PDA

View Full Version : Featherston article - Elliot Williams



monkey
04-11-2016, 05:38 PM
Featherston article on Thornton transfer had this to say about former Blue Devil E. Williams: "But Williams was still unhappy with his role. In an off-season meeting, he demanded an increased offensive role in 2010. K responded by helping facilitate his transfer to hometown Memphis, where "he could be close to his ailing grandmother.""

... Wait - what?

Was this common knowledge and I just missed it? I had always understood that Williams transferred because of serious family illness. See, e.g., http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3755334

I had also understood the ailing family member to be his mother, not a grandmother. Here's an article with quote from Elliot himself after the transfer saying his mother's illness was the reason for the transfer and also stating the transfer wasn't for basketball reasons. http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/01/duke_transfer_elliot_williams.html

So what gives? While I love Featherston's stuff, something fishy seems afoot here. Either Duke (including Coach K) and the relevant player were outright lying to news media and possibly the NCAA, or something is wrong with this article. Or maybe I'm just really misinformed. In any case unless there's some proof here, which I would love to see, this kind of feels like the sliming of a person's reputation. Which isn't my perception of Featherston as a writer, which makes me confused.

hackysack123
04-11-2016, 05:44 PM
Never heard of this either...

GGLC
04-11-2016, 05:46 PM
My understanding has always been consistent with what Al writes -- specifically, that the primary motivator for Elliott Williams's transfer was unhappiness with playing time and his role on the team. I'm glad to see him say something about it, because it always bugged me a little that the "his transfer wasn't for basketball reasons" thing was still popularly accepted as unvarnished truth, and now that Al wrote about it, it's no longer rumormongering for me to say that I've long heard the same thing from sources I trust.

cato
04-11-2016, 05:51 PM
My understanding has always been consistent with what Al writes -- specifically, that the primary motivator for Elliott Williams's transfer was unhappiness with playing time and his role on the team. I'm glad to see him say something about it, because it always bugged me a little that the "his transfer wasn't for basketball reasons" thing was still popularly accepted as unvarnished truth, and now that Al wrote about it, it's no longer rumormongering for me to say that I've long heard the same thing from sources I trust.

Elliot William's mother died a few years ago due to complications from cancer. I understand she had recovered somewhat during his year at Memphis. I sincerely hope that he had every opportunity to spend quality time with her that year.

This is one instance where I see no gain in questioning the public story.

JasonEvans
04-11-2016, 05:51 PM
Featherston article on Thornton transfer had this to say about former Blue Devil E. Williams: "But Williams was still unhappy with his role. In an off-season meeting, he demanded an increased offensive role in 2010. K responded by helping facilitate his transfer to hometown Memphis, where "he could be close to his ailing grandmother.""

... Wait - what?

Was this common knowledge and I just missed it? I had always understood that Williams transferred because of serious family illness. See, e.g., http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3755334

I had also understood the ailing family member to be his mother, not a grandmother. Here's an article with quote from Elliot himself after the transfer saying his mother's illness was the reason for the transfer and also stating the transfer wasn't for basketball reasons. http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/01/duke_transfer_elliot_williams.html

So what gives? While I love Featherston's stuff, something fishy seems afoot here. Either Duke (including Coach K) and the relevant player were outright lying to news media and possibly the NCAA, or something is wrong with this article. Or maybe I'm just really misinformed. In any case unless there's some proof here, which I would love to see, this kind of feels like the sliming of a person's reputation. Which isn't my perception of Featherston as a writer, which makes me confused.

First of all, I think Feather did get the relative wrong, it was EW's mom who was sick. At least that is how I recall it.

