Brodhead leaving

[aimo]

http://wncn.com/2016/04/28/dukes-brodhead-to-step-down-next-year/

[Doria]

http://wncn.com/2016/04/28/dukes-brodhead-to-step-down-next-year/

Interesting. Were there any strong indicators earlier? Not living in NC, I don't get much news on this level, without looking for it, but I'd not seen anything prior.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

http://today.duke.edu/2016/04/brodheadannouncement

[Tappan Zee Devil]

https://today.duke.edu/2016/04/brodheadmessage-0

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Interesting. Were there any strong indicators earlier? Not living in NC, I don't get much news on this level, without looking for it, but I'd not seen anything prior.

Leaving after 13 years as president of a major university is pretty standard, if not a little long. Nan did 11 years before him. He will be 70 at the time he retires. Usually they try to align the retirement of a president with the end of a capital campaign - I have lost track of how the current campaign is doing (it seems like it is going on forever, though it has slowed after a very enthusiastic start). Nothing at all unusual in this announcement.

Someone will have to start a "2017 President Carousel thread" to post thoughts on potential replacements - Brad Stevens or Jeff Capel?

[sagegrouse]

Brodhead was born April 17, 1947 and will be 70 at the end of the next academic year, his date of departure. This all makes sense.

I saw Dick Brodhead at the Duke Forward event in DC last night, and he was highly animated -- much more even than usual -- and I had seen him at a similar event back in Denver a few months ago. Hmmm,... I said to myself, what's going on? Well, we found out today.

[OldPhiKap]

Good times,
Bad times,
You know I've had my share. . . .

[cspan37421]

Someone will have to start a "2017 President Carousel thread" to post thoughts on potential replacements - Brad Stevens or Jeff Capel?

How about Bilas? Surely he's grown tired of railing against the NCAA, and I think a few here might not mind seeing him apply his talents in a different role. I bet he could really raise funds. Duke could use a legal mind at the top, too, given some of the missteps of the last 10 years.

[Olympic Fan]

Haven't been a big fan of Brodhead since the spring of 2006 (no need to recount the reasons for my distaste) ... so I can't say I'm sorry to see him, leave.

On the other hand, every time we change Presidents, Coach K makes us sweat out a very public flirtation with the NBA ... not looking forward to going through that again.

[cspan37421]

every time we change Presidents, Coach K makes us sweat out a very public flirtation with the NBA ... not looking forward to going through that again.

I think this time we should be good. What is left for him to negotiate? What might he want, that we can give him?

[TKG]

Condoleezza Rice.

[-jk]

A Duke farewell: Aaah.... See ya!

-jk

[Kdogg]

On the other hand, every time we change Presidents, Coach K makes us sweat out a very public flirtation with the NBA ... not looking forward to going through that again.


But that's once twice. K's going to be pushing 70 next year like Brodhead so I don't really see it even coming up. I'd be more concerned about HIS eventually retirement.

[BandAlum83]

Condoleezza Rice.

Why would coach K want Condoleezza Rice?




See what I did there? You had no quote that you were responding to and it came right after a post with a question about coach k ;)

[TKG]

Why would coach K want Condoleezza Rice?




See what I did there? You had no quote that you were responding to and it came right after a post with a question about coach k ;)

To comment #1: West Coast recruiting
To comment #2: The mind reels, well, mind does anyway. ��

[OldPhiKap]

Why would coach K want Condoleezza Rice?



She is a clear communicator, for one.

[BigWayne]

Haven't been a big fan of Brodhead since the spring of 2006 (no need to recount the reasons for my distaste) ... so I can't say I'm sorry to see him, leave.



Yep, I had a smile cross my face when I saw the email from dear old Dick.

[devildeac]

Why would coach K want Condoleezza Rice?




See what I did there? You had no quote that you were responding to and it came right after a post with a question about coach k ;)

Well, I "think" she was a proponent for a strong national defense...

[Tripping William]

Well, I "think" she was a proponent for a strong national defense...

Man-to-man? Or zone?

[jacone21]

Well, I "think" she was a proponent for a strong national defense...

Yeah, but it was zone defense.



ETA: Dang! Ninja'd!

[weezie]

OK, sheesh, I'll do it...

Those are some sweet seats the President gets inside Cameron.

Who wants to sit with me?

[devildeac]

Man-to-man? Or zone?

She adapted it to the personnel she had on her team. ;)

[Native]

OK, sheesh, I'll do it...

Those are some sweet seats the President gets inside Cameron.

Who wants to sit with me?

Too late. I'm making moves. ;)

[-jk]

OK, sheesh, I'll do it...

Those are some sweet seats the President gets inside Cameron.

Who wants to sit with me?

Wrong side of the aisle, though... (And the Blue Devil stinks to high heaven every time he's passed up!)

-jk

[Tripping William]

She adapted it to the personnel she had on her team. ;)

Did I say m2m? I meant WMD. Oh, sorry, that's PPB. ([redacted-wanker] acronyms!)

[blazindw]

Brodhead was born April 17, 1947 and will be 70 at the end of the next academic year, his date of departure. This all makes sense.

I saw Dick Brodhead at the Duke Forward event in DC last night, and he was highly animated -- much more even than usual -- and I had seen him at a similar event back in Denver a few months ago. Hmmm,... I said to myself, what's going on? Well, we found out today.

I too was at Duke Forward last night here and he was really animated, cracking jokes. Later on to myself, I thought that some of the jokes were from a man who knew he was in his last years once the Duke Forward campaign is complete (They are this close to meeting the $3.25B goal over a year ahead of schedule). The news today came as a shock to me, but then thinking about the jokes, they all of a sudden made a world of sense.

Count me firmly in the camp that loves President Brodhead. Though he wasn't at Duke when I was a student (he was announced as Nan's replacement during my senior year), I consider him my president. I'll be sad to see him go, but I'll forever be grateful for all he has done for our incredible university.

[diablesseblu]

Condoleezza Rice.

Not in this lifetime. I know her. She's a good person and very bright. That said, despite her accomplishments, she's quite personally insecure.

She "serviced" GWB because she felt she owed his father. Stanford's Hoover Institute is a great, safe "landing place" for her.

Forget any opinion you may have about Brodhead. CR lacks the "stones" to manage Duke.

[Dukehky]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh See ya.

[OldPhiKap]

Not in this lifetime. I know her. She's a good person and very bright. That said, despite her accomplishments, she's quite personally insecure.

She "serviced" GWB because she felt she owed his father. Stanford's Hoover Institute is a great, safe "landing place" for her.

Forget any opinion you may have about Brodhead. CR lacks the "stones" to manage Duke.

Condy is a member of the National.

Good enough for me.

[diablesseblu]

Condy is a member of the National.

Good enough for me.

Oh, I love this. LOL. Surely, you jest. (OPK, I have great faith faith in you and hope you're being facetious.)

Yep. She and Darla Moore...the first female members there. And, Ms. Moore's claim to fame is that she's marginally successful on her own. The "hook" she had to gain Augusta membership is her marriage to Richard Rainwater.

Again, I respect Ms. Rice but her "place" in our culture is largely a construct.

[OldPhiKap]

Oh, I love this. LOL. Surely, you jest. (OPK, I have great faith faith in you and hope you're being facetious.)

Yep. She and Darla Moore...the first female members there. And, Ms. Moore's claim to fame is that she's marginally successful on her own. The "hook" she had to gain Augusta membership is her marriage to Richard Rainwater.

Again, I respect Ms. Rice but her "place" in our culture is largely a construct.

Hey, I don't care how she got the gig. I just want to play the course again!

[diablesseblu]

Hey, I don't care how she got the gig. I just want to play the course again!


OK. I bow down. So admire, and am jealous of, that you got to play the course ONCE!!!

[77devil]

Hey, I don't care how she got the gig. I just want to play the course again!

But have you played Pine Valley?

[OldPhiKap]

But have you played Pine Valley?

Have nor.

Augusta National
Pebble Beach
Kiawah
TPC Sawgrass

Then gave up the game because, after 30 years, I was worse than I was as a teenager.

[msdukie]

Brodhead will retire on June 30, 2017, when his term ends.

The DukeForward campaign ends on June 30, 2017.

