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duke74
06-06-2016, 10:19 AM
Reposted from last year (with updated dating):

Today marks the 72nd anniversary of the Normandy landing on D-Day, June 6, 1944. I spent some time this morning thinking about the bravery of the soldiers that day, and the resolve of our leadership. The "greatest generation" is slowly leaving us and we continue to owe them a debt of gratitude that, frankly, cannot be repaid in proportion to their sacrifice. And thank you to the veterans of our other wars and to those who have and are now serving this great country. (I know that we have a number in this wonderful community.)

I thought it might be fitting to post Ike's message ("Order of the Day") on June 6, 1944. While brief, I think it captures what was at stake, and why we fought.

Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force!

You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers-in-arms on other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world. Your task will not be an easy one.

Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle hardened. He will fight savagely.

But this is the year 1944! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940-41. The United Nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats, in open battle, man-to-man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned! The free men of the world are marching together to Victory!

I have full confidence in your courage and devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full Victory!

Good luck! And let us beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.

 SIGNED: Dwight D. Eisenhower

Olympic Fan
06-06-2016, 10:53 AM
It always struck me as odd that the two pivotal American moments in World War II occurred in the first week of June.

Just coincidence, of course, but the Battle of Midway, fought from June 4-7 in 1942 was the turning point in the Pacific -- a miraculous victory by an American naval force that was not only outnumber numerically, but outclassed in equipment and doctrine, fighting against Japanese naval fliers who were their superior in experience. The battle was in balance on the morning of June 4, when three torpedo squadrons (flying obsolete planes and carrying unreliable torpedoes) went in without fighter support and for more than an hour kept the Japanese from launching a counterstrike. Almost all of those men died (29 of 30 from one squadron) and they didn't get a single hit. But they gave our dive bombers time to find the Japanese carriers -- which they were able to do because the commander of the Enterprise strike force decided to ignore the turn-back point and push beyond his range. In five minutes, the American fliers sank three of the four big Japanese Fleet Carriers and changed the balance of power in the Pacific.

In the end, the courage of those fliers made up for everything else and handed America one of the most important and decisive naval victories in world history.

Then two years later, there's D-Day, June 6, 1944, the decisive moment in the European war. The massive operation was a masterpiece of American planning -- the British resisted the invasion until very late in the day. And even though the British (and Canadians) provided almost half the troops, a large percentage of their force was equipped by the Americans.

On this occasion we had numerical superiority, including almost total control of the air. But even with all those advantages, the issue was in doubt at Omaha Beach -- almost in the center of the invasion. All the naval bombardment and all the aerial bombardment failed to seriously damage the German defenses on the bluffs overlooking the beaches. The troops were supposed to be supported by DD tanks swimming to the beach. But the rough water sank most of the tanks. In the end, the troops had to do it themselves -- individuals and small groups of men climbing the bluff and opening exits. We tend to honor the generals who win battles, but Omaha was won by sergeants, privates and maybe a lieutenant or two.

It's a remarkable parallel to the crisis at Midway, where everything came down the extraordinary bravery of a handful of American servicemen.

There was a young officer who landed on Omaha with the 29th Division. Charles Cawthorn was a history buff and loved the fact that his regiment was descended from a unit that fought with Stonewall Jackson's brigade. On the trip over, he wrote in his diary his doubts about whether these modern soldiers could measure up to their forefathers. On Omaha Beach, he got his answer.

Every year that we celebrate the twin victories of Midway and D-Day, I give thanks that we had men like that fighting for our freedoms.

Indoor66
06-06-2016, 03:36 PM
It always struck me as odd that the two pivotal American moments in World War II occurred in the first week of June.

Just coincidence, of course, but the Battle of Midway, fought from June 4-7 in 1942 was the turning point in the Pacific -- a miraculous victory by an American naval force that was not only outnumber numerically, but outclassed in equipment and doctrine, fighting against Japanese naval fliers who were their superior in experience. The battle was in balance on the morning of June 4, when three torpedo squadrons (flying obsolete planes and carrying unreliable torpedoes) went in without fighter support and for more than an hour kept the Japanese from launching a counterstrike. Almost all of those men died (29 of 30 from one squadron) and they didn't get a single hit. But they gave our dive bombers time to find the Japanese carriers -- which they were able to do because the commander of the Enterprise strike force decided to ignore the turn-back point and push beyond his range. In five minutes, the American fliers sank three of the four big Japanese Fleet Carriers and changed the balance of power in the Pacific.

