MBB: Duke 92, NCSU 89 Post-Game Thread

[pfrduke]

Survive and advance.

[fuse]

Darn work getting in the way- from the box score I missed a doozy.

[Bob Green]

That was an exciting ballgame and an excellent win. A lot of toughness demonstrated by both teams. Plumlee's nose is probably broke but he refused to stay out of the game. Ingram was on fire in the 1st half with Allen taking over in the 2nd. I'm really proud of the team battling for 40 minutes to secure the victory.

[Doria]

That took a lot more than I was hoping, but good to come out with the W. Good overall game by Luke, and how tough was Plumlee.

State played tough, appeared to run out of gas in the end and couldn't take the game, despite our best efforts to give it to them.

[jaytoc]

Yeah, I was reduced to occasional updates on line and checking in with the comments on the live chat. But from that I conclude that Ingram scored early in the second half, but never again. What was the story there? State selling out at all costs to stop him? Also, it looks like stallball and an ill-advised shot by Grayson almost cost Devils the game. Unfair?
From those of you who saw it, comment?

[fraggler]

Yeah, I was reduced to occasional updates on line and checking in with the comments on the live chat. But from that I conclude that Ingram scored early in the second half, but never again. What was the story there? State selling out at all costs to stop him? Also, it looks like stallball and an ill-advised shot by Grayson almost cost Devils the game. Unfair?
From those of you who saw it, comment?

Grayson helped us break open the game late in second half, and then nearly gave it back to them with an ill-advised shot and then a flagrant foul down the stretch. I still love him, though.

[mapei]

Stallball never really manifested - because of GA's very ill-advised shot.

[Bob Green]

Also, it looks like stallball and an ill-advised shot by Grayson almost cost Devils the game. Unfair?

Yes. There was no stall ball. Duke used up the whole shot clock on one late possession with State playing good defense.

[kAzE]

I saw the last 5 minutes, got to see another flagrant foul on Grayson, and more talk from the announcers about his hated status. I hope we have enough gas in the tank to beat Notre Dame. We might need 1 more win to secure a 4 seed. After that, it's all gravy as far as I'm concerned.

[tbyers11]

Yeah, I was reduced to occasional updates on line and checking in with the comments on the live chat. But from that I conclude that Ingram scored early in the second half, but never again. What was the story there? State selling out at all costs to stop him? Also, it looks like stallball and an ill-advised shot by Grayson almost cost Devils the game. Unfair?
From those of you who saw it, comment?

We didn't look to Ingram much in the last 15 minutes. State did key on him a bit but Grayson was taking over. Stall ball didn't hurt us. We scored on a couple of possessions in the last 4 minutes were we ran the shot clock down a bit. An ill-advised foul by Grayson nearly cost us the game. He tried to wrap up Barber on the defensive end before he could take off on the break. He was a split second late. If he had just tried to foul and didn't grab it might have been a common foul. NBA players do the same thing on a nightly basis. Thankfully, Barber only hit 2 of 4 FTs on the flagrant 1 and his FTs on the ensuing possession when he was fouled driving to the hoop.

[JNort]

Everyone played great except for Matt. Hasn't looked right since the injury

[Billy Dat]

After a really nice stretch of ball from 9-6 minutes remaining in the game where we pushed the lead to 9, and NCSU was "out on their feet" in boxing parlance, we nearly did everything we could to give it away. Still though, we won and I'll accentuate the positive:

-Plumlee 17, 10 and 4, 7 for 9 from the stripe, with a broken nose and the biggest play of the game with his And1 with a minute to play off an offensive board which broke the tie
-Kennard with a big 22 despite his foul on Cat Barber's 3 and his missed front end one-and-one in the final minute. That wild shot that hung on the rim and eventually dropped to keep us up 7 with 4:30 to go was a big shot
-BI with a huge first half
-Grayson with 19 but, my goodness son, between the ill advised rushed 3 when we were trying to work clock with just under 4 to go, to the intentional on Barber, you had me a little frustrated
-Jeter with solid minutes
-Matt Jones and DT didn't have much to talk about, but they, along with Grayson, had to try and slow Cat and that is no easy task. We are lucky he had that arm bruise and had the distraction of aggravating it and needing to adjust to that sleeve

We take the win, but definitely out of character for this team to not execute down the stretch.

It was a wild and crazy offensive display though. NCSU's fatigue played a major role and I think we win by 10+ if we had executed better down the stretch.

Hope MP3s nose gets straightened out because he was Player of the Game and we'll need him tomorrow!

[Troublemaker]

Luke has developed to the point where if you give him 30-35 mpg, I'm confident he'll produce 15-20 points. Our offense had been looking raggedy down the stretch of the season -- probably in part due to fatigue -- so he gives us a real nice shot in the arm to complement Grayson and Brandon.

The defense was horrible today but I'll chalk that up to a fluky poor performance (or fluky great performance from State) since we've been pretty good on defense for a month now. Let's see how we do against Notre Dame's powerhouse offense tomorrow.

[Henderson]

The replay is up on ESPN3.

[AvlDukie]

Brandon carried us in the first half.
Grayson very good in the second half until last 3 minutes when he made several really dumb plays.
Marshall was a MAN (17/10), and continues to define the heart of this team.
Luke was very solid throughout.

Oh - and Cat Barber is very, very good.

Great win, and on to the next one!
Tired of ND beating us past few years....

[uh_no]

Luke has developed to the point where if you give him 30-35 mpg, I'm confident he'll produce 15-20 points.

vs WFU: 21 mins, 0 pts

I think 15 points if we gave him another 9 minutes of play time might be a stretch.

He's having some really good games lately, but he still has clunkers as well. He's a freshman, and I want him on the floor, but expecting 15-20 out of him every night is a lot to ask, and IMO simply isn't going to happen for every of our remaining games.

[Saratoga2]

Ingram was great throughout the game. His defense and rebounding was important the whole way. I do think he tired some in the second half and the NC State defense concentrated on him. Luke also had great game. He did so many things on both defense and offense. The third great game was by Marshall. That was the best game I have ever seen him play. The fact that he came back in with a broken nose and those late minutes were critical to our win says a lot aobut him.

Grayson had a good second half but his aggressiveness and sometimes questionable decision making has to take some of the luster off. The coaches have to try hard to show him where his game can improve before he winds but being suspended.

Hard fought win in an incredible offensive display buy both teams. Win and advance. We should have a good chance against ND even though we will be tired.

[BandAlum83]

The play of the game for me was MP3's huge offensive rebound and tough putback and 1 with 1:14 to go in the game. Took a tie game and put us up 92-89.

MOTM for me.

17 points
10 rebounds (5/5 from the field)
7/9 FTs
1 steal
4 blocks

Likely broken nose.

Absolutely Monster Game!!

[Stray Gator]

Breathe a sigh of relief and rest up for tomorrow. State often saves its best for the ACC Tourney, and they certainly brought their "A" game today. It took all our guys had to survive, so a tip of the hat to both teams for an exciting contest. And a special thanks to Marshall for coming back from the broken nose to give us a strong finish up front, including scoring the winning points on a tough old-fashioned three-point play.

I was a little disappointed that a game which had been played at such a high level offensively with so few errors through the first 16 minutes -- both teams shot better than 52% from the field and about 45% from behind the arc, while we had only 4 turnovers and they had only 6 -- devolved into such an unsightly series of mistakes in that last 3.5 minutes, which allowed State to erase the lead we had built (and should have been able to hold). But here's hoping our guys can get back in the groove and bring their best defense to the arena tomorrow afternoon. It's time to take one back from the Irish.

[Troublemaker]

The play of the game for me was MP3's huge offensive rebound and tough putback and 1 with 1:14 to go in the game. Took a tie game and put us up 92-89.

MOTM for me.

17 points
10 rebounds (5/5 from the field)
7/9 FTs
1 steal
4 blocks

Likely broken nose.

Absolutely Monster Game!!

Indeed, what a stud he was today!

Hopefully he'll continue to play well in a mask.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

Marshall was a MAN (17/10), and continues to define the heart of this team.


Senior leadership from those who had not excelled previously is such a hallmark of the Duke era going all the way back to Greg Koubek's emergence up through the obvious examples of Brian Zoubek, Lance Thomas, and now Marshall. I left out of ton of examples obviously. One might even add Quinn Cook because his jump his senior year was so massive.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Marshall was a man's man today. To bring back an old cheer "the monster's out of the cage!"

LGD GTHc!

[szstark]

What was Allen thinking on that foul? I don't buy that he was just a second late in trying to make a legitimate stop. If the play had been reversed, this board would be going ballistic about Barber being a thug. I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.

[jdj4duke]

I saw the last 5 minutes, got to see another flagrant foul on Grayson, and more talk from the announcers about his hated status.

Announcers were totally obnoxious over a nothing play. It was a foul and was correctly called and they pretty much turned it into mass murder. Doris Burke was excruciatingly annoying about it. Nice of them also to counsel Grayson to embrace the hate, a great portion of which they are fomenting. And how convenient to have the tripping video all teed up and available as soon as they wanted it. Jackasses. Jackass network.

The passing in the last few seconds prior to Kennard getting fouled was great. Reminds me of a game like 25 years ago at Clemson ending in similar circumstances. Danny Ferry and team mates moved the ball all over the court and Clemson couldn't find anyone to foul. I remember it because of Dan Bonner hollering "GREAT PASSING!".

