Welcome to Duke, Jack White

[NashvilleDevil]

Evan Daniels just tweeted that Jack White has committed to Duke.

[Pghdukie]

Glad to hear it. Best wishes !!

[kAzE]

Welcome aboard, mate! I've got some hopes for this kid, I think he has chance to be really solid player in a few years. Looking forward to watching him.

[arnie]

Welcome aboard, mate! I've got some hopes for this kid, I think he has chance to be really solid player in a few years. Looking forward to watching him.

Still room for Amile next year - right?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oh great, Duke's NEXT hated White player.

:)

Welcome home, Jack!

[moonpie23]

welcome to duke, mate......!!!!

[sagegrouse]

See if this Twitter link (https://twitter.com/search?q=%405jackwhite&src=typd) works.

[OldPhiKap]

A seven Nation army couldn't hold him back.

Welcome.

[Furniture]

Duke Blue Devils have added Aussie, Jack White to their 2016 class. White is a 6-6, 230 pound wing player who has until this point played his basketball career in Australia.

The White family informed Duke Coach Mike Krzzyewski of his decision on Thursday. White will now learn future skills at the highest level of college basketball.

He joins a recruiting class that features Harry Giles, Jayson Tatum, Javin DeLaurier and Franks Jackson. Duke is still recruiting Marques Bolden as well. Bolden recently said he would be making his decision within a month.

http://bluedevilnation.net/2016/03/jack-white-commits-to-duke/

[Furniture]

6063

[Tom B.]

Still room for Amile next year - right?

Not sure. As it stands now, if Amile and Grayson come back, and Brandon leaves for the NBA, we'd be one over the limit with 14 scholarship players.

Jack White
Javin DeLaurier
Frank Jackson
Harry Giles
Jayson Tatum
Chase Jeter
Luke Kennard
Derryck Thornton
Antonio Vrankovic
Justin Robinson
Grayson Allen
Sean Obi
Matt Jones
Amile Jefferson

Am I missing anything?

[CDu]

Not sure. As it stands now, if Amile and Grayson come back, and Brandon leaves for the NBA, we'd be one over the limit with 14 scholarship players.

Jack White
Javin DeLaurier
Frank Jackson
Harry Giles
Jayson Tatum
Chase Jeter
Luke Kennard
Derryck Thornton
Antonio Vrankovic
Justin Robinson
Grayson Allen
Sean Obi
Matt Jones
Amile Jefferson

Am I missing anything?

Robinson was not brought in as a scholarship player. He happened to get one this year because we had some to spare. He will not have a scholarship next year in that scenario where Allen and Jefferson return.

[Kedsy]

Robinson was not brought in as a scholarship player. He happened to get one this year because we had some to spare. He will not have a scholarship next year in that scenario where Allen and Jefferson return.

Right, but now it's really either Jefferson or Bolden (or neither). There's no room for both.

[Olympic Fan]

Right, but now it's really either Jefferson or Bolden (or neither). There's no room for both.

Just to repeat what I was told a week ago -- if Jefferson redshirts, that eliminates the chance of getting Bolden. No guarantee of getting Bolden if Jefferson leaves -- but the chances are very good.

The source that told me this also told me that 100 percent chance of getting Jack White if Duke offered. He was right about that.

[gwlaw99]

About where would he have been ranked if he were American?

[heyman25]

Very good news. Aussie's can really play. I like his size. Let's get Bolden and bring back Amile. Next season we have a very good chance of #6. I would recommend better foot and ankle conditioning techniques. There have been too many injuries lately. I know it comes frequently in a sport like basketball,but Duke seems to have a much higher % of these injuries than many other teams.

[CDu]

Right, but now it's really either Jefferson or Bolden (or neither). There's no room for both.


Just to repeat what I was told a week ago -- if Jefferson redshirts, that eliminates the chance of getting Bolden. No guarantee of getting Bolden if Jefferson leaves -- but the chances are very good.

The source that told me this also told me that 100 percent chance of getting Jack White if Duke offered. He was right about that.

Yeah, I can't imagine Bolden wanting to come to Duke and play very limited minutes behind Jefferson and Giles. So while it is true that the scholarship situation precludes both (assuming nobody leaves but Ingram), that is probably a moot point in practical terms.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Yeah, I can't imagine Bolden wanting to come to Duke and play very limited minutes behind Jefferson and Giles. So while it is true that the scholarship situation precludes both (assuming nobody leaves but Ingram), that is probably a moot point in practical terms.
Yeah. And I mean, healthy 5th year senior with all ACC potential vs unproven freshmen who wants to be one and done anyway... seems like a no lose scenario for us if Amile redshirts and comes back.

[Furniture]

http://m.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/victorian-basketballer-jack-white-accepts-duke-university-college-scholarship-20160304-gnausq.html

[OldPhiKap]

About where would he have been ranked if he were American?

Not sure, but he would rank clockwise and not counter-clockwise.

[mattman91]

About where would he have been ranked if he were American?

I'd guess down under the top 100.

[luburch]

About where would he have been ranked if he were American?

247 has him as the No. 221 overall player in the class. 86 overall and 3 stars.

http://247sports.com/Player/Jack-White-88916

[dukelifer]

Welcome aboard, mate! I've got some hopes for this kid, I think he has chance to be really solid player in a few years. Looking forward to watching him.

Looks to be hard nosed and likes to mix it up. It will take him a year to get comfortable with the college game.

[devildeac]

6063

Australian player?

With hops?

Yes, please!

;)

[devildeac]

I'd guess down under the top 100.

I see what you did there ;) .

[BD80]

Australian player?

With hops?

Yes, please!

;)

Are you saying that when he steps onto the playing surface, it becomes ...

a kangaroo court?

sorry

[Henderson]

Very nice pick up.

Will April 25 be a Duke holiday now?

[budwom]

Just to repeat what I was told a week ago -- if Jefferson redshirts, that eliminates the chance of getting Bolden. No guarantee of getting Bolden if Jefferson leaves -- but the chances are very good.

The source that told me this also told me that 100 percent chance of getting Jack White if Duke offered. He was right about that.

I just don't think this is true (i.e. your source's take on things). IF Allen were to leave, or IF someone transferred, and Bolden wanted to commit, K would take him in a second.
It's true that the inn is one room overbooked right now, but these things have a way of sorting themselves out.
Some people do wonder if Bolden would want to come if Jefferson returns, that's more supposition than fact right now.
We'll know soon enough...

[dukejim1]

Evan Daniels just tweeted that Jack White has committed to Duke.

Do we know he has committed as a scholarship player or could he be a preferred walk-on like Robinson?

[Ichabod Drain]

Do we know he has committed as a scholarship player or could he be a preferred walk-on like Robinson?

When he visited Duke last week it was said that he had recieved a scholarship offer.

[devildeac]

Are you saying that when he steps onto the playing surface, it becomes ...

a kangaroo court?

sorry

I was wondering what path folks would take after my post.

We may have to take you out back after that one because I don't think we can foster that sort of humour here.

Welcome to Duke, Jack White.

[sagegrouse]

Do we know he has committed as a scholarship player or could he be a preferred walk-on like Robinson?

From the linked article:


"White had to be talked into believing the Blue Devils and coach Mike Krzyzewski, known as Coach K, were serious about adding him to their roster for next season. But on Friday the Australian junior star verbally accepted a Duke basketball scholarship starting later this year."

Direct quotes:


"It's a different path to what most Aussie kids take and that makes it a great challenge in itself," White said.

"I have confidence I can play straight away but Duke don't promise anything to anyone whether you are an international kid or a McDonald's All-American.

"That's part of the challenge, working for your opportunities and proving what you have got.

"It's going to be a great challenge but one I'm ready for."
Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'Collective nouns like "Duke" or "government" are typically plural in the Commonwealth countries. Therefore, "Duke don't promise" is grammatical'

[Bluedog]

From the linked article:


Direct quotes:

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'Collective nouns like "Duke" or "government" are typically plural in the Commonwealth countries. Therefore, "Duke don't promise" is grammatical'

Wow, thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea... Odd difference between British and American English. Welcome to Duke, Jack White!

[Tripping William]

Australian player?

With hops?

Yes, please!

;)


I was wondering what path folks would take after my post.

We may have to take you out back after that one because I don't think we can foster that sort of humour here.

Welcome to Duke, Jack White.

Shiraz a koala loves a eucalyptus leaf, I knew this thread would eventually take this turn. Just imagine if young Mr. White's first name had been "Joey." :rolleyes:

[devildeac]

Shiraz a koala loves a eucalyptus leaf, I knew this thread would eventually take this turn. Just imagine if young Mr. White's first name had been "Joey." :rolleyes:

And, if we don't attempt to keep this on topic, I fear one of the mods will have us marsupialized.

I'm really intrigued by this young recruit.

[superdave]

Am I missing anything?


Yeah, Allen should go pro.

#19: http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

#21/22: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft

#20: http://hoopshype.com/2016/02/27/nba-mock-draft-2016/

[timmy c]

Yeah, Allen should go pro.

#19: http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

#21/22: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft

#20: http://hoopshype.com/2016/02/27/nba-mock-draft-2016/

The Jack White scholarship offer was a signal to me that the staff are planning for Allen to be in the 2016 Draft. The other signal is the inability of the currently reffing system to protect Grayson from some ridiculously rough play.

Looking forward to seeing Jack in a Duke uniform!

[Henderson]

Australian player?

With hops?

Yes, please!

;)

Oddly, Australia has a great climate for hops and a tradition of beer-making and yet is outproduced by both Albania and North Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops

[duke blue brewcrew]

I'm really intrigued by this young recruit.

As am I! He seems like a 4 yr, hard nosed, hustler kind of player. I think he's a good addition to the team.

[burnspbesq]

To this old fart, White sounds like Dan Meagher with range. Will absolutely take that.

[johnb]

The Jack White scholarship offer was a signal to me that the staff are planning for Allen to be in the 2016 Draft. The other signal is the inability of the currently reffing system to protect Grayson from some ridiculously rough play.



