2016 ACC awards

[vick]

Allen 1st team, Ingram 2nd and Freshman of the Year. Brogdon POY and DPOY. (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=210777394)

Full teams:

First Team
Brice Johnson, North Carolina
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Cat Barber, NC State
Grayson Allen, Duke
Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson

Second Team
Michael Gbinije, Syracuse
Sheldon McClellan, Miami
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Damion Lee, Louisville

Third Team
Marcus Georges-Hunt, Georgia Tech
Anthony Gill, Virginia
Zach Auguste, Notre Dame
Michael Young, Pittsburgh
Angel Rodriguez, Miami

Honorable Mention
Justin Jackson, North Carolina
Tonye Jekiri, Miami
Zach LeDay, Virginia Tech
Chinanu Onuaku, Louisville
Marcus Paige, North Carolina
London Perrantes, Virginia
Devin Thomas, Wake Forest.

Freshman Team
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, Florida State
Malik Beasley, Florida State
Malachi Richardson, Syracuse
Bryant Crawford, Wake Forest

Defensive Team
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Tonye Jekiri, Miami
Michael Gbinije, Syracuse
Landry Nnoko, Clemson
Chinanu Onuaku, Louisville

Player of the Year: Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Freshman of the Year: Brandon Ingram, Duke
Coach of the Year: Jim Larrañaga, Miami
Defensive Player of the Year: Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Most Improved Player of the Year: Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson
Sixth Man of the Year: Isaiah Hicks, North Carolina


My thoughts: No surprises whatsoever on first team. Lee on 2nd team is a slight reach in my eyes, but OK. Angel Rodriguez on the third team is the only real head-scratcher to me. The fact that Marcus Paige apparently got more votes than Joel Berry is a bit of joke.

[vick]

Better link with vote totals (http://www.theacc.com/news/acsma-announces-basketball-season-awards-all-acc-teams-03-06-2016).

Three people voted Angel Rodriguez first team?!?! That's ludicrous.

[FerryFor50]

Most improved player was weird to me. How does Blossomgame, who was a viable starter last season, beat out Grayson, who barely played last season?

[dukelifer]

Allen 1st team, Ingram 2nd and Freshman of the Year. Brogdon POY and DPOY. (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=210777394)

Full teams:

First Team
Brice Johnson, North Carolina
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Cat Barber, NC State
Grayson Allen, Duke
Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson

Second Team
Michael Gbinije, Syracuse
Sheldon McClellan, Miami
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Damion Lee, Louisville

Third Team
Marcus Georges-Hunt, Georgia Tech
Anthony Gill, Virginia
Zach Auguste, Notre Dame
Michael Young, Pittsburgh
Angel Rodriguez, Miami

Honorable Mention
Justin Jackson, North Carolina
Tonye Jekiri, Miami
Zach LeDay, Virginia Tech
Chinanu Onuaku, Louisville
Marcus Paige, North Carolina
London Perrantes, Virginia
Devin Thomas, Wake Forest.

Freshman Team
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, Florida State
Malik Beasley, Florida State
Malachi Richardson, Syracuse
Bryant Crawford, Wake Forest

Defensive Team
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Tonye Jekiri, Miami
Michael Gbinije, Syracuse
Landry Nnoko, Clemson
Chinanu Onuaku, Louisville

Player of the Year: Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Freshman of the Year: Brandon Ingram, Duke
Coach of the Year: Jim Larrañaga, Miami
Defensive Player of the Year: Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Most Improved Player of the Year: Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson
Sixth Man of the Year: Isaiah Hicks, North Carolina


My thoughts: No surprises whatsoever on first team. Lee on 2nd team is a slight reach in my eyes, but OK. Angel Rodriguez on the third team is the only real head-scratcher to me. The fact that Marcus Paige apparently got more votes than Joel Berry is a bit of joke.

Blossomgame had a nice year but he started all last year and averaged about 13 ppg. Grayson went from bench warmer to first team all ACC. That seems to be most improved to me.

[superdave]

Better link with vote totals (http://www.theacc.com/news/acsma-announces-basketball-season-awards-all-acc-teams-03-06-2016).

Three people voted Angel Rodriguez first team?!?! That's ludicrous.

I think that is probably some Miami centric voters trying to boost Angel from honorable mention to 3rd team, right?

[bedeviled]

Most improved player was weird to me. How does Blossomgame, who was a viable starter last season, beat out Grayson, who barely played last season?It's not a snub, but it is a shame that there was no individual honor to mark the end of Duke's Plumnasty (er, Pluminion...? Plumnarchy?). Hopefully we'll get some more team honors for the family....and maybe some awards for grandchildren in the future.

[Wahoo2000]

CoY was SUPER-close. Larranaga 24 votes edges Buzz Williams 22. Those guys both deserved it. I'll go lobby Tony to give his 2 votes to Buzz..... but he never listens to me anyway (likely a big part of why he's been so successful.....)

