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JasonEvans
02-26-2016, 10:45 AM
Ok everyone, time to play ACC Commish for a few moments. What would you do about the Grayson Allen trip at the end of the FSU game?

1. One-game suspension for Grayson - This is not the first time he has been cited for tripping and this was a clearly intentional act. It does not matter if he gets pushed, grabbed, and bumped by other players, it is his responsibility to remain under control and not endanger the safety of others.
2. Public reprimand, but no suspension - The ACC would issue a statement saying Grayson did something wrong. The league would add that both Duke and ACC officials have spoken to Grayson about it and warned him to clean up his act, but he will not be forced to miss any game time... this time.
3. Admonish the Refs - The ACC issues a statement saying that the referees should have dealt with this in-game and urging officials to pay closer attention to intentional contact going forward.
4. Nothing - The ACC either says nothing or issues a statement saying it has looked at the tapes and spoke to the teams/players but that no further action will be taken at this time. A private reprimand would be included in the "nothing" category.

-Jason "so, what do we all think... and would we think the same thing if it had been Grayson who was tripped (but not hurt) by a rival ACC player?" Evans

FerryFor50
02-26-2016, 10:47 AM
Ok everyone, time to play ACC Commish for a few moments. What would you do about the Grayson Allen trip at the end of the FSU game?

1. One-game suspension for Grayson - this is not the first time he has been cited for tripping and this was a clearly intentional act. It does not matter if he gets pushed, grabbed, and bumped by other players, it is his responsibility to remain under control and not endanger the safety of others.
2. Public reprimand, but no suspension - The ACC would issue a statement saying Grayson did something wrong and the league would say that both Duke and ACC officials have spoken to Grayson about it and warned him to clean up his act, but he will not be forced to miss any game time... this time.
3. Admonish the Refs - The ACC issues a statement saying that the referees should have dealt with this in-game and urging officials to pay closer attention to intentional contact going forward.
4. Nothing - The ACC either says nothing or issues a statement saying it has looked at the tapes and spoken to the teams/players but that no further action will be taken at this time.

-Jason "so, what do we all think... and would we think the same thing if it had been Grayson who was tripped (but not hurt) by a rival ACC player?" Evans

I think you left one off: private warning to Grayson/K, as well as warning to XRM/FSU.

That said, I want to know what TrippingWilliam has to say about all of this...

JasonEvans
02-26-2016, 10:49 AM
I think you left one off: private warning to Grayson/K, as well as warning to XRM/FSU.

I think this is largely what the "nothing" category includes. Nothing is done publicly, but some private communication happens behind the scenes. As far as the fan world is concerned, nothing happened.

uh_no
02-26-2016, 11:02 AM
I know K will work with grayson on his outburts (physical or verbal), but I don't see any cause for the ACC to do anything.

DukieInBrasil
02-26-2016, 11:07 AM
I saw that ESPN had a talking heads segment about Grayson and tripping. Funny, they didn't do a segment about what's his name from L'ville throwing elbows to the head and then trying to fight people afterwards.
ESPN gotta drum up some controversy!

Duke95
02-26-2016, 11:09 AM
Lionsgate hires Allen in a remake of Bruce Lee movie: Enter the Grayson

jipops
02-26-2016, 11:11 AM
I vote nothing because social media chatter and outcry should have nothing to do with driving a decision on suspension.

Just for comparison's sake - Jaylen Johnson slams Grayson's head to the ground and gives him a bloody lip. Johnson was given a dead-ball technical foul but no suspension. And there was no public out cry over this and whether or not he should be suspended. I didn't think he should be either. But Grayson should? Why? Because the ref didn't call a tech? That wouldn't make any sense.

As has been mentioned, Justice wasn't suspended for his tripping incident last year. Again, so why should Grayson?

Grayson has been and already will be paying the price for this. He's going to be heavily targeted from here on out. He already doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on foul calls (as evidenced by his 2 ft attempts last night). It's pretty much open season for all opposing players to hammer away at the kid now as we saw from XRM last night.

camion
02-26-2016, 11:21 AM
Before I vote in this poll I'd like another one.

What happened?

1. Grayson tripped unprovoked, totally his fault.
2. Grayson responded to a provocation and both players were at fault.
3. It was the FSU player's fault.
4. It was mostly accidental.

Polls are so easy and tend to paint in black and white.

arnie
02-26-2016, 11:29 AM
I think you left one off: private warning to Grayson/K, as well as warning to XRM/FSU.

That said, I want to know what TrippingWilliam has to say about all of this...

Local non-Duke fans want permanent basketball ban (college and pro) with some jail time. I think that's a bit harsh. More ESPN discussion of Grayson tripping than 20+ years of Heels cheating.

CameronBlue
02-26-2016, 11:31 AM
Grayson has been and already will be paying the price for this. He's going to be heavily targeted from here on out. He already doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on foul calls (as evidenced by his 2 ft attempts last night). It's pretty much open season for all opposing players to hammer away at the kid now as we saw from XMR last night.

Which is exactly why K should suspend him a game or sit him for a half. I don't think you can or should draw comparisons to the Johnson incident about what is equitable and fair, or what is acceptable. Duke's standards should be what Duke wants them to be, what K wants them to be within the milieu--Grayson's standing within the basketball community, with his peers. Grayson is a wonderfully gifted player who has a future in basketball beyond Duke. This is the time for the father figure and mentor persona we like to project upon K to emerge.

The first thought that popped into my head when I saw the video is that K should take action. K should be the one to sit Grayson for a game. That's what I want out of our coach. Honestly I don't care what Swofford thinks. Maybe I'm an easy mark, too willing to accept the supermarket tabloid stench and stain of it all. But until Swofford makes a statement for the record (and I don't think he has), I'll blindly believe he was at least complicit in the UNC scandal and therefore has zero credibility. Until he comments publicly on the matter, he has no standing to pass judgment on others IMO. Of course that's my reality distorted as it is. But Swofford should leave the matter to K. K should suspend Grayson for a game or at least sit him a half, for Grayson's sake moreso than for Duke's.

Skitzle
02-26-2016, 11:32 AM
Before I vote in this poll I'd like another one.

What happened?

1. Grayson tripped unprovoked, totally his fault.
2. Grayson responded to a provocation and both players were at fault.
3. It was the FSU player's fault.
4. It was mostly accidental.

Polls are so easy and tend to paint in black and white.

I'd vote 1.5: Something in between 1 and 2.

Both are at fault. Grayson Allen is More at fault cause he tripped intentionally.

Skitzle
02-26-2016, 11:34 AM
Which is exactly why K should suspend him a game or sit him for a half. I don't think you can or should draw comparisons to the Johnson incident about what is equitable and fair, or what is acceptable. Duke's standards should be what Duke wants them to be, what K wants them to be within the milieu--Grayson's standing within the basketball community, with his peers. Grayson is a wonderfully gifted player who has a future in basketball beyond Duke. This is the time for the father figure and mentor persona we like to project upon K to emerge.

The first thought that popped into my head when I saw the video is that K should take action. K should be the one to sit Grayson for a game. That's what I want out of our coach. Honestly I don't care what Swofford thinks. Maybe I'm an easy mark, too willing to accept the supermarket tabloid stench and stain of it all. But until Swofford makes a statement for the record (and I don't think he has), I'll blindly believe he was at least complicit in the UNC scandal and therefore has zero credibility. Until he comments publicly on the matter, he has no standing to pass judgment on others IMO. Of course that's my reality distorted as it is. But Swofford should leave the matter to K. K should suspend Grayson for a game or at least sit him a half, for Grayson's sake moreso than for Duke's.

I'm in on this. A 10-20 min suspension from K. Not going to happen. But I'm in on it.

Tripping William
02-26-2016, 11:34 AM
I think you left one off: private warning to Grayson/K, as well as warning to XRM/FSU.

That said, I want to know what TrippingWilliam has to say about all of this...

LOL. All I will say at the moment is:

"You must spread some Comments around before commenting on FerryFor50 again."

stedge
02-26-2016, 11:36 AM
I'd vote 1.5: Something in between 1 and 2.

Both are at fault. Grayson Allen is More at fault cause he tripped intentionally.



Nah, it was 1. He was not provoked immediately prior, and that was just a weak move on Grayson's part. He has to be spoken to, and Coach needs to tell him his butt will be planted if he does it again.

He has to behave better than that. That move was just embarrassing and displays weakness.

superdave
02-26-2016, 11:37 AM
I think you left one off: private warning to Grayson/K, as well as warning to XRM/FSU.

That said, I want to know what TrippingWilliam has to say about all of this...

This seems likely to me. You cannot suspend these guys this late in the year for something this minor. If you do, you have to go back and suspend Brice Johnson for saying he intentionally elbowed Allen, etc.

Can of worms. Tell the coaches to handle their biznass.

Billy Dat
02-26-2016, 11:41 AM
Which is exactly why K should suspend him a game or sit him for a half. I don't think you can or should draw comparisons to the Johnson incident about what is equitable and fair, or what is acceptable. Duke's standards should be what Duke wants them to be, what K wants them to be within the milieu--Grayson's standing within the basketball community, with his peers. Grayson is a wonderfully gifted player who has a future in basketball beyond Duke. This is the time for the father figure and mentor persona we like to project upon K to emerge.

The first thought that popped into my head when I saw the video is that K should take action. K should be the one to sit Grayson for a game. That's what I want out of our coach. Honestly I don't care what Swofford thinks. Maybe I'm an easy mark, too willing to accept the supermarket tabloid stench and stain of it all. But until Swofford makes a statement for the record (and I don't think he has), I'll blindly believe he was at least complicit in the UNC scandal and therefore has zero credibility. Until he comments publicly on the matter, he has no standing to pass judgment on others IMO. Of course that's my reality distorted as it is. But Swofford should leave the matter to K. K should suspend Grayson for a game or at least sit him a half, for Grayson's sake moreso than for Duke's.

I could be very wrong about this, but K strikes me as the kind of Dad who would march his black-eyed son right up to the neighborhood bully who punched him and make him start throwing haymakers. That's the kind of mentor I think he is, AND the kind I want him to be, the kind who draws that line that says, "We don't take nothing from nobody!" He pulls a knife, you pull a gun, he puts one of yours in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue, THAT'S THE CHICAGO WAY. (source - 'The Untouchables)

I think K's gonna take action, and that action is going to be defending Grayson to anyone that questions his behavior. As others have said, there was a ref right on top of the play who saw what happened and not only kept his whistle in his mouth, but also went over to the FSU player to have a word. Did the FSU player have a reaction ala Kentucky's Aminu Timberlake after he got stomped by Laettner, no, because he knew his part in it.

Suspend Grayson? No way dude, no way!

CameronBlue
02-26-2016, 11:48 AM
I could be very wrong about this, but K strikes me as the kind of Dad who would march his black-eyed son right up to the neighborhood bully who punched him and make him start throwing haymakers. That's the kind of mentor I think he is, AND the kind I want him to be, the kind who draws that line that says, "We don't take nothing from nobody!" He pulls a knife, you pull a gun, he puts one of yours in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue, THAT'S THE CHICAGO WAY. (source - 'The Untouchables)

I think K's gonna take action, and that action is going to be defending Grayson to anyone that questions his behavior. As others have said, there was a ref right on top of the play who saw what happened and not only kept his whistle in his mouth, but also went over to the FSU player to have a word. Did the FSU player have a reaction ala Kentucky's Aminu Timberlake after he got stomped by Laettner, no, because he knew his part in it.

Suspend Grayson? No way dude, no way!

You may be right but I wonder if that sort of perspective filters through when K speaks at the Fuqua School ;>). I think K may be a bit more nuanced in his wizened maturity.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-26-2016, 11:54 AM
Before I vote in this poll I'd like another one.

What happened?

1. Grayson tripped unprovoked, totally his fault.
2. Grayson responded to a provocation and both players were at fault.
3. It was the FSU player's fault.
4. It was mostly accidental.

Polls are so easy and tend to paint in black and white.

I am not sure why people are pointing to events that happened earlier as provocation that somehow ameliorates the responsibility of Grayson. Yes, it means that there's two players who have done wrong, but it doesn't make an intentional act (if so) by Grayson any "less" wrong.

If MP3 gets fouled hard all game long with some dubious intent, and at the end of the game he hauls off and punches someone, he's still liable for those actions.

CrazyNotCrazie
02-26-2016, 11:55 AM
I have mixed feelings about this. Particularly coming off K's comments after the Louisville game about how we are getting beat up out there, I think he wants to make a point about the fact that teams can't keep doing this to Duke and the refs need to step up. However, two wrongs don't make a right, and Grayson was not correct to retaliate, particularly since this is the second time he was caught tripping someone.

I think some punishment is necessary. Unfortunately, the best solution would have been for the refs to T him up or kick him out of the game, since that way they would be punishing him but the impact on Duke would have been nil. Particularly given our already short bench, I think that a suspension of any sort would be too extreme for the crime. I have been trying to think of another option but have been unsuccessful thus far.

Selover
02-26-2016, 11:56 AM
I hope K doesn't suspend him for the Pitt game for these two reasons:

1. I don't think he deserves being suspended.
2. I won't get any work done on Thursday because I'll be too busy trolling people complaining that K only suspended him because the next game was Pitt.


Also, I like how some article on this (ESPN's C.L. Brown included) are chirping about a suspension and citing Shaq Goodwin tripping a playing while sitting on the bench as precedent. Before you know it Grayson will be known as Woody Hayes.

CDu
02-26-2016, 11:57 AM
I think you left one off: private warning to Grayson/K, as well as warning to XRM/FSU.

That said, I want to know what TrippingWilliam has to say about all of this...

I agree: private reprimand to Duke and Allen is the way to go here. There's no precedent to suspend, and no need to turn this nuclear.

At the most, maybe an upgrade to a retroactive flagrant 1 foul?

Lar77
02-26-2016, 12:07 PM
I voted nothing, but include a private discussion within that.

Didn't see it real time since the Matt was having a discussion with an FSU guy at the same time. The first time I saw the ESPN clip, it looked bad. The next time, on a better screen, I saw XRM push (or something - grab?) Grayson in the back right before the leg. Ref was 15 feet away and made a no call and spoke to XRM. XRM wasn't upset. Grayson said something to XRM. Play on.

Coach K made a comment something like 'Grayson took 20 shots and only had two free throw attempts. That's amazing.'

Not excusing Grayson's behavior. Also admit that I might have done the same.

