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jwillfan
03-07-2016, 12:00 PM
Ran into a fellow Devil fan and we were discussing the UNCheat game and the season as a whole. Agreed on a few things - LOVE this team, how gritty they are, how well they've done with loss of Amile and other injuries and lack of quality depth. Then he made a statement I thought was a little odd: "Too bad we wasted Ingram." When I asked what he meant, his response was that Ingram is the "best player to ever put on a Duke jersey" and when he saw the very puzzled look on my face he explained that he thinks Ingram will be the best Pro prospect Duke has ever produced. Ok so I get the Kevin Durant comparison but we're talking potential - he has yet to play a game in the NBA. Got me thinking about who my top 5 list of all-time best Duke pros would be, thinking about their career, all star appearances, etc - without looking at any stats, mind you. I figured there would be plenty of you intelligent commentators here on the board with good data to back up your picks. Mine are:

Grant Hill (great career, shortened by injury)
Elton Brand - at his prime averaging a double-double
Shane Battier - made every team he played on better and has a title
JJ Redick - has made himself into a top-tier player, who knows for how many years
Kyrie Irving

Next:
Luol Deng
Carlos Boozer
Mike Dunleavy

Too soon to tell but promising:
Jabari
Jah
Justise

What might have been:
Jay Williams
Bobby Hurley

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 12:26 PM
Ran into a fellow Devil fan and we were discussing the UNCheat game and the season as a whole. Agreed on a few things - LOVE this team, how gritty they are, how well they've done with loss of Amile and other injuries and lack of quality depth. Then he made a statement I thought was a little odd: "Too bad we wasted Ingram." When I asked what he meant, his response was that Ingram is the "best player to ever put on a Duke jersey" and when he saw the very puzzled look on my face he explained that he thinks Ingram will be the best Pro prospect Duke has ever produced. Ok so I get the Kevin Durant comparison but we're talking potential - he has yet to play a game in the NBA. Got me thinking about who my top 5 list of all-time best Duke pros would be, thinking about their career, all star appearances, etc - without looking at any stats, mind you. I figured there would be plenty of you intelligent commentators here on the board with good data to back up your picks. Mine are:

Grant Hill (great career, shortened by injury)
Elton Brand - at his prime averaging a double-double
Shane Battier - made every team he played on better and has a title
JJ Redick - has made himself into a top-tier player, who knows for how many years
Kyrie Irving

Next:
Luol Deng
Carlos Boozer
Mike Dunleavy

Too soon to tell but promising:
Jabari
Jah
Justise

What might have been:
Jay Williams
Bobby Hurley

Agree with Grant at the top.

Christian Laettner was an all-star before he tore an Achilles.
I would add Johnny Dawkins to the list.
Danny Ferry was a role player but he played a long, long time.
AS did Shane Battier.


And Duke did play basketball before Mike Krzyzewski arrived.

Jeff Mullins was a multiple all-star.
As was Jack Marin
And Mike Gminski was pretty darn good.

Art Heyman, Jim Spanarkel and Gene Banks all had at least one NBA season in the 15 ppg range. Are we including the ABA? Bob Verga was a great ABA player, Mike Lewis and Randy Denton very good ABA players.

COYS
03-07-2016, 12:29 PM
Ran into a fellow Devil fan and we were discussing the UNCheat game and the season as a whole. Agreed on a few things - LOVE this team, how gritty they are, how well they've done with loss of Amile and other injuries and lack of quality depth. Then he made a statement I thought was a little odd: "Too bad we wasted Ingram." When I asked what he meant, his response was that Ingram is the "best player to ever put on a Duke jersey" and when he saw the very puzzled look on my face he explained that he thinks Ingram will be the best Pro prospect Duke has ever produced. Ok so I get the Kevin Durant comparison but we're talking potential - he has yet to play a game in the NBA. Got me thinking about who my top 5 list of all-time best Duke pros would be, thinking about their career, all star appearances, etc - without looking at any stats, mind you. I figured there would be plenty of you intelligent commentators here on the board with good data to back up your picks. Mine are:

Grant Hill (great career, shortened by injury)
Elton Brand - at his prime averaging a double-double
Shane Battier - made every team he played on better and has a title
JJ Redick - has made himself into a top-tier player, who knows for how many years
Kyrie Irving