If you didn't know that Brodhead would retire on June 30, 2017 or otherwise announce on June 30, 2017 that he would retire on June 30, 2018, then you haven't paid attention to how university presidencies and capital campaigns work. When DukeForward went public, this was a done deal and pretty much the least surprising news possible.

With 14 months left, DukeForward has raised $3.15M of the $3.25M and has always expected to exceed this number. The additional funds will be used for financial aid.

Nan left in 2004 after The Campaign for Duke wrapped up.

Spoiler alert, Duke will likely have a bigger capital campaign in the 2020s and when it wraps, the then-president will stand down.

[Mike Corey]

A lot of change will be coming to Duke between now and 2020, no doubt about it.

As for Condi Rice, she's made it very clear her aspiration is to preside over Stanford. Many other schools have offered her the world, but she just wants to take over in Palo Alto. I have absolutely no idea whether or not that's a realistic goal.

As to whom Duke will pick to take over, I can only say with confidence it will not be Tallman Trask.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

A lot of change will be coming to Duke between now and 2020, no doubt about it.

As for Condi Rice, she's made it very clear her aspiration is to preside over Stanford. Many other schools have offered her the world, but she just wants to take over in Palo Alto. I have absolutely no idea whether or not that's a realistic goal.

As to whom Duke will pick to take over, I can only say with confidence it will not be Tallman Trask.

Hear! Hear!

[gep]

I recall something about 10 years. When Nan became President, she said something to the effect that 10 years is the optimum span for a President of a major university. Either you raise money during that time, or you don't. I also recall the small, private high school that my kids went to. The president search committee that I was on... someone, I forget who, said that the first priority of a president of a school is fund-raising... and that 10 years was the "right" period. Either he succeeds, or not. So, I was looking for an end to President Brodhead, not because I didn't think he did a good job, but because he passed 10 years. Pleasantly see that he's been real successful in fund-raising. Maybe it really is time...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Shane Battier for president!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Happy to see Brodhead leave. Attending Duke during the Lacrosse Scandal really left a bad taste in my mouth with regards to the top decision-makers at Duke.

That said, Brodhead did bring one really important thing with him that he learned from President Levin: raise 'em dollars. Brodhead is, IMO, the greatest fundraiser in Duke history. If I'm not mistaken, he nearly tripled our endowment.

Looking forward to the next era and President. I wouldn't mind poaching someone from Harvard, Texas, or Yale (ie the three universities with the largest endowments).

[sagegrouse]

Happy to see Brodhead leave. Attending Duke during the Lacrosse Scandal really left a bad taste in my mouth with regards to the top decision-makers at Duke.

That said, Brodhead did bring one really important thing with him that he learned from President Levin: raise 'em dollars. Brodhead is, IMO, the greatest fundraiser in Duke history. If I'm not mistaken, he nearly tripled our endowment.

Looking forward to the next era and President. I wouldn't mind poaching someone from Harvard, Texas, or Yale (ie the three universities with the largest endowments).

Well, William Preston Few did pretty well back in the day. He made friends with a guy named J.B. Duke.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

For all of the billions Brodhead and his predecessors raised, tuition continues to grow at a rate much faster than inflation. I know that this is no different than our peer schools, but at some point, this has to stop. It would be nice that if the big donations were targeted towards the core mission of the university, as there are many of us out there who make too much to get financial aid but have to think long and hard about sentencing ourselves to a much later retirement to send our kids to our beloved alma mater vs. choosing a much less expensive option. I personally think this is a much better use of the endowment than another "Center for Excellence" or rock climbing wall.

[OldPhiKap]

For all of the billions Brodhead and his predecessors raised, tuition continues to grow at a rate much faster than inflation. I know that this is no different than our peer schools, but at some point, this has to stop. It would be nice that if the big donations were targeted towards the core mission of the university, as there are many of us out there who make too much to get financial aid but have to think long and hard about sentencing ourselves to a much later retirement to send our kids to our beloved alma mater vs. choosing a much less expensive option. I personally think this is a much better use of the endowment than another "Center for Excellence" or rock climbing wall.

This.

As for Broadhead, I am sure he did a lot of great things. The lacrosse hoax will always be the first thing that comes to my mind when his name comes up. Probably not fair, but there it is.

[johnb]

Money raising is indeed crucial, partly because it's not a trait that would inevitably be found in people who have the credentials to become a university president. Charismatic leaders can inflame the board, while some board leaders like the president to be an outspoken, public person. There are situations where the leader needs to be more of a steward than a fundraiser, while he can sometimes be symbolic of the school's aspirations. Brodhead was the latter, to some extent, in that he had been dean of arguably the most rigorous undergraduate campus in the country, and Duke aspired to be more like Yale. Change leads to tension. If I'd been Brodhead, I'd have known my mandate was significantly to "make Duke more like Yale," which would make it awkward when the most powerful person on campus is getting courted by the Lakers and then a sports team is indicted by a DA who's confidently announcing that he has evidence of their guilt. He'd have known that he needed to pay proper respect to Duke's legacy while also being true to both himself and the presumed board expectations. I thought he's handled things well, all things considered.

Types of presidents reminded me of the work of an old Duke prof, James David Barber. The following summary of the 4 types of US presidents was lifted from his wikipedia site:

Traits of an active-positive president include: a readiness to act, high optimism, and an overall fondness of the presidency. Some examples of presidents Barber cites as active-positive include Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, John F. Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, and Gerald Ford.
Traits of a passive-positive president include: a low self-esteem compensated by an ingratiating personality, superficially optimistic, and a desire to please. Examples of passive-positive presidents include William Howard Taft, Ronald Reagan, and Warren G. Harding.
Traits of an active-negative president include: lack of deriving joy after expending much effort on tasks, aggressive, highly rigid, and having a general view of power as a means to self-realization. Examples of active-negative presidents include Woodrow Wilson, Herbert Hoover, and Richard Nixon.
Traits of a passive-negative president include: a strong sense of duty, desire to avoid power, low self-esteem compensated by service towards others, and an overall aversion to intense political negotiation. Presidential examples include Calvin Coolidge and Dwight D. Eisenhower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_David_Barber

[sagegrouse]

For all of the billions Brodhead and his predecessors raised, tuition continues to grow at a rate much faster than inflation. I know that this is no different than our peer schools, but at some point, this has to stop. It would be nice that if the big donations were targeted towards the core mission of the university, as there are many of us out there who make too much to get financial aid but have to think long and hard about sentencing ourselves to a much later retirement to send our kids to our beloved alma mater vs. choosing a much less expensive option. I personally think this is a much better use of the endowment than another "Center for Excellence" or rock climbing wall.

I agree with you totally: "at some point this has to stop." All private colleges seem to charge the same thing, with the less prestigious then rebating tuition to outstanding applicants unable to pay and using the tuition of those paying full cost as a funding source. While Duke and the Ivies also fund those unable to pay full price, they use scholarships funds -- not other students' tuition payments -- to finance those needing financial aid.

[budwom]

Without getting into contentious assessments of the man, I had a very long conversation some time ago with a prominent member of
the Board of Trustees who gave Dick major credit for the decision to (finally) upgrade Duke football.....Nan was completely disinterested in
football, Dick is a big fan....so for that I am most thankful.

[rocketeli]

A lot of change will be coming to Duke between now and 2020, no doubt about it.

As for Condi Rice, she's made it very clear her aspiration is to preside over Stanford. Many other schools have offered her the world, but she just wants to take over in Palo Alto. I have absolutely no idea whether or not that's a realistic goal.

As to whom Duke will pick to take over, I can only say with confidence it will not be Tallman Trask.

I've heard Condi Rice has a good mid-range jumper, runs the floor well and has a high basketball IQ and motor so maybe we should keep her on the list for 2017 if we have enough scholarships.

They'll never be another Uncle Terry.

[stillcrazie]

I always enjoyed hearing Brodhead speak. He conveyed intelligence and warmth and was quite personable. I will be sorry to see him go.

[Wander]

I always liked Brodhead. Without reopening the debate, I don't think he handled the lacrosse stuff nearly as poorly as many people think.

But probably the more important point is that it's a bit silly to judge a university president primarily by their relationship to sports programs (though I recognize that's going to be the most talked-about aspect on a sports message board).

