Cameron seems "weak" this year

[gillmic]

I am watching the Kansas versus Kentucky game, and for the first time I can ever recall I am jealous of Allen Fieldhouse. They seem loud, they seem coordinated, and I'm even jealous of the color coordinated T-shirts.

I know that Duke is having a down year, but Cameron seems out of sorts. It's not loud, it's not coordinated, and it just feels like something is missing. It also feels like we're down to the same two or three chants.

Is it just me, or does anybody else notice this as well?

[Mike Corey]

I've heard this critique every year since 2001-02, FWIW. I haven't paid close enough attention to the fan behavior this season to speak about this year in particular, so I defer to those that have been attending games in person.

[DukieInKansas]

Regarding Allen Fieldhouse - it holds almost twice as many people as Cameron, so that makes a noise difference.

A family at church shared their youngest thoughts on a Duke game - she wanted to know why they were chanting ugh ugh, ugh. Then they watched a KU game and she said they are doing the same cheer. :-)

[gillmic]

Eh. As I watch the game, I realize more and more that I may have been a bit hyperbolic. Allen Fieldhouse came out of the gates fast but isn't quite as intimidating or impressive as the game wears on...pretty much in line with past impressions. Sorry for the wasted thread.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

I am watching the Kansas versus Kentucky game, and for the first time I can ever recall I am jealous of Allen Fieldhouse. They seem loud, they seem coordinated, and I'm even jealous of the color coordinated T-shirts.

I know that Duke is having a down year, but Cameron seems out of sorts. It's not loud, it's not coordinated, and it just feels like something is missing. It also feels like we're down to the same two or three chants.

Is it just me, or does anybody else notice this as well?

How much of that is that at Cameron they end up miking the crowd - since the announcers are up in the stratosphere?

[devildeac]

Regarding Allen Fieldhouse - it holds almost twice as many people as Cameron, so that makes a noise difference.

A family at church shared their youngest thoughts on a Duke game - she wanted to know why they were chanting ugh ugh, ugh. Then they watched a KU game and she said they are doing the same cheer. :-)

The Nose Dome holds more than twice as many as CIS and we all know about (sometimes piped-in) noise levels over there:rolleyes:.

[uh_no]

How much of that is that at Cameron they end up miking the crowd - since the announcers are up in the stratosphere?

that's exactly it. it's been plenty loud in person

[Olympic Fan]

Allen Fieldhouse does seat 16,000 (compared to Cameron's 9,300) -- not quite twice as many.

I was a bit put off by Bilas' late valedictory to the place ... look, Kansas does have as much history as anybody and Allen Fieldhouse is one of college basketball's great venues ...

But it should be pointed out that Allen Fieldhouse is not that old -- it opened in 1955 (15 years after Cameron). Contrary to what Bilas said, Dean Smith never played there. Phog Allen coached there one year before he retired.

As an ARENA, Allen Fieldhouse is a great homecourt. And it has am impressive history ... but it pales compared to The Palesta or Cameron.

[Rich]

Allen Fieldhouse does seat 16,000 (compared to Cameron's 9,300) -- not quite twice as many.

I was a bit put off by Bilas' late valedictory to the place ... look, Kansas does have as much history as anybody and Allen Fieldhouse is one of college basketball's great venues ...

But it should be pointed out that Allen Fieldhouse is not that old -- it opened in 1955 (15 years after Cameron). Contrary to what Bilas said, Dean Smith never played there. Phog Allen coached there one year before he retired.

As an ARENA, Allen Fieldhouse is a great homecourt. And it has am impressive history ... but it pales compared to The Palesta or Cameron.

I've heard Bilas say multiple times over the years that Allen is the #1 place to play in college basketball considering its tradition and the fans. I've always felt like he didn't want to sound too much like a homer, or maybe he played so many times in Cameron that he was more enamored with Allen since he's only been there as an announcer/spectator. Or maybe, just maybe, he really feels that way. It doesn't diminish Cameron one bit. The man is entitled to his opinion or his charade, whichever it might be. It also doesn't diminish his views of Coach K, Duke, the Duke program or Cameron, all of which he obviously and absolutely loves if you've watched his videos in the off season when he comes back to Duke and talks to the team.