As for whether the illness was an exaggeration (it was not a fabrication, she was sick) to facilitate a quicker transfer, I am sure I am not alone in saying that I have heard this rumor many times over the years (GGLC and I have discussed it in email on many occasions). It always struck me as very possible, but not necessarily the entire story or the whole truth. Feather is close to the program, but I'm not sure he is reporting it as the whole truth either.

regardless, I'm not sure it matters all that much to me whether the sole reason for the transfer was the sick mom or whether that was just a convenient excuse. The NCAA's rules are often Draconian when it comes to the treatment of athletes, especially with regards to scholarships and transfers. If... IF... K and Duke helped EW come up with an excuse that allowed him to transfer and play right away, I've not only got no problem with it, I applaud them for figuring out a way around a system that often seems designed to hurt the very players it is supposed to protect.

-Jason "I think there is a grey area between outright lie and complete truth that is where this lies... which makes it no different from 90% of what we hear from famous athletes and programs" Evans

GGLC
04-11-2016, 05:54 PM
Elliot William's mother died a few years ago due to complications from cancer. I understand she had recovered somewhat during his year at Memphis. I sincerely hope that he had every opportunity to spend quality time with her that year.

This is one instance where I see no gain in questioning the public story.

That's fine, and I agree completely with Jason E.'s post as well.

arnie
04-11-2016, 05:58 PM
Featherston article on Thornton transfer had this to say about former Blue Devil E. Williams: "But Williams was still unhappy with his role. In an off-season meeting, he demanded an increased offensive role in 2010. K responded by helping facilitate his transfer to hometown Memphis, where "he could be close to his ailing grandmother.""

... Wait - what?

Was this common knowledge and I just missed it? I had always understood that Williams transferred because of serious family illness. See, e.g., http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3755334

I had also understood the ailing family member to be his mother, not a grandmother. Here's an article with quote from Elliot himself after the transfer saying his mother's illness was the reason for the transfer and also stating the transfer wasn't for basketball reasons. http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/01/duke_transfer_elliot_williams.html

So what gives? While I love Featherston's stuff, something fishy seems afoot here. Either Duke (including Coach K) and the relevant player were outright lying to news media and possibly the NCAA, or something is wrong with this article. Or maybe I'm just really misinformed. In any case unless there's some proof here, which I would love to see, this kind of feels like the sliming of a person's reputation. Which isn't my perception of Featherston as a writer, which makes me confused.
After the transfer/sick parent reason was announced, Elliot listed schools he might transfer to. Kentucky was listed and my atlas didn't show Lexington KY as next to Memphis. Always assumed the transfer reason was a bit nebulous, and it's unfortunate the rules for siting out a year are inconsistent.

fuse
04-11-2016, 06:01 PM
Well written article which I enjoyed.
Nitpick for sure, only have one minor objection to what was written:

"The great majority of transfers in the K era... have been marginal players whose loss had little impact on the Duke program."

The point would be the same without the adjective marginal.

Des Esseintes
04-11-2016, 06:09 PM
It's pretty clear that the program is not unlike the CIA in that as time passes some material gets declassified. The formerly official story recedes, and the truer story is allowed an airing. The John Wall "recruitment" is another example of the story changing once it was no longer necessary to manage the optics.

bob blue devil
04-11-2016, 06:25 PM
The John Wall "recruitment" is another example of the story changing once it was no longer necessary to manage the optics.

do tell

Des Esseintes
04-11-2016, 06:51 PM
do tell

Duke was going through a relative trough in its recruiting at that time. John Wall was the major target remaining that spring and much was made of his big choice. The story was that we were a finalist along with UK and I think one other school. The thread for his recruitment on DBR was hundreds of pages long. But Wall never seriously considered Duke, and Duke never seriously pursued him. It was a mutually beneficial agreement to say otherwise. Even in the (very mild) winter of our recruiting, we were still a preeminent name in college basketball. Wall's Q rating gained by association with Duke and K. As for Duke, we looked hip for being in the final running with a topshelf recruit at a time when we'd been (unfairly) typecast as stodgy and behind the curve.