Next:
Luol Deng
Carlos Boozer
Mike Dunleavy

Too soon to tell but promising:
Jabari
Jah
Justise

What might have been:
Jay Williams
Bobby Hurley

Um, the first tier should definitely include Christian Laettner. Even though he is sometimes illogically labeled a bust, that dude had a good NBA career that would have been better without the Achilles tear (ask Brand how much that can mess up your career as Brand was absolutely one of the best big men in the league prior to his Achilles tear). Maybe his college career had people thinking he'd be Duke's Michael Jordan in the NBA, but he put up very, very solid stats his first six years in the NBA, including an impressive 18.2ppg and 8.7rpg his rookie season. He suffers in comparison to Shaq and KG, one of which he played against (and bested) in college and the other with which he played alongside briefly in Minnie. But so does almost every other post player to enter the league around that time. Shaq and KG are HOFers.

Maybe it's not unique to Duke, but I feel like an inordinate number of our top tier NBA prospects have suffered some rough injuries. Grant Hill was on track to be a surefire HOFer and was a top 5 NBA player in his prime. Christian Laettner was on his way to a long career scoring in the high teens and grabbing 7+ boards. Bobby Hurley and Jason Williams probably had different ceilings, but both of them could have had long and productive careers. Brand was a top 10 NBA player in '06 and had been a top 20 player for most of his career who would have almost certainly stayed close to that level for at least three additional seasons without the Achilles tear. Kyrie has battled injuries despite already making his mark. Jabari has already suffered an ACL tear. Boozer was underrated for most of his career, which is kind of funny because injuries and age caused him to be overvalued towards the end of his career.

Duke has so many talented young players either in the league or soon to be in the league, I hope the basketball gods will bestow a little more health on our alumni in the NBA over the next decade. But it still seems like a pretty long list of guys who have suffered some bad injuries.

Pghdukie
03-07-2016, 12:37 PM
Agree with Grant at the top.

Christian Laettner was an all-star before he tore an Achilles.
I would add Johnny Dawkins to the list.
Danny Ferry was a role player but he played a long, long time.
AS did Shane Battier.


And Duke did play basketball before Mike Krzyzewski arrived.

Jeff Mullins was a multiple all-star.
As was Jack Marin
And Mike Gminski was pretty darn good.

Art Heyman, Jim Spanarkel and Gene Banks all had at least one NBA season in the 15 ppg range. Are we including the ABA? Bob Verga was a great ABA player, Mike Lewis and Randy Denton very good ABA players.
Jim, your using your History Degree on us again ! I also would suggest Grant Hill.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
03-07-2016, 12:37 PM
I remember watching as he tumbled to the court on his first bad injury with the Pistons. He was so amazing at that point in his career, he was third in MVP voting. The guy was on track to be one of the best Basketball players of all time. It really makes me sad to think back on it, and what could have been.

Jeffrey
03-07-2016, 12:41 PM
Grant, so far.

IMO, Corey should be on the "next" list.

phaedrus
03-07-2016, 12:46 PM
This should not sway anyone's opinion as to the topic of this thread, but it's worth noting that Hill, Duke's all-time leading NBA scorer, scored 372 points more than Brand over the course of his career, but Elton is ever so slowly catching up. At his current clip, Elton should pass Grant sometime in the 2063 season.

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 12:57 PM
I should have listed Corey Maggette.

And Rodney Hood belongs on the rising-with-a-bullet list. He's having a better second season than Parker.

CDu
03-07-2016, 01:03 PM
I would most certainly put Laettner, Mullins, Deng, and Boozer ahead of Redick. I'd also probably put Marin, Gminski, Dunleavy, and Verga ahead of Redick.

My list would look something like this:

Elite tier: Hill
Almost-elite tier: Brand, Irving (in progress)
Really good tier: Boozer, Laettner*, Deng, Mullins, Verga (technically ABA), Mullins, Marin
Very strong tier: Gminski, Dunleavy, Redick, Dawkins, Banks, Battier
Solid tier: Henderson, Heyman, Denton, Lewis
Contributors tier: a bunch of guys like Dahntay Jones, Duhon, Ferry, etc.
Others: a bunch of guys who were fringe NBAers

budwom
03-07-2016, 01:05 PM
I should have listed Corey Maggette.

And Rodney Hood belongs on the rising-with-a-bullet list. He's having a better second season than Parker.

