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FerryFor50
02-16-2016, 12:25 PM
In the This Week in the ACC 2-15/2-21 (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37413-This-Week-in-the-ACC-2-15-2-21) thread, the conversation about who the ACC POY should be was started. I think we need a poll!

Who's your pick for ACC POY?

Grayson Allen - Duke (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3135045/grayson-allen)
Brandon Ingram - Duke (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3913176/brandon-ingram)
Macolm Brogden - UVA (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/56119/malcolm-brogdon)
Cat Barber - NCSU (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66135/anthony-barber)
Michael Gbinije - Syracuse (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/56115/michael-gbinije)
Brice Johnson - UNC (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61653/brice-johnson)
Jarron Blossomgame - Clemson (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61835/jaron-blossomgame)
Malik Beasley - FSU (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3907822/malik-beasley)
Demitrius Jackson - Notre Dame (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66284/demetrius-jackson)
Damion Lee - Louisville (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/56899/damion-lee)
Sheldon McClellan - Miami (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/57404/sheldon-mcclellan)
Devin Thomas - Wake (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61162/devin-thomas)
Eli Carter - BC (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/56707/eli-carter)
Marcus Georges-Hunt - GT (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61606/marcus-georges-hunt)
Michael Young - Pitt (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66290/michael-young)

Write in votes if you have someone else in mind...

luburch
02-16-2016, 12:28 PM
Is there supposed to be an actual poll with this?

My picks:

1. Grayson Allen
2. Malcolm Brogdon
3. Brice Johnson

FerryFor50
02-16-2016, 12:31 PM
Is there supposed to be an actual poll with this?

My picks:

1. Grayson Allen
2. Malcolm Brogdon
3. Brice Johnson

Yeah was making it. The thread posts without the poll while you create it. :)

duke blue brewcrew
02-16-2016, 12:33 PM
Is there supposed to be an actual poll with this?

My picks:

1. Grayson Allen
2. Malcolm Brogdon
3. Brice Johnson

That's a great idea, it would be fun to do this as a poll. That said, I'm having a hard time not being biased. Here's my Top 5:

1. Grayson Allen
2. Malcolm Brogdon
3. Cat Barber
4. Brandon Ingram
5. Brice Johnson

Lar77
02-16-2016, 01:00 PM
I'm holding off on voting right now, but I would say my top 3 are Allen, Barber, and Brogdon. There's too much season left.

JasonEvans
02-16-2016, 01:01 PM
I went with Brogdon. His D has been unreal and he's no slouch on offense either. Easy choice for me even though I love, love, love Grayson. Cat Barber is a bit further back. I have always thought that POY should be someone who can lead his team to wins not just someone who puts up big stats. State is one of the ACC's biggest disappointments this year so no way can I pick Barber.

--Jason "I'm not sure anyone is really all that close to Brogdon and Allen... maybe Blossomgame or Brice Johnson?" Evans

CDu
02-16-2016, 01:28 PM
I went with Brogdon. His D has been unreal and he's no slouch on offense either. Easy choice for me even though I love, love, love Grayson. Cat Barber is a bit further back. I have always thought that POY should be someone who can lead his team to wins not just someone who puts up big stats. State is one of the ACC's biggest disappointments this year so no way can I pick Barber.

--Jason "I'm not sure anyone is really all that close to Brogdon and Allen... maybe Blossomgame or Brice Johnson?" Evans

I think the short list right now is Brogdon, Allen, Barber, and Johnson. I think guys like Blossomgame, McLellan, Jackson, Ingram and Gbinije could sneak into the conversation depending upon how the rest of the season plays out (both individually and for their teams). But those top four would be my list for consideration at the moment.

vick
02-16-2016, 02:20 PM
I think the short list right now is Brogdon, Allen, Barber, and Johnson. I think guys like Blossomgame, McLellan, Jackson, Ingram and Gbinije could sneak into the conversation depending upon how the rest of the season plays out (both individually and for their teams). But those top four would be my list for consideration at the moment.

Yup. If the season ended now, I think those four would be near-locks for first-team, with the fifth slot being either McClellan or Blossomgame (but really those two are notably behind the top four). Second team right now likely the other of McClellan/Blossomgame, Jackson, Ingram, Gbinije and...maybe Georges-Hunt, maybe Bonzie Colson.

