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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs Wake (Tue, 3/1, 8 pm, ACC Network) Pre-game and In-game Thread



gumbomoop
02-29-2016, 10:39 AM
Hope this is a good time to start Wake thread, and look forward.

Importing a comment here from Pitt postgame thread:


... we seemed better when it was Luke handling the ball and initiating the offense. Unfortunately, he seems a little uncomfortable in a lead role and needs to be encouraged to be more aggressive.

Although I don't think Luke generally lacks confidence, I have thought all season that he's more effective with the ball in his hands a bit more. But I can hardly complain that we're weak when Brandon and Ingram dominate the ball, as they've been excellent.

For the Wake game, specifically, however, I think a little more of the ball in Luke's hands would be wise. And more generally for Wake -- the real point of this post -- I hope Luke and Derryck will be the 37+ minute guys, with all of Marshall, Grayson, Brandon, and Matt being rested a lot more. They were tired yesterday.

I know there has been a long-standing and often testy debate on EK about whether Krzyzewski's sometimes short bench winds up exhausting our guys by late-season. I'm not trying here to reignite that debate, but I assume most would agree that Marshall, Brandon, Grayson, and Matt could use more rest against Wake, in hopes that they'll be physically and emotionally revived for the Heels. If we can end the regular season with 2 wins, our guys will certainly get a psychological boost, and just possibly an extra day's rest going into the ACCT.

So for Wake, I'd love to see Kennard start, or enter the game before the first under-timeout, stay on the floor, and have the ball a lot more. He has more PG-type skills than anyone else, and he delights -- angry-fist-in-air -- when he gets an assist. [Chase, btw, and Marshall, too, must be alert, because Luke will get them the ball in a good spot.] Derryck, not Matt, should bring the ball up, but let Luke have it a bit more -- not always, just more often -- to initiate the offense.

Again, without intending to restart the insufferable "minutes" debate, I hope K will consciously "limit" the minutes of our look-tired players to ~ 28 each just for tomorrow night. So that the minutes would look something like this:

Kennard 37
Thornton 37
Plumlee 28
Allen 28
Jones 28
ingram 28
Jeter 14

I'm perfectly aware that Devin Thomas can be a big problem, so K would have to play Marshall a bit more if necessary. And if playing Grayson, Brandon, and Matt fewer minutes in the first half allows Wake to be a threat, well, sure, the strategy has to be modified in the second half. But our big-minute guys will stay play most of the game. It's just that Luke and Derryck might be the most capable, for this one specific game, in this specific exhaustion-moment, of being the workhorses.

And it's not as if having the ball in Luke's hands -- a little more, not every play -- portends disaster. As Capel said, "He either shoots it or moves it." Or drives it.

CDu
02-29-2016, 11:00 AM
Wake has some talented players, but they are poorly coached and lack discipline.

We all know about Devin Thomas. Lots of talent, but a head case. He has torched us numerous times, but usually that happens at the Joel. Hopefully his struggles in Cameron continue.

Wake also has a pair of dynamic guards in Crawford and Miller-McIntyre. Miller-McIntyre has had an awful year thanks to an early-season injury. But he's finally found his stride averaging 15.4 ppg and 5.2 apg in his last 5 games. Crawford has basically matched that production (14.4ppg and 5.2 apg) in that same stretch. The two now make for one of the most talented backcourts in the conference.

The problem for Wake is that they get very little from anyone else. Mitoglou is sort of like a sophomore-year version of Ryan Kelly - capable of monster games from the outside here and there, but underwhelming on the season as a whole. They then have a serious of interchangeable, mediocre parts at wing.

If we can contain their two star guards and keep Thomas under control, we should win. But Wake is like the low-skilled knockout artist. They still have 3 All-ACC level players, so they stand a puncher's chance in any single game.

We need this game badly. Losing this game puts us at risk of falling as far down as the 8 seed in the ACC. Winning it doesn't get us out of the woods, but goes a long way towards locking us into a top-5 seed.

FerryFor50
02-29-2016, 11:05 AM
Wake has some talented players, but they are poorly coached and lack discipline.

We all know about Devin Thomas. Lots of talent, but a head case. He has torched us numerous times, but usually that happens at the Joel. Hopefully his struggles in Cameron continue.

Wake also has a pair of dynamic guards in Crawford and Miller-McIntyre. Miller-McIntyre has had an awful year thanks to an early-season injury. But he's finally found his stride averaging 15.4 ppg and 5.2 apg in his last 5 games. Crawford has basically matched that production (14.4ppg and 5.2 apg) in that same stretch. The two now make for one of the most talented backcourts in the conference.

