Editorial: BC To Leave The Conference?

[hallcity]

An important newspape (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2016/03/13/data-suggests-boston-college-would-better-off-leaving-the-acc/8gNkvLLUJr9Gb7nhnBe6AI/story.html)r is calling for an ACC member school to head to another conference but you may be surprised which school and why. You may even be in favor of the move. I am.

[BD80]

An important newspape (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2016/03/13/data-suggests-boston-college-would-better-off-leaving-the-acc/8gNkvLLUJr9Gb7nhnBe6AI/story.html)r is calling for an ACC member school to head to another conference but you may be surprised which school and why. You may even be in favor of the move. I am.

But, but, but ...

We would lose all of those Patriot fans!

Where do I sign?

[OldPhiKap]

Rather than strive to improve, they should just give up?

I cannot imagine that there is a lot of support for this but I could be wrong.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Rather than strive to improve, they should just give up?

I cannot imagine that there is a lot of support for this but I could be wrong.

Isn't there some sort of exorbitabt exit fee?

Don't get me wrong, the young BC player's postgame interview after the tourney loss was excruciating. But geez, strive to do better, don't pack it in.

I suspect this is one reporter's shot across the bow rather than any sort of movement.

[superdave]

I would be in favor of this if we could get Texas and Oklahoma in the ACC.

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

[brevity]

Memo to Big Ten: Rutgers needs a buddy.

[Atlanta Duke]

Based on Joe Nocera's column in the NYT today about the UConn athletic department floundering in its current conference, the Huskies would be glad to step in if BC would step out. This background on the alleged reason Pitt was invited to join the ACC.

The shocker was that despite the A.C.C.’s storied basketball tradition, it picked Pitt over UConn.

Why? Boston College had blackballed UConn. “We didn’t want them in,” [BC AD Gene] DeFilippo told The Boston Globe in 2011. “It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/sports/basketball/football-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html?ref=sports

But as Nocera explains, getting a cut of major conference football $$ pays the bills. BC is not going anywhere.

[devildeac]

Memo to Big Ten: Rutgers needs a buddy.

What, what, what? They got maryland already :rolleyes: .

[TKG]

The comments in The Globe story are worth a read. Doug Flutie is referenced despite the fact that he graduated 30 years ago and one poster excuses the Eagles' dismal performance in men's basketball and in football as the result of stringent academic standards.

[Olympic Fan]

Isn't there some sort of exorbitabt exit fee?




There was, but not any more.

Instead, the 15 conference members signed over their TV rights through 2026.

Any team can now leave without penalty, but the ACC will own all their TV rights through the 2026 season. Where else could they go?

I think its fair to say that BC is bad for the ACC and the ACC is bad for BC (at least in football and basketball), but it makes no financial sense for BC to even think about leaving.

[mark34]

Based on Joe Nocera's column in the NYT today about the UConn athletic department floundering in its current conference, the Huskies would be glad to step in if BC would step out. This background on the alleged reason Pitt was invited to join the ACC.

The shocker was that despite the A.C.C.’s storied basketball tradition, it picked Pitt over UConn.

Why? Boston College had blackballed UConn. “We didn’t want them in,” [BC AD Gene] DeFilippo told The Boston Globe in 2011. “It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/sports/basketball/football-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html?ref=sports

But as Nocera explains, getting a cut of major conference football $$ pays the bills. BC is not going anywhere.

OMG noooooooo. Never UCONN. Please. Worst program on the planet. Hate them.. ok breathe, breathe

[Stray Gator]

There was, but not any more.

Instead, the 15 conference members signed over their TV rights through 2026.

Any team can now leave without penalty, but the ACC will own all their TV rights through the 2026 season. Where else could they go?

I think its fair to say that BC is bad for the ACC and the ACC is bad for BC (at least in football and basketball), but it makes no financial sense for BC to even think about leaving.

I expect that some "old school" ACC fans would support the idea of offering to waive the TV rights if they'll agree to take a couple of others with them.

[opossum]

Boston College joined the ACC?

[fan345678]

Boston College joined the ACC?

If you can't beat 'em...

[opossum]

There was, but not any more.

Instead, the 15 conference members signed over their TV rights through 2026.

Any team can now leave without penalty, but the ACC will own all their TV rights through the 2026 season. Where else could they go?

I think its fair to say that BC is bad for the ACC and the ACC is bad for BC (at least in football and basketball), but it makes no financial sense for BC to even think about leaving.

I never saw anything saying the ACC rescinded the exit fee, but if it's still in place I'm sure it could be waived. I don't know how serious any of this is, but I would hope the rest of the ACC wouldn't be jerks about it if they were dropping to the Patriot League or DIII or something like that. If they're leaving for the Big Ten, then screw 'em.

[Dev11]

They were competitive in both sports around a decade ago. What changed at the school to prevent such success from coming around again?

Also, the argument that they want to be the only New England school is silly. Two of the most powerful brands in college basketball are separated by a few miles of car dealerships and fast food chains, and they're both in the ACC.

[SCMatt33]

There was, but not any more.

Instead, the 15 conference members signed over their TV rights through 2026.

Any team can now leave without penalty, but the ACC will own all their TV rights through the 2026 season. Where else could they go?

I think its fair to say that BC is bad for the ACC and the ACC is bad for BC (at least in football and basketball), but it makes no financial sense for BC to even think about leaving.