I agree with other posters that Grayson has to be careful with the message it conveys.

Billy Dat
02-26-2016, 12:09 PM
You may be right but I wonder if that sort of perspective filters through when K speaks at the Fuqua School ;>). I think K may be a bit more nuanced in his wizened maturity.

I am with you on that, K is a master communicator who knows his audience. I have no doubt he'll have a talk with Grayson about being smarter, thinking about how stupid it would be if he got suspended, all of the things people are mentioning. I think K thinks Grayson was stupid for the potential consequences, but I bet he has no problem with Grayson sticking up for himself so he would never suspend him because that would, in effect, be inviting more punk behavior from those punking Grayson now. This is a man who sat in a press conference after GHendo nearly removed Psycho Ts nose and said, "it was a blowout, Psycho T shouldn't have been playing".

He definitely is more nuanced outside of the octagon, and that is what makes him the far superior of his mentor, RM Knight. He can actually act like a human being once the game has been over for a few hours.

Jarhead
02-26-2016, 12:10 PM
What is going on here? I watched that game on tv, but I didn't see anything like a trip. My suggestion to the moderators is that any such allegations must be accompanied by evidence of an infraction. Does someone have a link to such evidence in the FSU game? If so, I hope that it is better evidence than the earlier trip a while back which was pretty weak. If there is a problem, let's do a better review of the rough and tumble games here in the ACC. Yeah, in other conferences, too. Ooops, I just saw the trip in another thread. Sorry, but let K handle it. It was a playground trick.

vick
02-26-2016, 12:12 PM
While I agree with the majority that an ACC-mandated suspension would be out of line with precedent, I have to say, the attitude of some of our fans that "well he gets hit a lot so the frustration is understandable" puts me a bit on edge. I see no evidence that he is fouled more than, say, Cat Barber. And frankly, lots of centers and power forwards take tons more contact, but it's OK because they're big or something (cue Craig Esherick-style rant).

CDu
02-26-2016, 12:15 PM
What is going on here? I watched that game on tv, but I didn't see anything like a trip. My suggestion to the moderators is that any such allegations must be accompanied by evidence of an infraction. Does someone have a link to such evidence in the FSU game? If so, I hope that it is better evidence than the earlier trip a while back which was pretty weak. If there is a problem, let's do a better review of the rough and tumble games here in the ACC. Yeah, in other conferences, too.

Look in the post-game thread. It's all over that thread now.

CDu
02-26-2016, 12:19 PM
While I agree with the majority that an ACC-mandated suspension would be out of line with precedent, I have to say, the attitude of some of our fans that "well he gets hit a lot so the frustration is understandable" puts me a bit on edge. I see no evidence that he is fouled more than, say, Cat Barber. And frankly, lots of centers and power forwards take tons more contact, but it's OK because they're big or something (cue Craig Esherick-style rant).

I totally agree with this. Allen isn't fouled any more than any other ball-dominant, primary offensive player in major college basketball. That's a terrible argument in my opinion. I think it's an easy mistake to make, though, because most Duke fans (a) watch mostly Duke games and (b) will tend to look more at fouls committed on our players than on the other team.

And even if he was getting fouled more than most, that doesn't make tripping an opponent okay. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Though, again, I voted for "nothing", and suggested that a private reprimand be the way to go.

Bob Green
02-26-2016, 12:30 PM
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Spot on! The tripping has to stop.

SCMatt33
02-26-2016, 12:33 PM
So I don't see the justification for only private reprimand. I would think at the very least, the conference should acknowledge that a flagrant 1 would have been called. If that doesn't rise to "public reprimand" then I guess there's merely a semantic disagreement. If there is a suspension however, I won't be too upset about it. The play by itself is a flagrant 1, but you can't retroactively call that, and even if you could, it would carry no penalty, as this isn't the NBA where they add up over time to a suspension. Given that this is a repeat offense, I can see the justification. What I think should happen though is that any suspension (if there is one) should come through the school with the ACC merely acknowledging support. The reasoning is that it would be dangerous for the ACC to essentially set the precedent that two flagrant ones in a month is suspension worthy. Lines can get fuzzy with different kinds of flagrant 1's. How much were they "basketball plays" if that matters. It's best to let the school give out the penalty.

In the end, it's just so difficult because the proper course of action, flagrant 1, is no longer an option. I voted for public reprimand, but in the end, either that or suspension is fine by me. I'm not for the "suspend for a half" thing in general. It just feels like a pretty hollow punishment to say "we'll sit you" but let you come back well rested in the second half." That goes for all sports, though

Olympic Fan
02-26-2016, 12:40 PM
I hope K doesn't suspend him for the Pitt game for these two reasons:

1. I don't think he deserves being suspended.
2. I won't get any work done on Thursday because I'll be too busy trolling people complaining that K only suspended him because the next game was Pitt.


I don't understand what you are saying?

I know some football coaches suspend players before FCS games or the like -- games they know they can win anyway.

But Pitt is a tough ACC team on the road. It's going to be a VERY tough game. According to Pomeroy, we're bigger favorites to beat UNC next Saturday than Pitt this Saturday.

We are very unlikely to beat Pitt without Grayson ... and we need to beat Pitt to keep our hopes of winning a share of the regular season title (and earning a double bye) alive.

CarmenWallaceWade
02-26-2016, 12:45 PM
Justise did this twice last year and nothing happened. Justise's were worse. He straight up grabbed people's legs.

^^^

This. Was just thinking the same. Winslow also kicked Brice Johnson in the groin. Was T'd up, but no further reprimands (suspension, sitting out). Look, I'm not a fan of the trip, but deal with it in the game or don't. Allen has had things happen to them that were not seen / called. I don't believe those were dealt with after the fact. No reason to set precedent here. K should talk to him, tell him to expect the targeting, and teach him how to deal with it the best way he knows how: torching defenses. Can't afford to lose him in a game from him losing his cool.

CameronBlue
02-26-2016, 12:47 PM
I am with you on that, K is a master communicator who knows his audience. I have no doubt he'll have a talk with Grayson about being smarter, thinking about how stupid it would be if he got suspended, all of the things people are mentioning. I think K thinks Grayson was stupid for the potential consequences, but I bet he has no problem with Grayson sticking up for himself so he would never suspend him because that would, in effect, be inviting more punk behavior from those punking Grayson now. This is a man who sat in a press conference after GHendo nearly removed Psycho Ts nose and said, "it was a blowout, Psycho T shouldn't have been playing".

He definitely is more nuanced outside of the octagon, and that is what makes him the far superior of his mentor, RM Knight. He can actually act like a human being once the game has been over for a few hours.

I don't really want to continue to berate Grayson for his transgression nor debate you solely because I think your perspective is wrong--I agree with most of it-- but remember we don't really Grayson's motivation. As others have noted in this thread, the act stands out as being more "punkish" than other game action (assuming you distinguish hard fouls from punk behavior), and casts Grayson in the role of instigator, not a guy sticking up for himself. I guess it comes down to whether in one's opinion the trip stands apart as something more egregious.

Irrespective of K's public response, GHendo was suspended for a game by the league relieving K of that responsibility. GHendo also issued a public apology and it's not unreasonable to assume that K was on board with the punishment. In any event K has always been known for dealing with things in house and being very guarded about what is released publicly. I similarly have no doubt that K and Grayson will have a sit down over the incident.

CDu
02-26-2016, 12:48 PM
So I don't see the justification for only private reprimand. I would think at the very least, the conference should acknowledge that a flagrant 1 would have been called. If that doesn't rise to "public reprimand" then I guess there's merely a semantic disagreement. If there is a suspension however, I won't be too upset about it. The play by itself is a flagrant 1, but you can't retroactively call that, and even if you could, it would carry no penalty, as this isn't the NBA where they add up over time to a suspension. Given that this is a repeat offense, I can see the justification. What I think should happen though is that any suspension (if there is one) should come through the school with the ACC merely acknowledging support. The reasoning is that it would be dangerous for the ACC to essentially set the precedent that two flagrant ones in a month is suspension worthy. Lines can get fuzzy with different kinds of flagrant 1's. How much were they "basketball plays" if that matters. It's best to let the school give out the penalty.

In the end, it's just so difficult because the proper course of action, flagrant 1, is no longer an option. I voted for public reprimand, but in the end, either that or suspension is fine by me. I'm not for the "suspend for a half" thing in general. It just feels like a pretty hollow punishment to say "we'll sit you" but let you come back well rested in the second half." That goes for all sports, though

If you want to call a "retroactive flagrant 1" a public reprimand, I'm fine with that. And yes, that has no effective teeth as a punishment. But, honestly, I don't think there is anything remotely reasonable with regard to punishment that would fit the crime. Suspending for a game is WAY too excessive for what was simply a flagrant 1 foul. To suspend simply because the refs missed a call is WAY overboard in my view. I think you either talk to the player and coach privately or you publicly state would should have been called (flagrant 1), and leave it at that.

Jeffrey
02-26-2016, 01:03 PM
To suspend simply because the refs missed a call is WAY overboard in my view.

I agree. IMO, to discuss this with the refs, who reviewed the video many times before finalizing their call, seems appropriate. IMO, it was rather obvious, and I'm not sure how they missed it or why they minimized it.

CDu
02-26-2016, 01:06 PM
I agree. IMO, to discuss this with the refs, who reviewed the video many times before finalizing their call, seems appropriate. IMO, it was rather obvious, and I'm not sure how they missed it or why they minimized it.

Did they really review it? I don't remember that at all.

jipops
02-26-2016, 01:06 PM
I totally agree with this. Allen isn't fouled any more than any other ball-dominant, primary offensive player in major college basketball. That's a terrible argument in my opinion. I think it's an easy mistake to make, though, because most Duke fans (a) watch mostly Duke games and (b) will tend to look more at fouls committed on our players than on the other team.

And even if he was getting fouled more than most, that doesn't make tripping an opponent okay. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Though, again, I voted for "nothing", and suggested that a private reprimand be the way to go.


I don't think anyone can logically argue that this wasn't a dumb, boneheaded, intentional move by Grayson.
But it may be worth pointing out - as of February 21, Cat Barber had 50 more ft attempts for the season than Allen. With Grayson only getting 2 attempts last night that gap may now be larger. With that I think an assertion can logically be drawn that Grayson's frustration spilled over last night.

rsvman
02-26-2016, 01:16 PM
I think he should get ISS and have to go to the principal's office. And we should call his parents, too.

Seriously, the move was just so middle school. What the heck was Grayson thinking?

It wouldn't surprise me if Swofford is essentially forced, by public pressure, into taking action of some sort. Grayson absolutely has to be smarter going forward. The refs are going to be watching him like a hawk, if they weren't already. The stupidest part is that what he is doing can only make matters worse than they already are. Make him more likely to foul out, more likely to have a flagrant called, even for incidental contact, etc. Nothing can possibly improve secondary to his immature behaviour, it can only get worse. Cameron indoor is not an elementary school playground. The "teachers" are ALWAYS watching.

Lar77
02-26-2016, 01:18 PM
If you want to call a "retroactive flagrant 1" a public reprimand, I'm fine with that. And yes, that has no effective teeth as a punishment. But, honestly, I don't think there is anything remotely reasonable with regard to punishment that would fit the crime. Suspending for a game is WAY too excessive for what was simply a flagrant 1 foul. To suspend simply because the refs missed a call is WAY overboard in my view. I think you either talk to the player and coach privately or you publicly state would should have been called (flagrant 1), and leave it at that.

The ref didn't miss the call. He was 15 feet away, looking at them. He chose not to make the call. Didn't affect the game. There was no harm.

ESPN gets the benefit to post it and draw people (including me) to their site.

I agree with your earlier post. Grayson's style is to draw contact and get to the foul line. He can't complain about contact (nor does he). He can ask about a no call, but he doesn't have the same freedom as a coach to do so.

SCMatt33
02-26-2016, 01:24 PM
If you want to call a "retroactive flagrant 1" a public reprimand, I'm fine with that. And yes, that has no effective teeth as a punishment. But, honestly, I don't think there is anything remotely reasonable with regard to punishment that would fit the crime. Suspending for a game is WAY too excessive for what was simply a flagrant 1 foul. To suspend simply because the refs missed a call is WAY overboard in my view. I think you either talk to the player and coach privately or you publicly state would should have been called (flagrant 1), and leave it at that.

This is why I don't think the ACC should do it, as there isn't a good punishment to fit the crime available. That being said, I think the school can hold itself to a higher standard. Additionally, I think there if the ACC does feel the need to do it, I can be justified ( even if I don't think it should go down this way) due to the fact that a) this was a repeat violation and not "simply a flagrant 1 foul" and b) the violations in question were complete non-basketball plays. This was a guy having a loose elbow while ripping the ball through, or a guy fouling hard at the rim.

53n206
02-26-2016, 01:30 PM
As to an after the game response by the ACC with regard to Allen's tripping I would like to compare this with any league's response to video reviews, after a game, where refereeing errors were responsible for a team's winning or losing when clearly an erroneous call was made. Do the leagues in question change the outcome of the game as it was played on the floor? Of course not. Penalties for rules violations should be made during the game.
Next up, Pitt.

Selover
02-26-2016, 01:31 PM
I don't understand what you are saying?

I know some football coaches suspend players before FCS games or the like -- games they know they can win anyway.

But Pitt is a tough ACC team on the road. It's going to be a VERY tough game. According to Pomeroy, we're bigger favorites to beat UNC next Saturday than Pitt this Saturday.

We are very unlikely to beat Pitt without Grayson ... and we need to beat Pitt to keep our hopes of winning a share of the regular season title (and earning a double bye) alive.

I completely agree with you on this - I just did a poor job of making my point :o. I was trying to say that no matter what the outcome is in this situation, there will still be plenty of people complaining that the punishment was not enough and Grayson got off easy because he plays for Duke.

Sorry for any confusion!

Lar77
02-26-2016, 01:47 PM
I just noticed that "Running Extra Laps" and "Not Choosing the Players' Meal" were not listed.

dukebluesincebirth
02-26-2016, 01:48 PM
I voted nothing because nothing out of the norm happened. This is a complete overreaction by the media, especially TMZ, oops, I mean ESPN. Please Duke fans, do not get caught up in this hype. Grayson plays with an edge because that's how he's survived in competitive, upper level basketball as a white, baby faced kid from Jacksonville, Florida. Jeff Capel referenced this in a recent interview (sorry, don't have the link)...he basically said when they went to see grayson play in HS, they could tell the opposing players thought grayson was "soft" and gave him a body check of some sorts. Next play down the court, Grayson came right back at the dude in the same manner. Capel and K took notice of that. They were impressed. They liked it. So do I. Don't expect any apologies from K or Grayson on this matter. There are none necessary. In fact, if grayson continues to get chopped, poked, slammed, elbowed, etc. by opposing players, expect more of the same. Grayson wears the DUKE on his chest with the ferocity of a warrior, and I appreciate every bit of it.

