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GGLC
04-12-2016, 01:12 PM
Welp. (http://www.swishappeal.com/2016/4/12/11414146/duke-launches-investigation-mistreatment)

Tom B.
04-12-2016, 01:40 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.

I know this was linked elsewhere, but I thought it merited its own thread. Mods, please feel free to merge if you deem it appropriate.

http://www.swishappeal.com/2016/4/12/11414146/duke-launches-investigation-mistreatment

JasonEvans
04-12-2016, 01:43 PM
Welp. (http://www.swishappeal.com/2016/4/12/11414146/duke-launches-investigation-mistreatment)


The administration at Duke has begun an investigation into the women's basketball program for the mistreatment of players and coaches, multiple sources tell Swish Appeal.

The Blue Devils are now doing a very thorough investigation of the women's basketball program following the most defections: recent star forward Azurá Stevens (transfer) and Angela Salvadores (leaving program) -- a highly talented freshman.

We would ask all of you to be very careful in addressing this issue.

We do not have confirmation from Duke that this investigation is happening yet. I am not surprised at that as the lawyers would tell the school not to say anything until the investigation is concluded. There has been rumor and innuendo going around for a long time about Coach P and we will not allow that to be parroted on the DBR. I will merely state that I hope this investigation, if there really is one, is thorough and that all parties are treated fairly. Any rush to judgement would not be prudent.

-Jason "if this is happening, this is truly a dark day for Duke women's hoops" Evans

GGLC
04-12-2016, 01:45 PM
The most pertinent passage:


Duke Legal has already spoken with current players and is planning on interviewing former players, and also former staff members, who have been under Coach Joanne P. McCallie during her tenure at Duke. There have been multiple departures in her time as head coach, and sources say that it is because of the alleged mistreatment.

MCFinARL
04-12-2016, 01:55 PM
We would ask all of you to be very careful in addressing this issue.

We do not have confirmation from Duke that this investigation is happening yet. I am not surprised at that as the lawyers would tell the school not to say anything until the investigation is concluded. There has been rumor and innuendo going around for a long time about Coach P and we will not allow that to be parroted on the DBR. I will merely state that I hope this investigation, if there really is one, is thorough and that all parties are treated fairly. Any rush to judgement would not be prudent.

-Jason "if this is happening, this is truly a dark day for Duke women's hoops" Evans

Agree that we need to be careful about accepting as truth a report supported by "multiple sources" who are not identified and whose connection to the school or program is unknown. But a journalist with any sense would probably want to be pretty confident before going with a story like this because of potential libel litigation. That being said, I have no idea whether this particular reporter has any sense.

True for sure that if there is such an investigation, regardless of what it finds, it is a dark day.

BD80
04-12-2016, 02:22 PM
Well, that escalated quickly. ...

6276

chrishoke
04-12-2016, 02:57 PM
It's always darkest just before the dawn.

tieguy
04-12-2016, 03:03 PM
Agree that we need to be careful about accepting as truth a report supported by "multiple sources" who are not identified and whose connection to the school or program is unknown.

I think that's fair; the author may well be simply going on a "where smoke fire" theory. But there has obviously been a lot of smoke lately, and the claim that the school's legal team is involved is pretty specific. Now that this is out there, I'd love to see one of the local papers pay a bit more attention to the situation.

sagegrouse
04-12-2016, 03:09 PM
My only observation is that the "off-season" has started like a spring avalanche in the Rockies.

Kfanarmy
04-12-2016, 03:21 PM
Changes the whole calculus on the contract potentially

CameronBornAndBred
04-12-2016, 03:26 PM
Agree that we need to be careful about accepting as truth a report supported by "multiple sources" who are not identified and whose connection to the school or program is unknown. But a journalist with any sense would probably want to be pretty confident before going with a story like this because of potential libel litigation. That being said, I have no idea whether this particular reporter has any sense.

Me either, but it seems like women's basketball is this guy's beat. http://www.swishappeal.com/authors/mike-robinson

I'm going to assume that there is truth to what he writes; he doesn't have anything outlandish posted a-la the National Enquirer, although it does seem that he enjoys reporting the damning and sensational. (Lots of attention given to Tyler Summitt). I don't know any news based website that doesn't love the misery of others though, happy news doesn't sell ads.

So, assuming there is truth to this, I welcome it greatly. Years of reported dissatisfaction from past players and lateral moves (or flat out departures) by coaching staff adds up to something. I've been a P supporter since her arrival, and would still love to see her succeed at Duke, but something is up and if the university is digging in to uncover the truth, that's awesome. At the worst, there is a coaching change, at the best there is an awareness that there are some serious issues that need addressing and corrected.
The women's program is something we can be proud of; I'm completely on board with an investigation ensuring that it remains that way.

dukeclassof2016
04-12-2016, 03:35 PM
Obviously we are not fully aware as to whether there is indeed an investigation but, assuming that there is, what are the potential consequences of this?

Is this a matter in which the NCAA will be involved should Duke's investigation successfully yield any findings, or is it an internal matter which may be dealt with internally?

I'm assuming that the answer to this question will significantly affect the types of consequences that may be dealt. If this is an NCAA matter, are we looking at any sorts of scholarship reductions, postseason bans, etc.? If this is an internal matter, are we looking at coaching changes, specifically at the head coach level?

CameronBornAndBred
04-12-2016, 03:47 PM
Obviously we are not fully aware as to whether there is indeed an investigation but, assuming that there is, what are the potential consequences of this?

Is this a matter in which the NCAA will be involved should Duke's investigation successfully yield any findings, or is it an internal matter which may be dealt with internally?

I'm assuming that the answer to this question will significantly affect the types of consequences that may be dealt. If this is an NCAA matter, are we looking at any sorts of scholarship reductions, postseason bans, etc.? If this is an internal matter, are we looking at coaching changes, specifically at the head coach level?
If it's true, and if it's proven, it should be an internal Duke matter without NCAA intervention. Similar to Bobby Knight at Indiana, Tim Beckman at Illinois (football), and others. She'd presumably be fired, Duke would get a new coach, and move on.
Mistreating your players is different than letting them cheat in class; there is no benefit to your team so the NCAA doesn't get involved.

CameronBornAndBred
04-12-2016, 03:53 PM
Similar to Bobby Knight at Indiana, Tim Beckman at Illinois (football), and others.
Wow...that guy got paid 250K in a settlement.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-illinois-reaches-settlement-20160412-story.html

aswewere
04-12-2016, 03:54 PM
Wonder how this will shake out ? http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=210881091&DB_OEM_ID=4200

JasonEvans
04-12-2016, 04:03 PM
Similar to Bobby Knight at Indiana, Tim Beckman at Illinois (football), and others.

The biggest "other" and the case that potentially mirrors this the most closely is Mike Rice, the former basketball coach at Rutgers (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9128825/rutgers-scarlet-knights-fire-coach-mike-rice-wake-video-scandal)... especially if the talk of a damning practice video is true.

-Jason "I suspect ESPN's Outside the Lines is on their way to Durham right now... sigh" Evans

CameronBornAndBred
04-12-2016, 04:07 PM
Wonder how this will shake out ? http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=210881091&DB_OEM_ID=4200
I get a link to network solutions saying Duke needs to renew the domain, haha.

