Premier League 2016-17 and Other Soccer Musings

[luburch]

10 days! We are just 10 days away from the start of the EPL! I figured it was time to start a new thread for the upcoming season to capture thoughts on this year's EPL season as well as any MLS, World Cup, etc. commentary. Lots of interesting story lines after a busy summer of the Euros and Copa America.

I did my usual pre-season predictions, I didn't spend as much time on them as normal, but here is how I see the table shaking out right now. There's still time left in the transfer market and injuries always can change the course of a season. Normally I would try to wait another week, but I'll be off the grid next week. I will undoubtedly be wayyyyy off. I think I had Leicester being relegated last year...:p

1. Manchester City - Pep's in charge and they've spent a lot of money.
2. United - I assume the Pgoba deal will go through, but I can't help but thing that they overpaid. Ibra up top, Mourinho as manager..intersting times
3. Arsenal - Not picking Arsenal to finish in the top 4 at this point would be stupid
4. Chelsea - Should bounce back nicely
5. West Ham - New stadium, more money.
6. Tottenham - Always will be Tottenham
7. Leicester - Champions League football, no Kante, new Expectations...a regression to the mean.
8. Liverpool - I like Klopp, but not sold on the team
9. Southampton
10. Everton
11. Stoke City
12. Swansea
13. Crystal Palace
14. AFC Bournemouth
15. Watford
16. Burnley
17. Middlesbrough
18. West Brom - Been uninspiring for a few years now
19. Sunderland - Eventually they will fall off the cliff. I think it's this year
20. Hull City - Worst team from the championship to make it up this year. Straight back down they go

I can't wait for another season. Beautiful game.

[OldPhiKap]

So -- who's going off at 500:1 this year? ;>)

[Tommac]

I'm also looking forward to Saturday and Sunday morning Premier League matches, especially after the weather turns cold and I don't feel guilty about ignoring outside chores.

[duke74]

10 days! We are just 10 days away from the start of the EPL! I figured it was time to start a new thread for the upcoming season to capture thoughts on this year's EPL season as well as any MLS, World Cup, etc. commentary. Lots of interesting story lines after a busy summer of the Euros and Copa America.

I did my usual pre-season predictions, I didn't spend as much time on them as normal, but here is how I see the table shaking out right now. There's still time left in the transfer market and injuries always can change the course of a season. Normally I would try to wait another week, but I'll be off the grid next week. I will undoubtedly be wayyyyy off. I think I had Leicester being relegated last year...:p

1. Manchester City - Pep's in charge and they've spent a lot of money.
2. United - I assume the Pgoba deal will go through, but I can't help but thing that they overpaid. Ibra up top, Mourinho as manager..intersting times
3. Arsenal - Not picking Arsenal to finish in the top 4 at this point would be stupid
4. Chelsea - Should bounce back nicely
5. West Ham - New stadium, more money.
6. Tottenham - Always will be Tottenham
7. Leicester - Champions League football, no Kante, new Expectations...a regression to the mean.
8. Liverpool - I like Klopp, but not sold on the team
9. Southampton
10. Everton
11. Stoke City
12. Swansea
13. Crystal Palace
14. AFC Bournemouth
15. Watford
16. Burnley
17. Middlesbrough
18. West Brom - Been uninspiring for a few years now
19. Sunderland - Eventually they will fall off the cliff. I think it's this year
20. Hull City - Worst team from the championship to make it up this year. Straight back down they go

I can't wait for another season. Beautiful game.

Not picking the Gunners to finish in the top 4 ANY year would be stupid. Unfortunately, that's about all we achieve.

I also root for Juve, so Euro100+ (if it goes through) for Pogba is a windfall...and Juve keeps signing players so that his loss will not be a big one. MU overpaying to redeem themselves from the mistake in losing him a few years ago?

[luburch]

Not picking the Gunners to finish in the top 4 ANY year would be stupid. Unfortunately, that's about all we achieve.

I also root for Juve, so Euro100+ (if it goes through) for Pogba is a windfall...and Juve keeps signing players so that his loss will not be a big one. MU overpaying to redeem themselves from the mistake in losing him a few years ago?

Well yes, you would think people have learned by now, but I saw a preview that had them finishing 5th the other day. :confused:

[Chicago 1995]

Not picking the Gunners to finish in the top 4 ANY year would be stupid. Unfortunately, that's about all we achieve.

I also root for Juve, so Euro100+ (if it goes through) for Pogba is a windfall...and Juve keeps signing players so that his loss will not be a big one. MU overpaying to redeem themselves from the mistake in losing him a few years ago?

It's a huge windfall for Juve, except for the baffling decision to spend 90+ on Gonzolo Higuian. Ugh.

Xhaka is a nice addition for Aresenal, and I really like Julian Draxler if they do pony up for him, but the lack of depth in the defense is concerning, IMO. And they could always use another striker....

City's spent a good bit of money, and they aren't done. Everything seems to be pointing to Stones coming in the next week. There's been a youth infusion for sure, and Pep is, well, Pep. I expect City to have something of a rocky start, but come on strong as Pep gets more comfortable with his squad and the players with the system.

United to me seems like it's kind of an all or nothing deal. It's either going to go smashingly, or Rooney won't fit in, Jose will go all Jose and start lashing out at the media and FA for conspiring to keep United down, and there won't be enough room for everyone to be happy. As a City backer, I'm hoping for the latter.

I like Tottenham as much as Arsenal and more than Chelsea, but I'd have liked to seen even more improvements in squad depth. That being said, I think counting on continued growth and improvement from that young squad makes a lot of sense.

Don't know what to think of Liverpool. Leicester is going to take a step back, but they'll still be good, IMO. Liked the additions of Kaputska, Musa and Mendys a lot.

[duke74]

It's a huge windfall for Juve, except for the baffling decision to spend 90+ on Gonzolo Higuian. Ugh.

Xhaka is a nice addition for Aresenal, and I really like Julian Draxler if they do pony up for him, but the lack of depth in the defense is concerning, IMO. And they could always use another striker...

City's spent a good bit of money, and they aren't done. Everything seems to be pointing to Stones coming in the next week. There's been a youth infusion for sure, and Pep is, well, Pep. I expect City to have something of a rocky start, but come on strong as Pep gets more comfortable with his squad and the players with the system.

United to me seems like it's kind of an all or nothing deal. It's either going to go smashingly, or Rooney won't fit in, Jose will go all Jose and start lashing out at the media and FA for conspiring to keep United down, and there won't be enough room for everyone to be happy. As a City backer, I'm hoping for the latter.

I like Tottenham as much as Arsenal and more than Chelsea, but I'd have liked to seen even more improvements in squad depth. That being said, I think counting on continued growth and improvement from that young squad makes a lot of sense. Don't know what to think of Liverpool. Leicester is going to take a step back, but they'll still be good, IMO. Liked the additions of Kaputska, Musa and Mendys a lot .

Agree...few thoughts:

1. Have never liked City. Nouveau riche to me with ME money (like Chelski with Russian oligarch funding). And have never forgotten the raid on the Gunners a few years ago (Nasri, Toure, etc)

2. The loss of Per hurts...who knows if Debauchy will be around as well. I'm on record as to liking Giroud, with all his constraints. But we do need help up top.

3. The Foxes seem to be keeping their stars, despite the Wenger's efforts (eg, Vardy).

[toughbuff1]

10 days! We are just 10 days away from the start of the EPL! I figured it was time to start a new thread for the upcoming season to capture thoughts on this year's EPL season as well as any MLS, World Cup, etc. commentary. Lots of interesting story lines after a busy summer of the Euros and Copa America.

