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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 72, unc 76 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
03-05-2016, 08:39 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

gurufrisbee
03-05-2016, 08:40 PM
Stings a little, because like 2/3 of our losses this season - we easily win with Amile.

fuse
03-05-2016, 08:40 PM
Proud of the heart, effort and grit.

A few of those second half open threes go and maybe a different outcome.

Thanks Marshall for a great career!

Bob Green
03-05-2016, 08:41 PM
We did not keep Brice Johnson off the offensive glass. Ballgame!

BD80
03-05-2016, 08:42 PM
What happened to Thornton?

bleedingblue88
03-05-2016, 08:43 PM
Props for fighting hard, and not giving up. On the downside, can't imagine a poorer way to end the season. Looking like an early round exit. Another case of running out of gas.

CoachJ10
03-05-2016, 08:44 PM
Stings a little, because like 2/3 of our losses this season - we easily win with Amile.

Yep. Sigh.

MartyClark
03-05-2016, 08:44 PM
I think it was a good effort. We could have been blown out with Ingram in early foul trouble and Thornton showing no offense.

UNC has too many bigs. They killed us on the glass, as expected.

Grayson Allen is a stud.

I'm not sure what this team does from here but it has been a fun year.

Go Duke.

gocanes0506
03-05-2016, 08:44 PM
Free Throws and open 3s missed lost the game despite being dominated on the boards. Hate losing to the cheating bunch but by only 4 with all against Duke, it's tolerable!

CDu
03-05-2016, 08:46 PM
It is hard to win when you get more than doubled up on the glass, shoot under 40% on 2s, and under 70% on FTs. We played hard and our 3pt shooting (and UNC's 3pt shooting) kept it close. We just needed a few more makes and a few more boards.

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 08:46 PM
This one didn't hurt too badly because I expected UNC to win, maybe even handily.

They outrebounded Duke by more than 30. They had no significant foul trouble. They had Ingram in foul trouble all game. Duke shot 38% from the field and 60% from the FT line. UNC shot 90% from the FT line. Thornton didn't play well. Kennedy Meeks suddenly figured out how to play.

Yet, Duke only lost by 4.

If I'm a UNC fan I'm ecstatic I won, but a tiny part of me thinks "how did we not beat them by 20?" And that's enough for me - the fact that they had to sweat it out *again*, especially after that loss in Chapel Hill, and that Duke gutted out another battle and fought to the end.

Still amazed how Grayson Allen went to the FT line only twice though. Gets kind of old when he gets hit on drives and doesn't get the calls.

Lulu
03-05-2016, 08:46 PM
Well the holes going 10-for-10 on their free throws just sucked. How many times could they do that in a row? Felt like the ball didn't bounce our way this time, and despite being behind the whole game it actually seemed like we should have, could have, won. So many missed shots... and despite the fact we allowed it, so many easy put backs for them and tip ins. Maybe we got tired but it was like we just fell asleep at a few crucial moments giving up the points that cost us in the end. Bummed.

Doria
03-05-2016, 08:46 PM
Ingram's fouls were pretty much the difference to me. Without him, rebounding and defense are both worse (whether or not he was in the game).

Guys didn't give up, but I'd like to have had some of those open 3's we missed back. Well, we'll probably (hopefully) get another chance at them in the ACCT.

DukeFanSince1990
03-05-2016, 08:47 PM
I really don't know how we didn't lose by a lot more. This team has grit.

Tripping William
03-05-2016, 08:47 PM
Felt a lot like the Chapel Hill game, except Berry didn't keep throwing bricks and they made FT's down the stretch. Bad match-up for us, and certainly hard to fault the effort.

flyingdutchdevil
03-05-2016, 08:48 PM
Proud of the heart, effort and grit.

A few of those second half open threes go and maybe a different outcome.

Thanks Marshall for a great career!

Second. I really like this team, actually more than most years. Played our hearts out. Allen is an emotional wreck, in both a good and bad way.

We can go far. But it'll be a nail bitter every time

Bluegrassdevil1
03-05-2016, 08:49 PM
2012: Duke had a down year, UNC was a top team, Duke split the games.

2016: Duke is having a down year, UNC is a top team, Duke split the games.

The last two times Duke has had a tough year, UNC has been a pick to compete for the big gold trophies, yet Duke still got a win.

Think about that...

And if those thoughts do not help: watch Jefferson, Giles, Tatum, and Jackson on Youtube.

Everything is going to be okay.

Doria
03-05-2016, 08:51 PM
Well the holes going 10-for-10 on their free throws just sucked. How many times could they do that in a row? Felt like the ball didn't bounce our way this time, and despite being behind the whole game it actually seemed like we should have, could have, won. So many missed shots... and despite the fact we allowed it, so many easy put backs for them and tip ins. Maybe we got tired but it was like we just fell asleep at a few crucial moments giving up the points that cost us in the end. Bummed.

Yeah, I agree with this. I thought it wasn't ideal that, though we managed to tie it up in the second half, we never got the lead after that. Sometimes, it feels like when you play from behind the whole game, there are times when you just can't get over the hump. Great effort, but just not enough.

lotusland
03-05-2016, 08:51 PM
Heels killed us on the glass and shot 20-23 from the charity stripe vs. Duke 9-15.

dukelifer
03-05-2016, 09:00 PM
I would have been delighted with a win but if UNC had lost I would have had serious doubts about their program. They killed on the boards but only won by a few points. Duke shot poorly, was in foul trouble and still had a chance. This Duke team fights and that is all you can ask. Time to get ready for the second season to gain some experience and perhaps make a little splash depending on matchups. Maybe a 5 or 6 seed unless a semi final or final of the ACC tourney.

arnie
03-05-2016, 09:01 PM
Heels killed us on the glass and shot 20-23 from the charity stripe vs. Duke 9-15.
Looking at the box score, same rebound problem we've had all year, our bigs do OK (not great), but swing players/guards don't really help much. I don't know why, but Matt is a poor rebounder (zero tonight) and averages just 2.6 with a ton of minutes per game. Grayson's ok, but that's it for players not named Plumlee or Ingram. Still amazing we compete with such a huge disadvantage.

jipops
03-05-2016, 09:02 PM
This one doesn't sting as bad as past losses to the cheats for me either. We really should have been run out of the gym in this one. Good move by K to go zone just to give us a fighting chance. It was a no brainer that the cheats would beat us on the boards, but I think the margin has to be largely attributed to fatigue. They continued to crush us on the boards even with Brice at center. This was not a pretty game to watch by any stretch. I was very surprised that the cheats struggled that much against our zone. I know they don't shoot well from the perimeter, but they looked awkward even around the lane. Almost their entire offense was off the boards. I was sort of shocked that the cheats went zone and 1-3-1 near the end, then I remembered who their coach was.

I'm extremely impressed by the team K put out on the floor tonight and throughout this season. Most teams, even with the young talent that exists on this one, would have folded and now be a part of bubble talk under the circumstances faced. But this one fought and went on a terrific run to earn a seed. And you would be hard pressed to find a kid that plays with as much heart as Grayson.

devildeac
03-05-2016, 09:02 PM
And mike brey can GTH too for rooting for the h**ls tonight.

WakeDevil
03-05-2016, 09:02 PM
Block out first. Rebound second. Novel idea.

jipops
03-05-2016, 09:07 PM
2012: Duke had a down year, UNC was a top team, Duke split the games.

2016: Duke is having a down year, UNC is a top team, Duke split the games.

The last two times Duke has had a tough year, UNC has been a pick to compete for the big gold trophies, yet Duke still got a win.

Think about that...

And if those thoughts do not help: watch Jefferson, Giles, Tatum, and Jackson on Youtube.

Everything is going to be okay.

It's never a down year when you make the tournament. I know I will never, ever consider 2016 a "down" year. I'm really blown away by this group. It certainly has its weaknesses, but compensates for them brilliantly.

Coballs
03-05-2016, 09:07 PM
Duke's recent domination of UNC, the February win in Chapel Hill, the 2015 National Championship, the critical loss of Amile for the season, our absolutely stacked roster next season, and the NCAA sanctions that will eventually be dropped on UNC all make this one somewhat tolerable.

grossbus
03-05-2016, 09:07 PM
Well, even with all those rebounds, if we shoot just a little bit better...

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 09:09 PM
It's never a down year when you make the tournament. I know I will never, ever consider 2016 a "down" year. I'm really blown away by this group. It certainly has its weaknesses, but compensates for them brilliantly.

Honestly, it only became a "down" year when Amile got hurt and Jeter didn't develop as fast as we'd have liked. And "down" means 22-9 after a national championship. I'll take it.

dyedwab
03-05-2016, 09:10 PM
1) This team is one of the grittiest, most resilient Duke teams I've ever cheered for. They just won't die. And its their best quality by far. When we went down by double digits and weren't making any shots, it would have been easy for the game to get of hand. It never did.

2) Also, big props for the last home game for Marshall Plumlee. What a warrior. And the only reason we didn't get killed even worse on the board was him.

3) The key to this team is really simple, we have to adequate on defense, but we HAVE TO MAKE SHOTS. More than any other Duke team I can remember, this team must make shots, because it's not that good at a lot of the other things. And, by gosh, must of the time they do. But not tonight.

4) We only have a few games left for my dream of Brandon, Luke, and Grayson being simultaneously hot offensively. Tonight was closest, but Brandon's foul trouble preluded that.

5) As for making shots, part of that is making sure the right people take the right shots. Our first two shots today were missed jump shots by Derryck. Those were not the right shots. And it felt like a bad omen.

6) Ironically, if we can get a win or two in the ACC tournament, our lack of depth turns into an advantage. We are more used to playing tired than anyone else in the league.

So, disappointed in the loss, but not in this team's effort, and fight. On to the Verizon Center.

Saratoga2
03-05-2016, 09:13 PM
Two key points made before the game were that we had to box out and we had to shoot well. We didn't box out and when Ingram had to sit we lost a lot of size important to rebounding. We also started out shooting poorly. It looked like we might be blown out. We persevered and made a game of it. My thoughts>

1. Luke makes a big difference in the offense with good ball handling, court awareness, passing and scoring. It is a mistake not to have him in the game for major minutes.
2. We tend to tap balls out rather than grab them as rebounds, even when they are there to be had. Our guys should look at improving in that area.
3. Grayson plays with reckless abandon. He is an amazing talent and the recklessness is both a strength and a weakness as he may force a wild shot when another alternative may be available.

We were in this game against a team thought by many pundits to be a high tournament seed. We have a chance to make a splash in the tournament but probably don't have what is needed to go very deep. I like the guts this team has shown. Congratulations to Marshall in particular for making such a major improvement in his play this year. Hope to see Amile back next year if that is what he wants.

flyingdutchdevil
03-05-2016, 09:17 PM
Two key points made before the game were that we had to box out and we had to shoot well. We didn't box out and when Ingram had to sit we lost a lot of size important to rebounding. We also started out shooting poorly. It looked like we might be blown out. We persevered and made a game of it. My thoughts>

1. Luke makes a big difference in the offense with good ball handling, court awareness, passing and scoring. It is a mistake not to have him in the game for major minutes.
2. We tend to tap balls out rather than grab them as rebounds, even when they are there to be had. Our guys should look at improving in that area.
3. Grayson plays with reckless abandon. He is an amazing talent and the recklessness is both a strength and a weakness as he may force a wild shot when another alternative may be available.

We were in this game against a team thought by many pundits to be a high tournament seed. We have a chance to make a splash in the tournament but probably don't have what is needed to go very deep. I like the guts this team has shown. Congratulations to Marshall in particular for making such a major improvement in his play this year. Hope to see Amile back next year if that is what he wants.

