Grayson Returns!!!!

[Dukehky]

Grayson Allen will return for his junior year.

Announcement on Go Duke.

**** yeah!!!

[jimsumner]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=210867599

Note to rest of college basketball world.

Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

[Lar77]

Great news!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wow. Wow.

Color me surprised and estactic at the same time. Grayson is a stud. He didn't even think about going to the combine.

Love this kid. He really, really, really cares about academics. A true Dukie

[bluenorth]

Best news I've had all day. How long until next season begins?

[InSpades]

I <3 Grayson.

I had a good feeling about this one but it is still a great surprise.

If he increases his scoring by another 17 ppg next year he might set some sort of records!

Next season is going to be special.

[theschwartz]

We will be a force next year! October can't get here soon enough!

[JasonEvans]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=210867599

Note to rest of college basketball world.

Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

The beatdowns shall commence starting in November and continuing through April. There were numerous records set by the 1999 team for margin of victory that I expect Duke to challenge next season. WOW!

-Jason "so, so, so good to be a Dukie!!" Evans

[BLPOG]

Oh! Baby! Oh! Baby!

[westwall]

Grayson Allen will return for his junior year.

Announcement on Go Duke.

**** yeah!!!


As he should. Grayson will get better.

[Dukehky]

#WinterIsComing

[cspan37421]

The "Laettner Passes the Crown" article could now take on a second meaning.

If your skin is half as thick as Laettner's, you'll be fine, GA.

Welcome back.

[flyingdutchdevil]

The "Laettner Passes the Crown" article could now take on a second meaning.

If your skin is half as thick as Laettner's, you'll be fine, GA.

Welcome back.

He's got Amile to protect him. He'll be fine.

Plus, he's gonna graduate with a Duke degree. He'll be more than fine.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Outstanding news!!!!! I'm very surprised he didn't even want to test the waters, even if he was 1000% sure he'd come back. LGD! GTHc!

[TKG]

Have we dispatched someone to report on the Spring pick-up games, yet?

[dukebluesincebirth]

UNC loses the championship on a buzzer-beater...while we're waiting for the NCAA hammer to drop, Grayson announces he's returning!!!!!????? Somebody pinch me.

[devildeac]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=210867599

Note to rest of college basketball world.

Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.


The beatdowns shall commence starting in November and continuing through April. There were numerous records set by the 1999 team for margin of victory that I expect Duke to challenge next season. WOW!

-Jason "so, so, so good to be a Dukie!!" Evans

The beatings will continue until morale improves?

Let's not get too giddy. Yet.

[wsb3]

What a great week & it is only Wednesday.. I actually called this one right which brings my batting average up to just south of the Mendoza line. :)

[CDu]

Things are coming together swimmingly now. Returning fifth-year senior with All-ACC potential? Check. Awesome incoming class including 2 of the top 3 players and 3 of the top 12? Check. Infusion of athleticism from those freshmen? Check. Returning All-American and candidate for ACC PoY NPoY? Check.

I feel very spoiled that Allen felt it in his best interest to return to Duke. Let's hope it means great things for the season ahead!

[Scott_Partridge]

Allen, Thornton, Giles, Tatum, Jefferson

With Jackson, Kennard, Jones, and Jeter.

Should be a great season.

[OldPhiKap]

And Carolina fans didn't think their week could get any worse . . .

[OldPhiKap]

Allen, Thornton, Giles, Tatum, Jefferson

With Jackson, Kennard, Jones, and Jeter.

Should be a great season.

Plus maybe Bolden. {shudder}

[Doria]

Great news! While I'll never hold it against a guy who wants to go to the NBA (or test the waters), I'm glad Grayson felt confident enough in what he wants to make the opposite decision. Yay!

[jimsumner]

Let's don't tempt fate with any 40-0 T-shirts.

Can Duke make "Winter is Coming" the theme of 2016-'17? How litigious is George R.R. Martin? :)

[arnie]

UNC loses the championship on a buzzer-beater...while we're waiting for the NCAA hammer to drop, Grayson announces he's returning!!!!!????? Somebody pinch me.

Life is good and we at Duke are blessed.

[oldnavy]

Man, I thought Tuesday was the best day of the week!

What's next?? Bolden??

[Troublemaker]

Not surprised, but still thrilled!

Thanks Grayson!

[Atlanta Duke]

Great news for Duke basketball!

And for ESPN this is like having the actor who is the villain in the initial movie agreeing to sign up for the blockbuster sequel

[superdave]

Allen, Thornton, Giles, Tatum, Jefferson

With Jackson, Kennard, Jones, and Jeter.

Should be a great season.

Are we still in TBD status on a few of these?

[DukeFanSince1990]

I will be insufferable to UNC fans if Grayson wins another ring next year. Ain't gonna to lie.

[redick4pres]

I am somewhat surprised and not surprised all at the same time. Mostly though, I'm just happy as hell to have such a great young man and basketball player wearing the Duke blue for another year. I'm so pumped about next year's team that I can barely sit still. Holy cow! :cool:

[jimsumner]

Are we still in TBD status on a few of these?

Next season's roster is not finalized. It should be finalized this month.

[BeachBlueDevil]

I don't care about this team going undefeated, winning the ACC regular season or tournament. I care about another title and this team has more than the ability to do that next season.

Go Duke and welcome back GA!

Oh and can we get a schedule release already? I'm trying to see a couple games.

[MChambers]

Have we dispatched someone to report on the Spring pick-up games, yet?

Heard Grayson dunked over both Horvath and P. Davidson on the same play.

[Troublemaker]

Are we still in TBD status on a few of these?

By definition, I would say. No official announcements.

[Doria]

I don't care about this team going undefeated, winning the ACC regular season or tournament. I care about another title and this team has more than the ability to do that next season.

Go Duke and welcome back GA!

Oh and can we get a schedule release already? I'm trying to see a couple games.

I don't care about going undefeated (mostly because I think you learn from losses), but I definitely care about ACC titles. That isn't, hopefully, mutually exclusive with also caring about another NCAAT. But if we're making lists, I want everything I can have!

[BeachBlueDevil]

I don't care about going undefeated (mostly because I think you learn from losses), but I definitely care about ACC titles. That isn't, hopefully, mutually exclusive with also caring about another NCAAT. But if we're making lists, I want everything I can have!

I want everything too, but I'm tempering expectations.

If I don't temper them, I get way more invested than I already am.

[DukeWarhead]

Trying not to get too giddy, but I'm thinking that the bench will get a fair amount of playing time next year, with all the 30+ point leads by halftime and all...;)
Lloyd Dobbler would tell me that I Must Chill, but I can't.
Very cool, Grayson. Very very cool, man.

[DukieInKansas]

Great news! Nothing better than an excellent student-athlete deciding to stay in school for at least another year.

[Doria]

I also love the fact that we're going to be deep enough at positions to have real practices. Should help a lot, especially preparing for specific defenses we'll be likely to face.

[Troublemaker]

I don't care about going undefeated (mostly because I think you learn from losses), but I definitely care about ACC titles. That isn't, hopefully, mutually exclusive with also caring about another NCAAT. But if we're making lists, I want everything I can have!

Re: ACC titles, it's been awhile for us. Hoping to collect at least one if not both next season.

[fuse]

I was just discussing with my good friend devildeac over the weekend that I hoped we'd see another 1999 platoon style of play where practice is harder than games under K.

Maybe next season is the year.

[Henderson]

The underwear laundries in Chappaheeya will be busy tonight. "What do you mean that stain in my boxers won't come out?"

Woot.

I'm really happy that this is what Grayson Allen wants to do. Happy for him and us.

[Olympic Fan]

Great news ...

I hope people will judge Grayson's junior year fairly. I do expect his scoring average to go down on a more balanced team, but I will be looking to see his efficiency go up (although he was pretty damn efficient last season). Knowing the kind of worker he is, I expect him to be a better player than he was last season when he was one of the 10 best players in college basketball.

Question: Is he the top returning player in college basketball? Does he have any challengers?

[dukelifer]

Great news ...

I hope people will judge Grayson's junior year fairly. I do expect his scoring average to go down on a more balanced team, but I will be looking to see his efficiency go up (although he was pretty damn efficient last season). Knowing the kind of worker he is, I expect him to be a better player than he was last season when he was one of the 10 best players in college basketball.

