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MartyClark
05-11-2016, 05:28 PM
It may not be of general interest and, if so, mods can delete. I remember some of those early 1970's South Carolina teams full of scrappy, okay, dirty players. John Roche was, I think, a two time ACC player of the year.

A high profile jury trial is underway in suburban Denver over the Aurora theatre massacre a few years ago. 28 plaintiffs are suing the theatre chain on theories of inadequate security.

John Roche is one of the lead defense attorneys.

His bio says he is the only guy to have played in the NBA while a lawyer. Also a 9 time Denver, age based, tennis champion.

Pretty interesting and lengthy career.

Indoor66
05-11-2016, 05:36 PM
It may not be of general interest and, if so, mods can delete. I remember some of those early 1970's South Carolina teams full of scrappy, okay, dirty players. John Roche was, I think, a two time ACC player of the year.

A high profile jury trial is underway in suburban Denver over the Aurora theatre massacre a few years ago. 28 plaintiffs are suing the theatre chain on theories of inadequate security.

John Roche is one of the lead defense attorneys.

His bio says he is the only guy to have played in the NBA while a lawyer. Also a 9 time Denver, age based, tennis champion.

Pretty interesting and lengthy career.

IRRC, he also did Dick DiVenzio pretty dirty in a game.

ancienteagle
05-11-2016, 05:52 PM
IRRC, he also did Dick DiVenzio pretty dirty in a game.

From my younger days, I remember the cheer:

Dribble! Dribble! Dribble!
Pass! Pass! Pass!
John Roche! John Roche!
Shove it up your a**!

arnie
05-11-2016, 05:59 PM
It may not be of general interest and, if so, mods can delete. I remember some of those early 1970's South Carolina teams full of scrappy, okay, dirty players. John Roche was, I think, a two time ACC player of the year.

A high profile jury trial is underway in suburban Denver over the Aurora theatre massacre a few years ago. 28 plaintiffs are suing the theatre chain on theories of inadequate security.

John Roche is one of the lead defense attorneys.

His bio says he is the only guy to have played in the NBA while a lawyer. Also a 9 time Denver, age based, tennis champion.

Pretty interesting and lengthy career.

Ribach(sp) was the enforcer and considered McGuire's dirtiest player. However, that team fills a warm place in my heart as they beat the Heels on a miracle in ACC finals. I'm 1971, heels ahead by 1, 3 seconds left, jump ball between 6'10" stiff (heels) and 6'3" guard for USC. The stiff gets out jumped and cocks score at buzzer to win by 1. Ha ha ha

Teton Jack
05-11-2016, 06:53 PM
Ribach(sp) was the enforcer and considered McGuire's dirtiest player. However, that team fills a warm place in my heart as they beat the Heels on a miracle in ACC finals. I'm 1971, heels ahead by 1, 3 seconds left, jump ball between 6'10" stiff (heels) and 6'3" guard for USC. The stiff gets out jumped and cocks score at buzzer to win by 1. Ha ha ha

The guard was Kevin Joyce who, by the way had a beautiful jump shot. Was it Eggleston he out-jumped? Used to live near Danny Traylor who was a very good neighbor. Anyone remember Brian Adrienne (spelling?) from Davidson when he almost single-handedly beat South Carolina?

jimsumner
05-11-2016, 07:18 PM
The guard was Kevin Joyce who, by the way had a beautiful jump shot. Was it Eggleston he out-jumped? Used to live near Danny Traylor who was a very good neighbor. Anyone remember Brian Adrienne (spelling?) from Davidson when he almost single-handedly beat South Carolina?

Joyce out-jumped Lee Dedmon, tapping the ball to Tom Owens for the lay-up.

John Ribock. Dirtiest player in ACC history. A hockey goon in basketball shorts.

Bryan Adrian. He was one of those NYC kids McGuire always seemed to get. But not this time.

Vic Bubas very much wanted Owens from that class, to team with Randy Denton, the ultimate twin towers. Bubas was more than willing to take Roche as part of a package deal. But Owens was the bigger deal.

Roche famously edged Charlie Scott twice for ACC POY, in 1969 when Scott had the better team but Roche the better stats and the next year when Roche had the better team but Scott the better stats.

Make up your mind.

And somehow, a few voters during that time didn't think Charlie Scott was an All-ACC caliber player. Hmm.

But Roche was pretty darn good. And pretty courageous for playing on a badly sprained ankle in the 1970 ACC Tournament.

Call me an outlier or even a traitor but I never, ever rooted for McGuire and South Carolina to beat anyone in any ACC Tournament. I really didn't like McGuire.

arnie
05-11-2016, 07:49 PM
Joyce out-jumped Lee Dedmon, tapping the ball to Tom Owens for the lay-up.