[FerryFor50]

CoY was SUPER-close. Larranaga 24 votes edges Buzz Williams 22. Those guys both deserved it. I'll go lobby Tony to give his 2 votes to Buzz.... but he never listens to me anyway (likely a big part of why he's been so successful....)

Zero votes for K (after recovering from Amile's injury), but Buzz gets votes?

[dukelifer]

Zero votes for K (after recovering from Amile's injury), but Buzz gets votes?

K should be able to win with 4 players.

[Troublemaker]

Zero votes for K (after recovering from Amile's injury), but Buzz gets votes?

Coach did great, but ultimately, 11-7 doesn't pop off the page for a Duke team and is probably right around where we would've guessed Duke's ACC record would be when Amile went down in December. If Duke could've snuck a win out yesterday, Coach probably would've gotten a couple of votes.

I get the Buzz votes. VaTech was supposed to finish next-to-last and he managed to cobble together 10-8.

[sagegrouse]

Most improved player was weird to me. How does Blossomgame, who was a viable starter last season, beat out Grayson, who barely played last season?

I have question about this award. What's the baseline? Sitting on the bench all the previous season or playing and not doing much while on the court?

[fraggler]

Blossomgame had a nice year but he started all last year and averaged about 13 ppg. Grayson went from bench warmer to first team all ACC. That seems to be most improved to me.

Yeah, definitely a head scratcher. Biggest leap in scoring in ACC history doesn't get him the award?

[phaedrus]

It's not a snub, but it is a shame that there was no individual honor to mark the end of Duke's Plumnasty (er, Pluminion...? Plumnarchy?). Hopefully we'll get some more team honors for the family...and maybe some awards for grandchildren in the future.

Consider this your consolation.

https://vine.co/v/iXpVX1LWEdA

[brevity]

Better link with vote totals (http://www.theacc.com/news/acsma-announces-basketball-season-awards-all-acc-teams-03-06-2016).

Three people voted Angel Rodriguez first team?!?! That's ludicrous.


I think that is probably some Miami centric voters trying to boost Angel from honorable mention to 3rd team, right?

Nailed it. Angel Rodriguez is the only person on the 3rd team with any 1st team votes, and he has more than the last person of the 2nd team, Damion Lee. Those 3 voters gave him 15 of his 35 points.


ACC Coach of the Year
Jim Larrañaga, Miami 24
Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech 22
Tony Bennett, Virginia 2
Roy Williams, North Carolina 1
Brad Brownell, Clemson 1
Brian Gregory, Georgia Tech 1

As a realistic fan, of which there are not many, I do not delude myself into believing Coach K will ever win any conference or national COY awards again. Most voters will feel that he's won enough, or should have won enough. But I am very surprised that he received no votes at all. This award is largely weighed by two unspoken measures: showing improvement and overcoming adversity. This season presented Coach K's team with a great deal of adversity. Jim Larrañaga won because Miami showed improvement from last season, but it's an inflated comparison because they underachieved back then.

The only acceptable reason to vote for Brad Brownell or Brian Gregory is if you think it might help them keep their jobs. I am a little surprised Roy Williams received only one vote. Maybe the ACC voters agree that he performed below expectations?

[timmy c]

K should be able to win with 4 players.

Sure! Clearly you can make a fist with only four fingers...
6072:D

[Wahoo2000]

Yeah, definitely a head scratcher. Biggest leap in scoring in ACC history doesn't get him the award?

Probably too many media members that saw his performance in the championship game last year and figured that as the baseline for Grayson rather than his 5mpg regular season.

[wsb3]

Zero votes for K (after recovering from Amile's injury), but Buzz gets votes?

I think we all knew there was no chance K would win but zero votes? 11 conference wins without Amile is remarkable. We take for granted we are going to the NCAA tourney every year. This was not a year that it was a given.

[devildeac]

I think we all knew there was no chance K would win but zero votes? 11 conference wins without Amile is remarkable. We take for granted we are going to the NCAA tourney every year. This was not a year that it was a given.

jamie luckie did throw in a T for K. :mad:

[BobBender]

I think we all knew there was no chance K would win but zero votes? 11 conference wins without Amile is remarkable. We take for granted we are going to the NCAA tourney every year. This was not a year that it was a given.

The answer is that Coach K has 13 scholarships and is not going to get credit for playing 7 of the 13. Injuries happen and what became of the "next man up" mentality? Bottom line, no one outside of here is buying the heroic undermanned narrative.

[Olympic Fan]

Coach did great, but ultimately, 11-7 doesn't pop off the page for a Duke team and is probably right around where we would've guessed Duke's ACC record would be when Amile went down in December. If Duke could've snuck a win out yesterday, Coach probably would've gotten a couple of votes.

I get the Buzz votes. VaTech was supposed to finish next-to-last and he managed to cobble together 10-8.

