Again, man screwing with Nature could have bad consequences!

[Devilwin]

Read this.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVryNvURXifoAuPUnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBydWNmY2M wBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1464151565/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2fnews%2fb reaking-news%2fos-crocodiles-everglades-20160519-story.html/RK=0/RS=lxyQ8_yqaxM1vPOtMHzah3PFKJY-
They've already got many invasive species in Florida, from rose ringed parakeets to Burmese and rock pythons. Now this? People just don't care what they do to native species with these introductions. In NC, the spotted bass has been introduced, and as a more aggressive species, is taking over many lakes, like Norman, and Chatuge, displacing native largemouth and smallmouth populations. Also now found in the Cape Fear, Neuse rivers, and Belews Lake in Stokes County. Snakeheads have been caught in Lake Wylie. All we need are Bengal tigers in Umstead Park..

[-jk]

And the Snakeheads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakehead_%28fish%29) in the Potomac.

-jk

[Devilwin]

There have been snakeheads caught in a couple of NC lakes, and red piranha too. People however, confuse our native bowfin with a snakehead fish. They do look similar.

[weezie]

And the Snakeheads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakehead_%28fish%29) in the Potomac.

-jk

Don't forget the plague of stink bugs, too!

[cspan37421]

don't forget kudzu either.

It's just the consequence of moving stuff around. It doesn't even have to be intentional, like with the fish - things can hitch a ride. Just think about Zika.

Law of unintended consequences yet to be repealed.

[duke79]

don't forget kudzu either.

It's just the consequence of moving stuff around. It doesn't even have to be intentional, like with the fish - things can hitch a ride. Just think about Zika.

Law of unintended consequences yet to be repealed.

Yea, I serve on the Board of a non-profit devoted to restoring the native habitat (plants) of the region I live in. The encroachment of invasive plants is a MAJOR environmental problem for much of the country (like Kudzu in the Southeast). In the Northeast, the Asian Bittersweet vine is taking over many forests and invasive bugs (mostly from the far East) like the Emerald Ash Borer are killing many ash trees, one of the predominant trees in this region. Not a good situation and very difficult to fight on a large scale.

[moonpie23]

It's just the consequence of moving stuff around. It doesn't even have to be intentional, like with the fish - things can hitch a ride. Just think about Zika.

Law of unintended consequences yet to be repealed.

that's why the Zika situation for the Olympics is so serious...

[Devilwin]

Sometimes, the introductions are for a "good" purpose. When loggers destroyed much of the mountain habitat's trees, silting occurred in many streams where the southern Appalachian brook trout was found, and wiped out over half the population. Rainbow trout from the Rockies and brown trout from Europe were stocked, adding even more pressure to the native brookies. Today, they have recovered somewhat, but are still mainly relegated to head water streams.
Still the most ignorant thing we ever did was to wipe out the passenger pigeon, once the most populous bird on earth, with numbers in the billions. The flocks could block out the sun when they passed over. Audubon watched a flock in Louisville Kentucky pass over for three days, a constant river of birds. By 1904 they were gone in the wild.

[sagegrouse]

Sometimes, the introductions are for a "good" purpose. When loggers destroyed much of the mountain habitat's trees, silting occurred in many streams where the southern Appalachian brook trout was found, and wiped out over half the population. Rainbow trout from the Rockies and brown trout from Europe were stocked, adding even more pressure to the native brookies. Today, they have recovered somewhat, but are still mainly relegated to head water streams.
Still the most ignorant thing we ever did was to wipe out the passenger pigeon, once the most populous bird on earth, with numbers in the billions. The flocks could block out the sun when they passed over. Audubon watched a flock in Louisville Kentucky pass over for three days, a constant river of birds. By 1904 they were gone in the wild.

I am not a scholar of the passenger pigeon but a knowledgeable birder, and I have a somewhat different opinion. I am not so sure the passenger pigeon was compatible with widespread settlement of Eastern and Midwestern North America. The birds survived in huge flocks with no defensive measures except their gigantic numbers.

