MBB: Duke 88, NC State 80 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[Les Grossman]

clap clap clap clap clap

[DukeFanSince1990]

Go Duke! Go Panthers! Go Notre Dame (tonight anyway)!

Good to have a week with no loses.

[toughbuff1]

Other than about a three minute stretch in the beginning of the second half, I thought we played great! Hope Barber isn't seriously injured.

[subzero02]

Next year, I am scheduling as many things as possible around the schedule for Duke games. I have missed more games this year than the previous 18 years combined. Thank goodness for watchespn....on game tracker, I saw that Luke hit back to back 3's to give us a cushion when the game was in the 50s.

[jasoninchina]

I am just so happy to see Luke shoot well today. The team's fourteen made 3-pointers coupled with the excellent free throw shooting at the end were the difference. ( Plumlee missed three and DT had one of those final five misses). This is a much needed win, guys!!

[WakeDevil]

It was eight on five all the way. This insightful information is provided to you by the denizens of Pack Pride.

[ThrowItAround]

Cat is something else, Derrick played great D on him in the first half. Great win overall, another tough test Monday night. GO DUKE!!

[SCMatt33]

Good to get the win, and respond to their run in the middle of the second. I find it a bit hard to get super excited, though, about needing to shoot 50% from the outside and make 14 total just to beat a team at home who's now 2-9 in league play. Next 4 games will tell us a lot about how we need to set expectations going forward. If we can split or better, I think the tourney should be in the cards barring a total collapse. Win 1 and were probably on the bubble and need to take care of some business down the stretch. Lose all and we'll have to catch fire down the stretch.

[wsb3]

Play of the game? When the ball rolled to Allen in the corner with the clock winding down & he nailed the 3 to put us up by 8 I believe.. Pays to be lucky & good. Not that the shot was lucky..

No matter where this team goes. I really like this team. It is thin..it was a year where we really could not stand a key injury & yet we got one.. We are weak at the PG...but the effort.. I don't think you can fault it at anytime or at least I won't.

I think K has done everything he could to keep us in the hunt. I just hope that with this brutal schedule coming up that Amile is back very soon. My prediction of early Feb. is now gone.

I blame Dickie V for singing Thornton's praises, which was immediately followed by two bonehead turnovers.:) No I am not giving up on him. He plays well for a stretch & then it is like he just checks out mentally & the focus drifts to a place far far away. He will get there. I am not sure it will be this year but I sure hope so.

On another note I hope Cat is okay. I did not like the way he was holding his wrist & no I am not a Doctor & I slept at home last night. The Pack continue to play hard despite the record. I would hate to see their team without him.

About time to walk to the garage & lift weights to wind down.. Cold beer & grilling to follow. Have a great evening Duke fans here on DBR.

[Saratoga2]

Derryck did play excellent defense on Cat in the first half and played relatively mistake free but then in the second half made lazy almost casual plays and let NC State back in. I thought Brandon also got a little casual, but boy is it good to have a man his size handle the ball well near the end of the game but he was good from the line.

Grayson had another great game. Seems like most games for him go that way this year. Also, the contribution from Luke was outstanding. He is so cool in the game and not only was a big scorer today but did many little things like getting a critical rebound near the end of the game. We have 4 good ball handlers at guard plus Brandon and we needed all of them tonight as I believe we wound up with 4 fouls on 3 of our guards.

Our MTM defense in the first half was outstanding. We did go zone to limit penetration as Cat began to find a way through our MTM. Maybe we were just getting tired.

[NashvilleDevil]

Glad that these next two games are in Cameron. Hopefully that will allow the fellas to be rested with the quick turn around.

I thought Duke's response after State took the lead early in the 2nd half was great. Still waiting for that one game where Ingram, Grayson, and Luke are all on. Maybe it happens February 17th.

[Rich]

Caleb Martin 1, Cameron Crazies 0

I don't think I can ever remember an opposing player fouling out and standing the entire rest of the game (~5 mins, I think) to avoid the "Ahh...See Ya" chant. Well done, Caleb. It caused an interesting dilemma for the Crazies -- root for the team or continue the "Ahh" (pointing) part of the chant.

Fortunately, the good guys won.

[grossbus]

Suspect Cat has broken bone in hand. That was a nasty hit from teammate's foot.

[TruBlu]

Caleb Martin 1, Cameron Crazies 0

I don't think I can ever remember an opposing player fouling out and standing the entire rest of the game (~5 mins, I think) to avoid the "Ahh...See Ya" chant. Well done, Caleb. It caused an interesting dilemma for the Crazies -- root for the team or continue the "Ahh" (pointing) part of the chant.

Fortunately, the good guys won.

Did you notice that he did sit down in the final minute? The Crazies then implored him to "Stand Up".

[jipops]

Good to get the win, and respond to their run in the middle of the second. I find it a bit hard to get super excited, though, about needing to shoot 50% from the outside and make 14 total just to beat a team at home who's now 2-9 in league play. Next 4 games will tell us a lot about how we need to set expectations going forward. If we can split or better, I think the tourney should be in the cards barring a total collapse. Win 1 and were probably on the bubble and need to take care of some business down the stretch. Lose all and we'll have to catch fire down the stretch.

I'm with you. It's always good to get a conference win but I'm breathing another sigh of relief after this one. All this lights out shooting just to beat a 2 win conference team at home. However, Cat is not exactly an easy player to defend and State has played many teams close despite all the losses.

I'm hoping we can at least take 1 of the next 4, fingers all crossed. I feel like UVA is our most realistic shot in that set of games. Even if that's the case we're still in decent shape as taking 3 of the last 4 certainly seems realistic, though Pitt could be dicey. That would put us at 10-8 in the conference which should be good enough to get us in.

[weezie]

Suspect Cat has broken bone in hand. That was a nasty hit from teammate's foot.

That's a darned shame for him. I've enjoyed watching him improve every year. Much respect. He's got a big heart.
I asked in chat but no one responded, is he strong enough to make the NBA? Quick, absolutely, but is he more a Euro player?