This seems a reasonable conclusion. The 3 listed draft predictions list Grayson at 19, 20, and 21, with the upside limit being his size and speed. He's not going to grow taller or get faster by 2017, and so Grayson may be peaking in regards to his draft status. I'd guess this is why Tyus went pro last year. I felt then that he'd be better off sticking around at Duke in regards to becoming a better basketball player, but he too wasn't going to get taller or more physically gifted, and he was a NC hero, so he maxed his draft status at the expense--I'd argue--of his overall hoops progression. Of course, some would say that he'll learn more about basketball playing it full time, but I still think it's better to be playing for K than mostly sitting on the bench for Minnesota (though he does have a 5 year $10m contract that would ease the pain).

As for rough play... I do think Allen gets beat up a good bit, but he does get to the line a lot, and he also seems to relish and initiate much of the contact. This is a different situation from the abuse that JJ took, and Grayson can't really expect them to call a foul every time he drives the lane (even if he draws a foul much of the time).

I'd guess we can still get Bolden. Yes, he may decide he doesn't want to play behind Giles and Jefferson, but he may be able to recognize that he'd be among our top 8 players, and top 8 players get a lot of minutes at Duke if they are good enough. And he'd then be playing alongside his former DeSoto teammate as well as some lottery picks and two excellent point guards. If he likes Duke, he can certainly justify enrollment. I have moments of loyalty to the guys who are already here, which leads me to worry that Bolden's arrival would keep guys like Obi on the bench, but the reality is that none of our second line big guys is likely to get much PT next year unless they significantly improve (a tired Giles will still be seen by K as more effective than a rested Vrank).

[duke74]

I was wondering what path folks would take after my post.

We may have to take you out back after that one because I don't think we can foster that sort of humour here.

Welcome to Duke, Jack White.

Ouch....

[BD80]

To this old fart, White sounds like Dan Meagher with range. Will absolutely take that.

But Danny had plenty of rage.

Oh... range.

Never mind.

[Henderson]

Anybody who sticks his tongue down the throat of Triumph The Insult Comic Dog is OK by me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvwkRA3zLAI

[devildeac]

Oddly, Australia has a great climate for hops and a tradition of beer-making and yet is outproduced by both Albania and North Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops

Good research. I'd have never thought Albania and N. Korea would lead Australia in hops production.

I'm not surprised my post has taken both the marsupial and the humulus lupulus pathways. ;)

It'll be interesting to see if White's 2016 recruiting rating takes a Duke "bump."

[devildeac]

To this old fart, White sounds like Dan Meagher with range. Will absolutely take that.

3 point range or spitting range?

[jimsumner]

I've heard Lee Melchionni as a comparison.

It might be useful to look at the numbers.

If Duke . . .

keeps Allen
keeps Jefferson
signs Bolden
loses Ingram
has no other attrition

That adds up to 14 scholarship players for next season. And that's not including Robinson.

Here's that putative 2017 roster, by class

Sr/Grad
Jefferson
Jones

Jr.
Allen
Obi

So.
Thornton
Kennard
Jeter
Vrankovic

Fr.
Giles
Tatum
Jackson
DeLaurier
White
Bolden

So. at least one of the above-mentioned things cannot be true.

[fan345678]

Well, Jack White did come up for the guitar riff for Seven Nation Army during a sound check in Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUwhutKZAEk . Now the crazies can go full Euro Soccer hooligan with the chants.

[duke blue brewcrew]

So. at least one of the above-mentioned things cannot be true.

And your best guess would be...? :)

[Billy Dat]

Do we sense a newer trend with K to try and find more bodies to ensure that we'll be able to have competitive practices every year, regardless of injury, early departure, transfer, etc., and that maybe he's targeting a different type of kid - White, Vrank, Robinson - who are less of a transfer threat even if they sit the bench for a while?

[jimsumner]

And your best guess would be...? :)

My best guess is that the coaches already know. :)

They could be ready to roll out Jefferson (less likely every day)

or Allen is gone (could go either way)

or they know for certain that Jefferson and Bolden are mutually exclusive (highly likely)

or there is a plan for Obi to move on (maybe in everyone's best interests?)

or someone else is leaving.

But there is no plausible way Duke offers Jack White unless they know they'll have room for him.

[Olympic Fan]

I just don't think this is true (i.e. your source's take on things). IF Allen were to leave, or IF someone transferred, and Bolden wanted to commit, K would take him in a second.
It's true that the inn is one room overbooked right now, but these things have a way of sorting themselves out.
Some people do wonder if Bolden would want to come if Jefferson returns, that's more supposition than fact right now.
We'll know soon enough...

It's not a matter of Duke's perspective ... of course K would still take Bolden in a second ... and he'd find a way to make the scholarships fit.

But it's all about Bolden's perspective -- he's not coming to Duke if Jefferson is coming back to eat up 25-30 minutes a game in the post. Certainly fair to say that's "more supposition than fact" ... in this case, I say the info comes from a good source who was 100 percent right about White. You don't have to believe it, I'm just reporting what I was told by someone I trust.

Now, you might prefer a fifth-year Jefferson to a freshman Bolden -- that's a fair opinion -- but it's one or the other, not both.

[kAzE]

I'd guess we can still get Bolden. Yes, he may decide he doesn't want to play behind Giles and Jefferson, but he may be able to recognize that he'd be among our top 8 players, and top 8 players get a lot of minutes at Duke if they are good enough. And he'd then be playing alongside his former DeSoto teammate as well as some lottery picks and two excellent point guards. If he likes Duke, he can certainly justify enrollment. I have moments of loyalty to the guys who are already here, which leads me to worry that Bolden's arrival would keep guys like Obi on the bench, but the reality is that none of our second line big guys is likely to get much PT next year unless they significantly improve (a tired Giles will still be seen by K as more effective than a rested Vrank).

Not to seem like I'm singling out this post, but why does it seem like everyone is just assuming that Bolden is just going to come in and be better than Chase Jeter? If Bolden commits to Duke, he will absolutely need to outplay Chase Jeter to get minutes, and if Amile does indeed play next year, that would mean 4 true post players in the rotation, which in 36 years of Coach K, has never been a thing. I'm in agreement that if Amile comes back, Bolden will look elsewhere.

People can write off Chase all they want, but I see a guy who has huge potential. His size and length is elite, and his athleticism is very good. It's his body control/strength and basketball IQ that need to catch up, and there's no reason to doubt that it will happen. Big men usually develop more slowly than guards. I think I still like Jeter's long term potential more than Bolden. He's bigger, longer, more athletic, and seems to have more offensive skill.

[sagegrouse]

People can write off Chase all they want, but I see a guy who has huge potential. His size and length is elite, and his athleticism is very good. It's his body control/strength and basketball IQ that need to catch up, and there's no reason to doubt that it will happen. Big men usually develop more slowly than guards. I think I still like Jeter's long term potential more than Bolden. He's bigger, longer, more athletic, and seems to have more offensive skill.

^This. And to those who say, "I can tell now what Chase's ceiling is and it isn't high," I would reference Brandon Ingram's very shaky play early in the season, which screamed "I'm not ready for college ball." Now he is a top-two pick for the NBA..

[ncexnyc]

Not to seem like I'm singling out this post, but why does it seem like everyone is just assuming that Bolden is just going to come in and be better than Chase Jeter? If Bolden commits to Duke, he will absolutely need to outplay Chase Jeter to get minutes, and if Amile does indeed play next year, that would mean 4 true post players in the rotation, which in 36 years of Coach K, has never been a thing. I'm in agreement that if Amile comes back, Bolden will look elsewhere.

People can write off Chase all they want, but I see a guy who has huge potential. His size and length is elite, and his athleticism is very good. It's his body control/strength and basketball IQ that need to catch up, and there's no reason to doubt that it will happen. Big men usually develop more slowly than guards. I think I still like Jeter's long term potential more than Bolden. He's bigger, longer, more athletic, and seems to have more offensive skill.

Hey, what do you expect?

This is a basketball forum after all and the unknown is always more appealing than the known for a large number of forum members.

For the record, while Chase may be developing slower than some may like, you can clearly see the potential this kid has. I definitely like what I see and believe he will be a very good player for us in the future.

[Dukehky]

Jack White = Marty Pocious

[jipops]

Not to seem like I'm singling out this post, but why does it seem like everyone is just assuming that Bolden is just going to come in and be better than Chase Jeter? If Bolden commits to Duke, he will absolutely need to outplay Chase Jeter to get minutes, and if Amile does indeed play next year, that would mean 4 true post players in the rotation, which in 36 years of Coach K, has never been a thing. I'm in agreement that if Amile comes back, Bolden will look elsewhere.

People can write off Chase all they want, but I see a guy who has huge potential. His size and length is elite, and his athleticism is very good. It's his body control/strength and basketball IQ that need to catch up, and there's no reason to doubt that it will happen. Big men usually develop more slowly than guards. I think I still like Jeter's long term potential more than Bolden. He's bigger, longer, more athletic, and seems to have more offensive skill.

I'm not going to disagree with you on Chase's potential, but I think he still has a ways to go to realize it. In my opinion he may still be another full season away from being able to provide significant contributions. If the staff feels the same way then it would be understandable for them to look for another potential talented option in the front court.

And though it is very rare of a K team, there have been a few cases where he has rotated a number of bigs. Kelly, 2 Plumlees, Thomas, & Zoubek were all apart of a regular rotation throughout the season in 2010. Sure Kelly did see a lot less time as the season went on and the Plumlee's barely played in the tournament. And in 2002 K did regularly rotate Boozer, Sanders, Horvath, & Christensen. Of course Boozer saw the lion's share of those minutes and was the only one with significant production.

[sagegrouse]

Jack White = Marty Pocious

That's an easy charge to make, but a low blow to our newest recruit. Not good.

[kAzE]

I'm not going to disagree with you on Chase's potential, but I think he still has a ways to go to realize it. In my opinion he may still be another full season away from being able to provide significant contributions. If the staff feels the same way then it would be understandable for them to look for another potential talented option in the front court.