[BD80]

I've heard Bilas say multiple times over the years that Allen is the #1 place to play in college basketball considering its tradition and the fans. I've always felt like he didn't want to sound too much like a homer, or maybe he played so many times in Cameron that he was more enamored with Allen since he's only been there as an announcer/spectator. Or maybe, just maybe, he really feels that way. It doesn't diminish Cameron one bit. The man is entitled to his opinion or his charade, whichever it might be. It also doesn't diminish his views of Coach K, Duke, the Duke program or Cameron, all of which he obviously and absolutely loves if you've watched his videos in the off season when he comes back to Duke and talks to the team.

Back when I was at Duke, Cameron really rocked - literally.

The pep band only had rocks for instruments, the game ball was a rock, we sat on rocks (only at halftime - because we never sat during the game), the score board was a big rock with chiseled hash marks ....

[rtnorthrup]

I've heard this critique every year since 2001-02, FWIW. I haven't paid close enough attention to the fan behavior this season to speak about this year in particular, so I defer to those that have been attending games in person.

Hahahahaha its been going on a lot longer than that. I was there from '90-'94 and remember being directly told on numerous occasions that we were not as loud or creative as the Crazies in the 1980s. It's a right of passage at Duke.

[hallcity]

Eh. As I watch the game, I realize more and more that I may have been a bit hyperbolic. Allen Fieldhouse came out of the gates fast but isn't quite as intimidating or impressive as the game wears on...pretty much in line with past impressions. Sorry for the wasted thread.

I kept hearing the Kansas cheerleaders yelling monotonous chants. That doesn't sound intimidating to me. That sounds more like the Dead Dome.

[Rich]

Hahahahaha its been going on a lot longer than that. I was there from '90-'94 and remember being directly told on numerous occasions that we were not as loud or creative as the Crazies in the 1980s. It's a right of passage at Duke.

I was at Duke from 1984-1988 and don't remember anyone saying that we weren't as loud as our predecessors. I'm sure there are quite a few others on this Board from my vintage that can back that up. I guess we know who set the standard and where the buck stops! :p

Actually, I think it's an internet thing.

[Dukehky]

We weren't good.

Cameron isn't mean anymore, it kind of a bummer. You can be mean and still be funny.

Also, I remember at the UNC game in 2009 i yelled an expletive, not directed at anyone, just yelled it, when Lawson finished an and 1. A girl turned around and told me we don't do that here. It was probably the lamest thing I've ever heard, and my feeling toward the Crazies has never been the same.

[TruBlu]

We weren't good.

Cameron isn't mean anymore, it kind of a bummer. You can be mean and still be funny.

Also, I remember at the UNC game in 2009 i yelled an expletive, not directed at anyone, just yelled it, when Lawson finished an and 1. A girl turned around and told me we don't do that here. It was probably the lamest thing I've ever heard, and my feeling toward the Crazies has never been the same.

A few years ago, a family obtained the season tickets next to mine. Their cute little daughter sat next to me . . . for about 2 games. They moved her to the seats farthest away from me after I yelled a few non polite words about the officials.

The "sailor" in me is hard to suppress at times, but this caused me to voluntarily clean up my vocabulary . . . somewhat.:)

[Stray Gator]

We weren't good.

Cameron isn't mean anymore, it kind of a bummer. You can be mean and still be funny.

Also, I remember at the UNC game in 2009 i yelled an expletive, not directed at anyone, just yelled it, when Lawson finished an and 1. A girl turned around and told me we don't do that here. It was probably the lamest thing I've ever heard, and my feeling toward the Crazies has never been the same.