All three points are spot on. Kennard is a stud, we are not s good rebounding team, and GA is awesomely out of control. Love this team! I am serious. This team over accomplished, given Amile's foot and Jeter's complete lack of contribution.

Wander
03-05-2016, 09:18 PM
3. Grayson plays with reckless abandon. He is an amazing talent and the recklessness is both a strength and a weakness as he may force a wild shot when another alternative may be available.

I agree with this - he reminds me of a poor man's Dwayne Wade a bit. The key point in the game was when we finally tied it, Grayson made a poor decision to take a 1 on 4 fast break that led to a UNC layup, and then next possession flopped (I think - I'll have to rewatch) on a 3 pointer to draw a foul which also led to a UNC layup. All that hard work to tie it (which Grayson had a part of), but UNC immediately goes up 4.

Grayson is a great player and plays with as much effort as anyone, but he hasn't quite figured out that fine line between successful drives that draw fouls and forcing the issue with attempts to get a foul called when the defense isn't actually giving him anything.

flyingdutchdevil
03-05-2016, 09:20 PM
I agree with this - he reminds me of a poor man's Dwayne Wade a bit. The key point in the game was when we finally tied it, Grayson made a poor decision to take a 1 on 4 fast break that led to a UNC layup, and then next possession flopped (I think - I'll have to rewatch) on a 3 pointer to draw a foul which also led to a UNC layup. All that hard work to tie it (which Grayson had a part of), but UNC immediately goes up 4.

Grayson is a great player and plays with as much effort as anyone, but he hasn't quite figured out that fine line between successful drives that draw fouls and forcing the issue with attempts to get a foul called when the defense isn't actually giving him anything.

Agreed, but I'd take Allen's mentality and aggression over any other NcAA player's attitude. I love the dude

Duke76
03-05-2016, 09:21 PM
Two key points made before the game were that we had to box out and we had to shoot well. We didn't box out and when Ingram had to sit we lost a lot of size important to rebounding. We also started out shooting poorly. It looked like we might be blown out. We persevered and made a game of it. My thoughts>

1. Luke makes a big difference in the offense with good ball handling, court awareness, passing and scoring. It is a mistake not to have him in the game for major minutes.
2. We tend to tap balls out rather than grab them as rebounds, even when they are there to be had. Our guys should look at improving in that area.
3. Grayson plays with reckless abandon. He is an amazing talent and the recklessness is both a strength and a weakness as he may force a wild shot when another alternative may be available.

We were in this game against a team thought by many pundits to be a high tournament seed. We have a chance to make a splash in the tournament but probably don't have what is needed to go very deep. I like the guts this team has shown. Congratulations to Marshall in particular for making such a major improvement in his play this year. Hope to see Amile back next year if that is what he wants.

agree with this..gotta play Luke....dont know why Thornton took that first shot

but I thought we went back to hesitating on taking the outside shot early on, pump faking more and just not shooting it with assurance. these refs were not my favorites pretty letting bumps go along the baseline I thought went against us...letting guys body us up and not getting the calls

Newton_14
03-05-2016, 09:22 PM
This one doesn't sting as bad as past losses to the cheats for me either. We really should have been run out of the gym in this one. Good move by K to go zone just to give us a fighting chance. It was a no brainer that the cheats would beat us on the boards, but I think the margin has to be largely attributed to fatigue. They continued to crush us on the boards even with Brice at center. This was not a pretty game to watch by any stretch. I was very surprised that the cheats struggled that much against our zone. I know they don't shoot well from the perimeter, but they looked awkward even around the lane. Almost their entire offense was off the boards. I was sort of shocked that the cheats went zone and 1-3-1 near the end, then I remembered who their coach was.

I'm extremely impressed by the team K put out on the floor tonight and throughout this season. Most teams, even with the young talent that exists on this one, would have folded and now be a part of bubble talk under the circumstances faced. But this one fought and went on a terrific run to earn a seed. And you would be hard pressed to find a kid that plays with as much heart as Grayson.

They're just not that good at the end of the day Pops. I have never seen a team dominate the paint and rebound to that extent, yet have to scrape and hit pressure FT's just to pull out a win? Unreal. Their perimeter players just suck so badly their bigs can barely overcome their ineptness. Marcus Paige has to be the most regressed player I have ever seen stay 4 years. To go from dominant to a non-factor in two years is mind boggling.

But, on to our guys. So proud of these guys. THey just keep fighting no matter how many things are going against them. No Amile, PG so ineffective he gets benched, Ingram misses most of 1st half with 2 fouls and then has to play most of the second with 4 fouls, forcing us to go zone way more than we want, not shooting it really well, not getting calls on drives, not making FT's when a foul is called, and MINUS 35 on the boards, yet, there they are at the end with a chance to pull it out. Amazing heart. Someone mentioned upthread they were happy to just be close.... please. Those guys hated losing that game. Grayson was so emotional K had to take him out for that final 1.5. No tears does not equal "Happy to stay close"... Those guys are hurting and spitting mad they let that uncheat team beat them.

I will go into every tourney game believing they will either win or have a chance to win, and fight along beside them till the clock runs out....

I do feel bad for Amile and I feel bad for the rest of the guys that they lost Amile, because I firmly believe that with Amile all year, this team just finished up the Regular Season no worse than 26-5, and as the outright Champions of the ACC Regular Season, headed into next weekend competing for the Tourney Title and a 1 Seed.


Keep fighting guys.

Go Duke!!

Newton_14
03-05-2016, 09:32 PM
All three points are spot on. Kennard is a stud, we are not s good rebounding team, and GA is awesomely out of control. Love this team! I am serious. This team over accomplished, given Amile's foot and Jeter's complete lack of contribution.

I sporked Saratoga, but with one caveat. Good Luke is and does those things. Bad Luke does not. I saw bad Luke in person against Wake. He looked like a zombie. However, as I said in the sporkin, next year we will see Consistently Good Luke. He just needs to learn how to work consistently, practice consistently, and play consistently. I have no doubt he will. Too good of a talent not too.

I do think Grayson returns too. Our perimeter will just be sick sick sick. :) Like NCIS Nawlins... "It's gonna be fun":)

But, work remains this year. Banner time. Our guys will not go down without one helluva fight...

TNTDevil
03-05-2016, 09:42 PM
This one didn't hurt too badly because I expected UNC to win, maybe even handily.

They outrebounded Duke by more than 30. They had no significant foul trouble. They had Ingram in foul trouble all game. Duke shot 38% from the field and 60% from the FT line. UNC shot 90% from the FT line. Thornton didn't play well. Kennedy Meeks suddenly figured out how to play.

Yet, Duke only lost by 4.
Word. A lotta folks harping on it but, the rebounds were not the deciding factor. They made the task more difficult, yet we were right there in the end.


If I'm a UNC fan I'm ecstatic I won, but a tiny part of me thinks "how did we not beat them by 20?" And that's enough for me - the fact that they had to sweat it out *again*, especially after that loss in Chapel Hill, and that Duke gutted out another battle and fought to the end.FTs by UNC win this game. They did amazing to close us out, considering that couldn't throw the ball in the ocean from the deck of small boat. A couple of missed FTs and we "steal" another one.


Still amazed how Grayson Allen went to the FT line only twice though. Gets kind of old when he gets hit on drives and doesn't get the calls.It appears to me that if GA is driving the ball, there are to be no whistles unless GA is the one "fouling".

MCFinARL
03-05-2016, 09:44 PM
They're just not that good at the end of the day Pops. I have never seen a team dominate the paint and rebound to that extent, yet have to scrape and hit pressure FT's just to pull out a win? Unreal. Their perimeter players just suck so badly their bigs can barely overcome their ineptness. Marcus Paige has to be the most regressed player I have ever seen stay 4 years. To go from dominant to a non-factor in two years is mind boggling.

But, on to our guys. So proud of these guys. THey just keep fighting no matter how many things are going against them. No Amile, PG so ineffective he gets benched, Ingram misses most of 1st half with 2 fouls and then has to play most of the second with 4 fouls, forcing us to go zone way more than we want, not shooting it really well, not getting calls on drives, not making FT's when a foul is called, and MINUS 35 on the boards, yet, there they are at the end with a chance to pull it out. Amazing heart. Someone mentioned upthread they were happy to just be close... please. Those guys hated losing that game. Grayson was so emotional K had to take him out for that final 1.5. No tears does not equal "Happy to stay close"... Those guys are hurting and spitting mad they let that uncheat team beat them.

I will go into every tourney game believing they will either win or have a chance to win, and fight along beside them till the clock runs out...

I do feel bad for Amile and I feel bad for the rest of the guys that they lost Amile, because I firmly believe that with Amile all year, this team just finished up the Regular Season no worse than 26-5, and as the outright Champions of the ACC Regular Season, headed into next weekend competing for the Tourney Title and a 1 Seed.


Keep fighting guys.

Go Duke!!

Actually, Grayson took himself out, or the refs took him out. He committed his fifth foul at 1.5.

NSDukeFan
03-05-2016, 09:46 PM
Actually, Grayson took himself out, or the refs took him out. He committed his fifth foul at 1.5.

Grayson took himself out as he actually doesn't foul out until he gets his sixth.

uh_no
03-05-2016, 09:49 PM
we were going to get killed on the boards. Ingram getting 2 and sitting killed us. completely different game when he got back out there

also derryk got killed on the high ball screen... he couldn't get around and was forced to switch with plumlee. they got us with that multiple times. he also really needs to not take that 18 footer. he missed it at least twice. tonight he wasn't playing better than Luke so Luke got the time.... and played great. I'm just glad we have both since they both bring slightly different things.

flyingdutchdevil
03-05-2016, 09:50 PM
I sporked Saratoga, but with one caveat. Good Luke is and does those things. Bad Luke does not. I saw bad Luke in person against Wake. He looked like a zombie. However, as I said in the sporkin, next year we will see Consistently Good Luke. He just needs to learn how to work consistently, practice consistently, and play consistently. I have no doubt he will. Too good of a talent not too.

I do think Grayson returns too. Our perimeter will just be sick sick sick. :) Like NCIS Nawlins... "It's gonna be fun":)

But, work remains this year. Banner time. Our guys will not go down without one helluva fight...

Luke's issues are really on the performance end and not the IQ end. Rarely does he take a shot that I say 'what the shiz'. He's really the opposite of Thonrton - smart shots, really slow, ability to change speeds at will (Thornton is literally the complete opposite).

Luke is a player I've come to love. His game will lead to pissing off oppositions players.

And I'll happily put money that Grayson is gone. He's a mid first round pick and his knocks (size, size, size) aren't fixable.

Dukehky
03-05-2016, 09:52 PM
I think that Duke fans as a whole are more proud of this team than Carolina fans have ever or have ever deserved to be of their teams. Great group of kids who play their hearts out for K, each other, and Duke.

Unfortunately, just not enough juice tonight. The two runout layups when we tied it were the nail in the coffin. I would really, really just like to win our first game in the big tourney, and anything after that is kind of gravy to me. Brandon's fouls were fouls in the first half, and 1 was in the second. The other two were horse feces.

As always, Carolina can go to Hell.

Indoor66
03-05-2016, 09:53 PM
unCheat loses in their 2nd game of the next two tourneys.

Dukehky
03-05-2016, 09:54 PM
Luke's issues are really on the performance end and not the IQ end. Rarely does he take a shot that I say 'what the shiz'. He's really the opposite of Thonrton - smart shots, really slow, ability to change speeds at will (Thornton is literally the complete opposite).