And though it is very rare of a K team, there have been a few cases where he has rotated a number of bigs. Kelly, 2 Plumlees, Thomas, & Zoubek were all apart of a regular rotation throughout the season in 2010. Sure Kelly did see a lot less time as the season went on and the Plumlee's barely played in the tournament. And in 2002 K did regularly rotate Boozer, Sanders, Horvath, & Christensen. Of course Boozer saw the lion's share of those minutes and was the only one with significant production.

I agree that Chase might still be a full year away, but you never know how much he could improve over the summer. If Amile is gone after this year, we will need him to play significant minutes, especially if Jayson Tatum can't be a 4. In that scenario, it would be very wise to add front court depth. But even if Bolden does commit to Duke, I'm not sure he would be ready for big minutes in year 1 either. I think his development would also likely take some time.

In response to the 2nd half of your post: That's why I said "true post players" in my post, and not "bigs." Ryan Kelly is 6'11" but no one has ever described him as a true post player, and he was definitely not a part of the 2010 rotation. The Plumlees barely were. Unless Bolden has a secret talent for draining 3s, I suspect that he will be playing in the paint much more often than out at the 3 point line, like Kelly. Lance Thomas was capable of defending 4 positions on the court, and was more similar to Justise Winslow position-wise than Brian Zoubek. He played on the perimeter quite a bit defensively, which is not something Bolden will be able to do. Horvath and Christensen played very sparingly, and almost not at all in meaningful games, so I wouldn't consider them true rotation players. If Marques Bolden was looking at Nick Horvath type minutes, I think he'd say no.

[CDu]

I'm not going to disagree with you on Chase's potential, but I think he still has a ways to go to realize it. In my opinion he may still be another full season away from being able to provide significant contributions. If the staff feels the same way then it would be understandable for them to look for another potential talented option in the front court.

And though it is very rare of a K team, there have been a few cases where he has rotated a number of bigs. Kelly, 2 Plumlees, Thomas, & Zoubek were all apart of a regular rotation throughout the season in 2010. Sure Kelly did see a lot less time as the season went on and the Plumlee's barely played in the tournament. And in 2002 K did regularly rotate Boozer, Sanders, Horvath, & Christensen. Of course Boozer saw the lion's share of those minutes and was the only one with significant production.

Kelly played VERY little in 2010, and when he did it was usually at SF. And Horvath, Sanders, and Christensen played about 20 mpg combined and those minutes came mainly in blowouts. Dunleavy was actually our primary PF that year.

[COYS]

I agree that Chase might still be a full year away, but you never know how much he could improve over the summer. If Amile is gone after this year, we will need him to play significant minutes, especially if Jayson Tatum can't be a 4. In that scenario, it would be very wise to add front court depth. But even if Bolden does commit to Duke, I'm not sure he would be ready for big minutes in year 1 either. I think his development would also likely take some time.


First, welcome to Duke, Jack! I am certainly hopefully that he's an undervalued player who will sneak up on all of us and make a contribution. However, the fact that we are still actively pursuing Bolden and top 10 guys for 2017 makes me think that we are going to make sure Jack has plenty of time to run his own race.

As for earning playing time for freshman not ranked in the top 10, so much of that depends on the team's need and a player's ability to deliver. In 2013, incoming freshman Rasheed Suliamon beat out Alex Murphy to our surprise (at the time). Yet it was obvious after a while that Rasheed brought much needed wing defense to a team that otherwise lacked an obvious strong defender on the wing. Last year, Justise Winslow was able to provide the same thing, beating out Rasheed for a starting role. Obviously, Justise worked out pretty well for us. Way back in 2010, Coach K made every effort to get non-top 10 freshman Mason Plumlee in the lineup early in the season before realizing that he wasn't quite as ready as Zoubek to take over the role of strong defender who complements our other offensive players. Mason could have been a lower rated recruit but a strong defender and rebounder from day one and earned more minutes. The fact that he was very versatile in his skillset but not quite able to contribute in any one complementary area is part of the reason why Zoubek became a better option (it also should be noted that Mason broke his wrist in the pre-season and didn't get to acclimate the way many other freshman do).

So, Bolden could be like Mason, a clearly talented player who needs time to develop his all-around game. OR, he could come in as a strong rebounder and defender who perfectly fits in with the rest of the team. I think if it's the latter situation, he can earn a lot more minutes, especially if Allen leaves moving Jayson to the three for more minutes per game.

[jimsumner]

I agree that Chase might still be a full year away, but you never know how much he could improve over the summer. If Amile is gone after this year, we will need him to play significant minutes, especially if Jayson Tatum can't be a 4. In that scenario, it would be very wise to add front court depth. But even if Bolden does commit to Duke, I'm not sure he would be ready for big minutes in year 1 either. I think his development would also likely take some time.

In response to the 2nd half of your post: That's why I said "true post players" in my post, and not "bigs." Ryan Kelly is 6'11" but no one has ever described him as a true post player, and he was definitely not a part of the 2010 rotation. Unless Bolden has a secret talent for draining 3s, I suspect that he will be playing in the paint much more often than out at the 3 point line. The Plumlees barely were. Lance Thomas was capable of defending 4 positions on the court, and was more similar to Justise Winslow position-wise than Brian Zoubek. He played on the perimeter quite a bit defensively, which is not something Bolden will be able to do. Horvath and Christensen played very sparingly, and almost not at all in meaningful games, so I wouldn't consider them true rotation players. If Marques Bolden was looking at Nick Horvath type minutes, I think he'd say no.

Very much agree on Kelly. But Miles Plumlee actually started more games than Zoubek that season and averaged just over 16 mpg. Zoubek played 746 minutes that season, Miles played 654.

Mason averaged about 14 mpg.

I think that's part of the rotation.

[kAzE]

Very much agree on Kelly. But Miles Plumlee actually started more games than Zoubek that season and averaged just over 16 mpg. Zoubek played 746 minutes that season, Miles played 654.

Mason averaged about 14 mpg.

I think that's part of the rotation.

Yep, the Plumlees were rotation players. I was adding a sentence about Kelly in an edit and I think something got lost in the translation. In the final edit of my post, I think what I was saying is more clear:


In response to the 2nd half of your post: That's why I said "true post players" in my post, and not "bigs." Ryan Kelly is 6'11" but no one has ever described him as a true post player, and he was definitely not a part of the 2010 rotation. The Plumlees barely were.

Miles played a bit more than I remember (probably due to how dominant we all remember Zoubek being, despite him really only becoming a force late in the season), so the "barely" in the rotation comment was inaccurate for Miles, but that's still only 3 true post players, as Singler almost always played out on the perimeter on offense.

The main point of my rambling is that I don't really see a way that Amile, Harry, Chase, and Marques can all exist in the same rotation playing significant minutes. Their skill sets have too much overlap, and 1 of those guys would not be playing very much.

[TKG]

Andrew Gaze!!!!!

[Saratoga2]

Not sure. As it stands now, if Amile and Grayson come back, and Brandon leaves for the NBA, we'd be one over the limit with 14 scholarship players.

Jack White
Javin DeLaurier
Frank Jackson
Harry Giles
Jayson Tatum
Chase Jeter
Luke Kennard
Derryck Thornton
Antonio Vrankovic
Justin Robinson
Grayson Allen
Sean Obi
Matt Jones
Amile Jefferson

Am I missing anything?

Welcome to a kid with good size who may surprise some fans with his skill level. My take on the large numbers of recruits is that perhaps we don't know all there is to know about who will return, transfer or red shirt. I will assume Bolden is still in the sights of Duke, so we probably are uninformed about at least one player.

My view is that coach K is still adjusting to the one and done era. While we need OAD players to stay competitive, the yearly loss of 2 or 3 plus the specter of injuries may impact the way coach builds the team going forward. The losses to Louisville, Pitt and Miami point to our lack of depth so maybe he is trying to build a deeper team, with more capable upperclassmen remaining. If that is his goal, he may also adjust PT for bench players to give them more experience so they can contribute when needed. Probably wishful thinking but coach K continues to evolve his thinking so why not?

[kAzE]

But enough about Marques Bolden . . . Jack White thread. I'll get flamed for this, but I see some Singler in him. Clearly not the talent that Singler was, and he's not as big as Singler. But he gives 110% on defense and goes for rebounds hard, even outside of his area. I could be wrong, but I believe there's no way that he's going to be a bad defensive player. I think the one thing that stands out about him is his toughness, which was Kyle's hallmark. I don't think there's any doubt that Jack's a scrapper. And he looks capable of hitting open 3s. I'd bet my DBR avatar that he'll be better than Marty.

[budwom]

I don't think I can remember any recruit about whom we've known less. Since he (as far as I know) hasn't
played in the extensive summer AAU circuit, the usual rating gurus haven't seen him except on tape from down under.
Obviously K must have some good info about him.

[Indoor66]

I don't think I can remember any recruit about whom we've known less. Since he (as far as I know) hasn't
played in the extensive summer AAU circuit, the usual rating gurus haven't seen him except on tape from down under.
Obviously K must have some good info about him.

Imagine the speculation we can have now.I would compare him to Grant with a better outside shot as a freshman, but not quite as good a rebounder and better able to play the paint because of his weight and lower body strength.

Is that about right? :confused::p:cool:

[jimsumner]

Imagine the speculation we can have now.I would compare him to Grant with a better outside shot as a freshman, but not quite as good a rebounder and better able to play the paint because of his weight and lower body strength.

Is that about right? :confused::p:cool:

Nah, he's a combination of a bigger Bobby Hurley and a smaller Mike Gminski.

[Tripping William]

Nah, he's a combination of a bigger Bobby Hurley and a smaller Mike Gminski.

I hear he dominated Nick Horvath in pickup games. You know, during that brief time that Horvath was with the Sydney Kings. ;)

[budwom]

He definitely has to be "the next" somebody.

[Tripping William]

He definitely has to be "the next" somebody.

For starters, I hope Jack > Stillman.

[timmy c]

Nah, he's a combination of a bigger Bobby Hurley and a smaller Mike Gminski.

Can we get some cinder block measurements? Do they even use standard concrete masonry units in Australia?

[JPtheGame]

Can we get some cinder block measurements? Do they even use standard concrete masonry units in Australia?

