2016 NBA Summer League

[awhom111]

It starts on Saturday so I guess it is time to start a thread.

Marshall must already be making the Knicks move faster, because they were the first team to announce a roster this year and usually are a little slower with the move to Orlando probably being a factor:
http://www.nba.com/knicks/knicks-participate-orlando-pro-summer-league

David McClure and the Pacers have their roster too, although they may get rid of a few players before the league itself:
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/pacers-announce-rookie/free-agent-camp-roster

The Hornets have a roster:
http://www.nba.com/hornets/hornets-announce-2016-orlando-pro-summer-league-roster

The Magic have to stock two teams, but they are set:
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/magic-announce-2016-southwest-airlines-orlando-pro-summer-league-roster

The Clippers also have their roster:
http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/clippers-announce-orlando-pro-summer-league-roster-and-schedule

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Some of you guys will be surprised to note that UNC's Joel James is on the Pacer's roster and going to get a look.
He really improved his hands during his time at UNC, but they are still his biggest liability.
His professional future is likely overseas, but with his size and strength as a low post defender, hustle and ability to set solid screens, you just never know how he might fit on the right NBA team.
He won't likely score much at the rim against NBA caliber guys, not an explosive at all, but I'd say he's going to surprise people with his ability to hit face up shots, he has a soft shooting touch.

[CDu]

Some of you guys will be surprised to note that UNC's Joel James is on the Pacer's roster and going to get a look.
He really improved his hands during his time at UNC, but they are still his biggest liability.
His professional future is likely overseas, but with his size and strength as a low post defender, hustle and ability to set solid screens, you just never know how he might fit on the right NBA team.
He won't likely score much at the rim against NBA caliber guys, not an explosive at all, but I'd say he's going to surprise people with his ability to hit face up shots, he has a soft shooting touch.

Not all that surprised that he is on a summer league roster. About half the guys in summer league have no chance of playing in the NBA. There are maybe 4-6 guys on every team that have a real shot at the NBA. The rest are "convenience guys": either local kids, "friends of the program," favors to coaches/agents, or the like. One year Carlos Boozer's little brother was on the Bulls' summer league team.

I will be quite surprised if James sniffs an actual NBA roster. But nothing would surprise me about summer league participation.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Not all that surprised that he is on a summer league roster. About half the guys in summer league have no chance of playing in the NBA. There are maybe 4-6 guys on every team that have a real shot at the NBA. The rest are "convenience guys": either local kids, "friends of the program," favors to coaches/agents, or the like. One year Carlos Boozer's little brother was on the Bulls' summer league team.

I will be quite surprised if James sniffs an actual NBA roster. But nothing would surprise me about summer league participation.

Joel is a big, tough body. He will get looks and opportunities.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Joel is a big, tough body. He will get looks and opportunities.

It's a man's league and he plays strong.
As much as CDu wants to downplay James making a NBA summer league roster, they don't just ask anyone to come on out and play.
Summer league is mainly an evaluation tool for teams to see and judge players on the talent fringe, or players capable of filling a unique role a team might need...to see if there is a possible fit for their style of play.
With his strength/size and defense, I could see him making a roster in the right situation, sort of like Marshall Plumlee with his athleticism and rebounding...but both are going to have to prove something this summer to show they can help a team.
Just getting a contract to play for an NBA franchise, even in summer league, is a validation of their NBA potential and ability to play the game.

[jv001]

It's a man's league and he plays strong.
As much as CDu wants to downplay James making a NBA summer league roster, they don't just ask anyone to come on out and play.
Summer league is mainly an evaluation tool for teams to see and judge players on the talent fringe, or players capable of filling a unique role a team might need...to see if there is a possible fit for their style of play.
With his strength/size and defense, I could see him making a roster in the right situation, sort of like Marshall Plumlee with his athleticism and rebounding...but both are going to have to prove something this summer to show they can help a team.
Just getting a contract to play for an NBA franchise, even in summer league, is a validation of their NBA potential and ability to play the game.

I could see James as a pretty good defensive end or tackle. He's strong and pretty quick for his size. His bad hands would not be a liability in football. GoDuke!

[CDu]

It's a man's league and he plays strong.
As much as CDu wants to downplay James making a NBA summer league roster, they don't just ask anyone to come on out and play.
Summer league is mainly an evaluation tool for teams to see and judge players on the talent fringe, or players capable of filling a unique role a team might need...to see if there is a possible fit for their style of play.
With his strength/size and defense, I could see him making a roster in the right situation, sort of like Marshall Plumlee with his athleticism and rebounding...but both are going to have to prove something this summer to show they can help a team.
Just getting a contract to play for an NBA franchise, even in summer league, is a validation of their NBA potential and ability to play the game.

It is really not. Like I said, Carlos Boozer's little brother (who had absolutely zero chance of ever playing in the BBA made a summer league roster. There are numerous guys who get summer league spots that have no chance whatsoever of playing in the NBA.

As for James, it is possible that he was a davor pick. It is also possible that a team saw his size and said "what the hell, let's see if he can play." But the NBA is very much moving away from the big, slow centers, and more interested in guys with versatility and the ability to defend in space. Unless he proves otherwise with his play, I give James about a 0% chance of playing in the NBA. I say nearly the same about Plumlee, though Plumlee's athleticism at least gives him a chance of defending in space and could maybe stick on the back of a bench.

Remember, this is a guy who couldn't stick in the rotation on a college team that religiously believes in playing 4-5 bigs. Even with Plumlee, he has productive on the court as a high-energy hustle guy. James doesn't have mobility. That obviously makes him a defensive liability in the pick-and-roll game, but it also hurts him on offense because he won't be effective in a pick-and-roll game, and won't be effective as a baseline lurker. He might be effective in a pick-and-pop game, but there are lots of guys who do that well AND do other things too. And he has no post game, so he would really just be a pick-and-pop guy, and that is assuming he actually has a good shooting touch (his free throw % certainly doesn't suggest it).

With Plumlee, who I don't think will make it, he is a highly mobile, energetic but clumsy, above the rim guy with size but very limited skills and very limited shooting range. With James, he is a slow/immobile, energetic but clumsy, at or below below the rim guy with lots of size but very limited skills and (at least to date) limited shooting range. That does not bode well for him.

If he does magically start showing a shooting touch that he never showed in college, and somehow makes an NBA roster, then good for him. But I stand by my opinion that he has basically a 0% chance of playing in the NBA.

[elvis14]

But I stand by my opinion that he has basically a 0% chance of playing in the NBA.

I think you may be overestimating Joel's chances.

[awhom111]

In a possibly vain effort to drag the thread back to Duke...

Andre will play for the Mavericks along with these guys:
http://www.mavs.com/2016-mavericks-orlando-summer-league-roster/

Justise and the Heat roster:
http://www.nba.com/heat/heat-announce-summer-league-information-1

Of course, you never know how much a player who played a lot last season will feature in competitive action in this sort of thing. Presumably he will not see action in every game.

The Pistons also recently announced their roster:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/pistons/sites/default/files/summerleagueroster_2016-2.jpg

[jimsumner]

Joel James in the NBA.

Staggers the imagination.

They say it only takes one team to fall in love with you.

I wonder if that mythical team will fall in love with his ball skills. Did you know that James played 289 minutes last season without a single assist?

But he managed to keep his turnovers to 15.

He also committed 45 fouls in those 289 minutes.

So, we're talking about a career back-up who averaged 6.2 fouls in 40 minutes, not that his conditioning ever let him get in the same zip code as 40 minutes.

Maybe it's his improvement?

Oh wait, he actually played a career-low in MPG as a senior.

The look test?

Puh-lease. Did anyone ever watch Joel James in college and seriously think they were looking at a future NBA player?

Euro Leagues? Sure.

And his sister is pretty darn good. Look for her in the WNBA down the road.

But James and Wheat have about the same chance of ever suiting up in a regular-season NBA game.

That wore me out. I need a nap. :)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

How can CDu say that MP3 is a bad outside shooter? He finished his college career as a 100% 3-point shooter!:cool:

[MChambers]

Joel James in the NBA.

Staggers the imagination.

They say it only takes one team to fall in love with you.

I wonder if that mythical team will fall in love with his ball skills. Did you know that James played 289 minutes last season without a single assist?

But he managed to keep his turnovers to 15.

He also committed 45 fouls in those 289 minutes.

So, we're talking about a career back-up who averaged 6.2 fouls in 40 minutes, not that his conditioning ever let him get in the same zip code as 40 minutes.

Maybe it's his improvement?

Oh wait, he actually played a career-low in MPG as a senior.

The look test?

Puh-lease. Did anyone ever watch Joel James in college and seriously think they were looking at a future NBA player?

Euro Leagues? Sure.

And his sister is pretty darn good. Look for her in the WNBA down the road.

But James and Wheat have about the same chance of ever suiting up in a regular-season NBA game.

That wore me out. I need a nap. :)

So you're saying there's a chance?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Joel James in the NBA.

Staggers the imagination.

They say it only takes one team to fall in love with you.

I wonder if that mythical team will fall in love with his ball skills. Did you know that James played 289 minutes last season without a single assist?

But he managed to keep his turnovers to 15.

He also committed 45 fouls in those 289 minutes.

So, we're talking about a career back-up who averaged 6.2 fouls in 40 minutes, not that his conditioning ever let him get in the same zip code as 40 minutes.

Maybe it's his improvement?

Oh wait, he actually played a career-low in MPG as a senior.

The look test?

Puh-lease. Did anyone ever watch Joel James in college and seriously think they were looking at a future NBA player?

Euro Leagues? Sure.

And his sister is pretty darn good. Look for her in the WNBA down the road.

But James and Wheat have about the same chance of ever suiting up in a regular-season NBA game.

That wore me out. I need a nap. :)

I've been saying all along that he is a better player than you guys ever gave him credit for. I felt a little vindication when I saw him on the Pacers roster.

He can defend the post and we will see if he can shoot the mid range shot at that level off a pick and roll...he can set a pick.

Joel James has a guaranteed NBA contract ...even if it is for summer league.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it! :)

[Ichabod Drain]

I've been saying all along that he is a better player than you guys ever gave him credit for. I felt a little vindication when I saw him on the Pacers roster.

He can defend the post and we will see if he can shoot the mid range shot at that level off a pick and roll...he can set a pick.

Joel James has a guaranteed NBA contract ...even if it is for summer league.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it! :)

Is he a better player than Roy ever gave him credit for? He averaged 7.8 mpg in his senior season.

[budwom]

He'd have a shot if he had ANY mobility whatsoever, but he doesn't.

[UrinalCake]

I saw that our old friend JP Tokoto also made the Knicks' Summer league roster. So I guess it's true that anyone can make a summer league team 8-).

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Is he a better player than Roy ever gave him credit for? He averaged 7.8 mpg in his senior season.

Roy made him a better player. I'd say he knew exactly what he had in James and played him about what he deserved given his teammates play.

James is in great physical shape, has been for two years.

I'm not a stats guy, never have been. Rarely do stats tell the true story of a player and how they impact the game on the floor when discussing role players. That's the case here.

Joel James' play simply did not translate in college. Two different animals when comparing college to NBA style of play. Big man play in college is more about the finesse skill sets...and refs call a lot of fouls.
Other than his shooting touch, we will never describe Joel's game as anything close to finesse.

Despite the recent moves in the NBA for stretch bigs, there is still a place for big strong post defenders. It's all about strength in the NBA in the post. They don't call many body fouls in the NBA...and he will put a body on you and take offensive post players off balance.

His mobility is much better than some people give him credit for at his size, like I said...he's just "clunky" for lack of a better word.

Can he catch and shoot it well enough after setting a pick to keep defenders honest? That has to be answered if he's to have any hope of making an NBA team.

[JasonEvans]

Joel James has a guaranteed NBA contract ...even if it is for summer league.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it! :)

Well, except for the fact that... YOU DON'T GET PAID (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2015/7/15/8968401/players-payment-salary-financial-nba-summer-league-free-agents) TO PLAY IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE!!


Multiple league and team sources have reiterated that free agent Summer League participants do not get paid. Of course, room, board, and transportation is taken care of. What's more, athletes are also given a per diem to help mitigate food costs.

Basically, guys play in the summer league in the hope of getting a camp invite. Being on a training camp roster is a big prize, as those guys earn thousands of dollars a week. A player who makes it all the way through training camp and then spends the entire season in the D-League will earn over $100k.

-Jason "I realize that getting room and board/per diem is getting paid something, but the reality is that summer league guys don't exit summer league with any savings (unless they choose to eat cheap PB&J and save their per diem" Evans

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Well, except for the fact that... YOU DON'T GET PAID (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2015/7/15/8968401/players-payment-salary-financial-nba-summer-league-free-agents) TO PLAY IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE!!



Basically, guys play in the summer league in the hope of getting a camp invite. Being on a training camp roster is a big prize, as those guys earn thousands of dollars a week. A player who makes it all the way through training camp and then spends the entire season in the D-League will earn over $100k.

-Jason "I realize that getting room and board/per diem is getting paid something, but the reality is that summer league guys don't exit summer league with any savings (unless they choose to eat cheap PB&J and save their per diem" Evans

I learn something new every day...thanks for the info.

[awhom111]

Only one roster to add today:

Raptors:
http://www.nba.com/raptors/press-releases/summerleague-063016


Well, except for the fact that... YOU DON'T GET PAID (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2015/7/15/8968401/players-payment-salary-financial-nba-summer-league-free-agents) TO PLAY IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE!!



Basically, guys play in the summer league in the hope of getting a camp invite. Being on a training camp roster is a big prize, as those guys earn thousands of dollars a week. A player who makes it all the way through training camp and then spends the entire season in the D-League will earn over $100k.

-Jason "I realize that getting room and board/per diem is getting paid something, but the reality is that summer league guys don't exit summer league with any savings (unless they choose to eat cheap PB&J and save their per diem" Evans

Actually, being in training camp also does not necessarily mean getting paid more than the per diem either. It all depends on what you can agree to in your contract. For instance, Seth had $150,000 written into his deal with the Magic, but Andre had no money guaranteed when he was with the Heat that training camp. Of course, once he made the team at the start of the regular season he was paid an NBA salary. Given the money floating around this season, it is probably going to continue to be a player's market so I would not be surprised to see some players sign fully guaranteed deals (a whole year of NBA salary) and still get waived.

NBA Summer League is not just about impressing the NBA. Scouts and front office personnel from around the world will be headed to Las Vegas to look for players. Standouts who may not be NBA level will get offers from European teams before the end of the tournament and for some, it is a difficult decision on whether or not to sign then and give up on NBA training camp or hope to get an invite and eventually make the team. China and the Philippines will sign players later in the year, but they are starting their scouting process now. After the Las Vegas league, the Korean League holds its own tryouts and draft. There are tons of basketball personnel floating around Las Vegas at this time of year.

[awhom111]

Brandon's team:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/releases/160701summerleague_roster

Jahlil is on the mend of course, so he will not be playing for the Sixers:
http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/sixers-announce-summer-league-schedule-roster

The last Orlando roster from the Thunder:
http://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release_summerleague_160701

The Celtics could not even bother to create a list:
http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/pressrelease/celtics-announce-2016-summer-league-roster

Rockets:
http://www.nba.com/rockets/rockets-compete-samsung-nba-summer-league-2016

Nuggets:
http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/nuggets-announce-2016-nba-summer-league-roster-and-minicamp-schedule-070116

Suns:
http://www.nba.com/suns/press-release/suns-announce-nba-summer-league-2016-roster

Here is your Saturday schedule (times ET, games on both NBATV and ESPN3):
Thunder vs Mavericks (Andre) 9am
Hornets vs Magic White 11am
Magic Blue vs Pacers 1pm
Knicks (Marshall) vs Pistons 3pm
Heat (Justise) vs Clippers 5pm

[-jk]

Thanks for the updates!

(And I still think you're a 'bot....)

-jk

[brevity]

Here is your Saturday schedule (times ET, games on both NBATV and ESPN3):
Knicks (Marshall) vs Pistons 3pm

You neglected to mention Marshall's teammate: J.P. Tokoto.

I caught the last few minutes of the Knicks-Pistons game on NBA TV. Some would call it torture. I call it destiny.

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks began their highly anticipated Summer League run with a small setback against the Detroit Pistons, who eked out a 81-49 win. Stanley Johnson led all scorers with 15 points, and was one of five Detroit players to finish with double digits.

But the real story was the exciting return of Summer League legend J.P. Tokoto, who played for the Philadelphia 76ers last summer. "J.P. Tokoto set the tone for our whole 2015-16 season," said former 76ers general manager Sam Hinkie. "I consider myself a true believer, but he really made me doubt the process."

Tokoto continued his shooting streak today, hitting one of his 7 field goal attempts, and going 0-for-1 from 3-point range. "He's like the opposite of Steph Curry," tweeted celebrity Knicks fan Larry David. "I prefer that from a player, because I sit courtside and I would rather not have a wet mouthguard thrown at my face."