CDu
02-16-2016, 02:45 PM
Yup. If the season ended now, I think those four would be near-locks for first-team, with the fifth slot being either McClellan or Blossomgame (but really those two are notably behind the top four). Second team right now likely the other of McClellan/Blossomgame, Jackson, Ingram, Gbinije and...maybe Georges-Hunt, maybe Bonzie Colson.

Ooh, I always enjoy a good All-ACC Team discussion!

Here are my thoughts on that, as of now (and this is going to be fluid based on the next two weeks):

First team (in no order): Barber, Brogdon, Allen, Johnson, Blossomgame
Second team: Ingram, Jackson, McLellan, Gbinije, Thomas (Wake)
Third team: Georges-Hunt, Lee (UL), Young (Pitt), Auguste, LeDay
Honorable mention: Colson, Beasley, Bacon, Jekiri, Berry

ChillinDuke
02-16-2016, 03:03 PM
I think the short list right now is Brogdon, Allen, Barber, and Johnson. I think guys like Blossomgame, McLellan, Jackson, Ingram and Gbinije could sneak into the conversation depending upon how the rest of the season plays out (both individually and for their teams). But those top four would be my list for consideration at the moment.

Agree with your short list - those are actually the 4 players I pulled up when I first saw this thread. For me, this sort of decision always starts with stats and then a few qualitative considerations help to add or detract from the resume (team performance, defense, buzz factor, game-winning performances, etc).

First of all, I used Allen as the benchmark on which to compare Brogdon. Surprisingly (for me), Allen looks clear cut ahead in almost every way. Allen plays slightly more minutes, shoots >2% better in both FG and 3PT % (slightly worse in FT% but close), averages almost 3 more PPG, almost a half rebound better, almost a full assist better, and even slightly better in steals. Slightly worse in turnovers. Now, Brogdon may be a better defender but I don't know that he's so markedly better in this department to overcome the above stats. Further, Grayson and Brogdon are both more or less the poster children for their teams, and Grayson just sunk the game winner to beat Brogdon's team. Both teams are in the top tier of the ACC. I honestly would give a clear edge to Grayson right now - but, even though I'd say the edge is clear, I'd admit it's still close enough that the remaining season can change the status.

On to Barber vs Grayson - Cat has Grayson in minutes, points, and assists. And he's clearly the face of NC State. But Grayson has him in just about every other statistical category. Cat doesn't seem to be praised for his defense. And his team is doing quite poorly. I just don't think Cat's offensive numbers are so demonstrably better that he can edge out a candidate like Grayson, or Brogdon for that matter.

Brice Johnson is an interesting case. He's averaging 16.4 ppg and 10.0 rpg, but has only gotten over 20 points five times, one being his 39 point/23 rebound performance against FSU which frankly put him in the running for this award. If you scale down that one FSU game to his season averages (which are already inflated by that performance) - he drops to 15.5 and 9.5 ppg and rpg, respectively. Those are still really good numbers - but it's worth witnessing the drop-off. I actually think the drop-off is important because it wasn't like that one game was against a top-tier ACC behemoth. It was an excellent performance but certainly an outlier. Comparatively, Grayson has multiple 30-pt games and a bunch more 25+ pt games, so performing some similar drop-off analysis doesn't really seem to make sense. Further, take that one game out of the equation and I'm not sure Brice Johnson really gets as much air time as he has been getting. They'd probably be talking about him but focusing more on Paige's struggles - whereas Paige seemed to get a bit of a pass through most of this year in terms of talking about his senior season coming in below expectations. Brice does average a bit more than a steal, block, and assist per game. But he's mainly a points and rebounds guy.

All that said, I think Allen is the clear-cut, albeit slim leader at the moment. I'd give #2 to Brogdon, fairly clearly. Then Cat and Brice would come in, likely at #3 and #4, respectively but for very different reasons. I'd say the race is close enough that #1/#2 and #3/#4 can flip-flop fairly easily. But I think moving from the first two to the second two or vice versa would be comparatively harder.

Plenty of time, but those are my current thoughts.