Jeffrey
02-26-2016, 01:49 PM
Did they really review it? I don't remember that at all.

Sorry, I was commingling the events and the ref responses. IIRC, the refs reviewed the previous trip (Louisville) video multiple times before finalizing that call. The refs seemed to somewhat minimize the first intentional trip (Louisville) and miss the second (FSU). I'm not sure how you could now claim it's worthy of a 1 game suspension. If people think the on-court responses were not sufficient, then I'd think you'd want to discuss it with the refs. I'd certainly want to know why the refs did not blow a whistle on the FSU trip.

tbyers11
02-26-2016, 01:54 PM
I just noticed that "Running Extra Laps" and "Not Choosing the Players' Meal" were not listed.

This needed to be an option. For shame, for forgetting this one Jason.

Wander
02-26-2016, 02:00 PM
Guys, the "we had a Duke player do worse stuff last year and he wasn't suspended" line is one of the stranger arguments I've seen Duke fans adopt over anything. I think it's better to focus on the refs messing up the call.

rsvman
02-26-2016, 02:20 PM
The ref didn't miss the call. He was 15 feet away, looking at them.....
..

If you review the video, you can see that the ref is clearly NOT looking at them. It looks to me like his eyes were directed to the other side of the court, where the FSU players were harassing Jones for no apparent reason. His eyes move toward Grayson and Rathan-Mayes about the time Rathan-Mayes goes sprawling onto the floor.

I think the reason he didn't make a call is because he didn't see what happened.

uh_no
02-26-2016, 02:22 PM
Guys, the "we had a Duke player do worse stuff last year and he wasn't suspended" line is one of the stranger arguments I've seen Duke fans adopt over anything. I think it's better to focus on the refs messing up the call.

huh? if the argument is "grayson shouldn't be suspended," then pointing out instances where another player has done worse and not been suspended is perfectly sound. The fact that the player played for duke is largely irrelevant.

I don't think everyone people are saying it's okay the players did what they did...just that their actions don't necessarily warrant a suspension.

tendev
02-26-2016, 02:28 PM
I wonder what the reaction of the media would have been if the roles were reversed and Allen got tripped? Let's have a poll on that.

1. Grayson Allen deserved it because he smacked the guy first.
2. Grayson Allen deserved it because .... well he is Grayson Allen and Duke gets all the calls anyway
3. Boys will be boys
4. That was not an intentional trip
5. Who cares? Nothing here to see
6. I did not know about it because ESPN did not write any story because no one cares.
7. Grayson Allen should watch where he is going.

dukebluesincebirth
02-26-2016, 02:34 PM
I wonder what the reaction of the media would have been if the roles were reversed and Allen got tripped? Let's have a poll on that.

1. Grayson Allen deserved it because he smacked the guy first.
2. Grayson Allen deserved it because ... well he is Grayson Allen and Duke gets all the calls anyway
3. Boys will be boys
4. That was not an intentional trip
5. Who cares? Nothing here to see
6. I did not know about it because ESPN did not write any story because no one cares.
7. Grayson Allen should watch where he is going.

Would definitely be #6.

Devilwin
02-26-2016, 02:40 PM
Grayson needs to get himself under control, especially now, at this point in the season, when one game can mean a difference in tourney seeding. We need him to be on the court.

AustinDevil
02-26-2016, 02:41 PM
If you review the video, you can see that the ref is clearly NOT looking at them. It looks to me like his eyes were directed to the other side of the court, where the FSU players were harassing Jones for no apparent reason. His eyes move toward Grayson and Rathan-Mayes about the time Rathan-Mayes goes sprawling onto the floor.

I think the reason he didn't make a call is because he didn't see what happened.

We may or may not ever know where the ref's attention was, but if this were a Premier League soccer match, that would be the key question: an incident that the ref sees and handles in real time--even if the ref handles it by waving it off, and later video evidence shows that there was behavior that should have been penalized--is not reviewable for post-game punishment for a player involved. If the ref entirely missed it, however, it is reviewable and a player or players may be penalized, including future-match suspensions, based on what the video shows.

luburch
02-26-2016, 02:43 PM
Sounds to me like he just needs to spend a night in the box :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvwqK2gn3S0

Chicken Little
02-26-2016, 02:47 PM
Have I just missed it, or has anyone gathered a quote from Xavier Rathan-Mayes? I'd be interested to hear his, or Leonard Hamilton's opinion of what happened. As several have indicated, XRM didn't seem too upset about it at the time. Doesn't excuse the trip - I think Grayson did a boneheaded thing, and (especially since it isn't his first time doing so) he's facing rightful criticism. If the ref standing nearby wasn't watching the play, and XRM complained that he was tripped, the ref has the ability to review the replay, right? Needed to be handled in-game. League action now, from a strongly worded statement to a suspension, would be absurd in my opinion. If K sees fit to have a conversation with him about it, make him apologize to his teammates or run him till he pukes, that's up to him. Handle it internally.

At the end of the day, it feels a lot like ESPN is trying to prove their hypothesis (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14644805/grayson-allen-being-hated-white-player-duke-blue-devils). I don't remember front-page news or SportsCenter lead-ins for Adam Woodbury, who kept three stooges-ing opponents last year (Other than on Deadspin (http://deadspin.com/iowas-adam-woodbury-cant-stop-poking-people-in-the-eye-1684549848)).

Grayson needs to be smarter. Especially at the very end of such a lopsided game. We need to be smarter than to give ESPN clicks for this garbage reporting.

Tom B.
02-26-2016, 02:54 PM
I vote for:

(e) Retroactive technical foul on Daniel Ewing.




Sounds to me like he just needs to spend a night in the box :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvwqK2gn3S0

Or if you prefer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWOT3frOk0k&ebc=ANyPxKoSJLjie3_ME7MByBqeCo4hHkk81HAYbNKwFX8gDx VaT2yJBdFKTu-3hDdPEET-ihgbFQcWW8YJmAiE5gagXtJhZR4jpA

elvis14
02-26-2016, 02:57 PM
I voted nothing because nothing out of the norm happened. This is a complete overreaction by the media, especially TMZ, oops, I mean ESPN. Please Duke fans, do not get caught up in this hype.

Last night, I was disappointed that ESPN chose to cover this non-event instead of the actual game (where GA led us to victory). What's more disappointing is the overreaction by Duke fans. This was a non-event. There should be no suspension. If you notice that after the FSU player falls, the ref immediately gives him a talking to. Why? Because he was the problem NOT GRAYSON. I can not believe what I'm reading here today. The fact that we even have a poll up, much less one that actually includes a choice to suspend is truly sad.

HokieEngineer
02-26-2016, 03:00 PM
(As additional information, I'll point out that Melchionni fouled him before the trip and had undercut him on a layup attempt in a previous game.) In that case, I thought a one-game suspension (instituted by Tech, not the ACC) was appropriate.

In this case, I think one-game suspension instituted by Duke would also be appropriate. Allen has deliberately committed acts that have no place in sound basketball not once, but twice now. I think you would expect a suspension from his coach.

OZ
02-26-2016, 03:01 PM
I saw that ESPN had a talking heads segment about Grayson and tripping. Funny, they didn't do a segment about what's his name from L'ville throwing elbows to the head and then trying to fight people afterwards.
ESPN gotta drum up some controversy!


Do people still watch ESPN when not watching a game?

Matches
02-26-2016, 03:09 PM
Do people still watch ESPN when not watching a game?

If I could figure out a way to not watch ESPN when I *am* watching the game, I would. Between endless discussion of the NBA and Joe Lunardi's made-up fantasy bracket, it's unwatchable.

elvis14
02-26-2016, 03:15 PM
In this case, I think one-game suspension instituted by Duke would also be appropriate. Allen has deliberately committed acts that have no place in sound basketball not once, but twice now. I think you would expect a suspension from his coach.

A suspension would be so wildly inappropriate and over the top it shouldn't even be on the table.

Let's not forget what happened in that Louisville game. GA took the ball to the rim. A L'ville player attempted to get out of GA's way as to not foul him. He failed, did not get out of the the way an unintentionally fouled/undercut GA. Missed call #1 by refs. L'ville then chases down the ball attempts to step over GA and GA trips him. No call. Missed call #2 by refs. The ball is lost out of bounds and is at first awarded to Duke (because it went off the L'ville player who was tripped). Realizing that they had botched things badly and knowing they couldn't give the ball to Duke the refs decided to review the play, gave GA a foul, etc. If they had not blown either call it would have never been reviewed and would never have been overblown. Note GA tripped the guy and he shouldn't have but if it was any other teams player it wouldn't have been covered by the media at all. Also note it was not a 'dangerous' play or anything silly like that, he tripped the guy on a basketball court not crossing the street in busy traffic.

Last night, GA once again tripped a guy and was wrong. And once again it's been overhyped by the media. Coach K should talk to him in private about the matter and that's the end of it. And let's not forget that right before that FSU player fell, he came up from behind GA and bumped him with 4 seconds left in the game. That doesn't make GA right, he was wrong. But that FSU player doesn't get tripped and create this non-event if he isn't being chippy in the first place.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-26-2016, 03:22 PM
I don't think he should be suspended for that play. Both trips were reactionary and were heat of the moment type things. Its not like he was planning on tripping someone the whole game and just waiting for the right moment. I think they would have already announced a suspension if they were planning on doing it. The most K might do is not start him or maybe sit him for a half at Pitt but I doubt even that. We're overreacting in my expert opinion on overreacting. So lets chill and look forward to Sundays game at Pitt, where we can expect more physical old Big East style basketball with lots of pushing, shoving, inhibiting players freedom of movement, etc etc.

sewdog
02-26-2016, 03:36 PM
I'm not coming here with the intent to flame, but I have read most of the responses to this thread and I see that your opinions pretty much cover the spectrum. To those who say it was nothing out of the ordinary and that neither Coach K or GA should have any comment on the matter, you should know that the eyes of the basketball world are on Grayson and that the opinion being formed of him is not good. I understand that you want to defend a player who you feel is every other team's priority target. Grayson plays hard. He's physical, but to me the reason he gets beat up like you believe he does is because he makes his living driving the lane. He's not getting popped in the jaw or bonked in the head out at the three point line. He drives the lane and invites contact. That's what happens in the paint. He might not get every call he deserves, but his 183 free throw attempts trail only those of Cat Barber and Marques Georges-Hunt, two other guards who make a point of driving the lane. I'd argue that if Grayson was basically his team's only option (like Barber and Hunt are) he'd probably have shot 250 free throws by now.

However, what Grayson did last night and earlier this month is a childish display of his uber-competitiveness. If the ACC takes action, it will not be because last night's episode was especially egregious (but it is obvious that he did it on purpose to anyone who watches video of either episode) but rather because he now has a pattern of behavior that is unacceptable. It has to be unacceptable to Coach K as well. He is the protector of the Duke brand and this reflects badly on that brand. If Grayson's own play is physical then he is not entitled to lash out when he is the recipient of the same type of play. He might not like it and he (and you) may think he is being unfairly targeted here, but the video evidence is there for everyone to see. There is a difference between Grayson getting elbowed during a scuffle for a loose ball and deliberately tripping another player. The video does not support GA's claim that he was provoked immediately prior to XRM's break down the floor. It just doesn't. Grayson was pissed about what had transpired over the course of the game and he reacted badly. I don't think his actions are in any way defensible. Has this been blown out of proportion by the media? Probably. But you are Duke, college basketball's reigning champion and longtime 800-lb gorilla, so expecting sympathy from anyone outside of your fan base is folly. Enmity goes with your position as college hoops' top program.

CameronBornAndBred
02-26-2016, 03:50 PM
I haven't seen anyone post it, but if so, apologies.

The league is taking a look. I guess it didn't help Grayson that the associate commissioner was at the game.

https://twitter.com/jgravleyWRAL/status/703238808213401600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/allen-s-trip-now-in-league-s-hand-/15431574/

bob blue devil
02-26-2016, 03:57 PM
my opinion, for the little it is worth:
- yes, he did it on purpose
- no, the action itself is not a big deal; pretty harmless in the grand scheme of dirty plays
- yes, it's an embarrassing look - more immature than anything
- yes, he should be punished - sometimes you just need to punish people for being stupid; going back to the same trick after being busted the first time? that's punishment worthy stupid.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-26-2016, 04:08 PM
I'm not coming here with the intent to flame, but I have read most of the responses to this thread and I see that your opinions pretty much cover the spectrum. To those who say it was nothing out of the ordinary and that neither Coach K or GA should have any comment on the matter, you should know that the eyes of the basketball world are on Grayson and that the opinion being formed of him is not good. I understand that you want to defend a player who you feel is every other team's priority target. Grayson plays hard. He's physical, but to me the reason he gets beat up like you believe he does is because he makes his living driving the lane. He's not getting popped in the jaw or bonked in the head out at the three point line. He drives the lane and invites contact. That's what happens in the paint. He might not get every call he deserves, but his 183 free throw attempts trail only those of Cat Barber and Marques Georges-Hunt, two other guards who make a point of driving the lane. I'd argue that if Grayson was basically his team's only option (like Barber and Hunt are) he'd probably have shot 250 free throws by now.

However, what Grayson did last night and earlier this month is a childish display of his uber-competitiveness. If the ACC takes action, it will not be because last night's episode was especially egregious (but it is obvious that he did it on purpose to anyone who watches video of either episode) but rather because he now has a pattern of behavior that is unacceptable. It has to be unacceptable to Coach K as well. He is the protector of the Duke brand and this reflects badly on that brand. If Grayson's own play is physical then he is not entitled to lash out when he is the recipient of the same type of play. He might not like it and he (and you) may think he is being unfairly targeted here, but the video evidence is there for everyone to see. There is a difference between Grayson getting elbowed during a scuffle for a loose ball and deliberately tripping another player. The video does not support GA's claim that he was provoked immediately prior to XRM's break down the floor. It just doesn't. Grayson was pissed about what had transpired over the course of the game and he reacted badly. I don't think his actions are in any way defensible. Has this been blown out of proportion by the media? Probably. But you are Duke, college basketball's reigning champion and longtime 800-lb gorilla, so expecting sympathy from anyone outside of your fan base is folly. Enmity goes with your position as college hoops' top program.