[DukieInKansas]

Happy to see Brodhead leave. Attending Duke during the Lacrosse Scandal really left a bad taste in my mouth with regards to the top decision-makers at Duke.

That said, Brodhead did bring one really important thing with him that he learned from President Levin: raise 'em dollars. Brodhead is, IMO, the greatest fundraiser in Duke history. If I'm not mistaken, he nearly tripled our endowment.

Looking forward to the next era and President. I wouldn't mind poaching someone from Harvard, Texas, or Yale (ie the three universities with the largest endowments).

We tried someone from Yale with mixed opinions on his tenure. Can we skip Yale this time? ;)

[Indoor66]

Money raising is indeed crucial, partly because it's not a trait that would inevitably be found in people who have the credentials to become a university president. Charismatic leaders can inflame the board, while some board leaders like the president to be an outspoken, public person. There are situations where the leader needs to be more of a steward than a fundraiser, while he can sometimes be symbolic of the school's aspirations. Brodhead was the latter, to some extent, in that he had been dean of arguably the most rigorous undergraduate campus in the country, and Duke aspired to be more like Yale. Change leads to tension. If I'd been Brodhead, I'd have known my mandate was significantly to "make Duke more like Yale," which would make it awkward when the most powerful person on campus is getting courted by the Lakers and then a sports team is indicted by a DA who's confidently announcing that he has evidence of their guilt. He'd have known that he needed to pay proper respect to Duke's legacy while also being true to both himself and the presumed board expectations. I thought he's handled things well, all things considered.

Types of presidents reminded me of the work of an old Duke prof, James David Barber. The following summary of the 4 types of US presidents was lifted from his wikipedia site:

Traits of an active-positive president include: a readiness to act, high optimism, and an overall fondness of the presidency. Some examples of presidents Barber cites as active-positive include Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, John F. Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, and Gerald Ford.
Traits of a passive-positive president include: a low self-esteem compensated by an ingratiating personality, superficially optimistic, and a desire to please. Examples of passive-positive presidents include William Howard Taft, Ronald Reagan, and Warren G. Harding.
Traits of an active-negative president include: lack of deriving joy after expending much effort on tasks, aggressive, highly rigid, and having a general view of power as a means to self-realization. Examples of active-negative presidents include Woodrow Wilson, Herbert Hoover, and Richard Nixon.
Traits of a passive-negative president include: a strong sense of duty, desire to avoid power, low self-esteem compensated by service towards others, and an overall aversion to intense political negotiation. Presidential examples include Calvin Coolidge and Dwight D. Eisenhower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_David_Barber

And David Barber was wrong about as often as he was right - like most of us.

[DukieInKansas]

I always liked Brodhead. Without reopening the debate, I don't think he handled the lacrosse stuff nearly as poorly as many people think.

But probably the more important point is that it's a bit silly to judge a university president by their relationship to sports programs (though I recognize that's going to be the most talked-about aspect on a sports message board).

Yes, 2006 involved a sports team but, more importantly, it involved Duke students. At the time it happened, I thought a few well chosen words could have made a big difference - a simple "the university is cooperating with authorities but, as with all allegations, our students are innocent until proven guilty and they should be treated as such". He was the English major so he could word that a bit better than I did but that is the gist of what should have been said rather than "what they did is bad enough".

And, I totally agree with those above that talk about using the funds raised to keep tuition down.

Moderators - feel free to delete this post if it goes too far.

[budwom]

For all of the billions Brodhead and his predecessors raised, tuition continues to grow at a rate much faster than inflation. I know that this is no different than our peer schools, but at some point, this has to stop. It would be nice that if the big donations were targeted towards the core mission of the university, as there are many of us out there who make too much to get financial aid but have to think long and hard about sentencing ourselves to a much later retirement to send our kids to our beloved alma mater vs. choosing a much less expensive option. I personally think this is a much better use of the endowment than another "Center for Excellence" or rock climbing wall.

A year or so ago I ran the numbers on tuition, wondering that the cost would be today if the annual increases were the same as the inflation rate (from my graduation date, when tuition, room and board
amounted to only $3k or so). The answer was basically half the current cost....so I concur completely, there all kinds of bad consequences of ludicrously high tuition.

The consequences can already be seen at a number of schools less prestigious than Duke where they're having trouble filling their classes...regrettably, the top schools can probably
continue on this unfortunate path for quite some time...

[cspan37421]

All private colleges seem to charge the same thing, with the less prestigious then rebating tuition to outstanding applicants unable to pay and using the tuition of those paying full cost as a funding source. While Duke and the Ivies also fund those unable to pay full price, they use scholarships funds -- not other students' tuition payments -- to finance those needing financial aid.

I've noticed this too. Isn't it curious how most private schools, with wildly different endowments, all seem to have list prices within about 10% of each other? And if you make too much, you pay list or go elsewhere.

It really is a Robin Hood level of social engineering, and although matriculation choices are voluntary, social forces are incredibly strong and have kept the moneyed and accepted paying exorbitant amounts for college - the perception of signaling value ("Me? I went to Duke.") is very, very high. I question the paycheck reality, though. Depends on career, I suppose, but I think the cream tends to rise to the top over time, regardless of where they attended college. It's very tricky to disentangle correlation and causation here, though.

It will continue so long as Duke can find qualified wealthy applicants to balance the costs of the qualified applicants who cannot afford to attend.

If Brodhead's only job was to raise funds, I suppose from what I hear he was a clear success. However, I do not view that as his only job, and my opinion of his tenure is considerably dimmer.

[53n206]

As regards the very high endowment of the University of Texas, do you know of any source of enormous oil income that might be available for Duke? It is my understanding that income from royalties is a major source of the Texas endowment. If so, endowment income may have been down in the last year or so.

[BigWayne]

I always liked Brodhead. Without reopening the debate, I don't think he handled the lacrosse stuff nearly as poorly as many people think.

But probably the more important point is that it's a bit silly to judge a university president primarily by their relationship to sports programs (though I recognize that's going to be the most talked-about aspect on a sports message board).

The fact that the fantastic lies were about a group of athletes is not the important part of Brodhead's involvement and why many rate him so poorly.

[Bluedog]

I've noticed the majority of students that were enrolled at Duke during Brodhead's presidency view him favorably, while a large contingent of alumni do not view him favorably at all. Shows to me the media coverage of Duke and Brodhead certainly brings the lacrosse case to the forefront of people's minds (and generally not in a favorable way), while those on campus put as much significance on other aspects that they experienced (and I think people on campus at the time generally view Brodheads actions during the lax fiasco more favorably due to the intense climate and pressure -- "was a lose-lose situation").

Just my observations. I personally liked the guy, but also think turning a new leaf is good and will bring people back into the fold who have been turned off. So, look forward to the new chapter of Duke's legacy but still thank Brodhead for his leadership and service.

[howardlander]

The fact that the fantastic lies were about a group of athletes is not the important part of Brodhead's involvement and why many rate him so poorly.

Well, there are other reasons to rate him poorly. The campus in China seems to me to have been a waste of money, though in the long run I may be proven wrong. I'm not convinced the medical school in Singapore was a good use of funds either. I also thought the letter he sent during the downturn about Duke having to reduce it's ambitions was poorly conceived.

On the plus side however, Duke has made a significant difference in downtown revitalization by renting space in the urban core for 2500 workers, and he has been successful raising funds for the University, not to mention the improvements in the Engineering school and physical plant he has overseen. So it will be left to a better university historian than me to judge him. I have to admit my personal reaction to his leaving was positive (probably mostly because of how he handled the lacrosse situation), but let's see who replaces him. It's not an easy job.

Howard

[BigWayne]

Well, there are other reasons to rate him poorly. The campus in China seems to me to have been a waste of money, though in the long run I may be proven wrong. I'm not convinced the medical school in Singapore was a good use of funds either. I also thought the letter he sent during the downturn about Duke having to reduce it's ambitions was poorly conceived.

On the plus side however, Duke has made a significant difference in downtown revitalization by renting space in the urban core for 2500 workers, and he has been successful raising funds for the University, not to mention the improvements in the Engineering school and physical plant he has overseen. So it will be left to a better university historian than me to judge him. I have to admit my personal reaction to his leaving was positive (probably mostly because of how he handled the lacrosse situation), but let's see who replaces him. It's not an easy job.