The problem for Wake is that they get very little from anyone else. Mitoglou is sort of like a sophomore-year version of Ryan Kelly - capable of monster games from the outside here and there, but underwhelming on the season as a whole. They then have a serious of interchangeable, mediocre parts at wing.

If we can contain their two star guards and keep Thomas under control, we should win. But Wake is like the low-skilled knockout artist. They still have 3 All-ACC level players, so they stand a puncher's chance in any single game.

We need this game badly. Losing this game puts us at risk of falling as far down as the 8 seed in the ACC. Winning it doesn't get us out of the woods, but goes a long way towards locking us into a top-5 seed.

Well, in Duke's favor, Cornelius Hudson was kicked off the team. He scored 12 points last time against Duke and hit 3 of Wake's 5 threes.

But like CDu said, they are pretty poorly coached.

Hopefully this is a bounce back game and not one of those "looking ahead to UNC" games.

Dukehky
02-29-2016, 11:16 AM
First game in Cameron in a few years. Pretty pumped, hope we get the W.

CDu
02-29-2016, 11:18 AM
Well, in Duke's favor, Cornelius Hudson was kicked off the team. He scored 12 points last time against Duke and hit 3 of Wake's 5 threes.

But like CDu said, they are pretty poorly coached.

Hopefully this is a bounce back game and not one of those "looking ahead to UNC" games.

Yeah, I forgot about Hudson's dismissal. He was in the conglomerate of mediocrity on the wings, but that group just got smaller. :)

If this game was to be played in the Joel, I'd be very concerned. With Miller-McIntyre back in form and Thomas and Crawford playing well, I could easily see the home crowd swaying them into a battle. Hopefully the road atmosphere will do them in. They are one of the absolute worst road teams in the ACC over the last several years. Let's hop that trend continues.

Pghdukie
02-29-2016, 12:42 PM
Had Wake been able to make some FT's, they would have beaten Pitt on the road. Pitt prevailed in 2 OT's. Wake had numerous chances to win, but bad coaching,bad playing, and horrendous shooting cost them.

CDu
02-29-2016, 12:44 PM
Had Wake been able to make some FT's, they would have beaten Pitt on the road. Pitt prevailed in 2 OT's. Wake had numerous chances to win, but bad coaching,bad playing, and horrendous shooting cost them.

I wouldn't put much stock in that Pitt/Wake game. Pitt tried VERY hard to lose that game, but Wake was just slightly better at losing it. The Pitt team that faced Wake looked very little like the Pitt team that we faced.

sagegrouse
02-29-2016, 12:56 PM
Re minutes for tired players -- I just hope we win.

COYS
02-29-2016, 01:00 PM
The bottom line is that Wake is not a good team. They are #135 in KenPom. The only ACC team worse than that is Boston College (#260 . . . ouch!) To put that in perspective, Clemson is the lowest rated team that Duke has lost to this season at #49. I don't say this because I'm overconfident. I love the fight in our team, but I am slightly concerned because of the quick turnaround (playing at home will help, immensely) and because Wake has clearly performed far below their talent level all year. If the stars align, they probably have a higher ceiling than most similarly rated teams. Nevertheless, this is a team that Duke should be able to handle, even if they give us their best shot. Given our lack of depth and the gauntlet that the team ran through Louisville, Virginia, UNC, and Louisville again, I was very impressed with how easily we handled a potentially dangerous FSU team and wasn't too concerned with a letdown game on the road against a quality Pitt team playing for their tournament lives. I hope that this game will look more like the game against FSU. Ideally we'll get a workman-like comfortable win so that everyone can be rested both psychologically and physically for the rematch with the Cheats.

devildeac
02-29-2016, 01:08 PM
Talk about depth:

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/wake-m-baskbl-mtt.html

There are 19 guys in unis and 18 listed on the roster and I swear I saw 19 listed in their last "live" box score checking espn last week but I didn't look at last night's stats.

Manning could run a gold team at us, then the black team, then the white team and even a full multi-hued team (assuming of course he could sneak Childress out there for a few plays :o ).

(Kidding, of course. Mostly.)

;)

Pghdukie
02-29-2016, 03:16 PM
I'm not the Coach, but using MP3 and Chase together may be something to look into

sagegrouse
02-29-2016, 03:21 PM
I'm not the Coach, but using MP3 and Chase together may be something to look into

I feel deprived of bigness. Perhaps we could have Marshall, Chase AND Amile on the court at the same time?

moonpie23
02-29-2016, 03:23 PM
i'm just looking for the guys to come out with fire in their eyes.......hungry and pissed from that pitt game...