I believe that Cameron is at its best -- and at those times is the best of any -- when the student section comes up with cheers or chants that are creative and clever. On the other hand, I'm disappointed whenever I hear the Crazies use cheers or chants that include profanity. I'll admit that I use my share of profanity at games, though I try to exercise restraint when within earshot of children or others whom I think might be offended. But profanity is neither creative nor clever. So when I hear it coming from the student section, I feel that it diminishes the special nature of Cameron by undermining the very attribute that earned the Crazies their notoriety. Of course, it may just be a reflection -- or symptom -- of my advancing years.

FWIW, though, I don't perceive any significant decline in the level of enthusiasm being shown by the Crazies this season. The noise levels always seem to increase a bit as we move deeper into the schedule and those who occupy the risers become more seasoned.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I've heard Bilas say multiple times over the years that Allen is the #1 place to play in college basketball considering its tradition and the fans. I've always felt like he didn't want to sound too much like a homer, or maybe he played so many times in Cameron that he was more enamored with Allen since he's only been there as an announcer/spectator. Or maybe, just maybe, he really feels that way. It doesn't diminish Cameron one bit. The man is entitled to his opinion or his charade, whichever it might be. It also doesn't diminish his views of Coach K, Duke, the Duke program or Cameron, all of which he obviously and absolutely loves if you've watched his videos in the off season when he comes back to Duke and talks to the team.

You know, it is possible for Allen Fieldhouse and Cameron Indoor to both be great venues.

I don't understand why people go apoplectic when Bilas makes a positive statement about a non-Duke person/place/thing. Rather... zealotous if you ask me.

I was actually thinking while watching last night's game that I have relatively little emotion in regards to Kansas. I think they are one of the only legacy basketball schools I don't either like (Arizona, Michigan State) or despise (UCONN, UNC, Kentucky, and many many more).

Certainly we have some Kansas history (Manning game, 1991 title game) but no particular vitriol comes to mind.

[subzero02]

You know, it is possible for Allen Fieldhouse and Cameron Indoor to both be great venues.

I don't understand why people go apoplectic when Bilas makes a positive statement about a non-Duke person/place/thing. Rather... zealotous if you ask me.

I was actually thinking while watching last night's game that I have relatively little emotion in regards to Kansas. I think they are one of the only legacy basketball schools I don't either like (Arizona, Michigan State) or despise (UCONN, UNC, Kentucky, and many many more).

Certainly we have some Kansas history (Manning game, 1991 title game) but no particular vitriol comes to mind.

Don't forget the 2000 and 2003 ncaa tournament matchups...

[DBFAN]

I would imagine that mic placement is prob the biggest reason. Bigger gyms more open space, more room for sound to travel which makes it seem much louder than it really is

[aimo]

The biggest difference is technology. During timeouts, everyone is either absorbed in their smartphones or staring at the big screen waiting to get on camera. No spontaneous chants anymore. Even the band is getting boring - they must play the same fight song at least twelve times during the game. There used to be more variety in what they played. And don't even get me started on the Dancing Devils coming up into the stands during timeouts . . .

[OldPhiKap]

It is indisputable that the peak period of the Cameron Crazies was [insert years you went to Duke or to games]. The prior Crazies were certainly an important foundation to our work, but they never matched our level of creativity and they displayed overwhelming signs of crustiness when they returned. And don't get me going about the kids that followed, who were self-absorbed bookworms that were wholly derivative and lame.

[Dukeford]

I am watching the Kansas versus Kentucky game, and for the first time I can ever recall I am jealous of Allen Fieldhouse. They seem loud, they seem coordinated, and I'm even jealous of the color coordinated T-shirts.

I know that Duke is having a down year, but Cameron seems out of sorts. It's not loud, it's not coordinated, and it just feels like something is missing. It also feels like we're down to the same two or three chants.

Is it just me, or does anybody else notice this as well?