- Chillin

FerryFor50
02-16-2016, 03:10 PM
I went with Allen over Brogden, but it was a toss up. The next week or two will do a lot in separating them.

As for Barber, he'd have to be having a season like Erick Green did to be in the running IMO. And he's not.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/erick-green-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/anthony-cat-barber-1.html

gurufrisbee
02-16-2016, 03:14 PM
Right now I'd say

1) B. Johnson

<pause for extreme vomit>

2) Gbinije

3) Brogdon

killerleft
02-16-2016, 03:15 PM
Just too early for my vote. Brogden is right there, so are Grayson, Johnson, and Cat. Looking for another Dukie to make it even tougher.

dukebluesincebirth
02-16-2016, 03:24 PM
I agree that it's too early, I guess that's why everyone is naming 3-5 players. If I had to pick ONE player of the year in the ACC right now: Cat Barber. He's extremely difficult to defend, doesn't have much help, and is highly respected by ACC opponents.

luburch
02-16-2016, 03:25 PM
Not to nitpick anyone, because several people have done it, but it's Brogdon not Brogden. :)

CDu
02-16-2016, 03:29 PM
Agree with your short list - those are actually the 4 players I pulled up when I first saw this thread. For me, this sort of decision always starts with stats and then a few qualitative considerations help to add or detract from the resume (team performance, defense, buzz factor, game-winning performances, etc).

First of all, I used Allen as the benchmark on which to compare Brogdon. Surprisingly (for me), Allen looks clear cut ahead in almost every way. Allen plays slightly more minutes, shoots >2% better in both FG and 3PT % (slightly worse in FT% but close), averages almost 3 more PPG, almost a half rebound better, almost a full assist better, and even slightly better in steals. Slightly worse in turnovers. Now, Brogdon may be a better defender but I don't know that he's so markedly better in this department to overcome the above stats. Further, Grayson and Brogdon are both more or less the poster children for their teams, and Grayson just sunk the game winner to beat Brogdon's team. Both teams are in the top tier of the ACC. I honestly would give a clear edge to Grayson right now - but, even though I'd say the edge is clear, I'd admit it's still close enough that the remaining season can change the status.
- Chillin

i think you are definitely underestimating the difference in defense. I think you are also penalizing Brogdon offensively for UVa's pace by comparing count stats. I might argue that they are actually closer offensively than they are defensively.

FerryFor50
02-16-2016, 04:50 PM
Not to nitpick anyone, because several people have done it, but it's Brogdon not Brogden. :)

Not to nitpick, but.... nitpick. :p

kAzE
02-16-2016, 04:53 PM
Unless we see another couple of 20-20 games from Johnson, I'd just give it to whoever finishes higher in the ACC standings between Grayson and Brogdon. Both are deserving.

superdave
02-16-2016, 05:06 PM
I had to go look at stats before voting. Brice Johnson had one big game and lots of hype, but is 11th in scoring. The stats do not live up to the hype.

I voted for Allen because Duke's record is better than State's and because he is averaging more assists than Cat and because Duke won head to head twice. I could be talked to adding Brogdon to that group, but need to see more.

Allen for now.

kmspeaks
02-16-2016, 05:57 PM
i think you are definitely underestimating the difference in defense. I think you are also penalizing Brogdon offensively for UVa's pace by comparing count stats. I might argue that they are actually closer offensively than they are defensively.

The eye test might say Brogdon is a much better defender while Grayson is a slightly better offensive player. What do the stats say? Pts/Reb/Ast/Stl are all per 100 possessions.




Pts
Reb
Ast
Stl
TS%
PER
Ortg
Drtg


Brogdon
34.8
8.3
5.7
1.6
.592
24.7
113.8
93.1


Allen
34.0
7.8
6.1
1.7
.651
26.8
131.2
104.5

vick
02-16-2016, 06:06 PM
The eye test might say Brogdon is a much better defender while Grayson is a slightly better offensive player. What do the stats say? Pts/Reb/Ast/Stl are all per 100 possessions.




