Men's Lax - What the heck?

[Billy Dat]

After shaking off the March Madness experience, I attempted to engage with the D1 lacrosse team this weekend and tuned-in to watch the Duke v ND game. Duke lost late, 8-6, on the road to the #1 seeded Irish - no disgrace there, but in the process I came to discover how poorly the team has played this year despite our lofty preseason ranking and Tewaaraton finalist Myles Jones.

I am hoping one of our lax experts like burnspbesq can give us their take on what the heck has happened this year and, after yesterday's loss, are we pretty much dead in the water as far as making the tournament? If so, after that crazy run of titles and Final Fours, where is the program - just a regression to the elite-mean after all that lofty achievement or something else going on? I assume it's the former.

[sagegrouse]

After shaking off the March Madness experience, I attempted to engage with the D1 lacrosse team this weekend and tuned-in to watch the Duke v ND game. Duke lost late, 8-6, on the road to the #1 seeded Irish - no disgrace there, but in the process I came to discover how poorly the team has played this year despite our lofty preseason ranking and Tewaaraton finalist Myles Jones.

I am hoping one of our lax experts like burnspbesq can give us their take on what the heck has happened this year and, after yesterday's loss, are we pretty much dead in the water as far as making the tournament? If so, after that crazy run of titles and Final Fours, where is the program - just a regression to the elite-mean after all that lofty achievement or something else going on? I assume it's the former.

I probably know less about lacrosse than you and am still trying to figure out why the team that throws the ball out-of-bounds usually gets it back.

Duke is 7-6 for the season and prior to the loss at #2 Notre Dame was ranked ranked #12. We are 1-2 in the ACC, tied for third with Syracuse, and play Virginia (0-3) in Charlottesville this coming Sunday. It appears that the ACC Tournament is limited to the top four out of five schools, so a win against UVa would give us a spot.

The Men's NCAA tournament is a 16-team bracket with two preliminary games. I guess that makes it an 18-team bracket, hunh?? I expect, with any success going forward, Duke will make the NCAA's. In addition to the game against UVa and any ACC Tournament games, we have a game at Boston University on May 8, the same day as the tournament selection show.

I am sure I managed to confuse the issue.

[Billy Dat]

I probably know less about lacrosse than you and am still trying to figure out why the team that throws the ball out-of-bounds usually gets it back.

Duke is 7-6 for the season and prior to the loss at #2 Notre Dame was ranked ranked #12. We are 1-2 in the ACC, tied for third with Syracuse, and play Virginia (0-3) in Charlottesville this coming Sunday. It appears that the ACC Tournament is limited to the top four out of five schools, so a win against UVa would give us a spot.

The Men's NCAA tournament is a 16-team bracket with two preliminary games. I guess that makes it an 18-team bracket, hunh?? I expect, with any success going forward, Duke will make the NCAA's. In addition to the game against UVa and any ACC Tournament games, we have a game at Boston University on May 8, the same day as the tournament selection show.

I am sure I managed to confuse the issue.

I can at least let you know that the out-of-bounds thing only happens on a shot, and the rule there is that the closest team to the ball when it goes out of bounds after a shot gets the ball. That's why you often see players sprinting toward the ball as it head to the touch line with their sticks extended. It's also at least partially why it's good strategy to have a player on offense hanging around X, the spot behind the goal.

I am not sure they are as well positioned for the postseason as you say. I think UVA is a MUST win.

[Highlander]

I can at least let you know that the out-of-bounds thing only happens on a shot, and the rule there is that the closest team to the ball when it goes out of bounds after a shot gets the ball. That's why you often see players sprinting toward the ball as it head to the touch line with their sticks extended. It's also at least partially why it's good strategy to have a player on offense hanging around X, the spot behind the goal.

I am not sure they are as well positioned for the postseason as you say. I think UVA is a MUST win.

http://www.laxpower.com/update16/binmen/ncaa_d1.php

TEN automatic qualifier spots, so a top-15 ranking is definitely on the bubble for an 18 team tourney. We will need a strong finish to be assured of a spot in the NCAA tournament.