So just because we are Duke we have to make an example of someone? That's silly, the only thing Duke has to do is put the best team on the court and win as many games as possible. I imagine Coach K has talked to Grayson and that will be the end of it. Just as He talked to Christian and Bobby when they got out of hand, just as he talked to Justice last year and Dahntey Jones. You want to corral this behavior but at the same time you got to unleash it. Its what makes those players great, that will to win and not take crap from anyone.

As far as Grayson driving to the basket inviting physical play that's also not the point. He also gets held on the perimeter, shoved off his cuts, elbowed on screens. Freedom of motion should mean freedom of motion. The kid is a sophomore in college and before he even became the star of the team he was labelled as the next "hated white Duke player" I'm so sick of that narrative that I am almost rooting for Duke players to start acting like the schools they play against. Getting in the other teams face, screaming after dunks and staring down other players, yelling at the opponents bench etc. All of these things happened just this season from other teams against Duke. But its Duke right so its ok, you have to get physical with them cause they are "soft." But once one of our players gets tough and does anything remotely not choir boy like the media and opposing fans are all over it.

You can't have it both ways, either Duke players are soft and just take the physical abuse and trash talk. Or they aren't and they can react like other players do. Personally I could care less what other fans, or the media or anyone else thinks about Grayson or Duke. I am glad Grayson is the way he is, and I wouldn't want to tame him at all. You gotta take the good with the bad with a player like him and unleash him on the enemy. Make no mistake basketball is war especially this time of year, and I want my elite troops as ruthless and cold hearted as possible.

In closing the rest of the country, the rest of The ACC, The media, and opposing fans can suck it up. Keep calling Duke a "soft" program and advocating physicality against us and then crying when a Duke guy gets chippy. We will keep collecting championships and wins which is all that matters this time of year. The time for moral victories is over, its win at all costs time.

Devilwin
02-26-2016, 04:08 PM
Just saw it for the first time. Didn't look intentional to me.

Tom B.
02-26-2016, 04:11 PM
Per Andy Katz, a few minutes ago:


Florida State coach Leonard Hamilton told ESPN Friday that Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski called him Friday to apologize for Grayson Allen's trip of Xavier Rathan-Mayes in the final seconds of Thursday night's game at Cameron Indoor Stadium. "He acknowledged the fact and apologized to our staff and to let Xavier know too. We accepted it and moved on. It's the end of it. I was proud of the way Xavier handled it. We've done moved on. We don't want to let it become an issue. It's over."

Kjeffrey
02-26-2016, 04:11 PM
ESPN is reporting GA was issued a letter of reprimand from the ACC.

KandG
02-26-2016, 04:11 PM
Dana O'Neil reporting the ACC reprimanded Allen. That sounds about right. Grayson's action clearly part of a larger sequence of small (and maybe not-so-small) provocations involving him and other FSU defenders, and Grayson got caught doing something stupid at the end of it all. Case closed.

TKG
02-26-2016, 04:12 PM
According to Andy Katz at ESPN, Leonard Hamilton confirmed tht K called Hamilton to apologize for Grayson's actions.

Kjeffrey
02-26-2016, 04:12 PM
Per Andy Katz, a few minutes ago:

I wonder if Rick Pitino called to apologize after the Louisville game on Saturday.

sewdog
02-26-2016, 04:15 PM
So just because we are Duke we have to make an example of someone? That's silly, the only thing Duke has to do is put the best team on the court and win as many games as possible. I imagine Coach K has talked to Grayson and that will be the end of it. Just as He talked to Christian and Bobby when they got out of hand, just as he talked to Justice last year and Dahntey Jones. You want to corral this behavior but at the same time you got to unleash it. Its what makes those players great, that will to win and not take crap from anyone.

As far as Grayson driving to the basket inviting physical play that's also not the point. He also gets held on the perimeter, shoved off his cuts, elbowed on screens. Freedom of motion should mean freedom of motion. The kid is a sophomore in college and before he even became the star of the team he was labelled as the next "hated white Duke player" I'm so sick of that narrative that I am almost rooting for Duke players to start acting like the schools they play against. Getting in the other teams face, screaming after dunks and staring down other players, yelling at the opponents bench etc. All of these things happened just this season from other teams against Duke. But its Duke right so its ok, you have to get physical with them cause they are "soft." But once one of our players gets tough and does anything remotely not choir boy like the media and opposing fans are all over it.

You can't have it both ways, either Duke players are soft and just take the physical abuse and trash talk. Or they aren't and they can react like other players do. Personally I could care less what other fans, or the media or anyone else thinks about Grayson or Duke. I am glad Grayson is the way he is, and I wouldn't want to tame him at all. You gotta take the good with the bad with a player like him and unleash him on the enemy. Make no mistake basketball is war especially this time of year, and I want my elite troops as ruthless and cold hearted as possible.

In closing the rest of the country, the rest of The ACC, The media, and opposing fans can suck it up. Keep calling Duke a "soft" program and advocating physicality against us and then crying when a Duke guy gets chippy. We will keep collecting championships and wins which is all that matters this time of year. The time for moral victories is over, its win at all costs time.


No, you don't have to make an example just because you are Duke. You have to make an example because that was a BS play. I'm a Virginia fan and if Malcolm Brogdon did something like that, I'd advocate a suspension bc physical play is physical play, but lashing out with an elbow or a foot or a fist is away from the ball is outside the bounds of physicality and acceptable play. Being ultra-competitive is great and being willing to do whatever it takes to win is a sign of greatness, but the competitiveness has to be within the bounds of acceptable play.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-26-2016, 04:16 PM
I wonder if Rick Pitino called to apologize after the Louisville game on Saturday.

No other programs aren't held to the same standard that Duke is

DukieInKansas
02-26-2016, 04:17 PM
I did not vote in the poll and, since the ACC response is out, won't now - but would have gone with Coach handling internally - talk to GA, don't start him on Sunday, make him write "I will not trip an opposing player" on the white board however many times, whatever Coach thinks is appropriate.

I think the reprimand is appropriate from the ACC. But, no matter how the ACC came down on this, people will complain because he wasn't punished enough. Same would happen if they suspended him for the rest of the season - however long it lasted. No way to make everyone happy in this.

Tom B.
02-26-2016, 04:19 PM
Laura Keeley also confirms that the ACC reprimanded Grayson for The Trip, and no other action will be taken.

https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/703326890975698944

flyingdutchdevil
02-26-2016, 04:21 PM
Any other trip or intentional play from Grayson - provoked or unprovoked - and Grayson will be suspended.

He needs to keep his emotions in check.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-26-2016, 04:24 PM
6040

OZ
02-26-2016, 04:33 PM
I haven't seen anyone post it, but if so, apologies.

The league is taking a look.

Does anyone know if the "league" took a look at the "elbow" incident at Louisville? Since this is not just about one player and/or Duke, I am sure letters of reprimand were written and apologies were made.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-26-2016, 04:40 PM
Does anyone know if the "league" took a look at the "elbow" incident at Louisville? Since this is not just about one player and/or Duke, I am sure letters of reprimand were written and apologies were made.

I just googled it, the only things I could find are Grayson deserved it for being Grayson, watch this video of everyone's most hated player getting what he deserves, aggressive fight for ball leads to unintentional yet vicious elbow to Grayson Allen's Face, Grayson Allen's tries to punch UL's Johnson leads to Elbow in the face.

You get the idea, its ok if it happens to a Duke player cause were Duke. Can you tell I am sick of this crap, I have never been so Duke and everyone else can go to Hell in my entire Duke fandom.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-26-2016, 04:42 PM
No, you don't have to make an example just because you are Duke. You have to make an example because that was a BS play. I'm a Virginia fan and if Malcolm Brogdon did something like that, I'd advocate a suspension bc physical play is physical play, but lashing out with an elbow or a foot or a fist is away from the ball is outside the bounds of physicality and acceptable play. Being ultra-competitive is great and being willing to do whatever it takes to win is a sign of greatness, but the competitiveness has to be within the bounds of acceptable play.

If Malcolm Brogdon did it people would write it off as an accident or a bang bang type play. You might advocate for a suspension and that admirable, but the media and other fans wouldn't care what so ever. Hell if he did it to a Duke player he might even get praised for it.

oldnavy
02-26-2016, 04:45 PM
I'm not coming here with the intent to flame, but I have read most of the responses to this thread and I see that your opinions pretty much cover the spectrum. To those who say it was nothing out of the ordinary and that neither Coach K or GA should have any comment on the matter, you should know that the eyes of the basketball world are on Grayson and that the opinion being formed of him is not good. I understand that you want to defend a player who you feel is every other team's priority target. Grayson plays hard. He's physical, but to me the reason he gets beat up like you believe he does is because he makes his living driving the lane. He's not getting popped in the jaw or bonked in the head out at the three point line. He drives the lane and invites contact. That's what happens in the paint. He might not get every call he deserves, but his 183 free throw attempts trail only those of Cat Barber and Marques Georges-Hunt, two other guards who make a point of driving the lane. I'd argue that if Grayson was basically his team's only option (like Barber and Hunt are) he'd probably have shot 250 free throws by now.

However, what Grayson did last night and earlier this month is a childish display of his uber-competitiveness. If the ACC takes action, it will not be because last night's episode was especially egregious (but it is obvious that he did it on purpose to anyone who watches video of either episode) but rather because he now has a pattern of behavior that is unacceptable. It has to be unacceptable to Coach K as well. He is the protector of the Duke brand and this reflects badly on that brand. If Grayson's own play is physical then he is not entitled to lash out when he is the recipient of the same type of play. He might not like it and he (and you) may think he is being unfairly targeted here, but the video evidence is there for everyone to see. There is a difference between Grayson getting elbowed during a scuffle for a loose ball and deliberately tripping another player. The video does not support GA's claim that he was provoked immediately prior to XRM's break down the floor. It just doesn't. Grayson was pissed about what had transpired over the course of the game and he reacted badly. I don't think his actions are in any way defensible. Has this been blown out of proportion by the media? Probably. But you are Duke, college basketball's reigning champion and longtime 800-lb gorilla, so expecting sympathy from anyone outside of your fan base is folly. Enmity goes with your position as college hoops' top program.

I can only speak for myself, but as a Duke fan, I gave up giving a flip what anybody thinks about Duke many, many, many years ago.

But, thinking that we need or expect sympathy is laughable....

weezie
02-26-2016, 04:48 PM
Public reprimand reprimand of the officials?! That's rich. I would go out, buy a hat and eat it.
Grayson should take that letter of reprimand, frame it and gaze mournfully at it before every game. Be really sad and frowny.

Gosh, what's going to happen now?!!! Will everybody boo us?! :eek:
espn can go straight to hell.

LGD.

BandAlum83
02-26-2016, 04:50 PM
Don't want to get flamed for this, but if memory serves me correct, wasn't Grant Hill knocked for not be aggressive enough, soft, or too nice a guy? I can remember people saying if he ha that killer instinct, he should be the next Jordan.

I don't even think putting a lesser team on his back and taking them to the final four in '94 stopped that meme.

Am I tripping? (Lol..seriously, no pun was intended there. I just read the posting and realized what I said)

CameronDuke
02-26-2016, 04:50 PM
No, you don't have to make an example just because you are Duke. You have to make an example because that was a BS play. I'm a Virginia fan and if Malcolm Brogdon did something like that, I'd advocate a suspension bc physical play is physical play, but lashing out with an elbow or a foot or a fist is away from the ball is outside the bounds of physicality and acceptable play. Being ultra-competitive is great and being willing to do whatever it takes to win is a sign of greatness, but the competitiveness has to be within the bounds of acceptable play.

You make valid points and I agree with a lot of what you said. Comparing Allen and Brogdon is a bad comparison, though. Brogdon is nowhere near as targeted for rough play by the opposition as Grayson is. Brogdon is also a 5th year senior and turns 24 later this year. Grayson is an immature sophomore that just turned 20 years old 4 months ago. How many stupid things did you and I do when we were 20? He did something stupid, but when I was 20, if I endured anywhere near the grabbing, jawing, pushing, tugging, opposition getting in my face trying to start beef, opposition talking trash to me, etc. that Grayson endures every game, I'm 100% sure I'd react by taking matters into my own hands and retaliating. He needs to mature, and I'm sure Coach K is handling this in house. I'm glad you can point out what the national perception is of Duke, but I really don't care and I'm quite certain neither does Coach K or Grayson.

Good luck against UNC tomorrow. Will be rooting for Virginia.

Ian
02-26-2016, 04:57 PM
Maybe all the bruhaha will lower Grayson's stock in the draft and he'll have to come back for another year. I bet the haters weren't thinking about that when they tried to make a mountain out of a molehill with this nonsense.

CameronDuke
02-26-2016, 05:06 PM
For those that brag and get their excitement from winning sportsmanship awards and Cub Scout like merit badges for solid displays of being a good sport, kudos. You have my congratulations. I like winning national championships more, though. Last I checked this was college basketball, a revenue driven men's game, not Cub Scouts. Let's get real.

Jeffrey
02-26-2016, 05:13 PM
Don't want to get flamed for this, but if memory serves me correct, wasn't Grant Hill knocked for not be aggressive enough, soft, or too nice a guy?

Compared to most of his early teammates, he was.

fuse
02-26-2016, 05:14 PM
What makes this thread interesting is the mix of was it right or wrong, big deal or little deal, and consequences.

A reasonable fan ought to agree it was wrong.
No justification for it, period.

Was it a big deal? Mountain out of a molehill?
As an isolated event, maybe it is a little deal.
As a pattern, it becomes a big deal (and bad judgment).

I don't really want to weigh in on consequences.
Given the circumstances, there should be consequences.

Unfortunately for Duke, my hope is those consequences do not appear in a tourney game and take what has been a season full of fight and heart to end on a sour note.

Grayson now has no margin for error and will not be given the benefit of the doubt.

Kjeffrey
02-26-2016, 05:20 PM
No, you don't have to make an example just because you are Duke. You have to make an example because that was a BS play. I'm a Virginia fan and if Malcolm Brogdon did something like that, I'd advocate a suspension bc physical play is physical play, but lashing out with an elbow or a foot or a fist is away from the ball is outside the bounds of physicality and acceptable play. Being ultra-competitive is great and being willing to do whatever it takes to win is a sign of greatness, but the competitiveness has to be within the bounds of acceptable play.