Pts
Reb
Ast
Stl
TS%
PER
Ortg
Drtg


Brogdon
34.8
8.3
5.7
1.6
.592
24.7
113.8
93.1


Allen
34.0
7.8
6.1
1.7
.651
26.8
131.2
104.5



I think that's over the entire season, though, whereas the ACC POY is mostly awarded based on in-conference play (I feel like someone here--maybe Olympic Fan--has shown that voters aren't obligated to vote on the basis of conference play alone, although in practice they clearly give it much more weight). The Grayson case is indeed stronger if you consider November/December (it's certainly viable regardless).

Ian
02-16-2016, 06:15 PM
Judging by Win Shares at:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/2016-leaders.html

Grayson leads the ACC in win shares by a pretty large amount:

1. Grayson Allen Duke 5.3
2. Malcolm Brogdon Virginia 4.8
3. Anthony Barber North Carolina St. 4.8
4. Damion Lee Louisville 4.7
5. Brice Johnson North Carolina 4.6
6. Jaron Blossomgame Clemson 4.5
7. Michael Gbinije Syracuse 4.5
8. Sheldon McClellan Miami (FL) 4.4
9. Anthony Gill Virginia 4.0
10. Brandon Ingram Duke 4.0

Grayson has a larger lead over Brogdon than Brogdon has over #8 McCellan.
So I vote for Grayson.

kmspeaks
02-16-2016, 06:16 PM
I think that's over the entire season, though, whereas the ACC POY is mostly awarded based on in-conference play (I feel like someone here--maybe Olympic Fan--has shown that voters aren't obligated to vote on the basis of conference play alone, although in practice they clearly give it much more weight). The Grayson case is indeed stronger if you consider November/December (it's certainly viable regardless).

Good point. Here are the same numbers, conference games only. I think a good case can be made for both guys, I voted for Grayson in the poll because I'm a Duke fan and I'm biased. I'm not necessarily trying to argue it should be Grayson over Brogdon, just wanted to see what the numbers said and let those with far more understanding of what some of these mean (such as PER, Ortg, Drtg) break it down for us.




Pts
Reb
Ast
Stl
TS%
PER
Ortg
Drtg


Brogdon
37.1
8.0
5.2
1.6
.619
26.1
120.3
101.2


Allen
32.9
7.0
6.5
1.5
.657
25.5
131.9
110.9

elvis14
02-16-2016, 06:28 PM
Good point. Here are the same numbers, conference games only. I think a good case can be made for both guys, I voted for Grayson in the poll because I'm a Duke fan and I'm biased. I'm not necessarily trying to argue it should be Grayson over Brogdon, just wanted to see what the numbers said and let those with far more understanding of what some of these mean (such as PER, Ortg, Drtg) break it down for us.




Pts
Reb
Ast
Stl
TS%
PER
Ortg
Drtg


Brogdon
37.1
8.0
5.2
1.6
.619
26.1
120.3
101.2


Allen
32.9
7.0
6.5
1.5
.657
25.5
131.9
110.9




Any chance you could define the last 4 stats. I'm pretty sure I can figure out the first 4 :)

sagegrouse
02-16-2016, 06:43 PM
I voted for Grayson, who is phenomenal. I sincerely hope that he is surpassed by Brandon before the end of the season.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

GO DUKE!

kmspeaks
02-16-2016, 06:47 PM
Any chance you could define the last 4 stats. I'm pretty sure I can figure out the first 4 :)

From the Sports Reference site (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/) where I got the numbers:

TS% = True Shooting Percentage; a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws. The formula is PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.475 * FTA)).

PER = Player Efficiency Rating; not sure how that one is calculated. It wasn't listed in the glossary where I got the other 3 definitions from.

Ortg = Offensive Rating; for players it is points produced per 100 posessions, while for schools it is points scored per 100 possessions. The formula for schools is 100 * (PTS / Poss).

Drtg = Defensive Rating; points allowed per 100 posessions. The formula for schools is 100 * (Opp PTS / Poss). *not sure how individual Drtg is calculated*

westwall
02-16-2016, 11:37 PM
Too early for me; much good BB to be played yet.

jipops
02-16-2016, 11:49 PM
I think it's between Brogdon and Johnson as they are the best players on the best two teams. I think Brogdon should take it for being such an outstanding 2-way player. But I suspect Johnson will take it with the usual media bias.