JetpackJesus
04-12-2016, 04:28 PM
We would ask all of you to be very careful in addressing this issue.

We do not have confirmation from Duke that this investigation is happening yet. I am not surprised at that as the lawyers would tell the school not to say anything until the investigation is concluded. There has been rumor and innuendo going around for a long time about Coach P and we will not allow that to be parroted on the DBR. I will merely state that I hope this investigation, if there really is one, is thorough and that all parties are treated fairly. Any rush to judgement would not be prudent.

-Jason "if this is happening, this is truly a dark day for Duke women's hoops" Evans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLUeTKYtpk

Kidding aside, I agree with everything in this post. Whatever may or may not have happened, I hope that the University handles the situation appropriately.

94duke
04-12-2016, 04:28 PM
The biggest "other" and the case that potentially mirrors this the most closely is Mike Rice, the former basketball coach at Rutgers (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9128825/rutgers-scarlet-knights-fire-coach-mike-rice-wake-video-scandal)... especially if the talk of a damning practice video is true.

-Jason "I suspect ESPN's Outside the Lines is on their way to Durham right now... sigh" Evans

Did I miss the talk about a practice video? thanks.

miramar
04-12-2016, 04:49 PM
Worst case: the investigation reveals that at least some allegations are true, which means that there was a toxic culture in the program and the AD's never figured it out (or did anything about it) for nine years. Multiple heads could roll.

Best case: the investigation reveals that the allegations are unfounded or not entirely credible, but every recruit from now will be hearing the story that the WBB program had to be investigated, not to mention X number of players transferred (they'll probably hear something like "run off"), assistants decided to leave (again, "run off"), etc.

No matter what, this is a really unfortunate situation.

aswewere
04-12-2016, 05:04 PM
Worst case: the investigation reveals that at least some allegations are true, which means that there was a toxic culture in the program and the AD's never figured it out (or did anything about it) for nine years. Multiple heads could roll.

Best case: the investigation reveals that the allegations are unfounded or not entirely credible, but every recruit from now will be hearing the story that the WBB program had to be investigated, not to mention X number of players transferred (they'll probably hear something like "run off"), assistants decided to leave (again, "run off"), etc.

No matter what, this is a really unfortunate situation.

What I am reading and hearing from others is where has our administration been for years in this matter. I personally
have written my concerns to them for the last four years.

Tom B.
04-12-2016, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by JasonEvans

We would ask all of you to be very careful in addressing this issue.

We do not have confirmation from Duke that this investigation is happening yet. I am not surprised at that as the lawyers would tell the school not to say anything until the investigation is concluded. There has been rumor and innuendo going around for a long time about Coach P and we will not allow that to be parroted on the DBR. I will merely state that I hope this investigation, if there really is one, is thorough and that all parties are treated fairly. Any rush to judgement would not be prudent.

-Jason "if this is happening, this is truly a dark day for Duke women's hoops" Evans


https://youtu.be/OvLUeTKYtpk

Kidding aside, I agree with everything in this post. Whatever may or may not have happened, I hope that the University handles the situation appropriately.



Heh. I thought your video link was going to be this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzybAS7zltE

oldnavy
04-12-2016, 05:05 PM
Hate this for Duke and everyone involved.

I am especially interested in how "abuse and mistreatment" is defined.

I would have to say that no matter what is found regarding the specific charges, it appears that Coach P has perhaps "lost" the program.

This could be to the point where Duke does a "show cause".

sagegrouse
04-12-2016, 05:11 PM
Plain vanilla:


By Laura Keeley

Duke is evaluating its women’s basketball program, the school’s athletics department announced Tuesday.

Here’s the statement:

“The welfare and success of our student-athletes are among Duke’s highest priorities. To that end, we are in the process of conducting an evaluation of the Duke women’s basketball program. This effort is led by a Duke human resources professional outside the Athletics Department. Coach McCallie is aware of the evaluation and eager to assist. We look forward to hearing the insights of those involved in the program and any recommendations that may result from this evaluation.”

COYS
04-12-2016, 05:13 PM
I would have to say that no matter what is found regarding the specific charges, it appears that Coach P has perhaps "lost" the program.

This could be to the point where Duke does a "show cause".

My thoughts, exactly. Regardless of whether "mistreatment and abuse" rises to the level of illegal actions, violations of school policy, or simply a dictatorial style of leadership, it seems that her time is almost certainly coming to an end.

Kfanarmy
04-12-2016, 05:15 PM
What I am reading and hearing from others is where has our administration been for years in this matter. I personally
have written my concerns to them for the last four years.


yes, but there is that whole crying wolf thing...the crier gets tuned out long before the wolf gets into the sheep.

aswewere
04-12-2016, 05:18 PM
yes, but there is that whole crying wolf thing...the crier gets tuned out long before the wolf gets into the sheep.

Chronicle http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2016/04/duke-conducting-evaluation-of-womens-basketball-program

dukejim1
04-12-2016, 05:22 PM
Worst case: the investigation reveals that at least some allegations are true, which means that there was a toxic culture in the program and the AD's never figured it out (or did anything about it) for nine years. Multiple heads could roll.

Best case: the investigation reveals that the allegations are unfounded or not entirely credible, but every recruit from now will be hearing the story that the WBB program had to be investigated, not to mention X number of players transferred (they'll probably hear something like "run off"), assistants decided to leave (again, "run off"), etc.

No matter what, this is a really unfortunate situation.

My best case is that they have strong enough evidence to prove there was fire where smoke has existed for several years that would allow them to terminate her with cause avoiding the buyout. Then an already declining program can start a recovery program.

sagegrouse
04-12-2016, 05:34 PM
My best case is that they have strong enough evidence to prove there was fire where smoke has existed for several years that would allow them to terminate her with cause avoiding the buyout. Then an already declining program can start a recovery program.

Your second sentence may have trouble getting started if the fire in the first sentence burns down the entire Duke Forest.

CameronBornAndBred
04-12-2016, 05:38 PM
Agree that we need to be careful about accepting as truth a report supported by "multiple sources" who are not identified and whose connection to the school or program is unknown. But a journalist with any sense would probably want to be pretty confident before going with a story like this because of potential libel litigation. That being said, I have no idea whether this particular reporter has any sense.

True for sure that if there is such an investigation, regardless of what it finds, it is a dark day.


Me either, but it seems like women's basketball is this guy's beat. http://www.swishappeal.com/authors/mike-robinson
I wonder if Mike Robinson is staring at a big fat raise tomorrow. First one to break it.

-jk
04-12-2016, 05:45 PM
I get a link to network solutions saying Duke needs to renew the domain, haha.

Weird. Maybe your dns has been hacked! Should be good until 2022.


Domain Name: GODUKE.COM
Registry Domain ID: 900579_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Registrar URL: http://networksolutions.com
Updated Date: 2016-04-12T19:38:14Z
Creation Date: 1996-04-09T04:00:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2022-04-10T04:00:00Z

-jk

CameronBornAndBred
04-12-2016, 05:49 PM
Weird. Maybe your dns has been hacked! Should be good until 2022.