So obviously this is more of an intellectual exercise more than anything, but the grant of rights is an interesting issue. I seem to remember some rumblings, both after the Big 12 instituted it and after the ACC instituted it, that it might not be enforceable, but it would take a huge risk for a school to leave, then go through a lawsuit and risk losing everything. It would make quite an interesting test case for a school like BC to leave for a conference like the Big East. I presume that the suggestion of joining the Big East implies them trying to be an "East Coast BYU" rather than shuttering the program, or trying to be a football-only member of a different conference. From this standpoint, the Big East would only be taking a small risk by accepting them, as the basketball revenue is a small chunk, and a 12th member along with BC would offset any potential loss. For BC, the risk would be huge, but they would be free to take it, and could even use the nuclear option of shuttering the program to try and force a settlement. I would probably think this sort of thing would end with BC allowing the grant of rights to be enforced, but the ACC would in turn, pay them those rights back as part of the yearly distribution. That way, the ACC can claim precedent that it's grant of rights is indeed enforceable to keep teams like FSU or Clemson in line, but BC would still get it's money.

[Wander]

I think this is a vast overreaction to recent events. BC made the tournament 4 out of their first 5 ACC basketball seasons. In football, they've made 2 ACC championship games, bowl games in 9 out of 12 ACC seasons, have a famous NFL player in Matt Ryan, and if I remember correctly were briefly ranked as high as #2 one season. Without looking it up, I doubt that even represents the worst ACC football-basketball-combined program in that time span, let alone one that is so bad that they should leave the conference (for example, Wake Forest is almost certainly worse).

[DU82]

They were competitive in both sports around a decade ago. What changed at the school to prevent such success from coming around again?

Also, the argument that they want to be the only New England school is silly. Two of the most powerful brands in college basketball are separated by a few miles of car dealerships and fast food chains, and they're both in the ACC.

There are no car dealers between Cameron and PNC Arena. (At least this will be true once the Ford dealer moves to 15-501, that is. You weren't referring to cheaters, were you? :rolleyes:)

[devildeac]

They were competitive in both sports around a decade ago. What changed at the school to prevent such success from coming around again?

Also, the argument that they want to be the only New England school is silly. Two of the most powerful brands in college basketball are separated by a few miles of car dealerships, a huge canyon of integrity and fast food chains, and they're both in the ACC.


Added some clarification ;) .

[Forrest]

So obviously this is more of an intellectual exercise than anything . . .

As long as that's the case, rather than kicking BC out, I'd like to suggest a change in the structure of the ACC for basketball. I'd like to see two divisions:

Atlantic Coast: Duke, UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, Ga Tech, Florida St

Big East: Miami, Louisville, Va Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Notre Dame

Teams would play home-and-homes with all other teams in their division, and play 4 games against teams from the other division.

The tournament would be by division, except for the championship game, with the Atlantic Coast tourney in Greensboro, and the Big East in MSG, or wherever. The winner of the Atlantic Coast tourney would get a trophy for being official Atlantic Coast champions, and the winner of the Big East tourney would get a nice certificate suitable for framing.

The two finalists would play for the automatic NCAA bid and a Post-It with a handwritten "We won the automatic bid" on it.

Revenue for basketball would be divided based on total attendance at each of the tournament sites.

I bet I would no longer get three separate emails from the Iron Dukes letting me know that this is my "last chance" to purchase six Atlantic Coast tournament ticket books.

[throatybeard]

What, what, what? They got maryland already :rolleyes: .

No, a buddy. Not someone to take the heat when the whole group hoists a cow onto the roof for the senior class prank.

[opossum]

As long as that's the case, rather than kicking BC out, I'd like to suggest a change in the structure of the ACC for basketball. I'd like to see two divisions:

Atlantic Coast: Duke, UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, Ga Tech, Florida St

Big East: Miami, Louisville, Va Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Notre Dame

Teams would play home-and-homes with all other teams in their division, and play 4 games against teams from the other division.

The tournament would be by division, except for the championship game, with the Atlantic Coast tourney in Greensboro, and the Big East in MSG, or wherever. The winner of the Atlantic Coast tourney would get a trophy for being official Atlantic Coast champions, and the winner of the Big East tourney would get a nice certificate suitable for framing.

The two finalists would play for the automatic NCAA bid and a Post-It with a handwritten "We won the automatic bid" on it.

Revenue for basketball would be divided based on total attendance at each of the tournament sites.

I bet I would no longer get three separate emails from the Iron Dukes letting me know that this is my "last chance" to purchase six Atlantic Coast tournament ticket books.

Great ideas, but I think the Big East Division needs one more to even it up. I vote for Georgetown, they have had a nice rivalry with Syracuse.

And I think we can pass the hat to get trophies for the big east division and autobid winners too. Unframed certificates and Post-it Notes are kind of bush league, and trophies really aren't that expensive --for example:

http://www.awardsforanything.com/category/all-events/basketball/antique-gold-basketball-resin

That one is only $32. And it was on the high end. Just picture it saying "ACC Big East Division Champions" instead of "Free Engraving Up to 40 Characters."