Yes but they are called Besser Blocks. Jack White is the Besser baller.

[budwom]

adjusting to playing upside down (or downside up) is going to take time.

(serious) question: has K seen him play? I can't recall...can't find any references that he has.

[Indoor66]

Nah, he's a combination of a bigger Bobby Hurley and a smaller Mike Gminski.

You mean BoGim - I remember him. They overlapped in 64-65 with Mullins and Marin. How could I forget! :o:cool:

[Nugget]

Welcome to a kid with good size who may surprise some fans with his skill level. My take on the large numbers of recruits is that perhaps we don't know all there is to know about who will return, transfer or red shirt. I will assume Bolden is still in the sights of Duke, so we probably are uninformed about at least one player.

My view is that coach K is still adjusting to the one and done era. While we need OAD players to stay competitive, the yearly loss of 2 or 3 plus the specter of injuries may impact the way coach builds the team going forward. The losses to Louisville, Pitt and Miami point to our lack of depth so maybe he is trying to build a deeper team, with more capable upperclassmen remaining. If that is his goal, he may also adjust PT for bench players to give them more experience so they can contribute when needed. Probably wishful thinking but coach K continues to evolve his thinking so why not?


If Sean Obi is able to graduate this year, could he take advantage of the "free" transfer to not have to sit out another season if he (not unreasonably) believes that the chances of getting much meaningful playing time over the next two seasons at Duke are very slim? Or would he still have to wait until after next year to do that?

[jipops]

I agree that Chase might still be a full year away, but you never know how much he could improve over the summer. If Amile is gone after this year, we will need him to play significant minutes, especially if Jayson Tatum can't be a 4. In that scenario, it would be very wise to add front court depth. But even if Bolden does commit to Duke, I'm not sure he would be ready for big minutes in year 1 either. I think his development would also likely take some time.

In response to the 2nd half of your post: That's why I said "true post players" in my post, and not "bigs." Ryan Kelly is 6'11" but no one has ever described him as a true post player, and he was definitely not a part of the 2010 rotation. The Plumlees barely were. Unless Bolden has a secret talent for draining 3s, I suspect that he will be playing in the paint much more often than out at the 3 point line, like Kelly. Lance Thomas was capable of defending 4 positions on the court, and was more similar to Justise Winslow position-wise than Brian Zoubek. He played on the perimeter quite a bit defensively, which is not something Bolden will be able to do. Horvath and Christensen played very sparingly, and almost not at all in meaningful games, so I wouldn't consider them true rotation players. If Marques Bolden was looking at Nick Horvath type minutes, I think he'd say no.

Kelly played in 35 games in 2010. I don't think it's fair to say he was DEFINITELY not a part of the rotation, even if his minutes did dwindle as the season went on.

But I get your point too. Simply being the rotation is definitely not the same as playing big minutes. However, if Bolden were the real deal I think there would then be a good chance that Chase would see the same kind of spot rotation duty that Kelly saw in 2010 or maybe as much as the Plumlees saw (who were definitely more than barely a part of the rotation in 2010).

I haven't seen Bolden play at all so I can't judge his play. However, he is ranked about the same as Chase was coming out of high school. And it has been reported that this recruiting class is superior to '15. So a ranking of 15 in 2016 may be a much better player than a ranking of 15 in 2015.

[El_Diablo]

Are you saying that when he steps onto the playing surface, it becomes ...

a kangaroo court?

sorry

Yep, and if kangaroo Jack develops the right leadership skills, he could one day become a captain kangaroo.

I'll see myself out.

[budwom]

If Sean Obi is able to graduate this year, could he take advantage of the "free" transfer to not have to sit out another season if he (not unreasonably) believes that the chances of getting much meaningful playing time over the next two seasons at Duke are very slim? Or would he still have to wait until after next year to do that?

He's only in his third year of college, so I'd be surprised if he could graduate this year.

[mattman91]

He's only in his third year of college, so I'd be surprised if he could graduate this year.

Isn't that exactly what Sheed did last year?

[CoSprings]

well, at least depth won't be a factor next year. Assuming Allen and Ingram jump, we still have an incredibly talented and diverse roster, with again the assumption that Jefferson is back to anchor the defense and be the team leader along with Matt. Next year should be fun!

Welcome to Duke Jack.

[NSDukeFan]

well, at least depth won't be a factor next year. Assuming Allen and Ingram jump, we still have an incredibly talented and diverse roster, with again the assumption that Jefferson is back to anchor the defense and be the team leader along with Matt. Next year should be fun!

Welcome to Duke Jack.

We have always seem to have more depth in the preseason than we have ended up having. I have been with sagegrouse waiting for that 9 man rotation each year, but we haven't seen it lately.

[Pghdukie]

IIRC didn't Jwill also take only 3yrs to earn his degree ?

[jimsumner]

Sulaimon used 2015 summer school to get enough credits to graduate.

Of course, he had a bit of incentive.

Does Obi have that incentive?

I'm not sure I see a path to him getting significant PT at Duke. It just doesn't look like a good match.

He could use up his additional two seasons of eligibility at Duke.

Or he could transfer after the season, sit out a season (for a second time) and play as a fifth-year senior/grad student in 2018.

Or he could play at Duke next season, graduate in May 2017 and play immediately as a grad transfer somewhere else in 2018.

Or, perhaps, he could follow the Sulaimon route, heavy summer school, graduate after the second summer session and play as a grad student somewhere else in 2017.

Four scenarios, two of which free up a scholarship for next season, two of which do not.

I have no special insight into his thinking or the coaching staff's thinking.

As is the case with Jefferson and his injury, whatever is best for Obi should be the paramount concern. Duke owes him that much. IMO.

[El_Diablo]

IIRC didn't Jwill also take only 3yrs to earn his degree ?

YYRC.

[HK Dukie]

In regards to the comparison of Jack White and Marty Pocious...


That's an easy charge to make, but a low blow to our newest recruit. Not good.

I disagree. I absolutely loved Marty. He has had a good European career and won glory for his country in international competitions (world cup bronze for example in 2010). If Jack was as good as Pocious I would be delighted. If he is better, we are in for a real treat.

Oh and let me also congratulate Jack on becoming a Blue Devil. It's gonna be fun!

[CDu]

In regards to the comparison of Jack White and Marty Pocious...



I disagree. I absolutely loved Marty. He has had a good European career and won glory for his country in international competitions (world cup bronze for example in 2010). If Jack was as good as Pocious I would be delighted. If he is better, we are in for a real treat.

Oh and let me also congratulate Jack on becoming a Blue Devil. It's gonna be fun!

Yeah, I agree. Pocius gets a raw deal by some fans because he never could crack the main rotation, mainly because of defensive issues. But he was/is a really good player. It is just really hard to crack the rotation at Duke.

White's high school videos remind me a bit of Olek Czyz. Again, not a guy who cracked the rotation at Duke, but a good player nonetheless.

If White is "only" as good as either Czyz or Pocius, that is still a really good player. If he is better than these guys, even better.

[lotusland]

In regards to the comparison of Jack White and Marty Pocious...



I disagree. I absolutely loved Marty. He has had a good European career and won glory for his country in international competitions (world cup bronze for example in 2010). If Jack was as good as Pocious I would be delighted. If he is better, we are in for a real treat.

Oh and let me also congratulate Jack on becoming a Blue Devil. It's gonna be fun!

Pocious would have gotten his opportunity had he stayed for the 2009-2010 championship year. I don't remember the timing but maybe Dre doesn't reclassify if Marty stays(and maybe Duke doesn't get past Baylor) . Either way he would have played that year and probably be remembered more fondly (much like MP3) although it's not clear that he would have the same impact.

[devildeac]

I don't think I can remember any recruit about whom we've known less. Since he (as far as I know) hasn't
played in the extensive summer AAU circuit, the usual rating gurus haven't seen him except on tape from down under.
Obviously K must have some good info about him.

In other words, we don't know Jack...

[OldPhiKap]

To this old fart, White sounds like Dan Meagher with range. Will absolutely take that.

Better alert Tom Sheehey.

[Edouble]

60696070
Perhaps Jason Evans can weigh in... but I believe this is one of the worst movies of all time. It has an 8% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
But still... possible nickname?

[fraggler]

Yeah, I agree. Pocius gets a raw deal by some fans because he never could crack the main rotation, mainly because of defensive issues. But he was/is a really good player. It is just really hard to crack the rotation at Duke.

White's high school videos remind me a bit of Olek Czyz. Again, not a guy who cracked the rotation at Duke, but a good player nonetheless.

If White is "only" as good as either Czyz or Pocius, that is still a really good player. If he is better than these guys, even better.

Based solely on his international competition vids, Jack plays a lot like Justise. Grabbing boards and going coast to coast through traffic for dunks and layups. Maybe a bit of Dave McClure, too. Seems to have much better ball skills and quickness than Olek ever did. I think he could end up contributing more than Marty and certainly more than Olek, depending on what kind of talent K keeps bringing in.

[Henderson]

Based solely on his international competition vids, Jack plays a lot like Justise. Grabbing boards and going coast to coast through traffic for dunks and layups. Maybe a bit of Dave McClure, too. Seems to have much better ball skills and quickness than Olek ever did. I think he could end up contributing more than Marty and certainly more than Olek, depending on what kind of talent K keeps bringing in.

Mix tapes are so hard to assess. A season worth of sparkles in 4 minutes against unknown competition. But Jack White seems to have quickness, good handle, a decent jump shot, and seems to like to rebound and to play defense. To me, he looks more dynamic than either Marty or Olek. He's got some things to prove before I'd compare him to Justise, but he seems much better than his USA-centric recruiting rankings.

[Clay Feet POF]

http://m.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/victorian-basketballer-jack-white-accepts-duke-university-college-scholarship-20160304-gnausq.html


Thanks

[Olympic Fan]

Mix tapes are so hard to assess. A season worth of sparkles in 4 minutes against unknown competition. But Jack White seems to have quickness, good handle, a decent jump shot, and seems to like to rebound and to play defense. To me, he looks more dynamic than either Marty or Olek. He's got some things to prove before I'd compare him to Justise, but he seems much better than his USA-centric recruiting rankings.