[rsvman]

Scarier than it needed to be, but a win is a win. Sometimes I have absolutely no idea what Grayson is thinking. In today's game, there were two such moments: 1) firing up a 28-footer for no reason with time left on the shot clock, and 2) the "clear path" foul that was called a Flagrant 1. Really, Grayson? C'mon, man!

Luke was huge. Not just in scoring. Oh, and by the way, he did not foul Cat on the 4-point play. Cat saw that Luke was closing fast, shot the ball and then kicked out his foot and fell down. That almost killed us. I was kind of surprised to see Luke miss the front end of a 1-and-1 with 2 seconds left in the game, but it is what it is. I would think that situation isn't all that pressure-packed, because the team was likely to win one way or the other. I can't believe that State waited until there were 2 seconds left to make the foul, and that they chose Luke. That was some very stupid game management. There were about 12 seconds left when we corralled the rebound on their missed shot. Somebody should've been fouled immediately, didn't really matter who. And if you decided to wait to foul, you should've fouled our worst free-throw shooter, not our best.

All's well that ends well.

[Troublemaker]

Postgame presser: http://livestream.com/ACCDN/events/4829531/videos/114962640

Duke portion begins around 15 minute mark

[-jk]

What was Allen thinking on that foul? I don't buy that he was just a second late in trying to make a legitimate stop. If the play had been reversed, this board would be going ballistic about Barber being a thug. I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.

Completely disagree about that being "thug". Yes, it was an intentional grab, but nothing thuggish.

-jk

[lotusland]

What was Allen thinking on that foul? I don't buy that he was just a second late in trying to make a legitimate stop. If the play had been reversed, this board would be going ballistic about Barber being a thug. I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.
it was an intentional foul to stop a break away but should not have been a flagrant. Those types of fouls are committed at the end of games to put the opponent on the line all the time and flagrant calls in those situations are very inconsistent. If you don't allow that, imo ,there will be more dangerous fouls from behind committed to pretend to make a more legit play on the ball.

[pfrduke]

it was an intentional foul to stop a break away but should not have been a flagrant. Those types of fouls are committed at the end of games to put the opponent on the line all the time and flagrant calls in those situations are very inconsistent. If you don't allow that, imo ,there will be more dangerous fouls from behind committed to pretend to make a more legit play on the ball.

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as an "intentional foul" in the NCAA anymore. Any foul that is not deemed to be a legitimate play on the ball is deemed a Flagrant 1, even if it's not flagrant in terms of excessive force, etc.

[-jk]

Why wasn't the shove in Luke's back as the game was expiring not a F1? He wasn't playing the ball...

-jk

[mkirsh]

Hard to beat a team 3 times in a season, so good win.

Presumably Marshall's nose is broken and he'll have to wear a mask - I'm hoping beyond hope for an old school hockey mask, ideally painted, for intimidation purposes (although I'm sure the NCAA has some lame rule somewhere prohibiting this sort of thing)

[gumbomoop]

Matt is struggling, not moving well at all. Although Derryck played just ok today, he's still a solid on-ball defender, and he needs to play well against Jackson tomorrow. Except for the rhythm dribble stuff, Marshall played wonderfully.


Luke also had great game. He did so many things on both defense and offense.

Except for his really, really dumb foul on Barber's corner 3, Luke is a smart defender. His lateral movement is pretty good, he looks for lazy passes to nick. I agree with Saratoga2 that Luke's always thinking and doing.

[Bob Green]

Marshall Plumlee's broken nose is a result of Friendly Fire. Matt Jones' elbow is the culprit.

[OZ]

What was Allen thinking on that foul? I don't buy that he was just a second late in trying to make a legitimate stop. If the play had been reversed, this board would be going ballistic about Barber being a thug. I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.


"being a thug?" A "thug?" Seriously?

I am going to stop here before I commit a flagrant foul II and get suspended.

[wsb3]

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as an "intentional foul" in the NCAA anymore. Any foul that is not deemed to be a legitimate play on the ball is deemed a Flagrant 1, even if it's not flagrant in terms of excessive force, etc.

I was actually hoping they did call it a Flagrant 1 because it clearly was intentional & I did not want to hear about it if it was not called.

[hsheffield]

most excited that the rebounding was fairly even: 34 State, 32 Duke

scoring was pretty balanced other than Matt Jones disappearing

Plumlee got a double double and was 7/9 from the free throw line!! (that nose is going to really hurt tomorrow)

Jeter again showing flashes of excellence (not to mention only 2 fouls in 8 minutes of play)

Luke driving a lot more these days and it's working. With GA's target on his back, we're probably going to need someone else to go inside!

surprising that Thornton only played 19 minutes and Luke played 35.


Plumlee was MOTM for sure, but I really wish he would consistently get a dish and dunk it-seems like it hardly ever ends well when he dribbles then tries to score

[tbyers11]

What was Allen thinking on that foul? I don't buy that he was just a second late in trying to make a legitimate stop. If the play had been reversed, this board would be going ballistic about Barber being a thug. I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.

He was trying to commit a foul on Barber to prevent a fast break. Happens all the time in the NBA. As we were not yet in the bonus, it simply would have been State ball OOB. However, Cat is very quick so Grayson was a half-second late from being in front or on the side at initial contact. If he hadn't grabbed the jersey, I still think it might have just been a common foul.

IMO, this was not a lack of judgement resulting in a borderline dirty play like the tripping incidents. I think it was a basketball play that was a very good idea but was poorly executed.

I didn't even realize there was a big hubbub about it as I watched the game on the ACC network with Gminski on the mike. Those announcers didn't make a big deal about it. They thought it was a basketball play and that it was a flagrant 1 (as pfrduke pointed out there is no intentional foul in college anymore) because he missed the ball and got a handful of jersey.

[dukelifer]

Plumlee again showing why seniors are so important. What toughness he showed and Duke does not win without him. His Duke career is coming to an end. He has had a great senior season. Just think about how much has he grown in 5 years. Amazing.

[Bob Green]

6076

[szstark]

"being a thug?" A "thug?" Seriously?

I am going to stop here before I commit a flagrant foul II and get suspended.

I didn't call Grayson a thug. I said I've seen this board call players from other schools thugs for seemingly less offensive plays. What I was trying to say is that I wasn't so sure his previous trips were really intentional fouls, but this foul was definitely intentional and now I think the earlier ones might not have been quite as innocent as I had thought. I love the kid, but I really don't know what he was thinking. It almost cost us the game.

[dyedwab]

I didn't even realize there was a big hubbub about it as I watched the game on the ACC network with Gminski on the mike. Those announcers didn't make a big deal about it. They thought it was a basketball play and that it was a flagrant 1 (as pfrduke pointed out there is no intentional foul in college anymore) because he missed the ball and got a handful of jersey.

I won't belabor this point now (it's for a post-season discussion), but precisely because you saw it not on ESPN. i'm not a conspiracy theorist generally, but ESPN has a thing about Grayson. That said, it was a dumb play and could have cost us the game.

Great win. Glad we got one. Wasn't sure this team had enough in the tank to even to do that. But Grayson, Luke, Brandon finally had good offensive games at the same time. That's fun to watch.

[cspan37421]

I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.

There was an out of bounds play near the end, near the NCSU bench, where NCSU had the ball and it looked like the ballhandler slipped a bit. My mind is foggy, can't remember if Barber had it. Anyway, on the replay, it looked like GA stuck a foot out again. Did not cause anything, but if it's what it looked like on the replay, he needs a talking to. This team cannot afford unnecessary fouls.

[FerryFor50]

I didn't call Grayson a thug. I said I've seen this board call players from other schools thugs for seemingly less offensive plays. What I was trying to say is that I wasn't so sure his previous trips were really intentional fouls, but this foul was definitely intentional and now I think the earlier ones might not have been quite as innocent as I had thought. I love the kid, but I really don't know what he was thinking. It almost cost us the game.

Hey, way to make a big deal out of a pretty innocuous foul. You must work for espn.

Intentional, yes. Dirty? Not even close.

[FerryFor50]

There was an out of bounds play near the end, near the NCSU bench, where NCSU had the ball and it looked like the ballhandler slipped a bit. My mind is foggy, can't remember if Barber had it. Anyway, on the replay, it looked like GA stuck a foot out again. Did not cause anything, but if it's what it looked like on the replay, he needs a talking to. This team cannot afford unnecessary fouls.

Ugh. He overplayed the ball to try to force a turnover. There was no trip.

[devildeac]

Marshall Plumlee's broken nose is a result of Friendly Fire. Matt Jones' elbow is the culprit.

Reprimand him!!!

[devildeac]

"being a thug?" A "thug?" Seriously?

I am going to stop here before I commit a flagrant foul II and get suspended.


I was actually hoping they did call it a Flagrant 1 because it clearly was intentional & I did not want to hear about it if it was not called.

Then why ~2 weeks ago when a player put an arm bar up from behind across GA's chest as he had a clear path to the hoop from just inside midcourt was that a common foul? And also, on another occasion a week or two ago when GA had a clear path from near mid court and the guy grabbed his shoulder from behind, why was that only a common foul? Probably almost any other player in any other game could grab an opponent as he goes by and it'd be a common foul.

Edit: And the WFU sub who grabbed his jersey from behind in the middle of the court near the end of the first half of that game at CIS with no call whatsoever? The word is consistency-call the game the game the same way both ends of the court.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Hey, way to make a big deal out of a pretty innocuous foul. You must work for espn.

