What would it take for Grayson to graduate in 3 years?

[scottdude8]

Was thinking about this regarding possible jersey retirement for him, considering it is very possible he foregoes his senior season to go pro.

As far as I know (I graduated T'12), Duke students need 34 credits to graduate. For the typical student that works out to 4 classes a semester, with the other two credits allowed to be from AP, IB, or other credits taken in high school.

I'm not entirely sure what the course load is for basketball players, but I'm assuming they don't take a full four courses in the winter semester, but they might in the fall. And then I believe they typically take summer courses if they're here for summer practices... I think there are two summer semesters, and students usually only take one class per summer semester.

So unless Grayson has either A) been taking a full course load each semester along with summer classes, or B) taking more summer classes than is typical, it'd be pretty hard for him to graduate in 3 years given the current system, right? Does anyone know more about the basketball players' course load?

[unexpected]

Was thinking about this regarding possible jersey retirement for him, considering it is very possible he foregoes his senior season to go pro.

As far as I know (I graduated T'12), Duke students need 34 credits to graduate. For the typical student that works out to 4 classes a semester, with the other two credits allowed to be from AP, IB, or other credits taken in high school.

I'm not entirely sure what the course load is for basketball players, but I'm assuming they don't take a full four courses in the winter semester, but they might in the fall. And then I believe they typically take summer courses if they're here for summer practices... I think there are two summer semesters, and students usually only take one class per summer semester.

So unless Grayson has either A) been taking a full course load each semester along with summer classes, or B) taking more summer classes than is typical, it'd be pretty hard for him to graduate in 3 years given the current system, right? Does anyone know more about the basketball players' course load?

I graduated T'06. Ever since Jay Williams did it in three years, most Duke basketball players have been on a 3 year plan. As you said, they make it up in the summers. If you do two courses each summer session (which is very doable, I did it twice), then you can basically get ahead a semester a year.

Most come before their frosh year, that's 1 semester. Repeat before sophomore year, and that's two semesters, and then again before junior year, that's another semester - so you'd be ahead 1.5 years at that point.

You can slow it down by taking 1 class a summer (maybe before frosh year), but summer sessions are pretty straightfoward (and definitely the most free time I had at Duke - even I spent a lot of time working on my bball game during the summers!)

[dukelifer]

Was thinking about this regarding possible jersey retirement for him, considering it is very possible he foregoes his senior season to go pro.

As far as I know (I graduated T'12), Duke students need 34 credits to graduate. For the typical student that works out to 4 classes a semester, with the other two credits allowed to be from AP, IB, or other credits taken in high school.

I'm not entirely sure what the course load is for basketball players, but I'm assuming they don't take a full four courses in the winter semester, but they might in the fall. And then I believe they typically take summer courses if they're here for summer practices... I think there are two summer semesters, and students usually only take one class per summer semester.

So unless Grayson has either A) been taking a full course load each semester along with summer classes, or B) taking more summer classes than is typical, it'd be pretty hard for him to graduate in 3 years given the current system, right? Does anyone know more about the basketball players' course load?

Depends a lot on the major and what is available. Psychology does not have a lot of courses beyond the introductory that are offered in the summer. That makes it tough. Not sure why more athletes don's simply create their own major (Program I or II)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Anyone know Grayson's major? I heard physics, but I could very well be wrong.

And Grayson will graduate early. Whether he stays for another year and gets a masters is another question, but Grayson is academically very bright. I would assume he brought over high school credits as well (I mean, he did graduate summa cum laude).

[jimsumner]

It helps if you can bring in some AP credits from high school.

Allen had an AP diploma from high school. Not sure what that means. But it sounds like a head start to me.

[devildeac]

Anyone know Grayson's major? I heard physics, but I could very well be wrong.

And Grayson will graduate early. Whether he stays for another year and gets a masters is another question, but Grayson is academically very bright. I would assume he brought over high school credits as well (I mean, he did graduate summa cum laude).

I'm pretty sure I've read he's a psychology major.

[jimsumner]

I'm pretty sure I've read he's a psychology major.

For a sportswriter, psychology, physics, psychiatry, whatever. Pretty much the same thing. :)

[devildeac]

Anyone know Grayson's major? I heard physics, but I could very well be wrong.