It's no so much that VPI overachieved ... it's that they went from two ACC wins to 10 ACC wins in one season. That's the second-best single-season improvement in ACC history -- after their No. 1 scorer in 2015 transferred and their No. 3 scorer from 2015 was hurt all year and couldn't play ... plus their best freshman missed 14 games in the middle of the season.

I think Buzz's case is pretty strong.

Of course, Grayson had the greatest single season scoring jump in ACC history -- a 17 point jump that was almost three points better than the second-best jump in ACC history. Blossomgame improved five points from last year. How he beat out Grayson for most improved is a mystery.

BTW: Evidence that Grayson is in fact the devil he's made out to be -- he finished the regular season scoring exactly 666 points!

[CDu]

The answer is that Coach K has 13 scholarships and is not going to get credit for playing 7 of the 13. Injuries happen and what became of the "next man up" mentality? Bottom line, no one outside of here is buying the heroic undermanned narrative.

Especially when the potential next men up included a McD's All-American and a third-year guy who averaged nearly a double double as a frosh. From the outside it is really easy to make a case against K this year.

[FerryFor50]

The answer is that Coach K has 13 scholarships and is not going to get credit for playing 7 of the 13. Injuries happen and what became of the "next man up" mentality? Bottom line, no one outside of here is buying the heroic undermanned narrative.

That's fine. I wasn't advocating a win. Just votes. I mean, MP3 got a vote for DPOY...

[akg4y]

The answer is that Coach K has 13 scholarships and is not going to get credit for playing 7 of the 13. Injuries happen and what became of the "next man up" mentality? Bottom line, no one outside of here is buying the heroic undermanned narrative.

Yeah.. hate to say it but the rest of the conference considers it a joke. Failing to develop bench players in my opinion, if anything, should show as a negative for COY consideration.
The rest of the conference wonders how with all the high end recruits Duke only manages to have 6 players that are worthy of playing when other teams have 8-10 viable players and much less recruiting power. There have been threads here on the same exact discussion...

Personally I think Buzz should have gotten COY this year, he did by far the most with the least, took a team that was expected to finish in the bottom 3 of the ACC and planted them firmly at #7 with a winning record in a TOUGH conference. That is remarkable. They beat the 2 best teams in the conference in my opinion, UVA & Miami (UNC has a below 500 record against the top 25 and against UVA/Duke/Miami/ND).

[Eternal Outlaw]

Yeah.. hate to say it but the rest of the conference considers it a joke. Failing to develop bench players in my opinion, if anything, should show as a negative for COY consideration.
The rest of the conference wonders how with all the high end recruits Duke only manages to have 6 players that are worthy of playing when other teams have 8-10 viable players and much less recruiting power. There have been threads here on the same exact discussion...

Personally I think Buzz should have gotten COY this year, he did by far the most with the least, took a team that was expected to finish in the bottom 3 of the ACC and planted them firmly at #7 with a winning record in a TOUGH conference. That is remarkable. They beat the 2 best teams in the conference in my opinion, UVA & Miami (UNC has a below 500 record against the top 25 and against UVA/Duke/Miami/ND).

Good for the rest of the conference but it is a joke to say Duke has failed to develop bench players when they came into the season with 5 guys with experience. 4 of those guys are major contributors (obviously Jefferson while healthy), only Obi failed to break the rotation. 3 of 4 expected freshman (not many thought Vrank or Robinson would be rotation guys) are big minute contributors. So basically you're statement is aimed at 'failing' at Obi and Jeter? Jeter is a freshman, how about giving at least a year to develop the guy?

Looking at the rosters of those tied in the ACC with Duke or finished better, looks like UNC and Virginia don't play a single freshman 10+ minutes. Miami plays one with 8 guys they have had time to develop. ND has 2 with 6 guys they had time to develop. And Ville had 3 but also 5 guys they developed plus the 2 experienced grad tranfers.

Not looking for sympathy from the ACC, Duke put themselves in this situation by successfully recruiting players that wanted and succeeded to be one and dones. But lets not pretend they have 5 scholarship players that have have spent a lot of time in the program and not developed. Virginia has 8 guys playing 10+ minutes, not a single freshman and in fact, 4 of those guys seem to have RS by them meaning an extra year to develop in the program. I would sure hope they could have a good rotation in that situation. If Duke had that deep of an roster and with 3 freshman was still only playing 6.5 guys (even with 1 injured), then yes, that would be an issue.

I'm fine with Coach K not getting the award or votes but calling the situation a negative for his consideration is far more of a joke imo.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Congrats to Ingram and Allen. Impressive to be the only team in a huge league with two players in the first and second rosters.

I still claim is as one of the most impressive coaching jobs by K, but long ago made my peace with the fact that the media in general take his accomplishments for granted. It is a shame, but an unavoidable fact.