Intentional, yes. Dirty? Not even close.

This is the entirety of my problem with the earlier plays. He has lost all benefit of the doubt with referees. Correctly or not, he has developed a reputation for dirty play. This is my biggest frustration with his continued marginal behavior. It puts Allen and Duke in a position where they could potentially lose the game on an overzealous judgement call.

It is bigger than two shots and the ball in 3 different games. It can potentially now lose a game and end our season. I don't care how greedy or tough you think that it is, it is a dumb basketball play now.

If you are blaming ESPN, you are missing the point.

[kmspeaks]

I was unable to watch the game because of work and reading this thread I thought Grayson had committed murder again....then I saw the video. Some of you need to turn off ESPN because all that hatred is seeping into your brain. No part of that play was dirty or thuggish. It wasn't even a dumb play. It was poorly executed but it was a good idea. If Grayson had been able to get his arm in front of Barber and make contact with his arms or chest he prevents a fast break and Duke gets to walk to the other end and set up the D. He was too slow and got caught grabbing from behind so it's a flagrant. That's a pretty normal basketball play in my book.

[J_C_Steel]

I got to take this one in live, and it was one helluva game. State was able to knock down a LOT of mid-range jumpers, many of which were not contested well. Duke was gritty down the stretch, but I wonder how much energy the team will have tomorrow against a fresh Notre Dame team.

Kudos to Marshall Plumlee for playing with a broken nose and scoring the winning basket.

[FerryFor50]

This is the entirety of my problem with the earlier plays. He has lost all benefit of the doubt with referees. Correctly or not, he has developed a reputation for dirty play. This is my biggest frustration with his continued marginal behavior. It puts Allen and Duke in a position where they could potentially lose the game on an overzealous judgement call.

It is bigger than two shots and the ball in 3 different games. It can potentially now lose a game and end our season. I don't care how greedy or tough you think that it is, it is a dumb basketball play now.

If you are blaming ESPN, you are missing the point.

Was espn playing the replay of the kid who tripped the ref over and over for weeks?

Did they harp on when Allen took an intentional elbow to the face vs L'ville.

Etc, etc.

ESPN is absolutely part of the problem.

[cspan37421]

Ugh. He overplayed the ball to try to force a turnover. There was no trip.

I know. I didn't say he tripped anyone. I said I saw his foot go out and thought "oh no." I'd like to see it again.

[dukelifer]

6076

There goes the male modeling career.

[uh_no]

Then why ~2 weeks ago when a player put an arm bar up from behind across GA's chest as he had a clear path to the hoop from just inside midcourt was that a common foul? And also, on another occasion a week or two ago when GA had a clear path from near mid court and the guy grabbed his shoulder from behind, why was that only a common foul? Probably almost any other player in any other game could grab an opponent as he goes by and it'd be a common foul.

The rulebook is extremely clear on this sort of play


c. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that
is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely
on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;

It should be noted there's a difference between "as he goes by" and "from behind"

I didn't see the play so can't comment.

[devildeac]

6076

Next game:

6077

[devildeac]

The rulebook is extremely clear on this sort of play



It should be noted there's a difference between "as he goes by" and "from behind"

I didn't see the play so can't comment.

Ok, somebody replay it. Did Cat have an unobstructed path to the basket? I don't recall that he did. I think the play took place about at our FT line or just outside it. My point still stands: Allen was fouled twice in the last couple weeks with no play on the ball and only a common foul was called. Same for the jersey grab by WFU as he went by the guy with a few seconds left in the half. Consistency.

[FerryFor50]

Ok, somebody replay it. Did Cat have an unobstructed path to the basket? I don't recall that he did. I think the play took place about at our FT line or just outside it. My point still stands: Allen was fouled twice in the last couple weeks with no play on the ball and only a common foul was called. Same for the jersey grab by WFU as he went by the guy with a few seconds left in the half. Consistency.

He didn't.

Luke was back.

Grayson *barely* grabbed Cat. Definitely a foul. Definitely intentional. Definitely not dirty. But espn sure fired up those tripping replays in a instant.

[chrishoke]

Look, for me the issue is using replay to determine if an intentional foul has occurred, including holding or jersey grabbing in the 1/2 court, just because a coach asked for it. The refs called nothing in the play of the game. Think of coach k asking for those replays to look at off the b all holding on jj.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Completely disagree about that being "thug". Yes, it was an intentional grab, but nothing thuggish.

-jk

I guess we are going to call teams for flagrant one's when they are fouling at the end of games now? Because it was equivalent to that.

[uh_no]

Ok, somebody replay it. Did Cat have an unobstructed path to the basket? I don't recall that he did. I think the play took place about at our FT line or just outside it. My point still stands: Allen was fouled twice in the last couple weeks with no play on the ball and only a common foul was called. Same for the jersey grab by WFU as he went by the guy with a few seconds left in the half. Consistency.

I believe that there was a clarification several years back that jersey grabbing and pulling is an automatic flagrant. Not having it listed in the rulebook gives some leeway for an incidental tug...sort of akin to "illegal hands to the face" vs "facemasking"

[chrishoke]

I believe that there was a clarification several years back that jersey grabbing and pulling is an automatic flagrant. Not having it listed in the rulebook gives some leeway for an incidental tug...sort of akin to "illegal hands to the face" vs "facemasking"

But now coaches can demand that such plays be subject to video review. Ridiculous.

[ChillinDuke]

This is the entirety of my problem with the earlier plays. He has lost all benefit of the doubt with referees. Correctly or not, he has developed a reputation for dirty play. This is my biggest frustration with his continued marginal behavior. It puts Allen and Duke in a position where they could potentially lose the game on an overzealous judgement call.

It is bigger than two shots and the ball in 3 different games. It can potentially now lose a game and end our season. I don't care how greedy or tough you think that it is, it is a dumb basketball play now.

If you are blaming ESPN, you are missing the point.

I fail to see how today's play is an example of "continued marginal behavior." It was an intentional foul but hardly a flagrant. Give me a break. This has become asinine. It wasn't even a clear path foul - Luke Kennard was considerably down court of Cat. Seriously, give me a break. (not you Mtn D, just blowing off some steam)

In context, the trip on the Louisville player was close. Really close, IMO. I think it was the right call, but it wasn't really all that dirty in the spectrum of dirty play. There's jumping into the stands and beating up fans, there's busting a guy's face in (which Louisville did in the next game), there's raking an elbow across a guy's nose on a rebound, there's a multitude of plausible scenarios that are far dirtier than what Grayson did against L'ville. Heck, I actually thought it was sorta heady. He was on the ground, flick a toe an inch or two higher, see if you can get away with it. He didn't. To accuse him of being dirty because of this singular act (which I termed "flicking a toe") neglects context.

The FSU trip, I won't defend. That was blatant.

But now this play against Cat? I mean come on. It was a foul. Holding. 2 shots. Next. Ridiculous that it was anything more.

In summary, and you're free to disagree (which I'm sure you will), Grayson made one poor play - against FSU. The L'Ville play was made out to be far worse than it really was and has since been fueled by the media which caught the general populace (easy to do when it's Duke). And this call against Cat is indefensible IMO as anything other than referees calling a game clouded by rhetoric and bias.

I agree that it has gotten to a point where it could cost us a game. But that doesn't mean it's fair - nor do I agree that Grayson's play was a "dumb basketball play." It was certainly a questionable play, but there are legitimate reasons for making that play. I won't defend those reasons, personally. But I won't call the play "dumb."

- Chillin

[FerryFor50]

I believe that there was a clarification several years back that jersey grabbing and pulling is an automatic flagrant. Not having it listed in the rulebook gives some leeway for an incidental tug...sort of akin to "illegal hands to the face" vs "facemasking"

So they will start calling jersey pulls on defenders that impede guys cutting around screeners a flagrant now?

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is the entirety of my problem with the earlier plays. He has lost all benefit of the doubt with referees. Correctly or not, he has developed a reputation for dirty play. This is my biggest frustration with his continued marginal behavior. It puts Allen and Duke in a position where they could potentially lose the game on an overzealous judgement call.

It is bigger than two shots and the ball in 3 different games. It can potentially now lose a game and end our season. I don't care how greedy or tough you think that it is, it is a dumb basketball play now.

If you are blaming ESPN, you are missing the point.

Yeah, GA - as long as he's in a Duke shirt - will never ever get the benefit of the doubt again. He just won't. It's something he and Duke will have to live with.

It's sad, because Grayson has so much passion and energy that is channeled into positive actions. That 1% of negative energy really costs him - and at times - the team.

Sure, ESPN magnified the problem, but Grayson's reputation is the primary result of his tripping actions.

[uh_no]

But now coaches can demand that such plays be subject to video review. Ridiculous.

coaches could always ask the refs to take a look at a play during a stoppage. The ref doesn't have to....but they don't really have a reason not to, since the rulebook allows them to review it.

In any case, people are getting fired up. Grayson put himself on thin ice, and he potentially paid a price for that today. He's going to be heavily scrutinized for the remainder of this season, and quite possibly into next season if he stays. He lost the benefit of the doubt on those sort of plays.

[cbarry]

Survive and advance! Nice win. I only watched parts on my phone at work (darn work!)...

Question on on the inbounds play at the end of the game. NC State had a spot throw in, but the inbounder appeared to take 2-3 steps. Not that it affected the outcome, but shouldn't that have been a traveling violation?