John Ribock. Dirtiest player in ACC history. A hockey goon in basketball shorts.

Bryan Adrian. He was one of those NYC kids McGuire always seemed to get. But not this time.

Vic Bubas very much wanted Owens from that class, to team with Randy Denton, the ultimate twin towers. Bubas was more than willing to take Roche as part of a package deal. But Owens was the bigger deal.

Roche famously edged Charlie Scott twice for ACC POY, in 1969 when Scott had the better team but Roche the better stats and the next year when Roche had the better team but Scott the better stats.

Make up your mind.

And somehow, a few voters during that time didn't think Charlie Scott was an All-ACC caliber player. Hmm.

But Roche was pretty darn good. And pretty courageous for playing on a badly sprained ankle in the 1970 ACC Tournament.

Call me an outlier or even a traitor but I never, ever rooted for McGuire and South Carolina to beat anyone in any ACC Tournament. I really didn't like McGuire.

Jim, thanks for the details, but I will have to call you a traitor this one time.

Olympic Fan
05-11-2016, 07:51 PM
Joyce out-jumped Lee Dedmon, tapping the ball to Tom Owens for the lay-up.

John Ribock. Dirtiest player in ACC history. A hockey goon in basketball shorts.

Bryan Adrian. He was one of those NYC kids McGuire always seemed to get. But not this time.

Vic Bubas very much wanted Owens from that class, to team with Randy Denton, the ultimate twin towers. Bubas was more than willing to take Roche as part of a package deal. But Owens was the bigger deal.

Roche famously edged Charlie Scott twice for ACC POY, in 1969 when Scott had the better team but Roche the better stats and the next year when Roche had the better team but Scott the better stats.

Make up your mind.

And somehow, a few voters during that time didn't think Charlie Scott was an All-ACC caliber player. Hmm.

But Roche was pretty darn good. And pretty courageous for playing on a badly sprained ankle in the 1970 ACC Tournament.

Call me an outlier or even a traitor but I never, ever rooted for McGuire and South Carolina to beat anyone in any ACC Tournament. I really didn't like McGuire.

Concur .. we've seen the Duke hatred in recent years, but it never approached the hatred in the ACC for those South Carolina teams (nationally, yes ... but not in the ACC region).

I remember going to the 1971 NCAA regionals in Raleigh, planning to support South Carolina because they were the ACC champ and I was an ACC partisan. But I wasn't there five minutes before I was there, screaming for Penn. The next day, I was there, pulling for Fordham. Of course, in the ACC title game I was pulling for UNC ... in that era, they were my second-favorite team ... of course, I didn't know then what I know now about their crooked program (although I'm not sure how crooked the program was in 1971 ... not long ago, Dick Grubar -- a UNC star from 1967-69 -- told me how disgusted he was about the revelations he was reading and he swore to me that his UNC teams were clean).

Back to SC ... they brawled around the league. As Jim said, Ribock was the main culprit, but Roche and Joyce both had their thuggish moments. Actually, I think it all goes back to McGuire -- his old UNC teams also brawled around the league.

Teton Jack
05-11-2016, 07:54 PM
I remember a Roche led Gamecock squad beating UNC with Roche consistently hitting these runners over UNC defenders. Hate to tell you, Jim, but I loved seeing UNC lose. Also loved Adrian beating UNC and South Carolina.

Olympic Fan
05-11-2016, 08:05 PM
I remember a Roche led Gamecock squad beating UNC with Roche consistently hitting these runners over UNC defenders. Hate to tell you, Jim, but I loved seeing UNC lose. Also loved Adrian beating UNC and South Carolina.

Actually, I don't believe Adrian ever played against North Carolina -- remember, Lefty was always mad at Dean for refusing to play Davidson. The only two matchups in that era were in the NCAA Tournament and UNC won both of those ... and Adrian didn't play in either.

He did lead Davidson to a pretty monumental upset of Roche and South Carolina when Terry Holland was coaching the Wildcats.

moonpie23
05-12-2016, 11:41 AM
those were my college years......gamecock through and through....

on track to challenge UCLA when Roche went down in the 1970 ACC tourny....(back when you had to win the tourny to move on...)


they were an awesome team to watch....wasn't really proud of them during the infamous usc/md bench brawl that had lefty drizell getting cold cocked by Ribock...but still, great team...

Devil2
05-12-2016, 12:15 PM
Jim, thanks for the details, but I will have to call you a traitor this one time.

You obviously never saw or met Frank McGuire. No more arrogant, nasty S*B ever coached.

I remember being in Cameron as a student right behind the USC bench, which was possible at that time We screamed every vulgarity known to man during the game, making McGuire hold his timeouts at center court. When it became certain USC would win, he had Owens and Ribock throw Gatorade at us. Ribock greatest skill was hurting people. He was 6"8, 240lbs and mean. He was one of the few non New-Yorkers on the team. I think he was from Augusta, Ga.

Devil2
05-12-2016, 12:20 PM
You obviously never saw or met Frank McGuire. No more arrogant, nasty S*B ever coached.

I remember being in Cameron as a student right behind the USC bench, which was possible at that time We screamed every vulgarity known to man during the game, making McGuire hold his timeouts at center court. When it became certain USC would win, he had Owens and Ribock throw Gatorade at us. Ribock greatest skill was hurting people. He was 6"8, 240lbs and mean. He was one of the few non New-Yorkers on the team. I think he was from Augusta, Ga.

Also, Adrian played for Jack Curran at Archbishop Molloy HS in Queens, the same school that sent Kevin Joyce and Brian Winters to USC. I saw him play in a HS tournament in DC and he could really score. Don't know how he didn't end up playing for McGuire. He was really underrated in HS.

Joyce was also a great player. Cousy called him the best HS player he ever saw. Besides a great jump shot, he could reverse dunk from a standing position under the basket.

Olympic Fan
05-12-2016, 12:49 PM
those were my college years...gamecock through and through...

on track to challenge UCLA when Roche went down in the 1970 ACC tourny...(back when you had to win the tourny to move on...)


they were an awesome team to watch...wasn't really proud of them during the infamous usc/md bench brawl that had lefty drizell getting cold cocked by Ribock...but still, great team...

The second picture, showing Ribock about to slug Driesell, while a South Carolina player held Driesell's arms from behind, is one of the iconic photos in ACC history. In the postgame press conference, Driesell claimed he was slugged by Ribock. When reporters asked McGuire about that, he laughed and said, "Lefty must have punched himself."

Is it any wonder that McGuire was hated around the league?

Of course, the photo published the next day proved what happened. Just as a followup -- no action was taken against Ribock -- no suspension, no book reports and he wasn't even forbidden from choosing the team meal. No action was taken against Roche when he kneed Dick DeVenzio on the ground (the two had scambled for a loose ball and as Roche got up, he dropped back down on DeVenzio). No penalty against Joyce for kicking George Karl.

It was a frustrating time to be an ACC fan -- the "Cocks" were good, but they were also thugs who got away with everything. Well, they go away with everything as far as the ACC was concerned. But there was this amazing karma thing. In the next meeting with Maryland after Ribock punched Driesell, the Terps (just 14-12 that season and 5-9 overall) upset South Carolina in College Park. And the game after Joyce kicked Karl, UNC upset the Gamecocks in Chapel Hill. And while Duke didn't win the rematch in 1970 after Roche kneed DeVenzio, Duke did upset the 'Cocks in 1971, a year later -- a win that denied South Carolina a share of the ACC regular season title.

arnie
05-12-2016, 01:00 PM
You obviously never saw or met Frank McGuire. No more arrogant, nasty S*B ever coached.

I remember being in Cameron as a student right behind the USC bench, which was possible at that time We screamed every vulgarity known to man during the game, making McGuire hold his timeouts at center court. When it became certain USC would win, he had Owens and Ribock throw Gatorade at us. Ribock greatest skill was hurting people. He was 6"8, 240lbs and mean. He was one of the few non New-Yorkers on the team. I think he was from Augusta, Ga.

Actually, my dad was a gamecock and we watched a Duke-SC game in Cameron (Duke Indoor) in the early 70s together when I was at Duke. Somehow Duke won, can't remember the year and I certainly saw McGuire's antics many times.
However there a certain self evident truths in life and 9F is the greatest of all.

Bob Green
05-12-2016, 01:14 PM
I was a huge fan of John Roche and those USC teams rooting hard for them in all games except against Duke, but I was a 10 or 11 year old youngster and did not realize the Gamecocks were a dirty bunch.

captmojo
05-12-2016, 03:23 PM
I was a huge fan of John Roche and those USC teams rooting hard for them in all games except against Duke, but I was a 10 or 11 year old youngster and did not realize the Gamecocks were a dirty bunch.

I admired the way he handled the ball. The standing straight up dribble, back and forth through the legs. It seemed unique from others.

Teton Jack
05-12-2016, 03:39 PM
I don't remember a Maryland-USC fight, but I recall one versus Marquette. When the fight broke out, the Marquette players on the bench grabbed their metal chairs and chased the Gamecocks off the floor.

By the way, I was wrong about the Davidson game vs. North Carolina. In my "senior moments" I consider every game a UNC loss.

budwom
05-12-2016, 03:43 PM
I feel compelled to share some experiences/observations since I wrote for the Chronicle in this era, and witnessed some interesting stuff. In no particular order:

1) The level of hate and tension when South Carolina came into Cameron during the Roche period was nearly indescribable. I have never seen a Duke-UNC
game approach that level of tension and contempt. A very unique experience. People who experienced this know what I'm talking about. (Oly references this above).

2) As a writer, I was hosted by (as was the custom) the South Carolina SID when Duke came to town. Much brownbagging in nice restaurants, unique
experience for me (New England boy), the SID had a briefcase filled with liquor.

When one of the Durham writers asked the SID (keep in mind, this is THE university's Sports Information Director) about Kevin Joyce, the SID chuckled and
said "that kid's got some n****r blood in him." Whoa Nelly. And he wasn't even drunk yet. And he said this in front of about six or seven other people, including several
Durham paper writers and the Duke SID.

3) Yes, John Ribock was a goon. But, consider this: a good pal of mine (who was from Columbia, SC) particularly hated Ribock (easy to do).
Some years later, his mom developed a rare blood condition, she needed a donor whose blood had certain characteristics (don't recall
the specifics, but rare blood needed to be found and donated).

John Ribock ended up being the donor, and indeed saved her life. A nice curveball from the universe on that one...(I believe messrs Sumner and Oly know this
pal of mine as well, but perhaps not this story.)

arnie
05-12-2016, 03:49 PM
I don't remember a Maryland-USC fight, but I recall one versus Marquette. When the fight broke out, the Marquette players on the bench grabbed their metal chairs and chased the Gamecocks off the floor.

By the way, I was wrong about the Davidson game vs. North Carolina. In my "senior moments" I consider every game a UNC loss.

Absolutely, except for maybe the Minnesota-Ohio State game (Luke Witte), this was the most intense brawl I've seen in college bball (not old enough to remember Heyman, etc). The Marquette/South Carolina brawl had more racial undertones than the others. The Grayson Allen "escapades" wouldn't even register back in the 60s and 70s.

Atldukie79
05-12-2016, 03:59 PM
Joyce out-jumped Lee Dedmon, tapping the ball to Tom Owens for the lay-up.

John Ribock. Dirtiest player in ACC history. A hockey goon in basketball shorts.

Bryan Adrian. He was one of those NYC kids McGuire always seemed to get. But not this time.

Vic Bubas very much wanted Owens from that class, to team with Randy Denton, the ultimate twin towers. Bubas was more than willing to take Roche as part of a package deal. But Owens was the bigger deal.

Roche famously edged Charlie Scott twice for ACC POY, in 1969 when Scott had the better team but Roche the better stats and the next year when Roche had the better team but Scott the better stats.

Make up your mind.

And somehow, a few voters during that time didn't think Charlie Scott was an All-ACC caliber player. Hmm.

But Roche was pretty darn good. And pretty courageous for playing on a badly sprained ankle in the 1970 ACC Tournament.

Call me an outlier or even a traitor but I never, ever rooted for McGuire and South Carolina to beat anyone in any ACC Tournament. I really didn't like McGuire.

Regarding the infamous jump ball when Joyce out jumped Lee Dedmon, the film shows an interesting anomaly. Joyce appears to be at the edge of the circle, not on the line, and times his jump by getting a running start. It was still an impressive leap. I have not seen that done before or since. I figured it was technically against the rules. Who knows?

Reilly
05-12-2016, 04:04 PM
... And he wasn't even drunk yet ...

I think that to myself quite often when reading some pre-noon DBR posts ....

jimsumner
05-12-2016, 10:51 PM
I feel compelled to share some experiences/observations since I wrote for the Chronicle in this era, and witnessed some interesting stuff. In no particular order:

1) The level of hate and tension when South Carolina came into Cameron during the Roche period was nearly indescribable. I have never seen a Duke-UNC
game approach that level of tension and contempt. A very unique experience. People who experienced this know what I'm talking about. (Oly references this above).

2) As a writer, I was hosted by (as was the custom) the South Carolina SID when Duke came to town. Much brownbagging in nice restaurants, unique
experience for me (New England boy), the SID had a briefcase filled with liquor.

When one of the Durham writers asked the SID (keep in mind, this is THE university's Sports Information Director) about Kevin Joyce, the SID chuckled and
said "that kid's got some n****r blood in him." Whoa Nelly. And he wasn't even drunk yet. And he said this in front of about six or seven other people, including several
Durham paper writers and the Duke SID.

3) Yes, John Ribock was a goon. But, consider this: a good pal of mine (who was from Columbia, SC) particularly hated Ribock (easy to do).
Some years later, his mom developed a rare blood condition, she needed a donor whose blood had certain characteristics (don't recall
the specifics, but rare blood needed to be found and donated).

John Ribock ended up being the donor, and indeed saved her life. A nice curveball from the universe on that one...(I believe messrs Sumner and Oly know this
pal of mine well, but perhaps not this story.)

My fondest memory of the 1971 Duke-USC game at Duke--other than Duke winning--was a Duke student throwing an uncooked chicken at the USC bench during the pre-game introductions.

Good times.

My dislike of these guys shouldn't dim the fact that they could play.

Roche and Owens not only had game they had great chemistry. My freshman year-1968-'69 they put on a two-man clinic at Duke; give and go, pick and roll, just running Duke ragged. Roche scored 37. Owens 26 in an 82-72 SC win.

Duke also lost to Columbia. But Bubas-in what could have been his final game--got Duke ready for a match in the ACC Tournament semifinals and Duke won

Duke led UNC by double-digits in the second half the next night in the title game. But Charlie Scott--there's that name again-absolutely torched Duke down the stretch, 28 points in the second half.

Let me make myself clear. Give me a choice between John Roche at his peak and Charlie Scott at his peak and I would not hesitate to take Scott. He wasn't as good as David Thompson. But I think he was as good as any other ACC wing I've seen in person. , Michael Jordan, Grant Hill, anybody.

JTH
05-13-2016, 07:46 AM
Regarding the infamous jump ball when Joyce out jumped Lee Dedmon, the film shows an interesting anomaly. Joyce appears to be at the edge of the circle, not on the line, and times his jump by getting a running start. It was still an impressive leap. I have not seen that done before or since. I figured it was technically against the rules. Who knows?

This is a rather grainy video of that jump ball. It always interested me that unc seemed to not defend the basket and basically had everyone playing for a tip back away from the rim. You may notice that the one unc defender positioned close to the basket, broke towards the back court as soon as the ball went up. I suppose they were playing "all in" on a Dedmon tip away from the basket. Easy to second guess now, but it would seem that gave USC a much better chance. Even if the ball is tipped into the back court and USC had managed to get the ball, that would have been a very difficult situation to make a shot, with any reasonable defense. USC really only had one outside threat (Roche) since Joyce was in no position to shoot.

I would never have guessed Joyce could get that tip against Dedmon (who was actually a pretty solid player), but jump balls can be a crap shoot and there is no way I would not defend the basket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88sI41IsN-E

budwom
05-13-2016, 08:09 AM
that moment was almost as wonderful as the time Eddie Fogler bounced the ball off his own leg to lose the ACC tournament.

Reilly
05-13-2016, 08:28 AM
... You may notice that the one unc defender positioned close to the basket, broke towards the back court as soon as the ball went up. ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88sI41IsN-E

Thanks for posting that. One of the comments under the video says the player was George Karl. I wasn't aware of this game/story -- nice day-brightener to think of UNC disappointment, here 45 years later.

Ggallagher
05-13-2016, 08:59 AM
Wow, this really brings back some strong memories. And I agree, the hatred for South Carolina during that period was unlike anything I had ever experienced. Three things stand out especially related to South Carolina.

1- My last night on campus as a student was the night Duke beat SC 82-71 on February 1, 1971. (I was a mid year graduate). I could not have imagined any better way to head off into the world for my new job.
2 - I have never forgotten the image of DeVenzio racing down the court on a fast break once, and Roche running him down from behind and tackling him. It was a great tackle.
3- And several years later there was a Sport Illustrated article on the USC teams of that era. Roche's mother was quoted as saying how much she felt she owed to McGuire. She said without McGuire's influence, John would have just grown up as a street thug. I guess being a court thug was OK.

Thanks for refreshing the memories :)

Olympic Fan
05-13-2016, 01:08 PM
This is a rather grainy video of that jump ball. It always interested me that unc seemed to not defend the basket and basically had everyone playing for a tip back away from the rim. You may notice that the one unc defender positioned close to the basket, broke towards the back court as soon as the ball went up. I suppose they were playing "all in" on a Dedmon tip away from the basket. Easy to second guess now, but it would seem that gave USC a much better chance. Even if the ball is tipped into the back court and USC had managed to get the ball, that would have been a very difficult situation to make a shot, with any reasonable defense. USC really only had one outside threat (Roche) since Joyce was in no position to shoot.