Great observation about judging talent based on mix tape.

One memory -- back around the turn of the century, I was listening to prep guru Bob Gibbons talk about a kid named Tamir Goodman -- dubbed the Jewish Jordan by Sports Illustrated. He had committed to Maryland.

Gibbons had never seen Goodman play in person, but he had seen the kid's tape. He talkd about the kid's playmaking ability (he was a point guard) ... his quickness ... his athleticism. Then the radio host asked Bob about the kid's shooting.

Without a hint of irony or embarrassment, Gibbons said: "From what I saw on the tapes, he's the best outside shooter I've ever seen."

As it turned out Gary withdrew his scholarship offer over Goodman's refusal to break Sabbath (he was Orthodox and wouldn't play on Saturday). As it turned out, he went to Towson State, where he played 42 games in five years and averaged 5.2 points a game (shooting 40.3 percent from the field). I guess the mix tape was a bit misleading in regard to his shooting ability.

[CDu]

Mix tapes are so hard to assess. A season worth of sparkles in 4 minutes against unknown competition. But Jack White seems to have quickness, good handle, a decent jump shot, and seems to like to rebound and to play defense. To me, he looks more dynamic than either Marty or Olek. He's got some things to prove before I'd compare him to Justise, but he seems much better than his USA-centric recruiting rankings.

I don't see much to suggest White is anywhere close to as dynamic as Pocius. That dude could really play offensively in high school. He might be more dynamic than Czyz (might), but he looks like a PF out there. Pocius was a dynamic, extremely athletic guard.

[awhom111]

This article finally explains a bit about how we started recruiting him:
http://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/australian-wing-jack-white-commits-to-duke-university-will-play-for-hall-of-fame-coach-mike-krzyzewski/news-story/2d4c445d995e2ef88c0af20830ee1174

I always thought that the timing was odd since we basically got interested in him at a time when he was not in any kind of season.

In April, Jack is supposed to suit up for the Basketball Australia Centre of Excellence team in the SEABL, which is one of a number of state-level winter semipro (American imports usually start at less than $500 a week) leagues in Australia. I plan on providing updates in the thread with the alum updates although he obviously is not an alum yet.

[whereinthehellami]

Great observation about judging talent based on mix tape.

One memory -- back around the turn of the century, I was listening to prep guru Bob Gibbons talk about a kid named Tamir Goodman -- dubbed the Jewish Jordan by Sports Illustrated. He had committed to Maryland.

Gibbons had never seen Goodman play in person, but he had seen the kid's tape. He talkd about the kid's playmaking ability (he was a point guard) ... his quickness ... his athleticism. Then the radio host asked Bob about the kid's shooting.

Without a hint of irony or embarrassment, Gibbons said: "From what I saw on the tapes, he's the best outside shooter I've ever seen."

As it turned out Gary withdrew his scholarship offer over Goodman's refusal to break Sabbath (he was Orthodox and wouldn't play on Saturday). As it turned out, he went to Towson State, where he played 42 games in five years and averaged 5.2 points a game (shooting 40.3 percent from the field). I guess the mix tape was a bit misleading in regard to his shooting ability.

I remember the Jewish Jordan, good pull. IIRC he was from a really small school, really poor competition.

[westwall]

Duke Blue Devils have added Aussie, Jack White to their 2016 class. White is a 6-6, 230 pound wing player who has until this point played his basketball career in Australia.


He previously was said to be in the 6'6"- 6'7" and 220-230# range, which is Justise-sized, but the new roster lists White at 6'5" and 195. Hmmm.

[CDu]

He previously was said to be in the 6'6"- 6'7" and 220-230# range, which is Justise-sized, but the new roster lists White at 6'5" and 195. Hmmm.

Yeah, the change in size is a bit of a concern (to put it mildly). White's skill set appears to be that of a PF, maybe a stretch-4. At 6'7", 225, he'd be the right size for that role. At 6'5", 195? That's SG territory. And his skill set doesn't seem suited for SG at all.

I've been of the belief that his career path is most likely destined for Pocius/Czyz territory. I.e., there's a chance he could maybe play, but the most likely outcome in my opinion is that of a reserve. That's especially true for me if he really is his listed Duke size.

[SupaDave]

Never did get those SEABL updates so I took a look myself.

He's lighting it up but his team appears to have been garbage. He's one of the top scorers by necessity it seems.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?client=1-3363-0-402777-0&a=STATS&sgroup=scoring&sgstat=Av%20Pts

[devildeac]

He previously was said to be in the 6'6"- 6'7" and 220-230# range, which is Justise-sized, but the new roster lists White at 6'5" and 195. Hmmm.

Error in conversion from meters/cms and kg to feet/inches and pounds?

Different masonry units? (no Plumlee jokes, please :o )

[johnb]

Yeah, the change in size is a bit of a concern (to put it mildly). White's skill set appears to be that of a PF, maybe a stretch-4. At 6'7", 225, he'd be the right size for that role. At 6'5", 195? That's SG territory. And his skill set doesn't seem suited for SG at all.

I've been of the belief that his career path is most likely destined for Pocius/Czyz territory. I.e., there's a chance he could maybe play, but the most likely outcome in my opinion is that of a reserve. That's especially true for me if he really is his listed Duke size.

I don't think we have any real idea what he can bring to the table. Though the Pocius/Czyz comparison may be apt, all international white guys aren't the same. If we're going to make comparisons, I wouldn't want to saddle an incoming guy with comparisons to players who way underperformed at Duke. How about comparing him to Chris Carrawell, who is about White's size; he played inside and out and didn't have a freakish skill set.

[sagegrouse]

Never did get those SEABL updates so I took a look myself.

He's lighting it up but his team appears to have been garbage. He's one of the top scorers by necessity it seems.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?client=1-3363-0-402777-0&a=STATS&sgroup=scoring&sgstat=Av%20Pts

And the stats for Jack are based on three games, while the other leaders have played 14 to 18.

[CDu]

I don't think we have any real idea what he can bring to the table. Though the Pocius/Czyz comparison may be apt, all international white guys aren't the same. If we're going to make comparisons, I wouldn't want to saddle an incoming guy with comparisons to players who way underperformed at Duke. How about comparing him to Chris Carrawell, who is about White's size; he played inside and out and didn't have a freakish skill set.

My reference was originally to Czyz because that is immediately the type of player I saw: tough, aggressive, reasonably athletic, light on skills/polish. He also had a lack of interest from major programs, which only served to strengthen my opinion. And on top of that we are LOADED at his position.

Carrawell on the other hand was a highly-recruited player who suffered significant shoulder injuries in high school that slowed his development. But he was a day-one contributor and 3-year starter, including starting on two of Coach K's best teams ever. Totally different circumstances.

[JasonEvans]

Though the Pocius/Czyz comparison may be apt, all international white guys aren't the same.

Worth noting the Czyz, while being born in Poland, moved to the US before attending high school and spent his entire high school career playing in Reno, Nevada. He's less of an "international" player than you might expect.

As Johnb says, there's plenty of time to figure out what White will be. Odds are extremely small that he sees the court in anything but garbage time as a freshman -- and a redshirt certainly would not shock me.

-Jason "seeing as none of us have seen him play much at all, we are all just speculating about his future role" Evans

[Channing]

My reference was originally to Czyz because that is immediately the type of player I saw: tough, aggressive, reasonably athletic, light on skills/polish. He also had a lack of interest from major programs, which only served to strengthen my opinion. And on top of that we are LOADED at his position.

Carrawell on the other hand was a highly-recruited player who suffered significant shoulder injuries in high school that slowed his development. But he was a day-one contributor and 3-year starter, including starting on two of Coach K's best teams ever. Totally different circumstances.

I may be mis-remembering, but I remember Czyz being unbelievably athletic, to the point where he was arguably the most athletic guy on the roste

[OldPhiKap]

I predict that Jack erupts for 18 during the Blue-White game, causing DBR to self-implode over the remainder of the season.

In all seriousness, I hope Jack works hard and contributes wherever he can on a daily basis. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

[JasonEvans]

Never did get those SEABL updates so I took a look myself.

He's lighting it up but his team appears to have been garbage. He's one of the top scorers by necessity it seems.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?client=1-3363-0-402777-0&a=STATS&sgroup=scoring&sgstat=Av%20Pts

Some intel on the talent level in that league.

The league's leading scorer is Jeremy Kendle who played D-II but was a 2-time All-American at D-II and led his team to the D-II national championship in 2011. Still, not a D1 player.
The second leading scorer is Roy Booker, who played at D-1 SE Missouri St in 2006 and was their leading scorer. So, he's a legit D1 player.
The third leading scorer is Daequon Montreal who played at Boise St and averaged 10 ppg as a senior in 2011.
The fourth leading scorer is Garrett Jackson who played at USC and St. Mary's. He left college in 2015.
The fifth leading scorer is Gary Johnson who was a double-digit scorer at Texas before graduating in 2011.

So, Jack White is largely playing with men, mostly 5-10 years older than he is. The guys he is playing with were largely decent-good players at mid-majors. I'd say that is a pretty encouraging thing in terms of the talent in the league and bodes well for Jack to be a solid contributor at Duke. Yes, his team was bad, but I like the fact that he scored very efficiently shooting quite well from 3 (44%) and at the FT line (87.5%).

-Jason "I love that he is playing well against dudes who are much older -- any time an 18 year old can compete with a 25 year old and succeed, it is a good sign" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I may be mis-remembering, but I remember Czyz being unbelievably athletic, to the point where he was arguably the most athletic guy on the roste


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmwt_EImo90

[CDu]

I may be mis-remembering, but I remember Czyz being unbelievably athletic, to the point where he was arguably the most athletic guy on the roste

He was a good leaper and dunker, but not terribly quick or agile.

[MChambers]

I predict that Jack erupts for 18 during the Blue-White game, causing DBR to self-implode over the remainder of the season.

In all seriousness, I hope Jack works hard and contributes wherever he can on a daily basis. It is a marathon, not a sprint.
Word from the Southern Hemisphere is that White matched up against former Devil and now New Zealander Nick Horvath and absolutely destroyed him. In the summer, too. Not sure which hemisphere's summer, however.