Question: Is he the top returning player in college basketball? Does he have any challengers?

Allen will likely develop as a leader next year. Great news for Duke. My daughter will be very happy ;)

[OZ]

Let's not get too giddy. Yet.


With all due respect, I am going to be GIDDY!

[The Gordog]

:D
I want everything too, but I'm tempering expectations.

If I don't temper them, I get way more invested than I already am.

I am so invested I'm buying on margin. :cool:

Just wow. I had convinced myself he would go because he may get fewer touches than he did this year. But I am so happy to have such a fine young man represent Duke again.

[dukelifer]

Heard Grayson dunked over both Horvath and P. Davidson on the same play.

Now you are just being silly. Nobody dunks on Davidson. Not possible.

[killerleft]

Did somebody slip me some 'window pane'? Some 'blotter'? 'Cause I'm...

Trippin'!:)

Go Grayson and, as always, GO DUKE!

[Billy Dat]

I am trying to think about what other situation this most compares to...I keep thinking about Jason Williams but even though he was NPOY and we'd just won a title, I don't think, based on the environment of the time, it was such a huge surprise that he came back.

I guess this isn't a huge surprise, but it is a surprise. I honestly thought the hatred tsunami would be the thing that sent him packing and that otherwise he'd be back because he does seem to really love the school above and beyond his role as a star of the team and the professional launch pad it provides. I hope the young pups - Tatum, Giles, Jackson et al realize what a deflector shield he'll be for them and not resent the attention he's going to get.

Man - we are loaded - let's get it on!!!!!!

[luburch]

Already one of my favorite Duke players of all time, he may be able to climb the ladder just a little more. Happy he feels it is in his best interest to spend another season at Duke.

[OldPhiKap]

I am trying to think about what other situation this most compares to...I keep thinking about Jason Williams but even though he was NPOY and we'd just won a title, I don't think, based on the environment of the time, it was such a huge surprise that he came back.

I guess this isn't a huge surprise, but it is a surprise. I honestly thought the hatred tsunami would be the thing that sent him packing and that otherwise he'd be back because he does seem to really love the school above and beyond his role as a star of the team and the professional launch pad it provides. I hope the young pups - Tatum, Giles, Jackson et al realize what a deflector shield he'll be for them and not resent the attention he's going to get.

Man - we are loaded - let's get it on!!!!!!

Kyle Singler coming back was a huge surprise, at least to me. And a very welcomed one.

[Steven43]

UNC loses the championship on a buzzer-beater...while we're waiting for the NCAA hammer to drop, Grayson announces he's returning!!!!!????? Somebody pinch me.

Could not have said it better.

Though I feel just a tad shameful to admit it, the feeling I got (and still have) from UNC losing the National Championship--especially in the excruciatingly painful way they did, and as the favorite to win it all from the beginning of the season, no less--was a close second to the feeling I had (and still have) when Duke won the National Championship in 2015.

Grayson Allen returning for another season is a very close third. I really like this kid--his game, his attitude, just him in general, both on and off the court. I was a believer in his game from the first time I saw him play at Duke, and I have defended him at every opportunity against the unwarranted attacks that came his way this season.

I have lost count of the many arguments in his defense in which I have engaged--mostly with UNC fans--during the past six months. All I know is they would LOVE to have Grayson Allen suiting up for them in hideous Carolina blue, though they would never be honest enough to admit it.

[Tom B.]

If you're not already excited about Grayson returning, watch this video.

I am so going to love watching him play for another year.

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=5257304&db_oem_id=4200

[duke blue brewcrew]

Did somebody slip me some 'window pane'? Some 'blotter'? 'Cause I'm...

TRIPPING;)!

Go Grayson and, as always, GO DUKE!

NICE! Stoked Grayson is coming back! I'm ready for the rest of recruiting and the roster to be finalized so we can finally see what's what

[CDu]

Great news ...

I hope people will judge Grayson's junior year fairly. I do expect his scoring average to go down on a more balanced team, but I will be looking to see his efficiency go up (although he was pretty damn efficient last season). Knowing the kind of worker he is, I expect him to be a better player than he was last season when he was one of the 10 best players in college basketball.

Question: Is he the top returning player in college basketball? Does he have any challengers?

The other consensus All-Americans were: Valentine (senior); Hield (senior); Brogdon (senior); Johnson (senior); Ellis (senior); Ulis (sophomore); Poeltl (sophomore); Ferrell (senior); Niang (senior); Simmons (freshman); Dunn (junior); Uthoff (senior). I don't think anybody else made multiple lists (maybe Jamal Murray - freshman).

Of the non-seniors, Poeltl, Simmons, and Murray are all but assured to be going pro; Dunn is likely to go pro; Ulis is unknown.

So, yeah, I'd feel comfortable in saying that Allen is the best returning player in college basketball for next season.

[jv001]

I am trying to think about what other situation this most compares to...I keep thinking about Jason Williams but even though he was NPOY and we'd just won a title, I don't think, based on the environment of the time, it was such a huge surprise that he came back.

I guess this isn't a huge surprise, but it is a surprise. I honestly thought the hatred tsunami would be the thing that sent him packing and that otherwise he'd be back because he does seem to really love the school above and beyond his role as a star of the team and the professional launch pad it provides. I hope the young pups - Tatum, Giles, Jackson et al realize what a deflector shield he'll be for them and not resent the attention he's going to get.

Man - we are loaded - let's get it on!!!!!!

I think Grayson loves the school and he really loves Coach K. The way Coach supported him this year must have meant a lot to Grayson. Although Coach K was hammered by the media, I'm glad he stuck up for his star player. Grayson will be a role model in how to play the game hard. When the new guys see him going to the floor for loose balls both in games and in practice sessions, they will have to be impressed. Oh, I'm loving this team and they haven't stepped on K-Court yet. GoDuke!

[gurufrisbee]

Do we have a planned DBR get together in Phoenix for April 2017?

[Troublemaker]

I am trying to think about what other situation this most compares to...I keep thinking about Jason Williams but even though he was NPOY and we'd just won a title, I don't think, based on the environment of the time, it was such a huge surprise that he came back.

I guess this isn't a huge surprise, but it is a surprise. I honestly thought the hatred tsunami would be the thing that sent him packing and that otherwise he'd be back because he does seem to really love the school above and beyond his role as a star of the team and the professional launch pad it provides. I hope the young pups - Tatum, Giles, Jackson et al realize what a deflector shield he'll be for them and not resent the attention he's going to get.

Man - we are loaded - let's get it on!!!!!!

The difference is JWill was passing on a top-5 draft spot (which he eventually landed the following year) while Grayson is a late first-rounder.

I mean, we've read stories about Grayson growing up a huge Duke fan. How his high school coach laughed at him for thinking he'd be able to play for Duke. How Grayson scrambled to play in duct-taped sneakers in his one shot to impress Nate James during recruiting season. To me, it just felt like we had a good chance to have him one more year.

[heyman25]

Best news of April.Lot of gloom and doom in the news.

Thanks Grayson.Duke will be definitely be a contender for the Final 4 and the championship.

No reason for a rotation of 7 or 8. It should be like the Golden State Warriors.9 or 10.
Allen
Tatum
Giles
Jackson
Jefferson

Kennard
Thornton
Jones
Jeter
Robinson

Bolden might still come too

[JasonEvans]

Question: Is he the top returning player in college basketball? Does he have any challengers?

Has Kris Dunn formally announced yet? He's a certain lottery pick and there have been reports he would declare, but I don't think he has officially said yet. Same with Domantas Sabonis and Jakob Poeltl, though I'm sure Sabonis is not better than Allen. Poeltl is debatable. Regardless, they are all expected to declare.

I would think the other top players next season -- pre-season expectations and not counting freshmen -- would be Josh Hart (Villanova) and Dillon Brooks (Oregon). I'd say those two, along with Grayson, are locks to be pre-season All-Americans. Beyond that, it is hard to say.

NOTE -ESPN just published this list (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/15124959/first-look-top-25-players-2016-2017-college-basketball-season)of the 25 top players in college ball next season. It has Giles #1, Allen #2, Isaiah Whitehead of Seton Hall #3 (I think he is going into the draft and I'm not a fan of his efficiency, he shoots too much), Tatum #4, and Dillon Brooks #5.