Still a lot of season left too. A huge performance by Brice tomorrow night would certainly give him a lift.

dukejim1
02-17-2016, 12:22 AM
I re-watched our game with Virginia last night and decided that Brogdon is the best in the ACC. His defense is the deciding point in my vote. He gave Grayson a fit early then they switched him onto Brandon and contested everything he tried to do. His maturity and strength give him a physical edge on our two stars.

Olympic Fan
02-17-2016, 01:05 AM
I'm not sure how the defensive metrics cited above are figured, but if your defensive metric shows Allen as a better defender than Brogdon, there is something wrong with your metric.

I love Grayson and think he's better offensively -- it's not so much the 2.5 ppg scoring lead (that's largely a function of Duke's faster pace), but the fact that he's shooting slightly higher percentages from the floor and 3-point line. Brogdon is slightly better from the FT line, but Grayson shoots a lot more FTs (about 50 percent more). Grayson is a better creator/distributor -- more assists and a better assist/turnover ration.

But while I don't think Grayson is a bad defender at all, I don't think he's in Brogdon's class at the defensive end.

That's why I think Brogdon is the frontrunner for POY (understanding that we still have almost a third of the ACC season remaining).

I really don't think Brice Johnson is a factor in the race at this point (good offensively and on the boards, but a defensive zero). Barber is a factor -- some voters will be dazzled by his offensive numbers. It's amazing how often the ACC scoring leader is the ACC POY over the years.

jhmoss1812
02-17-2016, 10:22 AM
It's pretty rare that a player wins ACC POY and ACC DPOY.

So it would not surprise me to see the voters give Brogdon ACC DPOY and give ACC POY to someone else.

FerryFor50
02-17-2016, 10:51 AM
I'm not sure how the defensive metrics cited above are figured, but if your defensive metric shows Allen as a better defender than Brogdon, there is something wrong with your metric.

I love Grayson and think he's better offensively -- it's not so much the 2.5 ppg scoring lead (that's largely a function of Duke's faster pace), but the fact that he's shooting slightly higher percentages from the floor and 3-point line. Brogdon is slightly better from the FT line, but Grayson shoots a lot more FTs (about 50 percent more). Grayson is a better creator/distributor -- more assists and a better assist/turnover ration.

But while I don't think Grayson is a bad defender at all, I don't think he's in Brogdon's class at the defensive end.

That's why I think Brogdon is the frontrunner for POY (understanding that we still have almost a third of the ACC season remaining).

I really don't think Brice Johnson is a factor in the race at this point (good offensively and on the boards, but a defensive zero). Barber is a factor -- some voters will be dazzled by his offensive numbers. It's amazing how often the ACC scoring leader is the ACC POY over the years.

I believe with DRtg, the lower number is the better number.

kAzE
02-17-2016, 10:51 AM
It's pretty rare that a player wins ACC POY and ACC DPOY.

So it would not surprise me to see the voters give Brogdon ACC DPOY and give ACC POY to someone else.

So according to Wikipedia, Shane Battier never won ACC DPOY . . . despite winning national defensive player of the year 3 times (still one of the most ridiculous individual accomplishments ever in college basketball). Did the award not exist back then? If so, what the hell are the criteria for this award? Battier should have at least 1 if I'm to take this award seriously.

vick
02-17-2016, 11:17 AM
I believe with DRtg, the lower number is the better number.

Correct (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html). DRtg is a rough estimate of the number of points an individual player gives up per 100 possessions. I say "rough" because it can only measure stops through defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks and assumes other "stops" are obtained equally by teammates. By DRtg, Brice Johnson is a stellar defender as he's the best defensive rebounder in the league while being top 5 in block percentage and top 10 in steal percentage, for the second or third best defensive team in the league (using league play only). Now those things are valuable, and I wouldn't say he's bad at defense, but obviously Malcolm Brogdon he isn't.

CDu
02-17-2016, 12:29 PM
So according to Wikipedia, Shane Battier never won ACC DPOY . . . despite winning national defensive player of the year 3 times (still one of the most ridiculous individual accomplishments ever in college basketball). Did the award not exist back then? If so, what the hell are the criteria for this award? Battier should have at least 1 if I'm to take this award seriously.

The award did not exist until 2005.

phaedrus
02-17-2016, 12:40 PM
The award did not exist until 2005.

