Jahlil on the block?

[wilson]

Supposedly the Sixers are "gauging interest." It would seem to be colossally stupid to trade an elite rookie during his maiden campaign, but I guess there are those who see Jah as one-dimensional and/or don't believe his defense will ever appreciably improve. Plus, the Sixers are pretty good at "colossally stupid." Personally, I'd love to see him get traded, because that franchise is multiple dumpsters on fire inside a volcano.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25486923/report-sixers-gauging-interest-in-jahlil-okafor-trades

Mods, feel free to merge with "Dukies in the NBA" if you see fit.

[Heaven's Guardian]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.

[tux]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.

He was also the first player (I think) to be named both ACC Freshman and Player of the Year. After he got hurt, he struggled some and other guys stepped up, but let's not get too far over our skis here...

[brevity]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.

Well, at least you're rooting for him.

[darthur]

Supposedly the Sixers are "gauging interest." It would seem to be colossally stupid to trade an elite rookie during his maiden campaign, but I guess there are those who see Jah as one-dimensional and/or don't believe his defense will ever appreciably improve. Plus, the Sixers are pretty good at "colossally stupid." Personally, I'd love to see him get traded, because that franchise is multiple dumpsters on fire inside a volcano.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25486923/report-sixers-gauging-interest-in-jahlil-okafor-trades

Mods, feel free to merge with "Dukies in the NBA" if you see fit.

Well presumably the idea would be that you can get a very good return for an elite rookie during his maiden campaign. Not sure if that's completely true given the salary matching rules in trades but it's not crazy to trade good players, and Jah might well benefit from a change of scenery. People have been saying that after Colangelo was hired by the 76ers, they're going to look for shorter term strategies to get back to respectability. Trading *some* of their potential for value now is one way to make it happen.

Some bad news is advanced metrics really don't like Jah's game. In particular, he's second lowest on ESPN's real plus minus among all centers in the NBA: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/9. He didn't do well in plus-minus at Duke either - there were quite a few threads about it. Some good news is Durant had pretty weak plus-minus as a rookie and he turned out okay :D.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.
You say he had no business going that high - who do you suggest should have been drafte above him?

Not sure I can recall such a high pick traded during his first season. Gotta figure the Sixers don't like what they see if they think he is not a piece to build on... but at the same time, if I thought I had found a way out of the Sixers dupster-fire, I'd be excited.

[dukelifer]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.

Yes - all players show who they will be at 20. I also doubt Duke is in the Final Four if not for the play of Okafor throughout the season- so you are right that Duke never would have beaten Wisconsin because the whole team would have been in Durham.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Well, at least you're rooting for him.

I was thinking the same thing. Well said.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Yes - all players show who they will be at 20. I also doubt Duke is in the Final Four if not for the play of Okafor throughout the season- so you are right that Duke never would have beaten Wisconsin because the whole team would have been in Durham.
Exactly.

Two years removed from high school and exactly half way through his first NBA season and it's clear he will never amount to anything special. He's over-rated. He only looked good because of Tyus. His raw skills are just an illusion. Uh-huh.

[johnb]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.

I think it'd be easier to argue that Tyus got picked too high or would have been better off with another year of Duke--he may not actually get professional traction. Jah is going to be a starter for the next decade and will probably make the all star team a few times. That's pretty good. Really, really elite players tend to stick around the league for a long time, and there just aren't too many Tim Duncans in any particular draft.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Look, I'm rooting for him, but he had no business going that high in the draft. Look at Enes Kanter, who is arguably the best post scorer in the league, and a much better rebounder than Jah. He doesn't even start, because he has slow feet and subpar defensive awareness. Jah would have been a great player in the 80s, but right now I don't see him as more than a good numbers/bad team guy. Even last year, Quinn, Tyus and Justise were all more important than he was to that title, and I doubt we beat Wisconsin if Kaminsky got to torch him for the full game instead of struggling against Amile. You have to be a good defender to play the 5, and he has never shown that ability.

Kanter averaged 4.6 ppg as a rookie. Jah is averaging 17.1. In his 5th year, Kanter is a productive player for a very good team. Not many players drafted below Jah last year project to reach that level. Jah may not be the next Tim Duncan, but he should be a very good NBA player for a long time.