[uh_no]

So they will start calling jersey pulls on defenders that impede guys cutting around screeners a flagrant now?

i wish they would...but lets not be ridiculous. actions against (especially something like a jersey pull) the ball handler will always be more heavily scrutinized than off ball.

[egr88]

I finally got to see the last play. baseline inbound for NCSU after a missed FT by Kennard. State called TO. Isn't that supposed to be a spot throw-in? Looked like NCSU player ran to his left two or three steps. Isn't that a walk?

[KandG]

He was trying to commit a foul on Barber to prevent a fast break. Happens all the time in the NBA. As we were not yet in the bonus, it simply would have been State ball OOB. However, Cat is very quick so Grayson was a half-second late from being in front or on the side at initial contact. If he hadn't grabbed the jersey, I still think it might have just been a common foul.

IMO, this was not a lack of judgement resulting in a borderline dirty play like the tripping incidents. I think it was a basketball play that was a very good idea but was poorly executed.




This sums it up best. I'm not inclined, whatever my biases, to give any player a pass for questionable fouls or physicality, but ESPN showing the replays of Grayson's tripping incidents was a comically tabloid response after his simple (if botched) attempt to stop a dangerous opponent from breaking out in transition.

Now the shot Grayson took early in a possession from way way out with a 7 point lead was much more irksome. The team has had several frustrating losses this season, but IMO if we had blown this one, it would have been the worst. Such a horrible loss of composure trying to protect a lead...thank goodness for Marshall.

[FerryFor50]

i wish they would...but lets not be ridiculous. actions against (especially something like a jersey pull) the ball handler will always be more heavily scrutinized than off ball.

I just wish they'd use judgment on it. It was a pretty light pull on the jersey. With a defender back. No clear path.

Had it been a full pull that displaced Barber, then yea, flagrant.

[uh_no]

I finally got to see the last play. baseline inbound for NCSU after a missed FT by Kennard. State called TO. Isn't that supposed to be a spot throw-in? Looked like NCSU player ran to his left two or three steps. Isn't that a walk?

should be. you can only run the baseline after a made shot (or after a timeout after a made shot)

[cbarry]

I finally got to see the last play. baseline inbound for NCSU after a missed FT by Kennard. State called TO. Isn't that supposed to be a spot throw-in? Looked like NCSU player ran to his left two or three steps. Isn't that a walk?

Exactly my question. See post # 65. Great minds think alike!

[53n206]

But now coaches can demand that such plays be subject to video review. Ridiculous.
Absolutely agree with you. Cold you should have no input into reviews, and possibly review should be abandoned entirely. (Except to check clock times.)

[-jk]

I finally got to see the last play. baseline inbound for NCSU after a missed FT by Kennard. State called TO. Isn't that supposed to be a spot throw-in? Looked like NCSU player ran to his left two or three steps. Isn't that a walk?

It was close, but probably legit.


Rule 7, Sec 6, Throw-in — Requirements:

Art. 8. The following pertain to a designated spot:
a The designated spot is the location at which a thrower-in is presented disposal of the ball out of bounds as in 4-11.1.a through .c.
b. The designated spot shall be 3-feet wide with no depth limitation.
c. The thrower-in must keep one foot on or over the designated spot until the ball is released. Pivot foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in effect for a throw-in.
d. The thrower-in shall not leave the designated spot until he has released the ball and the thrown-in ball crosses the plane of the sideline or end line.

Queue wide stance jokes...

-jk

[Indoor66]

Absolutely agree with you. Cold you should have no input into reviews, and possibly review should be abandoned entirely. (Except to check clock times.)

The only time there should be a review is if the REF is not satisfied that the clock started or stopped appropriately. Everything else should be as seen and called by the refs on the court. The rest of this review crap is crap.

[Doria]

Hard to beat a team 3 times in a season, so good win.

Presumably Marshall's nose is broken and he'll have to wear a mask - I'm hoping beyond hope for an old school hockey mask, ideally painted, for intimidation purposes (although I'm sure the NCAA has some lame rule somewhere prohibiting this sort of thing)

I would be down for a Hannibal Lecter mask!

[elvis14]

I'm shocked at the response on here to Grayson's late foul on Cat. He barley touched the guy. In addition, his hand caught jersey and he immediately let go. He didn't pull the jersey at all. That should have been a simple holding call with NCSU getting the ball out of bounds. I'm not pissed at Grayson, I'm pissed at the officials for GIFTING NC State the shots and the ball. That was a ridiculously poor call. Thank goodness I figured out in the first half that I could turn off ESPN (i.e. Grayson-Hatin' Network) and tune into the local broadcast.

I just hope the treatment that GA is getting from the officials and from ESPN doesn't effect his NBA decision.

As for the game in general, I would have liked to see us play more defense. Ingram was fantastic. Marshall was incredible. DT played good defense on Cat. Lots of good things, especially the part where we won!

[Newton_14]

Was espn playing the replay of the kid who tripped the ref over and over for weeks?

Did they harp on when Allen took an intentional elbow to the face vs L'ville.

Etc, etc.

ESPN is absolutely part of the problem.

This is incredulous. Why on earth anyone is comparing the play today to either of the trips (or implying he stuck his foot out today to try someone when he absolutely did not) is just bizarre. There was nothing dirty, thuggish, borderline, marginal, or any other word about the play today. He was trying to foul intentionally to stop a fast break, which would have led to State ball out of bounds. That's it. Attempting to make a smart, heady play. Because he was a split second late, he ends up grabbing a handful of jersey forcing the ref to have to call it intentional/flagrant 1. That's it. He doesn't need a "talking to" for that play today, and nothing about that play today was comparable to the trips. It ended up being a bad play just like Kennard fouling Barber on the made 3 Pointer. Grayson's bad play "almost cost us the game" yet somehow Luke's didn't. You just can't make this stuff up.

As DD pointed out, nobody called the Wake kid a thug for tomahawking Grayson from behind with no play whatsoever on the ball, or for the designated henchman walkon Manning sent in to intentionally foul Grayson which he did by grabbing Grayson's jersey from behind and pulling him down... etc. No replays, no outrage. Just "part of the game".

As to the important stuff, like you know, our team playing well today, and getting the win... It was good to see shots falling again! My only worry early was we seemed to be relying on the 3 Ball exclusively vs driving it for looks at the rim. It all came together nicely though. I had to worry when Rowan hit the "I'm going to rise for the 3! oops its gonna get blocked, oh crap!!! double pump, then shoot wildly and it banks in for 3!. It's like, oh crap it's just their day. Like always though, our guys just get fighting, and started getting stops, which led to the 9 point lead. Then of course we proceed to give it all back. :)

Brandon, Grayson, and Luke were all really good offensively, but can't say enough about MP3. Broken nose? No worries. Put me back in Coach. 17-10 with the game winning basket and free throw with 1:02 left and the game on the line. Great job by the big fella!

Survive and Advance! On to Notre Dame!

Go Duke!

[FerryFor50]

This is incredulous. Why on earth anyone is comparing the play today to either of the trips (or implying he stuck his foot out today to try someone when he absolutely did not) is just bizarre. There was nothing dirty, thuggish, borderline, marginal, or any other word about the play today. He was trying to foul intentionally to stop a fast break, which would have led to State ball out of bounds. That's it. Attempting to make a smart, heady play. Because he was a split second late, he ends up grabbing a handful of jersey forcing the ref to have to call it intentional/flagrant 1. That's it. He doesn't need a "talking to" for that play today, and nothing about that play today was comparable to the trips. It ended up being a bad play just like Kennard fouling Barber on the made 3 Pointer. Grayson's bad play "almost cost us the game" yet somehow Luke's didn't. You just can't make this stuff up.

As DD pointed out, nobody called the Wake kid a thug for tomahawking Grayson from behind with no play whatsoever on the ball, or for the designated henchman walkon Manning sent in to intentionally foul Grayson which he did by grabbing Grayson's jersey from behind and pulling him down... etc. No replays, no outrage. Just "part of the game".

As to the important stuff, like you know, our team playing well today, and getting the win... It was good to see shots falling again! My only worry early was we seemed to be relying on the 3 Ball exclusively vs driving it for looks at the rim. It all came together nicely though. I had to worry when Rowan hit the "I'm going to rise for the 3! oops its gonna get blocked, oh crap!!! double pump, then shoot wildly and it banks in for 3!. It's like, oh crap it's just their day. Like always though, our guys just get fighting, and started getting stops, which led to the 9 point lead. Then of course we proceed to give it all back. :)

Brandon, Grayson, and Luke were all really good offensively, but can't say enough about MP3. Broken nose? No worries. Put me back in Coach. 17-10 with the game winning basket and free throw with 1:02 left and the game on the line. Great job by the big fella!

Survive and Advance! On to Notre Dame!

Go Duke!

They're comparing today to the trips because they're eating up the ESPN narrative.

It's ridiculous. And it's a bit unfair that Allen keeps getting shafted on this sort of stuff because he made some bad decisions earlier in the season. (and is paying for it in benefit of the doubt and lack of calls on drives)

I was sitting around some State fans watching the game, hearing them talk about how "dirty" Allen was after he grabbed the jersey. Then one said they wished someone would "smack the smirk off his face." Like, seriously?

It's been weeks since he's had any sort of incident. It's time for ESPN to let it go.

