One & Done vs. Duke University Mission

[SamHouston]

I really struggle with Duke embracing One & Done basketball players. Here is a serious question for Duke graduates:

How do you reconcile the conflict between One & Done basketball players and University mission?

With the exception of 2015, Duke won championships with seasoned upperclassmen engaged in the journey toward an undergraduate degree.

This is no longer the case. From my perspective, there is a grand compromise- it is all OK because Duke wins and everybody makes money.

[FerryFor50]

I really struggle with Duke embracing One & Done basketball players. Here is a serious question for Duke graduates:

How do you reconcile the conflict between One & Done basketball players and University mission?

With the exception of 2015, Duke won championships with seasoned upperclassmen engaged in the journey toward an undergraduate degree.

This is no longer the case. From my perspective, there is a grand compromise- it is all OK because Duke wins and everybody makes money.

Why does it matter so much when athletes, particularly basketball players, leave early?

Where's the uproar when other athletes leave early to go pro, like football, baseball players, or even golfers?

Where's the conflict if a software developer leaves school to enter the workforce? Or if a journalism major gets a TV gig before graduating?

Or if someone leaves to go to the military and comes back to finish school?

It's senseless hand wringing IMO. And honestly, many of the guys who leave early come back to finish their degrees later.

[cspan37421]

Dear SamHouston: The Mission Statement of Duke University appears below. Please specify which particular aspects of the Mission are in conflict with student athletes turning pro as soon as they are ready?

I can't find anything in there about staying four years.



Mission Statement

Approved by the Duke University Board of Trustees October 1, 1994, and revised February 23, 2001, the Mission Statement for Duke University reads as follows:

"James B. Duke's founding Indenture of Duke University directed the members of the University to 'provide real leadership in the educational world' by choosing individuals of 'outstanding character, ability, and vision' to serve as its officers, trustees and faculty; by carefully selecting students of 'character, determination and application;' and by pursuing those areas of teaching and scholarship that would 'most help to develop our resources, increase our wisdom, and promote human happiness.'

“To these ends, the mission of Duke University is to provide a superior liberal education to undergraduate students, attending not only to their intellectual growth but also to their development as adults committed to high ethical standards and full participation as leaders in their communities; to prepare future members of the learned professions for lives of skilled and ethical service by providing excellent graduate and professional education; to advance the frontiers of knowledge and contribute boldly to the international community of scholarship; to promote an intellectual environment built on a commitment to free and open inquiry; to help those who suffer, cure disease, and promote health, through sophisticated medical research and thoughtful patient care; to provide wide ranging educational opportunities, on and beyond our campuses, for traditional students, active professionals and life-long learners using the power of information technologies; and to promote a deep appreciation for the range of human difference and potential, a sense of the obligations and rewards of citizenship, and a commitment to learning, freedom and truth.

“By pursuing these objectives with vision and integrity, Duke University seeks to engage the mind, elevate the spirit, and stimulate the best effort of all who are associated with the University; to contribute in diverse ways to the local community, the state, the nation and the world; and to attain and maintain a place of real leadership in all that we do.”

source: https://trustees.duke.edu/governing-documents/mission-statement

[sagegrouse]

I really struggle with Duke embracing One & Done basketball players. Here is a serious question for Duke graduates:

How do you reconcile the conflict between One & Done basketball players and University mission?

With the exception of 2015, Duke won championships with seasoned upperclassmen engaged in the journey toward an undergraduate degree.

This is no longer the case. From my perspective, there is a grand compromise- it is all OK because Duke wins and everybody makes money.

First, these are good young men who almost all benefit from the Duke experience -- not only the basketball program, but interactions with fellow students and faculty.

Second, they are leaving to make $1 mill per year or more in their chosen line of pursuit -- which, while divorced from academic lines of study, is till a a world-wide industry. Who could deny them this right?

Third, from the Duke perspective, you either go for the best players who are capable of doing Duke work and who have strong character, or you run the risk of accepting mediocrity in basketball. Moreover, the one-and-done phenomenon is not an absolute: not every player who is thinking of turning pro after one year actually has a chance to play in the NBA. Many return; Grayson Allen will get his degree.

[fuse]

When Brand and Deng left, I struggled at the novelty.

Now that I am much older and wiser ;-) ....., I am at peace with OAD.

Would I rather have top talent stay longer? Sure.

I feel like OAD actually puts us closer to the coaching lens of each year is a different race and journey.

[Mike Corey]

Coach K's shift on this front has been gradual. There was a time when Coach was pursuing a single one-and-done player per roster.

