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View Full Version : Colangelo: The real question is, how many more years will he be at Duke?



bob blue devil
06-07-2016, 04:28 PM
dang you jerry! (http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/16025537/usa-men-basketball-managing-director-jerry-colangelo-wants-mike-krzyzewski-succeed-him)


"I want Coach K's role after 2016 to be alongside me and get as much experience as he possibly can," Colangelo said. "The real question mark is, how many more years will be coaching at Duke? I don't think he would be able to handle or be eligible to serve in my capacity in USA Basketball if he's still coaching.
"We'll see what happens in these next four years. But if it were left to me, he would replace me at the appropriate time -- sometime after 2020."

<follow-up comment in a minute>

bob blue devil
06-07-2016, 04:36 PM
i haven't paid much attention to colangelo in the past, so maybe this is par for the course with him, but i'm really surprised by his putting this out there. he's already made prior comments about coach k retiring, so can't give him a pass this time. he's been around long enough to know that retirement talk is a bit toxic for college athletic programs (hurts recruiting, could incite power dynamics with assistants, etc.). so... what is his deal? he's buddies with coach k - surely he must know he's not doing his friend any favors with this... or is he?

weezie
06-07-2016, 04:43 PM
So he's the boss of K? Gets to make all of K's decisions, does he?

Billy Dat
06-07-2016, 05:05 PM
I've long felt that Colangelo's job was K's if he wanted it and I thought it would happen in 2020 along with K's retirement from Duke. It would be a nice round 40 seasons and he'd be capping it with his 9th natty, which is fine because Coach Capel will win #10 in his first year has head coach, 2020-21.

These are special times people, savor them.

flyingdutchdevil
06-07-2016, 05:13 PM
I've long felt that Colangelo's job was K's if he wanted it and I thought it would happen in 2020 along with K's retirement from Duke. It would be a nice round 40 seasons and he'd be capping it with his 9th natty, which is fine because Coach Capel will win #10 in his first year has head coach, 2020-21.

These are special times people, savor them.

No way Coach K retires at 9. He's gunning for Wooden's record. Call it 41 seasons.

devildeac
06-07-2016, 05:16 PM
I've long felt that Colangelo's job was K's if he wanted it and I thought it would happen in 2020 along with K's retirement from Duke. It would be a nice round 40 seasons and he'd be capping it with his 9th natty, which is fine because Coach Capel will win #10 in his first year has head coach, 2020-21.

These are special times people, savor them.


No way Coach K retires at 9. He's gunning for Wooden's record. Call it 41 seasons.

I want what these 2 folks ate/drank/smoked at lunch today. ;)

Turk
06-07-2016, 05:45 PM
i haven't paid much attention to colangelo in the past, so maybe this is par for the course with him, but i'm really surprised by his putting this out there. he's already made prior comments about coach k retiring, so can't give him a pass this time. he's been around long enough to know that retirement talk is a bit toxic for college athletic programs (hurts recruiting, could incite power dynamics with assistants, etc.). so... what is his deal? he's buddies with coach k - surely he must know he's not doing his friend any favors with this... or is he?

I got this for you. I have had to pay more attention to Colangelo these days than I would have wanted, ever since the NBA assigned Jerry to run the Sixers several months back. It has been great fun drawing heavy-handed "Godfather" comparisons with the Colangelos, especially after Bryan came on board and they leaked Silent Sam Hinkie's legendary 13 page PDF to the media. "The Don" has been around long enough to know that "we need a basketball guy in the front office" talk is a bit toxic for analytics geeks spouting Wharton jargon. "Sam the Clam? Oh, you won't see him around here no more..."

I choose to believe that Bryan Colangelo is more like Sonny Corleone, not Fredo or Michael, based on his "ready, fire, aim" moves in Toronto. The Don is not ready to hand over USA basketball to Sonny just yet, nor would the basketball Families agree to such a move right now. So Jerry is asking Coach K, his trusted Olympic wartime consigliere, for a favor to keep the business running for a while until Sonny proves himself worthy or else a permanent successor can be arranged. And yes, I am nervous about what might happen next should Coach K refuse to do The Godfather this small service...

Pghdukie
06-07-2016, 05:56 PM
K makes Colangelo look good. Period.

DukeTrinity11
06-07-2016, 06:00 PM
A better question is, do Duke fans realistically think that K will coach past the 2019-20 CBB season? My close friends and I coincidentally put the over/under on number of years left in Coach K's career at 4.

It seems like a perfect departure point for him...

oakvillebluedevil
06-07-2016, 06:25 PM
I just want the Colangelos as far away from all of my basketball rooting interests as possible.

As an Italian fan of Duke (first), the Sixers, and USA basketball, Godfather references about the Colangelos running Sam out of town and wondering aloud about K's retirement is about as low as it gets :(

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-07-2016, 07:52 PM
So he's the boss of K? Gets to make all of K's decisions, does he?

Isn't he also the one who outed K's health problems in the last year?

