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JasonEvans
10-07-2007, 06:33 PM
As we countdown to the start of the season, we are launching a little exercise here on the DBR board that folks may find fun. We are looking for the most popular Duke player of all-time.

We'll be launching a series of polls over the next several weeks. The first polls will contain the names of Duke players from the past -- perhaps as many as 10 or 12 in each poll. You will be able to vote for as many of the players in each poll as you want. Based on your votes, some of the players will move on to the next round.

That next round will be similar to the NCAA Tournament. The top 32 players who advance from the first polls will be "seeded" and face-off in one-on-one polls where one player advances and the other "goes home." Eventually, we will have a "Final Four" and beyond that a champion in our search for the most popular Duke player.

By the way, we are not looking for the best player of all time... we are just asking you to vote for your favorite. Faced with a matchup between Danny Ferry and Dan Meagher or Johnny Dawkins and Jon Scheyer, the choice of who was the better player would be easy-- the choice of the favorite player may not be.

Step one in this process though, is picking the players who even make the first round of polls. I have compiled a list of 81 players that is the starting point. All these players will make the first series of polls. It is virtually every 1000 point scorer in Duke history along with another dozen or so players who stick out historically for other reasons. But, it is not neccessarily complete. Feel free to post here with your own personal nominations for additional players. Back it up with a comment or two about why you think this player should be included in the list. There are likely some obvious omissions by me.

Hopefully, by the middle of this coming week we will have a complete list of every player in the first round of polls and the voting will get started. I look forward to hearing about all of your opinions!!

-Jason "the next post in this thread will be the initial list of players... again, if there is a name that you think is missing, feel free to nominate them" Evans

JasonEvans
10-07-2007, 06:34 PM
Here are the players who I am planning to include in the first round of polls:

Alaa Abdelnaby
Andre Buckner
Antonio Lang
Art Heyman
Billy King
Bob Verga
Bobby Hurley
Brian Davis
Brian Zoubek
Carlos Boozer
Carmen Wallace
Carroll Youngkin
Casey Sanders
Cherokee Parks
Chip Engelland
Chris Carrawell
Chris Collins
Chris Duhon
Christian Laettner
Corey Maggette
Dahntay Jones
Dan Meagher
Daniel Ewing
Danny Ferry
David Henderson
David McClure
DeMarcus Nelson
Dick Davenzio
Dick Groat
Elton Brand
Fred Lind
Gary Melchioni
Gene Banks
Gerald Henderson
Grant Hill
Greg Newton
Greg Paulus
J.J. Redick
Jack Marin
Jason Williams
Jay Bilas
Jeff Capel
Jeff Mullins
Jim Spanarkel
Johnny Dawkins
Jon Scheyer
Josh McRoberts
Kenny Dennard
Kevin Strickland
Kyle Singler
Lance Thomas
Lee Melchioni
Luol Deng
Mark Alarie
Marty Clark
Marty Nessley
Marty Pocius
Mike Dunleavy
Mike Gminski
Mike Lewis
Nate James
Nolan Smith
Patrick Davidson
Phil Henderson
Quin Snyder
Randy Denton
Rick Katherman
Ricky Price
Ro McLeod
Robert Brickey
Shane Battier
Shav Randolph
Shelden Williams
Steve Wojciechowski
Tate Armstrong
Taylor King
Thomas Hill
Tommy Amaker
Trajan Langdon
Vince Taylor
William Avery

--Jason "81 names... so far" Evans

Bob Green
10-07-2007, 07:12 PM
I recommend you add the 1966 ACC Player of the Year - Steve Vacendak.

micah75
10-07-2007, 07:17 PM
My first reaction was "Hmm, I wonder if he included Freddie Lind." But sho 'nuff, you did. Should be an interesting poll.

My off-the-cuff prediction: Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, and Jason Williams will make it to the final 4.

Lord Ash
10-07-2007, 08:20 PM
My prediction is it comes down to Grant, Bobby, and the eventual winner, Shane.

Good times!

Jarhead
10-07-2007, 08:36 PM
I'd like to see Gene Banks hang in at least to the final four. My final four would be Banks, Groat, Dawkins, and G. Hill.

JasonEvans
10-07-2007, 08:42 PM
I recommend you add the 1966 ACC Player of the Year - Steve Vacendak.

Yes-- of course! I thought by going to the 1000 point threshhold I would get all the really significant players. Vacendak slipped under the wire though thanks to fewer games back then and no freshman elligibilty.

--Jason "to all the folks guessing at the Final Four... wait a bit and see how the first few polls go... I think you may be surprised" Evans

77devil
10-07-2007, 09:40 PM
Here are the players who I am planning to include in the first round of polls:

Alaa Abdelnaby
Andre Buckner
Antonio Lang
Art Heyman
Billy King
Bob Verga
Bobby Hurley
Brian Davis
Brian Zoubek
Carlos Boozer
Carmen Wallace
Carroll Youngkin
Casey Sanders
Cherokee Parks
Chip Engelland
Chris Carrawell
Chris Collins
Chris Duhon
Christian Laettner
Corey Maggette
Dahntay Jones
Dan Meagher
Daniel Ewing
Danny Ferry
David Henderson
David McClure
DeMarcus Nelson
Dick Davenzio
Dick Groat
Elton Brand
Fred Lind
Gary Melchioni
Gene Banks
Gerald Henderson
Grant Hill
Greg Newton
Greg Paulus
J.J. Redick
Jack Marin
Jason Williams
Jay Bilas
Jeff Capel
Jeff Mullins
Jim Spanarkel
Johnny Dawkins
Jon Scheyer
Josh McRoberts
Kenny Dennard
Kevin Strickland
Kyle Singler
Lance Thomas
Lee Melchioni
Luol Deng
Mark Alarie
Marty Clark
Marty Nessley
Marty Pocius
Mike Dunleavy
Mike Gminski
Mike Lewis
Nate James
Nolan Smith
Patrick Davidson
Phil Henderson
Quin Snyder
Randy Denton
Rick Katherman
Ricky Price
Ro McLeod
Robert Brickey
Shane Battier
Shav Randolph
Shelden Williams
Steve Wojciechowski
Tate Armstrong
Taylor King
Thomas Hill
Tommy Amaker
Trajan Langdon
Vince Taylor
William Avery

--Jason "81 names... so far" Evans

Did I really see Marty Clark on the list when the omitted Greg Koubek was the first Duke player to play in 4 final fours?