Maybe not...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQaZWL8uxtQ

[Mike Corey]

It is indisputable that the peak period of the Cameron Crazies was [insert years you went to Duke or to games]. The prior Crazies were certainly an important foundation to our work, but they never matched our level of creativity and they displayed overwhelming signs of crustiness when they returned. And don't get me going about the kids that followed, who were self-absorbed bookworms that were wholly derivative and lame.

http://replygif.net/i/633.gif

[77devil]

It is indisputable that the peak period of the Cameron Crazies was [insert years you went to Duke or to games]. The prior Crazies were certainly an important foundation to our work, but they never matched our level of creativity and they displayed overwhelming signs of crustiness when they returned. And don't get me going about the kids that followed, who were self-absorbed bookworms that were wholly derivative and lame.

No doubt, particularly since most here came after me.

[Olympic Fan]

It would be interesting to measure the rise -- and fall? -- of the Cameron Crazies

Duke's home crowd was nothing special in the 40s and 50s -- Early in the 1956-57 season, Duke upset No. 7 Kentucky with an incredible comeback, but after the game, Adolph Rupp taunted the crowd because it wasn't a sellout .... later that season, No. 1 UNC came in without starting center Joe Quigg and Duke didn't have much of a homecourt edge in the loss to the Tar Heels.

Vic Bubas, who learned his showmanship from Everett Case, was the guy who first ignited the crowd in Cameron (well, it was Duke Indoor Stadium in those days) with some showmanship aspects (he installed the Pep Band, spotlight intros and the like). Duke's crowd got a lot of great press in his heyday. I remember one account after a game with Michigan that described the noise of the crowd as sounding like a jet engine.

But as Duke basketball declined at the end of the decade, the crowd's reputation declined too. There were still some great stunts -- the taunting of Norm Sloan was classic and some of the anti-Lefty stuff was sublime. But as a whole, the crowd got less and less clever and more and more vulgar (just personal, but my father, a founding Iron Duke member and a season ticket holder since the late '50s, got so disgusted by the obscene stuff that he cancelled his tickets in the mid-1970s).

Gene Banks woke up the crowd again ... I know it was the Mike Gminski-Jim Spanarkel-Gene Banks team, but it was Banks who filled Cameron again (Duke sold out season tickets for 1977-78 within hours of his announcement that he was coming). The crowd got good again ... then got great as Coach K's team first took off in the mid-1980s. That was when ESPN started to come to town with regularity. At the same time, UNC moved from Carmichael (which was great) into the Nose Dome, where the blue-hairs surrounded the court. That made Duke look even better in contrast.

The legend of the Cameron Crazies was born in February of 1986, when Duke played four straight weekend nationally televised games on three different networks. The crowd was great, Duke won all four home games and ESPN and Sports Illustrated starting calling Cameron the best collegiate venue in the country.

I think it has fluctuated over the years. Certainly there are always ups -- every UNC game is great. But sustained excellence? That's gradually declined since the mid to late 1990s. Student turnout got so sporadic that Duke starting taking seats away from the Crazies and giving them to guests or to paying fans. Today, the Crazies only surround 3/4s of the court -- the majority of the scorer's table side belongs to non-students (except the very ends). For years, Crazies surrounded the court (with just a small arena for guests behind each team bench -- the proximity of the BOG contingent just two rows behind the visitors led to some great moments).

The Crazies can still be Crazy -- the last two UNC games were as good as any games I've seen. And the 2014 Syracuse game was awesome. But night in and night out, I don't think the crowd is as consistent or as clever as it used to be.

That's just my opinion (and it comes from a man whose student days in the late 1960s and early 1970s were the nadir of the Cameron Crazies).

[COYS]

I think it has fluctuated over the years. Certainly there are always ups -- every UNC game is great. But sustained excellence? That's gradually declined since the mid to late 1990s. Student turnout got so sporadic that Duke starting taking seats away from the Crazies and giving them to guests or to paying fans. Today, the Crazies only surround 3/4s of the court -- the majority of the scorer's table side belongs to non-students (except the very ends). For years, Crazies surrounded the court (with just a small arena for guests behind each team bench -- the proximity of the BOG contingent just two rows behind the visitors led to some great moments).

The Crazies can still be Crazy -- the last two UNC games were as good as any games I've seen. And the 2014 Syracuse game was awesome. But night in and night out, I don't think the crowd is as consistent or as clever as it used to be.