Steven43
06-08-2016, 03:46 AM
I've long felt that Colangelo's job was K's if he wanted it and I thought it would happen in 2020 along with K's retirement from Duke. It would be a nice round 40 seasons and he'd be capping it with his 9th natty, which is fine because Coach Capel will win #10 in his first year has head coach, 2020-21.

These are special times people, savor them.

Just not feeling the Capel as Coach K successor DBR party line. Jeff is fine, but the program is at the absolute highest of levels (markedly different from what it was when Coach K took over). I would like a proven big-time winner. A coach with true name recognition and one who can obviously handle the pressure and the blinding spotlight that will be placed upon him.

None of this describes Jeff. And I'm not going to even mention Brad Stevens anymore. Wait, I just did. But no, seriously, I think he's out of the question now with the recent signing of the big new contract.

Izzo's too old. Calipari is too old and is a used car salesman (no offense to the DBR used car salesman out there), Pitino is too old and has big character flaws. Jay Wright, maybe? Maybe Billy Donovan will be ready to come back to college since both Westbrook and Durant will be past their prime at that point. But I'm not sure he is all that, anyway. Who else is out there?

Perhaps if Bobby makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs? That would be close to a miracle for ASU. At least he is one of the best point guards in the history of college basketball. I think he was headed for a pretty good NBA career, too. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with him over the next few years.

Turk
06-08-2016, 09:18 AM
I just want the Colangelos as far away from all of my basketball rooting interests as possible.

As an Italian fan of Duke (first), the Sixers, and USA basketball, Godfather references about the Colangelos running Sam out of town and wondering aloud about K's retirement is about as low as it gets :(

What about "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" (sorry)

I agree the Godfather comparisons are too obvious and as subtle as a box of hammers. If the DBR literati feel like applying another fable of an old power broker who can't step down and his nitwit son that is demeaning to a different ethnic group, please fee free to have a go. (hmm... Game of Thrones - is Bryan a Lannister? Which kingdom does Coach K rule? nah... Maybe one of Shakespeare's plays? nah, too much work and I don't remember which one is best. I give up).

P.S. BTW, trading Nerlins Noel for Jeff Teague especially without any picks back would be a Fredo move. (sorry. that was the last one, I promise).

DukeFanSince1990
06-08-2016, 09:24 AM
A better question is, do Duke fans realistically think that K will coach past the 2019-20 CBB season? My close friends and I coincidentally put the over/under on number of years left in Coach K's career at 4.

It seems like a perfect departure point for him...

He has been the coach at Duke my entire life. And I don't see a reason to change that thank you very much. :)

Li_Duke
06-08-2016, 09:41 AM
Just not feeling the Capel as Coach K successor DBR party line. Jeff is fine, but the program is at the absolute highest of levels (markedly different from what it was when Coach K took over). I would like a proven big-time winner. A coach with true name recognition and one who can obviously handle the pressure and the blinding spotlight that will be placed upon him.

None of this describes Jeff. And I'm not going to even mention Brad Stevens anymore. Wait, I just did. But no, seriously, I think he's out of the question now with the recent signing of the big new contract.

Izzo's too old. Calipari is too old and is a used car salesman (no offense to the DBR used car salesman out there), Pitino is too old and has big character flaws. Jay Wright, maybe? Maybe Billy Donovan will be ready to come back to college since both Westbrook and Durant will be past their prime at that point. But I'm not sure he is all that, anyway. Who else is out there?

Perhaps if Bobby makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs? That would be close to a miracle for ASU. At least he is one of the best point guards in the history of college basketball. I think he was headed for a pretty good NBA career, too. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with him over the next few years.

Why no love for Capel? The program is at such a high level in large part due to Capel's recruiting prowess. In regards to success in the Duke line, Capel has the most success as a NCAA head coach after Amaker and Brey. Capel also has experience coaching for Duke, that means existing relationships with the AD, the training staff, admissions, etc... That reduces the learning curve of being the Duke head coach tremendously. He's one of the best candidates regardless of color, but there is a big benefit in his being black. {redacted content} Considering Duke has traditionally been painted as being the team with all the skilled white guys, I think it would be awesome to have a minority coach in our most prominent sport. That will be a positive with recruits and media (and hopefully for the fan base, but I'm more skeptical).

DukeDevilDeb
06-08-2016, 10:52 AM
Why no love for Capel? The program is at such a high level in large part due to Capel's recruiting prowess. In regards to success in the Duke line, Capel has the most success as a NCAA head coach after Amaker and Brey. Capel also has experience coaching for Duke, that means existing relationships with the AD, the training staff, admissions, etc... That reduces the learning curve of being the Duke head coach tremendously. He's one of the best candidates regardless of color, but there is a big benefit in his being black. {redacted content} Considering Duke has traditionally been painted as being the team with all the skilled white guys, I think it would be awesome to have a minority coach in our most prominent sport. That will be a positive with recruits and media (and hopefully for the fan base, but I'm more skeptical).