Marshall Plumlee, who was not drafted but signed a rookie deal with the Knicks, said that having Tokoto as a teammate has given him more confidence. "I see J.P. out there, playing his game, and it makes me realize that I can totally do this."

The Knicks return to the court Sunday to face the Miami Heat.

[jacone21]

I watched almost the whole Knicks/Pistons game. Man, that Knicks summer league team was awful. Turnovers, bad shots, bad defense... you name it. Ugly. But Marshall had a couple of bright spots. He was surprisingly aggressive looking for his offense. He hit a couple of jumpers and had an awesome face up, first step, dribble, running sky hook move across the lane. After the hook shot, Greg Anthony said something like, "if Plumlee can make moves like that, he might find a spot on the roster!"

Marshall didn't rebound with the kind of effort I thought he would, though. He had several rebounds get away from him. If he had torn it up on the boards and gotten putbacks on a few of his teammates' ridiculous number of bricks, he would have had a very nice game.

Overall, though, he had a nice outing. He also led the team in high fives, low fives, fist pounds, and help-ups.

[dukelifer]

Brice Johnson needed a Roy benching in his debut. Finally scoring in garbage time but when the Winslow led Heat was playing hard, Johnson really struggled.

[awhom111]

Pelicans:
http://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/pelicans-announce-2016-samsung-nba-summer-league-roster-and-mini-camp-schedule

Spurs (Utah league only):
http://www.nba.com/spurs/spurs-announce-2016-utah-summer-league-roster

Warriors:
http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/2016-summer-league-roster-schedule

Andre led the Mavericks with 16 points in 21 minutes, but they lost to the Thunder 86-85. If anybody else cares about this besides me, Cory Jefferson did pick up 7 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160702/OKCDAL/gameinfo.html

The weaker Magic team beat the Hornets 79-74.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160702/CHAORW/gameinfo.html

The Pacers beat the stronger Magic team 93-66.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160702/ORBIND/gameinfo.html

Marshall had 6 points in 23 minutes as the Knicks lost 81-49. Michael Gbinije had 10 points and 7 rebounds in 33 minutes.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160702/NYKDET/gameinfo.html

Justise led all scorers with 21 points in 28 minutes.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160702/MIALAC/gameinfo.html

Sunday's Games (all times ET, all games on NBATV and ESPN3):

Pacers vs Hornets, 1pm
Heat (Justise) vs Knicks (Marshall), 3pm
Clippers vs Thunder, 5pm

[Dukeford]

No Quin Cook in summer league?

[dukelifer]

You neglected to mention Marshall's teammate: J.P. Tokoto.

I caught the last few minutes of the Knicks-Pistons game on NBA TV. Some would call it torture. I call it destiny.

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks began their highly anticipated Summer League run with a small setback against the Detroit Pistons, who eked out a 81-49 win. Stanley Johnson led all scorers with 15 points, and was one of five Detroit players to finish with double digits.

But the real story was the exciting return of Summer League legend J.P. Tokoto, who played for the Philadelphia 76ers last summer. "J.P. Tokoto set the tone for our whole 2015-16 season," said former 76ers general manager Sam Hinkie. "I consider myself a true believer, but he really made me doubt the process."

Tokoto continued his shooting streak today, hitting one of his 7 field goal attempts, and going 0-for-1 from 3-point range. "He's like the opposite of Steph Curry," tweeted celebrity Knicks fan Larry David. "I prefer that from a player, because I sit courtside and I would rather not have a wet mouthguard thrown at my face."

Marshall Plumlee, who was not drafted but signed a rookie deal with the Knicks, said that having Tokoto as a teammate has given him more confidence. "I see J.P. out there, playing his game, and it makes me realize that I can totally do this."

The Knicks return to the court Sunday to face the Miami Heat.
Tokoto is on his way to 15M a year in the new NBA.

[CDu]

No Quin Cook in summer league?

I am sure he will play on somebody's summer league team. There are three different summer leagues (Orlando, Utah, and Las Vegas). Vegas is the big one. Many teams have not yet announced their rosters.

[SilkyJ]

Roy made him a better player. I'd say he knew exactly what he had in James and played him about what he deserved given his teammates play.

James is in great physical shape, has been for two years.

I'm not a stats guy, never have been. Rarely do stats tell the true story of a player and how they impact the game on the floor when discussing role players. That's the case here.

Joel James' play simply did not translate in college. Two different animals when comparing college to NBA style of play. Big man play in college is more about the finesse skill sets...and refs call a lot of fouls.


Well this is certainly true for big men. Duke has had their fair share of post players who have average stats as role players, but go on to collect paychecks in the League. Shavlik, Miles, and Lance never averaged even 8ppg and found ways to stick in the league.

I don't think Joel James is quite as good as those guys, but I would have never thought Shav or Lance would collect NBA paychecks for multiple years (Miles' freak athleticism always gave him a shot, though he was a surprise as well.)

[CDu]

Shockingly Joel James did not play a minute in the Pacers' first summer league game.

[Bob Green]

Andre led the Mavericks with 16 points in 21 minutes, but they lost to the Thunder 86-85.

http://www.nba.com/games/20160702/OKCDAL/gameinfo.html



Thanks for the update!

I keep holding out hope Andre will make and stick on a NBA roster.

[arnie]

Shockingly Joel James did not play a minute in the Pacers' first summer league game.

Using Roy's approach - don't showcase his variety of skills and keep other teams out of bidding war for his services. Right wheat?

[CDu]

Using Roy's approach - don't showcase his variety of skills and keep other teams out of bidding war for his services. Right wheat?

The Pacers definitely must be slow-playing their hand. Joel James failed to appear in their second Summer League game, too.

[Wander]

Well this is certainly true for big men. Duke has had their fair share of post players who have average stats as role players, but go on to collect paychecks in the League. Shavlik, Miles, and Lance never averaged even 8ppg and found ways to stick in the league.

All three of those guys were waaaaaaaaaaay better than Joel James in college (which I note you acknowledge in your next sentence). Lance started for a national championship team!

Joel James must have the lowest ratio of "quality of player" to "amount discussed on DBR" ever.

[brevity]

Shockingly Joel James did not play a minute in the Pacers' first summer league game.


The Pacers definitely must be slow-playing their hand. Joel James failed to appear in their second Summer League game, too.

I thought he might have been cut from the Summer League roster before going to Orlando, or injured. But these tweets suggest that at least one guy close to Joel James expected him to play:

tarheelron (https://twitter.com/44_ronnie/status/749651911633203200) ‏@44_ronnie

Roy Williams in Orlando to watch, and support Joel James

10:11 AM - 3 Jul 2016

Scott Agness (https://twitter.com/ScottAgness/status/749657463012618240) ‏@ScottAgness

.@UNC_Basketball coach Roy Williams sitting by the Pacers' bench, here to see former Tar Heel Joel James (12).

10:34 AM - 3 Jul 2016

John Robinson (https://twitter.com/johnrobinson/status/749679759697653761) ‏@johnrobinson

Watched a Pacers summer league game to see Joel James play. Nope. 2 hours I'll never get back. Now the Knicks & @AirPierreTokoto #GoHeels

12:02 PM - 3 Jul 2016

ETA: I'm now at a desktop computer, and I can see Joel James in the NBA.com box score, with a "DNP-Coach's Decision." The mobile version of the same site did not list him yesterday or today.

[NSDukeFan]

I thought he might have been cut from the Summer League roster before going to Orlando, or injured. But these tweets suggest that at least one guy close to Joel James expected him to play:

tarheelron (https://twitter.com/44_ronnie/status/749651911633203200) ‏@44_ronnie

Roy Williams in Orlando to watch, and support Joel James

10:11 AM - 3 Jul 2016

Scott Agness (https://twitter.com/ScottAgness/status/749657463012618240) ‏@ScottAgness

.@UNC_Basketball coach Roy Williams sitting by the Pacers' bench, here to see former Tar Heel Joel James (12).

10:34 AM - 3 Jul 2016

John Robinson (https://twitter.com/johnrobinson/status/749679759697653761) ‏@johnrobinson

Watched a Pacers summer league game to see Joel James play. Nope. 2 hours I'll never get back. Now the Knicks & @AirPierreTokoto #GoHeels

12:02 PM - 3 Jul 2016

ETA: I'm now at a desktop computer, and I can see Joel James in the NBA.com box score, with a "DNP-Coach's Decision." The mobile version of the same site did not list him yesterday or today.
They might be saving him for the playoffs?

[NSDukeFan]

All three of those guys were waaaaaaaaaaay better than Joel James in college (which I note you acknowledge in your next sentence). Lance started for a national championship team!

Joel James must have the lowest ratio of "quality of player" to "amount discussed on DBR" ever.

Would Nate Britt be second?

[brevity]

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks continue to make an impression in the 2016 NBA Summer League in Orlando, following up Saturday's 81-49 loss to the Pistons with a 74-48 loss to the Miami Heat today. Ron Baker, an undrafted rookie who recently graduated from Wichita State, led the Knicks with 12 points in their losing effort.

But again the star of the show was J.P. Tokoto, who scorched the court with 7 points on 3-of-8 shooting. True to form, he missed his lone 3-point attempt, but he still finished with a rare septuple single, adding 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 3 fouls, and 4 turnovers.

It was a Tar Heel reunion of sorts, with North Carolina head coach Roy Williams in attendance and Vince Carter providing commentary on NBA TV. "There's so much money in this league now. If the Knicks are smart, they will sign J.P. Tokoto to their regular season roster immediately," said Carter. "He can hit as many threes this season as Allan Houston will, and the Knicks are still paying Allan Houston, right?"

Williams, in town to support the golf course industry, was reminded that his former players Tokoto, Joel James, and Brice Johnson were scheduled to play Summer League games today, and came to watch. "Daggum Pacers can't give Joel James one friggin' minute to play. Are you kiddin' me? I got so pissed I left the gym, and... what? Tokoto? I didn't see him. I was already on the third hole by then."

Marshall Plumlee, who added 8 points and 7 rebounds in the loss, was caught on camera making a visible reaction to something Tokoto said as the game was ending. He later explained: "Tokoto told me 'it's like Coach Williams always says, Next Play' and I got angry. Coach Williams? Next Play? I mean, what the f..."

[awhom111]

Marshall had 8 points and 7 rebounds in 23 minutes as the Knicks lost 74-48 to the Heat. Justise, like the other veteran on the team, is not expected to play every single game and both were rested here.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160703/MIANYK/gameinfo.html

The early game featured some fouls as Georges Niang picked up 7 in a 80-70 loss by the Pacers to the Hornets.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160703/INDCHA/gameinfo.html

The late game also had plenty of fouling as the Thunder beat the Clippers 81-72. Diamond Stone managed the 10 foul disqualification in less than 18 minutes. Greg Stiemsma got to 7 fouls in minimal time and Brice Johnson got to 7 by playing most of the game.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160703/LACOKC/gameinfo.html

Monday's Games (all times ET, all games on NBATV and ESPN3):

Mavericks (Andre) vs Magic White, 1pm
Magic Blue vs Pistons, 3pm
Hornets vs Thunder, 5pm
Celtic vs Sixers, 7pm
Spurs vs Jazz, 9pm

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Using Roy's approach - don't showcase his variety of skills and keep other teams out of bidding war for his services. Right wheat?

James is a young kid getting every ounce out of his potential and is working hard to find just where his peak is.

Some of you guys can't see a person or the player he is because of the color of his jersey, and that's pitiful.

Here's a nice article (http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=210506190) about this kid. Take a little time and read it, you might just find a different perspective about him.

Like everyone else, I doubt he'll ever make an NBA team. But, I'm pulling for him.

And, btw, I'm pulling for Marshall too. Like James, he's done everything a coach or fan can ask and worked hard to improve his game.

Rivalries over a game don't have to make people be so snotty, imo.

[Dukeford]

James is a young kid getting every ounce out of his potential and is working hard to find just where his peak is.

Some of you guys can't see a person or the player he is because of the color of his jersey, and that's pitiful.

Here's a nice article (http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=210506190) about this kid. Take a little time and read it, you might just find a different perspective about him.

Like everyone else, I doubt he'll ever make an NBA team. But, I'm pulling for him.

And, btw, I'm pulling for Marshall too. Like James, he's done everything a coach or fan can ask and worked hard to improve his game.

Rivalries over a game don't have to make people be so snotty, imo.

Nice story about Joel. I enjoyed reading it.

[CDu]

James is a young kid getting every ounce out of his potential and is working hard to find just where his peak is.

Some of you guys can't see a person or the player he is because of the color of his jersey, and that's pitiful.

Here's a nice article (http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=210506190) about this kid. Take a little time and read it, you might just find a different perspective about him.

Like everyone else, I doubt he'll ever make an NBA team. But, I'm pulling for him.

And, btw, I'm pulling for Marshall too. Like James, he's done everything a coach or fan can ask and worked hard to improve his game.

Rivalries over a game don't have to make people be so snotty, imo.

This isn't hating on James. I have no issue with him as a person - heck, much like most players I know nothing about him other than the quality of his bball game. The posts in this thread regarding James are strictly poking fun of your repetitive suggestions over the years that he is a good player, despite the glaring evidence that he is not a very good player.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

This isn't hating on James. I have no issue with him as a person - heck, much like most players I know nothing about him other than the quality of his bball game. The posts in this thread regarding James are strictly poking fun of your repetitive suggestions over the years that he is a good player, despite the glaring evidence that he is not a very good player.

My years of "repetitive suggestions" evidently still have not convinced you that the kid has some game. And NBA GM's giving him a shot...guys who are paid at the highest level for their opinions of a players potential impact on the court...isn't enough either, right?

He's bad, huh?
Most reasonable people would have a hard time understanding how a "bad" player, as you call him, could ever get invited to try out for an NBA team...they must be idiots?

Maybe he's just not "bad", but limited at this point with some potential and you are just wrong?

The glaring evidence here is you are too stubborn to admit that you have underestimated his game over the years and his potential...and just can't admit it.

[kshepinthehouse]

My years of "repetitive suggestions" evidently still have not convinced you that the kid has some game. And NBA GM's giving him a shot...guys who are paid at the highest level for their opinions of a players potential impact on the court...isn't enough either, right?

He's bad, huh?
Most reasonable people would have a hard time understanding how a "bad" player, as you call him, could ever get invited to try out for an NBA team...they must be idiots?

Maybe he's just not "bad", but limited at this point with some potential and you are just wrong?

The glaring evidence here is you are too stubborn to admit that you have underestimated his game over the years and his potential...and just can't admit it.

What "shot" has this GM given him? He hasn't played a single minute in summer league action where players with so called "potential" get time on the court to prove their value. I'll give you that James is a big body. Good player? Not so much.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What "shot" has this GM given him? He hasn't played a single minute in summer league action where players with so called "potential" get time on the court to prove their value. I'll give you that James is a big body. Good player? Not so much.

His shot is his spot on the roster. Not everybody gets that, even some very good players don't get invited to participate in summer league evaluation games.

I don't know why he didn't play the first game. Maybe he's got an injury? Maybe they just wanted to see another player in a specific match up? Who knows?

If a NBA team is looking for a big guy to play active and smart, own his court space among men with strength, set picks, defend the post and shoot face up shots with some range, he "might" be able to fill that role. We'll see...

[gep]

His shot is his spot on the roster. Not everybody gets that, even some very good players don't get invited to participate in summer league evaluation games.

I don't know why he didn't play the first game. Maybe he's got an injury? Maybe they just wanted to see another player in a specific match up? Who knows?

If a NBA team is looking for a big guy to play active and smart, own his court space among men with strength, set picks, defend the post and shoot face up shots with some range, he "might" be able to fill that role. We'll see...

I have to agree with Wheat here. More so, that article he linked was great. Joel James is a great kid. The fact that he's even on a summer league roster is nothing to sneeze at. Most probably he doesn't go further. But he will go much further in life. Isn't that the "real" goal?

[Furniture]

I have to agree with Wheat here. More so, that article he linked was great. Joel James is a great kid. The fact that he's even on a summer league roster is nothing to sneeze at. Most probably he doesn't go further. But he will go much further in life. Isn't that the "real" goal?

I agree too. Sometimes the color of the university jersey blinds us to the realities of life. Good luck to Joel.

[CDu]

My years of "repetitive suggestions" evidently still have not convinced you that the kid has some game. And NBA GM's giving him a shot...guys who are paid at the highest level for their opinions of a players potential impact on the court...isn't enough either, right?

He's bad, huh?
Most reasonable people would have a hard time understanding how a "bad" player, as you call him, could ever get invited to try out for an NBA team...they must be idiots?

Maybe he's just not "bad", but limited at this point with some potential and you are just wrong?