Here is some material from the Smithsonian:


The passenger pigeon's technique of survival had been based on mass tactics. There had been safety in its large flocks which often numbered hundreds of thousands of birds. When a flock of this size established itself in an area, the number of local animal predators (such as wolves, foxes, weasels, and hawks) was so small compared to the total number of birds that little damage could be inflicted on the flock as a whole.

This colonial way of life became very dangerous when man became a predator on the flocks. When the birds were massed together, especially at a nesting site, it was easy for man to slaughter them in such huge numbers that there were not enough birds left to successfully reproduce the species.

The interests of civilization, with its forest clearing and farming, were diametrically opposed to the interests of the birds which needed the huge forests to survive. The passenger pigeons could not adapt themselves to existing in small flocks. When their interests clashed with the interests of man, civilization prevailed. The wanton slaughter of the birds only sped up the process of extinction. The converting of forests to farmland would have eventually doomed the passenger pigeon.

The one valuable result of the extinction of the passenger pigeon was that it aroused public interest in the need for strong conservation laws. Because these laws were put into effect, we have saved many other species of our migratory birds and wildlife.

If you substituted "American bison" for "passenger pigeon," I would agree. The so-called buffalo could have survived in much smaller numbers. In fact, they will likely be introduced to the wild, but their rate of reproduction is one calf per year and the rate of growth in the bison population will not yield huge numbers for a long time.

[Devilwin]

Thanks for the input, Sage. I too, am a knowledgeable birder, and once saw a pair of pine grosbeaks at my feeders in December '94. My best siting. No doubt that the destruction of habitat added to the disaster, but when you think of how many we killed, there's no doubt to me man was the mitigating factor. There were still plenty of forests for the birds to survive, especially in the mountains. Read "A Feathered River Across The Sky, The Passenger Pigeon's Flight To Extinction", by Joel Greenburg.
He says, "Habitat loss reduced the territory where the birds could collect in large numbers, but there was plenty of food to sate the legions of pigeons. The whittling away of their habitat did, however, make the birds easier to discover and kill."

[Devilwin]

Speaking of invasive species, and doves and pigeons, have you noticed the Eurasian collared dove in your area? They are spreading from the original entry point in Florida, and reached NC several years ago. I have seen them in Candor, Mocksville, Winston Salem, Raleigh, and here in Thomasville. They look like a larger edition of the ringed turtle dove, a domesticated species.http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjlpZ0dXUIMAYM0nnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21 tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1464326122/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.allaboutbirds.org%2fguide%2fE urasian_Collared-Dove%2fid/RK=0/RS=347ezyhi_B9x2XkRHvR56FZOZb0-

[sagegrouse]

Speaking of invasive species, and doves and pigeons, have you noticed the Eurasian collared dove in your area? They are spreading from the original entry point in Florida, and reached NC several years ago. I have seen them in Candor, Mocksville, Winston Salem, Raleigh, and here in Thomasville. They look like a larger edition of the ringed turtle dove, a domesticated species.http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjlpZ0dXUIMAYM0nnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21 tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1464326122/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.allaboutbirds.org%2fguide%2fE urasian_Collared-Dove%2fid/RK=0/RS=347ezyhi_B9x2XkRHvR56FZOZb0-

We have more collared doves here in Steamboat than mourning doves. They are growing in numbers.

[Devilwin]

Yeah. Still not that common up here, but they are not unusual birds at feeders now.

[wavedukefan70s]

Speaking od invasive species.i caught a Mediterranean gecko on my back porch tonight.i let it go but it was interesting to see.never have seen one here before.

[Indoor66]

I saw a lot of weird reptiles the other day at Cinéopolis. :D:cool:

Actually we have a large population of the Ring Neck Doves here in my area of South Florida. They are the only Doves that I regularly see.

[Devilwin]

I saw a lot of weird reptiles the other day at Cinéopolis. :D:cool:

Actually we have a large population of the Ring Neck Doves here in my area of South Florida. They are the only Doves that I regularly see.

Florida has more pigeons and doves than any other state, but some are non natives, however. The natives are the ground dove, Inca dove, mourning dove.
The imports are the ringed turtle dove, Eurasian collared dove, white winged dove, white crowned pigeon, and the feral common pigeon (rock dove).