Within a few months, Duke signed Kyrie Irving. A few months after that, they won the 2010 title. So stuff worked out. The truth about the Duke-Wall relationship emerged in the wake of the championship, since the program no longer had a problem looking sclerotic.

jimsumner
04-11-2016, 06:59 PM
Well written article which I enjoyed.
Nitpick for sure, only have one minor objection to what was written:

"The great majority of transfers in the K era... have been marginal players whose loss had little impact on the Duke program."

The point would be the same without the adjective marginal.

I agree with Al that most of the transfers likely would not have helped Duke much, although we can never know for sure. And I agree with the general tenor of the article regarding Thornton and Duke.

But I do think he's a bit off on what they did at their new schools. Jamal Boykin averaged 12 and 7 as a redshirt senior at Cal, making second-team All-PAC-10 for a team that won an NCAAT game.

I would define that as successful.

Olek Czyz was third-team All-WAC, Crawford Palmer was second-team All-Ivy, while Andre Sweet and Eric Boateng started for NCAAT teams. Guys like Greg Wendt, Bill Jackman, Christian Ast and Joey Beard were solid players for mid-major programs. Palmer and Beard had long and successful careers in Europe, Palmer even representing France in the Olympics.

In many cases, this is why they left, in order to play more basketball than they would have played at Duke. But "few found success elsewhere" seems both unnecessarily dismissive and inaccurate.

Pghdukie
04-11-2016, 07:25 PM
G may have be an exception to this theory. He went on to play in the FF. Murphy, EW, etc didn't have that level of success. Murphy and MP3 came to the program at the same time. Look what happened.

sagegrouse
04-11-2016, 07:28 PM
Olek Czyz was third-team All-WAC, Crawford Palmer was second-team All-Ivy, while Andre Sweet and Eric Boateng started for NCAAT teams. Guys like Greg Wendt, Bill Jackman, Christian Ast and Joey Beard were solid players for mid-major programs. Palmer and Beard had long and successful careers in Europe, Palmer even representing France in the Olympics.

In many cases, this is why they left, in order to play more basketball than they would have played at Duke. But "few found success elsewhere" seems both unnecessarily dismissive and inaccurate.Crawford Palmer won a silver medal playing for France in 2000.

Edouble
04-11-2016, 08:00 PM
G may have be an exception to this theory. He went on to play in the FF. Murphy, EW, etc didn't have that level of success. Murphy and MP3 came to the program at the same time. Look what happened.

Gotta nitpick here... Silent G. We have another player who stayed in the family whose nickname is "G".

Pghdukie
04-11-2016, 08:38 PM
Gotta nitpick here... Silent G. We have another player who stayed in the family whose nickname is "G".

You are correct. I didn't clearly state my viewpoint. I stand humbled ! Thanks for your politeness.

CDu
04-11-2016, 08:44 PM
I always believed - though it certainly wasn't the official story - that Williams' transfer was first and foremost about playing time and role on the team (not unlike what appears to be the reason for Thornton's transfer). I suspect that the ailing mother angle was utilized to allow him to play immediately. So Williams transferred home and starred for the Tigers and got himself a 1st round pick the next summer.

I don't mean to suggest that the family situation didn't play into it, but I never fully bought it as the primary reason. Sounds like Featherston is kind of confirming that theory (or that he shares the same theory).

But, it doesn't matter now. The 2010 season worked out great for both parties.

FerryFor50
04-11-2016, 09:14 PM
I always believed - though it certainly wasn't the official story - that Williams' transfer was first and foremost about playing time and role on the team (not unlike what appears to be the reason for Thornton's transfer). I suspect that the ailing mother angle was utilized to allow him to play immediately. So Williams transferred home and starred for the Tigers and got himself a 1st round pick the next summer.

I don't mean to suggest that the family situation didn't play into it, but I never fully bought it as the primary reason. Sounds like Featherston is kind of confirming that theory (or that he shares the same theory).

But, it doesn't matter now. The 2010 season worked out great for both parties.