In fact both Rodney and Jabari are averaging 14.6 points/game now, and Jabari has been en fuego of late....solid seasons for both of them, but
Jabari has been on a major roll....

COYS
03-07-2016, 01:23 PM
In fact both Rodney and Jabari are averaging 14.6 points/game now, and Jabari has been en fuego of late...solid seasons for both of them, but
Jabari has been on a major roll...

Their PER's are also almost identical (14.56 for Rodney, 14.58 for Jabari). But I agree with budworm. Since the All Star break, Jabari has been on fire, scoring 21.9ppg and hauling in 7 boards in 9 games since the break. That is the best stretch of his career and also coincides with the Bucks' brass declaring him fully recovered from his ACL tear from last year. Rodney has been fantastic this year, but Jabari is playing at a level that would definitely elevate him above Rodney by the end of the season if he keeps this up. In fact, Jabari has steadily improved his play throughout the season. You can track his recovery month by month by looking at his steady rise in his PPG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3056600/jabari-parker). As good as Jabari was at Duke, he was still working his way back into shape after his knee injury from senior year of high school. Then his rookie season was cut really short (he has played exactly 82 games in the NBA as of today, so in terms of court time, he has only just now finished his rookie season). Everyone who has seen him play recently has noted that he looks a little bouncier and quicker than before. It seems that we're just now getting to see how good Jabari can bee when he's fully healthy and in-form.

Lar77
03-07-2016, 01:47 PM
I would most certainly put Laettner, Mullins, Deng, and Boozer ahead of Redick. I'd also probably put Marin, Gminski, Dunleavy, and Verga ahead of Redick.

My list would look something like this:

Elite tier: Hill
Almost-elite tier: Brand, Irving (in progress)
Really good tier: Boozer, Laettner*, Deng, Mullins, Verga (technically ABA), Mullins, Marin
Very strong tier: Gminski, Dunleavy, Redick, Dawkins, Banks, Battier
Solid tier: Henderson, Heyman, Denton, Lewis
Contributors tier: a bunch of guys like Dahntay Jones, Duhon, Ferry, etc.
Others: a bunch of guys who were fringe NBAers

Generally agree with this list although I would move Mullins up a tier (my distant memory recalls a perennial all star playing the same conference as The Logo and Elgin)

Grant Hill was really good early on in the NBA and was viewed generally as MJ's successor until he got hurt.

Laettner was better early on than Kyrie, although there is probably a statistical rebuttal to this. Playing on some poor teams and injuries did not help. Kyrie will have the better career.

UrinalCake
03-07-2016, 01:50 PM
Grant reminds me a lot of Ken Griffey Jr. - had a great career, but it always felt like as fans we were cheated out of seeing how good he could have been if healthy. He was arguably the best player in the league in his prime. After him I'd probably go with Brand, but Kyrie could surpass him in a few years.

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 02:01 PM
Statistically at least, Corey Maggette is the guy who tends to get slighted in lists like this.

There are reasons why. He only played one season at Duke and that was as a sixth man. His best NBA seasons were on the west coast, with teams that tended to miss the playoffs and weren't on national TV a lot.

So, easy for him to slip under the radar screen.

But. Maggette played 14 seasons in the NBA, scored over 13,000 points, averaged 16 ppg and almost 5 rpg. At his peak, he averaged between 16.8 ppg and 22.2 ppg for eight consecutive seasons.

Now, he was an indifferent defender and didn't always look to create for his teammates.

But he played at Duke as long as Deng, Irving and the recent OADs and I forgot him the first time around and so did several others. Yet, he had a really solid NBA career. We think of Redick as a scorer but he's never come close to 22 ppg for an NBA season. And Maggette lasted much, much longer than teammates Trajan Langdon and William Avery.

I'm not prepared to put him in my Duke-alum top-five. But a pretty good case could be made for top-10.

Jeffrey
03-07-2016, 02:08 PM
I'm not prepared to put him in my Duke-alum top-five. But a pretty good case could be made for top-10.

Strongly agree.

Dukehky
03-07-2016, 02:12 PM
Generally agree with this list although I would move Mullins up a tier (my distant memory recalls a perennial all star playing the same conference as The Logo and Elgin)

Grant Hill was really good early on in the NBA and was viewed generally as MJ's successor until he got hurt.

Laettner was better early on than Kyrie, although there is probably a statistical rebuttal to this. Playing on some poor teams and injuries did not help. Kyrie will have the better career.

