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martydoesntfoul
08-24-2016, 02:28 PM
Fired Illini Coach Tim Beckman now a volunteer coach for UNC defense

"Tim Beckman, who was fired as the Illinois Fighting Illini's football coach last year following a school investigation that found he mistreated players, is now a volunteer coach on defense for North Carolina, a school official confirmed Wednesday."

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17381794/fired-illinois-fighting-illini-coach-tim-beckman-volunteering-north-carolina-tar-heels

budwom
08-24-2016, 02:34 PM
well, they have a rich tradition to uphold. Gene Chizik got canned from Auburn (*) where he allegedly paid players, had grades changed...and
landed as defensive coordinator in Chapel Hill. The Carolina Way if you will.

* be advised he didn't get canned because he cheat, bribed players, etc. he got canned because he went 3-9.

Olympic Fan
08-24-2016, 03:21 PM
Getting Illinois ex-coach ... hmmm.

I wonder how that impacts UNC's trip to Illinois on Sept. 10?

weezie
08-24-2016, 03:28 PM
He can drive the bus to and from the airport.

PackMan97
08-24-2016, 04:08 PM
"Tim Beckman, who was fired as the Illinois Fighting Illini's football coach last year following a school investigation that found he mistreated players, is now a volunteer coach on defense for North Carolina, a school official confirmed Wednesday."

don't worry, he's promised to mistreat regular students as well. nothing to see here.

CameronBornAndBred
08-24-2016, 04:12 PM
don't worry, he's promised to mistreat regular students as well. nothing to see here.

Heard he's going to volunteer his skills for parking enforcement too.

flyingdutchdevil
08-24-2016, 04:12 PM
UNC or the NCAA?

We agree that UNC shouldn't be doing this BS, but the NCAA allows them to get away with so much. The sad thing is that UNC continues to do this crap without any repercussions from the NCAA. Sigh...

plimnko
08-24-2016, 04:32 PM
UNC or the NCAA?

We agree that UNC shouldn't be doing this BS, but the NCAA allows them to get away with so much. The sad thing is that UNC continues to do this crap without any repercussions from the NCAA. Sigh...

NEITHER have balls!! UNC doesn't have the balls to own up to their lying cheating ways and the NCAA doesn't have the balls to hold them accountable.

OldPhiKap
08-24-2016, 04:33 PM
"UNC Athletics Audacity Knows No Bounds"

In other news, water is wet.

I really hate those guys.

dukelifer
08-24-2016, 04:34 PM
Fired Illini Coach Tim Beckman now a volunteer coach for UNC defense

"Tim Beckman, who was fired as the Illinois Fighting Illini's football coach last year following a school investigation that found he mistreated players, is now a volunteer coach on defense for North Carolina, a school official confirmed Wednesday."

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17381794/fired-illinois-fighting-illini-coach-tim-beckman-volunteering-north-carolina-tar-heels

I wonder why he has chosen a volunteer job in NC. He used to coach at Elon and Western Carolina- so perhaps he has a fondness for the area and he has ties to Fedora. Apparently he had issues at both Toledo and Illinois. Certainly UNC is continuing to make questionable decisions. I know some UNC fans who are not very happy with the entire nature of UNC sports at the moment and are very complimentary of Cutcliffe and his approach to Duke football.

sagegrouse
08-24-2016, 04:37 PM
I wonder why he has chosen a volunteer job in NC. He used to coach at Elon and Western Carolina- so perhaps he has a fondness for the area and he has ties to Fedora. Apparently he had issues at both Toledo and Illinois. Certainly UNC is continuing to make questionable decisions. I know some UNC fans who are not very happy with the entire nature of UNC sports at the moment and are very complimentary of Cutcliffe and his approach to Duke football.

"Voices crying in the wilderness?"

Bob Green
08-24-2016, 04:46 PM
We agree that UNC shouldn't be doing this BS, but the NCAA allows them to get away with so much. The sad thing is that UNC continues to do this crap without any repercussions from the NCAA. Sigh...

For this specific act, using Tim Beckman as a volunteer coach, what rule is UNC breaking? What is the NCAA allowing UNC to get away with? Does Tim Beckman not deserve a second chance? I do not know the man but perhaps this is a situation where one should walk a mile in his shoes before criticizing.

My two cents.

MarkD83
08-24-2016, 04:53 PM
On this thread and many other threads there is a disgust that the NCAA has done nothing or that UNC will get away with this....

At some point in the past 6 months I have come to the conclusion that even though we as fans feel helpless, we can actually do a lot in this situation. I for one no longer consider UNC as a legitimate respected rival. I will still watch the games against UNC and cheer for Duke to win but UNC has now replaced Md as the team that wants Duke to be a peer/rival but really isn't. So, to UNC fans out there (Art Chansky)...quit "Terping" because I don't really care anymore.

When does Duke play NC State...there is a fan base and series of teams I can respect and we as Duke fans can start to promote as Duke's true rival without the NCAA's help. (BTW when Duke beats UNC in football this year and we get the silly bell back we should just let them keep it or perhaps bring it out at the next NCSU/Duke game to be painted either Duke blue or NC State red).

flyingdutchdevil
08-24-2016, 05:09 PM
For this specific act, using Tim Beckman as a volunteer coach, what rule is UNC breaking? What is the NCAA allowing UNC to get away with? Does Tim Beckman not deserve a second chance? I do not know the man but perhaps this is a situation where one should walk a mile in his shoes before criticizing.

My two cents.

My point is that UNC can continue to do these things (cheating, hiring fired coaches, etc) as long as either a) the NCAA doesn't punish UNC or b) it's completely legal (but frowned upon) to do (like hiring the parent of a recruit as an assistant coach). The NCAA, unfortunately, enables schools like UNC with either poor referring or poor understanding of the rules or poor rules to begin with.

Personally, I blame the NCAA moreso than any school.

burnspbesq
08-24-2016, 05:35 PM
On this thread and many other threads there is a disgust that the NCAA has done nothing or that UNC will get away with this...

At some point in the past 6 months I have come to the conclusion that even though we as fans feel helpless, we can actually do a lot in this situation. I for one no longer consider UNC as a legitimate respected rival. I will still watch the games against UNC and cheer for Duke to win but UNC has now replaced Md as the team that wants Duke to be a peer/rival but really isn't. So, to UNC fans out there (Art Chansky)...quit "Terping" because I don't really care anymore.

When does Duke play NC State...there is a fan base and series of teams I can respect and we as Duke fans can start to promote as Duke's true rival without the NCAA's help. (BTW when Duke beats UNC in football this year and we get the silly bell back we should just let them keep it or perhaps bring it out at the next NCSU/Duke game to be painted either Duke blue or NC State red).

Duke and State next play in football in 2023.

If you think that's a wierd piece of scheduling by the ACC, consider that the Duke and UNC women's soccer teams are playing a non-conference game next weekend, because in its infinite wisdom the ACC decided not to make an exception to the way teams rotate on and off each other's conference schedules.

Teton Jack
08-24-2016, 05:45 PM
On this thread and many other threads there is a disgust that the NCAA has done nothing or that UNC will get away with this...

At some point in the past 6 months I have come to the conclusion that even though we as fans feel helpless, we can actually do a lot in this situation. I for one no longer consider UNC as a legitimate respected rival. I will still watch the games against UNC and cheer for Duke to win but UNC has now replaced Md as the team that wants Duke to be a peer/rival but really isn't. So, to UNC fans out there (Art Chansky)...quit "Terping" because I don't really care anymore.

When does Duke play NC State...there is a fan base and series of teams I can respect and we as Duke fans can start to promote as Duke's true rival without the NCAA's help. (BTW when Duke beats UNC in football this year and we get the silly bell back we should just let them keep it or perhaps bring it out at the next NCSU/Duke game to be painted either Duke blue or NC State red).

I would agree. Collectively, isn't it time we demote UNC and say that it is no longer a "rival"? They are just another team we play. Even better, maybe we can arrange a trade with the SEC, UNC for UK. They get another cheater and we upgrade the academic standards for athletes. At least their athletes have to attend some classes, right?

77devil
08-24-2016, 06:29 PM
I know some UNC fans who are not very happy with the entire nature of UNC sports at the moment and are very complimentary of Cutcliffe and his approach to Duke football.


"Voices crying in the wilderness?"

And persona non grata in Chapel Hill.

devildeac
08-24-2016, 06:30 PM
He can drive the bus to and from the airport.

Not with Sylvia under it he can't!

:rolleyes:

devildeac
08-24-2016, 06:31 PM
don't worry, he's promised to mistreat regular students as well. nothing to see here.

Nicely played. Can't spork you ;) .

devildeac
08-24-2016, 06:32 PM
Heard he's going to volunteer his skills for parking enforcement too.

Now that's the ticket...

martydoesntfoul
08-24-2016, 06:40 PM
Not with Sylvia under it he can't!

:rolleyes: Plus, it's already too Crowdered with fake student athletes...

SilkyJ
08-24-2016, 06:49 PM
On this thread and many other threads there is a disgust that the NCAA has done nothing or that UNC will get away with this...

At some point in the past 6 months I have come to the conclusion that even though we as fans feel helpless, we can actually do a lot in this situation. I for one no longer consider UNC as a legitimate respected rival. I will still watch the games against UNC and cheer for Duke to win but UNC has now replaced Md as the team that wants Duke to be a peer/rival but really isn't. So, to UNC fans out there (Art Chansky)...quit "Terping" because I don't really care anymore.

When does Duke play NC State...there is a fan base and series of teams I can respect and we as Duke fans can start to promote as Duke's true rival without the NCAA's help. (BTW when Duke beats UNC in football this year and we get the silly bell back we should just let them keep it or perhaps bring it out at the next NCSU/Duke game to be painted either Duke blue or NC State red).

Yep, been saying this for years! Not really a rival anymore...

Chicago 1995
08-24-2016, 07:25 PM
For this specific act, using Tim Beckman as a volunteer coach, what rule is UNC breaking? What is the NCAA allowing UNC to get away with? Does Tim Beckman not deserve a second chance? I do not know the man but perhaps this is a situation where one should walk a mile in his shoes before criticizing.

My two cents.

