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BD80
02-18-2016, 04:03 PM
This is a game unc needed to win.

Even if the heels can rebound to win in Cameron, a split against this year's depleted Duke team by a very experienced and relatively talented heel squad is a let down. This was unc's chance to regain some traction in the series.

Next year looks pretty bleak for unc, they lose their 2 best players in Johnson and Paige, don't bring in much, and Duke brings in a great recruiting class.

Duke is the team running NBA schemes and developing players for the NBA. unc is the team where kids go to regress, how many heels have had their draft position WORSEN by staying an extra year with ol' roy? (yes Marcus - I'm talking to you)

Maybe the next Duke coach will have the problems living up to Coach K the way ol' roy is constantly being compared to deano, but right now the trends are really bad for unc compared to Duke. Oh yeah, unc has that NCAA NOA ready to pop.

If unc falls to the level Duke did in the early 70s, will they recover? Will the rivalry still be the best in sports? Would I be willing to sacrifice a few drubbings of unc to preserve the rivalry's lofty status? HELL NO!

oldnavy
02-18-2016, 04:11 PM
Most of the UNC fans I know were REALLY looking forward to sweeping the Devils this year... I mean they REALLY, REALLY wanted to win both.... so a split at this point is a tremendous let down for them.

This game was a back breaker for their collective moral. :D

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-18-2016, 04:20 PM
This is a game unc needed to win.

Even if the heels can rebound to win in Cameron, a split against this year's depleted Duke team by a very experienced and relatively talented heel squad is a let down. This was unc's chance to regain some traction in the series.

Next year looks pretty bleak for unc, they lose their 2 best players in Johnson and Paige, don't bring in much, and Duke brings in a great recruiting class.

Duke is the team running NBA schemes and developing players for the NBA. unc is the team where kids go to regress, how many heels have had their draft position WORSEN by staying an extra year with ol' roy? (yes Marcus - I'm talking to you)

Maybe the next Duke coach will have the problems living up to Coach K the way ol' roy is constantly being compared to deano, but right now the trends are really bad for unc compared to Duke. Oh yeah, unc has that NCAA NOA ready to pop.

If unc falls to the level Duke did in the early 70s, will they recover? Will the rivalry still be the best in sports? Would I be willing to sacrifice a few drubbings of unc to preserve the rivalry's lofty status? HELL NO!

This. I love the rivalry. But I love Duke victories in the rivalry even more.

moonpie23
02-18-2016, 05:20 PM
the rivalry perished in the Wainstein report...

jv001
02-18-2016, 05:33 PM
the rivalry perished in the Wainstein report...

This ^. Even if the cheats do somehow defeat us on March 5th, the rivalry is not going to return until they get their just punishment. They no longer matter to me. GoDuke!

Troublemaker
02-18-2016, 05:36 PM
To the answer the title question, maybe ask 3 more questions:

1. How did you react when Duke won?

2. How did UNC fans react?

3. Putting aside which team you were rooting for (which may be difficult), was it a great college basketball game?

kAzE
02-18-2016, 05:38 PM
We're still down by quite a bit in the all-time series. I'd like to see that number tip over to our side while I'm still kicking (we're still down by 25):)

Bob Green
02-18-2016, 05:39 PM
Is the Best Rivalry in Sports Still the Best?

Yes! Duke vs. Carolina gets my blood flowing like no other game.

NashvilleDevil
02-18-2016, 05:43 PM
Is the Best Rivalry in Sports Still the Best?

Yes! Duke vs. Carolina gets my blood flowing like no other game.

This times a million.

freshmanjs
02-18-2016, 05:45 PM
This times a million.

The fact that Duke-UNC games get Duke fans' blood flowing like no other game doesn't say much about whether it's the best rivalry.

NYBri
02-18-2016, 05:52 PM
We're still down by quite a bit in the all-time series. I'd like to see that number tip over to our side while I'm still kicking (we're still down by 25):)

So hang on for another 10 years. 20 wins in the regular season and 5 in ACC Tourney play will do it.:cool:

Indoor66
02-18-2016, 06:00 PM
This game was a back breaker for their collective moral. :D

There is NOTHING moral with unCheat.

crdaul
02-18-2016, 06:10 PM
We're still down by quite a bit in the all-time series. I'd like to see that number tip over to our side while I'm still kicking (we're still down by 25):)

Once the victories with ineligible players are vacated, the numbers will be much different! :)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-18-2016, 06:25 PM
The fact that Duke-UNC games get Duke fans' blood flowing like no other game doesn't say much about whether it's the best rivalry.