Luke is a player I've come to love. His game will lead to pissing off oppositions players.

And I'll happily put money that Grayson is gone. He's a mid first round pick and his knocks (size, size, size) aren't fixable.

Agree, Grayson will be a pro next year. He probably doesn't mesh super well with next year's team and the skill of next year's players will negate his ability to show the pros what he's all about. He also has some chronic knee issues. If he stays, he just loves Duke that much, but he should probably go. I'm proud that he's on my team.

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 09:54 PM
I think that Duke fans as a whole are more proud of this team than Carolina fans have ever or have ever deserved to be of their teams. Great group of kids who play their hearts out for K, each other, and Duke.

Unfortunately, just not enough juice tonight. The two runout layups when we tied it were the nail in the coffin. I would really, really just like to win our first game in the big tourney, and anything after that is kind of gravy to me. Brandon's fouls were fouls in the first half, and 1 was in the second. The other two were horse feces.

As always, Carolina can go to Hell.

I didn't feel like his 2nd foul on Ingram was much of a foul. Barely touched Jackson, had position. Definitely less contact than he gets on his own drives.

shereec
03-05-2016, 09:56 PM
And mike brey can GTH too for rooting for the h**ls tonight.

he is dead to me.

jipops
03-05-2016, 09:58 PM
I do feel bad for Amile and I feel bad for the rest of the guys that they lost Amile, because I firmly believe that with Amile all year, this team just finished up the Regular Season no worse than 26-5, and as the outright Champions of the ACC Regular Season, headed into next weekend competing for the Tourney Title and a 1 Seed.


Keep fighting guys.

Go Duke!!

I agree with you 100%. Losing a team leader, best interior defender, best post player, and by far the best rebounder completely reshaped the makeup of this team. The heels got the acc reg title but only had to beat 2 top 50 teams in the conference to get it. You can't really say they got a break because they won with the path layed out for them. But there is no doubting the conversation is different if Amile doesn't go down in December. I'm sure cheats fans feel this way about 2012.

uh_no
03-05-2016, 10:00 PM
he is dead to me.

but he has a double bye because we lost

tfk53
03-05-2016, 10:01 PM
I have loved the courage and determination these young men have shown this season. Fighting hard to compete game after game (except for a couple). Putting up with the negative press, dealing with the short roster, missing Amile, playing 35-40 minutes a night.
They had ample opportunity to fold multiple times against the heels tonight but they were determined to fight to the end.
This has been an exceedingly fun Duke team to watch the season and I hope our watching time gets extended by 10 more games!
(Which does bring up the question if Duke really wants a 4 game run in the ACCT that may wear them out even more?)

Very proud of this team and to be a Duke fan.

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 10:03 PM
but he has a double bye because we lost

Yeah hard to fault Brey for caring about his job

flyingdutchdevil
03-05-2016, 10:03 PM
Agree, Grayson will be a pro next year. He probably doesn't mesh super well with next year's team and the skill of next year's players will negate his ability to show the pros what he's all about. He also has some chronic knee issues. If he stays, he just loves Duke that much, but he should probably go. I'm proud that he's on my team.

I disagree with the mesh. Grayson is a smart, willing passer. He'll mesh.

His draft position, however, will never be higher. This draft class is soooooooooo bad. Skal is forecasted to be a mid first round pick, which is as egregious as the Daniel Orton pick. Grayson will not be mid first round next year; the class is too strong. But this year? He'll get drafted

wavedukefan70s
03-05-2016, 10:07 PM
A few breaks we win this game.proud of this team.

stingy
03-05-2016, 10:15 PM
Anyone think we should've fouled right away when down 4 with 50 seconds left? Ultimately they missed and it went out of bounds with 25 seconds left and then we had to foul. Would've been nice to have those 25 extra seconds to make them shoot a few more free throws or hit another 3 ourselves. Can't fault the effort at all though.

gurufrisbee
03-05-2016, 10:16 PM
I love watching Grayson. I feel like he either stays for four years or he is gone now. His draft pick is going to be about the same no matter when he goes unless he really shows strong point skill improvement over the next two years. I hope he stays because I always hope every kid stays and gets their education. I think he brings the kind of skill and leadership that would be awesome for next year's team. He could be the Quinn Cook next year.

I don't think this team with their lack of depth and lack of size is a real contender to go all the way. However, we've beaten Virginia, beaten NC, beaten Indiana (the Big Can't Count champion), and nearly beat NC again (despite Ingram being out for a ton with questionable foul trouble). I can't ever count this team out and that is saying a lot and something that you absolutely have to love about these guys. I feel like this might be the best I've ever felt about a loss to NC.

jipops
03-05-2016, 10:19 PM
I disagree with the mesh. Grayson is a smart, willing passer. He'll mesh.

His draft position, however, will never be higher. This draft class is soooooooooo bad. Skal is forecasted to be a mid first round pick, which is as egregious as the Daniel Orton pick. Grayson will not be mid first round next year; the class is too strong. But this year? He'll get drafted

I don't see any way Grayson will be back next year. One reason being what you stated, the draft is very, very weak. He's a late first round pick this year. He's a second round pick next year. I think it's a no brainer.

Another major reason is the garbage level of officiating that has taken place this season. Yet another game for him attempting only 2 fts. Why play for free putting up with that?

Grayson just played his last game in Cameron.

Duke76
03-05-2016, 10:20 PM
Agree, Grayson will be a pro next year. He probably doesn't mesh super well with next year's team and the skill of next year's players will negate his ability to show the pros what he's all about. He also has some chronic knee issues. If he stays, he just loves Duke that much, but he should probably go. I'm proud that he's on my team.

think he stays all 4 years...bet he loves Duke that much. bet he doesn't care about the money that much. could get a second natty with the team they have coming in. besides you don't make that much first 3 years anyway unless you are slotted lottery....he's probably go down as a better college player than pro player cause of his size..haven't heard about chronic knee issues, what makes you think that?

Duke76
03-05-2016, 10:23 PM
I don't see any way Grayson will be back next year. One reason being what you stated, the draft is very, very weak. He's a late first round pick this year. He's a second round pick next year. I think it's a no brainer. Grayson just played his last game in Cameron.

you think Tyson is happy with his decision, bet not...how could he not go. but in hindsight he's wasn't ready and his size may limit him greatly in the nba and will be considered a better college player than pro even with the one year

westwall
03-05-2016, 10:26 PM
Agree, Grayson will be a pro next year. He also has some chronic knee issues.

Chronic knee issues?? Where does this come from? First I recall.

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 10:28 PM
you think Tyson is happy with his decision, bet not...how could he not go. but in hindsight he's wasn't ready and his size may limit him greatly in the nba and will be considered a better college player than pro even with the one year

I guess you mean Tyus.

And I imagine he's happy.

- national championship in college
- drafted into NBA
- playing for a team in his home state
- million dollar salary

devildeac
03-05-2016, 10:29 PM
29-64

20-23/9-15

1-2

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 10:29 PM
Chronic knee issues?? Where does this come from? First I recall.

I recall one knee problem last season. But it never sounded serious.

Kedsy
03-05-2016, 10:30 PM
On the downside, can't imagine a poorer way to end the season. Looking like an early round exit.

March 4, 1990: UNC 87, @Duke 75. Team did not "exit" until the NCAA championship game.

March 5, 1994: UNC 87, @Duke 77. Team did not "exit" until the last minute of the NCAA championship game.

Just sayin'.

dukieox
03-05-2016, 10:31 PM
Anybody else feel like Jones' ankles were really bothering him? Seemed to have no burst and his shot was off all game.

uh_no
03-05-2016, 10:37 PM
March 4, 1990: UNC 87, @Duke 75. Team did not "exit" until the NCAA championship game.

March 5, 1994: UNC 87, @Duke 77. Team did not "exit" until the last minute of the NCAA championship game.

Just sayin'.

did either of those teams have 9 losses? just curious.

jipops
03-05-2016, 10:37 PM
you think Tyson is happy with his decision, bet not...how could he not go. but in hindsight he's wasn't ready and his size may limit him greatly in the nba and will be considered a better college player than pro even with the one year

I think you forget these have to be business decisions for these kids. The guaranteed contract is everything and these kids have to jump on it when their stock is high. I'm sure Tyus doesn't like not playing much. But the prospect of possibly suffering injury (which we see as being a real risk) and not getting draft looks as a result would be way worse.

I would bet on Tyus suffering no regrets.

flyingdutchdevil
03-05-2016, 10:39 PM
think he stays all 4 years...bet he loves Duke that much. bet he doesn't care about the money that much. could get a second natty with the team they have coming in. besides you don't make that much first 3 years anyway unless you are slotted lottery...he's probably go down as a better college player than pro player cause of his size..haven't heard about chronic knee issues, what makes you think that?

No way Grayson cares about the money. I mean, it's only the primary reason most college students go to college in the first place. I think Grayson should pull a Van Wilder, stay in college for 7 years, make no money, and then help out Duke students from the generosity of his heart. Well, at least he'll be sleeping with Tara Reid in her prime.

jipops
03-05-2016, 10:39 PM
did either of those teams have 9 losses? just curious.

No. 1990 had 8 going in.

Duke76
03-05-2016, 10:45 PM
I guess you mean Tyus.

And I imagine he's happy.

- national championship in college
- drafted into NBA
- playing for a team in his home state
- million dollar salary

yea, I meant Tyus,,,guess i was thinking we got punched out..but really he would have been drafted higher probably this year than last still would have made the nba...would have gotten stronger and at the end of the year, how many minutes has he played in the nba in his home town. i contend he would have been happier at Duke, but guess we will never know. but as it relates to Grayson just like Tyus, the NBA is gonna be tough to make it in as a starter with their size...JJ after all these years has made it but I don't think either of these guys unless they improve their foot speed dramatically can make it...too much of a defensive liability, maybe but they got the deck stacked against them in the pros

FerryFor50
03-05-2016, 10:48 PM
yea, I meant Tyus,,,guess i was thinking we got punched out..but really he would have been drafted higher probably this year than last still would have made the nba...would have gotten stronger and at the end of the year, how many minutes has he played in the nba in his home town. i contend he would have been happier at Duke, but guess we will never know. but as it relates to Grayson just like Tyus, the NBA is gonna be tough to make it in as a starter with their size...JJ after all these years has made it but I don't think either of these guys unless they improve their foot speed dramatically can make it...too much of a defensive liability, maybe but they got the deck stacked against them in the pros

Or he goes down with a career ending injury. Or he gets exposed and his stock drops.

Better to take the money and run if that's your goal.

Stray Gator
03-05-2016, 10:58 PM
Yeah hard to fault Brey for caring about his job

Certainly can't fault Mike Brey for wanting an outcome that would secure a double bye for his team. But if our guys can get past the winner of N.C. State-Wake on Wednesday afternoon, we'll have another shot at Notre Dame on Thursday -- and I suspect this team will welcome that opportunity.

Stray Gator
03-05-2016, 11:05 PM
I think that Duke fans as a whole are more proud of this team than Carolina fans have ever or have ever deserved to be of their teams. Great group of kids who play their hearts out for K, each other, and Duke.

Unfortunately, just not enough juice tonight. The two runout layups when we tied it were the nail in the coffin. I would really, really just like to win our first game in the big tourney, and anything after that is kind of gravy to me. Brandon's fouls were fouls in the first half, and 1 was in the second. The other two were horse feces.

As always, Carolina can go to Hell.