Howard

What is the status of the Kunshan thing? Is it still sucking money from Durham? Ever since the dukecheck.com guy died, I haven't seen any news on it.

[cspan37421]

I've noticed the majority of students that were enrolled at Duke during Brodhead's presidency view him favorably,

How can you know this? Did you do a statistically-valid sample?

I wonder whather flyingdutchdevil shares your view. By your profiles, it appears you were there at the same time.

It will be interesting to see if some of those who swore to withhold donation $ until Brodhead was gone will now return to donating, or whether that will depend on their feelings about his successor, or whether they have other criteria as well.

[cspan37421]

Well, there are other reasons to rate him poorly. The campus in China seems to me to have been a waste of money, though in the long run I may be proven wrong.

Howard

Right. By the looks of it, it's not always wise to simply mimic what worked at Yale and assume it'll work for Duke.

[duke09hms]

Happy to see Brodhead leave. Attending Duke during the Lacrosse Scandal really left a bad taste in my mouth with regards to the top decision-makers at Duke.

That said, Brodhead did bring one really important thing with him that he learned from President Levin: raise 'em dollars. Brodhead is, IMO, the greatest fundraiser in Duke history. If I'm not mistaken, he nearly tripled our endowment.

Looking forward to the next era and President. I wouldn't mind poaching someone from Harvard, Texas, or Yale (ie the three universities with the largest endowments).

Not really, fundraising is a relative measure, and he's done a good but not stellar job since we've been outpaced by several of our peers. We were at 3.8B in 2005 and are now at 7.3B for 2015.

These are examples of terrific fundraising from 2005-2015:
UVA: 3.2B to 7.5B
Notre Dame: 3.6B to 8.6B
Penn: 4.4B to 10.1B.
Northwestern: 4.2B to 10.2B.

These are places we have passed:
Emory: 4.3B to 6.7B
WashU: 4.3B to 6.8B
Cornell: 3.8B to 6.0B

So I'd say we're about middle of our pack. I remember Keohane being described as an amazing fundraiser herself, but I couldn't readily access the endowment figures for Duke and our relative peer group back to the 90s.

Like you, I'm also happy to see him leave having been class of '09, but who knows if his successor will do better. It's an incredibly tough job managing such a diverse group of constituents. Lacrosse and Duke Kunshan were handled terribly while Duke-NUS and the revitalization of Durham were handled terrifically.

[duke79]

A year or so ago I ran the numbers on tuition, wondering that the cost would be today if the annual increases were the same as the inflation rate (from my graduation date, when tuition, room and board
amounted to only $3k or so). The answer was basically half the current cost...so I concur completely, there all kinds of bad consequences of ludicrously high tuition.

The consequences can already be seen at a number of schools less prestigious than Duke where they're having trouble filling their classes...regrettably, the top schools can probably
continue on this unfortunate path for quite some time...

Yes, I have done exactly the same thing...from when I graduated from Duke in the late 70's. And you're right, using the approximate inflation numbers (the CPI, as reported by the government), the tuition, room and board today at most of the top private colleges and universities, if they had simply increased them at reported rate of inflation, would be about half of what they are currently - in the range of $30,000 to $35,000 per year. Instead, it costs approximately $65,000 per year at most of these schools. And, as the parent of a freshman at an elite private college, who did not qualify for any financial aid and did not receive any merit scholarships to this particular school, I can assure you that it is VERY painful to pay those costs. Plus, the published costs do not include books, spending money, clothes, transportation, miscellaneous BS fees the college charges, etc. I estimate the true cost to be in the $80,000 per year range - and this is after tax money. So for someone in the 35 to 40% federal and state income tax brackets, you need to earn approximately $130,000 to $140,000 (gross) to pay for it (unless you have saved some monies).

It's interesting because I once asked a friend of mine who was the chief financial officer of a college in Boston about why the college costs have been increasing at a much faster rate than the "inflation rate". He said..."are you kidding me"? He then went on to say that the costs they incur were increasing at a much faster rate than the CPI rate - the cost of energy (this was when the cost of oil was increasing dramatically) to heat and cool the buildings, the cost of health insurance for all of the employees, the cost to maintain the campus, the salary costs for the employees and everything else they had to pay every year. He said they were struggling to balance the budget every year without raising the tuition even more!

[kexman]

A lot of change will be coming to Duke between now and 2020, no doubt about it.

As for Condi Rice, she's made it very clear her aspiration is to preside over Stanford. Many other schools have offered her the world, but she just wants to take over in Palo Alto. I have absolutely no idea whether or not that's a realistic goal.


Stanford just named Marc Tessier-Lavigne as its next president. He was previously chief scientific officer at Genentech and is currently president of Rockefeller University and a co-founder of Denali Therapeutics.

[Dukehky]

Broadhead was a successful, fundraising president because he was an absolute puppet for the trustees, some of the greatest business minds the country. I'm much more willing to give David Rubenstein and the late Aubrey McClendon, Bill Hawkins, etc. more of the credit for bringing in more money.

[kexman]

Stanford just named Marc Tessier-Lavigne as its next president. He was previously chief scientific officer at Genentech and is currently president of Rockefeller University and a co-founder of Denali Therapeutics.

To state the obvious it helps if you have some REALLY rich alumni/friends to help with fundraising. Just in the past year UCSF has raised over 500 MILLION just for neuroscience research.

Joan and Sandy Weill gave 185 million (they also have given cornell 600 million in the past)
Chuck Feeney gave 177 million

several others gave 20-50 million….this is just for neuro research.


Long-term I would think Stanford is well suited to cash in on some of the great tech company billionaires.

[duke74]

It's interesting because I once asked a friend of mine who was the chief financial officer of a college in Boston about why the college costs have been increasing at a much faster rate than the "inflation rate". He said..."are you kidding me"? He then went on to say that the costs they incur were increasing at a much faster rate than the CPI rate - the cost of energy (this was when the cost of oil was increasing dramatically) to heat and cool the buildings, the cost of health insurance for all of the employees, the cost to maintain the campus, the salary costs for the employees and everything else they had to pay every year. He said they were struggling to balance the budget every year without raising the tuition even more!

When I read the original post, this was the first thing that hit me. I'm not sure that the CPI is the correct benchmark for the analysis. I used to get the same logic thrown back at me when negotiating fees with clients while a Big 4 audit partner (using inflation rates to negotiate audit fees) The CPI is not an indication of the costs of most firms, companies or universities, especially if significant professional compensation costs exist.

I am not disputing the argument that tuition for the "top" schools seems to be price inelastic, but just noting that a CPI-based calculation may not be making the most cogent argument.

[Wander]

I've noticed the majority of students that were enrolled at Duke during Brodhead's presidency view him favorably, while a large contingent of alumni do not view him favorably at all. Shows to me the media coverage of Duke and Brodhead certainly brings the lacrosse case to the forefront of people's minds (and generally not in a favorable way), while those on campus put as much significance on other aspects that they experienced (and I think people on campus at the time generally view Brodheads actions during the lax fiasco more favorably due to the intense climate and pressure -- "was a lose-lose situation").


Good observation. There are no scientific surveys I'm aware of, but as someone who was on campus, I get that feeling too. I did find this link (http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/243521-research-reveals-impact-of-lax-scandal-on-duke.html) which states that less than 20% of alumni thought Brodhead "moved too swiftly in canceling the lacrosse season," which may imply that even among people not on campus at the time, this may be a classic case of the angriest people being the loudest.

But again, way to much emphasis on this one story in evaluating Brodhead.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Yes, I have done exactly the same thing...from when I graduated from Duke in the late 70's. And you're right, using the approximate inflation numbers (the CPI, as reported by the government), the tuition, room and board today at most of the top private colleges and universities, if they had simply increased them at reported rate of inflation, would be about half of what they are currently - in the range of $30,000 to $35,000 per year. Instead, it costs approximately $65,000 per year at most of these schools. And, as the parent of a freshman at an elite private college, who did not qualify for any financial aid and did not receive any merit scholarships to this particular school, I can assure you that it is VERY painful to pay those costs. Plus, the published costs do not include books, spending money, clothes, transportation, miscellaneous BS fees the college charges, etc. I estimate the true cost to be in the $80,000 per year range - and this is after tax money. So for someone in the 35 to 40% federal and state income tax brackets, you need to earn approximately $130,000 to $140,000 (gross) to pay for it (unless you have saved some monies).