[MCFinARL]

I can at least let you know that the out-of-bounds thing only happens on a shot, and the rule there is that the closest team to the ball when it goes out of bounds after a shot gets the ball. That's why you often see players sprinting toward the ball as it head to the touch line with their sticks extended. It's also at least partially why it's good strategy to have a player on offense hanging around X, the spot behind the goal.

I am not sure they are as well positioned for the postseason as you say. I think UVA is a MUST win.

UVA is most definitely a must win, as is the final regular season against Marquette, which is a ranked team this year and no pushover. As commentators at the Duke ND game were pointing out, with the exception of Notre Dame, ACC teams have not done nearly as well this year against teams outside the conference as they usually do, so they can't expect all to make the tournament as they usually do.

I'm not as expert as someone like Burnspbesq, and I don't have any inside info (which might be enlightening here). What i do know is that Duke's defense has had some poor outings this year--though they played quite well yesterday after apparently focusing heavily on defense--and that the midfield has apparently suffered multiple injuries, as a result of which for several games we have not even been paying a full second midfield. So the first midfielders--Jones in particular--play tons of minutes and get very fatigued by the end of the game. This was clear yesterday when Jones made a couple of turnovers late in the game that he ordinarily would not make.

And it likely hurt us in some earlier games, like the Air Force game Duke lost at the very end after leading 8-3 in the third quarter. The Denver and Notre Dame losses, obviously, are respectable losses, and the OT loss to North Carolina, while frustrating, was probably not a big surprise in a shoot out in which it seemed clear that the last team that got the ball would probably win.

What I really can't explain is how Duke could have lost to Richmond, a team that lost to UVA 9-0 and UNC 15-6.

[burnspbesq]

Will try to post something with some depth in the next couple of days.

Duke may have to grab the ACC AQ in order to make the NCAA tournament, which means they have to get into the ACC Tournament, which means that the wood must be put to the Hoos next Sunday.

Lots of factors. The losses to Richmond and Air Force are killers, and the loss to Air Force was the direct result of a game-administration error by the officials that was reversible but was not reversed. AF was allowed a quick restart with two Duke defenders on the ground and apparently injured, and needless to say the Falcons scored on the ensuing 6-on-4 break. The Hahvahd loss is also hard to explain.

The closest thing to a signature win so far is Cuse, and that's not much.

The ACC, as a group, has come back to the field this year. Thirteen non-conference losses for the ACC is unheard of. The Ivy, Big East, and America East all have nultiple top ten teams. Navy is back. Rutgers is causing havoc. Villanova is legit. Brown and Yale are serious championship contenders. It's a crazy year.

[MCFinARL]

Will try to post something with some depth in the next couple of days.

Duke may have to grab the ACC AQ in order to make the NCAA tournament, which means they have to get into the ACC Tournament, which means that the wood must be put to the Hoos next Sunday.

Lots of factors. The losses to Richmond and Air Force are killers, and the loss to Air Force was the direct result of a game-administration error by the officials that was reversible but was not reversed. AF was allowed a quick restart with two Duke defenders on the ground and apparently injured, and needless to say the Falcons scored on the ensuing 6-on-4 break. The Hahvahd loss is also hard to explain.

The closest thing to a signature win so far is Cuse, and that's not much.

The ACC, as a group, has come back to the field this year. Thirteen non-conference losses for the ACC is unheard of. The Ivy, Big East, and America East all have nultiple top ten teams. Navy is back. Rutgers is causing havoc. Villanova is legit. Brown and Yale are serious championship contenders. It's a crazy year.

Hadn't realized there was an officials' error in the Air Force game. Still, how did Duke lose a 5-goal lead in the first place? Couldn't really tell what happened from reading the write-up later.

I suspect you are right about getting the AQ (though I'm not sure why the ACC still has an AQ since there are only 5 teams--was there a waiver?), but if they ended up in the non-tournament game against highly-ranked Brown and were able to beat them, could that be enough? (Suspecting not since, in order for that to happen, they would have to lose to the Wahoos first.)

[fuse]

A Jeckyll and Hyde season for sure.