Given the circumstances of Beckman's firing at Illinois, I'm not sure he does deserve a second chance. Playing games with the health and safety of players is, in my opinion, a nearly unforgivable offense.

That he gets that chance so quickly at UNC isn't all that surprising, and really it's just one more piece of evidence that winning is the only thing that matters at that university, no matter how much they might argue otherwise.

devildeac
08-24-2016, 09:09 PM
Plus, it's already too Crowdered with fake student athletes...

Well done.

N'yang, N'yang, N'yang to you, too.

martydoesntfoul
08-24-2016, 11:39 PM
Well done.

N'yang, N'yang, N'yang to you, too.

I think you're on to something: If anyone asks if you did it--no matter what the evidence is--answer "N'yang!" immediately in a loud, direct, authoritative voice. Something similar worked well in the USSR for many years. And it seems to have been effective for the sheep too.

madscavenger
08-25-2016, 05:36 AM
Tim Beckman came to Chapel Hill to enhance his skill set. He shares their ethics. He shares their morals. He just needs a little breadth and some hands on experience. Kinda like going to grad school.

richardjackson199
08-25-2016, 06:31 AM
From USA Today Article titled UNC Makes 2 Big Mistakes at Once
regarding Beckman "volunteer" position

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/unc-coach-makes-two-big-mistakes-at-once/ar-BBw1PU1?li=BBnb7Kz

I'm assuming this might be pointed out to some recruits UNC is going after (or has gotten verbals from) by rival programs.

sandinmyshoes
08-25-2016, 06:43 AM
Beckman was fired because he did not win enough games. The athlete complaints were evidently legit enough to give Illinois an opening to break his contract. I wonder if Illinois dismissed the members of the medical staff who allowed him to get away with his actions?

Most reports of the hiring note that Beckman and Fedora have a relationship based on having coached together as assistants. That was at Ok. State, I think.

I am more interested in how one "hires" a volunteer. Maybe there just isn't a word used for it, like say "allowed". Is he entitled to any compensation? What are the numbers allowed for such positions?

Most of the UNC fans I know are not happy about it. They think Fedora is just doing a favor for an old friend, but fail to see what the guy can bring that will benefit the program, and gripe about the "optics". That said, they are quick to point out that Coach K hired Jeff Capel after he was fired with his program under a cloud. I have to point out that while that is technically true, Jeff was not specifically implicated in any wrong doing, as is Beckman.

All that said, nothing says a team is not your rival like multiple threads of multiple page lengths. UNC will always be a rival to me, and all these claims otherwise strike me as a childish form of what we might call setting up sour grapes arguments.

DukieInKansas
08-25-2016, 07:33 AM
On this thread and many other threads there is a disgust that the NCAA has done nothing or that UNC will get away with this...

At some point in the past 6 months I have come to the conclusion that even though we as fans feel helpless, we can actually do a lot in this situation. I for one no longer consider UNC as a legitimate respected rival. I will still watch the games against UNC and cheer for Duke to win but UNC has now replaced Md as the team that wants Duke to be a peer/rival but really isn't. So, to UNC fans out there (Art Chansky)...quit "Terping" because I don't really care anymore.

When does Duke play NC State...there is a fan base and series of teams I can respect and we as Duke fans can start to promote as Duke's true rival without the NCAA's help. (BTW when Duke beats UNC in football this year and we get the silly bell back we should just let them keep it or perhaps bring it out at the next NCSU/Duke game to be painted either Duke blue or NC State red).

Terping = heeling now?

DukieInKansas
08-25-2016, 07:38 AM
Tim Beckman came to Chapel Hill to enhance his skill set. He shares their ethics. He shares their morals. He just needs a little breadth and some hands on experience. Kinda like going to grad school.

Will he get credit toward a Masters for this?

Indoor66
08-25-2016, 07:46 AM
Plus, it's already too Crowdered with fake student athletes...

Max would never accept fake student athletes! :mad::cool:

Chicago 1995
08-25-2016, 08:08 AM
Beckman was fired because he did not win enough games. The athlete complaints were evidently legit enough to give Illinois an opening to break his contract.

Beckman was fired a week before last season started, was coming off a bowl appearance and had a team expected by most to be a bowl (albeit lesser bowl) caliber team in 2015. The timing of his firing scuttled the 2015-2016 recruiting cycle, and the situation with Bill Cubit his extension and then termination put Illinois way behind in 2016-2017 recruiting.

His record wasn't great, but that's par for the course at Illinois. There's no reason to think he was canned for lack of success given all of the circumstances and the timing around his firing. Illinois would have scuttled two recruiting cycles ended up stuck with buyouts for Cubit's staff, and faced a good bit of terrible PR just to avoid a buyout? That makes no sense.

wsb3
08-25-2016, 08:33 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2016/08/24/larry-fedora-tim-beckman-unc-north-carolina-tar-heels-football-coach/89315362/

oldnavy
08-25-2016, 08:57 AM
My point is that UNC can continue to do these things (cheating, hiring fired coaches, etc) as long as either a) the NCAA doesn't punish UNC or b) it's completely legal (but frowned upon) to do (like hiring the parent of a recruit as an assistant coach). The NCAA, unfortunately, enables schools like UNC with either poor referring or poor understanding of the rules or poor rules to begin with.

Personally, I blame the NCAA moreso than any school.

I agree. The issue is less about giving someone a second chance, it is about where that second chance takes place. If Beckman was volunteering at Stanford, or UVa, or even Duke, (insert any school not under a cloud of suspicion), the narrative would be much different.

But, being given a second chance to "redeem" oneself in a place that is rotten to the core with ethical disease could be seen more as him finding a place where his shortcomings are more accepted and perhaps even welcomed than a place where he will find the structure he may need for redemption.

CameronBornAndBred
08-25-2016, 09:24 AM
From USA Today Article titled UNC Makes 2 Big Mistakes at Once
regarding Beckman "volunteer" position

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/unc-coach-makes-two-big-mistakes-at-once/ar-BBw1PU1?li=BBnb7Kz

I'm assuming this might be pointed out to some recruits UNC is going after (or has gotten verbals from) by rival programs.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2016/08/24/larry-fedora-tim-beckman-unc-north-carolina-tar-heels-football-coach/89315362/

Same article...and here is my favorite quote. He learned well from his bosses.

I know (criticism is) going to happen, and then a couple of days from now it won’t be news. I mean, I promise you, I didn’t see anywhere where the NCAA said that he should be banished from the game of football. You know?
That is the exact same as the school's take on the grander scheme; so I've made some edits.

“We know (criticism is) going to happen, and then a couple of months from now it won’t be news. We mean, we promise you, we didn’t see anywhere where the NCAA said that we should be banished from the game of football and basketball. You know?"

porcophile
08-25-2016, 05:56 PM
And surely no one believes that he's living off his savings. Wonder who's paying him?

chrishoke
08-25-2016, 06:18 PM
Scathing article in the N&O.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article97833822.html

brevity
08-25-2016, 06:45 PM
"Tim Beckman, who was fired as the Illinois Fighting Illini's football coach last year following a school investigation that found he mistreated players, is now a volunteer coach on defense for North Carolina, a school official confirmed Wednesday."


don't worry, he's promised to mistreat regular students as well. nothing to see here.

Usually I don't believe in second chances, but Tim Beckman has my support. If I got a chance to apply regular beatings to UNC players and students, I'd do it for free, too.

CameronBornAndBred
08-25-2016, 07:12 PM
I haven't seen this brought up in this thread, it's very interesting.


But his mere existence on North Carolina’s staff does raise eyebrows, and not merely because of Beckman’s past. According to an NCAA compliance document (http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.com/bceagles.com/documents/2016/3/3/Playing_Practice_Policies_and_Procedures.pdf?id=12 595) found on the athletic department Website at Boston College — like North Carolina, a member of the ACC — volunteer coaches are not permitted in NCAA football and basketball. Similar prohibitions can be found on the official Websites of the University of Houston (http://www.uhcougars.com/compliance/compliance-coaches-info.html), South Carolina (http://www.gamecocksonline.com/compliance/gamecock-club.html), Louisiana-Lafayette (https://www.louisiana.edu/sites/compliance/files/Coaching%20Staff%20and%20Off%20Campus%20Recruiters %20Designation%20Form%20-%20Football.pdf) and Florida International (https://www.nmnathletics.com/pdf8/839074.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=11700).

I can't tell, is that an NCAA policy? Or school dependent?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/08/24/fired-for-mistreating-players-at-illinois-tim-beckman-already-has-a-new-coaching-job/

NSDukeFan
08-25-2016, 07:14 PM
I haven't seen this brought up in this thread, it's very interesting.



I can't tell, is that an NCAA policy? Or school dependent?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/08/24/fired-for-mistreating-players-at-illinois-tim-beckman-already-has-a-new-coaching-job/

If it's an NCAA policy, it's not relevant to UNC.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-25-2016, 07:42 PM
I haven't seen this brought up in this thread, it's very interesting.



I can't tell, is that an NCAA policy? Or school dependent?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/08/24/fired-for-mistreating-players-at-illinois-tim-beckman-already-has-a-new-coaching-job/
I figured it out! They're gonna self report and get another delay on the rendering of penalties by the COI until after the NCAA issues a double secret amended NOA in 2018.

SCMatt33
08-25-2016, 07:43 PM
Well that didn't last long...

https://twitter.com/DavidTeelatDP/status/768950210223562752

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-25-2016, 07:47 PM
Well that didn't last long...

https://twitter.com/DavidTeelatDP/status/768950210223562752
Can't wait for the Cheats to try to claim the moral high ground on the basis of having done the right thing here... right after they again did the completely wrong thing. Just wait. It's coming.

BigWayne
08-26-2016, 04:51 AM
I haven't seen this brought up in this thread, it's very interesting.



I can't tell, is that an NCAA policy? Or school dependent?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/08/24/fired-for-mistreating-players-at-illinois-tim-beckman-already-has-a-new-coaching-job/

NCAA policy on volunteer football coaches is that they count the same as paid coaches. They can have one head coach, nine assistants, and four graduate assistants. They can be paid or not. UNC already has a full set of coaches plus a few extras with creative titles like quality control. (http://www.goheels.com/SportSelect.dbml?SITE=UNC&DB_OEM_ID=3350&SPID=12962&SPSID=668155) To be fair Duke also has these positions as do most FBS schools.