It's interesting because I once asked a friend of mine who was the chief financial officer of a college in Boston about why the college costs have been increasing at a much faster rate than the "inflation rate". He said..."are you kidding me"? He then went on to say that the costs they incur were increasing at a much faster rate than the CPI rate - the cost of energy (this was when the cost of oil was increasing dramatically) to heat and cool the buildings, the cost of health insurance for all of the employees, the cost to maintain the campus, the salary costs for the employees and everything else they had to pay every year. He said they were struggling to balance the budget every year without raising the tuition even more!

You prove my point perfectly. You sound like a typical Duke alum - comfortably middle class. You don't qualify for financial aid, but paying full freight at a private school is very challenging. As I've noted before, there is going to gradually be a barbell effect where the very rich will be able to attend because money is no object for them, and the very poor can attend schools that are generous with grants as they effectively aren't paying for it either. It is those of us in the middle (and the middle likely extends to the top few percentiles of earners nationally if you live in a more expensive location) for whom private universities, such as our dear alma mater, is growing out of reach.

There have been some calls to require private universities to spend more of their endowments, mainly in light of their tax-exempt borrowing status. Any well run private university bonds for any and all projects at low tax-exempt rates rather than draw down the endowment to pay for them. The average private school currently draws down about 4.5% of its endowment for operations. If this was increased by 1%, most years earnings would still outpace draws and if this money was applied to undergrad tuition, it could be lowered by over $10k per student ($7.3b endowment x 1% = $73m divided by 6,500 undergrads).

But ultimately, it comes down to supply and demand - applications grow every year despite the costs, so clearly there is someone who is willing to pay it - they could like grow tuition at twice the current rate and still do fine. For weaker academic private schools, people are now really starting to ask what they are paying so much for, but I think Duke is a long way from getting to that point.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Not in this lifetime. I know her. She's a good person and very bright. That said, despite her accomplishments, she's quite personally insecure.

She "serviced" GWB because she felt she owed his father. Stanford's Hoover Institute is a great, safe "landing place" for her.

Forget any opinion you may have about Brodhead. CR lacks the "stones" to manage Duke.

While I do not know Condi my opinion of her is exactly the same as yours.

From afar it seems to me that Brodhead did many things very well and those were the reasons he was hired. Crisis managment is not his strength.

How about Coach K for President? He can surely raise lots of money. Could even help his successor. I know we want him to coach bball forever but thats a dream. Maybe after the Olympics he can both jobs.

SoCal

[sagegrouse]

I
It will continue so long as Duke can find qualified wealthy applicants to balance the costs of the qualified applicants who cannot afford to attend.


Cspan, I made the opposite point. Less wealthy schools cross-subsidize tuition from those paying the full bill. Wealthy schools like Duke spend the money on instruction and other things and have scholarship funds available for needy students (like I was).

[duke79]

You prove my point perfectly. You sound like a typical Duke alum - comfortably middle class. You don't qualify for financial aid, but paying full freight at a private school is very challenging. As I've noted before, there is going to gradually be a barbell effect where the very rich will be able to attend because money is no object for them, and the very poor can attend schools that are generous with grants as they effectively aren't paying for it either. It is those of us in the middle (and the middle likely extends to the top few percentiles of earners nationally if you live in a more expensive location) for whom private universities, such as our dear alma mater, is growing out of reach.

There have been some calls to require private universities to spend more of their endowments, mainly in light of their tax-exempt borrowing status. Any well run private university bonds for any and all projects at low tax-exempt rates rather than draw down the endowment to pay for them. The average private school currently draws down about 4.5% of its endowment for operations. If this was increased by 1%, most years earnings would still outpace draws and if this money was applied to undergrad tuition, it could be lowered by over $10k per student ($7.3b endowment x 1% = $73m divided by 6,500 undergrads).

But ultimately, it comes down to supply and demand - applications grow every year despite the costs, so clearly there is someone who is willing to pay it - they could like grow tuition at twice the current rate and still do fine. For weaker academic private schools, people are now really starting to ask what they are paying so much for, but I think Duke is a long way from getting to that point.

Yea.....you're right about this. We're lucky in that we have only one child and we were able to save enough (in a 529 plan) for about three years of private college costs (we underestimated how much the costs would increase! UGH) but the fourth year will be painful (no vacations or new cars for the next four years!). I shouldn't complain, though, as we're better off than a sizable percentage of our population (in terms of income) but we live in an expensive part of the country and federal and state income taxes take a huge chunk of our gross income every year, so $80,000 in college costs on top of everything else IS painful!

I think you're also right that it does come down to supply and demand. Why should the top colleges and universities slow down or stop increasing their costs when applications continue to increase. Who wouldn't want to run a business where you could raise prices every year and demand for your product never goes down? My guess is that, if the opposite happened - i.e., applications began to plummet - all of these schools would quickly figure out how to cut costs and hold the line on price increases, but we're not at that point yet (at least for the top schools. It is interesting, though, because I see ads on a local TV station for a college near us (probably a "third-tier" school) that has substantially lowered their tuition to entice more applications and interest. I have no idea if this plan will work).

I think we will begin to see the "barbell" effect where the affluent and rich will be able to send their kids to the top schools and those at the lower end of the income scale will qualify for almost a free ride (partly subsidized by the affluent and rich) and the great percentage in the middle will have an increasingly hard time in paying for college for their kids. I'm not sure how this will play out for society......but I'm guessing the results will not be good.

[sagegrouse]

Not really, fundraising is a relative measure, and he's done a good but not stellar job since we've been outpaced by several of our peers. We were at 3.8B in 2005 and are now at 7.3B for 2015.

These are examples of terrific fundraising from 2005-2015:
UVA: 3.2B to 7.5B
Notre Dame: 3.6B to 8.6B
Penn: 4.4B to 10.1B.
Northwestern: 4.2B to 10.2B.

These are places we have passed:
Emory: 4.3B to 6.7B
WashU: 4.3B to 6.8B
Cornell: 3.8B to 6.0B

So I'd say we're about middle of our pack. I remember Keohane being described as an amazing fundraiser herself, but I couldn't readily access the endowment figures for Duke and our relative peer group back to the 90s.

Like you, I'm also happy to see him leave having been class of '09, but who knows if his successor will do better. It's an incredibly tough job managing such a diverse group of constituents. Lacrosse and Duke Kunshan were handled terribly while Duke-NUS and the revitalization of Durham were handled terrifically.

There is also "The Duke Endowment" based in Charlotte, which was set up independently of Duke University. As a minimum, 32 percent of the income from the endowment goes to Duke University and IIRC it is usually closes to 50 percent. The size of the Duke Endowment (as opposed to the Duke University Endowment) was $3.4 billion at the end of 2014. Therefore, our total endowment is closer to $9 billion.

[sagegrouse]

Broadhead was a successful, fundraising president because he was an absolute puppet for the trustees, some of the greatest business minds the country. I'm much more willing to give David Rubenstein and the late Aubrey McClendon, Bill Hawkins, etc. more of the credit for bringing in more money.

I have idea what this means -- "puppet for the trustees" -- even the most devoted trustee spends only a few days a year on Duke U. matters. It's president's job to lead fund-raising; moreover, the faculty tends to believe that that is the only mission of a university president, and by all means, stay out of academics and curriculum and research directions.

[duke79]

When I read the original post, this was the first thing that hit me. I'm not sure that the CPI is the correct benchmark for the analysis. I used to get the same logic thrown back at me when negotiating fees with clients while a Big 4 audit partner (using inflation rates to negotiate audit fees) The CPI is not an indication of the costs of most firms, companies or universities, especially if significant professional compensation costs exist.

I am not disputing the argument that tuition for the "top" schools seems to be price inelastic, but just noting that a CPI-based calculation may not be making the most cogent argument.