JasonEvans
10-07-2007, 10:15 PM
Did I really see Marty Clark on the list when the omitted Greg Koubek was the first Duke player to play in 4 final fours?

Someone I was speaking to when I organized this said I must include all Martys, which is how Clark made the list. I forgot about Koubs but he will be added.

By the way, there are two other Duke Martys that I did not inlcude--
Marty Doherty 1954 & 55
Marty Joyce 1958 & 59

-Jason "Duke has had a ton of Martys considering it is not that common a name" Evans

EarlJam
10-07-2007, 10:53 PM
Did I really see Marty Clark on the list when the omitted Greg Koubek was the first Duke player to play in 4 final fours?

I was about to post with a write-in ballot for Greg Koubek when I saw your post. Thanks!

I'm sure the omission was just an oversight. Greg was so, so, SO important to that first national championship team and if I remember correctly, he helped set the tone of the game against Kansas by getting off to a hot start.

He's definitely one of my all-time favorite Dukies!

-EarlJam

Tappan Zee Devil
10-07-2007, 11:01 PM
Bob (Bobo) Reedy
Dave Golden (replaced Verga as the gunner)
Joe Kennedy
Tim Kolodziej
Steve Vandenberg

None of these guys were "great", but they were as well loved and as good as some of the more recent guys on the list.

Also how about Greg Koubek from the K era

Unfortunately nobody from my class ('70) would be in competition

Jim

Tappan Zee Devil
10-07-2007, 11:17 PM
Jay Buckley - center on the Bubas teams from 62-64

Almost reached your 1000 point criteria (and would have if freshmen could have played)

I thought he was Duke's first 7-footer, but Charlie Board has him listed as 6'10"

And he went on to get a Ph.D. in physics - As a physics major, that makes him very special to me

Jim

JasonEvans
10-07-2007, 11:24 PM
Bob (Bobo) Reedy
Dave Golden (replaced Verga as the gunner)
Joe Kennedy
Tim Kolodziej
Steve Vandenberg

None of these guys were "great", but they were as well loved and as good as some of the more recent guys on the list.

Also how about Greg Koubek from the K era

Unfortunately nobody from my class ('70) would be in competition

Jim

TZ-- do you reall think any of these guys are going to get many votes. I am quite a bit of a Duke fan and I have barely heard of these guys. I cannot list every player who ever started a game for Duke. I am trying to keep the initial polls to about a total of 100 players. Make a case for me that any of those older guys are going to get more than 5% of the vote in a poll.

--Jason "I am sure some of the more modern players do not have the stats or impact of some older guys left out, but because of TV and the internet, we know the newer guys a ton more than the older ones" Evans

OZZIE4DUKE
10-08-2007, 08:53 AM
No Jay Heaps? If Patrick "a legend in our own minds" Davidson can be in the first round, certainly carolina killer, the "hipster", should be there!

throatybeard
10-08-2007, 09:21 AM
I think the way it's going to go is ultra-heavily biased towards 1991-present.

riverside6
10-08-2007, 09:22 AM
You can go here to see a list of Duke's all time leading scorers to see who might be left off the list.

http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/ACCRecords.asp?sTeam=DU

Also, to jump to a player's page, use this URL and add the name at the end...

http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/players.asp?search=Greg Paulus

JBDuke
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
I think the way it's going to go is ultra-heavily biased towards 1991-present.

Entirely appropriate, given that this is a poll of FAVORITE instead of BEST. Fans are generally going to prefer players they are familiar with. The preponderance of DBR readership is much more familiar with the K years than with the years preceding, so I fully expect any DBR favorites to come from no earlier than the mid-80's.

JasonEvans
10-08-2007, 09:58 AM
I think the way it's going to go is ultra-heavily biased towards 1991-present.

Well that makes sense from the standpoint of Duke's success as we have won all 3 of our national titles since 1991 and have had many of our most dominant teams since then. In fact, if one were to pick the best 10 Duke teams of all-time, I'd wager that maybe 7 of them would be teams from 1991 to the present (1991, 1992, 1999, 2001, 2004, 2002 and perhaps 1994 or 1998).

Still, I bet Johnny Dawkins, Gene Banks, and a few other pre-1991 players make strong showins in these polls. Dawkins is a legitimate threat to win it or at least make the Final Four.

--Jason "plus, there is the whole memory fading over time thing to make the older players seem less significant to us" Evans

gw67
10-08-2007, 10:38 AM
Come on Jason! I can't imagine you and most of the posters having a memory problem. Leave that issue to us older fans.

I checked your list and I can name 15-16 players who were "favorite" players of mine for one reason or another. Half of them played before 1991. Like others, I suspect that the older players will be overlooked in your poll but who knows.

Thanks for starting the poll. It is a nice entry to the upcoming season. Practice begins in a week?

gw67

dkbaseball
10-08-2007, 11:54 PM
I think Alan Shaw needs to be added to the list. He held down the fort in the post pretty much by himself in '72 and '73. Also, I believe he was the first Duke player to really lift his game in the weight room.

I guess transfers out aren't eligible, but for style of play few were more enjoyable to watch than Shaw's classmate, Richie "Supah" O'Connor. All sorts of moves and a wacky personality.

dkbaseball
10-09-2007, 12:07 AM
Unfortunately nobody from my class ('70) would be in competition
Jim

Well, Glen "Goofy" Smiley would get early round votes from me for most "interesting" off-court personality.

blu62
10-09-2007, 06:45 AM
One of my all time favorites. Pt guard in the early 60's. One of my favorites played with Art Heyman and Carroll Youngkin and Doug Kistler.

throatybeard
10-09-2007, 08:31 AM
Buzzy Harrison, as long as we're talking 60s guards.

Indoor66
10-09-2007, 09:03 AM
I think Alan Shaw needs to be added to the list. He held down the fort in the post pretty much by himself in '72 and '73. Also, I believe he was the first Duke player to really lift his game in the weight room.