This one could be the autobid winner's trophy:

http://www.awardsforanything.com/category/all-events/basketball/basketball-2-astro-spinner-trophy

Again, picture it saying "ACC Autobid Winner" instead of the message about free engraving. I think the little disc with the basketball and net spins around, so that's a bonus. And that one is only $6.49. (41 cents per school, unless we just make the winner pay for it).

Other than that I agree 100%. I'll even cover the extra trophy expenses myself in exchange for a ticket book to the Greensboro Tournament.

[wilson]

As long as that's the case, rather than kicking BC out, I'd like to suggest a change in the structure of the ACC for basketball. I'd like to see two divisions:

Atlantic Coast: Duke, UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, Ga Tech, Florida St

Big East: Miami, Louisville, Va Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Notre Dame

Teams would play home-and-homes with all other teams in their division, and play 4 games against teams from the other division. I like this, but I'd prefer to just call these divisions "Us" and "Them."

[opossum]

I like this, but I'd prefer to just call these divisions "Us" and "Them."

That's even better.

[devildeac]

I like this, but I'd prefer to just call these divisions "Us" and "Them."

And after all we're only ordinary men...

[OldPhiKap]

And after all we're only ordinary men...

The lunatics are in the hall.

You really deserve sporkz for that, but alas I must wait before hitting you. Very very nice play.

[devildeac]

And after all we're only ordinary men...


The lunatics are in the hall.

You really deserve sporkz for that, but alas I must wait before hitting you. Very very nice play.

This might also work for division names:

Black and Blue

(And who knows which is which and who is who)

Up and Down

[devildeac]

The lunatics are in the hall.

You really deserve sporkz for that, but alas I must wait before hitting you. Very very nice play.

Give them to wilson, after all, it was his great alley-oop for the set-up. All I did was finish the play. ;)

[Jarhead]

As long as that's the case, rather than kicking BC out, I'd like to suggest a change in the structure of the ACC for basketball. I'd like to see two divisions:

Atlantic Coast: Duke, UNC, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, Ga Tech, Florida St

Big East: Miami, Louisville, Va Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Notre Dame

Teams would play home-and-homes with all other teams in their division, and play 4 games against teams from the other division.

The tournament would be by division, except for the championship game, with the Atlantic Coast tourney in Greensboro, and the Big East in MSG, or wherever. The winner of the Atlantic Coast tourney would get a trophy for being official Atlantic Coast champions, and the winner of the Big East tourney would get a nice certificate suitable for framing.

The two finalists would play for the automatic NCAA bid and a Post-It with a handwritten "We won the automatic bid" on it.

Revenue for basketball would be divided based on total attendance at each of the tournament sites.

I bet I would no longer get three separate emails from the Iron Dukes letting me know that this is my "last chance" to purchase six Atlantic Coast tournament ticket books.
I haven't given it much thought, about BC that is, but dividing the teams into two divisions does make sense to me. It works nicely with football. However, hijacking the Big East name won't work for me. The Big East already exists as a conference, so think of some other name.

[OldPhiKap]

Give them to wilson, after all, it was his great alley-oop for the set-up. All I did was finish the play. ;)

Done, good suggestion.

Going to Abbey Road Studios soon. Of all the great albums recorded there, none greater than DSotM.

[Acymetric]

Done, good suggestion.

Going to Abbey Road Studios soon. Of all the great albums recorded there, none greater than DSotM.

You might even get away with taking out the word "there". Hope you enjoy your trip!

[OldPhiKap]

You might even get away with taking out the word "there". Hope you enjoy your trip!

Three things I want to do:

1. Cross Abbey Road. Barefoot and out of step.
2. Walk through Soho in the rain, with a Chinese menu in my hand (Lee Ho Fooks is unfortunately closed, but will still look for it)
3. Walk around Grosvernor Square, (with) not a chill to the winter but a nip to the air.

London calling . . . .

Oh, and please don't go BC. Johnny Dawkins could get you bsck in the hunt.

[DieHard]

It was not THAT long ago that several people were suggesting a Duke split from the ACC for football. Would it not be better to play against the Georgetowns of the world and the Patriot League? Until we hired a good coach. I would suggest this first, and come to grips with the world changing. I too would rather it be the traditional ACC, but that ship sailed.

[duke2x]

I think this is a vast overreaction to recent events. BC made the tournament 4 out of their first 5 ACC basketball seasons. In football, they've made 2 ACC championship games, bowl games in 9 out of 12 ACC seasons, have a famous NFL player in Matt Ryan, and if I remember correctly were briefly ranked as high as #2 one season. Without looking it up, I doubt that even represents the worst ACC football-basketball-combined program in that time span, let alone one that is so bad that they should leave the conference (for example, Wake Forest is almost certainly worse).

I agree. 1 horrible year does not warrant a departure, and I don't see the ACC letting someone leave even by mutual consent. You revive the exit terms for FSU and Clemson before 2026(?) if you do.

[BD80]

Great ideas, but I think the Big East Division needs one more to even it up. I vote for Georgetown, they have had a nice rivalry with Syracuse.

...

Could BC beat Georgetown in football?

[Saratoga2]

I was hoping it was scandal plagued Louisville.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I haven't given it much thought, about BC that is, but dividing the teams into two divisions does make sense to me. It works nicely with football. However, hijacking the Big East name won't work for me. The Big East already exists as a conference, so think of some other name.

I believe you missed the joke.