I disagree. The level of emotion/animosity is a huge factor.

brevity
02-18-2016, 06:27 PM
If we limit "rivalry" to the series of men's basketball games, then yeah. Each game is an event, seemingly overhyped by ESPN, but the last few games have really delivered in terms of entertainment value. They manage to be better than expected.

I know the larger rivalry (between two nearby schools, and beyond men's basketball) is tainted, at least chronically and perhaps permanently, but to a neutral viewer busy comparing these games to Ohio State-Michigan football or New York-Boston mercenary baseball, only the stuff on court is relevant.

freshmanjs
02-18-2016, 08:00 PM
I disagree. The level of emotion/animosity is a huge factor.

I have a friend for whom the UCLA / USC gets his blood going like no other game. Is that the best rivalry in sports?

BD80
02-18-2016, 08:42 PM
I have a friend for whom the UCLA / USC gets his blood going like no other game. Is that the best rivalry in sports?

If judged solely on cheerleaders

Doria
02-18-2016, 08:51 PM
The level of emotion/animosity is a huge factor.

I agree with this. Even in years when one team's had a down year, this game is almost always improbably close. I think since 1977, the total point differential is 15... well, 16 now. That's ridiculous!

I live in Los Angeles, and did post-grad work at UCLA, and it's definitely better than UCLA-USC (in BB, and I was here for UCLA's 1995 championship).

freshmanjs
02-18-2016, 08:53 PM
I agree with this. Even in years when one team's had a down year, this game is almost always improbably close. I think since 1977, the total point differential is 15... well, 16 now. That's ridiculous!

I live in Los Angeles, and did post-grad work at UCLA, and it's definitely better than UCLA-USC (in BB, and I was here for UCLA's 1995 championship).

Of course Duke-UNC is a better rivalry than UCLA-USC. But the reason it's better is not because Duke fans on a message board say it is the game that means the most to them. Fans of any team think their rivalry game means the most to them.

Also, the idea that the Duke-UNC game is always close is just false. 5 of the last 11 games were decided by 10+

Forrest
02-18-2016, 09:14 PM
We're still down by quite a bit in the all-time series. I'd like to see that number tip over to our side while I'm still kicking (we're still down by 25):)

You'll need to be kicking for a long while to see that.

If you assume that Duke and UNC meet in the 15-team ACC tournament once every 10 years, and cherry-pick results so you can assume that the 11-3 advantage that Duke has since 2010 continues into the future, then the number tips to our side in 2037.

If you assume that the 30-16 advantage in the last 20 years - a period when UNC had four coaches, two of whom were disasters - continues into the future (you're still cherry-picking), the number tips to our side in 2055.

If you're just incredibly optimistic and assume that Duke will win 60% of its games with UNC going forward, even after K retires and (more worrisome for Duke) Ol' Roy retires, the break-even date becomes 2075.

I'm just glad we won last night.

BD80
02-18-2016, 09:34 PM
You'll need to be kicking for a long while to see that.

If you assume that Duke and UNC meet in the 15-team ACC tournament once every 10 years, and cherry-pick results so you can assume that the 11-3 advantage that Duke has since 2010 continues into the future, then the number tips to our side in 2037.

If you assume that the 30-16 advantage in the last 20 years - a period when UNC had four coaches, two of whom were disasters - continues into the future (you're still cherry-picking), the number tips to our side in 2055.

If you're just incredibly optimistic and assume that Duke will win 60% of its games with UNC going forward, even after K retires and (more worrisome for Duke) Ol' Roy retires, the break-even date becomes 2075.

I'm just glad we won last night.