I guess transfers out aren't eligible, but for style of play few were more enjoyable to watch than Shaw's classmate, Richie "Supah" O'Connor. All sorts of moves and a wacky personality.

How about George Moses from that era? It was fun to watch the 26 year old.

Indoor66
10-09-2007, 09:05 AM
Well, Glen "Goofy" Smiley would get early round votes from me for most "interesting" off-court personality.

Is "Smiles" still in Dallas? Anyone know?

OZZIE4DUKE
10-09-2007, 09:26 AM
How about George Moses from that era? It was fun to watch the 26 year old.

I remember George! He came in as a powerful and skilled JUCO transfer in Bill Foster's first year as coach, and then promptly flunked out. But he had the courage and integrity to come back after sitting out the required semesters and came back to school and was a star. Well, a star as much as you could be on a very bad team. Jim Spanarkel was a freshman on that 1975-1976 team, the first cog in the 1978 Final Four team with G'man, Banks, Dennard, and Harrell.

Did I mention that Spanarkel's #34 ought to be retired?

wilson
10-09-2007, 11:55 AM
...Greg Koubek was the first Duke player to play in 4 final fours...

In fact, Greg was the first player from any school to play in four FFs. The UCLA dynasty (the only other school that would have had a chance at such a player) came before freshman eligibility.

Shammrog
10-10-2007, 10:49 AM
You *must* include Patrick Johnson. His story of not even playing HS bball, but then working his butt off over the course of a year, walking on, and earning a scholarship has to be one of the best ever as far as how a player came to play for Duke.

RepoMan
10-10-2007, 12:11 PM
I would add Dock for sure.

I could see Domzalski, Horvath, and Love getting a couple votes with the right matchups

B-well
10-10-2007, 03:20 PM
Look in the record book for the game rebounding record - and couplle that with a famous standing jump shot - you gotta include Bernie.

DukeDude
10-10-2007, 05:36 PM
What no Kenny Blakeney?!? OK, admitedly he doesn't belong, but he was the only Duke player ever to play in a pickup game with me.

JasonEvans
10-10-2007, 06:22 PM
Ok, I've kept this open for long enough. This thread contains 99 names of players nominated and I just cannot have more than 96 or this won't work. Sorry! I needed to drop 3 guys and here are the 3 I am dropping...

Tim Kolodziej who never scored even 10 points per game in a season in his career and was, at best, the third best player on his teams with Bob Verga and Mike Lewis.

Joe Kennedy, who was only an even slightly significant player as a senior and was, even then, arguably not one of the three best players on the team.

Kenny Blakeney beacuse he also never averaged even 10 points in his career-- heck, he never averaged 6-- and playing pickup with someone on this board is not enough to qualify. Sorry.

That gets me down to 96, which is where I need to be. I am again sorry I had to exclude anyone.

The 96 players will be divided into 8 polls of 12 players each. The top 4 vote getters from each poll will advance to the round of 32 where everythign is a one-on-one matchup. They will be seeded based upon their finish in each of the preliminary round polls.

If a player you like does not make the top 4 in their poll, they are out. No wild cards, no second chances. Frankly, if you cannot make the top 4 in one of these you do not deserve a shot at the grand prize.

It is VERY IMPORTANT to note that the intial round polls will be MULTIPLE CHOICE!!! This means you can vote for as many guys as you want. If you want to vote for 1 or 3 or 6 or 9 of the 12 guys, go for it-- though, obviously, the more players you vote for the less weight your vote will have.

I will post the guys in each of the 8 groups shortly and we will begin voting this evening... I think.

Good luck to everyone!!

-Jason

JasonEvans
10-10-2007, 06:56 PM
I sorted the names somewhat randomly and things seemed fine except for one group that included something like 7 guys whose are either cadidates for jersey retirment or had retirment debated about them. It was absurd-- Gminski, Shelden, JJ, Banks, Duhon, David Henderson, Deng, and Spanarkel. No way I could leave that group alone so I shifted some of those guys to some groups that were a little lacking.

Is this fudging the data on my part?? Perhaps, but no way was I going to leave that group alone.

So, here are the initial round polls. 4 guys from each of these groups will move onto the one-on-one matchups.

Group 1

Alaa Abdelnaby
Bobby Hurley
Casey Sanders
Dahntay Jones
Dick Davenzio
Glen Smiley
Jay Bilas
Jon Scheyer
Patrick Johnson
Nolan Smith
Ro McLeod
Steve Wojciechowski


Group 2

Alan Shaw
Bobo Reedy
Cherokee Parks
Dan Meagher
Dick Groat
Grant Hill
Jay Buckley
Josh McRoberts
Marty Clark
Patrick Davidson
Robert Brickey
Tate Armstrong


Group 3

Andre Buckner
Brian Davis
Carlos Boozer
Daniel Ewing
Elton Brand
Greg Koubek
Jay Heaps
Kenny Dennard
Marty Nessley
Mark Alarie
Sean Dockery
Taylor King


Group 4

Antonio Lang
Brian Zoubek
Chris Carrawell
Danny Ferry
Fred Lind
Greg Newton
Jeff Capel
Kevin Strickland
Marty Pocius
Phil Henderson
Shane Battier
Thomas Hill


Group 5

Art Heyman
Buzzy Harrison
Chris Collins
J.J. Redick
Gary Melchioni
Greg Paulus
Jeff Mullins
Kyle Singler
Mike Dunleavy
Quin Snyder
Shav Randolph
Tommy Amaker


Group 6

Bernie Janicki
Chip Engelland
Chris Duhon
David Henderson
Gene Banks
Dave Golden
Steve Vandeberg
Lance Thomas
Mike Gminski
Randy Denton
Mike Lewis
Trajan Langdon


Group 7

Billy King
Carmen Wallace
Christian Laettner
David McClure
George Moses
Jack Marin
Johnny Dawkins
Lee Melchioni
Shelden Williams
Rick Katherman
Steve Vacendak
Vince Taylor


Group 8

Bob Verga
Carroll Youngkin
Corey Maggette
DeMarcus Nelson
Gerald Henderson
Jason Williams
Johnny Frye
Luol Deng
Nate James
Ricky Price
Jim Spanarkel
William Avery


--Jason "voting begins very soon-- and remember, this first round you can vote for multiple players in each poll" Evans

throatybeard
10-10-2007, 08:20 PM
Look in the record book for the game rebounding record - and couplle that with a famous standing jump shot - you gotta include Bernie.