This was exactly my friend's point. The CPI is an arbitrary number based (I believe) on a basket of goods that the federal govt. believes the average family consumes on a regular basis. Many economists have questioned the make-up of the basket and how it is calculated. I'm sure that colleges would argue that their costs have risen much faster than the CPI, hence why they have raised tuition, room and board much faster. And it may be true. I'm skeptical of the CPI numbers for my own living costs.

[duke79]

I know the announcement of his leaving the Presidency said he planned to take a year's sabbatical and then return to teaching and research and writing. Does he plan to return to Duke to teach and write or will he go elsewhere, like Nan? This wasn't clear to me in the announcement?

[budwom]

Not really, fundraising is a relative measure, and he's done a good but not stellar job since we've been outpaced by several of our peers. We were at 3.8B in 2005 and are now at 7.3B for 2015.

These are examples of terrific fundraising from 2005-2015:
UVA: 3.2B to 7.5B
Notre Dame: 3.6B to 8.6B
Penn: 4.4B to 10.1B.
Northwestern: 4.2B to 10.2B.

These are places we have passed:
Emory: 4.3B to 6.7B
WashU: 4.3B to 6.8B
Cornell: 3.8B to 6.0B

So I'd say we're about middle of our pack. I remember Keohane being described as an amazing fundraiser herself, but I couldn't readily access the endowment figures for Duke and our relative peer group back to the 90s.

Like you, I'm also happy to see him leave having been class of '09, but who knows if his successor will do better. It's an incredibly tough job managing such a diverse group of constituents. Lacrosse and Duke Kunshan were handled terribly while Duke-NUS and the revitalization of Durham were handled terrifically.

Well, you're actually confusing two different issues. There's fundraising, and then there's endowment growth.
For example in the current Duke Forward ($3.25 billion) fundraising campaign, only roughly one third of the money is slated for the endowment (per Duke).
When you show your example of endowment growth over the past ten years or whatever, that is much more a function of the work of DUMAC, the group that
manages the endowment fund, and the returns they generate..... vs the groups that manage other schools' endowments.

[77devil]

A year or so ago I ran the numbers on tuition, wondering that the cost would be today if the annual increases were the same as the inflation rate (from my graduation date, when tuition, room and board
amounted to only $3k or so). The answer was basically half the current cost...so I concur completely, there all kinds of bad consequences of ludicrously high tuition.

The consequences can already be seen at a number of schools less prestigious than Duke where they're having trouble filling their classes...regrettably, the top schools can probably
continue on this unfortunate path for quite some time...

In addition, some elite liberal arts colleges, while still highly selective, are no longer need blind.

[77devil]

I think we will begin to see the "barbell" effect where the affluent and rich will be able to send their kids to the top schools and those at the lower end of the income scale will qualify for almost a free ride (partly subsidized by the affluent and rich) and the great percentage in the middle will have an increasingly hard time in paying for college for their kids. I'm not sure how this will play out for society...but I'm guessing the results will not be good.

The barbell effect occurred many years ago at private colleges and universities.

[luvdahops]

The barbell effect occurred many years ago at private colleges and universities.

Agreed. At the risk of veering off into PPB territory, I believe the barbell effect has also been a major driver in the expansion of government-funded student loans, on the argument that the middle class was getting priced out of many colleges (and not just private ones).

[Indoor66]

Agreed. At the risk of veering off into PPB territory, I believe the barbell effect has also been a major driver in the expansion of government-funded student loans, on the argument that the middle class was getting priced out of many colleges (and not just private ones).

Some would argue that the reverse is true. Government money into higher education is a great driver of cost increase.

[77devil]

It's interesting because I once asked a friend of mine who was the chief financial officer of a college in Boston about why the college costs have been increasing at a much faster rate than the "inflation rate". He said..."are you kidding me"? He then went on to say that the costs they incur were increasing at a much faster rate than the CPI rate - the cost of energy (this was when the cost of oil was increasing dramatically) to heat and cool the buildings, the cost of health insurance for all of the employees, the cost to maintain the campus, the salary costs for the employees and everything else they had to pay every year. He said they were struggling to balance the budget every year without raising the tuition even more!

I hope you acquaintance was frank enough to acknowledge that plenty of the higher rate of increase in higher education is self induced and of questionable value to the core mission.

[cspan37421]

Some would argue that the reverse is true. Government money into higher education is a great driver of cost increase.

Not only some ... I'm pretty sure that's the conventional wisdom. Third party payers that foster inelastic demand ... same issue that crops up in health care.

[Henderson]

There are three times in my life when I stick by the phone: 1. When a new pope is being elected; 2. During the NBA draft; and 3. When Duke is looking for a new president.

In each case, my chances are slim. But the payoff would be so good that I don't want to miss the call.

[Indoor66]

There are three times in my life when I stick by the phone: 1. When a new pope is being elected; 2. During the NBA draft; and 3. When Duke is looking for a new president.

In each case, my chances are slim. But the payoff would be so good that I don't want to miss the call.

After seeing your posts over the past years, I think you are save in Sin City! :(:p;):cool:

[BigWayne]

Good observation. There are no scientific surveys I'm aware of, but as someone who was on campus, I get that feeling too. I did find this link (http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/243521-research-reveals-impact-of-lax-scandal-on-duke.html) which states that less than 20% of alumni thought Brodhead "moved too swiftly in canceling the lacrosse season," which may imply that even among people not on campus at the time, this may be a classic case of the angriest people being the loudest.

But again, way to much emphasis on this one story in evaluating Brodhead.

The link you posted is from September 2006. This is significant in that it was three months before Nifong was caught in his lies and brought up on charges by the NC Bar association. Any opinions formed in Sep. 2006 were likely to be revised once the full story came out later in 2006 and into 2007.

Just like the UNC scandal, most people were informed by what they see in the mainstream media, which was heavily slanted to support the actions of Brodhead and others against the lacrosse team. In both cases, the vast majority of people have bought the PR thrown out by the respective universities.

This is one of the major problems I have with Brodhead. He played to the loudest crowd and the majority media narrative when he had enough inside information to know that this narrative was at best loosely connected to the truth. He showed the content of his character then and has done nothing since then to show he wouldn't do exactly the same thing if presented with similar circumstances in the future.

I had discussions with a Duke person that reports to Brodhead in 2011. I asked them about the lacrosse scandal. All of their responses were PC BS deflecting any responsibility, sort of like what we hear out of Carol Folt these days on the UNC scandal.

[Indoor66]

The link you posted is from September 2006. This is significant in that it was three months before Nifong was caught in his lies and brought up on charges by the NC Bar association. Any opinions formed in Sep. 2006 were likely to be revised once the full story came out later in 2006 and into 2007.

Just like the UNC scandal, most people were informed by what they see in the mainstream media, which was heavily slanted to support the actions of Brodhead and others against the lacrosse team. In both cases, the vast majority of people have bought the PR thrown out by the respective universities.

This is one of the major problems I have with Brodhead. He played to the loudest crowd and the majority media narrative when he had enough inside information to know that this narrative was at best loosely connected to the truth. He showed the content of his character then and has done nothing since then to show he wouldn't do exactly the same thing if presented with similar circumstances in the future.

I had discussions with a Duke person that reports to Brodhead in 2011. I asked them about the lacrosse scandal. All of their responses were PC BS deflecting any responsibility, sort of like what we hear out of Carol Folt these days on the UNC scandal.

As I see it, he played to the situation that existed when he made his decisions. Later information revealed far different data than was available at the beginning. IMO the University had to take a position. Was it, ultimately, wrong - yes. Was Brodhead a bad guy or acting malevolently? No just in error. The LAX team had to live with its own history and reputation.

All in all there were no winners in that mess. I am glad is far in the background and I wish we could all put it to rest.

[Wander]

The link you posted is from September 2006. This is significant in that it was three months before Nifong was caught in his lies and brought up on charges by the NC Bar association. Any opinions formed in Sep. 2006 were likely to be revised once the full story came out later in 2006 and into 2007.


I'll try to keep this relevant to Brodhead only and not delve into other opinions of the scandal.