-jk
It's back up, haha. Someone was sweating for a few minutes. (same results on phone earlier, so if it was DNS it was a good hack!)

aswewere
04-12-2016, 06:08 PM
If nothing else had occurred, where was the program the day she walked in and now ? Of course the injuries are
her / our sole problem. How about another five year extension & raise.

Doria
04-12-2016, 06:22 PM
Hate this for Duke and everyone involved.

I am especially interested in how "abuse and mistreatment" is defined.

I would have to say that no matter what is found regarding the specific charges, it appears that Coach P has perhaps "lost" the program.

This could be to the point where Duke does a "show cause".

Yes, does anyone more knowledgeable than I have any detailed explanation what the charges that are mentioned in the article(s) might involve, specifically? I'm not looking for rumors about the team, but general information about the range of behavior that is alleged. I am assuming that it is defined somewhere either via the NCAA or internally at Duke?

dudog84
04-12-2016, 06:25 PM
I was thinking about this during the women’s championship game but didn’t want to stir anything up. But this is the perfect thread for it, so here goes.

During the broadcast, one of the announcers claimed that Geno had made every one of his players cry at some point during their careers at UConn. And said it like it was a good thing. So where is the line between tough coaching and abuse? And how much does winning have to do with the placement of that line? And is the line different for male vs. female players?

Geno looks like a peach on the sideline, but that’s easy when you’re up by 30 in every game. Have you ever seen Dawn Staley or Kim Mulkey on the sideline? Can you imagine what they are like in practice? Even our own Coach K can get pretty blue by all accounts.

So is there a bright line? All programs have transfers. Lexie Brown left a Final Four team. Taya Reimer was more highly rated than any of our current players and she left Notre Dame (perennial contender) for Michigan State. How do we explain Amber Henson playing through 6 knee surgeries and coming back for a 5th year?

Azura Stevens had a consensus rating of #40 coming out of high school and is now one of the best players from that class. So she got some coaching here. I’m sure other players feel they didn’t reach their potential. How hard do you push somebody? Now more than ever I think you need to be a master psychologist to be a coach. Aren’t we lucky we have Coach K?

And here’s a question for us homers…how much does the Duke education have to do with it? Maybe the girls that come here are more interested in the value of a Duke degree than chasing a $36K rookie WNBA contract. Grab that free education, play a sport you love, and travel the country (don’t take that the wrong way, I see no lack of effort from our girls). And I’m 100% ok with that. Maybe the Duke administration is also. I’m also ok with a girl that wants to play pro here or overseas until her arms fall off. I think it’s obvious that those different players will accept a different level of tough love. Do we get a different type of recruit? I don't mean this to be insulting to anyone, so please don't take it that way.

I’ve had coaches that would scream themselves red in the face. I hated them sometimes, loved them sometimes.

This certainly is bad optics for the program, but I’m glad that it’s happening. Azura’s leaving was a shock. There’s a schism in the fan base, and this investigation should put it to rest (for a while…maybe). If Coach P is abusive, then she has to go. I’m also glad I don’t have to decide where that line is. We’re in a different era from when I grew up. Are coaches held to a different standard from 30 years ago? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Lots of questions in there, but I’d appreciate input from others. Reasonable responses only, please. That’s what I like most about this board, and props to the mods, because we have some great, usually intelligent, and usually civil discussions here.

aswewere
04-12-2016, 06:39 PM
I was thinking about this during the women’s championship game but didn’t want to stir anything up. But this is the perfect thread for it, so here goes.

During the broadcast, one of the announcers claimed that Geno had made every one of his players cry at some point during their careers at UConn. And said it like it was a good thing. So where is the line between tough coaching and abuse? And how much does winning have to do with the placement of that line? And is the line different for male vs. female players?

Geno looks like a peach on the sideline, but that’s easy when you’re up by 30 in every game. Have you ever seen Dawn Staley or Kim Mulkey on the sideline? Can you imagine what they are like in practice? Even our own Coach K can get pretty blue by all accounts.

So is there a bright line? All programs have transfers. Lexie Brown left a Final Four team. Taya Reimer was more highly rated than any of our current players and she left Notre Dame (perennial contender) for Michigan State. How do we explain Amber Henson playing through 6 knee surgeries and coming back for a 5th year?

Azura Stevens had a consensus rating of #40 coming out of high school and is now one of the best players from that class. So she got some coaching here. I’m sure other players feel they didn’t reach their potential. How hard do you push somebody? Now more than ever I think you need to be a master psychologist to be a coach. Aren’t we lucky we have Coach K?

And here’s a question for us homers…how much does the Duke education have to do with it? Maybe the girls that come here are more interested in the value of a Duke degree than chasing a $36K rookie WNBA contract. Grab that free education, play a sport you love, and travel the country (don’t take that the wrong way, I see no lack of effort from our girls). And I’m 100% ok with that. Maybe the Duke administration is also. I’m also ok with a girl that wants to play pro here or overseas until her arms fall off. I think it’s obvious that those different players will accept a different level of tough love. Do we get a different type of recruit? I don't mean this to be insulting to anyone, so please don't take it that way.

I’ve had coaches that would scream themselves red in the face. I hated them sometimes, loved them sometimes.

This certainly is bad optics for the program, but I’m glad that it’s happening. Azura’s leaving was a shock. There’s a schism in the fan base, and this investigation should put it to rest (for a while…maybe). If Coach P is abusive, then she has to go. I’m also glad I don’t have to decide where that line is. We’re in a different era from when I grew up. Are coaches held to a different standard from 30 years ago? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Lots of questions in there, but I’d appreciate input from others. Reasonable responses only, please. That’s what I like most about this board, and props to the mods, because we have some great, usually intelligent, and usually civil discussions here.



A couple of coaches you used for comparison above also had reputations as excellent coaches.

jimsumner
04-12-2016, 06:41 PM
I was thinking about this during the women’s championship game but didn’t want to stir anything up. But this is the perfect thread for it, so here goes.

During the broadcast, one of the announcers claimed that Geno had made every one of his players cry at some point during their careers at UConn. And said it like it was a good thing. So where is the line between tough coaching and abuse? And how much does winning have to do with the placement of that line? And is the line different for male vs. female players?

Geno looks like a peach on the sideline, but that’s easy when you’re up by 30 in every game. Have you ever seen Dawn Staley or Kim Mulkey on the sideline? Can you imagine what they are like in practice? Even our own Coach K can get pretty blue by all accounts.

So is there a bright line? All programs have transfers. Lexie Brown left a Final Four team. Taya Reimer was more highly rated than any of our current players and she left Notre Dame (perennial contender) for Michigan State. How do we explain Amber Henson playing through 6 knee surgeries and coming back for a 5th year?

Azura Stevens had a consensus rating of #40 coming out of high school and is now one of the best players from that class. So she got some coaching here. I’m sure other players feel they didn’t reach their potential. How hard do you push somebody? Now more than ever I think you need to be a master psychologist to be a coach. Aren’t we lucky we have Coach K?

And here’s a question for us homers…how much does the Duke education have to do with it? Maybe the girls that come here are more interested in the value of a Duke degree than chasing a $36K rookie WNBA contract. Grab that free education, play a sport you love, and travel the country (don’t take that the wrong way, I see no lack of effort from our girls). And I’m 100% ok with that. Maybe the Duke administration is also. I’m also ok with a girl that wants to play pro here or overseas until her arms fall off. I think it’s obvious that those different players will accept a different level of tough love. Do we get a different type of recruit? I don't mean this to be insulting to anyone, so please don't take it that way.