Very good "rebuilding" year, and plenty left to play for.

[luburch]

Not exactly sure where this should go, so I'll stick it here for now:

USA Today All-American Teams - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/03/07/usa-today-sports-all-america-teams-college-basketball/81411504/

Grayson was second team.

[tbyers11]

Not exactly sure where this should go, so I'll stick it here for now:

USA Today All-American Teams - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/03/07/usa-today-sports-all-america-teams-college-basketball/81411504/

Grayson was second team.

Grayson as second team is fine. But Brice Johnson over Brogdon for first team is a joke.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Grayson as second team is fine. But Brice Johnson over Brogdon for first team is a joke.

Dude, Johnson had 40 rebounds against us in two games. Brogdon is pretty dang good too, but I have a hard time getting upset about Brice over Malcolm.

[tbyers11]

Dude, Johnson had 40 rebounds against us in two games. Brogdon is pretty dang good too, but I have a hard time getting upset about Brice over Malcolm.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. He was a rebounding monster against us and FSU. Kudos.

However, I thought Brogdon had a far better year. His offensive numbers are better, particularly when accounting for pace (ORtg and WS are better). I don't think anyone is going to argue that Brogdon isn't a superior defender. He took and hit lots of clutch shots in close games. Brice disappeared in several of UNC's losses. The ACC media overwhelmingly voted Brogdon player of the year (38 to 9).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. He was a rebounding monster against us and FSU. Kudos.

However, I thought Brogdon had a far better year. His offensive numbers are better, particularly when accounting for pace (ORtg and WS are better). I don't think anyone is going to argue that Brogdon isn't a superior defender. He took and hit lots of clutch shots in close games. Brice disappeared in several of UNC's losses. The ACC media overwhelmingly voted Brogdon player of the year (38 to 9).

I agree that Brogdon is a more complete player. It just doesn't seem that absurd to me that Brice got the nod. Especially when you consider that for most of America, the only games before the NCAA tournament that are worth watching are the Duke/UNC matchups.

[luburch]

I'm still baffled that Grayson didn't get MIP. There is no logical explanation for him not winning.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm still baffled that Grayson didn't get MIP. There is no logical explanation for him not winning.

That is a more confusing development. Perhaps folks just forget that he was such a non-factor for most of last year?

[Indoor66]

That is a more confusing development. Perhaps folks just forget that he was such a non-factor for most of last year?

He was a non-factor on this board last year and part of last summer. Many did not recognize his ability.

[luburch]

CBS released their ACC selections. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25506574/virginias-brogdon-dukes-brandon-ingram-win-cbs-sports-acc-awards

Probably not worth that much in the end, but did want to link it because the article mentioned Coach K received at least on vote for COY.

Also had Grayson and Ingram on the first team and Ingram as ROY.

[MCFinARL]

Coach did great, but ultimately, 11-7 doesn't pop off the page for a Duke team and is probably right around where we would've guessed Duke's ACC record would be when Amile went down in December. If Duke could've snuck a win out yesterday, Coach probably would've gotten a couple of votes.

I get the Buzz votes. VaTech was supposed to finish next-to-last and he managed to cobble together 10-8.

I agree; I think Buzz Williams did a very good coaching job this year. He has started to pull that team together and gotten a couple of impressive wins.






As a realistic fan, of which there are not many, I do not delude myself into believing Coach K will ever win any conference or national COY awards again. Most voters will feel that he's won enough, or should have won enough. But I am very surprised that he received no votes at all. This award is largely weighed by two unspoken measures: showing improvement and overcoming adversity. This season presented Coach K's team with a great deal of adversity. Jim Larrañaga won because Miami showed improvement from last season, but it's an inflated comparison because they underachieved back then.

The only acceptable reason to vote for Brad Brownell or Brian Gregory is if you think it might help them keep their jobs. I am a little surprised Roy Williams received only one vote. Maybe the ACC voters agree that he performed below expectations?

I am a little surprised Roy received any votes. Doesn't he, to some extent, fall in the same zone as K, i.e. a Hall of Fame coach who is simply expected to do well given the high-quality personnel he has available? And given that UNC was rated #1 in the country by some going into the season, I think it's fair to say he has, overall, performed below expectations even though his team has won the regular season championship.

[tbyers11]

I agree that Brogdon is a more complete player. It just doesn't seem that absurd to me that Brice got the nod. Especially when you consider that for most of America, the only games before the NCAA tournament that are worth watching are the Duke/UNC matchups.

Ok, I think we are much more in agreement than I previously thought. I am also not surprised that Brice got first team AA over Brogdon because of the reasons that you cited above. Doesn't mean it still isn't a shame.

[westwall]

Grayson as second team is fine. But Brice Johnson over Brogdon for first team is a joke.

Perhaps USA Today just wanted another forward for the 1st team; there are only three on the first two teams.