And that's supposed to be a legitimate excuse?

jipops
02-17-2016, 09:49 PM
Looks like Brice is running away with this one after tonight.

pamtar
02-18-2016, 12:37 AM
I voted for cat barber but the stats really support Grayson and Brogdon. Brice Johnson looked great tonight but he's a a post player so it's hard to give him the nod, despite his numbers in the paint. I think by the end of the year it will be Brogdon.

ChillinDuke
02-18-2016, 08:55 AM
...
All that said, I think Allen is the clear-cut, albeit slim leader at the moment. I'd give #2 to Brogdon, fairly clearly. Then Cat and Brice would come in, likely at #3 and #4, respectively but for very different reasons. I'd say the race is close enough that #1/#2 and #3/#4 can flip-flop fairly easily. But I think moving from the first two to the second two or vice versa would be comparatively harder.

Plenty of time, but those are my current thoughts.

- Chillin

Welp, I'd like to revise my above comments in bold. Brice played a crazy game last night and is definitely not "second tier" as I had offered. That said, Allen did himself no disservice by putting up 23 and 7 with 2 steals including the game-winning free throws on the road in the marquee-est of all marquee games.

I'd add Allen's qualitative performance to the "buzz factor" considerations I was talking about above.

Truly a tight race this year - probably three-horse.

- Chillin

weezie
02-18-2016, 09:13 AM
But don't you all think B. Johnson has the most adorable "ggrrrr, I'm a real angry man" face when he scores a basket?
He's just so....so....wacky mad!

NashvilleDevil
02-18-2016, 09:20 AM
And that's supposed to be a legitimate excuse?

It should be called the Shane Battier Defensive Player of the Year Award

JasonEvans
02-18-2016, 12:04 PM
It should be called the Shane Battier Defensive Player of the Year Award

No, it should be called the "I'm not as good as Shane Battier Defensive Player of the Year Award"

G man
02-18-2016, 03:04 PM
Trying to be non-biased I think the best player in the acc is Cat Barber. I really like his game, but boy do I hate that team.

NSDukeFan
02-18-2016, 08:23 PM
So according to Wikipedia, Shane Battier never won ACC DPOY . . . despite winning national defensive player of the year 3 times (still one of the most ridiculous individual accomplishments ever in college basketball). Did the award not exist back then? If so, what the hell are the criteria for this award? Battier should have at least 1 if I'm to take this award seriously.


Correct (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html). DRtg is a rough estimate of the number of points an individual player gives up per 100 possessions. I say "rough" because it can only measure stops through defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks and assumes other "stops" are obtained equally by teammates. By DRtg, Brice Johnson is a stellar defender as he's the best defensive rebounder in the league while being top 5 in block percentage and top 10 in steal percentage, for the second or third best defensive team in the league (using league play only). Now those things are valuable, and I wouldn't say he's bad at defense, but obviously Malcolm Brogdon he isn't.


The award did not exist until 2005.



And that's supposed to be a legitimate excuse?

I have heard some bakeries give awards retroactively.

Indoor66
02-18-2016, 09:30 PM
I have heard some bakeries give awards retroactively.

Over at the Dump they are in negotiations with Bunny Bread for some awards to fill some of the soon to be vacated spaces in the Nose Dome.

vick
02-22-2016, 09:30 PM
Two weeks to go, and I feel like it's a three man race at this point--Brogdon, Allen, Johnson (that's the order I'd have it, but it's tight between Brogdon and Allen in my view). Barber seems out of it--once you adjust for tempo, it's not even obvious he's is Brogdon's equal on offense alone, let alone as a complete player. I'd have it:

POY: Brogdon
1st Team: Brogdon, Allen, Johnson (NC), Barber, Blossomgame
2nd Team: McClellan, Jackson (ND), Georges-Hunt, Ingram, Lee
3rd Team: Colson, Gbinije, Gill, LeDay, Berry

DPOY: Brogdon
All-Defense: Brogdon, Jekiri, Onuaku, Lee, Gbinije (first three seem like near-locks to me)

ROY: Ingram

Dukehky
02-22-2016, 09:53 PM
Erik Greene winning ACC POY over Mason still absolutely bamboozles me. And for that reason, no player should win POY if his team doesn't finish near the top of the league. I'm not even opposed to best player on best team. But Cat Barber cannot be in the discussion for this. I love Cat, but his award is first team All ACC, and that is it.