[BD80]

I may be mis-remembering, but I remember Czyz being unbelievably athletic, to the point where he was arguably the most athletic guy on the roste

Czyz once dunked so hard he shattered the backboard at the other end of the court

[westwall]

So, Jack White is largely playing with men, mostly 5-10 years older than he is. The guys he is playing with were largely decent-good players at mid-majors. I'd say that is a pretty encouraging thing in terms of the talent in the league and bodes well for Jack to be a solid contributor at Duke. Yes, his team was bad, but I like the fact that he scored very efficiently shooting quite well from 3 (44%) and at the FT line (87.5%).

The 44% on 3-pointers looks even better when it is realized that the 3-point line in Australia (6.75 meters) roughly corresponds to the NBA line.
http://www.dsr.wa.gov.au/support-and-advice/facility-management/developing-facilities/dimensions-guide/sport-specific-dimensions/basketball

[Saratoga2]

Some intel on the talent level in that league.

The league's leading scorer is Jeremy Kendle who played D-II but was a 2-time All-American at D-II and led his team to the D-II national championship in 2011. Still, not a D1 player.
The second leading scorer is Roy Booker, who played at D-1 SE Missouri St in 2006 and was their leading scorer. So, he's a legit D1 player.
The third leading scorer is Daequon Montreal who played at Boise St and averaged 10 ppg as a senior in 2011.
The fourth leading scorer is Garrett Jackson who played at USC and St. Mary's. He left college in 2015.
The fifth leading scorer is Gary Johnson who was a double-digit scorer at Texas before graduating in 2011.

So, Jack White is largely playing with men, mostly 5-10 years older than he is. The guys he is playing with were largely decent-good players at mid-majors. I'd say that is a pretty encouraging thing in terms of the talent in the league and bodes well for Jack to be a solid contributor at Duke. Yes, his team was bad, but I like the fact that he scored very efficiently shooting quite well from 3 (44%) and at the FT line (87.5%).

-Jason "I love that he is playing well against dudes who are much older -- any time an 18 year old can compete with a 25 year old and succeed, it is a good sign" Evans

Excellent post. I see no reason to bad mouth a player who was recruited by our staff and may indeed be able to help the team in the coming season(s). The kid has some ability but will be on a really good team and the competition for PT will be tough.

[CDu]

Excellent post. I see no reason to bad mouth a player who was recruited by our staff and may indeed be able to help the team in the coming season(s). The kid has some ability but will be on a really good team and the competition for PT will be tough.

Why is it badmouthing the kid to say that he might not have what it takes to crack the rotation with one of the absolute best programs in all of basketball?

[tbyers11]

Why is it badmouthing the kid to say that he might not have what it takes to crack the rotation with one of the absolute best programs in all of basketball?

Because we really know nothing about him apart from some measurables.

In general, I agree that it is not badmouthing a recruit from outside the top 50 to say that he might not crack the rotation at Duke.

However, in this case, I am withholding judgement until I see him play or hear comments from a reliable source that has seen him play (Adam Rowe, for example).

[devilnfla]

He previously was said to be in the 6'6"- 6'7" and 220-230# range, which is Justise-sized, but the new roster lists White at 6'5" and 195. Hmmm.

Justise is a lot closer to 6'5" than he is 6'7".

[CDu]

Because we really know nothing about him apart from some measurables.

In general, I agree that it is not badmouthing a recruit from outside the top 50 to say that he might not crack the rotation at Duke.

However, in this case, I am withholding judgement until I see him play or hear comments from a reliable source that has seen him play (Adam Rowe, for example).

I disagree. It is not badmouthing regardless of his prospect rating. Being skeptical of a player's readiness/ability to contribute at Duke is not badmouthing. Saying "he is garbage" or "he stinks" would be an example of badmouthing.

[johnb]

I disagree. It is not badmouthing regardless of his prospect rating. Being skeptical of a player's readiness/ability to contribute at Duke is not badmouthing. Saying "he is garbage" or "he stinks" would be an example of badmouthing.

Why assume a career on the bench for a guy you've never seen? I don't understand how that's helpful. Sure, we all know that a guy outside the top 50 is unlikely to crack our starting line up this year, but a) the rating system surely doesn't pay much attention to Australians, and b) the coaches are presumably much more interested in him as an upperclassman and would not have offered a scholarship to someone unlikely to ever contribute.

I guess i feel like we should give our own guys the benefit of the doubt, especially when the skill set is so uncertain--and since he could be reading these online critiques.

[awhom111]

Never did get those SEABL updates so I took a look myself.

He's lighting it up but his team appears to have been garbage. He's one of the top scorers by necessity it seems.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?client=1-3363-0-402777-0&a=STATS&sgroup=scoring&sgstat=Av%20Pts

There were some SEABL updates in the Hooping Overseas thread, but as mentioned, he only played three games so they may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

The team is not very good this season (they were nothing special last season either), but that is by design. It's a team associated with the Basketball Australia Centre of Excellence that allows their young players to practice together and play against tougher older competition. Jack is actually the oldest member of the team with many of the others likely to come here to play in college in a year or two. The other teams in the league generally have at least one player who plays in the national league that is the highest level in Australia and at least two American players, most of whom also play in Europe during the rest of the season. Unfortunately Jack probably would have gotten a few more games with a different team even if it might have meant fewer minutes since the team had a funky schedule to accomodate the youth national teams.

[CDu]

Why assume a career on the bench for a guy you've never seen? I don't understand how that's helpful. Sure, we all know that a guy outside the top 50 is unlikely to crack our starting line up this year, but a) the rating system surely doesn't pay much attention to Australians, and b) the coaches are presumably much more interested in him as an upperclassman and would not have offered a scholarship to someone unlikely to ever contribute.

I guess i feel like we should give our own guys the benefit of the doubt, especially when the skill set is so uncertain--and since he could be reading these online critiques.

We can't really give all of our own guys the benefit of the doubt though. Somebody is not going to play. In fact, multiple somebodies aren't going to play. That is just the way of the world with Duke basketball: 6 or 7 guys will get siginificant run, 1 or 2 more will see regular but limited minutes, and the rest play only in garbage time.

And I am not sure why thinking a player is unlikely to see time is any less "helpful" than giving every player the benefit of the doubt. This is all meaningless speculation on a message board. Saying "I think so-and-so will not likely crack the rotation" and saying "I think so-and-so will likely be an impact player" really don't mean much of anything. They are just opinions from anonymous message board members.

I am just saying how I think the roster will play out with respect to White based on the information I have. I could certainly be wrong (it has happened before ;)). But that is just the opinion I have. You are more than welcome to have a different opinion of White's future at Duke. But I am not badmouthing him by saying I think his game may be a step below Duke quality.

[sagegrouse]

I disagree. It is not badmouthing regardless of his prospect rating. Being skeptical of a player's readiness/ability to contribute at Duke is not badmouthing. Saying "he is garbage" or "he stinks" would be an example of badmouthing.

No, it isn't bad-mouthing," but it is not overly respectful of a Duke recruit. Fact is, I don't think anyone of us have any idea how good Jack White is now or will be. He looked reasonably good in his highlight tapes, as I recall. So, skeptics are probably right, but as John Wooden said when reporters were baiting him that Bill Walton was nowhere near as good as Lew Alcindor, "You may be right, but don't you be too sure about it."

[gep]

...

I am just saying how I think the roster will play out with respect to White based on the information I have. I could certainly be wrong (it has happened before ;)). But that is just the opinion I have. You are more than welcome to have a different opinion of White's future at Duke. But I am not badmouthing him by saying I think his game may be a step below Duke quality.

Serious question... would the Duke coaching staff extend a scholarship to a player who is "a step below Duke quality"? I'm not so sure. Maybe not the top of "Duke quality", and maybe near the bottom of "Duke quality", but he must be "qualified"...:confused:


No, it isn't bad-mouthing," but it is not overly respectful of a Duke recruit. Fact is, I don't think anyone of us have any idea how good Jack White is now or will be. He looked reasonably good in his highlight tapes, as I recall. So, skeptics are probably right, but as John Wooden said when reporters were baiting him that Bill Walton was nowhere near as good as Lew Alcindor, "You may be right, but don't you be too sure about it."

Agreed with this...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

We can't really give all of our own guys the benefit of the doubt though. Somebody is not going to play. In fact, multiple somebodies aren't going to play. That is just the way of the world with Duke basketball: 6 or 7 guys will get siginificant run, 1 or 2 more will see regular but limited minutes, and the rest play only in garbage time.


I disagree. I am fairly certain that 12 guys will get at least 30mpg.

[subzero02]

If anyone can give our incoming players advice about staying positive and being ready to step up if necessary even if you are only playing in garbage time, it is Grayson Allen.

[CDu]

Serious question... would the Duke coaching staff extend a scholarship to a player who is "a step below Duke quality"? I'm not so sure. Maybe not the top of "Duke quality", and maybe near the bottom of "Duke quality", but he must be "qualified"...:confused:

Agreed with this...

Recruiting isn't an exact science, and there have been misses by the staff before. Even among US-based players.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I find myself with CDu on this. We can't assume that every recruit coming in is going to be the next Brandon Ingram. Many will be Demarcus Nelsons (rotation players as frosh), some will be Ingrams (stars), some will be Chase Jeters (did not live up to recruiting expectations), some will be Justise Winslows (surpass expectations), some will be Grayson Allens (not expected to be a rotation player and isn't a rotation player), some will be Vranks (not highly recruited players who...guess what...don't provide a lot of in-game value), few will be Derryck Thorntons (transfers), and many will play defense like Jabari and Jah (:().