Personally, I have zero emotion tied up in the new "ACC" schools. If any of them wanted to leave (all the way back to FSU) I would shed no tears.

Here's my dramatic conference realignment proposal:

Division "ACC"-

Duke
UNC
NSCU
Wake
GaTech
UVa
Clemson
The Artist Formerly Known as "Maryland"

Everyone else can go begging elsewhere.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I think this is a vast overreaction to recent events. BC made the tournament 4 out of their first 5 ACC basketball seasons. In football, they've made 2 ACC championship games, bowl games in 9 out of 12 ACC seasons, have a famous NFL player in Matt Ryan, and if I remember correctly were briefly ranked as high as #2 one season. Without looking it up, I doubt that even represents the worst ACC football-basketball-combined program in that time span, let alone one that is so bad that they should leave the conference (for example, Wake Forest is almost certainly worse).

I agree completely. This whole thread represents much of what is wrong with journalism today, particularly sports journalism. Take something that has happened in the recent past, ignoring a slightly broader scope of history. Throw out a sensationalistic hypothesis regarding that "trend." Hope people pick up on it and socialize it on the internet. If by some small chance it actually happens, jump up and down and claim that it was all your brainchild. Otherwise, find the next ridiculous idea to promote, lather, rinse, repeat.

[wilson]

I believe you missed the joke.

Personally, I have zero emotion tied up in the new "ACC" schools. If any of them wanted to leave (all the way back to FSU) I would shed no tears.

Here's my dramatic conference realignment proposal:

Division "ACC"-

Duke
UNC
NSCU
Wake
GaTech
UVa
Clemson
The Artist Formerly Known as "Maryland"

Everyone else can go begging elsewhere.Not even Florida State? They've been in the conference for like a quarter century now. Seems to me that they're done pledging.
If forced to choose between the two, I'd take the Noles over the Twerps.

[OldPhiKap]

Put me in the "no Maryland" camp.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree completely. This whole thread represents much of what is wrong with journalism today, particularly sports journalism. Take something that has happened in the recent past, ignoring a slightly broader scope of history. Throw out a sensationalistic hypothesis regarding that "trend." Hope people pick up on it and socialize it on the internet. If by some small chance it actually happens, jump up and down and claim that it was all your brainchild. Otherwise, find the next ridiculous idea to promote, lather, rinse, repeat.

Sweet. Let's turn this into yet another thread that critiques sports journalism rather than discussing the topic at hand. Can we somehow tie in Grayson Allen and the UNC scandal too?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Sweet. Let's turn this into yet another thread that critiques sports journalism rather than discussing the topic at hand. Can we somehow tie in Grayson Allen and the UNC scandal too?

I don't want to get into a flame war here but have you noticed the state of sports journalism lately? Have you watched "journalists" scream out baseless opinions on ESPN? Do you see the click-bait on most web sites? If the topic at hand was worth discussing, I would be happy to discuss it (though personally I think topics like these are better discussed in three weeks when the season is over). But this topic isn't really worth discussing because the odds of BC leaving the ACC are slim and none. I could give you many reasons why I believe this, but I don't think it is worth further dignifying this discussion.

[Henderson]

An important newspaper is calling for an ACC member school to head to another conference****.

I say we take a vote on which one goes. Spoiler Alert: My vote would not be BC.

[Henderson]

Put me in the "no Maryland" camp.

That'd be the camp without the open sewers and pustule-covered wretches dying in the streets. You can't miss it.

[Dev11]

I don't want to get into a flame war here but have you noticed the state of sports journalism lately? Have you watched "journalists" scream out baseless opinions on ESPN? Do you see the click-bait on most web sites? If the topic at hand was worth discussing, I would be happy to discuss it (though personally I think topics like these are better discussed in three weeks when the season is over). But this topic isn't really worth discussing because the odds of BC leaving the ACC are slim and none. I could give you many reasons why I believe this, but I don't think it is worth further dignifying this discussion.

I can't tell you how highly I recommend never watching ESPN except for games and never going to their website except to grab stats for your Duke-centric podcast. Get your analysis from other sites, or just pick out the writers you like.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't want to get into a flame war here but have you noticed the state of sports journalism lately? Have you watched "journalists" scream out baseless opinions on ESPN? Do you see the click-bait on most web sites? If the topic at hand was worth discussing, I would be happy to discuss it (though personally I think topics like these are better discussed in three weeks when the season is over). But this topic isn't really worth discussing because the odds of BC leaving the ACC are slim and none. I could give you many reasons why I believe this, but I don't think it is worth further dignifying this discussion.

I agree with you one hundred percent that this is better discussed post-season when we don't have a team with a ton of potential getting ready to take the floor. I'm already working on an off-season thread in my head to talk about a handful of media issues and their relative importance. In fact, my entire point is that I'm frustrated that every single thread these days turns into this discussion.

I will happily leave this alone for the next few weeks, with the exception of getting wildly annoyed when each and every thread takes this turn.

Let's focus on what unifies us! Go Duke! Eff Maryland! BC? Who cares!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I agree with you one hundred percent that this is better discussed post-season when we don't have a team with a ton of potential getting ready to take the floor. I'm already working on an off-season thread in my head to talk about a handful of media issues and their relative importance. In fact, my entire point is that I'm frustrated that every single thread these days turns into this discussion.