UNC claimed he wasn't actually a coach and was not interacting with players on the field, but that lie was easily seen through apparently. (https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock/status/768879254952108032/photo/1)

CameronBornAndBred
08-26-2016, 08:24 AM
UNC claimed he wasn't actually a coach and was not interacting with players on the field, but that lie was easily seen through apparently. (https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock/status/768879254952108032/photo/1)

LOL @ Nathan Sanders' reply...

"See, it says right here in this contract agreement that I'm not allowed to work with you. So ... sorry. Good luck out there."

PS...any chance that interaction (brief or not) leads to any more sanctions for Campbell?

PackMan97
08-26-2016, 10:02 AM
LOL @ Nathan Sanders' reply...


PS...any chance that interaction (brief or not) leads to any more sanctions for Campbell?

I'm looking for it, but I saw another picture of Beckmen working with a regular student, so it's all good.

aimo
08-26-2016, 10:30 AM
Loved Bubba's response, "We will learn from this and continue preparing for the season."

Ha! No they won't. Fedora is a moron, and is going to continue to do incredibly stupid things as long as he is there.

sagegrouse
08-26-2016, 10:42 AM
Loved Bubba's response, "We will learn from this and continue preparing for the season."

Ha! No they won't. Fedora is a moron, and is going to continue to do incredibly stupid things as long as he is there.

As also evident by the fact that he wears a baseball cap, not a fedora, on the sidelines. I mean, Larry, it's OK to be literal.

TKG
08-26-2016, 11:36 AM
Loved Bubba's response, "We will learn from this and continue preparing for the season.

One has to wonder just how bleeping steep is the learning curve over there?

CameronBornAndBred
08-26-2016, 11:39 AM
One has to wonder just how bleeping steep is the learning curve over there?
6605

BD80
08-26-2016, 12:04 PM
6605

This is how I feel on a four-step stepladder.

DevilHorse
08-26-2016, 12:43 PM
6605

I thought Cliff Notes would be an easy out!

Larry
DevilHorse

westwall
08-26-2016, 12:45 PM
One has to wonder just how bleeping steep is the learning curve over there?

Even Chansky is scratching his head:

http://chapelboro.com/sports/chanskys-notebook-a-failure-to-communicate

CameronBornAndBred
08-26-2016, 12:53 PM
Even Chansky is scratching his head:

http://chapelboro.com/sports/chanskys-notebook-a-failure-to-communicate


It may be Fedora’s program, but one would think that such a move had to be cleared by Athletic Director Bubba Cunningham, who reports directly to Chancellor Carol Folt. Both acted like they knew nothing about Fedora hiring Beckman, but isn’t that a little hard to believe? With all that has gone on at UNC football over the last six years, wouldn’t everything from new helmets to old friends have to be run up the food chain?

Yes! Yes it would, Art! Unless you apply the same logic to coaches knowing about things such as fake classes, then no, no it wouldn't. Grrrrrr....

TKG
08-26-2016, 12:57 PM
Even Chansky is scratching his head:[/url]

Lice.

BD80
08-26-2016, 01:00 PM
Lice.

Sleep with the dogs ...

dukelifer
08-26-2016, 03:13 PM
Can't wait for the Cheats to try to claim the moral high ground on the basis of having done the right thing here... right after they again did the completely wrong thing. Just wait. It's coming.

Didn't they get what they needed? Inside info on how to beat Illinois? I think that was the main purpose of the "hire".

oldnavy
08-26-2016, 03:26 PM
Didn't they get what they needed? Inside info on how to beat Illinois? I think that was the main purpose of the "hire".

Are they that insecure that they feel the need to get insider info on how to beat Illinois?

This was just a stupid move by a not so smart coach, working at a place where they honestly believe they are better than everyone else and that they cannot do wrong...

hudlow
08-26-2016, 03:45 PM
I bet he got a nice severance package...

CameronBornAndBred
08-26-2016, 04:39 PM
I bet he got a nice severance package...

Free hat.

martydoesntfoul
08-26-2016, 04:46 PM
Not that this could ever happen, but so what...

I hereby propose a straight-up trade between the ACC and SEC: UNC-HW for Vanderbilt. That way, both schools end up in the right place.

Atlanta Duke
08-26-2016, 05:01 PM
The N&O takes another jab with this article

An oral history of the Tim Beckman era at UNC

The Tim Beckman era has ended at North Carolina. He leaves behind a colorful history, orange-tinted sunglasses included, that wasn’t without its lows.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article98060072.html

cato
08-26-2016, 05:37 PM
Didn't they get what they needed? Inside info on how to beat Illinois? I think that was the main purpose of the "hire".

In that case, they should have lobbied for Tim Beckman to keep his job.

OldPhiKap
08-26-2016, 05:59 PM
Free hat.

I bet he goy s free bowl of soup with it.

TKG
08-26-2016, 06:01 PM
I bet he goy s free bowl of soup with it.

Looks good on him, though!

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-26-2016, 06:08 PM
The N&O takes another jab with this article

An oral history of the Tim Beckman era at UNC

The Tim Beckman era has ended at North Carolina. He leaves behind a colorful history, orange-tinted sunglasses included, that wasn’t without its lows.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article98060072.html
Loved this comment:

C Brian Joyner
In Fedora's defense, nowhere in Folt's 462 reforms does it say, "don't do anything incredibly stupid and then act like an indignant *** to the media when they ask." So, how was he supposed to know?

BD80
08-26-2016, 06:19 PM
Are they that insecure that they feel the need to get insider info on how to beat Illinois? ...

Because he had experience beating the Illini players?

OldPhiKap
08-26-2016, 06:46 PM
Looks good on him, though!

He's no small slouch.

NSDukeFan
08-26-2016, 08:04 PM
Are they that insecure that they feel the need to get insider info on how to beat Illinois?

This was just a stupid move by a not so smart coach, working at a place where they honestly believe they are better than everyone else and that they cannot do wrong...

Just a reminder this is the same "formerly proud" educational institution that was so insecure that their former rival started winning more basketball games than their beloved coach that it was worth tainting the reputation of the university by putting athletics ahead of academic integrity in the worst athletic scandal in the history of the NCAA, stretching over 20-25 years. This "school" was then insecure enough to never face up to its wrongdoings, admit guilt and move on. I am pretty sure they are insecure enough.

NSDukeFan
08-26-2016, 08:09 PM
Are they that insecure that they feel the need to get insider info on how to beat Illinois?

This was just a stupid move by a not so smart coach, working at a place where they honestly believe they are better than everyone else and that they cannot do wrong...

Just a reminder this is the same "formerly proud" educational institution that was so insecure that their former rival started winning more basketball games than their beloved coach that it was worth tainting the reputation of the university by putting athletics ahead of academic integrity in the worst athletic scandal in the history of the NCAA, stretching over 20-25 years. This "school" was then insecure enough to never face up to its wrongdoings, admit guilt and move on. I am pretty sure they are insecure enough.

oldnavy
08-27-2016, 04:23 AM
Just a reminder this is the same "formerly proud" educational institution that was so insecure that their former rival started winning more basketball games than their beloved coach that it was worth tainting the reputation of the university by putting athletics ahead of academic integrity in the worst athletic scandal in the history of the NCAA, stretching over 20-25 years. This "school" was then insecure enough to never face up to its wrongdoings, admit guilt and move on. I am pretty sure they are insecure enough.

Yes, you make a valid point!

richardjackson199
08-27-2016, 04:37 PM
What is Miami thinking? They actually kicked good players off the football team for driving around in luxury cars. They need to talk to Larry, Roy, Bubba, and crew about how to circumvent such unnecessary consequences.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/al-quadin-muhammad-jermaine-grace-dismissed-from-miami-program/ar-AAi9CUB?li=BBnb7Kz

PackMan97
08-27-2016, 06:27 PM
What is Miami thinking? They actually kicked good players off the football team for driving around in luxury cars. They need to talk to Larry, Roy, Bubba, and crew about how to circumvent such unnecessary consequences.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/al-quadin-muhammad-jermaine-grace-dismissed-from-miami-program/ar-AAi9CUB?li=BBnb7Kz

What they didn't know, is the value of the luxury car is only limited to the amount of time the player was actually driving the car. When the car is parked in front of the basketball facilities, or their dorm, they aren't actively using the vehicle and that share of time should not count against the player.

NSDukeFan
08-27-2016, 07:37 PM
What they didn't know, is the value of the luxury car is only limited to the amount of time the player was actually driving the car. When the car is parked in front of the basketball facilities, or their dorm, they aren't actively using the vehicle and that share of time should not count against the player.

I believe as you had said before, shouldn't another a non-athlete student been allowed to drive a luxury car, so that everything would have been fine?

Merlindevildog91
08-27-2016, 08:25 PM
Exhibit 847 why Mack Brown fit in so well at the sewer down the road.

He is the announcer for the Charleston Southern-North Dakota State game. He made the deeply profound comment, "North Dakota State has used a lot of different offensive formations so far."

It was the THIRD play from scrimmage.

TruBlu
08-27-2016, 11:29 PM
Exhibit 847 why Mack Brown fit in so well at the sewer down the road.

He is the announcer for the Charleston Southern-North Dakota State game. He made the deeply profound comment, "North Dakota State has used a lot of different offensive formations so far."

It was the THIRD play from scrimmage.

Well, Mack did have to use 30% of his fingers to add them up. (50% of total available, considering that one thumb and one finger were probably assigned to other duties.)

PackMan97
09-13-2016, 12:23 PM
A UNC student is going public after claiming UNC failed to take action after she reported being raped by a football player.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-chapel-hill-student-claims-rape-by-football-player/1509665/


The UNC student said following the incident she went to the hospital and "gave an account of what I could remember to the sexual assault nurse."

Robinson stated she was also asked by DPS investigators about the incident and said they "asked humiliating and accusatory questions."

"My humiliation turned to anger when I listened to the recorded interviews of my rapist by DPS," Robinson's statement continued. "Rather than accusing him of anything, the investigators spoke to him with a tone of comradery. They provided reassurances to him when he became upset. They even laughed with him when he told them how many girls' phone numbers he had managed to get on the same night he raped me. They told him, 'don't sweat it, just keep on living your life and playing football.'"