As for the game, great offense. Not so great defense. Somehow, NCSU shoots like world beaters against Duke, but not against other teams (even though their defenses aren't much better). For instance, Wake's kenpom defense is 138. Duke's is around 112.

State shoots 55% from the field, 45% from 3, 73% from the FT line against Duke.

They shot 42% from the field, 43.5% from 3, 65% from the FT line against Wake.

Even worse shooting against Notre Dame, who is 192 in Kenpom.

[Billy Dat]

I had to worry when Rowan hit the "I'm going to rise for the 3! oops its gonna get blocked, oh crap!!! double pump, then shoot wildly and it banks in for 3!. It's like, oh crap it's just their day. Like always though, our guys just get fighting, and started getting stops, which led to the 9 point lead. Then of course we proceed to give it all back. :)

Aside from MP3 making the big AND1 in the final minute, I thought the next biggest shot was Grayson immediately answering that Rowan double clutch bank shot prayer with a 3 of his own to push the lead back to 4. That was reminiscent, under less trying and important circumstances, to the Hurley 3 against Vegas in 91.

We had a lot of chances to salt that game away around the 7 minute mark, including seven consecutive empty possessions where we couldn't push the lead past 6, but it was nice to see the ball go through the hoop.

[gam7]

Everyone played great except for Matt. Hasn't looked right since the injury

Yes, at one point in the second half, Matt had to sprint full court from the offensive to the defensive end, and he definitely had a hitch in his giddy-up.

[Acymetric]

I'm shocked at the response on here to Grayson's late foul on Cat. He barley touched the guy. In addition, his hand caught jersey and he immediately let go. He didn't pull the jersey at all. That should have been a simple holding call with NCSU getting the ball out of bounds. I'm not pissed at Grayson, I'm pissed at the officials for GIFTING NC State the shots and the ball. That was a ridiculously poor call. Thank goodness I figured out in the first half that I could turn off ESPN (i.e. Grayson-Hatin' Network) and tune into the local broadcast.

I just hope the treatment that GA is getting from the officials and from ESPN doesn't effect his NBA decision.

As for the game in general, I would have liked to see us play more defense. Ingram was fantastic. Marshall was incredible. DT played good defense on Cat. Lots of good things, especially the part where we won!
(Emphasis mine)

I do not get why people on both sides of this argument are using terms like "grabbed a handful of jersey" to describe what happened. He basically touched his back with his hand and it slid off, there was no grabbing at all.

[devildeac]

PlumJeter w/22 points and 13 boards today to go with 4 blocks, 2 TO, 2 PF and a steal in 40 minutes, combined, of course. Damned impressive. Well done big guys.

[wavedukefan70s]

Taped it and just finished watching. Plumlee wow.jones looks like he cant push off on his feet.hes still giving it all though.we can win the fist two.

[duke4life32182]

I love GA and the passion he plays with. If you watch the replay he is lucky Barber missed his extended right leg because it looked like he extended his right leg as he was going by. That would have been a third trip. Just got to settle down. Still love him n his play though

[dhillbluedevil]

A typical conference tourney game between 2 familiar rivals - what a warrior Marshall Plumlee has become - maybe one of my favorite all-time players just from seeing the pictures of his nose!

[cspan37421]

Next game:

6077

There is precendent:

6078

[BandAlum83]

It was close, but probably legit.



Queue wide stance jokes...

-jk


Hmmmm....3 ft wide, not 3 feet on either side.

[devildeac]

There is precendent:

6078

Well, Mason rhymes with Jason...

[fraggler]

Well, Mason rhymes with Jason...

Wait, Mason broke his nose, too?!?!

[BandAlum83]

I love GA and the passion he plays with. If you watch the replay he is lucky Barber missed his extended right leg because it looked like he extended his right leg as he was going by. That would have been a third trip. Just got to settle down. Still love him n his play though

What play are you talking about???? What was the time on the clock?

[Newton_14]

Wait, Mason broke his nose, too?!?!

Yes. When Grayson tried to trip Barber today (on two different occasions apparently)... he missed and inadvertently tripped MP2 even though he was not in the building, breaking MP2's nose in the process. The refs then called a Flagrant 2 on Daniel Ewing.

[devildeac]

Wait, Mason broke his nose, too?!?!

Yea, it was a stretch. Brothers and all that stuff.:rolleyes:

[DrChainsaw]

I would be down for a Hannibal Lecter mask!

How about a Hansblahblah mask? Not only scary, but remarkably apropos....

[Sluggo]

Anyone have any thoughts on how coach decides whether Derryck or Luke will start the game? Is it based on matchups or previous game performance or maybe something that happens in practice that we are not aware of. I like Luke a lot but I remember the last time we played NCSU, that Derryck did a heck of a job defending the Cat, especially in the first half so I was a little surprised to see Luke get the start today.

[sagegrouse]

Anyone have any thoughts on how coach decides whether Derek or Luke will start the game? Is it based on matchups or previous game performance or maybe something that happens in practice that we are not aware of. I like Luke a lot but I remember the last time we played NCSU, that Derek did a heck of a job defending the Cat, especially in the first half so I was a little surprised to see Luke get the start today.

I dunno, but Matt Jones was guarding Cat Barber. In the previous game Derryck had done a great for a half but, understandably, seemed to tire. I'm comfortable with either one tomorrow, but I just wanna know who will be guarding Bonzie Colson.

[jv001]

Yes. When Grayson tried to trip Barber today (on two different occasions apparently)... he missed and inadvertently tripped MP2 even though he was not in the building, breaking MP2's nose in the process. The refs then called a Flagrant 2 on Daniel Ewing.

I don't think I've ever seen so many negative comments about one of our own players since I've been on this board and it's usually the Duke fans that idolize Luke. They seem to think Luke can do no harm and Grayson is just ok but he almost cost us the game. Well without his efforts in the 2nd half, we don't have a chance. He hit a big 3 at a point where we could have folded. He played good defense and had 19 points, 6 assists and only 2 turnovers. You would think he's the 2nd coming of Hitler and this is on a Duke site. Next play and beat ND. We owe them one. GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

I don't think I've ever seen so many negative comments about one of our own players since I've been on this board and it's usually the Duke fans that idolize Luke. They seem to think Luke can do no harm and Grayson is just ok but he almost cost us the game. Well without his efforts in the 2nd half, we don't have a chance. He hit a big 3 at a point where we could have folded. He played good defense and had 19 points, 6 assists and only 2 turnovers. You would think he's the 2nd coming of Hitler and this is on a Duke site. Next play and beat ND. We owe them one. GoDuke!

I agree. Grayson, based on the current trend of close-up examination, is destined to have his entire honeymoon on slo-mo.

[uh_no]

Anyone have any thoughts on how coach decides whether Derryck or Luke will start the game? Is it based on matchups or previous game performance or maybe something that happens in practice that we are not aware of. I like Luke a lot but I remember the last time we played NCSU, that Derryck did a heck of a job defending the Cat, especially in the first half so I was a little surprised to see Luke get the start today.

derryck did not have a particularly good game against UNC. He took a few ill advised 18 footers (he doesn't really have that shot yet), and got abused on high ball screens.

Luke might not be as good 1v1 on D, but certainly plays team defense at least as well as derryck. And so far, he's been far more capable on the offensive end...and that's hardly arguable at this point, being the #44 composite offensive rated player in the country (KP).

Derryck is not a slouch, by any means, but luke is playing better right now, and unless derryck is bringing something significant that luke is not on the defensive end, Luke will probably get the minutes for now.

[FerryFor50]

derryck did not have a particularly good game against UNC. He took a few ill advised 18 footers (he doesn't really have that shot yet), and got abused on high ball screens.

Luke might not be as good 1v1 on D, but certainly plays team defense at least as well as derryck. And so far, he's been far more capable on the offensive end...and that's hardly arguable at this point, being the #44 composite offensive rated player in the country (KP).

Derryck is not a slouch, by any means, but luke is playing better right now, and unless derryck is bringing something significant that luke is not on the defensive end, Luke will probably get the minutes for now.

But I think today, DT did a pretty good job on Cat when he was matched up one on one. Kennard had a pretty favorable defensive matchup with Rowan, who is pretty terrible at putting the ball on the floor.

DT could have been useful for a few more minutes, perhaps at the expense of Matt Jones, who didn't look great today. Doesn't seem to be moving well.

[uh_no]

But I think today, DT did a pretty good job on Cat when he was matched up one on one. Kennard had a pretty favorable defensive matchup with Rowan, who is pretty terrible at putting the ball on the floor.

DT could have been useful for a few more minutes, perhaps at the expense of Matt Jones, who didn't look great today. Doesn't seem to be moving well.

yeah. I'll agree with that.

As an aside, it's amazing what this team has been able to accomplish given the roadblocks. a critical piece going out, matt's not moving well, massive inexperience....sad they won't have another year to grow together.

[Channing]

I am looking forward to seeing DT on Jackson. Slow him down and I think we are in great shape.

[DUKIE V(A)]

PlumJeter w/22 points and 13 boards today to go with 4 blocks, 2 TO, 2 PF and a steal in 40 minutes, combined, of course. Damned impressive. Well done big guys.

Indeed! Jeter gave Duke great minutes this afternoon. He is playing better and better.