I’ve had coaches that would scream themselves red in the face. I hated them sometimes, loved them sometimes.

This certainly is bad optics for the program, but I’m glad that it’s happening. Azura’s leaving was a shock. There’s a schism in the fan base, and this investigation should put it to rest (for a while…maybe). If Coach P is abusive, then she has to go. I’m also glad I don’t have to decide where that line is. We’re in a different era from when I grew up. Are coaches held to a different standard from 30 years ago? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Lots of questions in there, but I’d appreciate input from others. Reasonable responses only, please. That’s what I like most about this board, and props to the mods, because we have some great, usually intelligent, and usually civil discussions here.

The value of a Duke degree is paramount in players coming to Duke and sticking around at Duke. That's why I'm confident Duke will be attractive to quality coaches when the need to find one arises and will be attractive to top-tier recruits once new management hits town.

I don't see how McCallie survives this.

I'm not surprised by any of this.

brevity
04-12-2016, 07:36 PM
There has been rumor and innuendo going around for a long time about Coach P and we will not allow that to be parroted on the DBR.


The biggest "other" and the case that potentially mirrors this the most closely is Mike Rice, the former basketball coach at Rutgers (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9128825/rutgers-scarlet-knights-fire-coach-mike-rice-wake-video-scandal)... especially if the talk of a damning practice video is true.


Did I miss the talk about a practice video? thanks.

I haven't read anything about a practice video either. Might be the time for some self-imposed infractioning, Mr. Evans.

Saratoga2
04-12-2016, 07:36 PM
Worst case: the investigation reveals that at least some allegations are true, which means that there was a toxic culture in the program and the AD's never figured it out (or did anything about it) for nine years. Multiple heads could roll.

Best case: the investigation reveals that the allegations are unfounded or not entirely credible, but every recruit from now will be hearing the story that the WBB program had to be investigated, not to mention X number of players transferred (they'll probably hear something like "run off"), assistants decided to leave (again, "run off"), etc.

No matter what, this is a really unfortunate situation.

I agree with you that no good can come of this situation. We on the thread have no way of knowing if there is any reality other than circumstantial evidence which points to problems in the program. Best to let it play out and see what comes of it.

JasonEvans
04-12-2016, 09:05 PM
I haven't read anything about a practice video either. Might be the time for some self-imposed infractioning, Mr. Evans.

Sorry. It has been mentioned by a women's hoops reporter named Mike Flynn in a couple tweets and there are conversations on another Duke site about videos that allegedly show fighting (not clear if it is between players or coaches and players) at practices.


https://twitter.com/MikeFlynn826/status/719947728478945281 @MikeFlynn826 7h hours ago
@SwishAppeal @DukeU @Duke_WBB Well it finally came to the surface. AD & admins should fear their coverup of it. Fight Videos 1 yr old. Duh!!

https://twitter.com/MikeFlynn826/status/718544594649161728 @MikeFlynn826
@heinemanT @coachljp @wbballhoopscoop @Duke_WBB @DukeU All you need to see is the Practice Video fights to know word "coverup" by AD & admin

-Jason "maybe I should have stayed away from it, but it felt to me like the existence of controversial practice videos was 'out there'" Evans

Ima Facultiwyfe
04-12-2016, 09:13 PM
Duke's administration doesn't have a very good track record of handling sticky situations, demands, charges, complaints, etc etc. Hope they step up to the plate and are fair and square with all concerned from the gitgo this time. Guess we'll see what Kevin White is really made of for starters. He's made us proud so far. Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
Love, Ima

chrishoke
04-12-2016, 09:16 PM
We can't change what has passed. Please Duke, do the right and honorable thing now.

Dukehky
04-12-2016, 10:03 PM
We can't change what has passed. Please Duke, do the right and honorable thing now.

I was at practice every day for 3 years. I never saw Coach P cross a line. That was several years ago though. I defend her more than she probably deserves, but this would surprise me if she went blatantly and habitually over the line.

Hope its not true, but it is what it is.

gep
04-13-2016, 12:45 AM
The value of a Duke degree is paramount in players coming to Duke and sticking around at Duke. That's why I'm confident Duke will be attractive to quality coaches when the need to find one arises and will be attractive to top-tier recruits once new management hits town.

I don't see how McCallie survives this.

I'm not surprised by any of this.

I apologize if I read too much "between the lines".... but those in the know must have known stuff like this (whatever "this" is) has been going on for quite awhile...:confused:

BigWayne
04-13-2016, 03:18 AM
I was at practice every day for 3 years. I never saw Coach P cross a line. That was several years ago though. I defend her more than she probably deserves, but this would surprise me if she went blatantly and habitually over the line.

Hope its not true, but it is what it is.

Based on what I see in the news from various college campuses these days, the line may have moved since you were on campus.

sagegrouse
04-13-2016, 08:49 AM
On the Front Page, our leader J.D. King writes:


It's vital that Duke University find out what this is about and does so quickly, fully and as transparently as possible. We realize that the law means some things cannot be made public but whatever can be should be. Ruthlessly. Nothing should be held back or kept under wraps. Put everything out for the public to see.

I respectfully disagree. This is a personnel matter and should be kept mostly under wraps, especially if Coach McCallie's departure is the result. Dr. White might say, "There were differences in the direction of the program. We wish Coach McCallie well, etc." Or, at most, "There were deficiencies in leadership both respect to the staff and the players, and we are sure this was a learning experience. We wish Coach ... well...." Of course, to buttress a TFC (termination for cause), there would need to be an internal report -- but "transparently" doesn't fit this activity.

If this inquiry does not result in the departure of Coach P, then there should be some changes announced, such as an "agreement on improved management practices and sensitivity to the needs of student-athletes." Presumably there would be some staff realignment.

I would go further, though, and say that no one launches an investigation without a pretty good idea what happened, because a leak could be injurious both to the investigatee and to the one who started the inquiry. Moreover, the fact of the leak suggests that the "human resources professional" reached out to former assistants and staff members and, maybe, former players.

CameronBornAndBred
04-13-2016, 10:05 AM
I've been reading what I can on this, which isn't much, but there is one thing that I've noticed that stands out; only one article (the first one) uses the word "mistreatment".
To me, mistreatment implies abuse, either physical or verbal. I'm curious to learn if the investigation finds this is the case, as opposed to Coach P is basically a real wanker to work and play for. I've had a few jobs that I was more than happy to leave because my boss sucked, but that doesn't mean he/she "mistreated" me. They were simply not pleasant people to work for and be around.

oldnavy
04-13-2016, 10:30 AM
I've been reading what I can on this, which isn't much, but there is one thing that I've noticed that stands out; only one article (the first one) uses the word "mistreatment".
To me, mistreatment implies abuse, either physical or verbal. I'm curious to learn if the investigation finds this is the case, as opposed to Coach P is basically a real wanker to work and play for. I've had a few jobs that I was more than happy to leave because my boss sucked, but that doesn't mean he/she "mistreated" me. They were simply not pleasant people to work for and be around.