Cameron needs to be bringing it.....

Bob Green
02-29-2016, 04:44 PM
i'm just looking for the guys to come out with fire in their eyes....hungry and pissed from that pitt game...


Cameron needs to be bringing it....

I agree! My dime store analysis of the Pitt game says we did not play with sufficient energy. The team needs to be energized against Wake Forest.

Jeffrey
02-29-2016, 05:03 PM
Although I don't think Luke generally lacks confidence, I have thought all season that he's more effective with the ball in his hands a bit more. But I can hardly complain that we're weak when Brandon and Ingram dominate the ball, as they've been excellent.


I'm not sure who I like more, Brandon or Ingram?

Furniture
02-29-2016, 05:36 PM
I'm not sure who I like more, Brandon or Ingram?

I think Brandon is excellent from the 3 point line and Ingram is really good under the basket.
Great to have in anyone's team but just different.

Fish80
02-29-2016, 05:38 PM
I'm not sure who I like more, Brandon or Ingram?

We should play them both simultaneously.

FerryFor50
02-29-2016, 05:43 PM
We should play them both simultaneously.

Combined weight of 1 Marshall Plumlee

Olympic Fan
02-29-2016, 06:03 PM
I'll be interested in the Cameron Crazies this week.

Oh, I know they'll bring it for the UNC game, but I think this team needs a jolt of energy for the Wake game too. Last week, after a lackluster victory over Florida State, Coach K talked about how his team was emotionally exhausted -- not physically tired, but drained emotionally after a string of tough games.

I don't think anybody would disagree that the team displayed that mental exhaustion at Pitt.

The Crazies have a great reputation, but this is the week they have to live up to all the accolades. This team NEEDS energy and it's something the crowd can give them. A standard late-arriving, do-the-same-familiar-routines, etc., just won't get it done. Oh, Duke is probably good enough to beat Wake even when flat, but they need to use both of the last two home games to build some momentum for postseason -- to mentally refresh the team that looked so flat at Pitt.

Coach K has always treated the Crazies as part of the team. I think Tuesday night is when they earn that ... or don't.

Fish80
02-29-2016, 06:52 PM
You know what would get the crazies excited?

AMILE!!!

gumbomoop
02-29-2016, 06:53 PM
I'm not sure who I like more, Brandon or Ingram?

It's possible I misthunk there.

But I do agree with your and these other friendly amendments.


I think Brandon is excellent from the 3 point line and Ingram is really good under the basket. Great to have in anyone's team but just different.


We should play them both simultaneously.


Combined weight of 1 Marshall Plumlee

In fact, this should give us enough depth against Wake and going forward.

Devilwin
02-29-2016, 07:10 PM
Won't see him, I'm afraid. Right now I am straddling the fence on whether I want him to return this year, or redshirt. He'd be good to have either way. But I am still thinking we'd have seen him in some capacity if he was returning this season.

elvis14
02-29-2016, 11:44 PM
One of my concerns is the health and mobility of Matt Jones. He didn't look super mobile against Pitt. At the same time that game was such a dumpster fire that it was hard to really get a feel for how he looks. Meaning my impression that he didn't seem mobile could be wrong but we need him as healthy as possible for the tournaments (and the UNCheat). I hope he looks better against WF and doesn't get any more injured.

BandAlum83
03-01-2016, 01:10 PM
Does anyone have any idea how I can see this game in the Atlanta area? The local ACC Network affiliate doesn't seem to be showing it. I have XFinity as my cable provider, and it doesn't list it anywhere.

Is a sports bar the only place I might be able to see it? Is there any way to stream it online?

Hard to believe that there is actually a Duke game on that I won't be able to watch in Atlanta

wilson
03-01-2016, 01:17 PM
Does anyone have any idea how I can see this game in the Atlanta area? The local ACC Network affiliate doesn't seem to be showing it. I have XFinity as my cable provider, and it doesn't list it anywhere.

Is a sports bar the only place I might be able to see it? Is there any way to stream it online?

Hard to believe that there is actually a Duke game on that I won't be able to watch in AtlantaAccording to the game page on the ACC website (http://www.theacc.com/game-center/5617f5e8e4b0ef626f2c118f/), there should be a live stream available.
It is also listed as an ESPN3 event, with online ESPN stream available, but for some reason, the blackout map is not available at the moment.