-Jason "yup, ESPN says Duke will have 3 of the top 4 players in college basketball next season... and that doesn't include double-double machine Amile Jefferson... GGLC!!" Evans

[trinity92]

Just read this on the UK site. spared you the trouble of sifting through all the typical K and GA comments to bring you this gem:

I'm sick of this crap of losing all our guys while everyone else keeps theirs. Everyone is benefiting except the fans. UK gets tons of money, Cal gets his "satisfaction" of helping create millionaires and the players get rich while using UK to that money. We get 1 title in 7 years. Sounds like BBN gets the ish end of the stick on that deal.

I'm not even looking forward to next year like I was a few months ago. I not only have to hope we get lucky and get a title but I now have to hope Duke gets beat in the tournament before they would play us.

But I guess I'll have the sweet memories of sending half our team to the draft like every other year to keep me warm at night.

Man this has been a good week!

[subzero02]

Let's don't tempt fate with any 40-0 T-shirts.

Can Duke make "Winter is Coming" the theme of 2016-'17? How litigious is George R.R. Martin? :)

UVA fans already accuse Grayson of being a white walker...

[wsb3]

Great news ...

I hope people will judge Grayson's junior year fairly. I do expect his scoring average to go down on a more balanced team, but I will be looking to see his efficiency go up (although he was pretty damn efficient last season). Knowing the kind of worker he is, I expect him to be a better player than he was last season when he was one of the 10 best players in college basketball.

Question: Is he the top returning player in college basketball? Does he have any challengers?

Very good post. I would be shocked if the scoring does not come down but he also is not going to be asked to play 40 minutes every night. He will have more energy at the end of games. More efficient play in every way is what I see coming. Dang this is a good week.

[kAzE]

F YEAH. Welcome back, Grayson. Time to get back at the college basketball world for all the drama from last season. Take no prisoners!!

[whereinthehellami]

Incredible news. Quite an impressive group of upperclassmen this team will have. Practices will no doubht be intense. If everyone buys into their roles set forth by Coach K this is a team with very few holes.

Gonna be a fun off-season. Thanks Grayson!

#winteriscoming

[cato]

Let's don't tempt fate with any 40-0 T-shirts.

Can Duke make "Winter is Coming" the theme of 2016-'17? How litigious is George R.R. Martin? :)

The real question is whether he could finish the complaint before the statute of limitations runs.

[hudlow]

If THE HAMMER could fall by Friday, this could be one of the best weeks EVER!!!!!

[brevity]

Question: Is he the top returning player in college basketball? Does he have any challengers?


Of the non-seniors, Poeltl, Simmons, and Murray are all but assured to be going pro; Dunn is likely to go pro; Ulis is unknown.


Has Kris Dunn formally announced yet?

Kris Dunn has declared (https://twitter.com/kc1nyk/status/713576105270226944) and hired an agent. Jakob Poeltl will soon hire an agent. From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/report-henry-ellenson-to-leave-marquette-for-nba-b99699476z1-374434451.html) and Adrian Wojnarowski (https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/716329007931850752):


Of the underclassmen expected to go in the top 10, LSU's Ben Simmons and Providence's Kris Dunn have already signed agents and Kentucky's Jamal Murray has expressed his intent to do so. Utah's Jakob Poeltl has been reported to be in talks with agents as well.


Two top-10 picks soon to announce for Draft - Jakob Poeltl and Henry Ellenson -- deeply involved in agent meetings, getting closer to hires.

So, for the moment, it's either Grayson Allen or Tyler Ulis. (And this unofficial Kentucky Twitter account (https://twitter.com/UKBasketbalI/status/717753698978570240) has Ulis declaring.)

[porkpa]

I hope and pray that Coach K utilizes his bench. It promises to possibly be the best one he has ever had.

[Tripping William]

Did somebody slip me some 'window pane'? Some 'blotter'? 'Cause I'm...

Trippin'!:)

Go Grayson and, as always, GO DUKE!

Me, too. :o

[grossbus]

The real question is whether he could finish the complaint before the statute of limitations runs.

Excellent!

[jv001]

Best news of April.Lot of gloom and doom in the news.

Thanks Grayson.Duke will be definitely be a contender for the Final 4 and the championship.

No reason for a rotation of 7 or 8. It should be like the Golden State Warriors.9 or 10.
Allen
Tatum
Giles
Jackson
Jefferson

Kennard
Thornton
Jones
Jeter
Robinson

Bolden might still come too

I believe you're leaving out Jack White and Javin DeLaurier. They will be ahead of Robinson unless he grows about 4 inches over the summer. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

Do we have a planned DBR get together in Phoenix for April 2017?

We can all plan it at the bowl game.


Oh, and 40-0 tee-shirts are for those not committed enough to get the 40-0 tattoo. Just putting that out there early.

[dukelifer]

I believe you're leaving out Jack White and Javin DeLaurier. They will be ahead of Robinson unless he grows about 4 inches over the summer. GoDuke!

Obi?

[madscavenger]

He's got Amile to protect him. He'll be fine.

Plus, he's gonna graduate with a Duke degree. He'll be more than fine.


Another great year and a degree, he'll be more than way fine, i.e. up in the rafters fine.

[moonpie23]

made my day

[Steven43]

I am trying to think about what other situation this most compares to...I keep thinking about Jason Williams but even though he was NPOY and we'd just won a title, I don't think, based on the environment of the time, it was such a huge surprise that he came back
Sorry to go off topic, but I think Jason's recent admission that he believes he should not have returned to Duke for his junior season was quite illuminating.

Could it be he was feeling that way DURING his junior year and not just in retrospect? And could that negative feeling, and possible resultant lack of focus, have been a major factor in him sometimes disappearing for long stretches during games, such as the Indiana Round of 16 game? I do wonder about that.

[missfinch]

Do we have a planned DBR get together in Phoenix for April 2017?

My house :cool:

[Billy Dat]

Another great year and a degree, he'll be more than way fine, i.e. up in the rafters fine.

I think I've seen this point about jersey retirement made elsewhere, but I was thinking about it too. The one-and-done era may have permanently closed the doors on qualifying for number retirement. As a returning All American who played a prominent role in a National Championship game, Grayson will have a shot if he has a POY type season, especially if the team can win another title. If he focuses on team goals as he is sure to do, perhaps he rides the wave all the way to the rafters.

[azzefkram]

This is really great news. I am on the fence as to whether I am surprised or not, but I am definitely really pleased he decided to return.

[Nugget]

The difference is JWill was passing on a top-5 draft spot (which he eventually landed the following year) while Grayson is a late first-rounder.

I mean, we've read stories about Grayson growing up a huge Duke fan. How his high school coach laughed at him for thinking he'd be able to play for Duke. How Grayson scrambled to play in duct-taped sneakers in his one shot to impress Nate James during recruiting season. To me, it just felt like we had a good chance to have him one more year.

It's probably more like Shane coming back for his Senior year after he had his breakout Junior season leading the 1999-2000 team, and would have been a fringe first-rounder had he come out then.

[ncexnyc]

What a major mood swing for me these past few days.

Saturday night was a bummer watching the heels roll the Cuze.

Monday I had to return to work and listen to those silly hole fans talk smack all day long and it was really bad when they screamed with joy when Paige hit that miracle shot.

However, things rapidly turned around when they let out an equally chilling scream when Jenkins answered Paige's shot.

Tuesday was pure bliss and now today things only get better.

[BandAlum83]

Incredible news. Quite an impressive group of upperclassmen this team will have. Practices will no doubht be intense. If everyone buys into their roles set forth by Coach K this is a team with very few holes.

Gonna be a fun off-season. Thanks Grayson!

#winteriscoming

BRING IT ON!!

Come on, name 3...no 2.

Awe, F it, name 1!!!

[BluDvlsN1]

The beatings will continue until morale improves?

Let's not get too giddy. Yet.


DD, can't spork your post, this will have to do.


Great news.
Great decision for Grayson, personally.
Great news for the Team/program. secondarily.

His leadership and example can only help the adjustment of the incoming class.

Love the optimism, maybe now that the initial reaction has set in
a more "cautiously optimistic" approach is in order.