That's just my opinion (and it comes from a man whose student days in the late 1960s and early 1970s were the nadir of the Cameron Crazies).

I think this is probably accurate. I also don't even think it's a bad thing, necessarily. Unlike with college football where there are only a few home games per season, there are a LOT of home Duke basketball games, many of which are on weeknights/during school breaks/against unheralded opponents/some combination of these. The perhaps slight drop in consistent student attendance is possibly due in part to the student body of undergrads becoming more representative of a wider-swath of society. I would venture to guess that if we polled Duke undergrads now and rated their enthusiasm for Duke basketball (say they could choose between A) Obsessed, B) Big Fan, Fan, C) Casual Fan, D) Big Game Fan, and E) Don't Really follow all that much) compared to 15 years ago, you would get a higher percentage of students who select C, D, or E. Fans who fall into these categories simply aren't going to come out for a November game against a weak opponent or a mid-week, mid-winter late game against an ACC bottom feeder (also, there are more ACC games now than there used to be). And if they do come out, they might not possess the same energy. I think it's ok if not every single Duke student lives and breathes Duke Basketball. Regardless, I still think Cameron is the best place in the country for a game and I think the Crazies can be every bit as crazy as in years past. But there will be a few games each year when the Crazies are merely really good rather than fantastic.

The real test will be when K retires (forgive me if this becomes a thread listing his possible replacements). The sustained excellence of Duke basketball for the past 30+ years has made it pretty dang fun and easy to be a fan. In the almost guaranteed scenario that Duke cannot find a coach who will have as much success as Coach K, it will be interesting to see if anything significant changes with the atmosphere of Cameron. I'm hopeful that as long as K's replacement is very good and has Duke in the running for ACC Titles and potential Final Four runs in most seasons, we won't see much of a change.

[UrinalCake]

I know that everybody says this, but Cameron really was so much better 20 years ago when I was an undergrad. I've been to several games over the past two seasons and there is no creativity, no spontaneous chants, nothing. The crazies will cheer when something good happens, but when the team is down and needs a lift there's no energy. I can't count the number of times I've seen Crazy Towel Guy get out of his seat trying to exhort the crowd, only to have the students start one of their same scripted chants. Of course, at the designated time to do the "Crazy Towel Guy" chant, everyone gets excited about that. Basically once you've been to one game in Cameron, you've pretty much seen everything and the next game you go to will feel exactly the same from a crowd perspective.

The video screen, fan cam, and personal cell phones of course have a lot to do with it, but mostly fans have just gotten lazy.

[weezie]

Was just noticing the daffodil bulbs peeking up through the snow patches so, natch, it's that time of year to lament about the occasional lack of enthusiasm in Cameron.

Like UCake pointed out, everybody says it from time to time. I've only noticed how the powers-that-be overly rely on some songs that are not timed well. "Every Time We Touch" has got to be held till 2nd half and only played late. "Shots" in first half, same thing.

The pep band has learned some new songs this year and that's a very refreshing and long overdue development.

Halftime is extremely lame. The grocery store basket shooting is so, so tired. Bring back the jump rope team or, hell, even the old cloggers were so much better at keeping the crowd amped. At the miami game, the ball was presented by a veteran UPS driver who had served 32 years without an accident and he got one of the largest ovations of the day! He deserved it!

I have no idea how to encourage the youngsters to snaz up the cheers, but I do think that if we were a stronger team, none of us would be commenting on this topic.

[akg4y]

As an outside observer (UVA fan), I have to agree, I think the chants and creativity are not up to par this year (and perhaps the last year or two).
There were times over the past 10-15 years where I felt like my room was shaking because of what I was watching on TV when Duke was in a close or big game.

There used to be times where you could almost feel how stressful they were making it for opposing players, so loud and obnoxious that there was no way the other team could think straight and the players were just HOPING they didnt screw up to make the crowd louder.

[rsvman]

In MY day, we.....oh, wait.....I never attended Duke.


Never mind.