Taking another tack, because Grayson is listed at the top of the 2nd team, can we reasonably infer that he was the "last off" the 1st Team?? And is even ahead of Brogdon?

[luburch]

Perhaps USA Today just wanted another forward for the 1st team; there are only three on the first two teams.

Taking another tack, because Grayson is listed at the top of the 2nd team, can we reasonably infer that he was the "last off" the 1st Team?? And is even ahead of Brogdon?

It appears they are listed alphabetically.

[DBFAN]

Yeah.. hate to say it but the rest of the conference considers it a joke. Failing to develop bench players in my opinion, if anything, should show as a negative for COY consideration.
The rest of the conference wonders how with all the high end recruits Duke only manages to have 6 players that are worthy of playing when other teams have 8-10 viable players and much less recruiting power. There have been threads here on the same exact discussion...

Personally I think Buzz should have gotten COY this year, he did by far the most with the least, took a team that was expected to finish in the bottom 3 of the ACC and planted them firmly at #7 with a winning record in a TOUGH conference. That is remarkable. They beat the 2 best teams in the conference in my opinion, UVA & Miami (UNC has a below 500 record against the top 25 and against UVA/Duke/Miami/ND).

I would say this is a bit unfair. The reality is that you have to look at what type of players you have, forget about talent level for a moment. If K recruits guys based on what he already has, just throwing out players to play to see if they develop doesn't really work. If K has a system of offense and defense, and Jefferson goes out, then Jeter was the most logical replacement. None of the other guys would fit into that scheme. If he had to use someone else then he would have had to adjust with the other starters. And when you have Allen and Ingram there isn't too many other options. Jeter had plenty of chances to improve, and everytime he came out he was extremely lost. He dropped more passes than Plumlee pump fakes. I doubt anybody really cares especially K, that he didn't win COY in the ACC. He has won 3 titles without getting one in that span

[OldPhiKap]

Congratulations to Allen, Ingram, and {g}

[FerryFor50]

I would say this is a bit unfair. The reality is that you have to look at what type of players you have, forget about talent level for a moment. If K recruits guys based on what he already has, just throwing out players to play to see if they develop doesn't really work. If K has a system of offense and defense, and Jefferson goes out, then Jeter was the most logical replacement. None of the other guys would fit into that scheme. If he had to use someone else then he would have had to adjust with the other starters. And when you have Allen and Ingram there isn't too many other options. Jeter had plenty of chances to improve, and everytime he came out he was extremely lost. He dropped more passes than Plumlee pump fakes. I doubt anybody really cares especially K, that he didn't win COY in the ACC. He has won 3 titles without getting one in that span

Agreed. It's "Coach of the year" not "recruiter of the year."

You have to look at the body of work over the season and how the coach adapted as the season went. I feel like Coach K navigated the challenges of Amile's injury and Jeter/Obi's ineffectiveness brilliantly. He stuck with a "play your best guys" mentality and it worked out, even though he had just 6 viable ACC players. Who you recruited and season expectations really shouldn't factor in. It should be your results.

Similar to how Cat Barber got consideration for ACC POY even though State was relatively bad.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Most improved player was weird to me. How does Blossomgame, who was a viable starter last season, beat out Grayson, who barely played last season?

I agree with you, but a lot of people are probably factoring in the star turn in the NCAA tournament. I agree that it's a no-brainer if you take 14-15 as a whole, but he "blew up," as the kids say, in the Final Four. So some folks probably started him at a higher baseline, consciously or not.

[Billy Dat]

I know Grayson's scoring average won't be finalized until the games are done, but 20+ ppg is a metric achieved by very few Duke players in recent memory. First off, he's 15th in scoring in D1 and only Cat Barber outscores him in the conference. Looking back, only Nolan, JJ and JWill hit 20+ppg in recent memory. I think about it because we've come to expect this from him and the way he has scored has been anything but routine. He scored 29 points against UNC in 40 minutes on Saturday and in the past 6 games, where he's been out leading scorer every game, he's had 29 or 30 in 3 of the six games. He is the only player on the team with more than 100 assists, and the next highest (DT) is 76. He's averaging 36 mpg. He leads the team in steals and is 3rd in rebounding.

Looking back at that recruiting class...Okafor, Winslow, Jones and Allen...wow.

[Jeffrey]

Sure! Clearly you can make a fist with only four fingers...
6072:D

Not sure about the fist, but you can play amazing guitar!

[timmy c]

Not sure about the fist, but you can play amazing guitar!

this guy did alright playing guitar with 4 fingers... COY!
6073

[Newton_14]

Good for the rest of the conference but it is a joke to say Duke has failed to develop bench players when they came into the season with 5 guys with experience. 4 of those guys are major contributors (obviously Jefferson while healthy), only Obi failed to break the rotation. 3 of 4 expected freshman (not many thought Vrank or Robinson would be rotation guys) are big minute contributors. So basically you're statement is aimed at 'failing' at Obi and Jeter? Jeter is a freshman, how about giving at least a year to develop the guy?