The glaring evidence here is you are too stubborn to admit that you have underestimated his game over the years and his potential...and just can't admit it.

He was not given a spot on a summer league roster because of his game. He doesn't have s game. He was - at best - given a spot on a summer league roster because he has a big body and a team was willing to see if there was game to go with it. And the resounding answer so far appears to be "no". It is also quite possible that he was given a spot as a gift to an agent/coach. This sort of thing happens all the time in summer league (where there are usually only 6-8 spots given to actual prospects), and is why we saw Carlos Boozer's little bro on a summer league roster.

James may be a great young man. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other. All I have ever talked about with James is his basketball game, which apparently still does not exist. Just as it didn't exist during his four years at UNC. For some reason you latched on to him and have kept pubbing him despite all the evidence to the contrary. He is simply not an ACC caliber player, and absolutely not an NBA caliber player.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

He was not given a spot on a summer league roster because of his game. He doesn't have s game. He was - at best - given a spot on a summer league roster because he has a big body and a team was willing to see if there was game to go with it. And the resounding answer so far appears to be "no". It is also quite possible that he was given a spot as a gift to an agent/coach. This sort of thing happens all the time in summer league (where there are usually only 6-8 spots given to actual prospects), and is why we saw Carlos Boozer's little bro on a summer league roster.

James may be a great young man. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other. All I have ever talked about with James is his basketball game, which apparently still does not exist. Just as it didn't exist during his four years at UNC. For some reason you latched on to him and have kept pubbing him despite all the evidence to the contrary. He is simply not an ACC caliber player, and absolutely not an NBA caliber player.

Dude, you should just give it up...and btw, commenting that "James may be a great young man. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other" says a lot about your objectivity here.

You don't seem to recognize that good character, team first attitude, willingness to scrap and do the dirty work inside, means a lot to team when they evaluate a player for a specific role, (basically "enforcer"), as they are doing with James.

Also, you do realize he did ACTUALLY play 4 years in the ACC, right? He started some games and contributed to a team that went to the national championship game and won ACC titles...etc.

How you can possibly justify claiming he's "not an ACC caliber player" makes you just look silly to the board. Of course he was.

I get it. You see how he's not a smooth, run and jump athletic player and think that translates into not being a good player. You are wrong. Good players can come in all sizes and playing styles...from Manute Bol to Muggsy Bogues.

I'd bet if you were a big man and had Joel defending you at the rim you might think differently. And he defended other big men in college very well.
Or maybe if you were a wing player and had to fight thru one of his screens then you'd see what the NBA guys see...size, strength mobility and toughness...with an interesting soft shooting touch for a big guy.

At his size, he can impact a play and there are not a lot of players out there like him. If his hands were better he'd have a real shot.

[CDu]

Dude, you should just give it up...and btw, commenting that "James may be a great young man. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other" says a lot about your objectivity here.

You don't seem to recognize that good character, team first attitude, willingness to scrap and do the dirty work inside, means a lot to team when they evaluate a player for a specific role, (basically "enforcer"), as they are doing with James.

Also, you do realize he did ACTUALLY play 4 years in the ACC, right? He started some games and contributed to a team that went to the national championship game and won ACC titles...etc.

How you can possibly justify claiming he's "not an ACC caliber player" makes you just look silly to the board.

I get it. You see how he's not a smooth, run and jump athletic player and think that translates into not being a good player. You are wrong. Good players can come in all sizes and playing styles...from Manute Bol to Muggsey Bouges.

I'd bet if you were a big man and had him defending you at the rim you might think differently. And he defended other big men in college very well.
Or maybe if you were a wing player and had to fight thru one of his screens then you'd see what the NBA guys see...size, strength mobility and toughness...with an interesting soft shooting touch for a big guy.

At his size, he can impact a play and there are not a lot of players out there like him. If his hands were better he'd have a real shot.

My not caring whether he is a good person off the court says nothing about my objectivity. I would say the same about any Duke player too. We are evaluating basketball players here. Michael Jordan was a borderline sociopath, but is widely considered the best player ever. He was one of my favorite players. I didn't know, nor did I care that he was an absolute jerk. I watched him because of his basketball skills, not his personality. Is it nice when a great player is also a great person? Absolutely. But that is a secondary consideration when analyzing a player's game.

As for James, he simply was not ACC caliber. In four years, his career high mpg was 10.1. He averaged over 5 fouls per 40 minutes every single year. Despite being huge, he never shot 50% from the field after his freshman year. And you touted his role on the team that made it to the title game. Seriously? He played atotal of 18 minutes... in the entire NCAA tourney.

The only reason James got any run was because he played for a coach who strictly believes in a two-big lineup. So UNC played him to the detriment of their success, when going smaller would have made them more dangerous. He is a big body with basketball skills not sufficient to compete in the ACC. And it has nothing to do with his style. There are plenty of herky-jerky players who are/were ACC caliber. Luke Schenscher comes to mind. Kris Lang too. James is just not one of them.

[sagegrouse]

Dude, you should just give it up...and btw, commenting that "James may be a great young man. I have no idea, nor do I care one way or the other" says a lot about your objectivity here.

You don't seem to recognize that good character, team first attitude, willingness to scrap and do the dirty work inside, means a lot to team when they evaluate a player for a specific role, (basically "enforcer"), as they are doing with James.

Also, you do realize he did ACTUALLY play 4 years in the ACC, right? He started some games and contributed to a team that went to the national championship game and won ACC titles...etc.

How you can possibly justify claiming he's "not an ACC caliber player" makes you just look silly to the board. Of course he was.

I get it. You see how he's not a smooth, run and jump athletic player and think that translates into not being a good player. You are wrong. Good players can come in all sizes and playing styles...from Manute Bol to Muggsy Bogues.

I'd bet if you were a big man and had Joel defending you at the rim you might think differently. And he defended other big men in college very well.
Or maybe if you were a wing player and had to fight thru one of his screens then you'd see what the NBA guys see...size, strength mobility and toughness...with an interesting soft shooting touch for a big guy.

At his size, he can impact a play and there are not a lot of players out there like him. If his hands were better he'd have a real shot.


My not caring whether he is a good person off the court says nothing about my objectivity. I would say the same about any Duke player too. We are evaluating basketball players here. Michael Jordan was a borderline sociopath, but is widely considered the best player ever. He was one of my favorite players. I didn't know, nor did I care that he was an absolute jerk. I watched him because of his basketball skills, not his personality. Is it nice when a great player is also a great person? Absolutely. But that is a secondary consideration when analyzing a player's game.

As for James, he simply was not ACC caliber. In four years, his career high mpg was 10.1. He averaged over 5 fouls per 40 minutes every single year. Despite being huge, he never shot 50% from the field after his freshman year. And you touted his role on the team that made it to the title game. Seriously? He played atotal of 18 minutes... in the entire NCAA tourney.

The only reason James got any run was because he played for a coach who strictly believes in a two-big lineup. So UNC played him to the detriment of their success, when going smaller would have made them more dangerous. He is a big body with basketball skills not sufficient to compete in the ACC. And it has nothing to do with his style. There are plenty of herky-jerky players who are/were ACC caliber. Luke Schenscher comes to mind. Kris Lang too. James is just not one of them.


I like both of you, but my opinion is that you guys should "give it a rest," or at least take your conversation to PM's.

Kindly,
Sage

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I like both of you, but my opinion is that you guys should "give it a rest," or at least take your conversation to PM's.

Kindly,
Sage

No problem, I had already decided after that last post to just move on...

[allenmurray]

No problem, I had already decided after that last post to just move on...

1. Wheat comes onto a Duke board to sing the praises of a former UNC player.
2. Duke fans are less than enthusiastic.
3. Wheat takes offense and storms off in a huff.

Haven't we seen this movie before?

I think it was called, "Attack of the Troll" or something like that. And the folks on DBR watch it over and over and over, alwasy wondering why it never gets any better.

[slower]

1. Wheat comes onto a Duke board to sing the praises of a former UNC player.
2. Duke fans are less than enthusiastic.
3. Wheat takes offense and storms off in a huff.

Haven't we seen this movie before?

I think it was called, "Attack of the Troll" or something like that. And the folks on DBR watch it over and over and over, alwasy wondering why it never gets any better.

Yeah, by now most of us know how almost every thread that has Wheat as an ingredient will turn out.

However, Wheat DID say that James' role would be "enforcer." And we know he can play "Dean Smith" defense, right? Isn't he the guy who slyly moved under Okafor, who then injured his ankle? There's got to be huge value for a big man who can injure star players on the other team. He can probably do that while guarding at least 3 different positions.

[grad_devil]

Funny fact: Devin Thomas (he of Wake Forest infamy) just sat pretzeled up a few rows from me on my flight from Atlanta to Minneapolis. (Is he playing on a summer league team up here? Perhaps he's connecting to his final destination.)

Funnier fact: across the aisle from me (an exit row) were three empty seats.

[brevity]

Funny fact: Devin Thomas (he of Wake Forest infamy) just sat pretzeled up a few rows from me on my flight from Atlanta to Minneapolis. (Is he playing on a summer league team up here? Perhaps he's connecting to his final destination.)

Funnier fact: across the aisle from me (an exit row) were three empty seats.

Cool! An ACC sighting.

I've never had a similar encounter at an airport or on an airplane, but I've often seen Tyler Hansbrough traveling.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

1. Wheat comes onto a Duke board to sing the praises of a former UNC player.
2. Duke fans are less than enthusiastic.
3. Wheat takes offense and storms off in a huff.

Haven't we seen this movie before?

I think it was called, "Attack of the Troll" or something like that. And the folks on DBR watch it over and over and over, alwasy wondering why it never gets any better.

I "stormed off"?

I'm right here to make my points.

The conversation with CDu was going nowhere and had run its course, as sagegrouse pointed out, so I was ready to move on.

And it's beyond lame to show up and try to label me a troll just because you don't like my opinions when I take the time to reasonably present them to board members.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Yeah, by now most of us know how almost every thread that has Wheat as an ingredient will turn out.

However, Wheat DID say that James' role would be "enforcer." And we know he can play "Dean Smith" defense, right? Isn't he the guy who slyly moved under Okafor, who then injured his ankle? There's got to be huge value for a big man who can injure star players on the other team. He can probably do that while guarding at least 3 different positions.

By "enforcer"I meant a physical player, nothing dirty intended.

[77devil]

By "enforcer"I meant a physical player, nothing dirty intended.

Your mistake is noted.

[slower]

By "enforcer"I meant a physical player, nothing dirty intended.
Ok - understood.

[Furniture]

Wheat just expresses another point of view. Just because he's a fan of another fan of another shade of blue the bashing/bullying is relentless. I read so many complaints on this forum about UNC fans being unreasonable and us Duke fans are just perfect.
Some people should really take a look in the mirror

[slower]

Wheat just expresses another point of view. Just because he's a fan of another fan of another shade of blue the bashing/bullying is relentless. I read so many complaints on this forum about UNC fans being unreasonable and us Duke fans are just perfect.
Some people should really take a look in the mirror

Oh, please. Wheat knows exactly where he is, what he's doing and what the results will be.

[elvis14]

Wheat just expresses another point of view. Just because he's a fan of another fan of another shade of blue the bashing/bullying is relentless. I read so many complaints on this forum about UNC fans being unreasonable and us Duke fans are just perfect.
Some people should really take a look in the mirror

Sometimes this might be true but in this case it is not. CDu is using facts/stats to back up his valid points. I don't care which shade of blue or red or orange you support the stats and the eye test on James just don't add up to NBA player or even effective ACC player. If he's a good young man (who simply made a poor choice of college) then good for him for getting good seats to NBA summer games.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Sometimes this might be true but in this case it is not. CDu is using facts/stats to back up his valid points. I don't care which shade of blue or red or orange you support the stats and the eye test on James just don't add up to NBA player or even effective ACC player. If he's a good young man (who simply made a poor choice of college) then good for him for getting good seats to NBA summer games.

CDu's valid points? Please.

Like when CDu smugly declares Joel James is not an ACC quality player...AFTER HE PLAYED 4 years in the ACC on one of the best teams in the conference? That fact?

Or downplaying and disrespecting the fact that an NBA team thinks enough of his game to offer him a roster spot for further evaluation? That fact?

Joel James can do some things on the court that translate better for the professional game than college. That's a valid point.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Oh, please. Wheat knows exactly where he is, what he's doing and what the results will be.

The results are often the same because the same 4-5 posters follow me around and just stir the pot, not debate a point.

I don't learn anything from people that always agree with me. That's why I come around.

[awhom111]

I am starting to think I should start a thread for things that happen in actual games...

Andre had 5 points in 13 minutes as the Mavericks lost to the weaker Magic team 92-85. Cory Jefferson had his second straight seven foul game in the loss and Kevin Murphy picked up seven for the other team.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160704/DALORW/gameinfo.html

Michael Gbinije did not play as the Pistons beat the stronger Magic team 73-68. Alex Poythress picked up seven fouls in less than nine minutes in the loss.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160704/ORBDET/gameinfo.html

The Hornets beat the Thunder 78-74 although other things were the focus of course.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160704/CHAOKC/gameinfo.html

The first game of the Utah league was supposed to be a battle of top picks, but it became Ben Simmons cramps watch and there were plenty of veteran players as well as the Celtics beat the Sixers 102-94. R.J. Hunter had seven fouls in the win.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160704/BOSPHI/gameinfo.html

The Jazz lost to the Spurs 90-69 to close the day.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160704/SASUTA/gameinfo.html

Tuesday's Games (all times ET, all games ESPN3, live on NBATV unless otherwise noted):
Magic Blue vs Heat (Justise?), 1pm
Clippers vs Knicks (Marshall), 3pm
Pistons vs Pacers, 5pm, tape delayed on NBATV at 9pm
Sixers vs Spurs, 5pm
Celtics vs Jazz, 7pm

[Furniture]

Sometimes this might be true but in this case it is not. CDu is using facts/stats to back up his valid points. I don't care which shade of blue or red or orange you support the stats and the eye test on James just don't add up to NBA player or even effective ACC player. If he's a good young man (who simply made a poor choice of college) then good for him for getting good seats to NBA summer games.

Becoming a Duke fan in 2009 when my daughter enrolled at Duke changed my life. Coach K and the way he leads his team and the way he behaves is inspiring. I couldn't imagine Coach K being anything other than gracious and complimentary about Joel James. I would like to think that other Duke fans would follow his example. I cant imagine in a discussion with Roy, K being so derogatory and dismissive of his point of view.

[brevity]

No Quin Cook in summer league?


I am sure he will play on somebody's summer league team. There are three different summer leagues (Orlando, Utah, and Las Vegas). Vegas is the big one. Many teams have not yet announced their rosters.

Alex Kennedy (https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749721732429275136) @AlexKennedyNBA

Quinn Cook to play for D-League Select Team in Summer League. He was D-League ROY (19.6 PPG, 5.4 APG, 3.9 RPG 1.2 SPG, 46.6% FG, 38.2% 3PT).

2:49 PM - 3 Jul 2016

ETA: According to the D-League website (http://dleague.nba.com/news/samsung-nba-summer-league-2016-nba-d-league-select-team-schedule/), Quinn's team is scheduled to play in Las Vegas against Memphis, Milwaukee, and Houston.

[slower]

The results are often the same because the same 4-5 posters follow me around and just stir the pot, not debate a point.

I don't learn anything from people that always agree with me. That's why I come around.

Dude, nobody "follows you around." You just happen to show up in threads and hijack it into something UNC-related.

This is a DUKE site with a DUKE bias. You may be a decent guy - all indications point in this direction. :)

HOWEVER, fandom comes (in many/most cases) with its inherent emotional component. Whether it's unconscious, subconscious or conscious, YOU are usually the one who stirs the pot. Some of us are just more willing to state the obvious than other more polite/oblivious posters.

Regardless, the mods give you a huge amount of leeway and, my prior comments notwithstanding, most of us are happy to have you here when you're not unnecessarily causing friction. Cheers!

[Wander]

Becoming a Duke fan in 2009 when my daughter enrolled at Duke changed my life. Coach K and the way he leads his team and the way he behaves is inspiring. I couldn't imagine Coach K being anything other than gracious and complimentary about Joel James. I would like to think that other Duke fans would follow his example. I cant imagine in a discussion with Roy, K being so derogatory and dismissive of his point of view.

I think you're confusing public appearances and private conversations. Yes, we're lucky to have a coach (of the men's team anyway, grumble) who says all the right things and is a great leader and a gracious winner and loser and all that stuff in addition to being a brilliant basketball mind. But when Coach K is meeting with his assistant coaches behind closed doors for the UNC game, I am sure they all admit that Joel James is not an ACC quality player and game plan accordingly.

If we all spoke like coaches do in public appearances, the boards wouldn't generally have very interesting conversations.

[CDu]

The results are often the same because the same 4-5 posters follow me around and just stir the pot, not debate a point.