[wsb3]

Suspect Cat has broken bone in hand. That was a nasty hit from teammate's foot.

I hope not but I have already heard from a State friend who says those close to the team think it is broken. I hope his source is wrong.

[weezie]

Did you notice that he did sit down in the final minute? The Crazies then implored him to "Stand Up".

Now those are the Crazies we all love!

[Rich]

Did you notice that he did sit down in the final minute? The Crazies then implored him to "Stand Up".

That's great...missed that on TV.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Caleb Martin 1, Cameron Crazies 0

I don't think I can ever remember an opposing player fouling out and standing the entire rest of the game (~5 mins, I think) to avoid the "Ahh...See Ya" chant. Well done, Caleb. It caused an interesting dilemma for the Crazies -- root for the team or continue the "Ahh" (pointing) part of the chant.

Fortunately, the good guys won.
Yep, Martin "used" the Crazies and, to a large extent, dominated the atmosphere in "Our House".

I've long advocated chanting "SEEYA" when the player takes his first step over the line. No way he can avoid it.
Congratulations to Martin. He took great satisfaction in having the upper hand and has a memory he can tell his grandchildren about.
Love,Ima

[MCFinARL]

That's a darned shame for him. I've enjoyed watching him improve every year. Much respect. He's got a big heart.


Agree. He is a fine player and fun to watch, and he practically willed NCState back into this game a couple of times. The hand really did not look good; hope it is okay.

[rocketeli]

good win...Duke has to win the winnable games. Why does NC State always seem to be less than the sum of its parts? Thornton did a good job on Barber in the first half. It does seem though, that if he makes a mistake, he gets excited and overcompensates, leading to more mistakes, as we saw in the second half. Experience will keep helping. Hope Cat Barber does not have a serious injury, but it sure looked like he broke something. Allen definitely rolled his ankle in the first half, didn't show any effects, but maybe after the adrenaline wears off...
I think if Duke can go 9-9 and maybe win a game in the ACC tourney they are into the NCAAs. Further "winnables" FSU, Va, Wake Forest, so we are in a decent position right now.

[devildeac]

Caleb Martin 1, Cameron Crazies 0

I don't think I can ever remember an opposing player fouling out and standing the entire rest of the game (~5 mins, I think) to avoid the "Ahh...See Ya" chant. Well done, Caleb. It caused an interesting dilemma for the Crazies -- root for the team or continue the "Ahh" (pointing) part of the chant.

Fortunately, the good guys won.

One time in the distant past I can remember the Crazies chanting "you're not worthy" after several minutes of what Martin did.

[Native]

Yep, Martin "used" the Crazies and, to a large extent, dominated the atmosphere in "Our House".

I've long advocated chanting "SEEYA" when the player takes his first step over the line. No way he can avoid it.
Congratulations to Martin. He took great satisfaction in having the upper hand and has a memory he can tell his grandchildren about.
Love,Ima

The classic maneuver in this case is a "You're Not Worth It" chant after about two minutes of standing. The "SEEYA" as he crosses the sideline would also work.

[Bob Green]

I have a hunch Jeter will continue his progression and he gets a few more minutes. Why not?

Jeter played four minutes - all in the 1st half.

[uh_no]

Yep, Martin "used" the Crazies and, to a large extent, dominated the atmosphere in "Our House".

I've long advocated chanting "SEEYA" when the player takes his first step over the line. No way he can avoid it.
Congratulations to Martin. He took great satisfaction in having the upper hand and has a memory he can tell his grandchildren about.
Love,Ima

I heard it mentioned twice at the game that players are not allowed to continue to stand in the bench area, as martin did, and he should have been assessed a technical.

I red-eyed from SF this morning so am not up for a rule book deep dive ATM...but if anyone knows the bench decorum rule, that would be nice.

[uh_no]

The classic maneuver in this case is a "You're Not Worth It" chant after about two minutes of standing. The "SEEYA" as he crosses the sideline would also work.

i was hoping they'd "seeya" when he left the court at the end of the game. or that another player would foul out. they got close.

[Furniture]

Jeter played four minutes - all in the 1st half.

4 mins, 1 for 1 and only one PF. At least one good defensive play.
Things are definitely looking up ( this is the optimist thread right?).

[Bob Green]

4 mins, 1 for 1 and only one PF. At least one good defensive play.
Things are definitely looking up ( this is the optimist thread right?).

Jeter looked composed out there, that is a start. It would be really helpful for him to continue to develop this season.

[KandG]

I find it a bit hard to get super excited, though, about needing to shoot 50% from the outside and make 14 total just to beat a team at home who's now 2-9 in league play. Next 4 games will tell us a lot about how we need to set expectations going forward. If we can split or better, I think the tourney should be in the cards barring a total collapse. Win 1 and were probably on the bubble and need to take care of some business down the stretch.

Today was indeed a mixed bag in terms of evaluating how good this team can be while Amile is out. The game did fall loosely into the usual patterns that have characterized past close losses vs teams we should beat (early Duke lead, team misses multiple opportunities to extend it, other team throws zones & increased pressure at us to draw close at half, foul trouble makes our defense soft and puts all the pressure on the offense to get things done, etc etc).

On the other hand, there were signs of progress: our man to man had significant bite early, we managed to avoid fouls (outside of ingram) in the first half, and Thornton's aggressiveness helped us attack the zone authoritatively. Things started to come unglued a bit when State extended their pressure to halfcourt, exploiting Thornton's most glaring weakness right now, which is his ability to read traps far from the basket (especially from taller players) and make the right pass quickly instead of trying to dribble right through pressure or make weak passes over it late in the trap.

In the second half, our defense seemed to get a lot weaker when Ingram got his 3rd foul and we shifted to zone (State scored 17 points in less than 4 minutes after that), but I thought a turning point was when Caleb Martin got his 4th foul and State missed a couple of opportunities to tie down 55-52. Kennard went on his incredible shooting run and we were able to extend the lead. From then on, the foul line was our friend -- the only field goal we had in the last ten minutes (!) was that broken play 3 by Grayson.