I would never have guessed Joyce could get that tip against Dedmon (who was actually a pretty solid player), but jump balls can be a crap shoot and there is no way I would not defend the basket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88sI41IsN-E

Some fascinating aspects to that jump ball ....

It was in fact, the SECOND jump ball in front of the South Carolina basket in the final 25 seconds. The first matched Dedmon against South Carolina center Tom Riker. UNC was up 51-50. Dean called timeout and set up the play -- Dedmon was able to tip the ball to Bill Chamberlain, who grabbed it like a rebound and got the ball to George Karl who was fouled with 18 seconds left.

Karl was an 80 percent FT shooter, but he missed the first shot of the one-and-one and South Carolina rebounded and had a second chance. They wanted to go to Roche, but he couldn't get open. Joyce took it upon himself to drive the baseline. He was 1-of-10 from the floor in the game and this one (his 10th attempt) was blocked by Dedmon, leading to the jump ball with six seconds to play.

Dean called another timeout and decided that this time, they would use Chamberlain (his most athletic player) as a decoy. The tap was supposed to go to Karl in front of the South Carolina bench. But somebody -- Dean would never say who -- lined up wrong, leaving Owens open when Joyce beat Dedmon to the jump (I don't think he out-jumped him ... he just jumped quicker).

At the time, the clock didn't stop after a made basket and by the time UNC got a timeout called, there was one second left. Dean tried a trick play that he had been saving, where the inbounds passer would run the baseline and forcing the defender facing him to run to. The idea was to run the defender unto a screen and get the foul call. They even warned the refs that was what they were going to do. The play worked perfectly -- Rick Aydlett crashed into Karl with some violence ... except the refs refused to call the foul.

One other odd aspect to the jump ball -- the game-winning play was a replay of almost exactly the same play at exactly the same basket in the first round of the tournament. Late in the Wake Forest-Virginia game, 6-1 Charlie Davis of Wake beat 6-10 Scott McCandlish of Virginia on a jump ball, tipping it to Bob Rhoads for the score.

PS I don't know for sure, but I've always thought Dennis Wuycik (the longtime publisher of the Poop Sheet) was the player who lined up wrong and gave Owens the clear path to the basket.

arnie
05-13-2016, 05:09 PM
Some fascinating aspects to that jump ball ...

It was in fact, the SECOND jump ball in front of the South Carolina basket in the final 25 seconds. The first matched Dedmon against South Carolina center Tom Riker. UNC was up 51-50. Dean called timeout and set up the play -- Dedmon was able to tip the ball to Bill Chamberlain, who grabbed it like a rebound and got the ball to George Karl who was fouled with 18 seconds left.

Karl was an 80 percent FT shooter, but he missed the first shot of the one-and-one and South Carolina rebounded and had a second chance. They wanted to go to Roche, but he couldn't get open. Joyce took it upon himself to drive the baseline. He was 1-of-10 from the floor in the game and this one (his 10th attempt) was blocked by Dedmon, leading to the jump ball with six seconds to play.

Dean called another timeout and decided that this time, they would use Chamberlain (his most athletic player) as a decoy. The tap was supposed to go to Karl in front of the South Carolina bench. But somebody -- Dean would never say who -- lined up wrong, leaving Owens open when Joyce beat Dedmon to the jump (I don't think he out-jumped him ... he just jumped quicker).

At the time, the clock didn't stop after a made basket and by the time UNC got a timeout called, there was one second left. Dean tried a trick play that he had been saving, where the inbounds passer would run the baseline and forcing the defender facing him to run to. The idea was to run the defender unto a screen and get the foul call. They even warned the refs that was what they were going to do. The play worked perfectly -- Rick Aydlett crashed into Karl with some violence ... except the refs refused to call the foul.

One other odd aspect to the jump ball -- the game-winning play was a replay of almost exactly the same play at exactly the same basket in the first round of the tournament. Late in the Wake Forest-Virginia game, 6-1 Charlie Davis of Wake beat 6-10 Scott McCandlish of Virginia on a jump ball, tipping it to Bob Rhoads for the score.

PS I don't know for sure, but I've always thought Dennis Wuycik (the longtime publisher of the Poop Sheet) was the player who lined up wrong and gave Owens the clear path to the basket.

I don't remember UNC having 1 second left and the YouTube indicates the game is over after the Owens layup. Not saying you're wrong; I just don't remember it. I do recall the local station ending the broadcast quickly and going directly to scheduled 11 pm news. Gamecock fans were upset no post game was shown.

Olympic Fan
05-13-2016, 05:14 PM
I don't remember UNC having 1 second left and the YouTube indicates the game is over after the Owens layup. Not saying you're wrong; I just don't remember it. I do recall the local station ending the broadcast quickly and going directly to scheduled 11 pm news. Gamecock fans were upset no post game was shown.