And Grayson will graduate early. Whether he stays for another year and gets a masters is another question, but Grayson is academically very bright. I would assume he brought over high school credits as well (I mean, he did graduate summa cum laude).

Not quite summa (from his bio on GoDuke):


• Graduated Cum Laude from Providence School ... posted a 4.2 cumulative GPA

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, 3 years is doable. The major roadblock to jersey retirement won't be graduation but the requirement to either be NPOY, DPOY, or an NCAA record holder (e.g. Hurley with career assists). (Source for requirement: Duke's basketball office via this article about Gene Banks' non-retirement (http://www.phillytrib.com/sports/baseball/duke-should-retire-gene-banks-number/article_8d006174-1728-59f8-9c79-c5a15e22410a.html).)

For Grayson, that means he has to win NPOY next season since the other two achievements are probably out of reach.

With all the amazing surrounding talent, I'm not sure he can accumulate the numbers next season to win NPOY. For example, if Tatum is the leading scorer, that might already be enough to knock Allen out of contention even if he's an overall better player than Tatum.

Then again, Grayson's face will be plastered all over preseason magazines as he will be the posterboy for college basketball next season and receive more coverage during the season than any other player. That can have an effect when it comes time for voters to vote.

[devildeac]

It helps if you can bring in some AP credits from high school.

Allen had an AP diploma from high school. Not sure what that means. But it sounds like a head start to me.

I'll let the current/recent grads comment more intelligently here but each of our 2 younger kids had a ton of HS AP courses and some high AP exam scores and they didn't translate into many (if any) Duke credits when they enrolled, but did allow them to "place out" of a course or two, start with "more advanced" courses and got lower grades for their efforts (:rolleyes:). But, they each sure had good 4 year careers at Duke. But, then again, they were both a bit on the short and slow side and neither had a very good jumper, 40 yard dash time or verticals anything close to ~35". Of course, neither of them looked like cinder blocks either :rolleyes: .

[devildeac]

For a sportswriter, psychology, physics, psychiatry, whatever. Pretty much the same thing. :)

What about physiology?

6259

[wilson]

I'll let the current/recent grads comment more intelligently here but each of our 2 younger kids had a ton of HS AP courses and some high AP exam scores and they didn't translate into many (if any) Duke credits when they enrolled, but did allow them to "place out" of a course or two, start with "more advanced" courses and got lower grades for their efforts (:rolleyes:). But, they each sure had good 4 year careers at Duke. But, then again, they were both a bit on the short and slow side and neither had a very good jumper, 40 yard dash time or verticals anything close to ~35". Of course, neither of them looked like cinder blocks either :rolleyes: .This was my experience as well (I graduated in '04).
Like the mini-devildeacs, I really took advantage of a full four years on campus to improve my stats and performance. I could do quite a lot of 12-oz reps in one day by the time I graduated.

[BD80]

Anyone know Grayson's major? I heard physics, but I could very well be wrong. ...


devildeac: I'm pretty sure I've read he's a psychology major.

Mind over matter

[Bluedog]

It helps if you can bring in some AP credits from high school.

Allen had an AP diploma from high school. Not sure what that means. But it sounds like a head start to me.

Trinity's policy is to only allow two AP credits to count towards the 34 course requirement for those intending to graduate in four years. Otherwise, basically everybody in the entire student body would be coming in as a sophomore. However, for those graduating in 7 semesters, you can apply 2 additional "acceleration credits" (for a total of 4), and those trying to graduate in 6 semesters/3 years can apply an additional SIX credits (for a total of 8). It's usually the major requirements that are harder to fulfill though, so it still takes 4 years for most people (plus, who would want to leave Duke early :D).

So, yeah, if you come in with a lot of AP credits and take 3 summer courses each year like basketball players do, that's 17 credits outside of during the school year, so you'd only have to take an average of 2.8 courses a semester to graduate in 3 years! But that is considering underloading, so I'd think they definitely take at least 3 a semester. If they only take 1 course in each of the summer sessions, they'd need an average of 3.33 courses a semester to graduate in 3 years assuming the maximum number of AP credits. It's just extremely uncommon for somebody to have that many AP credits and then take that much summer school -- unheard of unless you're an athlete I'd imagine.