"I did everything a rape victim is supposed to do. I reported it. I allowed the rape kit to be taken. I gave a statement. I cooperated with law enforcement and the Title IX office. But six months later the University has done nothing," she continued. "I'm taking this public stand not for me, but for the other students on campus who are not protected, despite what the University tells us. I love this University. It's my home. I plan on graduating. But I expect the University to fulfill its promises to me and to all students."

CameronBlue
09-13-2016, 12:53 PM
A UNC student is going public after claiming UNC failed to take action after she reported being raped by a football player.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-chapel-hill-student-claims-rape-by-football-player/1509665/

That's a compelling story. DPS giving her the ol Mary Willingham treatment. The Carolina Way.

sammy3469
09-13-2016, 01:01 PM
I didn't realize UNC was already facing a pending federal complaint by former students and an administrator over the mishandling of sexual assault cases.


UNC faces a pending federal complaint by former students and a former administrator who said the university mishandled sexual assault cases and the reporting of sex crimes.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article101556507.html#storylink=cpy

devildeac
09-13-2016, 02:28 PM
A UNC student is going public after claiming UNC failed to take action after she reported being raped by a football player.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-chapel-hill-student-claims-rape-by-football-player/1509665/


That's a compelling story. DPS giving her the ol Mary Willingham treatment. The Carolina Way.


I didn't realize UNC was already facing a pending federal complaint by former students and an administrator over the mishandling of sexual assault cases.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article101556507.html#storylink=cpy

Looking/sounding like restaurant choices by the athletes (no need to include student with this institution) might well be limited again over at/near/around the dump. :rolleyes::mad:

UrinalCake
09-13-2016, 02:53 PM
Not the first time the university has failed to support victims of sexual assault, and instead became hostile towards the victims in order to keep them quiet.

https://thinkprogress.org/university-of-north-carolina-allegedly-retaliated-against-a-rape-victim-for-coming-forward-f24a5e8e232c#.9zaphq1km

And even at the higher levels, administrators were instructed to under-report sexual assault cases

http://jezebel.com/5977074/uncs-former-dean-of-students-says-she-was-forced-to-underreport-sexual-assault-cases

weezie
09-13-2016, 03:58 PM
Has Arthur Chansky been given a chance to speak yet?

Dr. Rosenrosen
09-13-2016, 04:16 PM
Cesspool.

JetpackJesus
09-13-2016, 05:19 PM
A UNC student is going public after claiming UNC failed to take action after she reported being raped by a football player.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-chapel-hill-student-claims-rape-by-football-player/1509665/

Some disturbing things in this story (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/13/unc-student-delaney-robinson-accuses-football-player-allen-artis-of-rape.html), if true:


When Robinson was interviewed by campus police, she says they all but blamed her.

“I was treated like a suspect,” she said. “What was I wearing? What was I drinking? How much did I drink? How much did I eat that day? Did I lead him on? Have I hooked up with him before? Do I often have one-night stands? Did I even say no? What is my sexual history? How many men have I slept with?”

Robinson’s attorney was allegedly told by Assistant District Attorney Jeff Nieman that “unconsciousness is rape, blackout drunk is not rape.”

Robinson said that an audio recording of campus police interviews with Artis revealed investigators joking with the accused rapist.

“Rather than accusing him of anything, the investigators spoke to him with a tone of camaraderie,” Robinson said. “They provided reassurances to him when he became upset. They even laughed with him when he told them how many girls’ phone numbers he had managed to get on the same night he raped me.

“They told him, ‘Don’t sweat it, just keep on living your life and playing football.’”

El_Diablo
09-13-2016, 05:40 PM
Some disturbing things in this story (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/13/unc-student-delaney-robinson-accuses-football-player-allen-artis-of-rape.html), if true:


Robinson’s attorney was allegedly told by Assistant District Attorney Jeff Nieman that “unconsciousness is rape, blackout drunk is not rape.”

:mad: Guess where this genius ADA went to school?

Per his LinkedIn profile:

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
BA, Political Science, 2000
Activities and Societies: Order of the Golden Fleece, Order of the Old Well, University of North Carolina Association of Student Governments, Granville Towers Resident Assistant

BigWayne
09-13-2016, 05:40 PM
on cnn site now also.... (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/us/unc-rape-allegations/index.html)



A misdemeanor charge was issued Tuesday against athlete Allen Artis on allegations of sexual battery and assault on a female, according to prosecutors and Robinson's attorney.
In North Carolina, anyone can go before a magistrate and swear to criminal acts that happened against them and the magistrate determines if there is enough evidence to go forward. Warrants issued this way can only be at the misdemeanor level; felonies must be brought by the DA's office.....

Artis, will not have to file a plea but will now be served and have to appear in court for bond to be set, according to Woodall. This has not happened yet.

cato
09-13-2016, 05:47 PM
on cnn site now also... (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/us/unc-rape-allegations/index.html)

And the World Wide Leader weighs in:

Olympic Fan
09-13-2016, 05:55 PM
Not to prejudge this story, but I REALLY want to hear the interview that Robinson refers to between investigators and the players in question. I would hope the N&0 or so other media outlet files a Freedom of Information request. However, I'd be surprised if this is not a privileged communication.

Considering UNC's history of mishandling sexual assault charges from coeds, this has the stink what went on at Baylor and got Ken Starr, Art Briles and the AD fired ... just saying Holt, Cunningham and Fedora better be VERY careful here.

BigWayne
09-13-2016, 05:56 PM
Artis is feeling the heat now. Deleted his twitter account. Wonder what was on there back in February?
Google (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:d9ZcQVlezjkJ:https://twitter.com/aartis_2+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) has it cached, but just the recent stuff.

BigWayne
09-13-2016, 06:00 PM
:mad: Guess where this genius ADA went to school?

Per his LinkedIn profile:

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
BA, Political Science, 2000
Activities and Societies: Order of the Golden Fleece, Order of the Old Well, University of North Carolina Association of Student Governments, Granville Towers Resident Assistant

Full on UNC Athletic Supporter: https://twitter.com/uncnieman
Wonder if he will get any tweet heat from that ill advised comment.

cato
09-13-2016, 06:11 PM
Not to prejudge this story, but I REALLY want to hear the interview that Robinson refers to between investigators and the players in question. I would hope the N&0 or so other media outlet files a Freedom of Information request. However, I'd be surprised if this is not a privileged communication.

Considering UNC's history of mishandling sexual assault charges from coeds, this has the stink what went on at Baylor and got Ken Starr, Art Briles and the AD fired ... just saying Holt, Cunningham and Fedora better be VERY careful here.

Out of curiosity, what would the privilege be? It could not be a confidential attorney client communication, even if he had an attorney present, since it would not be confidential.

richardjackson199
09-13-2016, 06:25 PM
I didn't realize UNC was already facing a pending federal complaint by former students and an administrator over the mishandling of sexual assault cases.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article101556507.html#storylink=cpy

Lack of Institutional Control

Olympic Fan
09-13-2016, 07:30 PM
This story is expanding quickly, now that it's in the public spotlight.

A WTVD reporter (who used to be a UNC cheerleader) just tweeted that the police never processed the victim's rape kit.

And saw a photo (can't link) that shows the victim documenting her injuries -- she ha a ugly bruise on her neck.

I was just told that the player was suspended -- why now, seven months after the rape was reported? What changed -- other than the cover-up blew up.

dukelifer
09-13-2016, 08:04 PM
This story is expanding quickly, now that it's in the public spotlight.

A WTVD reporter (who used to be a UNC cheerleader) just tweeted that the police never processed the victim's rape kit.

And saw a photo (can't link) that shows the victim documenting her injuries -- she ha a ugly bruise on her neck.

I was just told that the player was suspended -- why now, seven months after the rape was reported? What changed -- other than the cover-up blew up.

UNC better figure this all out- clearly lots of issues there. NC and now its related institutions are getting hammered in the national press these days.

JetpackJesus
09-13-2016, 08:14 PM
Not to prejudge this story, but I REALLY want to hear the interview that Robinson refers to between investigators and the players in question. I would hope the N&0 or so other media outlet files a Freedom of Information request. However, I'd be surprised if this is not a privileged communication.

Considering UNC's history of mishandling sexual assault charges from coeds, this has the stink what went on at Baylor and got Ken Starr, Art Briles and the AD fired ... just saying Holt, Cunningham and Fedora better be VERY careful here.

From the story I linked to in an earlier post:

Robinson's attorney said she is unable to give transcripts or recordings of the interview because, like all other evidence submitted to the university, it is prohibited from release until the investigation is completed.
I don't know if this is accurate, but it sounds like UNC can put off responding to a FOIA request while the investigation is ongoing. After all, if there's a way to delay responding to something, UNC's legal department knows how to exploit it.

weezie
09-13-2016, 08:37 PM
...Order of the Golden Fleece, Order of the Old Well... Granville Towers Resident Assistant

This guy! That order of the mothy sheep rug thing always makes me think of Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons...

chrishoke
09-13-2016, 08:51 PM
This story is expanding quickly, now that it's in the public spotlight.

A WTVD reporter (who used to be a UNC cheerleader) just tweeted that the police never processed the victim's rape kit.

And saw a photo (can't link) that shows the victim documenting her injuries -- she ha a ugly bruise on her neck.

I was just told that the player was suspended -- why now, seven months after the rape was reported? What changed -- other than the cover-up blew up.


"Team officials said Artis has been suspended indefinitely, which is standard procedure for an athlete facing a misdemeanor.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/student-criticizes-unc-ch-for-handling-of-rape-allegation/16011391/#Uzv0CWFo3akZT10Q.99

cato
09-13-2016, 09:05 PM
Judgment must be reserved. But I am struck by the young woman going public with specific allegations, seated next to her father. I put that in the credibility column.

I want to know what the accused have to say.

Tripping William
09-13-2016, 09:13 PM
Judgment must be reserved. But I am struck by the young woman going public with specific allegations, seated next to her father. I put that in the credibility column.

I want to know what the accused have to say.

Yep. If any fan base should be resisting a rush to judgment, it should be Duke's. Mike Nifong and all. But law enforcement, the DA's office, and the UNC administration better have had all their ducks in a row or this could unravel on them pretty quickly.