I agree with you entirely and wonder how the folks who comment on this don't see the upswing that the Duke program has taken since Capel joined the staff. The guy is a master, master recruiter. We don't get Okafor, Jones, or Winslow without him. He is precise and well planned. The idea of a minority coach is excellent.

Mind you, I would be happy if Coach K wanted to simultaneously celebrate his retirement and his 100th birthday! :D But given that I don't think that will happen, Capel seems to be an excellent choice!

Go Duke!

SkyBrickey
06-08-2016, 11:01 AM
I was at the GT game this year when Coach K was not able to make the trip. The team was in a bit of a slide. Coach Capel made some nice adjustments that paid off and we won big. Walking out of the GT stadium that day, I remember thinking, "Yep, that's our future coach."

cato
06-08-2016, 12:19 PM
Just not feeling the Capel as Coach K successor DBR party line. Jeff is fine, but the program is at the absolute highest of levels (markedly different from what it was when Coach K took over). I would like a proven big-time winner. A coach with true name recognition and one who can obviously handle the pressure and the blinding spotlight that will be placed upon him.

None of this describes Jeff. And I'm not going to even mention Brad Stevens anymore. Wait, I just did. But no, seriously, I think he's out of the question now with the recent signing of the big new contract.

Izzo's too old. Calipari is too old and is a used car salesman (no offense to the DBR used car salesman out there), Pitino is too old and has big character flaws. Jay Wright, maybe? Maybe Billy Donovan will be ready to come back to college since both Westbrook and Durant will be past their prime at that point. But I'm not sure he is all that, anyway. Who else is out there?

Perhaps if Bobby makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs? That would be close to a miracle for ASU. At least he is one of the best point guards in the history of college basketball. I think he was headed for a pretty good NBA career, too. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with him over the next few years.

I don't agree with your thoughts, but followed them up until you mentioned Bobby. What in the world would Bobby bring to the table that Capel doesn't? Capel is lightyears ahead of Bobby in experience and success, both as head coach and on the recruiting trail.

Indoor66
06-08-2016, 02:13 PM
I don't agree with your thoughts, but followed them up until you mentioned Bobby. What in the world would Bobby bring to the table that Capel doesn't? Capel is lightyears ahead of Bobby in experience and success, both as head coach and on the recruiting trail.

He is also younger... and that may be a good thing.

Steven43
06-08-2016, 02:50 PM
I don't agree with your thoughts, but followed them up until you mentioned Bobby. What in the world would Bobby bring to the table that Capel doesn't? Capel is lightyears ahead of Bobby in experience and success, both as head coach and on the recruiting trail.

First of all, let me caution you about focusing on Bobby. That was not my main point. The overall point I was trying to make is that I don't think Capel is up to the job. High-level assistant, yes. Head coach of Duke basketball, no.

But since you brought up Bobby, OK I can go with that. If he proves within the next few years that he can recruit at a nobody school like Arizona State and that he can win, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel ever did by getting fired at Oklahoma. Please don't try to gloss over or minimize what happened at OU.

The last major head-coaching job for Capel was at a big-time conference school where he had been recruiting well and had every reason to be successful. Yet the overall evaluation of him at Oklahoma was essentially 'You're not up to the job and we don't want you anymore.'

What is the last time a school on the level of Duke, and there are very very few, replaced a HUGELY successful coach with someone whose most recent head coaching job had been deemed a failure and they had been fired?

And no, I don't necessarily think Bobby Hurley is the answer. I just offered him up as a possibility if he does exceedingly well at Arizona State over the next four or five years. If he does, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel has without the stigma of having been fired from the only major conference head coaching job he ever held.

cato
06-08-2016, 03:04 PM
First of all, let me caution you about focusing on Bobby. That was not my main point. The overall point I was trying to make is that I don't think Capel is up to the job. High-level assistant, yes. Head coach of Duke basketball, no.

But since you brought up Bobby, OK I can go with that. If he proves within the next few years that he can recruit at a nobody school like Arizona State and that he can win, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel ever did by getting fired at Oklahoma. Please don't try to gloss over or minimize what happened at OU.

The last major head-coaching job for Capel was at a big-time conference school where he had been recruiting well and had every reason to be successful. Yet the overall evaluation of him at Oklahoma was essentially 'You're not up to the job and we don't want you anymore.'

What is the last time a school on the level of Duke, and there are very very few, replaced a HUGELY successful coach with someone whose most recent head coaching job had been deemed a failure and they had been fired?

And no, I don't necessarily think Bobby Hurley is the answer. I just offered him up as a possibility if he does exceedingly well at Arizona State over the next four or five years. If he does, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel has without the stigma of having been fired from the only major conference head coaching job he ever held.

You brought up Bobby. It seemed so out of line with your other examples that I did not follow your reasoning. Hence the question.

cato
06-08-2016, 03:31 PM
He is also younger... and that may be a good thing.