This is exactly what I had in mind when I said that I would be interested in the how abuse is defined in this investigation.

Some people are just abrasive and difficult. Doesn't always mean that they are abusive.

We all know people that can tick you off by just saying good morning, and others who can basically tell you to go to hell and make you look forward to the trip.

rtnorthrup
04-13-2016, 10:30 AM
I was at practice every day for 3 years. I never saw Coach P cross a line. That was several years ago though. I defend her more than she probably deserves, but this would surprise me if she went blatantly and habitually over the line.

Hope its not true, but it is what it is.

I think the issue is going to be, what is that line. Clearly some things are beyond it: physical contact, clear verbal abuse, etc. But when it comes to coaching, there can be grey areas. Part of being a good and effective coach is pushing players past what they believe their own limits to be. Players wont grow if they consistently stay in their comfort zone. There are things said by a coach to a player that would clearly be beyond the line in most other contexts. As one poster pointed out earlier on here, Geno Auriemma has a reputation for being a very tough coach to play for, but his players love him for it. That said, there has to be parental love from a coach. Thats what makes all the coaching acceptable. Players know when a coach is pushing them for their own betterment and when a coach is just being mean.

Whatever is going on, the number of defections is clearly troubling. Even if it doesn't "cross a line" as you say, it indicates that there is at least a communication problem between Coach P and her players. The issue is that no matter how this comes out, I cant see how she can effectively do her job. The reputation damage to her as a coach has already been done. How will she be able to go into a recruits home and undo the damage that this will do. You know that other coaches are going to use this against her.

GGLC
04-13-2016, 10:31 AM
I've been reading what I can on this, which isn't much, but there is one thing that I've noticed that stands out; only one article (the first one) uses the word "mistreatment".
To me, mistreatment implies abuse, either physical or verbal. I'm curious to learn if the investigation finds this is the case, as opposed to Coach P is basically a real wanker to work and play for. I've had a few jobs that I was more than happy to leave because my boss sucked, but that doesn't mean he/she "mistreated" me. They were simply not pleasant people to work for and be around.

CBB, have you seen any articles other than the Swish Appeal one that go beyond the "evaluation" language used in the press release and provide any further details? I'd be interested to read them.

Dukehky
04-13-2016, 10:42 AM
I've been reading what I can on this, which isn't much, but there is one thing that I've noticed that stands out; only one article (the first one) uses the word "mistreatment".
To me, mistreatment implies abuse, either physical or verbal. I'm curious to learn if the investigation finds this is the case, as opposed to Coach P is basically a real wanker to work and play for. I've had a few jobs that I was more than happy to leave because my boss sucked, but that doesn't mean he/she "mistreated" me. They were simply not pleasant people to work for and be around.

Well, friend, this describes Coach P quite, quite well.

killerleft
04-13-2016, 11:09 AM
My first thought upon reading the SwishAppeal article was that she may have already been asked to leave on friendly terms and declined. I have absolutely no proof, though, and don't mean this as a rumor. Is it a warning shot across the bow?

She has always come across as being stubborn and tough, was my second thought. We might be in for a real bumpy ride, or WWI trench warfare.

GGLC
04-13-2016, 11:22 AM
I just wish there was a way to keep Azurá.

CameronBornAndBred
04-13-2016, 11:24 AM
CBB, have you seen any articles other than the Swish Appeal one that go beyond the "evaluation" language used in the press release and provide any further details? I'd be interested to read them.
Nope, which is why I pointed out that the SA article is the only one I've seen to use such wording as he did.

Mike Corey
04-13-2016, 11:25 AM
I hope the evaluation is productive for all involved, and am confident that there are better days ahead for DWB.

Everything else at this point is guesswork.

GGLC
04-13-2016, 11:36 AM
Nope, which is why I pointed out that the SA article is the only one I've seen to use such wording as he did.

Yeah, I was just wondering if there was anything out there that gave any details at all other than the Swish Appeal piece. An "evaluation of the women's basketball program" is such a meaningless phrase.

alteran
04-13-2016, 11:37 AM
My first thought upon reading the SwishAppeal article was that she may have already been asked to leave on friendly terms and declined. I have absolutely no proof, though, and don't mean this as a rumor. Is it a warning shot across the bow?

My thought as well.

I don't know if I can add anything to that without running afoul of our posting rules, but I think I'm okay in saying that it seems possible that an investigation could easily turn up stuff she doesn't want out there regardless of whether it rises to legal definitions of abuse.

CameronBornAndBred
04-13-2016, 11:38 AM
Yeah, I was just wondering if there was anything out there that gave any details at all other than the Swish Appeal piece. An "evaluation of the women's basketball program" is such a meaningless phrase.
I disagree. I think it says exactly what Duke is doing. Interviewing both current and ex staff, as well as current and past players. It's not a witch hunt. I take it to mean that Duke realizes that something is wrong and needs correcting.

grossbus
04-13-2016, 11:39 AM
"I would go further, though, and say that no one launches an investigation without a pretty good idea what happened, because a leak could be injurious both to the investigatee and to the one who started the inquiry. Moreover, the fact of the leak suggests that the "human resources professional" reached out to former assistants and staff members and, maybe, former players."

I posted pretty much the same thing elsewhere.


As for the video, a brief practice altercation between two players who were friends. Judged to be "minor" and no big deal.

bluedevilsince72
04-13-2016, 11:39 AM
On the Front Page, our leader J.D. King writes:

I would go further, though, and say that no one launches an investigation without a pretty good idea what happened, because a leak could be injurious both to the investigatee and to the one who started the inquiry. Moreover, the fact of the leak suggests that the "human resources professional" reached out to former assistants and staff members and, maybe, former players.

The fact that this investigation was made public indicates to me that Duke wants to put the pressure on Coach P to resign. I don't know how Coach P coaches after this embarrassment . Will Coach P want all the dirty laundry to be aired publicly (whether its true or not) which may make it impossible for her to continue coaching anywhere? If she resigns, nothing comes out and she moves on. If she digs in, won't the complaints from every disgruntled former player, current players, transfers, upset parents, former and current assistants, and administrative people leak out?

Hasn't Duke done an internal investigation before with Coach P? The fact that Duke puts out a statement this time does not bode very well for her. Is she gone within the next 2 weeks?

OldPhiKap
04-13-2016, 11:47 AM
The fact that this investigation was made public indicates to me that Duke wants to put the pressure on Coach P to resign. I don't know how Coach P coaches after this embarrassment . Will Coach P want all the dirty laundry to be aired publicly (whether its true or not) which may make it impossible for her to continue coaching anywhere? If she resigns, nothing comes out and she moves on. If she digs in, won't the complaints from every disgruntled former player, current players, transfers, upset parents, former and current assistants, and administrative people leak out?

Hasn't Duke done an internal investigation before with Coach P? The fact that Duke puts out a statement this time does not bode very well for her. Is she gone within the next 2 weeks?

I think a reporter blogged about it, forcing Duke to acknowledge that the investigation was already underway.

I could be wrong about that, but I think that's the sequence.

bluedevilsince72
04-13-2016, 11:58 AM
I think a reporter blogged about it, forcing Duke to acknowledge that the investigation was already underway.

I could be wrong about that, but I think that's the sequence.