I still sense that K has a pretty tight leash with Derryck, especially in the second half of close games, which is understandable: in the first 16 games (including our first 3 ACC wins), Derryck averaged 27 minutes. In the 6 games coached by K since (including the excruciating 3 losses in 4 games), he's averaged 20 minutes. Kennard by contrast, averaged 23 minutes in the first 16 games, 32 minutes in the 6 ACC games coached by K since.

The one game coached by Capel, Derryck played 30 minutes and Luke played 15.

As the team evolves and starts to go up against much tougher competition, I wonder if there isn't more of a balance to be struck between Derryck's, Luke's and Matt's minutes. It's tough to discern patterns given the foul trouble we frequently ran into in earlier games and the fact that Derryck and Luke are going to be understandably up and down as freshmen, but I'd like to see Derryck's aggressiveness become more of a second half weapon. As maddening as his turnovers and decisions can be, he really gives the team a different look from Matt at the point of the offense, and his defense (as was the case for much of the 1st half vs Barber) can be a big plus.

Also (and I admit I may be reaching here) maybe a few less minutes for Matt would get him out of his funk. First 16 games, 44% shooting. Last 7 games: 28% shooting.

[weezie]

The classic maneuver in this case is a "You're Not Worth It" chant after about two minutes of standing. The "SEEYA" as he crosses the sideline would also work.

Well, whatevs. You guys looked good and sounded loud in there today. The team needed you and the Crazed Ones showed up.

I'll be there Monday night to help, rest assured.:cool:

[CDu]

Caleb Martin 1, Cameron Crazies 0

I don't think I can ever remember an opposing player fouling out and standing the entire rest of the game (~5 mins, I think) to avoid the "Ahh...See Ya" chant. Well done, Caleb. It caused an interesting dilemma for the Crazies -- root for the team or continue the "Ahh" (pointing) part of the chant.

Fortunately, the good guys won.

Back in my day, when guys did that, we would cheer "you're not worth it!" And return to the game. Sad to see the Crazies waste ~4 minutes of the game on Martin's sorry self.

[Native]

Well, whatevs. You guys looked good and sounded loud in there today. The team needed you and the Crazed Ones showed up.

I'll be there Monday night to help, rest assured.:cool:

Unbeknownst to probably half of this board, I have jumped the broom. Went out on top, so to speak, with my degree last spring.

I will be back in attendance for the Virginia game, though. :D

[Neals384]

Unbeknownst to probably half of this board, I have jumped the broom. Went out on top, so to speak, with my degree last spring.

I will be back in attendance for the Virginia game, though. :D

Congrats to you and the lucky lady!;)

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Congrats to you and the lucky lady!;)

I don't think Native knows the definition of "Jumped the broom." There is no lucky lady. He just means he graduated.
Love, Ima

[ricks68]

Did you notice that he did sit down in the final minute? The Crazies then implored him to "Stand Up".

From our vantage point on the same side as the benches, after his coach motioned him him to sit, he only squatted. The dilemma was to keep up the chant during our free throws or not. It kept dying down during our final free throws, but got loud again after. It actually seemed to help, as it kept the place consistently loud for over 5 minutes until the game ended. In that sense, I think what he did actually backfired.

ricks

[Native]

I don't think Native knows the definition of "Jumped the broom." There is no lucky lady. He just means he graduated.
Love, Ima

Yep. I'm an idiot.

Thanks to my grandmother for always looking out for me.

(We're going to be dining out on this one for months. Great...)

[Papa John]

Yep. I'm an idiot.

Thanks to my grandmother for always looking out for me.

(We're going to be dining out on this one for months. Great...)

Look at the bright side—at least you didn't jump the shark... ;)

[DukeDevil]

The classic maneuver in this case is a "You're Not Worth It" chant after about two minutes of standing. The "SEEYA" as he crosses the sideline would also work.

Didn't they once cheer "You've got hemorrhoids"?

[Olympic Fan]

I'm with you. It's always good to get a conference win but I'm breathing another sigh of relief after this one. All this lights out shooting just to beat a 2 win conference team at home. However, Cat is not exactly an easy player to defend and State has played many teams close despite all the losses.

I'm hoping we can at least take 1 of the next 4, fingers all crossed. I feel like UVA is our most realistic shot in that set of games. Even if that's the case we're still in decent shape as taking 3 of the last 4 certainly seems realistic, though Pitt could be dicey. That would put us at 10-8 in the conference which should be good enough to get us in.

I think you are much too pessimistic.

Yes, the team out there today -- and that has represented Duke for the last six weeks -- will be doing well to finish 10-8 in the ACC (which would be 21-10 overall).

But I doubt this is the Duke team that represents us much long. Jefferson will return soon and he will make a HUGE difference. He obviously adds an inside presence on defense, but also a second rebounder and a great defensive voice. Most importantly, we go from a six-man rotation to a seven-man rotation. That's huge.

I still believe that without Jefferson, Duke is at best a borderline top 25 team -- probably just on the wrong side of that. Will Jefferson, I believe Duke is a top 10 team.

So, I expect more than 10-8 (21-10). I think he comes back in a week or so and Duke finishes strong -- and is a real contender in March.

As for the State win, Duke has nothing to be ashamed of. State has the best player in the ACC and they've played some very good teams tough -- they won at Pitt and blasted Miami in Raleigh.

Great all-around game for Grayson ... Luke was back on target ... Brandon had the same game at Georgia Tech -- he played very well ... he just couldn't make shots (rebounding his own missed FT was the backbreaker for State).

Baby setups for Chase ... he didn't do much, but it was a useful four minutes -- that's more than he has been giving us.

Odd day for Thornton. He gave us a great 15 minutes or so of defense against Barber in the first half, then came out and scored Duke's first five points of the second half.

Then he committed two lazy, mindless turnovers in a row against token pressure to get State back in the game.