The fact that it is an early link is actually part of my point. It is extremely easy to say Brodhead should have acted differently, now that we know for an absolute fact that Nifong and the accuser were consistently lying. It is much more difficult to make that decision at the moment. Yes, I agree it would have been nice if Brodhead had said things a bit differently (which is why I always describe his reaction as "not horrible" as opposed to "good"), but I don't blame him for having some small basic faith that the prosecutor and police weren't completely corrupt, and I assume Brodhead also knew what the reputation of the LAX team was at the time (contrast to say, how Coach K leads the basketball program). Add in what Brodhead must have been calculating as the hypothetical scenario where he DID vigorously defend the team, and then it turned out it was all true, and I don't blame him too much for reacting the way he did. I've always found the blame on him better placed on the prosecutor, the police, the accuser, various Duke professors, various protest groups, and so on.

TL,DR: Hindsight is 20/20.

My last post on the subject because, again, I think too much weight is being placed on a sports thing in evaluating the president of one of the top research universities in the world.

[howardlander]

Well, you're actually confusing two different issues. There's fundraising, and then there's endowment growth.
For example in the current Duke Forward ($3.25 billion) fundraising campaign, only roughly one third of the money is slated for the endowment (per Duke).


What are they planning on doing with the other 2 billion? I can't believe they have that much construction in mind.

Howard

[howardlander]

What are they planning on doing with the other 2 billion? I can't believe they have that much construction in mind.

Howard

Huh, I found this: https://dukeforward.duke.edu/overview/by-the-numbers/ but I'm not sure I understand it.

[dukelifer]

What are they planning on doing with the other 2 billion? I can't believe they have that much construction in mind.

Howard

A good fraction of the money comes in the form of foundation or industry grants for research which would have come to Duke even without the campaign. That money is not fungible.

[sagegrouse]

This was exactly my friend's point. The CPI is an arbitrary number based (I believe) on a basket of goods that the federal govt. believes the average family consumes on a regular basis. Many economists have questioned the make-up of the basket and how it is calculated. I'm sure that colleges would argue that their costs have risen much faster than the CPI, hence why they have raised tuition, room and board much faster. And it may be true. I'm skeptical of the CPI numbers for my own living costs.

Yes, the college's costs have risen dramatically, but I would argue that the logic is reversed. Colleges are spending more money because the market conditions have allowed them to raise tuition drastically.

[AtlDuke72]

[QUOTE=Wander;884031]I'll try to keep this relevant to Brodhead only and not delve into other opinions of the scandal.

The fact that it is an early link is actually part of my point. It is extremely easy to say Brodhead should have acted differently, now that we know for an absolute fact that Nifong and the accuser were consistently lying. It is much more difficult to make that decision at the moment. Yes, I agree it would have been nice if Brodhead had said things a bit differently (which is why I always describe his reaction as "not horrible" as opposed to "good"), but I don't blame him for having some small basic faith that the prosecutor and police weren't completely corrupt, and I assume Brodhead also knew what the reputation of the LAX team was at the time (contrast to say, how Coach K leads the basketball program). Add in what Brodhead must have been calculating as the hypothetical scenario where he DID vigorously defend the team, and then it turned out it was all true, and I don't blame him too much for reacting the way he did. I've always found the blame on him better placed on the prosecutor, the police, the accuser, various Duke professors, various protest groups, and so on.

TL,DR: Hindsight is 20/20.

Brodhead threw those kids under the bus. He should have been shown the door immediately. Good riddance.

[diablesseblu]

Yes, the college's costs have risen dramatically, but I would argue that the logic is reversed. Colleges are spending more money because the market conditions have allowed them to raise tuition drastically.

Agree completely with this assessment. However, having retired from a major urban university, I could pontificate on that issue alone. That said, there are also other forces at work here.

Colleges are in an arms race re: what's available for students. I date myself, but when I arrived at dear alma mater, it was with one car of clothes and furnishings for me and my room. These kids come now with full U-Hauls and expect "country club" amenities.

For example, there's been a constant, continuing reassessment at Duke about food options. When you read the "Chronicle's" coverage of this aspect of student life, it seems as if the kids just cannot be satisfied. (I do sense that these "demands" come from a subset of the student body.)

Parents bear a responsibility in this (even though most won't admit it). Perching in the bar at the WaDuke, I had parents tell me that they're indulging all aspects of their kids college experience because they know/fear what's out there for them once they graduate.

These are truly complicated times for higher ed. The most heartening thing I've seen from the Brodhead era at Duke is the commitment to financial aid. When you look at successful "older" grads (when aid was not as complicated), as examples, you see Judy Woodruff, John Mack, and David Rubenstein. They have said they would not have enrolled had generous aid not been available.

Simply put, no easy answers. You couldn't pay me enough to work in higher ed administration these days.

[Reilly]

... I think too much weight is being placed on a sports thing ...

I believe those who are placing weight on this thing view it as a character thing, as a fundamental integrity thing, as a thing integral to leadership ... not as a sports thing ... and many saw it at the time, not in hindsight.

[msdukie]

I know the announcement of his leaving the Presidency said he planned to take a year's sabbatical and then return to teaching and research and writing. Does he plan to return to Duke to teach and write or will he go elsewhere, like Nan? This wasn't clear to me in the announcement?

He said he hasn't decided yet when he spoke to The Chronicle today.

[sagegrouse]

Colleges are in an arms race re: what's available for students. I date myself, but when I arrived at dear alma mater, it was with one car of clothes and furnishings for me and my room. These kids come now with full U-Hauls and expect "country club" amenities.



It's been that way a while, at least as far as "stuff." When I returned home after dropping my daughter off at Gilbert-Adams on East, the stuff that wouldn't fit in her room exceeded what I took to Duke as a freshman.

[budwom]

Huh, I found this: https://dukeforward.duke.edu/overview/by-the-numbers/ but I'm not sure I understand it.

Yeah, it's not the clearest breakdown, is it? Well, at least we know $100 million is going to Wallace Wade Stadium.
It really is amazing to see how vast the university has become....I'd love to see the stats on what percentage of the annual budget, or the capital budget, go
to undergraduate education as compared to 40 years ago. In the Duke Forward campaign, very close to $1 billion is going to the medical school (again, per Duke).

When I was an undergrad, if you walked from the chapel to the hospital thru the quad, you could walk thru the hospital in a few minutes
and emerge out the back side to a bunch of trees. Now there's an entire medical city out there.

[Henderson]

After seeing your posts over the past years, I think you are save in Sin City! :(:p;):cool:

...where we can spell.

[Olympic Fan]

I believe those who are placing weight on this thing view it as a character thing, as a fundamental integrity thing, as a thing integral to leadership ... not as a sports thing ... and many saw it at the time, not in hindsight.

Totally agree ... especially with the part that many saw it that was even as it was happening -- long before we even suspected what Nifong was doing -- I thought Brodhead behaved shamefully. And the fact that there was never any retribution against the profs and officials who led the lynch mob (in fact, several were promoted) still rankles.

So as far as Brodhead's departure goes ... go riddance.

[chris13]

As a Durham resident since 2005, when Brodhead's tenure begin, I have to give credit to Duke for playing a big part in the revitalization of Durham. I don't know if Brodhead championed it, but I do know that the decision to move portions of Duke's workforce off campus to American Tobacco and other locations downtown has really spurred development. I never thought I'd see the day when the primary concerns in downtown Durham would be gentrification and exploding property values. As someone who lives near East Campus, it's been great to see.

Also I'd give immense credit to Duke for buying the properties along Buchanan on the edge of East Campus from Guy Solie. The lacrosse house at 610 was razed and replaced with a brand new house that sold for almost $800K last summer. That seems like the perfect symbol for the past decade in Durham.

It's hard to imagine Duke or it's peers lowering or even freezing tuition unless applications fall. If I read the press release correctly, applications to Duke have doubled during Brodhead's tenure.

Has Duke ever picked someone from the medical center as President? For both Duke and UNC, the medical centers account for more than half of the employees, revenue, etc. I wonder if Duke will follow Stanford's lead and pick a medical scientist after two straight President's' with humanities background.

[luvdahops]

Yeah, it's not the clearest breakdown, is it? Well, at least we know $100 million is going to Wallace Wade Stadium.
It really is amazing to see how vast the university has become...I'd love to see the stats on what percentage of the annual budget, or the capital budget, go
to undergraduate education as compared to 40 years ago. In the Duke Forward campaign, very close to $1 billion is going to the medical school (again, per Duke).