All the pieces for a final four / national championship run appeared to be in place for this year.

Hard to understand from the outside why this season has been so inconsistent.

Not sure if it is new this year or not, the MLL draft happened during the season and I'm not sure if that didn't affect the team.

[MCFinARL]

A Jeckyll and Hyde season for sure.

All the pieces for a final four / national championship run appeared to be in place for this year.

Hard to understand from the outside why this season has been so inconsistent.

Not sure if it is new this year or not, the MLL draft happened during the season and I'm not sure if that didn't affect the team.

I think this is at least the second year the MLL draft has been during the season, could be a distraction but given the relatively small amount of money available from playing in MLL, I don't know that it should be a big issue. It's not even close to a full-time job.

[53n206]

I watched most of the games and we have been in the games until the very end, usually (Harvard). Many turnovers, offense really isn't clicking, defense has sometimes just not been on the field. Carolina had some plays that were just exceptional, but particularly so since we didn't defend. I don't know what it'll take to turn this team around. We expected so much of them. There are those years.

[chrishoke]

The loss to Richmond was inexplicable and a killer. The only way we make the tournament is to win the ACC tournament.

[Billy Dat]

Tangent alert - I thought lax fans would get a kick out of this ridiculous piece about the Albany squad, there is some NSFW language in here:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philadelphia/i-wouldnt-bring-your-girl-near-the-ualbany-lacrosse-team-if-i-were-you/

[burnspbesq]

Tangent alert - I thought lax fans would get a kick out of this ridiculous piece about the Albany squad, there is some NSFW language in here:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philadelphia/i-wouldnt-bring-your-girl-near-the-ualbany-lacrosse-team-if-i-were-you/

Oh, dear. Somebody spork this guy.

[ricks68]

Tangent alert - I thought lax fans would get a kick out of this ridiculous piece about the Albany squad, there is some NSFW language in here:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philadelphia/i-wouldnt-bring-your-girl-near-the-ualbany-lacrosse-team-if-i-were-you/

Wow! Neat stuff. Worth the look-see. Really cool.

I will try to supply the sporks if I am allowed.


ricks

[ricks68]

Wow! Neat stuff. Worth the look-see. Really cool.

I will try to supply the sporks if I am allowed.


ricks

Can't do the sporks for BD yet. Someone else needs to do it please. He deserves them IMHO.

ricks

[MCFinARL]

Can't do the sporks for BD yet. Someone else needs to do it please. He deserves them IMHO.

ricks

I can, and I did. Hilarious! Especially love the Eccles brothers. Did you catch that the younger one is intending to major in Medieval and Renaissance Studies? Maybe he wants to don a jerkin and get trashed at a lot of renfaires?

[Billy Dat]

I can, and I did. Hilarious! Especially love the Eccles brothers. Did you catch that the younger one is intending to major in Medieval and Renaissance Studies? Maybe he wants to don a jerkin and get trashed at a lot of renfaires?

I thought you guys would like that, it was very funny but the highlight was definitely the goalie going end to end in the NCAAs against Cornell last year, I had never seen that before (if you missed it, there is a video clip under his segment at the end of that piece). So many of those players had stringy strawberry blonde hair and gnarly beards, I thought I was looking at a Lynard Skynard cover band.

[Avvocato]

I thought you guys would like that, it was very funny but the highlight was definitely the goalie going end to end in the NCAAs against Cornell last year, I had never seen that before (if you missed it, there is a video clip under his segment at the end of that piece). So many of those players had stringy strawberry blonde hair and gnarly beards, I thought I was looking at a Lynard Skynard cover band.

Best part of it was the goalie spinning between two guys, bouncing off one dude with a big shoulder, doing a fake and scoring. Classic.

[jhmoss1812]

UVA hasn't won an ACC lacrosse game since beating UNC in the 2014 ACC showcase game #smh

[burnspbesq]

UVA hasn't won an ACC lacrosse game since beating UNC in the 2014 ACC showcase game #smh

Duke has won 15 of the last 16 games against UVa, with the one loss coming in the 2010 ACC Tournament.