I have an immense amount of respect and admiration for this Duke team's heart and guts and intestinal fortitude. To lose the benefit of Ingram's scoring and defense and rebounding for most of the first half, and get outrebounded by a ridiculous 64-29 margin, and have a unnerving number of shots rim out, yet still play hard enough to stay close and make a much deeper and more experienced UNC team sweat out free throws in the last minute to stave off yet another comeback by their depleted and exhausted rivals, is one of the more amazing and inspiring performances I've seen on a basketball court. I know the players are disappointed to fall short, but I'm exceedingly proud of their effort.

jimmymax
03-05-2016, 11:20 PM
Favorite stat: Duke got more minutes from its bench than UNC.

Rebounding margin was absurd. Must have set some kind of (bad) record.

I hope Grayson appreciates the present and thinks beyond maximizing $.

dukelifer
03-05-2016, 11:47 PM
you think Tyson is happy with his decision, bet not...how could he not go. but in hindsight he's wasn't ready and his size may limit him greatly in the nba and will be considered a better college player than pro even with the one year

He is fine. He had 9 tonight and has been getting more comfortable of late. It is up to him to work on his weaknesses. He is a smart kid and could make it work.

MCFinARL
03-05-2016, 11:59 PM
Grayson took himself out as he actually doesn't foul out until he gets his sixth.

Say what? Is he already playing in the NBA?

jipops
03-06-2016, 12:07 AM
If there is one concerning aspect to this team, it's the plummeting offensive efficiency. This was the 3rd straight game where we shot less than 40%. For a team that is not going to be known for its defense, this seems like trouble. I truly believe these guys are gassed. To me they looked tired 5 minutes in.

Also makes it all the more bewildering that we were somehow in this thing.

Kedsy
03-06-2016, 12:51 AM
did either of those teams have 9 losses? just curious.

1990 had 9 losses, including the loss in the championship game. As jipops said, that team had 8 losses going into the NCAA tournament, and to be completely apples-to-apples that team had 7 losses going into the ACC tournament. Still, not all that different.

The 1994 team had only 5 losses going into the NCAAT (4 losses going into the ACCT, and 6 altogether).

Steven43
03-06-2016, 01:13 AM
Allen is an emotional wreck, in both a good and bad way.
What do you mean? Please explain.

Steven43
03-06-2016, 01:26 AM
Agree, Grayson will be a pro next year. He also has some chronic knee issues..
Wow, that is kind of shocking. Had not heard one mention of this. What's the story on G's knees?

TruBlu
03-06-2016, 06:45 AM
Certainly can't fault Mike Brey for wanting an outcome that would secure a double bye for his team. But if our guys can get past the winner of N.C. State-Wake on Wednesday afternoon, we'll have another shot at Notre Dame on Thursday -- and I suspect this team will welcome that opportunity.

Agree with not faulting him for wanting the double bye.

I do fault him for even having a unc baseball hat to put on.

If someone ever gives you a unc hat as a gag gift, it should only be used if you are immediately painting a ceiling, or walking through an area heavily populated by pigeons. Otherwise, it should be burnt immediately.

lotusland
03-06-2016, 07:08 AM
If there is one concerning aspect to this team, it's the plummeting offensive efficiency. This was the 3rd straight game where we shot less than 40%. For a team that is not going to be known for its defense, this seems like trouble. I truly believe these guys are gassed. To me they looked tired 5 minutes in.

Also makes it all the more bewildering that we were somehow in this thing.

Yeah it's the wrong time to be trending that direction on offense.

lotusland
03-06-2016, 07:14 AM
We'll need DT on Cat if State beats Wake. Luke is going to have a great career but his shooting is wildly inconsistent. Matchups and Luke's shooting will most likely continue to be the deciding factors for PT with Luke and DT.

DUKIE V(A)
03-06-2016, 07:53 AM
Extremely proud of the effort. A little better shooting or rebounding gets it done, but the effort was brilliant. For the first half of the first half, almost all our shots were long suggesting that we were emotionally hyped up. Can't fault em if that was the case. I thought our guys made a nice adjustment and seemed to shoot better afterwards.

Getting past Wake or State and then Notre Dame will be a chore, but Carolina wants no part of Duke a third time. Our legs may be tired, but Duke is better coached and in Allen, Kennard, and Ingram will have
the three most dynamic offensive players on the floor. Plus, I suspect UNC will pucker a bit if they get past Syracuse or Pitt.

A few comments on Grayson: What a warrior! He has become my favorite player on this team. Who knows what he will do after this year, but I am sure Coach K will find a way to make it work if Grayson blesses him/us with a third and/or fourth year. His spirit and fight is strong as any player's in recent memory. He will; however, need to learn to make better choices down the stretch without taking away his aggression. No easy task. Since the second tripping incident, officials have been swallowing their whistles when he drives to the basket. He may need to drive and dish more and will certainly need to finish strong in order to have even a remote chance to get a call. When he does not get a call, I'd love to see him take on a "next play" mentality. Expect the no call (cuz that's what's likely coming) and keep playing hard.

I am excited to see what we can do in the next two tournaments.

Saratoga2
03-06-2016, 08:03 AM
MTM or Zone(s)

We were more effective defensively for the last part of the season when we played MTM but the early foul trouble of Brandon eliminated that option for coach K. The 2/3 zone gave UNC some trouble (see 14 TO's vs our 6) but they figured it out and really had two bigs inside against Marshall. They had a field day rebounding and we couldn't do a lot about it. When Brandon returned, we came closer to holding our own on the boards but Marshall is slower off his feet than the Brice so we had a double whammy to deal with. Marshall did use his size effectively to alter shots, even with UNC jumping into him to try to get him into foul trouble. The refs weren't buying it so UNC was missing a lot of shots inside, but they got so many rebounds that they scored despite missing three times in a row. I mentioned it earlier but both Marshall and Brandon tapped balls out rather than grabbing them for rebounds. Every time that happened it seemed we turned the ball over.

As far as Luke is concerned, he was far the more effective player today than either Matt or Derryck, who both had off games. In the Wake game he hardly had the PT to show what he could do. I personally hope the coaches stick with him throughout the tourneys as the combination of Grayson, Brandon and Luke form an extremely difficult trio to guard.

wavedukefan70s
03-06-2016, 08:08 AM
Lord have mercy.its about 8 am .im already hearing how grayson tripped brice johnson on purpose. Also the ingram elbow.i believe the unc crowd cant handle the fact that duke even in a off year isnt a pushover.i don't get it.

I hope both G.A and ingram come back .i doubt it though.
This team is a very good team.they play to thier strengths better than a lot of other teams.if we get the right matchups we could do some damage come tournament time.

slower
03-06-2016, 08:20 AM
The kid is already a legend. I'd love nothing more than having him for 4 years. But if the refs are gonna continue to swallow their whistles, he needs to move on before he gets injured. He doesn't owe anybody ANYTHING more than he's already given, which is considerable.

Kishiznit
03-06-2016, 08:45 AM
The kid is already a legend. I'd love nothing more than having him for 4 years. But if the refs are gonna continue to swallow their whistles, he needs to move on before he gets injured. He doesn't owe anybody ANYTHING more than he's already given, which is considerable.

Exactly. Opposing players have a sense of entitlement when they guard him physically. I don't want him injured. He forced it on a couple of possessions last night right after the game was tied. However, the easy lay up by Berry was a result of the no-call foul by Meeks guarding Grayson on the drive. Interesting that ESPN showed a replay on the questionable call he got on the Hicks (I believe) block but not one replay on the swallowed whistles.

Furniture
03-06-2016, 08:46 AM
We had 6 TO to their 14. We had 10 steals to their 5. There has to be some good defense in those numbers.

Matt shot 1 for 7 on 3's. If only….
If only played Brandon would have played his usual 40 mins UNC would probably had several rebounds less.
Marshall FT's were 1 for 5. Isn't he normally 60%?…If only.
Brandon shot 1 for 5 on 3's….If only.
As others had said Grayson went to the FT line once (##**!!WTF). If only.
UNC were 20 for 23 on FT's (where did that come from?)..If only.

So….

With a bump less here and a little more roll there we could have won……..

Saratoga2
03-06-2016, 08:55 AM
We had 6 TO to their 14. We had 10 steals to their 5. There has to be some good defense in those numbers.

Matt shot 1 for 7 on 3's. If only….
If only played Brandon would have played his usual 40 mins UNC would probably had several rebounds less.
Marshall FT's were 1 for 5. Isn't he normally 60%?…If only.
Brandon shot 1 for 5 on 3's….If only.
As others had said Grayson went to the FT line once (##**!!WTF). If only.
UNC were 20 for 23 on FT's (where did that come from?)..If only.

So….

With a bump less here and a little more roll there we could have won……..
Matt had 0 rebounds in 36 minutes (Grayson 4 and Luke 3 in comparable minutes)

gumbomoop
03-06-2016, 09:42 AM
As far as Luke is concerned, he was far the more effective player today than either Matt or Derryck, who both had off games. In the Wake game he hardly had the PT to show what he could do. I personally hope the coaches stick with him throughout the tourneys as the combination of Grayson, Brandon and Luke form an extremely difficult trio to guard.

Amen to this. It appears that Matt may be slowed a bit by a nagging injury, but both his D and 3-pt. shooting are clear strengths. Derryck is pretty inconsistent, looking confident some games, unsteady in others. It may well just depend on which of Luke and Derryck plays better the first 10 minutes, but like Saratoga2 I hope the coaches give Luke some leeway early.

It's fine for Derryck and Matt to bring the ball into the frontcourt, but it's Luke who has the PG-like skills, not to mention a wider variety of O-threats. Matt has to play big minutes because of his D, though it appears to me that Luke is no slouch on D, either. He fights through screens, intercepts lazy passes, is a willing rebounder, and at least once a game tries to surprise-steal the opponent's inbounds pass after a Duke basket.

If Derryck's having a good game early, that's all to the good, and he does sometimes surprise (the opponent and me) with a clever, difficult, lefty layup through traffic. But even then, I'd prefer it not be Derryck or Luke, but both together for some (few?) minutes to rest Matt, and even Grayson and Brandon.

For the ACCT, we need the "full" 6.5 rotation.

martydoesntfoul
03-06-2016, 10:21 AM
Apologies if this has been addressed, but what did I miss re: the foul on Grayson with Johnson draped all over his back? It looked like a ludicrous call from my vantage point.

Henderson
03-06-2016, 10:21 AM
Extremely proud of the effort. A little better shooting or rebounding gets it done, but the effort was brilliant.

Agree completely, especially with the rebounding. The numbers tell the tale there.

IOW, we were one Amile Jefferson short of a win.

Furniture
03-06-2016, 10:27 AM
Apologies if this has been addressed, but what did I miss re: the foul on Grayson with Johnson draped all over his back? It looked like a ludicrous call from my vantage point.

I was watching with a UNC friend and even he said that was ridiculous!

Bob Green
03-06-2016, 10:40 AM
Also the ingram elbow.

The Ingram elbow was certainly inadvertent but watching the replay several times made it obvious the Carolina player did not foul Ingram. The refs blew that call.

uh_no
03-06-2016, 10:46 AM
I was watching with a UNC friend and even he said that was ridiculous!

they made the same call against UNC later in the game on whwat I thought was a clear OTB on marshall. So at least they realized it was ridiculous too.

Not sure I've ever seen that called.

kAzE
03-06-2016, 11:11 AM
Interesting mini-blog from CL Brown during the game: "Had a NBA scout earlier in the week say he believed Luke Kennard may be a better pro than Grayson Allen. In addition to being a knockdown shooter from outside, Kennard has more of a mid-range game right now. That's something Allen is still working on developing."