[weezie]

Well, if they do trade Jah, I just hope it's to a team with a good coach. He's smart and needs a teacher.

[Heaven's Guardian]

Yes - all players show who they will be at 20. I also doubt Duke is in the Final Four if not for the play of Okafor throughout the season- so you are right that Duke never would have beaten Wisconsin because the whole team would have been in Durham.

Absolutely, Jah was a key part of winning that title. I'm not saying that he is a bad player or anything like that, but that he's situationally unplayable. There was, as I saw it, a pretty clear top 4 of Towns/Porzingis/Hezonja/Mudiay (that order) because their skillsets translate to modern basketball, and only Mudiay's shooting takes anything off the table. Similarly, guys like Justise, Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner had obvious NBA fits as contributors on pretty much any team. Meanwhile, Jah cannot play against anyone who plays 5 out and really struggles against elite PnR players for athletic reasons that require elite defensive instincts to transcend.

He deserves lots of credit for improving his free throws, and for everything he did for us offensively, but the unfortunate truth is that people put expectations on him that he can't deliver in the modern NBA game. If everyone accepts that he's a situational scorer who can carry an offense against teams that can't exploit his weaknesses (Michigan State games), then he'll get the credit he deserves. But was drafted early to be a star, and I can't think of any center without those defensive skills who's carried an elite team in the modern NBA. I hope I'm wrong about this, and I'm grateful for everything he did for us, but we're putting expectations on him that no one has been able to handle since late-career Kareem at best.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Kanter averaged 4.6 ppg as a rookie. Jah is averaging 17.1. In his 5th year, Kanter is a productive player for a very good team. Not many players drafted below Jah last year project to reach that level. Jah may not be the next Tim Duncan, but he should be a very good NBA player for a long time.

Agreed. Jah's abilities are built on the foundation of skills rather than athleticism. Very similar to Duncan.....

[BD80]

Well, if they do trade Jah, I just hope it's to a team with a good coach. He's smart and needs a teacher.

He's got Elton at Philly

[NashvilleDevil]

Absolutely, Jah was a key part of winning that title. I'm not saying that he is a bad player or anything like that, but that he's situationally unplayable. There was, as I saw it, a pretty clear top 4 of Towns/Porzingis/Hezonja/Mudiay (that order) because their skillsets translate to modern basketball, and only Mudiay's shooting takes anything off the table. Similarly, guys like Justise, Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner had obvious NBA fits as contributors on pretty much any team. Meanwhile, Jah cannot play against anyone who plays 5 out and really struggles against elite PnR players for athletic reasons that require elite defensive instincts to transcend.

He deserves lots of credit for improving his free throws, and for everything he did for us offensively, but the unfortunate truth is that people put expectations on him that he can't deliver in the modern NBA game. If everyone accepts that he's a situational scorer who can carry an offense against teams that can't exploit his weaknesses (Michigan State games), then he'll get the credit he deserves. But was drafted early to be a star, and I can't think of any center without those defensive skills who's carried an elite team in the modern NBA. I hope I'm wrong about this, and I'm grateful for everything he did for us, but we're putting expectations on him that no one has been able to handle since late-career Kareem at best.

So you are willing to bet on Hezonja and Mudiay figuring it out and not Okafor? Okafor is going to be a productive player for a long time in the NBA. Hezonja could end up being the next Jan Vessely which would mean the Magic wasted a pick. Mudiay could be another Tyreke Evans or he blossoms into a pre-injury Derrick Rose, if it's the former he will be 6th/7th man for his career and if it's the latter than we are going to witness something special.

[duke74]

Kanter averaged 4.6 ppg as a rookie. Jah is averaging 17.1. In his 5th year, Kanter is a productive player for a very good team. Not many players drafted below Jah last year project to reach that level. Jah may not be the next Tim Duncan, but he should be a very good NBA player for a long time.