(The Okafor-Jones-Winslow class was, to be fair, not intended to be a trio of one-and-done. Two of those three were just desired by the NBA, and desirous of the NBA, a year or two earlier than expected.)

As to my thoughts as an alum: A Duke education does not end after one season or four. I'd hope a Duke degree is pursued by anyone that chooses to matriculate, at some point over their lives. If not, I hope whatever time they've had on campus is fruitful for them, their classmates, and Duke. That's what matters to me most as an alum. It's difficult to assess that a year out or even ten years out, but I've little doubt folks like Luol Deng and Jabari Parker are going to use their Duke education--in the classroom and not--with much efficacy.

[huey]

Would I like players to be able to go directly to the NBA from high school and start earning a well-earned income? Yes.

Would I have left after my freshman year for guaranteed millions in my dream job? Yup.

Would I live players to come and stay for 4 years at Duke so I could see them mature and grow? Of course. But not if it holds back their careers at all.

Do I think the OADs benefit from even their one year at Duke? I sure hope so, and think they do.

There was definitely a transition period in embracing one and dones. It's not my favorite system, but I'll never blame the players for it. Any (non-trolly) concerns with OADs probably reflect a general unease (that I share to some extent) between athletics and education. But don't think that was the original point so that'll be for another day.

[gep]

First, these are good young men who almost all benefit from the Duke experience -- not only the basketball program, but interactions with fellow students and faculty.

Second, they are leaving to make $1 mill per year or more in their chosen line of pursuit -- which, while divorced from academic lines of study, is till a a world-wide industry. Who could deny them this right?

Third, from the Duke perspective, you either go for the best players who are capable of doing Duke work and who have strong character, or you run the risk of accepting mediocrity in basketball. Moreover, the one-and-done phenomenon is not an absolute: not every player who is thinking of turning pro after one year actually has a chance to play in the NBA. Many return; Grayson Allen will get his degree.

I think these points are very relevant. The key is that these OAD are capable of doing Duke work or they would have not made it into Duke... no matter how good players they are... at least that's my hope. Duke blue glasses?

[bob blue devil]

Dear SamHouston: The Mission Statement of Duke University appears below. Please specify which particular aspects of the Mission are in conflict with student athletes turning pro as soon as they are ready?

I can't find anything in there about staying four years.

fascinating - nothing in there about 4 years or degrees! who would have thought the university should embrace something bigger than old traditions.

[johnb]

fascinating - nothing in there about 4 years or degrees! who would have thought the university should embrace something bigger than old traditions.

I'd say that the University is very interested in degrees and tradition. Who is more interested in such stuff than a great school like Duke?

Duke is also looking to recruit young people who are the very best at whatever it is they do. Give them the opportunity to grow as specialists and people. And watch them excel away from Duke. The four years and the degree are markers, but there's nothing sacred about either. sure, someone could say Duke is only taking top 10 players for the resultant fame and fortune, and I'm sure it's not unnoticed, but recruiting guys who are at the absolute top of their game is what Duke is doing in every area. And if Duke had the power, I'm sure they'd insist on everyone staying to get their degrees--and that's again where we're different from many of our competitors: by and large, all of our guys have the ability and drive to graduate and would do so if they weren't being asked to take millions of dollars to play a game with a very short shelf life. I'm 57 years old and am better at what I do than I was when I was 37 (much less than my 20 year old self). Easy for me to say someone like Jahlil should chew up 20-50% of his basketball playing years at Duke.

By the way, we won't need to hand wring about this forever. There are probably 5 guys a year who are both OAD candidates AND able to get into Duke. maybe fewer. All 5 would get offers from every college in he country. Surely we can't keep getting half of these guys, year in and year out...

[Bostondevil]

I find a student having to transfer after one or two years at Duke due to financial worries more of a knock on Duke's mission than a few basketball players turning pro.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I find K's request to OADs to be reasonable. That is that they unpack their bags while here.
Love, Ima

[Reilly]

.. Who could deny them this right? ...

The NBA, apparently, at least for a year.

It's not the 1-year v. the 4-year that is bothersome, to me. There are legit questions as to whether non-profit educational institutions should be operating for-profit professional sports leagues in all but name -- I am a bit uncomfortable about all of that (though have contributed mightily to the 'problem' over the years via money and time on such leagues).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I find a student having to transfer after one or two years at Duke due to financial worries more of a knock on Duke's mission than a few basketball players turning pro.

Does this actually happen? If so, that is awful...

I get transferring because a) Duke is too challenging academically, b) homesick, or c) you just plain ole hate it, but d) cost of tuition should never be a reason to transfer.

Somehow, the cost of tuition as a barrier to entry doesn't bother me, but the transferring thing does.

[BLPOG]

I thought I'd have something to contribute to this topic, but it's really all been said already. If the financial analysis says a student should enter "industry", in accordance with his own level of risk aversion, why should he not, regardless of field? We'd all like 4-year players. To me the only off-the-court consideration that really matters is that the players have integrity and represent our school well while at Duke (and hopefully afterward as well).

There's something to be said about the context that has lead to one-and-done players, but that's really on the NBA and NCAA.

[Jeffrey]

Does this actually happen? If so, that is awful...


Of course, it does. Compare the last 25 years of inflation growth with higher education cost. It's very arguable pursuing certain degrees is no longer a prudent financial decision.

[Jeffrey]

It's not the 1-year v. the 4-year that is bothersome, to me. There are legit questions as to whether non-profit educational institutions should be operating for-profit professional sports leagues in all but name -- I am a bit uncomfortable about all of that (though have contributed mightily to the 'problem' over the years via money and time on such leagues).

IMO, this is very worthy of discussion! Of course, money talks and it's not going to change.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Of course, it does. Compare the last 25 years of inflation growth with higher education cost. It's very arguable pursuing certain degrees is no longer a prudent financial decision.

What you're arguing is why not to go to a private school to begin with. Once you are there, I imagine that the University helps you out of you really need it.

Huge different between not going to Duke because of costs and transferring out of Duke because of costs.

[Bostondevil]

Does this actually happen? If so, that is awful...

I get transferring because a) Duke is too challenging academically, b) homesick, or c) you just plain ole hate it, but d) cost of tuition should never be a reason to transfer.

Somehow, the cost of tuition as a barrier to entry doesn't bother me, but the transferring thing does.

Yes. Don't know how much but I do know it happened to one of my son's classmates. It also happened back in the dark ages - I knew a couple of kids who transferred away due to money reasons when I was a student.

[brevity]

I get transferring because a) Duke is too challenging academically, b) homesick, or c) you just plain ole hate it, but d) cost of tuition should never be a reason to transfer.

Somehow, the cost of tuition as a barrier to entry doesn't bother me, but the transferring thing does.

Financial circumstances can change during college -- death or illness in the family, sibling also going to college, getting married and/or having children -- and maybe the aid package can't quite keep up, or being away from home is not as cost effective as it once was.

Having witnessed some private school defections at the primary and secondary school levels, made for a variety of reasons, I give a lot of leeway to Duke transfers even if they don't make sense to me. Though I certainly understand any jealousy from a student who wanted to get into Duke but didn't; he or she might view each placement more valuably, and mourn any early departure.

[ramdevil]

It's not the 1-year v. the 4-year that is bothersome, to me. There are legit questions as to whether non-profit educational institutions should be operating for-profit professional sports leagues in all but name -- I am a bit uncomfortable about all of that (though have contributed mightily to the 'problem' over the years via money and time on such leagues).

This is my concern also. Should universities be involved with big-money sports? It seems that the baseball model is better for all concerned. I do recognize that this is tilting at a windmill. I think that the system won't change unless it completely breaks down, but I fear that that break down has started.

-ramdevil

[Wander]

Where's the conflict if a software developer leaves school to enter the workforce? Or if a journalism major gets a TV gig before graduating?


Is this a thing that actually happens? Even if it does, I doubt there are "software developers" going to Duke with the explicit intention of leaving after one year before they even start. There's not really a great analogy outside of college sports (grad school is probably the closest academic thing, not other undergrads), no matter what Jay Bilas tells us.

I'm OK with big-time money sports and with Duke having one and dones, but you guys are all being a bit harsh on the OP.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What you're arguing is why not to go to a private school to begin with. Once you are there, I imagine that the University helps you out of you really need it.

Huge different between not going to Duke because of costs and transferring out of Duke because of costs.

I'll follow this little trail for a moment...

Cost is the one and only reason I didn't attend Duke. I say with good confidence that I would have been accepted (I had a stellar transcript) but my parents discouraged me from even putting in the paperwork, as they were horrified of the associated costs, and I was disinclined to take on so much debt when there were many other options. Oddly enough, my parents are both Duke alumni, and I don't think that they see their educations as having not been worth the price of admission (which was WAY lower in the 1960's than in the 1990's of course).

At any rate, as someone who doesn't harbor many regrets in his life, I do sometimes catch myself wondering what life might have been like had I done undergrad at Duke. Of course, in this scenario, I am also the crucial walk-on that helps that 1999 team score just a few more points and hang an extra banner as well.