This echoes my thoughts as well. Grayson will have a much harder time bullying opponents with his strength and athleticism at the next level. I think Luke might actually develop into a better player because of his high level of finesse. His mid range game, ability to hit shots off the dribble, and overall awareness translates well to the NBA game. Grayson does have one advantage in that he's got the killer instinct and hyper competitive streak that made guys like Kobe, MJ, and Larry Bird the special (and sometimes unpleasant) players that they were. I hope they are both back for next year, but it would be wise for Grayson to cash in after this season. Thankfully, Luke still has a ways to go before his draft stock caps out (unless he goes supernova in the NCAAT).

Dukehky
03-06-2016, 12:17 PM
Apologies if this has been addressed, but what did I miss re: the foul on Grayson with Johnson draped all over his back? It looked like a ludicrous call from my vantage point.

I think that to get an over the back call after you box out you have to make an effort at the ball. I've seen that called and had that called on me. If you're boxing out and you want an over the back you have to go for the ball, and if they jump straight up and you just keep boxing, then it's a foul. Tough call to swallow, and a tough call to make, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason. I was pissed last night at that call as well, but I actually understood that one I think.

AZLA
03-06-2016, 12:39 PM
Anybody else feel like Jones' ankles were really bothering him? Seemed to have no burst and his shot was off all game.

Yes. He's not a 100% and didn't seem to have a quick first step to break on balls or get back to stop the break. Seemed to affect his lateral quickness too and at one point in the game he couldn't get into position to block out but rather tried to reach and hold the UNC player whom still got the put back.

weezie
03-06-2016, 12:45 PM
One recurring memory, when we tied it up late, it was as if a nuclear mushroom cloud of sound exploded. No wonder ol'huck called a time out. I think I might have seen him reach under his seat for a barf bag before he stood up.

It was absolutely raining toxic sound in dear, wonderful Cameron.

NYBri
03-06-2016, 12:46 PM
Grayson's game, or shall I say reckless abandon, suits the NCAA game much better than the NBA game. If he takes that head-down-I'm-going-to-the-rack-at-all-costs game to the pros, he won't last a week. Those guys in the middle are serious about sending messages and they won't hesitate in delivering one to the hated Dukie.

I know I've kidded that he needs two more years at Duke, but seriously, he does need to develop some NBA skills if he wants a career. Mid-range jumper and a deadly spot up three will serve him well...and I think another year or two will allow him to do that.

AZLA
03-06-2016, 12:55 PM
I think that to get an over the back call after you box out you have to make an effort at the ball. I've seen that called and had that called on me. If you're boxing out and you want an over the back you have to go for the ball, and if they jump straight up and you just keep boxing, then it's a foul. Tough call to swallow, and a tough call to make, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason. I was pissed last night at that call as well, but I actually understood that one I think.

This isn't meant as a criticism, and I think we can all agree that GA is going to be a legendary player at Duke, but his reactions to refs missing calls or making the wrong calls is growing increasingly more openly reactive. And so pointing to the replay board continuously and demonstratively in front of the refs to passively argue a call is not only futile (they're not going to reverse it), it's also just not sportsmanlike (unless we're talking NBA) to figuratively lecture or show up a ref pointing to the board (no matter how bad the call). GA does take a heck of a lot of contact and holding, but he dishes it out too -- driving and forcing contact is an essential part of his game. Slap your hands or yell to yourself. But when he foul is called suck it up and go to the blocks. Let the coach handle the refs.

weezie
03-06-2016, 12:57 PM
Yeah, but Grayson did have a very toothy chuckly convo with the ref as the time out expired.

Sweet and touching, actually. All smiles, all around. Best of pals.

sagegrouse
03-06-2016, 12:58 PM
Grayson's game, or shall I say reckless abandon, suits the NCAA game much better than the NBA game. If he takes that head-down-I'm-going-to-the-rack-at-all-costs game to the pros, he won't last a week. Those guys in the middle are serious about sending messages and they won't hesitate in delivering one to the hated Dukie.

I know I've kidded that he needs two more years at Duke, but seriously, he does need to develop some NBA skills if he wants a career. Mid-range jumper and a deadly spot up three will serve him well...and I think another year or two will allow him to do that.

The NBA has had freedom-of-movement rules for about ten years, so I am only moderately worried for Grayson's health. The new rules are one reason that Steph Curry is the best player on the planet. But, I agree, acrobatic drives will get swatted by the secondary defender -- the NBA guys are really mobile.

I think Grayson's physical strength is well-suited to the NBA. He is strong now at age 20, and in 5-7 years will be twice as strong. But his growing strength is one reason I think he could use another year in college.

K's message to Grayson about another year is -- (a) Get stronger; (b) Work on your skills in these areas (a., b., c....); (c) Stay three years and leave with a degree and your jersey on the ceiling of Cameron. OK -- I'm sold. I wonder about Grayson.

rsvman
03-06-2016, 01:35 PM
Another good game, except that the wrong team won.


Similar to the Clemson game, I think the end of the first half was not only a microcosm of the problem, but also one of the main reasons we didn't end up pulling out another close win like we did when we played them at the Dump on the Hump.

Down 6, Carolina ball, guaranteed to be time left on the clock after the UNC possession. We actually played good D through the whole possession and forced a miss, but then allowed Pinson to tap it right back in, putting us down 8. Grayson then tries an isolation play on the other end that ended with a very poor shot, and we're down 8.

Imagine if we get the rebound on the Carolina miss, and then actually work the offense and get a deuce to fall. We would've gone into halftime only down 4 and with some momentum on our side. Could well have changed the game.

Other unfortunate moments that stood out for me: 1) Grayson driving the lane, getting stripped, leading to an uncontested layup on the other side; 2) Brandon attempting to pass the ball to the corner but throwing it right to Jackson (maybe?) instead. Still, had we been able to make free throws and had we shot a little better at the beginning of the second half, we had a good chance to come away victorious. And this against a purported 1 seed.

Oh, one other thing. It seems that Marshall remembered that he's a terrible free throw shooter. I liked it better when he forgot.:cool:

BandAlum83
03-06-2016, 01:40 PM
unCheat loses in their 2nd game of the next two tourneys.

Against us, or ND in the semis of the ACCT?

DukeDevil
03-06-2016, 04:16 PM
To respond to a few people upthread who mentioned certain replays being shown that were (so simplify it) confirming good calls against duke or bad calls for us vs not showing other calls that seemed to go Carolina's way, I bring up one thing that caught my attention.

There was the time the replay booth fired up a shot of Grayson's foot over the half court line when it wasn't a true back court violation. I commend Bilas for pointing that out immediately, but I thought it was interesting it was fired up as a replay in the first play, almost like someone in the booth had a "ha! gotcha!" moment. It just really rubbed me the wrong way.

Otherwise, I want to say that, as much as I don't like losing to Carolina, this really didn't have a lot of sting to it as I was really impressed and proud of the fight Duke put into this game. They left it all out there. 5 minutes in I thought we were going to get blown out but they just kept making plays and hanging on.

Finally, TruBlu, if someone offers you a UNC cap and there are pigeons flying around, I'd rather take the possibility of getting pigeon poop on my head that the guarantee of having poop on my head with that cap.

dukelifer
03-06-2016, 04:24 PM
Grayson's game, or shall I say reckless abandon, suits the NCAA game much better than the NBA game. If he takes that head-down-I'm-going-to-the-rack-at-all-costs game to the pros, he won't last a week. Those guys in the middle are serious about sending messages and they won't hesitate in delivering one to the hated Dukie.

I know I've kidded that he needs two more years at Duke, but seriously, he does need to develop some NBA skills if he wants a career. Mid-range jumper and a deadly spot up three will serve him well...and I think another year or two will allow him to do that.

As JJ and Lance have shown- you can tune your game as a pro. No one will expect Grayson to be an NBA starter from day 1 but perhaps a solid second unit guy. He could even have a CJ McCollum type of career but much depends on how hard he works. If he improves his handle and commits to defense- he has the tools to make it.

BluePanda
03-06-2016, 04:40 PM
As JJ and Lance have shown- you can tune your game as a pro. No one will expect Grayson to be an NBA starter from day 1 but perhaps a solid second unit guy. He could even have a CJ McCollum type of career but much depends on how hard he works. If he improves his handle and commits to defense- he has the tools to make it.

Agree entirely with this. You can become a better NBA player while in the NBA than in college - your sole job for the entire year will be to get better and will be facilitated by NBA coaches and trainers. The only consideration for Grayson should be if he's a first rounder, which is made easier this year by the rule changes.

cspan37421
03-06-2016, 04:48 PM
There was the time the replay booth fired up a shot of Grayson's foot over the half court line when it wasn't a true back court violation. I commend Bilas for pointing that out immediately, but I thought it was interesting it was fired up as a replay in the first play, almost like someone in the booth had a "ha! gotcha!" moment. It just really rubbed me the wrong way.


Yeah, don't you wonder if you had someone less sharp doing the game - might they have made a false claim about the rule? From a PR perspective we dodged a bullet there. I bet your instinct is right, too - someone in the truck mistakenly thought they caught rule violation by Duke - and Grayson in particular - that the refs missed. A twofer!

Saratoga2
03-06-2016, 06:30 PM
As JJ and Lance have shown- you can tune your game as a pro. No one will expect Grayson to be an NBA starter from day 1 but perhaps a solid second unit guy. He could even have a CJ McCollum type of career but much depends on how hard he works. If he improves his handle and commits to defense- he has the tools to make it.

Right now Grayson's game reminds me of Dellavadova of the Cavs. Grayson appears more athletic but both play very aggressively. Grayson can handle and shoots well and can become a good and tenacious defender at the pro level. Hope he stays at Duke but I think some team will try to get him perhaps in the second round.

Henderson
03-06-2016, 06:32 PM
I almost always look at the post-game pressers, win or lose, for both teams' coaches. I also watch a lot of Roy post-game press conferences from other games, because frankly it's better than a cartoon show sometimes. You just never know, and I hate to miss an episode.

So 2 or three times a year I get to watch Roy and K back to back. Including after this game. Here's what strikes me:

Coach K's range of approach is pretty controlled. There's a variety in tone sometimes. His face gets red and his words are clipped when he thinks there was an issue in the game (refs, players, etc.). But it's pretty even-keeled. Lot's of appreciation for opposing players and coaches, including some compliments of players that you just KNOW make their day, despite any rivalries ("Hey check out what Coach K said about me."). And honest (and pretty detailed) game analysis. To the extent he's testy with reporter questions, he's pretty uniformly so. He doesn't go all Boeheim. And he never looks dispirited.

Roy's approach suggests a need for therapy. Last night he wore a normal coach costume. Good solid comments, answering questions energetically, etc.

But in losses, Roy shows up looking like Deputy Dog upon realizing he's been neutered. I'm kind of addicted to it for its comedic value. The hang dog look, the negative comments about his team and himself, and the sense of woe are threads through his post-loss pressers.

That kind of over-investment in results can take a toll. After years of illustrious coaching, he needs to step away for his health. Coach K is good where he is.