[BD80]

... I do expect his scoring average to go down on a more balanced team, but I will be looking to see his efficiency go up (although he was pretty damn efficient last season). Knowing the kind of worker he is, I expect him to be a better player than he was last season when he was one of the 10 best players in college basketball. ...

What if we just score more points so he can keep his average? Tangential point, if Grayson gets three feet above the rim on a dunk, does that count as a three foot shot?


... -Jason "yup, ESPN says Duke will have 3 of the top 4 players in college basketball next season... and that doesn't include double-double machine Amile Jefferson... GGLC!!" Evans

Nor Jackson, who may be the surprise of the class.

[MCFinARL]

Great news ...

I hope people will judge Grayson's junior year fairly. I do expect his scoring average to go down on a more balanced team, but I will be looking to see his efficiency go up (although he was pretty damn efficient last season). Knowing the kind of worker he is, I expect him to be a better player than he was last season when he was one of the 10 best players in college basketball.



I think you are right that he will be a better player, and also right that it might not be obvious to people who only look at scoring totals.

Grayson is obviously smart. He must have a pretty good idea of how next year will be different for him than this year and still see the value in coming back. And I suspect that is especially true because in his GoDuke interview he talked about getting that degree--loading up in summer school for extra credits so he can get closer to it by the end of next season. Given his borderline first round draft status after the season he had this year, I think he gets it that he can't count on a long, highly lucrative professional playing career. With a degree he is ready to transition into coaching or some area of sports management if he wants; without it his options after playing are a lot more limited.

[Chicken Little]

http://i.imgur.com/jWWvQX5.png

[jv001]

What if we just score more points so he can keep his average? Tangential point, if Grayson gets three feet above the rim on a dunk, does that count as a three foot shot?



Nor Jackson, who may be the surprise of the class.

One thing that I saw Jackson do in the McDonalds' game was push off with his off arm when driving to the basket. I remember it being called on one occasion but not on others. I thought he played good defense but he will have to work hard to get minutes over Matt Jones. Not saying he won't but he'll have to work hard in practice. GoDuke!

[FerryFor50]

[/B]

One thing that I saw Jackson do in the McDonalds' game was push off with his off arm when driving to the basket. I remember it being called on one occasion but not on others. I thought he played good defense but he will have to work hard to get minutes over Matt Jones. Not saying he won't but he'll have to work hard in practice. GoDuke!

He likely won't have to beat out Matt for minutes.

[jv001]

He likely won't have to beat out Matt for minutes.

My post was more for those discussing whether Jackson or Matt will be in the starting lineup. It's quite possible both will play big minutes. Matt plays good defense and I think Jackson has the ability to play good defense. I know we'll be loaded with offensive weapons but I would love to see us have a good defensive team that can shut an opponent down when the shots are not falling. GoDuke!

[jimsumner]

I do see one problem with Allen's return.

If he increases his scoring from his sophomore to junior year at a comparable percentage to the increase between his freshman and sophomore seasons, then he's going to be averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 108 points per game, or thereabouts.

Might cause some hard feelings. And certainly won't help him enhance his NBA point-guard prospects.

[OldPhiKap]

I do see one problem with Allen's return.

If he increases his scoring from his sophomore to junior year at a comparable percentage to the increase between his freshman and sophomore seasons, then he's going to be averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 108 points per game, or thereabouts.

Might cause some hard feelings. And certainly won't help him enhance his NBA point-guard prospects.

No one likes a ball hog.

[Tom B.]

I do see one problem with Allen's return.

If he increases his scoring from his sophomore to junior year at a comparable percentage to the increase between his freshman and sophomore seasons, then he's going to be averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 108 points per game, or thereabouts.

Might cause some hard feelings. And certainly won't help him enhance his NBA point-guard prospects.


No need for him to go crazy like that. It'll be enough if he just increases his scoring total by the same number of points. That would bump him up to a much more manageable 38-39 ppg.

[hudlow]

If THE HAMMER could fall by Friday, this could be one of the best weeks EVER!!!!!

It was going so good until Merle Haggard died...

[jimsumner]

It was going so good until Merle Haggard died...

Listening to Tulare Dust as we speak.

[OldPhiKap]

It was going so good until Merle Haggard died...


Listening to Tulare Dust as we speak.

California Cottonfields here.

[howardlander]

It was going so good until Merle Haggard died...

Merle Haggard died? Ah crap ...

[devildeac]

I do see one problem with Allen's return.

If he increases his scoring from his sophomore to junior year at a comparable percentage to the increase between his freshman and sophomore seasons, then he's going to be averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 108 points per game, or thereabouts.

Might cause some hard feelings. And certainly won't help him enhance his NBA point-guard prospects.

I'll take this. Let the other 4 guys play a little D and we should be good. Won't be many teams to score >108/game unless we bring back a reincarnation of this WFU team (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19750122) or the Loyola Marymount team from the late 1980s is recreated :rolleyes: .

[jimsumner]

Merle Haggard died? Ah crap ...

Never swim Kern River again.

[timmy c]

Let's don't tempt fate with any 40-0 T-shirts.

Can Duke make "Winter is Coming" the theme of 2016-'17? How litigious is George R.R. Martin? :)


UVA fans already accuse Grayson of being a white walker...

I'm feeling the Game of Thrones references...
6258


“On the court, Grayson is a warrior, as I’ve said many times,” Krzyzewski continued

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm feeling the Game of Thrones references...
6258

Is this because many think Grayson looks like King Joffrey?

[bedeviled]

Looking forward to another moment like this - short clip of O'Bama lauding Grayson after 2015 win (https://www.instagram.com/p/7YeeX6PfTp/).
Note: the instagram account is Grayson's GF, who lets out a a tiny squeal.

[duke74]

Of the non-seniors, Poeltl, Simmons, and Murray are all but assured to be going pro; Dunn is likely to go pro; Ulis is unknown..

Just saw a scroll on ESPN - entering draft and hiring an agent. Anyone else see this?

[BD80]

Looking forward to another moment like this - short clip of O'Bama lauding Grayson after 2015 win (https://www.instagram.com/p/7YeeX6PfTp/).
Note: the instagram account is Grayson's GF, who lets out a a tiny squeal.

Bailey could be another (the) reason he is sticking around another year?

[superdave]

I do see one problem with Allen's return.

If he increases his scoring from his sophomore to junior year at a comparable percentage to the increase between his freshman and sophomore seasons, then he's going to be averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 108 points per game, or thereabouts.

Might cause some hard feelings. And certainly won't help him enhance his NBA point-guard prospects.


So is part of Allen's decision related to having the opportunity to play some point guard next year?

[OldPhiKap]

So is part of Allen's decision related to having the opportunity to play some point guard next year?

He wants to be a double-double man, although I figured he wanted to work on rebounding.

[SoCalDukeFan]

This has been a great week. unc losing the NC in a heartbreaker, Grayson coming back.

However lets not assume the NC for 2017. We will be very very good and very very fun to watch. But the NCs are tough.
Not saying we won't do it, as a matter of fact with Coach K we might do it any year, but we still have to play the games.

SoCal

[jipops]

I'm totally shocked by this news. I was convinced he was gone. Obviously this works out great for us as fans and for next year's team. I hope this works out great for him. I suppose it's possible he was already able to access some good info from which he could make this decision.

He's going to be dealing with a media firestorm next season. As ridiculous as the media was towards him this year, the lynching will be even worse next season. The slightest slip or mis-perceived contact is only going to ignite another forest fire. And K may very well be under the gun as a result of the media-brewed Brooks nontroversy. I'm guessing Grayson will be mature enough to handle all this.

[MaxAMillion]

I'm totally shocked by this news. I was convinced he was gone. Obviously this works out great for us as fans and for next year's team. I hope this works out great for him. I suppose it's possible he was already able to access some good info from which he could make this decision.

He's going to be dealing with a media firestorm next season. As ridiculous as the media was towards him this year, the lynching will be even worse next season. The slightest slip or mis-perceived contact is only going to ignite another forest fire. And K may very well be under the gun as a result of the media-brewed Brooks nontroversy. I'm guessing Grayson will be mature enough to handle all this.