I did my usual pre-season predictions, I didn't spend as much time on them as normal, but here is how I see the table shaking out right now. There's still time left in the transfer market and injuries always can change the course of a season. Normally I would try to wait another week, but I'll be off the grid next week. I will undoubtedly be wayyyyy off. I think I had Leicester being relegated last year...:p

1. Manchester City - Pep's in charge and they've spent a lot of money.
2. United - I assume the Pgoba deal will go through, but I can't help but thing that they overpaid. Ibra up top, Mourinho as manager..intersting times
3. Arsenal - Not picking Arsenal to finish in the top 4 at this point would be stupid
4. Chelsea - Should bounce back nicely
5. West Ham - New stadium, more money.
6. Tottenham - Always will be Tottenham
7. Leicester - Champions League football, no Kante, new Expectations...a regression to the mean.
8. Liverpool - I like Klopp, but not sold on the team
9. Southampton
10. Everton
11. Stoke City
12. Swansea
13. Crystal Palace
14. AFC Bournemouth
15. Watford
16. Burnley
17. Middlesbrough
18. West Brom - Been uninspiring for a few years now
19. Sunderland - Eventually they will fall off the cliff. I think it's this year
20. Hull City - Worst team from the championship to make it up this year. Straight back down they go

I can't wait for another season. Beautiful game.

1. Man. City - Just too much talent.
2. Arsenal - Always the bridesmaid
3. Man United - I really don't care for Mourinho as a person, but he will coach United into the Champion's League
4. Liverpool - Klopp's first full year, and no European football should help them focus on the premier League. (wishfull thinking probably YNWA)
5. Chelsea - Also no European football to worry about, but I had to drop one of the big four to put Liverpool in the CL.
6. Tottenham - They blew their shot at the title last year.
7. West Ham - Solid if not spectacular team.
8. Leicester City - A good core, but not a lot of depth. Champion's League will take away from some of their focus, and if Mahrez leaves they will be even lower.
9. Stoke - Solid middle of the pack team.
10. Everton - Ditto
11. Southampton - Ditto X 2
12. Bournemouth - If they can stay healthy I can see them fighting for a mid-table spot
13. Swansea - Again fighting to get to mid-table.
14. West Brom - hope to avoid a relegation battle, Pulis should help them avoid going down.
15. Crystal Palace - Very inconsistent
16. Middlesborough - Has a shot at staying up.
17. Watford - Will be in a real fight to avoid relegation.
18. Sunderland - This is the year they finally go down.
19. Burnley - Just not talented enough.
20. Hull - A club in chaos, they still don't have a manager. I would be surprised if they didn't finish dead last.

[Furniture]

I love the predictions. It will be interesting to see where everybody ends up. I haven't thought about it much or even followed what is going on. I do have some thoughts however.

I don't think the Gooners get in the top 4 this year.
Can Pep add the much needed spice to Man City that makes them a real team?
I think the Spurs will do well again or at least better than these predictions.
Liverpool? Who knows? I am hoping for them but it's going to be tough!
The Chosen one. Its going to be interesting and bloody entertaining as usual.
Chelski will be in the top 4.
My brother in law. Mad Leicester fan is going to be very disappointed. I agree. Reversion to the mean. Just above the relegation zone.

[luburch]

Had to miss the opening weekend due to travel. Not shocked by any result. Hard to completely gauge teams early with all of the summer competitions this year and the transfer window still open.

[OldPhiKap]

Man City - Stoke was pretty entertaining.

Liverpool next, first three games on the road because renovations to Anfield not done yet. I was just told they are adding 10,000 seats -- that's not right is it?

By the way, the reason I got interested in Liverpool stems from getting hooked on this song one late night in Wilson House. A really brief background taste at the beginning and at 2:10 but does not really kick in until the end:

https://youtu.be/TeyHPAdxuy0

(crowd singing "Never Walk Alone")

[Chicago 1995]

City seems to be catching on to what Pep wants. Still, lots of development to come with Sane and Gundogan coming after the break, and with the expected addition of Claudio Bravo to give us more of a ball-playing GK, like Pep really wants. The early Manchester Derby will be particularly interesting given the starts of the Red and the Blues

[OldPhiKap]

Well, Burnley not wasting any time.

[OldPhiKap]

And again.

[burnspbesq]

After watching young Mason Holgate for two matches, it's not hard to understand why Koeman thought the club could afford to sell Stones. The other newcomers, Bolasie and Gueye, look like they can both help a lot. Feeling cautiously optimistic about Everton contending for a Europa League slot.

[luburch]

Really thought Chelsea were going to drop points to Watford and Spurs to Palace. Should not have got my hopes up. I think City may end up running away with the league sooner rather than later.

[luburch]

Already the international break :(

City have looked really impressive so far. United and Chelsea a bit fortunate to be on 9 points. Transfer window is closing soon. Don't see any major shakeups happening.

[OldPhiKap]

Already the international break :(

City have looked really impressive so far. United and Chelsea a bit fortunate to be on 9 points. Transfer window is closing soon. Don't see any major shakeups happening.

City looked great this time last year too. But yeah, yesterday was clinincal at times.

Manchester Derby in two weeks. Should be fun.

[luburch]

Things should start to get really interesting with the Champions League starting back this week.

City handled United Easily. Chelsea held to a point. Arsenal win late on a fortunate penalty. Liverpool dismantled Leicester.

[JohnGalt]

Man City - Stoke was pretty entertaining.

Liverpool next, first three games on the road because renovations to Anfield not done yet. I was just told they are adding 10,000 seats -- that's not right is it?

By the way, the reason I got interested in Liverpool stems from getting hooked on this song one late night in Wilson House. A really brief background taste at the beginning and at 2:10 but does not really kick in until the end:

https://youtu.be/TeyHPAdxuy0

(crowd singing "Never Walk Alone")

My understanding is that the redevelopment is mostly about the luxury / executive suites. So while a 'redevelopment' that only adds 10k seats may not sound like a lot, I believe the intent is to dramatically increase LFC's executive seating availability...which are obviously sold for a premium.

What's interesting about that song is that Pink Floyd were big Arsenal supporters.

[HS Dukie]

My understanding is that the redevelopment is mostly about the luxury / executive suites. So while a 'redevelopment' that only adds 10k seats may not sound like a lot, I believe the intent is to dramatically increase LFC's executive seating availability...which are obviously sold for a premium.

What's interesting about that song is that Pink Floyd were big Arsenal supporters.

The Main Stand redevelopment added 8,500 seats, increasing capacity at Anfield to just north of 54,000. While it's true executive suites were added as part of this project because of the increased revenue from premium ticket pricing, LFC needed to expand capacity to keep up with the likes of Utd and Arsenal, and the uber-rich clubs, Man City and Chelsea. Heck, West Ham just moved into the London Olympic Stadium, which has a capacity of 60,000! I believe LFC also have approved plans to expand the Anfield Road stand by 6,000 seats, to get capacity up to the 60,000 mark. With no salary cap and severely relaxed UEFA Financial Fair Play rules in effect (which never really had much teeth anyway), Liverpool was in danger of becoming a perennial mid-table club without the increased revenue that a larger stadium will generate. That would be a tragedy, given LFC have one of the biggest trophy cabinets in world football (19 league titles and 5 European Cups, for starters).