Duke76
03-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Right now Grayson's game reminds me of Dellavadova of the Cavs. Grayson appears more athletic but both play very aggressively. Grayson can handle and shoots well and can become a good and tenacious defender at the pro level. Hope he stays at Duke but I think some team will try to get him perhaps in the second round.

this is what I mean...unless you are a lottery pick, other than getting hurt your risk reward of staying improves by staying...meaning your odds of improving in the eyes of pro scouts suggests it would be better to stay. Grayson in all probability would substantially improve his position from a second round or even high 1st round...his probability of picking up a 2nd Natty would be high...how many Duke guys have that..just a few. It will be interesting to see his thinking

MartyClark
03-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Right now Grayson's game reminds me of Dellavadova of the Cavs. Grayson appears more athletic but both play very aggressively. Grayson can handle and shoots well and can become a good and tenacious defender at the pro level. Hope he stays at Duke but I think some team will try to get him perhaps in the second round.

FWIW, Draft Express has Grayson at #29 in the first round, one place ahead of Brice Johnson.

sagegrouse
03-06-2016, 10:21 PM
FWIW, Draft Express has Grayson at #29 in the first round, one place ahead of Brice Johnson.

Oops! Being #29 in the first round is two steps away from being #31 - the first place in the second round and no guaranteed contract.

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-06-2016, 10:44 PM
Oops! Being #29 in the first round is two steps away from being #31 - the first place in the second round and no guaranteed contract.
Yeah, haven't seen him ranked higher than 19 by any of the major mock drafts. Maybe I missed stronger projections somewhere. But I am surprised by how much "Grayson is gone" buy-in there seems to be around here right now.

Zeb
03-06-2016, 10:59 PM
But I am surprised by how much "Grayson is gone" buy-in there seems to be around here right now.

Not surprising to me. With 2016 being viewed as a really weak draft, and Grayson playing at all-ACC level this year, I can't see his stock getting too much higher next year. I certainly hope he stays, but it would seem to me that entering this year would make a lot of sense for him.

jv001
03-07-2016, 07:34 AM
Yeah, haven't seen him ranked higher than 19 by any of the major mock drafts. Maybe I missed stronger projections somewhere. But I am surprised by how much "Grayson is gone" buy-in there seems to be around here right now.

I'm more surprised how posters are taking little snippy shots at both Grayson and Luke. It seems fans of both players are quick to point out the flaws in one or the other player, based on who they like the best. Both players are very good and should only get better and I'm going to enjoy both while they are at Duke University. GoDuke!

AtlDuke72
03-07-2016, 08:36 AM
We had 6 TO to their 14. We had 10 steals to their 5. There has to be some good defense in those numbers.

Matt shot 1 for 7 on 3's. If only….
If only played Brandon would have played his usual 40 mins UNC would probably had several rebounds less.
Marshall FT's were 1 for 5. Isn't he normally 60%?…If only.
Brandon shot 1 for 5 on 3's….If only.
As others had said Grayson went to the FT line once (##**!!WTF). If only.
UNC were 20 for 23 on FT's (where did that come from?)..If only.

So….

With a bump less here and a little more roll there we could have won……..

All good points . If the Devils made two more of the wide open shots they probably would have won. The lack of any attempt to box out the bigger Heels is what struck me. There is no way that a team should ever get out rebounded by 35 or so. Watch the replay and you will see that when the ball went up, the Duke players with the exception of Plumlee, just turned and went for the ball without almost no effort to box out. The bigger player will get the ball almost everytime when this happens.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-07-2016, 08:42 AM
All good points . If the Devils made two more of the wide open shots they probably would have won. The lack of any attempt to box out the bigger Heels is what struck me. There is no way that a team should ever get out rebounded by 35 or so. Watch the replay and you will see that when the ball went up, the Duke players with the exception of Plumlee, just turned and went for the ball without almost no effort to box out. The bigger player will get the ball almost everytime when this happens.

Unless, the strategy was "don't let them get out on the break." With a disparity THAT large, one has to wonder if maybe the idea was "we have to hit shots to win, and we won't win the rebounding battle. Let's have MP3 and/or Ingram (who was in foul trouble) crash the glass, everyone else get back on D to prevent the fast break."

To be fair, this is completely revisionist history - I don't recall seeing this in real time. I just have great difficulty imagining how else you get out-rebounded by 30+ in a competitive game.

azzefkram
03-07-2016, 08:56 AM
Unless, the strategy was "don't let them get out on the break." With a disparity THAT large, one has to wonder if maybe the idea was "we have to hit shots to win, and we won't win the rebounding battle. Let's have MP3 and/or Ingram (who was in foul trouble) crash the glass, everyone else get back on D to prevent the fast break."

To be fair, this is completely revisionist history - I don't recall seeing this in real time. I just have great difficulty imagining how else you get out-rebounded by 30+ in a competitive game.

That seemed like the case on the offensive end, and is probably a really good strategy against a team that likes to run the break, but that doesn't explain the lack of blocking out on the defensive end. The heels grabbed more than half of their misses.

Henderson
03-07-2016, 09:05 AM
K's message to Grayson about another year is -- (a) Get stronger; (b) Work on your skills in these areas (a., b., c...); (c) Stay three years and leave with a degree and your jersey on the ceiling of Cameron. OK -- I'm sold. I wonder about Grayson.

I agree with sagegrouse on this. (Except for the retired jersey thing; that's never part of a discussion.) But Grayson can add 10-15 lbs of muscle in the next year, and next year he'd be a preseason favorite for POY, 1st Team AA, and a shot at another natty. Despite the projected strength of the draft next year, he could still be drafted higher next year than this, because he'd be more "NBA ready" and because there would likely be a buzz around him.

It's his life and his career of course, but I don't subscribe to the view that this is necessarily his year to go, unless he's projected top half of the first round. I don't think he'd be smart to take a chance on a second-round pick this year.

Henderson
03-07-2016, 09:32 AM
Yeah, but Grayson did have a very toothy chuckly convo with the ref as the time out expired.

Sweet and touching, actually. All smiles, all around. Best of pals.

I had to pull up that part of the replay to see it, but you are absolutely right. I think the refs know what's going on with Grayson. Coach K remarked after the FSU game that the ref (who was right there for the "trip") had seen what had gone on before, didn't call a foul on Grayson, and had more the attitude: "You two get out of here."

Coach K also made the observation after the UNC-CH game that Grayson had 29 pts. and shot only two foul shots all game. I'll add what Coach K did not: Grayson was called for 5 fouls. OK, point made. Now that we have that over with, I think GA's probation with the officials is over.

dyedwab
03-07-2016, 10:36 AM
Unless, the strategy was "don't let them get out on the break." With a disparity THAT large, one has to wonder if maybe the idea was "we have to hit shots to win, and we won't win the rebounding battle. Let's have MP3 and/or Ingram (who was in foul trouble) crash the glass, everyone else get back on D to prevent the fast break."

To be fair, this is completely revisionist history - I don't recall seeing this in real time. I just have great difficulty imagining how else you get out-rebounded by 30+ in a competitive game.


From my perspective, I thought this was the strategy. I mean, we still shouldn't have gotten as killed on the boards as we were, but it did look to me like the most important strategic thing we did was try and prevent easy transition baskets, which I thought worked well.

What that doesn't explain is our failure on the defensive boards....

PackMan97
03-07-2016, 10:41 AM
lost to Carolina in football...split with them in Basketball...

./smh

You guys need to do better or I'm outta here! Remember, your sole purpose is to stick it to Carolina!

NSDukeFan
03-07-2016, 11:24 AM
That seemed like the case on the offensive end, and is probably a really good strategy against a team that likes to run the break, but that doesn't explain the lack of blocking out on the defensive end. The heels grabbed more than half of their misses.

Perhaps a rope-a-dope strategy? We'll make them shoot and rebound a whole bunch to tire them out then beat them at the end when they're tired? 😉 Oops, they're the one with depth and a coach that likes equal playing time.

devildeac
03-07-2016, 11:39 AM
lost to Carolina in football...split with them in Basketball...

./smh

You guys need to do better or I'm outta here! Remember, your sole purpose is to stick it to Carolina!

Youze guys could help a bit more often...

:rolleyes:;)

moonpie23
03-07-2016, 12:38 PM
the after game tenesmus on franklin street was amazing...

they acted like it was the biggest win since the stolen 1009 natty.....

Nugget
03-07-2016, 01:55 PM
the after game tenesmus on franklin street was amazing...

they acted like it was the biggest win since the stolen 1009 natty....

I assume a young William The Conqueror was serving the beer in Chapel Hill for the 1009 celebration?

cspan37421
03-07-2016, 02:04 PM
I assume a young William The Conqueror was serving the beer in Chapel Hill for the 1009 celebration?

A bit too young for William. More likely Æthelred the Unready, no doubt referring to his refusal to call time out when the Danes were invading.

Matches
03-07-2016, 02:06 PM
Oh great now they'll hang a banner for the "1009 National Championship" too.....

jimsumner
03-07-2016, 02:33 PM
Oh great now they'll hang a banner for the "1009 National Championship" too....

Don't forget that they also were the pre-season 1010 national champs.

BD80
03-07-2016, 03:59 PM
A bit too young for William. More likely Æthelred the Unready, no doubt referring to his refusal to call time out when the Danes were invading.

He called the assistant coach "hun," because he was one!

This was before "paper" classes. I'm pretty sure everything was "pass/fail" back then.

dukelifer
03-07-2016, 04:08 PM
Oh great now they'll hang a banner for the "1009 National Championship" too....

I heard that the NCAA is still looking into this- something about offering a horse to a recruit's family. They hope to wrap up the investigation in a year or two.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-07-2016, 04:12 PM
He called the assistant coach "hun," because he was one!

This was before "paper" classes. I'm pretty sure everything was "pass/fail" back then.

Papyrus classes?

flyingdutchdevil
03-07-2016, 04:34 PM
I heard that the NCAA is still looking into this- something about offering a horse to a recruit's family. They hope to wrap up the investigation in a year or two.

I also heard that the recruit threw his bow and arrow when riding the horse as the Varangian guard closed in.

cspan37421
03-07-2016, 07:01 PM
Papyrus classes?

Well ... um ... probably vellum.

Ultrarunner
03-07-2016, 08:34 PM
He called the assistant coach "hun," because he was one!

This was before "paper" classes. I'm pretty sure everything was "pass/fail" back then.

More like "pass/flail" - a habit carried over to their public relations efforts and response to the NCAA.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-07-2016, 10:18 PM
On the road and only got to listen to the game while driving...finally got to see it on watchespn...

The Heels finally closed out a tough game and earned the ACC regular season championship outright. You guys don't have to like them, but you should respect what they accomplished this season. I hope this big win gives them that relaxed swagger and confidence a team needs to really start playing well in March.

At Cameron, they played with composure, focus and energy in a high pressure setting. Roy had them prepared and motivated. They played like winners. I never saw any panic when Duke made a run. While they didn't play to their ceiling, not even close, they still had enough to beat a gutty and good Duke team on the road.

Roy's teams have now won 7 ACC regular season championships since he came to UNC, arguably the toughest title in the conference. The man can coach, despite fans who want to deny it and second guess his decisions and style.

The one interesting thing for me is I have only been satisfied with how they've played one game this season. The Maryland win.

Every other game, win or lose, some aspect wasn't firing on all cylinders...shooting, TO's, foul shots, rebounding...they only put it all together in one game...the MD win.

Depth is the key to this team. Each player brings in a specific skill set that Roy can use in match up situations to their advantage. His season long devotion to playing deep in the bench has paid off on he's getting contributions from many areas. No matter who is on the floor, they at least now look comfortable and can match up at a high level with anyone, any style.

They've managed to find a way to win most games...somehow...even when not playing their best, and that's the mark of a good team.

The confidence from this win could put them over the top and really get them going...bad luck for everybody else if that happens.