If that's the case, does Duke have to acknowledge that an investigation was underway? Why not just ignore the reporter?

77devil
04-13-2016, 11:58 AM
The fact that this investigation was made public indicates to me that Duke wants to put the pressure on Coach P to resign. I don't know how Coach P coaches after this embarrassment . Will Coach P want all the dirty laundry to be aired publicly (whether its true or not) which may make it impossible for her to continue coaching anywhere? If she resigns, nothing comes out and she moves on. If she digs in, won't the complaints from every disgruntled former player, current players, transfers, upset parents, former and current assistants, and administrative people leak out?

Hasn't Duke done an internal investigation before with Coach P? The fact that Duke puts out a statement this time does not bode very well for her. Is she gone within the next 2 weeks?

Duke's announcement presumably was forced by the article which begs the question who was/were the source(s)? If someone at Duke was authorized to leak to push Coach P to resign, the two parties may simply be negotiating the package at this point. But I doubt this scenario. More likely someone contacted by the investigators with hard feelings toward P leaked the info.

While it's possible Duke is conducting the investigation with no preconceptions, my experience tells me that the powers that be decided it was time for a change and launched the investigation after P refused to resign when asked. Regardless, I think she's gone and there are only questions of on what basis and how much.

dudog84
04-13-2016, 12:07 PM
As for the video, a brief practice altercation between two players who were friends. Judged to be "minor" and no big deal.

Like Laettner-Hurley? I would pay to see that video. What a different world we live in.

GGLC
04-13-2016, 12:14 PM
"I would go further, though, and say that no one launches an investigation without a pretty good idea what happened, because a leak could be injurious both to the investigatee and to the one who started the inquiry. Moreover, the fact of the leak suggests that the "human resources professional" reached out to former assistants and staff members and, maybe, former players."

I posted pretty much the same thing elsewhere.


As for the video, a brief practice altercation between two players who were friends. Judged to be "minor" and no big deal.

What is your source for the statement that the video is a brief practice alteration between two players who were friends?

devilseven
04-13-2016, 12:31 PM
Say what you will about Coach P, but she's no shrinking violet. I'll bet she has already hired some high powered attorney, and will fight this hard. Duke will probably be lucky to get out of this for the money she's owed per her current contract. Remember the millions that Duke paid to the lacrosse families. She is probably preparing a lawsuit as we speak, and Duke's legal team has not done well in similar situations.

diablesseblu
04-13-2016, 12:36 PM
Say what you will about Coach P, but she's no shrinking violet. I'll bet she has already hired some high powered attorney, and will fight this hard. Duke will probably be lucky to get out of this for the money she's owed per her current contract. Remember the millions that Duke paid to the lacrosse families. She is probably preparing a lawsuit as we speak, and Duke's legal team has not done well in similar situations.


Why would you do that if you wanted to coach again? It seems like that would make her untouchable for another job.

devilseven
04-13-2016, 12:48 PM
Why would you do that if you wanted to coach again? It seems like that would make her untouchable for another job.

She may never file a suit, depending what comes out of this investigation. If she's tarred and feathered, you can bet she'll come out fighting. This becoming public and whatever else comes out probably makes her chances of getting another coaching job near impossible. So she will take what she can get.

bluedevilsince72
04-13-2016, 12:58 PM
She may never file a suit, depending what comes out of this investigation. If she's tarred and feathered, you can bet she'll come out fighting. This becoming public and whatever else comes out probably makes her chances of getting another coaching job near impossible. So she will take what she can get.

If you have read P's book, she discusses her dealings with Mich St and contract negotiations. It seemed very contentious and I think this current situation could get ugly. Hope it doesn't but i'm not optimistic.

diablesseblu
04-13-2016, 01:03 PM
If you have read P's book, she discusses her dealings with Mich St and contract negotiations. It seemed very contentious and I think this current situation could get ugly. Hope it doesn't but i'm not optimistic.

Well, it's not like Kevin White hasn't negotiated with her before. After all, he's the one who gave her the long extension. Whatever happens, hope he's prepared for it.

Reisen
04-13-2016, 01:09 PM
It's back up, haha. Someone was sweating for a few minutes. (same results on phone earlier, so if it was DNS it was a good hack!)

I'm still getting DNS issues with the GoDuke site. Maybe somebody forgot to pay the bill?

cato
04-13-2016, 01:29 PM
Say what you will about Coach P, but she's no shrinking violet. I'll bet she has already hired some high powered attorney, and will fight this hard. Duke will probably be lucky to get out of this for the money she's owed per her current contract. Remember the millions that Duke paid to the lacrosse families. She is probably preparing a lawsuit as we speak, and Duke's legal team has not done well in similar situations.

This seem like a pretty straightforward employment issue, albeit one related to a powerful and relatively high paid employee. Not sure why you think Duke would be rattled by a "high powered attorney."

rtnorthrup
04-13-2016, 01:31 PM
McCallie is a contract employee with Duke. That contract will have certain termination conditions and likely a buyout amount. If Duke wanted to replace her, based on results and/or the direction of the program, they could have easily done so. Schools do that all the time. There would be no reason to open an investigation which could potentially (likely?) become public. In fact, the investigation could potentially backfire. What happens if the investigation exonerates her. How do you terminate her then?

My guess is that Duke has reason to believe that a claim/suit is forthcoming by either a former player or assistant coach. This investigation is part of Duke's response to that claim.

devilseven
04-13-2016, 01:50 PM
This seem like a pretty straightforward employment issue, albeit one related to a powerful and relatively high paid employee. Not sure why you think Duke would be rattled by a "high powered attorney."

They sure were by Pressler and the lacrosse families.

cato
04-13-2016, 02:09 PM
They sure were by Pressler and the lacrosse families.

That, of course, was not a straightforward employment matter.

MCFinARL
04-13-2016, 02:33 PM
Say what you will about Coach P, but she's no shrinking violet. I'll bet she has already hired some high powered attorney, and will fight this hard. Duke will probably be lucky to get out of this for the money she's owed per her current contract. Remember the millions that Duke paid to the lacrosse families. She is probably preparing a lawsuit as we speak, and Duke's legal team has not done well in similar situations.


This seem like a pretty straightforward employment issue, albeit one related to a powerful and relatively high paid employee. Not sure why you think Duke would be rattled by a "high powered attorney."

Yes--I think there is very little similarity between this and the lacrosse situation. Any lawsuit McCallie could bring would likely have to be based on a claim that Duke is in violation of her contract with them or in violation of some provision of state or federal employment law, which sounds pretty straightforward to me. The situation of the lacrosse players was different in just about every way from a legal standpoint, and even Coach Pressler's law suits presented rather differently, as his forced resignation was not really based on anything he had done, but on the fact that his players were accused of doing something that later turned out to be false.