Indeed. It is easy to forget that, although he has a LOT more coaching experience than Bobby, Capel joined the program later.

I am happy that Bobby found a place at ASU. But he got started way too late to be in the mix to succeed K.

Li_Duke
06-08-2016, 04:18 PM
{redacted content}

I still think you're underrating Capel in that you aren't giving him credit for what he's learned under Coach K since leaving OSU. Capel's early experience as a head coach feels to me a lot like Quinn Snyder's. Both are excellent coaches that got tripped up by recruiting the wrong people. With the Duke brand and the additional experience under K, I would expect Capel to flourish as Duke's head coach. I also expect Quinn to become one of the best young coaches in the NBA.

flyingdutchdevil
06-08-2016, 04:30 PM
{redacted content}

I still think you're underrating Capel in that you aren't giving him credit for what he's learned under Coach K since leaving OSU. Capel's early experience as a head coach feels to me a lot like Quinn Snyder's. Both are excellent coaches that got tripped up by recruiting the wrong people. With the Duke brand and the additional experience under K, I would expect Capel to flourish as Duke's head coach. I also expect Quinn to become one of the best young coaches in the NBA.

Absolutely. Capel is, by far and the away, the candidate that makes the most sense right now. Between his insane recruiting, his ability to connect with recruits/players, head coaching experience, and general likability, he's got a lot going for him.

If Brey was 10-15 years younger, I think he'd be the ideal candidate, but he'll be 61-62 if Coach K retires in 2020-21. And that's just too old for a successor of a blue blood program.

Other Duke-tree coaches just aren't proven, haven't had much success, are NBA-bound, or need to show success on the Big 6 level: Dawkins, Collins, Wojo, Quinn, Amaker, Bobby, etc.. And please don't get me started on Stevens. I still laugh when people bring him up as a potential replacement.

The other alternative that is highly unpopular here on DBR is the idea of going with a coach outside the Duke family whose name isn't "Brad Stevens". There are lots of great coaches out there, and I particularly like Shaka Smart. He's doing wonders at Texas right now in such a limited time.

Billy Dat
06-08-2016, 04:46 PM
Absolutely. Capel is, by far and the away, the candidate that makes the most sense right now. Between his insane recruiting, his ability to connect with recruits/players, head coaching experience, and general likability, he's got a lot going for him.

I've said this before, but I think, in addition to what you said above, that Capel's stumbles are what actually make him ideal for a political reason. The axiom goes that no one wants to follow a legend. Capel, due to his problems at OU, won't get a whiff at an elite job so he'll be thrilled to follow a legend. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, some big name or other "family member" will be happy to swoop in because there's been some distance between the legend and them - ala Roy and Dean - if Capel were to stumble, the only way to go would be up. Outside the family, don't forget Donovan if he washes out in OKC (although he sure seemed to prove he belonged this year).

rasputin
06-08-2016, 04:47 PM
I'm not calling you racist, just speaking honestly about my first impression when you're not feeling Capel but could somehow see Bobby. It bugged me at the time. I'm happy with the further explanation on that (not that you need explain yourself to me).

I still think you're underrating Capel in that you aren't giving him credit for what he's learned under Coach K since leaving OSU. Capel's early experience as a head coach feels to me a lot like Quinn Snyder's. Both are excellent coaches that got tripped up by recruiting the wrong people. With the Duke brand and the additional experience under K, I would expect Capel to flourish as Duke's head coach. I also expect Quinn to become one of the best young coaches in the NBA.

Jeff Capel was at Oklahoma, not Oklahoma State.

I know this has been discussed in a lot of other threads, and probably in this one too. I don't subscribe to the theory that the next Duke coach must have been part of the Duke "family." You know, D'oh and all. I'll take the best available coach who is also a good fit for the University.

Karl Beem
06-08-2016, 04:50 PM
Indeed. It is easy to forget that, although he has a LOT more coaching experience than Bobby, Capel joined the program later.

I am happy that Bobby found a place at ASU. But he got started way too late to be in the mix to succeed K.

That depends on when K rertires.

Steven43
06-08-2016, 06:16 PM
There are lots of great coaches out there, and I particularly like Shaka Smart. He's doing wonders at Texas right now in such a limited time.
Absolutely!!! I'm 100% all in on Smart if he shows for at least four years at Texas that he can recruit at a very high level and can win in a really tough conference.

While Brad Stevens is the dream that likely won't happen, I consider a proven Shaka Smart to be a very close second. I THINK, but I don't know, that he would be a superior choice to Capel. I don't consider Jeff to be a serious candidate.

NSDukeFan
06-08-2016, 06:22 PM
Absolutely!!! I'm 100% all in on Smart if he shows for at least four years at Texas that he can recruit at a very high level and can win in a really tough conference.

While Brad Stevens is the dream that likely won't happen, I consider a proven Shaka Smart to be a very close second. A vastly superior choice as compared to Capel.