2 words: NCAA NOA

OK, it's actually a bunch of letters indicating 7 words, but still

jmck214
02-18-2016, 09:41 PM
Definitely the best rivalry in all of sports because of its staying power. Every year since the mid 80's you could count on both teams being good with the exception of a few UNC seasons and one Duke season (even that year generated one of the best moments of the rivalry). All the other great rivalries have come and gone because one or both of the teams fell off and the faces changed. Sox vs Yankees, 49ers vs Cowboys, Lakers vs Celtics, etc. Add in the 8 mile thing and you have the best rivalry in all of sports. Still waiting for the day they meet in a final 4 as that's the only thing missing that other rivalries have. Pretty amazing that it's never happened considering Duke has been in I think 12 final fours in the last 30 years and I think UNC has been in around 10 in that same time frame

sagegrouse
02-18-2016, 10:19 PM
It is the best rivalry in college hoops, in part, because the media says it is and gives enormous coverage to both Duke-UNC basketball games. But more seriously, Duke and UNC are members of the royalty of college hoops, which also includes Kansas and Kentucky, and one or two others at times, such as UCLA, Indiana, UConn, maybe Michigan State. But Duke and UNC are in the same conference and fewer than 10 miles apart. The other top teams don't have anything like the same level of competition with other elite teams.

Is it the best rivalry in all of sports? Well, you can make the argument, but I wouldn't push it. In the US the leading sports, in rough order, are the NFL, MLB, college football, NBA, and then college hoops (well, the NHL has its intense followers).

Duke-UNC in hoops better than NFL rivalries like Green Bay-Chicago, Dallas-Washington or MLB rivalries like Yankees-Red Sox, Dodgers-Giants, Cards-Cubs? Or college football rivalries like Auburn-Bama, Michigan-Ohio State, UCLA-USC, Army-Navy, Oklahoma-Texas, and many other in-state rivalries? I dunno .....

johnb
02-19-2016, 08:54 AM
You'll need to be kicking for a long while to see that.

If you assume that Duke and UNC meet in the 15-team ACC tournament once every 10 years, and cherry-pick results so you can assume that the 11-3 advantage that Duke has since 2010 continues into the future, then the number tips to our side in 2037.

If you assume that the 30-16 advantage in the last 20 years - a period when UNC had four coaches, two of whom were disasters - continues into the future (you're still cherry-picking), the number tips to our side in 2055.

If you're just incredibly optimistic and assume that Duke will win 60% of its games with UNC going forward, even after K retires and (more worrisome for Duke) Ol' Roy retires, the break-even date becomes 2075.

I'm just glad we won last night.

If a dozen of those recent Carolina wins are affected by NCAA sanctions, then the last 20 years could shift to, say, 42-4 from 30-16. 12 games handed to us and taken from them means we could even things up in our next game (though I think their wins would simply be vacated, not given to us).

MChambers
02-19-2016, 09:18 AM
Once the victories with ineligible players are vacated, the numbers will be much different! :)

+1

Sadly, however, this shows how tarnished the rivalry is by UNC's cheating.

CameronBornAndBred
02-19-2016, 09:32 AM
Yes. No long explanation needed.

-jk
02-19-2016, 09:42 AM
If a dozen of those recent Carolina wins are affected by NCAA sanctions, then the last 20 years could shift to, say, 42-4 from 30-16. 12 games handed to us and taken from them means we could even things up in our next game (though I think their wins would simply be vacated, not given to us).

unc may have vacated games, but the teams they beat don't get them as wins.

-jk

kAzE
02-19-2016, 10:03 AM
Best 3 rivalries in college hoops that I've seen:

1a. Duke/UNC
1b. Duke/UK
3. UK/Louisville

I really, really, really wish we played UK more often. UNC is historically our rival, but UK (and maybe Kansas to a smaller degree) is the only other program in the country that is consistently getting the same level of talent as we are. I don't think there's much debate that Duke and UK are without question the top 2 programs in the country. I wish we could play them every year. That rivalry also has significant meaning for me, because I spent 8 years of my childhood in Lexington, KY as a Duke fan. (I didn't have any friends)

Jarhead
02-19-2016, 04:50 PM
unc may have vacated games, but the teams they beat don't get them as wins.

-jk
Wait a minute. What will this do to Coach K's overall wins record?

rasputin
02-19-2016, 04:54 PM
Wait a minute. What will this do to Coach K's overall wins record?

Nothing.

-jk
02-19-2016, 04:58 PM
Vacated games move Duke closer to them in the overall standings, though.

-jk

BLPOG
02-19-2016, 05:04 PM
Also, the idea that the Duke-UNC game is always close is just false. 5 of the last 11 games were decided by 10+

True, but the close aggregated point totals across years of match-ups does suggest a certain amount of long-term parity.

moonpie23
02-19-2016, 05:06 PM
I've been banned on IC for over a year now. :( I have so much to add over there....


i just don't think it's fair....