YNWA JFT 96

[duke74]

The Main Stand redevelopment added 8,500 seats, increasing capacity at Anfield to just north of 54,000. While it's true executive suites were added as part of this project because of the increased revenue from premium ticket pricing, LFC needed to expand capacity to keep up with the likes of Utd and Arsenal, and the uber-rich clubs, Man City and Chelsea. Heck, West Ham just moved into the London Olympic Stadium, which has a capacity of 60,000! I believe LFC also have approved plans to expand the Anfield Road stand by 6,000 seats, to get capacity up to the 60,000 mark. With no salary cap and severely relaxed UEFA Financial Fair Play rules in effect (which never really had much teeth anyway), Liverpool was in danger of becoming a perennial mid-table club without the increased revenue that a larger stadium will generate. That would be a tragedy, given LFC have one of the biggest trophy cabinets in world football (19 league titles and 5 European Cups, for starters).


YNWA JFT 96

Does anyone know the relative weight of attendance vs. TV as far as revenues go? Clearly larger attendance is better for concessions, businesses around the stadia and crowd enthusiasm, but will the increase in ticket sales be material enough to even up the odds?

Then again, you can have all the revenues in the world, but not spend it (i.e., Arsene)

[HS Dukie]

Does anyone know the relative weight of attendance vs. TV as far as revenues go? Clearly larger attendance is better for concessions, businesses around the stadia and crowd enthusiasm, but will the increase in ticket sales be material enough to even up the odds?

Then again, you can have all the revenues in the world, but not spend it (i.e., Arsene)

Great question - I imagine it's a smaller proportion of match day/gate to TV revenue in the EPL now, as the new TV rights deal with Sky pays out £81M per season to each club. There are additional amounts paid to the clubs for TV broadcasting, depending on the number of appearances. For reference, I found Liverpool's match day revenue for the 14-15 season, and it was about £60M. Big clubs also generate huge revenue through commercial deals, e.g. kit sponsorship, and from the kit brands themselves. Man Utd gets a ridiculous amount of money from Adidas and Chevrolet, and have a different sponsor (AON) for their training kits. All of this just goes to show you why promotion/relegation means so much to the clubs. Think about the revenue Aston Villa is losing this year, their first season out of the top flight since the Premier League was established.

Arsene spent a reasonable amount this past window, at least by his standards! Klopp had a negative net spend in contrast.

[duke74]

Great question - I imagine it's a smaller proportion of match day/gate to TV revenue in the EPL now, as the new TV rights deal with Sky pays out £81M per season to each club. There are additional amounts paid to the clubs for TV broadcasting, depending on the number of appearances. For reference, I found Liverpool's match day revenue for the 14-15 season, and it was about £60M. Big clubs also generate huge revenue through commercial deals, e.g. kit sponsorship, and from the kit brands themselves. Man Utd gets a ridiculous amount of money from Adidas and Chevrolet, and have a different sponsor (AON) for their training kits. All of this just goes to show you why promotion/relegation means so much to the clubs. Think about the revenue Aston Villa is losing this year, their first season out of the top flight since the Premier League was established.

Arsene spent a reasonable amount this past window, at least by his standards! Klopp had a negative net spend in contrast.

Agree, we did spend, albeit late in the game and after innumerable misses it seemed.

My former firm, Deloitte (UK), puts put an annual analysis of sources of revenue. I will try to find it and answer my own question. :)

[duke74]

Agree, we did spend, albeit late in the game and after innumerable misses it seemed.

My former firm, Deloitte (UK), puts put an annual analysis of sources of revenue. I will try to find it and answer my own question. :)

Midteens % for matchday, most on broadcast rest in commercial. Broadcast growth projected in 2016/7 at the expense of the other two components.

See p 16 http://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2016.pdf

[Furniture]

Things should start to get really interesting with the Champions League starting back this week.

City handled United Easily. Chelsea held to a point. Arsenal win late on a fortunate penalty. Liverpool dismantled Leicester.

I sort of politely beg to differ. City were clinical and dominated the first half but in the second with the chosen ones changes United were much better. I think they deserved a point. Btw I am not a united fan.....

[HS Dukie]

Midteens % for matchday, most on broadcast rest in commercial. Broadcast growth projected in 2016/7 at the expense of the other two components.

See p 16 http://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2016.pdf

Very interesting analysis. Thank you for sharing.

[duke74]

Very interesting analysis. Thank you for sharing.

Pleasure. It's a really good practice group in my former (38 years worth!) firm.

[luburch]

Nice to have Champions League soccer back as well. Now 4 days of the week I have at least some soccer I can watch. :)

[JohnGalt]

The Main Stand redevelopment added 8,500 seats, increasing capacity at Anfield to just north of 54,000. While it's true executive suites were added as part of this project because of the increased revenue from premium ticket pricing, LFC needed to expand capacity to keep up with the likes of Utd and Arsenal, and the uber-rich clubs, Man City and Chelsea. Heck, West Ham just moved into the London Olympic Stadium, which has a capacity of 60,000! I believe LFC also have approved plans to expand the Anfield Road stand by 6,000 seats, to get capacity up to the 60,000 mark. With no salary cap and severely relaxed UEFA Financial Fair Play rules in effect (which never really had much teeth anyway), Liverpool was in danger of becoming a perennial mid-table club without the increased revenue that a larger stadium will generate. That would be a tragedy, given LFC have one of the biggest trophy cabinets in world football (19 league titles and 5 European Cups, for starters).

YNWA JFT 96

*18 league titles. We're all waiting very patiently for the 19th. :)

The redevelopment was all about adding corporate hospitality. In 2012-13 Stamford Bridge's capacity was ~3K less than Anfield's, but generated ~60% more in matchday earnings...largely due to "premium seating." Ian Ayre had this to say:


“I don’t think there’s a football club in the country who could afford to spend money on a new stand without the assistance of corporate hospitality. It pays,” said Ayre. “It will probably pay two thirds or more of the payback of this facility and that is a fact of life. You can’t find economic solutions that work in big new stadiums that don’t have corporate."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/04/liverpool-new-main-stand-anfield-corporate-seats

Liverpool are not backed by States with sweetheart commercial deals (e.g. City / PSG) nor fabulously wealthy individuals (e.g. Chelsea). It also operates in a league with a relatively equitable distribution of TV money (unlike Barca / Madrid) and for a period of time was operated by a few individuals looking to flip it versus setting it up for long term financial health (like Munich is / has been run). FSG gets a lot of grief in Liverpool, but - IMO - it's almost completely unwarranted, something that the $115M interest-free loan to expand corporate seating in the main stand demonstrates. In the near term - barring a complete re-think by UEFA - we're never going to be able to go toe-to-toe with the clubs mentioned above, but the stadium expansion does get us incrementally closer.


Does anyone know the relative weight of attendance vs. TV as far as revenues go? Clearly larger attendance is better for concessions, businesses around the stadia and crowd enthusiasm, but will the increase in ticket sales be material enough to even up the odds?

Then again, you can have all the revenues in the world, but not spend it (i.e., Arsene)

This is a question for the Swiss Ramble. He reviews and blogs ab football financials. It's really detailed and really insightful.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2016/03/liverpool-over-wall.html

Arsenal are strong, but not as strong as you think...especially with that big, shiny new stadium to pay for.

