UNC assistant reacts to the Bolden signing

[Olympic Fan]

UNC assistant coach C.B. McGrath couldn't resist putting Duke in its place. As the news of Bolden's commitment was circulating, he tweets:

And despite all the hype -- last six years -- ZERO ACC regular season championships! You figure it out.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Revisited/theymad.png

First, somebody should tell that clown that the official ACC championship is decided by the ACC Tournament, not the regular season -- and in the last six years, Duke has the same number of ACC championships as UNC (one each).

It's true that Roy has three regular season conference titles in the last six years ... you can hang your hat on that if you want, C.B., us Duke fans will have to settle for our two national titles in that span.

Well, I have to give them credit -- they do have an NIT runnerup trophy in that span that we can't match.

[richardjackson199]

ok that's funny.

Zero regular season ACC championships when we won the National Championship last year.

And this year they didn't - #Big Smooth.

[CameronBlue]

Hey CB is a sharp cookie, nothing gets by him. Well nothing that can't be conveniently ignored like Duke being 9-4 against the Cheats during that time. Go figure.

[arnie]

Hey CB is a sharp cookie, nothing gets by him. Well nothing that can't be conveniently ignored like Duke being 9-4 against the Cheats during that time. Go figure.

I'm sure Roy is giggling - lets his goon take a shot at K.

[TKG]

Maybe the text loses something in its transalation from Swahili.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Love it! Extra locker room material to push the guys even harder this summer.

[PDDuke85]

UNC assistant coach C.B. McGrath couldn't resist putting Duke in its place. As the news of Bolden's commitment was circulating, he tweets:

And despite all the hype -- last six years -- ZERO ACC regular season championships! You figure it out.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Revisited/theymad.png

First, somebody should tell that clown that the official ACC championship is decided by the ACC Tournament, not the regular season -- and in the last six years, Duke has the same number of ACC championships as UNC (one each).

It's true that Roy has three regular season conference titles in the last six years ... you can hang your hat on that if you want, C.B., us Duke fans will have to settle for our two national titles in that span.

Well, I have to give them credit -- they do have an NIT runnerup trophy in that span that we can't match.

VS ZERO attendance in actual academic classes. Coach, you're at UNCheat because you get it.

[brevity]

I guess tweeting "Lame, misleading arguments are all I have to conceal my inferiority" is a little too honest for The Carolina Way.

Dude, you were part of a team that won 5 games in the most recent NCAA Tournament. Take some pride in your work.

[oldnavy]

Wow, just when you think that you have seen or heard the most outrageous thing possible, those morons in CH go and say something as stupid as this...

I just hope that at some point the national press picks up on what we have all know about these arrogant jokers all along and starts reporting the truth.

[plimnko]

when is the last time they won anything WITHOUT cheating?

[Indoor66]

when is the last time they won anything WITHOUT cheating?

Probably when ChoCho played after WWII.

[TKG]

Probably when ChoCho played after WWII.

Our Justise > Their Justice

[FerryFor50]

Hilarious. I asked "how many Helms trophies" and some UNC fan favorited it. Too dumb to know when they are being made fun of.

[FerryFor50]

Love it! Extra locker room material to push the guys even harder this summer.

I'd agree if it mattered enough to spur them on. But I can't imagine anyone getting to amped over that.

[Dukehky]

The unbalanced schedules made the regular season title pretty meaningless. That being said, I'd love to go ahead and win it this year. CB McGrath, he's their big recruiter, not doing a great job.

[Olympic Fan]

Probably when ChoCho played after WWII.

You're kidding right?

Choo Choo Justice was the Cam Newton of his day -- he auctioned off his services to the highest bidder.

Justice himself joked about having to take a pay cut when he went to the NFL.

[madscavenger]

Our Justise > Their Justice

Just about anybody's Justice > Their Justice

[zoroaster]

If his time frame is 6 years, how about two national titles to none? SMH...

edit: oh, I see -- he was referencing the two titles by "all the hype"... and is minimizing NCAA titles for the sake of making his point... sad.

[MChambers]

First time I've ever heard of C. B. McGrath. Hope it's the last.

[OldPhiKap]

First time I've ever heard of C. B. McGrath. Hope it's the last.

Didn't he write and sing Convoy back in the day?

[gurufrisbee]

Complete Buffoon McGrath

Know what else Duke failed to do in the last six years?

Not win a national championship

Lose more than 2/3 of the time to our rival

Have less NBA first round picks than our rival

Be the laughingstock of college basketball because our players don't actually go to class

[jipops]

The unbalanced schedules made the regular season title pretty meaningless. That being said, I'd love to go ahead and win it this year. CB McGrath, he's their big recruiter, not doing a great job.

I don't necessarily agree with this narrative. How is an 18 conference schedule marathon over a few months more meaningless than a 4-5 day (3 days for a top seed) almost random crap shoot. Yes, the schedule is unbalanced and the cheats didn't have to play any of the top half of the conference more than once last season (other than us). But it was still an impressive run for them.

That aside, what exactly is this assistant clown's insinuation here? That Duke has been a failure over the last six years? Really? Hey congrats on your ACC titles, no denying those are accomplishments. But I'm willing to bet if given the choice those cheats would trade those in for a title win in April instead.

I believe all this really does is further validate the cheapness of culture that exists over there. Why have sour grapes over a recruiting process you had ZERO involvement in? It's petty and immature, and not at all surprising.

[cspan37421]

til we get the "Hitler reacts to the Bolden signing" video?