[killerleft]

After seeing the Grayson incident this evening (I only had a smartphone view at work today) on WatchESPN, I can only say that the refs made a gross miscalculation of justice with their mamby-pamby, yellow-bellied so-called flagrant-1 foul call. And you Duke fans that agree with them? ESPN has you under it's anti-Duke spell, I guess. What a world, what a world. Duke fans sucking down ESPN drivel out of a light-blue straw. There should have been a common foul called and then the continuation of a fine basketball game.

You don't have to be a Duke fan to see that Grayson's foul was no more egregious than any other common foul that was done intentionally. It happens quite often every game, especially on the offensive end to stop what the defensive player thinks will be a lay-up. We go "whew!" when the ref calls the foul before the shot if our guy commits the foul, and "wanker" when it costs our team an "and-one". Players grab arms, hips, or shoulders to stop the clock, and it isn't called flagrant-1, no matter if the defender has any chance of reaching the ball. Barber, the ex-State player, was not ahead of the herd. He just got fouled.

The refs are supposed to be passionless ruleskeepers. That they ended up calling a flagrant-1 on Grayson reflects badly upon them. They acted as if they were in on some 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink' action with the ESPN Controversy Patrol.

Sincerely,
Dash King

[JPtheGame]

In context, the trip on the Louisville player was close. Really close, IMO. I think it was the right call, but it wasn't really all that dirty in the spectrum of dirty play. There's jumping into the stands and beating up fans, there's busting a guy's face in (which Louisville did in the next game), there's raking an elbow across a guy's nose on a rebound, there's a multitude of plausible scenarios that are far dirtier than what Grayson did against L'ville. Heck, I actually thought it was sorta heady. He was on the ground, flick a toe an inch or two higher, see if you can get away with it. He didn't. To accuse him of being dirty because of this singular act (which I termed "flicking a toe") neglects context.

The FSU trip, I won't defend. That was blatant.



The context in the FSU game is important too. Adam Rowe had a sequence up on his twitter showing some of XRM's behavior in the four minutes prior to that trip. He was all hands, shoving, in players ears, in players faces. At one point he was literally forehead to forehead with Derryck until derryck had to shove him away. Now this doesnt excuse Grayson but if that earlier stuff is addressed, I doubt Grayson is even in that position. Its also interesting to note that a similar thing happened in the Louisville game as trey lewis finished at the rim and then immediately turned, ran to grayson and pressed his forehead against grayson's. If the officials manage the game early, they dont have these kinds of issues late.

[kAzE]

But I think today, DT did a pretty good job on Cat when he was matched up one on one. Kennard had a pretty favorable defensive matchup with Rowan, who is pretty terrible at putting the ball on the floor.

DT could have been useful for a few more minutes, perhaps at the expense of Matt Jones, who didn't look great today. Doesn't seem to be moving well.

Luke and Derryck on the floor at the same time looked pretty good to me. I think they look able to hold their own defensively and both are quite adept at taking care of the ball on offense. There was one fast break today where they showed some nice chemistry as well. Luke is becoming a really good finisher in the paint. He does it with finesse rather than go the Grayson route of brute strength, and he's actually had much better success than Grayson inside in the paint the last few games.

Completely agree about Matt. He just doesn't look like his usual self. He fell down at least twice just trying to get into defensive position, and there was one long pass into the back court that I thought he could have easily stolen if he had gone up for the ball. I think he was hesitant to jump as high as he could for fear of landing awkwardly on his ankle with Kat Barber nearby. As long as Matt is in this state, I wonder if will continue to give up a few more minutes to the freshmen duo. He doesn't seem to have the quickness to be a threat at all offensively right now.

[DukieInKansas]

Announcers were totally obnoxious over a nothing play. It was a foul and was correctly called and they pretty much turned it into mass murder. Doris Burke was excruciatingly annoying about it. Nice of them also to counsel Grayson to embrace the hate, a great portion of which they are fomenting. And how convenient to have the tripping video all teed up and available as soon as they wanted it. Jackasses. Jackass network.

The passing in the last few seconds prior to Kennard getting fouled was great. Reminds me of a game like 25 years ago at Clemson ending in similar circumstances. Danny Ferry and team mates moved the ball all over the court and Clemson couldn't find anyone to foul. I remember it because of Dan Bonner hollering "GREAT PASSING!".

And it was about the only foul all game that they even mentioned who was the fouler. They didn't seem to mention it often and I couldn't hear the stadium announcer.

[DukieInKansas]

Yes. When Grayson tried to trip Barber today (on two different occasions apparently)... he missed and inadvertently tripped MP2 even though he was not in the building, breaking MP2's nose in the process. The refs then called a Flagrant 2 on Daniel Ewing.

And Daniel Ewing got the T.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree that it has gotten to a point where it could cost us a game. But that doesn't mean it's fair - nor do I agree that Grayson's play was a "dumb basketball play." It was certainly a questionable play, but there are legitimate reasons for making that play. I won't defend those reasons, personally. But I won't call the play "dumb."

- Chillin

Well, then we 98% agree. I am not saying that GA is a dirty player. What I am saying - and said after the FSU game - is that he has developed the reputation of being a dirty player and will have the rest of his season under a microscope.

The FSU trip came so soon after the Louisvilly trip and was intentional enough to result in apologies from K and Allen, and action from the ACC. If you want to maintain that it was inadvertant and somehow believe K would apologize for a nonintentional action then your glasses are tinted too dark to see straight.

On that thread, I said that regardless of intent, Allen had now put himself in a position to lose the benefit of the doubt and potentially have intention question on legit plays that could cost us the game.

Which is precisely what nearly happened yesterday afternoon.

To pretend that these things happen in a vacuum and that refs won't take a player's history into account when making judgment calls is just ridiculous. To place ALL blame on ESPN's bias is to ignore the facts of the FSU game.

Is Grayson getting an unfair amount of attention? Yes. Is it all his fault? No. Is it something he could have avoided? Almost certainly.

I really hope this is the last time a judgment referee call regarding Allen is a storyline this season, but somehow I doubt it.

Let's Go Duke! I want one more shot at the Heels.

[devildeac]

Well, then we 98% agree. I am not saying that GA is a dirty player. What I am saying - and said after the FSU game - is that he has developed the reputation of being a dirty player and will have the rest of his season under a microscope.

The FSU trip came so soon after the Louisvilly trip and was intentional enough to result in apologies from K and Allen, and action from the ACC. If you want to maintain that it was inadvertant and somehow believe K would apologize for a nonintentional action then your glasses are tinted too dark to see straight.

On that thread, I said that regardless of intent, Allen had now put himself in a position to lose the benefit of the doubt and potentially have intention question on legit plays that could cost us the game.

Which is precisely what nearly happened yesterday afternoon.

To pretend that these things happen in a vacuum and that refs won't take a player's history into account when making judgment calls is just ridiculous. To place ALL blame on ESPN's bias is to ignore the facts of the FSU game.

Is Grayson getting an unfair amount of attention? Yes. Is it all his fault? No. Is it something he could have avoided? Almost certainly.

I really hope this is the last time a judgment referee call regarding Allen is a storyline this season, but somehow I doubt it.

Let's Go Duke! I want one more shot at the Heels.

I'm going to be working this afternoon and won't be able to watch the game but I hope you'll watch GA closely as much as you can and report back to DBR how many F1s are called against ND today, in addition to common fouls, if they happen to grab his jersey on any occasions today, say when he's driving to the basket or running around screens.

The word is consistency, or, if you want to include this year's rule changes or points of emphasis also, freedom of movement. Don't make up (or ignore existing) special rules/interpretations for one player.

[oldnavy]

If you have any doubt about ESPN's pushing the narrative about Grayson being a dirty player, just take out a stop watch and time how long it took for the tripping replays to pop up on the screen after Grayson fouled Cat...

They were going to show those replays regardless if Grayson did anything or not, they just got very lucky that he fouled Cat and they could seq way the clips in. Otherwise, they would have had to find another way to discuss his "dirty" play, but don't think for a minute that they were not going to NOT bring it up...

If you want to win a bet today, bet someone that the announcers will show video and discuss Grayson's behavior (that include all three of his horrific atrocities) in today's game against ND, that is if you can find someone who is willing to take that bet.

Yes Grayson has brought this on himself, because he actually did trip those players so he has to be held accountable, I get it. The issue I have is with incredibly skewed, utterly biased, muck raking journalism that is making Grayson out to be the next Bill Laimbeer.

Also, while I'm ranting, take a note of how many replays they show of "questionable" calls that go for Duke, as compared to those that go against Duke. Thank goodness for the DVR, so I can go back and look at the replays myself.

And another thing, how "outraged" would the BB universe have been had the roles been reversed in the TO farce, when the ref in front of NCSU's bench awarded Gottfried the TO on the "held ball"?? It would have broken the internet, but I don't think that the announcers even made mention of the fact that the ref totally blew the call in favor of NCSU. Much less the fact that Maverick (love that name) was flopping around on his back like a fish, rolling left and right... which I have always thought was a traveling call, but I suppose the proper call would have been held ball, ANYTHING other than a bench TO!

That could have cost us the game, but hardly a mention of the fact that the State bench was awarded an illegal TO.

[jv001]

If you have any doubt about ESPN's pushing the narrative about Grayson being a dirty player, just take out a stop watch and time how long it took for the tripping replays to pop up on the screen after Grayson fouled Cat...

They were going to show those replays regardless if Grayson did anything or not, they just got very lucky that he fouled Cat and they could seq way the clips in. Otherwise, they would have had to find another way to discuss his "dirty" play, but don't think for a minute that they were not going to NOT bring it up...