[duke74]

[QUOTE=JohnGalt;910906
Arsenal are strong, but not as strong as you think...especially with that big, shiny new stadium to pay for.[/QUOTE]

Might be (or probably am) wrong, but thought the Emirates was paid off now (eg, debt repaid).

[luburch]

Yeah, the Emirates is completely paid off.

United losing to Watford was fantastic. Nothing like seeing Mourinho struggle.

[JohnGalt]

Yeah, the Emirates is completely paid off.

United losing to Watford was fantastic. Nothing like seeing Mourinho struggle.

Are y'all sure re: Emirates? 10 years seems fast to pay off something that cost >$250M.

[luburch]

Are y'all sure re: Emirates? 10 years seems fast to pay off something that cost >$250M.

Hmmm, I thought so, but you're right. That seems awfully fast. Here's an article from 2014 discussing their new financial deals and talking about the stadium debt. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/10601900/Arsenal-have-reached-their-Promised-Land-Why-2014-is-such-a-big-year-for-Arsene-Wenger-and-the-Gunners.html) Granted, it never explicitly states that the stadium is paid off.

This Forbes article from 2014 also discusses their financial health. http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2014/09/20/latest-accounts-show-financial-times-have-changed-for-arsenal/#206373cb1466

I couldn't find anything that explicitly said if it is or is not completely paid, but it seems they aren't being hampered by it anymore.

[killerleft]

Yeah, the Emirates is completely paid off.

United losing to Watford was fantastic. Nothing like seeing Mourinho struggle.

Yeah!!! :)

[duke74]

Been waiting for this. Skilled, fluid play. Total domination at the Emirates of a side we've had difficulties with for years.

Sanchez, Theo and Ozil. Sanchez on a steal, going all the way. Theo goal spectacular with multiple passes leading to the assist by Coquelin to Theo in the box for what was an easy one ultimately. Ozil on another takeaway - a long run and a give and go with Sanchez for his goal.

All goals in H1, but continued to dominate in H2. Didn't coast.

Now to keep this up.

[JohnGalt]

Been waiting for this. Skilled, fluid play. Total domination at the Emirates of a side we've had difficulties with for years.

Sanchez, Theo and Ozil. Sanchez on a steal, going all the way. Theo goal spectacular with multiple passes leading to the assist by Coquelin to Theo in the box for what was an easy one ultimately. Ozil on another takeaway - a long run and a give and go with Sanchez for his goal.

All goals in H1, but continued to dominate in H2. Didn't coast.

Now to keep this up.

I wanted y'all to draw because that's best for LFC, but a total beatdown of Chelsea is a close, close second. The 3rd goal was peak Ozil. I love that guy.

The Reds are looking strong. I can't remember a more comprehensive half than the first against Hull yesterday. 13-14 with Suarez produced some more devastating halves, but we always looked like we could concede on any break. Yesterday we were top, top notch in all phases of play. Hull only completed 3 passes in our defensive third in that entire first half! It's hard to believe Klavan and Matip together were acquired for less than $10M.

Also...in addition to peak Ozil, I think we had peak Guardiola earlier this week:

https://twitter.com/ManCityGoaIs/status/779331237999734784

[luburch]

Entertaining weekend, for sure. I had a wedding to attend Saturday in Columbus, so I had to catch all of the games in a pub. Always nice to do every now and then - fun atmosphere.

Everyone at the top (bar Chelsea) had impressive victories. How poor have Leicester been this season?! I expected a drop-off, do to losing Kante and they were due for some bad breaks in general, but they have not looked good at all.

[Furniture]

Fantastic win for The Spurs! What a game and Man City's first loss!

[wilson]

Crazy, lucky finish for the Gunners today (not that I'm complaining).
Spurs looked awfully good in manhandling City this morning, and did everyone a favor by tightening the top of the table.

[duke74]

Crazy, lucky finish for the Gunners today (not that I'm complaining).
Spurs looked awfully good in manhandling City this morning, and did everyone a favor by tightening the top of the table.

Nor am I. COYG.

[luburch]

International break upcoming now, correct?

Arsenal fans should always cheer for Spurs to win, because if Spurs finish second in the League then it means Arsenal finished first :)

[duke74]

International break upcoming now, correct?

Arsenal fans should always cheer for Spurs to win, because if Spurs finish second in the League then it means Arsenal finished first :)

Well played...

[OldPhiKap]

Got up looking forward to action today, forgot it was a break week. Replay of Spurs and City not doing it for me.

[duke74]

Midteens % for matchday, most on broadcast rest in commercial. Broadcast growth projected in 2016/7 at the expense of the other two components.

See p 16 http://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2016.pdf

Just came across this article re the Emirates' profitability - quoting a Deloitte study. "The most profitable stadium"

http://news.arseblog.com/2016/10/report-emirates-is-europes-most-profitable-stadium/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

And here's an interesting article about the Gunners' finances, including transfer spend. Can't vouch for accuracy, but interesting nonetheless.

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/arsenal-new-sensation.html

[OldPhiKap]

Looks like Leicester is regressing to the mean. Gunners taking their defense apart. But it's hard to pull against the Foxes.

[OldPhiKap]

Go Bob Bradley and Swansea! First American to coach in the Premier League IIRC. Wales is a long way from, well, everywhere.

[duke74]

Looks like Leicester is regressing to the mean. Gunners taking their defense apart. But it's hard to pull against the Foxes.

Not for us Gooners. But aren't we playing Swansea today?

[OldPhiKap]

Not for us Gooners. But aren't we playing Swansea today?

Correct, not awake yet. Leicester had Chelsea.

[duke74]

Gunners 2-1 over Swansea. Two by Theo and one by Ozil. Ozil's on a beautiful volley on an looping cross by Alexis. Six in a row for the Gunners.

City and Spurs both drew so Gunners and City tied at the top of the table, Spurs a point behind. Reds and Chelski three behind the leaders.

[OldPhiKap]

Middlesbrough with a very credible first half.

[OldPhiKap]

I know that Duke74 wanted three points there, but as a neutral observer I was glad to see Middlesbrough gain the point. Entertaining match.

[duke74]

I know that Duke74 wanted three points there, but as a neutral observer I was glad to see Middlesbrough gain the point. Entertaining match.

You got it, OPK! Hate giving up points that we should garner, especially at the Emirates. But still have a good feeling about this team.

[luburch]

Top of the table is looking pretty tight, but still early days. Chelsea should have a major advantage this year with no European football at all. Similar to Leicester last year.

Always nice to see Mourinho battered. 4-0. Woof.

[OldPhiKap]

Top of the table is looking pretty tight, but still early days. Chelsea should have a major advantage this year with no European football at all. Similar to Leicester last year.

Always nice to see Mourinho battered. 4-0. Woof.

Mourinho apparently was not happy with Conte:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/23/jose-mourinho-rages-manchester-united-incredible-mistakes-chelsea

[luburch]

Mourinho apparently was not happy with Conte:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/23/jose-mourinho-rages-manchester-united-incredible-mistakes-chelsea

This isn't surprising. Mourinho isn't happy with anyone - especially when he loses.

Pogba has been bang average this season at best. The transfer amount seems more and more ridiculous each day.

[OldPhiKap]

This isn't surprising. Mourinho isn't happy with anyone - especially when he loses.

Pogba has been bang average this season at best. The transfer amount seems more and more ridiculous each day.

Per recent tweet from @ AnsfieldBond:

"Liverpool signed Coutinho, Firmino, Origi, Mane, Milner, Matip and Karius for less than Man United signed Pogba for. Let that sink in. #LFC"

[duke74]

This isn't surprising. Mourinho isn't happy with anyone - especially when he loses.