I don't learn anything from people that always agree with me. That's why I come around.

Just as an FYI, I was not going to respond anymore on this, but for the calling of me by name in the post below. I've only been debating in this thread with you, not stirring the pot. You brought up James with very much a "stir the pot" post. Everything I've been posting has been a counterpoint in a debate. Not sure why you think I'm stirring the pot and not debating.


CDu's valid points? Please.

Like when CDu smugly declares Joel James is not an ACC quality player...AFTER HE PLAYED 4 years in the ACC on one of the best teams in the conference? That fact?

If you want plain ole' debate and not controversy, perhaps you should steer clear of insults like the bolded? And yes, my points on James are valid. James played four years of ACC basketball. But the quality of his play for those four years was just a bit below ACC quality (as evidenced by all the stats I posted). Which is perhaps why he never earned more than 10 mpg, even on a team that religiously plays a two-big lineup. And that's not meant to be an insult. If he were to play at a mid-major, he'd be just fine. He just wasn't quite good enough for the ACC level.


Or downplaying and disrespecting the fact that an NBA team thinks enough of his game to offer him a roster spot for further evaluation? That fact?

It is not a fact that a team thinks enough of his game to offer him a summer league roster spot. It is your opinion that this is why he got the spot. I have pointed out the other possibilities: that it is a favor to an agent/coach (which absolutely does happen quite often in summer league); or that they saw his body and hoped there was untapped or unseen potential in it.

Perhaps you don't follow the NBA Summer League very closely. It would certainly be understandable to not realize that the ends of these rosters can have all kinds of folks on them. I've pointed out that Carlos Boozer's brother "played" on at least one summer league roster. His stats at Iowa State were very comparable to James' UNC stats.

Not everyone who goes to summer league is there for his game. Considering that James never really showed much game in college suggests it is at the very least plausible that he falls in this category. It is certainly also possible that he got a look because he is 6'10" and 280, and a team wanted a free look to see if there was any skill there. But there's very little evidence to suggest that "his game" is what got him the invite.


Joel James can do some things on the court that translate better for the professional game than college. That's a valid point.

I wonder if you don't watch much of the NBA, but if anything James' game is less likely to translate to the NBA. In college, you can play zone defense freely and you can camp out in the paint defensively even in man-to-man. In the NBA, zone is almost never used (the shooters are too good) and you can't camp out in the lane defensively. And even if you could camp out in the lane defensively, every team knows how to exploit a liability defensively. They would run ball screens and get James isolated on a guard, and James would either give up layup drills or foul out. And many of the big men in the NBA are good enough shooters from 15 feet that James can't just camp out down there. In college, in theory a big body like James should be able to dominate on the blocks. Especially at a school like UNC, which emphasizes post play more than most college or pro teams. Not so in the NBA, where every team has a guy comparable in size and strength to James.

James' lack of mobility and coordination led him to shoot well under 50% from the field (which is hard to do for a big man who doesn't shoot from the perimeter) and to commit fouls at an excessive rate. That would only get exploited ten-fold in the NBA.

This is again not meant to be a criticism of James as a person. It's just a reflection of the limitations of his basketball game with respect to ACC play and the NBA. And before you jump to me being biased, I got criticized by some on DBR for giving a similarly harsh critique of DeMarcus Nelson's chances in the NBA (in short: I felt he had little-to-no chance of making it because he had the skill set of a SF/PF with the height of a PG).

[Wheat/"/"/"]

CDu,
You and I have a strong difference of opinion on this issue, and we've both made our points and should move on as sagegrouse suggested.

Btw, you are not one of the guys who just jumps in when I post to pile on, you at least argue your points and we generally have respectful,spirited debate when we disagree.

I'll apologize for the "smugly" comment, it was unnecessary. I was a little set off by being basically called a troll....again...by the same poster who's done it before... showed up out of the blue, and offered nothing to our conversation.

Movin' on...

[dukelifer]

CDu,
You and I have a strong difference of opinion on this issue, and we've both made our points and should move on as sagegrouse suggested.

Btw, you are not one of the guys who just jumps in when I post to pile on, you at least argue your points and we generally have respectful,spirited debate when we disagree.

I'll apologize for the "smugly" comment, it was unnecessary. I was a little set off by being basically called a troll...again...by the same poster who's done it before... showed up out of the blue, and offered nothing to our conversation.

Movin' on...

Wheat

I don't know you but I do appreciate your dedication to your team and its players. We all share being passionate fans. I enjoy your posts and perspective. I also do not know CDu - but I respect his basketball knowledge and insight. One of the main reasons to come to this board is to get intelligent discourse on a subject we all like. I can't say I know much about James as a player. I think I read that he is a latecomer to basketball. He is a huge body who played at UNC and that is probably the reason he is getting some attention. But I am not sure he is an NBA prospect at this point. He was certainly worth recruiting to UNC but his on court performance was definitely below average- but mainly because he is still learning. His size can't be taught - and if he works hard- you never know. But his chances are very low for making it given the nature of the sport. I think that was the main point.

[JNort]

CDu's valid points? Please.

Like when CDu smugly declares Joel James is not an ACC quality player...AFTER HE PLAYED 4 years in the ACC on one of the best teams in the conference? That fact?

Or downplaying and disrespecting the fact that an NBA team thinks enough of his game to offer him a roster spot for further evaluation? That fact?

Joel James can do some things on the court that translate better for the professional game than college. That's a valid point.

Why does it matter he played 4 years in the acc? Still doesn't make him ACC caliber.

[phaedrus]

Why does it matter he played 4 years in the acc? Still doesn't make him ACC caliber.

Indeed, and there are plenty of Duke examples, too. Patrick Davidson played four years in the ACC, but that doesn't mean the ACC was Patrick Davidson-caliber.

[JasonEvans]

Why does it matter he played 4 years in the acc? Still doesn't make him ACC caliber.

I'm confused... if playing 4 years in the ACC doesn't make you ACC caliber, what does? It isn't like he played 4 years riding the deep bench for BC or some other bottom feeder either. No, he wasn't a major key player for UNC, but he did more than warm the pine.

The problem is obviously our differing definitions of "ACC caliber." Some would say merely being on an ACC team's roster (not walk-ons) makes you ACC caliber; some would say you need to be a rotation player; and some may say you need to be a starter or at least one of the top couple guys off the bench. James qualifies under the first 2 categories but not the third. Personally, I think the third is a bit high but I can see how others would feel that is where, "ACC caliber" should be defined.

It may be worth noting that James likely would have played a significantly larger role on some of the lesser ACC teams. If he was on BC or Va Tech or Ga Tech the past couple years, I bet he would have more more like a 15-20 minute per game player and might have scored more like 5-8 points per game. Playing on a Carolina team that was pretty loaded in the post likely cost him minutes... does it also cost him the qualification of being "ACC caliber?"

-Jason "regardless, if Joel James even makes a NBA training camp, I will be quite surprised as we are talking about a kid who never averaged more than 2.5 ppg in his career" Evans

[JNort]

Ben Simmons was having one of his typical games until he started cramping

[sagegrouse]

I'm confused... if playing 4 years in the ACC doesn't make you ACC caliber, what does? It isn't like he played 4 years riding the deep bench for BC or some other bottom feeder either. No, he wasn't a major key player for UNC, but he did more than warm the pine.

-Jason "regardless, if Joel James even makes a NBA training camp, I will be quite surprised as we are talking about a kid who never averaged more than 2.5 ppg in his career" Evans

What's a bit odd is that he averaged 9.4 MPG as a freshman but averaged only 8.8 MPG over four years. Likewaise, his scoring (2.2) and rebounds (2.3) changed little over his time at UNC. Maybe it's just Roy's deep rotation.

I was wondering if he was more like the late Geoff Compton, the massive immobile center from the 1970's, who played little at UNC IIRC, but did get to ride the pines in the NBA for four years. Anyway, I got nothing against Joel James and wish him well.

[Wander]

The problem is obviously our differing definitions of "ACC caliber." Some would say merely being on an ACC team's roster (not walk-ons) makes you ACC caliber; some would say you need to be a rotation player; and some may say you need to be a starter or at least one of the top couple guys off the bench. James qualifies under the first 2 categories but not the third. Personally, I think the third is a bit high but I can see how others would feel that is where, "ACC caliber" should be defined.


Well, it'd be a pretty useless definition if it was just being on an ACC team, right? I think it means that a player would be in the top 7 or 8 guys at a majority of ACC schools.

Boston College might be the worst team in ACC history, so playing 15-20 minutes there wouldn't indicative of anything. To open a new debate on semantics, Boston College was not an ACC caliber team.

[David Bunkley]

Ben Simmons was having one of his typical games until he started cramping

So, he had one of his typical games then?

[awhom111]

Tyus has his teammates revealed:
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-summer-league-roster-0

Almost all the rosters have been announced:
Nets:
http://www.nba.com/nets/news/2016/07/04/brooklyn-nets-announce-summer-league-roster
Cavaliers:
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/summer-league-roster-2016
Bucks:
http://www.nba.com/bucks/release/bucks-announce-2016-summer-league-roster
Wizards:
https://wizardstoday.monumentalsportsnetwork.com/2016/07/05/washington-wizards-announce-summer-league-roster
Pelicans:
http://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/pelicans-announce-2016-samsung-nba-summer-league-roster-and-mini-camp-schedule
Grizzlies:
http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/summer-league-roster-160705
Kings:
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-announce-2016-nba-summer-league-roster
Trailblazers:
http://www.nba.com/blazers/trail-blazers-2016-summer-league-roster

Justise had 15 points in 26 minutes as the Heat beat the stronger Magic team 84-68.
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-summer-league-roster-0

Marshall had 7 points and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes as the Knicks scored all the points in overtime to beat the Clippers 92-84. Brice Johnson had a solid game, but also had 8 fouls and 8 turnovers.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/LACNYK/gameinfo.html

Apparently Michael Gbinije picked up an injury earlier so he missed another game for the Pistons as they beat the Pacers 80-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/DETIND/gameinfo.html

In Utah, the Sixers resumed tanking by resting their big names in a 95-91 loss to the Spurs.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/PHISAS/gameinfo.html

The Celtics beat the Jazz 89-82 as Olivier Hanlan probably found out that he would be traded right before the game. I wonder if he will join the Spurs mid-league now.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/BOSUTA/gameinfo.html

Tuesday's Games (all times ET, all games on ESPN3 and NBATV):
Magic White vs Knicks (Marshall), 1pm
Mavericks (Andre) vs Hornets, 3pm
Pacers vs Thunder, 5pm

[kshepinthehouse]

Just as an FYI, I was not going to respond anymore on this, but for the calling of me by name in the post below. I've only been debating in this thread with you, not stirring the pot. You brought up James with very much a "stir the pot" post. Everything I've been posting has been a counterpoint in a debate. Not sure why you think I'm stirring the pot and not debating.



If you want plain ole' debate and not controversy, perhaps you should steer clear of insults like the bolded? And yes, my points on James are valid. James played four years of ACC basketball. But the quality of his play for those four years was just a bit below ACC quality (as evidenced by all the stats I posted). Which is perhaps why he never earned more than 10 mpg, even on a team that religiously plays a two-big lineup. And that's not meant to be an insult. If he were to play at a mid-major, he'd be just fine. He just wasn't quite good enough for the ACC level.



It is not a fact that a team thinks enough of his game to offer him a summer league roster spot. It is your opinion that this is why he got the spot. I have pointed out the other possibilities: that it is a favor to an agent/coach (which absolutely does happen quite often in summer league); or that they saw his body and hoped there was untapped or unseen potential in it.

Perhaps you don't follow the NBA Summer League very closely. It would certainly be understandable to not realize that the ends of these rosters can have all kinds of folks on them. I've pointed out that Carlos Boozer's brother "played" on at least one summer league roster. His stats at Iowa State were very comparable to James' UNC stats.

Not everyone who goes to summer league is there for his game. Considering that James never really showed much game in college suggests it is at the very least plausible that he falls in this category. It is certainly also possible that he got a look because he is 6'10" and 280, and a team wanted a free look to see if there was any skill there. But there's very little evidence to suggest that "his game" is what got him the invite.



I wonder if you don't watch much of the NBA, but if anything James' game is less likely to translate to the NBA. In college, you can play zone defense freely and you can camp out in the paint defensively even in man-to-man. In the NBA, zone is almost never used (the shooters are too good) and you can't camp out in the lane defensively. And even if you could camp out in the lane defensively, every team knows how to exploit a liability defensively. They would run ball screens and get James isolated on a guard, and James would either give up layup drills or foul out. And many of the big men in the NBA are good enough shooters from 15 feet that James can't just camp out down there. In college, in theory a big body like James should be able to dominate on the blocks. Especially at a school like UNC, which emphasizes post play more than most college or pro teams. Not so in the NBA, where every team has a guy comparable in size and strength to James.

James' lack of mobility and coordination led him to shoot well under 50% from the field (which is hard to do for a big man who doesn't shoot from the perimeter) and to commit fouls at an excessive rate. That would only get exploited ten-fold in the NBA.

This is again not meant to be a criticism of James as a person. It's just a reflection of the limitations of his basketball game with respect to ACC play and the NBA. And before you jump to me being biased, I got criticized by some on DBR for giving a similarly harsh critique of DeMarcus Nelson's chances in the NBA (in short: I felt he had little-to-no chance of making it because he had the skill set of a SF/PF with the height of a PG).

I agree with the above whole-heartedly and that pretty much sums up the chances of James in the NBA. His size would be more helpful in college than the NBA. 20 years ago teams would have taken him strictly due to his size but in today's small ball era his size would be more of a detriment in my opinion. If he couldn't succeed at the college level at that size he would only be that much worse in the NBA.

[MCFinARL]

Alex Kennedy (https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749721732429275136) @AlexKennedyNBA

Quinn Cook to play for D-League Select Team in Summer League. He was D-League ROY (19.6 PPG, 5.4 APG, 3.9 RPG 1.2 SPG, 46.6% FG, 38.2% 3PT).

2:49 PM - 3 Jul 2016

ETA: According to the D-League website (http://dleague.nba.com/news/samsung-nba-summer-league-2016-nba-d-league-select-team-schedule/), Quinn's team is scheduled to play in Las Vegas against Memphis, Milwaukee, and Houston.

So, what is the implication of being on the D-League Select Team? Does that mean he will get seen by a lot of teams, which could be a good thing, or does it mean no team was interested enough in him to sign him to a summer league contract? Or neither?

[awhom111]

So, what is the implication of being on the D-League Select Team? Does that mean he will get seen by a lot of teams, which could be a good thing, or does it mean no team was interested enough in him to sign him to a summer league contract? Or neither?

It's doubtful that there were no teams willing to have him so it was likely a choice.

The advantage is that playing time is strictly a meritocracy although everyone is likely to play at least a bit. You may have a summer league team lined up that seems like a good fit for playing time, but then that team drafts a point guard in the first round. Guess which player gets to be the starting point guard in that case even if Quinn is better. All teams do of course look at the players on other teams so there is no outright disadvantage there. Teams may even be more likely to make contact and an offer afterwards since they may not feel like he would be biased towards any particular team in advance.

The disadvantage is that no one team gets a big look at him. Obviously there are some practices and other team activities besides the game where teams can judge other things like how well a player learns new systems and how coachable they are. Looking back at the 2015 roster, it does not appear that any of the players ended up in the NBA:
http://dleague.nba.com/news/2015-nba-dleague-select-team-roster-summer-league-las-vegas/

[brevity]

Marshall had 7 points and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes as the Knicks scored all the points in overtime to beat the Clippers 92-84. Brice Johnson had a solid game, but also had 8 fouls and 8 turnovers.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/LACNYK/gameinfo.html

Just "a solid game"? You haven't stated the whole story...

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks won their first game of the 2016 NBA Summer League with a thrilling 92-84 overtime win against the Los Angeles Clippers. Chasson Randle, who graduated from Stanford in 2015 and played professionally in the Czech Republic last season, led all scorers with 24 points.

But the real draw of the game was seeing former North Carolina stars J.P. Tokoto and Brice Johnson facing off, and the matchup lived up to the hype. Tokoto, playing for the Knicks, scored 13 points on 5-of-16 shooting. He missed both of his 3-point attempts, but he finished an alley-oop pass from Ron Baker that tied the game in regulation. "That was such a clutch play by Tokoto," tweeted Villanova basketball player Kris Jenkins. "That despondent look on Brice Johnson's face reminded me of... something."

Johnson scored a team-high 23 points in the Clippers loss. Attending the game was Rich Cho, general manager of the Charlotte Hornets, who later expressed his enjoyment with the matchup in a live postgame interview in the NBA TV broadcast booth. "J.P. Tokoto versus Brice Johnson? You're talking about the two greatest Tar Heel basketball players of all time battling against each other, and I had a front row seat," he said. "I can say without reservation that... can you excuse me? I have a phone call... hey, it's Michael... hello, sir, I was just telling... you saw that? Right, I know, I just meant that... you want me to... um, okay... sorry, I need to stop the interview and, um, go now."