Olympic Fan
02-22-2016, 10:13 PM
Erik Greene winning ACC POY over Mason still absolutely bamboozles me. And for that reason, no player should win POY if his team doesn't finish near the top of the league. I'm not even opposed to best player on best team. But Cat Barber cannot be in the discussion for this. I love Cat, but his award is first team All ACC, and that is it.

Well, you could argue that Green won it over Miami's Shane Larkin ... at least the coaches gave their POY award to Larkin that season.

Larkin was the best player on the best team (the one that won the regular season, the tournament and was the highest ranked ACC team in the final AP poll)

vick
02-22-2016, 10:45 PM
Erik Greene winning ACC POY over Mason still absolutely bamboozles me. And for that reason, no player should win POY if his team doesn't finish near the top of the league. I'm not even opposed to best player on best team. But Cat Barber cannot be in the discussion for this. I love Cat, but his award is first team All ACC, and that is it.

Even if you ignore team performance altogether, Barber, who I respect a lot, is nowhere near Green, who put up what was probably the best individual offensive year statistically in at least 20 years.

Speaking of stats, you could make a pure by-the-numbers case that Plumlee should be at least considered for third-team. I've been less optimistic on him than a lot of people here (in fact I said I considered it "not at all likely" we would have an all-ACC big once Amile got hurt), but when the facts change, I change my mind. He's on pace for the second-highest ORTG in the past 20 years of ACC play, while playing huge minutes for a center. That's really valuable. I don't really think it will happen, and I'm not even arguing that it should, just that it's in the realm of reasonable.

dukelifer
02-27-2016, 08:38 PM
Hard to see Brogden not winning this now.

CDu
02-27-2016, 08:39 PM
Hard to see Brogden not winning this now.

Yep. That was a statement game. Dude is real good.

sagegrouse
02-27-2016, 08:45 PM
I'll tell you next weekend after regular season is over. It won't be Cat Barber -- at least, not on my ballot. State stinks, and some of the odor has rubbed off on Cat.

gurufrisbee
02-27-2016, 09:50 PM
It had been down to Brice or Brogdon already for me - today really put a gap between them.

Troublemaker
02-28-2016, 12:04 AM
ACC Player of the Year
Malcolm Brogdon

ACC Freshman of the Year
Brandon Ingram

ACC Coach of the Year
Mike Krzyzewski

Defensive Player of the Year
Malcolm Brogdon

Most Improved
Grayson Allen

6th Man
Jaquan Newton

FOY and Most Improved awards are locks for Duke.

If Duke wins out, Coach K will receive his first ACC COY since 2000 (I believe).

We know Grayson will be heavily considered for POY (but Brogdon deserves it), and Duke has fringe contenders in the other categories we don't win. DPOY is a lock for Brogdon, but I could see Matt, Derryck, and Brandon receiving votes for All Defensive Team. Kennard is a fringe contender for 6th man; so is Hicks from UNC.

Tyler Lydon could also be the 6th man. It'd be kind of weird since he plays more minutes than Dajuan Coleman.

Troublemaker
02-28-2016, 12:10 AM
Tyler Lydon could also be the 6th man. It'd be kind of weird since he plays more minutes than Dajuan Coleman.

Same with Devon Bookert coming off the bench for FSU but playing the 4th most minutes.

PackMan97
02-28-2016, 09:36 AM
Trying to be non-biased I think the best player in the acc is Cat Barber. I really like his game, but boy do I hate that team.

ACC Player of the Year is not the same as the best player in the ACC.

That said, you'll have to get in line behind all the State fans hating on their team :/

Eternal Outlaw
03-05-2016, 09:59 PM
Brice Johnson is a good player but at least to me, a POY needs to be able to be able to create for others and/or create his own shot. Brice does neither, he's a clean up guy who could lose 6 PPGs if UNC had good shooters. Nothing wrong with that, just hard for me to ever consider a player worthy of POY who is that dependent of others.

And looking at past ACC POY winners, I'm not seeing any that fit that profile either.