Indoor66
02-19-2016, 05:16 PM
Vacated games move Duke closer to them in the overall standings, though.

-jk

If they vacate all they should, it will be 2 or 3 HUNDRED wins. They will drop to 10th or below!

-jk
02-19-2016, 05:16 PM
I've been banned on IC for over a year now. :( I have so much to add over there...


i just don't think it's fair...

If you haven't been banned several times, you're not trying...

(And, yes, we've had banned members try again here. We usually find them.)

-jk

moonpie23
02-19-2016, 06:46 PM
i wasn't going to share that information.........i'm not saying i wasn't....i'm just not saying...

Olympic Fan
02-19-2016, 07:01 PM
You'll need to be kicking for a long while to see that.

If you assume that Duke and UNC meet in the 15-team ACC tournament once every 10 years, and cherry-pick results so you can assume that the 11-3 advantage that Duke has since 2010 continues into the future, then the number tips to our side in 2037.

If you assume that the 30-16 advantage in the last 20 years - a period when UNC had four coaches, two of whom were disasters - continues into the future (you're still cherry-picking), the number tips to our side in 2055.

If you're just incredibly optimistic and assume that Duke will win 60% of its games with UNC going forward, even after K retires and (more worrisome for Duke) Ol' Roy retires, the break-even date becomes 2075.

I'm just glad we won last night.

Who is the other disaster?

Matt Doherty, yes ... but are you suggesting that Bill Guthridge -- who coached three years, went to two Final Fours and left Doherty a team that spent much of the season at No. 1 -- was a disaster?

Please ..,. if K's successor takes us to two Final Fours in his first three years, I promise not to complain.

As for the records ... it will be interesting to see what (if anything) UNC vacates. Banners could come down ... victories could be erased. Technically, Duke could take vacated games off its losses, but not add those games to its win total. For sure, it would change the balance of power between the two shots (both have 5 national titles, Duke leads 19-17 in ACC titles, UNC leads by 79 victories on the all-time victory list). That will change whether Duke elects to erase the vacated losses or not.

As for the rivalry, I'd argue that it's still the best in college basketball for sure -- the historical significance (the fact that every Duke UNC game in the last 70 years has featured at least one ranked team) and the fact that the Duke-UNC games are almost always the highest rated ESPN regular season games every year all point to the importance of the rivalry.

To me, the UNC scandal has taken some of the luster off, but nationally, there is no comparison. I agree that the NFL, MLB and College football are bigger sports to the general public, but none of them have a rivalry that can match Duke-UNC basketball for sustained excellence.

weezie
02-19-2016, 10:22 PM
I've been banned on IC for over a year now. :( I have so much to add over there...


i just don't think it's fair...

Just add that to their other losses...

awhom111
02-20-2016, 01:12 AM
I was actually thinking about starting a thread to compare rivalries around the world during the exam break, but never got around to it.

It depends on whether this rivalry should be considered single-sport or multi-sport. Single-sport, I think something like Auburn-Alabama football jumps into the occasion. Multi-sport, it probably is better than Michigan-Ohio State and UCLA-USC and then well ahead of Stanford-Cal and the possibly emerging Texas-Oklahoma. Once compared internationally I think it would be well behind (in no particular order) Panathinaikos-Olympiakos, Galatasaray-Fenerbahce, and Partizan-Red Star. Depending on whether you would consider Real Madrid-Barcelona and River-Boca multisport rivalries, those are probably above us too. If you want underrated college rivalries, Waseda-Keio in Japan and Korea University-Yonsei University in South Korea.

If you look at it from a single-sport perspective, I think the only pro rivalry in the United States that measures up is Giants-Dodgers. I have always gotten the impression that Yankees-Red Sox and Cubs-Cardinals are baseball-only rivalries and not political in nature, but I could be wrong. In North American sports, Maple Leafs-Canadiens is up there too. Then internationally you get to add things like Celtic-Rangers (which is an interesting parallel to the current state of our rivalry) and really crazy ones like Wisla Krakow-Legia Warsaw. There are some other good single-sport and multi-sport rivalries in Africa and the Middle East that I am not too familiar with. Fla-Flu in Brazil is also a pretty big one.