Completely agree. GA deliberately tripped an opponent and should face the consequences. My question is do you think the elbow to the head by the Louisville player on Saturday was within the bounds of acceptable play? Or would he have to do that twice to receive a reprimand from the ACC? I will not make excuses for GA but I can't help but wonder why the rules seem to be different depending on the uniform a player wears.

sagegrouse
02-26-2016, 05:25 PM
Anyway, from Twitter:


@LauraKeeley.
ACC reprimands Grayson Allen for tripping FSU's Xavier Rathan-Mayes. No other action taken

Nicole Mobach ‏@NMobach 55m55 minutes ago
@laurakeeley is a reprimand just a "warning"? So to speak.

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 52m52 minutes ago
@NMobach if even that. Just a public acknowledgement that he tripped him

Nicole Mobach ‏@NMobach 50m50 minutes ago
@laurakeeley makes sense. Thanks for explaining. Hohum, says the ACC.

My only contribution are three observations: (a) it occurred with under ten seconds left in a game with a 15-point margin, (b) XRM didn't seem to object to Grayson's move, suggesting there was some back-and-forth action and (c) the official appeared to chastise XRM, confirming point (b).

devildeac
02-26-2016, 05:28 PM
And now that Grayson has been spotlighted/highlighted (reprimanded yet?) and you're opposing coaches, do they instruct their players to keep (increase?) grabbing, holding, shoving, hacking, bumping Allen and see if you can continue to get away with it most of the time and maybe even provoke him to retaliate (again)? This is where he needs to learn his lesson immediately AND K needs to be his biggest critic/teacher AND his biggest advocate if the level of physicality escalates.

CrazyNotCrazie
02-26-2016, 05:30 PM
Completely agree. GA deliberately tripped an opponent and should face the consequences. My question is do you think the elbow to the head by the Louisville player on Saturday was within the bounds of acceptable play? Or would he have to do that twice to receive a reprimand from the ACC? I will not make excuses for GA but I can't help but wonder why the rules seem to be different depending on the uniform a player wears.

The Louisville player was assessed a T. Grayson was not penalized at all. I think the ESPN-driven masses would not be nearly as upset if Grayson had been given a T for this, even though it would have been totally meaningless with a few seconds left in the game - they just see this as Duke getting away with one again. Completely irrational, but I see that as the difference in perception.

uh_no
02-26-2016, 05:34 PM
For those that brag and get their excitement from winning sportsmanship awards and Cub Scout like merit badges for solid displays of being a good sport, kudos. You have my congratulations. I like winning national championships more, though. Last I checked this was college basketball, a revenue driven men's game, not Cub Scouts. Let's get real.

This is the same attitude that the cheaters on the hill have.

This is Duke University. We hold ourselves to an extremely high standard. If you don't like high standards, than maybe this isn't the team for you....perhaps some other school would be happy to oblige your "win at all costs" attitude.

As the sign at WW says

"A Cut Above"

FerryFor50
02-26-2016, 05:35 PM
The Louisville player was assessed a T. Grayson was not penalized at all. I think the ESPN-driven masses would not be nearly as upset if Grayson had been given a T for this, even though it would have been totally meaningless with a few seconds left in the game - they just see this as Duke getting away with one again. Completely irrational, but I see that as the difference in perception.

Not true. They were just as upset when Grayson got a T in the first L'ville game.

The only way they'd feel vindicated is if Allen was banned for life. Then they'd turn their hate to Luke Kennard.

sagegrouse
02-26-2016, 05:38 PM
The Louisville player was assessed a T. Grayson was not penalized at all. I think the ESPN-driven masses would not be nearly as upset if Grayson had been given a T for this, even though it would have been totally meaningless with a few seconds left in the game - they just see this as Duke getting away with one again. Completely irrational, but I see that as the difference in perception.

That's what Gary Williams said on ESPN-980 a few minutes ago. Of course, I don't think Gary believes a word of it -- he was just playing to his listener audience.

Kjeffrey
02-26-2016, 05:42 PM
The Louisville player was assessed a T. Grayson was not penalized at all. I think the ESPN-driven masses would not be nearly as upset if Grayson had been given a T for this, even though it would have been totally meaningless with a few seconds left in the game - they just see this as Duke getting away with one again. Completely irrational, but I see that as the difference in perception.

You said it perfectly - completely irrational. It is perplexing to me that the college basketball world is up in arms about the trips but an elbow to the head gets no attention whatsoever. The GA story was talked about on SportsNation, Around the Horn and PTI today. I didn't hear anything about the UL elbow earlier in the week.

CameronBlue
02-26-2016, 05:42 PM
For those that brag and get their excitement from winning sportsmanship awards and Cub Scout like merit badges for solid displays of being a good sport, kudos. You have my congratulations. I like winning national championships more, though. Last I checked this was college basketball, a revenue driven men's game, not Cub Scouts. Let's get real.

Not sure what your comment has to do with this thread and all the folks who want to trade a National Title for a good sportsmanship award which I think is exactly zero so far but the value of a good straw man-esque argument is just so dog gone underrated. Now those folks in powder blue are another case...but I'm going to give you + sporkz just because I'm partial to sarcasm, and cause it's Friday.

gurufrisbee
02-26-2016, 05:42 PM
Absolutely nothing. There was nothing intentional or malicious about either "trip". In both cases:

* Allen got physically knocked to the ground by the other team with no call at all
* The other player ran into where Allen was laying

Unless the rules say that when you get knocked down you should assume the fetal position until every last sole has left the building just in case one of them runs into you and trips over your legs, then this is nothing but Duke hatred run amok.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-26-2016, 05:46 PM
And now that Grayson has been spotlighted/highlighted (reprimanded yet?) and you're opposing coaches, do they instruct their players to keep (increase?) grabbing, holding, shoving, hacking, bumping Allen and see if you can continue to get away with it most of the time and maybe even provoke him to retaliate (again)? This is where he needs to learn his lesson immediately AND K needs to be his biggest critic/teacher AND his biggest advocate if the level of physicality escalates.

This is my biggest concern. Allen now, if possible, has an even BIGGER target on him, and a reputation for being a hot head. A lot of teams are going to poke this bear, and Grayson will have to channel his Buddha Battier to not fight back physically

Also, I too find this blind defense of Grayson very off putting. And using the media coverage or the early physicalities is irrelevant.

You don't punch/eye-gouge/trip/crotch-smack people on the basketball court. Not because it is a foul, not because you might get caught, but because it is UNSPORTSMANLIKE. Laugh all you want, but once upon a time that word meant something beyond excessive TD celebrations.

elvis14
02-26-2016, 05:47 PM
The Louisville player was assessed a T. Grayson was not penalized at all. I think the ESPN-driven masses would not be nearly as upset if Grayson had been given a T for this, even though it would have been totally meaningless with a few seconds left in the game - they just see this as Duke getting away with one again. Completely irrational, but I see that as the difference in perception.

Grayson wasn't given a T because when it happened the ref found the FSU player and talked to him about his inappropriate actions that caused this whole mess.

ACC response...well since it's Duke we can't just do nothing....so we'll ah, idunno, reprimand him. Also knowns as "move along, nothing to see here".

Also, as someone mentioned that if Malcom Brogdon had done this it would be different. Yes, the difference is that nobody would even know or care. It wouldn't be replayed or even noticed. Good luck to UVa tomorrow 9F

BD80
02-26-2016, 05:56 PM
Just saw it for the first time. Didn't look intentional to me.

He intentionally reacted to the contact to his back by mildly thrusting his foot backwards (somewhat the same force as Laettner's "stomp"). But his action resulted in a trip. So he did "trip" the FSU player even though he may not have intended to. He was still wrong for kicking his foot back.


ESPN is reporting GA was issued a letter of reprimand from the ACC.

Oh crap! Double secret probation, but everybody knows about it!

Indoor66
02-26-2016, 06:35 PM
I am terribly tired of the whole issue. When do we play again? Maybe we can concentrate on Pitt? :confused::mad::cool:

fgb
02-26-2016, 06:54 PM
grayson is one of the most gifted players i remember watchng in the past decade, in terms of drawing contact (by which i mean fouls--legitimate fouls). fsu, on the other hand, is one of the more physical teams in the league. ang given that, grayson went to the line exactly one time last night.

so he might have been a bit frustrated.

i want to be clear here: i think he tripped the dude on purpose. and i think that, at the end of the day, there is simply no excuse for that. none. zero. nada. he is wearing a duke uniform, and as such, represents duke. so, no.

but--to paraphrase/quote the great chris rock: i understand.

not to say it's okay. but, i remember being 19 or 20 years old. i remember playing, and i know how i would have felt if i was getting hammered every time i drove the ball (albeit at a hilariously lower level of competition), and, yeah, i would have been pissed.

add to that, we were up by healthy double digits--with less than ten seconds to play--and trying to, graciously, dribble out the clock. and fsu decides to trap, and intentionally foul, as if it's a 2 possession game. i mean, honestly, how is that respectful of either the player or the game?

so grayson lashed out. he shouldn't have. but i don't hate him for it, because although i can see the error in that from my 50 year old perspective, when i was 19 i would likely have done about the same thing, after being beat up all game with zero acknowledgement of that fact by the gentlemen who had the authority to do so. the kid is a kid. i have a kid; i love him, and he screws up a lot, but he's a good kid and i'm proud of him.

and i'm proud of grayson. the kid is a fighter, and i'll take the good with the bad. do i wish he could perfectly control his fire? you bet. but, do i want him to douse that fire? no. no way. that fight in that kid is such a huge, huge part of who this team is. and i love the fight in this team. i love it. and so, thank you acc for the reprimand; i'm sure the staff has done the same.

and thank you grayson, for giving us every damn thing you have, for burning every ounce of fuel you have in your body for us every time you step out on that court in a duke uniform.

Furniture
02-26-2016, 07:12 PM
Next play.
Why not close the thread since all involved say the matter is closed!

DukePA
02-26-2016, 07:18 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4696397-grayson-allen-trip-mike-krzyzewski-apology-fsu-duk

Coach K apologized for the incident.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-26-2016, 07:20 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4696397-grayson-allen-trip-mike-krzyzewski-apology-fsu-duk

Coach K apologized for the incident.

What?? No, that's impossible - it wasn't intentional and K loves his aggression!

*eye roll*

Let's close this thread and hope we don't have reason to think of it even again.

kAzE
02-26-2016, 07:28 PM
grayson is one of the most gifted players i remember watchng in the past decade, in terms of drawing contact (by which i mean fouls--legitimate fouls). fsu, on the other hand, is one of the more physical teams in the league. ang given that, grayson went to the line exactly one time last night.

so he might have been a bit frustrated.

i want to be clear here: i think he tripped the dude on purpose. and i think that, at the end of the day, there is simply no excuse for that. none. zero. nada. he is wearing a duke uniform, and as such, represents duke. so, no.

but--to paraphrase/quote the great chris rock: i understand.

not to say it's okay. but, i remember being 19 or 20 years old. i remember playing, and i know how i would have felt if i was getting hammered every time i drove the ball (albeit at a hilariously lower level of competition), and, yeah, i would have been pissed.

add to that, we were up by healthy double digits--with less than ten seconds to play--and trying to, graciously, dribble out the clock. and fsu decides to trap, and intentionally foul, as if it's a 2 possession game. i mean, honestly, how is that respectful of either the player or the game?

so grayson lashed out. he shouldn't have. but i don't hate him for it, because although i can see the error in that from my 50 year old perspective, when i was 19 i would likely have done about the same thing, after being beat up all game with zero acknowledgement of that fact by the gentlemen who had the authority to do so. the kid is a kid. i have a kid; i love him, and he screws up a lot, but he's a good kid and i'm proud of him.

and i'm proud of grayson. the kid is a fighter, and i'll take the good with the bad. do i wish he could perfectly control his fire? you bet. but, do i want him to douse that fire? no. no way. that fight in that kid is such a huge, huge part of who this team is. and i love the fight in this team. i love it. and so, thank you acc for the reprimand; i'm sure the staff has done the same.

and thank you grayson, for giving us every damn thing you have, for burning every ounce of fuel you have in your body for us every time you step out on that court in a duke uniform.

Yep, the thing that caused Grayson to trip guys on both occasions is the very same thing that has carried this Duke team to 21 wins and a monumental upset of Carolina on their home floor. He's just in a near berserker rage every moment he's out there on the floor. The term "warrior" is thrown around quite a bit in sports, but it is an accurate description by Coach K of Grayson. I wish he would stop tripping guys, but sometimes, you gotta take the bad with the good. Hopefully he can get the tripping instinct under control.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-26-2016, 07:29 PM
I'm not coming here with the intent to flame, but I have read most of the responses to this thread and I see that your opinions pretty much cover the spectrum. To those who say it was nothing out of the ordinary and that neither Coach K or GA should have any comment on the matter, you should know that the eyes of the basketball world are on Grayson and that the opinion being formed of him is not good. I understand that you want to defend a player who you feel is every other team's priority target. Grayson plays hard. He's physical, but to me the reason he gets beat up like you believe he does is because he makes his living driving the lane. He's not getting popped in the jaw or bonked in the head out at the three point line. He drives the lane and invites contact. That's what happens in the paint. He might not get every call he deserves, but his 183 free throw attempts trail only those of Cat Barber and Marques Georges-Hunt, two other guards who make a point of driving the lane. I'd argue that if Grayson was basically his team's only option (like Barber and Hunt are) he'd probably have shot 250 free throws by now.

However, what Grayson did last night and earlier this month is a childish display of his uber-competitiveness. If the ACC takes action, it will not be because last night's episode was especially egregious (but it is obvious that he did it on purpose to anyone who watches video of either episode) but rather because he now has a pattern of behavior that is unacceptable. It has to be unacceptable to Coach K as well. He is the protector of the Duke brand and this reflects badly on that brand. If Grayson's own play is physical then he is not entitled to lash out when he is the recipient of the same type of play. He might not like it and he (and you) may think he is being unfairly targeted here, but the video evidence is there for everyone to see. There is a difference between Grayson getting elbowed during a scuffle for a loose ball and deliberately tripping another player. The video does not support GA's claim that he was provoked immediately prior to XRM's break down the floor. It just doesn't. Grayson was pissed about what had transpired over the course of the game and he reacted badly. I don't think his actions are in any way defensible. Has this been blown out of proportion by the media? Probably. But you are Duke, college basketball's reigning champion and longtime 800-lb gorilla, so expecting sympathy from anyone outside of your fan base is folly. Enmity goes with your position as college hoops' top program.