Duke doesn't necessarily have to hire someone who coached at VCU, do they?

Steven43
06-08-2016, 06:30 PM
Duke doesn't necessarily have to hire someone who coached at VCU, do they?

Haha. Very nice.

jipops
06-08-2016, 08:47 PM
My own prerequisites for Duke coach are as follows (in no particular order):

1. Does not refer to one's self in the 3rd person.
2. Does not encourage and then turn a blind eye to any academic impropriety.
3. Does not refer to or compare a rough season as some sort of catastrophe.
4. Has a sane approach to time-out usage.
5. Uses real curse words, but not in national tv interviews.

After all that, I'm good.

Steven43
06-08-2016, 10:07 PM
My own prerequisites for Duke coach are as follows (in no particular order):

1. Does not refer to one's self in the 3rd person.
2. Does not encourage and then turn a blind eye to any academic impropriety.
3. Does not refer to or compare a rough season as some sort of catastrophe.
4. Has a sane approach to time-out usage.
5. Uses real curse words, but not in national tv interviews.

After all that, I'm good.

So you won't be pulling for 'Ol Roy to succeed K?

jipops
06-08-2016, 10:21 PM
So you won't be pulling for 'Ol Roy to succeed K?

I hadn't thought of that as a possibility. Just listing simple prereqs.

NashvilleDevil
06-08-2016, 11:04 PM
First of all, let me caution you about focusing on Bobby. That was not my main point. The overall point I was trying to make is that I don't think Capel is up to the job. High-level assistant, yes. Head coach of Duke basketball, no.

But since you brought up Bobby, OK I can go with that. If he proves within the next few years that he can recruit at a nobody school like Arizona State and that he can win, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel ever did by getting fired at Oklahoma. Please don't try to gloss over or minimize what happened at OU.

The last major head-coaching job for Capel was at a big-time conference school where he had been recruiting well and had every reason to be successful. Yet the overall evaluation of him at Oklahoma was essentially 'You're not up to the job and we don't want you anymore.'

What is the last time a school on the level of Duke, and there are very very few, replaced a HUGELY successful coach with someone whose most recent head coaching job had been deemed a failure and they had been fired?

And no, I don't necessarily think Bobby Hurley is the answer. I just offered him up as a possibility if he does exceedingly well at Arizona State over the next four or five years. If he does, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel has without the stigma of having been fired from the only major conference head coaching job he ever held.

It's not college basketball but Bill Belichick was run out of Cleveland and has won 4 Super Bowls in New England. Maybe Capel would excel at a school where basketball is the #1 sport unlike Oklahoma where as the saying goes it is football 1, spring football 2, football recruiting 3, and hey we have a basketball team.

Karl Beem
06-09-2016, 12:09 AM
It's not college basketball but Bill Belichick was run out of Cleveland and has won 4 Super Bowls in New England. Maybe Capel would excel at a school where basketball is the #1 sport unlike Oklahoma where as the saying goes it is football 1, spring football 2, football recruiting 3, and hey we have a basketball team.

The Browns moved to Baltimore and Belicheck was awful in Cleveland. He was fired after the move.

YmoBeThere
06-09-2016, 07:21 AM
I can't believe someone just brought up Cleveland.

NashvilleDevil
06-09-2016, 07:24 AM
The Browns moved to Baltimore and Belicheck was awful in Cleveland. He was fired after the move.

That was my point. He was awful and then got another chance and like him or not he has won 4 Super Bowls. Capel got run out of Oklahoma and given another chance may excel at another school, most likely Duke v

Indoor66
06-09-2016, 07:53 AM
I can't believe someone just brought up Cleveland.

Next they will be bringing up the German! :cool:

rasputin
06-09-2016, 10:34 AM
My own prerequisites for Duke coach are as follows (in no particular order):

1. Does not refer to one's self in the 3rd person.
2. Does not encourage and then turn a blind eye to any academic impropriety.
3. Does not refer to or compare a rough season as some sort of catastrophe.
4. Has a sane approach to time-out usage.
5. Uses real curse words, but not in national tv interviews.

After all that, I'm good.

And no power-squatting.

UrinalCake
06-09-2016, 11:17 AM
Just not feeling the Capel as Coach K successor DBR party line. Jeff is fine, but the program is at the absolute highest of levels (markedly different from what it was when Coach K took over). I would like a proven big-time winner. A coach with true name recognition and one who can obviously handle the pressure and the blinding spotlight that will be placed upon him.

This is why I think Capel would be better served by leaving to take over another program, proving he can run it successfully on his own for 3-4 years, and then being in position to take over when K retires. Selfishly I like having him on as our associate, he's obviously doing wonders for our recruiting and K delegates a ton of responsibility to him and the other assistants. But in the big picture, I think he needs more on his resume to be in consideration when K eventually hangs them up. Wojo and Collins waiting for years until the right opportunities for them came up. I kind of assume Capel is doing the same, but he's sort of running out of time.

devildeac
06-09-2016, 12:07 PM
Next they will be bringing up the German! :cool:

Achtung, Baby. ;)

Turk
06-09-2016, 12:19 PM
Achtung, Baby. ;)

I still haven't found what I'm looking for...

devildeac
06-09-2016, 12:43 PM
I still haven't found what I'm looking for...