In the end, the courage of those fliers made up for everything else and handed America one of the most important and decisive naval victories in world history.

Then two years later, there's D-Day, June 6, 1944, the decisive moment in the European war. The massive operation was a masterpiece of American planning -- the British resisted the invasion until very late in the day. And even though the British (and Canadians) provided almost half the troops, a large percentage of their force was equipped by the Americans.

On this occasion we had numerical superiority, including almost total control of the air. But even with all those advantages, the issue was in doubt at Omaha Beach -- almost in the center of the invasion. All the naval bombardment and all the aerial bombardment failed to seriously damage the German defenses on the bluffs overlooking the beaches. The troops were supposed to be supported by DD tanks swimming to the beach. But the rough water sank most of the tanks. In the end, the troops had to do it themselves -- individuals and small groups of men climbing the bluff and opening exits. We tend to honor the generals who win battles, but Omaha was won by sergeants, privates and maybe a lieutenant or two.

It's a remarkable parallel to the crisis at Midway, where everything came down the extraordinary bravery of a handful of American servicemen.

There was a young officer who landed on Omaha with the 29th Division. Charles Cawthorn was a history buff and loved the fact that his regiment was descended from a unit that fought with Stonewall Jackson's brigade. On the trip over, he wrote in his diary his doubts about whether these modern soldiers could measure up to their forefathers. On Omaha Beach, he got his answer.

Every year that we celebrate the twin victories of Midway and D-Day, I give thanks that we had men like that fighting for our freedoms.

Well done. Thank you.

moonpie23
06-06-2016, 04:10 PM
I can't even.....


my dad was a marine in the south pacific. He left the orphanage in greensboro nc, lied about his age (3 months shy of his birthday) and joined up. As my 3 brothers and i grew up, we learned many "ways of the U.S. Marine Corp". My dad was tight lipped about his service, my mom having to change the subject many times when we badgered dad about what he did.

I can't even......

As we grew up in the 50's, we learned about "war" from our fathers, mothers and grandparents. All handed down by word of mouth. There was no youtube, no camera phones. Television was reluctant to share the horrors that our service men and women suffered. No, our visions were shaped by John Wayne (and others) movies, benign television shows, and hard-edited news reels. Our fathers told us stories, but we we moving into a newer age, and relating the actual horrors just didn't connect.

My generation first got introduced to the unshaven face of reality of war with viet nam. Fresh high school kids that had spent the last 4 years enjoying the beatles, hot rods, and california girls. we didn't know squat about "war"......we thought "war" was pointing a fake gun at someone in a movie, hearing it go off, then watching the "victim" just fall to the ground. "War" was america's "gold medal". We were the CHAMPS ! we won WWI and WWII, then some thing in Korea......we didn't know jack...

then, my generation found it. In the jungle, 10,000 miles from home. coming face to face with the REAL DEAL......not a movie.....mom and dad couldn't get you out of this one.

the point of this is, i didn't go. I am blind in my left eye, and that was an automatic "4F". So, for me, the images and cognitive acceptance of "war" came in more film footage, loss of people i actually knew, and real stories from friends that came home. I was devastated by the images and descriptions. without getting political here on DBR, i became heavily involved in the anti-war movement of the late 60's. Music was my chosen path.

I can't even....

but it WAS a movie that finally made the connection for me about D-day. The opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan tore me apart, as did the closing scene. i can't EVEN imagine stepping off those transports, and what they faced. I think of my Dad making it home to my mom, then the pretty damn good life he got to enjoy till he passed away in 2009. war is hell......but if you've never BEEN in a war, you can't even.....

Tom B.
06-06-2016, 04:40 PM
Just coincidence, of course, but the Battle of Midway, fought from June 4-7 in 1942 was the turning point in the Pacific -- a miraculous victory by an American naval force that was not only outnumber numerically, but outclassed in equipment and doctrine, fighting against Japanese naval fliers who were their superior in experience. The battle was in balance on the morning of June 4, when three torpedo squadrons (flying obsolete planes and carrying unreliable torpedoes) went in without fighter support and for more than an hour kept the Japanese from launching a counterstrike. Almost all of those men died (29 of 30 from one squadron) and they didn't get a single hit. But they gave our dive bombers time to find the Japanese carriers -- which they were able to do because the commander of the Enterprise strike force decided to ignore the turn-back point and push beyond his range. In five minutes, the American fliers sank three of the four big Japanese Fleet Carriers and changed the balance of power in the Pacific.