WHAT!?

Hill, then Brand. Brand had a 20/10 average for much of his career. Led the league in offensive rebounds for several years.

Lar77
03-07-2016, 02:21 PM
WHAT!?

Hill, then Brand. Brand had a 20/10 average for much of his career. Led the league in offensive rebounds for several years.

Agree. What's your point?

jv001
03-07-2016, 02:23 PM
I didn't see Dick Groat play basketball or baseball at Duke, but I have been told by some of my older friends that he could have been an outstanding NBA player, but he chose baseball instead. GoDuke!

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 02:30 PM
I didn't see Dick Groat play basketball or baseball at Duke, but I have been told by some of my older friends that he could have been an outstanding NBA player, but he chose baseball instead. GoDuke!

Groat played part of one season in the NBA and averaged 12 ppg.

But the NBA was significantly lower than MLB on the food chain in those days. Groat was in the Pirates organization and Branch Rickey insisted he make a choice.

And it worked out well. Groat played 14 seasons in MLB, 1960 NL MVP, two World Series titles, a five-time all-star.

But yes, had the stuck with hoops, there's every reason to believe he would have been a success.

Dukehky
03-07-2016, 02:34 PM
Agree. What's your point?

With Laettner ahead of Kyrie early on. I strongly disagree, and I am one who believes that Laett did have a really really good pro career. But Kyrie is going to be the first K player to have a shot at the hall of fame based on NBA career.

cspan37421
03-07-2016, 02:39 PM
Um, the first tier should definitely include Christian Laettner. Even though he is sometimes illogically labeled a bust, that dude had a good NBA career


I'm no sabremetrician w/r/t NBA basketball, but my recollection was that Laettner's numbers compared quite favorably to Bill Bradley's, and Bradley is in the HoF. Difference? Laettner played mostly on lousy teams. Other differences? I don't know. Maybe there are some. But at a glance, I could not see why one would be a definite NBA HoF player and one definitely not, except for that "team success" thing.

Devilwin
03-07-2016, 02:42 PM
Jeff Mullins
M Gminski
Jack Marin
Grant Hill
Elton Brand
My list does not, nor will it ever, include players that leave after one year.

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 02:48 PM
I'm no sabremetrician w/r/t NBA basketball, but my recollection was that Laettner's numbers compared quite favorably to Bill Bradley's, and Bradley is in the HoF. Difference? Laettner played mostly on lousy teams. Other differences? I don't know. Maybe there are some. But at a glance, I could not see why one would be a definite NBA HoF player and one definitely not, except for that "team success" thing.

If we use Bradley's NBA career as a reference point, the hall of fame would have about a thousand players.

Don't get me wrong, Bradley was a great college player. But he was a complementary NBA player, on some great teams. I don't think he was ever more than the Knicks 3rd or 4th best player. Dick Barnett was better. Cazzie Russell was better.

But all of this took place in NYC and Bradley was a cerebral player at a time when portions of the NYC intellectual elite began to think pro basketball was cool.

Jeff Mullins was a better NBA player than Bradley and it wasn't even close.

But the New Yorker never cared about Mullins.

Sorry for the rant. Pet peeve of mine.

Billy Dat
03-07-2016, 02:50 PM
My list does not, nor will it ever, include players that leave after one year.

Do you also discount last year's title as a result? I think that's a tough line to draw, if Christian Laettner came along in 2016, he'd likely be one-and-done based on his freshman year production and upside and family financial situation.

As for the overall parlor game, I am going to give it some more thought as I feel like the role these guys played on their team has to bolster their individual stats - which is why I think I'd have Battier, a key player on two NBA champs, higher on the list.

Billy Dat
03-07-2016, 02:52 PM
But the New Yorker never cared about Mullins.

Considering that "Mullins" was a common NY mispronunciation of Chris' surname, especially by his coach Looie, I think you are wrong about how much New Yorkers cared about "Mullins"

;^)

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 02:59 PM
Considering that "Mullins" was a common NY mispronunciation of Chris' surname, especially by his coach Looie, I think you are wrong about how much New Yorkers cared about "Mullins"

;^)

New Yorker magazine.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1965/01/23/a-sense-of-where-you-are

The New York Times consistently put forth the narrative that the Reed-Frazier-Debusschere, Bradley-Monroe-Barnett Knicks had profound intellectual insights beyond the comprehension of ordinary basketball players.