Marshall Plumlee, who had 7 points and 6 rebounds in the win, said he received congratulatory text messages from his older brothers Miles and Mason, both of whom already play in the NBA during the regular season. "They said there was a new hero in the family, and his name is J.P. Tokoto. I think they were teasing me, but I need to make alternate Thanksgiving plans just in case."

The Knicks face the Orlando Magic white squad Wednesday.

NOTES: Apparently I'm not the only one writing hyperbolic stories about the Knicks and the 2016 Summer League. An SB Nation article titled "Chasson Randle leading the Summer League team to victory was the greatest performance in Knicks history (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/7/5/12102212/chasson-randle-leading-the-summer-league-team-to-victory-was-the)" calls Randle the "new god of Summer League," and sets aside some credit for Tokoto:


J.P. Tokoto had his moments as well, despite shooting the worst floaters I have ever seen. He could really be something if he learned not to spazz out when driving into traffic.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Tyus has his teammates revealed:
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-summer-league-roster-0

Almost all the rosters have been announced:
Nets:
http://www.nba.com/nets/news/2016/07/04/brooklyn-nets-announce-summer-league-roster
Cavaliers:
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/summer-league-roster-2016
Bucks:
http://www.nba.com/bucks/release/bucks-announce-2016-summer-league-roster
Wizards:
https://wizardstoday.monumentalsportsnetwork.com/2016/07/05/washington-wizards-announce-summer-league-roster
Pelicans:
http://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/pelicans-announce-2016-samsung-nba-summer-league-roster-and-mini-camp-schedule
Grizzlies:
http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/summer-league-roster-160705
Kings:
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-announce-2016-nba-summer-league-roster
Trailblazers:
http://www.nba.com/blazers/trail-blazers-2016-summer-league-roster

Justise had 15 points in 26 minutes as the Heat beat the stronger Magic team 84-68.
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-summer-league-roster-0

Marshall had 7 points and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes as the Knicks scored all the points in overtime to beat the Clippers 92-84. Brice Johnson had a solid game, but also had 8 fouls and 8 turnovers.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/LACNYK/gameinfo.html

Apparently Michael Gbinije picked up an injury earlier so he missed another game for the Pistons as they beat the Pacers 80-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/DETIND/gameinfo.html

In Utah, the Sixers resumed tanking by resting their big names in a 95-91 loss to the Spurs.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/PHISAS/gameinfo.html

The Celtics beat the Jazz 89-82 as Olivier Hanlan probably found out that he would be traded right before the game. I wonder if he will join the Spurs mid-league now.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160705/BOSUTA/gameinfo.html

Tuesday's Games (all times ET, all games on ESPN3 and NBATV):
Magic White vs Knicks (Marshall), 1pm
Mavericks (Andre) vs Hornets, 3pm
Pacers vs Thunder, 5pm

How are the Magic a stronger team than the Heat Summer league team? The Heat have Justice for one thing, then J Richardson and Weber who will all get significant minutes next season. They have also been murdering the competition by almost 20 points a game. Just curious what you mean by that. Even if you mean stronger as in pure power, I think Justice negates any of that.

[Ichabod Drain]

How are the Magic a stronger team than the Heat Summer league team? The Heat have Justice for one thing, then J Richardson and Weber who will all get significant minutes next season. They have also been murdering the competition by almost 20 points a game. Just curious what you mean by that. Even if you mean stronger as in pure power, I think Justice negates any of that.

There are two summer league teams for the Magic.Orlando Blue and Orlando White. I think he meant the stronger of those two.

[tbyers11]

Just "a solid game"? You haven't stated the whole story...

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks won their first game of the 2016 NBA Summer League with a thrilling 92-84 overtime win against the Los Angeles Clippers. Chasson Randle, who graduated from Stanford in 2015 and played professionally in the Czech Republic last season, led all scorers with 24 points.

But the real draw of the game was seeing former North Carolina stars J.P. Tokoto and Brice Johnson facing off, and the matchup lived up to the hype. Tokoto, playing for the Knicks, scored 13 points on 5-of-16 shooting. He missed both of his 3-point attempts, but he finished an alley-oop pass from Ron Baker that tied the game in regulation. "That was such a clutch play by Tokoto," tweeted Villanova basketball player Kris Jenkins. "That despondent look on Brice Johnson's face reminded me of... something."

Johnson scored a team-high 23 points in the Clippers loss. Attending the game was Rich Cho, general manager of the Charlotte Hornets, who later expressed his enjoyment with the matchup in a live postgame interview in the NBA TV broadcast booth. "J.P. Tokoto versus Brice Johnson? You're talking about the two greatest Tar Heel basketball players of all time battling against each other, and I had a front row seat," he said. "I can say without reservation that... can you excuse me? I have a phone call... hey, it's Michael... hello, sir, I was just telling... you saw that? Right, I know, I just meant that... you want me to... um, okay... sorry, I need to stop the interview and, um, go now."

Marshall Plumlee, who had 7 points and 6 rebounds in the win, said he received congratulatory text messages from his older brothers Miles and Mason, both of whom already play in the NBA during the regular season. "They said there was a new hero in the family, and his name is J.P. Tokoto. I think they were teasing me, but I need to make alternate Thanksgiving plans just in case."

The Knicks face the Orlando Magic white squad Wednesday.

NOTES: Apparently I'm not the only one writing hyperbolic stories about the Knicks and the 2016 Summer League. An SB Nation article titled "Chasson Randle leading the Summer League team to victory was the greatest performance in Knicks history (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/7/5/12102212/chasson-randle-leading-the-summer-league-team-to-victory-was-the)" calls Randle the "new god of Summer League," and sets aside some credit for Tokoto:

I can't spork you but just wanted to drop a note that I love your "hyperbolic" JP Tokoto summer league recaps. Although it looks like you have some serious competition.

[ChillinDuke]

I can't spork you but just wanted to drop a note that I love your "hyperbolic" JP Tokoto summer league recaps. Although it looks like you have some serious competition.

Seconded.

I laugh out loud as soon as I read "ORLANDO, FL. --".

- Chillin

[Furniture]

Looked like Marshall was hurt in the Knicks game with Orlando. He had a big bag of ice on his knee at the end of the game. Anyone see it or have any info?

[brevity]

Looked like Marshall was hurt in the Knicks game with Orlando. He had a big bag of ice on his knee at the end of the game. Anyone see it or have any info?

I saw it. Looked like a standard play. Marshall set a screen, I think, and Orlando's Patricio Galino (defending a NY player dribbling past Marshall) mildly collided with him, stepping on Marshall's foot and colliding with his knee. Marshall winced, and Galino kept going, unaware of any effect.

Marshall sat down on the sidelines and the trainer came to him immediately. A minute or so later NBA TV showed Marshall leaving the room on his own.

[awhom111]

Here are Quinn's D League Select teammates:
http://dleague.nba.com/news/nba-dleague-select-roster-schedule-2016/

Since technically they have have the last choice of players, we can now officially declare the teams that have not announced rosters to be very late. The Bulls and Hawks need to get moving.

Marshall had 3 points in 20 minutes before leaving as the Knicks lost 95-90 to the weaker Magic team.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160706/ORWNYK/gameinfo.html

Andre had 9 points in 25 minutes as the Mavericks beat the Hornets 84-81.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160706/DALCHA/gameinfo.html

The Thunder beat the Pacers 89-71. Joel James played 7 minutes and committed a foul thus invalidating half of the posts on this thread. :rolleyes:
http://www.nba.com/games/20160706/INDOKC/gameinfo.html

Thursday's Games (all times ET, all games on ESPN3 and NBATV):
Mavericks (Andre) vs Magic Blue, 1pm
Clippers vs Magic White, 3pm
Pistons vs Heat (Justise), 5pm
Celtics vs Spurs, 7pm
Sixers vs Jazz, 9pm


How are the Magic a stronger team than the Heat Summer league team? The Heat have Justice for one thing, then J Richardson and Weber who will all get significant minutes next season. They have also been murdering the competition by almost 20 points a game. Just curious what you mean by that. Even if you mean stronger as in pure power, I think Justice negates any of that.

As mentioned above, I was trying to distinguish between the two Magic teams since Blue and White are kind of non-specific. Orlando loads all of their veterans and draft picks onto the same team so I label that team their stronger team. Weaker may be a misnomer since that team is undefeated while the team with the NBA guys has lost all their games.

[brevity]

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks finished their Summer League run Wednesday with a 95-90 loss to the Orlando Magic white squad. Despite a 1-3 record, they scored 90 or more points for the second consecutive game, after failing to reach 50 points in either of their first two games. Ron Baker led all scorers with 22 points, and Chasson Randle added 17.

But the visiting fans and NBA TV viewers are focused on star power, and J.P. Tokoto did not disappoint. Tokoto scored 13 points in back-to-back games, but did so more efficiently against the Magic, with 4-of-6 shooting and a stunning 1-for-2 from long distance. Tokoto's 3-pointer rocked the Amway Center, and also the Twittersphere. "The NBA finally let J.P. Tokoto score a three," tweeted Ayesha Curry, sister-in-law of recent Dallas Mavericks free agent signee Seth Curry. "Don't tell me the Summer League isn't rigged."

Attending the game was ESPN college basketball commentator Dick Vitale, who made a rare offseason trek away from his home in Tampa just to see Tokoto in person. "In my mind, J.P. Tokoto is already an elite NBA player! And when you start talking about the all-time NBA greats, mark my words: J.P. Tokoto will be in the Top Five!" he exclaimed. "I'm telling you, you've got Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Jerry West -- the logo! Then you've got Earvin "Magic" Johnson, the hick from French Lick, Larry Bird! Hakeem "the Dream" Olajuwon, and a little Shaq-Fu, baby! Shaquille O'Neal! And let's not forget Timmy Duncan, who might be retiring but I hope he gives us just one more season -- gotta do an even 20, Timmy!"

"I see Kobe Bryant, who really did retire this season, right up there," Vitale continued. "And another Longevity Laker, Mr. Lew Alcindor, aka Kareem Abdul-Jabbar! What about Sir Charles Barkley? Or his fellow Sixer Dr. J? And we can't overlook some of the active players, like LeBron James, Dwyane Wade! And then you add J.P. Tokoto. That's it! My Top Five all-time NBA players!"

Vitale also spoke enthusiastically about Tokoto's marketability. "You get the rookie contract, and that's a good amount of money, but you see these companies, these big corporations, they put these guys in commercials, and it's because they're great guys. And let me tell you: J.P. Tokoto is a great guy. No one cares about his players more than Roy Williams. I talk to everyone over at ESPN, and you never hear any hint of a scandal down in Chapel Hill. And that hair! Tokoto has a great head of hair on that smart noggin. Why don't you share some of that hair, J.P.? I'm an old man, I'm balding over here!"

"When you look at Phil Jackson, the Zen Master, putting the pieces together in New York, he has some tough decisions to make," Vitale added. "Does he keep Carmelo Anthony knowing that he has J.P. Tokoto ready to dominate? What a problem to have! They are loaded up in the Big Apple, baby! The first eleven rings were tough to get, but the next eleven should be easy!"

Marshall Plumlee, who left the game in the fourth quarter with a bandaged knee, said he was glad to get some rest after the Summer League grind. "I can get a lot done while I'm healing. Work out some, review game tape, learn new plays, and maybe call Dick Vitale and explain to him how numbers work."

J.P. Tokoto, who insists on maintaining his privacy and does not give postgame interviews, was overheard celebrating after the game, saying "I'm going to Disney World!" to his Uber driver.

[nmduke2001]

"Marshall Plumlee's 3-year deal with the Knicks is fully guaranteed in the first season, sources confirm. The 6-11 Plumlee played on the Knicks' Summer League team and should give the Knicks depth on the front line. His brothers are NBAers Mason and Miles Plumlee." -per ESPN.

[awhom111]

Rasheed and the Bulls team:
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/summerleague/bulls-announce-2016-nba-summer-league-roster

Andre had 14 points in 20 minutes as the Maverick lost 96-94 to the stronger Magic team.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160707/DALORB/gameinfo.html

The weaker Magic team beat the Clippers 79-69. Arinze Onuaku had 7 fouls in the win only to be outdone by Brice Johnson's 8 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160707/LACORW/gameinfo.html

Justise had 13 points in 32 minutes as the Heat lost to the Pistons 71-58
http://www.nba.com/games/20160707/DETMIA/gameinfo.html

The last day of games in Orlando will be based on the standings of games and quarters won during the first four games.

The final day in Utah started with the Celtics beating the Spurs 87-86.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160707/BOSSAS/gameinfo.html

The league finished with the Sixers bringing all their players back to beat the Jazz 86-75.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160707/PHIUTA/gameinfo.html

Standings: Celtics 3-0, Spurs 2-1, Sixers 1-2, Jazz 0-3

Friday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN):
5th Place: Mavericks (Andre) vs Hornets 8:00am NBATV
3rd Place: Thunder vs Heat (Justise) 10:00am NBATV
1st Place: Magic White vs Pistons 12:00pm NBATV
7th Place: Magic Blue vs Pacers 2:00pm NBATV
9th Place: Clippers vs Knicks (Marshall) 4:00pm NBATV
Bucks vs Cavaliers, 6:00pm, NBATV
D League Select (Quinn) vs Grizzlies, 6:30pm Online only
Hawks vs Rockets, 8:00pm, NBATV
Timberwolves (Tyus) vs Nuggets, 8:30pm ESPN
Kings vs Raptors, 10:00pm, NBATV
Lakers (Brandon) vs Pelicans, 10:30pm ESPN

[Merlindevildog91]

Severe sucking up by the whiny (well, you know) Vince Carter over JPT and especially Brice Johnson.

My favorite line was, "well, his shots are dropping, they just aren't going in."

He must have missed the paper class on gravity.

[ChillinDuke]

Severe sucking up by the whiny (well, you know) Vince Carter over JPT and especially Brice Johnson.

My favorite line was, "well, his shots are dropping, they just aren't going in."

He must have missed the paper class on gravity.

Wait, who said this? Vince Carter or Brevity?

- Chillin

[brevity]

Severe sucking up by the whiny (well, you know) Vince Carter over JPT and especially Brice Johnson.

My favorite line was, "well, his shots are dropping, they just aren't going in."

He must have missed the paper class on gravity.


Wait, who said this? Vince Carter or Brevity?

- Chillin

I was afraid of this. I may be getting too close to the story.

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks emerged victorious in the critical 9th place game, crushing the Los Angeles Clippers 106-77 in the grand finale of the Orlando Summer League in the Amway Center. Ron Baker led all scorers with 20 points, and Chasson Randle added 14.

J.P. Tokoto put on a show for the dozens in attendance, scoring a lucky 13 points in his third straight game, this time from 5-of-8 shooting, including 1-1 from 3-point land. Tokoto's consecutive games streak with a made 3-pointer has reached a career high of two.

Brice Johnson, the Clippers' first round draft pick, scored 6 points on 1-of-13 shooting, and was named to the All-Summer League Team. "I don't know how the voters left off Tokoto," he said. "I mean, I deserved it, but so did he."

"Scientists in my line of work hesitate to use the word 'star' when describing individuals," tweeted Neil DeGrasse Tyson, noted astrophysicist and director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City. "So I'll just say that J.P. Tokoto is like a giant, luminous celestial phenomenon around which we all rotate."

Marshall Plumlee, who did not play Friday, spoke positively about his Summer League experience with the Knicks. "I have a deal with some guarantees in place, but I'm still getting crap from my brothers. Apparently when they come to New York to play the Knicks, I need to get them tickets to Hamilton."

The acclaim for Tokoto's play this summer was widespread but not unanimous. Austin Rivers, a free agent who recently agreed to remain with the Clippers, attended Summer League games this week and offered a contrary opinion. "Wait, why are you asking everyone about J.P. Tokoto? He sucks."

[devildeac]

I was afraid of this. I may be getting too close to the story.

ORLANDO, FL. -- The New York Knicks emerged victorious in the critical 9th place game, crushing the Los Angeles Clippers 106-77 in the grand finale of the Orlando Summer League in the Amway Center. Ron Baker led all scorers with 20 points, and Chasson Randle added 14.

J.P. Tokoto put on a show for the dozens in attendance, scoring a lucky 13 points in his third straight game, this time from 5-of-8 shooting, including 1-1 from 3-point land. Tokoto's consecutive games streak with a made 3-pointer has reached a career high of two.

Brice Johnson, the Clippers' first round draft pick, scored 6 points on 1-of-13 shooting, and was named to the All-Summer League Team. "I don't know how the voters left off Tokoto," he said. "I mean, I deserved it, but so did he."