Looking at the rosters of those tied in the ACC with Duke or finished better, looks like UNC and Virginia don't play a single freshman 10+ minutes. Miami plays one with 8 guys they have had time to develop. ND has 2 with 6 guys they had time to develop. And Ville had 3 but also 5 guys they developed plus the 2 experienced grad tranfers.

Not looking for sympathy from the ACC, Duke put themselves in this situation by successfully recruiting players that wanted and succeeded to be one and dones. But lets not pretend they have 5 scholarship players that have have spent a lot of time in the program and not developed. Virginia has 8 guys playing 10+ minutes, not a single freshman and in fact, 4 of those guys seem to have RS by them meaning an extra year to develop in the program. I would sure hope they could have a good rotation in that situation. If Duke had that deep of an roster and with 3 freshman was still only playing 6.5 guys (even with 1 injured), then yes, that would be an issue.

I'm fine with Coach K not getting the award or votes but calling the situation a negative for his consideration is far more of a joke imo.
Yeah, lol, the joke is on anyone who thinks our bench is "underdeveloped". I get casual fans not understanding, but any real fan worth their salt would not call our bench "under developed". That would be akin to a Duke fan not understanding why Winslow and Okafor did not come back this season.

If Amile doesn't go down, it never becomes discussion anyway, and I will use this opportunity to make a point I have been meaning to make. One of the worst things that happened to Chase Jeter and his development, was Amile getting hurt. It's almost similar to when Ryan Kelly got hurt Amile's freshman year, forcing Amile into a bigger role than planned. The only difference is Amile was more ready to contribute as a Freshman than Chase was. If Amile doesn't go down, Chase can be brought along at a slower pace, with far less pressure. Chase would have been able to sub in for Marshall with the benefit of having Amile right by his side at Power Forward and Brandon at SF. He would have been far more comfortable/at ease/etc and I personally believe he would have progressed far better, giving us a true 8 man rotation. Instead, Chase got thrust into a moment he wasn't ready for yet.

There hasn't been a coaching staff in the world that could have "developed" Obi into an impact player this season. I have said it before, but I have to believe he has medical issues going on with his knees or something that has prevented him from playing at the level he played at his Freshman Season. The kid can't move, and he can't jump. Love his attitude though.

And like you indicate above, big Vrank, and Robinson were never expected to make contributions until 3 to 4 years down the road after Red Shirting. That only leaves walk ons. So I would love to find out from these experts, who all these "under developed" players are, and more importantly, where they are?

I think the Staff expected Tyus to be back, but unlike ol roy, fully supported his decision once he decided to leave. Thus the scramble to get Thornton reclassified, and get him in here.

So, in my view, we had plenty of players until Amile got hurt (He and MP3 were the two guys we absolutely could not afford to lose). But, once Amile did get hurt, we were left with the following:
1 True PG- Reclassified Freshman, who expected to be playing in High School, and had to miss the summer training and prep work which is very key for incoming Freshman
0 True PF- Fr Brandon and Jr Matt had to masquerade as PF's. We had to play at Louisville w/o Matt, meaning no sub for Brandon
2 Centers- Sr MP3/Fr Chase

7 Players-
4 Freshman (1 who should have been in High School and missed the Summer)
1 Soph (Who only played 5 mpg last year as a Fr)
1 Sr (Who had never been a starter before or played more than 11mpg previous)
1 Jr (The one and only player who had played rotation level minutes)

The fact this group achieved what they did, given the circumstances, is remarkable. They were oh so close to finishing off Louisville the second time, and scalping the Cheats a second time. Had they done that, K would have at least been in the running for Coach of the year. I don't feel he should have won it at all. A few votes were warranted.

But I take serious offense with anyone who thinks we have under developed players on the bench because that is laughable.

[Jeffrey]

There hasn't been a coaching staff in the world that could have "developed" Obi into an impact player this season. I have said it before, but I have to believe he has medical issues going on with his knees or something that has prevented him from playing at the level he played at his Freshman Season. The kid can't move, and he can't jump. Love his attitude though.


I strongly agree, Obi could not be developed into an ACC impact player. I'm not sure we need to say this season, since he is in his second year of Duke development.

I strongly agree, Obi can't move or jump and he appears to be a great young man.

My friend is a major Rice contributor and the way I recall Obi's Rice game was mostly below the rim. He owned a lot of paint real estate and he was very strong compared to most of his competition. He acquired many boards (mostly below the rim). Obi posted low, was not moved from a spot, and took some rather easy shots.

How do you recall his Freshman season? Do you recall him moving and jumping significantly better than he does now? How much of his Freshman game, do you recall, above the rim?