Midway was a classic case of luck favoring the prepared. American codebreakers had partially cracked the Japanese naval codes, so they knew in advance that the Japanese planned to attack Midway. Yamamoto and Nagumo did not expect the U.S. Navy to be on the scene -- they were envisioning another surprise attack like Pearl Harbor. Their battle plan was to use carrier-based bombers to soften up Midway's defenses and knock its airfield out of commission, then take the islands in an amphibious landing. By the time the Americans responded, they believed that Midway would be firmly in Japanese hands and their defenders would be dug in, and they'd have the ability to throw waves of aerial attacks at the American ships with both carrier-based and land-based planes, using Midway's airfield against the Americans. But because the U.S. Navy knew what the Japanese plan was, it was able to put a task force that included three aircraft carriers in the area in time to face the Japanese carrier task force.

The Americans also benefited from having information that the Japanese didn't know in another important way. The Japanese surmised the the Americans could send no more than two carriers to Midway, because the U.S.S. Yorktown had been badly damaged at the Battle of the Coral Sea in April of 1942. But the Yorktown had been towed back to Pearl Harbor, put into drydock, and repaired well enough in a massive, round-the-clock effort that it could put back to sea and join the U.S.S. Enterprise and U.S.S. Hornet at Midway. So not only were the American carriers on scene much sooner than the Japanese expected, the American carrier task force was 50% stronger than the Japanese thought it would be.

And the Americans had one other tactical advantage as well. Nagumo, as commanding officer of the Japanese carrier force, was tasked primarily with neutralizing Midway's defenses and airfield. But once the American carriers arrived, he would have to split his focus between two tasks. The Americans, by contrast, had only one objective -- finding and stopping the Japanese fleet.

And that's where the luck came into play. On the morning of June 4, the Japanese carriers launched a wave of bombers towards Midway. But Nagumo held some of his bombers back in reserve, armed with anti-ship ordinance just in case any American ships appeared. Nagumo also launched several scout planes to search for American ships and protect his eastern flank. One of the scout planes, from the cruiser Tone, was launched a half hour late because of a malfunctioning catapult.

The Japanese bombers sent to neutralize Midway's defenses pounded the islands hard, but not hard enough, as Midway's airfield remained operational. When the bombing group's leader radioed back to the carriers and informed Nagumo that a second strike would be needed, Nagumo ordered the planes that he'd held back in reserve to be re-armed with ordinance for bombing land targets. While the re-arming process was underway, the scout plane from the cruiser Tone -- the one that had been launched late -- sighted the American ships and radioed back to the fleet. Had the scout plane been launched on time, Nagumo would have had scores of planes armed and ready to launch against the American fleet. Instead, many of Nagumo's planes had been re-armed with different ordinance, and now had to be re-armed again.

While Nagumo's crews were busy re-re-arming planes on the hangar decks, the planes that had attacked Midway began arriving back over the Japanese carriers. Many of them were low on fuel and some had battle damage, and needed to land right away. Unlike modern-day carriers with angled flight decks that allow planes to be launched and landed at the same time, World War II-era carriers had no such capabilities. So Nagumo couldn't launch any planes until he'd recovered all of the returning planes.

To make matter worse, while all of this was happening, Nagumo's ships came under attack by torpedo planes from the American carriers. As Olympic Fan noted, the American torpedo planes suffered huge losses and failed to score a single hit -- but they forced the carriers to take evasive action, and forced the Japanese flight deck and hangar deck crews to take cover repeatedly, which only further delayed Nagumo's efforts to recover and re-arm his planes for a strike against the American carriers. The American torpedo plane attacks also pulled the Japanese fighter cover down to sea level.

And that's when the American dive bombers found the Japanese carriers, at precisely the right moment -- with no high-level fighter cover, and with their flight decks and hangar decks full of fueled and armed planes, and other random pieces of ordinance that had been stowed wherever there was space, so as not to slow down the recovery and re-arming process. They were floating tinderboxes, just waiting for someone to throw in a match. Within fifteen minutes, three of the four Japanese carriers had been hit and were ablaze. (The fourth Japanese carrier would be hit in another wave of attacks later in the day, and all four Japanese carriers would eventually sink.)