[devildeac]

Mind over matter

And...

if you don't mind, it doesn't matter...

[BeachBlueDevil]

Yeah, 3 years is doable. The major roadblock to jersey retirement won't be graduation but the requirement to either be NPOY, DPOY, or an NCAA record holder (e.g. Hurley with career assists). (Source for requirement: Duke's basketball office via this article about Gene Banks' non-retirement (http://www.phillytrib.com/sports/baseball/duke-should-retire-gene-banks-number/article_8d006174-1728-59f8-9c79-c5a15e22410a.html).)

For Grayson, that means he has to win NPOY next season since the other two achievements are probably out of reach.

With all the amazing surrounding talent, I'm not sure he can accumulate the numbers next season to win NPOY. For example, if Tatum is the leading scorer, that might already be enough to knock Allen out of contention even if he's an overall better player than Tatum.

Then again, Grayson's face will be plastered all over preseason magazines as he will be the posterboy for college basketball next season and receive more coverage during the season than any other player. That can have an effect when it comes time for voters to vote.

As much as K loves GA and talks about what he did in the '15 National Title game, I think an exception might be made here. Plus if Duke win another title next year I think he'd be ALMOST a shoe in to have his number in the rafters of Cameron.

Oh, he does have a record. Most trips on an opposing player in a season. ;)

[duke74]

And...

if you don't mind, it doesn't matter...

Often phrased as "If you don't have a mind, it doesn't matter." :)

[devildeac]

Often phrased as "If you don't have a mind, it doesn't matter." :)

That's me!!!

:o

[gep]

Yeah, 3 years is doable. The major roadblock to jersey retirement won't be graduation but the requirement to either be NPOY, DPOY, or an NCAA record holder (e.g. Hurley with career assists). (Source for requirement: Duke's basketball office via this article about Gene Banks' non-retirement (http://www.phillytrib.com/sports/baseball/duke-should-retire-gene-banks-number/article_8d006174-1728-59f8-9c79-c5a15e22410a.html).)

For Grayson, that means he has to win NPOY next season since the other two achievements are probably out of reach.

With all the amazing surrounding talent, I'm not sure he can accumulate the numbers next season to win NPOY. For example, if Tatum is the leading scorer, that might already be enough to knock Allen out of contention even if he's an overall better player than Tatum.

Then again, Grayson's face will be plastered all over preseason magazines as he will be the posterboy for college basketball next season and receive more coverage during the season than any other player. That can have an effect when it comes time for voters to vote.

Would first-team All-American count towards a "national honor"? What about BOTH All-American AND Academic All-American? :confused:

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Yeah, 3 years is doable. The major roadblock to jersey retirement won't be graduation but the requirement to either be NPOY, DPOY, or an NCAA record holder (e.g. Hurley with career assists). (Source for requirement: Duke's basketball office via this article about Gene Banks' non-retirement (http://www.phillytrib.com/sports/baseball/duke-should-retire-gene-banks-number/article_8d006174-1728-59f8-9c79-c5a15e22410a.html).)

For Grayson, that means he has to win NPOY next season since the other two achievements are probably out of reach.

Jeff Mullins (#44) did not satisfy that requirement. He was on two Final Four teams, but no NCAA championship team (although he was on the '64 gold medal Olympic team). He was ACC POY and a consensus second team All American in 1964.

[duke09hms]

Jeff Mullins (#44) did not satisfy that requirement. He was on two Final Four teams, but no NCAA championship team (although he was on the '64 gold medal Olympic team). He was ACC POY and a consensus second team All American in 1964.

Standards are arguably and (thankfully?) higher now since Coach K came aboard.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Standards are arguably and (thankfully?) higher now since Coach K came aboard.

Coach K was at Duke when Mullins' jersey was retired in 1994.

[YmoBeThere]

I hear Mullins was voted in by the Veterans committee.

[El_Diablo]

I hear Mullins was voted in by the Veterans committee.

He had a lot of superdelegates as well.

[BigWayne]

Trinity's policy is to only allow two AP credits to count towards the 34 course requirement for those intending to graduate in four years. Otherwise, basically everybody in the entire student body would be coming in as a sophomore. However, for those graduating in 7 semesters, you can apply 2 additional "acceleration credits" (for a total of 4), and those trying to graduate in 6 semesters/3 years can apply an additional SIX credits (for a total of 8). It's usually the major requirements that are harder to fulfill though, so it still takes 4 years for most people (plus, who would want to leave Duke early :D).