I guarantee you that's what happened ... I was there (in a working capacity). I was at the postgame where Dean whined about not getting the call on the inbounds.

Actually, when the ref refused to blow the whistle after the Aydlett-Karl collision, the UNC inbounder (don't remember who) was so non-plussed that he threw the ball out of bounds near midcourt. Since the ball was not touched, it came back to the baseline and South Carolina had to throw it in to end the game.

Teton Jack
05-13-2016, 05:51 PM
I remember that night in Cameron when Rhoades and Davis made Duke suffer. Kind of expected it from Davis but not Rhoades.

wsb3
05-13-2016, 05:57 PM
I was a huge fan of John Roche and those USC teams rooting hard for them in all games except against Duke, but I was a 10 or 11 year old youngster and did not realize the Gamecocks were a dirty bunch.

I was the same way as a young boy during that time.

jimsumner
05-13-2016, 07:21 PM
I guarantee you that's what happened ... I was there (in a working capacity). I was at the postgame where Dean whined about not getting the call on the inbounds.

Actually, when the ref refused to blow the whistle after the Aydlett-Karl collision, the UNC inbounder (don't remember who) was so non-plussed that he threw the ball out of bounds near midcourt. Since the ball was not touched, it came back to the baseline and South Carolina had to throw it in to end the game.

Carolina tried the same play in the 1975 NCAA Tournament, down 78-76 to Syracuse with a second or two left.

Didn't get the call that time either.

77devil
05-13-2016, 08:03 PM
Carolina tried the same play in the 1975 NCAA Tournament, down 78-76 to Syracuse with a second or two left.

Didn't get the call that time either.

That's the time I remember, not that I could remember the exact year or game, nor could I find it on web this afternoon. I believe Dean gave the refs a heads up in this game too.

MartyClark
05-13-2016, 08:52 PM
I have loved all this ACC history! I think this period of the ACC was extremely interesting.

I know Roche a little bit. I'm not sure he remembers who I am but I ran into him in the courthouse a few weeks ago and we exchanged a few words.

I graduated from Northern Illinois University in 1972. We had a really good basketball team that lost to South Carolina in the old Chicago Stadium, in a college basketball double header. Roche was gone but I was very impressed by Brian Winter, Tom Riker, and Kevin Joyce.

NIU had Jim Bradley who died in an alley shooting while playing for the Portland Trailblazers and Billy "The Kid" Harris who Slam Magazine picked as the best playground player of all time. I knew both of those guys a bit and played pick up ball against them.

To further digress, the old college basketball doubleheaders at Chicago Stadium were the best. Cheap tickets, no frills, rabid fans. It was basketball heaven by Midwest standards.

Reilly
05-14-2016, 08:01 AM
... Roche ... I ran into him in the courthouse a few weeks ago and we exchanged a few words ...

From reading the thread, it sounds like you got off lucky that it was just words and not punches ...

jimsumner
05-14-2016, 01:48 PM
From reading the thread, it sounds like you got off lucky that it was just words and not punches ...

Roche probably doesn't carry John Ribock around for protection any more. :)

AtlDuke72
05-16-2016, 11:04 AM
Roche probably doesn't carry John Ribock around for protection any more. :)

What I remember about Roche and the Gamecocks was a game in Cameron when Roche and Owens ran a pick and roll for what seemed like the whole game and Duke just could not stop them. Those guys were really good (and obnoxious). I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Bobby Cremins who started on that team. Bobby is one of the nicest guys who ever lived - hard to imaging that he played on that team.

jimsumner
05-16-2016, 12:32 PM
What I remember about Roche and the Gamecocks was a game in Cameron when Roche and Owens ran a pick and roll for what seemed like the whole game and Duke just could not stop them. Those guys were really good (and obnoxious). I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Bobby Cremins who started on that team. Bobby is one of the nicest guys who ever lived - hard to imaging that he played on that team.

I mentioned that game upthread. It was 1969. Roche scored 37, Owens 26.

ipatent
05-17-2016, 10:02 AM
I may have seen John Roche speak once, but his playing days are before my time.....and I thought I was one of the old timers on the Duke boards.

Indoor66
05-17-2016, 10:13 AM
I may have seen John Roche speak once, but his playing days are before my time...and I thought I was one of the old timers on the Duke boards.

There are some on this board who go back to Dick Groat! I only go back to the first Orange Bowl (1955).

captmojo
05-17-2016, 10:46 AM
I was only born the year after that Orange Bowl.