As a fan site, I do not think there is anything wrong with speculating who will be who. We know a few things, like Coach K will play a shortened rotation and 4 of the 5 starting positions are locked up, but for everything else, there is DBR. We should discuss, we should be respectful, and we shouldn't badmouth. And CDu discussed, he was respectful, and he didn't badmouth. I too believe that White will not be an impact player at his time at Duke. He will be a valued player who likely practices well, but he isn't going to have a Grayson Allen-like career progression. Consider the following:

1) He isn't North American. There are few international players who make an impact on the college scene. Especially during their first 2 years in college.
2) Duke and Kentucky can get nearly any player they desire (for Duke, this has only been the case for the last 3-4 years or so). It means that the days when Coach K played extensive minutes for Tyler Thorntons and David McClures are likely over (Matt Jones and Amile Jefferson are much more talented than Thornton or McClure). If Duke needs talent, it will recruit. How long will this recruiting tear last? No idea, but I suspect for as long as Coach K's heading up the program.
3) Jack White isn't highly rated. According to RSCI, there were only 2 true non-North American players: Moritz Wagner (ranked 98) and this guy named Ben Simmons (American parents, however). Jack White may have been cream-of-the-crop in Australia (well, outside of Ben Simmons), but the US is so much more talented in basketball than the rest of the world.
4) According to 24/7, White had offers from powerhouses Albany, Boise State, Loyola Marymount, Mercer, and this school called Duke. If he's high-impact, then no one was it. Furthermore, given Duke's not-great track record with true international players (or lack thereof), it's tough to suggest that Duke recruited White because they had the "inside scope" or something like that.

[DukieInBrasil]

I find myself with CDu on this. We can't assume that every recruit coming in is going to be the next Brandon Ingram. Many will be Demarcus Nelsons (rotation players as frosh), some will be Ingrams (stars), some will be Chase Jeters (did not live up to recruiting expectations), some will be Justise Winslows (surpass expectations), some will be Grayson Allens (not expected to be a rotation player and isn't a rotation player), some will be Vranks (not highly recruited players who...guess what...don't provide a lot of in-game value), few will be Derryck Thorntons (transfers), and many will play defense like Jabari and Jah (:().

As a fan site, I do not think there is anything wrong with speculating who will be who. We know a few things, like Coach K will play a shortened rotation and 4 of the 5 starting positions are locked up, but for everything else, there is DBR. We should discuss, we should be respectful, and we shouldn't badmouth. And CDu discussed, he was respectful, and he didn't badmouth. I too believe that White will not be an impact player at his time at Duke. He will be a valued player who likely practices well, but he isn't going to have a Grayson Allen-like career progression. Consider the following:

1) He isn't North American. There are few international players who make an impact on the college scene. Especially during their first 2 years in college.
2) Duke and Kentucky can get nearly any player they desire (for Duke, this has only been the case for the last 3-4 years or so). It means that the days when Coach K played extensive minutes for Tyler Thorntons and David McClures are likely over (Matt Jones and Amile Jefferson are much more talented than Thornton or McClure). If Duke needs talent, it will recruit. How long will this recruiting tear last? No idea, but I suspect for as long as Coach K's heading up the program.
3) Jack White isn't highly rated. According to RSCI, there were only 2 true non-North American players: Moritz Wagner (ranked 98) and this guy named Ben Simmons (American parents, however). Jack White may have been cream-of-the-crop in Australia (well, outside of Ben Simmons), but the US is so much more talented in basketball than the rest of the world.
4) According to 24/7, White had offers from powerhouses Albany, Boise State, Loyola Marymount, Mercer, and this school called Duke. If he's high-impact, then no one was it. Furthermore, given Duke's not-great track record with true international players (or lack thereof), it's tough to suggest that Duke recruited White because they had the "inside scope" or something like that.

Duke got this guy named Luol Deng, he was from Sudan, via England. Marty Pocius was an amazing athlete, who couldn't play defense, from Lithuania. I don't disagree withe rest of your post, just wanted to point out that Duke's track record isn't terrible.

[CDu]

Duke got this guy named Luol Deng, he was from Sudan, via England. Marty Pocius was an amazing athlete, who couldn't play defense, from Lithuania. I don't disagree withe rest of your post, just wanted to point out that Duke's track record isn't terrible.

There is a difference between being born in another country Deng played his high school ball in the US and was considered the #2 recruit in the country (behind LeBron James) at the time. Pocius also played high school in the US as well and was a top-50 recruit. So while they were international players, they were also sort of Americanized players. Their paths to Duke were quite different from White's, who is a true international player in every sense.

[Ichabod Drain]

We can't assume that every recruit coming in is going to be the next Brandon Ingram. .

Well crap.

[devilseven]

After all these negative comments and evaluations by our resident panel of experts. I pose this question: Why on earth did Duke offer and sign Jack White to a $250,000+ basketball scholarship?

[CDu]

After all these negative comments and evaluations by our resident panel of experts. I pose this question: Why on earth did Duke offer and sign Jack White to a $250,000+ basketball scholarship?

There have been no negative comments!

And as to your question, there could be lots of reasons:
- they want a developmental guy that they hope can develop into a contributor by career's end (the Vrankovic recruit)
- they want to make sure they have a solid practice player for continuity given the year-to-year turnover (the Andre Buckner recruit)
- they just misevaluated (it happens)
- I could be wrong in my evaluation (it happens)

[flyingdutchdevil]

After all these negative comments and evaluations by our resident panel of experts. I pose this question: Why on earth did Duke offer and sign Jack White to a $250,000+ basketball scholarship?

Hahaha. Thanks for reference as "resident panel of experts". You should post more.

This is a low-risk, low-reward recruit. Not the first, and certainly not the last. Vrank, McClure, Boateng - they all fall into this bucket. Some add a lot of value in the rotation, like McClure. Some transfer, like Boateng. Some are likely to ride the pine for at least of couple of years, like Vrank.

Let's not act like White is a top 10 recruit. He's not, and he knows that. You think Coach K said, "with your talent, you are likely to play plenty of minutes as a freshman. If not, sophomore."? Of course not! Coach K probably said something along the lines of, "if you work really hard and improve, you have a chance of breaking the rotation. But it's not a given. Don't expect to play without that hard work."

And, to answer your question, as to why offer a scholarship? Low-risk, low-reward recruit. He'll be here for 4 years (barring no transfer). He could be a great locker room guy. He could have one skillset that is incredible but needs to improve his other areas of the game. Coach K has 13 scholarships. Coach K will never use all these scholarship players. And with his new approach of OAD, Coach K can replenish the pipeline fast.

Look, CDu and I aren't saying that we don't want White to succeed nor be a part of the future. We want him to succeed. Hell, if White is the next Steph Curry, awesome! But we are trying to be realistic based on the his ranking, his lack of playing time in the US, his lack of interest from other schools, and his smaller-than-expected weight and height.

[Listen to Quants]

There have been no negative comments!

And as to your question, there could be lots of reasons:
- they want a developmental guy that they hope can develop into a contributor by career's end (the Vrankovic recruit)
- they want to make sure they have a solid practice player for continuity given the year-to-year turnover (the Andre Buckner recruit)
- they just misevaluated (it happens)
- I could be wrong in my evaluation (it happens)

Yes. And as additional value of your first reason: sometimes a 'patch' is suddenly required for a otherwise great team. Twice now, in the last 6 years, Duke has asked recruits to reclassify in order to patch a sudden blow-out of the depth chart. Stuff happens and a national championship can depend upon that patch (A. Dawkins; arguably). Even if White never becomes a Duke-starter level player, he might be very valuable.

[Kedsy]

After all these negative comments and evaluations by our resident panel of experts. I pose this question: Why on earth did Duke offer and sign Jack White to a $250,000+ basketball scholarship?

First of all, CDu's original quote was, "there's a chance he could maybe play, but the most likely outcome in my opinion is that of a reserve." Personally, I don't see how people could possibly construe that as a "negative comment [and/or] evaluation."

Second, are you suggesting Coach K would never offer a scholarship to someone likely to be a career reserve? Really?

Here's a partial list of three or four year Duke scholarship players under Coach K who averaged fewer than 4 starts per year (i.e., career reserves): Andre Buckner (0 career starts); Weldon Williams (0); George Burgin (0); Joe Cook (0); Clay Buckley (1); Marty Pocius (2); Matt Christensen (3); Marty Nessley (5); Tony Moore (6); Marty Clark (9); Crawford Palmer (9); Kenny Blakeney (11); Carmen Wallace (11); Nick Horvath (11).

Here's a partial list of three or four year Duke scholarship players under Coach K who averaged fewer than 400 minutes per year (i.e., career reserves): George Burgin (93 career minutes); Andre Buckner (260); Joe Cook (268); Weldon Williams (369); Clay Buckley (439); Tony Moore (456); Marty Pocius (532); Crawford Palmer (670); Marty Nessley (731); Matt Christensen (751); Carmen Wallace (927); Kenny Blakeney (1065); Josh Hairston (1139); Nick Horvath (1193).

Here's a partial list of Duke scholarship players under Coach K who transferred, but who would likely have been career reserves if they'd finished their careers at Duke: Christian Ast; Joey Beard; Crawford Palmer; Andre Sweet; Michael Thompson; Eric Boateng; Jamal Boykin; Olek Czyz; Alex Murphy; Semi Ojeleye.

And, at the risk of being accused of making a negative comment, by the time they're done, Sean Obi and Antonio Vrankovic will probably be on one or two of the lists above, as well.

Some guys come to Duke expecting to be a regular and just aren't good enough. Some of those stick around anyway; others transfer once they realize they aren't going to play much. Some guys get caught on deep teams and never quite get there. Other guys know they'll probably be career reserves and are OK with it. And some guys are expected to be reserves and surprise everyone by becoming regular rotation players or even starters.

No matter which category Jack White falls into, it's not a bad thing to be a career reserve, especially at a great place like Duke.

[kAzE]

Seems like an excessive amount of debate over someone who none of us know much about.

I posted originally that I thought Jack looked like a scrappy rebounding/defensive type of player who could develop into a rotation player by year 3 as a defensive specialist, especially if he can consistently knock down open shots. This view was met with criticism bordering on ridicule on this forum, but I still stand by that. He just looks like a tough competitor, and most coaches like guys like that. That's what I saw in him. I think the Pocius/Czyz comparisons are lazy, and that neither of those guys play as hard as Jack seemingly does, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know (much about) Jack, either.

So who cares what anyone thinks he can or can't do? He's going to do what he's going to do, and we can talk about it after we see him.