Newton_14
03-07-2016, 11:22 PM
On the road and only got to listen to the game while driving...finally got to see it on watchespn...

The Heels finally closed out a tough game and earned the ACC regular season championship outright. You guys don't have to like them, but you should respect what they accomplished this season. I hope this big win gives them that relaxed swagger and confidence a team needs to really start playing well in March.

At Cameron, they played with composure, focus and energy in a high pressure setting. Roy had them prepared and motivated. They played like winners. I never saw any panic when Duke made a run. While they didn't play to their ceiling, not even close, they still had enough to beat a gutty and good Duke team on the road.

Roy's teams have now won 7 ACC regular season championships since he came to UNC, arguably the toughest title in the conference. The man can coach, despite fans who want to deny it and second guess his decisions and style.

The one interesting thing for me is I have only been satisfied with how they've played one game this season. The Maryland win.

Every other game, win or lose, some aspect wasn't firing on all cylinders...shooting, TO's, foul shots, rebounding...they only put it all together in one game...the MD win.

Depth is the key to this team. Each player brings in a specific skill set that Roy can use in match up situations to their advantage. His season long devotion to playing deep in the bench has paid off on he's getting contributions from many areas. No matter who is on the floor, they at least now look comfortable and can match up at a high level with anyone, any style.

They've managed to find a way to win most games...somehow...even when not playing their best, and that's the mark of a good team.

The confidence from this win could put them over the top and really get them going...bad luck for everybody else if that happens.

I think that "ceiling" dream, you keep bringing up, is just that, a dream. They finished first in the regular season in an unbalanced league, off the back of beating up the bottom half of the conference, and even there, struggled in most of those games, almost losing to 0-18 Boston College. Your backcourt is very below average, which is why you have no shot at a National Title. Brice is a great player, and the rest are very average. Experienced, is their strong suit. They have a lot of experienced players (Jrs/Srs), and a front line (mainly Brice) capable of overwhelming opponent front lines at times, and winning the front line battle just about every game. But the Achilles Heel, pun intended, is a very below average perimeter. On the rare occasion that make a lot of 3's, they blow teams out. (Miami at Home. Note too, Miami was a terrible road team, getting blown out at NC State, and VaTech, and Maryland is just a mess).

unc had a losing record against the top half of the conference. Go back and look at their conference schedule to see who they beat and who they lost to. It's glaring. That they needed pressure FT's in the final 15 seconds of a game where they out rebounded the opponent by 35 rebounds is very telling. The win at Duke was also the only time this season they were able to get a big win against a good team, in a non-home game, and that was against a team missing its best big man, and with 6 players that are absolutely gassed from having to play so many minutes against a rugged schedule down the stretch. A fresher Duke team wins, and a Duke team with a healthy Amile all season, wins going away.

I will be surprised if unc wins the ACC Championship, and will be shocked/blown away if they reach the Final Four, let alone win the National Title. How far they go will depend solely on matchups, and how far the front line can carry them with no help from the perimeter. If/when they face a team with good/great guards and a decent frontline that can defend the paint, they will have a very hard time winning, and most likely won't.

Marcus Paige has regressed so far he reminds me of Ricky Price, and Justin Jackson is no where near the player I expected him to be at this point after watching him his final year of High School where he looked like a High Impact Player. His growth has been stunted by being in the wrong system. (As has Hicks for that matter. Hicks grew up near me so I know what he is capable of).

So congrats on finishing first in the Regular Season. Enjoy it. I suspect it will the last time to celebrate a title of any kind for a long, long time, unless they can pull it off this weekend.

Not sour grapes. Our guys fought like crazy but were just too worn down, and it showed in the shooting percentages from the floor, as well as at the Foul Line, where they left critical points on the table. I also think it likely that ol roy was told in no uncertain terms that Luke Maye, and Joel James not leave the bench in this game. That alone may have been the difference in a 4 point game.

Just keeping it real in what I think is a very fair an accurate assessment of where your team is right now.

PackMan97
03-08-2016, 12:58 AM
Youze guys could help a lot more often...

:rolleyes:;)

Fixed that for you.

Hey, didn't you see our Wrestling team beat them this year? As did your women's basketball team? and our swimming team? and our cross country and bass fishing teams?

BD80
03-08-2016, 04:43 AM
Fixed that for you.

Hey, didn't you see our Wrestling team beat them this year? As did your women's basketball team? and our swimming team? and our cross country and bass fishing teams?

You whooped their bass?

Right on

Wheat/"/"/"
03-08-2016, 06:22 AM
Just keeping it real in what I think is a very fair an accurate assessment of where your team is right now.

After reading all that twisted denial I guess I'll have to borrow a little phrase I heard somewhere...Scoreboard!

And,btw, the the accurate assessment of where they are right now is ACC regular season champions...that's keeping it real.

77devil
03-08-2016, 07:06 AM
After reading all that twisted denial I guess I'll have to borrow a little phrase I heard somewhere...Scoreboard!

And,btw, the the accurate assessment of where they are right now is ACC regular season champions...that's keeping it real.

After loosing the previous four and something like 10 of the last 13, it's about time you won one. You know what they say about a blind squirrel.

Skitzle
03-08-2016, 07:22 AM
After loosing the previous four and something like 10 of the last 13, it's about time you won one. You know what they say about a blind squirrel.

One of the following:
-Even a blind squirrel experiences an 82-50 clobbering once in a while.
-Even a blind squirrel doesn't have his testing fees waived before he enrolls as a student
-Even a blind squirrel can see that this UNC team isn't a final four caliber

devildeac
03-08-2016, 07:48 AM
Fixed that for you.

Hey, didn't you see our Wrestling team beat them this year? As did your women's basketball team? and our swimming team? and our cross country and bass fishing teams?

Hey, our wrestling team also beat them this year.

And the only reason your bass fishing team beat them is because *wheat* had likely "gone fishing" and was not there to advise them of proper equipment, locations, techniques and probably left a few time outs on the lake, too :rolleyes: .

jv001
03-08-2016, 08:04 AM
After reading all that twisted denial I guess I'll have to borrow a little phrase I heard somewhere...Scoreboard!

And,btw, the the accurate assessment of where they are right now is ACC regular season champions...that's keeping it real.

Wheat we really enjoy your posts on this Duke Board, because it gives us some laughs :cool: The cheats may have won the ACC regular season championship but they are a far cry from being the best team in the nation, no matter what ESPN thought at the beginning of the year. I'll start respecting the unc team again when they are properly punished for their cheating ways. GoDuke!

whereinthehellami
03-08-2016, 08:07 AM
After reading all that twisted denial I guess I'll have to borrow a little phrase I heard somewhere...Scoreboard!

And,btw, the the accurate assessment of where they are right now is ACC regular season champions...that's keeping it real.

Wheat, I can't keep up. Did you guys cheat again this year or not? You know what, don't answer, I wouldn't believe you or anyone suffering from argyle denial anyway.

Channing
03-08-2016, 08:34 AM
I take solace, as do many, that in the year that UNC was supposed to dominate and Duke was supposed to rebuild (and, Duke lost a double/double guy leaving them paper thin), UNC could only split with us and their win required a historic rebounding game (credit to them) and an atrocious shooting night by our guys. c'est la vie

Kfanarmy
03-08-2016, 08:35 AM
After reading all that twisted denial I guess I'll have to borrow a little phrase I heard somewhere...Scoreboard!

And,btw, the the accurate assessment of where they are right now is ACC regular season champions...that's keeping it real.

Your day for sure.

77devil
03-08-2016, 08:46 AM
Roy's teams have now won 7 ACC regular season championships since he came to UNC, arguably the toughest title in the conference. The man can coach, despite fans who want to deny it and second guess his decisions and style.


Roy's regular season titles are pretty meaningless in the era of the unbalanced schedule. His paltry 2 ACC titles is more indicative. But, of course, we know Roy doesn't give a s*** about the ACC tournament.

uh_no
03-08-2016, 08:57 AM
Roy's regular season titles are pretty meaningless in the era of the unbalanced schedule. His paltry 2 ACC titles is more indicative. But, of course, we know Roy doesn't give a s*** about the ACC tournament.

we probably shouldn't be throwing stones given we now haven't won it in for the better part of a decade.

TruBlu
03-08-2016, 09:06 AM
Roy's regular season titles are pretty meaningless in the era of the unbalanced schedule. His paltry 2 ACC titles is more indicative. But, of course, we know Roy doesn't give a s*** about the ACC tournament.

Roy seems to really give a s*** about the ACC tournament when they manage to win it. He doesn't give a s*** about it after they bomb out in it.

Kinda like a guy trying to pick up a girl, getting rejected, then deciding that the girl probably had bad breath and he didn't want her anyway.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-08-2016, 09:07 AM
we probably shouldn't be throwing stones given we now haven't won it in for the better part of a decade.

Agreed. Come on folks, let's let Wheat have his quick moment in the sun. They beat us, they were the better team for 40 minutes. Hopefully, we can wash the taste out of our mouth in just a few days and then they can stew on it for the next 11 months.

77devil
03-08-2016, 09:29 AM
we probably shouldn't be throwing stones given we now haven't won it in for the better part of a decade.

In what sense does 4 years represent the better part of a decade? Further, Duke has won 3 since Roy won his last one.

Four different teams have won since Duke in 2011, which, frankly, is good for the league, and probably more indicative of things to come in the much expanded ACC.

duke09hms
03-08-2016, 09:42 AM
I think that "ceiling" dream, you keep bringing up, is just that, a dream. They finished first in the regular season in an unbalanced league, off the back of beating up the bottom half of the conference, and even there, struggled in most of those games, almost losing to 0-18 Boston College. Your backcourt is very below average, which is why you have no shot at a National Title. Brice is a great player, and the rest are very average. Experienced, is their strong suit. They have a lot of experienced players (Jrs/Srs), and a front line (mainly Brice) capable of overwhelming opponent front lines at times, and winning the front line battle just about every game. But the Achilles Heel, pun intended, is a very below average perimeter. On the rare occasion that make a lot of 3's, they blow teams out. (Miami at Home. Note too, Miami was a terrible road team, getting blown out at NC State, and VaTech, and Maryland is just a mess).

unc had a losing record against the top half of the conference. Go back and look at their conference schedule to see who they beat and who they lost to. It's glaring. That they needed pressure FT's in the final 15 seconds of a game where they out rebounded the opponent by 35 rebounds is very telling. The win at Duke was also the only time this season they were able to get a big win against a good team, in a non-home game, and that was against a team missing its best big man, and with 6 players that are absolutely gassed from having to play so many minutes against a rugged schedule down the stretch. A fresher Duke team wins, and a Duke team with a healthy Amile all season, wins going away.

I will be surprised if unc wins the ACC Championship, and will be shocked/blown away if they reach the Final Four, let alone win the National Title. How far they go will depend solely on matchups, and how far the front line can carry them with no help from the perimeter. If/when they face a team with good/great guards and a decent frontline that can defend the paint, they will have a very hard time winning, and most likely won't.

Marcus Paige has regressed so far he reminds me of Ricky Price, and Justin Jackson is no where near the player I expected him to be at this point after watching him his final year of High School where he looked like a High Impact Player. His growth has been stunted by being in the wrong system. (As has Hicks for that matter. Hicks grew up near me so I know what he is capable of).

So congrats on finishing first in the Regular Season. Enjoy it. I suspect it will the last time to celebrate a title of any kind for a long, long time, unless they can pull it off this weekend.