I thought the same, and even that K did Williams a solid by going with the angle to help him play sooner.

The end result wasn't just more playing time for Williams but also quicker to go pro and make some $$ to help pay for his mother's medical bills, I'd assume.

Kedsy
04-11-2016, 11:01 PM
My understanding has always been consistent with what Al writes -- specifically, that the primary motivator for Elliott Williams's transfer was unhappiness with playing time and his role on the team. I'm glad to see him say something about it, because it always bugged me a little that the "his transfer wasn't for basketball reasons" thing was still popularly accepted as unvarnished truth, and now that Al wrote about it, it's no longer rumormongering for me to say that I've long heard the same thing from sources I trust.

I also heard the story this way from a very good (pretty much unimpeachable) source.

johnb
04-12-2016, 12:04 AM
I found featherston's article refreshing in its candor. The sick mother is somewhat equivalent, in regards to transfer rationale, as the geographical distance explanation. By and large, both are bs.

elvis14
04-12-2016, 08:51 AM
When I think about E.Williams and D.Thornton transfers and the fact that Duke publicly stated in both cases that they left to be closer to family do I think I'm being lied to a little? Sure. Am I OK with that? Sure. I think that if Duke came out and was blatantly honest about these things they would be making the athlete look bad and they would be making themselves look bad as well (sour grapes). I think it's kind a nice way of handling it instead of throwing a kid under the bus. So, yeah, not only am I OK with a little deception, I appreciate it.

Kind of like when you tell a kid he's too good to be showboating at the end of a blowout but then tell reporters something else because what you said was between you and the kid and your intention isn't to take the spotlight away from that kids well earned victory :-)

monkey
04-12-2016, 11:12 AM
So ... replying to my own thread - it seems like a couple of folks on here at least had heard rumors or had sources that were saying something contrary to published reports at the time. Sadly, I wasn't in this position and this is a somewhat jarring way to be learning about it.

A few things:

(1) Duke basketball is not the CIA, so you shouldn't have to wait for things to become "declassified" - I agree with Jason that there are grey areas between outright lies complete truths ... if it is the case (and I still haven't seen proof that it is) that Eliot transferred either solely because of or perhaps more likely primarily because of playing time, I would argue (just my opinion) that they statements made by coach, program and player to the contrary (Elliot expressly denying them in the article I linked earlier, Duke omitted any reference to them) are a long way towards the end of the "lies" part of the scale, if not outright lies. Perhaps there was something of both reasons - I seem to recall a discussion of needing to get to the NBA fast to get insurance.

(2) Some of the arguments suggesting playing time drove this transfer - and I appreciate that I'm getting my information from message boards and fan sites and some of you have actual connections to the program - just don't make any sense to me:
(a) Duke didn't really have to say anything - but put out an alternative rationale. While you could argue that claiming the reason for transfer is family saves a black mark against the program, generally speaking Duke has had any number of transfers and has not felt the need to sugar coat reasons for transfer to avoid a black mark - for example, Burgess or even the current transfer. They could just wish the player well and leave it at that.
(b) By the end of that season Elliot Williams had a substantial role on the team and was expected to have an even greater role the next year. Here's his contributions at the end of the season, in which he started 11 of the last 12 games (source: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/logs.php?playerid=2735&season=2008-09):)