In one sense, the Americans got very lucky at Midway. But it was their preparedness with superior information, combined with a lot of good old-fashioned bravery, that allowed them to take advantage of the luck they found.

Ggallagher
06-07-2016, 09:43 AM
Midway was a classic case of luck favoring the prepared....

And that's when the American dive bombers found the Japanese carriers, at precisely the right moment -- with no high-level fighter cover, and with their flight decks and hangar decks full of fueled and armed planes.....

In one sense, the Americans got very lucky at Midway. But it was their preparedness with superior information.......

I have always been struck by the stunning amount of luck involved in Midway. And it wasn't only the American dive bombers finding the Japanese carriers at precisely the right moment. Had they not shortly before found the lone Japanese destroyer returning to the fleet, they never would have gotten close to the carriers at the right time. That lone destroyer had spent several hours before the battle pursuing an American submarine that the Japanese had spotted earlier in the day before the battle started. When the destroyer finally gave up the hunt for the submarine, it headed back to rejoin the main fleet. What the American dive bombers very luckily found was the wake of that destroyer pointing back towards the Japanese carriers' location. Without stumbling onto that single destroyer right as the bombers were beginning to consider returning to their ships - due to low fuel, this battle could have ended up very differently.

One other point related to a comment earlier in the thread. There were several factors for which the American Navy was the better prepared and trained of the two fleets that met that morning - the Japanese were at a distinct disadvantage - and that helped the Americans take advantage of their very lucky situation. Unlike American carriers, Japanese carriers did NOT purge their hangar deck fuel lines when entering battle. Consequently a bad situation can get worse very quickly. Additionally, the Japanese carriers did not have segmented fire water lines on the hangar deck - as did the Americans. Again, bad things can go south very fast when a single rupture of the fire header takes down the entire system.

And lastly, Japanese squadrons operated without coordinated combat control dictated from the carrier - as did the Americans. When the Japanese fighters spotted one group of planes approaching their position, they ALL headed to intercept that group, leaving them totally exposed to the incoming dive bombers. On an American ship, the combat air control would have maintained cover for the carrier.

So the luck and skill in all this is just mind-boggling. It took a lot of things happening at exactly the right time to make it all work out right.

Olympic Fan
06-07-2016, 10:31 AM
For those of you interested in the details about the Battle of Midway, may I suggest Parshall and Tully's "Shattered Sword" -- the first really definitive look at he battle from the Japanese side. A brilliant work that won the National Book Award, it explodes and explains many myths about the battle.

For instance, in Walter Lord's "Incredible Victory" (a VERY good account of the battle), he talks about how when the dive bombers arrived, the Japanese carriers were prepared to launch a counterstrike against the small US task force. He paints a dramatic picture of the Japanese flight decks packed with planes ... then in the movie (which is not bad, aside from the lame subplot about Charles Heston, his son and his Japanese girlfriend), the first planes of the Japanese strike are taking off. It didn't happen that way -- Parshall and Tully show that the Japanese practice was to load and fuel their planes on the hanger deck -- the attack was being prepared, but the only planes on deck at the time of the fatal attack were an occasional combat air patrol Zero that landed for more fuel or ammo. They even have pictures taken from McClusky's squadron that show the decks empty.

They also provide evidence that one piece of good luck that the Americans received on June 4, was actually bad luck. The famous story of the No. 2 search plane from the crusier Tone is well known. It was the plane that finally found the US task force, but it was delayed 45 minutes due to mechanical trouble. But Parshall and Tully plot the courses and find that if that plane had launched on time, it never would have sighted the Americans. So bad luck.

And from Edwin Layton's memoirs (he was chief of intelligence for both Kimmel and Nimitz) is the full story of that incredible American intelligence coup. The interesting thing is that the Intelligence establishment back in Washington didn't believe the interpretation of the Pearl Harbor codebreakers and tried to convince Nimitz to hold his fleet back to defend Hawaii ... all credit to Nimitz for making the key call.

As for D-Day, lots of great books -- Cornelius Ryan's "The Longest Day" is the classic (although a little dated). For an overview with modern research, I'd recommend Stephen Ambrose's "D-Day: June 6, 1944".

I really like the movie, "The Longest Day" except for the dramatic scene where Robert Mitchum (playing General Cota) orchestrates the big assault that finally gets the Americans off Omaha Beach. I think the Omaha section of "Saving Private Ryan" is a MUCH more accurate representation of how individuals and small groups actually breached the German lines on Omaha.