"Scientists in my line of work hesitate to use the word 'star' when describing individuals," tweeted Neil DeGrasse Tyson, noted astrophysicist and director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City. "So I'll just say that J.P. Tokoto is like a giant, luminous celestial phenomenon around which we all rotate."

Marshall Plumlee, who did not play Friday, spoke positively about his Summer League experience with the Knicks. "I have a deal with some guarantees in place, but I'm still getting crap from my brothers. Apparently when they come to New York to play the Knicks, I need to get them tickets to Hamilton."

The acclaim for Tokoto's play this summer was widespread but not unanimous. Austin Rivers, a free agent who recently agreed to remain with the Clippers, attended Summer League games this week and offered a contrary opinion. "Wait, why are you asking everyone about J.P. Tokoto? He sucks."

Ahh, my day is now complete. The JPT update has been filed and I will sleep comfortably tonight.

(BTW, LMAO again at brevity's reporting and hope ol huck is reading his recaps. Or should that be healing his kneecaps? :rolleyes:)

[Troublemaker]

First time Brandon touched the ball as a professional - https://vine.co/v/5Whv62Fg3JI

[NashvilleDevil]

Brandon up to 10 points. Had a beautiful hesitation move that freed him up for a dunk. Meanwhile, ESPN has an article up asking if Ben Simmons is already looking like a superstar, they are all in on Ben Simmons at the four letter network.

[sagegrouse]

Brandon up to 10 points. Had a beautiful hesitation move that freed him up for a dunk. Meanwhile, ESPN has an article up asking if Ben Simmons is already looking like a superstar, they are all in on Ben Simmons at the four letter network.

All you need to know about Ben Simmons' first two games:


Simmons... also shot 4-of-17 from the field in the two games.

[NashvilleDevil]

All you need to know about Ben Simmons' first two games:

[ESPN hack voice begin] But look at those passes! He's amazing! [ESPN hack voice end]

[DukeTrinity11]

I might be ready to join to group of DBR'ers who think that Ingram will be the best Duke NBA player ever. I know its just Summer League but wow has he been a monster on both ends of the floor in his first ever competitive professional game!

The Lakers 2nd pick Zubac has looked great as well. He's definitely a steal considering where he was drafted.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Meanwhile, ESPN has an article up asking if Ben Simmons is already looking like a superstar, they are all in on Ben Simmons at the four letter network.
I was expecting to see Brevity's name above this post. The question asked by ESPN is...

Can an NBA player be a superstar without being an elite scorer?
From NFL Land, Tim Tebow says "Yes! He doesn't even have to play!" (Hopefully Simmons has a religious following.)
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16772698/philadelphia-76ers-ben-simmons-showing-signs-superstar-status-nba

[awhom111]

The Hawks finally announced a roster. Let's blame it on the FIBA clearance issues. Darington Hobson has been playing in the Chinese second division, which runs in the offseason of the main league. Stephane Lasme is dealing with potential drug suspension issues overseas.
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/atlanta-hawks-samsung-nba-summer-league

The Spurs announced their Las Vegas roster, which has tweaks from their Utah roster. Becky Hammon tries to defend her title, which already puts her in a better position than the previous winning coaches, who all ended up not finishing that season with their teams.
http://www.nba.com/spurs/spurs-announce-2016-las-vegas-summer-league-roster

The final day of the Orlando Summer League was the playoff day. Andre and the Mavericks won 5th place as he had 14 points in 35 minutes in a 97-92 win over the Hornets. Jaleel Cousins also managed 8 fouls in the win.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/DALCHA/gameinfo.html

Justise did not play as the Heat lost to the Thunder 86-72 in the 3rd place game. With the Heat managing the minutes of their veterans, it is unknown if we can expect him at all in Las Vegas. Michael Carrera had a day to forget in the win as he would have been greeted with the "Eight fouls, no points" cheer if the game was in Cameron.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/OKCMIA/gameinfo.html

The weaker Magic team showed that they did not need draft picks or veterans as they finished as undefeated champions with an 87-84 win over the Pistons. Michael Gbinije did not play again although he is supposedly going to be able to play for the Nigerian National Team, so the injury may not be too serious.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/ORWDET/gameinfo.html

The stronger Magic team could only manage 8th place after losing 85-79 to the Pacers.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/ORBIND/gameinfo.html

Marshall did not play as the Knicks did avoid last place by beating the Clippers 106-77.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/LACNYK/gameinfo.html

The first game in Las Vegas saw Thon Maker schooling the youngsters (allegedly) as the Bucks beat the Cavaliers 81-75.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/MILCLE/gameinfo.html

Quinn had 6 points in 20 minutes as D League Select lost 99-79 to the Grizzlies. Keith Steffeck collected 7 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/DLSMEM/gameinfo.html

The Hawks beat the Rockets 83-78.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/ATLHOU/gameinfo.html

Tyus had 12 points and 10 rebounds in 33 minutes as the Timberwolves lost 88-82 to the Nuggets. Kris Dunn also had a good game, but picked up 7 fouls while Ondrej Balvin picked up 7 fouls in 13 minutes on the opposite side.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/MINDEN/gameinfo.html

The Raptors absolutely mauled the Kings 88-47.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/SACTOR/gameinfo.html

Brandon finished with 12 points in 25 minutes as the Lakers beat the Pelicans 85-65.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160708/LALNOP/gameinfo.html

Saturday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN2):
Suns vs Trailblazers, 4:00pm, NBATV
Cavaliers vs Nets, 4:30pm, Online Only
Celtics vs Bulls, 6:00pm, NBATV
Wizards vs Jazz, 6:30pm Online only
Nuggets vs Grizzlies, 8:00pm, NBATV
Sixers vs Lakers (Brandon), 8:30pm ESPN2
Mavericks vs Heat (Justise?), 10:00pm, NBATV
Spurs vs Warriors, 10:30pm ESPN2

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/the__mvp/status/751622942006456320/video/1

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/751629640976986112/photo/1

[Indoor66]

Ahh, my day is now complete. The JPT update has been filed and I will sleep comfortably tonight.

(BTW, LMAO again at brevity's reporting and hope ol huck is reading his recaps. Or should that be healing his kneecaps? :rolleyes:)

If you are comfortable with that JPT update you probably are sleeping with the fish. :D:cool:

[BD80]

... The weaker Magic team showed that they did not need draft picks or veterans as they finished as undefeated champions with an 87-84 win over the Pistons.

... The stronger Magic team could only manage 8th place after losing 85-79 to the Pacers. ...


The appellations confuse me.

[devildeac]

If you are comfortable with that JPT update you probably are sleeping with the fish. :D:cool:

I'd appreciate it if you'd scale back on comments like that. :rolleyes:

[BD80]

I'd appreciate it if you'd scale back on comments like that. :rolleyes:

Trolling again?

[devildeac]

Trolling again?

That's a matter of debait.

[kAzE]

That's a matter of debait.

I think you just opened a whole new can of worms. I'm not gonna tackle that one.

[Native]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-f18cgNl2Y

[awhom111]

The Suns beat the Trailblazers 86-73.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/PHXPOR/gameinfo.html

The Nets beat the Cavaliers 79-73.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/CLEBKN/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had 2 points in 16 minutes in his first professional game as the Bulls beat the Celtics 71-62.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/BOSCHI/gameinfo.html

The Wizards beat the Jazz 88-73.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/WASUTA/gameinfo.html

The Nuggets dismantled the Grizzlies 106-62.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/DENMEM/gameinfo.html

Brandon had 7 points in 28 minutes as the Lakers beat the Sixers 70-69.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/PHILAL/gameinfo.html

Justise did not play as the Heat lost 83-64 and it would not be a surprise for him and his fellow veteran to be done for the summer. Andre is not on the Mavericks roster for Las Vegas in case anyone was wondering.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/DALMIA/gameinfo.html

The Spurs started their title defense with a buzzer beating win over the Warriors 63-61. It was a day without much fouling, which is a disappointment for me if nobody else.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160709/SASGSW/gameinfo.html

Sunday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN2):
Hawks vs Wizards, 4:00pm, NBATV
Bucks vs D League Select (Quinn), 4:30pm, Online Only
Timberwolves (Tyus) vs Raptors, 6:00pm, NBATV
Rockets vs Kings, 6:30pm Online only
Jazz vs Pelicans, 8:00pm, NBATV
Bulls vs Sixers, 8:30pm ESPN2
Spurs vs Trailblazers, 10:00pm, NBATV
Suns vs Celtics, 10:30pm ESPN2

[Skitzle]

I might be ready to join to group of DBR'ers who think that Ingram will be the best Duke NBA player ever. I know its just Summer League but wow has he been a monster on both ends of the floor in his first ever competitive professional game!

The Lakers 2nd pick Zubac has looked great as well. He's definitely a steal considering where he was drafted.

Lakers fan?

[Skitzle]

The appellations confuse me.

Magic have two teams in summer league, kind of like split squads in MLB spring training if you follow that.

One is better one is worse

[BD80]

Magic have two teams in summer league, kind of like split squads in MLB spring training if you follow that.

One is better one is worse

But the better was worse and the worse, better.

[CDu]

I might be ready to join to group of DBR'ers who think that Ingram will be the best Duke NBA player ever. I know its just Summer League but wow has he been a monster on both ends of the floor in his first ever competitive professional game!

The Lakers 2nd pick Zubac has looked great as well. He's definitely a steal considering where he was drafted.

Count me among those not yet ready to crown Ingram the best ever Dukie in the NBA. In his second game, he went just 3-12 for 7 points. Doesn't mean he won't eventually be a superstar, but he has a long way to go to surpass Hill/Brand/Deng/Boozer/Irving. Heck, he has a ways to go before he catches Parker.

[dukelifer]

I might be ready to join to group of DBR'ers who think that Ingram will be the best Duke NBA player ever. I know its just Summer League but wow has he been a monster on both ends of the floor in his first ever competitive professional game!

The Lakers 2nd pick Zubac has looked great as well. He's definitely a steal considering where he was drafted.

Not so good in game 2. It will take Ingram a season or more to get used to the physical grind and playing 82 games. Lots to work on. I expect an up and down season.

[sagegrouse]

Count me among those not yet ready to crown Ingram the best ever Dukie in the NBA. In his second game, he went just 3-12 for 7 points. Doesn't mean he won't eventually be a superstar, but he has a long way to go to surpass Hill/Brand/Deng/Boozer/Irving. Heck, he has a ways to go before he catches Parker.


Not so good in game 2. It will take Ingram a season or more to get used to the physical grind and playing 82 games. Lots to work on. I expect an up and down season.

Ingram couldn't do anything on offense until he hit three shots in the 4th quarter. Rebounding was OK, but he wasn't terrific at bringing the ball up the court. He seemed to sit out long periods of the game, perhaps with the coaches trying to get him to settle down.

[awhom111]

But the better was worse and the worse, better.

I am open to new suggestions next summer other than just using the color names that the actual teams have. It is not that uncommon for the team loaded with the Magic players to be outperformed by the other group. What that says about summer league competition is unclear.

[devildeac]

I am open to new suggestions next summer other than just using the color names that the actual teams have. It is not that uncommon for the team loaded with the Magic players to be outperformed by the other group. What that says about summer league competition is unclear.

I'm good with however you structure it. Thanks for taking the time to update us. Keep those PF stats coming! ;)

[brevity]

I am open to new suggestions next summer other than just using the color names that the actual teams have.

Hertz and Avis (because Avis tries harder)?
Silver spoon in your mouth and Chip on your shoulder?
A-Team and Misfits?
Meal and Leftovers?
Regular and Decaf?
Jones and Bloom?

White and Blue are actually the start of something pretty great, but they only make sense if you switched them. The loaded team with all the preset advantages should be called White Collar, and the scrappy group of (comparative) nobodies should be called Blue Collar.

[awhom111]

The Hawks beat the Wizards 88-80.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/ATLWAS/gameinfo.html

Quinn had a quiet 10 minutes as the D League Select team beat the Bucks 91-86. Reddit may or may not review the film and give Thon Maker a few more fouls
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/MILDLS/gameinfo.html

Tyus had 18 points in 33 minutes as the Timberwolves lost 82-80 to the Raptors. Kris Dunn almost got a triple-double the special way, but only picked up 8 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/MINTOR/gameinfo.html

The Rockets beat the Kings 85-73.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/HOUSAC/gameinfo.html

The Jazz beat the Pelicans 79-72.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/UTANOP/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had 6 points in 11 minutes as the Bulls beat the Sixers 83-70.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/CHIPHI/gameinfo.html

The Spurs continued their title defense with a 85-69 win over Portland.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/SASPOR/gameinfo.html

The Suns beat the Celtics 87-74. Alan Williams lived up to his reputation as Ken Pomeroy's rebounding machine, but also picked up 7 fouls in the win while R.J. Hunter picked up 7 for the other side.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160710/PHXBOS/gameinfo.html

Monday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN2):
Bucks vs Grizzlies, 4:00pm, Live online and delayed at 7:00am Tuesday on NBATV
Nets vs Hawks, 4:30pm, NBATV
Rockets vs D League Select (Quinn), 6:00pm, Live online and delayed at 4:00am Tuesday on NBATV
Raptors vs Mavericks, 6:30pm, NBATV
Heat (Justise?) vs Nuggets, 8:00pm, ESPN2
Cavaliers vs Timberwolves (Tyus), 8:30pm, NBATV
Kings vs Pelicans, 10:00pm, ESPN2
Warriors vs Lakers (Brandon), 10:30pm, NBATV

[awhom111]

Thon Maker continues to try to make history as he reached the dreaded 10 foul limit in an 85-81 Bucks loss to the Grizzlies.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/MILMEM/gameinfo.html

The Nets beat the Hawks 72-65.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/BKNATL/gameinfo.html

Quinn had 4 points in 10 minutes as the D League Select team beat the Rockets 89-71.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/HOUDLS/gameinfo.html

The Rockets beat the Mavericks 80-69.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/TORDAL/gameinfo.html

Justise had plenty of television time, but the veterans for the Heat are still not playing as they beat the Nuggets 92-81. Stefan Jankovic did honor his missing teammates by picking up 8 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/MIADEN/gameinfo.html

Tyus had 15 points in 26 minutes as the Timberwolves lost 99-68 to the Cavaliers. Adreian Payne picked up 7 fouls as well while Eric Jacobsen matched his total on the other side in less than 14 minutes.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/CLEMIN/gameinfo.html

The Kings lost 70-66, but David Stockton did manage 7 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/SACNOP/gameinfo.html

Brandon had 7 points and 7 rebounds in 22 minutes as the Lakers beat the Warriors 78-65. Moustapha Fall clearly hated playing time, because he quickly picked up 7 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/GSWLAL/gameinfo.html

Tuesday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN or ESPN2):
Wizards vs Nets, 4:00pm, Live online and delayed at 4:00am Wednesday on NBATV
Trailblazers vs Jazz, 4:30pm, NBATV
Celtics vs Mavericks, 6:00pm, ESPN2
Heat (Justise?) vs Suns, 6:30pm, NBATV
Spurs vs Bulls, 8:00pm, ESPN
Sixers vs Warriors, 8:30pm, NBATV

[dukelifer]

Thon Maker continues to try to make history as he reached the dreaded 10 foul limit in an 85-81 Bucks loss to the Grizzlies.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/MILMEM/gameinfo.html

The Nets beat the Hawks 72-65.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/BKNATL/gameinfo.html

Quinn had 4 points in 10 minutes as the D League Select team beat the Rockets 89-71.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/HOUDLS/gameinfo.html

The Rockets beat the Mavericks 80-69.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/TORDAL/gameinfo.html

Justise had plenty of television time, but the veterans for the Heat are still not playing as they beat the Nuggets 92-81. Stefan Jankovic did honor his missing teammates by picking up 8 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/MIADEN/gameinfo.html

Tyus had 15 points in 26 minutes as the Timberwolves lost 99-68 to the Cavaliers. Adreian Payne picked up 7 fouls as well while Eric Jacobsen matched his total on the other side in less than 14 minutes.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/CLEMIN/gameinfo.html

The Kings lost 70-66, but David Stockton did manage 7 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/SACNOP/gameinfo.html

Brandon had 7 points and 7 rebounds in 22 minutes as the Lakers beat the Warriors 78-65. Moustapha Fall clearly hated playing time, because he quickly picked up 7 fouls.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160711/GSWLAL/gameinfo.html

Tuesday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN or ESPN2):
Wizards vs Nets, 4:00pm, Live online and delayed at 4:00am Wednesday on NBATV
Trailblazers vs Jazz, 4:30pm, NBATV
Celtics vs Mavericks, 6:00pm, ESPN2
Heat (Justise?) vs Suns, 6:30pm, NBATV
Spurs vs Bulls, 8:00pm, ESPN
Sixers vs Warriors, 8:30pm, NBATV

Ingram again struggling in summer league play. He missed all 5 shots. He looks a bit like he did the first few games at Duke. I suspect he will figure it out at some point. But he is playing against guys who will likely not be in the league next year. We shall see.