You, too, eh?

:o

budwom
06-09-2016, 01:16 PM
First of all, let me caution you about focusing on Bobby. That was not my main point. The overall point I was trying to make is that I don't think Capel is up to the job. High-level assistant, yes. Head coach of Duke basketball, no.

But since you brought up Bobby, OK I can go with that. If he proves within the next few years that he can recruit at a nobody school like Arizona State and that he can win, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel ever did by getting fired at Oklahoma. Please don't try to gloss over or minimize what happened at OU.

The last major head-coaching job for Capel was at a big-time conference school where he had been recruiting well and had every reason to be successful. Yet the overall evaluation of him at Oklahoma was essentially 'You're not up to the job and we don't want you anymore.'

What is the last time a school on the level of Duke, and there are very very few, replaced a HUGELY successful coach with someone whose most recent head coaching job had been deemed a failure and they had been fired?

And no, I don't necessarily think Bobby Hurley is the answer. I just offered him up as a possibility if he does exceedingly well at Arizona State over the next four or five years. If he does, then I think he will have proven a lot more than Capel has without the stigma of having been fired from the only major conference head coaching job he ever held.

The situation at Oklahoma was a bit more complicated than you make it out to be. Capel had a 61% winning percentage at VCU and 58% at Oklahoma, including a thirty win season
A certain Polish fella we once hired won only 55% of his games at Army.

I think just about everyone would agree that Capel learned from his experience at OKlahoma, and I strongly agree with those who note his impressive impact on our recruiting.
He left OK five years ago when he was 36 years old....he deserves strong consideration at the very least to take K's place.

Indoor66
06-09-2016, 01:57 PM
You, too, eh?

:o

I think Turk has expressed the universal sentiment.... :cool:

Scorp4me
06-09-2016, 08:36 PM
I can see where someone may have a personal favorite "other" than Capel. But how anyone could feel that he needs more on his resume or isn't fit to take over is beyond me. He's got a few flaws I'm sure, but the positives far outweigh them. And if you compared other's on a pros and cons basis I would think he would come out on top.

Edouble
06-09-2016, 08:47 PM
Please don't try to gloss over or minimize what happened at OU... the overall evaluation of him at Oklahoma was essentially 'You're not up to the job and we don't want you anymore.

And who, pray tell, benefitted more... Duke or Oklahoma? I know I want Capel! I'm still glowing from our NC. Looking forward to Giles, Tatum, Bolden et al.


What is the last time a school on the level of Duke, and there are very very few, replaced a HUGELY successful coach with someone whose most recent head coaching job had been deemed a failure and they had been fired?

Kentucky has a coach that left his last two college jobs with vacated Final Fours.
I'll eschew the formality of an official firing and say that Calapari is a fine example of a coach being deemed a failure at his previous stops (let's throw the Nets in here too!).


This is why I think Capel would be better served by leaving to take over another program, proving he can run it successfully on his own for 3-4 years, and then being in position to take over when K retires. Selfishly I like having him on as our associate, he's obviously doing wonders for our recruiting and K delegates a ton of responsibility to him and the other assistants. But in the big picture, I think he needs more on his resume to be in consideration when K eventually hangs them up. Wojo and Collins waiting for years until the right opportunities for them came up. I kind of assume Capel is doing the same, but he's sort of running out of time.

If Capel remains in Durham over the next 5-8 years and continues the great work that he has done thus far and is not a viable candidate to replace Coach K, then there is something very wrong in the hiring process. Capel has nothing left to prove. He messed up at OU and IMHO that's a great thing! He is an amazing coach and I have no doubt he has learned from his mistakes.

I personally value recruiting at Duke much more than recruiting at Northwestern or Marquette. Yes Wojo and Collins recruited at Duke, but they were not part of the absolute hauls that Capel has been involved with. Whatever school gets Jeff Capel will hit the jackpot. If we let him get away, it could be a huge, huge mistake.

Honestly, I would take Capel over Brad Stevens right now. Brad Stevens was never part of a National Championship team and he recruited one elite player in Gordon Hayward.

NSDukeFan
06-09-2016, 09:06 PM
Achtung, Baby. ;)

Bless you.

UrinalCake
06-09-2016, 09:45 PM
If Capel remains in Durham over the next 5-8 years and continues the great work that he has done thus far and is not a viable candidate to replace Coach K, then there is something very wrong in the hiring process. Capel has nothing left to prove. He messed up at OU and IMHO that's a great thing! He is an amazing coach and I have no doubt he has learned from his mistakes.