31

ten characters

DukeDude
10-10-2007, 11:55 PM
Kenny Blakeney beacuse he also never averaged even 10 points in his career-- heck, he never averaged 6-- and playing pickup with someone on this board is not enough to qualify. Sorry.


I was kidding! I never seriously meant for Blakeney to make the list.

dkbaseball
10-11-2007, 12:50 AM
Joe Kennedy, who was only an even slightly significant player as a senior and was, even then, arguably not one of the three best players on the team.

Kenny Blakeney beacuse he also never averaged even 10 points in his career-- heck, he never averaged 6-- and playing pickup with someone on this board is not enough to qualify. Sorry.

Trivia question: What do Joe Kennedy and Kenny Blakeney have in common with Danny Ferry? The only three Duke players this is true of.

gw67
10-11-2007, 07:46 AM
Did they all play high school basketball at Dematha in Hyattsville? Just a guess.

gw67

dkbaseball
10-11-2007, 08:42 AM
Did they all play high school basketball at Dematha in Hyattsville? Just a guess.

gw67

A correct guess. They all played for Morgan Wooten.

JasonEvans
10-11-2007, 08:08 PM
Poll #1 is now done. Congrats to the following 4 players who have qualified for the Round of 32.

Hurley - 103
Wojo - 69
Bilas - 42
Dahntay Jones - 30

--Jason "poll #2 will be open in moments" Evans

Lord Ash
10-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Wait, Jason, seriously I have to ask; how on earth do you justify putting players who have never played a game in a Duke uniform on this list? There should be SOME restrictions to this, after all... otherwise maybe Livingston should be on the list. Or why not Kobe?

JasonEvans
10-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Wait, Jason, seriously I have to ask; how on earth do you justify putting players who have never played a game in a Duke uniform on this list? There should be SOME restrictions to this, after all... otherwise maybe Livingston should be on the list. Or why not Kobe?

If you can tell me when Sean Livingston or Kobe Bryant were enrolled at Duke University and attending classes, then I will add them to the list.

I was not going to include the current freshmen, but someone asked me to put them on the list and it was not like I would have to leave off significant names to add them so I went ahead and did it. I am fairly confident none of them will advance to the next round precisely because they have not played a game yet in a Duke uniform (though they start practicing NOW!!).

--Jason "if you feel a playe does not belong, don't vote for them" Evans

JasonEvans
10-12-2007, 09:17 PM
With poll #2 now closed, four more players have advanced to the Round of 32-- Grant Hill, Dick Groat, Robert Brickey, and Tate Armstrong.

Here are the vote totals (which will determine seeding) for the 8 qualifiers so far:

Grant Hill - 106
Bobby Hurley - 103
Wojo - 69
Dick Groat - 43
Jay Bilas - 42
Robert Brickey - 36
Dahntay Jones - 30
Tate Armstrong - 21

--Jason "poll #3 will stay open all weekend" Evans

JasonEvans
10-15-2007, 04:04 PM
Four more players have advanced to the Round of 32. Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Daniel Ewing, and mark Alarie (who beat Sean Dockery by 2 votes!!).

So, here is how the Round of 32 is shaping up with 3 polls down and 5 to go.

Grant Hill - 106
Bobby Hurley - 103
Wojo - 69
Eton Brand - 68
Carlos Boozer - 65
Daniel Ewing - 47
Mark Alarie - 44
Dick Groat - 43
Jay Bilas - 42
Robert Brickey - 36
Dahntay Jones - 30
Tate Armstrong - 21

--Jason "here comes poll #4 with Battier and Ferry, two of the all-timers" Evans

JasonEvans
10-17-2007, 09:26 AM
I was really busy yesterday so I left poll #4 open for too long. As a result, players from that poll may get a slight extra boost in terms of total votes when it comes to the one-on-one matchups. Those are the breaks.

Still, we have added 4 more playerrs to our round of 32 and are now halfway there! Here are the qualifiers so far... with a new overall leader!

Shane Battier - 127
Grant Hill - 106
Bobby Hurley - 103
Danny Ferry - 80
Chris Carrawell - 71
Wojo - 69
Elton Brand - 68
Thomas Hill - 67
Carlos Boozer - 65
Daniel Ewing - 47
Mark Alarie - 44
Dick Groat - 43
Jay Bilas - 42
Robert Brickey - 36
Dahntay Jones - 30
Tate Armstrong - 21

-Jason "poll #5 coming up with one londer legend and some very popular modern players" Evans

throatybeard
10-17-2007, 09:48 AM
Wow, so anybody under about 9th on this list is done for. And that includes Alarie, Brickey, Bilas, and Groat not making the second round.

JasonEvans
10-17-2007, 11:05 AM
Wow, so anybody under about 9th on this list is done for. And that includes Alarie, Brickey, Bilas, and Groat not making the second round.

I think you misunderstand how this is working.

The players listed above are the ones who have qualified for the Round of 32. They qualified by finishing in the top 4 in one of the 8 preliminary polls. All the vote totals from the preliminary round will be dropped when we reach the round of 32 and all the polls will be one-on-one matchups at that point. The only point of the initial vote totals is to give us seedings for the round of 32. I think it is a pretty safe bet that Shane will be the top seed overall and Tate Armstrong will be the #32 seed. After that it is anybody's guess with half the polls still to be completed.

Guys like Alarie, Brickey, Bilas, and Groat will all likely be in that middle area, seeded in the mid-teens and facing each other for the right to move on to the Sweet 16.

Does it make more sense now? Sorry if it is confusing Thoraty.

--Jason "some of the middle range Round of 32 matchups are gonna be murder!!" Evans

throatybeard
10-17-2007, 01:50 PM
Oh, I see. This is a heat. After the eight heats, then we switch to Who's Now? rules.