[awhom111]

Kelly Oubre joined the 7 foul club as the Wizards beat the Nets 87-85.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/WASBKN/gameinfo.html

It took the second overtime, which is sudden death, to decide the next games as Pat Connaughton made the game-winning shot for the Trailblazers as they beat the Jazz 92-89.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/PORUTA/gameinfo.html

The Celtics beat the Mavericks 88-82, but A.J. Hammons did pick up 7 fouls as consolation.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/BOSDAL/gameinfo.html

Justise did not play as the Heat beat the Suns 80-71, but the players all knew it was the last chance for the foul limit. Kevin Tumba had 8 in the win while Dragan Bender continued a forgettable week with 7 in the loss and his teammate Alan Williams decided he wanted 10 fouls to go along with his conventional double-double to take a seat early.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/MIAPHX/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had a quiet 13 minutes as the Bulls handed the Spurs their first loss 79-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/SASCHI/gameinfo.html

Ben Simmons is the last man to pick up 7 fouls this year as the Sixers lost to the Warriors 85-77 as they continue to try and tank the summer leagues too.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/PHIGSW/gameinfo.html

[awhom111]

Wednesday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN2, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
23 Kings vs 10 Hawks, 4:00pm, Online Only
21 Pelicans vs 12 Heat (Justise?), 4:30pm, NBATV
24 Timberwolves (Tyus) vs 9 Spurs, 6:00pm, Online Only
22 Sixers vs 11 D League Select (Quinn), 6:30pm, NBATV
19 Celtics vs 14 Cavaliers, 8:00pm, ESPN2
20 Trailblazers vs 13 Jazz, 8:30pm, NBATV
18 Bucks vs 15 Mavericks, 10:00pm, ESPN2
17 Rockets vs 16 Warriors, 10:30pm, NBATV

[ChillinDuke]

Kelly Oubre joined the 7 foul club as the Wizards beat the Nets 87-85.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/WASBKN/gameinfo.html

It took the second overtime, which is sudden death, to decide the next games as Pat Connaughton made the game-winning shot for the Trailblazers as they beat the Jazz 92-89.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/PORUTA/gameinfo.html

The Celtics beat the Mavericks 88-82, but A.J. Hammons did pick up 7 fouls as consolation.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/BOSDAL/gameinfo.html

Justise did not play as the Heat beat the Suns 80-71, but the players all knew it was the last chance for the foul limit. Kevin Tumba had 8 in the win while Dragan Bender continued a forgettable week with 7 in the loss and his teammate Alan Williams decided he wanted 10 fouls to go along with his conventional double-double to take a seat early.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/MIAPHX/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had a quiet 13 minutes as the Bulls handed the Spurs their first loss 79-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/SASCHI/gameinfo.html

Ben Simmons is the last man to pick up 7 fouls this year as the Sixers lost to the Warriors 85-77 as they continue to try and tank the summer leagues too.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/PHIGSW/gameinfo.html

Do they actually permit scoring in these games?

I'm inclined to believe these scores are based on fouls, not baskets.

- Chillin

[CDu]

Do they actually permit scoring in these games?

I'm inclined to believe these scores are based on fouls, not baskets.

- Chillin

The summer league is quite regularly a hot mess in terms of quality of play. For a variety of reasons:

1. The "teams" consist of a group of guys who have practiced together maybe a handful of times (at most)
2. The quality of players is MUCH lower than the NBA. Just to give you a flavor, here are some of the "prospects" participating on summer league teams: 32 year old Euro journeyman and former Michigan State backup Erazem Lorbek; NAIA backup (and John Stockton's son) Michael Stockton; Joel James; and so on - I'm too lazy to go through all the rosters. But you get the idea: most teams have a guy or two on the team that you're like, "seriously?" And it's not just the bottom of the rosters. Lorbek is getting actual minutes for the Spurs summer league team. And there are plenty of guys who were actually decent college players but are still far off the NBA radar. In reality, maybe 4 or 5 (at most) players per roster are even going to play in the NBA in the next few years, and of those only 1 or 2 are going to be NBA starters.
3. There is a perverse incentive for a lot of guys to go hero-ball to try to impress some team (NBA or foreign).
4. Some of the best players in the Summer League are guys just getting accustomed to the NBA rules (most notably the NBA 3pt line).

It all works together to be a really awful product.

[brlftz]

2. The quality of players is MUCH lower than the NBA. Just to give you a flavor, here are some of the "prospects" participating on summer league teams: 32 year old Euro journeyman and former Michigan State backup Erazem Lorbek; NAIA backup (and John Stockton's son) Michael Stockton; Joel James; and so on - I'm too lazy to go through all the rosters. But you get the idea: most teams have a guy or two on the team that you're like, "seriously?" And it's not just the bottom of the rosters. Lorbek is getting actual minutes for the Spurs summer league team. And there are plenty of guys who were actually decent college players but are still far off the NBA radar. In reality, maybe 4 or 5 (at most) players per roster are even going to play in the NBA in the next few years, and of those only 1 or 2 are going to be NBA starters.


I saw Larry Drew in a game the other night. Top THAT

[phaedrus]

I saw Larry Drew in a game the other night. Top THAT

Larry Drew, or Larry Drew II? 'Cause if the former, no one's topping that.

[dukelifer]

Sadly- Quinn had another bad performance- which probably sinks any chance of getting an invite to a team. Looks like he will either need to stick out another D-league year or try his luck overseas. I thought he would be in the upper quartile of players after a stellar D league showing last year.

[awhom111]

Now teams are taking things as seriously as possible for an exhibition tournament with the start of single elimination play and the resumption of more normal rules. The Kings clearly wanted to get to consolation day as quickly as possible to pack it up and go home as they lost 81-61 to the Hawks.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/SACATL/gameinfo.html

The Heat are taking things only moderately seriously as they continue to rest Justise and the other veteran and still managed to beat the Pelicans 81-77.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/NOPMIA/gameinfo.html

Tyus had 15 points and 9 assists in 33 minutes as the Timberwolves did not care about being the last seed and knocked out the defending champion Spurs 80-71.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/MINSAS/gameinfo.html

Quinn had 2 points in 15 minutes as the D League Select team lost 108-71. The Sixers were clearly trying to tank by resting players, but they still won.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/PHIDLS/gameinfo.html

The Cavaliers beat the Celtics 98-94.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/BOSCLE/gameinfo.html

It was less dramatic this time as the Jazz beat the Trailblazers 86-71 in the rematch.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/PORUTA/gameinfo.html

The Mavericks beat the Bucks 81-64.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/MILDAL/gameinfo.html

The Warriors beat the Rockets 80-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/HOUGSW/gameinfo.html

Thursday's Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN2 or ESPNU, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
10 Hawks vs 7 Wizards, 4:00pm, NBATV
24 Timberwolves (Tyus) vs 8 Grizzlies, 4:30pm, ESPN2
12 Heat (Justise?) vs 5 Suns, 6:00pm, NBATV
22 Sixers vs 6 Nets, 6:30pm, ESPNU
13 Jazz vs 4 Nuggets, 8:00pm, NBATV
15 Mavericks vs 2 Bulls, 8:30pm, ESPN2
16 Warriors vs 1 Raptors, 10:00pm, NBATV
14 Cavaliers vs 3 Lakers (Brandon), 10:30pm, ESPN2

[awhom111]

The summer league is quite regularly a hot mess in terms of quality of play. For a variety of reasons:

1. The "teams" consist of a group of guys who have practiced together maybe a handful of times (at most)
2. The quality of players is MUCH lower than the NBA. Just to give you a flavor, here are some of the "prospects" participating on summer league teams: 32 year old Euro journeyman and former Michigan State backup Erazem Lorbek; NAIA backup (and John Stockton's son) Michael Stockton; Joel James; and so on - I'm too lazy to go through all the rosters. But you get the idea: most teams have a guy or two on the team that you're like, "seriously?" And it's not just the bottom of the rosters. Lorbek is getting actual minutes for the Spurs summer league team. And there are plenty of guys who were actually decent college players but are still far off the NBA radar. In reality, maybe 4 or 5 (at most) players per roster are even going to play in the NBA in the next few years, and of those only 1 or 2 are going to be NBA starters.
3. There is a perverse incentive for a lot of guys to go hero-ball to try to impress some team (NBA or foreign).
4. Some of the best players in the Summer League are guys just getting accustomed to the NBA rules (most notably the NBA 3pt line).

It all works together to be a really awful product.

There was that part of the season where Michael Stockton was keeping Quinn on the bench before Quinn really figured things out in the D League.

In fairness to Lorbek, he was no European journeyman. He was one of the better players in EuroLeague despite being athletically challenged. Unfortunately, like some other recent European veterans coming over, his current form is a shell of his former self since he has been injured and out of competitive basketball for two season. For that I actually salute him trying to keep it going instead of just retiring although I suspect he is trying to prove to European teams that he is still capable of hauling himself up and down the court. Of course the Spurs still have his rights so they are probably trying to keep value to them (there is criteria to determine whether draft rights can be used as the only consideration in a trade).


Sadly- Quinn had another bad performance- which probably sinks any chance of getting an invite to a team. Looks like he will either need to stick out another D-league year or try his luck overseas. I thought he would be in the upper quartile of players after a stellar D league showing last year.

I do wonder if there is an injury or something else that we do not know about. Unfortunately, play at this event can mean as much as his whole D League season. Based on interviews with him in the past, he seems very determined to prove that he is and NBA player and believes in his abilities to silence any doubters so it would not surprise me to see him try again this season. I have heard that there is an overseas team that is very interested in him, but it is hard to know if that would be the right decision.

[BD80]

... The Sixers were clearly trying to tank by resting players, but they still won. ...

"Do or do not. There is no try."

Tanking is just part of these Sixers' DNA. They tanked the tank.

[Indoor66]

"Do or do not. There is no try."

Tanking is just part of these Sixers' DNA. They tanked the tank.

We should rename their activities "Panzerkampfwagen".

[FerryFor50]

The summer league is quite regularly a hot mess in terms of quality of play. For a variety of reasons:

1. The "teams" consist of a group of guys who have practiced together maybe a handful of times (at most)
2. The quality of players is MUCH lower than the NBA. Just to give you a flavor, here are some of the "prospects" participating on summer league teams: 32 year old Euro journeyman and former Michigan State backup Erazem Lorbek; NAIA backup (and John Stockton's son) Michael Stockton; Joel James; and so on - I'm too lazy to go through all the rosters. But you get the idea: most teams have a guy or two on the team that you're like, "seriously?" And it's not just the bottom of the rosters. Lorbek is getting actual minutes for the Spurs summer league team. And there are plenty of guys who were actually decent college players but are still far off the NBA radar. In reality, maybe 4 or 5 (at most) players per roster are even going to play in the NBA in the next few years, and of those only 1 or 2 are going to be NBA starters.
3. There is a perverse incentive for a lot of guys to go hero-ball to try to impress some team (NBA or foreign).
4. Some of the best players in the Summer League are guys just getting accustomed to the NBA rules (most notably the NBA 3pt line).

It all works together to be a really awful product.

I like how you buried a subtle Joel James dig in there. :D

Keep kicking that horse. :p

[duke4ever19]

Tyus was all over that court tonight. 26 points and 10 assists.

http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/MINMEM/gameinfo.html

[awhom111]

The Round of 16 started with the Wizards beating the Hawks 71-60.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/ATLWAS/gameinfo.html

Tyus led the Timberwolves again, providing 26 points and 10 assists in 36 minutes as they knocked off another higher seeded team by beating the Grizzlies 89-85.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/MINMEM/gameinfo.html

Justise was not the only player rested as the remaining Suns beat the lingering Heat 77-74.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/MIAPHX/gameinfo.html

The Sixers finally rested enough players to ensure a loss as they fell 87-84 to the Nets.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/PHIBKN/gameinfo.html

The Nuggets beat the Jazz 80-60.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/UTADEN/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had 5 points in 13 minutes as the Bulls beat the Mavericks 86-73.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/DALCHI/gameinfo.html

The top seeded Raptors beat the Warriors 75-69.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/GSWTOR/gameinfo.html

Brandon had 13 points in 30 minutes as the Lakers were beaten 88-80 by the Cavaliers.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160714/CLELAL/gameinfo.html

Consolation Friday Games (all times ET, all games also on ESPN3 except for games marked ESPN2, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
23 Kings vs 9 Spurs, 4:00pm, Online Only
21 Pelicans vs 11 D League Select (Quinn), 4:30pm, NBATV
20 Trailblazers vs 19 Celtics, 6:00pm, Online Only
18 Bucks vs 17 Rockets, 6:30pm, NBATV
8 Grizzlies vs 10 Hawks, 8:00pm, ESPN2
12 Heat (Justise?) vs 22 Sixers, 8:30pm, NBATV
15 Mavericks vs 16 Warriors, 10:00pm, ESPN2
13 Jazz vs 3 Lakers (Brandon), 10:30pm, NBATV

[heyman25]

A different link for Tyus Jones great game.
http://www.canishoopus.com/2016/7/14/12193930/mr-survive-and-advance-tyus-jones-leads-wolves-to-quarterfinals-in

[oakvillebluedevil]

A different link for Tyus Jones great game.
http://www.canishoopus.com/2016/7/14/12193930/mr-survive-and-advance-tyus-jones-leads-wolves-to-quarterfinals-in

One more, this time with some highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz8dYeiPedM

Looks like the same ol' stones. Made a big floater in iso to seal it down the stretch

[Son of Jarhead]

:cool: Nice game by Brandon Ingram with 22 pts/5 rbs/4 ast in close loss to Utah.

[awhom111]

The Kings refused to win, even on consolation day as they let the Spurs come back and force overtime and then win 90-86.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/SACSAS/gameinfo.html

Quinn finished strong with 19 points and 6 assists in 33 minutes as the D League Select team beat the Pelicans 88-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/NOPDLS/gameinfo.html

The Trailblazers beat the Celtics 80-75.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/PORBOS/gameinfo.html

The Rockets beat the Bucks 92-89.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/MILHOU/gameinfo.html

The Hawks beat the Grizzlies 89-79.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/ATLMEM/gameinfo.html

The Sixers freed Ben Simmons to play at least one more game as they beat a Heat team resting even more players alongside Justise 74-66.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/PHIMIA/gameinfo.html

I did not watch the game, but hopefully Mamadou Ndiaye and Satnam Singh were on the court at the same time and local seismographs were working as the Mavericks beat the Warriors 80-74.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/GSWDAL/gameinfo.html

Brandon had 22 points in 31 minutes as the Lakers lost to the Jazz 92-88.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/UTALAL/gameinfo.html

Quarterfinal Saturday Games (all times ET, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
24 Timberwolves vs 1 Raptors, 4pm ESPNU
5 Suns vs 4 Nuggets, 6pm ESPN2
7 Wizards vs 2 Bulls, 8pm ESPN2
6 Nets vs 14 Cavaliers, 10pm ESPN2

[dukelifer]

The Kings refused to win, even on consolation day as they let the Spurs come back and force overtime and then win 90-86.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/SACSAS/gameinfo.html

Quinn finished strong with 19 points and 6 assists in 33 minutes as the D League Select team beat the Pelicans 88-76.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/NOPDLS/gameinfo.html

The Trailblazers beat the Celtics 80-75.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/PORBOS/gameinfo.html

The Rockets beat the Bucks 92-89.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/MILHOU/gameinfo.html

The Hawks beat the Grizzlies 89-79.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/ATLMEM/gameinfo.html

The Sixers freed Ben Simmons to play at least one more game as they beat a Heat team resting even more players alongside Justise 74-66.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/PHIMIA/gameinfo.html

I did not watch the game, but hopefully Mamadou Ndiaye and Satnam Singh were on the court at the same time and local seismographs were working as the Mavericks beat the Warriors 80-74.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/GSWDAL/gameinfo.html

Brandon had 22 points in 31 minutes as the Lakers lost to the Jazz 92-88.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160715/UTALAL/gameinfo.html

Quarterfinal Saturday Games (all times ET, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
24 Timberwolves vs 1 Raptors, 4pm ESPNU
5 Suns vs 4 Nuggets, 6pm ESPN2
7 Wizards vs 2 Bulls, 8pm ESPN2
6 Nets vs 14 Cavaliers, 10pm ESPN2
Nice to see Quinn salvage his summer league showings with a nice performance. I think Ingram will figure it out. He starts slow but finishes fast.

[Troublemaker]

Tyus scores a clutch 6 points in the final minute to lead the Twolves to an 81-79 upset (http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/MINTOR/gameinfo.html) of the previously dominant 1-seed Raptors.