I personally value recruiting at Duke much more than recruiting at Northwestern or Marquette. Yes Wojo and Collins recruited at Duke, but they were not part of the absolute hauls that Capel has been involved with. Whatever school gets Jeff Capel will hit the jackpot. If we let him get away, it could be a huge, huge mistake.

I guess it's the difference between being an assistant at a high major program versus being the head of a smaller program. I know that K delegates a lot of responsibility over to his assistants, more than at most major programs, and it has probably increased even more as he has gotten older and he has continued his National Team responsibilities. Actually, a couple years before Chris Collins took the job at NW I heard his father Doug Collins in an interview - he was discussing Chris and said that Chris was learning just as much if not more by being an assistant under K than he would running his own program. But with that said, there are still those who would say that if you're hiring a head coach you'd want it to be someone with significant head coaching experience, more than the few years that Capel has.

Also, with respect to recruiting - Capel has been great at identifying with the younger kids and ultimately bringing them in, but he's still selling Coach K. That's who the players come to play for. When K isn't there any more, it remains to be seen whether Capel will still be able to haul in the recruits, which is why I think him being on his own for a while would help answer that question.

Steven43
06-10-2016, 12:38 AM
Honestly, I would take Capel over Brad Stevens right now. Brad Stevens was never part of a National Championship team and he recruited one elite player in Gordon Hayward.
WHAT??!! You have GOT to be kidding, right? I'm not taking the bait, sorry. Good try, though!😄😄

Steven43
06-10-2016, 12:42 AM
I guess it's the difference between being an assistant at a high major program versus being the head of a smaller program. I know that K delegates a lot of responsibility over to his assistants, more than at most major programs, and it has probably increased even more as he has gotten older and he has continued his National Team responsibilities. Actually, a couple years before Chris Collins took the job at NW I heard his father Doug Collins in an interview - he was discussing Chris and said that Chris was learning just as much if not more by being an assistant under K than he would running his own program. But with that said, there are still those who would say that if you're hiring a head coach you'd want it to be someone with significant head coaching experience, more than the few years that Capel has.

Also, with respect to recruiting - Capel has been great at identifying with the younger kids and ultimately bringing them in, but he's still selling Coach K. That's who the players come to play for. When K isn't there any more, it remains to be seen whether Capel will still be able to haul in the recruits, which is why I think him being on his own for a while would help answer that question.
Very nice analysis, particularly the last paragraph.

wilson
06-10-2016, 09:00 AM
Just not feeling the Capel as Coach K successor DBR party line. Jeff is fine, but the program is at the absolute highest of levels (markedly different from what it was when Coach K took over). I would like a proven big-time winner. A coach with true name recognition and one who can obviously handle the pressure and the blinding spotlight that will be placed upon him.

None of this describes Jeff. And I'm not going to even mention Brad Stevens anymore. Wait, I just did. But no, seriously, I think he's out of the question now with the recent signing of the big new contract.

Izzo's too old. Calipari is too old and is a used car salesman (no offense to the DBR used car salesman out there), Pitino is too old and has big character flaws. Jay Wright, maybe? Maybe Billy Donovan will be ready to come back to college since both Westbrook and Durant will be past their prime at that point. But I'm not sure he is all that, anyway. Who else is out there?

Perhaps if Bobby makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs? That would be close to a miracle for ASU. At least he is one of the best point guards in the history of college basketball. I think he was headed for a pretty good NBA career, too. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with him over the next few years.So Jeff Capel, with a decade of head coaching experience and several more years as quite possibly our single most important staff member, isn't "proven," but Bobby Hurley, who has coached fewer than 100 career games, is proven because you think he might make a couple of Sweet 16s?
I don't think I follow your logic.

budwom
06-10-2016, 09:24 AM
^ and didn't Capel turn down the job Hurley ultimately got? I think that's proof that he's a very strong contender for the
HC job at Duke.

Steven43
06-10-2016, 02:19 PM
So Jeff Capel, with a decade of head coaching experience and several more years as quite possibly our single most important staff member, isn't "proven," but Bobby Hurley, who has coached fewer than 100 career games, is proven because you think he might make a couple of Sweet 16s?
I don't think I follow your logic.

That is not what I said. If you want to have a respectful discussion on the matter then please stop trying to take my words out of context and use them in an unfair way to try to score cheap points.

wilson
06-10-2016, 02:54 PM
That is not what I said. If you want to have a respectful discussion on the matter then please stop trying to take my words out of context and use them in an unfair way to try to score cheap points.You dismissed Jeff Capel for not being a "proven winner," then rejected out of hand several other presumed "proven winners" for various reasons, before settling on Bobby Hurley as your preferred candidate and devoting at least half your post to discussing him. Help me understand what I'm missing?

BD80
06-10-2016, 03:59 PM
Man ... I keep forgetting this thread has been hijacked and click on "new" - only to find the same rehashed arguments regarding K's successor that have been repeated in a dozen other threads (many themselves due to hijacking).