What's Merry gonna do when she has to choose between Shane and Tate Armstrong?

throatybeard
10-17-2007, 04:24 PM
Jason, we should have one of these for WBB too. But given the shorter history of the sport, maybe just start it at a round of 32 that, say, Rob Clough seeds.

JasonEvans
10-17-2007, 05:08 PM
Jason, we should have one of these for WBB too. But given the shorter history of the sport, maybe just start it at a round of 32 that, say, Rob Clough seeds.

Yup, I'd be a lot of fun! Let me get through this effort-- which may take until Thankgiving -- and then I'll talk to Rob about helping me with a Women's poll. All my votes are going to Katie Meier and Chris Moreland.

--Jason "I'm a sucker for Duke women's hoops back when me and 15 other folks were the only people in the stands ;) " Evans

JasonEvans
10-18-2007, 08:30 AM
We add 4 more names to the list, and lament poor Jeff Mullins who missed out by just one vote!!

Here are our Round of 32 qualifiers through 5 of 8 polls:

Shane Battier - 127
Grant Hill - 106
Bobby Hurley - 103
JJ Redick - 84
Danny Ferry - 80
Tommy Amaker - 71
Chris Carrawell - 71
Wojo - 69
Elton Brand - 68
Thomas Hill - 67
Carlos Boozer - 65
Art Heyman - 56
Daniel Ewing - 47
Mark Alarie - 44
Dick Groat - 43
Jay Bilas - 42
Robert Brickey - 36
Mike Dunleavy - 32
Dahntay Jones - 30
Tate Armstrong - 21

--Jason "up next-- poll #6!" Evans

EarlJam
10-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Somewhere out there, somewhere amongst the deep blue void, a man lurks. He has yet to be seen in the polling. He is tall. He is cocky. He is clutch. His hair, is perfect. I see in the distance...........a number 32.....and perhaps an "L" on the back of the jersey.

[Insert Jaws theme music here]

-EarlJam

wilson
10-19-2007, 10:29 AM
I vote that you be sure and seed Shane and Grant on opposite sides of the bracket, because it seems as if they're easily the two most popular. What a clash that final would be (or depending on how you look at it, what an insomnia-inducing decision).

JasonEvans
10-19-2007, 01:03 PM
We have 4 more names to add to the list. Here are the round of 32 qualifiers through 6 of 8 polls:

Shane Battier - 127
Grant Hill - 106
Bobby Hurley - 103
Chris Duhon - 99
Mike Gminski - 96
JJ Redick - 84
Danny Ferry - 80
Gene Banks - 75
Tommy Amaker - 71
Chris Carrawell - 71
Trajan Langdon - 71
Wojo - 69
Elton Brand - 68
Thomas Hill - 67
Carlos Boozer - 65
Art Heyman - 56
Daniel Ewing - 47
Mark Alarie - 44
Dick Groat - 43
Jay Bilas - 42
Robert Brickey - 36
Mike Dunleavy - 32
Dahntay Jones - 30
Tate Armstrong - 21

--Jason "poll #7, coming soon!! A certain guy who hit a certain shot with 2.3 seconds left in a fairly important game is included in the next group" Evans

JasonEvans
10-19-2007, 05:56 PM
We have 4 more names to add to the list. Here are the round of 32 qualifiers through 6 of 8 polls:

Shane Battier - 127
Grant Hill - 106
Bobby Hurley - 103
Chris Duhon - 99
Mike Gminski - 96
JJ Redick - 84
Danny Ferry - 80
Gene Banks - 75
Tommy Amaker - 71
Chris Carrawell - 71
Trajan Langdon - 71
Wojo - 69
Elton Brand - 68
Thomas Hill - 67
Carlos Boozer - 65
Art Heyman - 56
Daniel Ewing - 47
Mark Alarie - 44
Dick Groat - 43
Jay Bilas - 42
Robert Brickey - 36
Mike Dunleavy - 32
Dahntay Jones - 30
Tate Armstrong - 21

--Jason "poll #7, coming soon!! A certain guy who hit a certain shot with 2.3 seconds left in a fairly important game is included in the next group" Evans

It occurs to me that there is an unfairness in the current standings because the polls had different numbers of voters. Some polls had 130+ voters, some only had about 100. That could make a difference.

So, I am changing the way the standings will be translated into round of 32 seedings. It will now be based on "percentage of votes" in a given poll. This will not affect who qualifies, but could change the order/seeds of the players.

So, here are the revised standings which will turn into seeds once polls #7 and #8 are done and we have our 32 face-off participants:


Shane Battier - 91.37%
Grant Hill - 88.33%
Bobby Hurley - 82.40%
JJ Redick - 77.78%
Chris Duhon - 76.15%
Mike Gminski - 73.85%
Tommy Amaker - 65.74%
Elton Brand - 61.82%
Carlos Boozer - 59.09%
Gene Banks - 57.69%
Danny Ferry - 57.55%
Wojo - 55.20%
Trajan Langdon - 54.62%
Art Heyman - 51.85%
Chris Carrawell - 51.08%
Thomas Hill - 48.20%
Daniel Ewing - 42.73%
Mark Alarie - 40.00%
Dick Groat - 35.83%
Jay Bilas - 33.60%
Robert Brickey - 30.00%
Mike Dunleavy - 29.63%
Dahntay Jones - 24.00%
Tate Armstrong - 17.50%


-Jason "this does not change much, but is more fair. Ferry moved from 7th to 11th while Brand and Boozer jumped from mid-teens to 8th and 9th" Evans

mapei
10-19-2007, 06:30 PM
This is really fun. Thanks, Jason.

JasonEvans
10-20-2007, 09:18 PM
And we add 4 more...