Bomar
03-01-2016, 01:32 PM
Does anyone have any idea how I can see this game in the Atlanta area? The local ACC Network affiliate doesn't seem to be showing it. I have XFinity as my cable provider, and it doesn't list it anywhere.

Is a sports bar the only place I might be able to see it? Is there any way to stream it online?

Hard to believe that there is actually a Duke game on that I won't be able to watch in Atlanta

I'm in the Atlanta area as well, with ATT UVerse. I think CW69 is the affiliate, but for some reason they are showing "The World Dog Awards" tonight at 8:00. I don't get it. Guess it's time to fire up the (terrible) ESPN app on my Xbox!

daveduke76
03-01-2016, 01:41 PM
I'm not sure who I like more, Brandon or Ingram?

I think I'd go for Bingdon!

brevity
03-01-2016, 01:50 PM
Does anyone have any idea how I can see this game in the Atlanta area? The local ACC Network affiliate doesn't seem to be showing it. I have XFinity as my cable provider, and it doesn't list it anywhere.

Is a sports bar the only place I might be able to see it? Is there any way to stream it online?

Hard to believe that there is actually a Duke game on that I won't be able to watch in Atlanta


According to the game page on the ACC website (http://www.theacc.com/game-center/5617f5e8e4b0ef626f2c118f/), there should be a live stream available.
It is also listed as an ESPN3 event, with online ESPN stream available, but for some reason, the blackout map is not available at the moment.


I'm in the Atlanta area as well, with ATT UVerse. I think CW69 is the affiliate, but for some reason they are showing "The World Dog Awards" tonight at 8:00. I don't get it. Guess it's time to fire up the (terrible) ESPN app on my Xbox!

There's a previous thread on this: Your Viewing Options for Wake Forest Game (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37517). The list of ACC Network affiliates (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-basketball-on-acc-network-wake-forest-at-duke-03-01-2016) for tonight's game does not include Atlanta, so your options are to find it on ESPN College Extra or watch it online, either through ESPN or ACC.

Not in Atlanta, but my U-Verse service has the game on one of the standard definition channels set aside for ESPN College Extra (in the 600s).

Saratoga2
03-01-2016, 03:31 PM
The bottom line is that Wake is not a good team. They are #135 in KenPom. The only ACC team worse than that is Boston College (#260 . . . ouch!) To put that in perspective, Clemson is the lowest rated team that Duke has lost to this season at #49. I don't say this because I'm overconfident. I love the fight in our team, but I am slightly concerned because of the quick turnaround (playing at home will help, immensely) and because Wake has clearly performed far below their talent level all year. If the stars align, they probably have a higher ceiling than most similarly rated teams. Nevertheless, this is a team that Duke should be able to handle, even if they give us their best shot. Given our lack of depth and the gauntlet that the team ran through Louisville, Virginia, UNC, and Louisville again, I was very impressed with how easily we handled a potentially dangerous FSU team and wasn't too concerned with a letdown game on the road against a quality Pitt team playing for their tournament lives. I hope that this game will look more like the game against FSU. Ideally we'll get a workman-like comfortable win so that everyone can be rested both psychologically and physically for the rematch with the Cheats.

What will the Duke effort be tonight and who should/will start? Why were we so far off our game against Pitt?

Was it emotional exhaustion? What the heck is that anyway?

Was it physical exhaustion or lingering injuries? We certainly have reasons for both of those excuses.

Was the pro style reliance on Brandon and Grayson not effective against a competent defensive, deep and aggressive team like Pitt? Maybe.

What happened to our rebounding against Pitt? Was Pitt that good or was Marshall unable to compete with numerous quick defender/leapers? We were off for sure.

Was our more effective lineup against Pitt using Luke handling the ball more? Seemed that way.

The real question is whether with a single off day whether we can figure out why we stumbled against Pitt and make enough adjustments to play more like we did when we had a run of excellent games against ranked opponents. It will be interesting to see if the kids recover some of their mojo and whether the coaches have some new wrinkles to improve the rebounding and offensive movement.

Kedsy
03-01-2016, 03:42 PM
The real question is whether with a single off day whether we can figure out why we stumbled against Pitt and make enough adjustments to play more like we did when we had a run of excellent games against ranked opponents. It will be interesting to see if the kids recover some of their mojo and whether the coaches have some new wrinkles to improve the rebounding and offensive movement.

What's to figure out? Why do we need new wrinkles after one bad game?