He came in late and did okay -- he couldn't stop Barber at that point, but he did hit two very important free throws.

Interesting to me that Duke won two fairly competitive games with State, but there was a 25-minute segment in the middle of those 80 minutes in which Cat Barber -- the best scorer in the ACC -- went scoreless (the last 11 minutes in Raleigh and the first 14 minutes today). Barber scored 45 points in the other 55 minutes.

Visited the Packpride board and saw that the biggest reasons for the Duke win were:

(1) The &%$# refs
(2) Beejay Anya is a useless waste of space (I have NEVER seen a Duke player trashed on this board to that extent)
(3) The #@$% refs
(4) Gottfried is an idiot
(5) the &%$#@ refs

[Doria]

From our vantage point on the same side as the benches, after his coach motioned him him to sit, he only squatted.

Yeah, according to after-game interviews, he mentioned that the refs did tell him to take a seat a couple times, so he'd squat to appease them.

Without referring to a rule book, I think that the rule is that players are to be seated on the sidelines, but it's rarely enforced with any rigidity. I'd think that only in the most egregious cases (probably where there's some risk of injury or interference with the game) would the player/bench be assessed a technical for it, even though they ah, technically could be.

Barber's post-game interview also suggests that, hopefully, he'll be okay. He said the wrist is bumped, but said that it feels okay. Gottfried did say that they'll do X-rays, to be sure.

Good win for us! Nice to see a back-to-back win, for sure!

[sagegrouse]

Hard to believe Luke Kennard is a freshman. Imagine what he'll be like in a year or two. Of course, if you look 35, it's not strange, I suppose, that you play older than 19.

[JNort]

Well seeing we won is great news. I am very sick and having fever hallucinations waking up and falling back asleep. I thought the score was 88 to 80 NC State.

[Neals384]

I don't think Native knows the definition of "Jumped the broom." There is no lucky lady. He just means he graduated.
Love, Ima

Must be a Yankee.:cool:

[KandG]

Jefferson will return soon and he will make a HUGE difference. He obviously adds an inside presence on defense, but also a second rebounder and a great defensive voice. Most importantly, we go from a six-man rotation to a seven-man rotation. That's huge.

I still believe that without Jefferson, Duke is at best a borderline top 25 team -- probably just on the wrong side of that. Will Jefferson, I believe Duke is a top 10 team.

So, I expect more than 10-8 (21-10). I think he comes back in a week or so and Duke finishes strong -- and is a real contender in March.



On the broadcast, the announcers made it sound like it was going to be a lot longer than a week, that Amile is still favoring the foot in practice significantly. I understand they may be some gamesmanship or sandbagging involved in the stories circulating, but do we really know he's going to be back as soon as a week or two? I was under the impression it would be longer than that.

[JBDuke]

That's a darned shame for him. I've enjoyed watching him improve every year. Much respect. He's got a big heart.
I asked in chat but no one responded, is he strong enough to make the NBA? Quick, absolutely, but is he more a Euro player?

Cat reminds me somewhat of Ish Smith, who finished at Wake about 5 years ago, although Cat is a better shooter. Ish has been in the NBA for five years, even though going undrafted. He's currently starting for the Sixers, which is kind of like an NBA team.

I suspect Barber has made enough noise to get drafted - at least in the second round. He'll get a chance to show what he has. I think he might be able to stick in the league if he finds the right situation.

[grad_devil]

Anybody have a link to the post game presser? I thought they usually posted it on GoDuke.com shortly after the games, even for those of us who don't have a Blue Devil Network account.

I've been mistaken once before, so it's possible I'm mistaken again. Even so, thanks to the Duke win/uNC-CH loss, I'll still consider this a good day.

[duke4ever19]

Anybody have a link to the post game presser? I thought they usually posted it on GoDuke.com shortly after the games, even for those of us who don't have a Blue Devil Network account.

I've been mistaken once before, so it's possible I'm mistaken again. Even so, thanks to the Duke win/uNC-CH loss, I'll still consider this a good day.

Here ya go . . .

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?db_oem_id=4200

[dragoneye776]

Did you notice that he did sit down in the final minute? The Crazies then implored him to "Stand Up".

Not that this is an issue to argue about, but he didn't sit down in the final minute. A ref told him to sit down and he squatted over the chair until the ref was satisfied. The crazies continued their chant because we saw that he still didn't sit. The "Stand Up" chant was for the rest of the stadium and if it was after he "sat", then it was just a coincidence.

[superdave]

Jeter looked composed out there, that is a start. It would be really helpful for him to continue to develop this season.

So did Marshall play the entire second half? I am not in the coaching business, but that seems like a bad idea.

[Furniture]

So did Marshall play the entire second half? I am not in the coaching business, but that seems like a bad idea.

I think he did. Jeter didn't come on again after that four minute first half stint….

[sagegrouse]

So did Marshall play the entire second half? I am not in the coaching business, but that seems like a bad idea.

Marshall was out briefly in the last minute or so -- probably to get a better free-throw shooter on the court.

[RepoMan]

Obviously, getting Amile back will be huge. But, assuming he comes back and is able to play his way into shape before the tournament, I don't think he is the key to big time tournament success. I think the key is Kennard. At this point, we know what we are going to get from just about every player -- except Luke. While he always plays hard, his scoring and shooting has been up and down. If we can get consistent play from Luke that approaches his level of play tonight, we will be tough to beat.

Nice to have a win streak going!

[60's Devil]

Noticed a couple of late in the game off the ball fouls on Marshall. Could this have been a " hack a Shaq"?

[azzefkram]

A win is a win so I'm happy. Until Amile gets back, I don't care how ugly we win as long as we win. I thought Chase looked a bit better out there. Derryck had a real nice first half. Cat Barber can't be an easy cover and I thought Derryck did about as well as could be expected. That 20 second stretch in the second half was... facepalm worthy. The first half looked like some of our best M2M.