I'd vote Brodgen

jipops
03-06-2016, 01:14 AM
Broaden undoubtedly deserves this award. He's the best two-way player in the conference and it's really not all that close. Only problem for him is he wears a UVA jersey.

But I believe the ACC media is going to give this to Brice. This will largely be because of his two huge games against Duke, which consisted mostly of put backs and very few 10ft jumpers and post isos.

dukelifer
03-06-2016, 08:30 AM
Broaden undoubtedly deserves this award. He's the best two-way player in the conference and it's really not all that close. Only problem for him is he wears a UVA jersey.

But I believe the ACC media is going to give this to Brice. This will largely be because of his two huge games against Duke, which consisted mostly of put backs and very few 10ft jumpers and post isos.

I would be shocked if Brogden did not get it. But crazier things have happened.

vick
03-06-2016, 09:49 AM
Final picks

POY: Brogdon
First team: Brogdon, Allen, Johnson, Blossomgame, Barber
Second team: McClellan, Georges-Hunt, Gbinije, Gill, Ingram
Third team: Auguste, Jackson, LeDay, Berry, Young

DPOY: Brogdon
All-defense: Brogdon, Jekiri, Onuaku, Gbinije, Lee

ROY: Ingram

jipops
03-06-2016, 10:05 AM
I would be shocked if Brogden did not get it. But crazier things have happened.
Broaden. Sheesh, I was up too late.

kmspeaks
03-06-2016, 10:58 AM
Here they are after the final regular season game. These are conference games only and per 100 possessions.



Player
Points
Reb
Ast
Stl
TS%
PER
Ortg
Drtg


Allen
34.9
6.6
5.6
2.3
.624
25.5
124.4
109.1


Brogden
37.8
7.7
4.8
1.8
.629
27.0
123.0
101.6


Johnson
33.5
22.5
3.1
2.7
.605
31.6
119.8
91.7



One interesting thing that stands out in glancing at game logs, and has been pointed out in this thread, is Brice Johnson's inconsistency. His scoring ranged from 3 to 39 points, Brogdon's difference between high and low was 18, Grayson's was 15. He had 3 games where he scored in single digits, the other 2 had 0, and 6 games where he had single digit rebounds. That one is the most baffling to me, in 1/3 of his conference games Brice Johnson failed to grab at least 10 rebounds. Did Roy give Luke Maye some extra minutes those nights or what?

Henderson
03-06-2016, 11:25 AM
I voted for Brice Johnson with the recommendation that his banner be equipped with quick-release hardware. You know, just in case....

But seriously, I like the guy. Gaudy numbers against us. Seems like a good kid. He just has these ADD moments in games. He's also happens to be the most impactful player on the team that won the ACC regular season and the key to their tourney run. So there's that.

weezie
03-06-2016, 01:00 PM
Seemed obvious that B. Johnson was told to cut the basket-hanging-clowning in last night's game. He was tempted once but held it in.

Indoor66
03-06-2016, 01:26 PM
Final picks

POY: Brogdon
First team: Brogdon, Allen, Johnson, Blossomgame, Barber
Second team: McClellan, Georges-Hunt, Gbinije, Gill, Ingram
Third team: Auguste, Jackson, LeDay, Berry, Young

DPOY: Brogdon
All-defense: Brogdon, Jekiri, Onuaku, Gbinije, Lee

ROY: Ingram

I really like your choices and agree with them all. I would add one more: COY - K

NSDukeFan
03-06-2016, 04:07 PM
Final picks

POY: Brogdon
First team: Brogdon, Allen, Johnson, Blossomgame, Barber
Second team: McClellan, Georges-Hunt, Gbinije, Gill, Ingram
Third team: Auguste, Jackson, LeDay, Berry, Young

DPOY: Brogdon
All-defense: Brogdon, Jekiri, Onuaku, Gbinije, Lee

ROY: Ingram

Damion Lee will get in there somewhere, won't he?

vick
03-06-2016, 04:12 PM
Damion Lee will get in there somewhere, won't he?

You posted this 7 minutes after the voting came out, cheater :D.

NSDukeFan
03-06-2016, 10:31 PM
You posted this 7 minutes after the voting came out, cheater :D.

I didn't go to UNC and still don't know the results, but assume Lee is there.