If you want to win a bet today, bet someone that the announcers will show video and discuss Grayson's behavior (that include all three of his horrific atrocities) in today's game against ND, that is if you can find someone who is willing to take that bet.

Yes Grayson has brought this on himself, because he actually did trip those players so he has to be held accountable, I get it. The issue I have is with incredibly skewed, utterly biased, muck raking journalism that is making Grayson out to be the next Bill Laimbeer.

Also, while I'm ranting, take a note of how many replays they show of "questionable" calls that go for Duke, as compared to those that go against Duke. Thank goodness for the DVR, so I can go back and look at the replays myself.

And another thing, how "outraged" would the BB universe have been had the roles been reversed in the TO farce, when the ref in front of NCSU's bench awarded Gottfried the TO on the "held ball"?? It would have broken the internet, but I don't think that the announcers even made mention of the fact that the ref totally blew the call in favor of NCSU. Much less the fact that Maverick (love that name) was flopping around on his back like a fish, rolling left and right... which I have always thought was a traveling call, but I suppose the proper call would have been held ball, ANYTHING other than a bench TO! That could have cost us the game, but hardly a mention of the fact that the State bench was awarded an illegal TO.

Then you throw in the out of bounds play where the State player ran the baseline to get the throw in. If that had been Duke on the wrong side of the no call, all we would have heard is Duke get's all the calls. I hate ESPN almost as bad as I do the cheaters. GoDuke!

[elvis14]

Then you throw in the out of bounds play where the State player ran the baseline to get the throw in. If that had been Duke on the wrong side of the no call, all we would have heard is Duke get's all the calls. I hate ESPN almost as bad as I do the cheaters. GoDuke!

The thing is that ESPN and the Cheaters are one in the same. ESPN is full of UNCheat grads from the top down. Why do you think Duke games get edited they way that they are?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If you have any doubt about ESPN's pushing the narrative about Grayson being a dirty player, just take out a stop watch and time how long it took for the tripping replays to pop up on the screen after Grayson fouled Cat...

They were going to show those replays regardless if Grayson did anything or not, they just got very lucky that he fouled Cat and they could seq way the clips in. Otherwise, they would have had to find another way to discuss his "dirty" play, but don't think for a minute that they were not going to NOT bring it up...

If you want to win a bet today, bet someone that the announcers will show video and discuss Grayson's behavior (that include all three of his horrific atrocities) in today's game against ND, that is if you can find someone who is willing to take that bet.

Yes Grayson has brought this on himself, because he actually did trip those players so he has to be held accountable, I get it. The issue I have is with incredibly skewed, utterly biased, muck raking journalism that is making Grayson out to be the next Bill Laimbeer.

Also, while I'm ranting, take a note of how many replays they show of "questionable" calls that go for Duke, as compared to those that go against Duke. Thank goodness for the DVR, so I can go back and look at the replays myself.

And another thing, how "outraged" would the BB universe have been had the roles been reversed in the TO farce, when the ref in front of NCSU's bench awarded Gottfried the TO on the "held ball"?? It would have broken the internet, but I don't think that the announcers even made mention of the fact that the ref totally blew the call in favor of NCSU. Much less the fact that Maverick (love that name) was flopping around on his back like a fish, rolling left and right... which I have always thought was a traveling call, but I suppose the proper call would have been held ball, ANYTHING other than a bench TO!

That could have cost us the game, but hardly a mention of the fact that the State bench was awarded an illegal TO.

I guess this is what the biggest difference between myself and the other posters on this board boils down to:

I really don't care what ESPN says. I don't care about their commentators, I don't care about their headlines, Tweets or agendas. I don't care if they whine about Duke getting all the calls or if they say Duke players are dirty. It's nothing I haven't been hearing from other basketball fans for over thirty years. Sure, they have a bigger mouthpiece. Sure, they have an audience. Sure, they ought to be subjective. But, at the end of the day, they can say whatever they want to, and if Duke wins, Duke wins. Duke winning just makes them say it louder.

If you want to argue over what ESPN should/ought to say, that's fine. It's completely not a conversation I have any interest in.

So, if we can set aside for a moment whatever narrative ESPN might have and start worrying only about the action on the floor, it becomes much more simple. Grayson Allen can't grab someone's jersey and think there's not a good chance it will result in a flagrant one. A flagrant one is a bad outcome of a fast break in a close game near the end.

That's it. He has to be smarter than that to be a leader of this Duke team. He needs to not make mental mistakes that jeopardize the outcome of the game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm going to be working this afternoon and won't be able to watch the game but I hope you'll watch GA closely as much as you can and report back to DBR how many F1s are called against ND today, in addition to common fouls, if they happen to grab his jersey on any occasions today, say when he's driving to the basket or running around screens.

The word is consistency, or, if you want to include this year's rule changes or points of emphasis also, freedom of movement. Don't make up (or ignore existing) special rules/interpretations for one player.

Well, as far as "consistency" goes, refs are "consistently" paying very close attention to Allen on defense, so he'd be wise to not draw additional scrutiny by grabbing someone's jersey.

Isn't there some sort of conventional wisdom that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes? There's a proper time for dissecting the referees and their proclivities and prejudices, but that time isn't in the middle of a game with the outcome on the line. Suck it up and play bigger than the refs. Get the win.

[jv001]

Well, as far as "consistency" goes, refs are "consistently" paying very close attention to Allen on defense, so he'd be wise to not draw additional scrutiny by grabbing someone's jersey.

Isn't there some sort of conventional wisdom that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes? There's a proper time for dissecting the referees and their proclivities and prejudices, but that time isn't in the middle of a game with the outcome on the line. Suck it up and play bigger than the refs. Get the win.

I agree with part of what you're saying but I don't see that Grayson made a stupid play by grabbing Cat's jersey. Sure it turned out to be a bad play and it could have led to a loss. I've seen many players grab a guy to stop a fast break. I know that the officials are looking closely at every play Grayson is involved in, but what I don't get is the missed calls where Grayson is the one being fouled. You never hear of that from ESPN, nor do you hear them say that another player made a "dirty play". Especially if it's against Grayson. Last night I was discussing this same thing regarding Grayson and I asked him if he had heard more about Tripping Grayson or more about the uncheat academic fraud on ESPN. Of course he had heard more about Grayon's tripping players. I wonder if one reason the refs are not calling more fouls when Duke players drive the lane comes from Coach K's comments that part of Duke's game is getting to the free throw line. I wonder if the refs go into the game with a negative mind set on making the calls. Just a thought. GoDuke!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree with part of what you're saying but I don't see that Grayson made a stupid play by grabbing Cat's jersey. Sure it turned out to be a bad play and it could have led to a loss. I've seen many players grab a guy to stop a fast break. I know that the officials are looking closely at every play Grayson is involved in, but what I don't get is the missed calls where Grayson is the one being fouled. You never hear of that from ESPN, nor do you hear them say that another player made a "dirty play". Especially if it's against Grayson. Last night I was discussing this same thing regarding Grayson and I asked him if he had heard more about Tripping Grayson or more about the uncheat academic fraud on ESPN. Of course he had heard more about Grayon's tripping players. I wonder if one reason the refs are not calling more fouls when Duke players drive the lane comes from Coach K's comments that part of Duke's game is getting to the free throw line. I wonder if the refs go into the game with a negative mind set on making the calls. Just a thought. GoDuke!

Having done a very small amount of low-level refereeing, it's almost certain that referees are likely to keep a close eye on particular reputations. And yes, players sometimes grab a jersey, but it is also a textbook Flagrant 1.

[weezie]

...I wonder if one reason the refs are not calling more fouls when Duke players drive the lane comes from Coach K's comments that part of Duke's game is getting to the free throw line. I wonder if the refs go into the game with a negative mind set on making the calls...

With every respect to Mtn.Devil, who knows more about basketball, Coach K or the stripes? Part of any team's game should be free throws attempted and made. It's been a highly controversial season across the country in every conference as a result of the new rules. The NCAA loves shifting the blame to the coaches complaining and espn just loves "eyes on".

[devildeac]

Having done a very small amount of low-level refereeing, it's almost certain that referees are likely to keep a close eye on particular reputations. And yes, players sometimes grab a jersey, but it is also a textbook Flagrant 1.

Again, let me know how many F1s we shot this year when GA had his jersey grabbed going to the rim and/or going around screens. If it's a textbook call, then the call applies for both ends of the court (and a WFU walk-on), not just for Grayson. You can also remind me how many F1s were called in D1 MBB this year for jersey grabbing.

Consistency.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

With every respect to Mtn.Devil, who knows more about basketball, Coach K or the stripes? Part of any team's game should be free throws attempted and made. It's been a highly controversial season across the country in every conference as a result of the new rules. The NCAA loves shifting the blame to the coaches complaining and espn just loves "eyes on".

With every respect to weezie... I think you understood the question better than I did. I didn't read it as a direct follow from the previous line and thought it was another comment about Grayson.

I'm ready to concentrate on Notre Dame and move forward. Hope Grayson calls are not the focus of the next post-game thread!

[Saratoga2]

Anyone have any thoughts on how coach decides whether Derryck or Luke will start the game? Is it based on matchups or previous game performance or maybe something that happens in practice that we are not aware of. I like Luke a lot but I remember the last time we played NCSU, that Derryck did a heck of a job defending the Cat, especially in the first half so I was a little surprised to see Luke get the start today.