[tbyers11]

First Team
Brice Johnson, North Carolina
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia
Cat Barber, NC State
Grayson Allen, Duke
Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson

Second Team
Michael Gbinije, Syracuse
Sheldon McClellan, Miami
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Brandon Ingram, Duke
Damion Lee, Louisville

Third Team
Marcus Georges-Hunt, Georgia Tech
Anthony Gill, Virginia
Zach Auguste, Notre Dame
Michael Young, Pittsburgh
Angel Rodriguez, Miami

Honorable Mention
Justin Jackson, North Carolina
Tonye Jekiri, Miami
Zach LeDay, Virginia Tech
Chinanu Onuaku, Louisville
Marcus Paige, North Carolina
London Perrantes, Virginia
Devin Thomas, Wake Forest.

My thoughts: No surprises whatsoever on first team. Lee on 2nd team is a slight reach in my eyes, but OK. Angel Rodriguez on the third team is the only real head-scratcher to me. The fact that Marcus Paige apparently got more votes than Joel Berry is a bit of joke.

Talk on another thread about how someone was going to miss Marcus Paige's misses next year led to me think about an interesting question. When was the last time that the Preseason ACC player of the Year (Paige was preseason co-player of the year with Brogdon) didn't even make third team? Has it ever happened? I usually like to look up stuff like this on my own, but I'm a bit busy so I'll throw it out to the masses.


Better link with vote totals (http://www.theacc.com/news/acsma-announces-basketball-season-awards-all-acc-teams-03-06-2016).

Three people voted Angel Rodriguez first team?!?! That's ludicrous.

Beyond Vick's (correct) point about the ludicrousness of 3 people giving Angel Rodriguez first-place votes, my math shows that somebody in Honorable Mention got a first-place vote (unless one voter only picked 4 players for first team). Are the full totals published somewhere? Was that person Marcus Paige?

[dukelifer]

Talk on another thread about how someone was going to miss Marcus Paige's misses next year led to me think about an interesting question. When was the last time that the Preseason ACC player of the Year (Paige was preseason co-player of the year with Brogdon) didn't even make third team? Has it ever happened? I usually like to look up stuff like this on my own, but I'm a bit busy so I'll throw it out to the masses.



Beyond Vick's (correct) point about the ludicrousness of 3 people giving Angel Rodriguez first-place votes, my math shows that somebody in Honorable Mention got a first-place vote (unless one voter only picked 4 players for first team). Are the full totals published somewhere? Was that person Marcus Paige?
Didn't look it up but this should exclude players who got injured and could not play.

[CDu]

Talk on another thread about how someone was going to miss Marcus Paige's misses next year led to me think about an interesting question. When was the last time that the Preseason ACC player of the Year (Paige was preseason co-player of the year with Brogdon) didn't even make third team? Has it ever happened? I usually like to look up stuff like this on my own, but I'm a bit busy so I'll throw it out to the masses.



Beyond Vick's (correct) point about the ludicrousness of 3 people giving Angel Rodriguez first-place votes, my math shows that somebody in Honorable Mention got a first-place vote (unless one voter only picked 4 players for first team). Are the full totals published somewhere? Was that person Marcus Paige?

None in the previous 15+ years missed. Four (Morris, Duhon, Felton, and Leslie) wound up 3rd Team. Paige is the first in the last 15+ years to miss all three teams altogether. I am not sure if the preseason award was around prior to that time frame.

[tbyers11]

None in the previous 15+ years missed. Four (Morris, Duhon, Felton, and Leslie) wound up 3rd Team. Paige is the first in the last 15+ years to miss all three teams altogether. I am not sure if the preseason award was around prior to that time frame.

Thanks CDu. Do you have find a list of all the preseason POY picks? My Google search failed to find a comprehensive list. I could find some searching by individual year but I couldn't find a list.

[tbyers11]

One thing I did find in my search was the Coaches selection's that I haven't seen posted on here. Full link. (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-coaches-postseason-awards-all-acc-team-announced-03-07-2016)

First Team
Brice Johnson, Sr., North Carolina,*75
Malcolm Brogdon, Sr., Virginia, *75
Grayson Allen, So., Duke, 69
Jaron Blossomgame, Jr., Clemson, 65
Cat Barber, Jr., NC State, 60

Second Team
Demetrius Jackson, Jr., Notre Dame, 45
Sheldon McClellan, Sr., Miami, 44
Brandon Ingram, Fr., Duke, 41
Michael Gbinije, Sr., Syracuse, 36
Marcus Georges-Hunt, Sr., Georgia Tech, 32

Third Team
Damion Lee, Sr., Louisville, 30
Anthony Gill, Sr., Virginia, 21
Michael Young, Jr., Pittsburgh, 15
Zach Auguste, Sr., Notre Dame, 9
Tonye Jekiri, Sr., Miami, 9

Honorable Mention:
Malik Beasley, Florida State, Fr.; Zach LeDay, Jr., Virginia Tech; Chinanu Onuaku, So., Louisville; London Perrantes, Jr., Virginia; Devin Thomas, Sr., Wake Forest.