So, yeah, if you come in with a lot of AP credits and take 3 summer courses each year like basketball players do, that's 17 credits outside of during the school year, so you'd only have to take an average of 2.8 courses a semester to graduate in 3 years! But that is considering underloading, so I'd think they definitely take at least 3 a semester. If they only take 1 course in each of the summer sessions, they'd need an average of 3.33 courses a semester to graduate in 3 years assuming the maximum number of AP credits. It's just extremely uncommon for somebody to have that many AP credits and then take that much summer school -- unheard of unless you're an athlete I'd imagine.

Way more complicated now than back in the 80s. They let me get 8 AP credits then and there was no mention of a limit. MIT was the polar opposite which is one of the reasons I chose Duke over MIT.

I expect Grayson has some AP credit and has a fair bit of summer credit in his running totals already. It would not surprise me at all if he can graduate next spring.

[throatybeard]

He had a lot of superdelegates as well.

I, for one, need to hear from Swood.

[madscavenger]

Often phrased as "If you don't have a mind, it doesn't matter." :)

Lets not get nuclear about this, but Grayson CAN turn energy into matter. Physicists now "know" it works both ways, but Grayson apparently was (and still is) way ahead of them. i've always been surprised he could keep his weight down. Now, its no longer a mystery. In other words: really, the controversy surrounding mind over matter really doesn't matter.

Got it? i've gotta down a beer now, so i have enough energy to make it all the way to the loo (skip to my loo? - a little etymology humour for all y'all). Clear the runway Ethyl (you know, a person might take that the wrong way. Crap)!

[Jarhead]

Let me get this straight. You folks had four courses as your normal course loads? Wow! In my day the normal course load was measured in semester hours. Five courses was the norm each semester. Each course met three times giving 15 hours in the classroom each week. That was for a normal Liberal Arts curriculum. Early Science and Engineering courses started out with labs which added an additional semester hour. The labs normally met one afternoon a week for three hours. There was also a Physical Education requirement for everybody except Veterans. I was one of them.

The typical course load was 15 semester hours, and as we were told at frosh orientation, class preparation meant at least five hours of work each day, seven days a week -- or 50 hours of work and study each week. Varsity sports and recreation were an additional burden. So was sleep. ... and , oh yeah, a social life. How in the world did we all do that?

That was my life in 1949, and it was a wonderful world of good memories. Wouldn't you know that a new war would start the next year, ruining the whole thing. Ten years later, I got my AB degree from Duke

[BandAlum83]

There seem to be a lot of NPOY awards being thrown around these days. Are there any in particular that count toward the retirement qualification?

[Olympic Fan]

Just need to repeat something that comes up from time to time: There are NO hard and fast rules for jersey retirement. It's pretty much Coach K's call ... we try to guess the criteria based on who makes and who doesn't. The ONLY consistent criteria is that the honoree must have his degree (although a couple of guys where honored before they got the degree ... but they were on track to get a degree in a few weeks).

National player of the year is a big help, but Elton Brand was NPOY and he's not in the rafters (that would change if he gets his degree).

National defensive player of the year is also a reason to be honored, but Tommy Amaker, Steve Wojciechowski and Billy King have all won NDPOY (and have degrees) and aren't honored.

Consensus first-team All-America is a reason, but Bob Verga was first-team in 1967, Chris Carrawell was first-team in 2000, and Nolan Smith was first-team in 2011, but they didn't get honored, while Jeff Mullins was never better than second-team and was honored. Jabari Parker and Jahlil Okafor were first-team but didn't get their degrees.

Bobby Hurley was a first-team All-American in 1993, but he was honored for setting the NCAA assist record. JJ Redick was a NPOY and a two-time consensus first-team pick but also set the NCAA record for three pointers made. On the other hand, Kyle Singler set (and still holds) the NCAA record for career starts in winning games and he's not honored.

I repeat, there is no hard and fast criteria.

You have to understand the history of Duke's jersey retirements.

Duke retired Dick Groat's jersey on May 1, 1952 -- he was the consensus NPOY and a baseball All-American.