Pogba has been bang average this season at best. The transfer amount seems more and more ridiculous each day.

And...as someone who (also) roots for Juve, I couldn't be happier.

[duke74]

Per recent tweet from @ AnsfieldBond:

"Liverpool signed Coutinho, Firmino, Origi, Mane, Milner, Matip and Karius for less than Man United signed Pogba for. Let that sink in. #LFC"

The Gunner blogs and boards have been loading up on this as well.

[wilson]

If you haven't yet seen Mesut Özil's stoppage time game-winner (http://www.espnfc.us/club/arsenal/359/blog/post/2986961/mesut-ozils-masterful-goal-one-of-the-best-arsenal-have-scored-under-wenger) from yesterday's Champs League tilt vs. Ludogorets, you need to. A thing of true beauty.

[Chicago 1995]

If you haven't yet seen Mesut Özil's stoppage time game-winner (http://www.espnfc.us/club/arsenal/359/blog/post/2986961/mesut-ozils-masterful-goal-one-of-the-best-arsenal-have-scored-under-wenger) from yesterday's Champs League tilt vs. Ludogorets, you need to. A thing of true beauty.

Good day for the Premier League yesterday, with Arsenal's comeback and City's outstanding last 50 minutes against Barca leading to a 3-1 win. City's still a work in progress, but the ceiling is really, really high. DeBruyne continues to shine -- and stand as one of Mourinho's greatest failures. City's got Boro on Saturday. Hopefully that's 3 more points and a bigger cushion in goal differential. North London Derby should be a good one. Arsenal's in fine form and Spurs D continues to be outstanding.

[wilson]

...DeBruyne continues to shine -- and stand as one of Mourinho's greatest failures. City's got Boro on Saturday. Hopefully that's 3 more points and a bigger cushion in goal differential...Boy, do I love to watch De Bruyne play, even if it is for those pale blue interlopers.

[Chicago 1995]

Boy, do I love to watch De Bruyne play, even if it is for those pale blue interlopers.

He's awesome to watch. Good enough I actually bought something in that otherwise too close to Carolina blue that City sports. Weird rooting for a team in that color .... :confused:

[duke74]

If you haven't yet seen Mesut Özil's stoppage time game-winner (http://www.espnfc.us/club/arsenal/359/blog/post/2986961/mesut-ozils-masterful-goal-one-of-the-best-arsenal-have-scored-under-wenger) from yesterday's Champs League tilt vs. Ludogorets, you need to. A thing of true beauty.


Spectacular, from the little flip over the GK to the way he patiently let one of the defenders overrun him.

I like this team, especially when it is in sync. Alexis, Santi, Mesut...and I remain a Giroud fan. Gunners-Spurs should be a good one...too early in the season for the Spurs choke...

COYG!

[luburch]

New faces at the top of the table. Liverpool and Chelsea overtake City/Arsenal (who both drew this weekend) heading into international break. Conte seems to have settled in and they are playing some gorgeous football. Hate that I had to admit that.

Hard for me to ever trust Liverpool based on recent years, but they are enjoying themselves at the moment. I imagine will see the table shake-up some more before Christmas. The holidays always make for some odd results.

Meanwhile, USMNT qualifier this Friday against Mexico. Pulisic with another assist this weekend for Dortmund. Hope to see him in the starting XI.

[OldPhiKap]

New faces at the top of the table. Liverpool and Chelsea overtake City/Arsenal (who both drew this weekend) heading into international break. Conte seems to have settled in and they are playing some gorgeous football. Hate that I had to admit that.

Hard for me to ever trust Liverpool based on recent years, but they are enjoying themselves at the moment. I imagine will see the table shake-up some more before Christmas. The holidays always make for some odd results.

Meanwhile, USMNT qualifier this Friday against Mexico. Pulisic with another assist this weekend for Dortmund. Hope to see him in the starting XI.

I thought Leicester would regress to the mean a bit, but they may be fighting to stay out of the relegation zone pretty soon if not already fighting it (only 12 points; the top relegation risk team at present has 11). Too bad, pulling for the foxes. Still very early, obviously, but not the start you want.

Liverpool seems to really be meshing well.

Pulling for Coach Bradley at Swansea, but something needs to click for them to avoid relegation. Only five points through eleven matches is dismal.

[OldPhiKap]

Nice play by USMNT to even the Mexico match at the 50-minute mark. Like me some Bobby Wood.

[cato]

Nice play by USMNT to even the Mexico match at the 50-minute mark. Like me some Bobby Wood.

So, who else opted for watching USMNT over Duke MBB? I don't regret my choice, but man.

[OldPhiKap]

So, who else opted for watching USMNT over Duke MBB? I don't regret my choice, but man.

Streamed hoops, tv on USMNT.

Tough one for the US. That match is always chippy, but it was getting pretty raw out there before the late goal.

[cato]

These dueling USMNT and Duke games are killing me. I'll record both, but the idea that I will get to watch both is a pipe dream.

Anyone holding out hope for 3 points tonight? That stumble against Mexico really sucks.

[luburch]

Anyone still confident in Klinsmann as a coach?

[OldPhiKap]

Anyone still confident in Klinsmann as a coach?

Not sure if the problem is coaching, or talent. The fact that Michael Bradley is one of the best players in our country is sad. The fact that this has been a true statement for a decade now is really sad.

[cato]

Not sure if the problem is coaching, or talent. The fact that Michael Bradley is one of the best players in our country is sad. The fact that this has been a true statement for a decade now is really sad.

Indeed. It would have been very interesting if we had some special talent during Klinsman's tenure, but it does not seem to be meant to be.

The talent level has fallen off. Mexico and Costa Rica are both better teams. Hopefully there will be no slip ups going forward.

[luburch]

I think the talent level is fine. To me, Klinsmann is 100% at fault for failures now. It's been five years.

[OldPhiKap]

I think the talent level is fine. To me, Klinsmann is 100% at fault for failures now. It's been five years.

Just asking, but best I can tell we only have 3 or four players in the Premiere League. I know we want to keep them home and all, but the free market would seem to indicate that we just do not have elite-level talent for the most part. The Mexican league is about 10th in average salary around the world. US, where most of our players compete, is 22nd.

http://deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283

I realize that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, and I am not knowledgeable enough to know if another coach would get better, worse, or similar results. I see very few players though that seem world-class when on the pitch. Compare that to the USWNT, for example, where you can see that we really have some of the elite female soccer players in the world.

The pool of talented US male players seems pretty small, and those we have play in an inferior league against less-challenging opponents. I look forward to BPL futbol every Saturday that it is on. I cannot sit through an American game.

May just be me though.

[wilson]

Gunners absolutely stole a point at Old Trafford on a beautiful header from Giroud. Their only shot on target all day, and their first goal at Trafford in NINE YEARS.

[OldPhiKap]

Gunners absolutely stole a point at Old Trafford on a beautiful header from Giroud. Their only shot on target all day, and their first goal at Trafford in NINE YEARS.

Red Devils at the door all match, late equalizer by the Gunners to draw the point. Agreed, a quite fortunate result for Arsenal.

[duke74]

Gunners absolutely stole a point at Old Trafford on a beautiful header from Giroud. Their only shot on target all day, and their first goal at Trafford in NINE YEARS.