Billy Dat
03-07-2016, 03:35 PM
New Yorker magazine.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1965/01/23/a-sense-of-where-you-are

The New York Times consistently put forth the narrative that the Reed-Frazier-Debusschere, Bradley-Monroe-Barnett Knicks had profound intellectual insights beyond the comprehension of ordinary basketball players.

Jim - two titles in 70 years, and 75% of the post-championship years spent in mediocrity to laughing stock makes one try and accentuate the positive. Take away an inflated sense of our own importance and you take away a lot of what we NYers hold near and dear!!!

Indoor66
03-07-2016, 03:56 PM
Generally agree with this list although I would move Mullins up a tier (my distant memory recalls a perennial all star playing the same conference as The Logo and Elgin)

I agree with this. Mullins was terrific as a pro. Rice-a-Roni before Steph took over. :p:cool:

Indoor66
03-07-2016, 03:58 PM
If we use Bradley's NBA career as a reference point, the hall of fame would have about a thousand players.

Don't get me wrong, Bradley was a great college player. But he was a complementary NBA player, on some great teams. I don't think he was ever more than the Knicks 3rd or 4th best player. Dick Barnett was better. Cazzie Russell was better.

But all of this took place in NYC and Bradley was a cerebral player at a time when portions of the NYC intellectual elite began to think pro basketball was cool.

Jeff Mullins was a better NBA player than Bradley and it wasn't even close.

But the New Yorker never cared about Mullins.

Sorry for the rant. Pet peeve of mine.

Add to that the fact that Bradly jilted Duke at the last minute and we had steered Fred Hetzel to Davidson to keep him out of the conference. :mad:

Skitzle
03-07-2016, 04:00 PM
Top 5:

1. Patrick Davidson
2. Patrick Davidson
3. Patrick Davidson
4. Patrick Davidson
5. Patrick Davidson

Cuz He Shoots Hot Fire
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-21-2015/CiFBRr.gif

Devilwin
03-07-2016, 04:08 PM
Do you also discount last year's title as a result? I think that's a tough line to draw, if Christian Laettner came along in 2016, he'd likely be one-and-done based on his freshman year production and upside and family financial situation.

As for the overall parlor game, I am going to give it some more thought as I feel like the role these guys played on their team has to bolster their individual stats - which is why I think I'd have Battier, a key player on two NBA champs, higher on the list.

Those boys were Duke players when they won the title. Still in school, for the glory of the school. What they did by leaving school early discounts from my list as Greatest Duke Player in the NBA. Just my opinion.

DukeTrinity11
03-07-2016, 04:37 PM
Those boys were Duke players when they won the title. Still in school, for the glory of the school. What they did by leaving school early discounts from my list as Greatest Duke Player in the NBA. Just my opinion.

I'm not following the logic here. What does leaving early have to do with anything? Anyone who played one season or even part of a season at Duke would count as a "former Duke player" so why would they be excluded in the discussion of the "Greatest Duke Player in the NBA"?

Top 5 NBA Players from Duke
1. Grant Hill
2. Elton Brand
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Jeff Mullins
5. Luol Deng

Rodney Hood and Jabari Parker are both primed to become multiple time All Stars in the coming years and I wouldn't be surprised seeing them both take spots #3 and #4 as early as 2020 replacing Brand and presumably bumping Kyrie to #2. Winslow and Okafor certainly have similar ceilings but I'm not ready to pencil then in quite yet.

Brandon Ingram, Jayson Tatum and Harry Giles all have the potential to be top 5 caliber NBA players to just like Grant Hill from what I've seen and heard.

I think its safe to say that by the year 2020, anyone who still clings on to the age old adage that Duke players underperform in the NBA will be looked upon as being quite foolish.

luvdahops
03-07-2016, 04:47 PM
If we use Bradley's NBA career as a reference point, the hall of fame would have about a thousand players.

Don't get me wrong, Bradley was a great college player. But he was a complementary NBA player, on some great teams. I don't think he was ever more than the Knicks 3rd or 4th best player. Dick Barnett was better. Cazzie Russell was better.

But all of this took place in NYC and Bradley was a cerebral player at a time when portions of the NYC intellectual elite began to think pro basketball was cool.

Jeff Mullins was a better NBA player than Bradley and it wasn't even close.