Isn't this supposed to be a thread welcoming Jack to Duke? Seems premature to be prophesying his role over his tenure here.

[devilseven]

I agree. He's our guy. Why don't we wait until we actually see him play before we start telling him what he's not, what he likely will never be, and what he can't do.

[GGLC]

Here's a partial list of three or four year Duke scholarship players under Coach K who averaged fewer than 4 starts per year (i.e., career reserves): <snip> Carmen Wallace (11)

Here's a partial list of three or four year Duke scholarship players under Coach K who averaged fewer than 400 minutes per year (i.e., career reserves): <snip> Carmen Wallace (927)

CLAP CLAP CLAP-CLAP-CLAP

(just goes to show that you can be a beloved fan favorite -- and add a bunch of value to the program, of course -- without playing many minutes; if Jack White ends up even half as beloved as Wallace, he'll be doing just fine)

[CDu]

I agree. He's our guy. Why don't we wait until we actually see him play before we start telling him what he's not, what he likely will never be, and what he can't do.

Nobody is telling him what he is/is not. We are saying what we think will likely happen. Totally different things. It's a message board. We speculate about things because, for some of us, it's fun to debate (with specifics) what we think the team will look like this year and in the coming years. Sometimes the speculation is glowing. Sometimes it's okay. Sometimes it's not entirely glowing. Ideally, it's not negative (though in rare circumstances it can be). The speculation regarding White is somewhere between okay and not entirely glowing: neither glowing nor negative.

It's weird that discussion of this particular signee has gotten so much backlash compared with the signings of Vrankovic, Czyz, Boykin, McClure, etc., over the years. I don't think there has been unreasonable discussion any moreso than any of those other cases.

[jimsumner]

At the time of his signing with Duke, White was described to me as roughly analogous to Marty Clark and Lee Melchionni, both in terms of style and of impact.

Neither Clark nor Melchionni played much as underclassmen, although Clark was important coming off the bench late against IU in the '92 FF.

But both became rotation players as upperclassmen, on some pretty good teams.

I could see that kind of career arc for White.

[flyingdutchdevil]

At the time of his signing with Duke, White was described to me as roughly analogous to Marty Clark and Lee Melchionni, both in terms of style and of impact.

Neither Clark nor Melchionni played much as underclassmen, although Clark was important coming off the bench late against IU in the '92 FF.

But both became rotation players as upperclassmen, on some pretty good teams.

I could see that kind of career arc for White.

And I think if White becomes a Clark or a Melchionni, that would absolutely be successful recruit given White's recruiting position.

But it's important to take into consideration that times have changed. Coach K can recruit OADs at a rate that he never has before. Recruits - moreso than ever - are so excited and eager to play for Duke. He can "reload". This means that the rotation players of yesterday may not be on par with the rotation players of today.

[Spanarkel]

1) He isn't North American. There are few international players who make an impact on the college scene. Especially during their first 2 years in college.

Not sure that this assertion is defensible. 2013-'14 UConn's title winners had 4 non-North Americans, 2 in the top 6 of the rotation. 2016 NBA Draft saw 26 international players(some Canadian)taken in first two rounds( and realizing that a number of these top talents never player NCAA D1 hoops). Sabonis of Gonzaga and Poetl of Utah were impact players in their freshman years...

[jimmymax]

If speculation was not permitted on this site the DBR could save 50% on server disk space. You have to mix in some four year guys with the anticipated one-and-dones. Just because Duke has been fortunate as of late to get almost every recruit targeted doesn't mean every freshman that shows up at Duke is going to be an immediate star -- some need a little seasoning. Here's hoping the kids in this category can see that big picture and persevere until their their time comes.

[phaedrus]

Not sure that this assertion is defensible. 2013-'14 UConn's title winners had 4 non-North Americans, 2 in the top 6 of the rotation. 2016 NBA Draft saw 26 international players(some Canadian)taken in first two rounds( and realizing that a number of these top talents never player NCAA D1 hoops). Sabonis of Gonzaga and Poetl of Utah were impact players in their freshman years...

And Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, and Buddy Hield.

Did any non-international players have an impact this year?

[flyingdutchdevil]

And Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, and Buddy Hield.

Did any non-international players have an impact this year?

Nope. None. All of college basketball is international.

Interesting that all three players you mentioned played high school ball in North America (two in the US, one in Canada).

[NSDukeFan]

And Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, and Buddy Hield.

Did any non-international players have an impact this year?

There was that tall, skinny guy at Duke. ;)

[Jim3k]

Matthew Dellavedova. White is taking essentially the same path as Dellavedova. Dellavedova played in the same league in Australia, the SEABL. He was then recruited by St. Mary's College (Calif.) where he had an immediate impact and played four years. He was even the West Coast Conference Player of the Year in 2012. St. Mary's retired his number.

And his impact has continued into the NBA with Cleveland. I understand the Bucks are making a play for him as I write.

So maybe it is better to cheer White on than to speculate that he will be a bench player. After all, he is probably reading this and wondering, "What the hey? What kind of welcome am I getting? Is the Duke community that judgmental?"

I ain't claiming White is going to be another Dellavedova. But there's certainly no reason to count him out at this stage. Let him show what he can do on the court first.

[CDu]

Matthew Dellavedova. White is taking essentially the same path as Dellavedova. Dellavedova played in the same league in Australia, the SEABL. He was then recruited by St. Mary's College (Calif.) where he had an immediate impact and played four years. He was even the West Coast Conference Player of the Year in 2012. St. Mary's retired his number.

And his impact has continued into the NBA with Cleveland. I understand the Bucks are making a play for him as I write.

So maybe it is better to cheer White on than to speculate that he will be a bench player. After all, he is probably reading this and wondering, "What the hey? What kind of welcome am I getting? Is the Duke community that judgmental?"

I ain't claiming White is going to be another Dellavedova. But there's certainly no reason to count him out at this stage. Let him show what he can do on the court first.

Nobody is counting him out. We are all cheering for him. We can have expectations while also hoping he exceeds them. Having certain expectations does not preclude me from cheering for him.

I have been a Cubs fan basically all of my life. Most years that has meant expecting a bad result but hoping to be surprised. I certainly hope White is great. I just am expecting him to have trouble cracking the regular rotation. I will be quite happy to be wrong.

[Pghdukie]

Hey CDu, The Cubs will be just fine. DO you have enough players in All-Star Game ? If White can corral his ego and learn the Duke team game, he will be just fine. Just not right away. K offered him a scholly that can benefit him on the court - and a degree from Duke that can put tears in Calipari's eyes.

[Ichabod Drain]

From recent interview with Blue Devil Lair on 247, Jack was planning on being in Durham for the second summer session of classes but he had some visa issues and won't be at Duke until that start of classes in August. That sucks.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Nope. None. All of college basketball is international.

Interesting that all three players you mentioned played high school ball in North America (two in the US, one in Canada).

I was going to note that there's not any sort of "international players suck" bias that makes any sense in today's basketball universe, but that I think it's fair to say that it's very difficult to evaluate international players because of the very wide disparity in the level of high school competition. Beyond that, this discussion seems to be uncomfortably close to "will Jack White be a bench-warmer or a SUPER bench-warmer?" I'd like to see the kid in uniform before we make any sort of value judgments on him.

[OldPhiKap]

I was going to note that there's not any sort of "international players suck" bias that makes any sense in today's basketball universe, but that I think it's fair to say that it's very difficult to evaluate international players because of the very wide disparity in the level of high school competition. Beyond that, this discussion seems to be uncomfortably close to "will Jack White be a bench-warmer or a SUPER bench-warmer?" I'd like to see the kid in uniform before we make any sort of value judgments on him.

Me too. And freshman year is not equivalent to senior year either.

If he develops over four years, works hard in practice, executes his role when on the floor, and becomes a leader within the team -- that's a success for any player. And the kind of kid that is desperately needed in a world of one-and-dones.

[JasonEvans]

Someone needs to go back a couple years and find what most of us were saying about Marshall Plumlee when he was a freshman or a soph at Duke. Kid has a guaranteed NBA contract today and was a very legit NCAA post player last season. who saw that coming?

[kAzE]

Someone needs to go back a couple years and find what most of us were saying about Marshall Plumlee when he was a freshman or a soph at Duke. Kid has a guaranteed NBA contract today and was a very legit NCAA post player last season. who saw that coming?

Me! :D

I'll have to go back and find some posts from 2014 . . .

Here's a thread with some good Marshall banter: http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?32774-Jay-Bilas-Top-68-Teams-(1-7-2014)&highlight=marshall+plumlee

[kAzE]

Here's the thread. (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?32587-Article-on-Marshall-Plumlee-s-Progress)


I've been saying forever the kid needs to just calm down a little bit. For guys like him, it's all about trying hard, but not trying TOO hard.

I find it a little ridiculous that Strelow writes "Plumlee likely has a lower ceiling than his brothers." He's been sidelined by a pretty serious injury, so that's unfair. He's obviously not where his brothers were at this point in their Duke careers, but that has nothing to do with his ceiling. I think he has the potential to be as good as Miles, although he needs to hit the weights a bit harder to get on his level physically. I'm extremely optimistic about MP3 as an important part of the rotation for the next 2 years. If he stays healthy, he could come close to being a double double guy as a senior and I think he'll definitely be on a NBA roster someday, for his size and athleticism alone.

This year is still up in the air, but the quicker he gets there, the better off the team will be. We just need him to play 5-10 good minutes a game this year. If he could come in and be annoying on defense, grab a couple boards, maybe stick in an easy dunk here or there, I'd be pretty happy with that.

This was from December 13th 2013. And I couldn't believe my eyes . . . Kedsy actually agreed with me!

[phaedrus]

Here's the thread. (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?32587-Article-on-Marshall-Plumlee-s-Progress)



This was from December 13th 2013. And I couldn't believe my eyes . . . Kedsy actually agreed with me!

Just don't compare Plumlee with Zoubek.

[Kedsy]

This was from December 13th 2013. And I couldn't believe my eyes . . . Kedsy actually agreed with me!

See? I'm not all bad.

And I hope we were both right about this one.