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

til we get the "Hitler reacts to the Bolden signing" video?

Oh! Forgot all about that! Somebody? Please?
Love, Ima

[devildeac]

Duke: 0 Level 1 violations
cheaters: 5 Level 1 violations

Hey, mcgrath, you lying, cheating bastards got us again. Want us to send you a banner? :rolleyes:

[OldPhiKap]

Duke: 0 Level 1 violations
cheaters: 5 Level 1 violations

Hey, mcgrath, you lying, cheating bastards got us again. Want us to send you a banner? :rolleyes:

Mt. Hatemore cred right there.

[MChambers]

Looked him up on Wikipedia, and found this first line:

"The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline."

Seems about right to me.

[RepoMan]

Who is this nozzle: http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205497522? Bio says he has been at UNC for 13 years! Has anyone ever seen or heard of him before today?

[OZ]

I'm sure Roy is giggling - lets his goon take a shot at K.



I'm sure, if asked, Old Roy would deny any knowledge of his assistant's statement.
My question is why would anyone here pay any attention to anything those people say, post or tweet? Nothing anyone at that place has said and/or says holds any measure of validity or relevance to me.

[Indoor66]

I'm sure, if asked, Old Roy would deny any knowledge of his assistant's statement.
My question is why would anyone here pay any attention to anything those people say, post or tweet? Nothing anyone at that place has said and/or says holds any measure of validity or relevance to me.

I look at a little differently, OZ. For me, anything they say is suspect and, probably, totally irrelevant.

[Matches]

Add me to the list of people who have never heard of this guy. Are we sure he's real and not someone who was auto-generated by a video game?

But yea UNC congrats on those ACC regular season titles. Great job.

[Merlindevildog91]

Wow, what a hurtful statement. I will now go cry into my 2010 National Championship banner. Or maybe the 2015 one....

[oldnavy]

I believe C.B. McGrath is the coach I have heard and seen UNC players discuss as being a bit "weird/different" or something along those lines. He is the guy with the clipboard on the bench.

When my wife and kids watch the UNC senior speeches and Late Night with Roy circus shows, McGrath is the coach most of the players just kind of laugh off... I believe.

Anyway, no need for him to just blast something like that out... was he replying to a specific question or charge??

But as said upstream, nothing anyone says from UNC means anything... it is either delusional or a flat out lie...

Our own favorite resident Roy/UNC apologist, Wheat never could give a straight answer to a very simple question of why UNC players take longer to get to the pro's than players ranked similar from other schools....

The best he could come up with was "UNC cares more about their players in terms of life preparation and less about instant gratification"... so, that tells you all you need to know about where their collective mindsets are.

They are just better and they really cannot comprehend how anyone cannot see that. Been dealing with this bs for 55 years.

[Indoor66]

I believe C.B. McGrath is the coach I have heard and seen UNC players discuss as being a bit "weird/different" or something along those lines. He is the guy with the clipboard on the bench.

When my wife and kids watch the UNC senior speeches and Late Night with Roy circus shows, McGrath is the coach most of the players just kind of laugh off... I believe.

Anyway, no need for him to just blast something like that out... was he replying to a specific question or charge??

But as said upstream, nothing anyone says from UNC means anything... it is either delusional or a flat out lie...

Our own favorite resident Roy/UNC apologist, Wheat never could give a straight answer to a very simple question of why UNC players take longer to get to the pro's than players ranked similar from other schools...

The best he could come up with was "UNC cares more about their players in terms of life preparation and less about instant gratification"... so, that tells you all you need to know about where their collective mindsets are.

They are just better and they really cannot comprehend how anyone cannot see that. Been dealing with this bs for 55 years.

That instead of "We don't develop their skills such that the next level desires their services; so they stay here 'till we push them out of their dorm to make room for the next group."

[jimsumner]

Interesting.

Carolina's last two NCAA titles were in 2005 and 2009.

Duke won the ACC Tournament in both of those years.

I assume Carolina would be delighted to make that trade. ACC titles trumping all and everything.

[Steven43]

Our own favorite resident Roy/UNC apologist, Wheat never could give a straight answer to a very simple question of why UNC players take longer to get to the pro's than players ranked similar from other schools...

The best he could come up with was "UNC cares more about their players in terms of life preparation and less about instant gratification"... so, that tells you all you need to know about where their collective mindsets are.

They are just better and they really cannot comprehend how anyone cannot see that. Been dealing with this bs for 55 years.
I have lived in Durham since August of 2000. Shortly after arriving I became aware of many UNC fans having an overwhelming sense of superiority and arrogance, as well as an irrational blind hatred of all things Duke.

I was taken aback and genuinely puzzled by it. And still am, to a degree, though I have come to believe that much of their hatred of Duke is rooted in jealousy and insecurity.

However, what I still cannot figure out is this whole "Carolina Way" stuff and why they think everything about their school is so amazing. Before the cheating scandal I had thought of UNC as academically strong and their men's and women's sports program as being among the nation's elite. I absolutely looked at UNC as a great second choice if my kids were unable to gain acceptance to Duke.

This cheating scandal, though, has really lowered UNC in my eyes as an overall institution. It's shocking beyond belief to see the breadth and depth of the shameless and pervasive cheating UNC has perpetuated. But beyond all that, what is the root of all thevoverwhelming arrogance UNC grads and fans have about their school?

I'm asking a serious question here. Does anyone know why and when UNC became so over-the-top delusional about their school? I'm hopeful some long-time North Carolina residents will be able to shed some light on this subject.

[Edouble]

UNC assistant coach C.B. McGrath couldn't resist putting Duke in its place. As the news of Bolden's commitment was circulating, he tweets:

And despite all the hype -- last six years -- ZERO ACC regular season championships! You figure it out.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Revisited/theymad.png

How about we put this into a time capsule to be revisited around, say, late afternoon on March 11th, when we are celebrating our ACC Championship at the Barclays Center, coming off of our Regular Season ACC Championship?

I guess Bolden can say he made the right decision at that point?

[Edouble]

I have lived in Durham since August of 2000. Shortly after arriving I became aware of many UNC fans having an overwhelming sense of superiority and arrogance, as well as an irrational blind hatred of all things Duke.

I was taken aback and genuinely puzzled by it. And still am, to a degree, though I have come to believe that much of their hatred of Duke is rooted in jealousy and insecurity.

However, what I still cannot figure out is this whole "Carolina Way" stuff and why they think everything about their school is so amazing. Before the cheating scandal I had thought of UNC as academically strong and their men's and women's sports program as being among the nation's elite. I absolutely looked at UNC as a great second choice if my kids were unable to gain acceptance to Duke.

This cheating scandal, though, has really lowered UNC in my eyes as an overall institution. It's shocking beyond belief to see the breadth and depth of the shameless and pervasive cheating UNC has perpetuated. But beyond all that, what is the root of all thevoverwhelming arrogance UNC grads and fans have about their school?

I'm asking a serious question here. Does anyone know why and when UNC became so over-the-top delusional about their school? I'm hopeful some long-time North Carolina residents will be able to shed some light on this subject.

No follow up posts needed. All necessary information is present.

[Pghdukie]

I thought I seen McGrath looking around campus for his AFAM class.

[Steven43]

No follow up posts needed. All necessary information is present.

Well, yes and no. While that does explain their current hatred of Duke, it does not shed light on the origin of their "Carolina Way" nonsense as well as their overall arrogance and sense of superiority. I believe those feelings were present in the UNC fanbase decades before they truly began to hate Duke.

[BD80]

Didn't he write and sing Convoy back in the day?

Would be appropriate, given ol' roy's penchant for rolling a convoy of big rigs over his players. The bus don't stop here!


... That aside, what exactly is this assistant clown's insinuation here? ...

That Duke's recruiting has been on such an elevated level, Duke might be expected to win every prize available every year.

[devildeac]

I don't necessarily agree with this narrative. How is an 18 conference schedule marathon over a few months more meaningless than a 4-5 day (3 days for a top seed) almost random crap shoot. Yes, the schedule is unbalanced and the cheats didn't have to play any of the top half of the conference more than once last season (other than us). But it was still an impressive run for them.

That aside, what exactly is this A-S-S-istant CLOWN's insinuation here? That Duke has been a failure over the last six years? Really? Hey congrats on your ACC titles, no denying those are accomplishments. But I'm willing to bet if given the choice those cheats would trade those in for a title win in April instead.

I believe all this really does is further validate the cheapness of culture that exists over there. Why have sour grapes over a recruiting process you had ZERO involvement in? It's petty and immature, and not at all surprising.

Clarification ;) .

[mattman91]

Clarification ;) .

A-S-S Clown? This place? http://www.assclownbrewing.com

:cool:

[devildeac]

A-S-S Clown? This place? http://www.assclownbrewing.com

:cool:

Ha! I knew about that brewery. Must have been founded by some unc types.

[oldnavy]

Well, yes and no. While that does explain their current hatred of Duke, it does not shed light on the origin of their "Carolina Way" nonsense as well as their overall arrogance and sense of superiority. I believe those feelings were present in the UNC fanbase decades before they truly began to hate Duke.

You ask a great question, but I don't think there is an absolute answer to it.

Original sin???

[Henderson]

A-S-S Clown? This place? http://www.assclownbrewing.com

:cool:

Does he have an "ASSMAN" license plate? There would be pros and cons associated with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tujqM2u-BVo

[subzero02]

I think assistant coaches should refrain from posting bitter comments about recruits they WISH they could land. It's happened a few times this year. I am not surprised to see it from a classless basketball program.

[sagegrouse]

Origin of UNC's attitudes toward Duke.

The propaganda line in small-town North Carolina back in my day, according to friends I know now, was that no one should go to Duke because it was a "Yankee school." At that time I am pretty sure that these were the statistics -- 40 percent from North Carolina, at least ten percent from South Carolina, a lot of Virginians and a scattering of people from elsewhere in the South -- Georgia, Texas, Tennessee, Florida (then a Southern state), etc. Clearly, well over one-half of the student body weas from states of the South, and it was probably more like 2/3.

Maybe a few Yankees went a long way. Hah! Take that! But actually, I think it was just propaganda cooked up by UNC fans and alums. I came from South Carolina, and there was none of that attitude. Duke was slightly exotic, because of its architecture, and thought to be a really good school with -- back then -- a good football team. Duke was then marketing itself to most of the high schools in the Carolinas to great effect. Now there were Yankee schools -- Harvard, Yale and Princeton -- not that enough went there to give any form of report.

[MartyClark]

You ask a great question, but I don't think there is an absolute answer to it.

Original sin???

Did this "Carolina Way" nonsense exist before DES?

[Olympic Fan]

I have lived in Durham since August of 2000. Shortly after arriving I became aware of many UNC fans having an overwhelming sense of superiority and arrogance, as well as an irrational blind hatred of all things Duke.

I was taken aback and genuinely puzzled by it. And still am, to a degree, though I have come to believe that much of their hatred of Duke is rooted in jealousy and insecurity.

However, what I still cannot figure out is this whole "Carolina Way" stuff and why they think everything about their school is so amazing. Before the cheating scandal I had thought of UNC as academically strong and their men's and women's sports program as being among the nation's elite. I absolutely looked at UNC as a great second choice if my kids were unable to gain acceptance to Duke.

This cheating scandal, though, has really lowered UNC in my eyes as an overall institution. It's shocking beyond belief to see the breadth and depth of the shameless and pervasive cheating UNC has perpetuated. But beyond all that, what is the root of all thevoverwhelming arrogance UNC grads and fans have about their school?

I'm asking a serious question here. Does anyone know why and when UNC became so over-the-top delusional about their school? I'm hopeful some long-time North Carolina residents will be able to shed some light on this subject.

I actually think it all stems from the sanctimonious Dean Smith.

Understand that before Smith, UNC's basketball coach was Frank McGuire -- whose teams were a bunch of thugs (as many fights as his South Carolina teams got into a decade later, his North Carolina teams got into more), who blatantly cheated and his team's academic performance was so bad that Chancellor Aycock threatened not to extend his contract unless the academic performance of his team improved. On the football side, UNC bought players in the late '40s (most noteably Choo Choo Justice) and then hired Jim Tatum away from Maryland -- when Tatum was the national face of athletics over academics (the student body at Maryland celebrated losing Tatum who had delayed construction of a new library by demanding the available funds to expand the football facility.

NOBODY was talking about the "Carolina Way" in the days of McGuire and Tatum.

That all changed with Dean Smith, who projected the image of a coach who cared about academics and exhuded class. I actually think there was some reality there in his early years. It was strictly a basketball thing -- read Lawrence Taylor's autobiography to get a glimpse of the shenanigans going on in football in the late '70s and early '80s. But basketball -- and Dean Smith -- overshadowed everything and set the tone.

Of course, we know now that Dean later didn't object to recruiting thugs of his own (the quality of his recruits dropped quickly in the late 1980s) and he was at the helm when the AFAM scandal started (and there were some questionable academic measures even before that). Did he turn a blind eye or did he orchestrate the whole scandal? It has to be one of the two -- or else Smith was lying all those years about his detail-oriented oversight of his players' academic performance.

So, overall, I'd say that Dean Smith is the entire basis of the Carolina Way, although the idea was promoted by the likes of William Friday and a compliant North Carolina media.

And we now know what a phony-baloney Dean Smith was and how phony the Carolina Way was.

[Bob Green]

How is an 18 [game] conference schedule marathon over a few months more meaningless than a 4-5 day (3 days for a top seed) almost random crap shoot.

The theory behind the ACC Tournament is the cream would rise to the top. Back in the day of only one ACC team being able to compete for the National Championship in the NCAA Tournament, the conference desired to ensure the team "playing the best ball right now" represented the conference.

Or at least that's the way it was explained to me in the good ole days of my youth.

Of course, an alternate theory is the ACC Tournament existed to screw over South Carolina as often as possible.

[BD80]

The theory behind the ACC Tournament is the cream would rise to the top. Back in the day of only one ACC team being able to compete for the National Championship in the NCAA Tournament, the conference desired to ensure the team "playing the best ball right now" represented the conference.

Or at least that's the way it was explained to me in the good ole days of my youth.

Of course, an alternate theory is the ACC Tournament existed to screw over South Carolina as often as possible.

win / win

[Olympic Fan]

The theory behind the ACC Tournament is the cream would rise to the top. Back in the day of only one ACC team being able to compete for the National Championship in the NCAA Tournament, the conference desired to ensure the team "playing the best ball right now" represented the conference.

Or at least that's the way it was explained to me in the good ole days of my youth.

Of course, an alternate theory is the ACC Tournament existed to screw over South Carolina as often as possible.

Well, South Carolina won exactly one regular season title during its time in the ACC (1970) ... and exactly one tournament title (1971) ... so the tournament didn't end up costing them a thing.

Same with Maryland, which also I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ed about the tournament. Between 1954 and 1974 (before the NCAA allowed two teams per conference), Maryland won zero regular season titles, but one won tournament title (1958). Put it another way -- for all their I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing about the tournament, Maryland never, ever won a regular season ACC title and failed to get an NCAA bid.

That didn't stop the Terps from whining in 1974 when they lost the championship game to NC State in Greensboro. Tom McMillen cried that Maryland could never get a fair shake on Tobacco Road. That ignored the fact that State had beaten Maryland six straight times, including twice in College Park.

As for the tournament>regular season, that is a direct result of unbalanced schedules -- back in the old Southern Conference (which grew to 17 teams), teams didn't play anything like balanced schedule -- many teams didn't even meet during the regular season. They HAD to play a tournament. The event proved so popular and so profitable that even when the ACC came along and did play a balanced schedule, the tournament was too valuable to the league to let it go.

And even today's unbalanced schedule -- I haven't checked every year, but I know that in 2013, when Miami edged Duke by one game in the regular season standings, Duke actually had a one-game better record in the 14 common opponents they played -- the difference were the four games Duke played that Miami didn't. THAT race was decided by the schedule. And in 2005 (the first year of the unbalanced schedule) UNC edged Wake by one game -- but UNC didn't have to play Wake at Wake.

Maybe not every year, but the unbalanced schedules DOES sometimes impact the race.

[Wander]

As for the tournament>regular season, that is a direct result of unbalanced schedules

The legitimate "unbalanced schedule" argument that applies to the ACC regular season applies quadruple to the ACC tournament.

The ACC regular season is an unbalanced schedule involving 135 games where the team with the best record at the end wins.
The ACC tournament is an unbalanced schedule involving 14 games where the team with the best record at the end wins.

Of course, the unbalanced schedule part of the ACC tournament is partially earned by performance in the regular season. But even with that factor taken into consideration, I feel pretty good about saying that a 135 game series determines rankings better than a 14 game series. We could probably test this when we're bored in the middle of July by looking at the performances of conference vs regular season champions of the larger conferences that have unbalanced schedules.

Obviously, both are far less important than national titles, and the UNC coach is being a whiny loser.

[weezie]

... the UNC coach is being a whiny loser.

But keep in mind that's a prerequisite for the job so at least he's got that going for him.

[Olympic Fan]

The legitimate "unbalanced schedule" argument that applies to the ACC regular season applies quadruple to the ACC tournament.

The ACC regular season is an unbalanced schedule involving 135 games where the team with the best record at the end wins.
The ACC tournament is an unbalanced schedule involving 14 games where the team with the best record at the end wins.

Of course, the unbalanced schedule part of the ACC tournament is partially earned by performance in the regular season. But even with that factor taken into consideration, I feel pretty good about saying that a 135 game series determines rankings better than a 14 game series. We could probably test this when we're bored in the middle of July by looking at the performances of conference vs regular season champions of the larger conferences that have unbalanced schedules.

Obviously, both are far less important than national titles, and the UNC coach is being a whiny loser.

Just to clear up the point I made that the ACC Tournament -- a continuation of the old Southern Conference Tournament -- was the product of unbalanced schedules.

The unbalanced schedules in the '30s and '40s were nothing like the current unbalanced schedules, where everybody plays the same number of games, the same number of home and away and everybody plays everybody once.

In the early days, schedules were wildly uneven -- teams would play between eight and 20 conference games (although you had to play 10 games to qualify for the tournament). Some teams would play 70 percent home games. Some teams dodged all the quality teams in the league. I know that in 1938, The Citadel finished with a 9-1 Southern Conference record -- the best winning percentage in the league -- but didn't play any of the four best teams in the league. Eight of their wins came against the three worst teams in the league. Would it have been fair to crown them champions? Furman did something similar during the Frank Selvy era, essentially ducking all the best teams in the league to compile a strong regular season record.

Obviously, you can make a case that the unbalanced schedule of today is a better determinant of the champion that a five-day tournament. I would disagree, but today's unbalanced schedule is not nearly as ridiculous as what created the tournament.

I don't understand the resistance to a postseason tournament -- we do it in almost every sport. A major league baseball team can prove its superiority over a 162-game schedule, but get bounced out of the playoffs in a short series against a wild card team. The Oakland Warriors proved they were the best team in the NBA over an 82 game schedule ... but if they don't win three of the next five games against the Thunder, they are out of the playoffs. The NCAA doesn't crown the regular season No. 1 team as its champion (or Kentucky would have won the title in 2015). They play a sudden death tournament to decide a champion.

Postseason tournaments and playoffs are the way almost EVERYBODY in sports determines a champion. Why shouldn't the ACC?

[davekay1971]

I don't understand the resistance to a postseason tournament -- we do it in almost every sport.

Postseason tournaments and playoffs are the way almost EVERYBODY in sports determines a champion. Why shouldn't the ACC?

Jeez, next thing you know people will be demanding a playoff for college football, instead of the tried, true, and fair method of allowing the media and/or a bunch of computer models to analyze all the games played by all the teams to fairly choose a champion. What possible sense would it make for a 4 or 8 team, 2 or 3 round playoff, to decide a champion when all these teams have played all these games during the season?

[Furniture]

I have known several kids from the triad area that have got into Duke including my oldest daughter. There has never been nothing but admiration and recognition from many other
kids and parents who have gone to State, UNC and other scbools.
I really don't understand why silly tweet has got to be three pages long.
Take the high road!

[FerryFor50]

I actually think it all stems from the sanctimonious Dean Smith.

Understand that before Smith, UNC's basketball coach was Frank McGuire -- whose teams were a bunch of thugs (as many fights as his South Carolina teams got into a decade later, his North Carolina teams got into more), who blatantly cheated and his team's academic performance was so bad that Chancellor Aycock threatened not to extend his contract unless the academic performance of his team improved. On the football side, UNC bought players in the late '40s (most noteably Choo Choo Justice) and then hired Jim Tatum away from Maryland -- when Tatum was the national face of athletics over academics (the student body at Maryland celebrated losing Tatum who had delayed construction of a new library by demanding the available funds to expand the football facility.

NOBODY was talking about the "Carolina Way" in the days of McGuire and Tatum.

That all changed with Dean Smith, who projected the image of a coach who cared about academics and exhuded class. I actually think there was some reality there in his early years. It was strictly a basketball thing -- read Lawrence Taylor's autobiography to get a glimpse of the shenanigans going on in football in the late '70s and early '80s. But basketball -- and Dean Smith -- overshadowed everything and set the tone.

Of course, we know now that Dean later didn't object to recruiting thugs of his own (the quality of his recruits dropped quickly in the late 1980s) and he was at the helm when the AFAM scandal started (and there were some questionable academic measures even before that). Did he turn a blind eye or did he orchestrate the whole scandal? It has to be one of the two -- or else Smith was lying all those years about his detail-oriented oversight of his players' academic performance.

So, overall, I'd say that Dean Smith is the entire basis of the Carolina Way, although the idea was promoted by the likes of William Friday and a compliant North Carolina media.

And we now know what a phony-baloney Dean Smith was and how phony the Carolina Way was.

I remember always thinking Dean Smith ran things in a way that didn't seem on the up and up, but there was never any evidence - just rumor.

In today's landscape (social media, 24x7 news cycles) we might have heard of *some* things at least. Maybe.

Dean was the teflon don of college basketball.

[oldnavy]

Did this "Carolina Way" nonsense exist before DES?

Marty, I'm old, but I didn't exist before DES!

[oldnavy]

I remember always thinking Dean Smith ran things in a way that didn't seem on the up and up, but there was never any evidence - just rumor.

In today's landscape (social media, 24x7 news cycles) we might have heard of *some* things at least. Maybe.

Dean was the teflon don of college basketball.

Dean was portrayed as one thing by the media, but there was a nearly unanimous dislike of him from his fellow ACC coaches. Mostly due to jealousy I'd guess, but a lot to do with his VERY passive aggressive nature.

He would routinely do things like be the last one to the ACC coaches meeting's (power trip) and he was always making subtle and what was viewed by many as disingenuous and mean spirited comments to the media regarding other programs.

Dean for all his "modesty", was a pretty arrogant man in his own way and I think his peers at the time saw right through him and didn't appreciate the fawning press he received. Dean was quick to deflect attention from himself, but had his staff subscribe to every ACC student paper and every ACC area newspaper to cut out clippings that had to do with UNC. He cared VERY much what people thought of him despite his show of not wanting the spot light or press coverage.

So, I would agree that the "Carolina Way" was birthed by DES and the sycophant media who in NC were mostly UNC grads and fans.

For example, most UNC fans (and fans in general) to this day will praise Dean for never cursing, (remember the flak Coach K took about this, until Ol Roy started dropping curse words during live interviews, and how foul language magically became a non issue with the press soon after?) but few knew or know today that he was a heavy smoker and was well known to imbibe in strong drink frequently, because that was a forbidden topic in the media. I think most reasonable folks would not care much that he had either vice, giving that smoking was MUCH less the social taboo that it is today and widely practiced, and drinking has always been an accepted social activity in most circles. The issues were less about what Dean was doing outside the public's eye, and more to do with how the media represented him as "Saint Dean".

There has been more than one comment or joke comparing Dean Smith to God. Coach K after being told by a recruits mother that she "just wanted her son to go to a school where he could be close to God" replied to her that if he came to Duke, God would be just 10 miles down the road at UNC. The kid went to Oral Roberts btw.

[OldPhiKap]

I actually think it all stems from the sanctimonious Dean Smith.

Understand that before Smith, UNC's basketball coach was Frank McGuire -- whose teams were a bunch of thugs (as many fights as his South Carolina teams got into a decade later, his North Carolina teams got into more), who blatantly cheated and his team's academic performance was so bad that Chancellor Aycock threatened not to extend his contract unless the academic performance of his team improved. On the football side, UNC bought players in the late '40s (most noteably Choo Choo Justice) and then hired Jim Tatum away from Maryland -- when Tatum was the national face of athletics over academics (the student body at Maryland celebrated losing Tatum who had delayed construction of a new library by demanding the available funds to expand the football facility.

NOBODY was talking about the "Carolina Way" in the days of McGuire and Tatum.

That all changed with Dean Smith, who projected the image of a coach who cared about academics and exhuded class. I actually think there was some reality there in his early years. It was strictly a basketball thing -- read Lawrence Taylor's autobiography to get a glimpse of the shenanigans going on in football in the late '70s and early '80s. But basketball -- and Dean Smith -- overshadowed everything and set the tone.

Of course, we know now that Dean later didn't object to recruiting thugs of his own (the quality of his recruits dropped quickly in the late 1980s) and he was at the helm when the AFAM scandal started (and there were some questionable academic measures even before that). Did he turn a blind eye or did he orchestrate the whole scandal? It has to be one of the two -- or else Smith was lying all those years about his detail-oriented oversight of his players' academic performance.

So, overall, I'd say that Dean Smith is the entire basis of the Carolina Way, although the idea was promoted by the likes of William Friday and a compliant North Carolina media.

And we now know what a phony-baloney Dean Smith was and how phony the Carolina Way was.

Ding ding ding!!!

For those who were advocating that students should wear pro-Dean shirts a few years ago when Dean died just didn't have to experience him me suffee his overbearing hypocritical sanctimony.

[Indoor66]

I have known several kids from the triad area that have got into Duke including my oldest daughter. There has never been nothing but admiration and recognition from many other
kids and parents who have gone to State, UNC and other scbools.
I really don't understand why silly tweet has got to be three pages long.
Take the high road!

Act like you've been there before. :rolleyes: Actually, why do we care what a no-name coach at a dump says about anything?

[BD80]

Did this "Carolina Way" nonsense exist before DES?


Marty, I'm old, but I didn't exist before DES!

Were you conceived the "carolina way?"

[jimsumner]

Dean was portrayed as one thing by the media, but there was a nearly unanimous dislike of him from his fellow ACC coaches. Mostly due to jealousy I'd guess, but a lot to do with his VERY passive aggressive nature.

He would routinely do things like be the last one to the ACC coaches meeting's (power trip) and he was always making subtle and what was viewed by many as disingenuous and mean spirited comments to the media regarding other programs.

Dean for all his "modesty", was a pretty arrogant man in his own way and I think his peers at the time saw right through him and didn't appreciate the fawning press he received. Dean was quick to deflect attention from himself, but had his staff subscribe to every ACC student paper and every ACC area newspaper to cut out clippings that had to do with UNC. He cared VERY much what people thought of him despite his show of not wanting the spot light or press coverage.

So, I would agree that the "Carolina Way" was birthed by DES and the sycophant media who in NC were mostly UNC grads and fans.

For example, most UNC fans (and fans in general) to this day will praise Dean for never cursing, (remember the flak Coach K took about this, until Ol Roy started dropping curse words during live interviews, and how foul language magically became a non issue with the press soon after?) but few knew or know today that he was a heavy smoker and was well known to imbibe in strong drink frequently, because that was a forbidden topic in the media. I think most reasonable folks would not care much that he had either vice, giving that smoking was MUCH less the social taboo that it is today and widely practiced, and drinking has always been an accepted social activity in most circles. The issues were less about what Dean was doing outside the public's eye, and more to do with how the media represented him as "Saint Dean".

There has been more than one comment or joke comparing Dean Smith to God. Coach K after being told by a recruits mother that she "just wanted her son to go to a school where he could be close to God" replied to her that if he came to Duke, God would be just 10 miles down the road at UNC. The kid went to Oral Roberts btw.

Mark Acres.

The classic DES-K story is known by most on this board.

But for those who don't.

1984 Duke-Carolina in Cameron. This was the first Duke home game since the Herman Veal game, so Duke was under fire as a program. Sensitive and defensive. With a healthy mixture of defiance.

Anyway. At one point DES had a substitute ready to go in at a dead ball, a free throw perhaps. The game resumed without the reserve being buzzed in. Smith went to the scorer's table and started pounding on it, screaming at the alleged miscreant. The scoreboard went haywire, clock, score and all that.

The officials basically gave Smith a smile and don't-worry, it won't happen again look.

Lots of folks wondered if other coaches might have received something in the nature of a stern look and a technical foul.

Including Mike Krzyzewski. After the game, he very publically criticized a double-standard that existed in the ACC, with one set of standards for Smith and another set for everyone else.

Carolina won the game. But K's postgame was widely viewed--correctly, IMO--as K throwing down the gauntlet.

Game on.

And it still is.

[Wander]

Jeez, next thing you know people will be demanding a playoff for college football, instead of the tried, true, and fair method of allowing the media and/or a bunch of computer models to analyze all the games played by all the teams to fairly choose a champion. What possible sense would it make for a 4 or 8 team, 2 or 3 round playoff, to decide a champion when all these teams have played all these games during the season?

That is not even close to analogous. In fact, there are no analogies to college conference championship tournaments that I know of in other major sports. The equivalent of the ACC tournament isn't the college football playoff. The equivalent of the ACC tournament would be having the Patriots, Dolphins, Jets, and Bills play each in a 4-team tournament after the NFL regular season and before the NFL playoff. Is that something people want to see happen?

I'm not advocating getting rid of the ACC tournament (I think smaller conferences would be better off eliminating their tournaments, but that's another story). It's fun, and sports should be fun. Coaches and ADs take scheduling way too seriously and un-fun-ly. I'm just saying, let's admit conference tournaments are a pretty oddball thing.

[wilson]

That is not even close to analogous. In fact, there are no analogies to college conference championship tournaments that I know of in other major sports. The equivalent of the ACC tournament isn't the college football playoff. The equivalent of the ACC tournament would be having the Patriots, Dolphins, Jets, and Bills play each in a 4-team tournament after the NFL regular season and before the NFL playoff. Is that something people want to see happen?

I'm not advocating getting rid of the ACC tournament (I think smaller conferences would be better off eliminating their tournaments, but that's another story). It's fun, and sports should be fun. Coaches and ADs take scheduling way too seriously and un-fun-ly. I'm just saying, let's admit conference tournaments are a pretty oddball thing.The best equivalent I can come up with are the domestic cups in European soccer. The leagues' annual champions are those who amass the greatest overall resume in terms of points over the season, but the domestic cups are knockout competitions run concurrent to the regular season, with fairly regular interloping by Cinderella teams who finish lower in the season standings. Today's Crystal Palace-Manchester United FA Cup final in England is a good example of this.

[sagegrouse]

That is not even close to analogous. In fact, there are no analogies to college conference championship tournaments that I know of in other major sports. The equivalent of the ACC tournament isn't the college football playoff. The equivalent of the ACC tournament would be having the Patriots, Dolphins, Jets, and Bills play each in a 4-team tournament after the NFL regular season and before the NFL playoff. Is that something people want to see happen?

I'm not advocating getting rid of the ACC tournament (I think smaller conferences would be better off eliminating their tournaments, but that's another story). It's fun, and sports should be fun. Coaches and ADs take scheduling way too seriously and un-fun-ly. I'm just saying, let's admit conference tournaments are a pretty oddball thing.

There used to be only one tournament -- the ACC, plus the original in the Southern Conference. Now, every basketball conference except the Ivy League has a post-season tournament to determine the official NCAA representative.