But the New Yorker never cared about Mullins.

Sorry for the rant. Pet peeve of mine.

Though a very good passer, Bradley was arguably the precursor of modern shooting specialists like Kyle Korver, Mike Dunleavy and JJ. He kept the floor well spaced for the other Knicks to do their thing, especially Frazier, Monroe and Barnett. Never averaged more than 4.3 boards pg as a starting SF. Definitely not HoF material, and definitely an inferior player to Laettner overall.

Devilwin
03-07-2016, 04:57 PM
First, gotta remember I'm old school. I long for the days when you signed you were there four years, period. Hate this one and done crap. Plus, still loopy from my kidney stone ordeal today, lol.
See, there used to be a thing called commitment. I realize how it is these days, but it doesn't mean I gotta like it. Look at the teams in our own league that are dominated by three and four year players that are at or near the top. And since this is just in fun, I'll stick to my guns.

Jeffrey
03-07-2016, 05:26 PM
Jayson Tatum and Harry Giles all have the potential to be top 5 caliber NBA players to just like Grant Hill from what I've seen and heard.


IMO, it's a little early for HS players to make the potential "best from Duke" list. Josh McRoberts and other highly-ranked Duke recruits come to mind.

Edouble
03-07-2016, 06:23 PM
First, gotta remember I'm old school. I long for the days when you signed you were there four years, period. Hate this one and done crap. Plus, still loopy from my kidney stone ordeal today, lol.
See, there used to be a thing called commitment. I realize how it is these days, but it doesn't mean I gotta like it. Look at the teams in our own league that are dominated by three and four year players that are at or near the top. And since this is just in fun, I'll stick to my guns.

Yet, you allow Brand on your list, when he was at Duke for two years and essentially played a year and a half. I am just curious as to why the one year is the cut off. I would understand if you only included four year players.

dukelifer
03-07-2016, 07:02 PM
I'm not following the logic here. What does leaving early have to do with anything? Anyone who played one season or even part of a season at Duke would count as a "former Duke player" so why would they be excluded in the discussion of the "Greatest Duke Player in the NBA"?

Top 5 NBA Players from Duke
1. Grant Hill
2. Elton Brand
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Jeff Mullins
5. Luol Deng

Rodney Hood and Jabari Parker are both primed to become multiple time All Stars in the coming years and I wouldn't be surprised seeing them both take spots #3 and #4 as early as 2020 replacing Brand and presumably bumping Kyrie to #2. Winslow and Okafor certainly have similar ceilings but I'm not ready to pencil then in quite yet.

Brandon Ingram, Jayson Tatum and Harry Giles all have the potential to be top 5 caliber NBA players to just like Grant Hill from what I've seen and heard.

I think its safe to say that by the year 2020, anyone who still clings on to the age old adage that Duke players underperform in the NBA will be looked upon as being quite foolish.

I am just hoping Tatum and Giles are top 5 caliber in the ACC next year.

Devilwin
03-07-2016, 07:08 PM
Yet, you allow Brand on your list, when he was at Duke for two years and essentially played a year and a half. I am just curious as to why the one year is the cut off. I would understand if you only included four year players.

Dunno really. Two years shows a bit more commitment, I guess.

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 08:00 PM
Dunno really. Two years shows a bit more commitment, I guess.

There's a good chance Brand would have gone pro after a single year at Duke had he not missed much of his freshman season with a broken foot.

For what it's worth.

moonpie23
03-07-2016, 08:07 PM
hands down, grant hill......not even close...

look at what he was doing before the injury.....

Pghdukie
03-07-2016, 08:22 PM
For longevity, I'll throw Justice into the conversation. He may not be the greatest scorer, but he may play 15yrs.

jwillfan
03-07-2016, 09:51 PM
Some great thoughtful educated insightful opinionated responses which is exactly what I hoped and expected.

I did forget about Rodney and Corey in my initial list and agree with commenters about their places.

Anyone care to speculate about Brandon Ingram's eventual spot, the inspiration for the question?

I'll say I'm not sold on "best to ever put on a Duke uniform" as my friend says, but I could see him end up in the top 5 eventually. But I don't hav confidence that this is a lock.

g-money
03-07-2016, 11:52 PM
Some great thoughtful educated insightful opinionated responses which is exactly what I hoped and expected.

I did forget about Rodney and Corey in my initial list and agree with commenters about their places.