For you at the rim junkies, the good guys shot 64.3% with 27.5% of our shots coming from there. The bad guys shot 65.5% with 45.3% of their shots coming from there. Their bigs were a rather pedestrian 50% at the rim. I am not sure if it was our D or their bad shot selection but the did take 21 2pt jumpers making only 3 of them.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Any updates on Barber's hand/wrist?

[-jk]

Any updates on Barber's hand/wrist?

I've been looking, too, to no avail. The N&O article linked on the front page suggested his wrist has been bothering him for a while.

-jk

[KandG]

Noticed a couple of late in the game off the ball fouls on Marshall. Could this have been a " hack a Shaq"?

The first foul looked like a semi-intentional hack to get Marshall to the foul line. The second one was also intentional, but just to get Barber out of the game, it looked like.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think you are much too pessimistic.

Yes, the team out there today -- and that has represented Duke for the last six weeks -- will be doing well to finish 10-8 in the ACC (which would be 21-10 overall).

But I doubt this is the Duke team that represents us much long. Jefferson will return soon and he will make a HUGE difference. He obviously adds an inside presence on defense, but also a second rebounder and a great defensive voice. Most importantly, we go from a six-man rotation to a seven-man rotation. That's huge.

I still believe that without Jefferson, Duke is at best a borderline top 25 team -- probably just on the wrong side of that. Will Jefferson, I believe Duke is a top 10 team.

So, I expect more than 10-8 (21-10). I think he comes back in a week or so and Duke finishes strong -- and is a real contender in March.

As for the State win, Duke has nothing to be ashamed of. State has the best player in the ACC and they've played some very good teams tough -- they won at Pitt and blasted Miami in Raleigh.

Great all-around game for Grayson ... Luke was back on target ... Brandon had the same game at Georgia Tech -- he played very well ... he just couldn't make shots (rebounding his own missed FT was the backbreaker for State).

Baby setups for Chase ... he didn't do much, but it was a useful four minutes -- that's more than he has been giving us.

Odd day for Thornton. He gave us a great 15 minutes or so of defense against Barber in the first half, then came out and scored Duke's first five points of the second half.

Then he committed two lazy, mindless turnovers in a row against token pressure to get State back in the game.

He came in late and did okay -- he couldn't stop Barber at that point, but he did hit two very important free throws.

Interesting to me that Duke won two fairly competitive games with State, but there was a 25-minute segment in the middle of those 80 minutes in which Cat Barber -- the best scorer in the ACC -- went scoreless (the last 11 minutes in Raleigh and the first 14 minutes today). Barber scored 45 points in the other 55 minutes.

Visited the Packpride board and saw that the biggest reasons for the Duke win were:

(1) The &%$# refs
(2) Beejay Anya is a useless waste of space (I have NEVER seen a Duke player trashed on this board to that extent)
(3) The #@$% refs
(4) Gottfried is an idiot
(5) the &%$#@ refs

OF - in fairness, refs are often reason 1, 3, and 5 why DBR thinks Duke lost a game. Even if it was the refs, and it usually always isn't, refs are to blame.

But I agree about player bashing - it's uncalled off on any fan forum.

[-jk]

OF - in fairness, refs are often reason 1, 3, and 5 why DBR thinks Duke lost a game. Even if it was the refs, and it usually always isn't, refs are to blame.

But I agree about player bashing - it's uncalled off on any fan forum.

Player bashing is explicitly forbidden here. Constructive criticism only...

-jk

[flyingdutchdevil]

Obviously, getting Amile back will be huge. But, assuming he comes back and is able to play his way into shape before the tournament, I don't think he is the key to big time tournament success. I think the key is Kennard. At this point, we know what we are going to get from just about every player -- except Luke. While he always plays hard, his scoring and shooting has been up and down. If we can get consistent play from Luke that approaches his level of play tonight, we will be tough to beat.

Nice to have a win streak going!

Kennard is not the key to March success, because Kennard cannot be insanely impactful on the defensive end. We are currently the 2nd best offensive team in the country - and would be 1 if Notre Dame didn't have an insane game last night. How much better do you want our offense to get. Again - offense is not and has never been a problem for this team. I don't care if Thornton, MP3, Amile, or Jeter never score again as long as their impact on the defensive end helps out this team defensively (overstatement, yes. But you get my point).

Our key to March is the whole being better than the sum-of-the-parts on D, of which it absolutely isn't right now.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Player bashing is explicitly forbidden here. Constructive criticism only...

-jk

I know. Meant to say "uncalled for". Damn autocorrect

[Saratoga2]

MP3 did his best rebounding but we lost that battle 38 to 29. Louisville is very active on the boards and Marshall is going to need help in avoiding foul trouble. I think we will see more of Chase in the next game. Rebounding will test us if we are to win the next game.

Going forward, the same question arises regarding back court play. How do we proportion PT for our guards in view of the tremendous performance by Luke. Actually Derryck also performed well except for what appeared to be a brain lapse in the second half. I suppose PT will be based on matchups, but Matt has been slumping both on scoring efficiency and rebounding, whereas Luke is a strong scorer and he does well on rebounding and his defense is pretty good.

[superdave]

I've been looking, too, to no avail. The N&O article linked on the front page suggested his wrist has been bothering him for a while.

-jk



http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/51898/barbers-wrist-injury-not-as-bad-as-it-looked/

[-jk]

http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/51898/barbers-wrist-injury-not-as-bad-as-it-looked/

"State’s Mark Gottfried said he would take precautions to make sure his star was “okay and safe.” But according to a team spokesman, it was determined that x-rays would not be necessary."

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad...

-jk

[swood1000]

I heard it mentioned twice at the game that players are not allowed to continue to stand in the bench area, as martin did, and he should have been assessed a technical.

I red-eyed from SF this morning so am not up for a rule book deep dive ATM...but if anyone knows the bench decorum rule, that would be nice.