I will happily leave this alone for the next few weeks, with the exception of getting wildly annoyed when each and every thread takes this turn.

Let's focus on what unifies us! Go Duke! Eff Maryland! BC? Who cares!

I'm with you. Which is why I don't think these threads should be opened to begin with. So I guess the best course of action for both of us is to just ignore them.

[cakerace]

Anyone favoring BC leaving has obviously never heard the Dropkick Murphys sing the nation's oldest fight song. Happy (early) St.Patrick's Day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KDpC3JgdFU

[wsb3]

I expect that some "old school" ACC fans would support the idea of offering to waive the TV rights if they'll agree to take a couple of others with them.

Well a couple would be a start....

From an "old school" ACC fan.. :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) No one cares about college sports here. Despite the plethora of universities in greater Boston, college basketball and college football are jokes. Interestingly enough, college hockey has a bigger following than either college basketball or college football. But that's because BU and BC have historically been awesome in hockey.

2) March Madness isn't that "mad" in Boston. There is too much love for the Celtics and the NBA than for anyone to care about college basketball in general. I was in one of the most well-known sports bars in Boston last year for the first weekend, and there were about 15 fans watching the tournament at 2pm. In Durham, every sports bar is packed.

3) Connecticut cares 10x about college basketball than Boston does. This is because a) Connecticut doesn't have any professional sports and b) UCONN has a huge following in Connecticut. I currently live in New Haven (moved from Boston two months ago) and already I've met more people who care about college basketball in New Haven than all of my time in Boston.

4) I'll be sad to see BC leave if they ever do, cus it's usually 1 of 2-3 Duke games I catch in person a year.

[cato]

I don't want to get into a flame war here but have you noticed the state of sports journalism lately? Have you watched "journalists" scream out baseless opinions on ESPN? Do you see the click-bait on most web sites? If the topic at hand was worth discussing, I would be happy to discuss it (though personally I think topics like these are better discussed in three weeks when the season is over). But this topic isn't really worth discussing because the odds of BC leaving the ACC are slim and none. I could give you many reasons why I believe this, but I don't think it is worth further dignifying this discussion.

I have no trouble finding sports journalists that I enjoy quite about, including Laura Keeley. Notably, I almost never consume any ESPN "content" other than actual games, and mostly read journalists who publish in the local papers of the teams I follow.

[Doria]

I have no trouble finding sports journalists that I enjoy quite about, including Laura Keeley. Notably, I almost never consume any ESPN "content" other than actual games, and mostly read journalists who publish in the local papers of the teams I follow.

I like to read recaps of sports games on the iPad to wind down for bed, and I almost always read the local papers' stories; they're generally more knowledgeable about the teams (IMO) and frankly, often better written.

[throatybeard]

If Boston College left the ACC in the forest, would it make a sound?

[Skitzle]

I can't tell you how highly I recommend never watching ESPN except for games and never going to their website except to grab stats for your Duke-centric podcast. Get your analysis from other sites, or just pick out the writers you like.

Yea basically, Zach lowe and box scores is all ESPN means to me these days, and I used to work there.

[OldPhiKap]

If Boston College left the ACC in the forest, would Daniel Ewing still get a technical??

Friendly amendment.

I like BC because they blocked UConn from joining the ACC. I at least owe them for that.

[YmoBeThere]

BC's mistake in basketball was getting rid of Al Skinner IMHO. Vandy is going through a similar issue with former Roy Williams protege, Kevin Stallings. I think my fellow Vamdy alums(grad school for me) are in denial about what kind of coach they can attract. I've heard mention of going after Witchita State's Marshall. Well, WSU, has more Final Four's than VU(2 to 0) and easier academic requirements.

[budwom]

1) No one cares about college sports here. Despite the plethora of universities in greater Boston, college basketball and college football are jokes. Interestingly enough, college hockey has a bigger following than either college basketball or college football. But that's because BU and BC have historically been awesome in hockey.

2) March Madness isn't that "mad" in Boston. There is too much love for the Celtics and the NBA than for anyone to care about college basketball in general. I was in one of the most well-known sports bars in Boston last year for the first weekend, and there were about 15 fans watching the tournament at 2pm. In Durham, every sports bar is packed.

3) Connecticut cares 10x about college basketball than Boston does. This is because a) Connecticut doesn't have any professional sports and b) UCONN has a huge following in Connecticut. I currently live in New Haven (moved from Boston two months ago) and already I've met more people who care about college basketball in New Haven than all of my time in Boston.

4) I'll be sad to see BC leave if they ever do, cus it's usually 1 of 2-3 Duke games I catch in person a year.

as a fellow New Englander I agree with your points (though I despise UCONN as does much of the ACC establismhent, and would prefer having North Korea in the conference).

But BC really has had a very good tradition in football, and it wasn't that long ago that we played them for the ACC championship in hoopa(if memory is correct, perhaps dubious). BC's
problems have been due to horrible personnel moves, not to some inherent problem in athletics. A competent AD would help them immensely.
The notion that they can't compete in football is nothing less than ludicrous. Here is their record for the last ten seasons:
10-3, 11-3, 9-5, 8-5, 7-6, 4-8, 2-10, 7-6, 7-6, 3-9.

Seven bowl seasons in 10 years.