When Art Heyman finished in the spring of 1963, Vic Bubas wanted to retire his No. 25 jersey, but AD Eddie Cameron blocked it. Cameron believed that Groat should be the only player honored. He blocked Bubas from retiring any jersey.

That changed when Mike Gminski finished in the spring of 1980. Bill Foster (already out the door on the way to South Carolina) wanted G-man's No. 43 retired and new AD Tom Butters agreed. So Gminski became the second Duke athlete to have his jersey retired.

When Coach K asked Butters about Johnny Dawkins in 1986, Butters had no problems. So Dawkins, then Danny Ferry were honored in 1986 and 1989, respectively.

At that point, Bubas talked to K and argued that Heyman should be honored too. His No. 25 was retired on Mar. 4, 1990. Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill followed in 1992, 1993 and 1994. The next December (Dec. 6, 1994) they retired Mullins' No. 44. There was some pressure to retire Verga's number as the third great Bubas-era player, but it never got traction.

Note that Gminski, Dawkins, Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Hill and Battier all were honored a few weeks before they finished their degree work. That almost became a problem with Laettner -- he finished the spring semester of his senior year one course short of a degree and had to come back in summer school to get it. The last three guys honored -- Jason Williams, JJ Redick and Shelden Williams were not honored until the year after their graduation. I think that's the norm now.

Can Redick put his No. 3 jersey in the rafters? I think a national player of the year award next season would do it. Maybe a consensus first-team All-American year in which he leads Duke to a national title.

I think it's possible -- but the only thing he HAS to do is get his degree.

[BandAlum83]

Let me get this straight. You folks had four courses as your normal course loads? Wow! In my day the normal course load was measured in semester hours. Five courses was the norm each semester. Each course met three times giving 15 hours in the classroom each week. That was for a normal Liberal Arts curriculum. Early Science and Engineering courses started out with labs which added an additional semester hour. The labs normally met one afternoon a week for three hours. There was also a Physical Education requirement for everybody except Veterans. I was one of them.

The typical course load was 15 semester hours, and as we were told at frosh orientation, class preparation meant at least five hours of work each day, seven days a week -- or 50 hours of work and study each week. Varsity sports and recreation were an additional burden. So was sleep. ... and , oh yeah, a social life. How in the world did we all do that?

That was my life in 1949, and it was a wonderful world of good memories. Wouldn't you know that a new war would start the next year, ruining the whole thing. Ten years later, I got my AB degree from Duke

I graduated in 1983 and the requirement was 32 credits (4 classes * 8 semesters). There were additional requirements for minimum credit requirements across 3 divisions. IIRC, they were science/math, humanities, social science.

The structure made it easy to double major if going across divisions.I double majored in Poli Sci / econ, (I also had what would have been a history minor if they gave them) so kinda screwed myself when I came up short on humanities - not realizing until after junior year. I had to take summer courses before senior year and had overloads both semesters Senior year (5 courses) to load up on humanities (Religion). BTW, while english qualified for humanities, foreign language (Spanish) didn't.

So I think I ended up with 36 credits or there about.

Different world today, I'm sure.

[Dev11]

Can Redick put his No. 3 jersey in the rafters?

That would be greedy of JJ, he already has one!

Seriously, to the person above who said most players are on track for 3 year graduation, I don't know this for sure, but I'd guess that isn't true. Marshall was introduced this year as a graduate student. If that 3 year speculation was in place, we would have heard intros for grad students such as Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton, and Amite Jefferson recently, and we didn't. I expect that planning to graduate in 3 years is not the norm at all, although you could get on track for it with a little planning by sophomore year.

I wouldn't be surprised if the staff is having this conversation with Grayson, particularly given his comments in that video, but to say that they've been planning it all along doesn't seem right.

[jimsumner]

Just need to repeat something that comes up from time to time: There are NO hard and fast rules for jersey retirement. It's pretty much Coach K's call ... we try to guess the criteria based on who makes and who doesn't. The ONLY consistent criteria is that the honoree must have his degree (although a couple of guys where honored before they got the degree ... but they were on track to get a degree in a few weeks).

National player of the year is a big help, but Elton Brand was NPOY and he's not in the rafters (that would change if he gets his degree).

National defensive player of the year is also a reason to be honored, but Tommy Amaker, Steve Wojciechowski and Billy King have all won NDPOY (and have degrees) and aren't honored.

Consensus first-team All-America is a reason, but Bob Verga was first-team in 1967, Chris Carrawell was first-team in 2000, and Nolan Smith was first-team in 2011, but they didn't get honored, while Jeff Mullins was never better than second-team and was honored. Jabari Parker and Jahlil Okafor were first-team but didn't get their degrees.

Bobby Hurley was a first-team All-American in 1993, but he was honored for setting the NCAA assist record. JJ Redick was a NPOY and a two-time consensus first-team pick but also set the NCAA record for three pointers made. On the other hand, Kyle Singler set (and still holds) the NCAA record for career starts in winning games and he's not honored.

I repeat, there is no hard and fast criteria.

You have to understand the history of Duke's jersey retirements.

Duke retired Dick Groat's jersey on May 1, 1952 -- he was the consensus NPOY and a baseball All-American.

When Art Heyman finished in the spring of 1963, Vic Bubas wanted to retire his No. 25 jersey, but AD Eddie Cameron blocked it. Cameron believed that Groat should be the only player honored. He blocked Bubas from retiring any jersey.

That changed when Mike Gminski finished in the spring of 1980. Bill Foster (already out the door on the way to South Carolina) wanted G-man's No. 43 retired and new AD Tom Butters agreed. So Gminski became the second Duke athlete to have his jersey retired.

When Coach K asked Butters about Johnny Dawkins in 1986, Butters had no problems. So Dawkins, then Danny Ferry were honored in 1986 and 1989, respectively.

At that point, Bubas talked to K and argued that Heyman should be honored too. His No. 25 was retired on Mar. 4, 1990. Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill followed in 1992, 1993 and 1994. The next December (Dec. 6, 1994) they retired Mullins' No. 44. There was some pressure to retire Verga's number as the third great Bubas-era player, but it never got traction.

Note that Gminski, Dawkins, Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Hill and Battier all were honored a few weeks before they finished their degree work. That almost became a problem with Laettner -- he finished the spring semester of his senior year one course short of a degree and had to come back in summer school to get it. The last three guys honored -- Jason Williams, JJ Redick and Shelden Williams were not honored until the year after their graduation. I think that's the norm now.

Can Redick put his No. 3 jersey in the rafters? I think a national player of the year award next season would do it. Maybe a consensus first-team All-American year in which he leads Duke to a national title.

I think it's possible -- but the only thing he HAS to do is get his degree.

Excellent summary. Except for the whole Redick-Allen thingee.

Let me add that Duke didn't let Gminski know about his jersey retirement until right before his Senior Day game, against Clemson. He was more than a little flustered in the early going but did recover and lead Duke to an overtime win.

But after that Duke decided to dispense with the whole "SURPRISE" portion of the process.

[hackysack123]

Just need to repeat something that comes up from time to time: There are NO hard and fast rules for jersey retirement. It's pretty much Coach K's call ... we try to guess the criteria based on who makes and who doesn't. The ONLY consistent criteria is that the honoree must have his degree (although a couple of guys where honored before they got the degree ... but they were on track to get a degree in a few weeks).

National player of the year is a big help, but Elton Brand was NPOY and he's not in the rafters (that would change if he gets his degree).

National defensive player of the year is also a reason to be honored, but Tommy Amaker, Steve Wojciechowski and Billy King have all won NDPOY (and have degrees) and aren't honored.

Consensus first-team All-America is a reason, but Bob Verga was first-team in 1967, Chris Carrawell was first-team in 2000, and Nolan Smith was first-team in 2011, but they didn't get honored, while Jeff Mullins was never better than second-team and was honored. Jabari Parker and Jahlil Okafor were first-team but didn't get their degrees.

Bobby Hurley was a first-team All-American in 1993, but he was honored for setting the NCAA assist record. JJ Redick was a NPOY and a two-time consensus first-team pick but also set the NCAA record for three pointers made. On the other hand, Kyle Singler set (and still holds) the NCAA record for career starts in winning games and he's not honored.

I repeat, there is no hard and fast criteria.

You have to understand the history of Duke's jersey retirements.