Agree..and with OPK. I've been saying how much I like Olivier...have his limits, but has been very productive for us. Just need to feed him where he can do some damage....

Whew....

[luburch]

Gunners absolutely stole a point at Old Trafford on a beautiful header from Giroud. Their only shot on target all day, and their first goal at Trafford in NINE YEARS.

Pretty sure it's the first league goal against Mourinho in nine years and not first goal at OT in nine years.

[wilson]

Pretty sure it's the first league goal against Mourinho in nine years and not first goal at OT in nine years.I think you're right. Good catch. Still seems preposterous.

[duke09hms]

I think you're right. Good catch. Still seems preposterous.

Mourinho spent a couple years in Italy/Spain in that time.

[luburch]

Klinsmann is out as coach and technical director.

[bird]

Klinsmann is out as coach and technical director.

We had to do it. The team is stale.

[cato]

We had to do it. The team is stale.

Agreed. A disappointing thing, but what options did US Soccer have?

[luburch]

Not sure Arena is a great replacement. Hopefully it's on an interim or short-term basis.

[Gooch]

I think Arena is familiar enough with the setup and the players to get us qualified for Russia. I wish we could find someone more exciting/innovative but practicality must win out right now since we're bottom of the Hex. It will be interesting to see which (if any) players that were in Klinsmann's doghouse get a call-up...

[OldPhiKap]

Okay, 20 minute delay in MLS Eatern Conference game because they painted the penalty boxes the wrong size. Seriously.

But firing Jürgen will be the cure. . . .

I don't disagree with making a change. But we have a bush league national league and we lack world class players. I heard an interview with Arenas, he's gonna talk to Landon about a potential role if he doesn't retire. Good gravy.

[OldPhiKap]

And like that, Michael Bradley is slow to recover and a goal for the opponent . . . .

[OldPhiKap]

And again, twice in first twelve minutes.

[luburch]

Eventful weekend in the PL. Arsenal and Tottenham both cruise. Liverpool blows a lead to Bournemouth and United concede a late penalty to Everton.

Biggest game of the weekend was Chelsea vs City which ended in a bit of a brawl after a nasty Aguero challenge.

Chelsea are three points clear at the top with no CL/EL to deal with. That's a good position to be in.

[OldPhiKap]

MLS championship going to PKs

[OldPhiKap]

Great to see Vardy get a hat trick today, way to finally break the seal on the season.

[gurufrisbee]

Sounders!!!!!

[OldPhiKap]

Sounders!!!!!

What a great job in goal by Frei.

Also, congrats to our Gooner friends today.

[duke74]

What a great job in goal by Frei.

Also, congrats to our Gooner friends today.

You're welcome! :)

A good day v. Stoke.

And so far 1-1 in the Turin derby. Forza Juve.

[wilson]

The Gunners finally jump up and win a UCL group, and then draw Bayern Munich in the round of 16 anyway (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2017/draws/).
Sigh.

[duke74]

The Gunners finally jump up and win a UCL group, and then draw Bayern Munich in the round of 16 anyway (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2017/draws/).
Sigh.

Echo your sigh...

[Deslok]

To be fair, half of the "runners up" pool were brutal draws. Man City couldn't face Arsenal, but Bayern, Real Madrid, and PSG were all out there to be drawn. But, now is the time that the fun begins.

[IrishDevil]

Not to be overlooked in last weekend's results, Bob Bradley's Swansea City notched a victory (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38193524) over fellow cellar-dwellers Sunderland to cool the manager's seat a little. With a few favorable fixtures over the next month, the Swans may actually find a way out of the relegation zone, or least start heading in a better direction, for Bradley's sake.

[OldPhiKap]

Not to be overlooked in last weekend's results, Bob Bradley's Swansea City notched a victory (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38193524) over fellow cellar-dwellers Sunderland to cool the manager's seat a little. With a few favorable fixtures over the next month, the Swans may actually find a way out of the relegation zone, or least start heading in a better direction, for Bradley's sake.

Pulling for Swansea!

[IrishDevil]

Pulling for Swansea!

Absolutely, OPK. A point today away at the Hawthorns would be a great result, especially considering West Brom's recent offensive prowess and the Swans porous defense. Good to win at home, but a point away would be a wonderful next step.

[IrishDevil]

The Swans' defensive woes continue as they go down 3-1 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38232131) to the Baggies and give up only the second hat trick of headers in EPL history.

Middlesborough on Saturday looks a lot like a must-win if Swansea want a shot at climbing out of the relegation zone, especially considering their awful goal differential.

[OldPhiKap]

Chelsea has now won eleven straight, including the last three by 1-0. Nine points clear on top of the table. Impressive.

And what I love about Saturday mornings where I live: first match ends at 9:30; Coach K show 9:30-10; second match at 10 (today is Swansea at Middlesbrough, which would not usually grab me but for Bradley's uphill fight to avoid relegation)

[Giles95]

Can they get to 96 points and set the record for greatest team history of English football (modern era?). Jose's 2004-05 Chelsea has record at 95.

[OldPhiKap]

Can they get to 96 points and set the record for greatest team history of English football (modern era?). Jose's 2004-05 Chelsea has record at 95.

Chelsea would need 43 points in its remaining 21 matches to get to 96. It earned its first 43 in 17 matches.

Chelsea, I believe, leads the EPL in clean sheets so far as well.

Still, gotta think that the law of averages starts to catch up. 14-1-2 is crazy. Can they go 14-1-6 or 13-4-4 to finish? Win 15 of 21? It would be a feat.

[Giles95]

Chelsea would need 43 points in its remaining 21 matches to get to 96. It earned its first 43 in 17 matches.

Chelsea, I believe, leads the EPL in clean sheets so far as well.

Still, gotta think that the law of averages starts to catch up. 14-1-2 is crazy. Can they go 14-1-6 or 13-4-4 to finish? Win 15 of 21? It would be a feat.

Absolutely. We shall see. More excited about what Coach K and the guys are about to embark on but keeping an eye on CFC. Love Conte.

[duke74]

Absolutely. We shall see. More excited about what Coach K and the guys are about to embark on but keeping an eye on CFC. Love Conte.

So did I. At Juve though. Go Gunners.

[luburch]

Can they get to 96 points and set the record for greatest team history of English football (modern era?). Jose's 2004-05 Chelsea has record at 95.

That 04-05 Chelsea squad might have the record for most points, but are they truly the greatest team in history of English football?

[Giles95]

That 04-05 Chelsea squad might have the record for most points, but are they truly the greatest team in history of English football?

They certainly didn't finish the job in Europe! Liverpool under Rafa held them 0-0 in the first leg of the Champs League semis at the Bridge and the controversial Luis Garcia goal on the return leg (Liverpool absolutely deserved the win and proved it in Istanbul!) elimnated the Blues!

I do feel that the 04-05 Chelsea team (15 goals conceded) was a better squad than the Arsenal Invincibles the year prior but I am in the vast minority.

Nicholson's '61 Spurs side that did the double (when that really meant something) is probably the gold standard in English football, right?

[luburch]

They certainly didn't finish the job in Europe! Liverpool under Rafa held them 0-0 in the first leg of the Champs League semis at the Bridge and the controversial Luis Garcia goal on the return leg (Liverpool absolutely deserved the win and proved it in Istanbul!) elimnated the Blues!

I do feel that the 04-05 Chelsea team (15 goals conceded) was a better squad than the Arsenal Invincibles the year prior but I am in the vast minority.