I think Allen is making a mistake from an NBA draft standpoint. Right now he is coming off a great year where he exploded offensively. He still "projects" as an NBA point guard. Next year his offensive numbers will go down just because of the addition of talent being added to the roster. That means Allen has to show PG ready skills at the point to be considered an attractive prospect. NBA teams are looking for growth potential in who they draft (which is why a kid like Labissiere from UK can still end up a lottery pick). In other words, scouts don't know if Allen can play PG and that is a good thing.

[miramar]

I bought a royal blue votive candle this morning, took it home and lit it, and a short while later Grayson announces his return.

Tomorrow I'm going to buy a green candle and then I will buy some lottery tickets, so don't be surprised if my next post is from the Hotel Ritz in Paris.

[MarkD83]

I don't care about this team going undefeated, winning the ACC regular season or tournament. I care about another title and this team has more than the ability to do that next season.

Go Duke and welcome back GA!

Oh and can we get a schedule release already? I'm trying to see a couple games.

It would be great to win the ACC. I am sick and tired of seeing the scrolling electronic scoreboard at Cameron saying 19 ACC championships. It is time to change that to 20.

[FerryFor50]

He wants to be a double-double man, although I figured he wanted to work on rebounding.

If he wants to be a double-double man, he just needs to hit up In N Out Burger.

[53n206]

I'll take this. Let the other 4 guys play a little D and we should be good. Won't be many teams to score >108/game unless we bring back a reincarnation of this WFU team (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19750122) or the Loyola Marymount team from the late 1980s is recreated :rolleyes: .

Remember the game. I wonder what happened to all the guys on our team. Anyone know?

[mr. synellinden]

ESPN's story (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15146407/duke-blue-devils-grayson-allen-return-junior-season) on Grayson's return had the following last sentence:

"Duke will also add scoring point guard Frank Jackson, who will be an upgrade at the position."

And Jeff Goodman also said in an interview that Grayson Allen did not have a point guard this season.

I found this to be interesting as it relates to Thornton and his role on the team next year.

[heyman25]

I hope and pray that Coach K utilizes his bench. It promises to possibly be the best one he has ever had.
Golden State Warriors style would work.
Forgot DeLaurier and White
Would not be surprised if Obi or Vrankovic transfer.

[FerryFor50]

Would not be surprised if Obi or Vrankovic transfer.

Not sure why people keep saying this.

If Obi transfers, he loses a year of eligibility and has to sit out. If he stays, he gets to be part of a potential national champion. Keep in mind that Obi has been reported to have bad knees, so some of the talk is that he just "retires" from college ball and helps out in a non-official capacity.

Vrankovic knew coming in that he was a project. So I doubt he goes anywhere.

Neither likely needs to transfer to open up a spot for Bolden, either.

[PalmettoExpat]

http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1658693-hoop-summit-harry-giles-talks-injury-duke

Harry talks about his recovery (looked to be moving around pretty well, getting shots off). Talked about his excitement about starting school on May 17th, playing with Grayson, and "sacrificing for the team" insofar as sharing minutes/the ball. Said at Duke we "put our brothers first."

Finished by saying he's still in Marques' ear, telling him he'll complete the team.

This kid is awesome. So pumped.

[mr. synellinden]

http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1658693-hoop-summit-harry-giles-talks-injury-duke

Harry talks about his recovery (looked to be moving around pretty well, getting shots off). Talked about his excitement about starting school on May 17th, playing with Grayson, and "sacrificing for the team" insofar as sharing minutes/the ball. Said at Duke we "put our brothers first."

Finished by saying he's still in Marques' ear, telling him he'll complete the team.

This kid is awesome. So pumped.

Thanks for sharing. Love the kid already - and also have been extremely impressed with interviews I've seen with Frank Jackson and Tatum. Now especially with Grayson coming back, my main question about this team is going to be what it was at the start of the 14-15 season. How well are the upperclassmen going to mesh with such talented freshmen? Will there be cohesiveness and chemistry and will everyone check their egos at the door? When the #1 player in the class says "At Duke you sacrifice for your brothers" - that's a very good sign. It's also a great sign that the captains will have been part of a team that effectively meshed talented freshmen with veterans.

NBADraft.net has four Duke players going in the first round next year - including Jackson (in the lottery). The talent may be even greater than last season. But the most talented teams don't always win - see Kentucky 2015; Duke 1999; etc. I can't wait to see how this team comes together.

[Troublemaker]

Thanks for sharing. Love the kid already - and also have been extremely impressed with interviews I've seen with Frank Jackson and Tatum. Now especially with Grayson coming back, my main question about this team is going to be what it was at the start of the 14-15 season. How well are the upperclassmen going to mesh with such talented freshmen? Will there be cohesiveness and chemistry and will everyone check their egos at the door? When the #1 player in the class says "At Duke you sacrifice for your brothers" - that's a very good sign. It's also a great sign that the captains will have been part of a team that effectively meshed talented freshmen with veterans.

Yep, great interview with Giles. I didn't think he could remind me any more of young Garnett but in that interview, there's the concern for and love of teammates that Garnett became known for in the NBA (when he wasn't punching them out in practice.)

Prior to this, I had already seen that Gile's size, basketball skills, and insane athleticism were reminiscent of a young KG. I also made it out to a Nike event last summer and saw in person Giles' maniacal competitive spirit, also KG-esque. Now, we add concern for teammates. Hmmm.

This incoming recruiting class is like a time vortex that allows Duke fans to see what would've happened if Kobe and Garnett played college ball. WRT Tatum, if you watch his interviews, he will definitely reference Kobe as his hero and someone that he's worked hard to mimic his moves and footwork on the basketball court. You can definitely see the Kobe-influence in Jayson's game.

[CDu]

Just saw a scroll on ESPN - entering draft and hiring an agent. Anyone else see this?

Yes, as of yesterday afternoon the news came out that Ulis would stay in the draft. It is looking very likely that Allen will be the preseason Player of the Year and a very strong candidate for 1st Team All-American at the end of the year.

[Steven43]

I hate to say it, but I really think this team is in need of a PG to be the engine that makes this potential Ferrari go at full speed and efficiency. I don't think Thornton is that guy.

Unless Derrck improves significantly over the next six months in ball-handling, court awareness, calm under pressure, decision-making, and consistency in shooting--basically to get his game much closer to that of Tyus Jones--this team will not reach its vast potential.

I think Coach needs to hand the ball to Grayson TODAY and tell him 'You are my point guard. I believe in you. Let's do this together.'

[gus]

I hate to say it, but I really think this team is in need of a PG to be the engine that makes this potential Ferrari go at full speed and efficiency. I don't think Thornton is that guy.

Unless Derrck has significant improvement over the next six months in ball-handling, court awareness, calm under pressure, decision-making, and consistency in shooting--basically to get his game much closer to that of Tyus Jones--this team will not reach its vast potential.

I think Coach needs to hand the ball to Grayson TODAY and tell him 'You are my point guard. I believe in you. Let's do this together.'

Don't dismiss Thornton so quickly. This season should have been his senior year of high school, and Jerry Garcia could count on one hand the number of freshman point guards that have had great seasons in Coach K's system. Derryck showed flashes this year, and should be much better next season.

[Troublemaker]

I hate to say it, but I really think this team is in need of a PG to be the engine that makes this potential Ferrari go at full speed and efficiency. I don't think Thornton is that guy.

Unless Derrck improves significantly over the next six months in ball-handling, court awareness, calm under pressure, decision-making, and consistency in shooting--basically to get his game much closer to that of Tyus Jones--this team will not reach its vast potential.

I think Coach needs to hand the ball to Grayson TODAY and tell him 'You are my point guard. I believe in you. Let's do this together.'

It would definitely be nice to have a Tyus or Bobby around (or even a Chris Duhon) to conduct this orchestra.

It's just something we're going to have to work around. I don't think Grayson can turn into that although he is also my favorite to play the most PG this season.

But, at the same time, I don't believe it will prevent Duke from being the best team or at least top 3.

[Steven43]

Don't dismiss Thornton so quickly. This season should have been his senior year of high school, and Jerry Garcia could count on one hand the number of freshman point guards that have had great seasons in Coach K's system. Derryck showed flashed this year, and should be much better next season.

I hope you're right. Absolutely. I just don't think you are. And I don't think Coach has a moment to lose in making this decision.

Grayson needs to start thinking like a PG right now. Not in six or seven months if it becomes clear Thornton is not up to the task. If he (Grayson) does not start preparing immediately to be the starting PG it becomes much less likely to be successful. Now is the time.

Besides, Thornton is going to continue practicing and thinking like a PG. if in a few months it becomes obvious that Grayson just can't do it then Thornton becomes an option again. But if Grayson is ever to become a PG he needs to start today. Duke's immediate future and his own NBA future likely depends on it.

[Atldukie79]

I think dismissing Thornton out of hand as the point guard who can lead us to the title is a bit rash.

Before the legacy of Bobby Hurley was written in the history books, he was a turnover machine as a freshman. I saw some hi volume mistake ridden games from him...more than one fan was bonked in the noggin from wayward passes into the stands.

Now I am not saying that Thornton is Bobby Hurley, but if the greatest point guard in Duke history had to grow out of his "freshman-itis", let's allow Thornton the chance to grow also.

[Wander]

I think Coach needs to hand the ball to Grayson TODAY and tell him 'You are my point guard. I believe in you. Let's do this together.'

This is why I think the "Grayson's NBA draft stock is maxed out" idea this year was misguided. He is probably going to start at PG for us next year, and if he does well in that role I think it can change his NBA value.

[PackMan97]

Good.

Carolina fans hate him, which means I think he's awesome!

[jimsumner]

I think dismissing Thornton out of hand as the point guard who can lead us to the title is a bit rash.

Before the legacy of Bobby Hurley was written in the history books, he was a turnover machine as a freshman. I saw some hi volume mistake ridden games from him...more than one fan was bonked in the noggin from wayward passes into the stands.

Now I am not saying that Thornton is Bobby Hurley, but if the greatest point guard in Duke history had to grow out of his "freshman-itis", let's allow Thornton the chance to grow also.

Bobby Hurley had 166 turnovers as a freshman. That's still the ACC record.

And that's not factoring in degree of difficulty.

So, it does sometimes take a while.

[toughbuff1]

I hate to say it, but I really think this team is in need of a PG to be the engine that makes this potential Ferrari go at full speed and efficiency. I don't think Thornton is that guy.

Unless Derrck improves significantly over the next six months in ball-handling, court awareness, calm under pressure, decision-making, and consistency in shooting--basically to get his game much closer to that of Tyus Jones--this team will not reach its vast potential.

I think Coach needs to hand the ball to Grayson TODAY and tell him 'You are my point guard. I believe in you. Let's do this together.'

I thought Thornton improved immensely throughout the season. Sure, Oregon wasn't his best game, but he looked way better at the end of the season. Also, Coach K tends to be able to develop point guards. Quinn Cook and Nolan Smith contributed far less than Thornton their freshman years, and look how great they turned out.

[OldPhiKap]

Bobby Hurley had 166 turnovers as a freshman. That's still the ACC record.

And that's not factoring in degree of difficulty.

So, it does sometimes take a while.

His pout:assist ratio was horrible his freshman year too.

But he got better.

[Olympic Fan]

Personally, I think Grayson will be given the ball and asked to run the point next year -- which allows Kennard, Tatum, Jackson and Jones to share the two wing spots (with Tatum getting a little time at 4 in a small lineup).

That relegates Derryck Thornton to a backup point guard role. Obviously, he could play his way out of that -- come back so good next fall that he has to play a major role. But I think it's likely that he's relegated to a secondary role.

But that's not bad long term -- I see him on a career track similar to Nolan Smith's. In fact, Thornton was a MUCH more effective player as a freshman than Smith was in his first year. For all the complaints about Thornton's playmaking, he did finish with 93 assists and 59 turnovers ... Nolan had 45 assists and 49 turnovers as a freshman. In fact, he had just 58 assists and 56 turnovers as a sophomore, when he played point most of the year. And the young Nolan wasn't nearly as good an on-the-ball defender as a freshman/sophomore.

Nolan didn't really blossom until his junior year. Then he became a star.

I could see that happening to Thornton. With all the perimeter talent on hand, I could see him playing a minor role as a sophomore.

But what happens then? Allen is now on the three-year plan, according to K, and will probably go after next season. Tatum is likely a one-and-done. Jones will graduate. That leaves Kennard and maybe Jackson as the only probable veteran perimeter players returning (well, Jack White, but I'll be surprised if he plays much next year). Neither is really a point guard (although either could play it in a pinch).

As a junior, Thornton should be an experienced and mature player -- ready to be a floor leader for a team that will need strong leadership.

The only question is whether he's willing to put in the time and wait for his moment to arrive -- as Nolan did. I'm sure there are hangers on who look at next season and point out how tough it's going to be for him to carve a major role. But I hope somebody points out that if he transfers, he'll have to sit out next season anyway. He'll gain a lot more from playing a backup role on a national championship contender than from sitting out somewhere else.

And while nothing is guaranteed, the same kind of realistic projections suggest that in 2017-18, Thornton will be the starting point guard and a key player at Duke. Can he do better than that somewhere else? I think not.

[BD80]

Personally, I think Grayson will be given the ball and asked to run the point next year -- which allows Kennard, Tatum, Jackson and Jones to share the two wing spots (with Tatum getting a little time at 4 in a small lineup).

That relegates Derryck Thornton to a backup point guard role. Obviously, he could play his way out of that -- come back so good next fall that he has to play a major role. But I think it's likely that he's relegated to a secondary role.

... With all the perimeter talent on hand, I could see him playing a minor role as a sophomore.

But what happens then? Allen is now on the three-year plan, according to K, and will probably go after next season. Tatum is likely a one-and-done. Jones will graduate. That leaves Kennard and maybe Jackson as the only probable veteran perimeter players returning ... . Neither is really a point guard (although either could play it in a pinch).

As a junior, Thornton should be an experienced and mature player -- ready to be a floor leader for a team that will need strong leadership.

The only question is whether he's willing to put in the time and wait for his moment to arrive -- as Nolan did. I'm sure there are hangers on who look at next season and point out how tough it's going to be for him to carve a major role. But I hope somebody points out that if he transfers, he'll have to sit out next season anyway. He'll gain a lot more from playing a backup role on a national championship contender than from sitting out somewhere else.

And while nothing is guaranteed, the same kind of realistic projections suggest that in 2017-18, Thornton will be the starting point guard and a key player at Duke. Can he do better than that somewhere else? I think not.

How about a red-shirt year? A year practicing against a National Contender line-up, working with Duke's training staff in one of the world's leading facilities, learning how to be a leader from the GOAT, working toward a Duke degree in 3 years (which would allow him to choose any other program for his 3rd and 4th years of eligibility without a transfer year)

[tux]

Personally, I think Grayson will be given the ball and asked to run the point next year -- which allows Kennard, Tatum, Jackson and Jones to share the two wing spots (with Tatum getting a little time at 4 in a small lineup).

That relegates Derryck Thornton to a backup point guard role. Obviously, he could play his way out of that -- come back so good next fall that he has to play a major role. But I think it's likely that he's relegated to a secondary role.

But that's not bad long term -- I see him on a career track similar to Nolan Smith's. In fact, Thornton was a MUCH more effective player as a freshman than Smith was in his first year. For all the complaints about Thornton's playmaking, he did finish with 93 assists and 59 turnovers ... Nolan had 45 assists and 49 turnovers as a freshman. In fact, he had just 58 assists and 56 turnovers as a sophomore, when he played point most of the year. And the young Nolan wasn't nearly as good an on-the-ball defender as a freshman/sophomore.

Nolan didn't really blossom until his junior year. Then he became a star.

I could see that happening to Thornton. With all the perimeter talent on hand, I could see him playing a minor role as a sophomore.

But what happens then? Allen is now on the three-year plan, according to K, and will probably go after next season. Tatum is likely a one-and-done. Jones will graduate. That leaves Kennard and maybe Jackson as the only probable veteran perimeter players returning (well, Jack White, but I'll be surprised if he plays much next year). Neither is really a point guard (although either could play it in a pinch).

As a junior, Thornton should be an experienced and mature player -- ready to be a floor leader for a team that will need strong leadership.

The only question is whether he's willing to put in the time and wait for his moment to arrive -- as Nolan did. I'm sure there are hangers on who look at next season and point out how tough it's going to be for him to carve a major role. But I hope somebody points out that if he transfers, he'll have to sit out next season anyway. He'll gain a lot more from playing a backup role on a national championship contender than from sitting out somewhere else.

And while nothing is guaranteed, the same kind of realistic projections suggest that in 2017-18, Thornton will be the starting point guard and a key player at Duke. Can he do better than that somewhere else? I think not.


Some good points but I don't think Grayson can be fitted into the PG role. I think he has the size, strength, and athleticism to play SG at the next level and would be better served working on the handful of things required to become a more elite SG than trying to learn all the nuances of running the point. I really hope Thornton is on the roster next season, because the team *could* be really good w/o him but could be other-worldly if he can take a healthy step forward this offseason. I also need to see F Jackson play a little more before I consider him a starting PG -- I do think Jackson is better suited to split time between the 1 and 2 than either Grayson or Matt. Grayson can probably play 1-3, but I see him as a more natural 2. Matt is more a 3 at the college level in my mind.


EDIT: I realize K doesn't emphasize positions, I'm just using the above designations as shorthand for certain skill sets...

[Reddevil]

Don't dismiss Thornton so quickly. This season should have been his senior year of high school, and Jerry Garcia could count on one hand the number of freshman point guards that have had great seasons in Coach K's system. Derryck showed flashes this year, and should be much better next season.

Yep. How about Thornton, Allen, Kennard, and Jackson all work on their handle, shooting, and defense between now and October and let everyone else do the worrying.:D
This is going to be a fun ride!

[Olympic Fan]

How about a red-shirt year? A year practicing against a National Contender line-up, working with Duke's training staff in one of the world's leading facilities, learning how to be a leader from the GOAT, working toward a Duke degree in 3 years (which would allow him to choose any other program for his 3rd and 4th years of eligibility without a transfer year)

I think a redshirt would be unlikely because from what I know of Thornton and his family, he is anxious to get to the NBA.

The only reason to redshirt would be to extend his career to 2019-20. I'm sure that Derryck expects to be in the pros by then. Obviously, he's not ready now and I doubt he plays enough next year to be ready. But if he comes back for 2017-18, he's a key player and if he performs at a high level (say, the level Nolan Smith played as a junior in 2010), then I think he'll be ready to go.

Redshirting isn't really an option ... besides, it will be nice for next year's team -- which will have everything else -- to have a true point guard option, even if it is as a backup.

And, tux, we'll just have to disagree about Grayson's ability to play the point. That's why he's coming back, to expand that part of his game. Knowing what a hard, focused worker he is, I have no doubt that he'll do at least as well at the point as former "wing" guards Jon Scheyer in 2010 and Nolan Smith in 2011.

[kAzE]

Personally, I think Grayson will be given the ball and asked to run the point next year

I'm not sure if that's really the best way to handle it. Grayson's best and most efficient shot is the catch-and-shoot three pointer. He is FAR less efficient shooting off the dribble. If he's asked to run the point exclusively, he will get far fewer chances at spotting up and shooting with his feet set, which is no good for him. I think he will run the point at times, but I see a lot more sharing of point guard duties between Grayson, Derryck, Frank, Matt, and Jayson. We were an elite offense last year without a true point guard. We will be fine next year as well.

[fraggler]

Obviously a bit meaningless at this point, but I do think it amusing that Grayson has moved up in projected draft position on Draftexpress and Nbadraft.net 2017 mock drafts. I'd be really interested in finding out what scouts really think of him and what improvements they want to see since there is quite the wide range of opinions here on the boards.

[JNort]

I think a redshirt would be unlikely because from what I know of Thornton and his family, he is anxious to get to the NBA.

The only reason to redshirt would be to extend his career to 2019-20. I'm sure that Derruck expects to be in the pros by then. Obviously, he's not ready now and I doubt he plays enough next year to be ready. But if he comes back for 2017-18, he's a key player and if he performs at a high level (say, the level Nolan Smith played as a junior in 2010), then I think he'll be ready to go.

Redshirting isn't really an option ... besides, it will be nice for next year's team -- which will have everything else -- to have a true point guard option, even if it is as a backup.

And, tux, we'll just have to disagree about Grayson's ability to play the point. That's why he's coming back, to expand that part of his game. Knowing what a hard, focused worker he is, I have no doubt that he'll do at least as well at the point as former "wing" guards Jon Scheyer in 2010 and Nolan Smith in 2011.

But Grayson has no prospects of playing pg in the nba. What he needs to come back and show improvement in is his ability to finish through contact, pull up Js, stepbacks and maybe a better crossover. As of right no he does two things on offense really well (shoot the 3 and straight line drives) he shows he can add a couple more scoring moves sumilar to what Buddy Hield did then he could move up into the lottery

[Olympic Fan]

But Grayson has no prospects of playing pg in the nba. What he needs to come back and show improvement in is his ability to finish through contact, pull up Js, stepbacks and maybe a better crossover. As of right no he does two things on offense really well (shoot the 3 and straight line drives) he shows he can add a couple more scoring moves sumilar to what Buddy Hield did then he could move up into the lottery

That's not what a scout (for an NBA title contender) told me at the ACC Tournament in Washington.

He told me that Grayson could improve his NBA stock tremendously by developing his point guard skills. The other two things he wanted to see from Grayson was the pull-up mid-range jumper (something he did, but not often, last year) and better use of his left hand.

You suggest that he does two things well -- shooting 3s and straight line drives, but he actually demonstrated some point-guard like abilities to drive and kick or to drive and dish inside to Marshall. There was a reason he led Duke in assists, which is pretty good, considering that he didn't play the point.

[CDu]

That's not what a scout (for an NBA title contender) told me at the ACC Tournament in Washington.

He told me that Grayson could improve his NBA stock tremendously by developing his point guard skills. The other two things he wanted to see from Grayson was the pull-up mid-range jumper (something he did, but not often, last year) and better use of his left hand.

You suggest that he does two things well -- shooting 3s and straight line drives, but he actually demonstrated some point-guard like abilities to drive and kick or to drive and dish inside to Marshall. There was a reason he led Duke in assists, which is pretty good, considering that he didn't play the point.

Well, of course he would improve his stock if he could play PG. Amile Jefferson would improve his stock if he was a stretch 4 or had shown SF skills. It is always more beneficial to your stock to be show skills a"position down" from where you will play. That suggests you will actually have the skills to be a versatile player at your position.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily tout the argument that Allen's assist numbers are extra impressive because "he didn't play the point." Nobody played the point this year for us. Allen probably had the ball in the half-court offense more than any other Duke player given that he led the team in minutes and in usage. So it is only natural that he (a guard) would lead the team in assists. Basically we had an offense where 4-5 guys initiated the attack. Allen's assists per-40 were second on the team behind Thornton, and if we were to estimate assists per touch I would bet he would fall further down the list behind Matt Jones and even possibly (though less likely) Kennard. That isn't intended to be a slight of Allen. He was a prolific and efficient scorer. But I think he gets his assists in a fashion similar to Dwyane Wade or Jimmy Butler, two guys who are clear SGs.

I see very little likelihood that Allen plays PG at the NBA level. It just isn't in his makeup. And if he really is 6'5" then there is no reason he can't stick at SG.

[BD80]

I think a redshirt would be unlikely because from what I know of Thornton and his family, he is anxious to get to the NBA.

The only reason to redshirt would be to extend his career to 2019-20. I'm sure that Derryck expects to be in the pros by then. Obviously, he's not ready now and I doubt he plays enough next year to be ready. But if he comes back for 2017-18, he's a key player and if he performs at a high level (say, the level Nolan Smith played as a junior in 2010), then I think he'll be ready to go.

Redshirting isn't really an option ... besides, it will be nice for next year's team -- which will have everything else -- to have a true point guard option, even if it is as a backup.

...


I am somewhat surprised at this. But I guess nearly every kid at this level has been the best in their school, district, state etc., and they have been told they are pro material. Derrick may well have the tools for the pros. It seems to me his best path to the pros from this point is the exact scenario you laid out.

[BD80]

That's not what a scout (for an NBA title contender) told me at the ACC Tournament in Washington.