Wait, not the Ivies? Well, they've now capitulated:


After years as the lone holdout among Division I conferences in not holding a postseason basketball tournament, the Ivy League announced on Thursday that starting next season its automatic bids to the men’s and women’s N.C.A.A. basketball tournaments would be decided by a season-ending playoff.

The Ivy League tournaments will feature only the top four teams, out of the total eight, after the regular season, the conference said in a statement, and will take place shortly before the N.C.A.A. tournament bracket is released. Next season’s tournament will be at the Palestra in Philadelphia, Penn’s home court, on consecutive days — a Saturday and a Sunday — in March.

[jimsumner]

Going back to the first-1954-ACC Tournament.

The ACC schedule was indeed very unbalanced that year. Virginia joined the league late and only played five conference games. Everybody else played between eight and 12.

But the ACC had a double-round-robin beginning in 1955.

So, why continue the tournament?

Everett Case had a lot to do with that. Case came to State from an Indiana preps background and the Indiana high-school tournament was the stuff of legends--and arguably the best basketball movie ever.

Case loved the energy, the enthusiasm and the publicity generated by that tournament and brought it to Tobacco Road. The Southern Conference Tournament had been held at Memorial Auditorium in downtown Raleigh but Case's arrival generated so much enthusiasm that it was moved to Duke for two years, until the larger Reynolds Coliseum opened.

Case argued that an ACC Tournament would help distinguish the new circuit from the old fuddy-duddys, generate enthusiasm and money and publicity.

Plus seven of the eight teams got a new lease on their post-season life.

He had a big ally in Duke AD Eddie Cameron.

The Southern Conference and the CIAA continued their tournaments but the ACC was the only big boy having one. The rest of the college-basket-universe ridiculed the ACC, especially when the format kept home a team like 1960 UNC, 1965 Duke or 1970 South Carolina that had legit national title aspirations.

But the benefits way over-balanced the costs. The ACC Tournament became a must-see event and succeeded way beyond anyone's expectations.

Whether it's relevant in the days of a 68-team tournament is another question.

[Wander]

Wait, not the Ivies? Well, they've now capitulated:

Huh. I didn't know that, thanks.

I think the smaller conferences would have more postseason success if they just sent their regular season champion to their tournament (one example is we missed out on Steph Curry in the NCAA tournament in his last year in college). I guess the TV exposure of their conference tournaments, which I do enjoy watching, is too much to turn down.

[wavedukefan70s]

Were you conceived the "carolina way?"

The joke with that statement around my area involves a six pack of pbr,a dozen blue crab and sugar cookies for the kids lol.

[Newton_14]

Wow, just when you think that you have seen or heard the most outrageous thing possible, those morons in CH go and say something as stupid as this...

I just hope that at some point the national press picks up on what we have all know about these arrogant jokers all along and starts reporting the truth.

Indeed Old Friend. Well stated. That ridiculous tweet reminded me of an old joke back during the Cold War Days of the 80's. It went something like this: A Russian Sports Section of the National News paper covered a special, one off, Olympic contest. What they did not report was that only two Countries participated in the event. The USA and the USSR. The USA won handily, but the Russian Paper posted the following headline for their lead story on the event" "USSR finishes 2nd in the Olympic Style Event, USA finishes Next To Last".


:)

[Stray Gator]

Indeed Old Friend. Well stated. That ridiculous tweet reminded me of an old joke back during the Cold War Days of the 80's. It went something like this: A Russian Sports Section of the National News paper covered a special, one off, Olympic contest. What they did not report was that only two Countries participated in the event. The USA and the USSR. The USA won handily, but the Russian Paper posted the following headline for their lead story on the event" "USSR finishes 2nd in the Olympic Style Event, USA finishes Next To Last".


:)


Just as a footnote, I heard that story about the Soviet propaganda slant on the results of a USA-USSR track meet in 1966-67 from my Russian professor at Duke, Robert Hankin, who was one of the most entertaining teachers I ever had the good fortune to encounter. I don't know if it was intended as a joke, but according to him it was an article published in Pravda.

[TKG]

Pravda, Charlotte Observer. You say tomato, I say........

[Henderson]

Just as a footnote, I heard that story about the Soviet propaganda slant on the results of a USA-USSR track meet in 1966-67 from my Russian professor at Duke, Robert Hankin, who was one of the most entertaining teachers I ever had the good fortune to encounter. I don't know if it was intended as a joke, but according to him it was an article published in Pravda.

The US and USSR met for dual track meets 7 times in the 1960s, but did not in either 1966 or 1967. Still, the story seems plausible, which is what makes the joke funny. It also seems similar to a lot of jokes about the USSR from that era.

[Stray Gator]

The US and USSR met for dual track meets 7 times in the 1960s, but did not in either 1966 or 1967. Still, the story seems plausible, which is what makes the joke funny. It also seems similar to a lot of jokes about the USSR from that era.

Sorry for the miscommunication due to my poor sentence structure -- I heard the story from my professor in 1966-67, while taking Russian as an undergraduate at Duke; the track meet occurred some years earlier.

[subzero02]

The Ivy League tournaments will feature only the top four teams, out of the total eight, after the regular season, the conference said in a statement, and will take place shortly before the N.C.A.A. tournament bracket is released. Next season’s tournament will be at the Palestra in Philadelphia, Penn’s home court, on consecutive days — a Saturday and a Sunday — in March.

That tournament sounds like it would be a lot of fun. This might make it possible for the ivy league to grab 2 bids in the not so distant future.