Tyus finished with 21 points and 8 assists (but 7 turnovers).

[Troublemaker]

Incidentally, a Tyus vine for Wheat to enjoy: https://vine.co/v/57l6ui2hIWH

[CDu]

Incidentally, a Tyus vine for Wheat to enjoy: https://vine.co/v/57l6ui2hIWH

Yeah that was a hilariously bad call. He travelled and committed an offensive foul, yet got the call. Summer league refs are on par with the summer league play.

[Ichabod Drain]

Tyus Jones and Tyler Ulis will finally get to go at each other tomorrow.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Incidentally, a Tyus vine for Wheat to enjoy: https://vine.co/v/57l6ui2hIWH

Smart play when the defender is closing out of control like that.

No doubt in my mind that coach K teaches that with his 3pt shooters, and Tyus was one. Many coaches do.

Seen it for too many years and, as I've said before, I don't have a problem with it...except when refs bail the shooter out and the defender just gets kicked and they call a foul on the defender...I hate it when that happens :)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Yeah that was a hilariously bad call. He travelled and committed an offensive foul, yet got the call. Summer league refs are on par with the summer league play.

Boy we always seem to see things differently, don't we?

Didn't look like his left foot slid or left the floor to me.

Edit: On a closer look you could make a traveling case...he might have short hopped just enough to get called on that.

[JNort]

Boy we always seem to see things differently, don't we?

Didn't look like his left foot slid or left the floor to me.

Edit: On a closer look you could make a traveling case...he might have short hopped just enough to get called on that.
Nah that should never by any definitionbe travel. Shouldn't have been a foul either but ehhhh who cares, it's SL

[awhom111]

Tyus ended up playing 36 minutes as I guess the team really want to push on and win it all after such a poor start.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/MINTOR/gameinfo.html

There was more drama in the second game as overtime was needed for the Suns to beat the Nuggets 82-81.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/PHXDEN/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had 7 points in 15 minutes as the Bulls survived the Wizards 88-85
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/WASCHI/gameinfo.html

A day of exciting games finished with another overtime game as the Cavaliers beat the Nets 91-83.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/CLEBKN/gameinfo.html

Semifinal Sunday Games (all times ET, games on ESPN2, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
24 Timberwolves (Tyus) vs 5 Suns 6pm
2 Bulls vs 14 Cavaliers 8pm

[dukelifer]

Tyus ended up playing 36 minutes as I guess the team really want to push on and win it all after such a poor start.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/MINTOR/gameinfo.html

There was more drama in the second game as overtime was needed for the Suns to beat the Nuggets 82-81.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/PHXDEN/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had 7 points in 15 minutes as the Bulls survived the Wizards 88-85
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/WASCHI/gameinfo.html

A day of exciting games finished with another overtime game as the Cavaliers beat the Nets 91-83.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160716/CLEBKN/gameinfo.html

Semifinal Sunday Games (all times ET, games on ESPN2, numbers indicate seed in tournament bracket):
24 Timberwolves (Tyus) vs 5 Suns 6pm
2 Bulls vs 14 Cavaliers 8pm

It is interesting that the little guards have been very important in this tourney - Ulis, Jones and Felder have all played big roles and been among the top scorers.

[Troublemaker]

Tyus Jones and Tyler Ulis will finally get to go at each other tomorrow.

lol, for some reason, I looked forward to seeing this matchup, too

Anyway, Tyus is killing Ulis in the head-to-head matchup (18 points to 0 points as I type this), but unfortunately, the Suns just have more talent. Minny's Cinderella run probably ends here.

[Troublemaker]

lol, for some reason, I looked forward to seeing this matchup, too

Anyway, Tyus is killing Ulis in the head-to-head matchup (18 points to 0 points as I type this), but unfortunately, the Suns just have more talent. Minny's Cinderella run probably ends here.

Nope, I shouldn't have doubted Stones. The 24th-seed advances to the championship game.

29 points, 6 assists, 2 turnovers to Ulis' 11/7/4 on 5-21 shooting.

All of this with Thibs looking on. Tyus actually took a bad fall in the 1st-half and landed on his left hand. Got it wrapped at halftime and continued playing great instead of leaving the game. I'm sure Thibs appreciated that grit.

Coach Capel, Justise, and Jah were there in person watching, too.

[awhom111]

Another 36 minutes of play for Tyus even with the bandage.
Boxscore:
http://www.nba.com/games/20160717/MINPHX/gameinfo.html

Rasheed had 2 points in 11 minutes as the Bulls also made the Final by beating the Cavaliers 85-79.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160717/CLECHI/gameinfo.html

The final will be on ESPN2 Monday at 9pm ET.

[subzero02]

I love watching Tyus play. I will definitely have to watch a replay of his game against the suns...so clutch. It's got to be uncomfortable for Wisconsinites to have him playing across the state line.

[huey]

Nope, I shouldn't have doubted Stones. The 24th-seed advances to the championship game.

29 points, 6 assists, 2 turnovers to Ulis' 11/7/4 on 5-21 shooting.

All of this with Thibs looking on. Tyus actually took a bad fall in the 1st-half and landed on his left hand. Got it wrapped at halftime and continued playing great instead of leaving the game. I'm sure Thibs appreciated that grit.

Coach Capel, Justise, and Jah were there in person watching, too.

Tyus Stones notching another MVP...

https://twitter.com/Twolves_PR/status/754876059422629888?s=09

Championship game tomorrow 8PM Eastern, ESPN2

[Furniture]

Nope, I shouldn't have doubted Stones. The 24th-seed advances to the championship game.

29 points, 6 assists, 2 turnovers to Ulis' 11/7/4 on 5-21 shooting.

All of this with Thibs looking on. Tyus actually took a bad fall in the 1st-half and landed on his left hand. Got it wrapped at halftime and continued playing great instead of leaving the game. I'm sure Thibs appreciated that grit.

Coach Capel, Justise, and Jah were there in person watching, too.

Who is first to congratulate Tyus?

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeNBA/status/754828229869969408/video/1

[SCMatt33]

Tyus Stones! Hits a no-no-no YES three from about 28 feet with 3.6 left to break a tie with Chicago in the title game. We'll see if the defense holds.

EDIT: and it doesn't....Denzel Valentine answers with a 3 of his own.

[Eternal Outlaw]

LOL at asking if a guy with 5 points can be MVP and saying Tyus can't because he is on the potential losing team. Never knew some guys would want to give an MVP for a defensive breakdown wide open three just because it is late in the game.

If don't want to give to a losing player that is fine but at least pick a guy who has done more than 1 notable shot

[Billy Dat]

Crazy ending to regulation and OT. Props to Denzel V. Great week for Tyus, I hope this gives him some momentum into next year. He's got that X-factor that compensates for his size.

[CDu]

Man that was a fun championship game. Haymaker after haymaker thrown down the stretch. First Jones, then Valentine, then in OT Grant, then Slas, then Valentine again. Unbelievable ending.

[subzero02]

The t-wolves come up short in overtime against the bulls in the championship game falling 84-82. Tyus continued his stellar play with 27 points and 10 assists.

[awhom111]

Rasheed had a quiet 4 minutes. It will be interesting to see his next professional step. He probably has not done enough to get a serious training camp invite so the D League draft might be an option if he thinks that he can improve over the course of the season. His Nigerian and Jamaican heritage should theoretically allow him to not count as an American in certain leagues, notably Spain and Italy, which might make those the best options financially.
http://www.nba.com/games/20160718/MINCHI/gameinfo.html

Kris Dunn probably does not want to hear that he was holding the whole team back.

[JasonEvans]

Here's a fun Vine (https://vine.co/v/5Z61arQi5lD) of Tyus' dagger 3-pointer at the end of the game.

[pfrduke]

Here's a fun Vine (https://vine.co/v/5Z61arQi5lD) of Tyus' dagger 3-pointer at the end of the game.

Cristiano Felicio - hand down, man down buddy.

[CDu]

Here's a fun Vine (https://vine.co/v/5Z61arQi5lD) of Tyus' dagger 3-pointer at the end of the game.

Technically not at the end of the game. Valentine matched Jones' dagger moments later to send it to OT. And then there were two more dagger moments in OT: a 27-foot banked 3 by Slas for The Summer Wolves, followed by a turnaround FT jumper from Valentine to win it.

To be fair, there were maybe 6 total NBAers in that game, and all were likely career backups, but the number of massive shots made down the stretch of that game was really impressive. One of the craziest games I've seen in a long time.

[kAzE]

Technically not at the end of the game. Valentine matched Jones' dagger moments later to send it to OT. And then there were two more dagger moments in OT: a 27-foot banked 3 by Slas for The Summer Wolves, followed by a turnaround FT jumper from Valentine to win it.

To be fair, there were maybe 6 total NBAers in that game, and all were likely career backups, but the number of massive shots made down the stretch of that game was really impressive. One of the craziest games I've seen in a long time.

You think Tyus will be a career backup? I don't totally dispute that, but he is only 20 years old. Sure, he's not the most physically imposing guy out there, but plenty of undersized point guards have made a successful career out of just being incredibly cerebral. I think Tyus could easily become a starting point guard for many years. Mike Conley is 6'1", and he's a much better defensive player than Tyus, but I could see Tyus having a poor man's Conley type of career trajectory, especially if his defense catches up a bit with his offensive game.

[SilkyJ]

To be fair, there were maybe 6 total NBAers in that game, and all were likely career backups, but the number of massive shots made down the stretch of that game was really impressive. One of the craziest games I've seen in a long time.

This is a great accomplishment for Tyus and got me wondering just how significant being the summer league MVP is. Is this a sign that Tyus can stick in the league? Does it mean he's a sure fire starter? Or is this a curious case of Nick Horvath draining summer 3s from the bleachers?

I'll be honest, I've always had questions about Tyus in the NBA. He's undersized, is a below average athlete, and is an average defender. Some guys' games don't translate in college and they find ways to stick in the league (Miles...Shav), and the reverse can be true as well (Nolan). To be honest, he reminded me of Kendall Marshall--a really good college PG with excellent vision and passing skills, but not enough speed, shooting or athleticism to make a mark in the league. Oh and he's a good 2-3 inches shorter than Kendall. After the Wolves brought Tyus up for the last 2-3 months of the season I was really worried: he averaged 36% shooting overall and 30% from 3. He just really struggled against these bigger/faster guys.

To CDu's point, the summer league rosters are fully of guys who will never sniff the league and most of the guys who do make it will be role players, so its tough to know how significant this accomplish is and how indicative of future success it is. Here's the list of summer league MVPs and all-summer league team members (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/0/awards) going back about 10 years.

On the MVP list, pretty much all those guys have stuck in the league, though Glen Rice and Josh Selby did not. Grant and Kyle Anderson are still super young and haven't done anything yet, so tough to know with those guys. If Tyus can replicate Randy Foye or Jerryd Bayless' sucess, then he'll have a long and productive NBA career as a solid role player and potential starter.

Taking a larger sample set and looking at the entire list of all-league team members for the past decade or so, I think its compelling that Tyus will stick. There are definitely some flameouts on that list like Luke Jackson, Al Thornton, Derrick Caracter, but I think you see a lot of guys that managed to stick for 6-8 or even 10 years. I also think being a PG helps. Its a specialist position and just like theres always need for a backup QB on a football team, there's always room for a backup PG. In 2004 I was talking to scouts in Cameron before the Duke WFU game and asked about Duhon's ability to stick in the league--the scouts told me he was a surefire guy to stick, even if it was as a backup. Even though he wasn't a great shooter, an elite passer, or an incredible athlete, he was a true floor general. "There's always room for someone who can run an NBA-level team" and that 2004 duke team started 5 nba players....

Center would be the other specialist position (Shav, Miles, and Marshall all say hi) where guys can stick even when their skillset seems well below average....

[CDu]

You think Tyus will be a career backup? I don't totally dispute that, but he is only 20 years old. Sure, he's not the most physically imposing guy out there, but plenty of undersized point guards have made a successful career out of just being incredibly cerebral. I think Tyus could easily become a starting point guard for many years. Mike Conley is 6'1", and he's a much better defensive player than Tyus, but I could see Tyus having a poor man's Conley type of career trajectory, especially if his defense catches up a bit with his offensive game.

Yeah, I do think Jones will be a career backup. That certainly isn't definite by any means, as he IS only 20. But he has some strikes against him. He is small for the league, but more importantly he is a below-average run/jump athlete for his position. That's one area in which he falls way behind Conley, who was/is extremely quick and fast and was/is a terrific defender.

That isn't meant to be a slight on him. At the NBA level, there are only 30 jobs for PGs, and it is one of the deepest and most talented positions in the NBA. Could Jones find the right spot and become a starting PG someday? Sure. I just think it's more likely that he doesn't go beyond backup PG. I think he can be a very useful backup in the league for his ability to run an offense, but I think as a starter his physical and defensive limitations would become too problematic.

[dukelifer]

You think Tyus will be a career backup? I don't totally dispute that, but he is only 20 years old. Sure, he's not the most physically imposing guy out there, but plenty of undersized point guards have made a successful career out of just being incredibly cerebral. I think Tyus could easily become a starting point guard for many years. Mike Conley is 6'1", and he's a much better defensive player than Tyus, but I could see Tyus having a poor man's Conley type of career trajectory, especially if his defense catches up a bit with his offensive game.

Anything is possible but his goal is to get a second contract- one step at a time.

[SilkyJ]

Yeah, I do think Jones will be a career backup. That certainly isn't definite by any means, as he IS only 20. But he has some strikes against him. He is small for the league, but more importantly he is a below-average run/jump athlete for his position. That's one area in which he falls way behind Conley, who was/is extremely quick and fast and was/is a terrific defender.

That isn't meant to be a slight on him. At the NBA level, there are only 30 jobs for PGs, and it is one of the deepest and most talented positions in the NBA. Could Jones find the right spot and become a starting PG someday? Sure. I just think it's more likely that he doesn't go beyond backup PG. I think he can be a very useful backup in the league for his ability to run an offense, but I think as a starter his physical and defensive limitations would become too problematic.

Would have to agree here. Tyus is likely a career backup much in the mold of your namesake, Sir Duhon. Nothing wrong with that, he can make plenty of $ if he sticks for 8-9 years like the other CDu

[JasonEvans]

he can make plenty of $ if he sticks for 8-9 years like the other CDu

$33+ million... not a bad sum of money to have by your 30th birthday.

[SilkyJ]

$33+ million... not a bad sum of money to have by your 30th birthday.

in today's NBA its probably 1.5-2x that amount. The fact that Miles, a guy who will likely be a journeyman backup center his whole career, just signed a 50m+ deal is incredible to me. He averaged 15 MINUTES per game last year. Not points. Fifteen minutes.

The new TV deal/cap is creating generational wealth for even backups.

[flyingdutchdevil]

in today's NBA its probably 1.5-2x that amount. The fact that Miles, a guy who will likely be a journeyman backup center his whole career, just signed a 50m+ deal is incredible to me. He averaged 15 MINUTES per game last year. Not points. Fifteen minutes.

The new TV deal/cap is creating generational wealth for even backups.

Basketball is soooooooooooooo lucrative because of the shear lack of players involved. In the NBA, that number is 15 per team. In European soccer? 23. In baseball? 25 (40 inactive). In hockey? 23. In football? 53.

[CDu]

Basketball is soooooooooooooo lucrative because of the shear lack of players involved. In the NBA, that number is 15 per team. In European soccer? 23. In baseball? 25 (40 inactive). In hockey? 23. In football? 53.

Yup, people keep talking about the salary disparities between football players and basketball players. How can it be that football (the most popular US sport) stars make less money than basketball players? Well the answer is easy: there are more than 3 times as many NFL football players (1,696) than NBA basketball players (450). So while the NFL makes more money (and even has nearly 50% higher team salary caps), the pool of money has to be spread to more players. It's just simple math.

[JayZee]

Yup, people keep talking about the salary disparities between football players and basketball players. How can it be that football (the most popular US sport) stars make less money than basketball players? Well the answer is easy: there are more than 3 times as many NFL football players (1,696) than NBA basketball players (450). So while the NFL makes more money (and even has nearly 50% higher team salary caps), the pool of money has to be spread to more players. It's just simple math.

And the turnover in football is higher, so many of the players are younger and never get the big contract.

And in basketball, every position is a "skill" position. I wonder what the average football salary would be if you just looked at skill positions.

[CDu]

And the turnover in football is higher, so many of the players are younger and never get the big contract.

And in basketball, every position is a "skill" position. I wonder what the average football salary would be if you just looked at skill positions.

Very true, although the average skill position salary in the NFL would still be lower because there are still as many skill positions to fill but also still almost 40 more roster spots to fill. And even the non-skill guys (all the defensive guys are considered non-skilled) still get paid big.

But it would be a little closer if we excluded OLine and Defensive tackles for sure.