He told me that Grayson could improve his NBA stock tremendously by developing his point guard skills. The other two things he wanted to see from Grayson was the pull-up mid-range jumper (something he did, but not often, last year) and better use of his left hand.

You suggest that he does two things well -- shooting 3s and straight line drives, but he actually demonstrated some point-guard like abilities to drive and kick or to drive and dish inside to Marshall. There was a reason he led Duke in assists, which is pretty good, considering that he didn't play the point.

Grayson will absolutely need the pull-up jumper at the next level. With as hard as he drives, he gets his defender moving laterally and retreating vigorously, giving Grayson the opportunity to stop and elevate for his shot. Since he has good elevation, this should be very effective if he can shoot with consistent accuracy. If he can further add a cross-over and a finish with his left, he will be a very dangerous scorer. If he tries to take everything to the hoop the way he did this past year, he will take a real beating in the pros, and many, if not most, of his shots will be erased by a rim protector.

[bedeviled]

if he comes back for 2017-18, he's a key player and if he performs at a high level (say, the level Nolan Smith played as a junior in 2010), then I think he'll be ready to goI, too, think Derryck could be ready his junior year. It's a tight situation, though, as he's pinched on both ends. On the short side, he has to factor in Frank's trajectory and potential decisions. On the long side, he has to (I hope) factor in Tre Jones' trajectory and decisions.
ETA: should have added a smiley. Senior Derryck should beat out a freshman. But, don't underestimate those Joneses!

[Furniture]

6262

[Indoor66]

6262

What a GREAT picture. Thanks for the posting. :cool:

[devildeac]

6262

Any way you could photoshop JJ into that photo? :rolleyes:;)

[phaedrus]

Well, of course he would improve his stock if he could play PG. Amile Jefferson would improve his stock if he was a stretch 4 or had shown SF skills. It is always more beneficial to your stock to be show skills a"position down" from where you will play. That suggests you will actually have the skills to be a versatile player at your position.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily tout the argument that Allen's assist numbers are extra impressive because "he didn't play the point." Nobody played the point this year for us. Allen probably had the ball in the half-court offense more than any other Duke player given that he led the team in minutes and in usage. So it is only natural that he (a guard) would lead the team in assists. Basically we had an offense where 4-5 guys initiated the attack. Allen's assists per-40 were second on the team behind Thornton, and if we were to estimate assists per touch I would bet he would fall further down the list behind Matt Jones and even possibly (though less likely) Kennard. That isn't intended to be a slight of Allen. He was a prolific and efficient scorer. But I think he gets his assists in a fashion similar to Dwyane Wade or Jimmy Butler, two guys who are clear SGs.

I see very little likelihood that Allen plays PG at the NBA level. It just isn't in his makeup. And if he really is 6'5" then there is no reason he can't stick at SG.

To add to your point, GA is certainly capable of improving his point guard skills next year without taking on the mindset and responsibilities of a traditional pass-first point guard. That is, he can work on his handle - including his left-hand, his repertoire of dribble moves and penetration ability - and his passing and vision without trying to impersonate Tyus Jones during game time. These are also valuable skills for NBA shooting guards, as Wade and Butler have shown, but acquiring and using those skills doesn't require those players to dramatically change their style of play.

[gep]

...

But that's not bad long term -- I see him on a career track similar to Nolan Smith's. In fact, Thornton was a MUCH more effective player as a freshman than Smith was in his first year. For all the complaints about Thornton's playmaking, he did finish with 93 assists and 59 turnovers ... Nolan had 45 assists and 49 turnovers as a freshman. In fact, he had just 58 assists and 56 turnovers as a sophomore, when he played point most of the year. And the young Nolan wasn't nearly as good an on-the-ball defender as a freshman/sophomore.

Nolan didn't really blossom until his junior year. Then he became a star.

I could see that happening to Thornton. With all the perimeter talent on hand, I could see him playing a minor role as a sophomore.

...

As a junior, Thornton should be an experienced and mature player -- ready to be a floor leader for a team that will need strong leadership.

The only question is whether he's willing to put in the time and wait for his moment to arrive -- as Nolan did. I'm sure there are hangers on who look at next season and point out how tough it's going to be for him to carve a major role. But I hope somebody points out that if he transfers, he'll have to sit out next season anyway. He'll gain a lot more from playing a backup role on a national championship contender than from sitting out somewhere else.

And while nothing is guaranteed, the same kind of realistic projections suggest that in 2017-18, Thornton will be the starting point guard and a key player at Duke. Can he do better than that somewhere else? I think not.

Well... he'll have BOTH Nolan and Jon on the staff to guide him. :cool:

[JNort]

That's not what a scout (for an NBA title contender) told me at the ACC Tournament in Washington.

He told me that Grayson could improve his NBA stock tremendously by developing his point guard skills. The other two things he wanted to see from Grayson was the pull-up mid-range jumper (something he did, but not often, last year) and better use of his left hand.

You suggest that he does two things well -- shooting 3s and straight line drives, but he actually demonstrated some point-guard like abilities to drive and kick or to drive and dish inside to Marshall. There was a reason he led Duke in assists, which is pretty good, considering that he didn't play the point.

You misunderstood me or rather I didn't make it very clear. Of course Grayson will improve his draft stock if he improves his pg skills but he won't be playing pg in the nba. He will be playing sg.


I also wasn't saying the rest of his game was no good. Just that right now his bread and butter is his 3 ball and straight line drives. If he can add more moves to get separation on his shots that will help him much more than improving his passing abilities. Like somebody said in another thread "you combine Luke and Grayson you got a monster on offense" or somthing like that.

[mr. synellinden]

Grayson will absolutely need the pull-up jumper at the next level. With as hard as he drives, he gets his defender moving laterally and retreating vigorously, giving Grayson the opportunity to stop and elevate for his shot. Since he has good elevation, this should be very effective if he can shoot with consistent accuracy. If he can further add a cross-over and a finish with his left, he will be a very dangerous scorer. If he tries to take everything to the hoop the way he did this past year, he will take a real beating in the pros, and many, if not most, of his shots will be erased by a rim protector.

Agreed. And this is a point I've raised before, it is the same game improvement that Gerald Henderson made between sophomore and junior years and I think their games are comparable.

[Steven43]

I think a redshirt would be unlikely because from what I know of Thornton and his family, he is anxious to get to the NBA
'Anxious to get to the NBA'? I sincerely hope they are not still feeling that way. Derryck will have to show a lot more than he has thus far to even begin to dream of such things. To this point he has not demonstrated having a potential NBA skillset.

[superdave]

So is part of Allen's decision related to having the opportunity to play some point guard next year?

I suspect that this, Jackson coming and wanting to be closing to home are part of Thornton's decision. Hard to predict what is going on with teenagers.

[Jackson]

I suspect that this, Jackson coming and wanting to be closing to home are part of Thornton's decision. Hard to predict what is going on with teenagers.

Looks like Grayson is going to have to play at least some PG next season. Hoping that Frank Jackson can play at least have the time at that spot. With how loaded next year's draft looks to be, what chance that Grayson is a 4 year guy? #3 in the rafters!

[PalmettoExpat]

In which Ken Jeong reps his Blue Devil pride hard on ESPN, and sort of kind of defends Grayson's little trip episodes.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=15202788

[luvdahops]

To add to your point, GA is certainly capable of improving his point guard skills next year without taking on the mindset and responsibilities of a traditional pass-first point guard. That is, he can work on his handle - including his left-hand, his repertoire of dribble moves and penetration ability - and his passing and vision without trying to impersonate Tyus Jones during game time. These are also valuable skills for NBA shooting guards, as Wade and Butler have shown, but acquiring and using those skills doesn't require those players to dramatically change their style of play.

I would also point out that there aren't a whole lot of traditional, pass-first point guards in the NBA these days, either, at least as starters. In fact, for the vast majority of this year's playoff teams, the starting PG is a primary (i.e. top 2-3) scorer. So the traditional lines between point and shooting guards are often pretty blurry these days. Whatever position you want to assign Grayson longer term, he will undoubtedly benefit from a developing a broader skill set that includes a tighter handle and better passing and vision. And he should get the opportunity to do just that next year, whether we call him a point guard or not.