Similar stats in hoops...Al Skinner was a solid coach who had seven NCAA teams in 13 seasons....

In short, there's nothing wrong with the Beagles that can't be fixed.

[OldPhiKap]

as a fellow new englander i agree with your points (though i despise uconn as does much of the acc establismhent, and would prefer having north korea in the conference).

But bc really has had a very good tradition in football, and it wasn't that long ago that we played them for the acc championship in hoopa(if memory is correct, perhaps dubious). Bc's
problems have been due to horrible personnel moves, not to some inherent problem in athletics. A competent ad would help them immensely.
The notion that they can't compete in football is nothing less than ludicrous. Here is their record for the last ten seasons:
10-3, 11-3, 9-5, 8-5, 7-6, 4-8, 2-10, 7-6, 7-6, 3-9.

Seven bowl seasons in 10 years.

Similar stats in hoops...al skinner was a solid coach who had seven ncaa teams in 13 seasons...

In short, there's nothing wrong with the beagles that can't be fixed.

iswydt.

[duke blue brewcrew]

1) No one cares about college sports here. Despite the plethora of universities in greater Boston, college basketball and college football are jokes. Interestingly enough, college hockey has a bigger following than either college basketball or college football. But that's because BU and BC have historically been awesome in hockey.

2) March Madness isn't that "mad" in Boston. There is too much love for the Celtics and the NBA than for anyone to care about college basketball in general. I was in one of the most well-known sports bars in Boston last year for the first weekend, and there were about 15 fans watching the tournament at 2pm. In Durham, every sports bar is packed.

3) Connecticut cares 10x about college basketball than Boston does. This is because a) Connecticut doesn't have any professional sports and b) UCONN has a huge following in Connecticut. I currently live in New Haven (moved from Boston two months ago) and already I've met more people who care about college basketball in New Haven than all of my time in Boston.

4) I'll be sad to see BC leave if they ever do, cus it's usually 1 of 2-3 Duke games I catch in person a year.

Based on conversations I've had over the years with a few close friends from the Boston area, I absolutely agree with this. Boston is a professional sports loving town, and couldn't care less about college sports. It's surprising they haven't had more success, especially in football when you take a look at the pros they've put in the NFL over the past several years. I'm always an advocate for the overall success of the ACC. It's a delicate balance of my love for the "old school" ACC days, and the realities of modern day college athletics and TV money. My love for the old school would want to see some consistency of membership, some development of rivalries, and the enjoyment of the history the ACC has accrued over the years. Who is BC's rival in the ACC, Pitt? Sadly, in their decade of membership (a drop in the bucket when compared to the original members), there doesn't seem to be many inroads made by BC into the ACC culture. Pitt, VT, Syracuse, and Miami have all been quality additions IMHO, and all have been highly competitive in the conference. I believe Louisville will do the same in very quick fashion given their level of competitive play in both football and basketball. So, if the ACC can raise the floor by subtracting an unsuccessful program, and replacing it with a more successful one that embraces the opportunity and challenge of competing in the ACC, then it's tough to not be in favor of it. Football drives the bus when it comes to TV money, so my hope is that should BC ever leave, they are replaced by a school who can hopefully compete in both sports, but at the very least brings something to the table in football.

[budwom]

^ i think you really underestimate BC's football history....not to mention their rivalry with Notre Dame.
It's nothing new that pro sports reign supreme in Boston, that happens anywhere you have a major city...traditional
ACC schools are mostly long, long distances from the nearest pro franchises, hence little competition for affection.

In short, BC has dealt with this city dynamic for a long time, and they've been successful in both football and basketball.
No reason they can't be in the future.

[flyingdutchdevil]

^ i think you really underestimate BC's football history...not to mention their rivalry with Notre Dame.
It's nothing new that pro sports reign supreme in Boston, that happens anywhere you have a major city...traditional
ACC schools are mostly long, long distances from the nearest pro franchises, hence little competition for affection.

In short, BC has dealt with this city dynamic for a long time, and they've been successful in both football and basketball.
No reason they can't be in the future.

While it is true that major cities are more into pro sports than college athletics, I think you're giving BC too much credit for their impact on Boston sports. And I really think the issue stems from the sheer number of schools in Boston and the lack of a one-school hold on the college fan base. LA has UCLA/USC, New York has St John's (or had St John's), DC has Georgetown/GT, Atlanta has Georgia Tech, etc etc etc. Boston doesn't have BC, because the city doesn't embrace BC even when they are good. It's this weird mixed bag between BU, BC, Harvard (the Harvard-Yale game is the single most publicized event in Boston), and Northeastern, all of which have D1 sports (most aren't great. Some are good. And they all love hockey). Couple that with pro sports and the fact that Boston is a small city population-wise, it's easy to understand why the focus on college sports just isn't there.

[duke blue brewcrew]

^ i think you really underestimate BC's football history...not to mention their rivalry with Notre Dame.
It's nothing new that pro sports reign supreme in Boston, that happens anywhere you have a major city...traditional
ACC schools are mostly long, long distances from the nearest pro franchises, hence little competition for affection.

Thanks for the assist on the Notre Dame tie. Sadly, the Irish aren't exactly ACC members in football.