Shane Battier - 91.37%
Grant Hill - 88.33%
Johnny Dawkins - 86.07%
Bobby Hurley - 82.40%
Christian Laettner - 81.15%
JJ Redick - 77.78%
Chris Duhon - 76.15%
Mike Gminski - 73.85%
Tommy Amaker - 65.74%
Elton Brand - 61.82%
Shelden Williams - 60.66%
Carlos Boozer - 59.09%
Gene Banks - 57.69%
Danny Ferry - 57.55%
Wojo - 55.20%
Trajan Langdon - 54.62%
Art Heyman - 51.85%
Chris Carrawell - 51.08%
Thomas Hill - 48.20%
Daniel Ewing - 42.73%
Mark Alarie - 40.00%
Billy King - 36.07%
Dick Groat - 35.83%
Jay Bilas - 33.60%
Robert Brickey - 30.00%
Mike Dunleavy - 29.63%
Dahntay Jones - 24.00%
Tate Armstrong - 17.50%


--Jason "one more preliminary poll to go!!" Evans

JasonEvans
10-22-2007, 10:12 AM
And the preliminary round is done!!! Woo hooo!!!!

Here are the 32 qualifiers for the one-on-one matchups, along with their seedings.


Jason Williams - 92.52%
Shane Battier - 91.37%
Grant Hill - 88.33%
Johnny Dawkins - 86.07%
Bobby Hurley - 82.40%
Christian Laettner - 81.15%
JJ Redick - 77.78%
Chris Duhon - 76.15%
Mike Gminski - 73.85%
Tommy Amaker - 65.74%
Jim Spanarkel - 64.49%
Elton Brand - 61.82%
Shelden Williams - 60.66%
Carlos Boozer - 59.09%
Nate James - 57.94%
Gene Banks - 57.69%
Danny Ferry - 57.55%
Wojo - 55.20%
Trajan Langdon - 54.62%
Art Heyman - 51.85%
Chris Carrawell - 51.08%
Thomas Hill - 48.20%
Bob Verga - 47.66%
Daniel Ewing - 42.73%
Mark Alarie - 40.00%
Billy King - 36.07%
Dick Groat - 35.83%
Jay Bilas - 33.60%
Robert Brickey - 30.00%
Mike Dunleavy - 29.63%
Dahntay Jones - 24.00%
Tate Armstrong - 17.50%


I will admit to being a bit surprised that JWill takes the #1 overall seed. While a top 4 finish would not have shocked me, seeing him finish ahead of Shane, Grant, JD, and Bobby is a bit stunning. Will that seed hold up or will he get knocked off along the way to the title?

--Jason "I'll publish the brackets in a few moments and get the first 2 polls started ASAP" Evans

JasonEvans
10-22-2007, 10:50 AM
Ohmygod!! Some of the first round matchups are just murder!!!! I cannot believe how this came out.

I have published the bracket on Google Documents at: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pH3kFkBPtbf-48Vop1vmdLA

Among the nightmares awaiting us--

Elton Brand vs. Thomas Hill (incorrect) Chris Carawell
Chris Duhon vs. Mark Alarie
Gene Banks vs. Danny Ferry
Nate James vs. Wojo
JJ Redick vs. Billy King
Carlos Boozer vs. Trajan Langdon

And that is just in the first round people!! Arrgggh!! This may have been my worst idea ever.

--Jason "first two polls, 1 vs. 32 and 16 vs 17 will be up in moments" Evans

toughbuff1
10-22-2007, 11:11 AM
Jason,
I looked at your spreadsheet, and you have Thomas Hill listed twice. I think you skipped Chris Carawell.

JasonEvans
10-22-2007, 11:32 AM
Jason,
I looked at your spreadsheet, and you have Thomas Hill listed twice. I think you skipped Chris Carawell.

You are correct-- this has been corrected. The first round matchup is Brand vs. Cwell, not Brand vs. THill.

Yeah, that makes the choice muuuch easier!!!!!

--Jason "NOT!" Evans

throatybeard
10-22-2007, 01:27 PM
I really can't believe Brian Davis didn't make the elimination round.

monkey
10-22-2007, 06:29 PM
This seeding for the second round simply perpetuates problems with the first round - people who played in more difficult brackets got less votes than those in easier brackets. Plus, people in later polls in the first round would tend to suffer versus earlier polls because of people becoming more prolific in using strategic voting as the polls went on.

I'm not sure of a particular solution for this. I do know two things: (1) Dick Groat deserves more of a chance than to face Laettner in the second round. The guy _was_ Laettner before Laettner ever stepped on the court - the best player Duke ever had and (2) while I'm just a caveman, when a man like my client slips and falls on a sidewalk in front of a public library, then he is entitled to no less than two million in compensatory damages, and two million in punitive damages (head nod: Phil Hartman)

JasonEvans
10-22-2007, 09:31 PM
This seeding for the second round simply perpetuates problems with the first round - people who played in more difficult brackets got less votes than those in easier brackets. Plus, people in later polls in the first round would tend to suffer versus earlier polls because of people becoming more prolific in using strategic voting as the polls went on.

Why? Every poll was multiple choice and it appears most folks voted for multiple players in each poll. I could see some complaint that a player who finished 5th in a poll might have deserved to make the round of 32, but if a player fiished third in their poll with 75% of the vote they get a higher seed than someone who finished first with 70% of the vote. Why is this a problem?

As for the late round bias-- I thik the opposite. I think that as folks became used to the system they were more inclined to vote for favorite versus "saving their vote" for a lesser player. As a result, the very final poll had inflated results which is why Jason Williams got the highest vote total of anyone in the poll even though I think he is not all that strong a pick to win it (I make Battier, Hurley, Grant, and JD the top picks).

--Jason "thanks for the input though. I realize this is the worst type of polling possible... except all the others" Evans

throatybeard
10-22-2007, 09:38 PM
Don't hate Jason; appreciate.

At least we're not talking about 1A or 1Z.

JasonEvans
10-23-2007, 10:47 AM
JWill and Danny Ferry had advanced to the Sweet 16.

Jason won in a walk, 89.55% - 10.45%, though there were some great memories of Tate Armstrong posted in the voting thread. Even in the matchup of our #1 seed versus our #32 seed, there were a lot of folks torn about making this choice. I weep for what is to come!!

Ferry and Tink had a real battle. Ferry took an early lead by about ten votes and maintined it throughout, winning 56.45% to 43.55%. Up next for Ferry is a Sweet 16 matchup with JWill. Yikes!!

The spreadsheet has been updated (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pH3kFkBPtbf-48Vop1vmdLA) with the results of these first two polls.