Not sour grapes. Our guys fought like crazy but were just too worn down, and it showed in the shooting percentages from the floor, as well as at the Foul Line, where they left critical points on the table. I also think it likely that ol roy was told in no uncertain terms that Luke Maye, and Joel James not leave the bench in this game. That alone may have been the difference in a 4 point game.

Just keeping it real in what I think is a very fair an accurate assessment of where your team is right now.

Sigh, this is just WAY too soon. For all of their flaws this year, UNC is 25-6 and #5 in KenPom. In a year without any dominant teams, they could EASILY win it all, ACC tournament and NCAA tournament included.

moonpie23
03-08-2016, 09:43 AM
enjoy your victory, wheat....y'all won fair and square...

uh_no
03-08-2016, 10:09 AM
In what sense does 4 years represent the better part of a decade?

I was always a fan of the more recent past :)

oldnavy
03-08-2016, 10:15 AM
Sigh, this is just WAY too soon. For all of their flaws this year, UNC is 25-6 and #5 in KenPom. In a year without any dominant teams, they could EASILY win it all, ACC tournament and NCAA tournament included.

I agree with everything, except this.... "easily"?

They may win it all (although I am not predicting it), but I hardly think it will be easy. They are not a dominate team, and there are more than a few teams that could give the heels a run for their money.

Let's wait and see who is in their bracket before we start predicting easy paths to the FF...

Remember, this is the exact same team that was one possession away from losing to our good friend Tommy Amaker and Harvard... they tend to play to the level of their competition and that is a recipe for disaster in a one and done tournament format.

duke09hms
03-08-2016, 10:37 AM
I agree with everything, except this... "easily"?

They may win it all (although I am not predicting it), but I hardly think it will be easy. They are not a dominate team, and there are more than a few teams that could give the heels a run for their money.

Let's wait and see who is in their bracket before we start predicting easy paths to the FF...

Remember, this is the exact same team that was one possession away from losing to our good friend Tommy Amaker and Harvard... they tend to play to the level of their competition and that is a recipe for disaster in a one and done tournament format.

haha sorry didn't mean it in that context. Meant more "conceivably" or "realistically".
And yep, if there's any justice in the world, there's no way they hang up their 4th championship this year.

Kedsy
03-08-2016, 11:15 AM
And yep, if there's any justice in the world, there's no way they hang up their 4th championship this year.

You mean 4th because two of the others would be vacated before the end of this season?

meowmix911
03-08-2016, 11:28 AM
Sigh, this is just WAY too soon. For all of their flaws this year, UNC is 25-6 and #5 in KenPom. In a year without any dominant teams, they could EASILY win it all, ACC tournament and NCAA tournament included.

+1 - I think the UNC team has a high ceiling, and mostly agree with Wheat. They win games despite playing horrendously in terms of shooting from the field.

Long range shooting has high variance, while things like rebounding, put-backs, and post play have much lower variance. Carolina is a bad shooting team, no doubt, but they win despite the poor shooting. The truth is that a 3rd Duke UNC matchup could get ugly. We have depth issues to worry about, and have no interior bulk to speak of, save for Marshall.

I love the heart of this team--it's maybe the best in years, but the degree to which Duke feels outmanned is palpable. In my opinion, there's no doubt that Duke is playing much closer to their ceiling than UNC.

Either way, I'll cheer us on as hard as I can for the rest of this season and hope for miracles :)

Zmac32
03-08-2016, 11:48 AM
This is a very good UNC team, but I could definitely see them stumbling in the tournament. UNC has lost every game in which they don't post at least 30 points from the paint (side note: their six losses have been by a total of 22 points). We just aren't the type of team who will ever be able to limit that roster to sub-30 in the paint.

While I agree w/ the decision to go zone (lack of depth makes it tough to pick up man all night), our 2-3 is pretty atrocious (I dig the 1-3-1). I love Marshall as much as the next guy, but he just doesn't have the defensive instincts to be able to man the center of a zone. The gaps that UNC managed to find within the second layer of defense is something that needs to be addressed before post season play.

That being said, there are a lot of teams out there who can really zone up. I could see ol' baby blue struggling the moment they run into someone who can. The teams in the ACC who probably zone the best are Syracuse, Virginia and Louisville. The holes were 2-2 against said opponents, while only scoring 74.5 points per game (they average approx. 83 ppg on the year).

I may be poking holes here...but it is always a red flag for me heading in to march when a team relies as heavily as they do on one particular aspect of their game.

PackMan97
03-08-2016, 12:43 PM
This is a very good UNC team, but I could definitely see them stumbling in the tournament. UNC has lost every game in which they don't post at least 30 points from the paint (side note: their six losses have been by a total of 22 points).

This is a very soft UNC team.

Aside from their victory against Miami they have not have any dominating performances against a good team (top 50 RPI). Every other team they've played in the top 50 has pushed them. They can beat anyone, but I also think they are very vulnerable to a determined team (see Duke in your first match).

Back in my day when Carolina was in the top 10, that meant they could win every game. I didn't matter if they were down 20 with five minutes left to go I always wondered when the comeback would start. Now, it's almost the opposite. I get the feeling that UNC could lose every game. They no longer have that killer instinct, that mystique, the "Carolina Way" if you will. Brice Johnson is a great player, as is Paige, but neither of them will ever be confused with a player who can take over a game. Dominate a game? Sure if the matchups are favorable...but a player that can put a team on their back and carry the day when things are looking poor? Nope.

I'll only pick UNC to go far in the NCAA as an emotional hedge. If they do advance in the tourney, at least my entry will look better. If they loose early, Christmas will have come in March :)

rsvman
03-08-2016, 12:47 PM
I don't think that Carolina is all that good a team. that said, in this particular year, anything could happen. they have the horses to hang with anybody. if they could shoot, they'd be Final Four favorites, but then again if my daughter were good looking she'd be the prom queen.

Brice Johnson is the real deal, though, and I actually kind of like Marcus Paige (but he's a shadow of his former self).

cspan37421
03-08-2016, 01:05 PM
if they could shoot, they'd be Final Four favorites, but then again if my daughter were good looking she'd be the prom queen.

Wow, rsvman, I hope she doesn't read DBR!

ncexnyc
03-08-2016, 01:26 PM
Last week one of our esteemed members implied Wheat was a troll and after two pages of responses to Wheat patting his boys in baby blue on the back for doing what most ACC writers picked them to do here are some songs for all of you to consider.

Rock and Troll Fantasy--Bad Co.
Rock and Troll Hootcie Koo-- Rick Derringer
I Love Rock and Troll---Joan Jett
Rock and Troll All Night--Kiss
Rock and Troll Never Forgets--Bob Seager
Rock and Troll Parts 1 and 2--Gary Glitter
It's Only Rock and Troll But I Like It--Rolling Stones
Rock and Troll High School--Ramones
Rock and Troll Doctor--Black Sabbath
Rock and Troll Heart--Eric Clapton

uh_no
03-08-2016, 01:44 PM
This is a very soft UNC team.


This is a very soft year. who's the great team out there? take your pick, spin the wheel, there's like 10 teams who have a good shot to win it. UNC's shot is at least as good as any of theirs.

oldnavy
03-08-2016, 03:30 PM
This is a very soft year. who's the great team out there? take your pick, spin the wheel, there's like 10 teams who have a good shot to win it. UNC's shot is at least as good as any of theirs.

This was a year that UNC could have established themselves as the clear cut, dominate team in the country.

But, for whatever reason, UNC hasn't managed to breakout or distinguish themselves in a year where their has been no Great Teams...

Not sure this is what UNC expected coming in to this year, although as Wheat so happily pointed out, they did win the (ir)regular season championship. They were also the preseason #1 team and for good reason.

Let's see how they play away from CH, and in the pressure of a OAD game... Their performance this year on the road has been pretty dreadful. Lost to Texas, Lost to UNI, Lost to Louisville, Lost to ND, Lost to UVa, Won at Duke. That's not really confidence inspiring now is it?

Maybe they win their last game of the year and all is well.... otherwise I have to think that this would be a disappointment to most of the tarheel faithful.

oldnavy
03-08-2016, 04:08 PM
This is a very soft UNC team.

Aside from their victory against Miami they have not have any dominating performances against a good team (top 50 RPI). Every other team they've played in the top 50 has pushed them. They can beat anyone, but I also think they are very vulnerable to a determined team (see Duke in your first match).

Back in my day when Carolina was in the top 10, that meant they could win every game. I didn't matter if they were down 20 with five minutes left to go I always wondered when the comeback would start. Now, it's almost the opposite. I get the feeling that UNC could lose every game. They no longer have that killer instinct, that mystique, the "Carolina Way" if you will. Brice Johnson is a great player, as is Paige, but neither of them will ever be confused with a player who can take over a game. Dominate a game? Sure if the matchups are favorable...but a player that can put a team on their back and carry the day when things are looking poor? Nope.

I'll only pick UNC to go far in the NCAA as an emotional hedge. If they do advance in the tourney, at least my entry will look better. If they loose early, Christmas will have come in March :)

UNC is 3-5 against the RPI top 50.... plus they have a loss to UNI who is out of the top 50 (albeit w/o Marquis Paige)....

rsvman
03-08-2016, 04:20 PM
Wow, rsvman, I hope she doesn't read DBR!

Ha! I don't have a daughter. It's just an expression of how saying "If X then Y" can quickly become pointless.


But thanks for caring. :o

sagegrouse
03-08-2016, 04:47 PM
Ha! I don't have a daughter. It's just an expression of how saying "If X then Y" can quickly become pointless.


But thanks for caring. :o

It was immediately obvious to this father of four daughters that "you didn't have a daughter!"

Skitzle
03-08-2016, 05:00 PM
I don't think that Carolina is all that good a team. that said, in this particular year, anything could happen. they have the horses to hang with anybody. if they could shoot, they'd be Final Four favorites, but then again if my daughter were good looking she'd be the prom queen.

Brice Johnson is the real deal, though, and I actually kind of like Marcus Paige (but he's a shadow of his former self).

Winners, losers, Whiney UNC fans, prom queens. There is a Sean Connery quote somewhere in here... But I'm not sure I can find it tastefully.

devilseven
03-08-2016, 05:05 PM
Last week one of our esteemed members implied Wheat was a troll and after two pages of responses to Wheat patting his boys in baby blue on the back for doing what most ACC writers picked them to do here are some songs for all of you to consider.

Rock and Troll Fantasy--Bad Co.
Rock and Troll Hootcie Koo-- Rick Derringer
I Love Rock and Troll---Joan Jett
Rock and Troll All Night--Kiss
Rock and Troll Never Forgets--Bob Seager
Rock and Troll Parts 1 and 2--Gary Glitter
It's Only Rock and Troll But I Like It--Rolling Stones
Rock and Troll High School--Ramones
Rock and Troll Doctor--Black Sabbath
Rock and Troll Heart--Eric Clapton

How about Shake, Rattle, and Troll - Bill Haley and the Comets

devildeac
03-08-2016, 05:08 PM
How about Shake, Rattle, and Troll - Bill Haley and the Comets

Rock and Troll is King-ELO
Troll Over Beethoven-Chuck Berry/Beatles/ELO

Karl Beem
03-08-2016, 05:18 PM
I don't think that Carolina is all that good a team. that said, in this particular year, anything could happen. they have the horses to hang with anybody. if they could shoot, they'd be Final Four favorites, but then again if my daughter were good looking she'd be the prom queen.

Brice Johnson is the real deal, though, and I actually kind of like Marcus Paige (but he's a shadow of his former self).

I really like Marcus when he is missing - I'm going to miss his misses.