Joe Friday: The facts, ma'am; just the facts.

chrishoke
09-13-2016, 09:37 PM
Noelle Talley, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Justice, said local authorities never requested that the rape kit in the case be examined. A toxicology analysis on Robinson's blood was the only request made of the crime lab, Talley said.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/student-criticizes-unc-ch-for-handling-of-rape-allegation/16011391/#Uzv0CWFo3akZT10Q.99

oldnavy
09-13-2016, 09:50 PM
Yep. If any fan base should be resisting a rush to judgment, it should be Duke's. Mike Nifong and all. But law enforcement, the DA's office, and the UNC administration better have had all their ducks in a row or this could unravel on them pretty quickly.

Joe Friday: The facts, ma'am; just the facts.

Agree, but this is the exact opposite situation... here the authorities seem to be ignoring a credible report.

Will this be the crack in the dam?

UNC is.... what's the word???? Oh yea! DEPLORABLE!

BigWayne
09-13-2016, 10:22 PM
Yep. If any fan base should be resisting a rush to judgment, it should be Duke's. Mike Nifong and all. But law enforcement, the DA's office, and the UNC administration better have had all their ducks in a row or this could unravel on them pretty quickly.

Joe Friday: The facts, ma'am; just the facts.

Completely agree about a rush to judgement. The thing that I think warrants attention first, is not so much the actual guilt or innocence or Artis, but the improper handling of the case by UNC and the DA. Not unlike the athletic eligibility scandal, UNC's solution to their issues with sexual assault was institution of "reforms" that consisted of a lot of new policies. From what is alleged, it seems these policies were not followed in this case, which should not be a surprise to anyone that has been paying attention to how UNC handles negative events related to their athletics department.

While we are seeing statements of uncertainty about the eventual conclusion of the case, I don't see UNC or the DA coming out and trying to claim they did everything according to the book. I think there is a fair bit of smoke there to look into.

chrishoke
09-13-2016, 10:44 PM
If you don't even submit the rape kit for testing, how can the DA still claim that the investigation is still ongoing and charges are still being considered?

PackMan97
09-13-2016, 11:26 PM
Player has been suspended once the Girl went public. Not a good luck for UNC.

http://wncn.com/2016/09/13/unc-student-says-rape-investigation-ineffective/

martydoesntfoul
09-13-2016, 11:55 PM
The story has exploded: CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, Daily Beast, etc. This from the NY Post: "A University of North Carolina student is the latest alleged rape victim to accuse her sports-mad school of putting its football players above the law."

Horrifying. Just horrifying. If it turns out this was not properly investigated, as the victim alleges, cesspool doesn't even begin to describe the disgrace of this once-proud institution.

martydoesntfoul
09-14-2016, 12:19 AM
So I just stumbled upon this article from April 2014. Highly disturbing to say the least, and yet another example of UNC lawyering up to protect the institution at the expense of the students it serves. smh

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/rape-victims-dont-trust-the-fixers-colleges-hire-to-help-the?utm_term=.tpZB8DjOKK#.wdzqAbVNGG

In a 2013 profile, The American Lawyer called Smith a “guru for colleges and universities looking to reform sexual assault culture on campus” who helped institutions “avoid the courtroom” by conducting investigations and advising administrators on how to comply with gender equity law Title IX and the Clery Act, which requires schools to accurately report campus violence. The article also called Smith “part of the scandal cleanup crew” for her most “high-profile engagements,” including Occidental College, Amherst College, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and the University of California at Berkeley, all schools currently under investigation by the United States Department of Education for allegedly violating federal law regarding on-campus sexual assault.

BD80
09-14-2016, 06:46 AM
How long before unc jumps on this bandwagon:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17542961/mike-leach-accuses-pullman-police-media-targeting-washington-state-football-players

"Our football players are the victims here!"

Merlindevildog91
09-14-2016, 07:37 AM
One explanation for not sending off the rape kit is that the defendant admitted sexual behavior but said it was consensual. The thought is that there is no reason to test for the presence of semen if the party that left it, admits that he did.

Trying very hard not to jump to conclusions, but as a woman and a prosecuting attorney I am finding that very difficult.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-14-2016, 10:03 AM
Could we break this conversation into a separate thread? Seems like a very different topic than the faux classes debacle, and I see them as deserving two different lines of discussion. Also, personally, I see a vast difference between cheating the NCAA and alledgedly covering up a sexual assault. One is worthy of jokes and poking fun and eye rolling, while the other is definitely not.

My two cents.

DukePA
09-14-2016, 10:05 AM
FSU? Jameis Winston, anyone? Deja vu all over again.

BLPOG
09-14-2016, 10:18 AM
Could we break this conversation into a separate thread? Seems like a very different topic than the faux classes debacle, and I see them as deserving two different lines of discussion. Also, personally, I see a vast difference between cheating the NCAA and alledgedly covering up a sexual assault. One is worthy of jokes and poking fun and eye rolling, while the other is definitely not.

My two cents.

Agreed.

PackMan97
09-14-2016, 11:13 AM
Could we break this conversation into a separate thread? Seems like a very different topic than the faux classes debacle, and I see them as deserving two different lines of discussion. Also, personally, I see a vast difference between cheating the NCAA and alledgedly covering up a sexual assault. One is worthy of jokes and poking fun and eye rolling, while the other is definitely not.

My two cents.

I certainly see your point and would have no problem. I posted here instead of starting a new thread, because indeed, the thread title is entirely appropriate.

I look at this along the same lines I look at the entire culture of corruption over in Chapel Hill. Whether it is....
* Taking advantage of athletes by providing them a worthless education
* Coverup up hazing and assault of a walkon that is eventually settled for $750k
* Retaliating against a whistleblower before settling with them for $350k
* Covering up the criminal misdeeds of third string football players to protect the brand.

At the end of the day it's all part of the same culture, one that elevates athletics above common, human decency. Carolina and those that run it simply do not care about anything beyond the wins. If an athletic department ever needed to be shutdown, this is it. These latest charges only serve to put an exclamation point on the entirity of the scandals that have seen UNC recieve no appreciable punishment for ANYTHING that has happened.

sagegrouse
09-14-2016, 11:15 AM
Could we break this conversation into a separate thread? Seems like a very different topic than the faux classes debacle, and I see them as deserving two different lines of discussion. Also, personally, I see a vast difference between cheating the NCAA and alledgedly covering up a sexual assault. One is worthy of jokes and poking fun and eye rolling, while the other is definitely not.

My two cents.


I certainly see your point and would have no problem. I posted here instead of starting a new thread, because indeed, the thread title is entirely appropriate.

I look at this along the same lines I look at the entire culture of corruption over in Chapel Hill. Whether it is...
* Taking advantage of athletes by providing them a worthless education
* Coverup up hazing and assault of a walkon that is eventually settled for $750k
* Retaliating against a whistleblower before settling with them for $350k
* Covering up the criminal misdeeds of third string football players to protect the brand.

At the end of the day it's all part of the same culture, one that elevates athletics above common, human decency. Carolina and those that run it simply do not care about anything beyond the wins. If an athletic department ever needed to be shutdown, this is it. These latest charges only serve to put an exclamation point on the entirity of the scandals that have seen UNC recieve no appreciable punishment for ANYTHING that has happened.

Yep. It's a cesspool over there -- might as well put it all together.

martydoesntfoul
09-14-2016, 11:48 AM
I certainly see your point and would have no problem. I posted here instead of starting a new thread, because indeed, the thread title is entirely appropriate.

I look at this along the same lines I look at the entire culture of corruption over in Chapel Hill. Whether it is...
* Taking advantage of athletes by providing them a worthless education
* Coverup up hazing and assault of a walkon that is eventually settled for $750k
* Retaliating against a whistleblower before settling with them for $350k
* Covering up the criminal misdeeds of third string football players to protect the brand.

At the end of the day it's all part of the same culture, one that elevates athletics above common, human decency. Carolina and those that run it simply do not care about anything beyond the wins. If an athletic department ever needed to be shutdown, this is it. These latest charges only serve to put an exclamation point on the entirity of the scandals that have seen UNC recieve no appreciable punishment for ANYTHING that has happened.

"...it's all part of the same culture, one that elevates athletics above common, human decency..." And might I add student health and safety and the core mission of any institution of higher learning.

I see nothing in this thread that points to joking or poking fun. Recall it began in response to the "hiring" of a coach accused of abusing his players. If on the other hand the title was changed to Cesspool, I'd have no problem with it.

martydoesntfoul
09-14-2016, 02:33 PM
Artis just turned himself in...

BigWayne
09-14-2016, 03:12 PM
Reminder that at least some of the rest of the world gets it...In the ESPN weekly article on chances for teams to get to the CFP:


Florida State Seminoles
Trending: EVEN

FCS member Charleston Southern suspended 14 players from playing in its 52-8 loss at FSU because they improperly purchased school supplies from the bookstore. North Carolina suspended, well, never mind.

buddy
09-14-2016, 05:42 PM
One explanation for not sending off the rape kit is that the defendant admitted sexual behavior but said it was consensual. The thought is that there is no reason to test for the presence of semen if the party that left it, admits that he did.

Trying very hard not to jump to conclusions, but as a woman and a prosecuting attorney I am finding that very difficult.

I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but it would seem to me to be necessary to process the rape kit, because unless the defendant confesses, it would still be necessary to prove that it was his DNA and that in fact a crime occurred. Now I expect he would testify (he said, she said case) but before his lawyer would have to put up a defense DNA. Unless he made a properly Mirandized and admissible statement, just her testimony alone would, I think be insufficient.

Pghdukie
09-14-2016, 06:23 PM
I would be curious to ask if any photos were takin when female student was examined at the hospital. Up thread states there were marks on her neck. And why rape kit wasn't processed is going to be someone's downfall.

richardjackson199
09-14-2016, 06:25 PM
I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but it would seem to me to be necessary to process the rape kit, because unless the defendant confesses, it would still be necessary to prove that it was his DNA and that in fact a crime occurred. Now I expect he would testify (he said, she said case) but before his lawyer would have to put up a defense DNA. Unless he made a properly Mirandized and admissible statement, just her testimony alone would, I think be insufficient.

I am not a lawyer either. The victim's lawyer said something like it's not necessary to waste valuable SBI state crime lab resources processing the full rape kit (I assume to look for his DNA) since he admitted to the sexual contact with the student.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-athlete-linked-to-alleged-rape-turns-himself-in/1511072/

What seemed to be unclear to her lawyer and is unclear to me is why the DA's office needed the blood alcohol and toxicology results (which have taken such significant delay despite her attorney's request to expedite these results if required). Of course the UNC Title IX definition of rape seems to make these tox results irrelevant, as her lawyer argued in her original press conference. The photo of severe neck bruising and reported evidence of trauma to the genitals would seem like some evidence to me.

In the ER we're able to get blood alcohol results within hours, and faster than that if we call the lab and ask for them to be expedited. Of course blood alcohol levels decrease significantly over time as the alcohol is metabolized by the body. So it would really depend on what time this lab was collected after her last drink, in addition to of course how much she had to drink. I could imagine significant time passing before the lab was taken in the hospital given the sequence of events, unless she literally went straight to the hospital for the lab draw after the incident (and maybe she did). So when the lab comes back, I would not be surprised if the blood alcohol is much lower than it was when the alleged incident occurred. But given this alcohol metabolism over hours, I would not expect that to mean that she was not heavily intoxicated with a much higher blood alcohol during the alleged incident.

Here also is the DA disputing that they had closed the case - stating that in his 27 years he'd never had a case he was investigating as felony be changed by the victim/lawyer to a misdemeanor that he would then need to address as such. I can certainly see why they did given the delays. I'm also trying not to rush to judgment. But it will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.wral.com/unc-football-player-turns-himself-in-on-sexual-battery-assault-warrants/16013779/

bedeviled
09-14-2016, 10:46 PM
But given this alcohol metabolism over hours, I would not expect that to mean that she was not heavily intoxicated with a much higher blood alcohol during the alleged incidentThat made me recall when I lost faith in blood alcohol level expectations (in the other direction). I saw a female undergrad in the UNC ED with a BAC of 435. She was not only alert and cogent but also made clever jokes. She adjusted my BAC expectations further, ~1.5 months later, when we crossed paths in a clinic and she remembered me from the ED. I'm dumbfounded every time I think about it.

oldnavy
09-15-2016, 06:52 AM
I am not a lawyer either. The victim's lawyer said something like it's not necessary to waste valuable SBI state crime lab resources processing the full rape kit (I assume to look for his DNA) since he admitted to the sexual contact with the student.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-athlete-linked-to-alleged-rape-turns-himself-in/1511072/

What seemed to be unclear to her lawyer and is unclear to me is why the DA's office needed the blood alcohol and toxicology results (which have taken such significant delay despite her attorney's request to expedite these results if required). Of course the UNC Title IX definition of rape seems to make these tox results irrelevant, as her lawyer argued in her original press conference. The photo of severe neck bruising and reported evidence of trauma to the genitals would seem like some evidence to me.

In the ER we're able to get blood alcohol results within hours, and faster than that if we call the lab and ask for them to be expedited. Of course blood alcohol levels decrease significantly over time as the alcohol is metabolized by the body. So it would really depend on what time this lab was collected after her last drink, in addition to of course how much she had to drink. I could imagine significant time passing before the lab was taken in the hospital given the sequence of events, unless she literally went straight to the hospital for the lab draw after the incident (and maybe she did). So when the lab comes back, I would not be surprised if the blood alcohol is much lower than it was when the alleged incident occurred. But given this alcohol metabolism over hours, I would not expect that to mean that she was not heavily intoxicated with a much higher blood alcohol during the alleged incident.

Here also is the DA disputing that they had closed the case - stating that in his 27 years he'd never had a case he was investigating as felony be changed by the victim/lawyer to a misdemeanor that he would then need to address as such. I can certainly see why they did given the delays. I'm also trying not to rush to judgment. But it will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.wral.com/unc-football-player-turns-himself-in-on-sexual-battery-assault-warrants/16013779/

If she reported this as rape back in February, then the DPS/DA have had over 6 months to investigate the charge. What could possibly take 6 months to investigate?

Obviously I have never investigated a rape charge, but I am having a really hard time envisioning what could possibly take so long.

Could someone that has been involved in the investigation of such a case explain what goes into it, and why it would linger for 6+ months?

Merlindevildog91
09-15-2016, 10:15 AM
Actually, there is no reason law enforcement couldn't get the hospital toxicology report for its perusal. Criminal investigation is an exception for HIPAA. There may be chain of custody issues for court, but for investigation purposes the hospital test is all they should need.

BD80
09-15-2016, 10:33 AM
That made me recall when I lost faith in blood alcohol level expectations (in the other direction). I saw a female undergrad in the UNC ED with a BAC of 435. She was not only alert and cogent but also made clever jokes. She adjusted my BAC expectations further, ~1.5 months later, when we crossed paths in a clinic and she remembered me from the ED. I'm dumbfounded every time I think about it.

Must've been Irish

Lid
09-15-2016, 10:35 AM
What seemed to be unclear to her lawyer and is unclear to me is why the DA's office needed the blood alcohol and toxicology results ...
This.

The only reason I can guess for why they need these results is to argue that she couldn't give consent if impaired. Which doesn't seem to be the route the authorities were going *if* statements from the student's lawyer are true (http://www.wral.com/student-criticizes-unc-ch-for-handling-of-rape-allegation/16011391/).


She said the District Attorney's Office also took the stance during the investigation that, because Robinson had been drinking the night of the alleged assault but wasn't unconscious at the time, authorities couldn't file a rape charge.

"Unconsciousness is rape. Black-out drunk is not rape," she said an investigator for the District Attorney's Office told her.

If there really is an Aug. 2 email stating they didn't plan to pursue charges, that would seem to put to rest the assertions of the DA's office.

BigWayne
09-15-2016, 11:42 AM
BTW - Artis was there when Malik Simmons got arrested last year..... http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?36102-UNC-Athletics-Scandal-Roy-Hat-lying-to-recruits&p=820086#post820086

richardjackson199
09-15-2016, 02:26 PM
Toward the bottom of this story is the photo showing pretty extensive bruising.

Larry, as usual, has nothing to say. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

UNC students writing a letter to Folt.

Artis due back in court 9/29.

http://abc11.com/news/fedora-mum;-unc-students-get-vocal-over-alleged-rape/1512220/

ancienteagle
09-15-2016, 02:31 PM
The story has exploded: CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, Daily Beast, etc. This from the NY Post: "A University of North Carolina student is the latest alleged rape victim to accuse her sports-mad school of putting its football players above the law."

Horrifying. Just horrifying. If it turns out this was not properly investigated, as the victim alleges, cesspool doesn't even begin to describe the disgrace of this once-proud institution.

Hark! The sound of Tar Heel voices
Cov'ring up a crime -
Coach, he needs his big linebacker
Victims, wait in line.

oldnavy
09-15-2016, 02:44 PM
Toward the bottom of this story is the photo showing pretty extensive bruising.

Larry, as usual, has nothing to say. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

UNC students writing a letter to Folt.

Artis due back in court 9/29.

http://abc11.com/news/fedora-mum;-unc-students-get-vocal-over-alleged-rape/1512220/

Rumored that Larry actually said, that in a couple of weeks this will all blow over....

Oh wait, that was on the "hiring" of the abusive football coach... my bad.

budwom
09-15-2016, 04:37 PM
I can't say I know what the student body is up to over there, but aren't the female students incensed (as the male students should be as well)?
This should be a pretty big deal on campus....is it?

PackMan97
09-16-2016, 08:55 AM
I can't say I know what the student body is up to over there, but aren't the female students incensed (as the male students should be as well)?
This should be a pretty big deal on campus...is it?

It will only be a big deal on campus if it negatively affects recruiting.

oldnavy
09-16-2016, 09:00 AM
It will only be a big deal on campus if it negatively affects recruiting.

Are you kidding?

UNC will spin this as a positive.

Come to UNC, act in anyway you like do whatever you want. We will sweep all your criminal activities under the rug, until we get caught, then we will just suspend you for a while until it all blows over.

The Carolina Way!

hallcity
09-16-2016, 09:10 AM
I guess most people have moved on from UNC's phony classes scandal but Dan Kane hasn't. He's got a new piece in the N&O today (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/special-reports/carolinas-blind-side/article101978907.html)and another one is coming on Sunday. I don't know how the NCAA can give UNC just a wrist slap, even though it looks like that's where things are heading. UNC's leaders willfully looked the other way for years.

Merlindevildog91
09-16-2016, 10:15 AM
Toward the bottom of this story is the photo showing pretty extensive bruising.

Larry, as usual, has nothing to say. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

UNC students writing a letter to Folt.

Artis due back in court 9/29.

http://abc11.com/news/fedora-mum;-unc-students-get-vocal-over-alleged-rape/1512220/

Wow. Just wow.

There is no way in **** a woman with that kind of bruising on her throat and claiming to be raped should have to swear out a misdemeanor warrant.

sammy3469
09-16-2016, 10:21 AM
I guess most people have moved on from UNC's phony classes scandal but Dan Kane hasn't. He's got a new piece in the N&O today (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/special-reports/carolinas-blind-side/article101978907.html)and another one is coming on Sunday. I don't know how the NCAA can give UNC just a wrist slap, even though it looks like that's where things are heading. UNC's leaders willfully looked the other way for years.

This is good inside baseball info. My guess is both the NCAA and UNC are going to look horrible by the time his series is done. Some real quality reporting here.

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2016, 11:08 AM
Since the NCAA hasn't handed down any penalties yet, any chance that this (or rather ANOTHER) black mark on The Carolina Way affects judgement? For all the times UNC keeps saying "we are doing everything right, now", they keep showing they are doing anything but. (Sweeping reports of sexual assault under the rug, hiring "volunteer" coaches with a history of abuse, etc.)

richardjackson199
09-16-2016, 11:24 AM
In this article the victim's lawyer further elaborates on how UNC and the investigators violated and botched their title IX policy:

http://abc11.com/news/alleged-rape-victim-uncs-title-ix-office-failed-her/1513667/

To me, UNC really seems to think they don't have to follow their own rules when athletes are involved. Or they just make up the rules as they go along.