[burnspbesq]

Best part of it was the goalie spinning between two guys, bouncing off one dude with a big shoulder, doing a fake and scoring. Classic.

Riorden played forward for the USA in last fall's World Indoor Championship.

[jhmoss1812]

Duke has won 15 of the last 16 games against UVa, with the one loss coming in the 2010 ACC Tournament.

I'm well aware :(

Most UVA fans are getting pretty restless with Dom....it might be time for a change at the helm.

UVA should always be a national power when it comes to lacrosse. Right now, we can't even make the ACC tournament.

[MCFinARL]

I'm well aware :(

Most UVA fans are getting pretty restless with Dom...it might be time for a change at the helm.

UVA should always be a national power when it comes to lacrosse. Right now, we can't even make the ACC tournament.

Agreed--but after this year I am thinking UVA is just the canary in the coal mine for the ACC. The days when those teams (along with former member Maryland), Hop, and and Ivy or two could dominate the sport are going. Denver, Notre Dame, Air Force, even Penn State and Marquette are fielding very competitive teams.

[jhmoss1812]

Agreed--but after this year I am thinking UVA is just the canary in the coal mine for the ACC. The days when those teams (along with former member Maryland), Hop, and and Ivy or two could dominate the sport are going. Denver, Notre Dame, Air Force, even Penn State and Marquette are fielding very competitive teams.

I agree with you. UVa, Syracuse, Princeton and Hopkins - the four programs that dominated the 90s and early 2000's - have a combined record of 21-21 right now.

[53n206]

Agreed--but after this year I am thinking UVA is just the canary in the coal mine for the ACC. The days when those teams (along with former member Maryland), Hop, and and Ivy or two could dominate the sport are going. Denver, Notre Dame, Air Force, even Penn State and Marquette are fielding very competitive teams.


Good for the sport. More geographic teams will result in substantially more high school athletes that Duke can choose from.

[MCFinARL]

I agree with you. UVa, Syracuse, Princeton and Hopkins - the four programs that dominated the 90s and early 2000's - have a combined record of 21-21 right now.


Good for the sport. More geographic teams will result in substantially more high school athletes that Duke can choose from.

Good for the sport--yes. But the Old Guard will need to make adjustments if they want to stay near the top. Of course, it's a testament to Duke's recent dominance, shaken this year, that I would even mention them in the same breath as the "Old Guard." Back in the day we used to go to the NCAA championships at Scott Stadium or, for many years, Byrd Stadium, and Duke was nowhere to be seen. The four teams jhmoss lists were wildly dominant, sharing among themselves every NCAA championship between 1978 and 2009 except for a few that went to some unmentionable Tobacco Road team.

[burnspbesq]

These are some of the issues this year:

(1) Lack of production from the second midfield. This has been an issue for three seasons now; we haven't had a reliable fourth midfield scorer since Josh Offit graduated. This year, the second midfield was going to be Smith, Gill, and Seau. They looked clueless for the first two games, looked like they were starting to figure it out against Denver--and then Gill and Seau went down with injuries. Then for a while it was Smith, J. Shaffer, and Carpenter, and all they could do was burn clock and stay out of the attack's way. In the ND game, we even saw Russell and Tripp Transou on the field with the game on the line. It's just a bad situation. Somebody needs to step up, and nobody has.

(2) Wildly inconsistent performances by the defense. There have been times when it's been really good (the Loyola game, the first half against Denver, and the first three quarters against ND), and times it's been really bad (UNC, Cuse, second half against Harvard). I don't mean to pick on Van de Ven, but he's as good an example as any: he's looked great at times, but then he gets stuck in a bad matchup and gets abused (Salcido and Perkovic). Kevin Corrigan was supposedly quoted as saying that our defense is great for the first 30 seconds of a possession, but can be broken down if you're patient. That sounds about right.

(3) Clearing has been an adventure all year. And we've committed tons of unforced turnovers.

(4) Fowler simply isn't as good as we thought he was going to be.