From the NCAA Men's Basketball Rules (http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4397-2015-2016-and-2016-2017-ncaa-mens-basketball-rules-and-interpretations.aspx):

Section 4. CLASS B TECHNICAL INFRACTIONS

Art. 2. A technical foul shall be assessed to a coach and all bench personnel for the following infractions:

c. Refusing to occupy the team bench to which the team was assigned …


f. All bench personnel shall remain seated on the bench while the ball is live, except as follows:

1. The head coach may stand but must remain completely and clearly in his coaching box. One warning shall be issued to the head coach before any subsequent infraction is penalized.

2. To spontaneously react to an outstanding play, immediately sitting down on the bench afterwards.

3. A team member reporting to the scorer's table.

4. The head coach to point out, at any time, a scoring or timing mistake or to request a timeout to ascertain whether a correctable error needs to be rectified or to request a monitor review for a flagrant 2 contact

technical foul. (See Rules 2-12, 11-2.1.d.4 and 5-11.5.)

5. To seek information from the official scorer or official timer during a timeout or an intermission.

PENALTY

Article 1 and Article 2.a through i. One free throw shall be awarded to any member of the offended team. All infractions count toward ejection but do not count toward the team-foul total or disqualification.

The coach is responsible for the conduct of all bench personnel. When a CLASS B technical foul, as described in Article 2, is assessed against an offender, it shall also be charged to the head coach as a CLASS B technical foul.
...
EJECTION

Article 1 and Article 2. CLASS B technical fouls apply toward ejection when the following have been assessed: a maximum of three CLASS B technical fouls (BBB) or a combination of one CLASS A and two CLASS B technical fouls (ABB).




Edit: looks like they have to give a warning first:
Section 1. Bench Decorum
c. Assistant coaches and bench personnel. All bench personnel, with the exception of the head coach, are required to be seated on the bench while the ball is live except to react spontaneously to an outstanding play and then to immediately return to sitting on the bench. Violations by players, especially assistant coaches, should not be tolerated by officials. When assistant coaches or bench personnel are violating bench decorum rules in a minor way, the official shall inform the head coach and request that he handle the situation. This is an official warning. Any further violation by bench personnel shall result in a technical foul assessed to the offender. Egregious (blatant) conduct violations by assistant coaches or bench personnel need no warning and shall immediately result in a technical foul. A technical foul assessed to bench personnel is also assessed as a CLASS B technical foul to the head coach.

[duke2x]

The classic maneuver in this case is a "You're Not Worth It" chant after about two minutes of standing.
Thanks! I remember a South Carolina State game from the Dark Ages where one player (Rodrick "Moo Moo" Blakeney?) fouled out with 9 minutes to go and we waved at him forever. I tried to resurrect this cheer on Saturday to no avail as middle age has limited my ability to abuse my vocal chords.

It allows the crowd to focus on the game while addressing the excessive number of fouls by the disqualified participant. Nothing prevents you from doing a See Ya when he actually sits down.

[DukieInBrasil]

The Good:
Grayson Allen, looked really good all around, again. Luke Kennard, found his shot. MP3, rebounded like a man. Ingram, rebounding well. Thornton, excellent 1st half.
The Bad:
Ingram, continued his shooting slump.
The Ugly:
Thornton, that stretch in the 2nd half with consecutive horrible, terrible, no good, very bad turnovers. Matt Jones's 2pt shot, continues to be a liability when trying to shoot inside of the 3pt line.

Derryck started the 2nd half with some nice offensive plays, but seemed to get really flummoxed by NCSU's defense there for a bit. Even though he didn't score in the 1st half, i thought he played well, excellent defense and was driving well and forcing the defense to react to him.
I was really disappointed that K didn't follow Capel's lead and give Jeter more court time. He actually played reasonably well in his 4 minutes. No sighting of Vrank after his one and only minute in ACC play. Can't believe K would ruin the kid's chance to redshirt to play him 14 meaningless minutes this year. No sighting of Obi either. Someone mentioned in some other thread that this was always a team an injury away from disaster, but preseason, that was not the view at all, with expected depth in the post. K has however decided to not let Jeter or Obi hardly even sniff the court, even though there is an obvious need for a few minutes of rest per game for MP3. Yada yada, earn playing time, yada yada, K sees them in practice, yada yada, each player runs their own race, players improve in games too.

[jipops]

I think you are much too pessimistic.

Yes, the team out there today -- and that has represented Duke for the last six weeks -- will be doing well to finish 10-8 in the ACC (which would be 21-10 overall).

But I doubt this is the Duke team that represents us much long. Jefferson will return soon and he will make a HUGE difference. He obviously adds an inside presence on defense, but also a second rebounder and a great defensive voice. Most importantly, we go from a six-man rotation to a seven-man rotation. That's huge.

I still believe that without Jefferson, Duke is at best a borderline top 25 team -- probably just on the wrong side of that. Will Jefferson, I believe Duke is a top 10 team.

So, I expect more than 10-8 (21-10). I think he comes back in a week or so and Duke finishes strong -- and is a real contender in March.

As for the State win, Duke has nothing to be ashamed of. State has the best player in the ACC and they've played some very good teams tough -- they won at Pitt and blasted Miami in Raleigh.

Great all-around game for Grayson ... Luke was back on target ... Brandon had the same game at Georgia Tech -- he played very well ... he just couldn't make shots (rebounding his own missed FT was the backbreaker for State).

Baby setups for Chase ... he didn't do much, but it was a useful four minutes -- that's more than he has been giving us.

Odd day for Thornton. He gave us a great 15 minutes or so of defense against Barber in the first half, then came out and scored Duke's first five points of the second half.

Then he committed two lazy, mindless turnovers in a row against token pressure to get State back in the game.

He came in late and did okay -- he couldn't stop Barber at that point, but he did hit two very important free throws.

Interesting to me that Duke won two fairly competitive games with State, but there was a 25-minute segment in the middle of those 80 minutes in which Cat Barber -- the best scorer in the ACC -- went scoreless (the last 11 minutes in Raleigh and the first 14 minutes today). Barber scored 45 points in the other 55 minutes.