Nicholson's '61 Spurs side that did the double (when that really meant something) is probably the gold standard in English football, right?

'61 was a bit old for me to remember. When I think gold standard, my mind instantly jumps to the invincibles, but they didn't finish in Europe either. Still can't believe that at times.

Speaking of Arsenal, disastrous week from them. Blew leads against Everton and Man City. Favorable fixtures coming up, but they just dug a deep deep hole.

[OldPhiKap]

'61 was a bit old for me to remember. When I think gold standard, my mind instantly jumps to the invincibles, but they didn't finish in Europe either. Still can't believe that at times.

Speaking of Arsenal, disastrous week from them. Blew leads against Everton and Man City. Favorable fixtures coming up, but they just dug a deep deep hole.

Everton - Liverpool today should be a fun match. Glad to see Liverpool so high up the table.

Gunners seem to be in good shape; everyone needs Chelsea to come back to the field. But right now it looks like five teams fighting for spots 2-4.

[OldPhiKap]

Bradley out at Swansea after 11 games

[OldPhiKap]

Somewhat tangential question as I watch Scottish football -- does anyone here play Dream League soccer or a different on-line soccer game? Getting hooked on Dream aleague once I figured out how to play.

[duke74]

v. Crystal Palace today. Have always appreciated his skills (more than many other Gooners I think).

http://arsenalist.com/f/2016-17/arsenal-vs-crystal-palace/goaaal-what-a-goal-olivier-giroud-1-0.html

[OldPhiKap]

v. Crystal Palace today. Have always appreciated his skills (more than many other Gooners I think).

http://arsenalist.com/f/2016-17/arsenal-vs-crystal-palace/goaaal-what-a-goal-olivier-giroud-1-0.html

And spotless passing all the way along.

[duke74]

And spotless passing all the way along.

Starting with an excellent defensive play. This is the Arsenal I love.

[OldPhiKap]

Sunderland - Liverpool with a very entertaining first half.

[OldPhiKap]

Liverpool-Swans is highly entertained no down the stretch.

As the commentator noted, the current score is meaningful on both ends of the table.

[luburch]

Scary scary moment in Hull/Chelsea yesterday.

Absolute pandemonium in Arsenal/Burnley. What are the odds Chelsea slip up at some point and come back to the rest of the league?

[OldPhiKap]

Scary scary moment in Hull/Chelsea yesterday.

Absolute pandemonium in Arsenal/Burnley. What are the odds Chelsea slip up at some point and come back to the rest of the league?

The referee totally lost control of the Gunner/Burnley match, pretty rough. Felt bad for Burnley giving up the late goal, after equalizing.

Missed the event in Chelsea to which you refer. Hull looked good in the second half; the Chelsea counter was pretty.

[luburch]

The referee totally lost control of the Gunner/Burnley match, pretty rough. Felt bad for Burnley giving up the late goal, after equalizing.

Missed the event in Chelsea to which you refer. Hull looked good in the second half; the Chelsea counter was pretty.

It happened fairly early. Ryan Mason fractured his skull. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/23/hull-ryan-mason-speaking-hospital

[duke74]

Man U takes top spot; Leicester City breaks into the top 20 based last year's success.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html?id=gb:2sm:3li:4dfml:5awa:6oth:20170128 143000:duk5&linkId=33810879

Enjoy

[Tommac]

Was a little surprised that Chelsea let Ivanovic leave. He wasn't playing much and received nothing for his exit.

[OldPhiKap]

International interlude:

USMNT looked impotent against Serbia in our last friendly; gonna be disappointed if we drop another egg tonight against Jamaica.

[OldPhiKap]

Liverpool, you're killing me.

[OldPhiKap]

Literally. Killing. Me.

[OldPhiKap]

Lit. Er. A. Lly.

[duke74]

Lit. Er. A. Lly.

And did my Gunners today. Simply awful. Respect him, but think Arsene needs to look in the mirror for the problem with this team...

[OldPhiKap]

Biggest egg of the day though goes to Crystal Palace at home, down 4-0 at half to Sunderland and never moving the needle after that. Some of the fans were showing their displeasure in less-than-positive ways. Now both tied at the he bottom, with Hull a point ahead (but still in relegation zone) due to the three taken from the Reds.

Hull's new manager seems to have made a great turn, though, hope they pull out of relegation.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Liverpool, you're killing me.

And don't look now, but Everton(aka the original Blues) are only 6 points back.

Lukaku with 4 goals today vs Bournemouth.

[HS Dukie]

Lit. Er. A. Lly.

I still haven't recovered from that debacle. I said to my wife, after the comedy of errors to concede the corner at 41'. "We're going to give away a stupid goal here". Sure enough, poor marking and a howler by Mignolet gifted the goal. I love Jürgen, so I sure hope he figures out a way past the bus-parking relegation fodder soon. I'll take a 2-1 against Spurs at the weekend, please!

[JohnGalt]

Has a Messi-led Barca team ever been beaten so comprehensively?

Andre Gomes is rapidly becoming the poster child for soccer recruiting 101: No player shall be purchased on the basis of a strong international performance.

----

On another note...Up the Reds!

YNWA,
-JG

[burnspbesq]

Tough day at Boro, but ... a year from now, Lookman chips the keeper instead of ripping it low and giving him a chance, and we come home with a richly undeserved three points.

I think Everton has dug itself too deep a hole to finish above seventh this year, but that can still be a Europa League place if both cups are won by top-five teams. And next year ...

[wilson]

Calling any MLS fans here? I know blazindw is a big DC United supporter...anybody else? I'm extremely excited about the upcoming inaugural game for Atlanta United, and would love to hear from fans of any other MLS sides. Maybe even create a dedicated MLS thread if there's critical mass.

[duke74]

Red Bull. Can't root for ANY side associated with Man City, even if it is my "home side."

[wilson]

...Can't root for ANY side associated with Man City, even if it is my "home side."Plus they wear that color.

[awhom111]

Calling any MLS fans here? I know blazindw is a big DC United supporter...anybody else? I'm extremely excited about the upcoming inaugural game for Atlanta United, and would love to hear from fans of any other MLS sides. Maybe even create a dedicated MLS thread if there's critical mass.

I'm an Earthquakes fan having been at the first MLS game back in the Clash days as a kid.

Unfortunately, the years of being and A's and Earthquakes fan dealing with the same issues since both teams have the same owners has worn me down a bit, plus there is a local PDL team that is cool to be involved with.

[duke74]

All I will say after the debacle today is that Arsene must go. The time is passed for him. No heart or courage by the team. Fire. him. now.

[OldPhiKap]

All I will say after the debacle today is that Arsene must go. The time is passed for him. No heart or courage by the team. Fire. him. now.

Not sure why he did not start Alexis. But I was pulling for Liverpool so glad to see it.

[luburch]

Not sure why he did not start Alexis. But I was pulling for Liverpool so glad to see it.

Rumors of a training ground bust-up. Either way, it's hard to see Arsene staying on at the season's end. Even if he does have another two year offer on the table.

[OldPhiKap]

I know we have a few Gunners fans here -- but Go Lincoln City! What a story that would be!

[duke74]

I know we have a few Gunners fans here -- but Go Lincoln City! What a story that would be!

Nothing would surprise me this year.

BTW, big rumors circulating about Juve coach at the Emirates next season. But who knows...all internet driven (from one of my teams to the other).

[burnspbesq]

This weekend's results make it a virtual certainty for next year.