Duke retired Dick Groat's jersey on May 1, 1952 -- he was the consensus NPOY and a baseball All-American.

When Art Heyman finished in the spring of 1963, Vic Bubas wanted to retire his No. 25 jersey, but AD Eddie Cameron blocked it. Cameron believed that Groat should be the only player honored. He blocked Bubas from retiring any jersey.

That changed when Mike Gminski finished in the spring of 1980. Bill Foster (already out the door on the way to South Carolina) wanted G-man's No. 43 retired and new AD Tom Butters agreed. So Gminski became the second Duke athlete to have his jersey retired.

When Coach K asked Butters about Johnny Dawkins in 1986, Butters had no problems. So Dawkins, then Danny Ferry were honored in 1986 and 1989, respectively.

At that point, Bubas talked to K and argued that Heyman should be honored too. His No. 25 was retired on Mar. 4, 1990. Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill followed in 1992, 1993 and 1994. The next December (Dec. 6, 1994) they retired Mullins' No. 44. There was some pressure to retire Verga's number as the third great Bubas-era player, but it never got traction.

Note that Gminski, Dawkins, Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Hill and Battier all were honored a few weeks before they finished their degree work. That almost became a problem with Laettner -- he finished the spring semester of his senior year one course short of a degree and had to come back in summer school to get it. The last three guys honored -- Jason Williams, JJ Redick and Shelden Williams were not honored until the year after their graduation. I think that's the norm now.

Can Redick put his No. 3 jersey in the rafters? I think a national player of the year award next season would do it. Maybe a consensus first-team All-American year in which he leads Duke to a national title.

I think it's possible -- but the only thing he HAS to do is get his degree.




Thanks for the breakdown & history. Great insight.

[Olympic Fan]

That would be greedy of JJ, he already has one!

Seriously, to the person above who said most players are on track for 3 year graduation, I don't know this for sure, but I'd guess that isn't true. Marshall was introduced this year as a graduate student. If that 3 year speculation was in place, we would have heard intros for grad students such as Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton, and Amite Jefferson recently, and we didn't. I expect that planning to graduate in 3 years is not the norm at all, although you could get on track for it with a little planning by sophomore year.

I wouldn't be surprised if the staff is having this conversation with Grayson, particularly given his comments in that video, but to say that they've been planning it all along doesn't seem right.

Doh! (in my best Homer Simpson voice) ... definitely meant Allen and not Redick there ...

As for the three year thing, I think the most common practice is to get 90 percent of your work done in three years so you can coast through your senior year (especially the second semester). Not hard to switch that to a three-year program is necessary, but not a lot of guys are in that position -- the majority want to go one-and-done or stay four years.

I will say that it happens in football more than basketball -- kids do 90-95 percent of their work in three years then coast through their last year (and often do grad work in their fifth year).

[-jk]

Doh! (in my best Homer Simpson voice) ... definitely meant Allen and not Redick there ...

As for the three year thing, I think the most common practice is to get 90 percent of your work done in three years so you can coast through your senior year (especially the second semester). Not hard to switch that to a three-year program is necessary, but not a lot of guys are in that position -- the majority want to go one-and-done or stay four years.

I will say that it happens in football more than basketball -- kids do 90-95 percent of their work in three years then coast through their last year (and often do grad work in their fifth year).

It's especially easy to graduate in three with the summer courses athletes take - starting before their frosh year.

-jk

[flyingdutchdevil]

Doh! (in my best Homer Simpson voice) ... definitely meant Allen and not Redick there ...

As for the three year thing, I think the most common practice is to get 90 percent of your work done in three years so you can coast through your senior year (especially the second semester). Not hard to switch that to a three-year program is necessary, but not a lot of guys are in that position -- the majority want to go one-and-done or stay four years.

I will say that it happens in football more than basketball -- kids do 90-95 percent of their work in three years then coast through their last year (and often do grad work in their fifth year).

Like Nolan Smith. 3 years and he got a undergrad degree. One year in this joke called the MMS program at Fuqua.

[BD80]

Like Nolan Smith. 3 years and he got a undergrad degree. One year in this joke called the MMS program at Fuqua.

I am tempted to inquire if that should read MRS degree, but I am certain I would get the business for so doing.