Wouldn't delaying the case increase the victim's legal fees (assuming her lawyer would charge her by the hour)? Wouldn't delaying it increase the likelihood that the victim would get frustrated and just give up on pursuing it? Obviously it didn't work out that way, but one possibility is that is what they were expecting.

Also, would these delays help this information not come out while their potential NCAA hoops title run was in progress last spring? And then also delay this while steps were moving forward in their NCAA athletic eligibility/"academic" scandal. I realize those things aren't directly related - but more bad news for UNC athletics doesn't look good while those things are happening.

I don't know what happened in this case on the night of Feb. 14, 2016. But regardless, UNC Athletics Audacity knows no bounds and they are an amoral cesspool. The more they try to cover that cesspool up, the more it rots, and the worse the odor.

rasputin
09-16-2016, 11:32 AM
In this article the victim's lawyer further elaborates on how UNC and the investigators violated and botched their title IX policy:

http://abc11.com/news/alleged-rape-victim-uncs-title-ix-office-failed-her/1513667/

To me, UNC really seems to think they don't have to follow their own rules when athletes are involved. Or they just make up the rules as they go along.

Wouldn't delaying the case increase the victim's legal fees (assuming her lawyer would charge her by the hour)? Wouldn't delaying it increase the likelihood that the victim would get frustrated and just give up on pursuing it? Obviously it didn't work out that way, but one possibility is that is what they were expecting.

Also, would these delays help this information not come out while their potential NCAA hoops title run was in progress last spring? And then also delay this while steps were moving forward in their NCAA athletic eligibility/"academic" scandal. I realize those things aren't directly related - but more bad news for UNC athletics doesn't look good while those things are happening.

I don't know what happened in this case on the night of Feb. 14, 2016. But regardless, UNC Athletics Audacity knows no bounds and they are an amoral cesspool. The more they try to cover that cesspool up, the more it rots, and the worse the odor.

I would be very surprised if the victim is in fact paying her lawyer by the hour.

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2016, 12:42 PM
In this article the victim's lawyer further elaborates on how UNC and the investigators violated and botched their title IX policy:

http://abc11.com/news/alleged-rape-victim-uncs-title-ix-office-failed-her/1513667/

To me, UNC really seems to think they don't have to follow their own rules when athletes are involved. Or they just make up the rules as they go along.

Wouldn't delaying the case increase the victim's legal fees (assuming her lawyer would charge her by the hour)? Wouldn't delaying it increase the likelihood that the victim would get frustrated and just give up on pursuing it? Obviously it didn't work out that way, but one possibility is that is what they were expecting.

Also, would these delays help this information not come out while their potential NCAA hoops title run was in progress last spring? And then also delay this while steps were moving forward in their NCAA athletic eligibility/"academic" scandal. I realize those things aren't directly related - but more bad news for UNC athletics doesn't look good while those things are happening.

I don't know what happened in this case on the night of Feb. 14, 2016. But regardless, UNC Athletics Audacity knows no bounds and they are an amoral cesspool. The more they try to cover that cesspool up, the more it rots, and the worse the odor.

Delay = UNC strategy; sadly it has worked, so why change? Damn the consequences and the real people involved. Grrrrr.

Pghdukie
09-16-2016, 02:56 PM
Don't blame Artist too harshly. He thought he was at Louisville. Probably an honest mistake. NOT !

richardjackson199
09-16-2016, 03:23 PM
Well one reason to request the toxicology report is if the victim believes she was drugged before the alleged incident:

http://www.wral.com/search-warrants-unc-student-suspects-she-was-drugged-before-alleged-rape/16020086/

However, rape drugs like Rohypnol and GHB are not normally detectected in toxicology results, are quickly metabolized, and are hard to detect overall. If a drug is used in cases of rape, that drug is usually alcohol. Any rape is detestable. But if a date rape drug was found to be used by a perpetrator, we're talking felony punishable up to 20 years in jail. I would not expect anything like that to be found on toxicology, but this remains quite interesting. I wonder if anything was found from the text messages from that night.

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2016, 03:34 PM
Don't blame Artist too harshly. He thought he was at Louisville. Probably an honest mistake. NOT !
It's ARTIS!!!

Artists don't make mistakes. At least not that you know about, we paint over them.

richardjackson199
09-16-2016, 03:37 PM
It's ARTIS!!!

Artists don't make mistakes. At least not that you know about, we paint over them.

You're saying you cover them up.

You must have taken The Art of Artful Art 101 (a paper class independent study) at UNC summer school

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2016, 03:49 PM
You're saying you cover them up.

You must have taken The Art of Artful Art 101 (a paper class independent study) at UNC summer school

I took it online. (Although it was pre-internet days, and I still got an A.)

PSurprise
09-16-2016, 03:59 PM
You're saying you cover them up.

You must have taken The Art of Artful Art 101 (a paper class independent study) at UNC summer school

It was in Swahili IIRC.

richardjackson199
09-16-2016, 09:57 PM
New interviews with victim and her father. UNC football players supporting Artis on social media. More criticism of UNC's handling of the case:

http://abc11.com/news/alleged-rape-victim-dad-describe-frustration-with-unc/1515022/

CameronBlue
09-17-2016, 01:25 AM
I took it online. (Although it was pre-internet days, and I still got an A.)

They offer the same course Saturday mornings at Lowes. I hear CB&B is a whiz with one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291840585188?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true.

madscavenger
09-17-2016, 07:39 AM
i think i'm going to need a stronger epithet. CHEATING was merely seminal.

ipatent
09-17-2016, 08:12 AM
UNC football has had its share of off the field problems over the years, like Miami in its heydey but without the rankings and wins. Surprised it is tolerated, as much as some of us hate to admit it UNC is a pretty good school.

Wahoo2000
09-17-2016, 02:15 PM
There's a reason this case was all but dropped early on, and it's not corruption. Police and prosecutors knew this wasn't a winnable case. I'm not going to say whether that's because they felt he was innocent, or whether they just felt they had no chance to win based on other factors that aren't public knowledge.

If this was a cover-up situation, the coach would certainly would have been aware of the incident.

Olympic Fan
09-17-2016, 02:51 PM
There's a reason this case was all but dropped early on, and it's not corruption. Police and prosecutors knew this wasn't a winnable case. I'm not going to say whether that's because they felt he was innocent, or whether they just felt they had no chance to win based on other factors that aren't public knowledge.

If this was a cover-up situation, the coach would certainly would have been aware of the incident.

You may be right ... but there is at least some evidence that you are wrong.

The evidence is the taped interview with the suspect by the police. If the version of the interview reported by the victim (and she DID get to hear the interview) is correct, then it is clear that the police never had any intention of taking the charge seriously. That's why I keep saying that we need to hear that interview -- we don't know the victim gave is an accurate account. But if she did, that's a MAJOR red flag. The quote from the assistant DA, suggesting that sex with a women who is "blackout drunk" is not rape, is another indication that the authorities mishandled the case.

Until that's cleared up, no way to absolve UNC or authorities. Plus, the assumption that the coach was not aware of the incident is BS. If you've ever been around a college football program (or basketball for that matter), the coaches almost always know what's going on -- but they work to maintain "deniability" (like Rick Pitino didn't know that his staff was hiring strippers for prospects; like Butch Davis and Roy Williams didn't know that many of their athletes were taking phony classes throughout their tenure). The entire practice of "deniability" has become so widespread that the NCAA changed is rules a few years ago to punish head coaches even without evidence of direct knowledge -- that's why Jim Boeheim and Larry Brown sat out games last season (and Pitino probably will; this season).

I don't know if the suspect did anything wrong or not. And I'm not sure that the authorities botched the case (although it looks bad). But I would be willing to bet serious money that Larry Fedora knew about this as soon as the UNC Title IX office was notified last spring (if not sooner ... it seems that most of the UNC team knew about it the night it happened).

PS Did anybody else see that last night during halftime of the Rice-Baylor game, the Rice band spelled out 'IX" ... maybe DUMB could do that.

richardjackson199
09-17-2016, 02:53 PM
There's a reason this case was all but dropped early on, and it's not corruption. Police and prosecutors knew this wasn't a winnable case. I'm not going to say whether that's because they felt he was innocent, or whether they just felt they had no chance to win based on other factors that aren't public knowledge.

If this was a cover-up situation, the coach would certainly would have been aware of the incident.

You sound like you know something to be making statements like this?

If the victim was found to be lying, she could face rather severe legal penalties as well. Also given that she chose to go public, she has to know that would be beyond embarrassing if she was found to be making this up.

Her lawyer also seemed pretty competent, and I would imagine she believes she has a potentially winnable case based on the facts - like the photo of severe neck bruising. Her father is also standing by the story. And nothing has come out yet that I've seen to adamantly dispute it.

I'm trying not to rush to judgment either way, but I'm asking what you can base statements like this on? (link?) Most of us on this board have seen enough to consider corruption at UNC as a possibility when major sport athletes are involved. We've also seen Duke lacrosse and the UVA Rolling stone fiasco. So far, this case looks pretty different to me than the former two, so we'll see.

At the UNC student protest last night, another sexual assault victim claims she was significantly mistreated by the UNC Title IX investigation process:

"Murray said she unwillingly left the university in 2014 after her attack. She said she's still battling the school legally in the way she said it handled her case.

"DPS and the Title IX office have consistently demonstrated victim blaming questioning tactics and that's a problem," said Murray.

http://abc11.com/news/hundreds-protest-uncs-handling-of-sexual-assault-cases/1515308/

richardjackson199
09-17-2016, 03:15 PM
More info in this link with comments by Folt. Her excuses sound pretty lame - we're getting double the number of assaults reported so they take longer to resolve, etc.

The short video at the top is great - an angry student yells "we need admins who care more about our safety than their own reputation!"

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article102373332.html

richardjackson199
09-17-2016, 03:27 PM
Sorry for multiple posts.

There is also more info in this link where the video includes an interview with the former UNC student who reports she was sexually assaulted in 2013 and is now suing UNC for their handling of her case. She says the recent case shows nothing has changed in how they handle these cases.

http://www.wral.com/unc-students-ask-for-more-support-for-sex-assault-victims/16021395/

Merlindevildog91
09-17-2016, 03:52 PM
There's a reason this case was all but dropped early on, and it's not corruption. Police and prosecutors knew this wasn't a winnable case. I'm not going to say whether that's because they felt he was innocent, or whether they just felt they had no chance to win based on other factors that aren't public knowledge.