I can see the coaching staff working on how to effectively re-charge the team's batteries, but to switch our primary ballhandler or our starting lineup, or to change our offensive schemes or our rebounding strategy? Sounds like an overreaction to me.

Wander
03-01-2016, 04:03 PM
I can see the coaching staff working on how to effectively re-charge the team's batteries, but to switch our primary ballhandler or our starting lineup, or to change our offensive schemes or our rebounding strategy? Sounds like an overreaction to me.

Well, we've always sucked at (defensive) rebounding, so I don't think changing our rebounding strategy would necessarily be an overreaction to one game. Though I don't really know what there is to change aside from "get Amile back."

azzefkram
03-01-2016, 04:06 PM
What happened to our rebounding against Pitt? Was Pitt that good or was Marshall unable to compete with numerous quick defender/leapers? We were off for sure.

I'm not positive but I think Pitt leads the league in rebounding differential so they are that good. Looking at the numbers, it really shouldn't be surprising that we were pantsed on the boards. Brandon is our second best offensive rebounder at 5.5%. Pitt has six players with a rate higher than that. On the defensive side of the ball, they have five players north of 15%. We have 2. Marshall had a pretty bad game but a good or great game from Marshall would have only made the numbers less ugly, not good.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-01-2016, 07:30 PM
Amile is in street clothes again tonight. :( LGD GTHc!

-jk
03-01-2016, 07:32 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

riverside6
03-01-2016, 07:44 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Wake Forest, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/wake-forest-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-03012016

Tripping William
03-01-2016, 08:02 PM
"Wrong," per Merriam Webster: Wes Durham calling a game in Cameron.

Steven43
03-01-2016, 08:29 PM
Notice how Grayson is going left tonight? He's auditioning for the NBA.

rsvman
03-01-2016, 08:37 PM
Brandon still unable to create of the drive. I really wish we could get the Brandon back that we had four or five games ago, or at least that he will come back during the unc game and the tournaments.

downeastdad
03-01-2016, 08:42 PM
Lieutenant Plumlee is going to have a big game tonight.
ded

dukelifer
03-01-2016, 08:53 PM
Letting Wake hang around

SCMatt33
03-01-2016, 09:00 PM
At some point, Grayson and Brandon need to recognize that they can't just dribble into two or three defenders wildly. It's not November. You're not going to get that foul called often enough. Need to be cognizant of open teammates and stay in control enough that you can actually get a pass off.

fuse
03-01-2016, 09:04 PM
Living dangerously....

Eye test says we should be up 15+ and yet Wake is only one point behind at half.

Confident in a strong Duke second half.

Let's Go Duke!

heyman25
03-01-2016, 09:04 PM
Really bad shooting . At work can't really watch or listen.No home cooking in the first half.I guess no Jefferson either.

heyman25
03-01-2016, 09:16 PM
Tie game with WF @ 50% Duke @30% fg shooting

rsvman
03-01-2016, 09:18 PM
Wake would be blowing us out if they didn't throw the ball away on half their possessions

pfrduke
03-01-2016, 09:19 PM
Wake would be blowing us out if they didn't throw the ball away on half their possessions

Well, the converse to that is that we would be blowing them out if we weren't missing easy shots. I think we're playing better overall but really not shooting well.

downeastdad
03-01-2016, 09:27 PM
Really bad shooting . At work can't really watch or listen.No home cooking in the first half.I guess no Jefferson either.

At some point, we've got to realize that Amile is not the 7th Cavalry coming over the hill, and if he is, he's NOT going to be at anywhere near at 100%. We've got to go with what we've got right now, which is 6 guys with a lot of guts and not a lot of stamina or ankles. Given that, I'm hoping for a 4 seed and two wins in the NCAA.
Go Duke.
ded

pfrduke
03-01-2016, 09:34 PM
Maybe we're just getting the misses out of our system before Saturday's game (he says hopefully and knocking on wood).

rsvman
03-01-2016, 09:39 PM
I hope you're right.

Wake starting to cool of a bit, too, which is good.

downeastdad
03-01-2016, 09:45 PM
K is like a junkyard dog, trying to get the crowd going. Go Duke.
ded

downeastdad
03-01-2016, 09:56 PM
Lieutenant Plumlee is going to have a big game tonight.
ded

What I said!!! MOM.
ded

downeastdad
03-01-2016, 10:00 PM
What I said!!! MOM.
ded

Oops! Marshall fouls out.
ded

jipops
03-01-2016, 10:10 PM
Any chance the ACC reviews that hip check? Naaah