While it is true that major cities are more into pro sports than college athletics, I think you're giving BC too much credit for their impact on Boston sports. And I really think the issue stems from the sheer number of schools in Boston and the lack of a one-school hold on the college fan base. LA has UCLA/USC, New York has St John's (or had St John's), DC has Georgetown/GT, Atlanta has Georgia Tech, etc etc etc. Boston doesn't have BC, because the city doesn't embrace BC even when they are good. It's this weird mixed bag between BU, BC, Harvard (the Harvard-Yale game is the single most publicized event in Boston), and Northeastern, all of which have D1 sports (most aren't great. Some are good. And they all love hockey). Couple that with pro sports and the fact that Boston is a small city population-wise, it's easy to understand why the focus on college sports just isn't there.

I would suggest to both of you that using Atlanta/GT as an example in this discussion is a bad idea. Atlanta itself is a very good mix of college/pro sports fans. In fact, college sports may even have an edge, especially in football. That said, despite GTs location in downtown Atlanta, UGA and the SEC reign supreme in this area. Which for the most part means that college basketball is a dark season for most college sports fans in this footprint. GT, the ACC, and college basketball fans are an extreme minority. I stopped listening to local sports talk radio in Atlanta long ago for that very reason. They only know two subjects, UGA Football/recruiting which is 24/7 - 365, and to a far lesser extent, Braves baseball. I can promise you right now that UGA football discussions about WHATEVER is getting as much if not more airtime on Atlanta sports radio air than the NCAA tourney. It's awful.

[budwom]

While it is true that major cities are more into pro sports than college athletics, I think you're giving BC too much credit for their impact on Boston sports. And I really think the issue stems from the sheer number of schools in Boston and the lack of a one-school hold on the college fan base. LA has UCLA/USC, New York has St John's (or had St John's), DC has Georgetown/GT, Atlanta has Georgia Tech, etc etc etc. Boston doesn't have BC, because the city doesn't embrace BC even when they are good. It's this weird mixed bag between BU, BC, Harvard (the Harvard-Yale game is the single most publicized event in Boston), and Northeastern, all of which have D1 sports (most aren't great. Some are good. And they all love hockey). Couple that with pro sports and the fact that Boston is a small city population-wise, it's easy to understand why the focus on college sports just isn't there.

I don't believe is said ANYTHING about BC's "impact on Boston sports." I'm simply responding to the notion that people feel they can't compete, or haven't competed, which is pure nonsense.
BC has rarely had much impact on Boston sports, and they don't need to. But they HAVE had considerable success in both football and hoops, and can do so again with competent leadership, which they don't have.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't believe is said ANYTHING about BC's "impact on Boston sports." I'm simply responding to the notion that people feel they can't compete, or haven't competed, which is pure nonsense.
BC has rarely had much impact on Boston sports, and they don't need to. But they HAVE had considerable success in both football and hoops, and can do so again with competent leadership, which they don't have.

Then I clearly misunderstood your post. My apologies.

Thread was going towards the "Boston hates college sports" (which I tend to believe).

I agree that BC can compete, but having community support is huge for recruiting. Hopefully BC can cross that hump.

[budwom]

Thanks for the assist on the Notre Dame tie. Sadly, the Irish aren't exactly ACC members in football.



I would suggest to both of you that using Atlanta/GT as an example in this discussion is a bad idea. Atlanta itself is a very good mix of college/pro sports fans. In fact, college sports may even have an edge, especially in football. That said, despite GTs location in downtown Atlanta, UGA and the SEC reign supreme in this area. Which for the most part means that college basketball is a dark season for most college sports fans in this footprint. GT, the ACC, and college basketball fans are an extreme minority. I stopped listening to local sports talk radio in Atlanta long ago for that very reason. They only know two subjects, UGA Football/recruiting which is 24/7 - 365, and to a far lesser extent, Braves baseball. I can promise you right now that UGA football discussions about WHATEVER is getting as much if not more airtime on Atlanta sports radio air than the NCAA tourney. It's awful.

I guess I should bow out of this thread since both you and dutchdevil can't seem to read what I write. (I said absolutely nothing about Atlanta, regarding your post, and I said nothing about BC's "impact on Boston".
No sense in trying to defend or discuss comments I haven't made.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I guess I should bow out of this thread since both you and dutchdevil can't seem to read what I write. (I said absolutely nothing about Atlanta, regarding your post, and I said nothing about BC's "impact on Boston".
No sense in trying to defend or discuss comments I haven't made.

While I understand your frustration, you don't have to be a jerk about it. Duke Blue Brewcrew and I were responding more to the college dynamic in Boston rather than the ability of BC to compete. BC has been historically successful, but I think that it's tougher in this environment when players want to go to a school with a strong local environment, or which BC doesn't really have.

[budwom]

You might do well with less name calling and more absorption of what others write.

[sagegrouse]

While I understand your frustration, you don't have to be a jerk about it. Duke Blue Brewcrew and I were responding more to the college dynamic in Boston rather than the ability of BC to compete. BC has been historically successful, but I think that it's tougher in this environment when players want to go to a school with a strong local environment, or which BC doesn't really have.

Budwom is not a "jerk;" moreover, he's a neighbor of yours, at least by the way distances are measured in the American West.

[duke79]

Then I clearly misunderstood your post. My apologies.

Thread was going towards the "Boston hates college sports" (which I tend to believe).

I agree that BC can compete, but having community support is huge for recruiting. Hopefully BC can cross that hump.