If this was a cover-up situation, the coach would certainly would have been aware of the incident.

We don't know all the facts, to be sure, but as a prosecutor I have tried (and won) rape cases with less evidence than bruises on the victim's neck and a statement of consent by the defendant.

"Is it a winnable case?" isn't supposed to be the standard for a prosecutor. I have tried A LOT of cases that weren't all that winnable. Some I won, more I lost, and some I am still sick about, but the victims deserved their day in court.

PackMan97
09-17-2016, 05:40 PM
We don't know all the facts, to be sure, but as a prosecutor I have tried (and won) rape cases with less evidence than bruises on the victim's neck and a statement of consent by the defendant.

"Is it a winnable case?" isn't supposed to be the standard for a prosecutor. I have tried A LOT of cases that weren't all that winnable. Some I won, more I lost, and some I am still sick about, but the victims deserved their day in court.

Given that this is Chapel Hill and winning is in fact everything, there is no surprise that "winning" is all the DA cares about. On the field and in the court room. In this case, he gets two birds with one stone.

Merlindevildog91
09-19-2016, 12:33 PM
Completely off-topic and yet somehow apropos....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apH8ZqQgXL4&feature=youtu.be&t=1h9m40s

Yesterday's offertory anthem at Duke Chapel, sung in Swahili.

Wahoo2000
09-19-2016, 06:11 PM
We don't know all the facts, to be sure, but as a prosecutor I have tried (and won) rape cases with less evidence than bruises on the victim's neck and a statement of consent by the defendant.

"Is it a winnable case?" isn't supposed to be the standard for a prosecutor. I have tried A LOT of cases that weren't all that winnable. Some I won, more I lost, and some I am still sick about, but the victims deserved their day in court.

Let's call this a hypothetical: What if you were convinced your chances of winning a case were akin to the chances that BC wins the national title this year, or akin to hitting the powerball jackpot? Would you still waste the taxpayers money to give the victim his/her day in court?

If the guy is guilty, I hope the outrage generated by the story forces the prosecutor into proceeding, but I wouldn't expect much to come of it. Maybe if the player has a PD he could be intimidated/frightened into taking a plea. That attorney would have to be clueless though.

DukieInKansas
09-19-2016, 06:45 PM
Completely off-topic and yet somehow apropos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apH8ZqQgXL4&feature=youtu.be&t=1h9m40s

Yesterday's offertory anthem at Duke Chapel, sung in Swahili.

If I have sung that song, more than once at that, am I eligible for some credit hours from unc?

arnie
09-19-2016, 07:44 PM
If I have sung that song, more than once at that, am I eligible for some credit hours from unc?

You are, but credit hours from that school don't count toward the GED.

DukieInKansas
09-19-2016, 07:47 PM
If I have sung that song, more than once at that, am I eligible for some credit hours from unc?


You are, but credit hours from that school don't count toward the GED.

I was afraid they wouldn't be worth much - but maybe I can now claim alumni status and call them on the carpet. Never mind, I don't think I want the association.

DukieInKansas
09-19-2016, 07:52 PM
You are, but credit hours from that school don't count toward the GED.

If I could play a sport at a high level, would it count toward a graduate degree?

arnie
09-19-2016, 07:59 PM
If I could play a sport at a high level, would it count toward a graduate degree?

Yes, and you wouldn't hard to learn count to earn that MBA.

Merlindevildog91
09-19-2016, 08:05 PM
Let's call this a hypothetical: What if you were convinced your chances of winning a case were akin to the chances that BC wins the national title this year, or akin to hitting the powerball jackpot? Would you still waste the taxpayers money to give the victim his/her day in court?

If the guy is guilty, I hope the outrage generated by the story forces the prosecutor into proceeding, but I wouldn't expect much to come of it. Maybe if the player has a PD he could be intimidated/frightened into taking a plea. That attorney would have to be clueless though.

I have "wasted" taxpayer money on cases that I knew didn't have a snowball's chance in Galveston. There is an ENORMOUS difference between not going forward because there is no evidence(or the evidence is in favor of the defendant) and not going forward because the defendant is famous or notorious.

DukePA
09-19-2016, 09:06 PM
I have "wasted" taxpayer money on cases that I knew didn't have a snowball's chance in Galveston. There is an ENORMOUS difference between not going forward because there is no evidence(or the evidence is in favor of the defendant) and not going forward because the defendant is famous or notorious.

Exactly. Furthermore, if one of my relatives or friends is ever assaulted, I certainly hope the prosecutor doesn't decide it's a "waste of tax payer money" to proceed with the case.

DukieInKansas
09-20-2016, 10:45 AM
Let's call this a hypothetical: What if you were convinced your chances of winning a case were akin to the chances that BC wins the national title this year, or akin to hitting the powerball jackpot? Would you still waste the taxpayers money to give the victim his/her day in court?

If the guy is guilty, I hope the outrage generated by the story forces the prosecutor into proceeding, but I wouldn't expect much to come of it. Maybe if the player has a PD he could be intimidated/frightened into taking a plea. That attorney would have to be clueless though.

Sure as heck glad the prosecutor and police in the dark ages of my time at Duke didn't feel this way when a friend was raped. It took 2 trials and a lie detector to get the @#$Q@#%!%!@ to finally confess.

Olympic Fan
09-20-2016, 11:00 AM
Let's call this a hypothetical: What if you were convinced your chances of winning a case were akin to the chances that BC wins the national title this year, or akin to hitting the powerball jackpot? Would you still waste the taxpayers money to give the victim his/her day in court?

If the guy is guilty, I hope the outrage generated by the story forces the prosecutor into proceeding, but I wouldn't expect much to come of it. Maybe if the player has a PD he could be intimidated/frightened into taking a plea. That attorney would have to be clueless though.

Again, you miss the point.

Before you let the police and prosecutor off the hook, we have to examine the response to the allegation.

This young lady did everything right -- she immediately notified police of the rape and went straight to the hospital for a medical exam.

What did the police do?

We have evidence (not proof, but evidence) that the police didn't follow up on the claim seriously -- the victim claims that the police interview with the alleged rapist was a buddy-buddy laugh fest where the police joked around with the suspect and told him not to worry. I want that tape released ... if the victim's account is right (she got to hear it under Title IX rules), I would say that's serious evidence of police misconduct.

We have an assistant DA claiming that sex with a woman who is "blackout drunk" is not assault. We have dispute over whether the DA closed the case in August or has continued to investigate (what's going to change in the seven months since the assault was reported).

This may be nothing more than a he-said, she-said, but we do have photos of the bruises she suffered during the encounter.

Nobody in this thread is prejudging the guilt or innocence of the player in question ... our outrage is directed at the way this case was handled by the authorities (including the UNC Title IX office). There are SERIOUS questions to be answered.

richardjackson199
09-29-2016, 04:54 PM
December trial set for UNC Football player Allen Artis accused of raping fellow student:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17669030/december-trial-set-university-north-carolina-tarheels-player-accused-sexual-battery

This link includes a 10 minute interview with Artis where he assumes the bruises on her neck were hickeys. He says it was consensual. He says he did not know she had been drinking. The link also includes brief remarks from one of his lawyers criticizing Robinson's lawyer for telling the DA investigators how to do their job. Artis's lawyer indicates he passed a polygraph. Robinson's attorney isn't impressed.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article104902546.html

After the hearing this morning, Artis repeated 5 times: "I did not rape her" to media.

http://abc11.com/news/unc-player-i-did-not-rape-her-i-did-not-rape-her-/1532111/

It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

richardjackson199
09-29-2016, 05:15 PM
And this link includes different portions of a video interview with Artis and his family including some comments from his mom. The link also includes more comments from his attorneys, including that "they don't see how he can get a fair trial" under the circumstances the case unfolded:

"He’s been crucified for no reason," defense attorney Kerry Sutton said. "We have a mugshot of a young, black man athlete. So, how do you think people are feeling about this case right now? Of course, they’re condemning him in their minds."

Robinson told police that she thought she might have been drugged earlier that night, but Sutton said all of the witnesses in the case have said they didn't think Robinson appeared incapacitated.

"All of the witnesses in the case" said that? - that would be important if true.

http://www.wral.com/december-trial-set-in-alleged-unc-sex-assault/16059719/

BigWayne
09-29-2016, 05:22 PM
The 60 days for the NCAA to respond to the middle finger response UNC sent on August 1st runs out tomorrow.

Tom B.
09-29-2016, 06:03 PM
"He’s been crucified for no reason," defense attorney Kerry Sutton said. "We have a mugshot of a young, black man athlete. So, how do you think people are feeling about this case right now? Of course, they’re condemning him in their minds."

I thought that name sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it. Then it hit me -- she represented one of the Duke lacrosse players (I'm not sure which one -- it was one of the players who wasn't charged), and she appeared in the ESPN 30 For 30 documentary "Fantastic Lies."

Trinity_93
09-29-2016, 06:28 PM
I thought that name sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it. Then it hit me -- she represented one of the Duke lacrosse players (I'm not sure which one -- it was one of the players who wasn't charged), and she appeared in the ESPN 30 For 30 documentary "Fantastic Lies."

I seem to recall one of the defense lawyers in the lacrosse case (maybe Cheshire?) making a throwaway remark at some point that the lawyers on the defense team had honed the skills they used to help exonerate the Duke three by defending clients who were perhaps less than innocent.

hudlow
09-30-2016, 11:18 AM
The 60 days for the NCAA to respond to the middle finger response UNC sent on August 1st runs out tomorrow.


Could a late Friday afternoon news dump be expected today?

richardjackson199
09-30-2016, 02:26 PM
Through the story on the link, you can access a PDF of NCAA's letter to UNC (it's short enough to read)

Just a Procedural Meeting to discuss if NCAA COI has jurisdiction, statute of limitations, finality from 2012 infractions case, fairness (ha!), and whether NCAA COI can include the Wainstein report (they call it the Cadwalader report).

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article105170416.html

Because this meeting is just procedural is why NCAA says they didn't invite too many people from UNC. They do invite Chancellor Folt, Athletic Director Bubba, Lawyers, etc.