Both the wrongful termination suit and the slander suit (based on violating the terms of the previous settlement agreement) were settled by Duke on undisclosed terms. But these settlements don't necessarily represent intimidation by the other side's lawyers. Often people choose to settle as the best available outcome when litigation would be expensive and damaging to the reputation of the client.

duke79
04-13-2016, 02:36 PM
Am I the only one on this board who feels somewhat "uneasy" with this entire thread? Yea, I know it's human nature to speculate and to wonder what might really be going on when the university makes an announcement like they did yesterday , BUT shouldn't we all just wait until the "evaluation" is completed by the university and THEN see where the chips fall. Obviously, I have no evidence or knowledge what might have been going on in the women's BB program and I don't know Coach P at all, but I do think the Duke administration, the women's BB program AND Coach P ALL deserve a fair investigation and hearing without endless speculation by people who (most likely) don't have any real facts. Just my humble opinion.

devilseven
04-13-2016, 02:40 PM
Yes--I think there is very little similarity between this and the lacrosse situation. Any lawsuit McCallie could bring would likely have to be based on a claim that Duke is in violation of her contract with them or in violation of some provision of state or federal employment law, which sounds pretty straightforward to me. The situation of the lacrosse players was different in just about every way from a legal standpoint, and even Coach Pressler's law suits presented rather differently, as his forced resignation was not really based on anything he had done, but on the fact that his players were accused of doing something that later turned out to be false.

Both the wrongful termination suit and the slander suit (based on violating the terms of the previous settlement agreement) were settled by Duke on undisclosed terms. But these settlements don't necessarily represent intimidation by the other side's lawyers. Often people choose to settle as the best available outcome when litigation would be expensive and damaging to the reputation of the client.

Do you think that Duke has the stomach for a tough, nasty public fight ? They had better not underestimate McCallie, she won't go down without a fight. She has everything to lose.

MCFinARL
04-13-2016, 02:52 PM
Do you think that Duke has the stomach for a tough, nasty public fight ? They had better not underestimate McCallie, she won't go down without a fight. She has everything to lose.

I don't know if they do or not--assuming such a fight would ensue (as another poster has noted, we know very little and can only speculate, which is probably unwise)--but my point was that choosing against a tough, nasty public fight in a lawsuit isn't always caving. Sometimes it is absolutely the most desirable and cost-effective outcome.

Dukehky
04-13-2016, 02:54 PM
I don't think it's gonna be that bad.

OldPhiKap
04-13-2016, 03:15 PM
Am I the only one on this board who feels somewhat "uneasy" with this entire thread? Yea, I know it's human nature to speculate and to wonder what might really be going on when the university makes an announcement like they did yesterday , BUT shouldn't we all just wait until the "evaluation" is completed by the university and THEN see where the chips fall. Obviously, I have no evidence or knowledge what might have been going on in the women's BB program and I don't know Coach P at all, but I do think the Duke administration, the women's BB program AND Coach P ALL deserve a fair investigation and hearing without endless speculation by people who (most likely) don't have any real facts. Just my humble opinion.

Absolutely agree, the speculation has far surpassed known facts.

GGLC
04-13-2016, 03:17 PM
Absolutely agree, the speculation has far surpassed known facts.

I haven't seen any speculation in this thread about that actual issues being investigated, and "known facts" are different from "public facts."

aswewere
04-13-2016, 03:29 PM
Do you think that Duke has the stomach for a tough, nasty public fight ? They had better not underestimate McCallie, she won't go down without a fight. She has everything to lose.

Just money now, she took care of her coaching reputation the last eight years.

OldPhiKap
04-13-2016, 03:34 PM
I haven't seen any speculation in this thread about that actual issues being investigated, and "known facts" are different from "public facts."

I am referring to speculation about contract buy-out fights, threatened litigation, ugly breaks, plans to make the investigation public to put pressure on her to resign, etc. I think we are a long way from any real facts on that, known or public.

I am unaware of anyone with solid information that Coach P was even asked to resign, let alone before the results of the investigation are completed. If someone has it, feel free to PM me. Otherwise, though, I think that is all speculation and much of this thread is way ahead of the facts.

alteran
04-13-2016, 04:03 PM
I'm still getting DNS issues with the GoDuke site. Maybe somebody forgot to pay the bill?

I'm still getting issues on my PC, but my phone browser is fine.

My guess is the DNS entry for GoDuke lapsed briefly and was quickly restored.

DNS can take days to propagate fully, we must be pointing at machines that don't update DNS very often but captured the bad data. We could also be behind proxies with infrequently flushed caches. My guess is it will clear in a day or two.

burnspbesq
04-13-2016, 04:06 PM
The ugliest part of this situation is the way certain regular commenters are reveling in it.

alteran
04-13-2016, 04:08 PM
The ugliest part of this situation is the way certain regular commenters are reveling in it.
I sure hope that's the ugliest aspect of this situation.

miramar
04-13-2016, 06:36 PM
Do you think that Duke has the stomach for a tough, nasty public fight ? They had better not underestimate McCallie, she won't go down without a fight. She has everything to lose.

Does anyone know how many years are left on her contract? As they say, what is our maximum exposure?

I would assume that as long as Duke is ready to pay, then no public fight is necessary if the university decides to make a change (and I'm not speculating that they will). Unless of course the investigation reveals some serious problems that would limit Duke's liability, and at that point a public fight could harm McCallie's future job opportunities, so even under the worst circumstances both sides can avoid bad PR.

Since Duke is a private university, everything can be handled pretty much in house, unlike public universities in states with sunshine laws.

sagegrouse
04-13-2016, 06:54 PM
Does anyone know how many years are left on her contract? As they say, what is our maximum exposure?

I would assume that as long as Duke is ready to pay, then no public fight is necessary if the university decides to make a change (and I'm not speculating that they will). Unless of course the investigation reveals some serious problems that would limit Duke's liability, and at that point a public fight could harm McCallie's future job opportunities, so even under the worst circumstances both sides can avoid bad PR.

Since Duke is a private university, everything can be handled pretty much in house, unlike public universities in states with sunshine laws.

Let me offer, in all fake humility, what I think is going on. Our All-ACC star, Azura Stevens announced she would transfer after two seasons at Duke. Is this unprecedented at Duke in any sport? I can't think of a similar case. And I have heard nothing to suggest there were academic or social problems. Angela Salvadores is a real talent, who stayed only one year, but the adjustment to college hoops is probably difficult for a European star. The bright red flag (blue flag?) is Azura.

Lauren Rice, video coordinator and former all ACC player, was fired over basically nothing. She was much-loved and was reportedly the best link between the men's and women's basketball programs. Uhhh,... MBB is the "big dog" at Duke.

There have been staff defections over the years that would naturally raise questions, but I think the two items above are fairly big deals. Naturally, an investigation began after the season was over. I don't expect it to take long, although any subsequent contract hassles could drag on a while.

I don't think this matter hurts Duke or Duke athletics, unless there was clear wrong-doing that was willfully ignored. I tend to trust Kevin White to run a more than competent AD office.

jimsumner
04-13-2016, 07:00 PM
Does anyone know how many years are left on her contract? As they say, what is our maximum exposure?

I would assume that as long as Duke is ready to pay, then no public fight is necessary if the university decides to make a change (and I'm not speculating that they will). Unless of course the investigation reveals some serious problems that would limit Duke's liability, and at that point a public fight could harm McCallie's future job opportunities, so even under the worst circumstances both sides can avoid bad PR.

Since Duke is a private university, everything can be handled pretty much in house, unlike public universities in states with sunshine laws.

McCallie has three years remaining on her contract.

With all due respect, if Duke was ready to pay, it would not have reached this point.