Having lived in Massachusetts almost my entire life (with the exception of my Durham days), I'm not so sure that the region "hates" college sports, but rather just doesn't care much about college sports. I mean, we have the Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, etc. Why be interested in college sports? And with the possible exception of BC and despite the number of colleges and universities in the area, there really isn't any "high quality" college athletics happening. BU and Harvard and BC have had some good hockey teams and BC has had some good football teams (see Doug Flutie and the BC football team in the 80's, when people in Boston DID care about college sports for a short period of time!). But the rest of the college sports in the area are simply not that exciting to most sports fans. I mean, there's not a lot of people rushing out to watch the Wellesley College cross country team compete.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Having lived in Massachusetts almost my entire life (with the exception of my Durham days), I'm not so sure that the region "hates" college sports, but rather just doesn't care much about college sports. I mean, we have the Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, etc. Why be interested in college sports? And with the possible exception of BC and despite the number of colleges and universities in the area, there really isn't any "high quality" college athletics happening. BU and Harvard and BC have had some good hockey teams and BC has had some good football teams (see Doug Flutie and the BC football team in the 80's, when people in Boston DID care about college sports for a short period of time!). But the rest of the college sports in the area are simply not that exciting to most sports fans. I mean, there's not a lot of people rushing out to watch the Wellesley College cross country team compete.

I was being facetious with "hates", but your point is excellent. And with 9 pro championships in 13 years, Boston has been spoiled rotten. Who wants to see local college sports (or college sports in general) when you can see athletes at the top of their game compete?

[hurleyfor3]

If BC were so irrelevant, you'd think Duke people wouldn't get as emotional as a few of you seem to be in this thread. Isn't the NCAA Tournament going on?

Within my sports-viewing lifetime, BC athletics has delivered stomach-punching victories over Miami football, Notre Dame football and unc basketball. That's reason enough to keep them around.

Besides, how will changing conferences make them suck less? Or is the point to be somewhere where they can suck in peace? Who would take them anyway, the Patriot League? Oh, that's right; they're Jesuit. Back to the Big East.

[CDu]

While it is true that major cities are more into pro sports than college athletics, I think you're giving BC too much credit for their impact on Boston sports. And I really think the issue stems from the sheer number of schools in Boston and the lack of a one-school hold on the college fan base. LA has UCLA/USC, New York has St John's (or had St John's), DC has Georgetown/GT, Atlanta has Georgia Tech, etc etc etc. Boston doesn't have BC, because the city doesn't embrace BC even when they are good. It's this weird mixed bag between BU, BC, Harvard (the Harvard-Yale game is the single most publicized event in Boston), and Northeastern, all of which have D1 sports (most aren't great. Some are good. And they all love hockey). Couple that with pro sports and the fact that Boston is a small city population-wise, it's easy to understand why the focus on college sports just isn't there.

Two things: (1) Atlanta is a UGa city, not a GT city; (2) DC is a Maryand city not a Georgetown city.

[uh_no]

Two things: (1) Atlanta is a UGa city, not a GT city; (2) DC is a Maryand city not a Georgetown city.

it's not about the people there rooting for the team...it's about the game having to be carried in that city...which is certainly true for BC in boston and GT in Atlanta...whether most people watch it or not is irrelevant since it's a region that has to show the game.

[jimsumner]

I confess I'm quite surprised at the collapse of BC hoops. It wasn't that long ago that they were trotting out very competitive teams with guys like Jared Dudley, Sean Marshall, Tyrese Rice and Ryan Anderson. BC beat Duke as recently as 2009 and lost at the buzzer in 2013.

They are a hockey school to be sure. But with the right coach, I can't see how they can't be competitive in ACC basketball.

And I think the 0-8 football campaign is a fluke. I expect them to be in the bowl picture more often than not.

[Doria]

I confess I'm quite surprised at the collapse of BC hoops. It wasn't that long ago that they were trotting out very competitive teams with guys like Jared Dudley, Sean Marshall, Tyrese Rice and Ryan Anderson. BC beat Duke as recently as 2009 and lost at the buzzer in 2013.

They are a hockey school to be sure. But with the right coach, I can't see how they can't be competitive in ACC basketball.

I totally agree with this. I've never thought that BC was a hoops power, but it wasn't that long ago that they were largely solid. I imagine they will be again. Many programs go through a bad season or two (maybe not of the proportions that BC had, but reasonably bad nonetheless), and still are able to get back on track. I expect that BC will do so, as well.

[ipatent]

An important newspape (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2016/03/13/data-suggests-boston-college-would-better-off-leaving-the-acc/8gNkvLLUJr9Gb7nhnBe6AI/story.html)r is calling for an ACC member school to head to another conference but you may be surprised which school and why. You may even be in favor of the move. I am.

If Wake Forest can compete, so can BC. It's just a matter of finding the right coaches and a little luck recruiting.

Expansion has made life a lot more difficult for the non-revenue teams, though, which tend to have to ride on a bus instead of flying chartered. Lots of bus rides south for the BC field hockey team, etc. doesn't do much for their student athlete experiences.

[Pghdukie]

Rick Kuhn knows how to put interest in BC basketball !

[OldPhiKap]

Rick Kuhn knows how to put interest in BC basketball !

Two cents at a time?