Pretty much agree with this whole comment...thanks for saving me the time to write it all out, sporks for you.

I voted for nothing to be done in the poll. Sure, it was a "chippy" play, but not an attempt to put the player on his &$$ and potentially hurt him. Let coach K deal with it and move on.

I will add it's just not smart. With a thin bench, he doesn't need to draw attention from the refs who are going to be watching his play more intently from here on...

tbyers11
02-26-2016, 07:45 PM
ESPN: This story with the headline ACC won't ban Duke's Allen for apparent trip is currently the 2nd headline story on their website
SI: This story is not in the top 15 headlines on their home page and is the 9th story listed on their NCAA Basketball page

Kind of glad our next 2 games are on CBS and ACC Network/ESPN3. Hopefully, something more important can dominate the news cycle on ESPN (maybe Ben Simmons will get a hangnail :)) before the UNC game on March 5th.

Doria
02-26-2016, 07:53 PM
ESPN: This story with the headline ACC won't ban Duke's Allen for apparent trip is currently the 2nd headline story on their website
SI: This story is not in the top 15 headlines on their home page and is the 9th story listed on their NCAA Basketball page

Kind of glad our next 2 games are on CBS and ACC Network/ESPN3. Hopefully, something more important can dominant the news cycle on ESPN (maybe Ben Simmons will get a hangnail :)) before the UNC game on March 5th.

Thank providence that we don't have to play LSU (we don't, right? I mean, LSU must be out of NCAAT consideration, even as much as everyone apparently wants them in), because if Grayson fouled anywhere near Ben Simmons's general vicinity, it'd probably mean rioting, leading to the end of Western civilization.

lotusland
02-26-2016, 07:59 PM
There are 3 vile spewing Grayson hate threads on IC. The heels are seething mad - great job Grayson!!!

I don't see how it could have been intentional. The Louisville trip was obvious and GA looked like he had his hand in the cookie jar. Somehow he's advanced to Jedi Tripmaster. Not sure if he used the force to anticipate the other guys sudden movement or if he actually took control of his mind and caused him to suddenly run over his leg. Impressive either way.

Doria
02-26-2016, 08:04 PM
There are 3 vile spewing Grayson hate threads on IC.

Wait, only three?!! Everyone there must have to work today at once, and wasn't crowded around their computers spewing threads about Duke.

ncexnyc
02-26-2016, 08:13 PM
I would prefer it if our players would refrain from chippy play, however when the other teams believe our kids are pinatas then something has to be done.

The media clearly sets the tone of the debate on this issue with the way they edit the clips that they post with these stories. When all they show is Grayson sticking his leg back and tripping XRM, then that definitely gives a very one sided view of the incident. When a media outlet shows the whole sequence from when Grayson and XRM collide and then XRM follows Grayson over to the sideline and starts messing with Grayson, well that presents a whole different view on the matter.

MarkD83
02-26-2016, 08:29 PM
ESPN: This story with the headline ACC won't ban Duke's Allen for apparent trip is currently the 2nd headline story on their website
SI: This story is not in the top 15 headlines on their home page and is the 9th story listed on their NCAA Basketball page

Kind of glad our next 2 games are on CBS and ACC Network/ESPN3. Hopefully, something more important can dominate the news cycle on ESPN (maybe Ben Simmons will get a hangnail :)) before the UNC game on March 5th.

And my guess is that only the Sporting News is reporting that Coach K apologized, because ESPN could not print that story because it does not fit their narrative that Duke is the bad guy and UNC can't do anything wrong.

Call me when they have journalists at ESPN rather than writers hunting for web hits.

I won't wait up for the call.

cspan37421
02-26-2016, 09:39 PM
Ban him? For crying out loud, it's not like he launched an elbow to the face. What's next? "Duke refuses to expel Allen", "No arrest yet for Allen", "Day 3: Allen Still at Large"

GA needs to learn to not take the bait. The best revenge is playing well.

IMO, it's the refs job to call the game and make foul calls, technical foul calls, ejection calls, etc. That the ref went over to the "victim" right away (instigator?), suggests to me that he knew that he was pushing GA's buttons for some time during the game. I'd like to hear what he thought about that play, but I guess we won't find out.

But GA put Duke in a bad light with that retaliation. No, it's not fair, the media loves to rile up the townies against Duke, and appears to be very biased in their coverage of physicality. We can't control that, but we can limit its effects. If it were a serious violation, like throwing a haymaker, I'd (as his coach) suspend him (how many games, not sure, depends). This was not likely to cause serious injury, but it starts to look like a pattern. He's done this before. I bet others have too - you just don't see it because they don't have DUKE on their chests. I remember Deron Washington did ... but I bet there are all kinds of little dirty plays that go untrumpeted by ESPN because really, who cares unless it helps move forward the grand narrative?

Anyway it may have been minor in terms of dangerous play, but it's no longer minor in terms of PR, which affects the university, and perhaps even the safety of the players and fans in opposing venues. I would give his starting position to Luke Kennard for the next game. I'd still play him, but I'd make him sit pine for awhile. And this would only be, of course, after he expresses remorse for the collateral PR damage he's caused to himself and the university, and made a commitment to me as a coach to knock it off, and only retaliate with superior playmaking. Jahlil needed Elton Brand's mentorship; Grayson may need someone too. Laettner may come to mind, because of the "love tap" and fierce competitiveness, but in terms of his game (and example), Grant Hill, fellow slasher, may be a better choice for a call or visit.

JMHO.

cspan37421
02-26-2016, 09:44 PM
Call me when they have journalists at ESPN rather than writers hunting for web hits.



Don't forget what the "E" stands for in ESPN.

Their job IS to produce web hits. If they can do it by feigning journalistic tendencies, so much the better. But it's not the main goal.

jacone21
02-26-2016, 09:45 PM
I heard that Manziel has been out tripping random people in a J-ville mall, because he's sick of Grayson getting all of the ESPN attention.

rsvman
02-26-2016, 10:36 PM
it would have been better if he would've just shoved him. because now that it's a "pattern" and Grayson is branded as a serial tripper, what happens if somebody actually legitimately accidentally trips on Grayson during a game? he could face ejection for an accident.

or, more nefariously, what's to keep an opponent who's a pretty good actor from pretending to be tripped by Grayson? I think that would be pretty easy to pull off. they might be able to take him out of the game with something as simple as that.

it would be a lot harder to make a ref believe that Grayson had shoved you.

DukieInKansas
02-26-2016, 10:44 PM
Ban him? For crying out loud, it's not like he launched an elbow to the face. What's next? "Duke refuses to expel Allen", "No arrest yet for Allen", "Day 3: Allen Still at Large"

GA needs to learn to not take the bait. The best revenge is playing well.

IMO, it's the refs job to call the game and make foul calls, technical foul calls, ejection calls, etc. That the ref went over to the "victim" right away (instigator?), suggests to me that he knew that he was pushing GA's buttons for some time during the game. I'd like to hear what he thought about that play, but I guess we won't find out.
But GA put Duke in a bad light with that retaliation. No, it's not fair, the media loves to rile up the townies against Duke, and appears to be very biased in their coverage of physicality. We can't control that, but we can limit its effects. If it were a serious violation, like throwing a haymaker, I'd (as his coach) suspend him (how many games, not sure, depends). This was not likely to cause serious injury, but it starts to look like a pattern. He's done this before. I bet others have too - you just don't see it because they don't have DUKE on their chests. I remember Deron Washington did ... but I bet there are all kinds of little dirty plays that go untrumpeted by ESPN because really, who cares unless it helps move forward the grand narrative?

Anyway it may have been minor in terms of dangerous play, but it's no longer minor in terms of PR, which affects the university, and perhaps even the safety of the players and fans in opposing venues. I would give his starting position to Luke Kennard for the next game. I'd still play him, but I'd make him sit pine for awhile. And this would only be, of course, after he expresses remorse for the collateral PR damage he's caused to himself and the university, and made a commitment to me as a coach to knock it off, and only retaliate with superior playmaking. Jahlil needed Elton Brand's mentorship; Grayson may need someone too. Laettner may come to mind, because of the "love tap" and fierce competitiveness, but in terms of his game (and example), Grant Hill, fellow slasher, may be a better choice for a call or visit.

JMHO.

Another possibility is that the Ref went to ask the trippee what happened and said trippee indicated that it was no big deal. It would be very interesting to know what they discussed.

I, too, think having GA sit for the start of the next game would be a good sign that the incident was taken seriously and discussed with GA to be sure it doesn't happen again.

jipops
02-26-2016, 11:09 PM
I'm not coming here with the intent to flame, but I have read most of the responses to this thread and I see that your opinions pretty much cover the spectrum. To those who say it was nothing out of the ordinary and that neither Coach K or GA should have any comment on the matter, you should know that the eyes of the basketball world are on Grayson and that the opinion being formed of him is not good. I understand that you want to defend a player who you feel is every other team's priority target. Grayson plays hard. He's physical, but to me the reason he gets beat up like you believe he does is because he makes his living driving the lane. He's not getting popped in the jaw or bonked in the head out at the three point line. He drives the lane and invites contact. That's what happens in the paint. He might not get every call he deserves, but his 183 free throw attempts trail only those of Cat Barber and Marques Georges-Hunt, two other guards who make a point of driving the lane. I'd argue that if Grayson was basically his team's only option (like Barber and Hunt are) he'd probably have shot 250 free throws by now.

However, what Grayson did last night and earlier this month is a childish display of his uber-competitiveness. If the ACC takes action, it will not be because last night's episode was especially egregious (but it is obvious that he did it on purpose to anyone who watches video of either episode) but rather because he now has a pattern of behavior that is unacceptable. It has to be unacceptable to Coach K as well. He is the protector of the Duke brand and this reflects badly on that brand. If Grayson's own play is physical then he is not entitled to lash out when he is the recipient of the same type of play. He might not like it and he (and you) may think he is being unfairly targeted here, but the video evidence is there for everyone to see. There is a difference between Grayson getting elbowed during a scuffle for a loose ball and deliberately tripping another player. The video does not support GA's claim that he was provoked immediately prior to XRM's break down the floor. It just doesn't. Grayson was pissed about what had transpired over the course of the game and he reacted badly. I don't think his actions are in any way defensible. Has this been blown out of proportion by the media? Probably. But you are Duke, college basketball's reigning champion and longtime 800-lb gorilla, so expecting sympathy from anyone outside of your fan base is folly. Enmity goes with your position as college hoops' top program.

Cat Barber may be State's only option, but are you sure he's taking the ball to the basket any more than Grayson is? For example, Tyler Hansbrough by a good margin led the league in ft attempts in 2008. As we all know that team had plenty of options. For the year Barber has taken significantly more ft's than Allen. I don't think there is a correlation amongst options.

I've watched the game again. Grayson obviously gets pissed at the 4:45 mark when his arm is pulled down by XMR causing him to lose the ball. No foul called. The very next play XMR gets into it with Thornton a little bit. Now again, Grayson took 20 shots in this game and had 2 ft attempts. This seems low for a guy that makes a living driving to the basket, as you stated.

Now let me be clear, I feel like I have to be since you would even suggest any Duke fans are looking for sympathy (umm no). What Grayson did was intentional and dumb. Even if he had been hit in the jaw 20 times it would still have been dumb. But this wasn't some random foolish act that happened in a vaccum. And I do believe there was spillover from the UL game that led to this. But Grayson simply has to grow up. Players are going to be trying to get in his head, just as XMR was so obviously doing. He just has to deal with it like a big boy.

As an aside, is it any more obvious than today that espn is bleeding money? They've gone so crazy over this incident you would've thought there was a GOP debate in Cameron Indoor.

Tom B.
02-26-2016, 11:39 PM
ESPN: This story with the headline ACC won't ban Duke's Allen for apparent trip is currently the 2nd headline story on their website
SI: This story is not in the top 15 headlines on their home page and is the 9th story listed on their NCAA Basketball page

Kind of glad our next 2 games are on CBS and ACC Network/ESPN3. Hopefully, something more important can dominate the news cycle on ESPN (maybe Ben Simmons will get a hangnail :)) before the UNC game on March 5th.

ESPN's hyperventilating over this incident has indeed been ridiculous. At one point today, there were no fewer than four separate articles at or near the top of ESPN.com's men's college basketball page about Grayson, The Trip, and Grayson's emerging status as "college basketball's new villain." They're so transparently trying to juice the "Duke's next hated white player" angle that they trial-ballooned a few weeks ago that it's laughable.


Not to excuse what Grayson did -- and FWIW, count me in the camp who thinks it was a product of some back-and-forth chippiness rather than a premeditated act of malice -- but I do think it's worth taking a moment to pause and reflect on exactly what's been asked of Grayson this year. I can't recall any time before this season when a limited role player has been asked to make the jump from No. 8 option to The Man in a single year. But Grayson's not only done it -- he's excelled at it. He's been asked to score, defend, distribute, inspire, and lead -- and he's done it all. Need me to go to then hole strong, take contact, and draw fouls? OK. Need me to play 40 minutes a game? You got it. Need me to be the focus of our offense, and of our opponents' defense, every night out? I'm there. This 20-year-old sophomore who averaged seven minutes per game last season has answered every call and made himself, in less than a year, into a first-team all-conference player. It's pretty amazing, when you think about it.

I think some of what we're seeing now is a guy who's finally starting to fray around the edges. I think Grayson takes his new role this year seriously, and he's putting a lot of pressure on himself to do everything and be everything for this team -- scorer, defender, playmaker, leader, protector, whatever. I love that he wants to rise and meet those challenges, but even tough guys (which Grayson is) have limits, and I think Grayson may be starting to bump up against his. If I'm Marshall Plumlee and Amile Jefferson, I'm pulling Grayson aside and saying, "You've been strong for us -- now let us be strong for you. They're gonna come after you now, but don't worry. You stay in your lane and play your game, and if they try to punk you, don't retaliate. Someone needs to get knocked on his butt, you leave that to us. We've got your back, so you just play."

gep
02-26-2016, 11:41 PM
On a lighter side... I'm recalling the story that Grayson's mom mentioned. When Grayson and his friends went out back to play basketball, she and Grayson's dad would set up lawn chairs in the driveway to watch... not to be entertained, but to make sure the kids don't get TOO physical and intense. So when it appears that tempers are heating up, she would stop the game, give the kids ice cream, and have the kids head over to the pool. Maybe mom needs to "get involved" again...:cool:

HK Dukie
02-27-2016, 01:39 AM
I'm definitely in the minority here. I don't see how a trip is any worse than any other hard foul in college basketball. I don't even see it as a technical. Art Heyman would call you all names I can't print here. But even if it is a technical, unless it's the second of the game, or a flagrant, you still get to play the next game.