And the-avoiding-bad-PR-ship has sailed.

ipatent
04-13-2016, 08:51 PM
I haven't read of a specific incident of inappropriate behavior on the part of the coach yet.

miramar
04-13-2016, 08:53 PM
McCallie has three years remaining on her contract.

With all due respect, if Duke was ready to pay, it would not have reached this point.

And the-avoiding-bad-PR-ship has sailed.

I guess by now we are sailing on the S.S. Damage Control, so we didn't make the right reservation.

We should have remembered what the recently-departed Johan Cruyff once said: "Before getting something wrong, I don't make that mistake."

dudog84
04-13-2016, 08:57 PM
..."known facts" are different from "public facts."

You just blew my mind.

bluedevilsince72
04-13-2016, 10:22 PM
I haven't read of a specific incident of inappropriate behavior on the part of the coach yet.

My guess is that you soon will hear some news of inappropriate behavior, especially if she decides to fight this and not leave.

MCFinARL
04-14-2016, 01:17 PM
My guess is that you soon will hear some news of inappropriate behavior, especially if she decides to fight this and not leave.

At this point I am jumping on the "what the heck are we talking about here?" bandwagon. This is your "guess" that we will hear "some news" of some unspecified inappropriate behavior if she decides to fight "this" and not leave?

In addition to reflecting, in its vagueness, how much we don't know about this situation, your post seems to assume that McCallie has been or will be asked to leave--which we don't know.

I don't mean to be bashing your post specifically but unless your guess is based on some reliable, citable inside information, it does offer pretty good evidence of other posters' concern that our speculation is getting way out ahead of the facts here.

aswewere
04-14-2016, 02:40 PM
At this point I am jumping on the "what the heck are we talking about here?" bandwagon. This is your "guess" that we will hear "some news" of some unspecified inappropriate behavior if she decides to fight "this" and not leave?

In addition to reflecting, in its vagueness, how much we don't know about this situation, your post seems to assume that McCallie has been or will be asked to leave--which we don't know.

I don't mean to be bashing your post specifically but unless your guess is based on some reliable, citable inside information, it does offer pretty good evidence of other posters' concern that our speculation is getting way out ahead of the facts here.


speculation is getting way out ahead of the facts here.


Obviously you haven't been following the Duke program closley under coach P management.

GGLC
04-14-2016, 02:49 PM
speculation is getting way out ahead of the facts here.


Obviously you haven't been following the Duke program closley under coach P management.

That's an unfair response to an extremely reasonable post.

Doria
04-14-2016, 04:11 PM
speculation is getting way out ahead of the facts here.


Obviously you haven't been following the Duke program closley under coach P management.

As GGLC says, it's an unfair response to the original post (without further evidence, of which you provide none), and as it stands, it's pretty close to the violation of the board's rules against rumor-mongering, insinuation without fact, etc.

aswewere
04-14-2016, 04:54 PM
As GGLC says, it's an unfair response to the original post (without further evidence, of which you provide none), and as it stands, it's pretty close to the violation of the board's rules against rumor-mongering, insinuation without fact, etc.

With out getting into the whole mess, do you remember Joy Cheek one of ours [family ] that left for a lateral transfer with no good buy, thanks or good luck.
Duke does not operate that way and the same has happened to others. her failure to shake hands or take any responsibility always what the players can
do. Duke has maybe spoiled a lot of us we expect a lot more than we see from our woman's basketball program. Just getting to very basics I haven't talked
to a knowledgeable basketball fan that felt they were watching a well coached team.

hallcity
04-14-2016, 05:23 PM
As GGLC says, it's an unfair response to the original post (without further evidence, of which you provide none), and as it stands, it's pretty close to the violation of the board's rules against rumor-mongering, insinuation without fact, etc.

Let me state what I have directly observed:
1) From McCallie's first Duke team on, I could see a significant decline in team performance. Man to man defense looked disorganized. The offense looked seriously disorganized. At first I attributed this to personnel but it didn't seem to matter who came in, things always looked poorly coached.
2) Year after year, DWB has had very highly rated recruiting classes. However, on the court performance has declined.
3) Lot of kids transfer at lots of programs. Duke had fewer than its share before McCallie. Now, we have more than our share. The transfers this year are shocking. It would be like Grayson Allen and Luke Kennard transferring after this season. Actually, it would be worse than that.
4) There has been serious instability in the assistant coach ranks, including one assistant coach doing the unthinkable and quitting Duke to take an assistant coaching job at UNC.
5) There have been a dramatic reduction in fan support for DWB. Attendance is way down.
6) Justified or not, McCallie is extremely unpopular with almost everyone who follows DWB. Many of McCallie's "defenders" just want everyone to shut up about it because they don't care about women's basketball. I wouldn't care too much if there were some coaching dispute in the Duke rowing program but women's basketball is the third most important athletic program that Duke has after men's basketball and football. Yes, I think it comes before lacrosse. Women's basketball has higher attendance and much more TV coverage than lacrosse which has only a very limited mostly East coast audience.

I don't know if any players have been abused but I do know that Duke really needs a new head coach for women's basketball.

By the way, if you'd like to hear less about women's basketball, you should support a coaching change. If she stays on, the controversy isn't going away.

Kedsy
04-14-2016, 05:48 PM
With out getting into the whole mess, do you remember Joy Cheek one of ours [family ] that left for a lateral transfer with no good buy, thanks or good luck.
Duke does not operate that way and the same has happened to others. her failure to shake hands or take any responsibility always what the players can
do. Duke has maybe spoiled a lot of us we expect a lot more than we see from our woman's basketball program. Just getting to very basics I haven't talked
to a knowledgeable basketball fan that felt they were watching a well coached team.

Except exactly nothing you mention here has anything at all to do with what was being discussed when you chimed in. Your tired repetition doesn't add anything to the issue of whether speculation about this particular situation is way ahead of the known facts (spoiler alert: it is).


Man to man defense looked disorganized.

I'm not sure if you're attempting to splice between man-to-man defense and zone defense, but Duke under Coach P has regularly been one of the best defensive teams in the nation.


Lot of kids transfer at lots of programs. Duke had fewer than its share before McCallie.

This simply isn't true. The number of transfers out during Coach P's first 7 years at Duke was the same (or almost the same, can't remember exactly, but it was at most one off) as the number of transfers out during Coach G's last 7 years at Duke. I think it's just the way things are at the major programs. Coach G was far from immune from this.

That said, the past couple years, especially this year, the transfers have reached a different level.


The transfers this year are shocking.

This I completely agree with. Worse than shocking. And if Coach P somehow drove Azura and Angela off, she should be held accountable. As she should if she has mistreated the players. Absolutely.

But I don't see how anything is gained by Coach P's detractors going over and over the litany of grievances they've been spouting since Coach P's first day. The most recent alleged behavior far, far outstrips any of the petty complaints that we've been hearing all these years.


Many of McCallie's "defenders" just want everyone to shut up about it because they don't care about women's basketball.

This is completely ridiculous.

JasonEvans
04-14-2016, 05:58 PM
Folks, the mods are putting a temporary stop to this thread. We need to deal with some stuff and figure out what will and what will not be allowed going forward. This is a tough time for everyone and guidance is needed.

-Jason