Date Opponent GS Min FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OR-DR TR PF Ast TO Blk Stl Pts
2/19 at St. John's * 31 5-6 1-2 0-0 0-2 2 3 0 3 0 0 11
2/22 WAKE FOREST * 32 5-8 0-1 1-3 0-1 1 4 1 1 0 4 11
2/25 at Maryland * 31 6-8 1-2 2-4 3-3 6 4 1 0 0 1 15
2/28 at Virginia Tech * 33 3-6 1-2 0-0 2-0 2 4 0 1 0 0 7
3/3 FLORIDA STATE 30 5-9 1-3 3-7 1-3 4 4 3 1 0 1 14
3/8 at North Carolina * 38 3-11 1-5 1-2 1-3 4 4 1 1 0 1 8
3/13 vs. Boston College * 36 1-4 0-1 0-0 4-4 8 4 1 2 0 2 2
3/14 vs. Maryland * 15 1-4 0-2 0-0 3-1 4 2 0 1 0 0 2
3/15 vs. Florida State * 13 0-2 0-0 0-0 0-1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0
3/19 vs. Binghamton * 25 5-9 1-3 0-1 1-3 4 4 4 0 0 0 11
3/21 vs. Texas * 22 1-3 0-0 0-2 1-3 4 1 0 0 0 1 2
3/26 vs. Villanova * 23 1-3 0-1 3-3 0-1 1 2

The points totals over the last several games are relatively low but he was starting and averaging significant minutes. If you add in the fact that the 2009-2010 team was predicted to be good but not dominant - at least without Elliot (it was ranked #9 in the AP preseason, #8 in coaches poll, with Kansas the runaway favorite that year), it seems like he had a reasonable expectation of significant minutes and opportunities to shine.

(3) If this was a falsehood, it's a pretty odious one - gaining support for a person by playing on peoples' sympathies for someone's <I> mother </I> having a critical illness. I'm surprised so many people here seem to think this is ok or something we should accept from Duke at the very least. Maybe folks have gotten inured to this sort of thing but I'm not. I had real sympathy for Elliot and a lot of people did. If this turns out to have been a lie, I don't think that's ok. If it was just an "exaggeration" - she was sick but this was not the driving force behind the events, I still don't think there was a need to say that this was the driving force (which is implied by providing the partial truth without the remainder).

(4) As to whether the writer should have put it in this article: I'm a bit torn here, but overall probably not in the form that it took (at least).

As a journalist, I expect him to write the truth as he knows it generally - so if he believes this to be the truth, I prefer that as opposed to him continuing what he believes to be a fabrication. But in doing so, and expressing a position contrary to what the program and the player have said, I would expect some level of proof, on the record sources and the like. The way it came across (to me) was more of a side swipe and unsubstantiated. Jason - I appreciate your views on any number of subjects, having read your opinions for years on these boards, but the way it was presented in the article did make it seem (to me) like this was the entire/real story and that the "official" story was a sham. It didn't seem like a particularly nuanced view.

Reilly
04-12-2016, 11:25 AM
I didn't realize EW suffered so many injuries:

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/a-fighting-spirit-elliot-williams-wasl/

throatybeard
04-12-2016, 12:21 PM
It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong on the merits of any one particular case.

What does matter: the terrible, terrible optics of Duke people immediately piling onto a kid the second he announces that he'll transfer.

COYS
04-12-2016, 12:37 PM
(3) If this was a falsehood, it's a pretty odious one - gaining support for a person by playing on peoples' sympathies for someone's <I> mother </I> having a critical illness. I'm surprised so many people here seem to think this is ok or something we should accept from Duke at the very least. Maybe folks have gotten inured to this sort of thing but I'm not. I had real sympathy for Elliot and a lot of people did. If this turns out to have been a lie, I don't think that's ok. If it was just an "exaggeration" - she was sick but this was not the driving force behind the events, I still don't think there was a need to say that this was the driving force (which is implied by providing the partial truth without the remainder).



What's the cutoff for his mother's illness being a good enough reason for the transfer? What if it were 50% of the reason? 30%? What if his mother's situation caused him to have an underlying unhappiness (I imagine it affected him in profound way) which made it harder for him to remain patient or content with his role at Duke? What if he wanted to be featured on offense so he could move the NBA and make some $$ faster so that his family would have more money? Even if his transfer had 0% to do with his mother, what parties are wronged by the pretense? No one. Only the NCAA and its draconian sit-out-a-year rule for transfers could claim any wrongdoing and even then, they are not injured in anyway. I'm actually surprised that anyone has a problem with how Duke announced his departure. Why does the dirty laundry of a 19 year-old kid who's not getting paid to play basketball need to be aired, especially when it only makes the kid look bad. I mean, should Duke provide only honest reasons for all transfers instead of simply wishing the kid well? Should Duke have said that Taylor King was undisciplined and uninterested in working hard to improve his game or that Mike G mistakenly believed himself to be a one and done talent and so is unhappy with his role in the offense?