Why is a trip any worse than any other foul and even if it is a tech why does the ACC give a reprimand for this when there have been dozens if not hundreds of tougher fouls called and non-called in other ACC games this season?

I also disagree with the posters who say that Grayson doesn't get more non-called contact than other primary options on offense. I have watched plenty of non Duke games this and other seasons and Grayson is getting about as raw a deal as you can get. Not quite Daniel Ewing territory, who BTW just got a tech for having his name called out, but we are talking certainly Curtis Staples (UVA) territory (only 2.2 FTA per game, partially for lack of driving but that player was held on nearly every play just like Grayson).

gumbomoop
02-27-2016, 01:40 AM
This post is about my preference for Grayson going forward in the next two days. I don't expect it to happen, nor to be seconded by any poster. I'm prepared to climb out on this limb alone.

I'm mildly concerned about both Grayson's action and his own psyche in the aftermath of the controversy.

First, the action: That Krzyzewski apologized to Hamilton and Rathan-Mayes confirms that K and probably Grayson himself acknowledge that Grayson was at fault, period. It's hardly a crime against humanity, just a spur-of-the-moment act, but it was a very dumb thing to do, and wrong.

Second, the impact on Grayson himself: I understand the reprimand is a form of punishment, and is probably sufficient, haters notwithstanding. But I wonder how Grayson is feeling, what will be his state of mind this weekend. Maybe he's just fine, a little sheepish at doing dumb, but otherwise on an even keel, excited to get back on the court Sunday.

If, however, the publicity and the reprimand have unsettled him, thrown him off substantially if temporarily, what then? Well, if by chance he's temporarily off his mental game, I'd be impressed if he were self-aware enough to ask K to suspend him for Pitt, and equally impressed if K acceded to Grayson's request.

Is 5.5 enough for Sunday? Tough, on paper much tougher than 6.5. Would Grayson's teammates be shocked at what would in effect be a teammate's self-suspension? Maybe. Equally maybe, they'd have his back, play smoothly and confidently, and win. Chase plays 15 minutes, giving the starters enough rest the first 30 minutes. Luke has the ball a whole lot more, which, IMO, is not at all a bad deal for an emergency situation. It's not that Luke is better than Grayson; but Luke with more touches is better, more efficient and dangerous, than Luke with fewer touches.

Conceding that Grayson's misstep was venial not venal, I still see it as a step beyond acceptable hard playing. Since I think Grayson should be really irritated at himself, it's no stretch to think maybe he has been thrown off a little by this incident; so I'd prefer he call a timeout on himself (literally), laugh at His Dumbness, and tell his teammates to save his bacon on Sunday.

The team needs a challenge. K needs a challenge. The season's been too easy up to now......

subzero02
02-27-2016, 02:04 AM
This post is about my preference for Grayson going forward in the next two days. I don't expect it to happen, nor to be seconded by any poster. I'm prepared to climb out on this limb alone.

I'm mildly concerned about both Grayson's action and his own psyche in the aftermath of the controversy.

First, the action: That Krzyzewski apologized to Hamilton and Rathan-Mayes confirms that K and probably Grayson himself acknowledge that Grayson was at fault, period. It's hardly a crime against humanity, just a spur-of-the-moment act, but it was a very dumb thing to do, and wrong.

Second, the impact on Grayson himself: I understand the reprimand is a form of punishment, and is probably sufficient, haters notwithstanding. But I wonder how Grayson is feeling, what will be his state of mind this weekend. Maybe he's just fine, a little sheepish at doing dumb, but otherwise on an even keel, excited to get back on the court Sunday.

If, however, the publicity and the reprimand have unsettled him, thrown him off substantially if temporarily, what then? Well, if by chance he's temporarily off his mental game, I'd be impressed if he were self-aware enough to ask K to suspend him for Pitt, and equally impressed if K acceded to Grayson's request.

Is 5.5 enough for Sunday? Tough, on paper much tougher than 6.5. Would Grayson's teammates be shocked at what would in effect be a teammate's self-suspension? Maybe. Equally maybe, they'd have his back, play smoothly and confidently, and win. Chase plays 15 minutes, giving the starters enough rest the first 30 minutes. Luke has the ball a whole lot more, which, IMO, is not at all a bad deal for an emergency situation. It's not that Luke is better than Grayson; but Luke with more touches is better, more efficient and dangerous, than Luke with fewer touches.

Conceding that Grayson's misstep was venial not venal, I still see it as a step beyond acceptable hard playing. Since I think Grayson should be really irritated at himself, it's no stretch to think maybe he has been thrown off a little by this incident; so I'd prefer he call a timeout on himself (literally), laugh at His Dumbness, and tell his teammates to save his bacon on Sunday.

The team needs a challenge. K needs a challenge. The season's been too easy up to now...

This is one the most ridiculous posts I've read in a while.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-27-2016, 06:11 AM
This post is about my preference for Grayson going forward in the next two days. I don't expect it to happen, nor to be seconded by any poster. I'm prepared to climb out on this limb alone.

I'm mildly concerned about both Grayson's action and his own psyche in the aftermath of the controversy.

First, the action: That Krzyzewski apologized to Hamilton and Rathan-Mayes confirms that K and probably Grayson himself acknowledge that Grayson was at fault, period. It's hardly a crime against humanity, just a spur-of-the-moment act, but it was a very dumb thing to do, and wrong.

Second, the impact on Grayson himself: I understand the reprimand is a form of punishment, and is probably sufficient, haters notwithstanding. But I wonder how Grayson is feeling, what will be his state of mind this weekend. Maybe he's just fine, a little sheepish at doing dumb, but otherwise on an even keel, excited to get back on the court Sunday.

If, however, the publicity and the reprimand have unsettled him, thrown him off substantially if temporarily, what then? Well, if by chance he's temporarily off his mental game, I'd be impressed if he were self-aware enough to ask K to suspend him for Pitt, and equally impressed if K acceded to Grayson's request.

Is 5.5 enough for Sunday? Tough, on paper much tougher than 6.5. Would Grayson's teammates be shocked at what would in effect be a teammate's self-suspension? Maybe. Equally maybe, they'd have his back, play smoothly and confidently, and win. Chase plays 15 minutes, giving the starters enough rest the first 30 minutes. Luke has the ball a whole lot more, which, IMO, is not at all a bad deal for an emergency situation. It's not that Luke is better than Grayson; but Luke with more touches is better, more efficient and dangerous, than Luke with fewer touches.

Conceding that Grayson's misstep was venial not venal, I still see it as a step beyond acceptable hard playing. Since I think Grayson should be really irritated at himself, it's no stretch to think maybe he has been thrown off a little by this incident; so I'd prefer he call a timeout on himself (literally), laugh at His Dumbness, and tell his teammates to save his bacon on Sunday.

The team needs a challenge. K needs a challenge. The season's been too easy up to now...

The Seasons Been too easy up to now????? This has to be sarcasm right? We've lost Amile for most of the season and we have had to deal with a young team all year. This team has been challenged plenty and have had maybe 2 easy games all year long. Every other game they have had to scrap and claw to win or scrap and claw to lose by a few points. What games have you been watching exactly to say that the season has been easy?

Second, I imagine Grayson will use this as fuel for that unbelievable motor of his. Just Like JJ and Christian I think he feeds off the negative energy. Trust me a player like Grayson has lived with that negative energy his whole career. In high school he was booed by his opponents, he was taunted by other players and he probably developed his chippy play there. He lets the hate flow through him and channels it into buckets. I expect nothing but an amazing performance from Grayson on Sunday, and there is no way this will hurt his mind set. There's also no way in hell a player like Grayson would volunteer to not play. He loves the game too much to ask to sit down.

Pghdukie
02-27-2016, 07:16 AM
All Highway #1 in Baltimore would be burning if this incident happened against the Twerps! Not just a few cars as in the pat !

sagegrouse
02-27-2016, 07:42 AM
This post is about my preference for Grayson going forward in the next two days. I don't expect it to happen, nor to be seconded by any poster. I'm prepared to climb out on this limb alone.

I'm mildly concerned about both Grayson's action and his own psyche in the aftermath of the controversy.

...............................

If, however, the publicity and the reprimand have unsettled him, thrown him off substantially if temporarily, what then? Well, if by chance he's temporarily off his mental game, I'd be impressed if he were self-aware enough to ask K to suspend him for Pitt, and equally impressed if K acceded to Grayson's request.

Is 5.5 enough for Sunday? Tough, on paper much tougher than 6.5. Would Grayson's teammates be shocked at what would in effect be a teammate's self-suspension? Maybe. Equally maybe, they'd have his back, play smoothly and confidently, and win. Chase plays 15 minutes, giving the starters enough rest the first 30 minutes. Luke has the ball a whole lot more, which, IMO, is not at all a bad deal for an emergency situation. It's not that Luke is better than Grayson; but Luke with more touches is better, more efficient and dangerous, than Luke with fewer touches.

Conceding that Grayson's misstep was venial not venal, I still see it as a step beyond acceptable hard playing. Since I think Grayson should be really irritated at himself, it's no stretch to think maybe he has been thrown off a little by this incident; so I'd prefer he call a timeout on himself (literally), laugh at His Dumbness, and tell his teammates to save his bacon on Sunday.

The team needs a challenge. K needs a challenge. The season's been too easy up to now...

"Hey, Coach, this Normandy invasion looks dangerous. Would you suspend me for the next couple of days?"

Grayson's offense, drawing a tsk-tsk from the ACC, was an uncalled foul by Grayson on XRM -- away from the ball -- where the ref admonished Xavier for starting something with fewer than ten seconds left in the game. Further penalty is ridiculous, and a confession beyond the actual offense.

I believe we should have all players in the LST going ashore at Pitt -- we don't have any to spare.

left_hook_lacey
02-27-2016, 08:17 AM
In this type of situation I always try to put myself in the shoes of the opposing view. If this were a player of another team, how I would I feel about it?

I would probably be blasting said player and his coach for allowing a "dirty","physical" mentality as many on this board have done in the past in similar situations.

When I take my bias out of the equation, I have to admit, these aren't isolated incidents. There have been many questionable/chippy plays that Grayson has been right in the middle of this year, these are just the most obvious. Chock part of that up to his intensity on the court and nose for the ball, but playing with passion doesn't give you full right-of-way to put other players in danger.

Grayson is too talented to be getting involved with all these nonsense plays, and there seems to be a pattern developing and now the national media has bought in to the conversation. He's too valuable to this team to risk a suspension this late in the season with so much positioning riding on every game.

Indoor66
02-27-2016, 09:07 AM
This is one the most ridiculous posts I've read in a while.

I agree with you. This is much ado about nothing. This is competition. There is action and reaction. Tempers flair. The event is over. Next play.

gumbomoop
02-27-2016, 09:32 AM
"Hey, Coach, this Normandy invasion looks dangerous. Would you suspend me for the next couple of days?"

Grayson's offense, drawing a tsk-tsk from the ACC, was an uncalled foul by Grayson on XRM -- away from the ball -- where the ref admonished Xavier for starting something with fewer than ten seconds left in the game. Further penalty is ridiculous, and a confession beyond the actual offense.

I believe we should have all players in the LST going ashore at Pitt -- we don't have any to spare.

Don't know why I hadn't considered the Pitt-Normandy invasion analogy. It does put things in an entirely different light.

It probably wouldn't work, anyway, Grayson reprising the James Garner role in The Americanization of Emily. But I don't see Grayson as Buck Turgidson, either. Somewhere in between, maybe.

FerryFor50
02-27-2016, 09:34 AM
This post is about my preference for Grayson going forward in the next two days. I don't expect it to happen, nor to be seconded by any poster. I'm prepared to climb out on this limb alone.

I'm mildly concerned about both Grayson's action and his own psyche in the aftermath of the controversy.

First, the action: That Krzyzewski apologized to Hamilton and Rathan-Mayes confirms that K and probably Grayson himself acknowledge that Grayson was at fault, period. It's hardly a crime against humanity, just a spur-of-the-moment act, but it was a very dumb thing to do, and wrong.

Second, the impact on Grayson himself: I understand the reprimand is a form of punishment, and is probably sufficient, haters notwithstanding. But I wonder how Grayson is feeling, what will be his state of mind this weekend. Maybe he's just fine, a little sheepish at doing dumb, but otherwise on an even keel, excited to get back on the court Sunday.

If, however, the publicity and the reprimand have unsettled him, thrown him off substantially if temporarily, what then? Well, if by chance he's temporarily off his mental game, I'd be impressed if he were self-aware enough to ask K to suspend him for Pitt, and equally impressed if K acceded to Grayson's request.

Is 5.5 enough for Sunday? Tough, on paper much tougher than 6.5. Would Grayson's teammates be shocked at what would in effect be a teammate's self-suspension? Maybe. Equally maybe, they'd have his back, play smoothly and confidently, and win. Chase plays 15 minutes, giving the starters enough rest the first 30 minutes. Luke has the ball a whole lot more, which, IMO, is not at all a bad deal for an emergency situation. It's not that Luke is better than Grayson; but Luke with more touches is better, more efficient and dangerous, than Luke with fewer touches.

Conceding that Grayson's misstep was venial not venal, I still see it as a step beyond acceptable hard playing. Since I think Grayson should be really irritated at himself, it's no stretch to think maybe he has been thrown off a little by this incident; so I'd prefer he call a timeout on himself (literally), laugh at His Dumbness, and tell his teammates to save his bacon on Sunday.

The team needs a challenge. K needs a challenge. The season's been too easy up to now...

Rather than respond to this ridiculous missive, I'm going to suspend myself and reflect on what I've done.

This thread has been too easy up to now.

Wander
02-27-2016, 11:10 AM
Jay Bilas the lone voice defending the no-suspension on College Gameday. Remember this next time you hear the Bilas tries too hard to go against Duke stuff.

cato
02-27-2016, 11:12 AM
Rather than respond to this ridiculous missive, I'm going to suspend myself and reflect on what I've done.

This thread has been too easy up to now.

Don't forget to apologize. It will be accepted if a family member apologizes on your behalf.