Anyone care to speculate about Brandon Ingram's eventual spot, the inspiration for the question?

I'll say I'm not sold on "best to ever put on a Duke uniform" as my friend says, but I could see him end up in the top 5 eventually. But I don't hav confidence that this is a lock.

Good thread topic! I'm glad the consensus is with Grant "g-money" Hill - my all time favorite Dukie.

I think Brandon Ingram's NBA prospects depend pretty strongly on his ability to become a knock-down outside shooter a la Kevin Durant. He does not have the body type to be an inside banger in the League, but with (a lot of) work I believe he can become very difficult to guard as a 6'9" shooting guard. Not sure that his ceiling is higher than the consensus top five on this thread, though.

duke4ever19
03-08-2016, 10:53 AM
10 years from now it will be Ingram. Second place Winslow.

And Okafor needs to develop at least an average defensive presence so he can be a perennial all-star that I think he is. I've watched the majority of his games this year, and there is no reason he shouldn't be averaging at least 10 rebounds a game.

It is fortunate that both Okafor and Winslow have good mentors to learn from. Okafor has Brand and Winslow has D-Wade.

jimsumner
03-08-2016, 01:29 PM
10 years from now it will be Ingram. Second place Winslow.

And Okafor needs to develop at least an average defensive presence so he can be a perennial all-star that I think he is. I've watched the majority of his games this year, and there is no reason he shouldn't be averaging at least 10 rebounds a game.

It is fortunate that both Okafor and Winslow have good mentors to learn from. Okafor has Brand and Winslow has D-Wade.

Are you predicting that in 10 years Ingram and Winslow will be the best former Duke players currently in the NBA?

Or that they will have the best NBA careers of any former Duke players ever?

Because, if it's the latter, they would have to have been in a half-dozen or so NBA all-star games and would have to be consensus top-5 players.

Even if it's the former, they would still have to be better than Irving, Parker, Hood, Allen, Tatum, Giles, Jackson, maybe Carter or Bamba.

Which is a bold prediction in and of itself.

jv001
03-08-2016, 02:49 PM
Agree with Grant at the top.

Christian Laettner was an all-star before he tore an Achilles.
I would add Johnny Dawkins to the list.
Danny Ferry was a role player but he played a long, long time.
AS did Shane Battier.


And Duke did play basketball before Mike Krzyzewski arrived.

Jeff Mullins was a multiple all-star.
As was Jack Marin
And Mike Gminski was pretty darn good.

Art Heyman, Jim Spanarkel and Gene Banks all had at least one NBA season in the 15 ppg range. Are we including the ABA? Bob Verga was a great ABA player, Mike Lewis and Randy Denton very good ABA players.

Jim, where would you put Randy Denton on the top Duke players(college only)? How about Tate Armstrong? Thanks for your reply. GoDuke!

jimsumner
03-08-2016, 03:25 PM
Jim, where would you put Randy Denton on the top Duke players(college only)? How about Tate Armstrong? Thanks for your reply. GoDuke!

Denton would be top 20. Armstrong is harder to judge. He only became a top-tier ACC player as a junior and lost half of his senior season to a broken wrist.

The prevalence of OADs makes this sort of thing increasingly difficult. Did Denton or Mike Lewis have a better college career than Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor?

Definition of terms really matters here.

jv001
03-08-2016, 07:10 PM
Denton would be top 20. Armstrong is harder to judge. He only became a top-tier ACC player as a junior and lost half of his senior season to a broken wrist.

The prevalence of OADs makes this sort of thing increasingly difficult. Did Denton or Mike Lewis have a better college career than Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor?

Definition of terms really matters here.

Thanks for your response. Denton and particularly Lewis were two of my favorite players so I rank them up there with Parker and Okafor. But Denton and Lewis were at Duke longer than Parker and Okafor so they should have been as good or better than Parker and Oakfor. I agree the OADs have made rating players more difficult. GoDuke!

Indoor66
03-09-2016, 08:15 AM
Thanks for your response. Denton and particularly Lewis were two of my favorite players so I rank them up there with Parker and Okafor. But Denton and Lewis were at Duke longer than Parker and Okafor so they should have been as good or better than Parker and Oakfor. I agree the OADs have made rating players more difficult. GoDuke!

The Missoula Mauler was a hoss on the boards and made wonderful outlet passes to Marin & Kennedy.