--Jason "today's vote will be Duhon vs. Alarie and Gminski vs. Ewing" Evans

EarlJam
10-23-2007, 12:55 PM
I really can't believe Brian Davis didn't make the elimination round.

Agreed - big time. His passion for the game and for Duke was out the roof. And who can forget 1) his "dance" and smile after he made the layup agains UNLV and got fouled and 2) his hugging Coach K after the '91 title game and telling him, "We got if for you Coach! We got it for you baby!"

Brian Davis was special.

-Earljam

JBDuke
10-23-2007, 04:42 PM
While I encourage everyone to participate in what has become a much more fun exercise than I anticipated, please avoid ripping on our own guys. I know many folks here are particularly passionate about one player or another, but that's no reason to put down any current or former Blue Devil. ALL of these guys are worthy of our respect for their dedication and sacrifice. Be as vocal as you want in support of your favorites, but don't post rips on their "opponent".

EarlJam
10-23-2007, 05:16 PM
While I encourage everyone to participate in what has become a much more fun exercise than I anticipated, please avoid ripping on our own guys. I know many folks here are particularly passionate about one player or another, but that's no reason to put down any current or former Blue Devil. ALL of these guys are worthy of our respect for their dedication and sacrifice. Be as vocal as you want in support of your favorites, but don't post rips on their "opponent".

Totally agreed and apologies for posting the Alarie photo with the "Duhon/kittens" line. I seriously thought it was just good clean fun and really, was a good-natured poke at Dennard.

This whole thing has me pumped up and Jason has done an absolutely outstanding job managing this outstanding idea! I'm just all caught up in it.

-EarlJam - who loves all Duke players past, present, and future

wilson
10-23-2007, 10:52 PM
I really can't believe Brian Davis didn't make the elimination round.

Brian Davis was, is, always will be my favorite Blue Devil of all time. I didn't realize he hadn't made it until now. I certainly voted for him. This is utterly mystifying to me.

gw67
10-24-2007, 07:57 AM
As one who is tired of the neverending bashing of a couple of our current players, it is a pleasure to read so many positive comments about past players. It is particularly nice to read all the good words for Duhon who was bashed by many on this board during and after his junior year.

IMO, the EarlJam posts were funny and not a put down. The JBDuke comments should apply accross the board and not just be directed at this and other "favorite" polls. Just my two cents.

gw67

JasonEvans
10-24-2007, 10:06 AM
Our next 2 folks to advance to the Sweet 16 are Chris Duhon (in a war with Mark Alarie that Duhon win 51%-49%) and Mike Gminski. They will face off in the next round with the winner facing the winner of the JWill-Danny Ferry matchup.

-Jason "only one lower seed has won so far-- and that was the #17 vs. the #16" Evans

throatybeard
10-24-2007, 10:31 AM
Our next 2 folks to advance to the Sweet 16 are Chris Duhon (in a war with Mark Alarie that Duhon win 51%-49%) and Mike Gminski. They will face off in the next round with the winner facing the winner of the JWill-Danny Ferry matchup.

-Jason "only one lower seed has won so far-- and that was the #17 vs. the #16" Evans

Yeah but as we all know the #5 seed is upset-risky. I have the, um, #28 seed in my bracket.

weezie
10-24-2007, 09:14 PM
Late to the game here but, no mention of the great Terry Chili?!

Ah, the 70's... too much hair and too few baskets, but Terry was the man in '76.

CameronBlue
10-24-2007, 10:36 PM
Late to the game here but, no mention of the great Terry Chili?!

Ah, the 70's... too much hair and too few baskets, but Terry was the man in '76.

all he did was hit a game-winner against the Tar Holes. Oh well...still good fun.

RepoMan
10-25-2007, 10:48 AM
C-Well v Hurley in the next round--that is brutal.

Rich
10-25-2007, 11:13 AM
Are the brackets posted anywhere? I was somewhat surpised to see that Shane was a #2 seed.

mapei
10-25-2007, 10:26 PM
C-Well v Hurley in the next round--that is brutal.

That one's not close for me. Others will be tougher, methinks.

JasonEvans
10-26-2007, 10:34 AM
With the Round of 32 more than halfway done, I want to congratulate the following players for advancing to the Sweet 16:

JWill
Danny Ferry
Chris Duhon
Mike Gminski
Bobby Hurley
Chris Carrawell
Shelden Williams
Johnny Dawkins
Shane Battier
Nate James

We will do 3 more polls today and then 3 more over the weekend in the hope that we can start the Sweet 16 on Monday.

If you want to see how it all shapes up going forward, just consult the spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pH3kFkBPtbf-48Vop1vmdLA) on Google Documents.

--Jason "does anyone have trouble viewing the spreadsheet?" Evans

JasonEvans
10-29-2007, 09:02 AM
Well, the Round of 32 is done and if you thought there were tough choices in that round, get ready for some pain!!

Here are the matchups we will vote upon over the next several days in the Sweet 16:

#1 JWill vs. #17 Ferry
#8 Duhon vs. #9 Gminski
#5 Hurley vs. #21 Carrawell
#4 Dawkins vs. #13 Shelden

#2 Battier vs. #15 Bad!@#%
#7 JJ vs. #10 Amaker
#6 Laettner vs. #11 Spanarkel
#19 Langdon vs. #3 Grant Hill

We'll do two of these a day, but if one of the two appears to be a blowout, we will add a third that day.

--Jason "first Sw 16 polls go up in moments" Evans

JasonEvans
10-31-2007, 09:45 AM
By the way, the spreadsheet is continually updated so you can see the brackets and the vote totals all the time: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pH3kFkBPtbf-48Vop1vmdLA

I think it is interesting that after so many really close votes in the Round of 32, we have had pretty much all blowouts in the Sweet 16. Aside from Gminski and Duhon there has not been a race that was ever in any doubt. I mean, if you don't win with 70+% of the vote, you aren't even doing well in this round. Damn!

I think it is a sign that there really are 8 or so guys who stand out from the rest in the hearts of Duke fans. Am I crazy?