[53n206]

These are some of the issues this year:

(1) Lack of production from the second midfield. This has been an issue for three seasons now; we haven't had a reliable fourth midfield scorer since Josh Offit graduated. This year, the second midfield was going to be Smith, Gill, and Seau. They looked clueless for the first two games, looked like they were starting to figure it out against Denver--and then Gill and Seau went down with injuries. Then for a while it was Smith, J. Shaffer, and Carpenter, and all they could do was burn clock and stay out of the attack's way. In the ND game, we even saw Russell and Tripp Transou on the field with the game on the line. It's just a bad situation. Somebody needs to step up, and nobody has.

(2) Wildly inconsistent performances by the defense. There have been times when it's been really good (the Loyola game, the first half against Denver, and the first three quarters against ND), and times it's been really bad (UNC, Cuse, second half against Harvard). I don't mean to pick on Van de Ven, but he's as good an example as any: he's looked great at times, but then he gets stuck in a bad matchup and gets abused (Salcido and Perkovic). Kevin Corrigan was supposedly quoted as saying that our defense is great for the first 30 seconds of a possession, but can be broken down if you're patient. That sounds about right.

(3) Clearing has been an adventure all year. And we've committed tons of unforced turnovers.

(4) Fowler simply isn't as good as we thought he was going to be.

Agree with all of the above, particularly points 2 and 3 Tough to be a good goalie when the defense doesn't clog the lanes.

[Bob Green]

Duke 14, Virginia 8


Duke Men's Lacrosse ‏@Duke_MLAX · 54m54 minutes ago

That will do it! #Duke clinches spot in ACC Tourney with 14-8 victory over UVA. Class w/ 5 goals, Jones w/ 6 points. #goduke

[devilirium]

Tangent alert - I thought lax fans would get a kick out of this ridiculous piece about the Albany squad, there is some NSFW language in here:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philadelphia/i-wouldnt-bring-your-girl-near-the-ualbany-lacrosse-team-if-i-were-you/


I'm only sorry that I didn't see this sooner. So good. Thanks !

[JasonEvans]

Tangent alert - I thought lax fans would get a kick out of this ridiculous piece about the Albany squad, there is some NSFW language in here:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philadelphia/i-wouldnt-bring-your-girl-near-the-ualbany-lacrosse-team-if-i-were-you/

I know the author of this hysterical piece was riffing on the names of the players (as well as their ridiculous hair), but he missed an absolute gem. Did any of you catch the names of the brothers and sisters of Cougar Kirby?

Brothers - Logan, Matthew, and... wait for it... Thanakehrahne
Sisters - Seneca, Kanontienentha, Tekanenhorens, and Ionatarishon

So, Cougar isn't even in the top half of the most unusual names in his family.

Oh, and his brothers and sisters carry the following last names: Kirby, Crossman, Huber, and Brass.

There has got to be some crazy story in this family's names!

-Jason "Blaze is my favorite Lax goalie in the country" Evans

[gep]

I don't think I saw this on DBR yet... Duke Magazine on Coach Danowski...

http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/article/john-danowskis-mission

[BD80]

I know the author of this hysterical piece was riffing on the names of the players (as well as their ridiculous hair), but he missed an absolute gem. Did any of you catch the names of the brothers and sisters of Cougar Kirby?

Brothers - Logan, Matthew, and... wait for it... Thanakehrahne
Sisters - Seneca, Kanontienentha, Tekanenhorens, and Ionatarishon

So, Cougar isn't even in the top half of the most unusual names in his family. ...

Poor Matthew must get teased by his siblings ...

[MCFinARL]

I don't think I saw this on DBR yet... Duke Magazine on Coach Danowski...

http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/article/john-danowskis-mission

Very nice profile. Obviously, a Duke Magazine piece is going to accentuate the positive, but I think it is pretty easy to do that in this case. Danowski is the kind of coach a university can be really proud of, one who understands and values how athletics can be truly educational. He was uniquely qualified to come in after the 2006 mess and gain the trust of the team, but he didn't drop the emphasis on values and character once the crisis had passed.

As Duke fans we have been spoiled by this tremendous level of success on the field; if we experience a couple of down seasons I hope we will remember what Coach Danowski provides off the field.