Dukehky
04-12-2016, 12:45 PM
What's the cutoff for his mother's illness being a good enough reason for the transfer? What if it were 50% of the reason? 30%? What if his mother's situation caused him to have an underlying unhappiness (I imagine it affected him in profound way) which made it harder for him to remain patient or content with his role at Duke? What if he wanted to be featured on offense so he could move the NBA and make some $$ faster so that his family would have more money? Even if his transfer had 0% to do with his mother, what parties are wronged by the pretense? No one. Only the NCAA and its draconian sit-out-a-year rule for transfers could claim any wrongdoing and even then, they are not injured in anyway. I'm actually surprised that anyone has a problem with how Duke announced his departure. Why does the dirty laundry of a 19 year-old kid who's not getting paid to play basketball need to be aired, especially when it only makes the kid look bad. I mean, should Duke provide only honest reasons for all transfers instead of simply wishing the kid well? Should Duke have said that Taylor King was undisciplined and uninterested in working hard to improve his game or that Mike G mistakenly believed himself to be a one and done talent and so is unhappy with his role in the offense?

I think Elliott said he wanted to transfer, didn't say to to where. K said, if you want to go to Memphis, we can probably get you a hardship waiver.

toooskies
04-12-2016, 01:32 PM
I think Elliott said he wanted to transfer, didn't say to to where. K said, if you want to go to Memphis, we can probably get you a hardship waiver.

This is a pretty reasonable take on the situation. It's also possible that Elliot said, "My goal is to be drafted next year, if that can't happen here, I need to be closer to my mom." It's very likely that he was motivated both to get more playing time (to accelerate his career prospects) and to be closer to his mom. His desire for PT may have been driven by the need to provide care for his mother. The reliable sources referenced above may have just heard the fallout-- "He wasn't going to stay without more PT"-- even if the longer story was hardship-driven. Unless someone heard it directly from Elliot, I'm going to assume that none of the sources knew exactly what his motivations were.

I'm going to choose to believe that regardless of what happened, that situation worked out as well as it could for all involved (national championship for us, solid season and turning pro for Elliot), so let's not dredge up that detail. Everyone's a winner.

johnb
04-12-2016, 01:44 PM
It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong on the merits of any one particular case.

What does matter: the terrible, terrible optics of Duke people immediately piling onto a kid the second he announces that he'll transfer.

I totally agree, though I'd add that most of the posts have been completely supportive of him. Criticism has been focused on the uncle. Those who have had a problem with the transfer don't really have a problem with DT going to another school but are instead thinking that, all things being equal, a)he would be better off staying and b)we'd be better off if he stayed.

As someone whose connection to the team is primarily via the tv and dbr, I don't know underlying truths about the team, but I can think of hardly any situations where there might have been some addition by subtraction.

Having said that, I do like to remind myself that I'm an adult critiquing teenagers I've never met, which usually gives me pause.

UrinalCake
04-12-2016, 01:58 PM
Even if his transfer had 0% to do with his mother, what parties are wronged by the pretense? No one. Only the NCAA and its draconian sit-out-a-year rule for transfers could claim any wrongdoing and even then, they are not injured in anyway.

Maybe so, but the rules are still the rules. If Elliot's transfer was 100% about basketball and he and K decided to use the ailing mother as an excuse so he wouldn't have to sit out a year, I would imagine the NCAA would have a problem with that. Certainly the fans of other schools would. There have been plenty of other players across the country who wanted to transfer and who either did sit out a year, because those are the rules, or decided not to transfer because they didn't want to.