--Jason "JJ's thrashing of Amaker and JWill's crushing of Ferry really surprised me this round" Evans

Duke12
10-31-2007, 11:14 PM
My write in vote: Vince Taylor

JasonEvans
11-01-2007, 09:03 AM
And now the Final 8. Aside from Mike Gminski's fairly tight race with Chris Duhon it was blowout city in the Sweet 16. The matchups get really hard now. As always, you can see the whole thing by checking out the spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pH3kFkBPtbf-48Vop1vmdLA) but I'll post the 4 super-star matchups of the Great 8 here anyway:


Jason Williams vs. Mike Gminski
Bobby Hurley vs. Johnny Dawkins
Shane Battier vs. JJ Redick
Christian Laettner vs. Grant Hill


WOW!!

--Jason "Good luck making any of these choices" Evans

blazindw
11-01-2007, 10:42 AM
Amazing that the top 7 seeds made it to the Elite 8. The #8 seed, Duhon is the only one missing, having lost to the #9 seed, Gminski.

gep
11-01-2007, 02:33 PM
Amazing that the top 7 seeds made it to the Elite 8. The #8 seed, Duhon is the only one missing, having lost to the #9 seed, Gminski.

Also, Duhon/Gminski was the closest vote in the Sweet 16. This poll has been very interesting for me... I'm really enjoying it...:)

JasonEvans
11-03-2007, 12:26 PM
And then there were 4.

Our top 4 seeds have advanced to the semi-finals. While some might quibble with a player or two not making the initial round of 32 or with a player or two being seeded a tad too high or too low, I think this shows that our seedings were pretty darn close to being right on target.

I'll let the rest of today pass before getting the semi-finals started tomorrow. It will be Shane versus Grant and JWill versus JD. Good luck figuring out who to vote for!!

-Jason "as always, the spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pH3kFkBPtbf-48Vop1vmdLA) can be viewed and contains previous round results" Evans

mr. synellinden
11-03-2007, 10:15 PM
Maybe we should have the winner go against Singler. ;)

I love this guy. When I saw that youtube highlight video of the game against Oak Hill I knew he was special. I think he will be our best freshman player since Grant Hill - something I've been saying for a while.

wilson
11-06-2007, 08:21 AM
Since it's rather clear at this point that we're looking at Dawkins-Battier in the finals, when do we get to start, and how long will the finals run?

On a side note, does anyone have any reliable info as to whether any of the players/coaches have paid this poll any mind?

JasonEvans
11-06-2007, 09:10 AM
Since it's rather clear at this point that we're looking at Dawkins-Battier in the finals, when do we get to start, and how long will the finals run?

On a side note, does anyone have any reliable info as to whether any of the players/coaches have paid this poll any mind?

We will begin in minutes!!!

I will keep the final open until Friday, so you will have several days to vote.

I have no idea if anyone pays any attention to it. I sorta doubt it but it would be fun to imagine someone caring a little bit. There was a funny moment when Jay Bilas was facing Bobby Hurley in the round of 32 and someone remarked that even Jay had voted for Hurley ;)

--Jason "we are at the end of our long road... only two players remain" Evans

wilson
11-06-2007, 11:27 AM
There was a funny moment when Jay Bilas was facing Bobby Hurley in the round of 32 and someone remarked that even Jay had voted for Hurley ;)

--Jason "we are at the end of our long road... only two players remain" Evans

Perhaps he did, but we all know that that would just be because he always goes too far out of his way not to look like a homer.

Thanks for putting this together Jason...it's been interesting and fun.

JBDuke
11-06-2007, 05:16 PM
Perhaps he did, but we all know that that would just be because he always goes too far out of his way not to look like a homer.

Thanks for putting this together Jason...it's been interesting and fun.

Personally, I think it's just been a way for Evans to pad his post count. :D

Indoor66
11-07-2007, 08:37 AM
Personally, I think it's just been a way for Evans to pad his post count. :D

...Which if you look at the totals, truly NEEDS padding.... :)

Lord Ash
08-07-2011, 11:41 PM
You know, I always really appreciated the work Jason put into this thread, which was a lot of fun...

... but I do have to ask...

... should it be an every-five-year sort of thing? I mean... how can you have a favorite Dukie poll without Nolan, Kyle, and yes, big Z in it?:)

Sooo...?

juise
08-07-2011, 11:56 PM
You know, I always really appreciated the work Jason put into this thread, which was a lot of fun...

... but I do have to ask...

... should it be an every-five-year sort of thing? I mean... how can you have a favorite Dukie poll without Nolan, Kyle, and yes, big Z in it?:)

Sooo...?

All three were included in the nominations list (see post #2)... we just didn't know them as well in the fall of 2007. :)

Nolan would likely make the semifinals in my voting.

Lord Ash
08-08-2011, 12:06 AM
Ahhh good point:)

Oh, and of COURSE should have mentioned Jon. Lance too, really.

PADukeMom
08-08-2011, 10:40 AM
Nolan Smith
Trajan Langdon
Shane Battier
Jason Williams

JasonEvans
08-08-2011, 03:12 PM
You know, I always really appreciated the work Jason put into this thread, which was a lot of fun...

... but I do have to ask...

... should it be an every-five-year sort of thing? I mean... how can you have a favorite Dukie poll without Nolan, Kyle, and yes, big Z in it?:)

Sooo...?

Hmmmm....

It has been a while, but I suspect not a lot would change. I could see Nolan perhaps sneaking into the Final 8, partly due to recency (we have best memories of things more recent) but I doubt there would be many other significant changes.

It is a great activity for the summer, but summer is almost over and we are about to begin football season. As for hoops, we are going to have some exhibition games coming up soon and the start of regular season practice will be like 6 weeks away once we get done with the China games. I don't know if this is quite the right time for this.

Next summer... maybe Austin Rivers or Seth or a Plumlee make an appearance in this poll if we do it then ;)

-Jason "thanks for digging up this old thread... whew, this was a lot of work!" Evans

johnb
08-08-2011, 03:51 PM
I started to read this thread without looking at dates and immediately thought, "oh, Jason's re-doing the poll from a few years ago." And I was looking forward to voting again. And then I started seeing results, and it was only then that I realized the votes were 4 years ago.

Next summer, then.

At that time, perhaps a different measure than "favorite Duke player?" Maybe best evolution during a career? Best athlete? Favorite who never starred?