Every team remaining in the FA Cup is in the top six. Sixth-place ManU has the EPL cup winner's spot in the Europa League in its pocket. The lead over eighth-place West Brom is seven points with ten to play.

Woo!

[wilson]

While everyone was preoccupied with some sort of basketball invitational or something, Atlanta United absolutely dismantled Minnesota United in the snow yesterday afternoon. AUFC set a record for goals in a game by a MLS expansion squad (http://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/2017/3/13/14902420/atlanta-united-record-goals-mls-expansion-team), and Josef Martinez became just the fourth player to record a hat trick in a team's first season in the league.
Atlanta's attack made things look easy throughout the game, and other than a handful of hairy moments on defense, utterly dominated the run of play all day. Encouraging and exciting for us fans of the Five Stripes.

[OldPhiKap]

Big game for the Gunners against Stoke. Pulling for Liverpool, so pulling for the Potters. But realistically, a draw would be a good result for the home team.

Bummed that my other team (Foxes) had their penalty kick disallowed against City. Though a good call, a rare call.

[OldPhiKap]

Gunner fans -- Wenger, yae or nae?

[duke74]

Gunner fans -- Wenger, yae or nae?

Nae. Thanks for the past but time to move on in my view.

Team needs fresh thinking and toughness. Love the style of play but clearly it, or the personnel, hasn't been up to par recently.

Now, ask me about my other side - Forza Juve! Win the league and generally do well in the Champions League. Finals this year.

[OldPhiKap]

Nae. Thanks for the past but time to move on in my view.

Team needs fresh thinking and toughness. Love the style of play but clearly it, or the personnel, hasn't been up to par recently.

Now, ask me about my other side - Forza Juve! Win the league and generally do well in the Champions League. Finals this year.

WSJ had a great article about Milan this week. Best of luck, pulling against Madrid just because.

And, because Italy has great memories for me.

[OldPhiKap]

And the rout is on . . . .

[luburch]

Gunner fans -- Wenger, yae or nae?

Think it has to be nae at this point. He has been remarkably consistent over the years, but Arsenal haven't legitimately competed for the title or in Europe for many years.

[YmoBeThere]

And the rout is on . . . .

I don't pay attention to Premier League but did manage to see Bayern's remarkable comeback over Leipzig this morning in Bundesliga action.

[luburch]

Final day of the league Sunday. The PL does the last day of the season better than anyone else.

[OldPhiKap]

Final day of the league Sunday. The PL does the last day of the season better than anyone else.

Indeed. Great tradition.

Arsenal, Man City, and Liverpool are all on edge. Although I think Man C has a goal differential difference over Arsenal too large to eclipse. Fixtures for them:

Man City @ (16) Watford
Liverpool hosts (19) Middlesbrough
Chelsea hosts (20) Sunderland

Hull City, Middlesbrough and Sunderland all relegated; no drama at the bottom of the table.

Go Liverpool!

[duke74]

Go Liverpool!

Not in this house. :) COYG!

[OldPhiKap]

Not in this house. :) COYG!

C'mon, join the fun. You'll never walk alone.

(we could agree to hate on Man City, but I think they're safe due to goal differential).

[duke74]

C'mon, join the fun. You'll never walk alone.

(we could agree to hate on Man City, but I think they're safe due to goal differential).

Good one, OPK. (That song still reminds me of Jerry Lewis and the Labor Day Telethon.)

And agree on the Citizens...both items.

[OldPhiKap]

Good one, OPK. (That song still reminds me of Jerry Lewis and the Labor Day Telethon.)

And agree on the Citizens...both items.

Pink Floyd's song Fearless features the home fans singing/chanting that song (sort of interwoven at points in the background in a Floyd-sort of way). Once I learned that was the origin of the fan song, I chose Liverpool as my team.

Great Floyd song from their transitional years, if you have 8-10 minutes or so.

[duke74]

Pink Floyd's song Fearless features the home fans singing/chanting that song (sort of interwoven at points in the background in a Floyd-sort of way). Once I learned that was the origin of the fan song, I chose Liverpool as my team.

Great Floyd song from their transitional years, if you have 8-10 minutes or so.

Thanks. Won't get into PPB territory, but I will never...ever... listen to another Pink Floyd song. (Sorry)

[OldPhiKap]

Thanks. Won't get into PPB territory, but I will never...ever... listen to another Pink Floyd song. (Sorry)

If it's any consolation, the rest of the band hates Roger Waters too.

[duke74]

If it's any consolation, the rest of the band hates Roger Waters too.

And well they, and everyone else, should.

Thanks for the info, OPK.

[OldPhiKap]

And well they, and everyone else, should.

Thanks for the info, OPK.

7427

[OldPhiKap]

Liverpool just went up 3-0. Looks like the top four are set.

[luburch]

Interesting off-season for Arsenal coming up. Wenger will likely be back on another two year deal. Still a lot of moving pieces.

[duke74]

Interesting off-season for Arsenal coming up. Wenger will likely be back on another two year deal. Still a lot of moving pieces.

Agree. For twenty years all we've heard is "Well, we've made the CL." Now they no longer have that buffer.

And ownership appears to be in play, with fan unrest.

"Interesting" might be an understatement.

[duke74]

Unfortunately NOT football related, but I thought this was a poignant (and actually clever) graphic after the murders in Manchester. A city (and world) coming together.

[OldPhiKap]

Unfortunately NOT football related, but I thought this was a poignant (and actually clever) graphic after the murders in Manchester. A city (and world) coming together.

Very nice. Unfortunate for the circumstances obviously.

[OldPhiKap]

FA Cup final coming up. Anyone watching? I know we have Blues and Gunners fans here, I'm neutral but willing to hear why I should pull it for one over the other!

[OldPhiKap]

All else equal, pulling for Wenger so pulling for Arsenal.

[OldPhiKap]

Minute of silence for victims of Manchester bombing -- very powerful.

[Tripping William]

FC Barcelona playing Alaves in Madrid in a couple of hours for the Copa del Rey. Lots of activity out & about in Barcelona tonight, although losing La Liga title to Real Madrid is still stinging the locals a bit.

My knowledge of soccer has now been exhausted.....

[duke74]

A great effort today. Bittersweet season. Good end here but missing CL hurts. A frustrating team.

[OldPhiKap]

A great effort today. Bittersweet season. Good end here but missing CL hurts. A frustrating team.

A good final game for Wenger to retire?

[duke74]

A good final game for Wenger to retire?

Don't think that's happening. Turbulence at ownership level as well.

Amazed we got this done today.

[luburch]

Expect Wenger signs another two year deal. Maybe they'll be some restructuring in the setup of the club, but I doubt it.

Sad to see the season come to a close. My Saturday and Sunday mornings just became a little more boring.

Hope Juve can knock off Real in the UCL final.

[duke74]

Expect Wenger signs another two year deal. Maybe they'll be some restructuring in the setup of the club, but I doubt it.

Sad to see the season come to a close. My Saturday and Sunday mornings just became a little more boring.

Hope Juve can knock off Real in the UCL final.

With you on Juve. My other side.

[OldPhiKap]

Match time approacheth. Really don't have a favorite in this one, but looking forward to the match!

[OldPhiKap]

I think that if you cut a cross look at Renaldo, he would fall down and claim a foul.

[bluedag]

I think that if you cut a cross look at Renaldo, he would fall down and claim a foul.

Very similar to Sergio Ramos...the slight Juan Cuadrado must have some superpowers he was unaware of.