Visited the Packpride board and saw that the biggest reasons for the Duke win were:

(1) The &%$# refs
(2) Beejay Anya is a useless waste of space (I have NEVER seen a Duke player trashed on this board to that extent)
(3) The #@$% refs
(4) Gottfried is an idiot
(5) the &%$#@ refs

There is nothing indicating that Amile is going to be back any time soon still. And an awfully big assumption is being made that everything will be hunky dory if/when that happens. I'm of the belief that re-assimilating will take some amount of time, and the season is running out. Without him we we have only beaten the bottom tier conference teams. I'm not saying we can't beat the better conference teams, but this season has not set a good precedent for it.

I'm really hoping we get Amile back for those last 4 games. It doesn't appear to be likely before that. Though I'm mostly guessing.

[Kedsy]

I'm hoping we can at least take 1 of the next 4, fingers all crossed. I feel like UVA is our most realistic shot in that set of games. Even if that's the case we're still in decent shape as taking 3 of the last 4 certainly seems realistic, though Pitt could be dicey. That would put us at 10-8 in the conference which should be good enough to get us in.

Duke is only two games out of first place in the conference standings. If we win our next eight games, we have a strong chance to win the regular season title.

Having said that, I don't really believe we're going to win our next eight games, but personally I expect 6-2, which would put us at 12-6 in the conference and combined with a strong showing in the ACC tournament would make us probably a #3 seed, maybe a #4 (if we go 6-2 and then win the ACCT, we might even have an outside shot at a #2).

Now, I understand that Pomeroy will probably have us as an underdog in 5 of our remaining 8 games, but if we always performed as Pomeroy expected, we'd currently be 9-1 and in first place in the conference. It seems reasonable to hope/expect that at some point we'll "surprise" Pomeroy in a good way to make up for the unexpected losses. As reasonable as expecting us to lose every challenging game, anyway. I'd also note that Amile should be coming back eventually, and that we have the fewest road games remaining of any of the contenders (tied with UVa), which is a big plus.

What, this isn't the optimist thread?

[CDu]

Duke is only two games out of first place in the conference standings. If we win our next eight games, we have a strong chance to win the regular season title.

Having said that, I don't really believe we're going to win our next eight games, but personally I expect 6-2, which would put us at 12-6 in the conference and combined with a strong showing in the ACC tournament would make us probably a #3 seed, maybe a #4 (if we go 6-2 and then win the ACCT, we might even have an outside shot at a #2).

Now, I understand that Pomeroy will probably have us as an underdog in 5 of our remaining 8 games, but if we always performed as Pomeroy expected, we'd currently be 9-1 and in first place in the conference. It seems reasonable to hope/expect that at some point we'll "surprise" Pomeroy in a good way to make up for the unexpected losses. As reasonable as expecting us to lose every challenging game, anyway. I'd also note that Amile should be coming back eventually, and that we have the fewest road games remaining of any of the contenders (tied with UVa), which is a big plus.

What, this isn't the optimist thread?

I would love for your 6-2 outcome to hold. The counterargument is that we are 1-5 against the RPI top-50 (2-5 against KenPom's top-50), and 0-2 with double-digit losses against the caliber of teams we will be facing in 5 of the next 8 games. And our only wins against the "big" boys came with Jefferson on the court. I say "big" because the two best wins we have are VCU and a reeling-at-the-time Indiana.

If Jefferson comes back very soon, I think 6-2 is a reasonable possibility. If not, I think that 6-2 is exremely optimistic. Tonight's game wil be a HUGE test.

[Troublemaker]

Now, I understand that Pomeroy will probably have us as an underdog in 5 of our remaining 8 games,

Interestingly, as of this morning, KenPom has Duke favored in 6 of the remaining 8 games (with @UNC, @Lville being the two games that are projected Ls.)

Now, of those 6 games, Duke is very slight favorites in 4 of them -- making them essentially tossups -- and so for the overall set of 8 games, Kenpom is projecting a W-L record of 4-4, which would get Duke into the tournament with room to spare.

It goes to show the power of homecourt advantage, I guess. For tonight, along the same lines, the Vegas computers have outputted Duke as a 3.5-pt favorite over Louisville (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/). Duke will continue to be favored at home against all remaining opponents, even UVA and UNC. Hopefully we can go on a run of holding serve at home. The NCSU game started a streak of 1.

[tux]

I would love for your 6-2 outcome to hold. The counterargument is that we are 1-5 against the RPI top-50 (2-5 against KenPom's top-50), and 0-2 with double-digit losses against the caliber of teams we will be facing in 5 of the next 8 games. And our only wins against the "big" boys came with Jefferson on the court. I say "big" because the two best wins we have are VCU and a reeling-at-the-time Indiana.

If Jefferson comes back very soon, I think 6-2 is a reasonable possibility. If not, I think that 6-2 is exremely optimistic. Tonight's game wil be a HUGE test.

I agree that 6-2 is optimistic and that tonight is a great test for Duke. A win tonight would be a huge confidence boost ahead of hopefully getting Amile back sometime soon. This team has played their better opponents more or less well, but have shown their youth during critical stretches of those games. The question is whether they can take another step forward or if the older pattern holds...

Luke and Matt need to hit a decent percentage of their open shots
Ingram and Grayson have to continue to attack w/o getting into foul trouble
Thornton needs to protect the ball and not commit silly turnovers against UL's pressure
Plumlee needs to Plumlee

[Kedsy]

Plumlee needs to Plumlee

And at the beginning of the season, who'd have thought we'd be saying that?

[jimsumner]

Jefferson's return helps solve so many problems.

The most obvious is depth. K has done great things with seven-man rotations. Jefferson gives Duke a seven-man rotation.

Jefferson is averaging 10 rebounds per game. Duke beats Notre Dame and Syracuse with an extra defensive rebound or two.

He's a senior on a very young team.

He's a plus defender on a team that sometimes struggles to get stops.

He's a great defensive communicator on a team that doesn't always communicate well on defense.

His return will enable Duke to play Ingram more at the 3, his natural position, which should keep Ingram fresher and help him stay out of foul trouble.