NashvilleDevil
02-27-2016, 11:21 AM
Jay Bilas the lone voice defending the no-suspension on College Gameday. Remember this next time you hear the Bilas tries too hard to go against Duke stuff.

We have a new Jay that went to Duke to get upset at when he bends over backwards to not be a homer.

Timdawg
02-27-2016, 12:33 PM
So just because we are Duke we have to make an example of someone? That's silly, the only thing Duke has to do is put the best team on the court and win as many games as possible. I imagine Coach K has talked to Grayson and that will be the end of it. Just as He talked to Christian and Bobby when they got out of hand, just as he talked to Justice last year and Dahntey Jones. You want to corral this behavior but at the same time you got to unleash it. Its what makes those players great, that will to win and not take crap from anyone.

As far as Grayson driving to the basket inviting physical play that's also not the point. He also gets held on the perimeter, shoved off his cuts, elbowed on screens. Freedom of motion should mean freedom of motion. The kid is a sophomore in college and before he even became the star of the team he was labelled as the next "hated white Duke player" I'm so sick of that narrative that I am almost rooting for Duke players to start acting like the schools they play against. Getting in the other teams face, screaming after dunks and staring down other players, yelling at the opponents bench etc. All of these things happened just this season from other teams against Duke. But its Duke right so its ok, you have to get physical with them cause they are "soft." But once one of our players gets tough and does anything remotely not choir boy like the media and opposing fans are all over it.

You can't have it both ways, either Duke players are soft and just take the physical abuse and trash talk. Or they aren't and they can react like other players do. Personally I could care less what other fans, or the media or anyone else thinks about Grayson or Duke. I am glad Grayson is the way he is, and I wouldn't want to tame him at all. You gotta take the good with the bad with a player like him and unleash him on the enemy. Make no mistake basketball is war especially this time of year, and I want my elite troops as ruthless and cold hearted as possible.

In closing the rest of the country, the rest of The ACC, The media, and opposing fans can suck it up. Keep calling Duke a "soft" program and advocating physicality against us and then crying when a Duke guy gets chippy. We will keep collecting championships and wins which is all that matters this time of year. The time for moral victories is over, its win at all costs time.

I suppose you thought Justice Winslow trying to break Justin Andersons ankle last year was just physical play as well. He's lucky he did that to a player with class who offered a hand up versus crushing his skull into the court. No worries, but don't be upset when some random player sweeps the legs of Grayson and ends his future for being classless on the court. It's just soft programs trying to win at all costs.

jv001
02-27-2016, 12:39 PM
I suppose you thought Justice Winslow trying to break Justin Andersons ankle last year was just physical play as well. He's lucky he did that to a player with class who offered a hand up versus crushing his skull into the court. No worries, but don't be upset when some random player sweeps the legs of Grayson and ends his future for being classless on the court. It's just soft programs trying to win at all costs.

Now you are a fan of what team? I agree that Justise's play was over the top, but Virginia doesn't get a pass either. They play Karate type D and get away with plenty. Grayson's trip was not called for, but neither was it dirty. I'm sure he wished he had never done it but he must now take the wrath of all stupid media types. It's over, get a life. GoDuke!

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-27-2016, 12:40 PM
I suppose you thought Justice Winslow trying to break Justin Andersons ankle last year was just physical play as well. He's lucky he did that to a player with class who offered a hand up versus crushing his skull into the court. No worries, but don't be upset when some random player sweeps the legs of Grayson and ends his future for being classless on the court. It's just soft programs trying to win at all costs.
Who let the dawgs out (of the IC kennel)?

plimnko
02-27-2016, 12:44 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/16-most-hated-college-basketball-players-of-all-time/ar-BBq5hsf?li=BBnb7Kz

devildeac
02-27-2016, 12:46 PM
I suppose you thought Justice Winslow trying to break Justin Andersons ankle last year was just physical play as well. He's lucky he did that to a player with class who offered a hand up versus crushing his skull into the court. No worries, but don't be upset when some random player sweeps the legs of Grayson and ends his future for being classless on the court. It's just soft programs trying to win at all costs.

Trying to break his ankle?

Crushing his skull?

Ends his future?

Classless?

Soft program?

We don't need this kind of stuff here.

Timdawg
02-27-2016, 12:51 PM
Now you are a fan of what team? I agree that Justise's play was over the top, but Virginia doesn't get a pass either. They play Karate type D and get away with plenty. Grayson's trip was not called for, but neither was it dirty. I'm sure he wished he had never done it but he must now take the wrath of all stupid media types. It's over, get a life. GoDuke!

Stay in denial. That's why GA will never be the player Malcolm Brogdon or Bryce Johnson or even Cat Barber will ever be. I don't see Ingram tripping people and playing dirty and he's a great player. Malcolm has class and a class coach, Ga has no class and a coach that cusses out the refs and acts like a spoiled brat when he doesn't get the calls. If a UNC or UVA player tripped a Duke player, I can only imagine the outrage. Duke fans cry everytime they get touched and act like GA is the only player that gets bodied up when he initiates it 80% of the time by driving and flailing. That's why everyone calls them soft. Than K let's one of his players play dirty to try and refute that point. A real leader would nip it in the bud, but as 3 of the 4 analysts on ESPN said today, K doesn't have it in him. It's okay, the refs have finally caught on. I actually respect Duke, but don't respect the great McDonalds AA players that K allows to play dirty. Coach K breeds it and does nothing to stop it. So enjoy your life in denial.

BandAlum83
02-27-2016, 12:52 PM
I suppose you thought Justice Winslow trying to break Justin Andersons ankle last year was just physical play as well. He's lucky he did that to a player with class who offered a hand up versus crushing his skull into the court. No worries, but don't be upset when some random player sweeps the legs of Grayson and ends his future for being classless on the court. It's just soft programs trying to win at all costs.

Being relatively new to this forum and not fully aware of the nuance in the application of the mighty power of the negative spork, would this be a proper application?

The ridiculousness of this post should be apparent to all, but really? He believes Justice purposefully and willfully attempted to break a player's ankle?

Let's leave the hyperbole for the rapidly devolving political discourse in this country and off these boards.

"Not in Our House"

NashvilleDevil
02-27-2016, 12:55 PM
Stay in denial. That's why GA will never be the player Malcolm Brogdon or Bryce Johnson or even Cat Barber will ever be. I don't see Ingram tripping people and playing dirty and he's a great player. Malcolm has class and a class coach, Ga has no class and a coach that cusses out the refs and acts like a spoiled brat when he doesn't get the calls. If a UNC or UVA player tripped a Duke player, I can only imagine the outrage. Duke fans cry everytime they get touched and act like GA is the only player that gets bodied up when he initiates it 80% of the time by driving and flailing. That's why everyone calls them soft. Than K let's one of his players play dirty to try and refute that point. A real leader would nip it in the bud, but as 3 of the 4 analysts on ESPN said today, K doesn't have it in him. It's okay, the refs have finally caught on. I actually respect Duke, but don't respect the great McDonalds AA players that K allows to play dirty. Coach K breeds it and does nothing to stop it. So enjoy your life in denial.

You're not long for these parts.

slower
02-27-2016, 12:58 PM
You're not long for these parts.

I'm guessing that perhaps Timdawg has heard that before. :p

Timdawg
02-27-2016, 12:59 PM
Trying to break his ankle?

Crushing his skull?

Ends his future?

Classless?

Soft program?

We don't need this kind of stuff here.

But yet no response to the Airforce Duke fan who initiated the comment about win at all costs and soft programs. Obviously you are also in denial about JW's dirty play from last year, but would expect nothing less. Karma takes care of everything. It's all good.

BandAlum83
02-27-2016, 12:59 PM
Being relatively new to this forum and not fully aware of the nuance in the application of the mighty power of the negative spork, would this be a proper application?

The ridiculousness of this post should be apparent to all, but really? He believes Justice purposefully and willfully attempted to break a player's ankle?

Let's leave the hyperbole for the rapidly devolving political discourse in this country and off these boards.

"Not in Our House"

His follow up posting answered my question for me.

moonpie23
02-27-2016, 01:01 PM
ok.....all seriousness aside.......this is funny... (https://www.facebook.com/sportingnews/videos/10154790944883018/)

DukieInKansas
02-27-2016, 01:03 PM
Stay in denial. That's why GA will never be the player Malcolm Brogdon or Bryce Johnson or even Cat Barber will ever be. I don't see Ingram tripping people and playing dirty and he's a great player. Malcolm has class and a class coach, Ga has no class and a coach that cusses out the refs and acts like a spoiled brat when he doesn't get the calls. If a UNC or UVA player tripped a Duke player, I can only imagine the outrage. Duke fans cry everytime they get touched and act like GA is the only player that gets bodied up when he initiates it 80% of the time by driving and flailing. That's why everyone calls them soft. Than K let's one of his players play dirty to try and refute that point. A real leader would nip it in the bud, but as 3 of the 4 analysts on ESPN said today, K doesn't have it in him. It's okay, the refs have finally caught on. I actually respect Duke, but don't respect the great McDonalds AA players that K allows to play dirty. Coach K breeds it and does nothing to stop it. So enjoy your life in denial.

Hmmm - FSU player never seemed to complain to the ref at the time of the trip. GA receives reprimand, deserves said reprimand, no one from the athletic department argues that he shouldn't receive the reprimand, Coach K calls FSU to speak to Coach Hamilton to apologize, Coach Hamilton accepts graciously accepts the apology, both agree to move on.

I'm not sure who is in denial here.

moonpie23
02-27-2016, 01:04 PM
JW's dirty play from last year, but would expect nothing less. Karma takes care of everything. It's all good.

you mean when karma came out and gave the natty trophy to duke ? you mean THAT karma? or the miami heat stealing him at the 10? that karma?

or the hair and GQ modeling career? that karma? or the money he's being paid....oh THAT must be the karma you're talking about...

oldnavy
02-27-2016, 01:15 PM
His follow up posting answered my question for me.

I just have to laugh at the exaggerated outrage of Grayson's trip(s)....

You would think by the coverage and the hysteria that Grayson had elbowed someone in the face as they were lying on their back or something....

Well, it gives the Duke hate crowd something to rally around I guess.... let them enjoy it, it's the next best thing to beating Duke on the court.... which we all know doesn't happen all that often.

DukePA
02-27-2016, 01:24 PM
I just have to laugh at the exaggerated outrage of Grayson's trip(s)...

You would think by the coverage and the hysteria that Grayson had elbowed someone in the face as they were lying on their back or something...

Well, it gives the Duke hate crowd something to rally around I guess... let them enjoy it, it's the next best thing to beating Duke on the court... which we all know doesn't happen all that often.

And of course there was no hysteria when the dude tried to throw punches as a ref pulled him off Grayson. But hey, Grayson used his evil Duke Jedi powers to force that player's elbow into his face and pull his fist back. Oy.

oldnavy
02-27-2016, 01:26 PM
Hmmm - FSU player never seemed to complain to the ref at the time of the trip. GA receives reprimand, deserves said reprimand, no one from the athletic department argues that he shouldn't receive the reprimand, Coach K calls FSU to speak to Coach Hamilton to apologize, Coach Hamilton accepts graciously accepts the apology, both agree to move on.

I'm not sure who is in denial here.

You mean the FSU player that actually initiated the contact by pushing GA in the back with less than 5 seconds in a 15 point losing effort?? That player?

Probably because he knew why he got the "kickback"... You shouldn't be all up in someone who is walking away from you at the end of a game...

True GA has to be better than this, but come on folks, he isn't Jack The Ripper, and if the FSU team had played out the final seconds with a bit of standard decorum this never would have happened.

This will soon be forgotten, just as soon as we play on Sunday and have yet another National Controversy over a) traveling, b) shot clock violation, c) fouling a shooter at the end of a game, yada, yada, yada!

GTHC and everyone else! GO DUKE.

BandAlum83
02-27-2016, 01:27 PM
His follow up posting answered my question for me.

Woo Hoo! My first negative spotlight given. And his was well deserved. I did find out that I couldn't give him two in a row for his second post. I imagine he may be gone already, however, as the gang tackling of the interloper would probably have made Jeremy Cash proud.

oldnavy
02-27-2016, 01:31 PM
Woo Hoo! My first negative spotlight given. And his was well deserved. I did find out that I couldn't give him two in a row for his second post. I imagine he may be gone already, however, as the gang tackling of the interloper would probably have made Jeremy Cash proud.

He or one of his ilk will be back, they are like herpes, or so I've read.... about herpes that is.... :rolleyes:

DukieInKansas
02-27-2016, 01:32 PM
Woo Hoo! My first negative spotlight given. And his was well deserved. I did find out that I couldn't give him two in a row for his second post. I imagine he may be gone already, however, as the gang tackling of the interloper would probably have made Jeremy Cash proud.

Wish I could spork you again for the Jeremy Cash reference. I love that Duke football now gets mentions in the off season.

plimnko
02-27-2016, 02:03 PM
We all need to leave the hyperbole out of the discussion. This was not an assault. It was a stupid action and has been dealt with by the league and, I am sure, by K. IMO it is time to drop the subject. The horse is starting to stink.

how long can you beat a dead horse??

kmspeaks
02-27-2016, 02:09 PM
how long can you beat a dead horse??

ESPN has been whaling away on the Duke gets all the calls thing for about 15 years now. There may not be a limit.

plimnko
02-27-2016, 02:57 PM
ESPN has been whaling away on the Duke gets all the calls thing for about 15 years now. There may not be a limit.


ALMOST as long as the cheat heels have been cheating. now who has been getting away with what?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-27-2016, 03:17 PM
Olden Polynice, Mark Iavaroni, Tom Sheehey would be in the all time ACC top 10 dirty players list. Of course, not many fans know their names cause UVA basketball history is irrelevant.

This thread has officially devolved into name calling. Let's not disparage our Cavalier brothers a few hours before they take on UNC!

Can we please close this thread, at least until the next time Allen offends someone?

devildeac
02-27-2016, 03:28 PM
Wish I could spork you again for the Jeremy Cash reference. I love that Duke football now gets mentions in the off season.

Covered. ;)

kAzE
02-27-2016, 03:36 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14857706

Why are they talking about this in front of everyone? This is getting absurd. They would NEVER be doing this unless it was anyone but us. I'm sorry if that sounds like whining, but it's total bullcrap. I'm sick of it.

-jk
02-27-2016, 03:37 PM
This poll thread has run its course. There are a couple other Grayson threads.

-jk