find someone who can keep the train on its tracks into the indefinite future. As for whether we get one of the top 2 recruiting classes every year, that's another story.

Wandered into K replacement discussion... sorry about that, especially since I'd view it as 5 years premature..