Overall very similar. First team the was the same although Grayson got more votes from the coaches. Lee and Georges-Hunt swap 2nd and 3rd team honors. Jekiri replaces Rodriguez for the last spot on the 3rd team. Paige doesn't even appear in Honorable Mention.

Freshman and defensive teams in the link. Brogdon was POY, Ingram was Freshman of the Year, Grayson and Blossomgame were co-Most Improved players, Larranaga was COY.

[Indoor66]

One thing I did find in my search was the Coaches selection's that I haven't seen posted on here. Full link. (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-coaches-postseason-awards-all-acc-team-announced-03-07-2016)

First Team
Brice Johnson, Sr., North Carolina,*75
Malcolm Brogdon, Sr., Virginia, *75
Grayson Allen, So., Duke, 69
Jaron Blossomgame, Jr., Clemson, 65
Cat Barber, Jr., NC State, 60

Second Team
Demetrius Jackson, Jr., Notre Dame, 45
Sheldon McClellan, Sr., Miami, 44
Brandon Ingram, Fr., Duke, 41
Michael Gbinije, Sr., Syracuse, 36
Marcus Georges-Hunt, Sr., Georgia Tech, 32

Third Team
Damion Lee, Sr., Louisville, 30
Anthony Gill, Sr., Virginia, 21
Michael Young, Jr., Pittsburgh, 15
Zach Auguste, Sr., Notre Dame, 9
Tonye Jekiri, Sr., Miami, 9

Honorable Mention:
Malik Beasley, Florida State, Fr.; Zach LeDay, Jr., Virginia Tech; Chinanu Onuaku, So., Louisville; London Perrantes, Jr., Virginia; Devin Thomas, Sr., Wake Forest.

Overall very similar. First team the was the same although Grayson got more votes from the coaches. Lee and Georges-Hunt swap 2nd and 3rd team honors. Jekiri replaces Rodriguez for the last spot on the 3rd team. Paige doesn't even appear in Honorable Mention.

Freshman and defensive teams in the link. Brogdon was POY, Ingram was Freshman of the Year, Grayson and Blossomgame were co-Most Improved players, Larranaga was COY.

I can't really disagree with any of these choices. Maybe Larranaga, a little, as he had a lot coming back from a pretty good team. Paige has no place in any awards list for this year. His play was, at best, pedestrian.

[sagegrouse]

The answer is that Coach K has 13 scholarships and is not going to get credit for playing 7 of the 13. Injuries happen and what became of the "next man up" mentality? Bottom line, no one outside of here is buying the heroic undermanned narrative.
I think you're trolling, but I agree that "managing the roster" is important, and we have had our struggles this year. It partly underscores our more aggressive approach in 2016 to recruiting a full 13-man roster.

I would have voted for either Buzz or Larranaga, although it occurred to me that Jeff Capel should get consideration due to the Georgia Tech comeback win and his wider use of the Duke bench.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

[DarkstarWahoo]

I think you're trolling, but I agree that "managing the roster" is important, and we have had our struggles this year. It partly underscores our more aggressive approach in 2016 to recruiting a full 13-man roster.

I would have voted for either Buzz or Larranaga, although it occurred to me that Jeff Capel should get consideration due to the Georgia Tech comeback win and his wider use of the Duke bench.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

It is a part of the game, and it's the other side of the double-edged sword that is you guys' increasing reliance on one-and-dones. One reason my Wahoos are decently positioned to make a run is that nine of the 11 active players are ACC-ready (with Jarred Reuter and Jack Salt roughly in the Chase Jeter boat at this point). Evan Nolte is not a world-beater, but he can come in and give you minutes, and part of that is that he's stayed four years, knows the system and is accustomed to the ACC.

As much as I'm enjoying this UVA team and the privilege of rooting for Malcolm Brogdon for the past decade, it should go without saying that I'd take the Duke results any day of the week. Going one-and-done-heavy can hurt your depth when injuries happen and guys don't pan out, but the juice was clearly worth the squeeze.

[luburch]

These are National awards and not ACC, but voting is now open for the Jerry West Award (Grayson) and the Julius Erving Award (Ingram). Vote Here (http://www.hoophallawards.com/vote.php)

You can vote once per day.

My picks FWIW:
Ferrell
Allen
Ingram
Niang
Poeltl

[Indoor66]

These are National awards and not ACC, but voting is now open for the Jerry West Award (Grayson) and the Julius Erving Award (Ingram). Vote Here (http://www.hoophallawards.com/vote.php)

You can vote once per day.

My picks FWIW:
Ferrell
Allen
Ingram
Niang
Poeltl

I wish a Mod would pin that link to the top of the board so that voting can continue....:cool: