2016 NBA Draft

[BD80]

And it begins:

6'5" FSU freshman guard Malik Beasly declares for draft. Likely to stay in.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25526122/florida-state-g-malik-beasley-to-declare-for-the-2016-nba-draft

[Olympic Fan]

And it begins:

6'5" FSU freshman guard Malik Beasly declares for draft. Likely to stay in.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25526122/florida-state-g-malik-beasley-to-declare-for-the-2016-nba-draft

Interesting ... my sources at Florida State have believed all season that Dwayne Bacon was 100 percent one and done, but they had thought that there was a chance that Beasley (who comes from a wealthy, successful family) would return for a second year.

It will be interesting to track the ACC kids who enter the draft early this year. For now we have two:

Jaron Blossomgame of Clemson (testing the waters, might come back) and now Beasley (expected to stay in the draft).

Also almost certain to jump (but not yet declared):
Brandon Ingram (Duke)
Dwayne Bacon (FSU)
Cat Barber (NC State)

Expected to at least test the waters:
Grayson Allen (Duke)
Xavier Rathan-Mayes (FSU)
Demetrious Jackson (Notre Dame)

Of course, with the new rules -- allowing players to declare, work out for pro teams, then return to college without penalty (as long as they do not formally hire an agent) -- I would expect half a dozen other players to test the NBA waters this spring.

[SCMatt33]

Also almost certain to jump (but not yet declared):
Brandon Ingram (Duke)
Dwayne Bacon (FSU)
Cat Barber (NC State)

Expected to at least test the waters:
Grayson Allen (Duke)
Xavier Rathan-Mayes (FSU)
Demetrious Jackson (Notre Dame)


Cat Barber did declare yesterday from what I read, though he isn't hiring an agent for now.

[gurufrisbee]

With Paige and Brice as seniors, rampant speculation about Roy bolting for the NBA (screw the NBA, right?), and the looming reality of big NCAA penalties coming, I wonder if any other NC kids will end up leaving early. Mostly Jackson. He's the only real NBA player there. But someone will spend a second round flyer on a big body like Hicks or Meeks or sign Berry to a free agent try out.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Simmons is no longer a student at LSU and has moved to Phoenix, Arizona to prepare for the draft. If a player has ever made a mockery of the one-and-done rule, it has been Simmons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/712066495140986880?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp %5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[BD80]

With Paige and Brice as seniors, rampant speculation about Roy bolting for the NBA (screw the NBA, right?), and the looming reality of big NCAA penalties coming, I wonder if any other NC kids will end up leaving early. Mostly Jackson. He's the only real NBA player there. But someone will spend a second round flyer on a big body like Hicks or Meeks or sign Berry to a free agent try out.

I would love to hear a sound bite of ol' roy saying he doesn't give a sh!te about the NBA.

Frankly, I would rather ol' roy stay at unc and just fade into mediocrity

[Dev11]

Simmons is no longer a student at LSU and has moved to Phoenix, Arizona to prepare for the draft. If a player has ever made a mockery of the one-and-done rule, it has been Simmons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/712066495140986880?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp %5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Well, it's a fair trade. Simmons spends the year in college focusing on basketball, and LSU gets to play in the...oh...wait...

[Duke79UNLV77]

With Paige and Brice as seniors, rampant speculation about Roy bolting for the NBA (screw the NBA, right?), and the looming reality of big NCAA penalties coming, I wonder if any other NC kids will end up leaving early. Mostly Jackson. He's the only real NBA player there. But someone will spend a second round flyer on a big body like Hicks or Meeks or sign Berry to a free agent try out.

Rampant speculation about Roy bolting for the NBA? I must have missed that.

It is amazing, though not surprising, that top 10-20 ranked recruits are almost sure to return en masse to UNC again as juniors and seniors.

[Edouble]

Simmons is no longer a student at LSU and has moved to Phoenix, Arizona to prepare for the draft. If a player has ever made a mockery of the one-and-done rule, it has been Simmons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/712066495140986880?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp %5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Meanwhile, Brandon Ingram to Anaheim to "prepare for the draft."

Ben Simmons: least impressive “sure fire #1 pick” that I can recall. No NCAAs, no NIT, has to train for three months to try to stay the #1 pick?

[BD80]

Meanwhile, Brandon Ingram to Anaheim to "prepare for the draft."

Ben Simmons: least impressive “sure fire #1 pick” that I can recall. No NCAAs, no NIT, has to train for three months to try to stay the #1 pick?

Simmons will spend as much time in a classroom in Arizona as he did at LSU

[kAzE]

I can't really blame Simmons. LSU probably wasn't a great environment for him at the moment, and he does have some work to do if he wants to be the #1 pick. Most draft pundits have knocked him down to #2 overall. And justifiably, that's probably more important for him at the moment than school. And you're kidding yourself if you think for a second he was doing any schoolwork at LSU.

This seems like a deathblow for LSU recruiting though. How long does Johnny Jones last?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Simmons is no longer a student at LSU and has moved to Phoenix, Arizona to prepare for the draft. If a player has ever made a mockery of the one-and-done rule, it has been Simmons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/712066495140986880?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp %5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Why is it pathetic? Simmons never wanted to go to college but was forced to by a pretty dumb NBA rule. He could have gone to China or [place country here] for 8 months, but college gives you a lot more exposure.

I can't blame Simmons for doing what he did. It's not his fault that he couldn't go directly to the NBA out of high school.

[dukebluesincebirth]

With Paige and Brice as seniors, rampant speculation about Roy bolting for the NBA (screw the NBA, right?), and the looming reality of big NCAA penalties coming, I wonder if any other NC kids will end up leaving early. Mostly Jackson. He's the only real NBA player there. But someone will spend a second round flyer on a big body like Hicks or Meeks or sign Berry to a free agent try out.

I haven't heard the rampant speculation about Roy...where are you hearing these things? I'd love to see Hicks go ahead and go before he gets really good, but there is NO WAY meeks can play in the NBA. Of course the 76ers will probably take him early 2nd round or something.

As for Simmons, I don't really have a problem with him leaving school early to workout, as he never really wanted to go to college. My issue with Simmons was his college choice. If you have to go for a year, why in the world would you choose LSU?? Why not play for a school who competes on the national level and in the postseason to let people see how you measure up with the best? Scared to play with the big boys? A little soft IMO. I'd take the mentally tough kid from Kinston, NC if I was a GM. I could see Simmons being a bust.

[Henderson]

I can't really blame Simmons. LSU probably wasn't a great environment for him at the moment, and he does have some work to do if he wants to be the #1 pick. Most draft pundits have knocked him down to #2 overall. And justifiably, that's probably more important for him at the moment than school. And you're kidding yourself if you think for a second he was doing any schoolwork at LSU.

This seems like a deathblow for LSU recruiting though. How long does Johnny Jones last?

Your second paragraph responded to your first. Simmons let down his school and his coach. For himself. And it's not like it would have been a huge sacrifice to put in the effort. Instead, his presence at LSU hurt LSU net net net. Good job, Ben.

[Jeffrey]

Your second paragraph responded to your first. Simmons let down his school and his coach. For himself. And it's not like it would have been a huge sacrifice to put in the effort. Instead, his presence at LSU hurt LSU net net net. Good job, Ben.

Are we sure his school and coach requested anything more from him?

[Henderson]

Are we sure his school and coach requested anything more from him?

I'm not sure, but I would be shocked if LSU and coach didn't want Ben Simmons to burnish their reputations somehow. By his selfish behavior, he did not. And perhaps in a twist of karma, his behavior seems not to be helping him much either.

[kAzE]

Your second paragraph responded to your first. Simmons let down his school and his coach. For himself. And it's not like it would have been a huge sacrifice to put in the effort. Instead, his presence at LSU hurt LSU net net net. Good job, Ben.

There's blame to shared on both sides for sure, but I believe the coach and school share a bigger part of the blame for this. If you watched any LSU games this year, Simmons was not utilized properly at all. Anyone who saw him play could tell immediately that he's the best player on the floor, but the way the team played did not reflect that. I don't know who to blame other than the coach. The coach's job is to put his players in the best position to utilize their strengths and win games . . . and this coaching staff did not hold up their end of the bargain. Any decent coach would have made the NCAA tournament with this LSU team.

You can try to fault Simmons for not being more of an alpha dog or aggressive or whatever, but at the end of the day, he's a 19 year old kid who should have been in the NBA this year being tutored by NBA veterans and NBA coaches instead of playing for a pathetic SEC program where he has no chance to improve as a player.

Leaving the school to help himself is what he should do. It's not his fault that LSU is a mess.

[duke79]

Why is it pathetic? Simmons never wanted to go to college but was forced to by a pretty dumb NBA rule. He could have gone to China or [place country here] for 8 months, but college gives you a lot more exposure.

I can't blame Simmons for doing what he did. It's not his fault that he couldn't go directly to the NBA out of high school.

I tend to agree with you. If we lived in a perfect world, I would (in theory) make the kids go to college for 4 years, develop their games, AND get an education (and degree) that might do them some good in the long run. But as we all know, we don't live in such a world and I'm not sure why, of if, the NBA should require someone to wait one year after high school before being eligible for the NBA draft. It seems to me a completely arbitrary rule that makes no sense for the NBA OR (some) of the players. There are some kids who might be better off to go directly from HS to the NBA. Why make them wait one year?

Furthermore, and I may be mistaken, but didn't Jahlil Okafor essentially drop out of Duke after they won the NC last year? Did he finish his second semester?

[Henderson]

There's blame to shared on both sides for sure, but I believe the coach and school share a bigger part of the blame for this. If you watched any LSU games this year, Simmons was not utilized properly at all. Anyone who saw him play could tell immediately that he's the best player on the floor, but the way the team played did not reflect that. I don't know who to blame other than the coach. The coach's job is to put his players in the best position to utilize their strengths and win games . . . and this coaching staff did not hold up their end of the bargain. Any decent coach would have made the NCAA tournament with this LSU team.

You can try to fault Simmons for not being more of an alpha dog or aggressive or whatever, but at the end of the day, he's a 19 year old kid who should have been in the NBA this year being tutored by NBA veterans and NBA coaches instead of playing for a pathetic SEC program where he has no chance to improve as a player.

Leaving the school to help himself is what he should do. It's not his fault that LSU is a mess.

I get this. I'll even go further in the heads-swinging-toward-LSU angle by saying: It was an unusual college choice by Mr. Simmons. Better leave it there.

But BS didn't try to be a student-athlete. Whatever their motivations, LSU gave him a platform for athletic success. He seemed disinterested. It also gave him rudimentary classes he could go to. It would have benefited both coach and university if he'd gone to class. But f* that. His radio was tuned to Ben Simmons radio. It would have helped LSU if he'd at least tried to maintain the "one year of academics" facade. And it would have helped him.

But instead he just punted. He's a head case, not a lottery pick.

[Jeffrey]

It's not his fault that LSU is a mess.

It's his fault he chose LSU.

[Jeffrey]

He's a head case, not a lottery pick.

History has clearly shown both are possible. And, he is a lottery pick, for sure.

[Henderson]

History has clearly shown both are possible. And, he is a lottery pick, for sure.

You are certainly correct that NBA GMs do foolish things, if that was your point.

[Jeffrey]

You are certainly correct that NBA GMs do foolish things, if that was your point.

Yes, head cases are definitely on their "to-draft" lists.

[Bluedog]

I tend to agree with you. If we lived in a perfect world, I would (in theory) make the kids go to college for 4 years, develop their games, AND get an education (and degree) that might do them some good in the long run. But as we all know, we don't live in such a world and I'm not sure why, of if, the NBA should require someone to wait one year after high school before being eligible for the NBA draft. It seems to me a completely arbitrary rule that makes no sense for the NBA OR (some) of the players. There are some kids who might be better off to go directly from HS to the NBA. Why make them wait one year?

Furthermore, and I may be mistaken, but didn't Jahlil Okafor essentially drop out of Duke after they won the NC last year? Did he finish his second semester?

Considering the semester ended like 3 weeks after the national championship game, I'd find it hard to believe that he didn't finish it out -- I didn't hear anything about that and feel like that would have been news. People give Cal flack for his one and done factory, but I believe there's been only one player in the Cal era at UK that withdrew from school -- Daniel Orton. And Orton hasn't been invited back.

[sagegrouse]

Why is it pathetic? Simmons never wanted to go to college but was forced to by a pretty dumb NBA rule. He could have gone to China or [place country here] for 8 months, but college gives you a lot more exposure.

I can't blame Simmons for doing what he did. It's not his fault that he couldn't go directly to the NBA out of high school.


Your second paragraph responded to your first. Simmons let down his school and his coach. For himself. And it's not like it would have been a huge sacrifice to put in the effort. Instead, his presence at LSU hurt LSU net net net. Good job, Ben.


I tend to agree with you. If we lived in a perfect world, I would (in theory) make the kids go to college for 4 years, develop their games, AND get an education (and degree) that might do them some good in the long run. But as we all know, we don't live in such a world and I'm not sure why, of if, the NBA should require someone to wait one year after high school before being eligible for the NBA draft. It seems to me a completely arbitrary rule that makes no sense for the NBA OR (some) of the players. There are some kids who might be better off to go directly from HS to the NBA. Why make them wait one year?

Furthermore, and I may be mistaken, but didn't Jahlil Okafor essentially drop out of Duke after they won the NC last year? Did he finish his second semester?

"Going to school" is the deal. He signed up to enroll at LSU and play for the Bengal Tigers. He didn't "go to school" and follow through on his part of the bargain, leaving LSU with a black mark on its "academic progress stat." And, albeit by rumor and innuendo (the coin of the realm on the internet), he was not a positive presence in the locker room.

If that was his intention, he should have played professionally someplace and skipped college.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'Maybe it's not an unusual problem with college ath-a-letes from overseas. The Golf Channel guys joke about foreign players coming to American universities on golf scholarships asking, "You mean I have to study, too?"'
'There is no evidence that the Duke women's golf team, all from overseas, have any of these problems'

[mgtr]

I haven't raised this issue before, but I wonder what kind of deal Simmons made with LSU. He played in games, but he played Simmons ball, not team ball. Why did he bring the ball up the court? Did LSU need a 6'10" point guard? Where was the coaching? Where was the coach? Can you imagine a Duke player getting away with playing his own game, to the exclusion of the team?
In normal circumstances, discipline can be imposed by a ride on the pine. I didn't see that going on with Simmons. I guess that he cut a deal before signing with LSU that spelled out how little he had to do, and how much he would play. I also guess that that approach is against NCAA rules.

[Channing]

fwiw (admittedly not much) DraftExpress now has Grayson as the last pick in the first round and NBADraft.net has him down at 25.

[Olympic Fan]

(1) It is my understanding that every one-and-done freshman at Duke has finished his second semester in good academic standings. In fact, every early entry NBA guy from Duke, except one, left in good academic standings. The only exception was sophomore William Avery, who did stop going to class and essentially drop out of school midway through his final semester.

(2) Roy to the NBA? Maybe a decade ago ...but with his age and recent health issues, I'd be VERY surprised if any NBA team was seriously interested in Ol' Roy these days.

(3) Cat Barber actually told Luke DeCock of the Raleigh newspaper that he was going to test the NBA waters on the Monday before the ACC Tournament. I had a long discussion about that with an NC State insider in Washington and he told me that Barber would go if he could be guaranteed a first round pick -- but would return if he remained a second-round projection. I mentioned that to an NBA scout who told me that the State people were fooling themselves and that Barber was gone. We'll see.

[Troublemaker]

I tend to agree with you. If we lived in a perfect world, I would (in theory) make the kids go to college for 4 years, develop their games, AND get an education (and degree) that might do them some good in the long run. But as we all know, we don't live in such a world and I'm not sure why, of if, the NBA should require someone to wait one year after high school before being eligible for the NBA draft. It seems to me a completely arbitrary rule that makes no sense for the NBA OR (some) of the players. There are some kids who might be better off to go directly from HS to the NBA. Why make them wait one year?

Oh, it's for evaluation purposes. Back in the days of high schoolers going straight to the NBA, there were too many misevaluations on guys like Kwame Brown and Jonathan Bender. Owners were tired of making huge investments in unknown prospects, and the addition of one year of being able to evaluate them at an intermediate level between HS and NBA has been invaluable to scouting departments. Take this season, for example. If there were no 1-and-done rule, it's possible Labissiere would've been the overall #1 draft pick, Cheick Diallo a top-5 pick, Malik Newman a mid-1st round pick, etc.

[crf30]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/03/21/yale-makai-mason-declaring-2016-nba-draft

I haven't seen him on any boards, but I guess if you think you have a shot it doesn't hurt to test the waters. Although I don't really see him jumping into the first round. Would it even be worth it to leave school early to be a mid to late second rounder?

[monkey]

Oh, it's for evaluation purposes. Back in the days of high schoolers going straight to the NBA, there were too many misevaluations on guys like Kwame Brown and Jonathan Bender. Owners were tired of making huge investments in unknown prospects, and the addition of one year of being able to evaluate them at an intermediate level between HS and NBA has been invaluable to scouting departments. Take this season, for example. If there were no 1-and-done rule, it's possible Labissiere would've been the overall #1 draft pick, Cheick Diallo a top-5 pick, Malik Newman a mid-1st round pick, etc.

Agree with this. The age rule is for the benefit of the NBA owners and GMs - not just because of misevaluations but because no one wanted to be the guy who passed on the "next Kobe Bryant" or "next Kevin Garnett" so they were drafting on potential alone, even if the player wasn't ready to be a contributor at that time, with lots of misses as a result. As the player develops further (in college or abroad), they don't have to pay him and when they finally do pay him, the quality of play is more high caliber, increasing watchability ... Side benefit to the NBA franchises - player playing in college builds up a broader rep/fan base, which increases interest and merchandise sales.

BTW, the above all argues in favor of raising the age limit another year which provides all the same benefits but more. The players union (as far as I know) has thus far been resistant insofar as the very ocassional exceptional talent (LeBron James) is hurt by this rule...

[BobBender]

Why is it pathetic? Simmons never wanted to go to college but was forced to by a pretty dumb NBA rule. He could have gone to China or [place country here] for 8 months, but college gives you a lot more exposure.

I can't blame Simmons for doing what he did. It's not his fault that he couldn't go directly to the NBA out of high school.

Yes, good word, he got "exposed" this year. I'm surprised he will even stay at the #2 pick. He has shown none of the heart of a guy that you want to build a team around. As for his game, it is so far from a finished product. In a good draft year, he might not go in the top 6

[NashvilleDevil]

Oh, it's for evaluation purposes. Back in the days of high schoolers going straight to the NBA, there were too many misevaluations on guys like Kwame Brown and Jonathan Bender. Owners were tired of making huge investments in unknown prospects, and the addition of one year of being able to evaluate them at an intermediate level between HS and NBA has been invaluable to scouting departments. Take this season, for example. If there were no 1-and-done rule, it's possible Labissiere would've been the overall #1 draft pick, Cheick Diallo a top-5 pick, Malik Newman a mid-1st round pick, etc.

I think Bender would have been a multiple all star if he didn't have the knee problems. I don't think he was misevaluated like Kwame.

[NYBri]

Meanwhile, Brandon Ingram to Anaheim to "prepare for the draft."



Posting gold.

[oldnavy]

(1) It is my understanding that every one-and-done freshman at Duke has finished his second semester in good academic standings. In fact, every early entry NBA guy from Duke, except one, left in good academic standings. The only exception was sophomore William Avery, who did stop going to class and essentially drop out of school midway through his final semester.

(2) Roy to the NBA? Maybe a decade ago ...but with his age and recent health issues, I'd be VERY surprised if any NBA team was seriously interested in Ol' Roy these days.(3) Cat Barber actually told Luke DeCock of the Raleigh newspaper that he was going to test the NBA waters on the Monday before the ACC Tournament. I had a long discussion about that with an NC State insider in Washington and he told me that Barber would go if he could be guaranteed a first round pick -- but would return if he remained a second-round projection. I mentioned that to an NBA scout who told me that the State people were fooling themselves and that Barber was gone. We'll see.

What NBA team would be stupid enough to hire Roy? Can you imagine Roy using his 10 man rotation style in the pros?

I would love to see it happen, just for the laughs because it would be a disaster.

[luburch]

What NBA team would be stupid enough to hire Roy? Can you imagine Roy using his 10 man rotation style in the pros?

I would love to see it happen, just for the laughs because it would be a disaster.

FWIW, most NBA teams play 10+ players during the regular season.

[BeachBlueDevil]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/03/21/yale-makai-mason-declaring-2016-nba-draft

I haven't seen him on any boards, but I guess if you think you have a shot it doesn't hurt to test the waters. Although I don't really see him jumping into the first round. Would it even be worth it to leave school early to be a mid to late second rounder?

I'd venture to say he'll be back next year. He's only a Sophomore and I think another year could do him some good. He'll have to play PG in the NBA and from what I've seen he could develop those skills a little bit more.

[Edouble]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/03/21/yale-makai-mason-declaring-2016-nba-draft

I haven't seen him on any boards, but I guess if you think you have a shot it doesn't hurt to test the waters. Although I don't really see him jumping into the first round. Would it even be worth it to leave school early to be a mid to late second rounder?

He doesn't even need to test the waters. As an Ivy Leaguer, he's not a scholarship player.

[grad_devil]

He doesn't even need to test the waters. As an Ivy Leaguer, he's not a scholarship player.

It's not the scholarship money that's at issue - it's his amateurism.

[Pghdukie]

What NBA team would be stupid enough to hire Roy? Can you imagine Roy using his 10 man rotation style in the pros?

I would love to see it happen, just for the laughs because it would be a disaster.

Michael what's his name !

[Jeffrey]

Michael what's his name !

Hasn't he run out of mistakes?

[CDu]

I haven't raised this issue before, but I wonder what kind of deal Simmons made with LSU. He played in games, but he played Simmons ball, not team ball. Why did he bring the ball up the court? Did LSU need a 6'10" point guard? Where was the coaching? Where was the coach? Can you imagine a Duke player getting away with playing his own game, to the exclusion of the team?
In normal circumstances, discipline can be imposed by a ride on the pine. I didn't see that going on with Simmons. I guess that he cut a deal before signing with LSU that spelled out how little he had to do, and how much he would play. I also guess that that approach is against NCAA rules.

I think the bigger issue was that LSU doesn't have a real coach. If anything, I would say that Simmons was UNDERused. The Tigers have a "roll the balls out and let'em play" coach. They should have run the offense through Simmons, but quite frequently he would go minutes on end without touching the ball. So when he did get it he felt it necessary to make a spectacular pass.

I think Simmons will benefit a lot by going to the NBA. He can be a mismatch 4 or 5 in a smallball lineup given his skills. If he learne to shoot, he could be a better Draymond Green. But the LSU experience clearly went poorly.

[Olympic Fan]

Packpride is now reporting that Cat Barber will soon hire an agent and will definitely stay in the draft:

http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina-state/story/1654279-cat-barber-to-remain-in-the-nba-draft

No big surprise there, but new news.

[CDu]

Packpride is now reporting that Cat Barber will soon hire an agent and will definitely stay in the draft:

http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina-state/story/1654279-cat-barber-to-remain-in-the-nba-draft

No big surprise there, but new news.

Not shocking, but disappointing. State would have looked quite good with Smith, Henderson, and Dorn added to the mix along with Barber and Abu. A lot of "what could have beens" for State. Had Lacey stayed and Henderson been healthy, this year looks a lot different. If Barber stayed next year would look very different. Oh well.

[superdave]

Caleb Swanigngan in

(or out, not sure which it is....)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15046851/caleb-swanigan-purdue-boilermakers-declares-nba-draft

[BD80]

Caleb Swanigngan in

(or out, not sure which it is...)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15046851/caleb-swanigan-purdue-boilermakers-declares-nba-draft

He won't hire an agent, but will be with his guardian, a registered (NFL) agent.

[Merlindevildog91]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/nc-state-junior-anthony-cat-barber-to-remain-in-nba-draft/15591345/

I didn't realize he had a child to consider. Hopefully things work out for him.

[Olympic Fan]

Should add Eric Dunn to the list ... he's hiring an agent, so he's gone, gone, gone.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Should add Eric Dunn to the list ... he's hiring an agent, so he's gone, gone, gone.

I assume you meant Kris Dunn?

[Olympic Fan]

I assume you meant Kris Dunn?

Oops ... yes.

[SCMatt33]

Does anyone know if the rule is still in place where you can only test the waters once, or can you do it as many times as you want now? I assume the old rules are still in place as they technically never got rid of testing the waters, just made the withdrawal date unreasonably early.

[Henderson]

Caleb Swanigngan in

(or out, not sure which it is...)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15046851/caleb-swanigan-purdue-boilermakers-declares-nba-draft


He won't hire an agent, but will be with his guardian, a registered (NFL) agent.

Man, that guy could sure use another year of college coaching. Some guys just can't afford it, or aren't doing well academically in college. So I don't second-guess their judgments, and I won't second-guess his. But unlike some guys who seem to be NBA ready or have peaked in terms of marketability, this guy really has potential, and I think with good coaching he could significantly improve his pro prospects (NBA or Int'l). I'd liked to have seen what he could have done for Duke this year, and what the Duke coaching staff could have done for him. I hope in the end he chooses wisely and feels that Purdue was his best college choice. But I just have this sense of lost opportunity.

[Olympic Fan]

Does anyone know if the rule is still in place where you can only test the waters once, or can you do it as many times as you want now? I assume the old rules are still in place as they technically never got rid of testing the waters, just made the withdrawal date unreasonably early.

Actually, the new rule has no limitation -- you can test the water as many times as you want, without penalty.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Actually, the new rule has no limitation -- you can test the water as many times as you want, without penalty.

Why doesn't ever Duke player do this, then (or every college basketball player)? Sounds like a great opportunity to understand what scouts think about you and get a little more info into your game. It's free advise for the NBA directly, right?

[jgehtland]

Why doesn't ever Duke player do this, then (or every college basketball player)? Sounds like a great opportunity to understand what scouts think about you and get a little more info into your game. It's free advise for the NBA directly, right?

Because it isn't free. You have to fly to the combine, stay in hotels, etc. etc. Can add up to a bunch of money, and if you aren't serious about it, could be a big waste.

And if somebody covers your expenses, and you come back to school, that's a violation.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Packpride is now reporting that Cat Barber will soon hire an agent and will definitely stay in the draft:

http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina-state/story/1654279-cat-barber-to-remain-in-the-nba-draft

No big surprise there, but new news.

Cat in high school drew a lot of comparisons to Allen Iverson. Both from the same area, both very quick, both can score and each are of slight build (Cat is not nearly as small as AI). It doesn't surprise me that Cat is leaving, where he grew up is a rough area and by going to the NBA he can change not only his child's life but his families as well. I wish him the best and hope he makes the Hampton Roads area proud while in the NBA.

[Ichabod Drain]

Because it isn't free. You have to fly to the combine, stay in hotels, etc. etc. Can add up to a bunch of money, and if you aren't serious about it, could be a big waste.

And if somebody covers your expenses, and you come back to school, that's a violation.

Also I believe the combine is an invitational thing. Usually around 60 players are invited so it's not like every guy who declares can just show up and try to be noticed. You don't have to go to the combine to be drafted but if you're not invited you should take that as a pretty clear sign to stay in school.

[Jeffrey]

Cat in high school drew a lot of comparisons to Allen Iverson. Both from the same area, both very quick, both can score and each are of slight build (Cat is not nearly as small as AI). It doesn't surprise me that Cat is leaving, where he grew up is a rough area and by going to the NBA he can change not only his child's life but his families as well. I wish him the best and hope he makes the Hampton Roads area proud while in the NBA.

Fortunately, Cat was a much better high school person than Allen Iverson. It's very likely Cat will continue to be a much better Hampton Roads and Newport News representative than Allen Iverson or Michael Vick.

[CDu]

Because it isn't free. You have to fly to the combine, stay in hotels, etc. etc. Can add up to a bunch of money, and if you aren't serious about it, could be a big waste.

And if somebody covers your expenses, and you come back to school, that's a violation.

You don't have to go to the combine to test the waters. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the combine is after the deadline to return to college anyway.

Testing the waters can include the following "free" things from the player's perspective:
- getting the appraisal document from the NBA that assesses perceived strengths/weaknesses and potential draft stock
- having scouts come to watch individual workouts with you near your campus
- calls with NBA GMs/scouts/coaches to see about what they think of you

[Henderson]

Also I believe the combine is an invitational thing. Usually around 60 players are invited so it's not like every guy who declares can just show up and try to be noticed. You don't have to go to the combine to be drafted but if you're not invited you should take that as a pretty clear sign to stay in school.

Or play professionally someplace other than the NBA. Some guys need a paycheck. Some guys feel as though they have maxed out their marketability. Some guys would love to live abroad rather than stay in school.

Every year as the draft approaches, the question comes up: "Should John Smith go pro?" But almost all the discussion is around NBA draft position, as in "If you can't be drafted by this position in the NBA, you should go back to school."

That's simplistic in my view.

For one thing, it posits a false dichotomy: The NBA or Back to School. There are lots of really good non-NBA, non-BtS options. And guess what?! They vary from athlete to athlete!

For another thing, going back to school is not a great option for everyone. It could be a non-starter if the guy or his family needs the paycheck or if the guy is marginal in terms of eligibility going forward. Or maybe he's just not that interested.

So I'm begging you: Please don't post that John Smith should go back for his junior year because the best he can do is high second round in the NBA draft.

[kAzE]

You don't have to go to the combine to test the waters. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the combine is after the deadline to return to college anyway.

Testing the waters can include the following "free" things from the player's perspective:
- getting the appraisal document from the NBA that assesses perceived strengths/weaknesses and potential draft stock
- having scouts come to watch individual workouts with you near your campus
- calls with NBA GMs/scouts/coaches to see about what they think of you

Those last 2 bullets are probably not going to happen unless the player in question is a guy who could reasonably be projected to be drafted. No offense to Nick Pagliuca (and this is an extreme example), but if Nick decides to test the NBA draft waters this summer, he's not getting NBA scouts to come watch him work out, and he's not getting phone time with GMs/scouts/coaches.

Makai Mason, for example, might have some trouble getting serious looks from the NBA. He's a nice player, but I personally don't believe he has the athleticism or size to hang with NBA point guards.

[Henderson]

Those last 2 bullets are probably not going to happen unless the player in question is a guy who could reasonably be projected to be drafted. No offense to Nick Pagliuca, but if Nick decides to test the NBA draft waters this summer, he's not getting NBA scouts to come watch him work out, and he's not getting phone time with GMs/scouts/coaches.

You realize that Nick's dad is a Celtics owner, right?

But what if Nick is sick of school and gets an opportunity to play in (say) Italy. Maybe the Italian club wouldn't know he was available if he didn't test the waters.

I'm telling you: This stuff is more complicated than you think.

[kAzE]

You realize that Nick's dad is a Celtics owner, right?

But what if Nick is sick of school and gets an opportunity to play in (say) Italy. Maybe the Italian club wouldn't know he was available if he didn't test the waters.

I'm telling you: This stuff is more complicated than you think.

Yeah, makes sense. Just trying to make a point that getting face time with NBA personnel can't be that easy. (Unless you count Nick's dad)

Okay, maybe Nick can get his dad to come down to Durham and watch him work out.

[Ichabod Drain]

Or play professionally someplace other than the NBA. Some guys need a paycheck. Some guys feel as though they have maxed out their marketability. Some guys would love to live abroad rather than stay in school.

Every year as the draft approaches, the question comes up: "Should John Smith go pro?" But almost all the discussion is around NBA draft position, as in "If you can't be drafted by this position in the NBA, you should go back to school."

That's simplistic in my view.

For one thing, it posits a false dichotomy: The NBA or Back to School. There are lots of really good non-NBA, non-BtS options. And guess what?! They vary from athlete to athlete!

For another thing, going back to school is not a great option for everyone. It could be a non-starter if the guy or his family needs the paycheck or if the guy is marginal in terms of eligibility going forward. Or maybe he's just not that interested.

So I'm begging you: Please don't post that John Smith should go back for his junior year because the best he can do is high second round in the NBA draft.

The discussion was about the rules allowing players to talk to NBA teams, try out, go to the combine and the potentially come back to school. If a player want's to go overseas instead of come back to school then he will probably hire an agent and none of the new rules matter to him. Sure a kid can go over seas and not come back to school but that's not what we were talking about.

[Henderson]

The discussion was about the rules allowing players to talk to NBA teams, try out, go to the combine and the potentially come back to school. If a player want's to go overseas instead of come back to school the he will probably hire an agent and then none of the new rules matter to him. Sure a kid can go over seas and not come back to school but that's not what we were talking about.

It's that silo way of thinking that I'm arguing against. It's just not that simple. Some guys want to know where they stand to know whether to go NBA, go international, go to school, or go do something else. Testing the NBA waters is a way of doing all of that. When to hire an agent? How did the combine go? Should I stay in? What are my options here? And what about my family? All the time they're talking about international prospects and money. And on top of all that, each player's considerations in that complex matrix are different.

I guess you could just ignore all the complexities of reality and focus exclusively on one isolated decision point among many (NBA or college), but I have no idea why intentional oversimplification is fun or interesting.

[Ichabod Drain]

It's that silo way of thinking that I'm arguing against. It's just not that simple. Some guys want to know where they stand to know whether to go NBA, go international, go to school, or go do something else. Testing the NBA waters is a way of doing all of that. When to hire an agent? How did the combine go? Should I stay in? What are my options here? And what about my family? All the time they're talking about international prospects and money. And on top of all that, each player's considerations in that complex matrix are different.

I guess you could just ignore all the complexities of reality and focus exclusively on one isolated decision point among many (NBA or college), but I have no idea why intentional oversimplification is fun or interesting.

I was discussing the new rule put in place by the NCAA. The rule is for college basketball players who would like to declare for the NBA draft and potentially return to play college basketball. The NCAA has rules regarding international professional play but none of those rules have been changed so that's why I did not address it. Not because it was forgotten or because I choose to ignore the complexities of reality. I also chose not to discuss the possibility of student athletes leaving college early to manage a putt-putt in Tupelo Mississippi because there was no rule change regarding that either. Maybe one day though.

[Merlindevildog91]

Fortunately, Cat was a much better high school person than Allen Iverson. It's very likely Cat will continue to be a much better Hampton Roads and Newport News representative than Allen Iverson or Michael Vick.

As a former resident of Tidewater, I certainly hope so.

[Jeffrey]

As a former resident of Tidewater, I certainly hope so.

I predict bowlers and dogs will be much safer around Cat.

[SCMatt33]

Kentucky has declared, walk-ons included. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/23/calipari-everybodys-turning-pro-now/82179778/) This just took care of all of those hypotheticals we've been discussing

[dukelifer]

Kentucky has declared, walk-ons included. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/23/calipari-everybodys-turning-pro-now/82179778/) This just took care of all of those hypotheticals we've been discussing

Cal's job is to prepare kids for the next level- not to win championships.

[Jeffrey]

Cal's job is to prepare kids for the next level- not to win championships.

Do the first and you'll probably do both.

[BD80]

Kentucky has declared, walk-ons included. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/23/calipari-everybodys-turning-pro-now/82179778/) This just took care of all of those hypotheticals we've been discussing

But, but, but ...

Won't they miss classes?

I crack myself up sometimes

[Jeffrey]

But, but, but ...

Won't they miss classes?



They're not allowed to miss classes! Like UNC, UK expects their walk-ons to attend classes.

[Henderson]

I was discussing the new rule put in place by the NCAA. The rule is for college basketball players who would like to declare for the NBA draft and potentially return to play college basketball. The NCAA has rules regarding international professional play but none of those rules have been changed so that's why I did not address it. Not because it was forgotten or because I choose to ignore the complexities of reality. I also chose not to discuss the possibility of student athletes leaving college early to manage a putt-putt in Tupelo Mississippi because there was no rule change regarding that either. Maybe one day though.

Here's what you posted:

"You don't have to go to the [NBA] combine to be drafted, but f you're not invited that's a pretty clear signal you should stay in school."

If you want to stand by that statement, fine. I just strongly disagree. There is a lot to life for these young men between the NBA and managing a putt-putt in Tupelo. You've created a very simplistic duality: NBA or school. Or is it a "triality": NBA, college, or loser? Those are the choices?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kentucky has declared, walk-ons included. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/23/calipari-everybodys-turning-pro-now/82179778/) This just took care of all of those hypotheticals we've been discussing

This is incredibly smart. Hope Zcoach K does that as well. Why not get a scouting report and work with some NBA teams while retaining your eligibility?

[jimsumner]

This dilemma can be seen through the prism of Trevor Lacey, the former NC State star.

Despite a conspicuous lack of interest by the NBA, Lacey declared for the NBA after his redshirt junior season, with a year of eligibility left at NC State, where he was badly missed this season.

He went undrafted and ended up playing in Italy.

Terrible decision, right?

But.

Lacey was an academic senior. He was 23 years old and turned 24 about the time the pro season started. His clock was ticking and there was no guarantee another year in Raleigh would have helped his NBA prospects. He's not in the NBA and he may never be. But he's getting paid to play basketball and you can make a pretty decent living in the better Euro leagues.

So, maybe not such a terrible decision after all.

And yes, in general, I think the more information anyone has before making an import decision, the better.

If you think this is tough on college basketball coaches, consider the plight of a college baseball coach, at least at the highest level. You scout, evaluate, recruit and sign a top prospect. But all of these guys are eligible for the MLB draft. But they don't have to declare or anything. They are drafted in June, two months before classes start. If you lose a guy or two, it's hard to replace them. If you lose a bunch, then it's really hard. And of course, you have the same dynamics with your juniors. Chris Pollard absolutely guaranteed me last June that James Marvel would be back for his senior year. A week later, Marvel signed with the pros.

I don't really have a solution for any of this. That's part of the Faustian bargain we make for having college sports as feeder systems for professional sports.

[Ichabod Drain]

Here's what you posted:

"You don't have to go to the [NBA] combine to be drafted, but f you're not invited that's a pretty clear signal you should stay in school."

If you want to stand by that statement, fine. I just strongly disagree. There is a lot to life for these young men between the NBA and managing a putt-putt in Tupelo. You've created a very simplistic duality: NBA or school. Or is it a "triality": NBA, college, or loser? Those are the choices?

The chain of posts I responded to started with this.


Does anyone know if the rule is still in place where you can only test the waters once, or can you do it as many times as you want now? I assume the old rules are still in place as they technically never got rid of testing the waters, just made the withdrawal date unreasonably early.

Context is important. It was a question about the new rule and I was responding under that scope. You're arguing against a something that never happened. I have no issue with players going over seas or doing whatever they want outside of basketball. Please stop using my words out of context so you can stand on a soapbox for a point I've never argued against.

[CDu]

Those last 2 bullets are probably not going to happen unless the player in question is a guy who could reasonably be projected to be drafted. No offense to Nick Pagliuca (and this is an extreme example), but if Nick decides to test the NBA draft waters this summer, he's not getting NBA scouts to come watch him work out, and he's not getting phone time with GMs/scouts/coaches.

Makai Mason, for example, might have some trouble getting serious looks from the NBA. He's a nice player, but I personally don't believe he has the athleticism or size to hang with NBA point guards.

Yes, obviously a complete nobody won't get those opportunities. I was talking more about the guys in the theoretical top-100 or so prospects. Those guys - especially those in the 25-100 range - absolutely could get that level of contact with team scouts. And those are the guys who stand to benefit most from the test-the-waters opportunities.

[SCMatt33]

This is incredibly smart. Hope Zcoach K does that as well. Why not get a scouting report and work with some NBA teams while retaining your eligibility?

Most won't get to work with NBA teams. NBA teams aren't going to invite every player to the combine or to individual work outs. At most, the kids who have no chance will presumably take part in Kentucky's pro day style event, which I assume they will have again this year. I'm sure some of the scouts will give some advice to these kids on their game so why not, but most won't pay too much attention to them and simply tell them there isn't any current NBA interest.

On a related note, I'll be curious to see if the NBA expands the number of combine invitees at all. If not, there are probably some underclassmen who are borderline and might return who squeeze seniors just hoping to make the second round out of a combine invite.

[kAzE]

So, am I crazy, or is Buddy Hield way underrated by scouting services? I'd take him #3 with no hesitation. That dude can ball.

[Kedsy]

So, am I crazy, or is Buddy Hield way underrated by scouting services? I'd take him #3 with no hesitation. That dude can ball.

An undersized (6'4", 215) SG is not the sort of player that NBA GMs tend to take with such an early pick. I think late lottery seems more realistic.

That said, it looks like NBADraftNet has him at #3, so I guess you never know.

[kAzE]

An undersized (6'4", 215) SG is not the sort of player that NBA GMs tend to take with such an early pick. I think late lottery seems more realistic.

That said, it looks like NBADraftNet has him at #3, so I guess you never know.

6'4" 215 is undersized? I feel like that's starting to become more the norm for shooting guards. He's taller than Jamaal Murray, and in the current NBA, I would value talented guards and wings more than big men, especially a guy who can shoot it like Buddy. I'd take him over Ellenson and Poeltl, don't know much about Bender.

Of anyone in the tournament, I think Hield has shown the most NBA ready game. He's making moves to create his own shot that will work at the next level. I'm buying as much Buddy Hield stock as I can right now.

[FerryFor50]

6'4" 215 is undersized? I feel like that's starting to become more the norm for shooting guards. He's taller than Jamaal Murray, and in the current NBA, I would value talented guards and wings more than big men.

Of anyone in the tournament, I think Hield has shown the most NBA ready game. He's making moves to create his own shot that will work at the next level. I'm buying as much Buddy Hield stock as I can right now.

6'4" is undersized in the NBA for a shooting guard (at least one you'd draft at a high pick).

Kobe Bryant is 6'6"
Michael Jordan was 6'6"
James Harden is 6'5"
Kawahi Leonard is 6'7"
Jimmy Butler is 6'7"
Klay Thompson is 6'7"
Demar DeRozen is 6'7"

There are exceptions, of course, but those guys are more hybrid 1/2 guards like Monte Ellis (6'3") and are usually crazy athletic. JJ Redick is 6'4" and look how long it took him to break into a rotation. Not to mention being drafted at #11 despite being a more prolific college scorer than Hield.

Hield hasn't shown crazy athleticism IMO. He can shoot. He can score. If he's closer to James Harden's height, that's what I think Hield's ceiling is. (which, admittedly, is really good)

I see Hield as a likely top 10-15 pick, but hard to see him as a top 5.

[kAzE]

6'4" is undersized in the NBA for a shooting guard (at least one you'd draft at a high pick).

Kobe Bryant is 6'6"
Michael Jordan was 6'6"
James Harden is 6'5"
Kawahi Leonard is 6'7"
Jimmy Butler is 6'7"
Klay Thompson is 6'7"
Demar DeRozen is 6'7"

There are exceptions, of course, but those guys are more hybrid 1/2 guards like Monte Ellis (6'3") and are usually crazy athletic. JJ Redick is 6'4" and look how long it took him to break into a rotation. Not to mention being drafted at #11 despite being a more prolific college scorer than Hield.

Hield hasn't shown crazy athleticism IMO. He can shoot. He can score. If he's closer to James Harden's height, that's what I think Hield's ceiling is. (which, admittedly, is really good)

I see Hield as a likely top 10-15 pick, but hard to see him as a top 5.

I don't really see the JJ Redick comparison as an accurate one. Buddy is about the same height as JJ, but JJ has one of the shortest wingspans in the NBA at just 6'3.25"

Buddy has much more length, with a 6'8.5" wingspan, which also helps him out as a defender. He also has aforementioned NBA ready moves:

- The step back jumper
- The turnaround/post fade jumper
- The pull-up mid range jumper

In a normal draft, yes, he's probably not considered in the top 5 based on physical limitations, but who are you taking before this guy in 2016? He's almost surely going to average 18-20 ppg at some point in his career. I think Jamaal Murray is the only guy I'd even consider at #3 before Buddy, due to his age. MAYBE Kris Dunn. But in today's NBA, shooting is valued above all else. Buddy is the best shooter in the draft.

[BD80]

Kentucky has declared, walk-ons included. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/23/calipari-everybodys-turning-pro-now/82179778/) This just took care of all of those hypotheticals we've been discussing

Brey has a pretty good wit, when asked about calipari's "announcement":

"Well, (Calipari) is not getting any pub here lately, because he's not playing," Notre Dame coach Mike Brey said Thursday from the NCAA Tournament East Regional. "So he's doing anything to stay out there. The guy's a master. He's a master."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25529379/why-mike-brey-says-john-calipari-is-a-master-after-draft-move

[jv001]

Guess this is a good place as any to post this.
Grayson makes 2nd team All American on CBS AA teams. Brandon makes 3rd team. The crazy thing is Simmons was their Freshman of the year. No way was he or is he as good as Brandon. Way off base with that choice. GoDuke!

[JNort]

6'4" is undersized in the NBA for a shooting guard (at least one you'd draft at a high pick).

Kobe Bryant is 6'6"
Michael Jordan was 6'6"
James Harden is 6'5"
Kawahi Leonard is 6'7"
Jimmy Butler is 6'7"
Klay Thompson is 6'7"
Demar DeRozen is 6'7"

There are exceptions, of course, but those guys are more hybrid 1/2 guards like Monte Ellis (6'3") and are usually crazy athletic. JJ Redick is 6'4" and look how long it took him to break into a rotation. Not to mention being drafted at #11 despite being a more prolific college scorer than Hield.

Hield hasn't shown crazy athleticism IMO. He can shoot. He can score. If he's closer to James Harden's height, that's what I think Hield's ceiling is. (which, admittedly, is really good)

I see Hield as a likely top 10-15 pick, but hard to see him as a top 5.

Kobe was at the OK game and stood with Buddy Hield and they were the exact same height. So either Buddy has really think shoes or Kobe was barefoot

[MChambers]

Kobe was at the OK game and stood with Buddy Hield and they were the exact same height. So either Buddy has really think shoes or Kobe was barefoot

Maybe Kobe's lost an inch or two of tread over the years.

[Nugget]

Interesting ... my sources at Florida State have believed all season that Dwayne Bacon was 100 percent one and done, but they had thought that there was a chance that Beasley (who comes from a wealthy, successful family) would return for a second year.

It will be interesting to track the ACC kids who enter the draft early this year. For now we have two:

Jaron Blossomgame of Clemson (testing the waters, might come back) and now Beasley (expected to stay in the draft).

Also almost certain to jump (but not yet declared):
Brandon Ingram (Duke)
Dwayne Bacon (FSU)
Cat Barber (NC State)

Expected to at least test the waters:
Grayson Allen (Duke)
Xavier Rathan-Mayes (FSU)
Demetrious Jackson (Notre Dame)

Of course, with the new rules -- allowing players to declare, work out for pro teams, then return to college without penalty (as long as they do not formally hire an agent) -- I would expect half a dozen other players to test the NBA waters this spring.

Lots of NBA draft announcements last 24 hours. A key factor will be keeping straight who is hiring an agent vs. who maintains the option to come back.

From today at least:

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV


Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame

[dukelifer]

Kobe was at the OK game and stood with Buddy Hield and they were the exact same height. So either Buddy has really think shoes or Kobe was barefoot

Kobe is definitely taller by at least two inches if not more

[CDu]

Kobe was at the OK game and stood with Buddy Hield and they were the exact same height. So either Buddy has really think shoes or Kobe was barefoot


Maybe Kobe's lost an inch or two of tread over the years.

Either that or Kobe was slouching. Or Hield's hair makes him look taller. I suspect that Bryant is 2-3 inches taller than Hield.

[DukeTrinity11]

Demetrius Jackson is not coming back to Notre Dame, he's hiring an agent and moving forward with the process.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2016/story/_/id/15094869/demetrius-jackson-notre-dame-fighting-irish-declares-nba-draft

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Devin Williams, West Virginia
DeAndre Bembry, St. Josephs

Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Demetrius Jackson is not coming back to Notre Dame, he's hiring an agent and moving forward with the process.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2016/story/_/id/15094869/demetrius-jackson-notre-dame-fighting-irish-declares-nba-draft

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Devin Williams, West Virginia
DeAndre Bembry, St. Josephs

Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
You forgot the entire undergraduate population at Univ of Kentucky.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Either that or Kobe was slouching. Or Hield's hair makes him look taller. I suspect that Bryant is 2-3 inches taller than Hield.
"Let's look at the play. He's 6'5. With the Afro, 6'9."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7AUpGXLDdk

[luburch]

Brian Snow of Scout tweeted this yesterday:

"For the record, general consensus here among the NBA folks is Ingram will be the No. 1 pick in June, fwiw"

[flyingdutchdevil]

Brian Snow of Scout tweeted this yesterday:

"For the record, general consensus here among the NBA folks is Ingram will be the No. 1 pick in June, fwiw"

Color me intrigued by this debate. In the last two years, I was convinced that Wiggins and KAT would be top picks of their respective draft. And up until a few weeks ago, I was convinced that Simmons would be #1 as well. But Simmons's attitude issues (I blame the coaching staff moreso than Simmons) and lack of shooting coupled with Ingram's length, shooting, and consistency has really made this an interesting debate.

However, I will say that I don't care if Ingram gets drafted 1, 2, or even 3. I care that he doesn't end up on the 76ers. But I have a feeling that he will :(

[Ichabod Drain]

Color me intrigued by this debate. In the last two years, I was convinced that Wiggins and KAT would be top picks of their respective draft. And up until a few weeks ago, I was convinced that Simmons would be #1 as well. But Simmons's attitude issues (I blame the coaching staff moreso than Simmons) and lack of shooting coupled with Ingram's length, shooting, and consistency has really made this an interesting debate.

However, I will say that I don't care if Ingram gets drafted 1, 2, or even 3. I care that he doesn't end up on the 76ers. But I have a feeling that he will :(

I felt similarly about the Simmons situation but the fact that he just dropped out of school really got to me. Even if he had issues with the coaches him leaving school early is letting down his teammates who will be at LSU the next few years and any incoming players as well. That's just not cool.

[Indoor66]

However, I will say that I don't care if Ingram gets drafted 1, 2, or even 3. I care that he doesn't end up on the 76ers. But I have a feeling that he will :(

If he is going to go 1, the 76ers have to win the draw in the lottery. No guaranty there.

[Li_Duke]

I wonder if the D'Angelo Russell story is going to play a factor. Immaturity and being a bad teammate may out-weigh talent and potential.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15095276/dangelo-russell-center-los-angeles-lakers-rift-video-took-nick-young-made-public

[kAzE]

I wonder if the D'Angelo Russell story is going to play a factor. Immaturity and being a bad teammate may out-weigh talent and potential.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15095276/dangelo-russell-center-los-angeles-lakers-rift-video-took-nick-young-made-public

Man, what a horrible situation. I wonder if they will consider trading him. That doesn't seem like a rift that is going to heal anytime soon. But then again, being a Duke kid doesn't make you immune to immaturity, as Jahlil Okafor has demonstrated. What Russell did is beyond just being immature though, that's really unforgivable if you're his teammate. How would you ever trust him again?

[MCFinARL]

Man, what a horrible situation. I wonder if they will consider trading him. That doesn't seem like a rift that is going to heal anytime soon. But then again, being a Duke kid doesn't make you immune to immaturity, as Jahlil Okafor has demonstrated. What Russell did is beyond just being immature though, that's really unforgivable if you're his teammate. How would you ever trust him again?

Yes, I think you are right. Okafor's immaturity can hurt his team indirectly, but it mostly hurts him. Russell's, in this case, directly hurt a specific teammate and the whole team's chemistry (what there was of it, anyway) as well. Both are boneheaded, but Russell's, I think, will be harder to recover from.

[cato]

Yes, I think you are right. Okafor's immaturity can hurt his team indirectly, but it mostly hurts him. Russell's, in this case, directly hurt a specific teammate and the whole team's chemistry (what there was of it, anyway) as well. Both are boneheaded, but Russell's, I think, will be harder to recover from.

Well, the teammate is responsible for what he said and did. But yeah, I can see how revealing that to the world would not be appreciated in a locker room filled with a bunch of dudes.

[kAzE]

Well, the teammate is responsible for what he said and did. But yeah, I can see how revealing that to the world would not be appreciated in a locker room filled with a bunch of dudes.

This falls under the same category as the Danny Ferry situation. You don't say stuff like that when you know you're being taped. Nick Young thought he was just having a conversation with his buddy. Did he do things that he probably shouldn't be proud of? Of course, but that's his own business, and other than his fiancee, I don't think he deserves any flak for this.

[cato]

This falls under the same category as the Danny Ferry situation. You don't say stuff like that when you know you're being taped. Nick Young thought he was just having a conversation with his buddy. Did he do things that he probably shouldn't be proud of? Of course, but that's his own business, and other than his fiancee, I don't think he deserves any flak for this.

I don't see any parallel to Ferry. Agree that Russell deserves contempt for secretly recording a conversation though.

As for Young: if you can't serve the time . . .

[JasonEvans]

my sources at Florida State have believed all season that Dwayne Bacon was 100 percent one and done,

I have not seen anyone mention this, but Bacon has shocked everyone by saying he will come back to FSU (http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/mensbasketball/2016/03/28/fsus-dwayne-bacon-returning-school-instead-testing-nba-waters/82359014/) for his soph season.

With Bacon and Xavier Rathan-Mays both back and stud forward Jonathan Isaac (top 15 recruit) on his way to Tally, the Noles would expect to be back in the tourney next year. The Noles have a couple good PG prospects coming in too. It will be interesting to see if they can get anything out of 5th year senior 7-1 Michael Ojo, who took a medical redshirt this year.

-Jason "ACC could be very strong next year... and you know who will be at the top!" Evans

[tux]

nbadraft.net has removed Grayson from their 2016 mock draft. He's now a late first rounder in 2017.

Is this based on some inside info or just an educated guess?

[CDu]

nbadraft.net has removed Grayson from their 2016 mock draft. He's now a late first rounder in 2017.

Is this based on some inside info or just an educated guess?

There has been discussion of such things on this board. But we are not supposed to talk about it. Suffice to say that it falls under an educated/well-informed guess. More or less.

[Ichabod Drain]

nbadraft.net has removed Grayson from their 2016 mock draft. He's now a late first rounder in 2017.

Is this based on some inside info or just an educated guess?

Nbadraft.net doesn't seem to be known as a very trustworthy source. Jonathan Givony of draftexpress seems to be the most connected of the mock draft sites. He recently moved Allen from 29 to 31 in his mock draft which doesn't seem like much but the difference between a being selected by a good team in the first round and a bad to mediocre team in the second round can be huge.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He's probably gonna be a Laker or a 76er. We get to choose between the worst locker room in the NBA or the worst team in the NBA.

[kAzE]

He's probably gonna be a Laker or a 76er. We get to choose between the worst locker room in the NBA or the worst team in the NBA.

There's a 44.9% chance it'll be the Lakers or 76ers: http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2016/mockdraft#, still higher chance it'll be another team rather than one of those 2.

I'm rooting for the Bucks, Timberwolves, and Celtics (in that order) to win the lottery.

If the Bucks win, there could be an all-Duke front court in play with Ingram/Parker/MP1!

Giannis at point guard, if you're wondering :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

There's a 44.9% chance it'll be the Lakers or 76ers: http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2016/mockdraft#, still higher chance it'll be another team rather than one of those 2.

I'm rooting for the Bucks, Timberwolves, and Celtics (in that order) to win the lottery.

If the Bucks win, there could be an all-Duke front court in play with Ingram/Parker/MP1!

Giannis at point guard, if you're wondering :)

Ingram would be amazing on either the Timberwolves or the Celtics. Both teams really need wing firepower. Ingram on the Bucks is extremely excessive, but I too like the idea of an all-Duke frontcourt.

[Billy Dat]

He's probably gonna be a Laker or a 76er. We get to choose between the worst locker room in the NBA or the worst team in the NBA.

Philly would be much better by a mile. Despite the ownership getting cold feet and bringing in Colangelo, I think the future is pretty bright.

Brett Brown has been making the podcast circuit (Lowe Post, Vertical with Woj) and seems like a really bright guy who knows what he is doing. Sam Hinkie took some big swings (Saric and Embid) but also stockpiled a ton of assets. LA is a mess from ownership to coach to players. Aside from our guy Jah punching someone, the Philly group seems low maintenance and committed to improvement. Maybe BI will land there just as it's starting to rise.

[Rich]

Poor Ingram

Seriously? Poor Ingram? He's going to be a paid a s-load of $$$ (more money than most of us will have in our lifetimes) to play a game he loves to play. He doesn't have to leave Duke. He's choosing to leave. I wish him all the best, and loved having him this year, but the last thing I feel is sorry for the kid.

[Li_Duke]

If the Bucks win, there could be an all-Duke front court in play with Ingram/Parker/MP1!

Giannis at point guard, if you're wondering :)

Imagine being a guard trying to get a shot off against that line-up. Against Middleton, at 6-7, would be your best chance.

[kAzE]

Ingram would be amazing on either the Timberwolves or the Celtics. Both teams really need wing firepower. Ingram on the Bucks is extremely excessive, but I too like the idea of an all-Duke frontcourt.

The Bucks are more of a personal preference. Just a 1.5 hour drive for me to see BI and Jabari in person :p

Ingram/Towns is the dream. That has all-timer front court pairing potential.

[theschwartz]

As a Duke fan, I too hope that Ingram ends up with a team that has solid coaching, good teammates, and a reasonable chance to compete in the near future. As a Laker fan, though, I'm hoping beyond hope that we get a shot at him. I'd be fine with Simmons too, and he would be an interesting pairing with Russell with two tall playmakers who were high school teammates at Montverde. But yeah, the Laker situation is a complete mess right now. This Russell/Young imbroglio made a terrible season even more of a disaster, and it's hard to imagine too many NBA players being excited to play with a guy that rats out his teammate. That team is surely going to be gutted in the offseason and the coaching staff will be completely different (Bye Byron!). It's a very unstable situation and will be tough for any rookie to navigate, although hopefully the next coach will be more amenable to playing the youngsters.

[duke74]

As a Duke fan, I too hope that Ingram ends up with a team that has solid coaching, good teammates, and a reasonable chance to compete in the near future. As a Laker fan, though, I'm hoping beyond hope that we get a shot at him. I'd be fine with Simmons too, and he would be an interesting pairing with Russell with two tall playmakers who were high school teammates at Montverde. But yeah, the Laker situation is a complete mess right now. This Russell/Young imbroglio made a terrible season even more of a disaster, and it's hard to imagine too many NBA players being excited to play with a guy that rats out his teammate. That team is surely going to be gutted in the offseason and the coaching staff will be completely different (Bye Byron!). It's a very unstable situation and will be tough for any rookie to navigate, although hopefully the next coach will be more amenable to playing the youngsters.

Want the Zen Master back? Please???? And while you're at it, how about CarMElo?

[CDu]

The Bucks are more of a personal preference. Just a 1.5 hour drive for me to see BI and Jabari in person :p

Ingram/Towns is the dream. That has all-timer front court pairing potential.

The Bulls are my choice (big surprise there for those who know me). I am hoping they somehow defy the odds and win the lottery again. Ingram would look real nice between Rose and Butler on the perimeter.

[stillcrazie]

As a Duke fan, I too hope that Ingram ends up with a team that has solid coaching, good teammates, and a reasonable chance to compete in the near future. As a Laker fan, though, I'm hoping beyond hope that we get a shot at him. I'd be fine with Simmons too, and he would be an interesting pairing with Russell with two tall playmakers who were high school teammates at Montverde. But yeah, the Laker situation is a complete mess right now. This Russell/Young imbroglio made a terrible season even more of a disaster, and it's hard to imagine too many NBA players being excited to play with a guy that rats out his teammate. That team is surely going to be gutted in the offseason and the coaching staff will be completely different (Bye Byron!). It's a very unstable situation and will be tough for any rookie to navigate, although hopefully the next coach will be more amenable to playing the youngsters.

I am still bitter that the Lakers didn't take Okafor. I think he would have thrived as LA's big man.

[sagegrouse]

I am still bitter that the Lakers didn't take Okafor. I think he would have thrived as LA's big man.

I believe the Lakers agree with you today.

[theschwartz]

I am still bitter that the Lakers didn't take Okafor. I think he would have thrived as LA's big man.

I hear ya. Was really bummed by the move when it happened, but remember, Lakers were CERTAIN they would be able to sign a marquee free agent big man in the offseason (Aldridge, Love, Jordan). Didn't quite work out so they ended up with Roy Hibbert's corpse.

But hey, if it puts them in position to draft Ingram, then it would have all been worth it!:cool::rolleyes:

[cato]

I am still bitter that the Lakers didn't take Okafor. I think he would have thrived as LA's big man.

Philly is a dumpster fire, but at least they have a plan to extinguish the flames.

The Lakers, meanwhile, appear to be getting advice from the Underpants Gnomes.

[luvdahops]

There's a 44.9% chance it'll be the Lakers or 76ers: http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2016/mockdraft#, still higher chance it'll be another team rather than one of those 2.

I'm rooting for the Bucks, Timberwolves, and Celtics (in that order) to win the lottery.

If the Bucks win, there could be an all-Duke front court in play with Ingram/Parker/MP1!

Giannis at point guard, if you're wondering :)

Despite being a Bulls fan, I am a big fan of the Greek Freak. However, for all his potential, Giannis still has a good ways to go before becoming the next (and much longer) Scottie Pippen, including being trusted to run an offense.

[Furniture]

Despite being a Bulls fan, I am a big fan of the Greek Freak. However, for all his potential, Giannis still has a good ways to go before becoming the next (and much longer) Scottie Pippen, including being trusted to run an offense.

I thought the Bucks coach recently stated that Giannis will run point next year?

[luvdahops]

I thought the Bucks coach recently stated that Giannis will run point next year?

He already has been playing the point frequently over the past few months. But in the handful of games I have seen, he has looked pretty erratic and uncomfortable, though the potential is obvious. I think he is being force fed there right now to a certain extent, because the Bucks have given up on MCW and don't have any other starter-caliber options.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He already has been playing the point frequently over the past few months. But in the handful of games I have seen, he has looked pretty erratic and uncomfortable, though the potential is obvious. I think he is being force fed there right now to a certain extent, because the Bucks have given up on MCW and don't have any other starter-caliber options.

Looks like Tyler Ulis will be a lottery pick, then, especially if Dunn is off the table by time the Bucks select. The Bucks don't need much, other than some depth and a PG who can play PG. Dunn and Ulis are arguably the best pure PGs in the draft (and it's not even that close after that).

[JasonEvans]

Looks like Tyler Ulis will be a lottery pick, then, especially if Dunn is off the table by time the Bucks select. The Bucks don't need much, other than some depth and a PG who can play PG. Dunn and Ulis are arguably the best pure PGs in the draft (and it's not even that close after that).

Whoa... lets not get crazy now. Ulis is a nice prospect and has a good chance to go in the first round, but lottery... I dunno. The Bucks are likely to have something like the 8th-11th pick, almost the middle of the lottery. I just don't see them reaching for Ulis, who is largely projected in the 20s or 30s in most mocks.

I think Dunn, Jamaal Murray, and Demetrius Jackson are all better PG prospects than Ulis. Plenty of people think Wade Baldwin of Vandy is also better than Ulis. Dejounte Murray of Washington is also in the mix among the 2nd tier of PGs. For Ulis, I think it is going to be very difficult for him being 5-9 in a league where you are likely to face plenty of 6-4+ PGs with tons of length.

-Jason "Ulis is a heck of a player, but we are talking about a guy who only hit 34% of his 3s this season... if you are going to be a 5-9 PG, you better be able to shoot lights out" Evans

[kAzE]

Looks like Tyler Ulis will be a lottery pick, then, especially if Dunn is off the table by time the Bucks select. The Bucks don't need much, other than some depth and a PG who can play PG. Dunn and Ulis are arguably the best pure PGs in the draft (and it's not even that close after that).

I've been watching the Bucks all year, and I have to disagree. There's a reason they are in the lottery. They need 3 things in this order of importance:

1. A rim protector. After giving up on Larry Sanders, the Bucks decided to see how a Greg Monroe/Jabari Parker front court would fare this year. It was a disaster on the defensive end. The Bucks are in the bottom 6 of the league for field goals allowed within 5 feet of the basket. Monroe is one of the worst defensive centers in the league and Miles Plumlee started several games towards the end of the season to compensate. John Henson has only just recently gotten healthy again, but doesn't really strike me as a starting caliber center in the NBA (despite his contract, which suggests that he is). Jabari has stepped up his defensive effort since his Duke days, but is still not what you would consider a plus defender at the PF position. If the Bucks intend to go forward with Jabari at the 4, they must acquire a rim protector at center.

2. Shooters. This is one of the worst 3 point shooting teams (maybe THE worst) in the league. Although they averaged a middling 35% on the year as a team, they were dead last in the league at 15.5 attempts per game. For reference, the Warriors average 31.3 attempts per game. Of the team's core players, Jabari, Giannis, MCW, and Greg Monroe are all extremely poor 3 point shooters, and the lack of spacing creates a ton of problems for the Bucks on offense.

3. A point guard who can defend and shoot 3s. A true point guard would be helpful, but given the team's other needs, just a guard who can defend opposing PGs and shoot 3s would be adequate. Jerryd Bayless somewhat fits this profile, though he has struggled to stay healthy all season. Even OJ Mayo has started at PG at times (even when MCW was still healthy) to help space the floor. That should tell you how badly the Bucks needed Bayless to stay on the court.

In my opinion, the MCW trade was a gamble that failed to pay off. He is a good player, but a terrible fit with this roster. Brandon Knight was going to cost the Bucks a lot to keep in free agency, but he was a much better fit with his shooting, aggressive scoring, and play making abilities. The Greg Monroe signing was also a poor fit (though a small market team like the Bucks don't really get many options in free agency), considering Jabari has not yet developed a reliable long distance jumper. The team's best 5 players has just 1 guy (Middleton) who can stretch defenses. Lastly, the team's other scorers would be better in a higher paced offense, and Monroe is not a guy who runs the floor particularly quickly.

If I were the Buck's GM, looking a pick in the #7-11 range, Buddy Hield, Jamaal Murray, Kris Dunn, and Jakob Poeltl are guys I'd be interested in. (In that order) I'd try to move both Greg Monroe and MCW in the off season, as well. Jabari and Giannis are the future of this team, and those guys do not fit well with that core. Those 2 need to be surrounded with shooters.

[kAzE]

Can I call dibs on the Bucks for the DBR mock draft this year? :)

[MCFinARL]

Whoa... lets not get crazy now. Ulis is a nice prospect and has a good chance to go in the first round, but lottery... I dunno. The Bucks are likely to have something like the 8th-11th pick, almost the middle of the lottery. I just don't see them reaching for Ulis, who is largely projected in the 20s or 30s in most mocks.

I think Dunn, Jamaal Murray, and Demetrius Jackson are all better PG prospects than Ulis. Plenty of people think Wade Baldwin of Vandy is also better than Ulis. Dejounte Murray of Washington is also in the mix among the 2nd tier of PGs. For Ulis, I think it is going to be very difficult for him being 5-9 in a league where you are likely to face plenty of 6-4+ PGs with tons of length.

-Jason "Ulis is a heck of a player, but we are talking about a guy who only hit 34% of his 3s this season... if you are going to be a 5-9 PG, you better be able to shoot lights out" Evans

Agree Ulis's prospects as a lottery pick are slim. The bias among NBA teams against players who are short for position--and at 5'9' Ulis is very short for position--is pretty great.

[juise]

Thon Maker to... The Association? (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25541094/thon-maker-to-skip-college-basketball-applies-to-enter-nba-draft)

[diablesseblu]

Thon Maker to... The Association? (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25541094/thon-maker-to-skip-college-basketball-applies-to-enter-nba-draft)

Good grief, if he's declared eligible by the NBA, there will be an explosion of sneaker company sponsored teams/"basketball academies" established in Canada.

[Furniture]

Nice video….

[lotusland]

Good grief, if he's declared eligible by the NBA, there will be an explosion of sneaker company sponsored teams/"basketball academies" established in Canada.

I think the nba may not want their OAD rule tested in court so maybe they let him enter without a fight.

[Indoor66]

I think the nba may not want their OAD rule tested in court so maybe they let him enter without a fight.

And your legal theory to challenge the OAD rule?

[sagegrouse]

And your legal theory to challenge the OAD rule?

Good question. To complete the thought: "... given that it is the outcome of a collective bargaining process between the NBA and NBPA."

[SCMatt33]

I think the nba may not want their OAD rule tested in court so maybe they let him enter without a fight.

Why would the NBA fear a legal challenge. I would think they'd merely see it as a minor inconvenience given that precedent is on their side from the Mike Williams challenge against the NFL three year rule over a decade ago. Additionally, the questions for Maker is more related to what graduating class he belongs to as opposed to trying to circumvent the rule. The prep school route has been posited for years as an option but few have ever considered it because you get the negatives of college (no salary) without the benefits (level of competition, media exposure). The only ones who consider it are those that don't qualify for NCAA athletics, and most of them have chosen the overseas route instead.

As for the ruling itself, I seem to remember last summer that he had not yet graduated as he briefly tried to reclassify before reversing course. He then was to be on track to graduate in the fall and considered joining a college team for the spring in preparation for playing in college for 2016-17. I would assume that if he got his diploma in the fall, the NBA would have to then decide which graduating class he belongs with.

[Channing]

Looks like Thon Maker is making a push to enter the NBA draft this year even though he is still in high school. He makes an interesting case, in that he is a 5th year high school student and already 19 years old. This becomes interesting for Duke fans because, if he is allowed to participate in this NBA draft, it is potentially another player in front of Grayson and push further down the draft board.

(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2629175-thon-maker-will-declare-for-2016-nba-draft-latest-comments-and-reaction)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Separate thread of course, but also relevant here - our man Ingram declares. Gotta figure his classy announcement is one more tick in his favor over Simmons. I wouldn't want to be the GM that picks Ben over Brandon.

[BD80]

Looks like Thon Maker is making a push to enter the NBA draft this year even though he is still in high school. He makes an interesting case, in that he is a 5th year high school student and already 19 years old. This becomes interesting for Duke fans because, if he is allowed to participate in this NBA draft, it is potentially another player in front of Grayson and push further down the draft board.

(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2629175-thon-maker-will-declare-for-2016-nba-draft-latest-comments-and-reaction)

Most important, since Maker chose the NBA before selecting a college, calipari can claim credit for getting him to the show.

[ChillinDuke]

So what's the latest aggregate list? Trying to compile from earlier posts...

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Devin Williams, West Virginia
DeAndre Bembry, St. Josephs
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Caleb Swanigan, Purdue
Cat Barber, NC State
Thon Maker, yeah

Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Makai Mason, Yale

- Chillin

[kAzE]

So what's the latest aggregate list? Trying to compile from earlier posts...

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Devin Williams, West Virginia
DeAndre Bembry, St. Josephs
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Caleb Swanigan, Purdue
Cat Barber, NC State
Thon Maker, yeah

Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Makai Mason, Yale

- Chillin

Thon Maker hired an agent? I haven't seen that anywhere else yet. That would pretty effectively end his eligibility to play NCAA basketball, if I'm not mistaken. If this is true, it's a monumentally stupid move. If he is determined to be ineligible for this year's draft, he wouldn't be able to play anywhere in the US for the next year.

[ChillinDuke]

Thon Maker hired an agent? That would pretty effectively end his eligibility to play NCAA basketball, if I'm not mistaken. If this is true, it's a monumentally stupid move. If he is determined to be ineligible for this year's draft, he wouldn't be able to play anywhere in the US for the next year.

Oh, I dunno. I just threw him on a list.

Sorry for confusion.

- Chillin

[kAzE]

Oh, I dunno. I just threw him on a list.

Sorry for confusion.

- Chillin

No worries, just trying to clarify, so no one else jumps to that conclusion.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Not Hiring agents might come back:

Entire Kentucky team, as even the walk on players are putting their names in for the draft hoping to be invited to the combine.

[luburch]

So what's the latest aggregate list? Trying to compile from earlier posts...

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Devin Williams, West Virginia
DeAndre Bembry, St. Josephs
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Caleb Swanigan, Purdue
Cat Barber, NC State
Thon Maker, yeah

Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Makai Mason, Yale

- Chillin

Unless I missed something, Swanigan has not hired an agent. I expect he will be back at Purdue next season.

[SCMatt33]

So what's the latest aggregate list? Trying to compile from earlier posts...

Agents/definitely not coming back:
Wayne Selden, Kansas
Wade Baldwin, Vandy
Stephen Zimmerman, UNLV
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Devin Williams, West Virginia
DeAndre Bembry, St. Josephs
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Caleb Swanigan, Purdue
Cat Barber, NC State
Thon Maker, yeah

Not hiring agents/may come back:
Chieck Diallo, Kansas
Jamal Reynolds, Xavier
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Makai Mason, Yale

- Chillin

How could you forget Ben Simmons!?!? You know, the future GOAT. The best player to attend college but never play in the NCAA tourney!

Sarcasm aside, there's also a myriad of players that belong on the not hiring agents list, but it's a pointless exercise to compile all of them as many will likely withdraw pretty quickly once the combine invite list comes out.

[Troublemaker]

Reddit probably has the best updating NBA declarations list (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/4bhn36/updated_nba_draft_early_entry_list/), although I wish they would put the Agent vs No Agent guys in separate tables.

DraftExpress looks like they're in the process of building a list (http://www.draftexpress.com/2015-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-List.php). If they fill everything in, that could be the best list eventually.

[Olympic Fan]

Reddit probably has the best updating NBA declarations list (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/4bhn36/updated_nba_draft_early_entry_list/), although I wish they would put the Agent vs No Agent guys in separate tables.


I thought this was a most compete and informative lust.

For the ACC, the big news is that:

Brandon Ingram of Duke
Malik Beasley of FSU (although listed as no agent, he's gone)
Cat Barber of NC State
Demetrius Jackson of Notre Dame

are all gone for good

also in the draft, but might withdraw:

Jason Blossomgame, Clemson
Abdul-Malik Abu of State
Chinawu Onauaku of Louisville

Dwayne Bacon of FSU has declared that he's returning to school

Still to come, decisions by:
Grayson Allen (this is the big one)
Xavier Rathan-Mayes of FSU
Isiah Hicks of UNC

and probably several more (who will at least test the waters) -- the two Pitt forwards, maybe, after the coaching change?

[Turk]

Can I call dibs on the Bucks for the DBR mock draft this year? :)

Assuming the dibs are mine to hand out, you most certainly may take over the reins as mock GM of the Bucks. In the last two drafts, my first round picks were Joel Embiid and Jerian Grant, so my job security was iffy anyway. My agent is having conversations with other tankapalooza teams that like to confuse activity with progress.

[Nugget]

Reddit probably has the best updating NBA declarations list (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/4bhn36/updated_nba_draft_early_entry_list/), although I wish they would put the Agent vs No Agent guys in separate tables.

DraftExpress looks like they're in the process of building a list (http://www.draftexpress.com/2015-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-List.php). If they fill everything in, that could be the best list eventually.

It looks like the Reddit list is maintained by DBR's own DavidBenAkiva, so should be a good one to follow.

[ricks68]

I thought this was a most compete and informative lust.

For the ACC, the big news is that:

Brandon Ingram of Duke
Malik Beasley of FSU (although listed as no agent, he's gone)
Cat Barber of NC State
Demetrius Jackson of Notre Dame

are all gone for good

also in the draft, but might withdraw:

Jason Blossomgame, Clemson
Abdul-Malik Abu of State
Chinawu Onauaku of Louisville

Dwayne Bacon of FSU has declared that he's returning to school

Still to come, decisions by:
Grayson Allen (this is the big one)
Xavier Rathan-Mayes of FSU
Isiah Hicks of UNC

and probably several more (who will at least test the waters) -- the two Pitt forwards, maybe, after the coaching change?

Do you have some reliable info on Malik Beasley not coming back for sure? I have met Malik through my nephew, who has been a good friend of his since middle school, and so far, no word on that from him. Malik is an exceptional student from an academic private school and from a well-off family that values education. While it would be a disappointment for me, I'd like to know if you have any reliable sources that confirm what you stated about his NBA draft situation. Thanks.

ricks

[Troublemaker]

It looks like the Reddit list is maintained by DBR's own DavidBenAkiva, so should be a good one to follow.

Oh yeah, I completely missed that. Great job on the list, D.B.A.! And thanks, Nugget, for pointing it out.

[tbyers11]

Do you have some reliable info on Malik Beasley not coming back for sure? I have met Malik through my nephew, who has been a good friend of his since middle school, and so far, no word on that from him. Malik is an exceptional student from an academic private school and from a well-off family that values education. While it would be a disappointment for me, I'd like to know if you have any reliable sources that confirm what you stated about his NBA draft situation. Thanks.

ricks

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/03/22/florida-states-malik-beasley-entering-2016-nba-draft/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

He doesn't explicitly say that he is hiring an agent and not returning. However, he and Coach Hamilton's statements make a pretty strong case that he is gone.

[ricks68]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/03/22/florida-states-malik-beasley-entering-2016-nba-draft/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

He doesn't explicitly say that he is hiring an agent and not returning. However, he and Coach Hamilton's statements make a pretty strong case that he is gone.

Too bad. Big loss for FL St.

ricks

[devildeac]

Joel Berry playing himself into the lottery tonight?

:rolleyes::mad:

[YmoBeThere]

Not with that second half. Do they lose much after this season?

[BD80]

Not with that second half. Do they lose much after this season?

Scholarships? Post-season opportunity? Total wins?

[lotusland]

And your legal theory to challenge the OAD rule?

I'm not a lawyer but it strikes me as odd that the NCAA is a target for preventing players from being paid their market value. The NCAA doesn't prevent anyone from going pro but the NBA and NFL do. Maybe their isn't a case though. I don't really don't know. I don't see a lot of players following the Thon Maker path so why fight it?

[CDu]

Not with that second half. Do they lose much after this season?

Paige and Johnson. Oh, and Joel James. Among key players, they probably return Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, Berry, Britt, and Hinson. That is a very talented (5 McD's All-Americans) and extremely experienced (all juniors and seniors) six. They will add three top-tier recruits in Bradley (C) Robinson (SG), and Woods (PG/SG). They should be quite solid again next year if nobody leaves early. Jackson and Hicks are probably the biggest threats, but both are probably unlikely to go.

[jv001]

Paige and Johnson. Oh, and Joel James. Among key players, they probably return Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, Berry, Britt, and Hinson. That is a very talented (5 McD's All-Americans) and extremely experienced (all juniors and seniors) six. They will add three top-tier recruits in Bradley (C) Robinson (SG), and Woods (PG/SG). They should be quite solid again next year if nobody leaves early. Jackson and Hicks are probably the biggest threats, but both are probably unlikely to go.

The great big cloud (NCAA investigation) hanging over the cheat's heads should go away in the next month or so. But the punishment that is forthcoming could play a big part in who is actually on the team by the beginning of the season. Some recruits could leave and so could some of the current players. It's going to be an interesting off season for more many reasons. GoDuke!

[CDu]

The great big cloud (NCAA investigation) hanging over the cheat's heads should go away in the next month or so. But the punishment that is forthcoming could play a big part in who is actually on the team by the beginning of the season. Some recruits could leave and so could some of the current players. It's going to be an interesting off season for more many reasons. GoDuke!

Yeah, IF the NCAA levies a tourney ban, some players (not sure if the recruits signed LOIs, which would essentially lock them in) could transfer. I remain skeptical that the bball program will get hammered. I hope I am wrong.

If penalties are minimal, then UNC will probably be quite formidable next year.

[Channing]

Watching that game last night, it looks to me like Joel Berry and Hicks are the two best NBA prospects on Carolina. Will be interesting to see if either of those guys make a move, especially Hicks, who has the body to compete in the NBA, as well as the athleticism.

As a side bar, Justin Jackson has to be a huge disappointment, especially since he came out of high school ranked so high (and higher than Winslow).

[Troublemaker]

Paige and Johnson. Oh, and Joel James. Among key players, they probably return Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, Berry, Britt, and Hinson. That is a very talented (5 McD's All-Americans) and extremely experienced (all juniors and seniors) six. They will add three top-tier recruits in Bradley (C) Robinson (SG), and Woods (PG/SG). They should be quite solid again next year if nobody leaves early. Jackson and Hicks are probably the biggest threats, but both are probably unlikely to go.

You are, of course, correct as 98.5% of programs would love to have these three 4-star recruits. It still tickles me pink, though, that UNC no longer occupies the rarefied recruiting air of the 1.5% programs. The Heels were THE dominant force in recruiting 6-10 years ago, which caused a lot of consternation in Duke-land.

As for next year's team, I agree. The following is a solid starting lineup for an NCAA tournament team (if they are not banned).

Jr Berry
Jr Pinson
Jr Jackson
Sr Hicks
Sr Meeks

Talented and experienced. But, unless Hicks and Berry and Jackson take the next step in their development to become stars, UNC won't contend for anything major next season. They especially need Hicks to become a stud as a senior because their program is inside-oriented. Maybe Meeks can pull it off, but the money should be on Hicks if at all.

[Channing]

You are, of course, correct as 98.5% of programs would love to have these three 4-star recruits. It still tickles me pink, though, that UNC no longer occupies the rarefied recruiting air of the 1.5% programs. The Heels were THE dominant force in recruiting 6-10 years ago, which caused a lot of consternation in Duke-land.

As for next year's team, I agree. The following is a solid starting lineup for an NCAA tournament team (if they are not banned).

Jr Berry
Jr Pinson
Jr Jackson
Sr Hicks
Sr Meeks

Talented and experienced. But, unless Hicks and Berry and Jackson take the next step in their development to become stars, UNC won't contend for anything major next season. They especially need Hicks to become a stud as a senior because their program is inside-oriented. Maybe Meeks can pull it off, but the money should be on Hicks if at all.

That lineup just shows how BAD UNC has become at getting players to the pros (which is undeniably important in today's environment). It is nice to have an upper class laden team, but you better get used to doing it with recruits in the 30-60 range (not that there is anything wrong with that). Carolina would like to think they still compete with Duke/KU/UK/Arizona for the top 10/15 recruits, but I can't imagine a lot of top flight guys like that track record.

[NashvilleDevil]

Watching that game last night, it looks to me like Joel Berry and Hicks are the two best NBA prospects on Carolina. Will be interesting to see if either of those guys make a move, especially Hicks, who has the body to compete in the NBA, as well as the athleticism.

As a side bar, Justin Jackson has to be a huge disappointment, especially since he came out of high school ranked so high (and higher than Winslow).

No one will leave Carolina. Roy, had the #1 recruit in the country in Barnes and he stayed 2 years, McAdoo stayed all 4 years and he was a top 10 recruit. It is still mind boggling that Justin Jackson was rated higher than Justise and Jackson will be a 4 year player. Say what you will about the possibility of sanctions, I think the reason that UNC is not getting top recruits is lack of success getting potential OAD to the league.

[CDu]

You are, of course, correct as 98.5% of programs would love to have these three 4-star recruits. It still tickles me pink, though, that UNC no longer occupies the rarefied recruiting air of the 1.5% programs. The Heels were THE dominant force in recruiting 6-10 years ago, which caused a lot of consternation in Duke-land.

As for next year's team, I agree. The following is a solid starting lineup for an NCAA tournament team (if they are not banned).

Jr Berry
Jr Pinson
Jr Jackson
Sr Hicks
Sr Meeks

Talented and experienced. But, unless Hicks and Berry and Jackson take the next step in their development to become stars, UNC won't contend for anything major next season. They especially need Hicks to become a stud as a senior because their program is inside-oriented. Maybe Meeks can pull it off, but the money should be on Hicks if at all.

Hicks is the most likely player to make a jump in play next year. But Pinson and Jackson are threats as well. Those three have the pedigree to be impact players, and now it is their team (along with Berry, who is an All-ACC caliber player already. If those freshmen are at all useful, UNC should be good.

Of course, this assumes no defections. As has been said, it is possible that the bball program gets pounded by the NCAA, which could lead to early exits.

[Troublemaker]

That lineup just shows how BAD UNC has become at getting players to the pros (which is undeniably important in today's environment). It is nice to have an upper class laden team, but you better get used to doing it with recruits in the 30-60 range (not that there is anything wrong with that). Carolina would like to think they still compete with Duke/KU/UK/Arizona for the top 10/15 recruits, but I can't imagine a lot of top flight guys like that track record.

That's a great point. Even if the Hammer doesn't drop on UNC this offseason, I wonder if UNC can get back to being part of that elite group of recruiting programs. Their recent recruiting "struggles" aren't entirely about looming sanctions, imo.

[OZ]

No one will leave Carolina. Roy, had the #1 recruit in the country in Barnes and he stayed 2 years, McAdoo stayed all 4 years and he was a top 10 recruit. It is still mind boggling that Justin Jackson was rated higher than Justise and Jackson will be a 4 year player. Say what you will about the possibility of sanctions, I think the reason that UNC is not getting top recruits is lack of success getting potential OAD to the league.


I think Mc declared after three years and went undrafted. I could be wrong as I am still a bit hung over from last night's celebratory bonfire.

[dukebluesincebirth]

You are, of course, correct as 98.5% of programs would love to have these three 4-star recruits. It still tickles me pink, though, that UNC no longer occupies the rarefied recruiting air of the 1.5% programs. The Heels were THE dominant force in recruiting 6-10 years ago, which caused a lot of consternation in Duke-land.

As for next year's team, I agree. The following is a solid starting lineup for an NCAA tournament team (if they are not banned).

Jr Berry
Jr Pinson
Jr Jackson
Sr Hicks
Sr Meeks

Talented and experienced. But, unless Hicks and Berry and Jackson take the next step in their development to become stars, UNC won't contend for anything major next season. They especially need Hicks to become a stud as a senior because their program is inside-oriented. Maybe Meeks can pull it off, but the money should be on Hicks if at all.

I'll be interested to see what Berry can do without a Paige&Johnson supporting cast. Sort of like Grayson had to prove (and did) this year from last, can you score when teams lock in on YOU specifically. Berry was making me nauseated in the first half last night... hard drives to the basket, pure 3 pointers, floaters in the lane. He was doing it all. But at one point the commentator pointed out that Nova was worried so much about the big men, they forgot about the guards. Lets see what Berry can do in a different situation. Also, unc's depth is going to diminish next year... they might have bodies on the bench, but they're not going to have players the caliber of Hicks/Pinson coming off the bench. Hicks is an athlete, but there's no way he's going to replace Johnson's offensive efficiency. They need Pinson to make a huge leap in production, but I don't see it happening. Roy needs way more than this to be successful. Or will Roy even be the coach next year????...........

[NashvilleDevil]

I think Mc declared after three years and went undrafted. I could be wrong as I am still a bit hung over from last night's celebratory bonfire.

You're right he was the there 3 years, 2 years longer than he should have if UNC wants to compete for the top talent in the country.

[sammy3469]

Hicks is the most likely player to make a jump in play next year. But Pinson and Jackson are threats as well. Those three have the pedigree to be impact players, and now it is their team (along with Berry, who is an All-ACC caliber player already. If those freshmen are at all useful, UNC should be good.

Of course, this assumes no defections. As has been said, it is possible that the bball program gets pounded by the NCAA, which could lead to early exits.

Hicks is probably already there on a per minute basis, he just fouls so much (has consistently averaged a foul every 6-7 minutes every year) that his big challenge is going to be staying on the floor.

More than anything though, their defense is probably going to take a major hit next year. Paige was a pretty lock-down perimeter defender and Johnson erased a lot of Berry/Jackson defensive lapses. Meeks is more of a space eater than rim defender, so I won't be shocked if they step back (maybe a major step back) defensively.

[Troublemaker]

Skal Labissiere will sign with an agent (http://www.ukathletics.com/news/labissiere-declares-for-2016-nba-draft-04-05-2016).

Good. Want Ulis to do the same.

[Henderson]

Skal Labissiere will sign with an agent (http://www.ukathletics.com/news/labissiere-declares-for-2016-nba-draft-04-05-2016).

Good. Want Ulis to do the same.

Why would a player do that, cutting off his option to go back to college? Under the new rules, there's no penalty for a player if he declares himself eligible, goes to the combine, gets input, and decides in late May to revoke his declaration. But if he signs with an agent, he can't go back. So why would a player do that? Do agents provide that much service from early April to late May? Plane fare to the combine I guess, and some advance coin in pocket?

Related question: If a player declares for the NBA and signs with an agent in April, then he suffers a season-ending injury in early May, can he go back to school on some "injury/hardship" waiver?

[FerryFor50]

Why would a player do that, cutting off his option to go back to college? Under the new rules, there's no penalty for a player if he declares himself eligible, goes to the combine, gets input, and decides in late May to revoke his declaration. But if he signs with an agent, he can't go back. So why would a player do that? Do agents provide that much service from early April to late May? Plane fare to the combine I guess, and some advance coin in pocket?

Related question: If a player declares for the NBA and signs with an agent in April, then he suffers a season-ending injury in early May, can he go back to school on some "injury/hardship" waiver?

Because Skal is almost assuredly a top 10 pick. Maybe even top 5. He was gone the day he signed his letter of intent.

[FerryFor50]

Hicks is the most likely player to make a jump in play next year. But Pinson and Jackson are threats as well. Those three have the pedigree to be impact players, and now it is their team (along with Berry, who is an All-ACC caliber player already. If those freshmen are at all useful, UNC should be good.

Of course, this assumes no defections. As has been said, it is possible that the bball program gets pounded by the NCAA, which could lead to early exits.

I agree about Hicks - he's going to be good, provided he can stay on the floor.

Jackson has always been the guy I thought would take the next step and has shown flashes.

Pinson, meh. Good defender, limited offensively. JP Tokoto 2.0.

I think if they get hit hard, you will see a decent number of transfers out.

[Henderson]

Because Skal is almost assuredly a top 10 pick. Maybe even top 5. He was gone the day he signed his letter of intent.

If he blows out his knee in the next month, he won't be a top 10 pick, will he? Maybe he would. Or maybe (don't know the rule here) if there is an injury, he could go back to UK to rehab... if they'd take him knowing he couldn't play.

It looks like if he gets this wrong, he could end up without a basketball contract, no income, and no university education. All because he signs with an agent.

P.S. It occurs to me there would be ways around that. An agent could agree upon signing to buy an insurance policy for the player.... That'd be kind of win-win.

[BD80]

Why would a player do that, cutting off his option to go back to college? Under the new rules, there's no penalty for a player if he declares himself eligible, goes to the combine, gets input, and decides in late May to revoke his declaration. But if he signs with an agent, he can't go back. So why would a player do that? Do agents provide that much service from early April to late May? Plane fare to the combine I guess, and some advance coin in pocket?

Related question: If a player declares for the NBA and signs with an agent in April, then he suffers a season-ending injury in early May, can he go back to school on some "injury/hardship" waiver?

Upon signing with an agent, the agent typically loans the player money.

[FerryFor50]

If he blows out his knee in the next month, he won't be a top 10 pick, will he? Maybe he would. Or maybe (don't know the rule here) if there is an injury, he could go back to UK to rehab... if they'd take him knowing he couldn't play.

Embiid injured his back at the end of his one and done year. Was the 3rd overall pick.

While it makes sense to test the waters for some, if you know you're gone and want to start getting those cash advances from an agent, why not sign?

[Olympic Fan]

The timing on UNC's punishment (which I believe is coming) will be crucial.

Will the borderline guys like Hicks get the word that UNC will be on probation in time to pit there names in the draft?

If could happen -- I expect the COI to issue its ruling in May (and May 25 is the deadline to declare for the draft). But UNC can appeal and that would add another 90 days to the process. And, of course, they are so deluded over there that they'll be sure that they will win the appeal.

It's going to be fun to watch.

[Henderson]

Upon signing with an agent, the agent typically loans the player money.


Embiid injured his back at the end of his one and done year. Was the 3rd overall pick.

While it makes sense to test the waters for some, if you know you're gone and want to start getting those cash advances from an agent, why not sign?

Good points. I guess if you KNOW you aren't going back to school no matter what, it makes sense to sign with an agent and get whatever goodies s/he will give you on spec.

[eddiehaskell]

Let's not overlook what they have coming back...

Pinson is a great passer and defender
Meeks certainly isn't a bad big guy by ACC standards
Berry has often looked like the ACC's most improved
Hicks is good (wasn't he 6th man of the year?)
Jackson is often annoyingly good. (had 13 pts in both Duke games)
Britt is certainly a serviceable backup

I believe they will all be upperclassmen next year which can't be overlooked either. We often see much less talented yet experienced teams that are dangerous in March.

[jv001]

Let's not overlook what they have coming back...

Pinson is a great passer and defender
Meeks certainly isn't a bad big guy by ACC standards
Berry has often looked like the ACC's most improved
Hicks is good (wasn't he 6th man of the year?)
Jackson is often annoyingly good. (had 13 pts in both Duke games)
Britt is certainly a serviceable backup

I believe they will all be upperclassmen next year which can't be overlooked either. We often see much less talented yet experienced teams that are dangerous in March.

But you need to remember Old Roy will play some of the 3 and 4 star bench players in his 10 man rotation, come hell or highway water. :cool:
He's the X-Factor. GoDuke!

[FerryFor50]

But you need to remember Old Roy will play some of the 3 and 4 star bench players in his 10 man rotation, come hell or highway water. :cool:
He's the X-Factor. GoDuke!

If Roy sticks around.

He says he's not going anywhere. But he also once said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvW0SGEqC5k

(he also never swears)

[CDu]

But you need to remember Old Roy will play some of the 3 and 4 star bench players in his 10 man rotation, come hell or highway water. :cool:
He's the X-Factor. GoDuke!

They have three incoming 4-5 star recruits: 6'10" C Tony Bradley (RSCI #28); 6'1" PG/SG Seventh Woods (RSCI #40); and 6'5" SG Brandon Robinson (RSCI #58). That would give them a 9-man rotation as follows:

C: Meeks - 6'9" senior, likely to be a double-digit scorer and 7-8 rpg guy now that Brice Johnson is gone (the two really weren't a well-suited pair)
PF: Hicks - 6'8" senior, likely to become a double-digit scorer now that Brice Johnson is gone (his minutes will go up significantly); possible All-ACC player
SF: Jackson - 6'8" junior, likely to score in the teens and become an All-ACC player now that Paige is gone
SG: Pinson - 6'5" junior, likely to take on a bigger role as an all-purpose guard (rebounds, defends, passes)
PG: Berry - 6'2" junior, should have been honorable mention All-ACC this year, will likely be All-ACC next year

Bench:
PG: Britt - 6'0" senior, just a role player but a solid defender and capable fill-in for the backcourt
C: Bradley - 6'10" freshman, 5-star big
Combo guard: Woods - 6'1" freshman, 4-star guard
Wing: Robinson - 6'5" freshman, 4-star wing
Others: Maye, Williams, Stillman White

I doubt Roy would play much deeper than 9-10. If he plays 9-10, that means only one guy will be a borderline ACC player (presumably Maye).

If they don't have defections, it's still going to be a very good UNC team next year. Most likely not as good as this UNC team, but probably a top-15 or top-20 team. If they do have defections (most notably Berry, Jackson, or Hicks), the road to a top-25 season gets a lot tougher.

[jv001]

They have three incoming 4-5 star recruits: 6'10" C Tony Bradley (RSCI #28); 6'1" PG/SG Seventh Woods (RSCI #40); and 6'5" SG Brandon Robinson (RSCI #58). That would give them a 9-man rotation as follows:

C: Meeks - 6'9" senior, likely to be a double-digit scorer and 7-8 rpg guy now that Brice Johnson is gone (the two really weren't a well-suited pair)
PF: Hicks - 6'8" senior, likely to become a double-digit scorer now that Brice Johnson is gone (his minutes will go up significantly); possible All-ACC player
SF: Jackson - 6'8" junior, likely to score in the teens and become an All-ACC player now that Paige is gone
SG: Pinson - 6'5" junior, likely to take on a bigger role as an all-purpose guard (rebounds, defends, passes)
PG: Berry - 6'2" junior, should have been honorable mention All-ACC this year, will likely be All-ACC next year

Bench:
PG: Britt - 6'0" senior, just a role player but a solid defender and capable fill-in for the backcourt
C: Bradley - 6'10" freshman, 5-star big
Combo guard: Woods - 6'1" freshman, 4-star guard
Wing: Robinson - 6'5" freshman, 4-star wing
Others: Maye, Williams, Stillman White

I doubt Roy would play much deeper than 9-10. If he plays 9-10, that means only one guy will be a borderline ACC player (presumably Maye).

If they don't have defections, it's still going to be a very good UNC team next year. Most likely not as good as this UNC team, but probably a top-15 or top-20 team. If they do have defections (most notably Berry, Jackson, or Hicks), the road to a top-25 season gets a lot tougher.

Thanks for the recruiting info on the heels. I have not paid much attention to their recruiting this season. GoDuke!

[Henderson]

If Roy sticks around.

He says he's not going anywhere. But he also once said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvW0SGEqC5k

(he also never swears)

Someone else made the point in one of these threads that Ol' Roy looked old in his post-game presser. I would go further, much further.

[Kedsy]

They have three incoming 4-5 star recruits: 6'10" C Tony Bradley (RSCI #28); 6'1" PG/SG Seventh Woods (RSCI #40); and 6'5" SG Brandon Robinson (RSCI #58).

It's funny. Ordinarily I would sneer at a recruiting class of #28, #40, and #58 being considered a good class for a top-tier team, except that's exactly what UNC had in their 2012 recruiting class: #28 Marcus Paige, #40 Brice Johnson, and #58 Joel James (as well as #57 JP Tokoto). Whatever else you can say about Ol' Roy, he does seem to turn 2nd-tier recruits into top-tier performers.

[FerryFor50]

It's funny. Ordinarily I would sneer at a recruiting class of #28, #40, and #58 being considered a good class for a top-tier team, except that's exactly what UNC had in their 2012 recruiting class: #28 Marcus Paige, #40 Brice Johnson, and #58 Joel James (as well as #57 JP Tokoto). Whatever else you can say about Ol' Roy, he does seem to turn 2nd-tier recruits into top-tier performers.

I'd argue that only Brice Johnson was turned into a top performer, and even that took until his senior season. Prior to that, he was dogged by questions of his work ethic and "motor."

Paige was good his freshman year, but regressed for 2.5 years. He only regained form the 2nd half of the season.

Joel James? His best contribution was spraining Jah's ankle.

[Steven43]

Whatever else you can say about Ol' Roy, he does seem to turn 2nd-tier recruits into top-tier performers.
Perhaps the main reason his 2nd-tier recruits fairly often become first-tier performers is simply because they are given the opportunity to play. That, combined with the expectation that they will contribute, gives them both the playing time and the confidence needed to improve.

[CDu]

It's funny. Ordinarily I would sneer at a recruiting class of #28, #40, and #58 being considered a good class for a top-tier team, except that's exactly what UNC had in their 2012 recruiting class: #28 Marcus Paige, #40 Brice Johnson, and #58 Joel James (as well as #57 JP Tokoto). Whatever else you can say about Ol' Roy, he does seem to turn 2nd-tier recruits into top-tier performers.

It is definitely not an elite recruiting class. But it is a solid class for a team that doesn't necessarily need elite impact freshmen for the team to be good.

I think we have gotten somewhat spoiled if not jaded in perception of classes. Coaches Izzo, Calhoun, Bennett, Wright, and anyone not named K, Calipari, Self, or maybe Miller would be quite pleased with that type of class. And that type of class allows you to develop a team long-term, because it doesn't consist of likely one-and-dones.

At Duke we also have a different issue in that, for whatever reason, guys who aren't top-30 recruits rarely become stars, and guys who aren't top-40 recruits usually have trouble cracking the rotation. If WE had that class, it would be a problem, because it is quite possible none would play. But at other schools (where early entry isn't an issue and value is gained from continuity) that is a very good class.

Duke and Kentucky just operate on a different model than other schools these days.

[MChambers]

What does next year's UNC team have to do with this year's NBA draft?

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'd argue that only Brice Johnson was turned into a top performer, and even that took until his senior season. Prior to that, he was dogged by questions of his work ethic and "motor."

Paige was good his freshman year, but regressed for 2.5 years. He only regained form the 2nd half of the season.

Joel James? His best contribution was spraining Jah's ankle.

Paige was dynamite his sophomore season. He regressed for 1.75 seasons thereafter.

[FerryFor50]

Paige was dynamite his sophomore season. He regressed for 1.75 seasons thereafter.

Oops. Thanks for the correction. :)

[CDu]

What does next year's UNC team have to do with this year's NBA draft?

It isn't the first time a 190+ post thread deviates off-topic. Won't be the last either.

[eddiehaskell]

Let's not forget though - Roy's most successful teams were chocked full of McD all-Americans (2005 (Matt's guys), 2008, 2009). While they did come together for a huge run this year, they also had seasons of 25-11, 24-10 and 26-12. Most Duke fans would probably start calling for K's retirement after 3 seasons of double digit losses.

The only impact players on this year's UNC team that weren't McD all-Americans were Johnson and Britt.

[CDu]

Let's not forget though - Roy's most successful teams were chocked full of McD all-Americans (2005 (Matt's guys), 2008, 2009). While they did come together for a huge run this year, they also had seasons of 25-11, 24-10 and 26-12. Most Duke fans would probably start calling for K's retirement after 3 seasons of double digit losses.

The only impact players on this year's UNC team that weren't McD all-Americans were Johnson and Britt.

Of course, next year's UNC team will still have 6 McDs All-Americans. Same as this year's team. Possibly more than the 2005 team (?).

[MChambers]

It isn't the first time a 190+ post thread deviates off-topic. Won't be the last either.

There is a perfectly good thread about way too early 2017 projections. How 'bout putting these posts there?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Of course, next year's UNC team will still have 6 McDs All-Americans. Same as this year's team. Possibly more than the 2005 team (?).

Yup. 2005 had 5: Jawad, Raymond, Marvin, Rashad, and Sean.

[Henderson]

What does next year's UNC team have to do with this year's NBA draft?

I think "who among UNC-CH players will declare?" is the connector.

[NashvilleDevil]

He was projected top 3 coming out of high school. Is he top 10 now?

[jipops]

They have three incoming 4-5 star recruits: 6'10" C Tony Bradley (RSCI #28); 6'1" PG/SG Seventh Woods (RSCI #40); and 6'5" SG Brandon Robinson (RSCI #58). That would give them a 9-man rotation as follows:

C: Meeks - 6'9" senior, likely to be a double-digit scorer and 7-8 rpg guy now that Brice Johnson is gone (the two really weren't a well-suited pair)
PF: Hicks - 6'8" senior, likely to become a double-digit scorer now that Brice Johnson is gone (his minutes will go up significantly); possible All-ACC player
SF: Jackson - 6'8" junior, likely to score in the teens and become an All-ACC player now that Paige is gone
SG: Pinson - 6'5" junior, likely to take on a bigger role as an all-purpose guard (rebounds, defends, passes)
PG: Berry - 6'2" junior, should have been honorable mention All-ACC this year, will likely be All-ACC next year

Bench:
PG: Britt - 6'0" senior, just a role player but a solid defender and capable fill-in for the backcourt
C: Bradley - 6'10" freshman, 5-star big
Combo guard: Woods - 6'1" freshman, 4-star guard
Wing: Robinson - 6'5" freshman, 4-star wing
Others: Maye, Williams, Stillman White

I doubt Roy would play much deeper than 9-10. If he plays 9-10, that means only one guy will be a borderline ACC player (presumably Maye).

If they don't have defections, it's still going to be a very good UNC team next year. Most likely not as good as this UNC team, but probably a top-15 or top-20 team. If they do have defections (most notably Berry, Jackson, or Hicks), the road to a top-25 season gets a lot tougher.

I would imagine Roy has Pinson hoisting up a lot of jump shots in the off season. It may be interesting to see how Berry does at pg with Paige no longer his back court mate. Not 100% convinced Hicks will be back, his draft stock may be as high as it will go. He's not going to get taller but he is a powerful athlete with touch around the basket. He'll likely be back but not a sure thing.

This could be yet another strong group. I'd say more like a top 10 team with the level of talent and experience in the starting 5. Will certainly challenge for another acc title.

[Troublemaker]

I would imagine Roy has Pinson hoisting up a lot of jump shots in the off season. It may be interesting to see how Berry does at pg with Paige no longer his back court mate. Not 100% convinced Hicks will be back, his draft stock may be as high as it will go. He's not going to get taller but he is a powerful athlete with touch around the basket. He'll likely be back but not a sure thing.

I've not even seen Hicks being discussed as a draft pick this year by any of the major draft sites. Unless sanctions hit, I think it's a lock that he's back, and even then, not sure he would leave to be late 2nd-round / undrafted.



This could be yet another strong group. I'd say more like a top 10 team with the level of talent and experience in the starting 5. Will certainly challenge for another acc title.

They will need supporting players to become stars, and that's a tough transition to make. I think they will need Hicks to become 1st-team ACC since UNC is inside-oriented, for example. And Berry and Jackson will need to make leaps as well. I like Berry a lot and think he'll make the leap; we'll see about the other two.

[CDu]

I would imagine Roy has Pinson hoisting up a lot of jump shots in the off season. It may be interesting to see how Berry does at pg with Paige no longer his back court mate. Not 100% convinced Hicks will be back, his draft stock may be as high as it will go. He's not going to get taller but he is a powerful athlete with touch around the basket. He'll likely be back but not a sure thing.

This could be yet another strong group. I'd say more like a top 10 team with the level of talent and experience in the starting 5. Will certainly challenge for another acc title.

Berry has been playing PG for most of this season, and actually had better numbers than Paige this year (he should have been the one to get All-ACC consideration over Jackson and on par with Paige this year). I think there is little doubt he will excel next year. Same for Hicks (whose per-minute numbers were awesome) who doesn't seem to be on any draft boards right now.

If everyone stays, the are very probably a top-15 team, if not better. If one of Pinson or Jackson finally plays to his pedigree (my money would be on Jackson, who averaged 12 ppg this year anyway) they could be really good.

[MChambers]

I think "who among UNC-CH players will declare?" is the connector.

Maybe, but most of the discussion is about who returns. And it's not like any of the UNC undergrads will be first-rounders. They'll be lucky to be drafted.

[mkirsh]

I had always thought Jackson to be the most NBA ready of UNC's early entry candidates (I know, not saying much). Is there no speculation of him at least testing the waters?

[CDu]

I had always thought Jackson to be the most NBA ready of UNC's early entry candidates (I know, not saying much). Is there no speculation of him at least testing the waters?

None yet. But then again their season just ended last night. UNC has a policy thar such things aren't discussed until after the season.

[jipops]

I've not even seen Hicks being discussed as a draft pick this year by any of the major draft sites. Unless sanctions hit, I think it's a lock that he's back, and even then, not sure he would leave to be late 2nd-round / undrafted.

.

I haven't either. But my logic is around him being a very good physical and athletic talent and this being a draft considered weaker than next season. Of course he could develop more of a high post game or extend his range, but other than that it may be difficult for him to be considered above a lot of other prospects next year.

[FerryFor50]

I haven't either. But my logic is around him being a very good physical and athletic talent and this being a draft considered weaker than next season. Of course he could develop more of a high post game or extend his range, but other than that it may be difficult for him to be considered above a lot of other prospects next year.

I could see him putting his name in to test the waters and maybe impress at some workouts.

But he's likely sticking around 4 years (unless he goes All-America next season).

[jipops]

I could see him putting his name in to test the waters and maybe impress at some workouts.

But he's likely sticking around 4 years (unless he goes All-America next season).

He has 1 year of eligibilty left.

[FerryFor50]

He has 1 year of eligibilty left.

Oh thought he was a sophomore. Man those UNC guys stick around a while. :cool:

[CDu]

Oh thought he was a sophomore. Man those UNC guys stick around a while. :cool:

He is indeed a sophomore.

[FerryFor50]

He is indeed a sophomore.

Nah, he's a junior:

http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209260959

[CDu]

Nah, he's a junior:

http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209260959

Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about Jackson. Yes, Hicks (and Meeks and Britt) is a junior. Jackson (and Berry and Pinson) is a sophomore.

[brevity]

CoachCal.com (https://twitter.com/CoachCalDotCom/status/717772323030491136) ‏@CoachCalDotCom

A @KentuckyMBB special announcement is coming at 2:30 p.m. ET. Watch live: http://www.coachcal.com/39355/2016/04/video-special-announcement/

10:53 AM - 6 Apr 2016

Kyle Tucker (https://twitter.com/KyleTucker_CJ/status/717768226332127233) ‏@KyleTucker_CJ

Tyler Ulis' parents are here. So I think we know who the 2:30 presser is for.

10:37 AM - 6 Apr 2016

Gary Parrish (https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/717768427470004224) ‏@GaryParrishCBS

Tyler Ulis is about to become the third Kentucky player to announce he’s remaining in the NBA Draft.

10:38 AM - 6 Apr 2016

[CDu]

Tyler Ulis is about to become the third Kentucky player to announce he’s remaining in the NBA Draft.

If so, we can cross one more name off the list of guys who could threaten Allen's spot as 1st Team All-American next year.

[JasonEvans]

If so, we can cross one more name off the list of guys who could threaten Allen's spot as 1st Team All-American pre-season Player of the Year next year.

FIFY.

I think 1st team All-American is pretty much a given.

[devildeac]

FIFY.

I think 1st team All-American is pretty much a given.

Sure as hell should be with that 108 PPG that Jim Sumner is "predicting" in another thread. Somewhere.

;)

[kAzE]

Gary Parrish (https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/717768427470004224) ‏@GaryParrishCBS

Tyler Ulis is about to become the third Kentucky player to announce he’s remaining in the NBA Draft.

10:38 AM - 6 Apr 2016

Only 3? Psssssh . . . Cal is slipping.

[kAzE]

I'm a bit surprised to not see Rasheed Sulaimon on almost any mock drafts. I thought a change of scenery and a starting spot on a talented team would help his draft stock, but apparently, his alleged off-the-court troubles have really hurt him. I think he could still find his way on to a roster as a 3 and D specialist, but he will have to be very humble and hard working to stay in the league if he goes undrafted. Hopefully, things turn out well for him. I always thought he was a future NBA player and that he played hard when he put on the Duke uniform.

[hackysack123]

I'm a bit surprised to not see Rasheed Sulaimon on almost any mock drafts. I thought a change of scenery and a starting spot on a talented team would help his draft stock, but apparently, his alleged off-the-court troubles have really hurt him. I think he could still find his way on to a roster as a 3 and D specialist, but he will have to be very humble and hard working to stay in the league if he goes undrafted. Hopefully, things turn out well for him. I always thought he was a future NBA player and that he played hard when he put on the Duke uniform.

Wouldn't he have been a 1st rounder if he left after his frosh year?

[kAzE]

Wouldn't he have been a 1st rounder if he left after his frosh year?

I think he would have been a borderline first rounder. You have to wonder if he wasn't forced into a starting role as a freshman, if things would have turned out differently. After a huge freshman year, and making the All-ACC freshman team, he may have gotten a bit complacent and entitled, and then disgruntled when he lost his starting job. Rasheed was always a guy who I thought was more talented than his stats showed.

Perhaps an anecdote for the starting lineup thread in favor of the argument that it isn't always the best idea to put young kids in the starting lineup?

[wilson]

I'm a bit surprised to not see Rasheed Sulaimon on almost any mock drafts. I thought a change of scenery and a starting spot on a talented team would help his draft stock, but apparently, his alleged off-the-court troubles have really hurt him. I think he could still find his way on to a roster as a 3 and D specialist, but he will have to be very humble and hard working to stay in the league if he goes undrafted. Hopefully, things turn out well for him. I always thought he was a future NBA player and he played hard when he put on the Duke uniform.Unfortunately, the last time Rasheed really moved the needle was with the murky-to-unsavory circumstances of his departure from Duke. Despite the fact that he landed on a strong contender in a strong conference, I didn't hear really anything about him this season, despite following college basketball very closely.
If Seth Curry can carve out a hard-earned NBA roster spot, then I think Sheed can too, and I think that his path to the League is most likely very similar to Seth's...distinguish himself as a D-League stat stuffer and get his foot in the NBA door by delivering good returns on some short-term contracts.
I think the biggest strike against Rasheed remains the fact that he's a bit of a tweener...there's not much room in the NBA for any but the most elite combo-guard types, so I think Sheed will need to focus on refining a couple of his skills so as to find a landing spot as a specialist of sorts. Seth's elite skill is shooting, and although I'm not suggesting nepotism, I certainly don't think his last name has hurt.
Honestly, I don't see Rasheed making much of an impact in the League in the long run, but if he wants to, I think he can still make a good living and see the world by playing in some high-level foreign leagues.

[MChambers]

Having watched a fair number of Big Ten games this season, due to my kids having gone to MSU and Northwestern, I don't see Rasheed as even close to an NBA player. He doesn't do anything really well. Instead, he's just okay at almost everything. In particular, he's a decent outside shooter, but I don't think he'll shoot well from NBA three point range. As a ballhandler, well, he's a shooting guard. He dribbles the ball way up high, and really can't break anyone down off the dribble. His dribble involves a lot of effort, but not much effectiveness. As a defender, he's fairly good, but it's not like he can shut scorers down.

I always liked him as a Duke player, and thought he would be the starting guard next to Tyus in 2014-15, but the more I watched that season the less impressed I was. That continued this year. I didn't wish him ill, but as I watched games I realized that he was just a good college guard, nothing more.

Maybe he can improve his game like Lance Thomas did, but at this point I don't see him in the NBA next year.

[Troublemaker]

Thomas Bryant returns for his sophomore season (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/04/07/thomas-bryant-returning-indiana-hoosiers-sophomore-season/82740860/)

This really increases the odds of Duke at Indiana in the ACC-Big10 Challenge, imo. The Hoosiers should be preseason top 10.

Possible starting lineup:

Jr - Robert Johnson
Jr - James Blackmon
So - OG Anunoby (I'm very impressed with his talent)
Fr - Deron Davis
So - Thomas Bryant

[Eternal Outlaw]

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 3m3 minutes ago
Thon Maker was just cleared by the NBA to enter the 2016 NBA Draft according to sources. Story coming ...

[JasonEvans]

Thon Maker's case is very interesting. I think Gabriel, who Duke was looking at pretty closely at one point, may try the same thing (I think he is also in a prep school year). Are there others?

It will be quite interesting to see how the NBA treats Maker in terms of his stock. The NBA would muuuuuch rather see a year of college competition to get a better handle on which of these kids can really play. Maker gets to come out almost completely untested. Taking him will carry even more risk than the usual NBA draft pick.

-Jason "I feel for Bobby Hurley, who worked really hard on Maker. Thon could have been a program-maker for Bobby" Evans

[Jeffrey]

Having watched a fair number of Big Ten games this season, due to my kids having gone to MSU and Northwestern, I don't see Rasheed as even close to an NBA player.

Somewhat like at Duke, I thought Rasheed started much stronger then he finished. Early this season, IMO, he looked new and improved. Late this season, IMO, his attitude and behavior appeared to be going the wrong direction.

[Steven43]

There is a perfectly good thread about way too early 2017 projections. How 'bout putting these posts there?
Not sure why y'all worry so much about a thread going off topic. Sometimes it leads to a much better conversation than had it stayed on topic. So much rigidity and forced conformity on this site.

[Olympic Fan]

Somewhat like at Duke, I thought Rasheed started much stronger then he finished. Early this season, IMO, he looked new and improved. Late this season, IMO, his attitude and behavior appeared to be going the wrong direction.

In terms of numbers, it's amazing how similar Rasheed's freshman season at Duke was, compared to his senior season at Maryland. Not only were his numbers almost identical, but he played the same role and was the No. 5 scorer on very similar teams (Duke in 2013 was a little better than Maryland in 2016).

[nmduke2001]

If the ping pong balls fall for the Lakers, I would guess that they will draft Simmons. With Luke Walton as the coach, he could use Simmons as a Draymond Green type, power forward playmaker. I'd like to see Brandon go to Minnesota. That team looks like it is a scorer away from being really good.

[flyingdutchdevil]

If the ping pong balls fall for the Lakers, I would guess that they will draft Simmons. With Luke Walton as the coach, he could use Simmons as a Draymond Green type, power forward playmaker. I'd like to see Brandon go to Minnesota. That team looks like it is a scorer away from being really good.

I wouldn't. With Wiggins and KAT, Minny is stacked for the future. Ingram would be third in the pecking order and may not get the investment in his career that he deserves.

I want to see Ingram as a Celtic, Laker, or Saint, ie on a team as the first or second option on offense.

[kAzE]

I wouldn't. With Wiggins and KAT, Minny is stacked for the future. Ingram would be third in the pecking order and may not get the investment in his career that he deserves.

I want to see Ingram as a Celtic, Laker, or Saint, ie on a team as the first or second option on offense.

I think he'd be second on that Minnesota roster . . . Brandon's got more upside than Wiggins in my opinion, and I think that would be a great spot for him, or any rookie to land. Get on a team with other young studs still on their rookie contract and grow and develop together. Just don't trade one of them for pennies on the dollar (OKC). Also, as OKC as demonstrated, 2 superstars sometimes isn't enough.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think he'd be second on that Minnesota roster . . . Brandon's got more upside than Wiggins in my opinion.

I would agree. But Wiggins will be alpha/beta for at least the next 3 years. And that could hurt Ingram's development. Kinda like how Harden wasn't able to realize his potential until moving to Houston. I don't want that for Ingram. I want Ingram to get the staff's full attention from Day 1. I think he's that good and has that much potential.

[JasonEvans]

If the ping pong balls fall for the Lakers, I would guess that they will draft Simmons. With Luke Walton as the coach, he could use Simmons as a Draymond Green type, power forward playmaker. I'd like to see Brandon go to Minnesota. That team looks like it is a scorer away from being really good.

Ummm, except Draymond Green is a really, really good shooter (39% of his 3s this past season, taking more than three 3s per game) and Simmons is... well... NOT!

[Troublemaker]

I would agree. But Wiggins will be alpha/beta for at least the next 3 years. And that could hurt Ingram's development. Kinda like how Harden wasn't able to realize his potential until moving to Houston. I don't want that for Ingram. I want Ingram to get the staff's full attention from Day 1. I think he's that good and has that much potential.

I dunno. I suspect most NBA players would've killed to be in Harden's position. Stay, and be a part of a young emerging dynasty. However, if the itch to be The Man is great, you can leave to make max money in free agency. I think it's better to have the choice available. Too many great players waste too many years on teams that don't have a chance to win.

[NashvilleDevil]

I dunno. I suspect most NBA players would've killed to be in Harden's position. Stay, and be a part of a young emerging dynasty. However, if the itch to be The Man is great, you can leave to make max money in free agency. I think it's better to have the choice available. Too many great players waste too many years on teams that don't have a chance to win.

Harden was traded though.

[Troublemaker]

Harden was traded though.

OKC and Harden couldn't agree on a contract in free agency, so they sign-and-traded him.

[CDu]

Harden was traded though.


OKC and Harden couldn't agree on a contract in free agency, so they sign-and-traded him.

Harden was crushed by the news of the trade. In his words, the Thunder sent him a last-minute, take it or leave it offer well below the max, with like an hour before the deadline. He wasn't comfortable deciding so quickly, and passed. And shortly thereafter they traded him.

Now, who knows if that is just talk, and who knows if Harden would have eventually re-signed had he not been traded. But he seemed pretty genuinely hurt (still) by the Thunder breaking up their big three.

[Troublemaker]

Harden was crushed by the news of the trade. In his words, the Thunder sent him a last-minute, take it or leave it offer well below the max, with like an hour before the deadline. He wasn't comfortable deciding so quickly, and passed. And shortly thereafter they traded him.

Now, who knows if that is just talk, and who knows if Harden would have eventually re-signed had he not been traded. But he seemed pretty genuinely hurt (still) by the Thunder breaking up their big three.

Oh, I have no trouble believing Harden. He probably was just trying to squeeze more money out of the Thunder (rightfully so) and couldn't believe they would really break up a big three championship core. Getting traded away can be hurtful.

Nashville, you are right and I got it wrong above. Harden had a year left on his contract, of course, and they were negotiating a contract extension. It was a straight up trade, not a sign-and-trade as I recalled incorrectly.

[Indoor66]

Oh, I have no trouble believing Harden. He probably was just trying to squeeze more money out of the Thunder (rightfully so) and couldn't believe they would really break up a big three championship core. Getting traded away can be hurtful.

Nashville, you are right and I got it wrong above. Harden had a year left on his contract, of course, and they were negotiating a contract extension. It was a straight up trade, not a sign-and-trade as I recalled incorrectly.

Sometimes people overvalue themselves; sometimes management makes a mistake. Here I think it was an overvalue issue.

[kAzE]

Sometimes people overvalue themselves; sometimes management makes a mistake. Here I think it was an overvalue issue.

Harden was a bad fit with Westbrook. Both of them are extremely ball dominant and are much less effective off the ball. The only way that team was going to work with the 2 of them was if Harden continued to come off the bench. OKC didn't want to pay a 6th man the max, and traded him with a year left on his salary in a deal that involved 6 players and 3 draft picks, but ultimately resulted in James Harden for Jeremy Lamb and the pick that became Steven Adams. Bad Sam Presti! You don't trade an all-star for role players. Gotta at least let them play the final year out, or you gotta get more than that back.

[ChillinDuke]

Harden was a bad fit with Westbrook. Both of them are extremely ball dominant and are much less effective off the ball. The only way that team was going to work with the 2 of them was if Harden continued to come off the bench. OKC didn't want to pay a 6th man the max, and traded him with a year left on his salary in a deal that involved 6 players and 3 draft picks, but ultimately resulted in James Harden for Jeremy Lamb and the pick that became Steven Adams. Bad Sam Presti! You don't trade an all-star for role players. Gotta at least let them play the final year out, or you gotta get more than that back.

Agreed. OKC didn't really manage that situation optimally. And I agree that he was a bad fit on that team.

As good as Harden is, he strikes me as a player that will likely be remembered much like Carmelo Anthony. Fantastic offensive talent whose teams consistently underperform. Not that I follow the NBA that closely, but that's my sense.

Maybe Tracy McGrady as a career analogue also? Maybe?

- Chillin

[Trey21]

Agreed. OKC didn't really manage that situation optimally. And I agree that he was a bad fit on that team.

As good as Harden is, he strikes me as a player that will likely be remembered much like Carmelo Anthony. Fantastic offensive talent whose teams consistently underperform. Not that I follow the NBA that closely, but that's my sense.

Maybe Tracy McGrady as a career analogue also? Maybe?

- Chillin

A bad fit in hindsight maybe, but there's definitely a scenario were Harden could have become something a Manu Ginobili for OKC, but yeah I doubt that he becomes a legit top 10 player playing within that roll. I agree with your Melo comparison, its a good one. Both dudes are high volume scorers, who are insanely creative. Harden with his jackson pollock slashes and drives to Melo's beautifully buttery post game and touch. Both are superstars because they have that media presence but neither has a the perception of a winner, or arguably being a "good team mate" (right or wrong). Melo is perceived as this baller business dude, who would pick building his own an empire rather than winning. Harden, on the other hand, seems like this alternative superstar who might be into partying too much while eating too much taco bell burritos.

Less hot on the T-Mac take. Tracy had his fair share of flaws but his peak was higher than either of these two. Yeah, I'd take 02-03 T-mac over, 2014-2015 Harden. The teams he dragged to the playoffs when our own Grant Hill went down to injuries are some of the worst playoff teams in history. The fact that his 8 seed Magic team almost beat Detroit in the 2003 playoffs was insane. He just didn't have help, didn't condition as well as some others (he coulda been better than Kobe), and his body just gave out on him. His career is disappointing because of the injuries, not because he under performed. His playoff luck reminds me of CP3.

[luvdahops]

I would agree. But Wiggins will be alpha/beta for at least the next 3 years. And that could hurt Ingram's development. Kinda like how Harden wasn't able to realize his potential until moving to Houston. I don't want that for Ingram. I want Ingram to get the staff's full attention from Day 1. I think he's that good and has that much potential.

Wiggins thus far has been a very high usage, low efficiency player on offense, and a surprisingly mediocre (at best) defender. But he is not a natural #1 or even #2 scorer in my book, and Thibs is the perfect coach to turn Wiggins into the more versatile, two-way player most envisioned back in the 2014 Draft. Given that, I think there could be an alpha/beta role in Minny for Brandon, though I won't go as far as to say it would be the best fit for him.

[awhom111]

Here is the press release on the combine for reference:
http://www.nba.com/2016/news/05/06/more-than-70-players-invited-to-2016-nba-draft-combine/index.html

There are a couple of places with more analysis, but if you just want the full list, there it is.

[Olympic Fan]

Some feedback from ESPN's Chard for on the NBA draft combine --(note: it's insider content so I can't link ... is it okay that I mention a few high points?):

-- The fastest rising player on the board is Syracuse freshman Malchai Richardson, who will almost certainly stay in the draft. Ford projected him No. 20 before the combine, but now thinks he's a lottery pick.

-- Two more ACC players who have been impressive are Louisville's Chinanu Onauaku and Clemson's Jaron Blossomgame. Ford predicts that if they stay in the draft, both get picked late first round or early second round.

-- Among those in his back to school brigade (players who won't be drafted) -- Marcus Lee of Kentucky, Melo Trimble of Maryland, Nigel Hayes of Wisconsin and Caleb Swanigan of Purdue.

- He has another group who could be drafted, but didn't play well at the combine and hurt their status -- UNC's Justin Jackson, Villanova's Josh Hart in this group.

That's only a small part of the article - and remember Chad Ford's not the most reliable guy around. He's the reporter who goes back after the draft and changes some of his predictions to make his stuff look better.

[Kedsy]

That's only a small part of the article - and remember Chad Ford's not the most reliable guy around. He's the reporter who goes back after the draft and changes some of his predictions to make his stuff look better.

CBS Sports (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/stock-watch-winners-and-losers-of-the-2016-nba-draft-combine/) also had negative things to say about Lee, saying (a) it was a surprise he was even invited; (b) he didn't test as well athletically as expected; (c) he was "ineffectual" on defense; and (d) didn't perform on offense. CBS' conclusion:


Like Isaiah Briscoe, Lee is in a really tough spot right now. He needs to either return to Kentucky, where he has been recruited over in some ways, or go pro and hope for the best in the D-League while continuing to improve his game.

Hard to imagine why the kid would stay in the draft unless he's entirely clueless or has seen signs that he won't be welcome back at UK.

[jimsumner]

CBS Sports (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/stock-watch-winners-and-losers-of-the-2016-nba-draft-combine/) also had negative things to say about Lee, saying (a) it was a surprise he was even invited; (b) he didn't test as well athletically as expected; (c) he was "ineffectual" on defense; and (d) didn't perform on offense. CBS' conclusion:



Hard to imagine why the kid would stay in the draft unless he's entirely clueless or has seen signs that he won't be welcome back at UK.

What's equally hard to imagine is why a hypothetical high-school big man would look at Lee's total lack of development and conclude that the school that failed to develop him is an attractive option.

Or why that school pushing him out seems like the kind of thing that seems acceptable.

Hypothetically.

[brevity]

Draft Express has a free article titled Underclassmen Who May Need To Return After Middling Combine Showings (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Underclassmen-Who-May-Need-To-Return-After-Middling-Combine-Showings-5482) that discusses many of the same names as ESPN and CBS above. Fun with cherry picking:


Marcus Lee: The Kentucky junior ranked statistically as the worst performer at the NBA Combine with a -3.3 PER, and the actual impression from watching him wasn't much different. Lee hasn't improved his body or skill-level in the least bit since arriving in Lexington, and has just an average feel for the game to compensate for that...


Justin Jackson: The 21-year-old forward is, for all intents and purposes, the same player, both physically and skill wise, that he was as a freshman at North Carolina. His body hasn't changed and he still continues to struggle making shots from the perimeter with any consistency...