I usually say that I was born the same year Alan Freed first broadcast the words, "Rock and Roll".

I think I was born along with it. I've been known for making a racket ever since. ;)

jimsumner
05-17-2016, 10:22 PM
I may have seen John Roche speak once, but his playing days are before my time....and I thought I was one of the old timers on the Duke boards.

If you can't remember single-platoon football, you don't even get in the old-timer door. :)

Indoor66
05-18-2016, 08:03 AM
If you can't remember single-platoon football, you don't even get in the old-timer door. :)

Yea Bednarik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Bednarik).

oldnavy
05-18-2016, 08:21 AM
I was gifted "The Legends" on audio by a friend. I am in the first few chapters, but Feinstein mentioned that Coach K while playing at Army upset SC in a game in the garden. He said that Krzyzewski shut down John Roache in that game.

I found that to be very interesting.

Any of you old timers know about that game?

Reilly
05-18-2016, 09:29 AM
I was gifted "The Legends" on audio by a friend. I am in the first few chapters, but Feinstein mentioned that Coach K while playing at Army upset SC in a game in the garden. He said that Krzyzewski shut down John Roache in that game.

I found that to be very interesting.

Any of you old timers know about that game?

Would it be the March 18, 1969 NIT game:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/army/1969-schedule.html

oldnavy
05-18-2016, 10:19 AM
Would it be the March 18, 1969 NIT game:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/army/1969-schedule.html

That is exactly the game, but I cannot find a box score to see how Roche did in the game. And, I had no idea that Coach K guarded him.

I think it is very interesting...

Reilly
05-18-2016, 10:23 AM
Found this 1969 NIT preview ... Harry DeVoid appears to have been the Ken Pomeroy of his day:

http://newspapers.bc.edu/cgi-bin/bostonsh?a=d&d=bcheights19690311.2.47

... and notice the side article about 38-year old Duke assistant Daly getting the BC job ...


Chansky book says K held Roche to 6 points:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_O1UFZ89S6UC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=1969+army+south+carolina+nit+box+score&source=bl&ots=A3UKsQJmgg&sig=60hbIj8JtdVV14JGa1ZQ7MkU3lE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJj8bp6uPMAhXLeD4KHcokCrUQ6AEISjAI#v=on epage&q=1969%20army%20south%20carolina%20nit%20box%20sco re&f=false

Olympic Fan
05-18-2016, 01:15 PM
Found this 1969 NIT preview ... Harry DeVoid appears to have been the Ken Pomeroy of his day:

http://newspapers.bc.edu/cgi-bin/bostonsh?a=d&d=bcheights19690311.2.47

... and notice the side article about 38-year old Duke assistant Daly getting the BC job ...


Chansky book says K held Roche to 6 points:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_O1UFZ89S6UC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=1969+army+south+carolina+nit+box+score&source=bl&ots=A3UKsQJmgg&sig=60hbIj8JtdVV14JGa1ZQ7MkU3lE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJj8bp6uPMAhXLeD4KHcokCrUQ6AEISjAI#v=on epage&q=1969%20army%20south%20carolina%20nit%20box%20sco re&f=false

Not to diminish K's defensive accomplishment of shutting down Roche in that NIT game, but I should mention that South Carolina was handicapped by the loss of guard Billy Walsh. He was a sophomore guard (like Roche) who averaged nearly 13 points a game (he was the team's No. 3 scorer after Roche and Owens). Unfortunately, between South Carolina's victory over Southern Illinois and the game with Army, he pit his hand through a glass revolving door at the team's hotel and was cut badly -- and unable to play against Army.

That was a huge blow for South Carolina -- that '69 team was essentially a five-man team. In fact, when they lost a close game to Duke in the ACC Tournament semifinals, they played just five men. The six guy, junior Gene Spencer played less than 10 minutes a game and averaged 1.6 points (and that was the best of the subs). When he stepped into the starting lineup against Army, it was essentially four against five. That had to help the Cadets.

BTW: Walsh was on academic probation to start the 1969-70 season. He never regained his eligibility. But McGuire had added Kevin Joyce, Tom Riker and Bob Carver, so Walsh's absence was not missed.

Also, the guy you mention in your link -- Harry Devoid -- is actually Harry DeVold (not your fault, the newspaper you link to made the typo). DeVold was well known in that era for both college football and college basketball rankings. Interesting that he had Drake ranked down at No. 10. Two weeks after that, Drake would take No. 1 UCLA to the wire in the NCAA semifinals. It was by far the closest Final Four game UCLA endured between its loss to Wake Forest in the 1962 consolation game and its loss to NC State in the 1974 semifinals.