His return will keep Matt Jones away from the 4, which should keep him fresher. Nothing like guarding a man 40 pounds heavier than you to bring on the vapors.

[kAzE]

And at the beginning of the season, who'd have thought we'd be saying that?

Me! But I also thought Luke was going to start and be a beast for the rest of the year after his 30 point explosion. Can't win 'em all.

[CDu]

Jefferson's return helps solve so many problems.

The most obvious is depth. K has done great things with seven-man rotations. Jefferson gives Duke a seven-man rotation.

Jefferson is averaging 10 rebounds per game. Duke beats Notre Dame and Syracuse with an extra defensive rebound or two.

He's a senior on a very young team.

He's a plus defender on a team that sometimes struggles to get stops.

He's a great defensive communicator on a team that doesn't always communicate well on defense.

His return will enable Duke to play Ingram more at the 3, his natural position, which should keep Ingram fresher and help him stay out of foul trouble.

His return will keep Matt Jones away from the 4, which should keep him fresher. Nothing like guarding a man 40 pounds heavier than you to bring on the vapors.

I agree wholeheartedly with all of these statements. With him I think we are a top-5 or top-10 team. With him, I think we are a legitimate title contender. The real question is "when is he returning?"

[Billy Dat]

I agree wholeheartedly with all of these statements. With him I think we are a top-5 or top-10 team. With him, I think we are a legitimate title contender. The real question is "when is he returning?"

Yes, the only real question worth asking. Dickie V sounded pretty pessimistic which is saying something. He said, during the broadcast, that the coaches say when Amile gets on the court, he is very ginger and still has a bunch of pain in the bad foot. He added that the coaches never thought he'd be out this long and they have no idea when he'll be back. So we have that going for us...

And as for ND's #1 ranked offense, I'll take our #2 ranked offense and 136th best defense over their 226th ranked defense every day of the...

Speaking of defense, I am glad that K rode the 2nd half momentum from Tech and started in man. I also think the switch to zone when they were closing the gap in the second half caused just enough hesitation that it worked out for us. Still, defense is basically our entire problem. It's really all we should be talking about on the board as our offensive rating means that everything we wring our hands about on offense - Luke's erratic %, Brandon's sometimes non finishing, Matt's shooting %, Matt running the PG - mean basically nothing. The problem is that what is there to talk about aside from that we tend to get into foul trouble in the man 2 man and we tend to get toasted when we go zone. K's job, at this point, is basically to try and switch defenses in as timely and provocative a manner as he can based on what is happening on the court and, unfortunately, he's been coaching most of his career playing one defense! That's an obvious oversimplification, but his 1,000+ wins have not been built on the back of keeping teams guessing what defense we'll be in.

Anyway....

-I am going to ignore DT's freshmen mistakes and say I sense he's made a leap over the past few games. I loved his pressure on Barber, I loved his drive and kicks and he just feels like he's growing up.
-On a much smaller scale, so much smaller that it is hardly worth mentioning, I see the same in Chase. That post move he scored on was really nice! I get that I am basically giving him an attendance award but his increased play is being interpreted by me as evidence that Amile is no where near close to coming back. I know that's a huge assumption. I hope we keep throwing him out there.
-My new favorite game-by-game experiment is MP3 going one-on-one in the post. Sometimes it's really ugly, but sometimes it's sublime, like Kevin McHale inhabited his body for just a few moments.

So now comes the gauntlet. I agree with everyone who thinks we are a potential title contender with a healthy Amile. Could that weird loose ball that found Grayson for the 3 be a sign that the gods are tilting back our way this season? I don't think we have the Duke colored glasses any more than usual, we have to be one of the best non-ranked teams, if not the best. Still, the Miami loss was humbling, they were a better team who basically treated us the way we've been treating other teams for years - a clinical beat down. And, because we are who we are, we can't expect to catch a team sleeping. But, now we have a spate of resume wins just waiting to be claimed. I have no idea if we are ready, but I feel like we are due for something.

[DukieInBrasil]

And at the beginning of the season, who'd have thought we'd be saying that?

I love the fact that we're saying that now! In some other thread recently, i mentioned that over the most recent 4 game stretch MP3 was averaging a double double, and i think that stretch of games may have extended over an even longer span now. I never thought MP3 would average a 2x double over ANY stretch of games. Dude is ballin' and deserves mad props for grit and determination and patience.
As an aside, it's a real shame that K wasted Vrank's redshirt for 14 meaningless minutes in 5 games, b/c we would have never seen this from MP3 if he hadn't redshirted his Fr. year. Who knows, maybe Vrank figures things out faster than MP3 did.

[Troublemaker]

Could that weird loose ball that found Grayson for the 3 be a sign that the gods are tilting back our way this season?

I recall thinking the same thing in chat. I believe it was a 1 or 2 possession game at that point, and regardless, I definitely remember only leading 75-72 with about 5 minutes left. It was nice to see Duke get a lucky bounce when we had been 0-4 in one-possession games prior.



As an aside, it's a real shame that K wasted Vrank's redshirt for 14 meaningless minutes in 5 games, b/c we would have never seen this from MP3 if he hadn't redshirted his Fr. year. Who knows, maybe Vrank figures things out faster than MP3 did.

Vrank can redshirt next year if he and the coaches so desire. Nothing preventing that.

[CDu]

I recall thinking the same thing in chat. I believe it was a 1 or 2 possession game at that point, and regardless, I definitely remember only leading 75-72 with about 5 minutes left. It was nice to see Duke get a lucky bounce when we had been 0-4 in one-possession games prior.



Vrank can redshirt next year if he and the coaches so desire. Nothing preventing that.

Sure, but it seems like redshirting Vrankovic THIS year would make more sense. When he was clearly not going to play. It almost has to have been a decision made between Vrankovic and the staff. I know nobody likes to bring up the "T" word, but I wonder if that is in play: play as much as he can this year, and save that free year for added flexibility if he decides to go elsewhere. It might also explain the Bruno Fernando recruitment.