The way Luke is playing he should have started. The real question is whether Derryck should have started instead of Matt. Matt does look slowed with his ankle issues, while Derryck was much quicker and offered some offensive capability. We need both of course but as far as starters, Derryck made more sense to me. That is not what happened and Cat got off to a good start. In fact we switched people guarding Cat throughout the game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Again, let me know how many F1s we shot this year when GA had his jersey grabbed going to the rim and/or going around screens. If it's a textbook call, then the call applies for both ends of the court (and a WFU walk-on), not just for Grayson. You can also remind me how many F1s were called in D1 MBB this year for jersey grabbing.

Consistency.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I acknowledge that jersey grabs happen, but when Grayson grabs a player streaking down the court, it's going to be scrutinized and our team can't be surprised.

If NCSU had grabbed Allen coming off a rebound as he was taking off with Duke down a couple of points late, everyone on this board would have been upset if there wasn't an F1 called. Allen surely isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt.

[Kfanarmy]

What was Allen thinking on that foul? I don't buy that he was just a second late in trying to make a legitimate stop. If the play had been reversed, this board would be going ballistic about Barber being a thug. I've been giving Grayson the benefit of the doubt about the recent tripping fouls. Now I'm not so sure.

That was not that bad a foul...happens all the time. It wasn't dirty, it was simply bone headed, heat of the moment foul that ultimately prevented an impact dunk that could have created momentum.

[duke blue brewcrew]

I'm a little late to the party, and didn't see a MOTM vote for yesterday's game, but clearly it belongs to Lt. MP3! He manned up in a big way yesterday, tip of the cap to you sir!

[RepoMan]

isn't known as a serial nut grabber: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/03/10/chris-paul-got-open-by-hitting-kevin-durant-in-a-sensitive-area/

[BeachBlueDevil]

Solid win yesterday, but a couple things stand out.

Defense, where was it? They play defense like that today, ND will blow them out like last year. Which may not be a bad thing, it lit a fire under them last year and an exit would provide a long rest period.

- What is Allen thinking? The clear path foul was terrible! If Barber made both free throws, it would have been a different game. The the foul proceeding wasn't smart either, but Allen was trying to make a play.

- Allen's not stalling and letting the clock run down at the end of the game and taking a so/so shot. Let 5 more seconds tick off before you take that shot or at least drive it and try to draw a foul.

[Troublemaker]

Anyone have any thoughts on how coach decides whether Derryck or Luke will start the game? Is it based on matchups or previous game performance or maybe something that happens in practice that we are not aware of. I like Luke a lot but I remember the last time we played NCSU, that Derryck did a heck of a job defending the Cat, especially in the first half so I was a little surprised to see Luke get the start today.

I think if Luke continues playing well, he'll start the rest of the season. Coach has mentioned in postgame pressers throughout the season that (and I'm paraphrasing here) he'd like to see Luke develop to the point where he can be part of a Big 3 in scoring alongside Grayson and Brandon. Luke has that type of scoring talent. So, I think Luke starting yesterday wasn't based on matchups or anything; it was just time to see if plans can come to fruition. Especially since Duke had been struggling on offense recently. If Luke plays consistently from here on out, he's a needed shot in the arm for Duke and raises our "ceiling."

But moving Luke into a 30-35 mpg starter's role does throw the rest of the guard rotation into flux. Coach has to figure out the proper minutes and roles for Matt and Derryck, with Matt's health possibly playing a factor. For example, with Matt, I don't think he's a very good PG defender; where he really excels is wing defense. So, in today's game against Notre Dame, I would put Grayson on Demetrius Jackson and have Matt shut down Vasturia, if Matt is healthy enough to do so. If Matt's not healthy or if Derryck is having a game where his offense is under control, then it makes sense for Derryck to play more minutes and be the primary PG defender, shifting Grayson back to the wing. That's how I'm weighing things out in my head, at least.

[devilsadvocate85]

If you have any doubt about ESPN's pushing the narrative about Grayson being a dirty player, just take out a stop watch and time how long it took for the tripping replays to pop up on the screen after Grayson fouled Cat...

They were going to show those replays regardless if Grayson did anything or not, they just got very lucky that he fouled Cat and they could seq way the clips in. Otherwise, they would have had to find another way to discuss his "dirty" play, but don't think for a minute that they were not going to NOT bring it up...

If you want to win a bet today, bet someone that the announcers will show video and discuss Grayson's behavior (that include all three of his horrific atrocities) in today's game against ND, that is if you can find someone who is willing to take that bet.

Yes Grayson has brought this on himself, because he actually did trip those players so he has to be held accountable, I get it. The issue I have is with incredibly skewed, utterly biased, muck raking journalism that is making Grayson out to be the next Bill Laimbeer.

Also, while I'm ranting, take a note of how many replays they show of "questionable" calls that go for Duke, as compared to those that go against Duke. Thank goodness for the DVR, so I can go back and look at the replays myself.

And another thing, how "outraged" would the BB universe have been had the roles been reversed in the TO farce, when the ref in front of NCSU's bench awarded Gottfried the TO on the "held ball"?? It would have broken the internet, but I don't think that the announcers even made mention of the fact that the ref totally blew the call in favor of NCSU. Much less the fact that Maverick (love that name) was flopping around on his back like a fish, rolling left and right... which I have always thought was a traveling call, but I suppose the proper call would have been held ball, ANYTHING other than a bench TO!

That could have cost us the game, but hardly a mention of the fact that the State bench was awarded an illegal TO.


I thought the same about the timeout yesterday, but went back quickly during the break and whichever of the Martin twins that was near the bench and the official actually signaled for a TO.


Where were all of the media heads screaming for a suspension when Grayson was deliberately elbowed in the face? (Louisville player admitted this when he stated that he thought Grayson had hit him and was retaliating.)


As for the FSU situation, I'm still waiting for anyone to question what XRM was doing in that situation, (game is effectively over, 15 point lead, less than 15 seconds remaining, shot clock off, Duke holding the ball to run out the clock, Grayson Allen casually strolling toward our ball handler, Duke clearly not doing anything to try to score, etc...XRM grabbing and poking at Grayson from behind, then taking off toward FSU's basket). I have watched hundreds of college games this year, thousands in my lifetime. Among the accepted behaviors: shake hands with closest opponent as the buzzer sounds; casually walk to your own bench to get in the handshake line; celebrate or commiserate with your teammates as appropriate. What was XRM doing? Did he think FSU had a miracle 15 points in 10 seconds hidden in their bag of tricks?

I'm in no way justifying Grayson's reaction, but his reaction never happens if there isn't an instigator.

[devildeac]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I acknowledge that jersey grabs happen, but when Grayson grabs a player streaking down the court, it's going to be scrutinized and our team can't be surprised.

If NCSU had grabbed Allen coming off a rebound as he was taking off with Duke down a couple of points late, everyone on this board would have been upset if there wasn't an F1 called. Allen surely isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt.

Cat wasn't streaking down the court-he was 1-2 ft away from Allen. I've used my examples already-Grayson's been grabbed in various ways recently and Duke gets a common foul called or no call. I don't want the benefit of the doubt. I want the same calls for the same offenses. And "consistently" watching, no scrutinizing Allen, is NOT consistency. It's singling out one player.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Cat wasn't streaking down the court-he was 1-2 ft away from Allen. I've used my examples already-Grayson's been grabbed in various ways recently and Duke gets a common foul called or no call. I don't want the benefit of the doubt. I want the same calls for the same offenses. And "consistently" watching, no scrutinizing Allen, is NOT consistency. It's singling out one player.

I'll be happy to have an off-season thread and discuss ESPN and other media outlets and their treatment of Duke and Duke players. I'd also be in favor of a thread dissecting referees and consistency of calls.

For now, I'd much rather focus on what our players on the court can do to best our chances to win nine more games. Let's go Duke!

[Henderson]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I acknowledge that jersey grabs happen, but when Grayson grabs a player streaking down the court, it's going to be scrutinized and our team can't be surprised.

If NCSU had grabbed Allen coming off a rebound as he was taking off with Duke down a couple of points late, everyone on this board would have been upset if there wasn't an F1 called. Allen surely isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt.


I'll be happy to have an off-season thread and discuss ESPN and other media outlets and their treatment of Duke and Duke players. I'd also be in favor of a thread dissecting referees and consistency of calls.

For now, I'd much rather focus on what our players on the court can do to best our chances to win nine more games. Let's go Duke!

I'm with Mountain Devil on this. The play fit squarely within the definition of a Flagrant 1. GA wasn't going for the ball. Same with the Louisville leg and the FSU trip. All were Flagrant 1 fouls.

OTOH, if the grab on Cat Barber had been an end-of-game situation, and Duke needed to foul, it would just have been an ordinary foul.

But that's not how it was. Players need to know how to play the game situationaly, and Grayson's situation is "much scrutiny." He brought it on himself. In at least the FSU game, he had been provoked repeatedly. But that too is a situation, and one that GA should have known how to handle without hurting the team.

But wanker it. Next play. Beat ND and advance.

[jv001]

Having done a very small amount of low-level refereeing, it's almost certain that referees are likely to keep a close eye on particular reputations. And yes, players sometimes grab a jersey, but it is also a textbook Flagrant 1.

On that we certainly agree. GoDuke!

[uh_no]

But wanker it. .

uhhhhhh...i know my office doesn't have HR yet...but i still think this is against the code of conduct.