At least offer new opinions for Chris's sake!

Oh yeah, Brad Stevens has a new contract. Other than that ...

Steven43
06-10-2016, 04:09 PM
.....before settling on Bobby Hurley as your preferred candidate and devoting at least half your post to discussing him. Help me understand what I'm missing?

That is NOT what I did. Try reading it again with more focus and less aggression. I don't have time to explain it cohesively right now. I will try to do so later. Perhaps you'll get it on your own without further explanation. That's my hope.

madscavenger
06-10-2016, 04:11 PM
Hey, ole Roy is a Hall-of-Famer, has natties (by hook or by crook), and more wins than almost all active coaches. He could garner an extra 10 years of youth by selling his soul to the Devil (re-finance it actually) in exchange for having to speak cockney for the rest of his life and his most cherished possession, 691 time outs. And shucks, he's already orchestrated a few dozen wins for us. Seems like a no brainer.

brevity
06-10-2016, 04:31 PM
At least offer new opinions for Chris's sake!

You got it.

Head Coach: Chris Collins
Associate Head Coach: Chris Carrawell
Assistant (Big Man) Coach: Chris Duhon
Assistant (Guard) Coach: Christian Laettner
Domestic Recruiting: Chris Moreland
European Recruiting: Christian Ast
Strength and Conditioning: anyone but that Louisville guy on steroids

rasputin
06-10-2016, 04:48 PM
You got it.

Head Coach: Chris Collins
Associate Head Coach: Chris Carrawell
Assistant (Big Man) Coach: Chris Duhon
Assistant (Guard) Coach: Christian Laettner
Domestic Recruiting: Chris Moreland
European Recruiting: Christian Ast
Strength and Conditioning: anyone but that Louisville guy on steroids

Where's Christopher Robin?

And where's Christie Brinkley?

Edouble
06-10-2016, 06:18 PM
You dismissed Jeff Capel for not being a "proven winner," then rejected out of hand several other presumed "proven winners" for various reasons, before settling on Bobby Hurley as your preferred candidate and devoting at least half your post to discussing him. Help me understand what I'm missing?

Look, I wasn't a fan of his post, but he definitely did not settle on Hurley on his preferred candidate.

In the first paragraph, he dismissed Capel, I agree with you (and disagree with him) there.

In the next two paragraphs he dismissed further candidates, noting that maybe Jay Wright would be a viable option. This is another part of his post that I was not crazy about, simply because he dismisses the coach currently holding the national championship trophy, but does not give a reason for why he questions Wright's candidacy for the Duke job. Is it because Wright wouldn't take the job? Is it because by then he would be too old? Is two Final Fours (including the NC) in 15 years not good enough?

In the last paragraph (about a quarter or the post, definitely not "at least half") Steven43 mentions Hurley as someone who may meet his criteria in the future. He does not say that he is his preferred candidate, nor does he say that he currently meets his stringent criteria. He implies that if Hurley"makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs" which "would be close to a miracle for ASU" that Hurley would then be enough of a proven winner to assume the coaching mantle at Duke.

Again, I do not agree with his post, but I do agree with his assertions that you're not reading his post thoroughly. Nowhere does he say that Hurley is his preferred candidate, nor does he devote half of his post to Hurley. Based on his, again, very stringent criteria, he offers up Hurley as someone who may be able to meet his standards in the future.

wilson
06-10-2016, 07:30 PM
Look, I wasn't a fan of his post, but he definitely did not settle on Hurley on his preferred candidate.

In the first paragraph, he dismissed Capel, I agree with you (and disagree with him) there.

In the next two paragraphs he dismissed further candidates, noting that maybe Jay Wright would be a viable option. This is another part of his post that I was not crazy about, simply because he dismisses the coach currently holding the national championship trophy, but does not give a reason for why he questions Wright's candidacy for the Duke job. Is it because Wright wouldn't take the job? Is it because by then he would be too old? Is two Final Fours (including the NC) in 15 years not good enough?

In the last paragraph (about a quarter or the post, definitely not "at least half") Steven43 mentions Hurley as someone who may meet his criteria in the future. He does not say that he is his preferred candidate, nor does he say that he currently meets his stringent criteria. He implies that if Hurley"makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs" which "would be close to a miracle for ASU" that Hurley would then be enough of a proven winner to assume the coaching mantle at Duke.

Again, I do not agree with his post, but I do agree with his assertions that you're not reading his post thoroughly. Nowhere does he say that Hurley is his preferred candidate, nor does he devote half of his post to Hurley. Based on his, again, very stringent criteria, he offers up Hurley as someone who may be able to meet his standards in the future.Fair enough.
Steven43, what I'm trying to say is that if your standard for K's successor is that the person be a "proven winner," then throwing Hurley out as the person who most interests you (at least, he's the main person you mention as being of interest to you) seems curious to me. And like Edouble, I don't agree with you that there are grounds for dismissing Capel. I'm honestly interested in your thoughts.