And we Knicks fans are thrilled to have KP6. Wanted Jah, but Kris turning out to be a fine (and unexpected) "consolation prize." We'll build the team around him once we jettison CarMElo (although he has become less of a ballhog this year - perhaps realizing that KP6 has become the face of the franchise).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Absolutely, Jah was a key part of winning that title. I'm not saying that he is a bad player or anything like that, but that he's situationally unplayable. There was, as I saw it, a pretty clear top 4 of Towns/Porzingis/Hezonja/Mudiay (that order) because their skillsets translate to modern basketball, and only Mudiay's shooting takes anything off the table. Similarly, guys like Justise, Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner had obvious NBA fits as contributors on pretty much any team. Meanwhile, Jah cannot play against anyone who plays 5 out and really struggles against elite PnR players for athletic reasons that require elite defensive instincts to transcend.

He deserves lots of credit for improving his free throws, and for everything he did for us offensively, but the unfortunate truth is that people put expectations on him that he can't deliver in the modern NBA game. If everyone accepts that he's a situational scorer who can carry an offense against teams that can't exploit his weaknesses (Michigan State games), then he'll get the credit he deserves. But was drafted early to be a star, and I can't think of any center without those defensive skills who's carried an elite team in the modern NBA. I hope I'm wrong about this, and I'm grateful for everything he did for us, but we're putting expectations on him that no one has been able to handle since late-career Kareem at best.

Did you post on this board about Porzingas pre-draft to taut his top four status? I feel like I would have remembered that...

Hindsight 20/20 and all that jazz.

[brevity]

Did you post on this board about Porzingas pre-draft to taut his top four status? I feel like I would have remembered that...

Hindsight 20/20 and all that jazz.

Heaven's Guardian only joined DBR last November. So I'm guessing no.

[FerryFor50]

Absolutely, Jah was a key part of winning that title. I'm not saying that he is a bad player or anything like that, but that he's situationally unplayable. There was, as I saw it, a pretty clear top 4 of Towns/Porzingis/Hezonja/Mudiay (that order) because their skillsets translate to modern basketball, and only Mudiay's shooting takes anything off the table. Similarly, guys like Justise, Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner had obvious NBA fits as contributors on pretty much any team. Meanwhile, Jah cannot play against anyone who plays 5 out and really struggles against elite PnR players for athletic reasons that require elite defensive instincts to transcend.

He deserves lots of credit for improving his free throws, and for everything he did for us offensively, but the unfortunate truth is that people put expectations on him that he can't deliver in the modern NBA game. If everyone accepts that he's a situational scorer who can carry an offense against teams that can't exploit his weaknesses (Michigan State games), then he'll get the credit he deserves. But was drafted early to be a star, and I can't think of any center without those defensive skills who's carried an elite team in the modern NBA. I hope I'm wrong about this, and I'm grateful for everything he did for us, but we're putting expectations on him that no one has been able to handle since late-career Kareem at best.

You obviously don't watch a lot of NBA-Jahlil. If you did, you'd see that his skillset extends past the post. He can run the floor, he can pass and he can hit midrange shots.

His real weak spot is defense, but even that isn't awful.

I don't see anyone putting expectations on him. In fact, many people think Karl Anthony Towns is the best prospect in the draft. He'd be the one with expectations.

You don't average 17 points per game with a PER of 16.8 as a rookie by being mediocre. Andrew Wiggins, who many consider one of the brightest rising stars, has a lower PER.

Here's a list of players at or around Jah's efficiency:

Kelly Olynyk 16.9
Zaza Pachulia 16.9
Bradley Beal 16.8
Gorgui Dieng 16.8
Jahlil Okafor 16.8
Mason Plumlee 16.8
Brandon Bass 16.7
Rudy Gay 16.7
Aaron Gordon 16.7
Giannis Antetokounmpo 16.6
Ramon Sessions 16.6
Jared Sullinger 16.6
Dennis Schroder 16.4
Robin Lopez 16.3
Andrew Wiggins 16.3
Nerlens Noel 16.1
T.J. Warren 16.1

[duke4ever19]

He's got Elton at Philly

Exactly. Elton was brought in to help Jah further evolve as a player and as a human being. I'm pretty sure he was picked up right after the whole drama with fighting in the street stuff.

He's Jah's Kevin Garnett with Towns.

[Edouble]

Trade deadline has passed. Looks like this thread is done. Jah remains a 76er! :D