When I was an undergrad, if you walked from the chapel to the hospital thru the quad, you could walk thru the hospital in a few minutes
and emerge out the back side to a bunch of trees. Now there's an entire medical city out there.

That sort of growth in the medical center is not at all unique to Duke; it is typical for virtually all major hospital systems these days. Flagship hospitals (and major medical schools) are quite often campuses in their own right.

As for spending on undergrads, as the father of a HS freshman and someone who has recently spent a fair amount of time at Duke and visited comparable schools (mainly Ivies), my impression - purely anecdotal, not data-based - is that Duke is actually spending a lot more proportionately on the undergrad experience. In the form of upgraded residential halls, more and better dining options, exercise and recreation facilities, and major enhancements to libraries and study areas within, etc. There is much more "new stuff" (to use a highly technical term) for Undergrads at Duke than on any other campus I've toured recently.

[sagegrouse]

Has Duke ever picked someone from the medical center as President? For both Duke and UNC, the medical centers account for more than half of the employees, revenue, etc. I wonder if Duke will follow Stanford's lead and pick a medical scientist after two straight President's' with humanities background.

Ah, ha! Let me answer! Let me answer! Our leader, J.D. King's, and also -jk's, grandfather was Dr. Deryl Hart, who became acting and then official president following the resignation of A. Hollis Edens in 1960. Dr. Hart was head of surgery at Duke medical school at the time. He lived in the house you can see from Wallace Wade stadium. That house became the residence of the Brodheads.

[77devil]

Has Duke ever picked someone from the medical center as President? For both Duke and UNC, the medical centers account for more than half of the employees, revenue, etc. I wonder if Duke will follow Stanford's lead and pick a medical scientist after two straight President's' with humanities background.

Keith Brodie, who proceeded Nan, came from the medical center. Most consider the success of his tenure to have been mixed.

[luvdahops]

Some would argue that the reverse is true. Government money into higher education is a great driver of cost increase.

No doubt. I think the effect, over time, has actually been symbiotic. In a negative way.

[budwom]

That sort of growth in the medical center is not at all unique to Duke; it is typical for virtually all major hospital systems these days. Flagship hospitals (and major medical schools) are quite often campuses in their own right.

As for spending on undergrads, as the father of a HS freshman and someone who has recently spent a fair amount of time at Duke and visited comparable schools (mainly Ivies), my impression - purely anecdotal, not data-based - is that Duke is actually spending a lot more proportionately on the undergrad experience. In the form of upgraded residential halls, more and better dining options, exercise and recreation facilities, and major enhancements to libraries and study areas within, etc. There is much more "new stuff" (to use a highly technical term) for Undergrads at Duke than on any other campus I've toured recently.

There is indeed something of an arms race going on today among schools, providing amenities to undergrads....as you say, fancier food, more exercise facilities. I've seen some amazing ones.
In some cases I think some of the most prestigious schools feel somewhat immune to this, but all in all even most schools (and top schools) are providing gobs of stuff.
Not at all unusual to walk across a campus these days and see a humongous glass walled building with dozens of students inside working away on what seems like
an endless array of exercise machines...

[Indoor66]

Keith Brodie, who proceeded Nan, came from the medical center. Most consider the success of his tenure to have been mixed.

Keith was perfect for the position. He was a psychiatrist. :)

[Thurber Whyte]

All of the discussion of fundraising illustrates my principal problem with Richard Brodhead. He is essentially a fundraising tool. He sounds and acts the way one would expect a university President to do. He has an Ivy League pedigree. He has a backstory as a sort of beloved Mr. Chips type figure at Yale. However, he has little to nothing in the way of administrative or leadership skill to offer. Talking to Yalie friends, they seem to think he was an odd choice to be a university president. He was the number three man at Yale and never would have been considered for the presidency there.

I had a front row seat for the Lacrosse Hoax so I can tell you what I saw. I was the spokesman for a group of alumni, parents and academics who wanted to help the University find its voice and defend both itself and its falsely accused students. That idea went out the window pretty quickly so we ended up advocating for justice for the students on our own and, unfortunately, that often meant confronting the actions of the Administration rather than working with it.

The problem with Brodhead was not his presence in the decision making, but his absence. The University’s response to the crisis was dictated by Bob Steel, the Chairman of the Board of Trustees. John Burness was his hatchet man. Brodhead was just there. How do I know this? Steel personally told me that he was in charge. I had written to President Brodhead seeking a meeting and Steel responded. From then on, Boss Steel, as we liked to call him, was the one with whom I negotiated. Steel was Brodhead’s greatest champion when he was hired and I wonder whether Brodhead’s weakness and malleability were among his attractions.

We can parse through Brodhead’s public statements on the hoax as it evolved. Some were helpful. Some were disparaging. If you understand the larger game that the Administration was playing, they fit a clear pattern. They were not off the cuff. They were carefully measured and timed and he certainly had help crafting them as part of the Administration’s message. The real problem was the much more aggressive and cynical disparagement of the players that took place behind the scenes with the media and others who might have helped them. I will avoid a blow by blow account. If you want details, PM me.

However, I will say that the Administration’s claim that it did not know all the facts, is self serving and utterly false. They had access to all of the evidence (while pretending not to) from the beginning. They certainly knew who Nifong was and what he was about. I made sure about that myself and I was hardly the only one.

Brodhead was a cipher to me during the hoax. Unfortunately, from what I later gathered, it seems that Brodhead was happy, if not grateful, to have Steel take the lead and was happy with the results.

In the end, Brodhead was the greatest disappointment to me among the various actors in the hoax. Nifong, Steel and Burness are who they are. Even if he is not a manager by nature, even if he is not a man of practical sense, I kept hoping that Brodhead would do something to show the benefit of all that erudition he so conspicuously displays and bring it to bear on the situation. I was hoping that a lifetime of immersing himself in great literature would have equipped him with a more humanist perspective, a better understanding of human nature and, at least, a more refined aesthetic, if not moral sense, that he could have used to influence the process. Instead, all gave us was a facility with empty platitudes.

One of the reasons discussion of the hoax tends to get contentious here and threads get shut down is that, in appraising the performance of the Administration, we seem to line along the lines of Kantian versus consequentialist ethics. That is a fascinating debate. Philosophers have not been able to resolve that debate and we were never going to do so here. Unfortunately, the Administration’s response was not guided by any system of ethics that I could discern and, indeed, moral arguments were particularly unwelcome by them. Instead, looking back ten years later, I invite all of you to consider the Administration’s response in light of what we have seen with scandals or controversies at other universities, particularly the one down the road: how public relations becomes and end in and of itself. The one guiding principal is always “What makes people stop talking about this?” All other considerations are irrelevant.

In terms of the future, I see problems that are systemic rather than personal to Richard Brodhead. Duke has a relatively weak board of trustees. Most decisions are made by a small, self perpetuating executive committee of the Trustees. The rest of the Trustees are basically wealthy and/or well connected people whom the university wants to butter up for donations. Actual day to day governance is done by an emergent and constantly growing class of professional administrators. Some of those professional administrators are good at what they do, but many seem to be poor even by the standards of nonprofits and are overpayed as well. These are challenges not unique to Duke. I would like to see a president who is a leader and who has more practical management skills. While not disqualifying per se, I am not sure that the humanities are the best place to look for that skillset.

[JGB]

One possible choice for Brodhead's successor would be Kristina Johnson, the ex-Dean of the Pratt School of Engineering at Duke. She was an excellent Dean, administrator, and great fundraiser. Duke would be lucky to have her back.

[howardlander]

One possible choice for Brodhead's successor would be Kristina Johnson, the ex-Dean of the Pratt School of Engineering at Duke. She was an excellent Dean, administrator, and great fundraiser. Duke would be lucky to have her back.

There is also John Simon, who was vice-provost at Duke and provost at Virginia and is now the president at Lehigh. There is a lot to recommend John including his rock solid integrity as demonstrated when he resisted the hostile takeover at UVA a few years back. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/u-va-provost-john-simons-defining-moment/2012/12/22/21faadb2-4b72-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_story.html

Howard