I agree that playing time shouldn't have been an issue for him. He had moved into a starting role and our incoming team only had two guards. (Someone remind me of the timing - did Elliot transfer before or after Gerald Henderson announced for the draft?) He would have gotten plenty of playing time and been a featured player on the team.

COYS
04-12-2016, 02:26 PM
Maybe so, but the rules are still the rules. If Elliot's transfer was 100% about basketball and he and K decided to use the ailing mother as an excuse so he wouldn't have to sit out a year, I would imagine the NCAA would have a problem with that. Certainly the fans of other schools would. There have been plenty of other players across the country who wanted to transfer and who either did sit out a year, because those are the rules, or decided not to transfer because they didn't want to.


I think we can all be certain that it wasn't a BAD thing that he got to be closer to his mom, so the probability that the transfer had absolutely nothing to do with his mom is probably nil. How are fans of other schools harmed? The only reason why fans of other schools would care is because they want to see Duke and K fall on their face, not because they actually care about Elliot Williams and his mother. In fact, I'm sure opposing fan basses delighted in seeing Elliot Williams, a promising player, transfer from Duke to leave the guard rotation almost decimated for the following season.

As for other players, I agree that they are wronged by the transfer rules, but it's the rules that are draconian. That Elliot Williams was one of a handful of players able to avoid sitting out a year for wanting to transfer to a school where his needs could be best met (whether those needs be being closer to his ailling mom, finding more playing time, getting to the NBA faster, or, as I think is almost certain, a combination of all of those and probably a few more) is more an indictment of the NCAA than it is a condemnation of Elliot.

In both the grand scheme of things and on a small scale, I really think this is more or less a non-issue. Even if someone somewhere were to be annoyed by this, it would mean that they are a person who is willing to use a 19-year old kid's decision to transfer to a school in his hometown that would allow him (whether intended or not) to spend more time with his gravely ill mother as a pawn to paint K in a bad light. That is pure IC and UK message board fodder. To literally everyone else on the planet, K's well wishes and support of Elliot's transfer and hardship waiver sound like simply the right thing to do. The only whispers I heard from opposing fan bases about the transfer were that the "real" reasons for Elliot's transfer demonstrated how the modern game had passed Coach K by (it had been five years since the 2004 Final Four, the staff had missed on a fair number of primary recruiting targets, and the 2010 team, from a layman's perspective, looked to be less talented than the 2009 team that had Elliot and Gerald).

Dukeford
04-12-2016, 10:13 PM
What was the deal way back then with Gminski's father?
I only remember an issue with John Harrell's father.

Bluedog
04-12-2016, 11:00 PM
After the transfer/sick parent reason was announced, Elliot listed schools he might transfer to. Kentucky was listed and my atlas didn't show Lexington KY as next to Memphis. Always assumed the transfer reason was a bit nebulous, and it's unfortunate the rules for siting out a year are inconsistent.

Well, you'll be glad to know the NCAA no longer allows for "exemptions" for sitting out a year after transferring due to "sick relatives" or other rationale -- they don't evaluate it on a case-by-case basis. Now, the ONLY way a basketball transfer doesn't have to sit out a year (and this is universal) is when somebody has graduated from a university and pursues a graduate degree at another school (with the caveat that the program at the grad school cannot be available at the undergrad school...).

Bay Area Duke Fan
04-12-2016, 11:49 PM
I thought the same, and even that K did Williams a solid by going with the angle to help him play sooner.

The end result wasn't just more playing time for Williams but also quicker to go pro and make some $$ to help pay for his mother's medical bills, I'd assume.

Don't they have ObamaCare in Tennessee?

DukieInKansas
04-13-2016, 01:07 AM
Don't they have ObamaCare in Tennessee?

Not back then.